We're All Insane - I Survived Childhood Sexual Abuse

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

#podcast #survival #mentalhealth #trauma #healingjourney Seth Gehle shares his journey of surviving childhood sexual abuse, neglect, and trauma. With raw honesty, he opens up about the pain of his past, the struggles he faced along the way, and how he found the strength to heal. Now a survivor, Seth hopes that by sharing his story, others who have experienced similar hardships will know they are not alone. Seth's Links: Book: https://a.co/d/2JRjUzMwebsite for signed copies: https://sethgehle.com/signed-copies/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seth_gehle/profilecard/?igsh=a210cWp5dmFhaXd0 YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@sethgehle If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Business Inquiries please contact: [e-mail] Topics: Surviving Abuse, Childhood Neglect, Childhood Trauma, Healing Journey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. I'm Seth Kail. I'm a just, I guess, a brief introduction. Now I'm a motivational speaker and author. I just published my memoir. Strengths behind the shadows. So that's like that that story comes from the, you know, basically the absolute hell that I endured as a child. Right.

So the story is, it's a memoir and it just details everything that I went through as much as I can. I think what's interesting about when we tell stories like this, I could sit here for the next like two days and talk to you of just about everything. Right. I could drop all these crazy stories on you and I'll share some that kind of highlight the impacts of what was going on. But there's so much to it, right? And I think most people, when they're sharing their stories,

there's so many of these moments that are like shocking. And we just don't have enough time to talk about them all or remember them all. So we have to focus on a few of them. And so I guess with the book and then even what I'll talk about today, and even I would say for those who are listening, when you're listening to somebody's story, there's so much more to it. There's just only so much that they can provide

at any given moment, right? There's almost never enough time to sit down and cover everything. So I think that's something to consider when you are listening to people's stories. And, you know, anyways, I was born and raised in Northwest Ohio. I was born and raised in Lima, Ohio,

small town, like 30,000, 40,000 people. As a child, it felt like a big city to me until I, like, grew older and have been to big cities and realize that it's very small. But Lima feels like a big city when you're a kid, especially, you know, late 90s. I mean, I was born in 94. So like late 90s, early 2000s, you start running around.

You're riding the bikes everywhere. Like, you know, everybody's outside until streetlights come on kind of thing. So, so, I mean, that's just kind of how I felt growing up. I felt like I lived in a big city. But I grew up in a very tough home. My mom was a single mother. She had me and my sisters back. to back years. I think like 17, 18, 19, had all three of us real quick. And then by the time,

I think I was maybe two, my father went to prison. So he and my mom got into a fight. He ends up stabbing my mom behind the ear and nearly kills her. So I don't have any memories of my father up until I was about six or seven. I'll get to that here in a minute. But I have a couple pictures or I've seen a couple pictures of me and him when I was a baby, but I don't have any memories of him prior to my first interaction with him. And so my mother, being a single mother of three kids, doing the best that she can, you know, it's hard to say if she was making good decisions or not. Back then, I'm sure she was doing her best, and a lot of people would probably make or have questions about her judgment and those things. And I certainly do to a degree. But being a single

parent is raising kids by yourself is the hardest thing that you can possibly do. I mean, it's, it's, a lot that goes into this psychology and research and all that stuff. But we are, we're designed to have multiple people around us as children, have a community raised us. And so when you're raised by a single parent, it, you inherently, uh, lose a lot of the impact that the community has for you. And so, um, you become very vulnerable, you know, things like that. And my story is kind of like a testament of that, I guess, because even at, at just five years old, we were bouncing around so much, moving around so much, different babysitters all the time. My mom would be gone for a week or two at a time occasionally.

And so we would live with the babysitters. Well, one of the babysitters that we had frequented and we'd live with them for a week or two at a time, they had like four, four or five boys. One of them was a teenage kid. He was older than me. I was five. He was like, I don't know, probably 16, 15, 16. My only frame of reference as far as time and age goes is that he looked like a grown man and I did not. I just, I can remember him looking older.

specifically, you know, when he took me into his bunk at night and began to molest me. I was, once again, I was five, five, six years old when that happened. And that wasn't like anything extreme as far as, you know, sexual abuse goes. It was just like him touching me, me touching him and observing one another, I guess. And I reported that to my grandparents. I told my grandparents about it on a weekend that I was at. visiting them. They brought it back to the house and said, like, hey, they addressed it at some point.

And then that kid's family denied it, which is typical, right? They usually will deny that and say, you know, that's not my kid. My kid wouldn't do that. Oddly enough, you know, 10 years later or so, that kid was sent to prison, I believe, for raping the girl next door. So, you know, I don't blame that kid. I'm not mad at that kid for that man now, I guess. for what he had done to me when I was a kid because he was just a kid.

He was only 16 or 15 or whatever. Likely something happened, right, that he did that. There's this interesting thing when you see people do something crazy, you're like, what the hell is wrong with this person? In reality, the question that we should be asking is like, what happened? Like, what happened to that person for them to act that way or to think that it's okay to be that way or to do what they're doing? There's something that happened to them that is making them behavior a certain way.

most of the time anyways. So at the same time, that kid had molested me when I was with my mom, which was most of the time, she would work during the day. So me and my sisters would come home from school and we would take care of ourselves at five, six, seven years old. We would, you know, take out the trash, do the dishes, cook some food in the microwave until my mom got home from work. Part of that being a home alone with no supervision, we ended up finding her like porn collection. and so at five years old we found these like VHS tapes we started watching them and you can imagine how compelling that might be to a young child and so I'm kind of watching it trying to figure out

what's going on and then I begin to have this like sexual hyper what do you call it like a hyper sexualization or whatever right and so at just five years old I mean I can remember being in like kindergarten first grade and like looking at girls all right. ready, like in a sexual way, you know, just because that's what I had seen. And so I attempted to have sex with a girl that was my age in my closet in my bedroom. My mom kind of opened the door. We had all of our clothes on, but I was attempting to do something. And I know, and I can remember like that girl, like I don't remember the specifics of it, but I can just remember she was very unsure of what was going on. She likely had not been exposed to porn or been molested, right?

So it's kind of crazy how much I didn't realize how much porn affects a child until in my adulthood in the last year or so that I've been kind of talking and kind of sharing my story. So it's kind of crazy. But my mom pulled me out of closet, beat the hell out of me, you know, and that was all I can remember from that day. And then as life would go on from like five, six, seven, eight, 19 years old, things just like slowly got more and more out of control. with my mom where she had always smoked weed and she'd always drink. And we always had people at the house. She always had different boyfriends. Like we were just like in this world like rotation. We were living with different family members. We were living by ourselves. Sometimes we were living without my mom. Like it was just chaotic. There was nothing that was stable or secure or consistent ever. I mean,

I moved schools once or twice a year. I never went to a school at the beginning of the year and finished at that same school. Like it was just constant moving. So, It was amidst of all the chaos, my mom having all these different boyfriends. There would be times we'd come home. I can specifically remember this apartment. There was a hole in the wall. And I remember my mom talking about and bragging about how she got into a fight with her boyfriend. And he threw a punch at her, but he missed.

And then she hit him with his glass. There was broken glass on the floor as well. And so my mom would brag about all of this, like, trauma, tragedy and, like, drama. and just, it was very toxic and it's very toxic for children to be around that and to hear that and to see it. She would also talk about my dad in a very negative manner. Like, you know, he was a piece of shit. He doesn't pay child support.

He's locked up and this and that. And so as a young man, you begin to like, you know, you're, you just, it's hard to develop as a young man without a father. Once again, I did not realize that in the time. I've just figured everything was. normal, I guess. That was your way of life. Yeah, everything was normal, you know.

So you don't realize the implications of not having a father until you're older and you're like, oh, here it is. So we, you know, I can remember we bouncing around a lot. We lived with a name and an uncle who were, I would say, like, sexual deviance is probably like putting it lightly. Like they were like disgusting sexual people. and I say that not because of what they did with each other, which I had no idea what that looked like,

but my aunt would come downstairs in the mornings. I can remember like early mornings before school, watching cartoons playing video games or maybe it was on the weekends. She would come downstairs butt naked, completely exposed. And I mean, I was like six, seven, eight years old, you know. And it was like in a way of like, look at me, you know, kind of like just like walking around the house or she might have like a robe on, but she was just completely naked and exposed to me and my sisters.

And this was your mom, sister? My mom's, mom's like brother, so I don't know who that is. We called him our aunt and uncle. And so, oddly enough, they were part of a church, you know, heavily involved in a church up there. We would go to church with them. There's a lot of, they never did anything with me, but they're not innocent people. And I'll kind of leave it at that. And what's unfortunate about that is neither one of them have ever been convicted of their crimes.

So they're living in Ohio free. I don't know what will happen if I ever encountered them one day again. You know, I will likely go to some sort of reporting through some sort of reporting process and tell them what I do know. But it's disturbing to know that specifically that uncle, because those two had gotten divorced. And so that uncle, I know now lives in Ohio, with a wife and kids, like multiple children, after everything that he had done over the years. So, which that's not my story to tell,

but he never did anything with me. And so we lived with people like that, right? Or my and uncle were like very weird about sex, my aunt exposing herself. And then I can remember like seven or eight years old meeting my dad for the first time. We were in our hometown. and we had moved back to our hometown.

And my mom, I don't know what it was. Like one day she's just like, hey, do you want to, we're going to see your dad or whatever. And he's in jail. And so my first memory of meeting my father is in prison or in a jail. And so we go into this room. There's the cubicles, plexiglass, phones on the walls, walk in, sit down.

And I don't know how I knew was my dad off the jump. But as soon as I saw him, I knew who he was. And I think I was probably eight years old, eight or nine. and he walks in my dad's like 6-2 he's bald he's got he looks like weathered at that point i mean he was only i don't know in his 30s maybe 40 um but he looks like you can tell he just looks old and worn out like he spent most of his life in prison and um he's got pain tattooed across his throat and big like block graffiti letters he's got like all kinds of prison tats you know Ozzy across his knuckles.

All of his fingers are like bent and broken and jacked up. He has like no fingernails. He bites his fingernails real bad. And all these like prison tats on his arms. And he's got a skull on the back of his head with a question mark. And just I remember he like walks in and sits down. And I grab the phone and I'm the middle child, but I grab the phone. And I can't even say anything to my dad.

I just start breaking down and crying. And we were there for 15, 20, 30 minutes, something like that. And the whole time I just cried. I just couldn't, I could just couldn't talk. My sisters talked to him, my mom talked to him, but I could not get any words to come out. I just couldn't stop crying. It was like very, very emotional. And it really sucks like when you think back on those days, like as a child, like I don't have any happy memories with my family.

I've got a couple, you know, here and there. But like the earliest happy, happy memories, you know, like the only happy memory I had with my mom at a very young age was being like five or six and sitting on a couch with her. remember I had chicken pox and so I stayed home to school. And so like it was like this moment that's in my head and it sucks because it's like I wonder what my mom's like earliest memory or what her happiest memory is of me. And I don't know if I'll ever know that. But like mine is sitting there on the couch with her and we were both eating a bag of potato chips and we're sharing the chips and both of our hands were in the back at the same time. And it was kind of like this like weird like you're on a date with a girl kind of moment and like you put your hand in the popcorn

and Bucket at the same time. You're like, you know. And so as a young man, like your, your mother is the first woman that you love, you know, and same with a girl and their father, you know. So there's like that special bond that you have. And I could just remember being on that couch with my mom and just like, I was so in love with the moment, you know. And like, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,

it's interesting to think about people's, as somebody who grew up with neglectful parents or absent parents. I like to ask people that question. Like, what's your earliest, like, memory with your parents? Like, what's your happiest memory with them, you know, as a child? Like, what's the earliest one? And I don't know why it's, like, cathartic for me to hear that. But it just is for some reason, almost like living through, vicariously through somebody else's childhood.

That's kind of how I am with my kids now, I guess. But anyways, my first memory is with my father, you know, or meeting him in prison, right? Meeting him in jail. I don't have the memories of throwing the football in the front yard, teaching me how to play baseball, show me how to ride a bike. I don't have any of those memories. You know, like those are not there. And they never happened. They were all, you know, my earliest memories of prison.

So life goes on. 9, 10 years old, you know, my mom becomes more abusive. She starts to get abusive. And as in like physically striking my sisters and I, grabbing us by the face, slapping, punching. I can remember. I can remember her. She started drinking more.

I don't know if I'd say she was an alcoholic, but she was drinking a lot. And there was always a lot of drama with her boyfriend, her current boyfriend at the time, and all the guys that he would hang out with. And for some reason, people always over at our house. They were always over at our house drinking and smoking.

I can remember coming home, like 9, 10 years old. And it's interesting. People ask me, like, when did you know you were going to write a book? Or when did you know you were going to, like, tell your story one day? And this day, like, no shit. I was like my life is not going to take this path. What had happened was I was coming home and I was going up my stairs and I look in the living

room and my mom is in there with probably six, seven, eight, nine guys and they're all smoking weed. They're passing a blotting around the room and my older sister's in there. She wouldn't have been older than 10 or 11 years old and she's in this room with adults smoking weed. And that very moment, I can remember looking at them and just thinking to myself like my life will not take that path. Like I'm not, I don't know what I'm going to do, but like, I know that I will do something great with my life. I'll not. I will not take this path. And so I can remember

going up in my bedroom and thinking to myself, you know, that one day I'm going to do something special. Like, I don't know what it is yet, but one day there's, you know, there's something in me that I just not going to accept this life. You know, within a couple weeks after that, sitting in my bedroom with my, with my, uh, my sister. And she had just gotten to a fight. with my younger sister. So she's sitting in there talking to me. I'm playing video games. I'm sitting on my bed and my sister's off to my left.

So she's got like her back against the wall. And there's a door right here. And I'm sitting here playing games. And out of nowhere, my mom like kicks open the door. And, you know, I turn and look. And my mom just without any warning or anything, just turns, looks at my sister and just like hammer fist strikes her in the mouth. and I remember she had a sucker in her mouth

and so that's kind of what I was worried about more than anything but she had hit her like three or four times I mean bounced her head off the wall I jumped on the other side of my bed started crying I can remember like looking up over my bed over my mattress like looking at my mom and I'm just like hysterical I've always been an emotional person

I mean I would cry over spilled milk and so I was immediately just like just screaming and crying you know and I think that's probably the first time I'd seen my mom like really strike one of us and so it just took me it just, it was just hard to watch. And so in the midst of my crying, my mom looks at me and says,

what are you fucking crying about? Stop being a bitch before I give you something to cry about. So I shut up. And, you know, she walks out of the room. And a couple weeks after that, I was coming home from school. And I did not take the bus. And I usually took the bus. And me and my cousins were walking home from school together.

And being boys, we like, we're running around. just doing dumb shit. We took our time, got home like an hour or two later than what we normally do. And instead of my mom being like, hey, where were you at?

Like I was worried, whatever. When I got home, it was like very angry. You know, she's like, where the fuck were you screaming and yelling at me? So she tells me go upstairs and, you know, bend over the bed, which was like standard, like you're going to get your ass whipped protocol, right?

Which is not that bad. You know, usually it's like one or two smacks with the paddle and then you're done. Well, this particular moment, Like I can remember going up there. I kind of grabbed the blankets and my mom strikes me. The first time she hits me with this board, um,

I, she had hit me so hard. I knew like immediately that like this is not good. She hits me again and I had fallen to my knees and she kept swinging. So she hits me, I don't know, three or four or five times across the back with this, um,

massive like, it's a two by six is what it was with a handle carved into it, with a bunch of holes drilled into it. It's like designed for like the most optimal. ass-whipping tool for kids, basically. And she's striking me across the back instead of my butt. And so I can remember, like, falling down. And my mom yells and screams at me, you know, because I'm on the floor screaming and crying.

And I'm just, like, kind of broken because she's the only person that I have, and she's, like, beating the hell out of me with no remorse, you know? I think that as a child, you can go through a lot of pain and heartache, especially from your parents. Because most of the time, the parent is going to, like, reassure you or love you or apologize or there's some sort of like empathy or compassion there. It's some sort of love, right? Like tough love, right? This was not tough love. This was just straight up, like beating the shit out of your child.

and as I sat there and cried she you know she didn't she didn't say the only thing she said to me was get the fuck out of here get the fuck up get the get out of here go to your room and so I crawled to my room and I laid there and cried for like hours and I wasn't I don't think I was in pain anymore

I don't really remember the pain of it as far as physical pain goes but I can remember just like being heartbroken you know and just just sad like why is my life going like why what's happening right now like what's going on why is my mom acting like this you know and And to the point of like I knew I was going to tell my story.

Like in those moments, I knew that like one day, I knew that my life was taking a path and I knew that one day I would tell my story and like I'm going to, you know, I don't know, make me change the world. I want to do something special. That's kind of what I would tell myself. You know, in those following in that same house, I can remember my mom, I don't know what was going on. We were in the car and she was with her boyfriend.

And she's driving and she's going down this street. It's a 25 mile an hour like neighborhood street. And she's doing like 60. She's drunk. And this was probably like one of the more like terrifying moments. I was in the back seat with my sisters and my mom is yelling and screaming at her boyfriend, drunk driving. And she's threatening to kill us all. And she's like literally like, I'm going to kill everybody in this fucking car like, you know, yelling and screaming.

My sisters and I are in the back and we're screaming and crying and we're just begging her. like mom please stop please stop like mom mom mom mom and she uh she turned around and just yelled at us and you know says like you know shut the fuck up i'm gonna kill us all and yelling and screaming you know and um she i don't know what happened she calms down and there's these moments like you have these like deeply traumatic memories and then everything else is like a cloud like it's like there's like there like that that little memory right there and like that's all i can pick out of it you know. And that's the only memory that I have of that moment, but it was crazy, you know. And so not to kind of belabor the point of the situation, but I'll share a couple more stories and

move on. Um, so, you know, with, with the abuse and the, um, drama from my mother and all the, all the, all the BS, if that wasn't enough, our, our security. was like at risk as well. My mom would go to work at night. So she would, at this point when we were like 10, 11, 12 years old, she would be at home during the day. She would work at night. So she would go to work at 8 o'clock at night, 7 o'clock at night,

and be gone until 7 in the morning. Looking back on it now, I assume that she's probably doing this to avoid responsibility maybe. I'm not really sure. I don't know why you would leave your kids at home alone at night when you have the option to work during the day, when they would be safer at home during the day, home during the day and they're at school during the day. I just don't understand why you would work at night when you have kids to take care of. And so anyway, that was her decision. And

with her being gone, one night, my sisters wake me up. And one of my sisters has a knife in her hand. The other one has the cord of the alarm clock wrapped around her hand. The alarm clock's like hanging from her hand. And they said, Seth, you know, somebody's trying to break in. And so I kind of, you know, wake up and we go downstairs. And although I was the middle child, I was kind of like the leader between the three of us. I just, I don't know, there's something about me that just, I don't know, I was the leader of the three of us. And so they came and got me and we go downstairs and sure enough at our back door, which has, you know, the handle, lock, the dead bolt. We also had a two by four that was nailed across the door.

We lived in a bad neighborhood. So there was a two by four nail across the door. The back windows had like chicken wire around them So people couldn't couldn't break it in and Come down to the kitchen and sure enough there's three guys kicking in our back door One of them's got like a sledgehammer the other one's got a maybe a baseball bat and a shovel something like that And they're just striking the door and I can I'm sitting there in the kitchen Not sure what to do we're kind of just sitting there screaming and crying and you can just see the door just like inching open

You can see the two by four being ripped away the frame of the doors like poppy out, you know, and the door just slowly just crack and open, you know. It seemed like hours. We're kind of sitting there. There's probably a few minutes. And our neighbors came outside. The people ran away. And we, the cops show up.

They call my mom. My mom comes home from work. We're kind of standing outside. And, you know, the cops are like, okay, is everything okay? My mom, you know, yep, everything's fine. All right. Go inside. Go back to sleep.

So our house, we just watch is. nearly broken into and we just go inside and go back to sleep. And then the next day we go, we get up and go to school, right? And so while all this craziness is happening, like I'm just showing up and going to school, like no therapy, no help, no support, no like, hey, I know the times are hard right now,

but we're going to get through this. You know, there was nothing, right? And so I'm showing up to school. And then I'm this kid who's trying to just freaking survive, basically. and the good news is I was a very smart kid so like I naturally exceeded very well I mean I was arguably the smartest kid in my class I was a perfect student as far as grades go but I got into a lot of fights so I was constantly suspended or in school suspensions whatever and I even despite all that I managed to keep perfect grades so I was a very smart kid but I was a class clown

talked a lot got into trouble for talking a lot and just being funny or whatever but it's interesting to look back on all that and see how like my home situation was impacting my social life at school, you know. School was like a reprieve for me. It was warm. First off, it was like a warm place to be. I had friends there. There was food. There was, it was safety, you know. There was no like craziness happening aside from getting in fights, which I was likely the instigator in the situations anyways. But yeah, it's interesting to look back on that. And I had a few teachers that probably were harder on me than they needed to be.

And then some that were certainly, they knew something was wrong. They're trying to help me as much as they could. But I say all that to say that, you know, that break-in was a perfect example of when somebody should have intervened and been like, what the hell is going on? Like, okay, or, hey, call the school system and let them know, like, these kids, they just had a break-in. you know, like somebody needs to talk to them tomorrow or, you know, just let somebody know. And I'm not mad at the system. I'm not mad at the police or the teachers because they're underpaid and undertrained. They don't know.

They don't know what they don't know. And I think people look at police and teachers like there are these high class civilians or these high class people that are above all else because of the roles that they have. And they have these crazy expectations. and like teachers are just, they're just normal people. Police officers, they're just normal people with a harder job.

So the title does not always come with the necessary pay and training that they need. So I think their job is incredibly important, but it doesn't make them this, you don't just become a teacher or an officer and then become this highly skilled individual. Anyways, say that just,

you know, I'm not knocking them for further failures, I guess you could say, or their oversights. But anyways, you know, kids go through all this craziness every day and they just keep showing up to school. And a lot of times they're looked at like troublemakers and, you know, we don't realize that there's something going on.

So there's been a lot of research and studying in that field where they do kind of pick up on these things now more than they did in the past. But, yeah, that house was just craziness. Like things were just spiraling out of control. And because of all that, I found myself. outside of the home more. So there were many nights where I'd be running around outside playing, having fun with my friends.

I ended up meeting this kid down the street. His name's Jacob for the sake of the story. It's a fake name, but to protect his identity. So I meet Jacob. Jacob's like 15 years old. I was 10. And he lives down the street from me, started hanging out with him.

And Jacob's actually like a good kid, a good influence, like solid kid. You know, he's in high school. But he kind of takes me under his wing. and he kind of, he picks up on the fact that I had a broken home, basically, you know, and he kind of knows something's wrong. So he takes me under his wing and he starts to let me hang out with him playing video games, doing all the things. And after like a month or two of hanging out with him, I'm at his house coming down the stairs

and there's this guy that walks in the front door. He's like 6-5-66. Big guy, he's, you can tell he's Hispanic, but he's very pale, very, very light complexion. He's got these big aviator-style glasses on like, uh, Dahmer style glasses, you know. Long black, slick back hair. And very big, wide guy. He's like 380 pounds and just a massive dude, but imposing.

Like, does not look sloppy. Like, I always say he looks like he could throw a hard punch. And he walks in and he's like, hey, what's your name? Seth? So you like football? Yeah, I love football. You like video games? I love video games.

What is he like pizza? Yeah, I love pizza. And so he's like, well, why don't you come up to my house this weekend with me and Jacob and we'll play video games and eat pizza? And I was like, all right, well, let me go ask my mom. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same.

Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe and Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. Go home and ask my mom, and my mom says, as long as I'm with Jacob, I'm okay, you know, because I'm going to this grown man's house, and so my mom showed a little bit of concern. But as long as I was with Jacob, I was good to go.

So I go to his house, and I remember getting into his car. He drove this small Honda Civic, and it was a hot summer day, and I think this is probably the first car that I'd ever been in that had air conditioning. and he was a big dude, and so, like, he kept it cool in his car. And I can remember, like, getting in there and being like, damn, like, this is awesome.

This is kind of nice. You know, I've got this friend now all of a sudden who can drive. We go to this chicken place in our hometown, his famous chicken place. And for the first time, probably in my life, I get whatever I want on the menu. You know, I get this big meal, large fries, large drink, freaking sitting in the back, like eating all this food. And I'm like, damn, dude, this is freaking sick, man. Like, I've got this, once again, this friend who can drive him. Now he's buying me things.

I mean, all within an hour. Like, this is all happening very quickly. And then we're on the highway to drive up to Bluffton, Ohio, which is about 30-minute drive. And we're listening to, like, ACDC, Metallica, and we're freaking rocking out and just eating the food. And just like, I'm like, you know, Jacobs and the passenger. The guy's name, we called Amando, was his nickname. He's driving. And we're just like, hell, yeah, this is awesome.

Get up to his house, walk in. And he lives in this big studio apartment. So there's one big room. And you walk in, you turn, and it's, you know, there's a low ceiling. It's like a nine foot ceiling. Acoustical ceiling tiles. It's very dark and it's very cold and very dirty. There's trash like everywhere all over the apartment.

As soon as you walk in and his car was full of trash too. But as soon as you walk in, there's like three big trash bags right there like full of trash. There's like fast food and pizza boxes all over the place. You know, there's a kitchen in the back right corner and the sink is full of like dirty, moldy dishes. I mean, it was like, disgusting, but as a 10-year-old kid, like, you don't give a shit. You're, you know,

you, like, you barely take a shower, you know, so, like, you just don't care. And, um, the first thing I noticed was the trash, but then also I turned on my right and there's three TVs, a couple game systems, couch, chair, there's two desktop computers in the back right corner, um, a big table like this, kind of sitting in the middle of the room. Um, and then there was this, in the back left corner, there was a black sheet that was hanging up from this, it was just tied into the ceiling. And that was where he was, his bed was. It was like his bedroom. There's this black sheet that blocked it off. So my first impressions were, okay, there's multiple TVs and multiple game systems, which means we don't have to

take turns and we can play video games all night long. So that's what we did. We sit down. We start playing games, you know, gets late. He orders pizza, energy drinks, pop, coffee. Like, this is just freaking heaven for kids, you know, especially for somebody like me. Because, you know, you go to a friend's house and their parents, you know, you can't just go in the pantry and eat whatever you want. The parents are going to put you to bed. You can't drink the pop, like all of these things, right? And we were just, I mean, there's no rules. And so, I mean, I did not sleep that night. I know I didn't sleep. I stayed up all night long playing video games. I mean, it was just awesome. And so I was so happy to admit to admit this guy and to unknown Jacob. And that was a Saturday. Sunday,

Mondo takes us both back home. And he's like, hey, you know, well, when do you want to come back? And I'm like, dude, I'll come back like next weekend. Like, just say when, you know? And so he's like, all right, well, cool. And so I was 10 years old when that happened. And from that point forward, I started going to his house every single weekend. There's 52 weekends in the year. I was at his house, probably 45 to 50 of them.

If there were holiday events, like 4th of July Memorial Day, whatever it was, like I was at his house with his family. So I ended up meeting his mom, end up meeting his sisters, his sisters who had kids, and ended up meeting his whole family. For Christmases, like all the holidays, I'd go to his house and hang out with him and his family. Or we'd go see his family and they'd go back to his house.

And, you know, it's interesting when I first met his mom, I had really long hair. I had long hair down on my shoulders. And admittedly, I did look like a little girl. But his mom even told me, like, you're too pretty to be a boy. And I'll kind of circle back to that here in a minute. But as I got to know Mondo, within maybe two or three months, I started to kind of share some personal things with Mondo.

I started telling him like, hey, you know, my mom's like really mean. She's very abusive. She drinks and smokes a lot. I get bullied at school. I'm really smart, but I get bullied a lot, a lot of kids make fun of me for my clothes and things like that, my shoes. Because I had like just, I had whole. in my shoes and dirty clothes, you know, so got bullied a lot for those things.

I started telling Mondo, you know, I don't have a dad. I've got a couple sisters and like life just, it's just hard right now. And around that same time that I had met Mondo, you know, over the course of those first three months, my mom had met a new boyfriend. And so this guy, his name was Jamie. He was a light skin guy, he's like six two, a couple missing teeth, corn rows. he had a very athletic build. You could just tell he's naturally

athletic. And I talk about him in my book, but I say he had a crooked smile because he was very charismatic. He's very smooth. He's very just he would light up a room when he walked in. But due to the nature of my childhood and happen to read people and read situations in rooms,

I could pick up a threat very quick. quickly and I did with him. And as soon as I met him, I knew the guy was trouble. Okay. And sure enough, he ends up getting my mom addicted to cracking cocaine. And my mom just swore by the guy because he was a man of God and he was, he was a part of this church. And we even went to the church and watched him, you know, give a sermon or whatever you call it and doing his thing. And so he had a lot of respect and love from the people in the church. They all looked at him like he was his hero. And so my mom was just infatuated with him and that and he ended up selling her on pipe dreams which you know my definition of pipe dreams are basically you're sitting around smoking or drinking and you're hitting the pipe and then like

you have like all these like ambitions all the sudden right like oh man yeah we're going to do this and this and this and then like when the high is gone everything else is gone right and so he's selling her on all these dreams and so we end up moving out of the house that we were in which was perfectly fine for us I'm not sure why we moved, but we ended up moving. And we move into this other house that we had no utilities on, which was common. We didn't have utilities often where we'd have to heat up our bathwater or we didn't have power or something like that. We would go a couple days without those things or a week or two. And that was common, which it's not really that bad.

But we moved into this house in the dead of winter with no utilities in Ohio. and this is probably where like I really began to lose respect from my mom. I didn't know that she was using cracking cocaine at this point, but what made me lose respect was I go upstairs to the bedrooms. My bedroom was at the top of the stairs. My sisters was down the hall. And this little house that we lived in had two bedrooms. That was it.

And so my mom slept in the living room downstairs. My bedroom upstairs, I walk in. There's hardwood floors. They're cracked and split all the way across the floor. they're buckled up and they do that whenever they get wet with weather. Weather will turn your hardwoods and crack them and pop them. Though it's called buckling. And they were like that because my bedroom ceiling had a hole in the top left corner

or the top corner or whatever. And it was like three feet. It was probably three feet wide, four feet deep. I mean, just literally just nothing. And you could just see straight into the attic above. And I mean, it's freezing cold in the room. It's soaking wet because it had been like raining and snowing. And so all that was just coming straight into my room.

And I'm like, I can remember like being in that room at 10 years old and being like, what the fuck is going on? Like, what is going on? I mean, it was so cold you could see your breath, you know? And I don't know, within a couple hours, I had a mattress in there and a blanket. And I spent, yeah, a lot of nights in that room, freezing cold, sleeping on a thin little mattress with a thin blanket, just like, I wet the bed every single night.

I dealt with this massive hole in my ceiling. I mean, it was just miserable. And so when I tell my story, you know, it can be kind of hard to follow sometimes because I was living on like two sides of the street. You know, Monday through Friday, I was living at home with my mom, going to school, doing all the things, but dealing with the abuse and the drugs and the violence. And then Friday night and Saturday night, I was going to Mondo's house, which for the first few months was really cool.

It was awesome. Well, and sharing all of these details with Mondo, you know that my mom had got this new boyfriend and this place that I live and I have a whole of my room and this and that. I also began to become like very suicidal. I started to have suicidal thoughts at 10 years old, thinking about jumping out of my window, stabbing myself, cutting myself.

I had thought of all these different mechanisms to take my life. I was just scared of pain. Truthfully, I don't know that I would, if I could have done it without feeling pain, I probably would have done it. But I was scared of feeling pain. And the only thing that I could think of that, that I could be successful with was jumping from a high window or a parking deck, something like that.

And I would like rationalize with myself, like how I could do it. But then I would also tell myself like, well, if I survive, it's going to hurt, you know, and then I'm going to be stuck. So like, I'm just, I'm not going to do it. And so I, um, I just kind of hung on to lie. But when I met Mondo and I began to tell him a lot of these different things of all these situations in my life, like I was saying earlier, you know, single parent, no father, drugs, violence, abuse, bullying, suicide. Mondo began to kind of reiterate those same things back to me.

And whether they were true for him or not, you can probably tell what the story's going, right? And this is part of the grooming process. Would Jacob go with you still every weekend? or was there a point where it was just to you going? So, yeah, Jacob, after probably like a month or two, so I guess four, five, six times, Jacob would go with me often, but not every time. Okay. So you guys had time to, like, talk and just be with each other?

Yeah, well, that and I would call him during the week. I mean, I would call him multiple times during the week and just talk with him on the phone. And so when we would talk about all these different. for things that were going on. And he would kind of mentor me and coach me through like these school situations and at home situations. And he was always just like a person that I could lean on. And then when he began to tell me that he had also grown up with a single mother who was abusive and he had a couple sisters and, you know, he was bullied in school. And like he was also suicidal. And he still was at that point. We began to bond, you know. And so I just trusted him more

than anything else in the world. He was, he was the only person that I had come across that I could trust. and that knew what it was like. Because even as a young man or in school, there's a lot of people who come to the schools and speak to the kids, but a lot of those kids are coming from places where it's like, you don't know, you don't know me.

Like, you don't know where I'm coming from. You know, like, I can't listen to you. Like, you have no idea what it feels like to be me, right? And that's how I felt whenever anybody would talk to me, I'd always had this deep resentment, like, you don't know what it's like. So, like, I just wouldn't listen to people. But Mondo did, so I would listen to him. And he did give me good advice.

And so one weekend, you know, oddly enough, I was up there with Jacob and sitting here watching football on a Sunday. And Jacob drives down the street to go get some tacos. And it was really cold in there. It always was cold. Mando had, and I told him, and I was like, hey, I'm cold. And so he had invited me to sit in his lap because he had a blanket. And so I get up in his lap and he's this big guy. He's got this big chair.

you know, and I'm sitting on his left leg. He's got his left hand around my left hip, and I'm like laying in his chest. And I think that was probably the first time that a grown man had ever put, like, loving arms around me, or so it seemed. And I can remember, like, laying there, and, like, just being so warm against his chest

and just, like, comfortable and, like, I was fine. Like, I was good. And it just felt good. Like, a boy needs love. love from a man. And they need a father for that, right? Same, I mean, girls do too. This is, you know, daddy issues that we call them, right? And as I'm laying, as I'm laying there, he, his left hand falls off my left hip, touches my butt, and he apologizes. He says, I'm sorry. I said, no, it's not a big deal. I figured if me and you bump each other in the hallway, that's all it was.

And he puts his hand back on my butt and he says, so this is okay. And when he does that, that I froze, which is typical. And by freezing, you're essentially offering them consent in his mind, right? That's his, what he's doing is he's touching the water and it's not too hot. He's good. He's like able to keep his hand there, you know? And so I just kind of freeze up and I sit there. And at that moment, I knew, I knew that this was not good.

Like, I knew this was not right, you know. it almost feels like you're at the top of a roller coaster and you kind of hit that last click and you're like looking down and you're kind of like oh shit like here we go you know but you're already strapped in like you can't get off this ride like this is a ride that you're on you know and it's about to go down so um take a pulls up outside i can hear the gravel turning where he's pulling in and um he moves his hand away we watch the rest of the football game we go home Then I began to do what is typical, which is I gaslight myself. Like this isn't happening.

Like that didn't happen or, you know, maybe that wasn't that weird. Like it's not that big of a deal. He was just resting his hand, whatever. Anybody who goes through any kind of abuse, they typically will gaslight themselves. Domestic violence situations like women and men and they'll gaslight themselves into thinking like that just didn't happen, you know. So that's what I was doing. I did not realize that at the time. Obviously, this is very like retrospective.

It's also sad because in that moment that you said that you were sitting on his lap and you felt that warmness, it's like you had this good experience for like a second and then it was just ripped away from you again. Yeah, that's the, I guess for lack of a better word, it's probably a horrible word to say, but that's like the beauty of it, I guess, or, you know, like that's what they want. Yeah. Like they, they want that, they see the massive vulnerability. They can provide comfort and then they take advantage of said comfort, you know. And it's just, it's disgusting and manipulative and deceitful.

And it's just, it's sad that so many people experience it, especially children, but even in adults. It's really, really haunting. So I guess to further even kind of bounce off of that, a couple weeks later, I'm back at his house. I mean, I still was going back to his house every weekend, but a few weeks later, I was back to his house. And it eventually became natural or normal for me to just sit in his lap. And one weekend I'm up there, and he kind of,

I'm going to sit in his lap, and he sits up in his chair, which is kind of weird. And so I'm standing there between his legs, and he leans forward, and he rips my shorts and underwear down to my ankles. And that's the first time he, he had seen me naked. And I, you know, bend down, pick up my shorts, cover myself up, and I start crying. I'm embarrassed. I'm a young boy.

And it's embarrassing. And so he's like, hey, you know, I'm sorry. And he takes me in. He holds me. And he's like, I'm sorry. Like, I didn't mean, like, what's wrong? And I told him, I said, I was embarrassing and this and that. And he says, you know, there's nothing to be embarrassed about.

Like, you don't have to be embarrassed around me. Like, it's okay. I'm, you know, what are you embarrassed about? And, uh, I'm, um, you know, what are you embarrassed about? Not knowing then, but knowing now, what he was doing was creating this massive need for love and affection with nobody else there to help me, you know, besides him. So you're breaking down that barrier, you know, you're kind of putting your hand in the hot water and seeing if you can fix it. And if you can, then you know you're good. And that's what manipulative people do.

that's what abusive people do. Like if I wanted to maybe piss you off, I might start with like some like slight aggressions. I might like throw this water bottle across the room. And then maybe tomorrow when I walk in here, I might slam the door and then maybe the next day I might throw the bottle directly at you. And then eventually I'll put my hands on you.

And you're so desensitized to all these other things that when I put my hands on you, you're desensitized to. it. So you're just kind of like, okay, this is, this is happening, you know? And that's the same thing he was doing to me by ripping my shorts down. He's just breaking down the defenses, right? Um, not doing anything super egregious. I mean, even though that is crazy, just slowly chipping away. They're just, and they're very methodical. Um, this sounds twisted as well, but the people who do this to children, they have to be very smart, strategic and methodical with everything they do. If you're going to mess with

kids, you've got to be very careful about it because one slip up and you're done, you know. And so they have this weird power dynamic is usually what it is. It's usually not a sexual fetish or fantasy. It's usually just this like power kind of dynamic that they get off of or get off from. Sometimes it is sexual. But anyways, he was very deliberate with everything he did, very strategic. In fact, we would, you know, within six months of being up there, and visiting him,

it was normal for me to sit in his lap and for him to have his hand in my pants or like in my waistband. And then we would go, we had other adult friends that we would hang out with. And they even had kids, not his family or my family, but it's just like these like random adult friends that he had.

And we would be at their house watching football, playing games, whatever. And then whenever it was time to leave, he would make comments like, hey, you know, I got to leave, I got to go fuck Seth tonight. Or Seth's going to blow me tonight. Or I got to get back and, you know,

we're going to do this. this or he would make comments about me being too pretty to be a boy to his friends yeah i mean in a room full of adults and how would they react everybody would laugh it off yeah everybody would laugh it off because mondo was like the loving funny guy everybody hugs him everybody loves mondo he's like the best friend he's uh everybody loved him and so what what they're doing in that situation is uh basically stabbing you in the heart and and just letting you know like nobody's nobody's you know like nobody nobody's going to believe you. You can say whatever you want, but nobody's don't believe you because, look, I got all of these people under my control. Yeah. So they're not only manipulating the

child. They're manipulating everybody. You know, we'd go to his family events and nobody said anything. I mean, this 30-year-old man's walking in with a 10-year-old boy who looks like a little girl, and nobody's saying anything. Like his his own sisters with children are not saying anything, you know? And I'm not mad at them. I don't blame them for it. Um, you know, I, The world is changing, and I think we're becoming more aware of these things, but it's a bystander effect is what it is. And once again, they gaslight themselves, you know? They're like, oh, he's just helping this kid out. There's no way that something's happening because why would he go back, you know?

He's just helping this kid out. And so there's the bystander effect. It's similar. You see it all the time where something happens is so shocking that you don't even know what to do. And you almost don't believe that it's happening right in front of you. So that's likely what was happening between. his sisters and their families and all of those things. Do you think that he was doing anything to Jacob as well?

So I'll get to that. Okay. Yeah, I'll get to that. This would continue going on for the next couple years. And so Monday through Friday once again, you know, going home, violence, drugs, all those things. We started to see addicts in my home every day, just all kinds of people coming in out of the house. Like 10, 15, 20 people a day would come in. at one point we actually confronted my mom.

It was kind of like my little master plan to say like, hey, like, are you using drugs? And when my sisters and I sat down with my mother, I was 11 or 12 to sit down and ask your mom, like, are you using crack and cocaine? It's kind of crazy. She, of course, denies and kind of tells us to fuck off and mind our business. You know, whatever, she's going to do whatever she wants to do. She's a grown woman. and so yeah like I said Monday through Friday kind of doing that Saturday Sunday or Friday night Saturday night was up at Mondo's house when I was 12 years old I was this summer or fall of being 12

I was coming home from Mondo's house one weekend and my mom or excuse me my my sisters were at my neighbor's house which was like really rare that like never happened and so I kind of walk over there I'm like wondering what's going on. And they're watching a TV show called Intervention. And those show back in the day, you know, if somebody was addicted to drugs, they would bring in a surprise intervention. And it was like this big TV show about it. And at the end of every episode, they would say,

if you know somebody who needs help, reach out to us. And so my sisters and I are like looking at each other like, oh, like we know somebody. Like let's get some freaking help, you know? And I can make this up. Like this is something you would see in a movie. At that very moment, my little sister walks outside, comes back in and screaming and crying to my neighbor's house. And so me and my older sister, we go outside to see what's going on.

There is a fire in my front yard, and my mom's boyfriend walks out in the front porch, and he's wearing like a white tank top, and he's got blood all over his, like, torso area. My mom had just stabbed him in the bathroom over some drugs, most likely. and then she set a bunch of his shit on fire in the front yard. And so me and my sisters are immediately hysterical. Like we know that this is not good.

Like, mom's about to go away. And I can remember it was like a hot day. And the cops show up like seemingly immediately. It's like they're right around the corner. And cop shows up. Remember the cop car being out in the front of the house? And my mom was just like in the back of the car immediately. I don't remember her.

All I can remember is like going to the back of the police car and she was in there. And I'm just like beating on the police, the car's window and I'm just like screaming and crying. And I'm just like begging, begging and begging. Like despite all the bullshit that she had put us through, that was my mother. You know, and I loved her to death. And you just have that unconditional love. And if she's gone, like I don't have anybody to take care of me, you know, so I'm just terrified. And she's gone, you know.

The cop comes and takes her. and it just felt like my blood had kind of like left my body. I remember being, I remember it was so hot, but I was like freezing cold in the middle of the street. And I mean, it just felt like I was dying. Like I can imagine that's probably what death feels like.

Just this cold, like cold cold, feeling. And I don't know, a few minutes later, we're in the house within the, within an hour, like I have aunts and uncles there and cousins.

And my dad shows up out of nowhere. And, um, we go to my dad's house. house. Did you know that he was out of jail? Yeah. Yeah.

We had seen him like, we even see him like once a year, you know, something like that. But he was also always in and out of jail. So it was kind of, like, that's why I mean when he was out, came out of nowhere, I have no idea who the hell. Like, I mean, everything happened so quickly, or at least it seems that way. It may have been hours. I don't know. But it seemed like it was happening in like five, 10 minutes, you know.

And he was just there. And despite like my dad, like not ever being present really, um, um, we didn't have like a bad relationship, you know, with my dad. And anyways, so we go to live with him. And over the next like four to six months, because I initially lived with him, but I only lived with him for about a month because I was getting in so much trouble at the school system that I was at.

It was a country school. It was mostly white kids. I'd come from a predominantly black school. So it was just a massive culture shock for me. But just like inner city school, to a country school, it's just completely different. Intercity schools, there's fights, drugs, violence every day. Country schools, there's nothing.

Right. And so, like, I went out to this country school and, like, I saw a couple kids get into a fight and I didn't say anything. I mean, I saw this kid get his ass beat and I got in trouble for not saying anything. Whereas in a city school, it's like, this is like every day. Like, I don't know what, you know, and so they, they were punishing me for a lot of different things. And I was misbehaving, but this is like a testament to the, to the fact that, you know,

that the teachers were completely oblivious to trying to help me. They just saw this kid who was an asshole. And because of my last name, my father grew up in that school system. And my father was a troublemaker and spent his life in prison. So, like, I was just a, I was just a gay old kid, right? That's my last name. And so, um, one of the teachers, like, took me out in the hallway and yelled and screamed at me.

The principal put his hands on me, like, trying to put me into a corner and I smacked him. And so they put me an alternative school. and then from alternative school they said if you get in trouble again you're going to Juvie and so I had to get out of that school system I had to leave so I go back to the city schools I live with an aunt and an uncle I lived with them for like I don't know

three or four or five weeks they had a baby on the way so they're like hey you know you gotta go we can't take care of you and so I'm just like bouncing around these different houses living with different people for like four six months or so this is going on and just surviving like just waking up going to school

coming home to the place where I lived sleeping in a random bedroom, eating whatever they had made for dinner. And it's a miracle. Like, it's truly a miracle I'm here because that's not supposed to happen. Like kids that are 12 years old

are not supposed to be doing that. And I'm just like plugging away, just surviving somehow. And during this time, you know, Mondo was still my place to lean on. And by this time, by the time I was 12 years old, the sexual abuse

had kind of fully evolved into basically everything that you can do to a kid. And like I said earlier, it was, he was very strategic and methodical. It was very patient with everything. And went from just touching me to putting his whole hand in my pants to, you know, using his hands on me, whether it was masturbation or trying to penetrate me. And, you know, there's a lot that I could talk about there. I can remember being back in his bed and there was no, it was so dark. He had black sheets, black blankets.

It was just completely blacked out back there. And there was no clock. So there's no time. There's no reference for time. Like I could never go back there and be like, okay, it's, you know, I got 30 minutes and I'll be done. I got 45 minutes and I'll be done. It was like it just felt like hours. It's, it's like being in the middle of the ocean at night.

And you just, you're just trying to keep your head above. water and the waves just keep coming. And it just, it, you know, you know that you maybe know that the boat or somebody's coming to save you, you just don't know when. So it just feels like forever. And I could never like dissociate with it. I could never like detach and back away and like put somebody else there. I was just fully present and miserable the entire time. I mean, I hated it. I hated every second of him touching me. And, You know, it just, like I said, it starts with just a little bit of touching. And then, you know, you're laying there.

And then he's saying that he loves you and that you're the only thing that matters to him. And that if it wasn't for me, he would kill himself. And as long as I'm, as long as I'm there with him, he won't kill himself. And so I'm dealing with like all these like emotional relationship type pressures at 10. Yeah. And guilt at 10, 11, 12 years old. And, you know, you're just, he starts to touch you. And then he starts to try to do things.

with you. And I resisted as much as I could. I mean, I resisted as much as I possibly could. But eventually, there's a part of you that knows that like, okay, if I just do this,

maybe he'll be done. You know, maybe this will be all over, right? I just do this. It's interesting. I heard a, I didn't know how to talk about this part,

but I had heard a girl talk about being raped. And one of the questions that girls get asked a lot is like, why didn't you stop him? Why didn't you get up? Why didn't you run? And to be clear, like, I think those are great questions. I don't think they're attacking. I know that a lot of people do think that,

but I think they're great questions because this girl was able to explain it in a way that's like enlightening for other people to understand why this happens and why they maybe, you know, quote unquote, let it happen. Yeah. Because they're, they, the girl was complicit and the way she had said it. She said she had let the guy rape her because he's bigger and stronger. and so what happens if she doesn't let him rape her? Right.

Does he kill her? Does he beat her? You know, what happens? Like, he's going to, if he's gone this far, what, like, there's not much that's going to stop him from reaching his goal, right? So out of her best interest is to let him do his thing, be done with it, and then report him, right? And that's how she explained it.

And so it actually brought me a lot of, like, clarity on the situation because a lot of People were like, why wouldn't you just get up and run or get up? Why wouldn't you kill him? Why not? Why wouldn't you do this? And I've thought about it a lot in my adulthood. And I guess that's probably why. It's like this guy was 6.6.380 pounds.

If I didn't let him do what he wanted to do to me, what was he going to do? Well, I think, too, besides that aspect, you did form that bond in that relationship. So it's like that, that two-sided thing of, well, I hate this and I hate this man and I hate what he's doing. But that sense of also needing him, like needing his support and needing that almost like safety in a way, but like in a twisted way, but that he did provide that for a period of time. And I think too, as a child, you cling on to those moments like because there was a portion of a couple months where that wasn't happening, you said, right? Right. So I think as a child, like you kind of hope, okay, maybe it won't happen again. Or like maybe it could go back to how it was when I was just coming here in the beginning and that wasn't happening.

and we were just playing games and eating pizza. And, you know, I don't think it's as simple as you don't, when you're that age, you don't have the brain and the mindset that an adult does to think logically and clearly and to even understand and grasp what's actually happening to you. Yeah, it's crazy, right? And, I mean, even as even adults sometimes can't because you're attached to this like, because it's very slow. And so even when we started hanging out, it was like 90% video games.

Yeah. It's like 90-10 and then it's like 80-20 and 70-30. And then it slowly becomes where I would go to his house. And at 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon, he would go back and laying his bed because that's what he wanted, you know? And so it went from being all video games and like a little bit of like just a little bit of pain to like it eventually was just like I got to his house. He would go lay down his bed.

And what he would do is he would punch the wall behind him. And he would just punch the wall and just boom, boom, boom. And I'd be out there playing video games. And the first time it happened, I went back there. I was like, hey, like, what's going on? Are you all right? And when I went back there, he pulled me into the bed with him. And he began to molest me. And so from that point forward, that's what he would do. He would just lay in the bed and he'd punch the wall. And when he did, it was like ringing the dinner bill for him. You know, it's like calling for room service,

basically. And I would sit out there. And when he would hit the freaking wall, like, I'd be playing video games. And I would just, my stomach would just sink. Because I'm just like, and, And this is what I mean when I'm like feeding the beast, I guess. I know that if I know that if I go back there, I'll be done in 30 minutes or an hour. If I don't, I have to deal with the emotional like pressure and guilt and shame and whatever feeling like the psychological torment for the next, however long I decide to resist it. Yeah. Whether it's 30 minutes, an hour, two hours. You know, sometimes I'd act like I, I just wouldn't.

give him the attention. And he would just punch the wall, boom, over and over again. Or I would hear him like take these deep sighing breaths, you know. And because he was just 15 feet from me. He's just behind this curtain, you know? And so, um, it's like, oh my gosh, it's just crazy. And so, um, this whole time I'm balancing around living with different people. still going to his house on the weekend, still calling him during the week.

And he's like coaching me through all this. He's helping me get through it all. And this is what you were talking a minute ago about, like you think about all these good times that you have with this person, right? So this is what's really twisted about sexual trauma, especially prolonged sexual trauma and abuse. So statistically speaking, 78% of the time is somebody in your household. It's by mom, dad, brother, sister, somebody in your immediate family. over 98% of the time it's somebody in your immediate circle.

So churches, coaches, schools, whatever, right? Somebody who you know and you trust closely. And what makes that worse is that the person that sexually abuses you is likely the same person that taught you how to ride a bike, makes your breakfast in the morning, you know, helps you with your homework. Is that your football games? Is that your basketball games? It's cheering year one.

So the person. that is doing arguably one of the most detrimental things that you can do to somebody is the same person that is helping you achieve these like milestones through life. And so that's what makes sexual trauma so difficult to cope with, basically, because your brain does not process good and bad. It just processes like memories. So if I have good and bad memories with you, I just have memories of you, good and bad. I cannot filter out these bad ones, right? And so So similarly with combat, like first responder type of PTSD, that's what makes it so difficult is because they're with their best friends.

And with their best friends, they had these really good moments where they're laughing and joking it and then maybe your buddy gets killed, right? Well, the memories you have, they're all tied together. You can't get rid of, so you don't want to forget your buddy, but you don't want to remember him getting killed, right? So sexual trauma is the same way. You know, you don't want to forget all those good moments you have. somebody but you also don't want to hang on to the bad you know and so and your memories or your

memories it's you know you can't really forget some things right and honestly too i think that it's not like you had anything great to compare to right you know like it's not like you had this good normal childhood or you know you went through some serious shit prior to that so it's kind of like like at some point you just accept it yeah like maybe i think you start to question too like is this normal? Like, does this just happen to everybody? Like, because it's just over and over again, you're just being dealt these cards. Yeah, I think a lot of people do deal with that. And I think I did for some time until I was, I was probably like 10 or 11 or 12 or so when I realized like things were not, this was not normal, you know? I did, I mean, I was a very aware as a young man.

So I did deal with that for a while, but I think I probably 10, 11, 12 years older. So, especially by the time I was 11 or 12, I was like, this fucking sucks. Like, this is not. normal, you know? And, um, but you know, what's scary about that too is like during those moments, he would, his plan was when I turned 18, we wouldn't have to hide this anymore. It wouldn't have to be a secret, you know. And he, um, one of the things that's like really disturbing for some reason, despite everything that happened is he ended up buying like, this is like embarrassed. This is still embarrassing to talk about. Um, he ends up buying me a, uh, like a leopard print like thong to like wear around his apartment, you know,

and like parade around it, which is, I don't know why, like, that disturbs me more than like some of the other things. But, yeah, it was just tough. And so there's like all these just, it's just twisted every time I'd go to his house. And I mean, he had a roommate that lived with him at, I think probably when I was around 12 or so, 12 or 13,

that roommate moved in with him. So this other grown man is living with him. And just oblivious or stupid. I don't know. But, and while I was bouncing around all these different houses, shortly after Christmas that year, I had not talked to my mom in like four or five, six months. And I get a random phone call at this house. And I was living with a family. So there's a husband.

It was like a middle class family. A husband, wife, a couple kids. Very average family. You know, nothing crazy. But a family nonetheless. And I was very happy to be living with them. and I get a phone call one day and it's my my mom is on the other end of the phone and I'm kind of like hello and she's you know hey where are you at I'm going to come and get you and at 12 years old I have to tell my mom um you know I don't want to live with you anymore like I don't want to go back to that like I don't want to live with you I'm living with these people and um instead of once again of like a hey I'm sorry I love you and you know I want to fix everything she screams at me and says you know you're my fucking kid you're my responsibility like I'm going like I'm going like I'm going like like I'm going to come and get you and I'm just heartbroken and terrified because I do not want to

go back to live like that, you know, no utilities and drugs and like no food. I don't want to go back to that life. And I just crying and crying and the father of that household asked me if I wanted them to adopt me and I said yes. Unfortunately, you know, they're not related to me by any, by at all. So there's likely no chance that they could adopt me. My mom could just come and take me whenever she wanted technically. So, and, yeah, so I don't know how my grandparents get contacted.

My grandparents come and pick me up like a week or two later. And, you know, when they picked me up, I was so excited because we get back to their house. My grandparents are well off. My grandpa, he retired from Florida. And my grandma was like running her own business. And so they lived out in the country, had two nice cars, big house, big finished basement, pool in the backyard. Like, I was so excited.

I was like, oh my God. Yes. I'm like, we get out Grandma, grandpa's house and both my sisters are there. I did not know that. And I'm like, holy shit. And I'm like, guys, like, we made it. Like, we finally made it out, you know?

And I was so excited. And, um, you know, within a week or two, my mom had been calling my sisters while we were at my grandparents' house. And my grandma would let my mom talk to us. And, uh, She didn't really bother talking to me, probably because I told her I didn't want to live with her anymore. But she was manipulating my older sister to get to my younger sister to convince them to go back and live with my mom. And so they did.

My sisters came to my grandma after a couple weeks and asked her to take them back and live with her mom. And I stayed there. You know, my grandparents asked to adopt me. I said, yes. I stayed with them. My sisters left. They went back to live with my mom. In fact, they went back to a house that had no utilities.

and their life took a different path from that point forward. I stayed with my grandparents and most people and even myself would say like, well, he finally made it out and I'm sure everything was like great from that point forward. Unfortunately, in conversation with Mondo, you know, I told him over the phone, like I have a family now. I actually told him this before I got to my grandparents when I was living with that other family. I said, you know, I have a family now. Like I don't need you anymore is what I told him because he was at. asking like why I had not come to his house for like a week or two straight.

And I told him, I said, well, I have a family now, you know. And when I told him that over the phone, he's like, you know, what do you mean? Like, you don't need me anymore, you know? And so I'm 12 years old trying to like, trying to explain. It's like trying to break up with a girl. And you're like, hey, I don't want to do this anymore. And then the girl just freaks out, you know, she's like, what do you mean? You don't want to do this?

Like, you don't want to be with me. Give me another chance, you know? I'll change. And it's love bombing is what they call it, right? And so that's what we're. what he had done to me is, um, in a weird way. He had like kind of love bombed me into like, um, you know, Seth, I love you so much and, and, uh, you're the only thing that matters to me. Like, how could you say that to me and this and that? And so I was like, okay, okay,

like, I'll come back, you know. And so when I moved in with my grandparents, I had to tell my grandparents, like, I've got this friend that I want to hang out with and they're like, well, who is he? And I tell him and they're like, no, we're not, we're not doing that. And so I'm like, no, he's not, he's not like that. He's not weird. Trust me, he's fine. And I tell him, you know, Jacob knows him. And my grandparents knew Jacob. And Jacob vouches for him as well, I believe. Was there any part of you that thought about telling your grandparents in that moment or no? I think I wanted them to stick to their guns of like, no. Right. You know, I didn't want to say anything. I'll get to that point here in a minute. But I think I wanted them to be to just say no. And so

So they were like, well, we want to meet him. And so when he showed up to meet my grandparents, he made him laugh and smile. And he's good to go, you know? And so this whole time that I had known him for almost three years, I was always going to his house. I was always part of his family. Well, now I was the other way around.

Now Seth was the 10 year or the 12 year old kid with a 30 year old friend, 34 year old friend, you know. And so now he was coming to my house for my birthday parties, Thanksgiving, Christmases, all of those. those things. Because he, you know, so I guess part of me to answer your question was I just, I think part of me was like maybe thinking that my grandparents would like not let this happen. Yeah.

You know, and they didn't. And, you know, when you do anything repeatedly and then you stop doing it, people are always going to ask you like, why did you stop? You know, whether it's drinking or smoking or seeing somebody, you know, if you had a boyfriend that you were seeing and then you just randomly stop, it's like, well, what happened? Well, something happened because you don't just stop hanging out with somebody, you know, something happened. And so that was part of what was keeping me attached to them is that I had known him for so long. And if I just stopped hanging out with them, people might ask questions, you know.

So you have all of these thoughts going through your head, all these things circulating that are, that perpetuates situations, you know. And the perpetrator or the abuser, they know it as well. They know that they're planting all of these seeds that's going to keep. you attach to them and depending on them, right? And so that's kind of where I was at with him. So I go back to his house and the abuse, the sexual abuse continues for the next almost three years. And by the time I was 13 years old, he, so I guess just a few months later, probably six

to nine months later after moving in with my grandparents, he eventually rapes me for the first time. And, you know, I remember. everything about that that whole night um you know i'll spare you the details but when he was done he like wipes me up with a towel and cleans me up and uh i go to the bathroom and i'm sitting on his toilet and i'm just crying and i'm just like heartbroken and i'm thinking to myself like why why me like why don't i have a mom why don't i have a dad like why did all of these horrible things have to happen to me. Like, why am I the one who has to go through all this shit?

And I just wanted to die. And I was so scared. I was so scared of like diseases. I was scared I had HIV or AIDS or some sort of disease. I was scared that people were going to think that I was gay or that like, why is Seth sleeping with this man? Like I was so terrified of so many things. And at this point, um, I couldn't report him because when you report somebody or something like that, you are not only telling on that person, you're telling on yourself in a way. You're admitting that, like, you were complicit, right, to these things or this incredibly embarrassing and shameful thing,

which I think is interesting when you talk about survivors or victims of rape and sexual abuse or domestic violence is a lot of people will say you have nothing to be ashamed of. You have nothing to be embarrassed about. But that's embarrassing. Yeah. And there is like a level of like shame that you feel, you know? And so, um, my advice and as far as like shame and embarrassment goes is, uh,

I think it's okay to feel those things for survivors. I think it's okay that you feel ashamed or embarrassed. Um, because those are totally normal. And so for anybody to tell you to not feel that way, I think, um, the better way to put it is like, I would understand why you feel that way. I understand that you feel ashamed. were embarrassed. And that's how I felt like I couldn't report it because once again, I would be telling everybody everything that I had done or been a part of, you know. And it's, I just,

I just didn't want to do that. I didn't want anybody to know that I had done those things, you know? And although they were not my fault, I like allowed those things to happen because I laid there, right? So, um, I was just terrified. I was so scared. And so the abuse goes on for a couple more years. I remember being 15, or I was almost 16 years old. I was a month away from being 16. And I'm up at his house and I had a younger friend that was with me. Well, Mondo begins to make comments towards this kid.

It was just a Friday night. And this kid's having a bad day or whatever. And so Mondo says to him in front of me, he says, you know, if you're having a bad day, I could take you back in the bed and blow you. and when Mando says that, you know, I had heard these things many times over the years, right? And I knew it wasn't a joke. Despite us all laughing it off, like I knew it wasn't a joke. And that was the first time that I'd ever seen another kid go back into Mando's bed with him.

And that kid goes back there for, it wasn't very long. Mando comes back out and, you know, whatever. The rest of the night kind of goes on. Well, when Mando went back there, I ended up messaging Jacob on a video game that I was playing. And I tell Jacob like, hey, I need to talk to you on Sunday when I come home. And all he says is okay, which is really good because when Mando comes back out, had Jacob continued to message me, Mando would have seen it in the chat on the game. And he would have seen that I had said to Jacob, I want to talk to you Sunday.

And you can imagine that his head would have started. He would have been clicking on all cylinders like something's going on, you know. And so, thank you. Thankfully, Jacob just says okay. And that's all he says. And so I was able to hide the chat and kind of close out the game. Well, that weekend goes on. Unfortunately, I was raped again that weekend on that Saturday night.

And Sunday rolls around and we go home. Mondo drops me off first, takes my younger friend home. And Jacob shows up about an hour or so later. And we're walking around my house, walking around the property. We're laughing and joking with my grandparents. and then we go into my bedroom and I'm pacing back and forth in my room and I'm just telling Jacob like, hey man, this is something I've been wanting to tell you for a really long time. And Jacob at this point is in college, he's like posting on Facebook drinking.

He's with all these girls and he's like living the life, you know. And he was every bit of a father figure that I had. Like if you could have an older brother who's like, you know, just tough, right? Your father's like this, like, he's like this guy that's like, no, nothing can happen to him. Like, he's just, he's the man. Like, he's, like, that guy that you love so much. That's who Jacob was to me. He was my, my role model. He was the person that I idoled who I wanted to be, you know. And so, um, he was like 21, 22 at the time. And, uh, I'm pacing back and forth. I'm just like, man, you know, I've been wanting to tell you

this for a long time and this and that. And I cannot say the words. I can't, can't get them to come out of my body. I'm just panicking. I'm scared of denial and rejection and all of the things, right? And I kind of quiet down. My heart is like racing and Jacob just breaks the silence. And he says, Mondo touched you, didn't he? And I fall apart. I fall to the floor and I'm crying.

I remember there being hardwood floors again. And I'm just like punching the floor. And similarly to like when my mom was taken away from me, like I had those same emotions like just this years and years of like suffering coming through my body. And I can just remember being so cold and laying there on the floor, screaming and crying. He breaks the silence again. He says he did it to me too. And I couldn't believe it. At that point, I was just, I was not worried about myself anymore. I was focused on him. Like, I just turned and looked at him like, that's what I mean when I say he was this, nothing would

happen to him. Like, this wouldn't happen to him. He's like too tough for this, you know? And I couldn't believe it. And so I stand up and he says to me, you know, he's like, what do you want to do you want to report him or do you want to keep it a secret? He said, I'll follow your lead or whatever you want to do. And I was like, no, we got to report him. Like, we got to go get this guy because he's about to start doing it to my younger friend who Jacob also knew. And he's like, all right, he's like, let's do it. So we walk out of my room, we go tell my grandparents. And we sit down in the sunroom and I can't talk again, but I'm crying. And my face, my face was flushed and so my grandma knows something's wrong you know and she's kind of like concerned

and um jacob just says uh you know it's mondo and i can like hear my grandma like today like the faint you know like my baby my baby and like she's like crying um from across the room and uh i get up and go and hug her because i can just you know she's just like oh no and she's like my baby my baby my baby my baby and so i get get up and I go give her a hug and I'm just like apologizing. I know it's not my fault, but I had let this guy into our house and I had like created his trust and like all these things and my grandma was just crying. And what really hurts the most about that is after I published my book, I found out that she had lived a very traumatic life growing up. She had dealt with

her own abuse and from as a child and even in her marriage, previous marriages. And, you know, just she had just this crazy ass life and I had no idea. And the for the three or I guess for the six years that I lived with them, five, six years that I lived with them, I resented and hated my grandma so much because I thought she was just like this mean bitch who had like nothing to complain about, you know? Meanwhile, she was dealing with all this trauma and depression and all these things. I had no idea, you know. And I say that hurts because unfortunately she's not here.

more. And I wish she was so that she could see what I'm doing. You know, she would be very appreciative of what I'm doing with all of this shit that I've been through. Um, unfortunately she died in 2019, but, uh, at the moment, you know, we call the police. They say go down to the hospital. So go down to the hospital. I'm in the nurse's room and there's a couple nurses, you know, my, my grandpa, Jacobs in there. And the nurse is asking me like, Seth, you know, you know, know, do you have any dirty clothes at home? Do you have anything that you've worn to his house recently that we can, um, that we can, you know, get his, that we can take and test.

And, um, I told the nurses, I said, well, you know, he just raped me like last night, 15 hours ago, something like that. And when I, and I said, you know, I haven't taken a shower and I haven't changed my clothes because I knew I wanted to keep everything on me when he did that. Um, and the nurses were just blown away. their mouth dropped. Like you could hear the silence. Like it was deafening.

And they're just, the nurse, I remember she gets down and she's like on a knee. She grabs me. She's just like, you are like incredible, you know. And she said,

you are so brave and we are so proud of you. And so then they say, you know, we want to get your clothes off of you. And they take my clothes off. They go test them. They swab my whole body up. They do the whole test kit thing.

Shortly after that, this freaking police officer walks in the room. And his name is Chad couples from Bluffton, Ohio. And Chad walks in and I had seen Chad before. I didn't know who he was. I just, his wife was my teacher like three or four years prior. And he would come to school on like Veterans Day or Memorial Day because he had served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And so he would come to school in those days and kind of just talk about the war or whatever, his military service. So I had seen this guy before. And when he walks in, I see his last name. And I'm like, hey, is your wife, Mrs. Cupp? And he's like, yeah, it's my wife. And so I was like, oh, like, you know, whatever, she's my teacher. And so we're sitting here talking and I have to tell, well, Chad tells me, he says, you know, Seth, the more you tell me now, the less that we will have to talk about later.

So I pour out these, the most horrific details of the last six years of abuse that I had gone through. And I tell Chad, you know, it's gone on every single weekend for almost six years. like probably, I don't know, 400, 500 occasions of abuse. And I tell him about being raped. I tell him about having oral sex performed on me. I tell him about having to reiterate that. So as a boy, he was going through like puberty, and I should be like hanging out on the weekends with my friends

and having fun and talking to girls and all of that. these things, I was spending my weekends having sex or performing a variety of sexual acts with a grown man, you know? And then I had to explain all of those things to another man. I had to look at him in his eyes and tell him all of these things. And as I looked at Chad and trying to like talk to him, I couldn't even look at, like, I was looking at him in his eyes, but like I just, I wasn't seeing him. I like, it just, to look at somebody in their eyes and tell him these things, it's very painful. And so, um, I, I began to, um, I began to, you know, to disclose to Chad all these horrific moments.

And he's taking notes. He's like, okay, you know, good job. And I walk out. Chad leaves the hospital and very long story, but he goes up and he arrests Mondo that night. Amondo gets, does a slight confession, not nearly to the amount of the things that he had done, but confesses to a little bit. They arrest him.

I go home and that was it for me. Like nobody contacted me after that. I think I went back to the station maybe one more time for a brief discussion. But there was no therapy. There was no crime victim services. There was no help. There was like nobody reached out to me from that point forward. A few months later, we find out that, or maybe it was, you know, I don't know, six months later,

we find out that Mondo was initially charged with 10 felony counts between me and Jacob. And they offered him a plea deal. So he got charged with four of the counts. and he was sentenced to 10 years in 2011. So he abused me and Jacob for about 10 years between the two of us. He abused me at least three, 400 times, if not more than that. He had raped both of us many, many times. He ran a haunted house out of his mother's front porch

and his hometown of Bluffton, Ohio, where like 2,000, 3,000 kids every year would come through. And he was always at the end, hand, candy out to all these kids. And he was given a 10-year sentence. And that was it, though. I mean, that was it. That was it.

And I just, I got my braces off like a week later. I had a new smile. I like went to the fairgrounds, talking to girls, walked around like nothing that had happened. I felt like I was fine. I was so used to trauma and like just craziness that I was like, I was good to go. Like, I'm fine. Like, it's not a big deal.

I just kind of kept. kept it moving, you know. I mean, I felt good for the fact that, like, I had this weight off my shoulders, but I was kind of like, I don't know what I'm going to do on the weekends now. Like, I'm kind of bored. So I did start to find friends. I did start to hang out with people. You know, I, I was very hypersexual as a young man. Every girl that I talked to was very transactional. I just thought that they wanted to have sex all the time. I would text a girl or whatever or go in a date with a girl. And I just assumed that. like, yeah, we're going to have sex.

Like, it's just this thing. Yeah, that's the point. Yeah, exactly, right? I didn't know why you would talk to somebody if you're not going to have sex with him. Like, it just didn't make any sense to me, you know? And because I had been manipulated in my whole life from my mother, you know, the first chapter in my book,

it is what happens in our house, stays in our house. And my mom had manipulated us from a young age to not tell anybody anything. And then I ended up getting manipulated by this guy, right? And so then it carries on into me where I ended up manipulating everybody around me. I'm manipulating everybody. you know, girls, coaches, friends, everybody.

You know, I go back to school. You know, that following year, I ended up joining the Army when I was 17. I was a junior in high school. I joined the Army shortly after that. I was actually in class one day getting a bit of a lecture from one of my teachers, who I actually loved and respected, one of my favorite teachers. But he's kind of given me a lecture on if I kept behaving the way that I was behaving the military wasn't going to work out for me. They were going to kick me out eventually

because I was just like mouthy and cocky and whatever. And the whole time he was talking to me, I was thinking to myself, like if I had a gun, he wouldn't say any of this to me. Well, being the young, emotional idiot of a kid that I was, I go home and I put it on Facebook and I say, you know, sometimes when my teachers are talking to me, I just think that if I had a gun, they wouldn't be saying, you know, they wouldn't say anything that they're saying something to that effect. And I end up deleting the post later that night. A couple hours later, I ended up deleting it. But the next day I show up to school, I get called down to the office early in the

morning. And the principal had already seen it from the night prior and already reported me. And so the principal says, you know, Seth, we saw this last night. And this is very serious. And, you know, we're going to, we're going to handle this like with the fullest extent of the law, you know, whatever that entails. So they, they're getting ready to call the police and all these things. And I just break down. I'm crying and crying and crying in his office. I remember I was had my head in my hands and I'm just like, please, like, I'm sorry. It was, I don't mean it. Like,

I was never going to do that. Like, I just, I was frustrated, you know, I was trying to explain myself, but it didn't matter. I had already said it and they were going to handle me. And I had a wrestling coach who, uh, who walked in the office at that moment. And, And he kind of like walks past and he sees me and they're crying. He kind of looks at me and I haven't been wrestling for a couple years at this point. And so he knew me and he loved me to death, but I was on knucklehead too. So like we had this very like father-son kind of coach relationship where like they love you, but they'll like smack you in the head, you know, if they need to.

And he walks past the office and he sees me in there and I'm crying and he's like, what the hell's going on? And he walks in and I tell him what happened. and he's like his first response initially was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, why would you do that, you know? And I just, you know, I'm so scared and I'm crying. And because if they kick me out of the army,

like I don't know what's going to happen. Or excuse me, if they send me to jail or Juvier or anything like that, they'll kick me out of the army, you know. And so I'm just terrified. And he walks out, principal walks back in a few minutes later. And the principal just says to me, you know, you're lucky you've got some people in this building that really care about you. I can only imagine my coach went out there and told him like don't do this to Seth.

Like do not, don't punish him. Like just, you know, don't call the police, whatever it is. Like just do something else. So they give me alternative school for a week. And I tell that story because, you know, to my knowledge, I think my coach, Coach Abby, was the first person, one of the first, if not the first, to like intervene and protect me. when like my whole life I had gone like without anybody doing that

like my whole life I had gone where like people had seen me hurting and kind of like turned the other cheek you know kind of just like kind of walked away from it where he like there was no question never something like that would happen there was nobody questioned it and wondered like why is this happening

yeah yeah and he just stepped in and like put his name on the line and just like and my life would have went a completely different way had I gone to jail or Jubey I don't know what would have happened, but I wouldn't have made it out, like, the way that I have, you know. So, you know, fortunately enough, I joined the military and I served in the Army for about nine years or so. Since then, I've gone all over the world.

I've been all over Europe, Africa, Dominican Republic, went to Afghanistan in 2019. during that deployment is when I found out that my grandmother had died. But also I found out that Mando had died in prison. Wow. Yeah. So I ended up getting a call about him dying. So I got married in 2017, I think. And while I was in Afghanistan, my wife texted me and said, hey, just so you know Mando died.

today and it was a December yeah 2019 and um you know what's interesting about that is a lot of people a lot of people will like they're happy you know they're like hey i'm glad he's dead and i'm glad you know i hope he got prison justice and i hope he's burning in hell or i hope you know what he did happen to him like all these like hateful things right and i've almost like never said those things but especially as of late as I tell when I tell my story like I don't ever talk about anybody in my story my mom my dad my sisters my uh the abuser anybody with us like hate or resentment because it's it's just poison and I think that's part of like the healing journey is that when something happens to us we want like justice and we want like we want something to happen to that person that that um will make us

happy right we want them to feel pain or to be punished or something we want something to we want them to feel pain, right? And for me, I was never really like that. But especially now, I don't really care. Like, supposedly he died of a staff infection. But when I was told that he was dead, it didn't have any impact on me. I wasn't happy. I wasn't, like mad.

I wasn't, you know, I was just kind of like, yeah, it is what it is. And what I've learned now is that, you know, carrying this, like, resentment or this hate or this, like, desire for somebody else to feel pain because you felt pain, it's just poison and it's just going to hold you. back. It's a lot heavier than just letting it kill. Right. And, you know, I think that's part of the healing process that I've kind of gone through. Um, it does not have any, any resentment because I've carried resentment and hate my whole life. Um, I carried it throughout my entire marriage. I carried it throughout my entire childhood. The entire time I was in the military. I mean, I was in the infantry.

I was in the 82nd Airborne division running and gunning, jumping out of planes, doing all this tough guy shit. Uh, I was a team leader. I was in charge of other men to go to lead them through combat. And the whole time I was battling this, like, massive identity crisis because I resented everybody, you know. It didn't matter who you were. I thought that I was better than you because I had been through more pain and suffering than you. I thought I was tougher than you because I had been through more pain and suffering than you.

I think that a lot of people think that they carry this, like, this innate or inherited, like, resilience because they've been through adversity. And I would challenge that by saying, you know, I think adversity doesn't make you inherently resilient. In fact, I would say it makes you weak, vulnerable, and, you know, I mean, any kind of adversity can very likely contribute to, like, detrimental things in your life, whether it's addiction or abuse or whatever it is, right?

Like adversity breaks most people, in fact. It's very rare that somebody goes through a significant amount of adversity and comes out on the other end of resilient person. And I'm like a testament to that because I did not come out this like tough person. I was very insecure. I was very manipulative, deceitful, abusive, you know. I was abusive towards my soldiers and weird ways where I just had this power dynamic. because I was a team leader.

And so I just crushed guys. I crushed them. I would punish them. And not for nothing, but just excessive, you know. I was that way with my wife. I treated my wife like a soldier. My wife comes from a good family. She's got a mom and a dad and brothers and sisters.

And, you know, big old happy family comes from money. And so I resented her for that, you know? She didn't know what is like to struggle, right? So I just had this deep hate for her. So you have all of these like these, and that resentment comes from the insecurities, right? So this, once again, this notion that, like, I've been through things, so I'm tough. It's like, it doesn't make you tough, not to burst your bubble, but if you're treating everybody around you like shit, and if everybody's walking on eggshells around you,

you're not this, like, tough, resilient person. You're an asshole and you're insufferable. And I say that with the most empathy, because I was that person. And I think that, you know, it's funny when you hear people talk about somebody else and they'll say, you know, the decision to heal is on you. The decision to get through this victim mentality is on you. The decision to do better, to be better, to work harder. Like, that's your decision. You have to make that decision.

And when you do, you'll be better, right? And I've been guilty of kind of being like that, almost like I don't know or almost like I forgot where I came from. And so as of late, I've, I say that the decision to heal it is on you, but I get it. Like, I know how hard it is. I know how hard it is to like tell somebody that you love him or to be vulnerable. I know how hard it is to wake up in the morning and to go work out. I know how hard it is to look at your kids and love them and to be proud and to be happy for them.

You know, despite like when you're putting your kids to bed or you're loving or you're holding your kids and you're freaking sniffing their little freaking heads and like you love them to death, sometimes those moments are so painful because like you see yourself in that kid, you know? When I put my son to bed and I'm holding him at night, I would give him. anything to be five years old and four years old and have my father hold me and hug me, you know, I never had that. And so you develop this resentment. I mean, you'll hate your own kids. And what you have to do is you have to turn that into like this like deep and this isn't overused like buzzword, but like gratitude. And, you know, gratitude is like being so thankful that my son has a father, being so thankful that my daughter has a father, you know,

being so thankful that I have the life that I have and the people that I have in my life have not experienced the things that I have. As a combat veteran, a lot of leaders in the military will be so resentful of younger military or junior military members because they've not killed anybody or because they've never been to combat because they don't have a combat patch. And so they'll have this deep hate for this person like they're like they're unworthy or they're invaluable or like they don't, they're not special because they've never been to combat. Instead of being like, you know what, dude, I am so fucking happy you've never had to kill anybody. Like I had a deployment where thankfully I never had to get in any direct contact.

I never had to shoot and kill anybody. And I'm so thankful for that. At the time, I wanted that, like, I wanted that, you know. I wanted that that thing on my chest that says I've shot somebody or I've been shot at because I wanted people to know, like how tough I was, you know. I joined the military fresh out of high school because I wanted to to go to war, I wanted, like, Seth to be this honorable person that I had never been before. You know, what's interesting about sexual trauma or anything like that or child abuse or

there's no award for it. There's no trophy. There's no badge. There's no, like, honor. There's no title that I get with this. I'm not a Navy SEAL. I'm not a Green Beret. I'm not a Marine Raider or a par rescue guy.

There's no Medal of Honor that I get. There's nothing. there's nothing that I get that tells people what I've gone through or what I've done, right? So there's nothing honorable about it. It's not worth bragging about. Nobody would be proud of being abused as a child. Nobody is proud of being raped or molested, right?

Nobody's proud of being sexually assaulted or not having parents. Like, that's not something to be proud of, but that's something that I carry. And that's something that so many people carry. And a lot of times when you go through life like that, and you see these other people that, voluntarily went through and became a special operator in the military or voluntarily, you know, did X, Y, Z and they get some sort of award out of it. And they're labeled as a hero, right?

They're labeled as like this guy and you put them on a pedestal and they're like, they're this fantastic person and they're so tough and resilient and whatever, right? Meanwhile, the labels that people like me get are survivor and victim. And then we get put in this box full of people that are emotionally damaged, right? We're like damaged goods. We just get wrapped up, put in the back of the store, and somebody will deal with us at some other point. And so you go through life, like looking for this, like, validation, you know.

And that's what I had done. So I joined the military. And then I joined the infantry and I go to the 82nd Airborne Division. And I'm a paratrooper and I'm rough and tough and running and gun in. I'm working out all the time. I get out of the military. And it just didn't get any better. I get my first, my first civilian job and I work my ass off.

Like I worked four in the morning until 8 o'clock at night. Within the first year, I was the number one construction manager in the country nationwide where I had no education and no experience in construction. And I was at the top of this company crushing it. You know, I wanted the validation, you know. Nobody can suffer the way that I can. And so that's what I carried with me is like, nobody can outwork me.

Like nobody can, I will show up earlier, I will stay later, I'll do whatever it takes to get things done to prove to people how valuable I am. Okay. And I left that company and like they didn't blink. You know, they're just like, I thought that I was like this. I thought I was making everything turn. I left that company, they just kept moving. They didn't even call me, you know.

And then I started doing, I started running ultramarathons. I'm not a runner. I hate running. Running is like miserable. And in fact, I have a condition in both my legs. that makes it very painful for me to run. But I came across ultra-marathons, and I was like, oh, this looks like suffering.

Like, let me see. I can suffer. I know I can suffer. So let me do this. So then I get up and I go and run seven ultramarathons in nine months on like little to no training. I basically had no training on running, you know. I ran a hundred-mile race.

And all of those things, like all of the accolades, it's funny. I used to start off my story by telling people my accolades. And I would think that like people would find it inspiring or whatever or powerful. My accolades are hardly relatable when it comes to the amount of pain and suffering that I've gone through. The amount of like pain and suffering and emotional distress, like all of the, all of my failures in pain or things that I'm not comfortable talking about potentially are the things that most people relate to. Like if I tell you about my accolades, like most people are like, you want an award? Like, good job. I don't know.

What do you want? But when I talk about all of the things that I failed at, right? All the things that I've done wrong or all of the bad things that have happened to me that I'm that are that are painful to talk about. Those are the things that people are like, holy shit. Like I'm with you on that. Like I've been through that. I've seen that. I've done that.

I've gone through that. And, you know, in my adulthood, I was running. from all of my insecurities trying to prove myself in so many different ways, you know. And when I ran that 100 mile race, that was extremely difficult. But that was like the icing on the cake for me where I finally realized like I don't have to suffer anymore. Like I don't have to go through this anymore. I don't have to prove anything to anybody.

Or even to yourself. Yeah, or even to myself. And I never had to, right? But you feel this thing that's in you that's like I've got to. perform. I've got to execute. And there's this fear of success, too, that you have, right? So when you go through something painful or you're addicted and then you become sober, well, if you base your whole identity on the fact that you're sober, there's this like overwhelming pressure, I believe, to be sober. And so like, God forbid you have a drink or, or if you're on a diet and you're cutting

or whatever, and then you have a donut, and somebody sees you have a donut. And it's like, oh, you know, then there's like this pressure of like, I can't even like, I can't even fold a little bit. I can't mess up. I can't make a mistake, you know? So there's this like deep fear of success. And so when you're, you're like recovering from trauma or you're trying to get over your trauma, it's like you start to change and you start to be better. You start to do things better. You start running or, you know, I do jihitsu now. Or you start to live your life a little bit happier. And people look at you like, like, oh, you've changed. You know, like, what's wrong with you?

Or so there's this, and then you're worried about the outside's perspective of you, but you're also worried about like, I've come so far, like what happens if I fail? So some people can't even get going because they're scared of getting there and then falling off the track. You know, so it's truly terrifying. It's like, it's scary to think about, so it's easier to just sit in the basement and burn to death. Basically is what I'm getting at, you know. When you're in the basement, it's in the whole. whole house is on fire, like you've got two options, you know, if somebody throws a ladder down,

you can either climb out or you can sit there and die. They both hurt because when you're climbing out of the basement, the rungs are hot. Like you're going to have to suffer for 15 steps to get out of that basement, you know, and that hurts. And so when I talk about the healing process, you know, it is your decision to start, but you've got to be consistent and disciplined enough to kind of stay on that track, you know, because. Because it takes time. And I think that so many people, you know, I think so many people are putting this value or like this like set value on healing.

And so when they say they go to therapy and therapy's not working, they've been going to therapy for three months or six months and it's not working. Well, it's like, what is working do you mean? Like, what's that mean? Because if you're going to therapy, because like you're waiting to get like your stamp and it's like, hey, you've been healed now. you're good. You've been rehabilitated. You're good. You're never going to get that. Like, nobody's going to look at you and like stamp you and say, you're good to go.

If you've gone through a lot of trauma like I have, you're going to deal with this likely for the rest of your life. Right. So it's learning how to handle those things, right? I don't know if it ever gets any easier. We just have to learn how to manage it, right? I was going to say too. I don't think people always realize that therapy isn't supposed to be transactional. And granted, it, it can take a lot of trial and error to find. the right person to talk to, but it also takes self-work, and that's with anything in life. And going back to something that you said about doing things or a lot of things for validation, whether it was to prove yourself to others or to yourself, it takes reaching a certain point,

in my opinion, in your healing journey, to get to a point where you're doing things that you enjoy purely for the joy of it and not for the validation that you're seeking out of it, or to prove yourself to anyone or to yourself or like I think too maybe to a certain degree you were so accustomed to suffering that you wanted to find another way to suffer because that was the norm for you like even though you know you knew it wasn't right growing up and you knew you didn't want to live a life like that you were so I feel like it was so ingrained in you that it's like it seems like what other way is there you weren't taught another way you had to self-teach yourself that, you know? And that takes a lot of self-realization and

accountability. And, you know, I think that you go, you can go through all these horrible things. And that's one, that's one portion of your life. And that's horrible. No one deserves that. It's, it's more than traumatic. Like, there's really no word for it. But then there's the aftermath of it. And while, yes, you chose not to allow those. things to define you where you are now, you still kind of went through this period where it affected the way that you treated yourself and other people around you. And then now you're in another part of your journey and another part of your healing. But it's so raw and real and realistic that I think it's important for people to know about those different steps because

it's very easy to be hard on yourself in those different phases or to blame yourself or be like, well, I did this, this and this wrong, or to beat yourself up about it. But all you can do is constantly work on being the best version of yourself and to improve on the person that you are. Because at the end of the day, we really only have control over ourselves. And even then, that's still hard. You know, it's not an easy thing to do at all. Yeah, it's interesting.

You know, talking about like you're used to it. So you almost seek it out, right? My whole life, I wanted a wife and kids and a dog. I wanted the white picket fence because I'd never. had that. Like I would have dreams as a kid of like, man, like one day, like, I'm going to have all these things. And like, that's all I want. I just want a house with a family and kids. Like, I want to hear my kids running around, you know, and I got those things. And then I hated it because it was, it was too good. It was too perfect. And I just, I hated it. I hated that I could not

stand it, you know. And so that's when I talk about, like, resentment and why your words matter, the things that you say they matter. And so, um, you've got to focus on loving people so deeply because, uh, you can resent anybody for anything. My, my wife worked out, but she didn't work out the way that I worked out. So she didn't do my workout. So I did, I didn't like it. Um, she did the laundry, but she didn't do it the way that I wanted to done or she didn't do it all the time or, you know, um, you don't, when you envision this perfect picture of a life, you don't take into a count everything that you're feeling within and everything that you're going to feel or could feel when those things happen, especially when you add all of the trauma and everything that

you experience. Like when you were imagining those things, you were imagining like this perfect life because those things are beautiful and amazing. But with everything that happened, you weren't given the tools to know how to handle those things, you know, and to cherish those things to your fullest extent, I feel like in that moment, like you just, you can try and you can be angry at yourself, but you only can do so much based on what you've been taught and shown. I mean, even like besides what happened with you, with that man, even just seeing the dynamic of, you know, your mom and your dad and like the lack

of that, it's like, it makes so much. Not that it's any. sort of excuse, but it's very understandable why people don't have the necessary tools when they grow up, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, being neglected of things is almost just as traumatic as being abused. Yeah. It's almost just as detrimental as being abused.

So even nowadays with phones and TVs, so many, we have a lot of, we have a lot of, we have a lot of adults with children, not necessarily parents, because everything's so easy to just put a screen in front of a kid. And when you take that screen, you put it in front of them, you are just, you're neglecting that child of human interaction, of love and development and all of those things. And so there's a lot of interesting studies with that too. But yeah, when you're a child, like, even if I had not been abused, I was, well, I was one, I was neglected of fatherhood. And so you don't know how to treat women um you know you don't know how to treat your kids i had both my kids uh while i was broken i mean i was deep i was deep and depression and and anger and um you know

one of the more haunting things that i think that a lot of people would i have never seen nobody who would admit this but um i'll admit it because i know that other people feel it if i felt it and when I had my son, I remember being home from Afghanistan and holding him and he wouldn't stop crying. And he was just like two, three months old. And we're in a two bedroom apartment with two babies and I'm getting out of the military. I don't know what the hell I'm going to do when I get out. Like there's all this stress on me. Oddly enough, I had just watched the R. Kelly documentary, which really brought back a lot of like explanation and reasoning as to why my trauma was, I could see the, I could see what it was doing to me when I watched that documentary.

I could probably explain that at a second. But anyways, I was going through it bad. And I mean, I was more suicidal than I'd ever been in my entire life. And I would have, I wrote about it in my book where I had visions of killing myself and my wife and kids would come home and I would be dead and there'd be blood all over the carpet and they would see me and they would scream and cry and it'd be this big moment. And then they would have this funeral and all these people would celebrate me and all these people would come to me, they would finally be around me. Like, everybody who I wanted and needed

would finally be around me and see that I was hurting the whole time and that Seth wasn't an asshole. He just had a lot of pain and hurt in his heart. And so so many people, you know, just, I just felt like I was in a corner by myself. And in those moments with my son at night and even my daughter sometimes, I remember holding my son and just thinking like, I just wanted to kill him. I wanted to kill, I wanted to kill him. I wanted to kill myself. Like, I could just end it all for everybody. And so you have these people that do these things, they make these impulsive decisions, right? They kill their kids or they kill themselves. And people are wondering, like, how could you do that? That person's a monster. And if you think about what it takes to take your own child's

life, I mean, I'm not defending those people by any, by any stretch of the imagination, but these people are hurting. They're suffering. They're suffering and they have no support. and they have no help and all they have is judgment from everybody around them and it's so freaking hard to get out of that damn hole without somebody like with some ounce of empathy to pull you and to bring you with them I mean it's so hard when I like when I talk about like healing me and a decision and you got to make it that's what I'm saying like so many people will say well you got to you got to you know you got to stop being a victim you got to stop doing you got you got a you got and it's like Dude, I just like want some help, man.

Like, and it's just, it's just so hard. So there's people that are in those ruts, it's like I, I don't even know where to begin. I don't even, I didn't know, I didn't know where to begin. I didn't, like, I married my wife without talking to her dad. Like, we got married on a whim. Like, we didn't tell anybody for six months. Buying cars, getting credit cars, Maxine out on debt. Like, we're doing buying, we're doing like all this shit as young adults.

and mostly through me, and I had no examples of like what to do right. You know, I didn't have any role models. I didn't have anybody I could call. I just knew like to not do certain things. To stay out of trouble, don't do a couple things like drugs and this and that, and you'll be good to go. But I was never given any tools to life. I know how to survive.

That's about it, you know. I know how to suffer. I know how to endure. I know how to do hard things. And that's about it. And so, yeah, I mean, that's a freaking process. And when you do get the things that you wanted, like I said, when I got my white picket fence situation, it just, it wasn't, it didn't feel right. I almost felt, I was embarrassed to have a wife and kids and like a good paying job and a nice truck and too much money that I knew what to do with. I was like just as embarrassed about those things or like I hated those things as much as I hated growing up with nothing. you know, because you just don't, you don't feel worthy.

So there's like imposter syndrome. Yeah. You go through life like, I don't deserve you, you know. I don't deserve these things because of who I am. You know, you walk into a room, it's like I walk in here and, you know, you get some cameras on you. And you start talking about like, nobody's going to listen to this. Nobody's going to care about this. When I wrote my book, no shit, I wrote my book three times and deleted it.

three times because I was like, nobody's going to listen to this. Nobody cares. Like, it's not that bad. And, you know, it's, it's like, nobody cares. The story is heartbreaking, but nobody cares. Like, it's not, it's not a big deal. So then you go through life and this is when you, when I say your words matter, you know, you should be impeccable with your words.

It's, it's one of the agreements, one of the four agreements in a book. And what that means is, you know, so to be impeccable is to be without sin. sin by definition is to go against yourself. So when you are impeccable with your words, you don't go against yourself with your own words, right? The things that you say are what you will inevitably believe. And so as I was writing my book, I kept, I mean, I would type it out, delete it,

and type it out and delete it, type it out and delete it. And then the final time, I was like, you know what, fuck it, I'm going to tell it. And it is what it is. We're going to see what happens with this, you know? And I wrote my book. I told my story. And since then I have dealt with

you know, thousands and thousands of comments and emails and responses. And I've had men that are twice my age approach me and crying to my shoulder and tell me that I told their entire story through my own words, you know. So, you know, whatever you tell yourself is going to be true, good or bad, you know. And that imposter syndrome, you know, if you, I used to tell me. my wife that I don't deserve her. And I just had this conversation with her a couple weeks ago. We were in the car and I said, you know, I don't deserve you. And I'm so lucky to have you. And this was five minutes after I had just told her to stop being negative about herself or certain

things. And then I, right after I told her that her words matter, I began to berate myself, you know. And so what I said, I was like, you know what? I'm going to fix that. I do deserve you because I'm doing the things that are necessary to, or that warrant a happy, positive. life now, right? If you were doing things that you're not proud of in your past, that's okay. Like, you talk about forgiveness and resentment. Like, you've got to let yourself go as well. Like, let those things go.

Like, you made some mistakes. It's okay. At least you were trying, right? So if you didn't deserve somebody in the past and you do now, that's okay. Like, accept that. If, you know, if you don't, you know, I didn't deserve my wife a year or two ago. She stayed with me. And now I'm doing things that would warrant having a wife.

And so I do deserve her. I do deserve to have my kids. I do deserve love and happiness and to be loved. I do deserve like whatever it is that I want. When I walk into a room, I cross that threshold and I step into that room. I belong there, right? Like whether anybody else believes it or not, it's on me. Like I've got to, I made the conscious effort to go in there.

Like, I need to be there and belong there. So, you know, there's, yeah, there's a lot that, you know, you become. begin to learn and process, you know, and we are all so relatable. Everybody has adversity, you know, you've either gone through it or it's coming at some point in your life. So you can either, I mean, you got to prepare for it, you know, but the good times come and go, the bad times come and go. I think that's part of the healing journey is, like I said earlier, with the

stamp thing. You know, everybody's looking for this approval. Everybody's looking for success. I think I was looking for that. I thought that like maybe when I got married and had kids and got a house and a truck and all these nice things that like somebody would come by and be like, hey man, like you made it. Good job. You know, but it never happened. I think too, maybe a sense of like in your mind when you reach a certain and success could be labeled as anything. You know, it could be a job. It could be a family. But I think maybe too in your mind you may have thought when I get a little. here, everything that happened to me, like, it won't matter anymore. Yeah.

But we don't really consider and realize that that stuff never goes away, which isn't a bad thing because it does help us get stronger and gives us the strength and the ability to understand things that a lot of people don't. but it also forces us to face it head on and confront it and heal from it and deal with it. You know, and I think that that's too probably why you had those negative feelings, even when you got, when you reach that success, why you still felt sadness and anger and resentment because none of those past things went away. They were still just as real and just as much there.

you were just, you know, however many years ahead of it. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. I thought, I think that maybe when I was an adult, I thought that like achieving and success and accolade would like get rid of all these things. And it just doesn't, you know. And, you know, one of the things I've like realized too is that although our stories are sometimes like tragic and they're sad and they're heartbreaking, mine certainly is.

Like how much more traumatic or tragic would it be if it all went to waste? Right. You know, I got through all this shit for nothing. You know, I get through all of this pain and suffering for nothing. Like how tragic would that be to grow up and become an addict and to become or an alcoholic or... Or to take your own life?

Take my own life. Or, you know, do whatever, right? Waste my entire life. Like that's that that is the tragedy, I think. The tragedy is not and necessarily what you go through. It's what happens on the other end of it. Like what you do with it. Yeah, what you do with it, you know?

And like that's where I think that's the beauty and the tragedy of it all, right? It's like there's so much more life to live. I'm 30 years old. I've got so much more to give to this world. And all I want to do from this point forward is to share my story in a way that people can understand and relate to it. People that can heal through me. that's the beauty in it, you know. It's like understanding that like there's somebody out there that loves you.

There's a lot of people who are, you know, there's potential. Like you can have children, you can love your children, you can have a house and a job and a career and you can make impacts and like there's so much more beauty to life than everything that you've seen and gone through and endured, right? Like I said, the tragedy is not what we go through. It's when you waste it on the other end. You know, there's so much potential. There's so much untapped potential in everybody.

And all you have to do is like let that thing out. You know, whatever it is, you know, go and talk about it, go tell somebody or whatever you want to do. Go and do it, be happy and just be so thankful for the life that you have. I mean, I was born in a country that has given me the opportunities to do the things that I've done. Had I been born anywhere else in the world, I don't know that I would be here today. You know, we have so many opportunities and so many things that. that we could take advantage of every day. And, you know, so many people don't.

We let these things define us, you know. That's why, I mean, I don't know. I don't call myself a survivor. I don't call myself a victim. I just, I don't, like I said earlier, you put yourself in a box, I think, sometimes. I could have any mental health diagnosis I want. I could go to any therapist probably and be diagnosed with whatever I want. I've heard people with diagnosis talk about how they feel about things.

And I'm probably, and I'm like, yeah, I probably have that. I probably am bipolar to some extent. But I'm not going to live my life like that. You know, I used to walk into rooms and think to myself like, I don't have a dad. You know, I don't have a family. I don't belong here. Like, once again, with the Apostor syndrome.

And now I walk into rooms and I'm like, yeah, I didn't have a dad and I don't have a mom and look where I'm at. You know, I, I'm not a literary genius. And look what I've got. I've got a freaking book with my name on it. And I've got people that have endorsed a book who, believe in my message, you know. I've got people on the internet who have listened to my story in its entirety multiple times and reached out to me via email and Instagram and whatever to

freaking ask for help and advice. Like people are coming to me for help and it's like it's, it's incredible because for so long I just told myself like nobody's going to listen to this. Nobody's going to care, you know. And that like I said is what's beautiful about the tragedy. You know, it doesn't have to end with this heartbreaking sadness and painful story. Like my kids, like they will be so proud of their name, you know. I can't go back to Ohio and find anybody who knows a gale who's like a proud of this person or whatever, you know. And so to come from where I've come from, to be where I'm at, I'll never forget the things that I've gone through. I'll never forget where I come from.

But that's a good thing, you know, I, there's no obstacle in front of me from this point forward that if I want to accomplish something, whatever it is, I can, I can do it, you know. And I've accomplished a lot of things. You know, the thing I'm most proud of is probably being a conduit for healing for other people, you know, so many people who have endured the same things that I have or have not, have approached me, you know, and said that. The way that I've talked about things is incredibly powerful and healing for them. And I guess the last thing I would say is, you know, I don't ever want anybody to like look at me on a platform like this or any other platform and think that like they have to tell their story. I think you should certainly talk and process it and read and educate yourself on whatever

you've gone through. But me coming on this channel and talking or on another channel. or speaking on a stage does not make me any better. It doesn't make me more valid and you less. I've had a lot of people. The reason I say that is I've had a lot of people that say they wish they could talk about it the way that I do on platforms and things like that.

And you don't have to. Like it doesn't, you're not any less because you don't go out and, you know, be a hero. I'm not a hero because of what I'm doing, okay? So I just wanted to be clear that like, your mechanism of healing, whatever works for you, works for you, whether it's God or therapy or both or neither. I think that's, we talked about it before we started was, you know, with me, I'm not religious. I'm not, I've never been to therapy.

And I don't say those things to brag. I just say those things because if you're not one of those people, there's an opportunity for you to heal. Like you can still. Right. There's not only one way. Yeah. And I think when I was growing up, I mean, so many people were trying to get me into church. And I was never a church kid.

I was never a religious kid. And then even as an adult or as a young man, people try to get you to go to therapy. And then even as an adult, I mean, I recently spoke in Baltimore at a conference to a room full of social workers and therapists, share my story and how I've kind of overcome at all. And at the end, one of the first questions was, well, when did you go to therapy? and I told a room full of, it was like 150 people. And I'm like, oh, I've never been to therapy. And they lost their minds. In fact, they got quite disrespectful, like unprofessional and their following questions.

They almost took everything that I had said and like throwing it out the window because I had said I had not been to therapy, you know. I know that because I've gotten comments from the surveys from that conference where they said he needs to go to therapy. He's never seen a therapist, this and that. You know, so they had this like negative opinion of me because I've never gone to. therapy. And so the reason why I say, I used to be scared to say that I'm not a Christian because a lot of people, as soon as you say you're not a Christian, they're immediately like, oh, you hate God or whatever, you know, I don't have a hate for God. I don't have a hate for religion. It's just, I don't eat fish. I don't like fish. I'm not a Christian. It's just not my

thing. So therapy is kind of the same thing, you know. There's also time and time and money factor in there. But I say all those things because when I was in the place of healing, so many times people will just tell me like just pray and God will get you through this. God will get you through this. And like that never helped me at all. And so for some, I just felt like I was never going to get out of this place because I wasn't a Christian, you know, and I can imagine so many other people feel that way. Like if they're not religious, they either have to turn to God and give up their sense of self or their authenticity to heal or, you know, when people ask you, how did you overcome something?

And then somebody doesn't know how they overcame it. Well, the easy out is just say, God, I just prayed and God did it. Well, as a young man or even as an adult, when people told me that, I don't know what that means. Like, how the hell did you get whatever you got? You didn't become a millionaire because you prayed. Like you were doing, there was like these tangible steps. So when I tell my story, I give you like tangible ideas and things that you can actually work on, you know, that are going to help you become this like relentless, tenacious kind of purpose.

person to get through this shit, right? I don't, you know, whatever your mechanism of healing is, take it and run with it. But understand that you don't have to fit this mold that people think that you got to fit to heal. You know, like I said, I know as a young man and as an adult that never went to therapy and never went to church, people just told me those were the things that were going to fix me and they never worked for me. And not to be negative, but those things are not always sunshine and rainbows either.

So it's like, you know, on the chance that someone is going through something and they turn to either therapy or to religion. And for some reason, either they get a really shitty therapist or they're in a church that's like a cult, you know, like that could lead down a whole other form of trauma. So it's like I think that, you know, once again, anything can be. be negative, anything can be positive. Whatever works for someone. I 100% agree with you. But I do think that, like you said, there really, there is in one way. And I don't think that anybody should feel like they have to, not have to, but that their healing is validated more because of how they did it. Right. Well, so that's like kind of my point, I guess what you said right there. Because whenever I tell my story, you know, it's interesting. And people always ask me, they ask me those two questions all the time.

When did you go to therapy? What your relationship like with Christ? And when I tell every single time, it's like a no fail. And every time I tell them I've never done either one of those things. I get the same answers every time. Well, you need to see. It's never too late. You need to see a therapist.

Or they'll tell me one day God will find you. And I'm like, well, what if I told you one day you're going to realize that God is fake and this is all just a big ass lie? And I mean, I'm not attacking. I'm just saying, what if I told you that your therapist is actually been drugging you this whole time and they're full of shit. Like, how would you feel? Right. You know? So, and it's, I'm not worried about me because I'm good. Like, I'm not, you ain't got worry about me. What I'm worried about is everybody else. Because if you're going to tell that to me,

you're telling it to everybody else too. That, oh, well, one day you'll find God and God will save you. And so you're putting this fucking pressure on somebody. It's, I mean, it's culty. I'm just, it is just culty sometimes. There are a lot of Christians that I've met who are not like that. I mean, one of my best friends is a Christian, very devout Christian. Well, I also just feel like there's a time and there's a place. There is. Like, I don't understand. Like, to me, if someone's telling me their story, that just wouldn't be where my mind goes.

But everybody's different, you know? But, like, I just, I don't. And I do think there's a lot of people that are doing it for the right reasons out of the kindness of their heart. Because that's all they believe and know. But, like you said it, it's like, it's like, it's. It is a form of pressure. And I don't think people realize that, which also, that is a good statement to say and for people to know because people might not realize that, you know, just because it's something you believe in doesn't mean that somebody else has to or should. Yeah.

Yeah, it's weird. It's, I don't know, like, my brain doesn't go there either. Yeah. You know, and I think the reason, so, you know, I don't know, truthfully, I think that their minds go there for a couple reasons. I think that most of the time you hear these kind of stories. And so I actually got canceled for not being a Christian. Really? Yeah, I got, I got, I had a, I had a speech.

I was called by a pastor in my hometown. I'm not, I'm not mad at this guy. I, I can understand, I understand what happened. I mean, I'll probably kind of get to it. I spoke in my hometown at a conference. Speaking of which, little heartbreaker story, the first conference I went back to in Lima, Ohio, it's the first conference I've ever spoken.

at was back in November and in Lima, how my hometown. I spoke at that conference under one condition and that was to present Chad couples an award. So it's very cool to go back 15 years after the fact and give this police officer this award. So I'll show you that video. It's on my YouTube channel too, but I'll show it too. It's really cool. Very emotional moment. Chad is an incredible guy. So we've since reconnected. He's in the book. Anyways, when I spoke at that conference, so many people from that conference wanted me to come back to Ohio and speak. And so they went to a church, a local church. The pastor there, I grew up with his kids, or at least I went to high school with his kids. So he called me and he's like, hey, Seth, you know, it's like three or four people

came up to me and said that we got to get you to come up here and speak. So I want you to come back to Ohio. So I said, okay, well, what do you, you know, how do you want to do it? He's like, well, I'll pay for your travel. You come up here and, and, and we also agreed on ordering some books for everybody in the crowd. So I next day I text him on the initial phone call he asked me what's your relationship like with Christ and when did you find Christ? And I said and he was a pastor so I was expecting this. I said well you know I'm not a Christian and but I can you know I can talk to a church it's not a big deal like I don't mind talking to Christians and so he says okay he's like well I thought you were a Christian now but but that's all right not a big deal and so

we're talking talking talking whatever we get off the phone I'm super excited we're both excited and because it's just another opportunity to speak in my hometown, which typically you would think I would draw a good crowd in my hometown. So we're both excited. Text them the next day. I said, hey, we want to ship the books. We're good to go. Yep, we're good to go.

So I pay to have all these books shipped to Ohio. Next day, text me and says, hey, we have to cancel you. So I get on the phone with him. And he says, yeah, after some like consideration and this and that, because you're not a Christian, you know, we just don't feel comfortable. having you speak. And so I said, I wouldn't even want to argue with him. I was like, all right, you know what? Whatever, we're good. And I said, okay. And he's like, I'm sorry. He's like, do you understand? I was like, yeah. I was like, I'm not surprised. You know, it's not the first time

I've been canceled for not being a Christian. I'm sure it won't be the last. And he's like, well, what do you mean? And I said, you know, I've had a lot of conversations with people about, hey, Seth, will you come and speak to this person? We come and speak to this place. Will you, will you come and, you know, do this event or whatever? Like a lot of small things. I'm like, yeah, sure. And then we get to having a conversation. And the last question most of the time is, are you, when did you find your relationship with Christ? And I say, well, I'm not a Christian. And then almost every time without fail, the conversation ends right there. Or the lead just dies out, which this happened to be, this was the first time that they had actually admitted that it was

because I wasn't a Christian, right? So it's just a testament to, uh, the situation of not being a Christian and where people get so blinded by, you know, and I told the guy on the phone, I said, how many people will be in that crowd? He said about 100 to 150. I said, so the fact that I'm not a Christian, in a crowd of 100 to 150 people, statistically speaking, about 20 to 30 of them are almost guaranteed to have gone through what I've gone through. And statistically speaking, none of them have reported because 1 in 10 report and the average

Asia reporting is 53 years old. So you have about 20 to 30 people who have never told anybody anything in their entire lives and they have the opportunity to listen to somebody speak. Right. And help them get through this, you know? And you guys want to stop it because I'm not a Christian, you know? So, yeah, it's crazy. And, you know, apparently there's some works that guy's working on something else up in

Ohio to potentially have me, I don't know, a rumor that I heard that he's going to have me somewhere else speak potentially. So we'll see what happens. And I'm not mad at the guy for it. I can imagine the reason why he canceled me was because he probably took it to their board. And then their board had one or two people that would be upset. Once again, and this is a common problem that you have in the world is that you have the one or two people that are pissed off about a topic.

And so they cancel it for everybody. Right. Right. You're pleasing one or two people for the majority, right, to receive benefit, right? Typical thing. And that goes across the board with a lot of different problems. And what I told that guy on the phone was, you know, I could be a sellout. I could go out there and say I'm a Christian and I could say I gave my life to God.

And it would be this beautiful story, you know, childhood abuse, sexual abuse, man, survivor, now turns to God. Like, that's something you see in a movie. It's very cliche or typical. Not that turning to God or like that is cliche in like a bad like way or whatever. I can understand why somebody would be religious or pray. I understand the power and the importance and that. But I could be, and I told him, I said, I could be a sellout and I could just say, I gave my life to God.

And my story would go more insane than what it already has on other platforms. Because it's just what people want to hear. So when you say the opposite of that, well, And even as I'm saying this now, there will likely be Christians who hear it and they'll just denounce it and say, oh, whatever, God, you know, whatever. They'll find you. Exactly. And which is fine. But that's my point.

And what's frustrating about that is there are so many people who have come out with these crazy stories that they've, and these things that they've been through. And then they become these deeply religious people. And there's a hands. handful of men, I'll say, that come to mind, that are online that do this. And they're exploiting, they're exploiting people. And I mean, truthfully, one of them almost got me. And what they are, are these, there are these jacked guys that are Navy SEALs and they're all tatted up. And they have these stories that truthfully are, not that they've been through anything, they've made a lot of dumb-ass mistakes.

And then they supposedly turn their lives to God. And that's, like, that's their whole platform. And truthfully, from the outside and end, it looks like they're milking the situation. It looks like they're exploiting. Like, it's because if they weren't a Christian, they would lose the Christian crowd, you know? And so part of me is like, that's what's so frustrating when I see somebody who has so much potential to help people and they're just milking a situation. and exploiting people because what they're doing is they're finding people like me who a year ago,

I was hurt and broken and needed help. And then they're charging these guys like $5,000 to be a part of their mastermind Zoom group to learn how to heal and all this other bullshit, right? And there's a word for it, I believe it's called a charlatan is what they call them. You know, they're just, they're crazy. And what they do is they parade people for like some sense of like, I don't know what it is. Like they'll, they're the kind of guys that get somebody in front of a crowd and say, if you don't have a six pack abs, you're not successful.

You know, it's like they're really dumb shit, you know. And so some people are, are their whole healing identity gets, gets captivated by these guys because they're very charismatic and they're attractive and they're these good-looking. guys and so, you know, there's something about them that is compelling, right? But it, but it, unfortunately, it's in a negative light. And people that are like me that are freaking jacked up, we tend to, um, we tend to look for that. We look at its community. It makes it feel like you're, you're finding a community in a way. Right. You know, and so it's just crazy. It's crazy what people do with it. It's, and, you know, they, to people, people asking,

after you open up and tell your whole story and like get so vulnerable and so raw and so real. And that, to me, like, asking about therapy or religion right after, like, that's not your point. You know, that's not why you came and told your story. It doesn't matter. To me, it's not so much of how you got to where you are now, but more so this is what I was kind of going to say. say, there's two things. One, not only does your story speak to people that have gone through similar things, but there's not many men that are comfortable enough to open up about something like this. And obviously, of course, like you said, just because you are public about your story,

it doesn't mean that everybody has to be that has gone through something similar. But I do think that it gives people a voice, even if they don't feel like they can use their own, by you having a voice and speaking up about what happened to you, I think it makes people feel more comfortable within their own skin and within their own traumas that they've gone through, which is very important because we live in a world where I feel like, like you said, men are viewed to be tough and they're supposed to be this way, and nothing bad can happen to men. And if it does, maybe they're gay. And it's all these different things that, and these stigmas, and people don't feel comfortable to be honest and be truthful about what's happened to them.

So I think that you provide that voice, you make people feel more comfortable, and whether that means it's just it's a comfort of them reaching out to you or even just a comfort when they're in their own home. You know, hearing your story and then feeling a little bit of a sense of relief within, that's huge. That's number one. And number two is the educational aspect because I think your story serves. that as well. Because even the situation with your grandparents,

you know, I think that your story serves a purpose of educating parents and can be grandparents, can be aunts and uncles, of maybe I should look more into somebody. Maybe I should question it a little more. Because, you know,

there are so many times that people probably think, oh, like, because this other family knows this adult, they're fine, they're trustworthy, nothing could happen. You know, that that's, I think we have this mindset of it'll never happen to us. It could never happen to my kid.

It could never happen to me. So I think that your story, it also serves as education because people might not always question it. But after hearing this, they might, it might be in the back of their mind. I heard a story. And I want to think a little more. And you could be saving multiple other children from having this happening to them. You know, so it's not even just people that have already gone through it. But you could be stopping it from happening to other kids and other people that might have not questioned it if they didn't hear your story.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, so to the educational part, I mean, that's exactly why, or that's a big piece of why I share too. And, you know, that's why I try to be so, like, real about it. Once again, I think people think that there's a lot of people that are, like, authentic online. I think the bigger the person gets, the less authenticity you get out of them. they're trying to protect a brand. I'll never be that person. I say that now and I hope that I hold that true in the future. But I will never be the person that's like protecting a brand or even if it's my own. Like I will be authentic. Like when I talk about having thoughts about taking my life or my child's life, that's why I say it.

Like I don't think anybody's, I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say that. And I don't say it to brag. I say it because it's true and I know other people feel it. Right. And even when I talk about like, there's so much shame in the world. Like people are so quick. It's almost like they want to hear you say something bad so that they can feel better about themselves.

And that's what misery and insecurity and judgment does. But I 100% agree with you. Like there is such a level of importance and truth and rawness. And you should never stop. Yeah. You know, I 100% agree with that. And I would never, you know, that's why, I mean, that's part of the reason why I do this.

It's like I have so many different types of people on and different beliefs, different backgrounds. And it's like, people will ask me sometimes, like, or afterwards, if they watch an episode, they're like, wasn't that crazy or they'll try to, like, almost gossip about it. And I'm like, who the hell am I to judge? Like, maybe I don't agree with it. I don't even think about it in that moment because I'm just here to host this platform where people can be honest and open because there are so many people that are just dying to hear someone else say exactly what they're thinking but are too afraid to say. Yeah, well, that's,

that's the social, that's the internet, right? That's the internet. And, and that's why I say, like, I don't care what anybody says. The comments don't bother me at all. And they shouldn't. And right. And so that's, that's when I say, like, your words matter. And so there's, so this book, it's called the four agreements. And the, the four agreements are, um, be impeccable with your words. Don't take anything personal. So you're, you, I can call you whatever I want right now. If you take it personal, that is, that is something that you have to deal with inside yourself. That is an agreement that you are making with yourself, that I am offended with what this person has said about me. Even though this person doesn't know what the fuck I am, they don't matter to me, he's going to be gone in five minutes.

Like, you to take anything personal from anybody, you have to agree to that. Like, you are agreeing with what they said to you at some level or, you know, whatever, right? So, that's like two of the agreements. One of them is do your best, always do your best. And then I can't remember the third one. Anyways. But yeah, to your point of like, there are people, the very things that you're scared to say are likely the words

that somebody needs to hear to heal. There's somebody out there that needs to hear this shit to be like, holy shit, I'm not alone. And when I tell my story, people will tell me now, like Seth, you have no idea what you've done for me. and I do know. I do know because I was in those shoes.

I was the other person behind the screen a year ago. I've only been talking about my story for a year. And I've only been public about it for a year. But probably 15 months ago, I listened to another man tell his story. His name's Clark Fredericks. He was raped as a young man by a Boy Scout leader. He was a police chief, freaking member of the church. And he had done in this, this man that did.

it to him. He did it to boys for the next 30 years. And then Clark went back and murdered the man 30 years later. Clark Fredericks. He's from Stillwater, New Jersey. And he's one of my freaking heroes today. He's the reason, I came across his video on Softwit Underbelly. He was the first man that I'd ever seen talk about it, but didn't look like broken or destroyed, you know, which was what, that's what I try to be. When I talk about my story, I'm not an addict. I'm not like destroyed. I'm functioning. I'm human. I'm living a beautiful life. That's part of the reason why I share it too is because I want people to know that like you can get through this shit and live this life and be the strong person. You don't have to be the shell of a person.

So when I saw Clark tell his story, I was like, holy shit. Like he's the only man that I know who gets it. And so if I felt that empowered by him, I decided to start telling my story. So because I saw Clark, right? And then I've gone back actually met Clark earlier last year. And to go and like get to meet him, I was like, dude, like you have no idea. what you've done for me. Like, you know, and so Clark shared his story.

I have shared mine because of Clark. And now other people have reached out to me and been like, hey, you know, thank you so much. And eventually somebody's going to share their story and come back to me and be like, Seth, like, you saved my life, you know. And so there's this, there's so much. It's a full circle. It is.

It's beautiful. It truly is beautiful. And like, that's where that is real and authentic, okay? Like, the people that are like getting up and. saying the things that sound good and that you want to hear. Like, everything that I talk about, I didn't get from like a fucking book. I didn't get from like some crazy mastermind Zoom group that I was a part of for 12 weeks. Like this shit that I talk about all came from my life.

This is all life experience, you know? Like there's a lot of things that I've learned from different things. But this is all like real Seth talking. When I get up on a stage and talk, I'm not like suit and tie, like trying to be somebody that I'm not. I get up in there with jeans, boots and a backwards hat. And I tell you, I tell you how it is. Because there's somebody in that freaking crowd, even when I spoke in Baltimore and all those

freaking therapists were hating on me, there was two men in the crowd. One of them was dead center in the room. And I wish I would have gone down there giving the guy a freaking hug because he was crying. He was crying the whole time. And I know he was going through it. But I have been in that, I have been in that guy's shoes sitting in a room broken down crying while somebody else is speaking. And they weren't even like that relatable to me.

But the way they spoke about their pain, it just was. hitting me and I was healing through it. And I, you know, I think it's interesting. You talk about being triggered. So many people will like, they want to get away from being triggered. They don't want to be hurt, right? They don't want their feelings to be hurt. And I think there's a lot of power in that. I think that when I tell you my story, what I'm doing is I'm inviting you into my house. I'm picking up the couch. I'm letting you see underneath the couch. I'm pulling the kitchen, I'm pulling the dishes out of the cabinets. I'm letting you see inside the cabinets. I'm freaking, I'm moving the refrigerator out of the way.

Like all those places that you don't want people to see, I'm letting everybody see those parts of my mind because what happens when you do that, somebody else is going to be triggered, right? It's going to hurt. They're going to remember things that they forgot about, right? And in my opinion, it is going to help them get through it. Like these things that we are so scared to address

or talk about or feel, like those are the very things that we need to like advance our lives, okay? and it's like spring cleaning of the mind is what it is. You've got to get in there and get the cobwebs out of there. And when you like get deep down in there, you go up in the attic and like there's that box that's in the back. It's been back there for like six years and you've not opened it up. And then you go back there and you open it up and you find something in there and you're like,

holy shit. Like I forgot all about this. Like this explains a lot or it's a good thing. Maybe it was a good thing. Maybe it's a good memory that you forgot. about, right? Or maybe it's something bad, but it explains some things, you know? Like I had forgotten, I don't even know, I don't think I said it earlier. When I was 10 years old, this is something I forgot about until I wrote my book. When I was 10 years old, my mom, she gave me my own porn. She just gave

me DVDs to look at and to watch. And her justification was that I was going to watch it anyway. So I might as well just give it to him so you can watch it whenever he wants. So, but that was something that I have forgotten about until I wrote my book. You know, know, and that's part of like not being afraid to go into that dark water, you know. So that's why I tell my story the way I do. I know it's not for everybody. I know that some people like, they look at it like, oh, it's a trauma dump or it's just shock therapy or whatever the hell you want to call it. But the day that people stop messaging me and telling me like, Seth, you've saved my life. Seth, you've changed this. Seth, you've helped me. Your story's

this and powerful. When like when I received the last message of that, I'll stop talking about it. But until then, I know that there are kids out there every single day that are fighting for their freaking lives, you know, and there are adults out there that are fighting for their lives because of what happened to them as a child. The effects of childhood trauma, neglect, and abuse are, it's the leading public health costs in America. We spend over $14 trillion a year treating the effects of trauma. So that whether it's through mental health diagnosis and medication, whether it's through drugs, domestic violence, you know, abuse, like all of those things come from your, most of it comes from your childhood. And we spend about $14 trillion a year.

That's more than heart disease and cancer. So, you know, the root cause of all of this is your childhood. Like the root cause of a lot of the pain and a lot of the issues in America, it's a traumatized, neglected childhood. If we fix those things, we can fix a lot of America's problems, you know. And I just, you know, I just, I just wish that, I wish people cared more. I wish there's so many other problems. There's so many big problems in the world. It's, and we're focused on like, just freaking bullshit, you know, and anytime anybody gets up and shares their story, like, it may not be for you, but it was for somebody. And that's something I had to realize recently, too, is like, when I spoke at that,

conference in Baltimore. Like there was two guys in that room that I was talking to. I don't know. It may have been more, but there was two for sure. You know, I don't know what impact I had on them, but I know it was big enough to for them to cry and for them to approach me, right? And for anybody to approach me after a speech, especially emotionally, it takes a lot of courage, right? Because when you're crying in the room, when somebody's talking about the life that I've

had, you can assume that that person has, is relatable in some form or, for extent, right? And so now you're looking at this person like, oh shit, like that person's been abused or whatever, right? When you, one of my mentors, his name's Nick Lavery. He's a green beret. He got his leg shot off in combat. He's the first above the knee amputee to go back to combat. He's the one who kind of helped me out in my book and speaking and everything. Incredible guy. Fucking insane. Love him. An absolute hero of mine. When he tells his story, he gets emotional responses to, being that he's an amputee and all these other things, combat veteran and special forces, he gets a very emotional response from some people. But when you approach him and you're

crying, what would be like your interpretation? Like, oh, this person must have lost somebody in combat or they must have been injured themselves. There's something honorable about that, right? There's something honorable about like that police officer or that service member who's emotional because another service member is telling their story. So there's something honorable about that for you to approach that person. For me, like for me to get any response from anybody in the crowd, that person's going to be feeling likely embarrassed or ashamed because they fit into the box that I fit in, right? So there's something to be said about that, like I said earlier, where like there's no like

rewards for what I've been through, right? There's, you know, I looked at these guys that were special operators. My entire life, like they were so special because they, they went through all these selection processes and all this like rigorous training, right? And one of my buddies and having the conversation with him, he's like, you know, Seth, somebody told him that, because he had a bad childhood too, that as children, we did not have a bell to ring. We didn't have like a warm truck that was like 10 feet away where like if we wanted to quit, we could just quit.

Like, so that's one thing I want people to understand when you're a child. And all these other people are receiving this acknowledgement and all this freaking movie stars that were, that we're so proud of and all these music stars that we're so proud of and that are life changing and all this shit is like, as a child, there's no bell to ring. There's no quit. There's no option to get out, right?

We have to get through this shit. Okay. So, you know, that's the reason why I am who I am. And I don't ever plan on changing. If people don't like it, you know, then it's not for you. You know. And there are some stories out there that I hear from this point forward, like I'm trying to cancel this like negativity of perception.

But there are some things out there that I hear where I'm like, you know, in the past where I've been like us, whatever, the story's not for me. And I got to let that go. I can't be mad at this person. I got to let it. It's not for me. He's helping somebody or she's helping somebody. just not for me.

So when I tell my story or anybody tells her story, if you don't like it, it's not for you. Don't listen. Yeah, don't listen. It's not for you, right? But don't carry this hate for the person. It's just not for you. So, yeah.

I agree. Well, you're amazing. You really are. And like I said, you sharing your story does so much and obviously saying that, I feel like is, it does,

I feel like it, you know, based on what you said, I don't think it holds a lot of weight for me to say it, just because it's like, you know, I think it's, like, anybody can say that to somebody. Like, what you're doing is amazing, you're amazing, you know, and you truly are, so you should know that and you should believe it. And like I said, it's not only reaching so many people that have been through it, but it's educational and it's inspiring that you are this hard, grown man that's able to sit here

and talk about the most vulnerable and raw and dramatic experiences that you've had in life. you know, it's not easy. And telling it over and over again, I think that there can be a form of healing in that. But there's also pain, you know, and that's normal too. And I tell people all the time on the show that even if you're in a place that you're really proud of of, you know, your healing journey and you've come a long way and you're able to tell your story without getting emotional, it's normal still to have moments or days or times where you do feel sad and you look back and you're like, damn, like, that did suck or you have these moments where you feel low or depressed. Like, just because you might be, you know, the best version of yourself today or this week, it doesn't

mean that next week you can't be depressed or you can't feel like shit or feel like the world's crashing down around you. And I think that that's a really important thing to remember. Like, no one's perfect. And, you know, we, the only thing we can do is keep moving forward and to continue to try to be the best versions of ourselves. We can't harp on the past. We can't try to change things that we've done or actions we've made that we might be, you know, pissed off at ourselves about. But I think that you, your story really shows all of those things. And it really is beautiful and amazing. And there are so many moments that I feel like you've even seen now that have come full circle, which is really important. And I feel like it just kind of, it shows you not

like I said, having this happen to anybody, it's never acceptable, it's never okay. But it is in what you kind of make out of it afterwards. And it's crazy because some people can take a path that's so different. You know, they could be led into addiction or death or anything else. You know, there's plenty of times you could have taken your own life because shit was hard and bad and negative and terrible. You know, and I'm sure there was plenty of times you felt like it just, not worth it. But to be sitting here now and to be able to share your story and reach millions of people is something that is so incredible and it shouldn't be taken lightly. And you really,

you genuinely should be so proud of yourself for having the courage to stand up and tell your story. Because that does take a lot. You know, and even if it's something that you can some days have that imposter syndrome, you know, it's something to be so proud of and to just some days give yourself a little pat on the back of like yeah like I went through that but look where I am now like I did the damn thing like writing a book that's no small thing that's incredible um and obviously please send me the link to it and anything else that you want to link you know all your personal stuff so I can put it down below for everybody um so that people can contact you and kind of follow along um and yeah it's it's incredible so I'm so grateful that you wanted to come on really I appreciate it a lot

so thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Of course. Yeah, I'll send you the links to it. It's just on for anybody who's listening. It's on Amazon. I do have signed copies through my website. So if you want to sign copy, I can do those through my website.

It's just Sethgale.com. And then it's on Amazon, strength beyond the shadows. And then if anyone wants to reach out, they can reach out through my website or Instagram is really the easiest way. just follow me and send me a message. But if you look me up among all the social medias, you can, it's 20, what is it, 2025 now? Yeah. Yeah, if you can't find me, then you're not looking hard enough.

Right. Exactly. Yeah, thank you so much. And this is always, it's always an honor. And it's always just so special to be able to help people. So thank you. Thank you.