We're All Insane - I Killed My R*pist

Episode Date: March 15, 2026

#foryou #podcast #ad Feel like your best self again. Visit https://forhers.com/insane to get a personalized, affordable plan that gets you. -We're All Insane Plus for Bonus Episodes, Ad-Free Listening, Access to New Show, Guided Mediations: https://wereallinsane.com - Join We’re All Insane Mailing List for EXCLUSIVE Content + Discounts: https://mailchi.mp/6d0e5d7a3998/were-all-insane Clark, a New Jersey man who was sentenced after confessing to killing the man who abused him as a child, breaks down the history between himself and Dennis Pegg, the allegations that went ignored for years, and the moment that led Fredericks to take matters into his own hands. It’s a heavy story about trauma, justice, and what happens when accusations are never fully addressed. Clark's Links: Clark's Book: https://a.co/d/01E2Q4Jl IG: https://www.instagram.com/clarkfredericks/ Podcast: https://www.freelike-me.com/podcast If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all-new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was Slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Dev, so my girlfriend Lisa and I drove down from Westchester, New York. Amazing. To see you. And we had a great dinner.

We got some Maryland crab cakes. Love it. Yeah, it was awesome. Gluten free? Gluten free ones, yes, indeed. And now I'm ready to share my story with your audience. I wrote a book as I sat in prison. And three and a half years ago, I got a book deal from Simon & Schuster, one of the major publishing houses.

And the book came out. out the first print. We're flying through the second print. So just a cheesy plug here. I love it. And the only reason I want to show the book is not for a cheesy plug, everybody. But I didn't know, like, when you have a successful book, copycats pop up on Amazon overnight. Like at one time, there was eight different copycats using my name, Clark Frederick's, my title, scarred, and like just a different, like, AI generated book cover. It's bizarre. And I like someone notified me like have you seen what's going on on Amazon? I'm like what? And they

told me like there's all these books with your name on it. And I'm like I went into a freak out. Like I called the editor or Simon Schuster and I'm like, oh, this is happening all the time. They're like Amazon's not doing anything to take them down. So like I spent hours like trying to get a hold of somebody at Amazon and and just nothing. Like it's a dead end. And so I had one person from another country, like send me a screenshot of a page of the book. And they're like, oh, this was, you know, so much a great page. And I'm like, oh, my God, that's not my book. I'm like, you bought the copycat one.

That's crazy. Oh, no, it's so bummed out. Yeah, it's annoying. So that's why I'm showing it, everybody. Not for cheesy plugs. Just relax, everybody. But just so you get the right one, if you want to get the book, it's the one with the bike on the side. And I'll link the correct one too.

Yep. So nobody will be making a mistake. Oh, man. It's so disappointing. It is. You pour your heart and soul into to create something that will change lives and then just people steal it. Yep. So the book is like phenomenal.

It's got a 4.9 rating on Amazon and a 4.7 on Goodreads. There's no other memoir like that highly rated. So hopefully people will get it and they'll be inspired. That's incredible. By the end of this story, hopefully they'll be inspired. Absolutely. So tell us where your story begins. Yeah.

So, I mean, I've been broken so many times in my life, like utterly broken, sexually abused as a young boy by my Boy Scout leader. My next door neighbor who was like a brother to me committing suicide early in my life. Losing the love of my life in my college years because I carried such pain and trauma, just broke me losing her. Drugs, alcohol abuse, gambling abuse, involvements with the FBI, Homeland Security, IRS, PTSD, depression, getting arrested for first-degree murder and going to prison,

just completely all throughout my life broken. But I'm here in front of you to tell everybody that broken doesn't mean finished. Doesn't mean you're done. Doesn't mean you're defeated. And so many of those things could have finished me off, yet I just held on to a little glimmer of hope. And that hope carried me through all those tough times. And now I'm able to share my story and inspire us.

others, you know, like if you suffered abuse, you can overcome it. If you're addicted to drugs and alcohol, you can overcome it. If you've been to prison, you can overcome it. If you lose the love of your life, you might even get her back. So, uh, you had a bigger purpose. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So that's what I want, that's why I want to share my story. Amazing. So I grew up in a little town in New Jersey called Stillwater, New Jersey. And it's, it's just like it sounds, you know, there's fishing and hunting and snowmobile riding and we've got a ski resort mountain creek ski resort in our county and everything is outdoor related and um you know you think abuse happens in urban areas highly populated areas and people let their guard down in our little area of stillwater and especially i grew up

I'm a little older than you, so I grew up in the 70s and 80s. And back then, there was no helicopter mothers. You know, there was no cell phones. There was no computers. Your parents wanted you out of the house. They wanted you playing. They wanted you coming home dirty. You were supposed to be home at dinner time.

And as soon as you could learn to ride a bicycle, you know, like be gone. And we lived at a lake community. So like we had the lake, we had a dam and it went into the river. There was basketball courts, tennis courts, softball field, jungle gym, just everything down there. So everybody congregated down at the lake and especially at the dam area. And my, I had an older brother, six years older than me. And my next door neighbor, Jeff, who was six years older than me, he and my brother were joined at the hip. Jeff was like an older brother to me.

And they got involved in the scouts, boy scouts, since they were older than me. At six years old, I had open heart surgery. I was born with a hole in my heart. The doctors monitored me till I was six years old, and they said we have a six-month window to operate. So I got this life or death surgery back in 1971. And less than three, four months after that surgery, my brother's boy scout leader, who was also a lieutenant in the sheriff's department, always had a gun, always had his badge, big hulking guy, but someone who I loved. Like, I was a little guy and he was this towering presence of authority and safety. So I thought, next to my father, that's

That's who I looked up to. And he came to our house on a summer day. And everybody, we had a big backyard. We had a screened-in porch. We had a bar. And I came in to get a drink and watch cartoons for a minute. And the den was right next to their front door. And boom, boom.

And it's the loud, towering voice of Dennis Pegg, the sheriff slash boy scout leader. I bound it up out of my chair. I let them in. He tussled my hair. And he said, where is everybody, little buddy? And I said, they're all out back. And he said, let's sit down for a minute in the den. Now, my parents were so proud of me for surviving his open heart surgery that they used to

have me lift my shirt up and collect a quarter from all their friends. And he had been one of the people I collected a quarter from. So he's like, let me. give you a quarter to see your scar. I was like, okay, then, you know, lift my shirt up. And he's like, I have cheloid condition, so my scar's raised up. And he's like, how about I give you a dollar if you let me touch your scar? I was like, sure. And so this went on for a minute where he's rubbing his fingers up and down my scar. And then he goes, like, below my scar to like my pant line, pushing my abdomen. Is your stomach sore from the surgery? I'm like, no, not at all. So he's

pushing and touching. He's like, okay, he's like, here's your dollar. He's like, now this has to be our little secret. Like, we can't be army buddies if you tell anybody that I touched your scar. That has to just be between you and I. I was like, all right, then. Like, not understanding why he wanted me to keep a secret, but I'm like, all right. So what he's done already is predators have to initiate touch at some point. And just the tussling of the hair, I see, I see people tussle somebody's hair and it just like sends a shiver up my spine because to the average person, it's harmless. To a predator, it's their way of initiating touch.

And then now he's taken it a step further by touching my open heart surgery scar. And I think too, it creates some sort of like, this is safe. You know, it doesn't go from zero to 100. it's like it's it takes time to kind of it's a bond between us too like you know yeah and i trusted him exactly why would i not trust him right if you can't trust the lieutenant in the sheriff's department who's a boy scout leader who's in every organization under the sun he's the chaplain right at the uh vfW post uh you know if you can't trust that who who can't trust that who who can't can you trust? So I trusted him. So he's initiated touch and he's brought in secrecy.

Secrets are a predator's lifeline. Like they have to have secrets. If I told right away, he stopped in his tracks. They thrive on secrets and they thrive on threats and they thrive on that connection, that bond between you. So he's already got me in the snare at six years old. And predators are methodical and they're patient. You know, it's not like I'm walking to the school bus stop and some homeless guy grabs me, pulls me around a tree and does something to me. Then I'd go run and screaming bloody murder to my parents.

but it's somebody who I trusted and loved and respected. And that's where they get you. Like 95% is people that you know. So he's already got me going. And from there, everything was done out of the watchful eye of my parents. Like it wasn't at the house, you know. It was down at the lake. That was his trolling grounds for us young boys.

because we all congregated down there. At 9 o'clock, 9 o'clock, at 9 years old, he's inviting me into his pickup truck to have a beer down at the lake. And then at the end, you can't let anybody know I gave you a beer. I'm a lieutenant in the police department. I could get in a lot of trouble. And in my mind, I'm like, why would I want to ruin having a beer with the lieutenant? Like, this is great that he trusts me to have a beer with him.

you know he shows me pornography which back then was Polaroid pictures he told me his friend had bought an old farmhouse and there was a desk left behind in it and he opened up one of the drawers and it was filled with porno pictures hop in my truck i'll show you some i'm thinking you know it's going to be like a playboy magazine or something and he just starts showing me close-ups of penises on these polaroids and he's laughing like a little kid aren't these funny aren't these a riot and i'm like yeah so and i say to him like where's all the women he's like all those must have been in the other drawer i'll grab those next time i'm over at my buddy's house there was never any other pictures he tells me back then on the back cover of every magazine was the marlborough man he's a fictional character but he's quintessential cool

smoking a cigarette, cowboy hat. And he tells me, Dennis always went out west. Every year he took two, three trips out west. Jackson Hole, Grand Canyon, you name it, wherever out there. And he told me on one of these trips down at the lake, as we were fishing, that he met the Marlboro Man. And the Marlboro Man was the greatest guy in the world. And he shared something with me. He shared a secret with me.

I'll share it with you, but you got to keep it a secret. I'm like, what's that, then? He goes, the Marlboro man's gay. So, like, I don't know if the Marlboro man is gay or not, but he's like, I guess, trying to introduce and normalize male-on-male sex, maybe, or that behavior. Right. Plant the seed.

Yeah. Question about the photos. Do you think that those were photos he had taken? Yeah, absolutely. And who do you think they were? Just random men or boys? I fear at least two of those were my brother and my neighbor Jeff. Okay.

Yeah. Dennis, like, there's no telling how many kids he had in his pipeline at once. You know, this is just one little area. Right. He's going all over. He's in the Audubon Society. He's the guy in charge of the young cadets for New Jersey. If you, like, want to become a police officer, you become a young cadet.

He's the one who decides who gets the scholarships or not. He was a trail angel on the Appalachian Trail, and he would take weary hikers home for a hot shower and a good meal and a nice bed to stay in. And just like he was a member of Kiwanis Club in our area. Kwanis Club's mission is for the betterment of children in your community. And he's using that as a hunting ground.

He was an honorary member of Boys Town out in Nebraska. And if you Google Boys Town, it's just loaded with abuse. And if you look into him, every organization, the police said were his hunting grounds. So like, he's in all these organizations, but he's just hunting children in them. And then he would be on the historical society with all the little old ladies. You know, they got to have cover. And like, so they, everything is smoking mirrors with them. Nothing is as it seems.

So it progresses on to wrestling matches at 10 years old. I used to wrestle your brother and I used to wrestle Jeff. Let's see how strong you are. And this is the first time I noticed that when he would. wrestle. He would let me have the upper hand in the beginning. And then it was like a switch went off in him. And his eyes would dilate and get dark and his whole face would change. And he would get aggressive and he would throw me to the ground and get on top of me and start gyrating on top of me and telling me squirm. Try to get out. Try to get out. Try to get out. Try hard.

harder, yelling at me, try harder. And he would be erect why he's doing this. I don't know how many wrestling matches we have. I don't know. It then progressed to him performing oral sex on me. And then it progressed at age 12. He had this big, drawn-out, elaborate scheme that he needed my help with. And it led to us being at his house.

And it led to shots of Blackberry. brandy and beers and him raping me. And I cried, I screamed. And this lieutenant of the police, this member of the historical society, this Boy Scout leader, this Kiwanis club member, this chaplain whispered in my ear as I'm crying and screaming just another minute so he could finish. and what happened after that rape to me was worse than the rape. He had a coon dog, and coon dogs have a long, drawn out bark.

And his dog was barking hearing my cries and screams, and it wouldn't stop. And after he cleaned me up afterwards, he sat me down at his kitchen table. He brought his dog in by the collar right next to me. And he said, I want to show you what will happen to you if you ever open up your mouth about what just occurred. And he started beating his dog and beating his dog and beating his dog. And I'm crying and I'm screaming and I'm pleading. Please, Dennis. Stop, stop, stop, stop.

And he just kept beating and beating and beating. And the dog was at my feet in a clump. And to me, that was worse than the rape because I felt responsible because, of my cries and screams. And Duke only started howling because of my cries and screams. I can't believe that Dennis had this premeditated. Like, I know Duke's going to how uncontrollably because Clark's going to cry and scream.

So then I'm going to beat my dog to death in front of him. But that's just to show you these monsters. They can hide in society and do great things so that nobody in the world will believe they are capable of, and people will defend them to the death. And people defended Dennis to the death. And my life is now forever altered. I got scars internally for the rest of my life.

Dennis, I had my bike in the back of his pickup truck. He drove me back down to the dam area. Pulled me again. This is our secret. Keep your mouth shut. I didn't want to see any kids at the dam area. So I ran across the ball field with my bike, threw it in the weeds where it was hidden. And I ran down the river and I just hugged myself and rocked myself along the river, letting the sound of the river try to calm me down and

soothe me and like wash me clean. And my mind, which thought it was helping me out, really did me a disservice, but my mind said, we are never going to talk about this. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder? Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal,

the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. talking about this will be reliving it and we are never going to relive what just happened. And at 12 years old, I thought I could put this in a nice little box, stick it inside and go about my life and all would be well. I'm here to tell your audience all will not be well. You might be able to buy yourself some time, decades, but that box is going to break open at some point. and all that trauma and pain and shame is going to come out and it's going to derail your life.

So you might as well address it ASAP. Those who have been abused and keep it a secret, which is nine out of ten people, either self-destruct or die. A lot of people commit suicide. I don't know anybody who immediately is sexually abused. and goes on to have a beautiful, you know, pristine life. Yeah. It just doesn't go hand in hand.

I mean, your innocence is completely stripped from you. Stripped, taken. Yeah. Like, I can't remember, you know, and I didn't live with my abuser like a lot of people do, you know. I could go six months without seeing Dennis. I could go three months. I could go a month. But I am forever changed.

and almost immediately after the rape, I start smoking weed. Like I have zero coping skills. And like, you know, it's easy when you become an adult or an adult hears this story and knows, you know, the trolls on the internet. They know exactly how they would handle that as a kid if that happened to them. And they would go running to their parents immediately or towards, Back in the 70, there was no social workers. There was no agencies for treating childhood abuse.

The only ones you went to were the cops. And he was law enforcement. He was a lieutenant. So I bury this down. I try to bury it down. It's like I got all these thoughts and images flooding my mind. So I start smoking weed just to try to like cloud my thought process. My father sits me down, maybe a year.

a year after the rape, 13, and says, I can't believe what I'm hearing about Dennis Pegg. He's like, he was taking, he worked, he was a lieutenant in the sheriff's department, and he worked at the county jail. Sheriff's officers either worked at jail or they're working out on the street doing, you know, criminal stuff.

He worked at the jail. And my friend, father goes, it's spreading all around still where that Dennis has been taking home young inmates from the jail to mentor them. And he's raping them and molesting them when he gets them home. Like these kids, you know, like 18, 19, 20, drug addicts usually, he would say, come back to my house. Let me, let me mentor you and take care of you. And he would get them there. And in the middle of the night, he would pounce on them. And some didn't fight off the pouncing.

Others ran out of his house. And in the middle of the night are hitching through our little one-horse town of Stillwater. And the residents are picking these kids up. And they're like, this guy just attacked me in the middle of the night. Like he told me he would give me a place to get my feet back under me. And in the middle of night, he attacked me. And that spread around like wildfire. And this was about a year after the raid?

Yeah. And did you not see him in that year afterwards? What had happened is he raped me in between, back then they built a new high school. And they took seventh and eighth grade from the elementary school and put it in the high school. So this was between sixth and seventh grade that summer. That winter, for Christmas, I got a dirt park. So I hooked up with older kids around the lake who had dirt bikes and started riding dirt bikes and never went back down to the dam area where he concentrated on. So I'm smoking weed and riding dirt bikes with these kids.

And I'm avoiding him as much as I can. Was there any interaction between he and I after that? I'm sure there had to be because he would come by our house. But I can't remember it. It's like I, from that rape on until something coming up, I black it out. So I tell my dad, no, he never touched me. I just didn't want to, I just didn't want to open up that box yet. And my parents viewed me as the golden child for surviving that heart surgery.

And I didn't want to become the broken, wounded child now. I wanted to stay as the golden child. And, you know, like, there's so much shame, especially in male-on-male. You know, like, did he have to beat his dog to death in front of me to, like, keep me quiet? I probably would have kept quiet just from the shame. And it takes, you know, and the longer you hold that shame in, it just, like, manifests. It just grows into a monster. My father found rolling papers, a pipe, and weed in my room.

And Lisa's corrected me on how I phrased this. See, I'm thinking, right? Because I always said my father missed a golden opportunity to open up a dialogue with me. Instead, he took the hardline approach of threatening to send me to military school if he ever found this on me again. And I tell people, like, you've got to open up dialogue with your kids. You know, like, no matter what they're doing, they're getting in trouble, they're using drugs, there's a reason why.

It doesn't necessarily have to be there. We're raped by their Boy Scout leader, but it can be maybe bullying at school or just not feeling comfortable in their body as it changes at puberty, whatever it may be. You know, just open up dialogue. My father tried to open up dialogue, which Lisa reminded me of, and I refused to talk about it. So, like, that's why, like, I speak out just to, like, get people to talk.

Like, you can't heal from something you can't talk about. Yeah. How can you heal from you? If you can't address it. I think, too, the difficult part is, is at that age you were at, you didn't really have the understanding, the vocabulary, like anything of what happened. I think at that age, to protect yourself, it seemed easier to some degree to just hold it in and shut it out.

You know, because I think, like you said, bringing that, opening up that can of worms, it doesn't just stop there. You don't just tell your dad what happened and then that's it. It's like everything that comes after that. And it's like, is he going to believe me? is he not is you know what's the next step it's a whole it's a whole thing and i think that in itself is scary and shameful and then you might think in your head well i don't want the whole world to know this you know so it's all of these different things that i think come into play of why

people don't want to speak up right and my mother worked at the new high school and like so i'm going in there with a smile cranked on all my teachers because she works there love me class My classmates loved me. You know, I put this outgoing, you have two faces. You know, one you show the world and the one behind closed doors. You know, so the one I showed the world was confident and fun loving and go, go, go, and smiling. And the one behind closed doors was completely broken. As I go into high school, getting alcohol became easier.

So I started drinking a lot in high school. My father around age 15 sits me down again. And there was a lady from our town of Stilwater who worked at the local Dunkin' Donuts as a waitress. And my father went in for a coffee. And she had a son in my class, same age. And she told my father how her son was raped by Dennis Pegg and that they were pressing charges. And my father came home again and said, son, sit down. And he said, I want to ask you something.

I just want you to know that you'll never have to go to the police. You'll never have to testify in court. I will take care of the problem myself. You just tell me if Dennis Pegg ever touched you. And he told me the story about this lady's son being raped by him. And they were going to press charges. He's like, just tell me. And I'll take care of Dennis Pegg myself.

So by saying I'll take care of Dennis Pegg myself. I'm taking that as my father will kill Dennis. Right. So now all this pressure is on me, like, what if it goes wrong? And also it goes back to the dog, I feel like. You know, it just puts, it's back in this just violent, it's scary. Yeah. So I'm like, and I, like, trust me, I debated this for a long time after my father sent me down.

But I'm like, I don't want to be responsible for my father going doing life in prison. Right. or my father getting killed as he tries to avenge me. That was like too much for my little brain to handle and for my emotions to handle. And so I just told him, no, he never touched me. Again, my mind's trying to protect me, but it's prolonging the inevitable of a collapse. You know, like, just get it out. People, get it out.

You got to get it out. So that was around 15. At 17, my next door neighbor, Jeff, who I idolized, who I thought he and my brother were abused by Dennis as well from what he told me. He would tell me, your brother and Jeff would get so drunk when they would come over, I'd have to take their clothes off and put them to bed. Like, why do you have to take somebody's clothes off to put them to bed? I'm thinking in my head, but I'm like, all right. Right. And then the wrestling matches.

At 17, Jeff puts a shotgun in his mouth and kills himself. And my brother and I run over there. His sister came screaming over to our house. We go over there and see Jeff, find Jeff. And I always thought from that point on, is this what is awaiting me? Is this what my outcome is going to be? I'm going to get to the point of despair that Jeff. got and I'm going to do that. So that was 17. And you know who showed up to take a family member to

the morgue to identify the body? Dennis. Dennis Peck insisted insisted on being the one to drive a family member to the morgue and go in with them. Almost like a serial killer like proud of what they've done, you know. would it surprise me in the least like if a bunch of bodies attributed to Dennis like showed up? No, not at all. But his body showed up in suicides. And police attribute like a minimum of five suicides to him. I go through the rest of high school, uninterested in sports, uninterested in studies.

I was a really smart kid, and I could get away with doing like the bare minimum and get B's and C's. And that was fine by me. I got caught coming to school drunk. I got caught on class trips to the Jersey Shore drinking. I got pulled into the principal's office and threatened that I wouldn't graduate with the class if the principal. at the prom had even one iota of thinking that i was drinking a month after graduating i get a drunk driving i got into northeastern university up in boston which you know back then it wasn't as tough to get in you know i didn't have straight a's you need straight a's now to get into

northeastern but that's where i went to school and it was in the 80s and And I tried cocaine for the first time. Absolutely. Instant love affair. Like, because it took away. I'm filled with shame. I'm filled with insecurities. Just self-loathing, self-hatred.

And doing a line of Coke, it made you outgoing and confident and strong and personable. And I met, I was sitting in the student L Center studying one day. at a four-person table, four chairs by myself, notebook spread out, book spread out. And this cute, bubbly girl plops down in the chair across me, throws her legs up over the armrest and just goes into this torrent of words. And I'm just sitting there, like, you know, mesmerized by her. like, who is this?

Like, intrigued and mesmerized. And she captured my heart in that moment. And for the next five, six years, we dated often on. Northeastern had a co-op program where, you know, you work in, you go to school for six months. You work for six months in a job related to your major. So sometimes you're working in Boston. other times you're working outside of Boston. We would lose track of each other.

There's no cell phone. Somehow we would always find our way back to each other. And one thing she used to say back then is that I, you know, soldiers come back from war and they got this thousand mile stare. And I had that stare. And like we would be lying in bed and I would just stare off. And she'd be like, hello, hello. like doing this and then she'd like hit me I'd be like what she's like you just left me right

then where'd you go I'm like I don't know what you're talking about she's like you are somewhere else in your mind where were you and like you know I can't I can't tell her you know again like she thinks I'm hot I'm sexy I'm funny I'm cute I'm a party animal I don't want to be the broken wounded duck boyfriend who was abused That's what my mind told me. Instead of confronting this and her thinking how brave I am and strong I am for confronting it, that's what really happens when you confront it. Instead, your mind tells you people are going to think you're gay,

people are going to look at you as damaged goods, as broken. That's the complete opposite how people look at it. After we graduated, I was working in Pennsylvania, living in New Jersey. She was living in New York. I would go in, you know, like for a romantic weekend and disappear for months, disappear for weeks, show back up, have sex again, go out drinking, party, and have a great weekend, disappear again. And I did that for like a year. And then she's like, what are we doing here, bro?

I thought we both wanted the same things. Like, I'm ready to settle down with you. Let's get our careers going. Let's start families. let's get it going. I was like, I can't do that. I'm like, I'm sorry. And she took it as I didn't love her. But what it really was was like when you're harboring secrets and shame and pain, I could have sex. I could tell her I loved her, but I couldn't be intimate. It's a new year, and if we're being honest, a lot of us don't feel like ourselves anymore. Stress, trauma,

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It's about steady, realistic progress without the yo-yoing. Feel like your best self again. Visit forehors.com slash insane to get a personalized affordable plan that gets you. That's f-r-h-h-r-s dot com slash insane. For-hers.com slash insane. Weight loss by hers is not available everywhere. Compounded drug products are not approved or evaluated for safety, effectiveness, or quality by the FDA.

Prescription is required. See website for full details, important safety information, and restrictions. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. You can subscribe now to We're All Insane Plus for only $5.99 a month. And it includes ad-free listening, bonus episodes of We're All Insane, guided meditations, exclusive access to my brand new show, We're All Healing, and first access to new merch drops and discounts on merch. And you've got to be intimate. To be intimate, you have to be open. And I couldn't be vulnerable through intimacy. I just couldn't do it. And we split up.

And I hated myself for that. Like, I felt she was the perfect fit. And yet, Dennis Pegg has prevented me from being intimate with someone. And my life is only going to go off the skids from that point forward. My 20s after that, after that breakup, just became a nonstop pursuit of one-night's dance, of endless sex, meaningless sex, proving to myself that I was a man, that I was a straight, strong guy who could get any woman he wanted. I just, I hurt so many people in my 20s, you know, the longest I would be with someone, you know, like three months would be like the longest, you know, like, and, you know, in the beginning, it was attractive, intriguing to be with this party animal. But then after, you know, the three month part is when they like,

want to start real, like, is this all we're going to do? And I'd be like, see you. I'm out of here. You know, like, and it just, I went into my 30s, like a shell. Like, it just left me. empty. But I didn't know how to cope with what I was feeling. And it's not like, it's not like every moment I'm thinking of Dennis Pegg. I'm thinking of the abuse. I'm not. But what I'm thinking is, or what I'm feeling is just anxiety. I'm feeling off. I'm feeling depressed. I like I did with women I did with careers with jobs like I would just cut and run like I went from job to job to job to job to job because relationships long term or careers long term would make me feel trapped and trapped is how I felt with Dennis Pegg and internally my mind my subconscious is saying we're not going to ever. were field trapped again. Yeah.

And I would run. And that was a pattern early on in my life. And I would look for a new coping mechanism in my 30s, and I would find that in gambling. And I will walk through the doors of a casino, and Dennis Pegg would get stuck at a door. Like he couldn't barge his way in, the cocktail waitresses, with their skippy outfits, the sound. the yelling, the hooting, the hollering, the drinking. And I went on an incredible four or five year run in the casinos that was just insane. Like, one hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And winning that money did absolutely zero for me. Like, it was, money was just a tool for me to get more decadent. Yeah. And, you know, when you got pain and shame, you look for a quick fix. I always chased a quick fix to get rid of feeling anxious, feeling anxiety, feeling depressed. And gambling was great at doing that. I had a briefcase at home with hundreds of thousands of dollars in chips and cash. And someone told me, you know,

there's a $10,000 rule for depositing into your bank account. As long as you go under that, they don't notify the IRS. I'm like, oh, cool. So dummy me just starts putting like $9,400, $9,700, $9,800, $9,800, $9,000, $9,500, $9,500, $9,000, $9,000, $8,000. And that raises all the red flags for trying to skirt the law. Yeah. And the criminal division of the IRS came right to my house. And the guy left a card in my mailbox and said,

Mr. Frederick would call me immediately. And they were going to charge me with money laundering. And I had to do this full audit and like just show every penny where it came from and how it came from. And that was tough. But it's only going to get tougher. Gambling is like any other vice. You need more and more and more of it.

And I couldn't wait for the weekends. You know, like I'm feeling anxious and unease Monday through Friday. You know, like, what am I going to, what am I going to do Monday through Friday? And a local bar by us got hooked up with their liquor salesmen who did sports betting with the mob. and so me and a bunch of other guys start sports betting with the mob now the owner of the bar heard all my stories like i would take people from our town down gambling with me and they'd be like oh my they'd go back and tell everybody oh my god clark won 75 000 Clark won 80 000 clark lost 50,000 like he's insane you know um so he told the liquor salesman this and he

They set it up where I had a no-bet limit. I could go as high as I wanted. And in six months, I'm bankrupt. And I had a losing week where I lost like $21,000. And I was like already broke. And I called up the number to the mob gambling room. And I said, hey, man, I got to move some money around. Can you let this 21 carry over to next week?

And he's like, for you, anything, man. So now in my mind, I've got to make up the 21,000. I'm down. Plus, I want money to continue to gamble. So I just got crazy with bets and bet big and bet parlays and some I hit, but most I lost. And at the end of the week, I'm 77,000 in debt now to the mob. And all I can tell your audience is you don't want to be.

$77,000 in debt to the mom. Definitely not. It was like, and you read all about it in the book. And those were like the worst years. That was the worst time of my life. You could be like getting raped wasn't the worst. This was like daily threats. And I lived, I had to live so hypervigilant.

I've got a loaded shotgun in my truck. I got a baseball bat at work in my office. I got a survey everyone, everywhere at all times. It was insanity. You're constantly in fight or fight. Oh, my God. And it was so exhausting. I'm sure.

Yeah, it was just exhausting. And it went on for months with the threats. And then they got the numbers from my father and a number from my brother. And telling them, your son's a dead man if you don't pay what he owes us. your brother's a dead man if you don't pay what he owes us and I had to warn all of them I didn't know what to do so I called gamblers anonymous like I'm not a rat I'm not a snitch but like these guys started like with these phone calls like you know you're a dead man if you don't pay us and like I don't know what to do so I called one 800 gambler and I told the lady on the phone

the amount I owed and who I owed it to and She said, I'm going to have somebody call you back. She had the director for the whole state of New Jersey call me back. And that guy took me to a meeting a day later where there's a bunch of ex mobsters and guys who bet with the mob. It's a hardcore meeting. And they drafted up my response that I had to be a man, that I had to set up a payment plan, and that I wasn't going to go to the police and that I wasn't going to go to the police and that I wasn't going to walk away from this. And that's what I told them on it. They're like, they're going to scream.

They're going to say, no way. You're a dead man. But just stick to it, stick to your guns. And that's what I did. And the last phone call I got from them was not any pressure for, for money. It was, you're a dead man. Click. That was it. You're a dead man. Click. A couple months later, I get a call from someone who says they're an FBI agent. This is special agent, blah, blah, blah. And the guy's like, I need to talk to you. I can't do it over the phone.

I'm going to come to your, my brother and I had tire automotive centers. He had one, I had another. He's like, I'm going to be at your tire automotive center in New Jersey. And I'll be there Thursday at 3 o'clock. And I suggest you be there. Click.

And he hung up. And I was like, what the hell could this be about? Like, like, I, you know, I was riding with bikers and doing drugs. And I'm like, the FBI is going to get involved with me buying a gram of Coke. Like, really? Like, and I'm like, maybe they got the Coke guy under surveillance. But I'm like, like, I go, that should be local. Like, and I'm like, one of the, one of my biker buddies in trouble.

They're going to try to get me to like flip on them. Uh-huh. I like, the mob thing wasn't even coming into mine. Yeah. Because I had been a couple months. Like, I'm still like, I'm waiting. But for whatever reason, my mind didn't go there. The FBI guy shows it up.

He's clearly FBI. And he tells me they have a confidential informant inside one of the major crime families. He tells me which family. And the guy says, there's a hit put out on your life for a gambling debt. I was like, great. great and and he they wanted me to wear a wire and I'm like I'm not wear a wire I'm like absolutely not it was like the same thing the gamblers anonymous people said this you this is your problem and you're going to get yourself out of it and that's what I said to to the FBI guy and he's

like well it's very noble of you but shit's going to get real for you I'm like shit's already real bro I already know it so it just hell hell hellish in my life. I went through into my 40s and I didn't know like abuse survivors suffer from PTSD and something triggered like this great depression in me. And I equated to like a really like thick blanket that is soaking wet and it's over you and you just can't get out from under this thick wet blanket. And I would have to talk to myself like a baby to get up in the mornings. like I'm just lying in bed like with this thick heavy blanket over me. I'm like, come on, Clark, swing your legs off the bed.

Come on, you can do it. Come on. And my first leg would swing. And then I'd swing the second one. I'm going to be like, come on, Clark. Now push yourself up. You know, push up. You can stand up.

And I'd push up off the mattress. All right. Now walk to the bathroom. Come on. You can do it. And I walk to the bathroom. And that's how like every day was starting. And not knowing what to do and just feeling like crap instead of coffee in my travel mug to the shop, I started putting alcohol in it.

You know, either wine or champagne or vodka OJ. And that's how I'm starting my days. And then I'm so down at work, so depressed. My mind says, you know, that cocaine. that made us feel so great, you know, we could just do little bits of that throughout our day to give us energy and make us feel great again. And I'm like, yeah, I'm telling myself, yeah, that's a great idea. So I start doing, you know, just bumps of Coke throughout the day. And then I got to moderate myself so I don't get too jittery from the Coke, so I got to take Xanax.

And so that's how I start getting through my days. And then I tweaked my back and I went and saw a doctor and he prescribed me Vicodin. It's the first time I ever had a pain pill. And that was like an instant love affair as well. Like I felt like I was 17 again and could just work like a maniac. It worked right through the pain. And I went through these 30 pills he gave me like, you know, pretty quick and called them back up, told them how great they work. And he's like, you went through those way too fast.

I'll give you 10 more and that's it. And that just wasn't acceptable to me. So I became like a squirrel gathering nuts for the next few years, finding pain pills. And thus started a pain pill addiction. And I could have 500 pain pills in my drawer in my room and be in panic. Because like, again, just like the gambling picks up pace and the sleeping with women picked up pace. The pills pick up pace. So like taking three pills doesn't do a thing anymore, you know.

I'm taking, depending on what I have, if I have an oxy-cotton 80, or I have a yellow perk 10, I'm taking 12 to 24 pills a day. And like I said, I could be in a complete panic with 500 pills. And something from the abuse in having your boundaries stolen from you, boundaries were meaningless to me in my own life now. Like, you know, you can say like, I am comfortable living within these parameters of my life, and that's how I'm going to live.

I would say that too, but then I'd blow right through those parameters. And one thing I swore I would never, ever do is heroin. Like, that's skid roast stuff. And that's Kensington Avenue stuff. And that's New York City stuff. That's not suburbs of Stillwater, New Jersey stuff. And yet, when pain pills ran out and I went to somebody and they said, dude, like, stop thinking you're better than me because you're doing pharmaceutical heroin and I'm doing actual heroin. These are $5 a packet.

It's the same thing you're doing. stop fooling yourself and they're a lot cheaper. And I was like, you got a point. What's it matter? Like, what's it matter? And it's just like with the mob, I just got to the point like, whatever. Like, I didn't want to die, but I just didn't care.

And it's a scary point to be in life. It's just like, whatever. What's it matter? Like, if they kill me. I've already had to. worst done to me. You're going to kill me? All right. So bit. You're going to do heroin? Maybe die an overdose? So bit. And that's how that got started. And I'm in. Up by us, we have a chain of gas station delis called Quick Check. And I'm in a quick check getting a coffee after work one day.

and the door opens up as I'm making my coffee and in walks Dennis Pegg. Now, I have seen it's been 30 years. I'm 45 years old at this point. It's been 30 plus years since like the rape. But I've seen them around town. You know, like I came home from college one time and picked up my buddies and we went out to a bar

and there all of a sudden I got a hand on my shoulder. there. Hey, pal, how you doing? And I'm like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And, like, I chug my beer and I go to my friends like, we're out of here. They're like, we just got here. Like, I took two sips out of my beer. I'm like, look, I'm driving. You can either stay or you're going with me. But I don't want to be. Like, there's no women here. Like, we got to go where the women are. And they're like, all right, let me, let's go. So they chugged their beers and they follow me up. But it's been at least. But it's been at, least 10 years since I've seen him. And he sees me and he's instantly like, Clark, hey! I'm like,

oh my God. And I know he's going to come over and like hug me or shake my hand or something. And what was different this time from all the other times I had seen him is that he had a young boy about the age he raped me at by his side. And that young boy called him the same nickname he used to make me call him when I was that age. And I heard that nickname. And I heard that nickname. name and I saw that boy and it just ripped open that box I had put inside me 30 years ago. And I left all my stuff on the coffee counter and I ran out of there. He was like coming towards me and I ran out of there and my shoulder bump. He's like, where are you going? Where are you going? And I hopped in my truck and I sped out of that parking lot and I cursed and I punched my

steering wheel and I spit on my passenger seat. And my love. And my love. life fell apart that day. That was it. I could no longer, I equated getting out of bed in those mornings and going to work like climbing Mount Everest. Like every morning, Dev, you got to wake up and climb Mount Everest. After seeing him and seeing that boy, I couldn't climb Mount Everest anymore. And I got in an argument with my brother and I walked out and I never looked back on the entire business. And now I got free time, which is extremely bad. Never good, yeah. When you're not in a good state of mind.

I got Dennis Pegg in the forefront of my mind. I got that young boy in the forefront of my mind. I'm using drugs and alcohol. And the only thing I know to do is to just dive head first into drugs and alcohol. Instead of buying grams of coke, I'm buying ounces of Coke. I'm selling. I'm using. and this went on for a few months.

And I had a buddy who I lent money to and he was going to stain the cedar siding of the house. And it was the morning of June the 12th. And I'd been on like a three-day Coke bender. I passed out from enough Xanax and alcohol to get a couple hours of sleep. not that you're really sleeping and I woke up I went to the bathroom I poured a vodka drink I got back in bed and I put on the TV and on the news it was the start of the Jerry Sandusky molestation trial out of

Penn State he was one of the coaches he ran a boys camp and he'd been molesting boys for a decade plus and I just it looked like Dennis Pegg like and it just made me think that Dennis Pegg would never get held accountable. Like, I couldn't understand why he didn't get arrested when he was taking those boys home from the jail. I couldn't understand why he didn't get arrested when my classmate was going to file charges. Do you know if they ever did file charges? Yes. They did. Okay. And nothing came of it. I'll get to. Okay. What Dennis Pegg did, his mother worked the graveyard shift. he would go in there and sit at the counter nobody else in the Dunkin' Donuts and tell her he was going to either kill her or kill her son if they didn't pull the charges

and he would do this day after day after day and eventually they pulled the charges so months go by where I can't stop thinking about this young boy like is he getting his hair tussled is he sitting in Dennis's truck and Dennis is patting his knee and laughing? Is he moved to the padding of the knee up to the padding of the thigh? Is he showing him Polaroids? Is he giving him a beer? Is he doing wrestling matches? Has he raped them? That's all I could think about. And I went out that day after seeing Sandusky. I had to get out of my house. A friend had wanted to go to lunch. I was avoiding everybody at this stage. I was just doing drugs around the clock, content to kill myself with drugs and alcohol. I would have died of a drug

overdose and everybody would have been like, what the hell happened to Clark? He should have had life by the balls and yet he just flushed it all away for drugs and alcohol. Why? And I went out with my friend. I would tell him, I got to go make a phone call and go to my truck and do bumps of coke. And I stopped on the way home to meet my friend at this Italian restaurant that I frequented like constantly. And I had gotten burned on a business deal a little while earlier, years earlier. And the guy who burned me, I hadn't seen since the deal went sour. and he's in that restaurant that night having dinner with his family and I went up to him and I said Joe when are you going to make good on that money you owe me bro and he's like get the

fuck away from me I'm having dinner with my family how dare you come up to me and I'm like I had a respect for your family I'll walk away but this isn't over between us you're paying paying me bro. He's like, fuck you, get out of here. Like he was, he was a biker. He was in a biker gang. He thought he was real tough. He didn't, he didn't scare me in the least. So I go home to meet my friend who's dropping off all the equipment. He's going to start the next day, the power washing equipment. And, and I tell him this story of seeing this guy. He knew the story, you know, how I got burned. And I tell him about seeing this guy. And he's like, that's guy's got to be number one on your hit list.

And Deb, for the first time in almost 33 years, before I could stop my mouth from like speaking the words, I had no control over myself. I wasn't coherent enough and I wasn't mindful enough and I wasn't present enough. I said, actually, he's number two. the piece of shit who raped me as a kid is number one. And there it's out for the first time. And like time stopped. It stood still. And the air was thick between my friend and I.

And he's looking at me. He's like, are you for real? And I'm like, yeah, I'm for real. And he starts asking me who he is. Where does he live? I'm like, I assume he still lives. You know, the house was literally two miles away. It wasn't even a five-minute drive.

And I'm like, you know what? It's time to go confront this piece of garbage. I'm like, let's go, let's go see him. And it was less than 15 minutes from me uttering those words to us hopping in my buddy's van to go drive to his house. He's got a long driveway. We drive halfway up the driveway. We stop, get up, we run up the driveway. It's a June 12th. It's a warm summer day. His screen door is shut, but his front doors open and I look in and there he is sitting there watching TV and it was just like watching the devil in his lair sitting there and the devil isn't a guy with with you know horns coming out in a long tail and a pitchfork the devil is someone who sits on the historical society with the little old ladies and tells jokes and who volunteers for Kwanis Club and the Boy Scouts and the Appalachian Trail and puts on a big smile and everybody loves them. And he's raping little boys. That's the devil.

And that's who he was. And I felt like my body gets stiff, like freezing, like when he would touch me, I would freeze. And I felt that coming on me, this paralysis, and my heart's thumping, and my mind is just swirling, and the sweat is pouring out of my palms, and I'm palpitating. And before I just, like, crumble into a ball in his driveway, I march up to his front door, and I rip it open. And I had brought a knife with me. I brought, he was the firearms instructor for two counties.

Every law enforcement officer has to get reg. certified every year and they had to go to him to get recertified. This guy was a complete gun nut. This guy has been raping children for 45 years. This guy, this was basically a suicide mission I went on. This guy should have a gun holstered taped to his couch under each table on the bathroom wall in his bedroom. And I rip open his front door. And there I am a rape victim. of his standing there 9.30 at night. And what he said to me determined all the next events. He casually looks over his shoulder, puts his arm up and goes, hey, how are you? I'm in his doorway holding a knife, 9.30 at night. You raped me as a child. And you just carefree, dismiss me.

Hey, how are you? And people reach out to me. me all the time and they want to confront their abuser. Not like a violent comfort. They want to, they want to confront her. And I say, no, don't do it. You're never going to get the response you're looking for. They can never let their guard down. Do you think they're going to say, I'm sorry? Right. I apologize. They're sick. I, right. But in my mind, I'm like, and you expect a normal response out of somebody who's abnormal. And it doesn't work. Like, had he gotten down on his hands and knees, Clark, I always thought you or someone else might come back. I need help, bro.

I am sick. I know I'm sick. I apologize. I wronged you. I hurt you. I hurt other people. Please have mercy on me. Please help me to get help.

Like, that's what you'd want to hear. But you're not going to hear that. Instead, it's, hey, how are you? like I'm an aunt, like I'm nothing, like you didn't destroy my life. And I told you earlier how we have two faces, the face we show the world and the face behind closed doors. No one has ever seen my face behind closed doors, but Dennis is going to see it right now. It's a face of pain and anger and hurt and shame and violence and rage. And I go, hey, how am I motherfucker, let me show you how the fuck I am. And I race across his room and a violent, ugly battle

begins. I'm slashing at him. He's punching me. And at one point, he connects squarely to my jaw and I started falling backwards. I grabbed his shirt with my left hand and I screamed you, motherfucker. And I took the knife and I brought it down and I put it right through my hand. It out and poked into him and it severed all the ligaments and tendons and now I'm gushing blood and the fight continued on and I mean you're talking maybe two three minutes and he slipped in blood fell down and he was up against the wall and I kneeled down in front of him I got eye level with him and I said it's not so fun raping little boys now is it tennis and I slid his throat and I told my buddy who was standing in the doorway like wide-eyed.

I'm like, go down and get your van and bring it up here. And I just wanted to be alone for a minute. And I haven't been back to that house since he raped me. And I walked over to the bedroom he raped me in. There's bloody footprints that walk over to that bedroom, stop at the doorway, and I spit on his bed. And I did. what almost every single abuse victim has at one point thought of doing.

Like, what is done to you is so horrific and violent and extreme that your mind can only think of revenge to even the score. I stopped a predator from ever harming another child. And that's a good thing. But in no way whatsoever. did anything for healing. Like, you don't heal from the trauma of abuse by adding in the trauma of murder. Right. Like, you don't do it. And so many people are like, come on, man, you had to feel good after that.

And, like, have you ever killed anybody? It's not pleasant. Right. Like, everybody, every mother, father, like, if that ever happened to my kid, I'd go kill them. Well, how many millions of kids are abused? year and there's not millions of deaths. So no, you won't. So don't throw that casually out there. You won't do it because you're going to flush your life away and you're going to end up in prison. If you're an abuse victim and you do what I did, you're going to end up in prison with all that

trauma with you. And now you're in absolute hell, which prison is. And that's where I ended up. So no, don't do it. Don't follow in my footsteps. Get that thought. out of your head and start healing, start talking about it. Get therapy. Get clean from drugs and alcohol. Get faith. Exercise. Like get healthy daily habits. And don't give the valuable real estate in your mind to your abuser. I let Dennis Pegg inside here for decades. You can't do that. You can't sit on your couch and ruminate over and over and spin cycle for hours out of time what happened to you. Because he didn't take just all that control that day that he raped you. He continued to take from you for the next 30 years, you know? Which they do it at each person through our thoughts.

And you can't allow that. No. This is the most valuable real estate you'll ever own in your life. Don't give it to the animal that raped you or abused you. Right. And now, if I die in prison, Dennis controls me from age six all the way to death. Right. And he's not even there anymore. He's not even alive. That is insanity. You can't allow your abuser of that control.

No. I was arrested the next day. What did your friend end up doing? He went and got the van. And then what? We got the van. We drove back to my house. I'm bleeding.

Uh-huh. I had a glove on and I'm like in my garage, I took the blood off. There's just blood every, in his van, there's blood everywhere. And I'm like, bro, I got to run up and get a roll of paper towels. Like, just then we got to think about this. I run up to get the paper towels and I see the van back and down my driveway. And I'm like, well, yeah. What the hell, man?

and I knew this injury was going to be my downfall. You can't just walk into a hospital with a wound like that and be like, I stab myself. Yeah. And the irony of all that is that one Christmas, this was my Boy Scout hunting knife. And one Christmas, Dennis bought me a knife sharpening kit, a wet stone, an oil, and over a glass or two of eggnog at our house, he taught me how to sharpen my knife

to keep the perfect blade on it. And for 33 years, I kept the perfect blade on that knife. And that's a knife. Subconsciously, I took with me to his house. I woke up that next morning, and I knew I'm like, I just sat there, like, digging my fingers into my head, and I'm like, I can't believe, like, what I did.

I can't believe it. And I'm like, I'm so screwed. I'm like, what am I going to do with this injury? Like, I need medical attention. My hands like this. It's literally like that. And obviously, Dennis was just left at his house. Yeah.

Okay. And he didn't live with anybody. No way. No. And it was, my mother had just come up from Florida. So welcome home, mom. Right. And I called the buddy.

that night to come over, who saw me earlier in the night and, like, called me, like, you know, like, he saw I was not in the right frame of mind. He's like, you need me call me later, you know, and I called them. I said, come over. And the girl I was dating at the time, I said, come over here. And I said my goodbyes to him. And I sent my buddy up to wake my mother up. and I told her I took care of a problem that needed to be taken care of. I took care of Dennis Pegg. And she couldn't fathom like what I was telling her. She's like, why you?

Why would you have to go do that? And I'm like, to avenge all the boys' lives he's roamed. And she's like, all right, that's well and good, but why are you? Like, I couldn't tell her I was one of those boys. Still couldn't even say it to my mother. And my mother called my sister early in the morning and my sister's like, you know, oh, we got to do a well-being check. Like maybe Clark's just like out of it. Like nothing happened or maybe Dennis is wounded and we can get him help before he does die.

And we can save Clark from a life sentence. So they called in a well-being check and Dennis was dead. and the cops surround my house. And when I'm lying in bed, I got up, poured a glass of wine, and I look out my window, and there's cops everywhere. Like my street is lined with a dozen plus cop cars.

They're behind trees. They're behind rock walls. They're behind the shed outback. They're everywhere. I pound that glass of wine. And like, I mean, the feeling of like, it's over. Like, it's just, Like I said, there's so many times I've been broken in my life.

And I poured another glass of wine. And out of a loudspeaker, I hear Mr. Frederick just come out of your house with your hands up. And I chugged that glass of wine. And I grew up as in the Episcopal Church as an altar boy. And at age 12, back then, the old minister, where, you know, it was like, if you do good, good things will happen to you. If you step out of line, you incur God's wrath. And I had 12 years old getting raped by an animal, like, I couldn't understand how I could

have done something so heinous to incur God's wrath. And I put a wall up between God and me back then. And I went through this God to me. became a Lucky's Rabbit's Foot, Lucky Rabbit's Foot. Like I would get into risky drug deals and risky behavior and driving high and be like, you owe me, bro. You better get me through this. That was my relationship with God. You owe me. And now as I'm walking to my front door, I said to God, God, I'm done with life. Like, I forfeit the rest of it. Please let one of these cops shoot me when I step out on my front porch.

And I stepped out and I put my hands out and I put my head back and nothing happened. I was waiting for that crack of a gun just to be like, ah, it's over. Instead, I was spreading gold on my front lawn, handcuffed and taken away to the police barracks. At the police barracks, something amazing happened.

The lieutenant of the state police who worked the crime scene, came into my holding cell and said, I want to apologize to you. I go, what do you want to apologize to me for? And he's like, I've known about Dennis Pegg for a long time. I've heard rumors about him, but I can't arrest somebody for rumors.

Like, people think he's gay. Are they just making up stuff about young boys because he might be gay? Like, I don't have victims and I don't have evidence. I just hear. rumors. And I apologize that I never stopped him.

And he left. And I felt like, oh my God, that was pretty nice. And then I just got like fuming. Like even the state police know about this guy. And yet I got to be the one to put an end to him to stop his reign of terror. You can't allow someone to

rape kids for 45 years. And turn a blind eye. Yeah. The whole war, enforcement, like, turn a blind eye. Like, what do you need to see a video of it? Right. And to be fair, my classmate did go forward and press charges and then pulled them. Two separate Boy Scouts, it would get uncovered.

I'm jamboree weekend, where you go away for the weekend, came home and had hickies all over their bodies. Two separate times at different times. The parents, one mother took her son to the state police filed charges. The next morning, the father went there and pulled the charges and said, I don't want my son labeled gay. Same thing. Another set of parents, hickies on the body, took their son, filed charges. A month or two later, pulled the charges. Our son is just too distraught to testify in court. We can't put them through that. Pull the charges.

I just think they would at least investigate. that lieutenant of the state police would tell me later it would get uncovered that someone in the state police prior to him put together a dossier on Dennis Pegg went up to the prosecutor's office put it down and said go arrest Dennis Pegg here's a case involving a young boy and whether the prosecutor didn't feel it was enough evidence at the time or it got shuffled, never saw the light a day. So there's four instances right there. There could be more. That's just what was uncovered. You know, everything was done handwritten back then. There was no computers. Right. That same lieutenant comes back into my holding cell. And he's like, look, man, I got your blood all over the crime scene. You got a severe injury. He's like, this isn't a who done it. He goes, but it doesn't mean your life is over. He's like, my detectives are waiting in another room with the prosecutor's detective.

to interrogate you. If you go into that room and open your mouth, you could ruin the rest of your life. I'm telling you to go in there, request a lawyer, and exercise your Fifth Amendment rights and keep your mouth shut. That's it.

Anything they ask you, say, I request my lawyer. And I'm like, but I don't have a lawyer. And he goes, I'm going to take care of that for you. And I didn't know after that. But he left that room and on his cell phone, he called the most high-profile lawyer in our county, George Daggett, and said, George, I need you to fax over a retainer immediately, like ASAP. And he goes, what's the name and what do he do? He goes, Clark Frederick's murder.

George goes, okay then. And within two minutes, there was a fax that he was representing me. And Howie Ryan went into the interrogation room, said this just came for Clark Fredericks. And the prosecutor's detectives started screaming at Howie. Now he's like, look, man, I didn't do anything other than tell this guy to exercise his Fifth Amendment rights. And Howie's like, that's the first time in my 27-year law enforcement history that I told, especially someone for murder to keep their mouth shut. He goes, but I just went back in.

He goes, I went back in that holding cell. I took a look at you and I could tell you, you mailed it in. You were done. You gave up. And I didn't want you to give up. I didn't want your life to be over. I went to, they took me from there to the hospital to get emergency hand surgery. You know, like, does any of this sound fun?

Like, like for people that want to go do what I did? Does any of this sound even remotely, like, enjoyable? First of all, no, obviously not. But you are such a good storyteller. Like, incredible. I mean, the way that you articulate your story and what you've gone through, not only can you just, you're very raw with your emotions and everything, but also you're just, you're incredible telling your story.

Thank you. I mean, back in college, I had to get up and stand in front of, you know, we had at Northeastern we had those big classes, you know, that went up like that and there's hundreds of kids in there. Right, the huge lectures. Yeah, like I had to give a presentation. I was doing shots of vodka at eight in a morning, like trying to get my courage up. Like, and it was the most horrific experience in my life to stand in front of people and talk. Right. And like, and people say that. Like, I don't know how you can talk so well about what you went through. And it's like, I'm like, go on Google or go on YouTube and search Clark Frederick's courtroom testimony.

And you'll see a completely broken dude who's breaking down crying, struggling to get each word out. But every time you tell your story, the hold that has on you lessons. Like when you can't speak about it, it's got you firmly in control. When you can speak about it on your own terms, you're in control of it. And it's a big shift. And it happens over time. Absolutely. And I love that you say that too because there are so many people that kind of like I was telling

you before we got started, they're still very much maybe in their trauma and they haven't gone through their healing yet. And it's very difficult for them to tell their stories or it's their first time. But I love that you mentioned that once you were there too. But you also now are here where you can tell it as your story as it being part of your life, but not defining who you are. It doesn't take a hold of you. anymore. Yeah. Like I, I control how I let it out now. Right. And when you want to.

Exactly. Exactly. It's a big shift for people. And it happens to everyone who starts talking about. And there's no timeline on that either. You know, I think it's very easy to now being where you're at, knowing what you know to look back and be like, damn, like younger me, why didn't you just speak up? But it's like you weren't there yet. You didn't have the tools yet. You weren't ready. And it happens when it's supposed to. to genuinely. I mean, could my life, you know, had I mustered up the strength to tell my father when he asked me those couple times, like my life would have taken, you know, it would have taken a different trajectory, I would have, I would think.

But, you know, then you also have to, you also have to think, I had to go through everything I went to. Absolutely. To have a story, to have a mission. So I can tell people who want to. go do what I did, don't do it. Yeah, exactly. Like, there's very few of us that have gone and done that.

And you're going to end up in prison with the same trauma you were trying to get rid of. And you're going to have that trauma. You're just going to be someone else. Yeah. It's, I can't stress that enough how hellish prison is. It's not where you, I actually used it to heal. But it's, I am the, like, one minuscule thing, grain of sand. a beach that does that. It's not the place you want to go heal. So just start healing now.

And then that desire to kill is going to like dissipate. So I get the surgery. I end up in the county jail, the same jail he worked at. And they put me in a suicide cell. And there's a camera on me. The lights are on 24-7. No mattress. Don't get anything. You're on a metal thing. and I thought these guys were going to give me the beating of a lifetime. You know, you got that blue wall. And I figured he was protected. Like nothing ever happened to him for molesting inmates at the jail and taking him home. So like, why would I believe that they're not all covering for him?

Yeah. And the first time that door opened after I woke up, the next day, I thought, here it goes. And the guy comes in and he's like, hey man, I just want to tell you, keep your mouth shut. Don't talk to anybody in here. He's like, let things play out. I'm like, okay. And he left.

Like they have to do sell checks. It's like, they come in there, even though the camera's on me. They still have to check the cell. And next person comes in on the next shift. And he's like, hey, man, I'm hearing a lot of stuff about this dude. I didn't know him. I didn't work with him. But just let it all play out.

Just try to stay calm and just don't talk to anybody. And a couple days later, the son-in-law of a girl I had dated came in. And he's like, my man, how are you? I was like, dude, pretty shitty, bro. He's like, oh, I understand. He's like, do you have any idea what's going on in the community? I'm like, do they view me as a monster? He's like, the hell no.

Dennis Pegg was the monster. Everybody wants to know why he was still walking the streets. He goes, he goes, people have started a free Clark campaign. He goes, there's bumper stickers everywhere, free Clark, shirts, hat. He goes, everybody in the community is rallying behind you. I was like, really? He's like, yeah. And like, I couldn't like understand the full scope of that.

But at a hearing, you're constantly having hearings. And in court before the judge, the prosecutor goes, Your Honor, I think I may have a hard time finding an impartial jury because every morning driving to work, all I see is free Clark stickers on vehicles. He's like, I don't know how I'm going to find an impartial jury. And I'm like, he's worried about finding an impartial jury. Like, for real?

I'm being held in the jail where this guy worked. I was in that suicide cell for four weeks. Because they didn't want something happening on their watch. And it would look really, really iffy. And then I had a cast on my hand, and they wouldn't let me into general population, but they put me into an isolation cell by myself. So then I was in there for another three weeks.

And then finally released the general population. And I was trying in those first two months to pray. and every time I would close my eyes I'd either see images of the rape, other sexual acts. I would see the murder and I'd have to just shake my head and abandon attempts at prayer. But when I got into general population, I saw my mother for a visit. And my mother, as she waited in line outside, saw her minister, came out of the jail. He'd been in to see somebody's child. And he went up to her, gave her a hug. And then he grabbed her bite of shoulders. And he goes, Joan, I want you and your son

to pray on the number five as in a five-year sentence. And she came in and she started telling me this. And I'm just like, I'm like, mom, I'm like, you've got to pick a number that's more realistic. A five is not going to happen. You know, like, in my head, I'm like, man, if I could get a 20, that would be great. Right. Maybe a five, zero. Yeah, you know, like, I killed a law enforcement officer. And I'm in the jail where he worked. Uh-huh. Like, it is done. Like, you want to talk about, people talk about how bad their life is.

I mean, does it get much worse than that? Like, I am at the bottom. I told you, I was broken. It doesn't mean you're finished, though. So for everybody else, let this just be a cautionary tale. But let it, it. inspire you that anything's possible. So I knew I was putting my mother through absolute hell. So I'm like, all right, mom, I'll pray. I'll pray on a number five. But I couldn't pray.

You know, I couldn't want to tell her to that. So I signed up for Bible study. And it, you know, it takes two weeks to get approved. And, you know, they take two elevators of us down to Bible study. And I maneuvered my way to the back of the world. room and everybody's going up to this guy and he's shaking her hands he's hugging him he's got a broad smile on i'm just like you phony baloney like you got you wag my your finger at me boy and i i'll tell the guards get me out of here immediately and i'm like i'm like ready to go up there for a

confrontation with the dude like right i got myself so amped up like watching everybody and just i'm fuming like and i go up and he puts me at a hug and I'm stiff as a board and he whispers in my ear, I've been praying for you and my congregation's been praying for you. The last time somebody whispered in my ear, it was just one more minute. And now this guy whispers, I've been praying for you. I pulled away from, I go, really? I go, do you know who I am and what I'm here for? He goes, I read the papers. He goes, I know. I was like, all right, thank you. And we went in to Bible study instead of him opening up the Bible and reading a verse, he started talking about God's free will. And he's like, God is not a sovereign God in charge of every aspect of every person's being. We want God to be the superhero who saves the plane from crashing or the train from derailing or the rape from happening or the child from getting molested. God would just be a superhero then. And he's like, God is not a sovereign God in charge of every aspect of your life. God's given a

us free will. And you can use your free will for good or for evil. And a person next to you can use it for good or for evil. And something you could be at a vulnerable state and a person using their free will for evil could do something bad to you. And that's the first time I ever heard the concept of free will, to be honest with you. And that allowed all that anger and rage towards God to dissipate. And that night I went up to my cell and I was able to pray when I went to bed and boom. And I got books sent to me from all over the country. Like almost every cell had my books in it because you could only have six books. My locker had six books, your personal locker. My roommate, you know, so I had 12 books in my room, you know, my roommate, like, I'm like,

hey, these are your six. These are my six. And then other cells had my books. And, you know, at one time I'm in my cell and I just called out to God. I said, God, you got to help me heal myself or kill myself. Because I just can't go on feeling like this. You know, just every day was just feeling so down and broken and depressed and empty. And I heard like an internal voice say, pick up a book and start reading. And I picked up the littlest book that somebody had sent me. It was Victor Frankl's Man Search for Meaning from Holocaust Survivor, Victor Frankl. And I read that. There were so many great lines in there, but one line, like, flipped the switch to me. And to paraphrase, it was, when you are faced with a situation you cannot change, you are challenged to change yourself. And I'm like, wow. I'm like, all right, this situation I'm in ain't going to change.

like I could potentially do life. I was charged for first degree murder 30 to life by the New Jersey Prosecutors Association. And I want people to hear that. New Jersey Prosecutors Association charged me with life because that's going to come back at the end of the story. And I read that book and it ignited something in me. I'm like, all right, I'm going to change. And then I read The Power of Now by Eckertoli on mindfulness. I was riding with bikers doing cocoa in the strip bars.

If you told me like, Clark, there's going to be a book on mindfulness that's going to change your life in a few years from now. I'd be like, get out of here with that garbage mindfulness. And like so much of that book spoke to me. And then I just like, I dove into reading. And I,

And I had to read close to 500 books while I was locked up. And I got cleared. The jail, to their benefit, they brought in a physical therapist to work with me with my hand. Like, this didn't get attached. But they got movement back in my hand. And after a year, he's like, you're cleared to start working out and using your hand. And I tried to do push-ups. and I could get two pushups.

That was it. That first year, I was so down, I took it out on commissary food, buying garbage off a commissary, sitting in my bunk and reading books and just eating crap. I put on 60 pounds that first year. Every year you're locked up, they take you down in the jail for a mini-physical,

and then I weigh you. And the nurses were like, holy hell, Clark. You got to slow down. Like, dude. And my lawyer actually came in, like, after that year mark. And to be blunt with everybody, he called me a fat fuck. He goes, holy hell, dude, you're a fat fuck.

And I was like, bro, you don't know what it's like, man, I'm under such stress. He's like, are you going to make it to trial? If you go to trial, he goes, you're a balloon. And, like, I had no coping skills. Everything was a vice. I needed a quick fix. These shabang, whole shabang potato chips make me feel great as I eat them in this smart food bag makes me feel great.

And these honey buns make me all staples of incarceration food. And I like how, like, you're very attentive. Yeah. Like, I feel like I have to capture. your attention. It's great. And so, like, I'm like, all right, the physical therapist just cleared me. I got to start turning this around. They even, I had such endema in my legs, they sent me to a cardiologist. And you want to talk about embarrassing?

I'm in a one-piece orange jumpsuit. They got my ankles shackled. They got my wrist shackled. I got a sheriff officer on each side of me. The waiting room is filled with old ladies and old men. Like, who else goes to a cardiologist? And they come bringing in with me and I'm shuffling along doing my little penguin walk. And everybody's eyes are like, oh, my God. And the receptionist, like her eyes bulged out. And she's like, we'll get you right into the back right now.

Like, there was no waiting that took me right back. And, you know, they did a EKG. They did an ultrasound. And what they determined, I was a fat fuck. Yeah. There was nothing wrong in my heart. Exactly. You're just fat.

So I'm like, all right. I got to start. I'm going to put down the potato chips, I guess. That sentence, you know, like changed your challenge to change yourself. So I'm like, I got to change myself, man. And people that are unhealthy, and I'm not fat shaming anyone. I was fat. And I don't mean to shame anyone in the audience if you're heavy, you know.

Because at the gym, one of the greatest things I love seeing is someone heavy in there. Like, yeah, go for it. Get your life back. Get your health back. You know? I could do two push-ups, two. That was it. And then I'd collapsed at a ground.

Also, like you said, at the time, that was your coping skill. That's what you were turning towards. You were reading and you were eating. You know, before that, it was addiction and other things. So it was just another. Being a picture of health wasn't one of the things I was concentrating on. I was trying to kill myself. I didn't care.

So I just wanted, I wanted just everybody to know, I could do two push-ups. About a time I left prison, I was doing a thousand a day. So that journey of that thousand miles literally does start with that first step. You've got to start somewhere. You know? And that's why I like just telling my story because I've walked the walk. Right. Everything. I've done it all. Like, and I relate to so many people.

You got drug or alcohol issues? I've been there. You got gambling issues? I've been there. You got sex addiction? I've been there. You got food addiction? I'm with you. 60 pounds in a year. Like, I'm right with you. You can't do more than two push-ups. I'm right there with you too.

Like, I got it. Kill somebody? Gotcha. You want to kill somebody? Right. I'm telling you don't because I did it, you know? There's been so much, you know? And for the first two years I was locked up and your mind when it's, when you've abused drugs and alcohol, your mind gets rewired for those.

those pleasure chemicals. And it took me two years to stop fixating on a glass of red wine and a line of Coke. Because to me, they weren't perfect together. Like I'm like, man, if I could ever get out from this life sentence, I'm facing life. And this is what my mind's saying. Like, oh, if I can ever get out of this life sentence, I can't wait to do a line of Coke and have a glass of red wine. Oh, that would be so good. Like somewhere and like start a year three, I was like, what are you insane? Bro, look where you're at because your pain and your abuse of drugs and alcohol took you to. Like, you can never go back to that.

Never, ever. Like, it's detox. Yeah, it takes time. Like, I hear people like do 30 days and they think they're off to, they're good. Like, no, you're not good at 30 days. Like, man, you got to go check into a sober house for six months after that. Like, you know, you're, you know. know, still that good. Like two years in and I'm still dreaming of Coke and red wine.

Right. Like, you know, do your 30 days, do the sober house, do a meeting every day. Like, it takes a while to rewire your brain. Um, so in year three, it just, it was like a revelation. Like, there's no way I can ever go back to that. We go to court. There's no such thing as a speedy trial when there's a murder case. So at the three-year mark, just before the three-year mark, we hired a psychologist. We hired her at year two. But it took a year because she was writing a book to, like, draft her whole report on me. But it was a psychological report. And in that report is the abuse, is the murder, is drugs and alcohol.

It's my whole story. And you don't go to court like on TV. and it's a whodunit and they don't know anything. The prosecutor has to get all of this info. So he got this report. And at the, it was June 15th. I got arrested June 13th. So June 15th, we go to court and they offer me a plea deal to second degree manslaughter,

which carries five to 10. and I first degree was 30 to life and now I'm down to 5 and 10. And my lawyer said, I'll do whatever you want. Like, you want to, he presented with this to me weeks in advance before that court date. He's like, you want to go to trial, we'll go to trial. He's like, you know, I think we got a valid case. He goes, but just think if we go to trial and you lose, you're doing. 30 life. He goes, your mother's in her 80s. You'll never see her again. He goes, if you take this

plea deal, you've already got three years in. He goes, and you know, you can be out in a couple of years. So it's just too risky to go to trial. So when on June the 15th, when we went to court, that's where I read this 15-minute statement where I'm completely broken. And I accepted the plea deal. So now I still have to go back for sentencing. And in that, in that period, and why that was so tough is when I read that statement is because the courtroom was filled with my family and friends. There was a hundred people outside the court. There was people out in the steps. hundreds of people showed up. And I had, in my statement, I had to out my brother, my older brother as one of Peg's victims.

And I had to talk about Jeff's suicide. And that was really tough to talk about those things and to know my brother's right over my shoulder and he hasn't addressed his pain yet. It took six months for us to go back for sentencing because I had to. to meet with the now the the prosecutor has to hire a psychologist to interview me and draft a report and I met with him several times you know you got to do like you know like I don't know how many exams 500 multiple choice you got to take and I did the Rorschach test and I did I had to draw pictures and I had to look at pictures and describe what the scene is and like all this stuff. He drafts his report, and he thinks I fit in perfectly to passion provocation.

Our defense was diminished capacity. Capacity, sorry. He says passion provocation fits perfectly. It's never been used 30 years after the fact. But there's four criteria to passion provocation. You know, the husband comes home and the wife's in bed with the mailman and he kills her or him. that's passion provocation. And I fit into those four criteria. And that was my defense, thanks to the prosecutor. The prosecutor came up with my defense. And when my lawyer and the prosecutor met with the judge to tell him we've arrived at a plea deal,

the judge wasn't like a big fan. and he said to them both, you can expect Frederick's to do every day of those 10 years. And then sometime from that meeting to when I went for my sentencing, whether he looked into the case more, whether he talked to people, whatever happened.

In court, he apologizes to me. He says he's tempted to liberate me right now. And then he says, I'm going to give you the minimum that I'm allowed to give you five years. And I apologize for having to send you to prison for a single day. So something shifted in him in those couple months to give me the minimum. And I heard five years. And that thing I scoffed at my mother at, my mother said, I believe in God. And I believe in miracles.

And you better start believing, too. And I did. And I had prayed ever since. I had that Bible study class and I put into meditation a five and I repeated a mantra all day long with a five in it. I just got the five that I thought was impossible. I looked over my shoulder at my mother and she's like, gave me a wink and a nod. And I stood up and I got a standing ovation from the audience. And the judge didn't freak out and bang his gavel.

He let it go on. And I got sent off. I had to go do, I did three and a half years in the county jail, I had to go do a year at Northern State Prison in Newark, New Jersey. And my very first day there, a therapist came to my cell and said, I followed your case on the news. I can't believe you just arrived here. Will you start therapy with me? And I was like, absolutely. So I had to go to prison to get therapy for the first time in my life. She said in my second one-on-one with her, run a group therapy class for childhood trauma, not necessarily molestation, but childhood trauma. And will you join that? And I said, yeah. And that was the single most greatest thing for healing

I could have done. I was in there with blood gang members, Latin king gang members, Muslims, blacks, whites, every creed, every religion. And we all had, uh, you know, uh, you know, horrific childhoods. And we would share it and we would cry in front of each other. You can't cry in prison. But in that class, we all took an oath that nothing would leave. It was a safe space. Yeah. If anybody shared anything, they would be immediately booted out. So I did therapy. I did group therapy. I did Bible study. I did church. I've never, you want to see a lively church. I'd never been to a church service like this. You get guys that are locked up 23 hours a day for seven days a week and they're out for two and a half hours at a church

service, they let loose. Right. It was so awesome, man. Love the church service in prison. Yeah. And I'm doing all these things. I'm doing my thousand push-ups a day. I'm doing burpees. I'm working out. I'm healthy. I'm writing my manuscript for what would become my memoir. I joined, my therapist told me like, I can't believe it. For the first time in a New Jersey prison ever, they're going to have a meditation class, Vapasana meditation. She goes, I want you to sign up. Maybe you'll be one of the 15 to get accepted.

I was one of the 15 that got accepted. Every Friday for two and a half hours, we're in a classroom doing Vipasana meditation. I love that. It was just calming and peaceful and centering and grounding. It goes back to the mindfulness. Put you right in the present moment. Yes. Everything that was in the power now, being in the present moment, being in the now.

I got released from prison. And I saw on a cell phone, on my cell phone about a Boy Scout case in the county next to me where they were suing their Boy Scout leader and the Boy Scouts. And it mentioned the law firm, big high-powered law firm. And I called up. and the lawyer representing them got on the phone and he goes, I know your case, come in and see me. And I went in there that day for selfish reasons to file a lawsuit against the Boy Scouts. But he read me to law and he goes, you have no case the way the law is read.

The law stated that you had to come forward at age 18. You had a two-year window from 18 to 20 to file a lawsuit. Who's getting raped at 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 50? and coming forward at 18 to file a lawsuit, your life's shattered. You're not doing that. So like the law, like, it was basically a dead law. Nobody was using it. And he said, I know advocates who have been working for 15 years to get a new law adopted. Why don't you become an advocate? Maybe your story is so over the top, you can push some of the senators holding it up. And he goes, I think it would be healthy for you to do that kind of work.

Yeah. I was like, I agree. He goes, I'll have some advocates in my office in two weeks. He goes, and come back then. And I went back and I met this guy, Fred Marigliano. He and I became really close. And I met the other advocates. And we started calling on senators.

And two years, I was in Trenton all the time. And two years after, After becoming advocate, I was in Trenton for the vote on the new law and it passed unanimously. Amazing. And the new law took the age up to age 55 because the stats we had is that people don't come forward and talk about their abuse until age 48 to 52. Right. So this gives everybody time to heal before they have to worry about a lawsuit. And that was something myself and every other advocate can like go to their grave feeling good about.

Like I got to testify before the House Judicial Committee. Like a guy who murdered somebody is now speaking to the House Judicial Committee and like telling them you're going to have blood on your hands. You're going to have a whole lot more Clarks running around if you don't pass this new law. Yeah. And they passed. Incredible. From there, when you write a book, half the battle is getting a literary agent, and then the other half is getting a publishing deal. If you want to go to traditional route, everybody can self-publish. It's pretty easy nowadays.

But I wanted to go to traditional route. When I got out, I asked the minister at my mother's church who had told, her pray on the number five. I went into a private meeting with him and he's like, how can I help you? What can I do for you? I go, I got a manuscript. I think it's pretty good. But I don't know anybody in the literary world. Can you help me out? He goes, yeah, one of the parishioners has written several books and I'll hook you up with him. Hook me up with this guy and the guy hooked me up up with his literary agent and signed me up right away. And this guy, we hired a person to draft our first book proposal. And the guy from church paid to $5,000 out of his pocket. I said, I said, dude, I don't know when I'm going to have money. He goes, I'm not looking for you to pay me

back. He's like, I love your story. And he goes, so he paid it out of his pocket. That first book proposal didn't go anywhere. I wrote another book proposal. That didn't go anywhere. On the third book proposal, I got a publishing deal from Simon & Schuster. They made an offer, gave me a nice advance, and signed me to a publishing deal. I also did a documentary with the producer of Dateline NBC. And they had a series of eight different stories. And this aired, on their oxygen network. And from doing that documentary with them, I got on the Tameran Hall daytime talk show.

And from doing, and I was on the Tameran Hall show with Gabrielle Bernstein. And she's like this, you know, motivational nine-time bestselling author. When I was locked up, I was watching Oprah's Super Soul Sunday show. And she was on that. and I just loved her.

And now here I am on Tamron Hall with her. It's just like, wow. Full circle. It's crazy. And we both came out of the bathrooms at the same time. And there's like an alcove there. And I said, hey, hey, Gabrielle. I'm Clark Frederick.

I'm, you know, on the show with you today. And she's like, oh, my God. And she puts me into this hug. And now I get another whisper in my ear. She's like, you're my hero. And I'm like, why am I your hero? She goes, you don't know I've been abused also? I'm like, no.

She's like, yeah, she goes, I didn't come out with it till in my, I think late 30s. She finally confronted it. And I would end up asking her to write a blurb on the back of my book. And she said absolutely. So nine-time bestselling author, Gabrielle Bernstein, writes for my co. cover. From being on that talk show, I had a speaking firm in L.A. reach out to me to represent me as a speaker, motivational speaker. So in January of 2020, I quit my job. I was working as an assistant

chef at a restaurant. And they had speeches lined up from March till July. And my first speech was going to be over in South Korea at an army base for like huge money. And we know what happened in February, March of 2020, COVID hit. And like before I even got off and running, everything got shut down. And it actually drove that firm out of business. So for the next. two years, I just worked on my third book proposal. Yeah. And my agent, when it was done, worked on getting a publishing deal. And then that's when we got our publishing deal. My brother,

when I got out of prison, I was living at my mother's with my brother. My brother, self-destructed when I got locked up. He lost his tire business. He had a 33-acre farm that he lost. He lost his marriage. His kids weren't talking to him. He just spiraled downward and downward and downward. And he was completely shattered at the house, drinking every day. And a couple years ago, in February, three years ago, February, I came home and I found him on our kitchen floor dead. and I gave them mouth to mouth and chest compressions until the EMTs arrived. And then they worked on them for an hour. And he was already gone.

It was just so heartbreaking because like I've literally, and I say this humbly. I have inspired people around the world. and given them tips to heal and grow. And I couldn't reach my brother. He didn't want to hear a thing from his younger brother, the healing guru. I didn't want to hear it. And just drank himself to death.

And just we had screaming matches. We had crying matches. When I couldn't talk to him, I would write him letters and leave it at his place mat on the table where he sat and couldn't get through to just a devastating blow. And I didn't want, I wanted to try to prevent as many other families as going through what we were going through. So I started a podcast too, free like me. People come on, speak their truth and leave free like me. And then I started online coaching. Now, one of the people I coach is a woman in the Middle East, a Muslim woman.

Here I'm a born-again Christian, white older guy in the United States, and she's a younger Muslim woman over in the Middle East. And she saw one of my podcasts. And I actually had her do my show. We pixelated her face. and she called me up a few months ago and like she needs to talk about it but it's forbidden to talk about over there

it's it's the family doesn't want to talk about it the mother literally like puts her hands over her ears and tells her to stop the sister screams out her everybody's been abused do you think you're any different than any of us I don't want to hear about it stop stop stop and she needs an outlet she needs to get this you know it's killing her

and so I'm her outlet. You know, that's just one of the people. One of the, another one of the guys I coached, he was abused by the actual sheriff, the head guy in the county next to me. And he sued the county. And his lawyer told me that he goes, you don't know what you've done for this guy.

He goes, we would go to court and he would literally get under the benches in the fetal position and tell me I can't do this. I beg of you, don't make me do this. Let's just stop this. He's like, this guy was so broken. I've never seen it. And yet working with me, and I don't have magic pixie dust. But I get people, I get them to normalize it, to not be this big taboo monster that they can't talk about. And you just got to sit with people in the mud. Like sometimes if somebody's going to break their silence,

they should paraphrase it to whoever they're going to tell for the first time. Look, I got to tell you, Dev, I got to tell you something. You and I are close. And I'm going to trust you with something. And Dev, I don't want you to fix me. I'm not asking you to have the magical answers for me. I just want you to listen to me for us. second. Can you do that? Don't feel you got to fix me and then tell them. But tell people they don't

have people instantly like get squirrely. I think oh my God I don't know how to deal it. I got to what do I say? I got to fix this. When you're going to break your silence just paraphrase it to that way to people. Just sit in the mud with me, sit in the sandbox, sit across from me and just listen. Yeah, it's important. There's not enough listening ears. Exactly. And, uh, I did a book signing event where I had a panel. I had the lieutenant of the state police who arrested me on the panel. I had a NYPD officer who was raped as a child, became a functioning alcoholic, womanizer, blowing through marriages,

came across a video clip of mine online, reached out to me. and over the course of months, we developed a rapport. I invited him on my podcast, and he was able to come on and share it. And like he and I are best friends now. I had him on the panel. So he went from like keeping this secret, his whole life, to like he's in his 50s. And he's like, if I'm going to have any life that's worth living going forward, I got to confront this monster.

And it's never too late. No. God, no. I eventually had that coaching client who was under the benches in court come do my podcast. I'm like, I go, I think you're ready for the podcast, bro. He's like, all right, let's do it. And he did it. And then I'm like, I want you to be on my panel at the book signing event.

So like I had eight parts of the book that I read. from. And then I posed questions to the panel and I let the audience post questions. And these guys were up there and like, I had people drive from Maryland. We had that girl from Maryland, from Massachusetts, from New York City, from the Jersey Shore, from Pennsylvania. And one dude drove all night from New Mexico to be at that event. It was incredible. Like, it changes lives. Yeah, I couldn't. We pulled up and I'm like, is that, we got there early and like the parking lot was full. I go, is that for us? Like, it was already standing room only and it was 45 minutes before the event. Like, I'm paranoid because we had like 30 confirmed and it was well over 150. Right. And I was like, wow. So it was an amazing event. People don't realize the power that their story has at all.

They think that it's not that important. They think, I mean, I hear it all the time. When people want to come on the show, they'll say, I don't know if my story is crazy enough. I'm like, it doesn't, it's not about being crazy enough or. I get, they paraphrase that to me. Like, you've been through so much. I hate to like bring up. I'm like, right.

I go, your mountain is your mountain. Exactly. Don't ever compare mountains. There is nothing too big or too small. everybody has a story and everybody handles trauma differently but that's why it's so important to use your voice and speak out in it

whatever way you can and whether you end up reaching people that are your age that have been through something similar male or female you also can reach somebody who is still maybe very much where you were in your 20s and 30s that need to hear it and that you shorten that time

and you speed up that healing process and both are incredible There was this really, really cute girl with pink hair, just adorable. And she came from Massachusetts to the event. And she came out, came up to get her book signed, and she couldn't talk. She just bald, like bald and bald and bald and bawled and bawled and cried and cried and couldn't speak. And I said, look, I'm going to help you. I'm going to write my number down in this book when I sign it.

And I go, I want you to call me and we'll get through this. And it took her like maybe a month to finally reach out. And we spoke and I gave her some tips. And then we spoke again and I gave her some tips. And she was all over the place in her life. And I just sent her a message here or there thinking of you. and I just reached out to her this past week. And she's like,

you could just tell the wording of the message. She's like, I quit drinking. I'm sober. I've got a new therapist. She's getting my trauma out. Things are so much better. And I just love that you're still reaching out and thinking of me. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

And I'll keep you aware of what's going on. So from a crime, bawling mess, couldn't talk to that message was just like, yes. Yeah. So I got all those things going on from where I was. And then I forgot one thing, no, one thing. After I got that law passed, and I don't mean to say after I got the law passed, after all of us got the law passed. I now, like, that took up a lot of time.

Plus I was working insane hours at the restaurant. And I'm driving home one night. And I'm like, you know, it was a really long shift, really hot summer day. Or it was like just, it's hot in the kitchen. It wasn't a summer day. But I'm like, I think I'm ready for love. I'm like, I think I could do it now. But for 30 years, Lisa from college has been interested.

inside that skull just scratching, scratching, scratching. Back then with no cell phone, she used to write me love letters. And I held on to all of them for those 30 years. And whenever I would feel like her fading from my memory or feeling distant, I would get out her letters and read them and feel like that bond like instantly connected again. And I would tell my mother that I really screwed up. letting her get away. I had so many times in my mind where I was going to ride in on my horse and scoop her up and

save her. And then I'd think, but you got the mob that wants to kill you. You can't bring her into this. I'm going to ride on my white horse as the night and shining armor, scoop her up. But you're doing heroin and abusing drugs around her. clock. You can't bring her into this. And I would talk myself out of it. And I said driving home that night, it's not fair to get into a relationship with someone when I'm still connected to Lisa. I've got to reach out to Lisa. I have to apologize to her so I can move on. And I drafted a message,

and this love story is all on this book too. And I erased it. And I erased it. And then And I'm like, I rewrote it. And my thumb was hovering over the send button. And I'm thinking to myself, is it better to keep this fantasy alive of this amazing connection, amazing love that we had? Because I go, if I send this thing, and she's like, are you frigging nuts, bro, it's been 30 years. Just kick rocks, kid. Like, get over it already.

Like, that whole fantasy You'll get blown to smithereens And I'm like, Is it better to not send it And just keep it alive in my head? And then I'm like, what are you, a sissy? You gotta send it, bro. It's like, tell you, people, hit that send button,

take the chance, Go out on that date, start your diet, do those first two pushups, you got to. Then I sent it. And it took 24 hours for me to get a response. And she replied. And then I replied. And she replied.

And I replied. And I replied. And I replied. And I replied. And two weeks later, I said, I think we should get a cup of coffee. She lived in New York. I lived in New Jersey. We met at the midway point.

And by the end of that coffee date, it was back on. And we had some tough times early on. Like she had to take a leap of faith. Absolutely. And you guys are two different people at this point. That's what she kept telling me. We're two different people. She's like, you've lived this insane life that you don't know who I've become.

And we're two different people. We're two different people. You really have to rely on that communication and building that partnership. And she has to, she has. She has two sons. One was in college. One was 17. And this is like, I like to make fun of this, like how she sat them down.

And it said, boys, I got someone great in my life I want you to be. He was raped and abused as a kid. Just destroyed himself with drugs and alcohol. Murdered to a guy who raped him. But you're going to love them. There's nothing not to love. That's not how it went down. I love it.

But she had to tell them everything. Right. And her youngest son goes, he sounds like a real life Dexter. That's hilarious. And so we had that coffee and we both knew. That's make up for lost time. It had never left either one of us. And you deserve it.

You deserve to feel love. That was six years ago. And my love, Lisa, is here with me today. It's amazing. We live together in New York. We talk about marriage, you know. It'll happen, you know, eventually. And, like, it's just amazing that,

I can get the girl back at the end of the story. And I told you earlier that I was charged with first degree murder and prosecuted by the New Jersey Prosecutors Association who wanted to put me away for life. This past November, I was in Atlantic City, the week of Thanksgiving week, at Caesar's Resort as the keynote speaker for the New Jersey Prosecutors Association Conference, 1,000 prosecutors in New Jersey have their conference every year in Atlantic City and they reached out to me to hire me to pay me quite well, to give me a suite, to feed me to be their keynote speaker. Like you tried to put me away for life and now you're like, you're doing great things. You're helping people.

We love the trajectory of your life. We want you to come be our speaker. Like, you just never know where your life will take you. And it all began with speaking out, uttering the words I was raped, reading books, healing, getting faith, where I had no faith, finding love, allowing love to fill my insides. and then you've got to find a way to give back to others. You know, like you really take your healing to the next level. Fulfillment. Yeah, when you, like, when you can help that next person.

Yeah. And like, and I've done that. And I do that with coaching and with the podcast. And, and by doing events like this with you and reaching people. And, you know, so my book scarred one last time. Just so you get the right one. Yeah. I know you're going to want to get it.

Yes. And you'll put the link in. I'm sure. Absolutely. And to everything else too, your coaching. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, your podcast, whatever you want to do. This has a 4.9 rating on Amazon. It has a 4.7 on Goodreads. There's no other memoir that has that. And it'll inspire you. Whether you've been abused or not, it's just like everybody comes up to me. It's like, oh my gosh, that book was amazing. So I can't thank you enough. I'm honored to be here.

I stumbled across your show. And I'm like, we're all insane. I'm like, boy, is that the right title? And I started looking at it. I'm like, wow, she lets people really talk about their trauma and their stories without filtering it. I love that. And I'm like, let's do that. Let's reach out to her.

and you invited me on, and I can't thank you enough. Of course, I can't thank you enough. You, like I said before, genuinely, your story's incredible and so inspiring, and you do such an amazing job of telling it, and you can really, really feel the emotion through every single stage. And I say this to many of my guests. You know, I look at each episode almost like a story, like a book, and to hear someone's beginning, middle of being right in it all and then where they are now,

it's so full circle and amazing. And even if you're at this place now where you got it down, you're good at sharing your story and articulating it, it is never something to just brush off. It is such a big step and it takes so much courage and vulnerability and strength to put out there, some of the worst moments of your life. That's never easy to do. Even if it gets easier to say it, it's still very real. It's still a part of your life and who you are.

And it takes courage every single time to do that. So you should be proud of yourself for every single time that you do it and every single thing that you've done up until now. I mean, there's always going to be abused people. Always. And they're always going to need somebody to inspire them. And like, so the story, I was told by, a very influential person just the other day.

He's like, your story is timeless. He's like, you know, trauma, revenge, redemption. He goes, the full arc. He goes, people are always going to need that. They're always going to need inspiration. And he goes, you got that. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for coming out.

Thanks, Deb. Of course. You're amazing. Seriously. He did amazing, didn't you? You can subscribe now to We're Our All Insane Plus for only $5.99 a month. And it includes ad free listening, bonus episodes of We're All Insane, guided meditations, exclusive access to my brand new show, We're All Healing,

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