We're All Insane - I Was Adopted 21 Times

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

#podcast #adoption #family #trauma #healing In this episode of We’re All Insane, we sit down with Jessica who was adopted 21 different times. She opens up about her journey through each home, what it was like adjusting to new families over and over again, and the deep emotional toll of being repeatedly given up. This raw and powerful conversation dives into the pain, resilience, and strength behind her story. Jessica's Links:https://www.instagram.com/birchiesplace?igsh=dWNubnp0NXg4eDJ3&utm_source=qr 00;05;50;01 What Does It Feel Like To Be Unwanted By Parents?00;10;00;00 What's It Like Having An Adopted Parent Abuse You? C 00;18;34;02 What Is A Group Home For Kids Like? 00;23;07;01 What Is A Relief House Parent Like? 00;33;02;20 Why Do Some Adopted Kids Get Sent Back To Children's Homes 00;39;05;27 What's It Like Not Knowing How To Read Or Write As A Child?00;47;57;05 What's It Like Feeling Like Your Parents Aren't In Your Life?00;51;52;28 What's It Like Being Rejected By Your Adopted Parents?01;16;04;23 What's It Lik Ebeing Adopted Multiple Times? 01;18;20;16 How Does Signing Over Guardianship Of A Child Work? 01;43;30;11 What's It Like Being Locked Away In A Children's Home?01;47;32;08 What's It Like Running Away From A Children's Home?02;01;54;19 What's It Like Having A Parent Think You're A Burden?02;10;39;17 What's It Like When A Foster Parents Starts Abusing You?02;32;04;15 What's It Like Getting Adopted At 18? 02;43;41;07 What's It Like Being Disowned By Your Adopted Family 02;50;46;18 What's It Like Being In A Marriage Where You Don't Love Each Other? 02;51;59;12 What's It Like Having Your Spouse Cheat On You? Topics: Adoption, Identity, Trauma, Childhood, Abandonment If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. I am Jessica. I live in Upper Wisconsin, Upper Michigan area. And, I have had 17 different parents. And it's a really long journey. So my biological mom, I know her name. Her name is Julia Damiano.

She gave me up for adoption at birth. Growing up, I had no idea why or who she was. Really didn't want to know who she was. Just that's what happened. I was adopted by a family in Texas. Their names were Colette and Mitch. I want to say Mitch. And I think I live with them until I was like three or four.

They adopted me right at birth. They adopted me because they had, they couldn't get pregnant. They had an older son, Jason, and he was much older. I think he was like in his teens. And they had tried for several years to get pregnant. And they adopted me. And literally, while they were finalizing the adoption, they got pregnant. So I had a sister, Nicole.

And she was, I want to say only a couple months younger than me. We were very close in age. So quick question. Sure. Your biological mom, did she know this family or like how did she find them? I don't really know. I was told she knew them that she was friends with them, but honestly I'm not sure. Okay, but it wasn't like through some sort of.

I don't know if it was through an agency or what. I was never told really anything about her. But like I said, I never really searched. So I have no idea. But so yeah, I lived with Colette and Mitchell Tau was three. I don't really, honestly, I don't remember anything about living with them. I take it back. I remember going to Hawaii.

I think the grandma lived in Hawaii. And I say remember, but I'm wondering if it's because I looked at old pictures. You know how sometimes pictures can be like they invoke like, oh yeah, I was here or I did that. And it may trigger like some sort of like faint memory of it too. Yes. Yes. because I remember like a closet door, like something really small and like something weird. But other than that, I, during the time that I lived with them, I had broken my collarbone.

I fell out of my crib. I was very accident prone, always hurting myself. And I think he was a truck driver from pictures. I think he was a semi-truck driver. But I just, what I do remember is, I remember, I remember. I felt safe around the dad and comfortable, just relaxed. And then I don't really remember too much about Collette. But when I was 3 or 4, they decided that they didn't want me anymore.

I have no idea why. Could you imagine, like having a baby and then being like, yeah, you know, it's not working for me. Yeah. That's crazy. It does make you wonder, too, like if they. didn't happen to get pregnant if they could have kept to. They got a bonus. They got two.

Right. Yeah. And two girls at the same time. And we looked. I mean, you wouldn't have known that I wasn't like already part of the family. Like. Yeah.

So I have no idea. To this day, I've never been given an answer. I have reached out. I think I reached out about 10 years ago. And I asked Colette and like, hey, you know,

can you explain like what happened? Like, who knows? Never found out. Did she answer at all? No, no. I even called one time because I, when Facebook become a thing, I had reached out. Nicole and I were talking just briefly. She was in college and we were just kind of catching up.

But never found out from anybody how that happened. But I was adopted then by her sister, Lydia. So Colette's sister, Lydia. and her husband Bill adopted me when I was three or four. And I lived with them until I was eight. It was good. They had two boys that lived in the house at the time. I think she had a child from another marriage and he might have had a child from another marriage.

But anyways, I grew up with Nick and Jonathan. And they were only like one and two years older than me. We were all really close in age. Now, since that was her sister, Colette's sister, would you ever see them? No, never saw them again because Lydia lived in Arizona and Colette lived in Texas. And I don't want to say that I don't think they had like a bad relationship, but I think it was just, you know, they had that type of relationship. When you see each other, it's awesome and you get along great, but you other than that, you live just totally separate lives. Yeah.

And that's just my presumption. from what I've seen. I don't know if that's the case. They could talk all the time. I would have no idea. But so, yeah, they had two boys, Nick and John. And I do have more memories from that. I remember moving into a house in Arizona, and it had horses.

I love that. And, like, I think we rent. We must have rented the house because the horses weren't ours. But I loved that. But I realized pretty quickly the feeling of being unwanted. I don't remember the memory of like Colette giving me to Lydia. I was way too young for that. But I'm sure it was traumatic.

I'm sure it was horrible. But I do remember like getting to the point because a lot of times living with Bill and Lillie. Lydia, they, you knew that Nick and John were their kids and I was the extra. Not that I was inconvenient, I wouldn't say. It was just little things. Like, I think like the worst thing I remember is just being locked in my room a lot. They put locks on my door and just being in there all day, all the time, like to the point where I would count the tile.

on the floor and I'd go back and forth and then I would look out the window and I counted all the red cars to a thousand and then I would count all the white cars to a thousand and the blue cars that would go by because we were on a pretty busy intersection just the past the time doing cartwheels in my room like whatever and it was pretty empty I don't remember having like a ton of toys to play with and your brothers were not being locked in their room no no they had like I remember they had like the old Nintendo and like they were always out with their friends, especially Jonathan. He really liked riding bikes.

But it's weird because I remember really bad moments, but I remember like also having fun. Like I remember like one Christmas, Lydia went all out and shoot. I got Little Mermaid everything. I got a little mermaid sleeping bag and, you know, I got the beauty and the beast mirror. And like so it's weird. It's confusing because. on one part, like, I didn't feel wanted, but on the other, it's like, well, they must have wanted me. Because I remember even one time I came home from school and there was this really cool

windbreaker on my bed, like, you know, the old school ugly colors, you know. And I was just like, this is awesome. And they tried to convince me that somebody else had dropped it off and they didn't know where it came from. Oh, and there was a bike. So it's like there was stuff like that. but then I remember the first time Bill abused me and I did not know what it was. I didn't know what was happening. And so like it's so interesting like looking back on it as an adult and then realizing, oh, maybe some of those good memories were to pay off the bad memories. And that's just me, again, assuming.

But it was just interesting. Like, it was a weird dynamic. Everything was put in votes, meaning, like, I remember it being Halloween. I think I could have only been, like, five or six. And something happened. Somebody had done something, and they put us all on a couch. They put us all in a row. And they would always do this.

And they'd be like, okay, who did it? I literally would always be like, I did it because I already knew. Like, they're going to blame me. They're going to take a vote. They're both going to say that I did it, even whether I did it, whatever they're accusing me of or not. So I'm just going to take it. But they put a vote for Halloween and all the boys, Bill and the two boys, they were like,

no, she shouldn't go trick-or-treating this year. We don't think that's a good idea. And then, like I was done. I didn't get to go trick or treating. And Lydia, like, came to me later and she was like, I was going to vote yes. But, like, it was pointless because it was, I'm like, thinking back, I was six. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that's so messed up.

And how long were you living with them before the abuse started with Bill? No, I don't remember. I want to say it was probably a little bit into it, like a year, maybe two years. I think it only happened two times. He brought me into his room and Lydia, she was a nurse. She worked nights a lot. I remember her not being around super often. She worked a lot of extra shifts because I think Bill had some like medical issues.

And he was home a lot. But I remember him molesting me and I remember it hurting and being confused about the situation, what was going on. and he had put money in my jewelry box for me. And it was only like three bucks or something, but I remember being like, sweet. Like, this is cool. But I only remember a couple of things, whether it happened more and I blocked it out or you never. I just, I don't know.

It's something I really didn't think about or even really remember until it was a little bit older in my teenage years. And I was like, wait a minute. Now that I'm kind of understanding some sex education and stuff like that, I know that that was inappropriate and that shouldn't have happened. But I do remember telling Lydia like, hey, I'm bleeding a little bit. Like it hurts down there. And I remember her being like, what? And her looking.

I remember the shock when she was like, what do you mean you're bleeding? And who knows? It could have been like she thought I was starting. Biberian really early. Who knows? But I just remember the shock on her like immediately. like, let's go look. Let's check. Let's find out what's going on. And that could have been the nurse in her. Um, but yeah. Um, so with Nick and the boy, Nick and John, like, I got along with them

enough to get by, but like there was no like closeness there. Um, around my eighth birthday, I think I had just celebrated my eighth birthday. I don't know if they had told me before or after that they were going to be sending me to a children's home. And I had never heard of that. It was basically, I mean, it was just that. It was a group home for kids. It's called Sunshine Acres Children's Home in Mesa, Arizona. And to this day, they're still open.

And they have like, each house has, at least when I lived there, there's a bunch of different houses in each house has 10 kids in it. So anyways, Bill and Lydia said, hey, we, we, we, We've got some things changing in our lives and, you know, we need to send you away. I don't remember exactly what they told me at that age. I don't have any remembrance of that. So I went there when I, right after I turned eight. By eight, I was just like, that was my normal, you know, I just.

Like on to the next. Another big chance. Yeah, it didn't feel crazy. So one thing that happened when I was living with Bill and Lydia was I went with a family friend on a camping trip and I got bit by a German Shepherd. So that's why I have this scar on my face. And that was like my first, like scary, scary thing. I mean, you would think the sexual abuse was, but it was.

It wasn't because I didn't know any different. But the dog, that thing, that was really scary because I love animals. And I just remember. And it was totally my fault. The parents probably should have said, hey, don't pet the dog while he's eating. I should have known, but I didn't. And I went up to be like, you're something good boy. And then I thought he jumped up and licked me.

And I went and wiped my face away. My hand was just covered in blood. My whole side of my face was ripped off. I had lost a tooth that bit through my lip. and it was messy and we were in the middle of nowhere. We were in like an RV and it was in the middle of the desert and they had a helicopter that came and got me and then I had to be life lighted out and I just remember being in the hospital and like the stitches.

I got so many stitches and then how ugly I felt after. I don't know if I always had an ugly haircut. I'm pretty sure I did. It was back when bold cuts were like a thing for girls. Who does that wrong? That should, like, that's right. You know, it should be illegal. Anyway, so I had an ugly bold cut.

And then like my whole face, my scar used to be much bigger. I've had a couple of plastic surgery. So to fix the facial reconstruction. But it used to be really bad. And going back to school, everybody called me Scarface. And it was very hard to make friends. And I was the ugly duckling and also didn't know. That was the other thing with Bill and Lydia.

I often came back from school very behind, like, educationally. I remember getting notes from the teacher and having to have Lydia signed stuff for me to be able to return just so that the teacher knew that I had told my parents like, hey. but I was illiterate and I didn't know at the time like how impactful that would be so I struggled a lot with that so I just feel like when I lived there I didn't get anything out of it just felt very isolated alone and gamed up on all the time because if it wasn't at home it was at school I had no friends at school I was bullied a lot I was definitely the ugly duckling But my scar healed up and it was a little better after that. I remember I made a friend because we had matching light up shoes and that was awesome.

And she also had very ugly hair. So we were good. But okay, so eight, I moved to the children's home, Sunshine Acres. And my first day there, I think as an adult looking back, I think it's crazy. Like, I just was there. Like, okay, whatever. I'm here now.

I'm like, this is my life. You know, that's the other thing I've been struggling with too is when as I'm telling this, like I literally feel like I'm telling you a story of somebody else. That person is not me. This little girl, I feel really horrible for her. I mean, but it's not me. It's, I feel so out of. person when I talk about that girl because it's so foreign to me.

But anyways, I remember my first day. They took me to a room. I remember sitting on the bed. And I remember the house parent. I don't remember her name. I want to say it's Mary, but it could be wrong. I remember her sitting me down and being like, she was so sweet. She was older.

I would say she was probably in her 50s. She was so sweet. She was like, is there anything I can do for you? You know, anything at all. And she was like, how are you feeling? Do you want me to read you a bedtime story? Like, she was willing to do anything. And I was like, I'm fine.

Why are you even asking me? Like, why would I, why would anything be wrong with me? And now looking back at her reaction, her, like, shock. Like, I get it now because, like, that's very, I should have been like, well, here we go again, you know. But honestly, that children's home was one of the best things. best memories of my childhood. I lived with 10 girls, a lot of girls my age, and it was really fun. I had friends for the first time in my life.

And I had girls my age. And it was a compound type style. So you could just, they had a playground you could go to. You had a cafeteria that you went to. We had our own chapel. And it was the first time I heard about Christ. And it was just really cool. really fun experience. The house parents were all really nice. That's really good. Yeah. And the

relief house parents, all the different families that came through that took care of us. Everybody just really loved us. At least that was my experience. Yeah. I, it was a little different for me because I believe that the house, even to this day, like the home is more for maybe troubled kids that need a place to go. Um, But when I lived there, we had a lot of kids come in where it was just the families. Instead of kids going to foster care, they would put them in this home as a temporary thing. So, yeah, I mean, there was a lot of girls that came in with pretty crazy stories. Like I remember, like there was a girl there for literally only a week.

Her parents had killed each other at a McDonald's parking lot. And she saw the whole thing. And she was my age. And I just remember that's one thing that I'm like, whoa, like, there's your life. You've got it going on. I'm fine. Like, I have friends now, so I'm good. So a lot of the girls, like I said, yeah, a lot of the girls were there just because of family issues or like maybe divorce. Who knows? Some girls were there because they made some poor choices in life. But for the most part, the kids, the girls were good. I was also really young. I was eight. So I didn't know what the teenagers, the 14, 15, 16 year olds, why they had come. I, um, We were each paired with one older kid in our room. So you don't think of like a big dorm room. It wasn't like that.

We each had our own room with one older partner. And it was fun. I came at summertime and we just played. We even had our own pool. So that was really fun. It was literally the best thing ever. And yeah, I loved it there. I loved it.

Yeah, it sounds like it was like a really good. sense of community. Yes. Yeah. And then there was other houses. So we were the only girls' house, but I think there was like three or four other houses, but they were boys. Okay. And it was super cool because when we would get together for like chapel, we would sing songs and play games.

It was like a big youth group almost because you had so many kids. And there was just different activities. There was a big gym and they would have like carnival nights and just fun stuff. Like it was basically camp year round. Yeah. So it was really fun. So that's Mary. Mary and I can't remember.

But I do remember the husband. I don't remember his name. But I remember just to cheer me up. It was in that first week. I must have been kind of down. But he had pulled me aside. He's like, I got a big secret for you. And I'm like, oh boy, what is it?

You know? And he pulled out a whatchaima call it candy bar. And I just thought that was the coolest thing. He's like, don't tell anybody. And he gave it to me. And it's just so silly how like little things like that, like totally changed my perspective. Like, I'm going to be fine. This place is great.

I'm going to make it, you know. Now, when you were there, were they, was there any type of like open communication of like next steps or like how long you would be there? Not to me. Okay. So I believe when I was, when I was taken there, Bill and Lydia told me that they were coming back to get me. I guess I'm glad that you mentioned that because I totally forgot about that. They did tell me that they would come back and get me.

So I think I still had that in the back of my head. Like this is just temporary, but I also didn't want to leave at that point. Like, I loved where I was at. It was a better experience. Yes. It was so much healthier for me. And like I, the other thing, they homeschooled. So that was a little bit better.

I was able to work on my spelling and stuff. stuff. I remember like, I think they had given me a test or they had put me through a public school exam just to see where I was at. And I remember one of the first spelling words was C. Like, I can see you outside. And I literally wrote down the letter C because I had no clue. I'm like, I have no idea. And so it was nice that they were able to recognize that. I remember learning my vowels at eight, like just the basic AEI-O-U and the different sounds they make. So it was crazy to think now as a mom, because I also homeschool, and I'm like, oh, shoot, my kid was like five and he was already reading, like, full books.

So it's just, it's sad because, you know, nobody cared enough. Like, I just somehow got swept. I got passed by just enough that I was able to get by. but like literally no nothing. So anyways, at almost nine, we got our relief house parents. So a relief house parent is somebody that comes in like maybe once a month from the weekend or for a few days to give the official house parents relief.

And they get to go and like take care of whatever they want or go on vacation or just get a break. Because this is their full-time job. These house parents, when they move in, they had, that place. They had their own apartment, which was connected to the house. It was basically their own room, but they had like a little kitchenette living room. If they wanted, they could also close it off during the time that they had their time off. So my relief house parents were Kent and Emily, and they were very young when they ended up working at the children's home. I want to say they were like 23, 24, like young because they hadn't had kids yet. I don't think she had been out of

college super long. I could be wrong, but I want to say early 20s, Kent and Emily. And oh my gosh, I immediately loved them. They were so fun. When I think of Emily, she was the one that like, the crafter of all crafters. She could turn. turn anything into something miraculous. Like she made Christmas cookies and she like would cut them out like individual colors like checkerboard, gingham, whatever. Yeah. Like how?

I don't know. But she would do it with 10 girls. She got us all on a schedule. Like I remember waking up and then she'd have cute little chore lists and like everything was so organized and neat and unchaotic. That was really the first time. my life where I felt like a kid. You know, she was so fun, she would play with us, which the other house parents, I don't really remember. I might have just been too young. But Emily was the best.

Like, she would do gymnastics with us and she teaches all sorts of things. And then coloring, even just she would make coloring fun. And she would be like, well, you know what you could do to make it even better. You could add this texture to it. And like, yeah. She was just so creative. Yeah. And she was the best. She was so awesome. And Kent was amazing.

I don't really have too many memories as a child about Kent, but I liked him. He was just a good dad, you know, just fun to be around. He would get involved, but he let Emily take the reins with us girls because some of us were wild. But Kent was the one. He was the music guy. Like, I just remember, we drove this big 15. passenger van everywhere. And they were the first house parents that like, they took us out of the compound to like,

we went, I think we went to California. But I don't remember, oh, we went to Disneyland. We went to Disneyland. And I thought that was really cool. That was my first time. I don't have too many memories. I remember the haunted house. But I just remember, like, how organized it was for the trip.

And Kent, it was the first time he had introduced. me or like all the girls to like music up until that point i don't really remember anybody but michael jackson and um he introduced me to dc talk and the newsboys which are both christian um rock bands i guess oh even to this day like i can get down to that yeah so it just it was just really fun memories of both of them they were really they really invested time you can could tell they really genuinely cared about us. And I know there were some issues that they had with some of the older girls being inappropriate.

We also had horses. I forgot about that. We had a barn in horses. But some of the other girls sneaking out to see the other boys because there were, you know, I didn't experience that because I hadn't gone through puberty. And I couldn't care less about boys at that time. But I know they struggled with that. But I think, yeah, they were just.

I just really love. them. But then right before I turned nine, the children's home came to me, Gary, Gary Engel, I think. He ran it and Chuck. Chuck and his grandma, his grandma had founded the children's home. And they came to me and they sat me down and they were like, hey, we have a family that's interested in adopting you. And they told me about them. And then it's pretty much the same process that you do in adoptions today. I would go on little home visits with them. And I remember they came and spent like a lunch with me.

And then like they took me to the mall one time. And did they have any other kids? Yes. So their names were Bob and Janet Reed. And they are from Scottsdale, Arizona. I believe they're still there. They had a daughter, Kaylee. They had adopted her, I believe from China when she was a baby.

So they had her and she was the same age as me. they wanted a sibling for her. So they had her, but we did like the whole home visits and stuff. And I remember the time where it came like, okay, we got to move you out. I was devastated. I was like, I don't want, I don't want to. Like, I really love my house parents and I love all the girls. And the crazy thing is all those girls, there was five or six of us.

We were all the same age. So we were just best friends. And, but anyways, I remember thinking this is a very, rich family. They had a huge house and they had their own in ground pool. I didn't realize everybody in Arizona has an ingrown pool, but, you know, I thought, moving up, you know. So I moved in with them and I think what I'll share is more of a perspective of viewing it now than as a child just because I can look back and realize, oh, that's what that was. Yeah. So I moved in and they put me in school right away.

I remember riding the bus. They worked a lot. So I don't know if Bob, I don't know if they owned a small municipal airport or if they just ran it or managed it. I still can't remember. I want to say they owned it. But they worked a lot. So I would come home and then I'd crawl under the garage. They'd leave it open just to crack.

And she'd come home and like, I must have been going through growth products. I always wanted pork chops, and she would always make me a pork chop for a snack or dinner, whatever it was. And then I'd take a long bubble bath and listen to Wilson Phillips for hours. Like so much so, I remember she would boil water on the stove just because I had already used up all the hot water. So it was just so fun. Like, I remember just really independent. I don't really remember Kayla. I don't really remember too much.

She hung out with her friends a lot. but one thing that Bob and Janet did on the weekends, and I don't know if this is because they were working or what, but they would drop us off at the skate rink, at the roller rink. And it was like $5. They would give me $5 every weekend. And surprisingly, that lasted me a long time. And hours now that I think about it, I'm like, you what?

Like, that's crazy. And it wasn't like, it wasn't like a couple. It was like all afternoon. Yeah. But they were, they were, they were, fun. They were very, if I needed something, they would just do it or get it. They, they, they, they threw me a big ninth birthday party, um, at, um, a place called rawhide. It's like a cowboy themed. Have you ever heard of it? Oh, okay. It's like a cowboy themed like amusement park. Okay. And that's really

cool. And they invited all of the children's home girls and it was fun. I remember and Emily was there and that was awesome because I got to see her again. I loved her so much. So it was cool. But yeah, they were fun. They would let me have the girls over all the time in the summertime. I remember them from the children's home. They would be over and we would be swimming all the time.

But yeah, honestly, I don't remember anything about Bob. I did go to, I did the whole take your daughter to work day. And I do remember that because. he let somebody fly me in their little sessna or whatever it was. And he was like, you want to do a trick? And he did like a flip or something. And I was like, I just remember dying. I died.

It was horrible. It was very, like, scary. Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. But yeah, that's all I know of Bob. Like, I just don't remember him. He was funny. I did meet him and Janet again.

with my husband and son, I think about six years ago, six or seven years ago. We were in Mesa and I had texted Kayla or maybe I texted Janet. Somebody. I said, hey, I'm in town. I know this is kind of random, but it would just be fun to catch up. And they did. We met at a restaurant. And it was really fun to catch up with them.

I should go back, though, because by the time school started again, I think at the end of the summer, I was going back to the children's home. And why was that? Well, I am not 100% sure. I think it was, I guess I have a good idea. So I did constantly say, man, I sure wish I was back at the children's home. Like, I miss my friends. I want to go back.

I miss Kent and Emily. I know I said that quite often. In the end, they are still adults and they're the parents and they're the parents and They're the ones making the decision. I believe from my own experience, which I'll get into my own experience with taking in foster kids or orphan kids, I believe that they, it wasn't a good fit. Like I genuinely believe there was not necessarily anything wrong with me, but it just didn't feel right or it didn't fit with their lifestyle. Who knows? Like, I don't think there was anything wrong with me.

Looking at it now, I really don't think there was anything wrong with me. I don't think they thought there was anything wrong with me. I think it just didn't work out. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts.

Or to get early ad free access, subscribe. in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. I know I mention quite often that I miss Kent and Emily and that I miss the girls in general. Like, I missed having friends. Like, Sheila was great. But she really was, like, off with her friends a lot. Like, I really don't remember her being around.

Right. Just like Bob, I don't remember him being around. Janet even wasn't around a lot. I mean, we did do a family vacation to, like, a beach or something. Like I said, I genuinely believe there was nothing wrong. Right. It just wasn't, it didn't feel right to them or it didn't, it wasn't a good fit. And that's okay.

Yeah. I'm okay with that right now. At then, I was great with it because I was like, sweet. Going back with Kent and Emily and going back to my girls. Like, it literally, I could care less at the time. So, but they were, they were great. And it is like it is a weird thing to kind of look back on because like you said, it's it's one of those things where if a child keeps saying they want to go back somewhere, it's like you kind of think, well, maybe that would be better for them. Yes.

But then at the same time, it's like you don't really realize how important stability is or like would be to just keep someone in one place for like, you know. Yeah, just hold out a little bit longer and maybe it'll go away eventually. because you see both sides of it and it's like I've experienced both sides of it right so I'll eventually get into that but that if I hadn't experienced it myself and totally understood like even with you know going into what I'm going to tell you about Ken Emily like I get it right finally yeah so but no they were great we did meet up and they were really fun they would tell me they're like yeah Bob Bob was like yeah you you had this thing where everything everything was the opposite day. And when he told me, I was like, oh my gosh, I totally forgot that.

Like, I would always just try to be silly and be like, yeah, everything's opposite. I would wear my clothes backwards. I was just weird. I was a weird kid. But I do think I was just trying to get attention. Yeah. So, but no, they were great. I have nothing negative to say about them. They were. And that's good that you were able to like meet up with them after the fact. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think it's funny. Like when I met up with them, like it was brought up why I laughed. And I was so uncomfortable. I just went back to the whole, oh yeah, I didn't even want to be there. I know I told you a million times I wanted to go. And so you did. So thank you for sending me back. But in reality, like, especially going through it myself, it's like, no, you have the choice. And but it was, you know,

it's just one of those things. Like, I didn't want to make it awkward. Yeah. I'm not going to blame them. Right. Whatever. You know, and I'm glad they didn't keep me because one big life changing thing was when I started my relationship with Jesus. Like I would not have had that with them. I don't think they were church. No, we never went to church or anything like that. And just even, you know, something as simple as my husband, I would have never met him. Right.

And everything happens the way it's supposed to. Yeah, it does. So they were, what, number four, number five? Number five? I don't know. Okay. Anyways. So I went back.

Okay. And I got back to Kent and Emily. And just to kind of confirm. So Ken and Emily, they're like, you said they are considered house parents. Yes. So each group of those 10 girls was assigned a different house parent. Is that that work? So there was only one house of girls.

It was just my house. Okay. And then like the other homes were full of 10 boys. And each of those homes also had a set of house parents. Got it. Okay. And there was a couple sets of relief house parents that had their own house separate where they would come into the house to take care of us.

But for all the kids there, this was just like a temporary place. Like no one's stay there? Not all of them. I mean, yes, I get, yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was temporary. Okay. All of them had parents.

Okay. Yeah. So. But I should back up with Bill and Lydia. I do remember they did have to like cut all ties. They took me there one last time to their house, but they all came with me. Chuck came with me. The director of the children's home.

And I remember it was kind of like, okay, Jessica, this is, you're never going to see them again. Like, I didn't realize it was a big deal. Now I know it was them like signing their rights away and stuff like that. Okay. So that was so that the children's home could put me up for adoption because they knew, they knew that Bill and Lydia were never going to get me back. Yeah. And so they were like, well, if you don't want her, somebody else would love her. So that's that.

But, okay, so I get back to the children's home. I had just turned nine. And, yeah, life was great. Like, I started third grade. Well, I started third grade for my second time because I, like I said, they did homeschooling for that first year, that first year, third grade that I was in. But they held me back, obviously, because I was illiterate. I don't even think I could write. I definitely couldn't read.

They put me in a special reading program. I eventually did learn to read. But I think, yeah, I was nine by the time I learned that. Even to this day, I struggled really hard with spelling and stuff like that. It's funny because now that I homeschool, I'm like, the program that I used for my son, it's like, oh, my gosh, that makes so much sense. Like, I'm learning so much more as an adult than I ever did as a child with just basic, like, skills on this, this is the sound that you need to make this word. So you're in third grade? I'm in third grade, yep.

And I still have all my friends. The same girls are still there. We might have gotten one new girl and like one of the older girls might have left. I wasn't super close with the older girls. So I don't really remember their timeline when they were there or when they weren't. My roommate was different. Leslie was my roommate. And I think she ended up leaving.

I think she either left because she went back to her family or she grew out of the system. Remember she might have been the oldest person in the house. Yeah. it was just the same stuff. Like activities and, you know, everything was just fun with Kent and Emily. There was never really like bad moments, movie nights and just they were just great. I only had one bad experience. Like I must have done something bad because I remember Kent got so angry that he left me

outside the front door. And while it was like a compound, I was safe. You know, there was nothing. I was scared because there was rattlesnakes and scorpions and like, ooh. But I remember he got so mad. He ended up picking me up and like push me against the wall and like yelling. I still don't remember what it was. I probably did something stupid.

I probably like it's frowned upon to do that. But I probably deserved it. Like whatever it was. But that's the only like bad memory that I have of them. Like nothing else. Emily, no. She was perfect the whole time. She was amazing.

So right before I turned 10, Kent and Emily decided that they didn't want to be at the children's home anymore. I was devastated, obviously. Like, they were, they were the best. And I remember them coming to me after having let us all know. And they pulled me aside and they were like, hey, we want to take you with us. It was the best day of my life. Like, no, take your time. Okay. So they asked me to move with them. They were moving to Michigan. And I think it was because I remember even during at Sunshine Acres, Kent had been trying to like become a police officer, I believe. He was going, he was on the side. He was doing something else. He was, I think, but I believe it was he wanted to be a police officer. And so the. The, um, the,

other thing was Emily had gotten pregnant and they wanted to start their own family and they weren't sure like maybe this isn't the right environment, which, you know, looking back, I'm like, oh yeah, you're probably right. Like, I don't know if I could have done that. So, but they pulled me aside and they asked to adopt me. And I was shocked because it was everything I had ever dreamed of. And I didn't even care about leaving my friends. Like, that's how much I wanted it. Like, doesn't matter, I'll go to the ends of the earth for you. No problem. I'm there. I'm And it was great. She was, like I said, not only was she crafty, she was the most thoughtful.

Like on the trip, this was before iPads and phones. They had rented the biggest U-Haul and there was the three-seater. I think maybe she had already had the baby, Megan. I want to say that she did. I think maybe grandma, somebody came and got the baby, but it was just the three of us in the car or in the truck. And when I got in the truck, she had this big basket. And in the basket where they were like all wrapped in white paper and they had different random times like 1153 or whatever.

So as the trip went on, I got to open a present and it was like something fun like we could play a game together or color a picture together. And that was like still like that's one of the most special gifts I've ever gotten because I know how much thought went into that. On top of her doing all the packing, all the stuff like getting transitioned over for the new house parents to take over the girls, she thought of doing that. And I thought that was so cool. Plus, it's just such a good idea. And then I remember on the trip, I was just going to, I was going to turn 10 on the trip. So we were stopping at Kent's parents in Iowa. and we were pulled over at a rest stop and Emily was in the bathroom and Kent, I remember just

being up high on the seat and like he opened the passenger door and he looked up at me and was like, I just want you to know that you're never going to have to go anywhere ever again. We're going to keep you forever. We will love you forever. And I know that's hard for you to understand, but we're going to keep you forever. And I remember being like, just feeling like, oh, thank you. Like finally. This is it.

Like there's no like red flags. There's no like it's never going to change. I have the best life. Like I didn't care where we were going. I had no idea what the future held, but I knew I had them. And that's really all that mattered because they were the best thing in my life. and I was just really happy. So anyways, we got to Iowa and they had a little birthday party for me for my 10th birthday.

And it was fun. Ken's mom, I remember she was, I think she did like a daycare and she had like all sorts of crafts ready for me to do. She had like these tissue paper cutouts where you take glue and you dip your pencil in and you make a picture with it. It was so fun. So we stopped there for a couple days. maybe we got in all.

And then we moved to Davidson, Michigan. And, oh, well, we didn't get to Davidson first. Actually, I don't remember where we lived first. I would describe it as the ghetto, being older. Like, we lived on Nickerbocker Street in like a suburb of, I don't know where it was, actually. But I just remember being like, oh, this is sketchy. Yes. Yes.

Yes. It was, it just felt dirty. Like, I remember the house. She was great. I mean, she was able to whip up. She could turn anything into magic. And she did. I don't really remember that house too much.

I think they just had it for a little bit as temporary so they could find a house to buy. But I do remember that summer. She was, they were great. They were still fun. They got me a pool and all the neighborhood kids came over. And, like, I was the cool house because I had this, you know, pool. The type that you've unfolded. fold, you know, and you fill up with the hose. And it's weird now that I think about it because

Emily wasn't around a lot. I'm not sure if she had a job or what. And I don't know what Kent was doing. I want to say maybe he was in school or something. I remember seeing him more than her after we moved. But I remember it being, I think they only had one car because I remember we had to walk to the grocery store or gas station to get milk and like carrying it back. I just remember like little tidbits of like huh you know um but it was still good like they were still super awesome like i i practiced my reading with kent a lot at night i remember like getting in bed with them to like read to both of them um they just cared they cared that i was learning and then we moved to davison michigan and they had bought a fixer up her and it was really cool because she worked her magic again

and you'd never know because she painted plaid on the wall, okay? Like how do you do that? She could do it. But that's when things started to change fourth grade. I, Kent and Emily just weren't present in my life. They were there, but they weren't emotional. there. And it's so crazy how, like, even as a kid, like, I could pick up on it. And I couldn't figure out, like, is it me? Is it them? Is something else happening? Like, and then overcompensating,

like, to try me trying to make it better. Like, maybe if I do this, they'll love me more. Or maybe if I, I remember can't pulling me aside and just being like, why can't you just be like, like, normal kids who use their imagination and play by themselves. I remember that very distinctly. It was after church and and then I'm like, oh, okay, I'll do that. I'll do that. And I remember like a couple days later, I was. I was playing by myself.

I remember using my imagination and Kent being like, see, this is exactly what I mean. Jessica, you're doing a great job. And I remember feeling like, I did it. You know, like, he loves me. but yeah it slowly turned sour and I could never figure out why do you remember how their relationship was with their daughter

Megan? Was their focus on her? They were, I mean she was an infant she was literally, I don't even think she was two by the time I ended up leaving that family but yeah she was a baby, baby baby and I think I got along good with the baby. It didn't bother me that there was a baby

Like, you know, sometimes I know you deal with jealousy. I mean, I'm sure that there was times where I'm like, man, I wish you paid a little more attention to me. But I don't remember being like, oh, I hate this baby or how annoying. I didn't feel like that. I liked her. She was fine. She was just a baby.

But I, it just felt like, like I said, they started pulling away and I don't know what was going on on their end. And so I started overcompensating, like trying to get. more attention and I think that even drove them even more crazy because whatever they were dealing with or whatever they were going through like I made it worse by not I don't know even as I'm saying I'm like do you hear yourself you sound crazy like that's that's on them not you anyways so I made it through a school year barely fourth grade was horrible um struggled again with spelling that was my biggest thing I remember getting in a lot of trouble from my teacher miss a

less sprints about spelling and she caught me cheating off of a girl named Noelle. I did it. But I just wanted my parents to be proud of me. Like I felt stupid. So I got in trouble with that. But then summer came. And when summer came, I noticed pretty quickly that I wasn't at home a lot. They would send me with people like at church,

particularly a family, the Hemingway family. They always say this. I always say they had a million kids. They probably only had three. Anybody that has three or more kids, you have a million kids. Felt like a lot. Yeah. So the Hemingways, I spent a lot of time with them.

And I did not realize it until recently, like, how much time I was spending there, like days and days and days. Maybe even weeks. It was so much time. And now looking back how everything ended, I wonder if Kent and Emily were potentially prepping me to move in with this family. Again, that's just thinking. Yeah. That's possibly what happened. But it came to an end right after Christmas, right before I turned 11.

I think. They came to me and they, you know, were like, hey. Like, I remember even just, I remember him squatting down and I was like right at the stairs and him just being like, you know, we do love you. But, you know, we're going to have to send you away. And I remember, like, that was the first time like that it was just devastating. Like, you, you told me. You told me.

Yeah. I just remember, like, even in my head, like, not only physically, but telling him, like, you said that you would love me forever. Why would you do that? Like, you went out of your way to make me feel special. And what did I do? Like, even still to this day, like, I get angry when I think about it. Like, I didn't do anything.

I was a normal kid. I was not bad. I sucked at school. Yes, that is true. To no fault on my own. Let's be real. To no fault of my own. own. I was terrible at school. But I think too, you know, when you make a commitment like that,

I mean, in my opinion, if you're, that's a huge decision, you know, adopting a child and you kind of have to know or prepare yourself for the bad just as much as you do the good. Well, and that's the crazy thing. You're dealing with a human. Like anything can happen, anything can change. And I know from like in my own experience, which again, I'll get into like, I get it. But the difference is they had me years before they knew me there was no surprises oh this this child might have problems that we don't know how to deal with or we can't deal with no they knew exactly what they were getting into i was the same girl that they had known since i was eight yeah and here i am turning 11 like i haven't changed you have and so they told me yeah like

we can't keep you. They didn't really give me. I'm sure they did give me a reason, but by then I just remember it was like my whole, I could feel myself just shut down. Like I just remember not caring. I don't care what you have to say. I don't care. I don't want to hear your lies.

Like you're leaving again. And it was very scary because I didn't know where I was going. And I don't think at that time they really did either. They had a couple ideas, but I don't think they knew 100% where I was like. going. And so that was scary too. Looking back, I'm like, why did you tell me? And like, there was a long period of time where I knew. Um, my 11th birthday was a big moment. Kent and Emily had, well, Emily, I don't know why I say Kent. Emily was the creative one. She did everything. Must be real. She had thrown me a 11th birthday and she had my great grandma,

um, on her side, make me a birthday cake. And it was a Barbie birthday cake. It was one of those ones where it was like the Barbie standing up but you make the cake around the Barbie. It's like she's wearing a big dress. And Emily invited a ton of girls over from the church that I didn't know. I felt really awkward because I didn't know them and they knew each other. So they were already in their own little like clicks, but I just remember being like, I already have people skill issues. like this is this is a bad bad place to be and I was in that like awkward ugly face still

you know like just everything about I just oh and the girls were giggling in the living room and I remember it to this day I like this is probably the worst thing I've ever done in my life but like I was like oh this cake is stupid who does who has a Barbie cake because I wanted to sound cool I hate myself because my great grandma, she put so much time and effort into it and she was so proud of herself like you could tell. But I was trying to be cool for these girls that I didn't even know, which dumb. But after that, I got sent right up to my room and they had the birthday party without me, even though it was my birthday. So I would have done the same. If my kid did that, oh, he would have suffered a lot worse.

He would have been dead, you know, like. don't disrespect your grandma like that. Yeah. So even to the same, I was so embarrassed about it. Like, that was tough. And then maybe I think, yeah, it must have been right after that they told me. But there was time. Like, I remember like dreading when I was going to have to leave.

So, yeah, I had just turned 11. They moved me up to, at least it was still in Michigan. It was in St. Louis, Alma Airy, it. area, Michigan, like near Mount Pleasant, a little bit south of Mount Pleasant, Michigan. And it's called the Baptist Children's Home. And that's pretty much where life just went to hell. It was, anyways, I don't remember them dropping me off. And you were 11, you said?

Yeah, it was 11. They told me, oh, we'll come and visit you. I mean, I think they were only like a couple hours from me, maybe an hour and a half. We'll come visit you, we'll write to you. I think I got one letter. And it was from Kent. No. That was really hard for me.

Even still to this day, like. Well, yeah, because I think that, you know, they made the biggest impact. Like, you really connected with them. They were a huge turning point in my life. You connected with them. You looked at them as like this safe space, these parents to you. Emily was the first woman that I just, she was like everything to me. Like even still to this day, I just.

it hurts, you know, like. Well, because they gave you something, they promised you something, and then they took it away. That is, that is so hard and so painful for a child. And even the birthday cake thing, you can hate that you did that all you want. But at the same time, like, you were just a child trying to, like, you had so many things going on. Plus on top of it, you're trying, like, it is, that is such a normal thing to do. Yeah. Like, okay, yeah.

A parent, if that happens and you just respect your grip. parent. Like, yeah, I get it. Like you punish the kid, whatever, but like, you shouldn't be angry at yourself for that because you were just a kid trying to fit in where you could. It's just that. Even back then, that's just not who I was. I was very self-conscious of other people's feelings. Even at that age, like, I have always been like, especially the elderly. I have such a love for the elderly community. And so I think that's why because even to this day, like, I love going to the nursing home. I'd take my son there. But that really bothered me that I did that.

Even the most perfect people make mistakes. Oh, I know. And it's okay. And the thing is, but prior to that, you know, these two people that you loved and cherished so much were pulling away from you. Yeah. So you probably had such a whirlwind of emotions going on and just. Yeah. Yeah.

It was very confusing. It made sense when they were like, we're getting rid of you. I mean, obviously they didn't say that. but basically yes they were getting rid of me yeah i was inconvenient i was a toy that was done being played with it was all those thoughts like just for a long time i lived with a lot of anger um and not even so much towards kent like i do feel like i had a good relationship but it was emily emily was the one that like she was just like we were we were meant to be like she was was everything to me.

Now, this might be skipping ahead, but have you reached out to them since? Yes and no. Okay. Yes and no. Like, have you seen them since that or no? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Should we wait?

Oh, yeah. You're going to die. You're going to die. I'm going to die telling you. Okay. So you're at the Baptist place now. So I'm at the Baptist Children's home. It's set up the same way.

You're in totally different houses. It's not a compound. I mean, it's you've got. in Elma there was or where we're St. Louis that's where I live. St. Louis there was a house here and there was a house right across the street and they both had lots of acreage and but they were big houses they were set up with several rooms and again each house had 10 kids it was co-ed there wasn't just this is only girls house this is only a boy's house well actually they take it back they did it the house across the street was only

for boys but the difference was this was a little bit of these kids would come in because, you know, their parents were having some issues that their parents needed to take care of and they needed a temporary spot for their kid. Most of the time it was kids had some big issues and the parents didn't know how to deal with them and instead of maybe these kids going to Juvee, they went here. So it was like a kind of in-between place for troubled kids. It's definitely known.

they're not around anymore. But when it was, it was known because the bad kids go here. I wasn't, though. I just didn't have parents. So I got there and I think it was the Villanovas. I want to say Gloria and Bill. They had a daughter, Katie. She was young.

She was like two, I think. but they were great. They were fun. It was the same setup. We had relief house parents. They would go. I don't really remember too much about them. The dad, he very hands-on.

He taught me like how to build and use tools. And even to this day, I, like, I got hooked. Then we built a shed. We built a garden shed. And that's me on a course. Like, I love doing woodwork and building. So thanks to him. Right.

Yeah. So, but yeah. And like, he was fun. He built a, we, we lived on, like, a stream or a river. And we built a zip line to go across. I didn't really have too many bad experiences except for some of the kids. Because it was co-ed, there were some boys that came through the house that were, like, really inappropriate. I had a roommate, Ashley.

she like beat me up and was like I'm going to stab you to death like it's just stuff like that I felt like constantly it wasn't but at the time it felt like it was a little scary but I did not go there in the hopes that I would end up moving back like I did with Bill and Lydia I just knew that it was never going to happen Kent ended up sending me maybe one or two letters trying to describe what I would say is postpartum depression. Maybe that was the excuse that they were trying to pass off because she had Megan and then she had gotten pregnant

with another kid that she had after she had sent me away. She had just had the baby by the time I had moved into the children's home. I don't believe it. I think there's a lot more like, like again, because you don't you don't raise a kid for three years and then say no so I don't know it's still even to this day I'm like there I don't think I'll have I have I have I have not gotten the truth from them and I don't think I ever will yeah but I'm okay with that I don't the only reason that I'm talking about is comes I'm telling you but other than that like it's not something I

dwell on every once in a while I will think of Emily how she's doing but other than that I don't care. Right. I'm over it. So I'm in the children's home. The Villanuevas, they were great. They were there pretty temporary. I think they were probably only there like maybe nine, ten months.

And then they ended up moving. She got pregnant with her second child. And then they ended up moving. And here's a parent, a group that I just don't remember. There was somebody there. We had somebody else. And then we had we, me, I had different parents. I think it was Rich and Darla, Richard and Darla.

And they were different. They had two little boys. Joshua, I don't remember the younger one. And I just remember the one. He was like, I'm going to be a pastor when I grew up. And he would preach everywhere he went. And it was funny. But Rich and Darla, they just, as an adult, like I said, as an adult, I can look back and be like, man, they were just trying their best.

Yeah. Because there was some older girls. Like, I remember a big thing like, and he must have felt so embarrassed. But a lot of us were going through puberty and changing and boy crazy. And like, I couldn't imagine, like, being trying to be a parent, knowing that you're not the parent, but like trying to instill. like good values that other people will accept without being a jerk about it. But I remember there was a girl in our house and she was wearing really short, short. She had come back from a home visit.

Home visit is basically when the kids are allowed to go home to their parents. And you know what? I should totally back up. I forgot about that. That was a big thing at the Sunshine Acres is during the holidays and summertime, like the kids would go home to their parents. Okay. I was always the only kid.

left alone. It sucked. Like, I remember Christmas morning, like waking up. Emily did make the best out of it. She was so awesome. She had amazing stalking for me and, like, just brought me into her family. But, yeah, holidays were tough. Like, Thanksgiving, I just remember I was always the only kid waking up to an empty, quiet house felt really weird and being like, oh, cool, you're getting home with your mom. That's awesome. Good for you. You know? So, but anyway, so back to, to the Baptist children's home. Rich and Darla, I remember there was a girl. She were, she had come back from a home visit and she came back with like spaghetti

strap and short shorts, like short boxer shorts. And he had pulled her side and was like, hey, like you need to change. It's inappropriate. And well, why? You know, the whole catiness of teenage girls. Plus he's not her dad. So. And he's like, well, you know, you don't realize the temptation that you put on other.

boys, because we had boys living in our house, other boys or men when you wear stuff like that, you know. And I remember her just going off on him and me being like, yeah, you're a sicko. Like, and now as an adult, I'm like, man, like what he is saying is so true because it's like, you know, even I'm careful about what I wear, like, what brings attention to you. And he was just trying, he was just trying to give her life example like, hey, you know, you're going to surround yourself with people that you attract. And if that's what you're attracting, that's fine. But you should know that. And he will, I, in no way did I think he was like, like, trying to be inappropriate and be like, you know, I'm turned on by what you're wearing. He was just simply saying. I remember that being a big moment in my life, too, like of learning something. So that's one thing I learned from him as a house parent. Otherwise, I didn't really like him. I don't really like her that much either.

I mean, I don't think we didn't get along, but I don't remember them too much. Just like, you know. So they were there. The kids did come and go a lot. It was a lot different than Sunshine Acres, where the kids were there a lot longer. Because I think, like I said, with Sunshine Acres, I think the parents had to, like, do their steps in order. to get their kids back. Whereas with the children's home, the Baptist children's home, the parents were like,

please take my kid, help me out. So it's a little bit different. So the kids rotated quite often. But I was a constant there. After Darlin Rich, they moved me into the house across the street, which I thought was really interesting because the house across the street was all boys. And they had a special program. I cannot remember what it's called.

My brother told me yesterday and I just totally forgot. But it was a system where these kids came in. They were very troubled, like extra troubled. And you would have to go through a program in order to like be put in normal homes, I guess. And basically what it was is you had to ask. permission for everything. Like literally everything, if I was asked, if I wanted to go into that hallway right there, I would have to say, Uncle Derek, may I please go into the hallway?

And then if I needed to go from the hallway to the bathroom, Uncle Derek, can I please go into the bathroom? It was crazy. Yeah. I did not have to do that. So this was across the street, but this was still part of the same. It was still part of the Baptist Children's Home. A different house.

It was a house specifically for really troubled boys. Do you know why they put you over there? I'm trying to remember. I think that I want to say a lot of the kids that I had lived with in the previous house with Rich and Darla, they had went home to their parents. And you were an only girl over there? Yeah. I think, yeah. Yep.

Okay. But, so this was Derek and Heather. They were cool. I did not have to go through the program. Thank God. There's no way. Like, even looking back, like, I probably would have been a nightmare if they made me. But why would they?

Like, I wasn't, obviously. It was a very weird situation, I think, for the children's home because they had me and they were like, I could just always feel like, we don't know what to do with this girl. Like, she doesn't fit our program. She doesn't fit, like, with what we've got going on. But anyways, so Derek and Heather, they had, I think, two or three kids of their own. And they were little. Like, I want to say, like, seven.

and five and three. Maybe they only had two. I got along with them really great. It was temporary. I think it was probably only for four or five, six months. Maybe it was longer. Everything kind of gets jumbled together. It's very hard to distinguish what happened.

But I lived there. I had a good relationship with both of them. I, they never made me, like, I don't remember ever being like, mad at them or like, oh, these parents suck. Like I did, I know I had felt that way once with Rich and Darla. So far, good experiences with the few different parents that I had had.

Again, Derek and Heather really cared about the kids. You could tell, like, especially with the program that they were running. I mean, they had some kids that I remember some of these boys, like, you know, it was interesting. Yeah. Um, so, but they were fun. They let me be a kid. Like, I remember they would let me go on a bike ride with a couple of the kids and like, just do some more independent stuff as I was getting into my preteen years.

I had turned 12 by then. I think even when I was there, my 13th birthday was there with them. So yeah, speaking of bike rides. So the Baptist children's home, one of the things that they did in order to help like fun their programs and stuff for the kids, so they would hold a bike-a-thon, a 50-mile bike-a-thon. And they would have us kids go and ask, like, local community members, or house-to-house even, and to raise money for it.

And that was my jam. I look forward to it every year because you got a prize, too, if you earn the most money. You know I was winning that, like, for sure. So we would do that. That's a memory I have there. that we did every year. They were involved in our church.

And I think that's when I really started to want a relationship with Christ and like want to understand it. They would bring us to church and a lot of youth events. And they would listen to like Unshackled and Adventures in Odyssey. Have you ever heard of Adventures in Odyssey? It's a kids program. It's really cute. My son listens to it.

Unshackled is more like, it's kind of like really many versions of your podcast and how they turned their life around and got saved and, you know, where their life went. So, but yeah, they, they were great. They, I want to say they ended up moving to. But I don't think, I actually think I was still there, but they just wanted, oh, I know why. They wanted to move me up to the Mount Pleasant home, which was about 30 minutes from that particular house. because at that home, they sent us to private school. Actually, the whole time.

When I got to the Baptist Children's Home, I went to Mount Pleasant Baptist Academy. And because of the drive, I think they just wanted me to be closer. So I ended up moving up to Mount Pleasant into a totally new home that was, again, co-ed. I'm trying to think who my first house parents were. I want to say it was Bill and Kathy. Bill and Kathy were the – Bill was the director of the children's home. But I think because they were short-staffed or something, they ended up house parenting. I don't exactly remember the timeline of it, but I just remember they were our parents for a short period of time.

And then it was during that time that I think. I think I remember that Bill became my guardian. Because Lydia came up to visit, which I thought was really weird. I hadn't seen her since I was eight. And you were how old at this point? I am 13. Okay. She had flown up to Michigan.

And I remember her saying she was there to sign papers and stuff. She said it was because of the dog bite. but now that I'm looking at it I don't think that's what it was I think she was signing over her parental rights again or doing something or you know what she was the custodian of so when I got bit by the dog their insurance company the other family that had the dog they had they had settled so that I could still have extra if I needed any more surgeries and stuff which I did so I think she was taking care of maybe that I actually really don't know because they signed their rights away to sign. sandchain acres. And then obviously they gave their rights to Kent and Emily. It was crazy. Like that's why I say it's a weird thing because I definitely wouldn't say foster care because it's nothing, nothing like that.

But it's also not group homes because I really did have people that like, we're like, okay, we want to adopt you. Yeah. So many times. So it's weird to categorize the story. But so Bill became your guardian. Bill became. Yes.

And I don't know why. I just remember she was there for a couple days. Did you see her? Yeah. She took me out to lunch. She took me shopping, which I also know now that I'm older. All the stuff we did, I remember thinking like, wow, I didn't know you had money. It was my money from my dog bite.

You know, I just had a thought. Like, I really actually don't know how much I was ever awarded. for the dog bite. I don't know if the children's home ever got any of it. Because let's be honest, it's not a free program. I asked my brothers last night, did your parents have to pay to send you? And they were like, oh, yeah.

So that just occurred to me. But who knows, she could have been there to give them some of the money that I was awarded for the dog bite. Probably not, allegedly. Maybe. I don't know. That's just me thinking. But yeah, she was there.

And it doesn't make sense. Nothing else would make sense but that. Right. You know, because she had already signed her. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't know. Anyways, but he became my guardian after that. So I live with them.

Bill and Kathy, they were interesting. They were very strict. I just remember, like, it was, like, walking on eggshells around them. Like, and then when he was like, I'm your guardian now, and like, oh, that sucks. Yeah. Right. But I don't remember anything negative about that. I'm like, there's nothing that I'm like, oh, you did this to me.

Or like that, no. I mean, they were nice. They were very nice people. I remember they took us out on a lake day and that was really fun. But yeah, they were gone after a little while and we had new house parents. So how does that work? So if he, if Bill became your guardian, then he would have to sign the rights over to whoever is no again? Yes, which he did.

Yeah. Okay. There was a lot of passing around. was like, yeah. Okay, so who was next? I believe it was Phil and Margaret. Okay. Still 13?

Possibly 14. Okay. But you're still within this Baptist Church? Baptist Children's Army. Yes, I'm here until I'm 17. Yeah. So, yep, Phil and Margaret. He was an ex-Vietnam War Vett.

And she, I believe, it's an older. Like, she used to be a teacher, like a school teacher or something. something like that. So very strict, very old school, very, um, no nonsense. And the amount of like adapting you had to do, I'm sure, to all these different parenting styles you could say in personalities. It's like, they were all so different. But at least one thing I will say is, at least I wasn't passed to different homes. Yeah. You know, like I know some kids go through foster care. And they're like, yeah, I was in 30 different houses.

And it's like, that would be tough. Because not only are you in a new environment, but your new parents too, new schools, new everything normally. But anyway, so Phil and Margaret, they were interesting because they were older. They had already had full grown kids. I have no idea what possessed them to be like, yeah, let's go take care of these teenage kids that are all like crazy. At this point, did you have any type of like, I guess, were you acting out in any types of ways?

Did you have any, like, anger that you felt or you're just like cruising through right now? I'm just cruising through. I, you know, and I even asked my husband, I'm like, you know, because my husband and I have known each other since we were 15. I'm like, was there like any part where you're like, you know, I've told you everything. You know me since I've been a kid. Like, would you say like, what's the worst? thing I've ever done. And even, I think this was yesterday.

Maybe two days ago I asked him because I'm like, you know, like, what's my worst flaw? Yeah. Just to get like a different perspective. Yeah. Just to get. I'm like, you can be honest. I don't care. And he couldn't think of him.

I'm like, here, let me tell you yours first. So you can feel good about doing it. So. So, yeah. No. I mean, honestly, I didn't struggle with anything until I went boy crazy, which was until like 15. Okay. I think in my earlier childhood.

I would lie. But like the only time I lied was to like, like I said, when nobody else would admit it. Like I was always, it didn't matter which house I was in. I'd be like, yep, I did it. Like, what's the worst consequence? Like, and then I think I got to the point where I was like, I might as well do it. You know, like, I'm suffering the consequences for it. I'm going to do it.

But it's always done stuff. Like, who stole the candy bar? Right. But no. Like, I can be honest with myself and be like, the worst character trait that I had was that I would seek attention. Like, hey, what are you doing? Do you need a hand? Can I help you?

Like, I'm sure I was so annoying. I feel like that's normal. Yeah. So, Phil and Margaret, they were like the strictest and they were very verbally abusive, especially to some of the boys. I think Phil, he obviously had some stuff that he went through with Vietnam. And like he would, we would be reminded that. Well, he was in Vietnam. Well, he was in Vietnam.

And it's like we at that time, we had no clue what that meant. Now that I've done a lot of research about Vietnam, I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. You know, depending on what he did, which we never found out, but he did. But, yeah. He was just grumpy. There was just a grumpy guy. Like, oh, miserable. He's one of the people you don't want to be around because they're just, you can feel

their energy, energy. And then Margaret, she was bigger. I remember she was doing a lot to, like, lose weight, which she did. She was like, yeah, I lost 30 pounds just by going like this. And I'm like, I hate you so much. You know, like, good for you. But I don't remember too much about. them except for that they were very like just angry and they would yell.

I had never really experienced that before. The meeting like people yelling. Oh, I did do one bad thing. I snuck out the window. We lived. So me and my roommate, me and my sister, Lindsay, she and I were roommates. And we lived in the basement, but it was like a try level so you could like easily go out the window and like, ground floor you know um we would sneak out and i was um we went behind the school dumpster and

smoked a cigarette was my first cigarette and i'm like oh this is gross like never did that again but i did it had to try yeah i did it it was just a lot of that like just trying new things and like one time we snuck out um there was a neighbor that had just gotten a free house from um habitat for humanity and they had a boy and I was like he was interested in me. I really wasn't interested in him but I was like this could be fun you know but other than that they caught us somebody I think somebody told on us jerk right anyways yeah but um I don't remember too much from them um I luckily I had the school so I was going to Mount Pleasant Baptist Academy, private Christian school, and our classes were

pretty small. Mine was actually pretty big. I think we had like 12 or 13 kids. And, you know, it was pretty equal, half girls, half boys. I had gone through a phase where I did not like the girls. There's too much drama. And like, I was very tomboy. Like so much so I wore boy clothes, which is scary because in today's world, I'm like, like, shoot, would, like, I have been like trans-ish. Like, I don't, I hope not. But I just loved being around the voice. There's no drama.

Everybody played football. Everybody was cool. And I was accepted. And that was really cool. I remember being like, oh, I'm the same height as you to a boy. Oh, we're the same way at 136. Now I'm like, man, I killed, like, what? 136.

But I was It was like That's when I started going through my awkward transition Like I remember one of the house parents Be like you grew boobs It was a dude too I don't remember which one it was

I was like oh you grew boobs And I'm like Should you tell me that Right But I did I grew him like overnight And I got tall and super skinny Like 90 pounds just very petite.

I played a lot of sports. I ran track. I really didn't like running, but any excuse to be away from the house. I would do every sport. I played track. I played basketball. We didn't have,

I think they had soccer. I didn't play that. But I really loved that. I really loved being competitive and being first. If you're not first, you're last, right? So I was very, competitive mentally.

Like I always had to win. But the crazy thing is I never had to do it for anybody else. I loved that. Like I loved that trait of myself is that I was doing it for myself. Like I just wanted to be the best because I could. Right. And I wanted it. Yeah, the school was great.

I had my first crush on Bjorn Carlson. He was, I think, a grade above me or grade lower. It's funny because my brother pulled out a picture and I'm like, how? Like, no way. What was I thinking? No way. But like, I look at my journals and I'm like, oh, geez, girl, like you are obsessed. Get over it.

He did not like me back. Yeah. Which, whatever. His loss. But it was a very, very small school. So everybody knew everybody. Everybody knew everybody's business. Eventually I kind of got out of that tomboy phase.

And I started realizing once I got boobs, I was like, oh. I should brush my hair. I should maybe put a little bit of makeup on. So I transitioned to that part where I was almost girly girl. And yeah, the girls in my class were really great. I had two best friends, Tamara and Jenny. Jenny, I became friends with her once again because her mom gave her a bowl cut as well. And we matched and we hated our lives.

So, but very, very interesting because she's very quiet, the A-plus student. I used to call her Goody Two Shoes, never would get in trouble. But I also really connected with her because she was adopted. She was adopted, I believe, at birth, or maybe she was very young. And then Tamara, she just. was down to try anything. I needed somebody like that. But school was great. I really loved school. I loved sports. I did excel. Once I understood some of the properties of the English language and stuff like that, I enjoyed, you know, doing topics and stuff in English and enjoyed that. my teachers were all really great and the nice thing about the school was I didn't feel judged.

Everybody knew we were from the Baptist Children's Home, but I never felt like that I was different or that I was stupid or that I needed to make a point to be different. So that was cool. But back to Phil and Margaret. I think they had too much of a taste and they were like, They were ready to leave and they did. And then we had Jeff and Raina. So Jeff and Raina, I want to say, were already house parents down in St. Louis. And they, man, I really don't know how they ended up coming up to Mount Pleasant.

But anyways, they ended up coming to our house. And I was actually kind of excited at the time because I had gotten a lot of. along with Raina during other activities and just different events that we did. I think she was also, they were also relief house parents. So sometimes like we would have them. And every time she was really cool. Like I remember like she taught me how to pluck my eyebrows like back when it was like cool to like have the paper line. Oh, I did that.

But she was like, no, no, no, girl, let's do it this way. Yeah. And like ever since then I'm like, oh, she's so right. She was fun. I really liked both of them. But it changed after time. So by this time I'm like 14. No, I missed somebody before Jeff and Raina.

Okay, Jeff and Raina are, they are relief house parents. That's how I know them. I think they came in temporarily between Phil and Margaret just for a few weeks or maybe a month or two to fill in before the next houseparents, which were Jessica and Wayne Graves. and they were the best house parents I've ever had. They were also younger. Jessica had just had her first baby, Paul, and he was probably only like six months old. He was little. I remember him being very, very little.

And I remember the day they moved in, they had their baby, like, sitting up on, like, a table like this. And I was, like, showing them something. And I remember being like, like, and look. And I went like this and, like, I hit that baby so hard. Yeah, that was my very first interaction. with them. And that sucked. But no, they were great.

They, yeah, Jessica, it's funny because, again, I was talking to my two brothers, like, let's do a refresh. Like, they didn't know. They don't know that I'm doing this. Okay. My one brother does, but my other one and my sister, she doesn't know. I haven't told them. I'm not going to.

But I was getting like, hey, do you remember this? Like, tell me about it. Because that is one thing. that I noticed a lot is my memories are so bad. And I think it's because I've blocked so much out. But so they were like, oh, yeah, Jessica, she used to be like, she was the dominant one. She was the one that wore the pants. I'm like, I don't remember that at all.

Like, so it's funny how our perspectives are different. But so Wayne, he taught me how to change the oil in a car. And he took me on like a special. free homecoming date with one of the younger boys that lived in the house. And it was just, he just really cared. He, they hadn't been parents. So I think it was like a learning curve for them. And they were just trying to, well, what would I like?

What would, what, how were my parents? They were great. They, it's, it was interesting over time to see which parents were doing a job or which parents cared about you. And I always know which ones. These ones cared about us. they let me be a teenager. Like they let me have a crush.

They let me, they would talk to me about it. Like, just like stuff like if I had a mom, like, you know, I would want that. So one of the things that the children's home offered was they were really good about people sponsoring the kids to be able to go to Bible camp. So we would do a family camp every summer and then also a teen camp. And that year, I was 15, with Wayne and Jessica, we went up to Northland Baptist Bible camp, and that's where I met my husband. But even at the camp, I remember meeting my husband and being like, I actually liked his friend. And like he was just like a tag along. And then I don't know.

It was something about, I think one of the, I think his friend did something cringy. And I was like, hmm. And then at that age, I'm like, well, I guess I'll go for you. Yeah. But then I started really liking him. Like, he was really nice and, like, just different and didn't need to be cool. He didn't try to show off. But anyways, I just remember after camp, Jessica was like, hey, I saw you talking to that boy.

Like, I'm going to talk about it. And she'd be like, oh, this was before, like, right at the cusp of Internet, too. Like, you know, we were still sun in snail mail. And, like, oh, don't forget this. Add this into it. And she was just so great. She genuinely cared. And, yeah, she was just fun.

It's surprising, actually, as I'm telling you this, because as an adult, I feel like, and you'll understand as I get more into it, but as an adult, I feel like it was always the women that I had so much problems with. But like, I'm telling you all these women, I'm like, yeah, I left them. So it's weird. But Wayne was great, too. He was very, he's just such a sensitive, gentle soul. Like, he was definitely born like 200 years ago. Very polite and respectful.

And you could tell he really, like, before he would say what he would say, he would think about it. Like, he just, man, what a good guy. Like, he was, even to this day, like, I still, every once in a while, I'll send him a little note or something. They're just the sweetest family. Yeah, I didn't. I had my first boyfriend, my husband, John David, and we were at camp. I had my first kiss. We snuck away into the men's dorms and met up in the stairwell.

He gave me a Mentos beforehand, obviously. Super romantic. But no, we would go to camp, summer camps. Lake Anne is how actually Wayne and Jessica still to this day their baby Paul grew up and he's a camp counselor at Lake Anne Baptist Bible camp. And so I think that's so cool to see the full circle. But that's how they got us involved to that. And even actually I send my own son to Lake Anne now. So it's really, it's just so cool.

So that's the impact they made out me and I can change your oil if you need. So, so school's going good. I'm starting to realize that I like every boy that goes by me. I am pretty sheltered. I mean, the only time I meet new people is either at church or school. And our school is so small. We never get any new kids. And yeah, so I liked everyone, you know, I was ready.

Like, even though I had John David, it was different because he was, you know, in Wisconsin. And I was in Michigan. And we live pretty far apart. So it was just one of those like, it was nice to have a pen pal and, you know, the fantasy of like, yeah, I love you so much. We're going to get married. Yeah. That was never going to happen. So it's so weird like saying all this and like smiling about it because another thing I did to like look back.

back and like think about what I wanted to share on this podcast was I read through some of my diaries. That was another thing. I kept a lot of diaries. It got to a point where I had a full diary where the opening sentence was, today was the worst day of my life. And then it would go into detail. And then the next day. I know that I said yesterday was, but no, today. And it was every day. Today was the worst day of that life. So, Wayne and Jessica ended up leaving. They had another, they had another kid, Olivia. I don't think they had her while we were there.

I think it was after they moved. And that's when Jeff and Raina came back. And I was, like I said, I was pretty excited because I had overall gotten along with them and interacted well with them. They had three kids. They had two daughters and his son. and Jeff was pretty down to earth and he was also, I want to say he was the youth pastor. I can't remember.

I think he was. Or he helped be the youth pastor. And so he was fun. He always had really cool games and, you know, just group activities. So it worked well. Slowly after they moved in, Lindsay, my sister moved in. She has her own stories. I won't really talk too much about her.

But she struggled with a lot of stuff. And they like, she, again, because she was coming from a little bit of a troubled situation. And she needed to be there. But she, I remember she moved in with two corn CDs. And listening to secular music was like, you're going to hell. And they took her CD collection away. I remember how mad she was. Like, can you believe that?

And then I was like, well, I moved here when I was 11. Oh, no, I've never had a CD before. Like, you know. But it was just interesting. I got along really great with her pretty much right off the bat. Even though it's funny because today we're a lot different personalities, but we still talk and get along really well. But Jeff and Raina, they,

they started to change when a girl named Diana moved back to the children's home. She either, I can't remember she was just in a different house or if she had gone home and then her mom sent her back or what the situation was. But she was temporary and then she was gone and then she came back. Raina and Jeff really loved Diana. Like so much so, like we knew they wanted to adopt her, whatever. Cool. Knew it.

You know. They were very close with her, but it started getting weirdly toxic. Like, I don't even know how to describe it. Like, they would say that I wanted to, like, take Diana's place. Or I don't know. It's kind of confusing. The house parents would be? Yes.

And, like, I'm like, no, no, I'm good. Yeah. Like, I like you guys, but I would never want you to be my parents. No way. It never even crossed my mind, which, you know, I should mention, like, unfortunately, that's something I fantasized a lot about. Like, maybe they could be my parents. You never know. Like, somebody knew from school or somebody, which there was a lot of that, a ton of different people from churches and stuff. Like, we want to adopt you. And I'm like, oh, don't tell me. Like, that's never going to happen. So, but like with Jeff and Raina, I never one time was fantasized.

Like, oh, I wish they would. No. No. No. They were. How. parents. They were good house parents, but it just that, I don't know, like, that wasn't it for me. But they started slowly, and I want to say it was mainly Raina. She is so vile. Like, even to this day, I have nothing nice to say about her. And it's funny because my brother just told me, yeah, sometimes she asks about you. And I'm like, don't tell her anything. She doesn't get to know anything. She is dead to me. Like, they both are. Like, So she would do like crazy things. Like I was telling my brothers last night.

Like dress code was a strict thing. Like our school did have a dress code, but like they were even more strict on what girls could wear. Like I do understand modesty and like, but they took it to a whole new level. Like I remember I went with Lindsay. Lindsay had, she was only there temporary. She had moved out and she moved back in with her grandma. And I went with her and another school friend to the mall, which I'm like, I can't believe they let me go to the mall, but they let me go to the mall with her.

And I had bought a new pair of jeans from the buckle. They were my first, like, I'd saved up all my money in the world because they were like 70 bucks. I bought a pair of silver jeans. And I was so proud. Like, I bought these with my own money. And I got back. And I tried them on because Raina was like, I need to make sure that they're appropriate.

I'm like, they're bell bottom. I was like, oh my gosh, those look like you have a baseball. bat stuck up your butt. And I was just like one that doesn't even make sense. I was like 15, 16 years old. No, I was 15. 16? I don't know. But I was just like, man, you're so rude. Like, can't you just, she knew how excited I was and she always had to rain down on that. Like, it didn't matter what it was, whether it was basketball, like something that I loved. It was always a negative comment always and it just got so crazy like I couldn't do or say anything without her criticizing me one of the biggest things that I remember with her I told my brothers this like it's funny because

they have good experiences with Jeff Arena and like when I was mentioning a couple things last night they were like oh my gosh you're right I totally know what you're talking about I know exactly what you mean. Like it was so bad with Jeff and Raina. My brother Ben told me last night, he was like, you weren't even in the house during this time. I was like, yeah, I was. I was just locked in my room. Like, you don't remember a whole period of our lives because I was locked away. So Jeff and Raina, it started with little critiques. And then it just built and built and built. And I have no idea like why they hated me so much, but they did. It was Christmas. a lot of people would donate stuff like Bath and Body Works and Honestly like a lot of junk

To give to us kids so we had stuff for Christmas granted all the other kids they got stuff from their parents and Cool stuff but anyways I got this sweater I remember when I opened it I remember particularly being like this is butt ugly I'm not wearing this but then I later, I want to say it was later that night or the next day. I was walking down the hall and I heard Raina talking to Diana, the girl. That was my age that they wanted to adopt. And they were saying like, how long do you think it's going to be before Jessica complains about the ugly sweater we gave her?

Like a setup. Yeah. Oh, I wore that sweater. I never said none. Good. But I do remember, like, soak. Like, that was the most. moment that I realized, like, you're purposely doing this. And then you're trying to pass it off

that you're a good person and that I'm the problem because I'm the troubled kid. Like, that irked me. Even then at that age, I knew exactly what game she was playing. And it just was so gross. And so I just, I hated them from like, the less I had to speak with them or interact with them, the better. Well, unfortunately, it got worse from there. I played sports, but they decided to take that away. And I cannot remember the specific thing that I supposedly did or didn't do. But they would not let me play on the basketball team. And that was awful for me, because I was very competitive. I wouldn't say I was a great player. I mean, if I had to say, I would be like, I was the best.

I definitely wasn't. But I had that confidence that I was the best, even though I wasn't. But I just loved it so much. And they took that away for me. And they knew what they were doing when they took it away. And then it was like, okay, not only are we going to take that away, but now we're also thinking that you're anorexic. Because I was just, I've always been very petite.

Like, just, I mean, you saw my son. He's very petite. That was me. Like, I was just a small person. And they said I was anorex. I'm like, you see me eat all the time. Like, you literally watch us when we eat. Like, I can pound a whole pizza, okay?

Like, so because of that, they decided to drop me off at my locker at school, pick me up for lunch. I was not allowed to eat lunch in the cafeteria. Pick me up from school at my locker. I had to wait for them to come and pick me up. then they would make me drink special shakes with raw eggs and like insurers and stuff like that, which I'm like, I don't know what you hope to gain. I don't think I'd put on any way. But I was drinking these nasty insurer shakes all the time. They grounded me to my room. Like I was not allowed to leave my room without asking permission. And that's where it comes back

to the story of my brother didn't even realize I live in the house at the same time as him during that period of our lives because I was just always hidden away. I was not allowed to be involved in activities, church activities. It sucked. It sucked so bad. I ran away. I was over it. I said enough as enough. And I ran away to Tamara's house. Her dad was a state trooper. But he was the safest. He knew my situation. Tomorrow was my best friend. So she knew every. everything that I was going through. And I know I told her dad and mom quite a few things that I didn't agree with that, you know, I thought, you know, this is questionable at this children's home. Like, there were a couple of things. Like, if we lied, we ended up having to pick up rocks, like big

boulder type rocks and you'd have to move them from like one tree to the other, which, you know, whatever, not that big of a deal, but you'd have to do 20 and it was a pretty far distance. It would take time. Not anything that, like, hurt us. But. But, you know, whatever. Not that, like, hurt us. But, But if we swore, meaning like, I couldn't even say crap. Like that was, we would have to dig a three foot by three foot by three foot hole and then bury it. And one time I had the bright idea to write out the lyrics to all of Nellie's first CD. I was digging for days. You were in the hole.

Oh, yeah. Oh, man. So it's just like little stuff that I'm like and just the way they treated us and, you know, some other questionable things. What were you when you ran away? I was 16. I was 16 years old. Yep. So the first time I ran away, I just was like, I'm done. Bye. See ya. And I went out the back door. And I was with her at her house. Like, I think right away, they ended up moving me back down to. Back down to. the St. Louis home with another, with different house parents. Oh, I think that's during this. So I don't remember these house parents' names. They obviously didn't like me because Jeff and Raina had told them what a terrible kid I was and all these problems and then, you know, they couldn't take, they can handle me anymore. And so they're moving me down here. I need a backup to, actually. after Lindsay moved out when I was like 14 or 15, I ended up not only being the only girl in the house, but I was the only white person, which I didn't realize at the time. Like that had never been something that like crossed my mind color. Like never like my homecoming dates were always like I always, it was always I always dated a black guy.

Like I never crossed my mind until my brother last night was like, You know that I think it's crazy? You were the only white person. I'm like, oh, it was, wasn't I? And he was like, yeah, I can't believe you were a white girl. You were the white girl in the family. I'm like, well, now that you put it that way. Yeah.

But so I think that dynamic with it all being boys was really different. And my brothers gave me a lot of insight too on like when they moved in. They were very like. Like, I guess Tito wasn't. Tito was really little. His mom just couldn't take care of him. But the other ones, they had some major issues. They should have been in Jubey.

One should have been in Joe, for sure. But it was a great alternative. And so they were telling me that not only did their parents have to pay to send them to this program, but that Jeff and Bill went out to the hood to get them. I can't. They called it the hood. I don't know what part of New York it was. the boroughs.

They went out to get them and they did home visits there in New York twice before they brought them all over here, which also I was telling my brother last night, I was like, yeah, that is different because up until you guys, it was always white kids. I mean, there was a couple here and there, but it was mostly white dominant. But again, as a kid, I never noticed those things. Like, why would I? It wasn't talked about like as just normal, which I love. I loved that.

I didn't have any questions about that. But it was interesting hearing them tell me those things because I didn't realize it. So I ran away and I was down in the St. Louis home again with Newhouse Parents, hated me because of whatever Jeff and Rina had told them that it was a person. I also at this time ended up, I was still, I liked John David, but he wasn't around. And I got a new boyfriend. He was on the soccer team. His name was Larry.

He was cute. But honestly, it sounds so horrible. I really only dated him just to piss Jeff and Raina off, you know. That sounds so terrible because he was really nice to me and he really liked me. I didn't not like him, but there was a lot of things where I'm like, I would never date somebody like you in real life. his mom was really wonderful but yeah so I was dating this Larry guy and I was also experimenting a lot with who I was I was still a virgin and yeah so it was fun and I would write very detailed notes in the diary No, this is a letter that I had written to Larry and I left it in my pocket.

You know, the good old, oh, I was washing your clothes for you and I found something. So that happened. And they found this letter really bad. It went downhill from there. So I was at school. I'm like, I'm going to run away again. And then this is when you planned it out. Yeah, this is where I planned it out.

I'm like, I'm going to run away again. I'm almost 17. like I think it was like two or three months from being 17. I was like, I can emancipate myself and I'll just take care of myself. No biggie. So I went to school that day and I thought, okay, what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to school and I'm going to miss the bus because there was a bus that like started bringing people back down to St. Louis.

I'm going to miss it. And then I'll just go home with tomorrow. She knew the plan. Well, lo and behold that day, somebody from St. Louis decided to drive the big old red van up to pick us all up. And I was like, well, this sucks. Now he plans gone. So I get in the van. We go to Meyer. And that's when I was like, see you. We, we, they had us all in the line. And they were getting the groceries and I just booked him. I went to tomorrow's house. And then we went to her aunt's house, her aunt Tara's house. And this is where the story turns again.

I ended up moving in with my aunt and uncle. Emily's sister. Okay. Emily's sister Kristen and her husband, Joel, who's younger. So Joel and Kristen, they, I had known them even when I lived in the children's home in Arizona. They had come out to visit. They weren't married yet. They were in college.

They'd come out to visit and they were equally as fun. And. So these two are related to Kent and Emily, right? Yes. So Joel and Kristen, Kristen is Emily's biological sister. Younger biological sister. So when Kent and Emily dumped me, Kristen had a little bit of a hard time with that. She didn't understand what was going on, but she really involved herself in my life.

She would write letters and she would even bring me on home visits. So this was even like after the fact, like throughout up until. Up until running away. So I had gotten close with Joel. and Kristen. I had gotten close with them. I had never lived with them before, but I had gotten to know them really well through, like I said, they would come and take me for a weekend and we'd go to like Harlem Globetrotters game or just they really took the time to like get to know who I was. They had known me before because like when Kent and Emily were adopting me, obviously we'd spend Christmas together

or holidays, like I would see them around. So it's not like I had no idea or they had no idea who I was. So they, yeah, they inserted themselves in my life pretty young age. And then they just kept a consistency. And when I say they, I mainly mean Kristen. She did a really good job at like sending me cards. And she was, I don't know if I had to put a finger on it. Who's more creative and who's more like crafty? I don't know. They both are. They're both so talented. But anyway, she was just really thoughtful and she would send me notes and just. So did they know that you ran away that second time? Yes.

So when I ran away the first time, the reason, another reason why I ended up being down in St. Louis is so Tamara, my best friend, her dad was a state trooper. And that's whose house I ran away to because I felt safe there. Joel is also a state trooper for Michigan. So they had that connection and they were able to be like, hey, Joel, you know, this is what's happening to Jessica. And, you know, Joel and Kristen just took matters into their. own hand. They were like, we don't want her living in that house again. We've heard what you're doing. No. So they put me down in the St. Louis house. And then after the whole explicit letter, they were like, I was like, I remember thinking, like, why don't you guys just let me live

with you? Like, you guys know me enough. Yeah. And so that's what they did. After like a few weeks of living down in St. Louis, they said, we're just going to adopt you. And I think the children's home finally got so sick and tired of like the where do we what do we do with this this case because that's the other thing like I don't know how that worked you know whether they got any money from my settlement for taking care of me or I think they got some state funding for me because I ended up in the end I ended up being a ward of the state that the Baptist Children's Home took care of And then Bill was the guardian of. So he was the decision maker.

It's all really confusing to me. But anyways, they, Joel and Kristen were like, hey, we want to take care of her. We wanted to move in. And it was during the middle. There was only like a few months left to school too. That was the other thing. But I think it had got to the breaking point for everyone involved. That was like, you know, they finally like actually thought, let's do what's best for Jessica.

So I moved in with Joel and Kristen. And it was awesome. Like, it was so cool because I had grown to really love them both because they made the effort to come and visit me even though they had no responsibility to. They could have just easily said, oh, my sister sucks and she, you know, dumped you off. So, you know, we don't have to deal with this either. Yeah, good luck. Yeah. But they didn't.

And they like really did. a lot of time and effort into me. And so I was really excited. Kristen had also just had a baby. She had her first baby who was only like less than a year old, I believe. So it was just perfect. Oh yeah, she was turning one in May because her, their baby's daughter was three days before mine.

So yeah, I moved in with them. And it was a little bit different because of, I got along with both her angel equally. Like I really liked both of them equally, but for different reasons, which is a little bit different because normally the male figure, I didn't really have. I didn't not have a relationship. Wayne would have been the first person that I was like, I like this guy. He's really cool.

Besides Kent. But again, like even with Kent, I didn't, wasn't like super close to. I don't have too many memories of him. But so I moved in with Joel and Kristen and they let me finish my school like home school, basically. And then she immediately put me on like lifeguard classes to become a lifeguard at the local pool just to have something for me to do. I didn't have my driver's license or anything.

You know, I was just about to turn 17. So yeah, everything went really smoothly. I turned 17. things were going really good. It was the same thing. You know, they both were like, you know, we're so happy to have you part of our family. Like, you know, we're never going to get rid of you. And the same spiel.

Again, I don't know what happened. Kristen started to act different. Like, she just started to be withdrawn. And like I could tell, like, I was just annoying to her, which was surprising because, like, I didn't get bad grades. I'd gotten to the point in my life where I just didn't lie about anything, like, annoyingly didn't lie. Like, you know how when you tell somebody something, even though it's true, they are like, I'm telling the truth?

Like, that sounds crazy. Like, because I had gotten so used to, what's the point of lying? Like, I'm going to get in trouble either way. I'm just going to tell the truth. Well, Kristen thought everything I did and said was a lie. It got to that point. And I'm like, I have no reason to lie. Like, it didn't matter what I did.

Everything was twisted. Like, things, things were great. Like, I just, I'm still, like, so confused how it happened. Things were great. And then all of a sudden, she used to keep a diary to her diary to God. She left it out on the, like, TV night stand, TV, TV stand or whatever. Open. Coincidence?

No. Yeah. Dear God. I have no desire to love this child. Please help me. They're a burden. I don't remember. The rest was basically just going into like why I like, I can't do this anymore.

I don't know what I was thinking. And yeah, I can put myself in her shoes. 17. Man, man, if I did that, that would be difficult. Because I think I'm around the age when she, I'm around the age right now when they decided to adopt me. So could I do it? Yeah. Yeah, I definitely could.

But I'm just trying to like give some lenience. Like I always try. That's one thing that even as a kid, I've always tried to put myself in somebody else's shoe to understand where they're coming from. And like not always go to the first negative thing. Yeah. So anyways, she left that out for me to find. Oh, I found it. and I it was over for me like it's just I'm never going to get it off I'll never have a mom and dad

I I really broke at that point because I was debating on whether even I wanted to say this because it's just there's very few people who can even understand what I'm about to say but growing up I knew what it was like to just not be loved by anyone. Like, I just, it's weird because it's like, it's a, it's a very empty feeling, but like, even as a kid, like, I knew, I knew there was not a single person in the entire world that loved me. Like, if I had died as a child, nothing. And that's a weird thing to know. And I say that, like, I'm sure there were a couple, like, I did have a couple house parents that, like, I love that girl.

She's so cool. But, like, truly love, like unconditionally. Right. I had not to keep handing you off to other people. Yeah. And the problem was there's not like aunts and uncles and grandparents that are out there like, oh, sorry your parents, you know, made these decisions, but we still love you. There was nothing.

Every time I was moved, it was like those families, once these parents made that decision, so did the grandparents and the aunts and uncles. I mean, except for Joel and Kristen, I should say, at that time. But, you know, it had got to the point, you know, I, I found a Christmas list. Literally the first thing on it is mom and dad. I think I was seven or eight. Like, just, that's why I say, like, it doesn't even, like, I'm looking at a different person because I would never write. That's horrible.

Like, that is so sad. I feel like that I feel for that little girl. When I found that from her, especially because I idolized her. I had gotten to the point where I am. You know, I idolized her like I did with. Emily. Like, I loved Emily. No, Kristen was a whole new. She was on the top of my, like, order, pecking order. You know, it went Kristen, Emily, Jessica, you know, so it's just, it was very hard to see that. And I didn't know what to do. I stayed really quiet about it. I tried everything.

I tried cutting my wrists. I tried to like write extra my diary. I tried to pray extra. I'm going to focus on my relationship with Christ, which that did help. That really, I mean, that literally is the only thing that saved me. But like it was really difficult. Luckily, we were in the day of age where social media and stuff wasn't prevalent in our lives.

And I would have never considered suicide because it wasn't something that was, I didn't know about it. But if I had, that probably would have been the route. I just, that's when I finally was like, what is wrong with me? Like, how? I'm so angry. I'm so hurt. I'm so, oh.

Like, even now, like, I can just feel that feeling that I felt done. Like, what do I have to do? Why cannot? I just don't get why I can't be loved. And it's just, she did it on purpose too. And she knew I idolized her. I've done everything you wanted. Gosh, that was just, it sucked.

So I'm like trying to reset, like, okay, this is it. I'm 17 years old. What can I do to reset? I can make them love me again. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do it. I didn't. But I tried every little thing.

Shortly after that, I noticed when I would get home from school. Like, I started, that's when I started attaching myself to Joel. Because Joel still liked me. Like, he still wanted to, like, hang with me. And, like, he didn't treat me any different. And I remember when I told him, like, eventually a couple days later, like, hey, I found this. He was like, what? Like.

So do you think he knew? Yeah, I do. I think he knew. Because shortly after that, Kristen, like, made this, like, huge deal. Like, I'm just as hurt. And I'm going to go to a hotel for a couple days and really think about and evaluate my life. And maybe she did. Maybe she was like, what am I doing with myself?

This is somebody's life I'm messing with. Like, I'm sure she did because she did love me. And maybe she was just going through, like, confusion. I don't know. She got back. Things were okay for a little bit. And then just straight back. You know, I think it was hard, you know, dealing with a newborn.

I'm sure there's all sorts of things. And, you know, a lot of things were new for me. Like getting my driver's license. And she took on a lot of responsibility for that. And then really honing it on my education and like, hey, you know, make sure you're doing this. And I know it was stressful. I know it was a total, like, I can't. I know what it's like.

I've done it before, taking in a teenager and just totally throws your whole world upside down. So I wouldn't have done what she did, though. It's evil. Yeah. Now as an adult, like I feel that. That's why I get so angry when I think about it because like you knew what you did. You set the stage for that to happen so that I would know so that I don't know what she was thinking. Like maybe I would be more what she wanted me to be, or maybe I would decide to move out because I know before that I had already been talking about emancipating.

But what if you would have ended your life because of that? You know what I mean? Like, and I think that, I mean, to write something and leave it out for a child to see who's already experienced such instability in their life. Like you don't know what someone's going to do. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. It was very hard.

So after Kristen went back downhill and I had already gotten to the point where I called them mom and dad. Like I told everybody, this is my mom. I was like, it was the first time I had called somebody mom in a very long time. I think the last person I called mom was Lydia. So it had been, you know, 10 years. Yeah. But I was so proud. like, this is my mom and dad.

Like, I have a mom and dad. Like, it was almost like, you know, just couldn't stop saying it. I could not, like, get over. Like, I have a mom. I'm so cool. Like, I know you have a mom, but mine's better. Like, so after that, I really started clinging more to Joel because he didn't treat me different.

He didn't act different. He did stay Switzerland a lot. But he was just comfortable. And he didn't make me feel like I was a. problem like she did so after a little bit of time with Joel like being comfortable around him I started noticing things were really off like I'd come home from school and he'd give me a hug and he'd have an erection as he hugged me and I didn't really know it at the time like what was happening. Like I didn't realize how or why. I mean, I had dated Larry and I was still like a virgin though.

Like I just, I had done things with him and I, it was different. It was just so different. He was supposed to be my dad. So when I experienced that the first time, it was after all this. And I was like, okay, that's disgusting. And then it happened again and again and again and again and again and again and again. And I quickly realized how negative my relationship with Kristen was going, but I was going to save it at any cost. And that meant me being okay with the inappropriate hugs, maybe encouraging them. Not maybe.

I did. I knew what was happening. And I let it because I was crazy. I literally thought like, okay, if I let him do inappropriate things to me, then I'll still be in the family. I'll still have a mom and dad. Searching for approval. Yeah. I didn't want to be alone.

I knew that it was too late for me to like ever get a mom and dad again. And so I was ready to sell my soul to the devil to keep that family. and I did. I mean, I didn't, but, like, I feel like I did. The hugs ended up turning into inappropriate touching or looking at night when Kristen was in bed. And remember the first time that happened, and he, like, he thought I was asleep. And surprise, I'm not. And he was like, oh my gosh, let's go tell your mom right away.

Let's get this out in the open. This can't happen. But, oh, it makes me so mad because I wonder if he knew what he was doing. He knew already that I was, he knew why I was okay with it. He knew that I was okay with it because I did not want to lose my family. So by him asking me, let's go tell your mom, like, if I tell her, I'm going to lose her. If I don't tell her, then I just have to sell myself to you.

But I'll stop a family. That was worth it to me. It got very inappropriate. I never had sex with him. But the gross part is I probably would have, even though I was still a virgin. I probably would have. Did you have any sense of fear about the situation or what was going on or it was just mainly? My fear was losing my family.

My fear was, I'm not going to have a mom and dad and I'll never have a mom and dad. And I have worked my whole life waiting for this moment and I'm not giving it up. I still genuinely believe that I could fix things. How long did that go on for? About nine months. Okay. And you were 17? 17.

Yep. Yep. So you got a Michigan State Trooper and a child. And it's, it's, it's funny because I, I think to my mentality at that age, where I knew it was wrong, but I was going to justify it in any way possible. And, you know, like, even after like the guilt that I felt like, oh, you're such a slot. Like, you are so gross. Like, I just felt disgusted with myself for being willing and not only being willing, but engaging in inappropriate acts because I knew that's what he wanted. Do you think she knew at all or had any like idea or speculation?

I think she had an idea. Yeah. She definitely had a suspicion that something was happening. But I think she thought maybe he was having an affair, not necessarily like being inappropriate with me. Yeah. As an adult now I look back. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like that that was a child.

not only because I had this flight or die mentality where I would have given anything, but he knew that. He knew I would have compromised myself to the fullest. And it would have gotten to that point, no doubt about it. It ended. I had touched him inappropriately because I had touched him inappropriately because I had thought that was what he was. I mean, he was, he was wanting. That's what he wanted. I can't remember if I freaked out and told her or he freaked out and told her. Something happened where she found out. I

cannot for the life. I have no idea. It just went that night over. Like, she knew that there was an inappropriate relationship happening. I legit thought, she sat me down and I told her, I legit, Even at that time, I was like, no, it was me. I instigated a lot of this, which I can't even believe that. Like, I did. But am I, I'm 17. Hello. I literally, I don't know.

I knew what I was doing. I did. But as an adult, I just know the position that I was in to make that choice. She sat me down and we went through everything, every detail. She wanted to know everything. And I had, like I said, I had already gotten to the point where I was like, I don't need to lie about nothing. Like I told her everything. And maybe it was too brutally honest.

Maybe it was too much for her to handle. I spilled everything. How long it's been happening. What's happening? How it's happening. What's going on when it's happening? Did you tell her that you found her journal or no? She knew that.

She knew that I found her journal way probably. That's why she went to the hotel to like. Ah, okay, got it. Yeah. That's why I said it was super manipulative because it's like you left it out and then you knew that I would come to you and tell. She knew I would. I'm not that I will tell you everything.

Like so she knew. But yeah, so I told her everything that was going on with Joel and she was like, don't you worry about it. Like I'm keeping you forever. Like I'm not going to stay with somebody like that. Like even if even if you're even if you're saying. is true. Like she was a rational adult. Like even if you have a 17-year-old that comes

to you and says yes, I was inappropriate with your husband, it does not matter. That is a child. And especially given the background of that child, that's a child. Like I can look, I can step out of that and see,

oh my gosh, just like she did. You know, at first Kristen was like, no, he's wrong, disgusting, terrible person. So I'm there for a couple days and she's like, okay, I'm going to have you go stay with grandma and grandpa because I need to talk this out with Joel. She hadn't talked to him for like four or five days. She was devastated. Rightly so. I have no idea what Joel told her, but that was the last time I was ever

in that house. He, I mean, I know a little bit. He basically said that I initiated everything and that, you know, I didn't really want to, but like, you know, I forced myself onto him and and, you know, I just was just trying to, oh, that's what it was. I was trying to steal his family. Like, I wanted her two kids and, maybe she was pregnant. Anyways, I wanted that. I'm like, okay, anybody who knew me at that time knew I never wanted kids. Like, I didn't want kids even up until I had my own.

Like, I did not ever want kids. So I just find that funny. But whatever, whatever happened, she chose him. and that was super hard. I was still 17. I was a junior in high school. Oh, no. I might have been, I might have, I might have just turned 18 at.

Oh, I had just turned 18 when all this was going down. Like literally just turned 18. They had me live at my grandparents' house. My grandparents were gone, but I still, they had rules for me. You still have to be up at this time. You still have to, your curfew is this. You have to. go to school, do all these things.

And obviously, you can't have a boyfriend, which I didn't at the time. John David, but I don't really, he was a boyfriend. He was just my long, far away boyfriend. And yeah, so she kicked me out. Joel moved back in right away. And they started marriage counseling and, like, they started healing. Oh, and he admitted that he said, He's a porn addict.

And, you know, the reason why he's made some of these just, that's, like, everything was a crutch. Yeah. Like, everything was just such a lame excuse as to why he made the decisions he did. And nobody put together the fact that you molested a 17-year-old girl. And you are a state trooper. You are the law. You are supposed to be the example. You're supposed to be above it all.

what makes you think that you are? Like, I just, oh, I hate him. I ended up telling people, like, kind of. I told my art teacher, Mr. Mason, I said, hey, you know, because he was also a, I think he worked for the county sheriff or something. Like, I got to tell somebody, you know, like, what's going on? People are wondering why I started skipping school. I was never in school. I started just, my life was just, like, straight downhill. I lost everything. I was a long. I had no money. I was living in this house that was basically abandoned because I don't even know where the parents were. It was just crazy.

At one point, I was living in the back of my Chevy Blazer for a couple weeks. And I'm 17, 18. I don't know. I'm 18 years old. I'm working two jobs. I worked at a restaurant and I worked for a landscaping company. I finished school. I make it to summer.

They want me to come to the church, to talk to the pastor. Oh, no. I don't have forgot. They had, before they sent me to my grandparents' house, they had me live in a house with Mrs. McLean, Mrs. McLean. They had me live with her at her house. She was a member of our church. And she was an older lady.

And she had a daughter who was in her mid-20s. So I'm moving in the house. All this is happening with Joel and Kristen. Like stuff is hitting the fan. He's lying about everything. I'm a terrible person because I broke up this marriage and I'm a whore. That's when I finally got sick of it. I was like, okay, if I'm going to be a whore, watch me.

I got a boyfriend. I wasn't a wharf. I just kind of felt like that because my mentality. he was like, you know, I grew up in a, like, no sex before marriage and I really wanted to hold to that, like no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing. I got a boyfriend, Lauren. He claimed to be this great Christian man. That's why I really liked him. I lost my virginity to him. And after he took that, he was so abusive and so horrible. That was that summer. I was still living in this house. Well, Mrs. McLean, she found out McCain, Mrs. McCain.

She found out that I had a boyfriend and he had picked me up from her house. She rushed home and she was like, oh my gosh, how dare you bring a boy into this house? I'm like, he's in your driveway. I'm going to school. Like, geez. Come to find out her precious daughter was pregnant and she wasn't married. And I was like, hmm, calling the kettle black. Like, get out.

And they kept it a secret. And they thought I didn't know. And I'm like, I know. Then come to find out her previous boyfriend is the guy I'm dating. That's why Mrs. McCain came home and she was very angry. So anyways, I'm dating this guy. Joel and Kristen have all these rules for me. I go get ice cream late at night.

And they see me with Lauren and they're like, you're at a grocery store? It's 10. It's past your car for you. You're super grounded now. Like, whatever that means. I don't even live with you. And yet you have all these rules for me? No, I don't think so. I'm 18 now. You clearly hate me. You don't love me. And no, I'm just not doing it. And then I start dating Warren. I'm moving to the grandparents' house. And then I end up, while I'm at their house, I end up having while I'm working. Oh, so by this time I am a senior in high school. I am. I only had like a couple credits left.

So I'm also taking college credits. So I'm in college. I think it was taking 13 credits. And I am working two jobs, the landscape company and the restaurant. And while I'm at the restaurant, one of the local doctors from town was there with her husband. And I had met her before because during this whole thing with Joel and Kristen, Kristen set up an appointment for me to go see the doctor to get a pap smear and check to see if I had like STDs and whatever because she wanted to know if like and and if I was a virgin. And I just thought that was crazy.

I remember showing up and being like I told this doctor. I'm like because she was she was just really intuitive. She she was like is something wrong? I'm like I broke down. I'm like, you know, I can't do this. Like, I've never even slept with anybody. Like, this is crazy and blah, blah, blah. I don't want to do it.

She's like, if you don't feel comfortable doing this, I'm not going to. So she ended up just putting in, like, saline or something. And she's like, we'll just send this out. And I'm like, so I thank you so much. Anyways, she was super sweet. She had also come over one time when she had first moved into town because I had cut my thumb open and I needed a couple stitches. She came to the house.

So I had met her a couple times. And then I also knew her. her, this doctor's husband, who was also a doctor in town, because he played on the intermaral basketball team that me and Joel played on. So I had met him a couple times as well. So I ended up going to work that day and I see this doctor. Her name is Chrissy, Chrissy, Chrissy Whitaker and her husband Chad, Chrissy and Chad. They're sitting in a booth. I think they're like with other people from work and they're having dinner.

And she sees me and she had remembered the previous encounter with, you know, the pap smear and stuff. She pulls me aside and she's like, how are you? I've been really thinking about you. And I'm like, you know, honestly that, oh, I was living in my car. I was like, actually I'm living in my car right now. And I'm just like really frustrated and, you know, things aren't going good. And she was like, you know, we have this really big house. We have a really big house and there's tons of extra rooms.

You know, if you wanted to, you could move in. And I remember immediately being like, yes, like a shower, like warmth, a bed. Yes. So granted, I'm still in high school because I remember I had gotten held back in third grade. So I did. I moved in with them. and things were great. They were awesome.

Like super nice, super helpful. She was so sweet. Like, oh, one time Kristen decided that it would be smart to leave a book on my doorstep. She found out I moved in with these doctors and she was furious. Like, oh, how dare somebody else help her? She's probably going to ruin their lives too. Anyway, she was just negative. Like, everything was just toxic.

So I move in. Kristen comes and leaves the giving tree. The book The Giving Tree by Shell Silverstein on the front door with a note in it that says, this is how I felt taking care of you. I hope you can understand. I'm like, well, Chrissy, she had choice words. And she was like, no, don't even read that. We burned it that night.

And the next day, she had. a shell Silverstein book. I think it was like the big O. And it was like just the sweetest thing. She's like, you know, you are a brave independent woman. You know, you're growing and, you know, you're going to go places and you can use these experiences. And it was just such a sweet letter, like from a complete stranger. Like, because I barely known this lady like two days I had moved in. That set her on fire. She's like, I'm going to get this girl everything. She took me prom dress shopping. She just was there for me. She's like, oh, you have an old. her boyfriend. We were a little bit different. She was like definitely just sleep with him. Get out over with.

Like I'm like, ah, no. Like, I'm saving myself. Like, you know, like it was just she was more wild and fun and like very experienced in life. I remember thinking like, wow, you're so worldly. Like I've been so sheltered. And then Chad, he was just like, he and just your every day. like hey what's up like just chill he he he was fun he taught me how to play board games he taught me settlers the kattan and like he was very competitive while he played on the basketball team and so we it was crazy because even after joel and christin kicked me out i still played on that basketball team and chad would be like you're going to show up i'm like you're you're right i am going to show up and um they were just great they were younger i would say they were in there they didn't have kids yet they had tried um they

were in their mid-30s. But like I said, they were both doctors, OBGYNs in town. And it was great. It was a good year. That summer, okay, so I had graduated high school. And no joke, Chad was there for my graduation. Like, he had taken off work, like, to make sure that he was there. He was there for my gymnastics meets.

He was there for any sports. Like, I remember thinking, like, I don't even know you. Like I literally had no, I didn't know him. But he was always there. He just wanted to make sure that somebody was there. And I, like, even looking back, I'm like, so they were great. That summer, after I graduated, I was bridge jumping with my friends.

And Chrissy had got me my first cell phone. And I thought it was so cool. And anyway, she called me. She's like, I need you to come home right now. I was like, I knew they were going to ask me to leave. Like, I was just so like, I just knew it was coming. So anyways, I get there. They sent me down.

It is serious. The sun had gone down. Like, I remember it was like it was yesterday. I was sitting there like this. And he was contemplating, like, what to say. And I was like, it's fine. I get it. Whatever.

Chrissy and I were talking. and we would like to adopt you. I don't believe it. I thought my chance was gone. But it wasn't like here. I was sitting here like ready. I already knew like they were going to ask me to move out. And they had ever, they didn't.

There was no relationship. I mean, other than like a superficial, like barely getting to know each other. You know, we've been talking and we would like you to be part of our family. What do you think about that? I just remember being like. I know. Me? Yes.

I was so ecstatic. Like, you don't even know me, but you're taking a big risk. Like, I just never thought I would experience it again. And so I was so happy. And, uh, yeah. They were there. They were there for my wedding. Um, they just immediately.

became my parents. When I went to college, you know, like, they helped move me in and they made, Chad made special furniture for me and like just, they helped me financially sometimes. They, they were all in. Like, even to this day, I think, I'm like, how did that happen? How did I get so lucky? And, you know, Chrissy and I, every once in a while, we'd have a little bump. But most of the time, you know, she was so like, it's okay.

You know, things happen. we'll get over it, we'll work through it. And I remember thinking like, wow, how come nobody else did this? Like, that's crazy. She loved me unconditionally. And it was great. I ended up going to college and then I got married and then they got divorced. And that was weird for me. It was good because they were friends, but it wasn't healthy. They ended up having a couple of kids. It didn't end well. Chrissy struggled with a lot of issues from her childhood, a lot of trauma. And so it was very hard on her.

She felt very alone. She made some pretty poor decisions during her medical tenure. She was writing scripts for herself, having other people. She was writing scripts to other people for them to fill. for her, for Adderall and stuff like that. She had a lot of addictions, but mostly she was really depressed. It was something that I truly never understood. I had never, all the trauma that I went through, I never experienced depression because even through everything, I always told myself like, girl, you're either going to like get through it or you're not so you can choose. This is your destiny.

Do you want to wallow in your own misery or do you want to get out and go do stuff? And so it was very hard concept for me to see her like just get swallowed she wouldn't get out of bet she like she stopped being the doctor that everybody loved she was the one that like you know the craziest calls she would help all the Amish people and she she just loved serving other people so my they my parents that's weird saying that um they got divorced and uh i cannot believe i just said that it's It's really weird to say that. But they, yeah, they got divorced. And it's funny because I always refer to them as my mom and dad, but I've never called them

mom and dad, even though, like, even Chrissy when she would call or write letters, it was always love mom. Even Chad, like when I had, you know, my child, you know, such a proud dad. So it's funny because we would always refer to each other as daughter, dad, mom. but I never actually called them mom and dad. But I did refer to them as my parents because they weren't. So, yeah, after they got divorced, Chrissy was extremely depressed, made really poor decisions. She ended up going to jail for the prescription fraud.

She lost her medical license. She lost everything, honestly. So she was there for a year. And honestly, during that year, like, I hate myself for this. But like I was going through my own like growing up and I was so mad that she made that decision. Like she had already struggled and she had already been caught another time and like she got a slap on the wrist. Like hey, don't do it again. Like you have no idea how severe the consequences are going to be like you'd think you'd learn.

But she did. And that's honestly, that's what addiction is. So she didn't learn. She messed up again. She ended up in jail. Well, even after she got out of jail, she was given the opportunity to. you know, like earn custody for her kids, not full custody, but partial custody. And she just kept making mistakes, you know, bad, bad choices. And Chad and I ended up getting really close

during that time because we both had heartache from this. We were both like, man, I just wish, like she would choose differently. And then he was going through his own thing because my mom actually ended up, Chrissy ended up cheating on him. And so it was like a thing and, you know, that added to the divorce. And he's like, man, I just, I just want somebody for me. So he would come to me like a lot with his problems. And we ended up just kind of like, we could go to each other with our problems. We told each other everything. We got that was the closest we ever got like during that divorce time. Like he ended up, he dated here and there. He ended up finding a new girlfriend, Amy and things were good. He really liked her. She had been in a few relationships. I should have

known it was a red flag, but she had already been married two or three times. This was her third or fourth husband. Anyways, she got together with Chad and he knew that I'm not afraid to like ask questions or like bold. He's like, hey, you know, I'm just wondering a couple of these things. He had me ask her like some interview questions basically like, so tell me about yourself. First time I met her and she was like I felt like it was an interrogation and blah, blah, I'm like, I was nice about it. She did not like that. She immediately hated me.

Well, she hated any part that was left over from his previous marriage. She, when I say vile, just a disgusting. person inside and out just a disgusting person she put so much of a wedge between me and chat she could not handle that he had an older daughter she could not handle that we were close she could not handle that i still got along and agreed with chrissey my mom there was just so much that she like everything about me she hated um so much to the point where she had her own daughter who was a couple years a little bit younger than me. And we were taking Christmas photos one year. And she wanted me and J.D., my husband, and my son to be out of it, just her kids and Chad and Chrissy's two kids.

But not me because I was adopted into it. And I remember being very, very angry. Like, I know what you're doing. And she ended up, the daughter came to me, the older daughter. And she was like, oh, don't worry. My mom doesn't even let me have pictures. Like, before I got married, she wouldn't even let, even though we were engaged, she wouldn't let my fiance be in the photo. I'm like, I'm not marrying.

I am the family. I was here before all y'all. Like, I was the first. Like, are you kidding me? But anyway, so it just went downhill from there. She drove such a wedge, basically, she put, she made it where he had to choose between her or me, which I thought was disgusting. Like, why would you do that? Like, ew. So one summer, every summer we used to go to Epworth. We have a, our family has a late cottage and I wasn't allowed to stay in the house that everybody else in my family stayed with. I stay with grandparents, which is fine. Good. There's no drama. Didn't matter. We did family photos again. And guess who was left out. And it was very hurtful. And then finally, Chad called me up that night to the main cottage. And he was just like, yeah, I don't know why you tell people that you're my daughter.

You've never been my daughter. He did this in front of everyone, my whole family, grandparents, kids. And I was like, what? Like, I literally can open your phone. What does it say? You know, like. And he disowned me in front of his entire family. and was like, yeah, no, you're just that girl that we were trying to help and like you always stuck

around and like I couldn't get rid of you basically. And I, that one hurt the worst. Out of every single parent, that one hurt the worst. To make it worse before that happened, right before that, earlier in the year, Chrissy took her life. She couldn't handle the depression. and just she's gone and that mess me up because it's like God finally brought somebody into my life that chose to stay forever and then she killed herself and it's like I never did feel like oh I

wasn't enough. I knew it was just so much more. Too much. And I never, like, understood what suicide was until then. I never understood how severe depression could be. But then when Chad thought, I'm going to disown my child in front of everybody. Like, after he, he himself was the one who made it so public. Like, you know, I remember the first time I met my grandparents or went to the summer cottage. And like, it wasn't like, oh, yeah, like awkward. It was like, oh, no, this is my daughter. We just, you know, she's part of our family now. Like, there's no question to ask grandparents, aunts and uncles. No, and it's like, oh, this is weird. Are you sure, Chad? No, it was like, everybody was so welcoming. And it was like, I've been there my whole life.

So when he decided to disown me, like, it had been over 10 years that he had been my dad. And I remember earlier that day, we were at like the local carnival. And I was telling someone, I was like, I remember things. I made a comment. I was talking. Maybe it was to John David. I was like, yeah, my dad was doing this. I was telling the story.

But they were, he was walking in front of me with Amy. And he heard me say, my dad. And he turned around and he's like, I was, I didn't get it. Obviously, I got it that night when he was like, yeah, you were never my child. Okay. That is the first time I experienced depression. I had never understood what it was like. to choose your relationships because my whole childhood people were in my life without me choosing

them. They just were there. And so I chose Chad back. Yes, he asked me to be part of his family, Chad and Chrissy, but I chose them back. I mean, I didn't really know them. I was taking a risk to, you know, like, I could be rejected again. Like, you know, I never saw it coming. I would have bet my life that he would have never rejected me. And I had finally started opening up to the fact that, no, like, these people left me. I'm never going to go anywhere because there was always that slight doubt. I remember, like, Chad would always tell me, you always think the worst. You always think that it's going to happen, that the ball's going to drop.

And it's not. He would remind me all the time and just constant affirmation. Like, no, we're here. We love you. And so when that happened, it, he should have. killed me. Like, even now I think about him. I'm like, he should have just killed me because I had never experienced depression before. I never, like, that was a whole new level of loss for me because I never, never saw it coming. And I had gotten to the point where I believed him. And not only

that, I had gotten to the point where I'd opened up to him in Chrissy. Like, I trusted them. I trusted them. And yeah, that was the only time in my life where I thought I am going to go kill myself now. I'm just going to get it over with. I have let somebody affect my life so much that I was willing to kill myself. And I think about that now. And I'm like, that's crazy that we as a human can let somebody affect our emotions so strongly that we're willing to do that. And that's, I know I was screwed because I just, I just went deeper and deeper. It got so bad about a month after he disowned me, he called me and apologized. He said, I don't know what I was thinking.

I'm so sorry, you know, I have to be careful. I'm teetering a fence right now with Amy. They weren't married yet. Or maybe they were. I don't know. But anyways, he's like, yeah. I'm like, the point is you shouldn't have to choose. Like, I'm not putting you in a position where I'm making you choose.

I'm not doing anything different. I'm the same person I've always been. She's the difference. If she's that type of person that's going to make you choose between your own daughter, then tells you what kind of person she is. She's which. Like, okay, you do you. But if you're happy, you do.

you do that, but I'm not going to stick around. Like, I was just so hurt. Well, it's funny because I had the day before he called me and apologized, which I had been waiting for. I had been waiting. Like, I know he's going to apologize. I know he's going to beg me to come back. And it's going to be fine.

We're going to work. We'll work through this and we'll heal. I had sent, I wrote a letter to Amy and I wrote one to Chad. My husband also wrote one to Amy. chat and let me tell you his were exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't say mine were like groveling you know like what do I have to do it'll be in your good graces um but so he apologized on the phone the next day and I was like well I got to tell you something I sent these letters you know if you want to just burn them do that no they didn't they read them so

I dug my grave with that one. But, yeah, that was the biggest loss I've ever experienced was Chad, which is funny because you'd think it'd be Chrissy. But she never rejected me. She loved me to the end, unconditionally to the end. But, yeah, Chad was the biggest heartbreak of my life. We don't talk. I tried a few times to mend things.

and he wasn't willing to do it. He was so annoying because you could tell like Amy would be hovering over like the phone call or like, you know, I'm going to ask my wife. It's a terrible relationship if you're in that type of relationship. But yeah, that one broke me. But on top of Chad disowning me, losing my mom, this is all within months of each other. I lost my dog who I had had. since I, like, I think I, like, graduated high school, whatever.

He was, like, my companion. He was, like, my best friend. On top of that, I had been married to my current husband. And we had been married, I don't know, 10 years, maybe 11 or 12 at the time. And I found out he cheated on me. And it was like all of this. at one time. So obviously my depression was like, I'm sure that also added to. I could not believe that my husband cheated on me because, I mean, we just have been best friends for years.

But maybe that was the issue. We had been more best friends. And we've talked about it since. Like, we, when we got married, it was more like we're getting married. And like, that's just how it's happening because we've known each other for so long. And like, I don't know why I'm marrying you, but I'm going to because like our background tells us like you go to school, you get married, you have kids. And like you have a traditional life. And that's just how it goes. And since you've known each other, oh, and you've also made out and like had sex. So you need to get married. So we did. We got married. And we were not in love. We loved each other. We had love for each other, but we were not in love. So it was a very rocky, miserable couple first years. Like, I hate this person. Like,

it was horrific. But I stuck it out because obviously you can't get divorced. So during this time, we're both, and we're both young. We got married right when we turned 21. Very, very young, still learning who we even are. We're both going through so much. Like, he's in the army. I'm dealing with a horrible past, like, trying to figure out, like, how do I just shove that aside to, like, move on with my life and become an adult. So just going through a lot. Anyways, so 12 years in, I have a five-year-old son, and I find out he says he's going to a conference for work.

I shouldn't know that. Like, come on. no he had been talking to somebody that we we had worked with before and he slept with her I could not believe that because I am the first person he ever slept with I'm his one and only his one and only and um that sucked I remember just being so angry and um hurt obviously but but it was it was crazy how I immediately went into it like yeah you suck what you did was horrible and horrific and like you should die but also how did I play a role in that I know a lot of people like can't do that but a marriage does take two people and not give

any any excuse to what he did but he didn't just say I'm going to go cheat. Most people don't. Most people, there's like a buildup of like, you know, either, you know, not being reciprocated or respect. You know, there's so many underlying issues in a relationship. And I already had so many issues building relationships. I had never had a successful relationship in my life except for a couple girlfriends. So that was also new to me. Marriage. Like that's, you're committing your life. And so immediately, instead of just playing the blame game and being like, you suck, you're a terrible person, you did this, you're disgusting. I was like, well, what have I done? Like what, not necessarily what I have done, but like, what could I have done differently? Like, what, how did I add not only to the cheating, but like to the failing of our relationship in general, because let's be real, it wasn't great. It was horrible during that time.

So it was that. People aren't going to believe me, but that was the best thing that ever happened to my life. is him cheating on me. We, it was like our eyes were open immediately. Like, what do you want in your life? You're an adult. You get to choose. No one's telling you what you have to do.

You can choose what you want from here on out. And I remember being like, I could walk away from this. But then I thought back to all my rejection as a child and like, no, I want to be committed. I want to be the person that commits. So we literally for like a week, I don't think we slept. We just talked about everything under the sun, our likes, dislikes, what irked us, what we felt our version of respect was what we felt. Anyways, just total deep dive into who we were as a person and our mentality.

And I wanted to save our marriage. And he didn't at first because he was still in the, oh, I got this. I have this new girl and she's perfect in every way and the grass is always greener. Hello. It took a while for him to realize, you know, I've got, I've got something great here. And, yeah, once he was on board too, yeah, I have, he's the best. I mean, you saw him. I love him so much.

So we healed from that. And, yeah, I have a 10-year-old now. My life's great. Like, I've never been so happy with my life than I am in the position I am right now, which is crazy considering I don't have any family. That's the only hard part. I have my brothers from the children's home and I'm my sister. You've your own family now that you created. Yes. We created our own.

So, yeah, all that to say, like, yes, I had a ton of trauma in my life and I have horrific PTSD. but it's funny because, you know, a lot of people say post-traumatic disorder, but like, I don't think of it as that. I think of it as like, it's a post-traumatic decision. And I'm going to decide that I'm not going to let that affect me. I'm going to decide that I'm going to use this to better myself. I learned from that experience. I learned from those heartaches. I have built an amazing relationship with my husband and child. Like, it's literally, I can't even believe that my life is my life. It's everything I dreamed of as a kid. And I have amazing in-laws. That's awesome too. His parents are, they're my mom and dad. I call them mom and dad,

actually. So I am really grateful for the life that God has given me. I never knew how God was going to use my life. And, you know, that's why I reached out to you to begin with, because as a child, I'm not going to lie, it was really annoying. everybody would be like don't worry little girl god's going to use your life in some way god's going to use your story and then i'm like okay well i'm like 40 so god let's do this um like you like not only for yourself because i think it probably took you some time and healing to get to a point of realizing that it was never you or your fault you know and you have never not been enough like you're always enough and i think that your story whether

it's other kids or adults now that, you know, even if they did go through the foster care system or had multiple different families or parents or projections throughout, everyone should know that it was never their fault. Yeah. Because even if you did something. Yes. You're still a child. You're still a child.

Like, and everyone deserves to feel unloved, especially as a child, is so heartbreaking and no child deserves that. And I think your story is so important to prove that and show that. And to know that no matter what, you're always enough. And even if you're not enough for someone else, you're enough for yourself. And that says nothing about you but about them. Yeah. You know, because like I said before, if you're going to make a decision to take a child in or to adopt a child, that's a huge commitment.

You know, you can't just or you shouldn't just give them up when things get hard. That's not the point of it. I will say on a last note about that. So my husband and I did go through the foster care system to become parents to adopt out. out of we wanted the kids that nobody else wanted and we did get placed with four four kids a family of four we were ecstatic um these kids went through really hard trauma and um all i can say is that the system did not work and um they were taken back and that was very devastating for us because we were ready to move forward and like make that huge commitment they were teenagers and uh that

was really hard for us we did that um two years ago now and then last year actually like right around this time we got placed with two kids and um i say i can relate in a way now because these two kids wow it it was very difficult uh there was a lot of aspects to it where that was the only time in my life where I understood how some people, that's why I said like with Janet and Bob Reed, like, okay, you know, maybe I wasn't, I did not do anything like these kids did. And like you said, they weren't bad, even though my son would be like, oh, what they did was bad. It was a bad decision, some of the things that they did, but like not bad enough where I'm like, well, I'm not going to love you anymore.

But I understood because there was no connection with these kids. And I think too, something can be where it's just not a good fit. Yes. And I do understand that. But I think that like your circumstances, it just seemed like it was just so like, never mind. Yeah. Because a lot of these people already knew who I was. The only people that I said really have a reason is Bob and Janet.

They went into it blind where they're. like, we're just going to try this out. Hopefully it works. But yeah, everybody else, they had already built that relationship and then chose to take me out of a situation to make it better, only to make it a million times worse. Like, you know, our time here is so short. And it's just like, man, the story with Joel and Kristen, like the abuse and trauma that I had from them is so much bigger. And all this to say, you think he ever suffered any consequences? No, he didn't. I did actually report it to the state police. He was investigated, but it was a he said, she said.

Yeah. So, but yeah, I, yeah, I am really good. I'm in a very healthy spot in my life. I have the best support system with friends and family. And, yeah, so. I think that's amazing. And like I said before, I feel like the beauty of it is not only are you able to share it now and turn it into something where you can reach other people and help people not feel alone

because you never know who's listening. I know. And if somebody feels like you did at certain points, like, you know, I'm done. Like this could be the saving grace for that person of like, well, let me just keep going because even if I feel like all the circumstances that you went through of like with these different families, that really was out of your control, especially. being so young, it's like you didn't have much higher control. But now it's like you're an adult and you're able to build your own family. And like I said, kind of give your family now and your son

the things that you couldn't have or didn't have. Yeah. And almost make sure that that doesn't repeat. Yes. You know, and sometimes like for different people's circumstances, that's part of their life and it's sad and it sucks and I'm sure there's people that have great experiences with adoption and things like that. But I always say it's so important to talk about the other side of those things because there's always people that can relate to that too. And to see you now and hear where you are now, I think that's so incredible. And it's such a statement about who you are in your strength because like I said, the amount of instability you had and kind of having to adapt to so many different environments and personalities and traumas.

Yeah. It's like it's not easy to do and then come to a place, even if it did take years and years, to get to a place where you're able to be where you are now and speak about it and go through it. Even though you said some of it might be like bits and pieces, you remember a lot. You know, like to be able to go through all of those different years and families, it's, that's a lot. And I feel like it's amazing to not let those parts of your life to define you.

to still have it as something to reflect on and be able to share now as like a story of, okay, well, this is, this was my childhood, but this is where I am now. Yeah. And you did an amazing job of telling it. It really felt like it kind of reminded me of like different chapters of a book. Like each year of your life was like a different chapter and a different, like really we were, we got to see into all these different people's families and lives in your life. And I think that's, you did a really, really.

good job of telling it. It really felt like a book. It did. Like, I feel like you should write a book. You know, but you should because I think that like, that's what it reminded me of. Like, right towards the end of it, I was like, I can see this being a book because it's something where you want to hear about how everybody did something so different, but it was how the result ended up the same. Yeah. And how it could have gone very differently for you. You know, and I... That's the crazy thing is. I do look back and I think, like, like, Like, well, and that's one thing, like the stereotype of where I grew up. Like I remember being told so many times, oh, you know, you have to be careful because

you're going to end up an alcoholic, a druggy, and pregnant at 18. And I think that's, I was told that enough than a, I didn't. I was like, no. Right. But it could have had different outcomes. And for a lot of people, it does. Yeah. And I think that that's what I'm saying.

It's like you don't know who's listening or even if somebody knows someone, you You know, and it's just to give that different perspective of what someone's going through, because not everybody wears their heart on their sleeves or expresses themselves. So just to have that different perspective and understanding of, you know, how different people grow up. Because you really, when people say, like, you really don't know what someone's been through, like, you have no idea. Everybody has something. Yeah. Every single person has something. Yeah. Somebody meeting you and talking to you, they wouldn't know all the different things you've went through. And they don't. That's the crazy thing is that, like, you're the first person that I have shared, like,

besides my husband that knows this is my life. Yeah. Like people just don't know because like I said, it doesn't define me. Yes, it helped me grow. But I did not let that deter me. I did not let that become my story. I let that be part of it. And yeah, I chose my own destiny.

Like I know that I could use my life as a crutch. I could say, yeah, I did all this. I did all these horrible things. I was part of this. And like, you know, that's why I'm going to be depressed the rest of my life. Or I'm going to let this trauma really affect. No, I'm not going to do that. I'm choosing my destiny.

I'm going to keep going in life. My life's going to be great. And screw that. Yeah. Look at you now. Yeah. You know, and to be, like I always said, to be able to talk about your life from start to finish and where you are now, that's not an easy thing to do.

It takes a lot of strength, a lot of vulnerability. and you did it and you did such a good job. Seriously, I can't say it enough. Like you, like, I feel like I was like invested the whole time. I'm just like, who's next? What's happening next? But no, seriously, and I can't thank you enough. And it means so much to me that you chose this platform to tell that story for the first time. And the fact that you haven't shared this to many people at all, like you said, besides your husband, that's incredible. And I'm very grateful that you wanted to come on here and do that. And you really should be proud of yourself.