We're All Insane - I Robbed a Bank

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Matthew joins us to share his life that has been a rollercoaster ride of trauma, addiction, crime, and redemption. His story takes a dramatic turn when he decides to rob a bank because his girlfriend was expecting a baby girl. At that point in his life, he was desperate for a better future than he had as a child, willing to take extreme risks to escape his troubled past. Little did he know, his life was about to take an even more unexpected twist. It turned out that the child wasn't his, leaving him to face the harsh realities of his choices. Remarkably, Matthew managed to turn his life around while in prison. He has since transformed himself into a successful business owner, running an outstanding custom exterior contracting company. His mission now is to give back to his community and inspire others to rise above their circumstances. Follow Matt’s journey to create the Due South Design Center, a non-profit vocational rehabilitation facility. We aim to emphasize the transformative power of resilience, highlighting the journey of overcoming adversity and leveraging given talents to create a positive impact. http://www.DueItScared.com https://gofund.me/2de7c68c https://www.instagram.com/dueitscared https://www.tiktok.com/@dueitscared If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Matt Jones. I'm from Nashville, Tennessee. I've been out of prison for about three years. where I committed an armed bank robbery after a life of abuse, addiction, and toxic everything. I think it's important for people to know where I am right now because I'm not just a guy who robbed a bank and got out of prison. I have a successful business where I design and build custom projects for luxury, outdoor entertainment areas, interior stuff, spatial. I design them all, draw them, you know, communicate. We do the

GoPro videos, time lapses, and it's really cool. Like our page looks like a rock star, right? So I've done really good with this and started out with basically nothing, you know. Of course, when I got out of prison, nobody wanted to touch me. So like I said, it's important for people to know this because I, you know, I've done something that not a lot of people can say that they've done, which is go to federal prison and get out and beat the odds and get my shit together, right? So it wasn't easy either. So I think it's important to just go back to like the beginning and let people know how I got here because I'm not just some guy who, you know, had a bad.

day and went and robbed a bank and did the time and got out and had mommy, your daddy, your uncle, whoever, you know, helped me out because people have been bailing me out my whole life. And I've been basically a piece of, you know, I've been a bad. I've been basically bad, in my opinion, my whole life. So I feel like there's this paradox, you know, there is a paradox in my life of like good, bad, evil, wholesome, criminal, non-criminal. So my mom's side of the family, you know, growing up, we lived in this like inner city area and we went to a private school across town. So everyone in this, this little neighborhood, I mean, it was a black neighborhood. It had, you know, a black school, a black church, a black bar,

and you were the only white folks that live all the way in the back on this farm, right? And the rest of it's like house on house on house. And then there's this big, you know, plantation in the back of this place. So, you know, it's right by the hermitage and, you know, in Nashville. So it's kind of the way some of the places are down there. So it was this dichotomy, you know, of black, white, good, evil, my mom was the church lady of our family and made sure that my dad paid for us to go to private school and had to send us somewhere, you know, like to balance it out, I guess.

Right. So she had her fair share of issues as well. I mean, I lived with my aunt for probably the first three years of my life. I don't really remember it, but I know that I lived with her long enough to where I started. to call on her mom. She noticed that there was some abusive postpartum abuse type things going on. And when I started grade school, it was when I came back home. And it was always, it was like super traumatic there.

There was always, whether it's helicopters buzzing the house for what reasons I don't know, violence. My dad was an alcoholic. He was constantly like pistol whipping her every door in the house. had a hole from her face in it, you know, and I was totally desensitized to this stuff. I was, you know, this is, it's normal, you know what I mean? But, and then I'd go to like my grandparents and they had this, you know, cookie cutter lifestyle. It was suburbia and everybody around me, you know, had this, everyone in school was, you know, had this, this, you know, 80s sitcom,

mom, dad, you know, everybody, nine to five. And, you know, our life was, the basement was, well, you know, I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble here. So it was, I don't know what was going on down there, but it wasn't something that I was supposed to know about or see. Right. So, and then, you know, I got to hand it to my mom. She tried to keep me away from that type of stuff. You know, that's what the Christian school was for. My dad's side of the family.

They were all a farm family. and, you know, good people all the way out for the most part. So at, you know, that was the norm until I was about 10 years old, and we, maybe 12, my dad bought a place up in the country, a couple counties away, away from the city, and the rolls flip-flopped. Like, dad stopped drinking, mom started smoking weed and, you know, hanging out with people who drank.

There was some type of criminal, you know, there was some type of betrayal there between my mom and my dad, whether it had something to do with the DEA or the task force or whatever, and they got a divorce, like, within a year of moving up to this place. So I went from this place where I was going to a private school and, you know, had some, you know, some type of, it changed public school to private school. mom went from being church lady to, you know, party animal.

Dad went from pistol whipping, wife being an alcoholic to baptized, going to build a horse farm and do right by your mom, boys, you know, type of guy. Right about that point is like we're all hell broke loose for me. You know, I went from being this kid who knows. ever got had been in trouble to like I can remember like the first time I ever like got in trouble I was like ninth grade or something like that I'd snuck out I was around 14 years old and dad didn't live there but he happened to be there that night for some reason and um I came back in and uh you know I had been smoking cigarettes and smoking weed I think I you know puck my cocaine cherry and

And, you know, pills, lost my virginity, had hickies all over me, you know, like, hair stuck to the side of my face. It was a disaster. And I'm, like, halfway crawling in the window, and he flips the light on. So, like, they, like, beat me within an inch of my life and send me to school. It's, like, 4 o'clock in the morning when I'm coming in. And, like, a couple weeks later, I end up vandalizing a daycare, having a fire extinguisher fight. and vandalizing some buildings in town, one of which is like a school teacher, like mentor, father figure, who's basically this constant in my life. He comes into the picture at this time. I

didn't know who he is, but it's funny looking back because, you know, I vandalized his building and we got in trouble for it. And, you know, he advocated for me all the way through high school and ended up writing me letters while I was in prison and sending me money, sending me art supplies, and entered me into this mural contest where, like, two buildings down from the building I vandalized as a 14-year-old, I got the opportunity to, like, to put a mural on

and get paid for it. It was really cool. So, anyhow, I'm, like, dealing with criminal stuff, drugs, activity, basically running wild. at that point my dad had petitioned for me to come, you know, live with him. Like, you're not living here anymore. Mom's, like, letting you know, run the coop.

It's, you know, there's no supervision. So I went to stay with him and I hated it. I hated my life. I hated, you know, everything about that situation. I could remember, like, even, like, thinking about suicide and, like, literally having a gun. And just, I was taking away from my friends. I was taking away from the party. So when I'd go see Mom, it would.

be like the minute I'd get away it'd be like hey where's the cigarettes where's the beer where's the weed where's whatever where's my friends and then it'd be back to dads and it would be this you know strict you know you know very coarse situation you know there'd be these um trips that you would take you know out of state or whatever leave me some money and um say go do these chores and you know i would every other night it would be me like hey dad i'm tired of the meat and potatoes you know, let's order a pizza or something, right? And he would, he'd be like, I don't have any money. And I'd be like, okay, that's cool.

So I'd get a can or whatever out of the, out of this, you know, I'd make dinner just about every night. And then the next morning he would drive me to school and he'd pull out this big gangster knot, a cash, and be like, here's your lunch money. And I'm like, don't you said you can have the money. So my mom's always talking about this big giant, stack of money that's buried somewhere in a hole and I'm like yeah whatever you're crazy right she was

kind of crazy but anyways um when I see this I'm like so I tested it again hey dad let's get a pizza same situation and um you know I watch it happen and this morning I'm ready I'm watching everywhere he went it's like okay they had the horses he went out here he did this so when Saturday came and he took the trip out of town I've peeled up carpets and checked baseboards and ceiling vents and everywhere. It wasn't in the house. So I went outside in the shed and I stood there for like, I don't know, maybe 10 seconds and looked around. I was like, it's got to be somewhere in here, like close. So I see these like shovels leaned up in the corner over there like an angle and there was some buckets around.

So, or there, I peeled this blanket over and there's like three buckets in there. And I get these things out and pop the tops off of them. There's like these huge. stacks. Like this wasn't a reality to me. You know, I would always like, yeah, okay, you know, he does what? Okay, whatever. I got stuff to do, you know. And at this point, I'm looking at, you know, Miami Vice, you know, best episode out here. There's like, um, $25,000 bricks of 20s and $50,000 bricks of 50s. And, and I'm like a 14 year old kid going, you know, um, all of sudden, you know, of course, he sees me with a new pair of boots or a new pair of pants, like total dipshit, right?

That's not even the worst of it. The worst of it is like, mom, it's like, you know, she's the first person I called. Right. Hey, I found her. So she's like, if you tell me where it is, I'll pay off the house. We'll have a house to live in. We will, you know, always have this place. You don't have to worry about anything.

You know, your dad's going to move far away. So I was like, okay. And I told me. her about it and they came and got like $30,000 that's all I would let them have I wouldn't tell him where it was and she just blew it it was like gone I mean I think the night she got it she paid she just offered some dude like $300 for the jacket he was where you know bought a tow truck bought a burger stand it was all just up in flames in like maybe three months gone the house foreclosed like a year later and that was over she ended up like moving out to a rental trailer

in the country. And so my dad ended up moving, you know, several counties away. Like we're two counties east of Nashville. He moved like three counties west of Nashville. Did he find out that your mom that you let her have, what happened with that? So he confronted my mom. He knew that, you know, that I, he put two and two together. And I told, I told him, you know.

know that I told mom, I gave it to her. And he told her to keep the money and not to worry about it, that she deserved it. And that was that. But he didn't talk to me or, or he, he wasn't normal with me for like a decade, maybe more. Yeah. After that, it was maybe a couple comments were made. Like, I know after we moved down, like, he moved down to this place. It's Waverly, Tennessee. He moved down to this place. And even when we got there, there were Black Hawk helicopters hovering. And, you know, he's like, you know, he's shooting in birds, basically, you know, just being like, anyhow, nothing really ever materialized there. I'm pretty sure he retired.

So that's great for everybody, I guess. I bounced around from Hartsville to Waverly for my junior. and senior year. It was even he remarried and she was extreme psycho like crazy. I had been in some trouble. My whole teenage years was underage consumption, simple possession, underage consumption, simple possession, disorderly conduct, curfew, bing, bing, bing, one after the other. I mean, I ended up with an underage consumption like an hour before I was 21, like just all the way right. and then started racking up big boy charges after that. But I, it was funny because I had ended up in some trouble one time,

and I called her to come get me, and she told the cops that she was scared of me and that I couldn't come home. And they were like, we can't just keep you because she said she was scared of you. So I came home and threw everything I had in a garbage bag and went back up to moms. Of course, mom was like, I don't want you here. So I moved in with like a mentor guy and it's like 26 years old, a jack of all trades. He basically does what I'm doing now. There's no project that he would not take.

And, you know, we remodeled things. We did like restaurants and bars and, you know, I'm just a kid learning this stuff. There's a lot of drug use with this, like heavy drugs, pills, cocaine. And of course, they're smoking weed every day. We eat is like drinking water, you know. And I lived with him for a good, little period of time and kind of self-emancipated myself and I think I did good there.

I gained some skills and went to school and you know there was a friend of ours who got murdered like two doors down over like some weed deal, some kids had a wreck and some weed seeds were found in their truck and they told on the bad guy in town and the weed came from him and the guy murdered him right there on like the courthouse steps. And he was in our in that apartment. I lived with with the mentor guy that morning. It had given me a car.

And anyways, that's a whole other, a whole other episode. Most of these stories are, I mean, I could go to pick any one of these little days. Right. And it would be like, what the, you know what I mean? Anyhow, it's just crazy. So I bounced back and forth and I ended up graduating high school from Hartsville. like I spent the last four months of my senior year there. I think I did like before that I had this great idea to take one of those, you know, long strands of,

you know, the ones that got like 5,000 black cats on them, the firecrackers, like they just go on and on and on for like, you know, five minutes. So everybody's smoking the bathroom back in school when I was there. It was just like a big cloud of smoke coming out at lunchtime, right? So we go in there and put like the cigarette on the fuse to have a timer and lay it in behind there and like a captain football guy comes in there and sees me. He ends up telling on me. But I like this thing and we're standing waiting forever. And it finally goes off and just it's pandemonium in there. Like the whole school cleared out. And I didn't know this at the time, but on the other side of this wall was the teacher's lounge. And they were all in their glue to the TV because like an hour before that had been. the bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building, Timothy McVeigh thing or whatever, and we were on some type of terror alert.

And so they nailed me to the cross. You know what I mean? Mr. Oliver, the man who vandalized his building and was my mentor, he advocated for me, but it didn't help. But he was the only person who came to my hearing. And I ended up with like the rest of the year in the hole, which is basically like the hole for school, like jail for school. And so I went back to my dad's, so I didn't have to spend the rest of the year in the hole.

So anyhow, I graduate. I'm like just about to turn 18. It's literally like days before my 18th birthday. And we get a house there in town. We're partying. And we end up, everyone in the house goes to jail for like, a disturbance call of. I think they're asked to like eight people. We're two doors behind the courthouse. But we leave, me and a few friends leave and ride backroads from Kentucky and back.

And on the way back, it's like 8 o'clock on a Saturday morning and we go to wake everybody up. It's like the day of the first Ozfest concert, like ever in history that came through Nashville. So we're all going. Everybody's got tickets. We go to wake everybody up and we leave. And on the way out that morning, we had, like, blew the stop sign by a couple feet and the car drives by shooting birds. And we ended up in a road rage, high speed. It was insane, but it ended with, like, these two huge scars on my neck right here. We get in a big old brawl on the side of the road, and the guy tries to decapitate me. It was crazy, right? It was like blood everywhere. I mean, I can't see how I didn't die. I could literally see my artery, like right inside my neck.

like two weeks after that, we're coming back from this biker party. Actually, the biker party was two weeks before this happened. So in this one month period, right after I get out of high school, like it just my whole life is like, man, I'm just balls to the wall, you know, out of control. And I have this, they have these like backwoods. You don't know about them unless you get like word of mouth, biker. you know, shinned it. And there was like 500 bikes up on top of a hill

and a bonfire and LSD. And, you know, it was really wonderful, you know, for that time. So we end up getting kicked out of this thing, right? And I was being my usual belligerent punk-ass self and, you know, grab my junk and flipped them all off. And, you know, now we've got an angry mob chasing us. And they chased us all the way out of there.

a couple people got like seriously beat up by my mom and a friend like another one of the sisters of one of our friends just come out of nowhere we're running for our lives down this county road and I see a Roman candle shoot pass and I'm you know wig and balls and I'm just like a stop in the middle of this panvoning to admire the fireworks and it's them like I'm like you got to rescue us you know and we end up jumping in the back of this truck and getting chased back like 30 miles at the end of this trip there's this dude that my mom had been dating one of our friends

so there was like four or five of my friends as a teenager that that my mom had dated like just you know I'm 17 18 they're 17 18 and it's like every single one of them it's like this I'm like hey where's let's just say

for shits and giggles where's Tommy you know where's Jimmy where's where's Mike you know all of us would be hanging out but you know one guy and my mom is there and everybody else is kind of like yeah i don't know i haven't seen him all day i'd be like yeah me neither so i kind of caught on after like you know anyhow this one guy got a steel plate in his head and he's the guy that you know fights or pisses his pants after so many beers and um he's like we're all we've all took an acid that

night and he uh um so as this look in his eyes we come back and he um as we come back and he's like we're all we've all took an acid that And he, as I as we come back, and my brother, to wind it down, my brother ends up shooting this guy like nine times, like point blank. He had beaten, you know, the hell out of my mom. And in order to get him a stop, he had shot him like nine times. I pick him up and put him in the back of this truck that we rode all the way back home and it was full of bleach because my mom was a painter. He had like nine bullet holes in him.

None of them hit any organs, all extremities. he ended up apologizing like two weeks later. Two weeks after that is when I got my neck cut. And then two weeks after that, one of the friends and our big friend group committed suicide, all within like the month of my graduation, which I did by the skin of my teeth somehow. I had no idea how I graduated.

I missed like 68 days my senior year. Jeez. But you did it. I did, right? I did, right? So during this time, you know, I've got all these skills I'm working. I'm building, you know, some type of a skill set from, even from a younger age.

I always helped my uncle, you know, roof houses and, you know, do framing work. And I always worked in these, you know, these farming excursions that my family had. So there's always this motor skill, you know, working man type stuff going on that I was picking up on. And even then, I always felt like I was doing better than, anyone else in my class. Of course, I know that they were all probably going to college, and I'm out here, yeah, I'm making 20 bucks an hour, you know. So I might have been doing better for a second, but they passed me up down the road. And so my adult life was like me trying to have this family that I wanted. I can remember being nine years old and, you know,

basically it may and my objective to have a family to build what was fucked up in my life. I hated it. I love staying with my aunt. I love going over to my grandparents. I loved being over where there was, you know, a unit, a family. Stability, yeah. Like normal shit, you know. It was embarrassing, you know, to have my mom be jealous of me or yelling or it was just, you know, it's fucked up, man. Yeah.

You know? And I wanted that. So I was going to build that in spite. I was spiteful about it. And I wanted that and I got the job and got the job. and got the place. I found the girl. That's where I met my two son's mother, Jamie. She was sweetheart, country girl, traditional, had all the right values, and was humble, you know. And we was like your typical, you know, of course she was 16 and pregnant, but I was 18 years old, got a place,

basically hijacked rides. I found a place that was on the route with some guys on a crew that I knew were going and I started it. And I think I had that place for maybe six months before we had to move in with her mom or there was some issue with work or lost her job. She had my first son, Matthew, in this little one-bedroom apartment that we had. Her mother gave us a car, a cutlass. You know, it was a nice little car. And I was driving it to work, drinking and driving every day, you know, framing. And we had that for maybe a month.

And I, you know, took it out after work one day and, you know, run the wheels off of it, tore up the transmission in it and had to basically broke down. When we went back to get it, all the windows were busted out, the tires were slashed, it was somebody to vandalized it on the way to Leonard Skinner concert or something. It's the best I could put together. So Matthew, I'm sorry, my bad. You're okay. I'm going to sit on them, okay?

So one of mom's boyfriend hooks me up with a car, like a little Ford escort, like within a couple days. I'm like, wow, you saved my life because I got a good job. I got the baby. You know, Jamie's there. She just had him. It was terrible too. I remember, like, I was so drunk the night that she was in labor that, like, she was trying to wake me up. And she walked down to the pay phone booth, like three blocks away, like from where it was.

It was like a quarter of a mile to call somebody to come and get her. Like, I was a piece of shit, like, for real. I was like a bad dad and a bad boyfriend. But I meant well. I was really trying to do the right thing for real, but I wasn't. I took the car that, you know, the savior car to go and apply for, I think we went down to like some commercial dollar building a Wendy's or something, me and a couple buddies.

We got an 18 pack on the way there. I dropped a joint in the floorboard, and I was getting it. And when I raised back up, we flipped the car three times and caught it on fire, rolled it, you know, crushed one of my friend's arm. He had like 13 screws in it. And the car just in flames done before the sun went down on the same day that I got it. Yeah. You know, imagine how, you know, and of course I had to come back with that news.

this place was like a real shithole of an apartment like there was cockroaches in there everywhere they were brand new too when we moved in but you were still 18 at this point right yeah okay 19 maybe 19 I'll give it a 19 because we had moved to another place in Mount Juliet and I remember that when I turned 21 was the first decent car that we ever had like I don't remember what It was, I think it was like a 94, maybe, yeah, like a 94 Ford probe, something like that. And it was clean. It was nice. It drove good.

It was a stick shift. And I took it out. 21st birthday. Shit-faced. Got a DUI. That's my second DUI. I got my first one back 18 when I was 18. I forgot to mention that one.

But this was DUI. Just added to the list. It's in there. Yeah. So this is number two at 21. First one was 18. And Jamie's aunt bails me out. out. My aunt bailed me out of my first one, the one that, you know, took care of me my younger years.

And this is when I started selling weed, like really, you know, on a higher level. You know, I'm getting like sheets of acid and quarter pounds and pounds of weed and reselling them to everyone that I'm working with. I'm actually starting to do good with it. we moved from there the Ford probe I think died on us and I ended up with something else I think we're riddles I got another house on a main drag with a boss we rented from the boss we lived in an old store on the highway which is place was really awesome it was like a nice party pad for a while Isaac is born this is my second son and we moved to one of the places where I think that we lasted the longest. I am 22-ish at this point. Matthew is around

four or five. Isaac is just being born. And Jamie has been working solid at like Cracker Barrel as a server for two or three years. And I have an indoor gardening operation that goes bad, very, you know, almost immediately. It was going good. a minute, but I ended up with my first felony at that point. I was trafficking 10 to 70 pounds of marijuana is what the charge was. And I got an attorney. Brody Kane was my criminal defense attorney. My aunt and my dad shipped in and paid him. And, you know, I ended up going to court and getting a suspended sentence, which means probation and you've got to go report and take drug tests. And I think like my first drug test, I just never went because I was dirty.

And so they violated me. And I absconded for like, I know it was at least three years, you know, three or four years. We had already had my first business at this time. And I was building these portable storage buildings for Home Depot. And I was doing really good. Like I can remember calling someone when I got my first like four figure check for our week's worth of work. I was really proud of.

but, you know, 22 years old, working for myself. I had a new truck at this time. Jamie went and got this truck in her name based on the money that I was making. And I think it was, what, 2000, 2001 right at this time. It was like a 99 truck. So it was nice to have that time, you know. And we end up moving further out to the country. I'm taking back roads and going back and forth,

driving by the police session. I get pulled over. I give him my brother's name. I forgot my wallet. I had a whole system. I keep my ID underneath my truck seat. And, you know, I got pulled over. I had a list of little, you know, skirt moves that I'd give them and aliases.

And it worked then. Now they can just, you know, Google your ass or something. So I end up getting caught, of course. I got pulled over one evening. had the boys in the truck with me. You know, Isaac's old, you know, three or four years old at this point. And, you know, old enough to be like, you know, talk. You're like, man, why the police taking you?

So you just come from the grocery store. So I'd have called somebody to come get all these groceries out of the back of the truck and come get the boys. And I went to jail and they basically said, you know, wow, you've been, you know, running from this for quite a while. So it was basically they were going to either reinstate my probation or put my sentence into effect, which is a three-year. sentence, prison sentence, felony with the state. And so my dad and my aunt, again, pitched in,

got the same attorney to come to represent me. And it's up to the judge. The attorney can only represent you so much on a violation. They can come in and say, hey, he's got these support systems. He's done this. This is what he's done and this amount of time. This is where he's at. You know, and it looks good to have that. So he ended up reinstatement. You know, I was in jail for 45 days the first time I ever really went to jail in my opinion. I had DUIs, you know, like an overnight or I think my second DUI was there for like four days and this time I was there for 45 days. And when I was in there, it only took like, it seemed like four or five days for me to get clean and sober and have all these great ideas and tell all my buddies in there that I was

going to give them a job when they get out and start a business. So, and I did. And when I got out, I did start that that business. And I also, like, at my third report date, the third month I was supposed to go in and take a drug test, I absconded again, right? Just stop going. So I had obviously a warrant on me then. I ended up violating on that. Me and Jamie went down this road, ended up with drugs, cocaine, you know, just pills, painkillers, and just ran. and into the ground. We separated. I went back and, you know, started dating like a high school

sweetheart from way back. And I ended up OD and I think I was maybe around 25, 26 years old at this time, maybe maybe a little older. And me and Jamie just kind of limped on back and forth. And she got like a place at an assisted living. And I just kind of, I kept trying to rebuild these places. I mean, at this point, we'd had, you know, five places to live. I'd lost it. We had started over again, you know, car, truck. Even when I got out of jail that the past time, the first time I absconded and got violated and reinstated, you know, it was on me.

I got the place. I got the car. I got me a truck. I started a business. I had the life going. And then it just crashes and burns. Like, keep going just like this, the whole way out, you know, up and down, up and And, you know, it's just crazy to me, you know, because I've started over so many times, you know, I've been through this.

It seems like it really is, you know, I feel, I really do feel like I'm crazy, you know, because I keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over and expecting a different result, right? And I think it's hard, though, too, when you don't have that foundation or stability as a child. So it's like you always had the work ethic. Like, that was always there. But then as soon as it would get good, it's like back down. Well, you don't know how to maintain it. Right, exactly. And these are the conversations that I'm having now with people who are talking to me is, you know, everybody's got a good start.

Yeah. But do you know how to hold on to it? Right. You know, what's crazy is I was just in the truck with my son the other day and he was like, I want to do this. He had tears in his eyes. You know, it was a really bad situation while we were even together in the first place. It was sad. But I was like, well, Isaac, unfortunately.

You haven't had the stability or the guidance of the supervision that you needed in your life. And I said that to him as his dad. It hurt me to say that. You know, I cried too. It was terribly. It was such a beautiful kid, you know. Really smart. It's really beautiful.

And they've had such a bad deal, a rough hand, you know. So me and Jamie, we end with a big, basically a drug bender. I decide I'm going to go move. with the girl that I'm with. We split up the stuff. She goes to the assisted living place where a mom and our sister live and I, um, you know, I'm bouncing around. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor

the victims by going beyond the salacious. in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcasts. I go get another place, get another truck, start another business, and I want the kids.

They can come live with me. Jamie's running the streets at this time. She was a virgin when I met her. She was the good, clean, wholesome, all-American girl next door. To me, she was everything, right? Because the mother of both of my kids, very sweet, always cooking and doing some type of family stuff, right? And now she's out, you know, looking for pills, hotel to hotel, trap house to trap house with and doing whatever, with whoever.

It's terrible, right? And so I lose this place and go on a tear myself. and end up almost, you know, going to prison for life. And I stopped myself and I got a little country house and got away from town. You know, I got the old truck running that my aunt and then gave me to help me start that business. And I got her a little car, bought it from, got it from my drug dealer, in fact, you know, give him, you know, give him 600 bucks for a little Kia. And so I was like, Jamie, I got this place, you know, it's out here, you know,

y'all can come out you and the kids can come you know it's here you don't have to live like this yeah so she has to come out there and hang out but didn't want me there right and i was like but i was like okay if y'all are safe and you're here i'll leave i had someone drop me off at a gas station i think i was there for like 30 minutes and i end up running like nine miles back to this place and ended up there there she is passed out half naked there's like crack pipes there's some jerk laying over the top of her and Isaac laying in the bed beside her and like I snap I end up you know kicking them both out in a very very violent way and um for next few days man I'm out there with like photographs in the in the floor and my aunt can't you know I cut my wrists my aunt came by and

I'm got blood just running down my arms like this and I'm trying to hang curtains in this house like I just all the way lost it you know and so we had like this uh intervention moment then and I was you know walked away I got rid of everything I called a friend in Nashville I went to go stay with him and got my act together you know at least got away try to clean up and and accept that it was it was done with so I talked a friend of mine coming up I worked for a company I knew that installing doors one of the high rises downtown and I was like like they're in a bidding war with this other building downtown, the Adelisha. I think Taylor Swift has a penthouse in there.

And we end up, I said, look, we can get this contract. All we need is like $1,500 to go get workers' comp, general liability, and a business license. And we can get that money if we go over here and do this deck surgery. But you have to quit your job and I have to quit my job, and we have to go all in and do it. We can do this in like a week. And we did it. We went and did the deck surgery. We made like $3,800.

bucks we got the paperwork and the credentials and I made it all up on a little hotel office deal you know official letterhead and we made our bid on it and we got it and we got all these doors and it's like a $500,000 contract and I was like now we just need to figure out how to do it right you know I'm rocking a flip phone from you know prepay from dollar general you know that's all I have I have a car so I've got literally cases of ramen noodles and water in the this apartment in this high rise, you know, and 30 days out on pay. So we had to really tough it out. And we did. I got guys that come in that had their own tools. You know, we're setting these doors 30 a day at like 80 bucks a pot. So it was, we were cranking them. And we made it. We made

it to the top from like floor six to 13 of this place and got our first check. I paid everybody back. I think it was 30 something thousand dollar check. Wow. paid everybody back. You know, like, okay, this is what we're going to do. Boom, boom, boom. Of course, I've been just toughing it out, going days without showers in the middle of July, you know, just coming in and just killing it. And, you know, I'm still on the run at this point from not reporting.

And I'm like, I'm getting it all back. I'm building a company. It's going to run on its own while I'm in jail. And when I get out, I'm going to have all this money. And it's going to be perfect, right? I'm going to get my sons back. That's the main thing. and so I called a friend of mine and I was like, you know what?

I'm going to, I'm going to celebrate a little bit. So I went back to somewhere close to back of my neck of the woods. I went to like J.C. Pennies and like just literally did the Jack Reacher change in the trash can through everything in the trash can. Put all brand new on. Got a brand new Verizon phone, you know, a watch, you know, you name it. I was good to go. So I sat there and had beers at Logans until this chick come and got me and she drove me

right into the police. She literally had them waiting for me. For 50 bucks, she turned me in. And I did, they put my sentence into effect that time. So it was over. I missed the contract, missed the money, like, ruined everything. And I did probably, I think I did eight or nine months in there before I paroled out. And I was, I terrorized it.

You know, I was just like, I was young, you know, so I terrorized the jail. We were like the top two tier first people moved into, we did, I did most of my time in the hole, you know, most of the time in there, like being a complete jackass to the police. Even now when I went to go, you know, speak at court since I've been out, I advocate for recovery and reentry. And, you know, I went to go speak at the drug court to some of the people in there. And there's two officers in there who are probation officers now. And they're like, Matt, remember me? Remember you used to throw stuff out the door out? I mean it's Brown. I'm Officer Brown. It was cool, right? You know, but I get out of there.

My aunts on my dad's side have a place of one of their rental properties or a house that's been in the family for a while right in the middle of Mount Juliet. I get this place. I'm by myself, you know. Jamie has full-fledged with another guy. They're living together. The kids are there. They're doing drugs together. They do them out in the open, you know, celebrating them. I'm like in front of these the kids, at least from, you know, I'm not trying to justify anything that I did, but I was always a closet addiction for me, you know. It wasn't anything that I ever celebrated or wanted to do was more like punishment for me, except for a weed, you know, that was more like relaxation.

But I hated the way that they were raising the kids, encouraged them to be, you know, bad guys and to just, I don't know. I just feel like they needed more structure and guidance, you know, supervision. Anyhow, it was my mission to build a wholesome life that was bulletproof that they couldn't, you know, they would end up dropping the kids off on my doorstep with what I was planning. And some things went on there with my cousin had to move in and he was doing some stuff that I felt like was threatening my freedom. So I left and I had a girlfriend for a few months. It didn't pan out and that's when I met my second wife.

And I married her, you know, she, her parents, you know, they had like this commercial, vehicle leasing and sales company. I worked for them for a while because I did a like a little backyard project for them. He talked me into getting a job. I met her. We married up and we're together for like five years. After we were together for just a few months, I this, my son's came to live with me. I had her kids, my kids, and we all made it happen for about a year or so got them. Great schools, great structured environment, you know, picking them up, we were all about picking them up, dropping them off, taking them home, me working, and then the economy crunch, 2010, just the bottom fell out of the whole, you know, construction trade industry. There wasn't a job. Trust me, I've had

like every job. Like, I've worked for the best. I've drove the best trucks and the best shirts. And, you know, during this story that I'm telling here, I've had great opportunities. I've built army bases and federal courthouses and some of the coolest projects that you could ever imagine right and i've done most of it by myself it's all been about me like i'll work for somebody for a minute but the minute some jerk tries to tell me how to hold a drill or a hammer i'm like man i've really got to start working for myself yeah you know what i mean it's hard so um especially when you feel like you know what you're doing that you can do it you know um so the bottom falls out and I, you know, result back to what I'm, I know there's always a fallback for me is selling drugs.

And this point, you know, I have people, I've been to jail a pretty good little bit, so I'll have some, some resources that I can reach out to there, you know, and, you know, I can, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 50, 100 pounds of weed. I can remember one time I went and picked up 75 pounds of weed somewhere in Kentucky, and I got back to the place, and I realized that the tags of the truck had fallen off. in Kentucky. We drove all the way back with no tags on the truck and like 70 plus pounds we had in the back of the truck. Oh my gosh. It's funny now. It would have been funny then, but it was like that all the time, you know, guns, this, that danger. And I've got the kids,

you know, and I, somebody wore a wire. I got a charge out of that. It was a felony, one count, one sale, one pound. All that I, I've got. touch. I was like, all right, it's over. I had an indoor gardening operation then, and I completely, like, dismantled every bit of, like, a secret wall in the house, you know, and cloning chambers and fish tanks and the whole night. It was great. And so our marriage ended up, I did my year. I ended up doing, I violate again. I'm on the run. Remember, I made parole from that same charge from when I was 21. I made that parole, and I violated somewhere about the time where I left the aunt's house

and met the girlfriend before I met the new wife. I had already violated. I told her a few months in, and she's like, well, cross that bridge when we get there. And we did, and I crossed it, and I was in jail for about 13 months. She wrote it out. She took the kids to school. She wrote me a letter every day, visited me every day, and was a straight, right? you know, did it. Then I got out and we did great for a couple of years and then it just all

crashed and burned. She had an affair. I ended up on drugs and I lost it all again. We left. We had the move. It didn't pan out for like six months. We had this place that we never really moved into, never really moved out of. You know, I know she was still seeing this guy driving back and forth to see him and I just, you know, drowned my sorrows. Of course the kids became, you know, seat now and it just like all just fell right through my fingers you know and um it's crazy really looking back at it you know i it's just crazy going back you know and seeing how many times i've literally like did this like started over yeah started over and each time it's like i'm doing it all you know i'm you know they didn't get a car and go in you know we weren't partners doing this i'm like hey got the

got the car got me a truck got the business going all I need is you yeah you know come let's do this I almost feel like an idiot you know like obsessive about something you know I mean um so anyways um I go on this tear right just I say fuck it and end up in jail I'm driving on suspended charges and just all these little misdemeanors racking up on me all the time theft charges this and that and uh i do some more time county jail and um i'd get out while i'm in county jail this time i i developed a plan so each time i went and got locked up i've had a plan right i get out i'm going to do this and um i this time my plan is to like i'm only doing creative stuff when i get out i'm not going to go work for anybody i'm doing murals when at christmas time comes

around I'm painting windows. When Halloween comes around, I'm like carving pumpkins. And in meantime, I'm going to go to a pill meal. I'm going to get like some good dope and I'm going to do some and I'm going to sell some and this is going to be the life. I'm going to find somebody that likes to do that shit with me. My kids are old enough. I'm cool with this. Yeah. Right? So I just, I like relent to the life. And to me, that's like it feels like I'm losing my religion. You know what I mean? That's the way. That's the way it feels. Yeah. It's like, that's not me.

That's not what I was made for or are supposed to do at all. I'm supposed to be like, I mean, like a family was my identity. It's like, I mean, do you know what I mean? I do. Yeah. So it's like, who am I? And I figured out who I was, you know, I was like, I had this girlfriend, you know, she was a full-blown alcoholic when I met her.

So she was kind of like the person that I kind of nursed back to health, at least to me. I felt like I had something to take care. hero. You know, my oldest son had lived with his friend when I got locked up and he was in a good situation. And I even felt like, you know what, against my wants and my missing him and loving him so much, he's in a good situation and I'm not going to drag him over here into my mess. Right. That was hard. Isaac, same thing. He was living with his nanny. Jamie is still buck 50, buck wild, going crazy out there. Like still just balls to the walls. Doesn't even

look the same anymore. Right. It looks like. a different person. Did she have a relationship with your sons at this point or no? Yeah, she was very sweet. She's always around them, but she was out there. Okay. She was in the streets most of the time. Yeah, still doing her right time. I'm not saying she's in the streets, you know, she was still just not really, she wasn't trying to fight her addiction. Yeah. You know, I never really had a thing for meth or any kind of ephetamines and stuff like that. I don't think I'm better than anybody else, but just seemed like that stuff really tears people up worse than anything, you know.

And that and the painkillers. I mean, I would take painkillers. Sometimes even when I'd run out, I'd call her and ask her if she'd know where to get some, you know. And we were cool. We were friends. Once we stopped fighting over the kids, you know, after my marriage, you know, fell apart, we all kind of just tried to help each other out. Sometimes we'd even hang out.

We'd all get together and hang out. Right. When I was married, some of our best, my best Christmases that I had, we called it the X's. and my wife, ex, and her kids, so they didn't have to fight over the kids. And then Jamie and her boyfriend, his kids would come over. And I was like, everybody's exes

and everybody's ex's kids had Thanksgiving. And it was great. Nobody thought about where we were going. We did it like two years in a row. Anyhow, I'm with Jessica. Everything is just kind of, you know, it's warm and fuzzy, you know. It is what it is.

Matthew asked to come back and live with me. I found this little single wide trailer out in my country, and I built a porch around it and fixed up the inside. It was really cool. Like you pull up to this thing, and it looked like a hunk of jump. But when you walked in, it was like, wow, this is pretty nice. It was cozy. Yeah.

It was cool. I had, like, built-in speakers. It was really, really great. And so he came in. We fixed him up a room and covered up the whole wall with, like, circuit boards and LED lights. and even Isaac was talking about coming to live with me, you know, when he graduated. And during this time, this is 2014-ish. I had done the bid, the last bid, got out, met Jess, and we, you know, hung out.

I'm doing the pill-mill thing every month. I'm doing my plan, you know. I made the signs. I did the artwork, you know, was just getting through it day-to-day. I had started working for my uncle as a superintendent for this outfit that had been around forever. I should have been doing this from day one. He'd been this guy for like 30 years as a subcontractor. And, you know, I got in with them and, you know, I jacked that job off.

I had a truck that would barely run. And Jessica gets pregnant. She's pregnant with, we go to the ultrasounds. We'd find out it's a girl. And I'm like switch flips, right? I've got to get it together. I'm having a baby girl. This is a second chance for me.

I can have a family now, right? And so I build a business profile. I put it all together like broken mold. I took some pictures and photoshopped some logos and made a logo. First thing I did is make a logo and then photoshopped it to a website and some vans. And, you know, I'm like in business. I start scouring Craigslist looking for a first job. I got a couple of jobs.

And I got a project, did a few projects, a couple of decks. I think I did a screened in porch for someone. And I'm waiting for a big project so that I can make enough money to actually get the stuff that I need to actually. I didn't have any tools. I didn't have any equipment. I definitely didn't have the credentials. So I finally land a decent size, you know, project. end up with like a substantial deposit out of it and I get legit.

I get the insurance policies and the permits and the equipment and put tires on the truck and you know she's like four months from having the baby. We're getting it together. She doesn't even know what I can do. She doesn't even know this side of me. All she knows is this. I don't know how he does it. He comes up with money and dope every day.

You know, when I would get out there and work, I could figure it out. I could go hustle up three or $400 like legit. as a working intelligent human being, you know, whereas somebody else might have to go do something. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. Okay. So, you know, I was looking forward to being this.

And so I, the people find out my background, right? And they renege on this project. I don't have their money. You know, I think it was like 20, 20 plus grand that they gave me. And I already spent like 13,000. I think I end up giving them around $13,000. And I was still like $8,000 short. It was, these are big numbers to me.

You know, I'm laid on rent. I'm fired from my job. The pill mill doctor, like, already kicked me out of the pill mill because I tested positive for weed. They charged you like $400 for a visit too, right? And he gets, so when they kick you. you out, they only write you half of your scripts. So the $400, $500 that I'm paying for $4,000 worth of pills, I'm only getting half of it. So I'm already, you know, on the, on tilt, you know, and I come back to,

it was like, at least I can sell these pills, right? And I get robbed for them by some kids at a gas station, like literally almost killed me. I'm like trying to pull myself into a truck and out here, 30 something years old hanging out of a truck getting run the tire ran over me I'm literally looking at myself how do I not just get killed you know they even stopped they robbed me and stopped they got some other look the brake lights are on because they're like we killed him but you know I got up and started you know coming at him and they're like oh he's good let's go so crazy it's like a joke yeah right so then I've got all these driving on suspenders I got one in Brentwood and they're hollering a lawyer or jail, you know, I've got a felony sentence that I've been basically doing

on probation that was terminating early because they started it before I got out of jail. They actually put me into effect six months before I ever got out of jail, which is great. You know, in a perfect world, it's like, you know, I got a two for one. You know what I mean? I was doing time for this. And I also got probation time when I wasn't on the streets, you know. But it also comes with the restitution fund. It was just like three grand that didn't have.

And if I didn't have it at the end of this, they would put a warrant out for me. And then all that sentence that I did would be reversed and put into effect the way the system works. So I've got like these major legal and financial like just. It's out for you. Yeah. It's going down. So I'm like, these people are sending me these emails to that from their attorney. You're facing a myriad of consequences.

and I'm just sitting there like, God damn. And so I, that's when I decided that it was time for me to rob a bank. I mean, that's when I decided that, you know what? I'm not just going to sit here. I had a meeting. I literally had me, Jess, Matthew, Isaac wasn't there. But we sat there and had like a little family meeting. And I was like, look, I can't wait for, I can't sit here and wait for.

for a county cop to come serve a warrant on me. And me to go to jail, yeah, I sure I'll only go to jail for a week or 30 days or whatever, but they'll revoke my bond while I'm in there because this will get put into effect. Then these people will have a warrant out by then, and I'll be fighting this system for five to seven years. I'll be, and I'll have all this stuff racking up on me. I said, I've got to try. I've got to try to do something. And in the back of my mind, and I was having this conversation with a friend of mine the other day,

who's kind of been in this life. And he said that sometimes he knew he would go to jail. He knew he would self-sabotage itself because it was like a reset for him, you know? And this is like a real level-headed, mild-mannered guy, right? And he said this. And because I said, I was like, somewhere during this process of me planning this bankruptcy,

I'm like, you know, at least just going to wipe away all this bullshit, you know, if I go to jail. And it was almost something I look forward to. I'm full-blown pill addict. I'm pulled-blown opioid addict at this point. I'm even, like, dabbling with heroin. And that's when I started cutting it with fentanyl, too. So, you know, I think I might even, like, got someone with them.

It's, like, really, really tiny, and it, like, put me down. And so I go to Party City, still a wig, a Jimmy Hendrix costume, right? You know, I'm like, I don't need them looking for a, white albino looking dude. I need them looking for somebody that doesn't look like me. So my disguise is like, I got the eyebrows, I got the mustache, I've got the wig, I got heel inserts for my shoes because I'm like, yeah, they got the height thing. They're going to be looking for somebody six foot four, not five, nine. I make, I steal two phones from Walgreens. I had no money. So I had to steal everything. So everything that I needed, I had to figure it

out. Right. And I'm talking to Jess about this. She's like, are you really going to do it? And I was like, I think so. And, you know, come the day of, I wasn't even thinking about this. It was good Friday. So I was like, are the banks even open today? You know what I mean? So I had to like go up there and check and which they were. It's not a federal holiday. But I took like a DVD player and busted it up and got the circuit boards out of it, saved the little LED. lights and like taped them to the end of a battery, took one of the burner phones and took the face plate off of it and then put the numbers back on and made sure it light up so it kind of looked a little like gnarly and Frankensteiny poke some wires up in there for no reason.

Like it was connected to this, had these couple of these metal canisters and like a top of a ceiling fan thing and I, you know, strapped it with strap metal and put the circuit boards on top and laid the phone on top and assembled this, you know, real, we called it a movie quality prop. You know, it was a very nicely crafted, simulated explosive device. And so then I took it all back apart. So I wrote the day of, day before of, I took it all back apart and rebuilt Difty's piece in bleach to try to eliminate my trace. I was just trying to think, you know, how would I do this? How would I get away?

Right. I was going to do this and give the money and get it away. how would I get away? Well, first thing is you don't remember when police leave them. Second thing, you don't want them to identify you or your vehicle. And if they do identify your vehicle, make sure your vehicle isn't identifiable later. Right. That pretty much sums it up, right? So my plan was a call a diversion, get the police on this side of town, and go in, have them, you know, obviously I used an airbrush to paint my skin a different color. And so I'll go in and they're a six foot tall, you know, had some little glasses on.

It looked like an older black man, you know. And I'm carrying this, this bomb. I know. Like it's like, it's not funny, but it is. Like that's pretty creative. Look. Look, kids, don't do this at home. No, definitely not.

I'm not saying this is like, I'm definitely, you know, I didn't hurt anybody. I really hated it for the lady in there too. I wrote her like four letters from prison and told her that I never would have heard her. And it didn't mean anything that I said because I wrote a letter. I was like, look, I know where you live. I know your kids' names. And if you call the police, I'm going to see you. It's traumatizing, yeah.

Yeah. Everybody who worked in the bank didn't work there anymore after like two months. It was like part of my sentencing. It was a thing. You know, it was crazy. But, you know, I couldn't move. When I was going in there, like, I drove up to this place. I watched all the cops pass by.

And I was like, this is the moment. Like, I'm welcome to the moment. I'm here. I'm about to be that guy that did this. And that's what I'm sitting there thinking. Like, it was surreal, surreal, as it could be. Anything could be. I was like, I'm really doing this.

And I got out of the truck and I took like three or four steps and I turned around, like, uncontrollably. Right. And I just made myself, like, take one step. and take another step and looking at my feet. I just watched my feet. I watched my hand open the door. I just pretended like I wasn't myself. I promise you it was like an out of body experience.

Well, the thing is too is like you doing that took a whole different step into a different lifestyle, I feel like. Yeah, you were always involved in some sort of trouble or not so good news, but it was never that kind of thing. You know what I mean? That was just completely, I feel like even though it might seem like it wasn't out of character, it was it wasn't something that you've ever done before right so definitely it was I never would have done it right I made myself do it like I have to do this and it probably felt like too you didn't have another option at that point to me somehow and I've said this to to Brittany before you know that I

would be it would be very very hard for me not to say that I would wouldn't do it exactly the same again because it's been it's made so many I would never have been able to recover the way that I have now. I would never have been able to change the way that I have now had I not went through this this all this this situation right you know from the moment I decided to walk in there may have been now I'm not saying go do this or anything but you know going to prison for five years plus is you know it's either going to make you or Right. I was going to say too, like not that it's something to encourage or that it's necessary, necessarily to hit rock bottom, but sometimes it takes, like stooping that low

to come as high as you have come to where you are today. Because if not, you could have just been repetitive, like on that same track that you were before. Still now. Yeah. Who knows? Maybe dead, hurt somebody or, you know, fuck somebody else's life up, you know. It was, it was crazy. Everything that happened. You know, I walk into the bank holding this bomb. I set it on the counter. Pass a note.

I make it out of there. I ditch my car, drive back through the scene with, you know, after I have, you know, my partner picked me up and I'm arrested, you know, the next day or later on that night. I didn't get any money. Like the FBI told me the average take on a teller walk in pass a note bank robbery is $3,500 or $2,500. And I got like $3,565. And half of it was a bunch of like fives, like bait bills, like recorded bills that they keep for bank robbers. And how do they catch you?

So the burner phone, you know, right? The original plan was to go up like to a neighborhood away from mine and call the diversion call. And so this particular morning, my plan was to go do that and have, you know, my partner go throw away all the, you didn't kind of the trash, take the trash off, right? And she was having a bad day, bad day. So I was like, you know what? I'm doing this. So I'm like full makeup. It's cold.

I have to go outside and like rig my starter underneath my truck. I'm feeling really weird because, again, I'm full makeup, you know, fixing my starter on the truck. And I did. And as soon as I got out of there, I make the diversion call like 300 yards down from the house. You know, call 911. Oh, you guys got to get down there. There's blood everywhere. He's got a gun.

I got a, you know. And that was that. So I crossed the bridge at the interstate. I break the phone and throw it out the window. And so later on, I realized, like, in my paperwork and the motion of discovery and the investigation, I saw that they originally pinged where that call came from and looked for known felons in that area. Well, my mom's address is the first address that popped up.

They went to my mom's place, and that was that. Yeah, man. Yeah. I know that she told them where it was. She got a hotel. She's the one that put the hotel room I was staying at in her name. And, you know, if the FBI busts down your door and makes threats to you, your probably in a cave.

Yeah. So, I mean, I'm not really trying to put that one on her, but I probably would have told them to. I don't know. I definitely told them it was her,

but, um, no, um, um, um, um, so,

uh, I'm there with her. I knew that she was coming. I had her. I wouldn't, they knocked on the door and she's, you know, pregnant.

I was like, look, lay down on your belly, like put your hands behind you. because you're going to slam me down when you come in. So when she got laid down, I had them open the door. And, of course, they come in, like, chicken winged and, you know, what they do. And so he offered me a deal if I told him who this guy in this picture that robbed this bank was, right?

He was, like, really serious, like, in the movies, like Ace Ventura, like, who the fuck is this? You know what I mean? And he was pointing it. It was you, right? Yeah. It was me. Yeah, but trust up.

picture of me in full makeup and I was like I couldn't even hold back a smile. So at this point they didn't know that it was you yet. No, they think that I'm an accomplice. Okay. Yeah. And I was like, look, man, I will tell you who that is. I will straight up, like, take you to him right now. But you promised me I won't do no more than like two years and like a camp, you know,

like a nice work camp, you know, tennis courts and whatnot. He was like, done. And I was, all right, it's me. It's like straight up. here's the makeup here's the wig here's the thing it's in the truck it's over there and he was like yeah you can forget that shit and i was like they recorded it and everything they're like yeah no deal like you're anyways i was like look they had jesska and cuffs they had my mom in cuffs up where she lived and i said i'll give you a full confession if you just look i did everything

no one helped me nobody knew about it they don't even know what's going on they just know that i'm in trouble. So they went for that one and I did and I spent the night in county jail and the next morning a couple of U.S. Marshals came and got me and they took me to like a booking center like the federal courthouse downtown and then from there I went to a place in Kentucky which is like a federal holdover where you stay and fight your case and get sentenced and arraignment and that stuff can take six months to two or three years. And mine took like six months. It was like the most overwhelming evidence like clear cut open and shut being bang boom you're going to prison like and everybody was like man you went to prison quick because that's what everybody wants to do in there because they know

they're going right this poor very poor conditions in there very you know just just really the system is just really bad you think the feds would like have their stuff together but i don't know if you ever know anybody's been in the military or federal prison but like the food is like Even the packaged food says not for human consumption on it. Really? All of it. Yeah. It's like crazy.

It's like how are they feeding this to us every day? Right. The meat, the chicken, the potatoes, not for human consumption, not for human consumption. I don't get this. You think that it would be more organized. There's so much, so many inefficiencies. They're like 20 years behind on everything in there. So I get to, you know, I'm about four or five months into my little county.

you know, fighting in, and Jess is having a hard time. She's had the baby, you know, it's a little girl. And I'm, you know, just she's, she had to move in with friends. She lost the place. She doesn't have a car. She dried up, you know, during the pregnancy. She, you know, sobered up and dried up and, you know, became like she was, she was pretty. She got her color back and she was glowing, you know.

And, of course, after she had the baby, she, you know went back to drinking like every day waking up and drinking and um so i told her i said go to like the help center go to get on families first even if i owe them uh 15 000 in five years seven years when i get out of here it's worth it you guys are get a check you can get on assistance and you know you say you have the baby's daddy's in federal custody and she's like okay okay so she went and signed up for it and they came to prison and uh and swabbed me did a paternity test and you know that was that and like three weeks later i get like some letters in the mail quest diagnostics you know i mean like lab corp or whatever and open it up and it's my paternity test and like

all zeros like i'm like this means all zeros is like that means that there's no chance that i cannot be the father right so i'm like reading this wrong or something and it was like okay you know i'm not reading these numbers correctly. What does this mean? I don't know how to read it. You know, I'm thinking I'm reading it wrong because I never knew that she had even slept with anybody else, not even a clue. Of course, I mean, we didn't have a, you know, this wholesome, you know,

a fever, cleaver, you know, situation going on. So there's always going to be that toxic dysfunction type stuff going on. But I never really believe she had cheated on me. She might hung out somewhere too long or, than something inappropriate in my eyes, which I'm probably being paranoid or high or something. And so I maybe get two hours of sleep here, two hours of sleep. I put it under me underneath my pillow and I had this thing for like two weeks. And I'm telling you, I would wake up at the middle of the night and think that I read it wrong and like look at it and look at it.

I didn't even call her for like. And finally I called her and I was like, she knew the whole time. It's like she knew that it was his. I was like, why did she even go get to a paternity test? You were just hoping? And she was like, yeah, I really, really was. And I was like, yeah, I bet you were. Anyway, she's, she like, you know, lives in the dude's backyard and a camper and has since the baby was a couple years old.

And that's that. So did you guys have a relationship at all after that or that was kind of? Well, she, you know, I was hung up on her. That's all that existed or matter. Of course, I love my sons. and I wanted to see them and I felt so guilty and ashamed because Matthew graduated high school, like this happened like on Good Friday.

Of course, it was March, February, something like that. And he graduated high school that summer that May and I missed it. Isaac has started having problems. But our relationship basically ended the minute I robbed that bank. Okay. You know what I mean? I chased her. I tried to call her, but she was off doing something else the minute I disappeared.

Me, she was still in my heart for like a year. Right. Even after I found out that information, I was like, look, I love you. I love that little girl. That dude's a piece of shit. This can be our little secret. We're going to get through this. That was my stance.

And she was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. But I didn't accept this. But everybody around me, you know, the guy's in prison. they're going to shoot you straight. They're going to be like, man, let it go. Yeah. Like, you know, do your time. Take the lick, is what they say, you know.

And I finally make it to prison in maybe seven months after being in this place. And it was like culture shop. I, it's maximum security federal prison. And there's 13 of these, they call it. USPs, United States penitentiaries. And they are shaped like a large square with the housing units on the long, like a rectangle, with the housing units on either side of the longer side, and then the program areas on the short side. Like you'll have education, administrative, cafeteria on one end, and then you'll have like a movie room, library, church on the other end.

And the yards are in the middle. It would be like a soccer field, a football field, you know basketball courts so on and so forth handballs and then a trap around it so there's 13 them and they're all very similar to that layout right there and um they're gang run like you think oh well there's some level of supervision in there well on my intake the you go through the departments you know you go through psychology education um medical psychological full rundown right blood test, DNA test, the whole nine, right? They get real personal. And so one guy that goes through is like your gang coach or, you know, classification is what it is. So he's like, who you spend your time with? And I was like, well, I like to hang out with my girlfriend, you know, most of the time.

Sometimes the kids come over on the weekends and he was like, who are you going to be doing your time with here, man? And I was like, well, I'm just going to stick to myself if it's all the And he was like, just look at me like, dip shit. So I was, he was like, he threw his pin down on table and he was like, where are you from? And I was like, well, I'm from a little town named, called Lebanon, about 20 minutes east of Nashville. And he, uh, writes on his little thing. He says, go see Johnny D. in Bravo 6. Uh, you're with the independent white car of Tennessee and assigns me to a gang, right?

and gives me a shot caller to go report to. See, the way it works in there is if you're making, if you're being messy, you know, if you're too loud, if you're, you know, pushing the limits too much, I'll say you're still, everybody who has a job is expected to use that job to steal or, you know, if you work in the kitchen, then your hustle is probably going to be making and selling grilled cheese sandwiches. You know what I mean? On my side, you're going to be the guy's, I got sandwiches, you know what I mean?

So if you work in mechanics, then your hustle is going to be stealing solder and tape and firemaking apparatuses, fixing radios, anything that you can use your job for. If you work in facilities, then your job is going to be moving stuff, which is if Guy in, you know, Alpha 2 needs to get something to, you know, Delta 6, then he's going to go through maintenance and drop off that and have something moved from this area to this area, whether it's, you know, drugs, weapons, information, whatever. These USPs, I mean, this one in particular, I wasn't there a month, and I had seen, I saw one, I don't know if he was murdered or not, but he was stabbed up, red mist in the morning sunlight, like the deuses go off, everybody hits the deck,

and I thought these guys were playing. It looked like they were dancing because it was way off in the distance, and there's just one guy in the middle, and it was just, I can remember it. really surreal looking to me. I was still standing up and some guy yanked me down on the ground because after so many seconds, they'll shoot you. There's like a tower in the middle. There's a tower in the middle and there's towers on all the corners. And after a, there's a murder for, I think it was

over like a book of stamps. The stamps is the money and the feds, like literal stamps. You can send them out here on the streets and cash them in and get cash for them. And, And there's like one of the few things, or you can turn prison dope money or prison extortion money into real live bank account money out on the streets for your gang organization, family, or your, whatever you're doing. Yeah. And I didn't know none of this stuff. I'm like all the way, fresh-faced, like wide-eyed.

It was almost hard to take it serious. The bravado and the macho and the gang stuff. It was almost laughable to me. You know what I mean? I didn't take it serious. But it was very serious. Looking back, you know, I mean, one of the first things that they do, like the new guy holds all the knives.

The new guy holds all the contraband. Everything. Like, under my bed, a knife, a knife shot is like a real street charge in there. A shot is what they call an infraction. You know, there's level one, level two, level three shots. So like a level one would be like murder or, rape or something like that. And I'm,

this is, I don't sound like a real professional on it, but in the beginning, I didn't know anything about none of this stuff. Like when somebody said shot, I'm like, what's that? Like a shot in the ass or what are you talking about?

And, so, you know, moving forward, I'm like, okay, you know, I got the wet guys pulling me over,

like pulling me in, like, hey, come up here and talk to me for a minute. And I'm like, you do understand that we're a community here, right? You know, like trying to subtly say you belong to and are carried by and represent, you know, a certain, you know, group here. And I'm like, yeah, sure, if you need anything, man, holler at me. I got shit to do, bye, you know, that's kind of the way I handle it too. And they're like, I can look it back, I can see him going, yeah, he's got a rude awakening coming. So I'm an artist, you know, I'm like,

as soon as I get there, I'm like, yeah, I'm a tattoo artist. I've never tattooed, maybe one tattoo in my entire life. And I knew I could do it. You know, I just had to find some people who were kind enough to let me figure it out on them. Yeah. And in there, there's plenty of those, right? As subjects, yep. Plenty of them.

They're like, yeah, whatever, man, we'll figure it out, you know? You know, I already got nine bad tattoos, you know, let's just scribble it out if we make a mistake. And so I like tell them, and within the day, I've got motor. ink, needles, like stencils, reference material. And there you have to, you know, have plenty of, you don't have a computer or Google or anything to, so you've got magazines on magazines, on magazines, and stencils and custom art that people have made.

You've got this stuff that, any kind of reference material that you can get your hands. So I've got the stacks and stacks of stuff and all this equipment, like everything that I need. needed. So I start tattooing and I actually bust out a couple of good ones. I get lucky and the guy just wants like a, you know, a couple oozy's on this arm that are blacked out and these are like a Georgia G and, you know, there's some good starter pieces for me. And I was started working on this sleeve piece for a really light skin guy from Memphis and something was wrong with the ink.

Like you got to make ink in there a certain way. I didn't know about it. this. I was paying some guys. I started employing guys from other units to make ink, you burn ink, you take a candle and burn it underneath some type of hard surface and it creates a carbon to the lactate and you take this, this carbon and knock it off on like a magazine page and mix it with this, whatever the fake alcohol is, the beodle. And that's safe to go into the skin? Yes. So, I mean, it's sterile. Safe enough? it's safe enough. It's sterile.

So it's carbon. Okay. And it's the alcohol. Like, you don't want to mix with water because if you make, let's see you mix the carbon up with water, right? And then the water becomes stagnant or mold or still. And that's what happened here, right? Is this guy starts like, you know, tattoo looks great.

Like it's done. Man, it's going to be dope. And then two days later, he looks like he's got leprosy. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so what happens there is like, he may be, we may have a conversation. And I'd be like, look, man, whatever. happens, put some aquifer on it, you know, keep it covered up, you know, don't scratch it,

don't it, don't put triple antibiotic on it or anything like that, just let it do its thing. You know, we have a communication and exchange between us is very civil. Well, Jimmy Gangbanger that represents his community comes in and says, nah, man, that shit ain't going to fucking fly, man, I'm going to go have a conversation with dirty D over here that, you know, manages them and, you know, they're going to have to pay. So they just created a big stink about it. And then there's a meeting on the yard between these and these. And then they make a decision based on it, right?

So I'm just, I'm tattooing on everybody. You know, the way I see is I'm funneling money from another race into my race. That seems like I don't see anybody else doing that. What are you doing? You're borrowing money to go get high every day. You're not even doing anything. You're just getting high and going playing basketball every day. You know, at least I'm, you know, creating, that's the way I saw.

Yeah. And so paperwork, it's a big deal. Within 30 days, you're expected to have your judgment and committal and all of your transcriptions from your court situation. Guys in there are, a lot of guys in there are big conspiracies. In the feds, you can go to jail for hearsay evidence, which anybody, somebody could call you right now. Let's say that they're under investigation under the FBI for gang, RICO drugs, whatever, and they say, hey, I'm coming over to get the stuff to you on your telephone. And you say, yeah, all right, cool, I'll leave it on the porch. And two years later, he gets

indicted on a RICO case. I'll indict you on the RICO case too and convict you. Yeah. There's guys in there doing time for that, just like that literally. Like, they're rare. I've seen them. And some guys are maybe connected in some very subtle way. They don't need to be in there doing seven years in prison. You know what I mean? For a phone call. right now did they personally facilitate someone's death or anything like that no but they're on there and they'll charge 13 14 15 20 people on that riko stuff or those conspiracy cases so they want to see who the rat is you know they want to see who the tellers are and they want to see who the

child molesters are sex offenders you know because those people don't walk those yards they're a a sex offender or a child molester on those usp yards there are none because what happens is when they touch down and their paperwork. But even if their charge has something to do with the internet, they're not walking on those USP yards. They have an immediate, an immediate SOS on them, which is a smash on site. Like they're getting stabbed, murdered, anything goes.

And what happens is if you get smashed off the yard, whatever it is, you would think that the person who got assaulted or, you know, SOS would be the person that was being defended by the administration. But what happens is they go to the gang that smashed him and say, why did you just smash this guy? And they're like, oh, he's a rat. Oh, he's a child molester. Or, oh, he's too messy or making too much noise.

He's not allowed to come back on the yard anymore. And I'll be, all right. And they'll put a threat assessment on you, the person who is in there that got assaulted or whatever and say that you're a threat, you know, that you're a safety factor. Right? And then they'll just ship you to another place.

and you get networks. And this is basically what happened to me. My paperwork came in, and my lawyer wrote a sentence in there that says, you know, I was going to the pill mill. Well, when I got arrested, they said, you know, I was like, told them that I was basically addicted to opioids. Like, where are you getting your opioids from?

Oh, I'll go to a doctor, doctor, you know, so-and-so in Clarksville, Tennessee. And that's the sentence that was in my paperwork. Mr. Jones stated that he was addicted to opioids and went to go see Dr. Macaron at Such and Such and Such in Tennessee. And I had one of these guys, the dirty white boys, it's a big gang, right? I know it sounds like lame, but they're violent and they're hateful and they're racist. And I wasn't with the racism. I didn't like it.

It seemed kind of immature. Just wasn't my thing. Imagine the dumbest, redneckest, idioticest guy being your boss. That's what it was like. Yeah. Mad over nothing, always jealous, always in the sewing circle, always stir in the pot. That's how it is. And it's just like, man, I wish the black guys have such a cooler car.

You know, I want to be in theirs. So, and that's another thing. I know you probably keep hearing me say car, but I don't know if anybody else uses those words, but it's the first time I ever heard a gang called a car. Yeah. So they're like, you're with this car or that car or this. You may have a small group. It's just like you and some Christian brothers

or you've had some Muslim brothers or you may have like a big one, like the Serenios or Bloods or Crips or something like that. Those are all cars. And there's a little subcars inside of those cars. And whoever's the shot caller is, he's got the keys to the car. And when guys get into it

or different games get into it, they're going to crash the car. If you're being too messy, you're going to crash the car and they will kick you out of the car, aka smash you off the yard. Got it. And they have to smash you off.

the yard because if they don't smash you off the yard then uh you know s isn't have to write up a transfer order on you so there's airplanes buses and that are going all day every day transferring federal convicts from one institution to another with our new intakes people going out of the system people being classified in the system or people with them have smashed off of a yard or people who have crashed out themselves right and that'll happen a lot too is you'll have guys who have guys who who have, let's say they have a 30-year sentence, and they're like, man, I want to get to the ADX and Colorado, because they have single-man cells, they have TVs in their cells. And if I got to do the rest of my life in prison, I want to do it alone.

I don't want to do it with these jughead idiots. And they'll stab up somebody and keep going through the system, go through the Schmoo programs, which is like a three-year lockdown program, 23 and one, very tough, you know. And they'll do this. And it might take them three or four. to five years to do it. And they go through a lot of stuff too. Like the administration will do something that they call, I mean, this is a slang term. They call it diesel therapy. They will write up a bogus transfer order and you'll say you'll jump when you're, when you're transfer, you don't

just go from Kentucky to your destination. You go from Kentucky. Then one day you'll go to like three different states picking up other convicts and end up either in Oklahoma or Atlanta. which are transfer centers. And you'll be in there anywhere from three days to two to three weeks, depending on it's a holiday, or until they classify you, and then you're going to the system all over again, and you end up at your final destination.

So when you're in transfer, it lasts about three weeks, and then you get to your spot. Well, guys that are trying to manipulate the system like that, and it's obvious they'll never make it to their final destination. So they'll sit in transfer for a couple weeks, and then write them up again and then end up in transfer again and then in transfer again and then they'll say okay have you had enough okay then you're going to sit right here and then you know after

that you've had enough because you don't have your stuff you don't have no relation you know you're right you don't even have any communication your money's frozen while you're in transit like it's all like it's rough it's a rough it's a rough it's a rough way to do time you're basically starving you're shackled your hands are boxed on an airplane like it was crazy watching these airport exchanges and, you know, watching these guys in full military tacked out, you know, shotguns and machine guns and helicopters hovering above and an airplane parked there and two or three hundred convicts funneling out of an airplane, buses parked around in a perimeter, guys coming in, guys coming off, they do it in the ice and the snow, zero degrees, wherever. And you're standing out there

and khaki pants and a white t-shirt, you know, with 90 or 100 or 50 or 30. You know, in a line, you know, nut to butt, single column, you know, waiting for them to get you on, get you off, put you on. I went through that process like five times in my business thing. Yeah. So they smashed me off the yard. I was there for maybe a few months, and I ended up with like four crushed ribs, a crushed orbital socket.

I, like, had to pull myself. Luckily, I had a celly in the hole. I was in there for about three months. Mr. Oliver wrote me a letter. apparently I think my mom had reached out to him and told him that was heard or made a post or something like that and you know the guys the mentors vandalism he sent me some money you know

of course you can't buy anything in the hole but he wrote me letters and sent me a Christmas card it was really awesome you know and I hadn't had any contact with anybody I've been in basically incarcerated for about a year at this time and maybe maybe 14 months and he was the first like real letter or Christmas card like it was like i held this christmas card for like i still have it in fact um i got shipped to

the next spot was jackson mississippi and i was there like uh for like one day i touched down i spent the night and sell with this insane and crazy psycho m fer that was like shooting something and you know it was like homemade uh hyperdermic needle well they basically stole the needle off of like a diabetic needle and took some type of like they call it a binky in there have you ever heard of one do you know what it is so we all know what a binkie is right so it's like a thing like a it's it's a little mini syringe so they'll take like any drug whether it's fentanyl or a suboxin or something like that and lichify it and draw it up with the binkie and then inject it in the rain of course it's a hit or miss right i watched them do it like three times from underneath my covers like this right

here, scared to death, this guy's going to murder me in my sleep. Right. And the next, so they have the email system in there, right? So when you get a target or you're labeled or you're, so they said that I was hot, right? Which I wasn't, I wasn't a snitch. I didn't have no defendants on my case. I didn't snitch on anybody, right? But that was the target that they put on me because they didn't want to say, hey, this guy's

loud and messy. We didn't give him a shot. We didn't even try. He has me, they could have did that. Anyhow. So I get to this new place. They put me in a cell with the dirty white boy shot collar. That's what this guy is.

I mean, I can't believe I made it out of this whole experience without a face tattoo because everybody in there is like neck up everything. Chins, nose, eyebrows, you know, I'm, you know, all cool. You know, I even considered it. You know, let me give me a neck piece. here but uh anyhow this guy's looking super uh super gnarly and uh super dangerous and violent and i am scared to death so um i uh the next morning i get up and i figure that the guys they already knew that i was coming you know i'd already been hey there's they know where you're going before you even leave

so you may i might have left the first place that i was which is in kentucky and went to the transfer center before i make it to where i'm going through this email system and then being connected to the to the guards like they are it's it's all about that whole gang information exchange there are people or girls that sit it here and they're like a third party they'll sit in front of their computer and they'll get a message from jim going to johnny over here from this prison to this prison and she'll be that third party exchange system and help them communicate you know as a as a middleman and even allow them to there are even services out there where convicts get out and have a message forwarding system where you can literally send

an email and send it to a phone number. It'll translate it to a text and send a text message somebody. It takes like two or three hours to go through, but you're still sending a text message. It's like having a phone texting someone. So they call it networking. So basically I was networked. But I mean, I'm pretty sure that I was, because I wasn't going to stick around to find out. So I immediately like checked in. And that's what they call it in there. They call it checking in. Guys are going there, run up big dope bills,

for I get a bunch of stuff front into them, and then check in with it. It means say they fear for their life and go on to protective custody and then refuse to program, stay in the hole, and then get shipped to a new place. And they'll do their whole bid like that.

Touched down in a new place. And before their jacket catches up with them, they'll do it again. And they call them check-ins. In my case, of course, I was just trying to stay alive at this point. I didn't care what anybody thought.

And I heard of an announcement, new arrivals to laundry. So I was like, boom, out the door. I went straight to the laundry. The first dude guard that I saw, I said, hey man, I'm pretty sure I got networked. And these guys are going to probably kill me today because of some bullshit. I'm going to for my life. I'm really sorry you have to do this today, bud, but I need to go to the hole. So he took me to the hole.

And I was in there for Jackson, Mississippi, terrible place. It was insane. Everybody fishing underneath the doors. It looked like a spider web in the hallway. The guards don't even care. They step over it. Like take, you know, big, you know, goose steps over all these lines. Like, there's like a whole, like, track system.

The guys have small cars. They slide underneath the door to be able to trade, you know, stamps, food, drugs, whatever, communicate. They'll call out hits from in the hole, you know. Anything. You think that stuff. doesn't go on you know when someone's just locked in a room yeah for years but they're like in there calling shots yeah most of the time that's the guys who are in there too is like yeah what are you in here

for man you know everybody's hollering out the doors of the bee holes and um i get a couple more letters from from mr oliver while i was in there it's really great i didn't know what i was going to do i was like wow am i going to have to do my next seven years in my hole and um they end up making me get a celly and i was riding pretty good for a couple months without a cellie and they finally they put this psycho dude in there right and um he's all you know yelling and screaming all the time and constantly like losing his losing his temper for no reason like it's like man crap food comes to the hole every day man keep it together yeah and it's bad in there too because they give you like milk you look forward to milk because it's got some kind of vitamins in it rest of the time it's just

potatoes or like chicken shredded raw chicken not raw but no season just shredded chicken and potatoes that's it no seasoning no salt and pepper just about every day biscuits and gravy on Wednesdays you know stuff like that um but an apple or just a milk that isn't spoiled big deal in there months and months are in there doing this and I think I was in there for maybe six months or so I make it I get put in by psychology he has been talking to psychology about this program called the reintegration housing unit and there's only one of them in the entire federal system and they only let like 40 people into it every so many months and I was like can you please please put me in for this because my points are like two points over max and if I

figure out a way to point down so every year they reclass you and it's possible your points could go down or they could give you something called a management variable which is basically like your point is still here but they class you as a medium and if you get an infraction it can go back to a 27th you know there's all these little classification things that they have in there so i put in for it i get it right my mom and dad and i've been like writing uh who is it blackburn the senator or congressman you know, trying to, you know, get me to some type of drop yard. They've got three drop yards in the system where they, they're for gang dropouts.

If you drop out of a gang, it's basically like saying, you're telling on your gang. I'm in fear for my life. I'm telling on this gang. Dropouts are just as worse as, you know, like it's being hot or a child molesters. So they have yards for child molesters. They have yards for gang dropouts. And there's three of those.

I was only, man, at least they could maybe get me to a dropout yard. You know, I could walk there. I could do my time. I could program. I could work out. I can, you know, just at least get it over with. Yeah. Instead of being in the hole.

Like, you know, the hole was tough. You had to figure it out, you know, or you just, you're in there. You're basically in a bathroom, trap with another man. You don't even get out for a shower. There's a shower in there. You're not getting out. I make it to the program. It's in Florida.

It's the biggest FCC in the, and the, in the, in the country. It's got like eight prisons at it. It's owned electrical substation, water treatment facility. I was a rock star at this place. The counselor just let me run. I did like a 40 foot by 150 foot mural. I muralized every single room in this place.

It was just one unit inside of a huge USP, like I started out. And everybody else in this USP basically hated and wanted to kill anyone in this unit, right? Because everybody in this unit had either, you know, there was some real, you know, really bad people in there, like, that had really done some reason to, to be in this place. So it was, it was tough there. You just how to keep your blinders on. You know, they took the, the unit and made, like, put all the facilities in there. It was a library in there. There was a

education place in there. There was a barbershop in there. There was, so there was even, like, a photo booth in there. We didn't get no visits, but once a year they did something special and they allowed us to have a visit. And the only visit that I had for the entire prison stay, my grandparents happened to be in Florida near this place and they came to see me like around Christmas in 2017. And it was really great. I got to have a contact visit. We watched a movie. It was really special. It was great. And I made it through the program and I did so much in there. I had like a a little show like it was it was really really cool and um we when when i made it through the program i um i made i made medium security i got shipped to kentucky and i was looking for my

shot caller or who's looking for my paperwork for like two weeks i went to the yard i'm like hey man here's the deal uh you know i didn't tell on nobody blah blah blah i'm like look man we don't give a fuck you know and I was like no for real where's it you know let me talk to whoever need to talk to I know it's a test or whatever they're like for real we don't care nobody here cares do your time bye and I'm like it took me a month or so to get used to that but once I did I got a job at a cell win factory I worked for a few months just so I could figure out how to send some money back home to Isaac's grandmother so that she could go buy a phone to give to him so I can talk to him you know my son and how far in was this into your

and stay? This was two and a half years. About two years and three months. Okay. I'd finally make it to medium security and went to this program. And I stayed there for about two years. I got really good at tattooing. I was top choice on the yard for any artist.

I tattooed on VG, you know, the cash money guy. I tattooed on several people that, you know, like high profile, you know, people that, you know, people that were in there. I was really proud of it. I did a lot of movie covers, bookcases, album covers, you know, any idea, I would go and meet with guys and sit down with them, have an interview with them, you know, when were you born, what are you like? Like I could get a feel where, you know, guys in there in the feds, nobody's, you know, from home. Right. You got guys from Chicago, guys from Florida, guys from Tampa. But that's when you get there. You look for guys that are from, like for me, I look for guys that are from Middletal.

Tennessee and those are your home boys. That's where the word even comes from is from federal prison. It's because, you know, you look for your home boys when you're in there. It's a serious word in there too. Anyways, did great. Everything was going good in there. And I was like, look, I got about two years left. I want to program this out. The reintegration housing unit, you know, is where I found this. It's a where I changed. It's where my transformation started. And I, you know, I read these, like the Stephen Covey Seven Habits book. And it led me to, like, the Robert Green books, you know, mastery. And they led me down, we did a program in their, they named it the Genesis program, but it was basically the seven

habits course that they offer, like in the colleges. And we did it and lived it and, you know, walked it, ate it, slept it every day and held each other accountable and, you know, lived like that for like eight months every day, everything that we did. And it gave me an outlook where, you know, I'm building a plan and I want a new life when I get out. But to me, you know, what's your end game? So I kept thinking about my end game. You know, of course, I want the money, you know, and like, what do you do with the money? Everybody, because you can't do it for the money. Everybody in there, believe it or not, says, you cannot do it for the money. You cannot do do anything good just for the money. There has to be, you know, purpose and principle for your end all,

be all. Because when there ain't no money or the money's bad or the money's all good, then what? So I would picture myself with everything sitting in the place where I had everything that the money was going to get and I was just chilling by myself. And I was like, yeah, that's not it. There's something missing. It's, you know, it's people. It's changing lives. Leaving something better than you found it, right? So, I mean, that's, and that's the philosophy that I adopted. And I was like, I want to help people. I want to change people. I want to inspire people. I want to change people's life. I want to be a servant, you know, because that's the only way that you'll ever be full. You'll always be looking for this hole to fill and, you know, trying to fill up an unfillable cup,

you know. And that's what I've been trying to do my whole life. is just try to fill up this unfillable cup. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. You know, I was almost sad because I was, oh, I wanted the money. But it was warm, you know, it was perfect. And I knew that, you know, living a principal-centered, unselfish service stance was going to serve me more. more than anything else could.

Yeah. So I drew the DoSelf Design Center. You know, I, you know, this place, you know, which that, I mean, that's where I'm working all currently, but that's where its inception was. And I drew this three-dimensional space that had basically like anything that you would see, like a contracting firm. And it had interns and people connected to it that come out of prison and want, to learn a skilled trade or get their life together and have a real future, you know,

and also earn a competitive wage while they do that. You know, it's hard to go to school. You come out of prison and you want to say, oh, well, I'm going to go to truck driving school or electrical school or this school or that school. Even in prison, there's no schools. They say you go to HBA school or you can do this or that, but they say that they exist, but they don't. What happens is, is like, in this system, there's one prison who has that.

and you just got to figure out a way to get there. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're not at every prison. It might be a sewing factory. I worked with a sewing factory for a few months. Anyhow, I developed this program. This is where I want to be.

How am I going to get there? Okay, well, I'm pretty sure I'll have to put in my dues and work and do my, you know, put in my hours. You know, I'm skilled. So I believe that I would be able to get there, you know, as a contractor. what I do best, you know, so that would be, you know, that time, well, how am I to get there? Well, I have to get a job. I have to get a birth certificate. You know, so I kind of reverse engineered that time period down to the moment I get out of prison. And so what do I do in between there? Well, I work on the way that I talk. I work on the way that I communicate

and experiment with my interactions and with human beings and having discipline, living in close spaces with very tough situations, you know what I mean, and getting along, learn how to have that discipline and understanding and learning and understanding people and having compassion for them listening, you know, looking to be, looking, seeking to understand and say to be understood, you know what I mean? I think, too, in a way, it sounds like you had to force yourself to get through the uncomfortable, and that kind of goes back to, I feel like, before prison, because it seems like the comfortable was the restarting constantly.

And as soon as you would get comfortable, that was uncomfortable to you. So it was almost like a restart again. Yeah. So it was like getting used to that. Yeah. You know? Exactly.

You know, it's funny you said that because I, every, I call them disposable relationships, you know, because they just weren't real, you know, drugs and using everybody just kind of sucking off of each other. Those aren't real friendships or relationships because if they were, they'd still be around. Absolutely. Yeah. It washed away every disposable relationship and it forged real ones with real mentors and real

solid, positive people that were a benefit and a source of support and encouragement and inspiration to me. Mr. Oliver had another friend of mine that was just a couple years older than me. He went on to the Army. He was in this big friend group I had in my partying days. And he, you know, he's got 60 guys under his command. He's a Patriot missile operator. And he's all about, you know, the principal and the discipline.

And he wrote me. He sent me pictures from places he was stationed, Dubai and this place and that place. and, you know, a real true, you know, a man's man, a stand-up guy who's going to shoot you straight and tell you the business, whether you want to it or not. And I respected his word and his counsel while I was in there. And, you know, I had another friend of mine that is a family man that I felt like had this perfect, well-rounded little mastermind group to build my, you know, my core, you know, and I used it. I have another friend that graduated the same year I did.

He went on to build a successful dental practice. And this guy wrote me, took the time. He's got a busy life, you know, wife, kids graduating into practices and wrote me and ministered to me and prayed for me and sent me money. And even to this day, he's looked out for me. He's sent me customers and contracts and, you know, whether it's out. accent walls or kitchens or built-ins or shelves, they're still out there like cheering me on,

got my back. He's even helped me out of a couple jams, you know? And I forget there was one more. I have a couple of, I know I'll remember in a minute, but I have this great mentor group that's still there. You know, it's perfect. And, you know, Mr. Oliver was great. He's been in all these great situations.

wore all these hats and he's taught me how much a person could actually do when they want to. You know, he delivers meals on wheels, goes to Tai Chi on Thursdays, county commissioner, head of like the beautification committee, and I'm sure there's like five or six more. Amy's got his own little personal projects. And then does all these other things like, look at all this stuff that a person. It's like a great example, right? Yeah.

And so to go back, to my timeline, I end up putting in for the RDAP program. I know I'm not going to get the year off my sentence like everybody else does because I'm classified violent, but I go, I do it anyways. The place that they ship me to is Mary in Illinois. It's the place that they replaced Alcatraz with in the 80s. And it is probably like, I prayed for a hydrogen bomb to drop on that place while I was in it several times because the people that are in there are like all.

Dateline to catch a predator, superstars, 75% of the population in there, except for the program unit, where they ship people all over the country and put them in this program unit. The rest of the population is some kind of, I mean, once I've completed this program and, you know, bounced the quarter off the bed

and ironed my clothes and said the affirmations and lived the life and walk the walk, psychology-based criminal thinking errors, you know the whole nine for 13 months and then I put in my transfer to go back to my parent institution and they wouldn't give it to me so I crashed out I got in some little weak fight and went to the hole and I was like put me in for a 325 under the system at this point I'm a pro right I put me in for a 325 transfer back to my parent institution it's in rule book number blah blah blah right here was like okay sure Jones we got you uh 40 you know 30 days later I'm sorry

three months later uh your transfer didn't go through Jones you have to put it in again we'll see in 45 days so i did this for another 13 months by this time i've got like about nine months left if i get 10 months of halfway house time i'll get out of prison and not about nine months something to this effect um i'm a few months off on either way one way or the other here but it's beside the point anyhow i was in the hole for about a year and um doing this this game. Finally, I just gave up. I mean, I even got a job down there. I was in there long enough that I had outlived anyone that came in or went out of the hole. There's guys, yeah, I've been in here three months. Yeah, I've been in here four months. You know what? Jones, how long have you

been here in here nine months? And they gave me a job. I finally was like, you know what? I'm going back to the yard. I'm not going to spend my last several months locked in here like this. You know, so I went back. And the, the, the, the, community had ostracized me. And I had a friend of mine that I walked with and hung out with. And he was a vice lord shot caller. And he gave me, he let me be his sally. You know, he was my friend, still my friend.

And COVID hit it. We all got locked down. And it was like that for about the last six months or so. We quarantined what got out. And I made it to the halfway house in Nashville, Tennessee. So the rules with feds is like, I know you probably may have heard or know about halfway houses a little bit. It's usually like some guy who's been approved and has a house and he basically fosters felons, you know, from the system. He gets a check,

a subsidy or whatever from the state and they house so many. So if he gets, you know, X amount of dollars, it means he's got to have 10, you know, foster felons in that with him, right? Well, in the feds, it's federally maintained. and federally governed, you know, more, it's way more official. It's more like a facility. It's like prison. There's count time.

There's lockdown time. There's lights out. There's dinner time. There's curfew time. There's shots and infractions and dues and don'ts. And it's just like a big open dorm with bunks in it. Yeah. And there's usually a private company who will manage that on an official basis through the Fed.

And they get money too. you know and it's like um it's like it's basically the same situation as like a foster parent right so you have foster parents who uh get kids coming into their house and they get a check from the state they don't give a shit about the kids and they just use the money and you know the kids can be you know in a bad situation in a manipulated situation and these um halfway house situations they're they're like that too you know and the first thing that they want you to do is go get a job. They want you to go work because they get subsidies. They get 25% of your check. I was like, wait a minute, no matter what you make. So if you go make two grand this week,

they're going to take $500 of your check. Yes, they are. So guys are in there coming out, trying to do good. And half the time, they'll just go get some, you know, BS Cracker Jack job at like Goodwill or, you know, somewhere so that, you know, you know, they'll just ride it out. These systems and educational systems and resources that are supposed to be in place are not there, you know, because everyone that's been entrusted with, you know, this responsibility to service is not doing it. They're manipulating it, right?

And that's what pisses me off. You know, that's where I'm at. That's where I want to take, you know, what I'm trying to do. Yeah. You know, I've done, you know, from getting out at the peak of COVID, in 2021 with nothing. Nobody would talk to me. Nobody would touch me with a 10-foot pole.

I couldn't even get my dad to loan me a hundred bucks for a tool belt. And I scratched it up. I worked for someone, rode with someone, got a truck, got the tools. A few months later, quit, started my own business. And even in the halfway house, you can't have a business.

You can't even have a vehicle. Now halfway through my halfway house stay, they changed the you can't have a vehicle titled to your rule and allowed people to actually get vehicles titled to them. But me personally, I had to get my first vehicle titled to someone else. It was a, and she was great. She helped me a lot. She was a friend and, you know, we were supposed to kind of start a thing together when we got out, but it didn't pan out, you know, for one reason or another. We didn't make it through that plan. And so I'm stuck here with a truck in my name. I even was going to start the business and have her as the C.O. of the business and me basically just

wear all the hats and be an employee in my own company. And so for a year, I fought for my name back after, so I'm fighting through all these obstacles and COVID and having someone answer the phone for me every day. So at a real job, they call, hey, is Matt at work today? Eight o'clock in the morning. Hey, is mad at work today? 11 o'clock in the morning. Hey, is mad at work today? Two o'clock in the afternoon. They'll call your employer like that and ask, yep, yes, he is. Yep, yes, he is. Right.

So for me to be able to run a business, I had to have somebody, you know, do that for me. You know, and I had called my guys, my mentor guys and my dentist buddy and he, you know, turned me on to a really good guy. He's like, man, if this guy knows how to get something, then he can. you know, spent some time in there. He's, you know, got his shit together.

He owned several companies. You know, they know him in there. He's credible. So, you know, if anybody can get you together, you know, Chris Rowland can get you together. And for, like, shoot, man, probably until I was off of, they call it, a home confinement. So what you'll do is your halfway house time is this much. But once you do so much.

lunch, they will allow you to actually go to your own home if you have one. But you still have to call them every move you make. So if I'm out here working, doing a job and I leave here and go to lunch, I got to call them and say, hey, I'm going to lunch. I'm going to McDonald's, leaving work. When I get to McDonald's, I say, hey, I'm at McDonald's. I'm getting lunch. And I'll leave McDonald's.

I got to call them, hey, I'm leaving McDonald's. When I get to my work, I've got to call them back again. So it's like 20 calls a day. I'm going to leave. So when I get home, I got to tell them. When I'm leaving home, I got a call and ask for a request, like a shopping move. Hey, I need to go to Walmart on Wednesday at 4 p.m. Can I get an approval to go to Walmart?

That's what home confinement is. And you just got to honor the process. You've got an ankle monitor on. Yeah. It was super tough. So I'm getting up and going to work every day. And I'm moving around a lot. And they're like, I said, well, it's part of it.

Well, I don't. They just stopped, you know, having my calls is like, I know he's working, you know. And I had some friends, you know, I didn't realize it at the time, but I had even, you know, one of the administrator assistant was looking out for me. You know, I'm actually so, you know, I'm thinking that, you know, this all was just like luck, but this guy was like, there ain't no way this dude is not at work. You know what I mean? And he was, he could have busted me at any minute, knowing what I was doing, you know.

And then this other gentleman, you know, has answered the phone every single day for like six months saying yep he's at work yep he's it work yep he's it work yep he's it work I could have been out there making a mess you know I could have been out there jerking off and doing something stupid but you know they they went to bat for me you know right and without that without them I wouldn't have been able to do any of this you know I was trying to take all the credit you know when I started this conversation and say I did it all and I couldn't borrow any money but it's been one miracle after another you know and I believe you it's because, you know, I haven't been doing it for the wrong reasons.

You know, I don't think that, I don't know if it was the family or the trying to hold it together or what it was, but, I mean, it's going on over three years that I've been released and I haven't crashed and burned yet. And it's usually like a 12-month tour. Yeah. You know what I mean? Well, I think, too, something that I was thinking about as you were telling your story is not everybody is going to have the perfect upbringing or have the perfect outcome.

You know, sometimes you're going to have to go through shit, sometimes way more intense and serious than others. But that shouldn't, I mean, I know this is like such a statement that everybody says, but that really should not define a person. And like we were saying before we started filming, if someone's going to judge you and define you for what you've done or what you've done. you've been through, especially when you've come out stronger and higher than what you were or what you've done, then they can go fuck themselves. And that's just my mindset. And that's the

truth because, like, you could have somebody that is, you know, might not have done the same things or half is worse, you know, as someone else has. But I feel like they might not be as hardworking. They might not have the experience that you have or that somebody else has. And I just feel like we live in such a judgmental world and what does judgment really do? You know what I mean? It does nothing but creates these walls and wedges between people. And I feel like someone like you, you should be what's the word? Like you should get credit in my opinion for where you are and what you've been through and how hard you've worked to be where you are now. Because if you're not, then we're just like minimizing the support that we should be providing to other people where it's

deserved. I couldn't have said it better. I mean, I feel like if nothing else that, you know, everybody goes through shit. And if it could be anything, I hope, I would hope that it would inspire someone to, you know, push through whatever kind of label or bullshit that they were going through and and figure it out. You know, I did this like, I can't even count how many times I just told you that I started over. And I think I even left some, a lot of stuff out, you know, and I'm not trying to say, hey, look at me. I made it. But what I want to do is inspire some people to come to come over here with me. Kind of piggybacking off of what you were saying. and sorry to interrupt you

but obviously your story is here to inspire people I feel like not only is it to inspire but it's to show your journey and I think that it takes a lot of courage and a lot of vulnerability to open up and say this is what I've done and it's pretty shitty and I've gone through some pretty shitty things but here's my experience

hopefully it can the thing is too is whether it's somebody that is in a rough place right now and it inspires them not to continue down that path or it's somebody that has already gone down that path and now they're trying to you know work themselves up and be a better person it can inspire them well if he can do it I can do it you know what I mean so it makes them feel like there's more people like them in their corner because I think one of the hardest things to do is to come out of something and come above something when you feel like you're all alone right or like you're the only one yeah or there's a big um

Big Red sign that says felon or a big red sign that says drug addict or... It's easy to let that define you, especially when so many people are just going along with it. Because it makes you feel like, well, why am I even trying if everybody thinks this way anyway? And you're even just, you know, they say there's like the support systems. And I mean, just for me, like I did great. and I met when I met Brittany earlier this year, you know, I was at a brewery and they were great and I don't really remember what hit it off, but I was looking for like some social media presence, right? She's like, oh, her mom was going on and on. She does this and this and this.

So I met her and we started like really getting together on some creative ideas. I had all this content and all this great work that I had did. and I felt compelled to tell her my story. I didn't want to, and I was scared to her. I've always been scared to tell her my story. So when I told her this, that's when this mission for me started. That's when it became real. That's when the do it scared thing became real for me.

And she, you know, inspired me to tell it, you know, to tell like it is. And for the last couple of years, I've been hiding it, trying to portray, you know, a picture perfect contractor, professional, trustworthy, you know, a businessman that, you know, are going to be at your luxury home or residence or business, you know, taking care of some fine work. And I'm still that, no matter what. Right. But I'm scared to death somebody's going to, you know, do a background check on me. And some of them have, you know. I haven't known that. and I hadn't found out about that until after I kind of came out with this stuff and I found out,

wow, they knew about that and they still, you know, went to bat for me. They still, you know, deposited, you know, sent me a $30,000 transfer and, you know, did business with me. And, you know, that's why we called it, do it scared because everybody in my support system or anyone has said, you know, I was like, look, I'm going to wait until I'm secure until I am set up. I'm, you know, bulletproof. And I'm like, no, you got to do it now. You've got to do it. You got to do it scare.

And when somebody said it, I was like, man, that's, it's a perfect because, and that's what I would tell everybody else to, you know, is to, is to push through that and to, and to just do it. Because if you wait, you're just going to let all those little voices, you know, pile up inside of you. I mean, maybe you won't. Maybe you, maybe you're not that person, you know what I mean? Or whoever, you know, not everyone is the same.

but I think, you know, once you hear something or experience something so much that, you know, eventually you're going to, you know, everybody has a breaking point. Absolutely. And I would, that's, you know, where I'm trying to take this is to be able to inspire people to push through it and to do something is not too late. I am 45 years old and I just restarted my life like three years ago and it's going great. Yeah. And, you know, this might be kind of a silly analogy, but it just made me think of it. But when you were saying that you would want to hide your story and hide your experience because of the fear of like what people would think or if it would make things worse, but something that I've realized, even with just struggling with something as simple as things like small anxiety in certain situations, in those moments or going into things, we want to hide these things about ourselves that we're ashamed of. or that we're not proud of or that we think looks bad in a way.

But nine times out of ten something I've realized, and it's very different obviously, but it's just an analogy I thought of. But nine times out of ten, I've realized that when I hide these things about myself, it makes it so much more challenging to do big things and do better things. But I almost feel like if we're just upfront and honest from the start, even about things that we might not be proud of,

I think it's a lot, it feels a lot better if we go into something with complete openness and complete honesty, because then everybody's on the same page, because we don't have that unexpected fear of, well, what if this comes up? Or what if I get this job and then they do a background check or then they find something out at, like find something out about me or somebody tells them this, that and the other and then I lose the job. You don't have any of that because even if they choose not to go for me, like go for you, like, blah, sorry, even if they choose not to go with you from the jump, at least you know that

from the beginning, there is no worry. There's no fear. Right. So it just made me think of that, that even if it's something, of course, doing and having experienced what you experience, that's not something that right off the bat, you're going to come out of it and be proud of it. If you were, you know, you wouldn't be where you are now. Right.

But I feel like if you get to this point in your life and within yourself where you really see it how it is and what it is is your journey and it's inspirational. and you have every single right to share that. And as you walk through the rest of your life, if you're able to share that in a very open and honest and raw way, in my opinion, smart, level-headed people are going to respect that more

than someone that just says, like rather not tell you and not be honest and cover it up because of shame or guilt, people rather you just be honest. That's the feedback that I've had. Yeah. It's hard, but like that's what nobody wants to say any, that's like going into something in laying out the worst parts about your life.

Nobody wants to do that. But I think that the more you start to give yourself credit, which like I said too, it's one of the hardest things to do is give yourself credit where it's deserved. But the more you can do that and the more you can own your story and own your journey, I think the more you're going to get used to saying, yeah, that's who I was and that's what I went through. But that's also why I am the person I am today. Yeah.

And that's, in my opinion, that's always going to be more inspiring than somebody that one just handed it to them or, you know, okay, lucky you, lucky you had a great life. You know what I'm like? Like to other people. It's like it's great if some people have a great upbringing and then they make money for themselves and they do this and then they do that and that's the other. And that's great. But that's not always relatable. And I think that in my opinion, it's very relatable when you have these struggles and when you can confidently talk about them and show. where you are today and be proud of it. Be proud of who you are and where you, like how far you've come. Because it has not been a short and easy journey for you. I am. I am. It's been hard to be proud. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, the support that I've had from, from Brittany and her family has been like, it's been an eye opener for me. And I've heard it from, you know, my guy friends, my mentors, but, you know, in my opinion, guys are always going to, you know, try to talk you about. Yeah. Not that, you know, women wouldn't, I'm just saying that the male mentor supported roles in my life have said,

hey, man, you know, you're going to crush it, you know, whatever. But seeing the support that they showed me, like, help me come out of my shell and take the thing that I was hiding and literally, like, put it on stage. And it's all still pretty fresh. You know what I mean? Like it's not like it's been 20 years or something where, you know, it's very fresh. It's very recent. So I feel like everything that you're feeling is still very normal.

It's still very raw. And it's something that I feel like mentally you, you, it's hard to get that full grasp on and have that confidence in the sense of like owning your journey and owning where you are now. Like I said, having that fear of the unknown and having the fear. and having the fear of judgment is so normal because that is what the world is. The world is full of judgment. And I think something that we fear is when we are finally in a really stable, good place for ourselves, we don't want to get denied of anything.

We don't want to be judged. We don't want to ever feel like we're getting knocked down. And it's, you know that feeling all too well of like getting knocked down and feel like to start over. So obviously that's the last thing you want to feel. But I feel like after hearing your story and the fact that you've traveled out here to come on here and tell your story on a platform to one, somebody that you don't know, that being me. And then two, to a whole audience that it can reach and it will reach.

That says so much about you. And I feel like this is only the beginning for you with that. Like, I feel like that could just be something that you build on even years down the road. Like you could be speaking just like, I mean, you said you already do that in a sense, but you could continue to speak to even if it's something like high schoolers or college kids because that is such a crucial. age for people. I feel like that's kind of the place in life where people choose what path are going down. And there's so many people that just go down the wrong path, whether that's because

they were dealt just a bad, you know, some bad cards or if it's because of the people they're surrounding themselves with. But I think that there's nothing more inspiring than somebody that actually has the experience and the years on them to be like, let me tell you, I've done it all and it's not fucking worth it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, as amazing as it is, where you are now and what you've built already, I feel like there's so much more to come that you don't even realize. Like, and you might feel like, oh, like, majority of my life or half my life has already passed me, but things can happen and snowball really, really quickly. I agree. I'm open to it. I'm looking forward to it. I've,

thank you for saying that. Of course. Yeah. I can already see that. I mean, just in the last several months I've had just this big 180 in my life. So it's been, I mean, we're living at real time right now. Right.

Yeah. And this is kind of like your test run. Yeah. Of your, you know, sharing your story. I feel like in a very outlined order and kind of putting it all on paper. and then reciting it all and revisiting it. And even that's not something easy to do.

Because we can, at the end of the day, these are our own stories. But it isn't the easiest thing to kind of where you are now, sit back and revisit kind of some of the darkest times of your life. It can be triggering and it can be. Definitely. Make you feel guilty or ashamed or so many different mix of emotions. But I feel like this, like I said, this is a really good practice for you of like, okay, here's what has happened, here's me going back through it and kind of accepting where I

am today and being, like, just taking it all in. Yeah. I think that's really important for you. I'm with you. Good. And you did such a great job of telling it all, the details. You're such an interesting speaker and a person to listen to. It's very, like I said, not only is it as is it inspiring, but it's also entertaining in the best way. Well, thanks for saying that. Of course. I mean, it doesn't seem that way. It seems like... I'll keep boosting you up over here.

Okay. Keep going. Keep going. That's perfect. Oh, my gosh. That's all I ever needed is a cheerleader. Yes. No, it really is.

And like I said, I mean, I can't express it enough. And I feel like, you know, what you're doing now is incredible. And obviously, I feel like it's something that you've always had in you because you've always have been a hard worker. I think that you kind of just needed a very big pivot. in life. Yeah. And unfortunately, it was a long pivot and it was a pretty rock bottom pivot.

But it's okay because sometimes people need that. And I feel like some of our biggest and hardest lessons are the ones that really change us and make us who we are. And now that you're the best version of yourself. Definitely. Definitely. I agree. I always say it was like it was really tough to go through that.

But anybody that's on, that's addicted to, or, you know, or just, let's say on a basic level, I mean, I'd say it wouldn't take any, you say, oh, you're good after a month, right? I would say a year before your brain actually really starts to function normally and, at least when drugs are involved or there's some type of substance abuse or even probably mental abuse or any kind of abuse or trauma. It takes a year. I mean, I'm talking about being locked up.

I'm talking about being removed from, you know, that's just an opinion of mine. Yeah. You know, it's tough to sit in there and lose family members and watch people, you know, leave and come and go. But I don't think that I would have been able to make it without it. For sure. I wouldn't have been able to do any of this without that time. And it's sad to say, but I was deep off in it. Yeah.

And it's so cool, too, because no, matter where life takes you, you have so many talents. Like not only do you have what you're doing now, but you're artistic. You can tattoo. Like you have so many different things going for you. I feel like even one day, if you really wanted, you could write a book if you felt like it. If you felt like sitting down and doing that, like I just feel like the opportunities going forward for you are genuinely endless. Like they are. And you said something before, which was you have to want it. And that is so true. Like, you are not going to get where you want to get no matter what it is.

Even if you change your mind a million times, you're not going to get there unless you truly want it and you work for it. That's right. And now it's like it's almost like your journey. I say this to some people on this show because it is true. But your journey, I think is truly starting now for you. Or like ever since you've gotten out of prison and kind of gotten your life back together. Like this is where your journey starts.

Yeah. And everything before this was just kind of leading up to it. You know what I mean? And for you specifically and for your life. in your journey, that needed to happen. And it's never, it should never be something that you look back and you say, ugh, like, I could have done this or I should have done that. Fuck it.

It happened. It's done. Right. And you don't have to forget it, but you just, you accept it. You accept it for who you were and what it was. And now you're this person. And you're all these things. Like, and that's the thing.

You're so many things. Like you're a father, you're a friend. You're going to be an inspiration and a support system for other people down the road. And like, imagine that. Like, you probably never would have thought the day would come where you would be an inspiration to someone. And that's the thing. Like, today, sitting here and sharing your story, you are. And that's huge. That's like, that's a huge milestone. And it's one that it might not be right in front of your face invisible, but I can tell you from doing this show and reading through their comments and getting emails on end and people thanking me for having

these guests on, you will inspire at least one person. Great. That's the, And you will, yes. And I wanted to tell you, too, before I forget, if you have any links or anything that you want in the description, whether it's your business or whatever it might be, we can put it all in there too. So people can check all that stuff out. Thank you. Thank you. Of course. That's great. I appreciate that. Of course. That's a big deal. Thank you. Yeah. Of course. I even forgot the part. I mean, this is really sad. Sucks. And I hate to be talking about it. Like it's something I forgot, but I forgot about Jamie being murdered. You know, my son's mom. Like about nine months before I got out of prison, she was, like, shot to death like 40 times. Crazy. Was it by someone random? She was used as a kind of. It was some type of drug deal gone bad and used as a human shield. And like the hotel room got shot up with like three weapons.

Oh, that's horrible. Yeah, she was murdered. So it was in, I like get a call from the counselor when I was in prison. And I'm like, this is weird because that never happens. He like hands me the phone. And I'm like, and it's my dad. He said, have you talked to anybody? And I was like, what do you mean?

He's like, does anybody in the family talk to you? At that point, I was like, there's an emergency. Something's happened. And he was like, well, Jamie's dead. I don't know how. Apparently she was murdered. So didn't, you know, getting back. That's affected the whole dynamic with the boys.

And, you know, originally all I wanted was for them to come back home. for us to, I know they're older, they're 21 and 25, and I wanted that, you know, that was one of my main motivations for this, you know, that's, I would have made that happen, but who would ever thought that they were, you know, had minds of their own and opinions and feelings and trauma of their own? And they do, you know, and it isn't, you know, you can sit in there and plan and strategize and imagine things all you want that when you get out and it's real life, you know, it's different. You know, it just, it just, and it keeps going too. So I've had to, that's one thing that I've had to like deal with and keep on going. And being a parent and I obviously

I'm not a parent yet except for my to my animals, but being a parent from even just having so many people in here and and learning about people's traumas and how sensitive the young brain is, being a parent isn't easy. It's like, unless you're completely sheltering your children for, from the world, it's nearly impossible not to create some sort of trauma. Right. And even that will cause trauma by sheltering the children. So it's like, it's a lose-lose. They could have a slamming door at a phobia or something, you know?

Exactly. Exactly. But something that, at least speaking from right now, you know, even though that's, you know, your relationship with your boys is something that you can, all you can do is put in the effort now and work hard now to create that. relationship there as time goes on they're only going to be more happy and grateful and thankful of where you are today because the other alternative is staying where you were before right and you know what that leads to so it's just there would be no relationship or bonding

that could be created right so it's it we do what we can that's right and consistency shows a lot yes one year two years three years you know i'm i used to let things like that beat me up, you know, I used to let things like that destroy me. Oh, my sons don't want to live with, oh, my son said I hate, oh, he doesn't want to be. Oh, well, what's the point? You know, might as well, you know, be done with this or relapse or just say, forget it. And now, you know, it's just, it's not something that destroyed me or crushed me or anything like that. And I don't know I'm talking about like big boy grown up stuff. But to me, it's, it's always been a trigger. It's always, you know, these things of.

always been a reason to fall, you know. And I've had to say no to them. I've had to push away people that I've wanted to really bring in close just because they may be dangerous or bad or bad for business, bad for my freedom, you know, or a threat or not responsible or whatever. Yeah. And I think the further you get on your journey and where you are, I think the more easy and familiar it will get for you to kind of be able to read people and be like, yeah, you're good,

no, you're not. And just it kind of becomes an easy just in out, in out, like you know, back and forth. But it, like I said, it's still pretty fresh. So you're going to have to cut yourself some slack and realize there's going to be days that it might feel like, fuck, this is so, this is challenging. It's hard because life can be hard and it can throw some serious obstacles at you. But the longer you do it and the more consistent you are, it will only get better. And it might not seem like it some days, but it will. Like it just will. And you, like I said, you genuinely, I mean, sorry to say it, but there's some people that really just don't have much going for them. They don't have many skills, but you've got a lot of skills. You've got a lot going for you. So even if one thing

doesn't go as plan, pick up another thing that you're good at. Never stop. There's no reason to. Thank you. You've already done the other path long enough. Thank you. No problem. All right, word. Crushed it. Seriously. You did amazing.

So is it arable? Yes, it's arable.