We're All Insane - Living with a Serial Cheater

Episode Date: May 17, 2026

Ginny Priem thought she was finally living the life she had always dreamed of…a successful career, meaningful friendships, travel, love, and a growing family dynamic with a man she trusted deeply. But behind the scenes, everything was a lie. In this episode, Ginny shares the shocking story of discovering that her partner was secretly living a double life while living in her home and raising his children alongside her. What started as an intense whirlwind romance slowly unraveled into manipulation, gaslighting, deception, hidden relationships, and emotional abuse. On This Episode We Cover: → 00:00:00 - Introduction → 00:00:51 - How did after-work cocktails change her life? → 00:03:27 - What questions did she ask him when she finally confronted him? → 00:04:11 - What was her initial reaction to the news? → 00:05:09 - Why is it important to trust your intuition? → 00:06:22 - What was her life like before she met her ex-husband? → 00:11:05 - How long until she met his kids? → 00:13:07 - How quickly did he want to move in together? → 00:14:15 - What was their family dynamic like? → 00:18:12 - What was one of the beginning warning signs? → 00:23:43 - What excuses did he have for his behavior? → 00:25:36 - What was their sex life like? → 00:29:44 - What happened after they moved in together? → 00:34:11 - What did the security system footage show? → 00:36:41 - How to tell if you are not in a trusting relationship? → 00:37:44 - Why did he have so many pills? → 00:40:01 - What job did he have and how often did he travel? → 00:43:21 - What websites was he using to find partners? → 00:46:34 - How long should you wait to introduce someone to your kids? → 00:48:19 - What physical symptoms started showing up? → 00:49:45 - When did she finally start investigating? → 00:57:57 - What kind of love-bombing did she experience? → 00:59:26 - How did he respond to questioning the second time? → 01:02:29 - What was the timeline provided by the other women? → 01:07:43 - What happened after she kicked him out? → 01:10:35 - What was her conversation with his ex-wife like? → 01:15:04 - What kind of lies was he telling the other women? → 01:17:55 - How many women was he involved with? → 01:24:01 - How did her relationship with his children change? → 01:25:48 - What was his financial situation like? → 01:30:21 - How did the kids and new pets adjust? → 01:35:14 - Have they ever run into each other after they broke up? → 01:39:43 - When did she start writing her books? → 01:45:31 - How does trauma impact your life? → 01:50:20 - What is Kintsugi? → 01:55:58 - How empowering is it to share your story with others? Further Listening → My Boyfriend Trafficked Me Check Out Ginny:  Books: → You're My Favorite → I'm My Favorite: A Guided Journal for Your Path Forward → UNSUBSCRIBE: Why Letting Go is the Secret to Getting Ahead Websites: → www.ginnypriem.com → www.unsubscribeofficial.com Podcast: → UNSUBSCRIBE with Ginny Priem Socials: → Instagram → Facebook → LinkedIn → YouTube More We Are All Insane:  → OFFICIAL MERCH NOW AVAILABLE - code INSANE10 gets you 10% off for a limited time → Join We’re All Insane Mailing List for EXCLUSIVE Content + Discounts  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm Ginny Prime, and I'm a keynote speaker. It's so weird to say a bestselling author. It's amazing. It's truly, I was reading about it last night and I was like, that's incredible. Yeah, so it's fun. It's wild. I was actually texting with a friend last night. And she goes, oh, you're a TV star. I said, well, I don't know about that because she was watching my primetime segment. And she goes, yeah, but I bet 10 years ago, you didn't ever think you'd say you're a bestselling author. And I was like, you know, that's fair. So I'm getting comfortable with that. I also have a podcast and I'm a coach. But all of that is because of what I went through. And all of the work that I do today is it stems from that.

And so basically I was living kind of like my dream life. I had the big corporate job, the big title. I was traveling all the time. I worked in medical aesthetics in various leadership roles. And I was on a work trip. I traveled pretty much every week for work. And I was in Birmingham, Alabama. and I was flying home, and a friend wanted to urgently meet for cocktails when I landed that night.

And it was a Tuesday night. And she texted me. She's like, what time do you land? I said, 9.37 p.m. wine. She's like, can you meet for a cocktail? And I was like, in the middle of the night on a Tuesday. Right. I mean, like, I love a good cocktail. I love wine. But maybe with some like notice. Yeah. But at 10 p.m. like that where I need to like get in my car, race from the airport. So all day, I'm going, what is going on with her. Yeah. Like what is so big? Is everything okay? And I texted her that. I said, is everything okay? And she said, it will be. And I was like, oh, my gosh, like, does she have cancer? Is she getting divorced? Like, is her kids sick? What's going on? And I get there, and she's crying and has an empty drink. And I got another one on the way. I'm not sure if that was her

first. And she has a stack of papers in front of her. And I slide into the booth and I reach across the table and like put my hand on her arm and I'm like, I've been so worried about you all day. What is going on? And I'm in my mind, I'm going, how do I show up and like be a good supportive friend for whatever is clearly something major happening right now? And she said, it's not about me. It's about you. It's actually about Chad. My partner that was living at home, he was at home in my bed at that time. He and his kids were living with me. And she proceeds to, display this arrangement of evidence that he was basically living a double life. He was not who I thought he was at all. And yeah, I'm just sitting there processing it. So I go home and I confront him.

And so a lot of people will ask, well, like, what is the evidence, right? Like, was he just cheating? And I even hate when people say that, like, was he just cheating? Oh, cheating is bad, period. but the scale of what was happening underneath my own nose, which is wild, because I feel like I'm a pretty aware, you know, smart person, but it doesn't have anything to do with that when you find yourself in a situation like this. So I get in my car and I go home and I turn on all the lights. And this was weird. I actually love to tell this part because he, which I think this is just so creepy,

He loves to tell people that he doesn't wear underwear and that he sleeps naked. So I get home and he's in bed and the kids are downstairs and I just flip on the lights and I just start asking him questions. I was very strategic about how I asked the questions, though. I was very vague. And I just would ask him, well, how do you know this person? How do you know this person? Where were you then?

What were you doing at this time? But I didn't tell him who gave me the information. like very, very little because I wanted to see how much I could get out of him. But what was odd about when I came home was he was in bed fully clothed.

So I feel like he may have known the gig was up, you know, like something was going on. Quick question. When this was your best friend? A close friend, yeah. So when she told you it was about you and kind of broke the news

about all of this evidence, what was your initial feeling? My initial feeling, it's so weird. She actually kept saying this. She's like, how are you not falling apart right now? Like, how are you not sobbing uncontrollably? She's like, you're clearly in shock. Yeah. And part of me, I didn't want to believe it. I think that's the truth is I didn't want to believe it. Even when she gave me a date. So she had done her due diligence with some of the dates that had been shared with her when he was with other women while I was traveling. And I was like, no, we had just gotten back from Italy that night. And she goes, I went back and I looked at our texting and our schedules, and I'm pretty sure you were in Florida that night. Just double check. And I double checked. And it was like a gut punch. It was like, oh, yeah, no, I was in Florida that night. And in fact, that night, that was about a month before this. I had on that trip, I had a gut feeling. Like, this is one of the things, like, trusting your intuition, I ignored my intuition

this entire time. My intuition has never failed me. Right? Like, I can think of times where I, here's a really great example of how my intuition, like, was spot on. I was on a work trip in Las Vegas. And I had the sense I was being followed to my hotel room down the hallway. It was at the Bellagio, which they have security. So how this guy slipped by, I'm not sure. And I was all the way at the end of the hallway. And for whatever reason, I sensed I was being followed. I looked over my shoulder. He acknowledged me and said hi. And I said hi. And I was like, something is wrong. And I literally, for whatever reason, acted quick. I hadn't really been drinking. I think I had two glasses of champagne all day or something. Like, so I was sober. I was alert. And I looked down at my card, looked up at the

room. And I was like, oh, I'm on the wrong floor. Turned around, walked back past him and went down in the elevators and lost it on the security guys. I'm like, how did this guy get by? So it's like my intuition has never failed me until you start to ignore it. I think, too, it's hard when it comes to relationships because I think that sometimes you can ask yourself, is it my intuition or is it fear, you know, whether it's fear of commitment or fear of falling in love or whatever it may be. I think it's very hard to trust yourself sometimes in those moments, you know, and we always should. But I think it's easier to question it when it comes to a relationship or when there's very hard.

there's love involved. You almost become blind to it. Yeah. And I think you want to see the best in people. Yeah. Like I said, I didn't want it to be true. Right. And so, you know, go home, we talk. And maybe, actually, this is a good time to go all the way back to the beginning before, you know, we talk about what happened next. So, you know, before I met him, I was living my best life. I was traveling for work, traveling for fun. I had my two dogs, Emilio and Sadie, my little Pekingese, and they were just my little sidekick companions and maintaining really great friendships. And I think a lot of people, especially women, we can tend to want to find a relationship, seek love, like complete our lives. I really felt like my life was complete. I wasn't, you know, and I had been in relationships before. Actually,

I had been married very, very briefly. I always tell I'm like, I tried it. It wasn't for me. That's okay. Right. Nothing wrong with that. At least you got the experience. Yep, got it out of my system. And I was seriously so happy, like living such a great life. And I wasn't interested in necessarily. I was open to it, obviously, but not necessarily looking for it.

And I get introduced to Chad, as I call him, which, by the way, is not his real name. I changed the name not to protect him, but to protect the children. Got it. So just to be clear about that. And we are introduced, like it was kind of a casual encounter on a boat. And one of my best friends was in town that weekend. I actually had had a house. Did I have a housewarming party that weekend?

I think I did. I had a housewarming party. I had just moved into a new house. I was very excited. And so she was in town visiting. And we went out on this boat and he was there. And she kept on, like, nudging me all day. She's like, oh, my gosh, he is flirting with you so hard.

And I was like, eh, you know, like just kind of brushing it off. Like, eh, nah. And part of it was because. because my life was so good, but also because I knew he had two kids. And I just didn't want to go there. You know, I'd been there before. I dated guys with kids,

and I was just like, you know, it's just probably not the best suited for me. Yeah. And that was the first time you met him? Yes. Okay. So I then go on a magical vacation with one of my girlfriends to Greece.

Oh, that's amazing. And the entire time, I guess, he was pestering someone for my phone number. Okay. And they wouldn't give it to him. Wouldn't give it to him. and then finally somebody gave him my phone number and, you know, just like through mutual connections or whatever.

So I get, you know, then I start getting text messages from him. And then we ended up at a cabin. So this is like before we're even officially dating. We end up at a cabin for a weekend and spending time together. Just, you know, like you get to know people, right? And someone kept asking me like, oh, are you interested? Like, do you think, like, are you interested? And I was like, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I'm not sure. So it wasn't just you and him in a cabin. No. It was like a group of people. Got it. Small group, not like a huge group or anything.

So he asked me out and I was like, well, what's it going to hurt? You know, it's just a date. So we go out, we start dating. And even just our first date, very extravagant, like over the top, like the nicest restaurant in Minneapolis. And then a U-2 concert. And, you know, it's like... How do you top that? That's not a typical first date, right? So then it was every, and then it was literally like a part-time

job keeping up with the text messages. I mean, just showering me with compliments. And I mean, like, they're pretty justified. But, you know, in hindsight, it's like, oh, the love bombing was hardcore, right? I mean, it was just constant. And then literally like two weeks in or just like a few short weeks in, it was, I can't wait for you to meet my kids. And that took me back. Like in the moment, I remember that. And I was so taken back by it. He said that to me. We had, I think it was his birthday. And so we had, I had taken him on an overnight. Like, we had a little surprise party for him, because it was his 40th. And so we had a little surprise party for him. And then I got us a hotel room at the place where we had our first date. They had like a little B&B type of situation. And then the next

morning, I'm driving him home, and he was like, I can't wait for you to meet my kids. And I was like, we just started dating. So we had dinner plans that night. And I remember sitting across the table and I was like, okay, you mentioned meeting your kids. Like, what does their mom say about that? Because for me, I'm like, I don't have biological children. Yeah. But if someone was going to be hanging around my kids, I'd want to know who's spending all this time around my kids or who my kids are being introduced to. Like to me, it's not something that I would ever take lightly. And his response was, oh, we just trust each other. And I just thought that was so interesting. Yeah. And then even, you know, like then I did meet the kids and I was like, well, I should probably

meet their mom, right? Like same thing. Like I would want to, I would want to know and meet who's hanging around my kids. And so I gave all these options. I was like, I want it to be on her terms. Like, if she wants to get together for a glass of wine or a cup of coffee or just when I'm doing school pickup or drop off, because she was actually a teacher at one of the kids' schools. Okay. And, like, nothing. So then I, like, checked back in.

And he was like, oh, she just wants to meet at school. I was like, okay, that's fine. I respect that, right? Like, I learned later that he never even had that conversation with her. But he would have never wanted the two of them. of us to be in the same room, having a glass of wine or a cup of coffee. Right. To have any sort of conversation.

So things are going along. And how far in are we right now? I mean, early. Like at that point, we're just like a couple months in. Okay. And even in the early days, like in the first few weeks, like around that time when it was like I want you to meet my kids, he's like planning trips for us like six, 12 months out. And I even remember I was like, maybe we can talk about it when it gets a little closer, you know, type of thing.

I was like, I go, that's a long ways away. Did you ever say anything about living together? Very fast. But guess where we lived in my house? Yeah. So I think we're about six months in. So we spend the holidays together, right? Like as a family, we kind of become this instant family.

And so now it's like instead of stuff. stepping on the beach or into my stiletto heels, I'm stepping on Legos at home, which is fine. I loved it. Honestly, like, I loved every part about it. Like, I didn't realize how much joy I would get over, like, waking the kids up in the morning and getting them ready for school and dropping them off and packing lunches and snuggling on the couch on Friday nights, watching movies and eating popcorn. And, you know, pretty quick. They took to me very fast. I think it was the stability, the consistency that they were. experiencing on that side.

You know, they had that at their moms, but they never really had that since their divorce. And so it was the consistency, the stability, the routine, the someone showing up for them, you know, being there for them. And that family dynamic, too, I feel like. Yeah. I think they were craving that. Yeah. And so they, yeah, they really took to me.

We just loved each other. And so we met in like August. And then so fast forward to, you know, we spend the holidays together. And, you know, the kids already, they were like, you know, we play, we were playing like the game of life. Right. And they were like, oh, look, it's dad and Ginny and us. And will there be another baby? Right.

Like they're thinking of like this as a family as well. And they, you know, they called me, they call me be my. like bonus mama, still today, which is so fun. I actually wish I would have come up with a more clever name because, you know, they wanted to start having a special name for me pretty early. And he, Chad, was like, it can just be Jenny, you know, kind of thing, which was fine. And I was fine with that too. But I read Chelsea Handler's most recent book not that long ago.

And she dated a guy with kids and she's still in their lives, which I thought was super cool. but because the dad was never around, but they've always called him dad. They called her father, which I thought was just genius. I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. But they call me B, Mama. And they just were very comfortable at my house. So I converted my downstairs bedroom into a bedroom for them. So that was around Valentine's Day.

So we're whatever, six, eight months in now. Yeah. And right before that, I was coming home from a work trip. Actually, let me go back a little bit further. So in the first few months, there was a time where I had, I was at his apartment and I was getting ready to leave or whatever. And I don't know if I was, I was looking for like a phone charger or chapstick or something. So I opened the bedside table on my side of the bed.

and it was filled with sex toys. Huh. And like duplicates of several things. And that in itself, I don't think is bizarre, right? Like, do you, boo? Like, I don't care what people want to do in their bedroom, right? Like, whatever you're into. What was bizarre is we'd been dating for a few months at this point,

and he never brought anything like that. that up to me. And I found that really odd. Right. And so I asked him about it. At that same time, I started having like pain and discomfort, not like a UTI or anything like that. So I went to the doctor because I was like, something's wrong. Like, did I get something? And I went and like, I remember just like crying. Like the PA, he was so sweet. And he was like, we're just going to test you for everything. Like, I'm going to give you a pregnancy test. Like, is it possible you're pregnant? And I was like, yeah, it's possible. I mean, but, you know, I didn't think I could be. However, he was like, I can't, like, you have nothing. And I had texted Chad. I was like, can you please just like go

get tested for everything? And he was like, yeah, I did. I was like, well, can I see your test results? He's like, oh, they were all negative. Never sent me any test results. You know what I mean? Like, I had a whole rundown of everything showing, like, you know what I mean? So I just thought that was odd as well. And I just was so, like, confused. I was like, what is going on with my body? Like, is my body betraying me? Like, what is happening?

And so, you know, we continue on and get through the holidays. Everything is great. Like, we spend our first holidays together. The kids love it. You know, we open gifts, have a great time. And then Chad and I went to Palm Springs. I think I went early and then he came and met me, I think, on Christmas Day. And he didn't feel well the whole time and had to like basically where we stayed,

we had like our own little caseta. And he basically stayed out there the entire time. And in hindsight, I think he was coming down from drugs. Really? This is something I learned later. Okay. So he, because he wasn't throwing up, he didn't have a fever. Yeah.

But he needed it to be dark and he needed to be alone. Okay. It was just very interesting. Right. And I just, I at the time thought he was sick. And oftentimes, like, I would be traveling and he would cancel on his clients because he was sick. And I'm like, man, for being a personal trainer and in the wellness industry, he sure gets sick a lot.

Right. But that was always the excuse. that he would have to use because I became friends with all of his clients. I worked out with them. We hung out. Like, we became friends. And so there was one time where I was on a, every year for my company, we would have like a national sales meeting.

And I was in Dallas. And he was actually supposed to watch my dogs. And I ended up finding other arrangements. And he kept on saying how sick he was. And, oh, he just, he just couldn't get out of bed. He was so sick. Well, he was actually in Chicago. with another woman I learned years later.

Jesus. Yeah. So that's January, February. I have one rule, DeBoram, about travel. I don't run in airports, okay? Right. And I'm traveling home from a work trip, and I was, he supposedly had a work trip

about an hour drive away from his place. And so I was coming home to stay with the kids at his place. So my dogs were at his apartment. And then I was flying home and I had a connection in Atlanta. And like my flight was delayed and I'm running. Like that was my exception. I will run for those kids. Right.

So I'm like, I'm running in my high heels and my skirt to get my connection so I can get home. I'm literally ordering like DoorDash to be delivered so that the, you know, so that the kids eat. And I get there and he like runs out the door. And I learned later that he has somebody in that town, that where he was going to for his work trip. And here I am, like, racing home to care for his kids so he can go be, you know, doing whatever. With another woman. Yeah. And that night, I put the kids to bed.

We had a lovely evening. Oh, they were just so sweet. And I'm getting ready for bed, washing my face in the bathroom. And I went to go throw something away like whatever, a Kleenex or a Q-tip. And in the garbage, I see lingerie tags that are not mine. And I pick them up. And like the size was, I think, like a 36B, nowhere close to the size I wear. Yeah.

And so I pull them out and I take a picture. And then I just like adrenaline. Like adrenaline is just coursing through my body. I'm shaking. I go through every single cabinet, every single space in his place. Because there had also been a time where I came home from a work trip and there was an empty bottle of Prosecco

and like two champagne glasses. And we would, you know, like we would most nights share like a bottle of wine or Prosecco or whatever. and I saw that there was lipstick on one of them. And I was like, oh, maybe this is from before I was gone. Like sometimes the stories we tell ourselves so that we don't believe that somebody is an absolute piece of garbage, right? Yeah. And he always would use the same scapegoat friend of his, oh, I'm with him, you know, we're having lunch, whatever.

And, you know, I'm sure hardly any of that, you know, those stories were true. So I start just going through everything. And then that night, I, you know, looking under the bed, there was like restraints that he had under the bed, like attached to the bed. Again, now we're like eight, nine months in and never has brought anything like that up to me for our sex life. Weird. Right? So bizarre. So I wait until or maybe it was the middle of the night where I texted it to him.

And I texted him a picture of the lingerie tags. was like, I don't know whose these are, but they're not mine. I obviously am not going to leave your children, but I will get them to school in the morning, and then I'm gone. Like, you're never seeing me again. And he came back and, you know, he ended up coming over that night to my house because he just wanted to talk. And it was just like alligator tears and crying and telling me, like, just the gaslighting and the

deflection, like never addressed that actual situation, but then it became about how his dad abandoned him when he was four. And look, no child should be abandoned. But it's like, what does that have anything to do with this? People use trauma and excuse that, you know, it's like they'll use whatever they can. And I'm a huge believer in, you know, you can definitely have trauma. I think everybody has some sort of trauma. But to use that to your advantage in a situation like that, I'm a huge believer, I'm Absolutely not. There's no excuse to treat somebody else like shit because you were treated like shit. Yeah, it's absolutely disgusting and disturbing, right, that somebody would do that. And in the meantime, like, we had been moving things forward, right?

Like I had on order beds, mattresses, furniture, bedding for these kids to have a bedroom at my house. And of course, they already had a guest room, but one of their own, and for them to each have their own beds. Because the bedroom, the room is like a very long bedroom. So it was like enough for two beds, two nights. So they shared a room, but it was huge. It was awesome. Like they loved it. So we surprised them with that.

Because I, you know, and I think in my head I was like, okay, I think I still, I just, I didn't want these little signs and indicators that kept coming across my radar to be true. So it's like, even when I was like, nope, I'm gone. lingerie tags, that's enough evidence for me. Because I'm not an emotional decision maker. Yeah. I'm really more of like, I need evidence and facts. And it's like, okay, well, that was pretty clearly evident, right? So did he admit that he was cheating? Nope. Nope. He said it was, you know, he must have emptied out one of his, the bag that he was using, his overnight bag from a long time ago. And he just, he emptied it out and it must have been in there. Mm-hmm. And that was the same thing, too,

with like the sex toys when I opened the drawer and I asked him about it. And I just said, I just think it's really weird that you haven't brought any of this up with me. And he was like, oh, I'm sorry if that made you uncomfortable. I'll throw them all away and we can start over. And they're mostly from, you know, with my ex-girlfriend. And I was like, oh, did she need two butt plugs? I can't. So did he end up keeping that stuff or throwing it out?

He threw it away. Yeah, threw it away. But then, same thing. Never tried to, like, very... Like introduce any of that stuff. Very vanilla with me. Very vanilla. Did you ever say anything about the stuff under the bed? The restraints? I don't think so. I think... I don't believe I did. Honestly, I just remember that. It's like, who are you? Yeah. So very vanilla with me. We had a very active sex life, which is interesting in comparison to some of his other... I call them his other public. relationships. He's only had a few. That's what I was going to ask you, were you guys public,

your relationship? Yeah, he moved in with me. Okay. So people knew. Everyone knew. Got it. Okay. We were. And he never like tiptoed around it, didn't try to hide anything. No. Like, he called me his girlfriend, like to all of his clients. Got it. Very fast. Like, I was like, well, we haven't even had that conversation, right? Yeah. But then, you know, then it just kind of naturally fell into that. So, yeah, no, like I was, I was, I met all of his, like, clients. I met his family. I, you know, like very integrated.

Like his kids, right, very quick. And still up to this point, like eight, nine months in, you have not met or spoken to the child's mom? No, I had. I had met her at, like, school, pick up or drop off. But it was quick. Yeah, like a couple months in. Okay.

How was she towards you? Very nice. Okay. Very kind, very lovely. Did he ever tell you how long they were together? They were together. I mean, over a decade. Oh, so while.

Okay. Yeah. So they had dated in college, I think they met, or like right after college. And then got married pretty young, you know, had their first kid and then the second. And then, yeah, so I think they were together, maybe even married for 10 years. Okay. Yeah, so together over a decade. Okay, right.

And honestly, from the outside looking in, seems normal. Yeah. Yeah. And he always would say things. things like he would never say anything bad about her, which was so interesting. Yeah. But all of his other exes were crazy. Okay.

Except for her. And it's like, I wonder if that's because she is always going to be in the picture. Yeah. Type of situation. But even when we were at that cabin before we started dating, we were just like having conversations and, you know, getting to know people, right? Like asking stupid questions. And he was like, what's her favorite candy and all?

was like Sour Patch Kids. And he was like, oh my God, that's mine too. We're totally getting married. You know, and I'm sure part of it was like to be funny, but like that's not a normal thing to say. Right. Like you don't get married over like in the same kind of candy, right? Like just very, very bizarre.

So we make the bedroom for the kids. That's how we spent Valentine's Day together. We get all the, you know, the bed set up and the bedding. And then the next night, I think, was our night with them. And so they came and surprised them and, oh my gosh, they were just like overjoyed. Like they were just like, are you kidding? This is for us. This is our room. And like that was such a joyous, you know, even though we hadn't talked about moving in together, I just really, they were spending so much time there. I just wanted them to be comfortable and happy. And, you know, like that's an easy fix if things didn't work out or whatnot,

even though everything was moving in the direction of continuing moving forward. So we go on vacation to, he takes me to Las Vegas for my birthday, which is in March. You know, we're doing everything together. We spend all, like, you know, even though I'm traveling a lot, all of the time when I am home, we're spending it together. And when you're traveling, you guys are still talking all the time? All the time. Okay. Constantly.

unless he was sick. Okay. So we, the next month, it was like shortly after my birthday, I think it was like in April. His lease was up. And so he broached the subject of moving in together. And it was basically like insinuated or stated in some way that he would just move in with me. And I had just bought that house. It makes the most sense.

Yeah, like a year prior to that, so it made the most sense. I loved it. It was great. Again, kids' bedroom there, like they're comfortable there. It was perfect for a family of four and, you know, everything like that. So they end up moving in. So we're continuing the relationship. They move in fully.

You know, we get his apartment all cleaned out. And again, things just are continuing to move. We have like a little housewarming party for all his. his friends that hadn't been there yet, some of his clients, so they could kind of see where he had moved. And then over the summer, you know, after they move in, a few really weird things happened. Okay. Like, again, just me having some of these weird, intuitive things.

So I was on a trip in Detroit, which at the time, one of my best friends. Actually, my friend that was with us the day that we met. And she was a big fan. Like she loved this relationship. She loved seeing me kind of have this family unit and everything. And, you know, big fan from day one. And she loved that, well, I'm kind of responsible because I was there on the first day. And I was telling you that he was flirting with you and, you know, everything.

So I was on a trip with her. And I had asked him to write me a workout program. I was like, can you just write me a workout so that I can go. work out in the gym that morning and, you know, before I go to work and go see my friend. So he hadn't sent it, hadn't sent it the next morning. He hadn't sent it. And I was like, well, that's weird. And then also, I wasn't getting any like notifications of doors opening or any movement at home from the security system, which I had, and at that point, we had lost my dog Sadie, she got cancer and she passed away. So she was already gone, but they were old.

Like, Sadie was 13 and a half, and then Emilio was 16 and a half when he passed away. So he was an older dog. He was deaf. He, you know, like had mobility issues and whatever. So he was supposed to be caring for my dogs when I was traveling, right? Because we were a family. We were a partnership. Like, he was living in my house. And so when I was gone, he was to be taking care of my dogs, or dog at that time, not abandoning and neglecting them, which I think there's a special place for people that can abuse and neglect animals. So you knew he wasn't there because there was no movement and stuff. Okay.

And he wasn't sending you the workout plan. Correct. Okay. It's because he was busy. Right. So I get home and I asked him about it. He picked me up at, like, I had a really early flight. So I think I got home at like seven in the morning.

I think I had like a 6 a.m. flight, like something silly. So I think I got home at like 7 in the morning. He picked me up and he had coffees in the car. And God, he looked so tired. Just exhausted. Right. And I was like, are you okay? And he was like, yeah, fine.

You know, like I had to go train clients this morning. So I was up early like my usual, yada, yada. I was like, okay. So I asked him about the security system. And I was like, well, the security system shows that there was no activity. And he's like, well, I can't be blamed if technology's not working. And how long was there no activity for? Over 24 hours.

Jeez. Okay. Yeah. And your dog was just left there? Correct. I knew that would get under your skin. Yeah. So after that, we're continuing on.

And then, like, weird things, like on his, again, and then it was his birthday again, and I had just like another weird gut feeling that something was going on. Here I threw him like this really nice party. We joined a country club, like just a social membership because they had a pool and stuff. So that was great for the kids in the summer. It was just right up the road. It's like, I'm doing all these family things, right? Like we've got the social country club membership. We could go up there for dinner, go to the pool or, you know, whatnot. And so that was where I threw his birthday party the next year. And something just fell off.

Like, I think I saw, like, a text notification, which this is another thing. He never had text notifications on. So you know how, like, normal people, when someone texts you, like, it pops up on your phone. He never had that, which I thought was weird. But I had his password. So it was never, like, so there was things like that where it's like, well, I have his password to his phone. Right. There can't really be any secrets, right?

Like, open book. So we have the party. I had this weird feeling, and he stepped outside when we got home to let Emilio out. And I could see he was on his phone. And I just opened the door. And I could see he had like in the reflection. I could see he had like a big smile on his face. And I opened the door and he like quick put his phone away.

And I was like, oh, he's like, oh, just I'm getting birthday messages. Really at like 10 o'clock at night? Yeah. Okay. And so one of the things. things I had started doing after I found the lingerie because that night, what I also found was Viagra Pills. So back, way back, right, like almost a year prior to that. And I was like, that's interesting. They were in someone else's name, like a very unique name, not even close to

his. And I was like, okay, well, that's interesting. And I started counting them. Again, interesting that that's not something that you would talk to your partner about. Absolutely. And so I started counting them, which when you start behaving outside of your own character and doing things that aren't normal for you, that should also be a really clear indicator in sign. Like that's not something that I would typically do. Like if you're in a trusting relationship, that's certainly not something that you would do.

But in those moments that, like, you don't think about it like that. It's like looking back, you can be like, I can't believe I did that or I can't can't believe I felt like I got to that point where I had to count the pills. But I think it's almost like you've mentioned, it's trying to convince yourself that there's nothing going on. There's always like a reason. And I think for me, it wasn't that I was trying to catch him cheating. Right. It was that I was trying to find security in the fact that he wasn't. Exactly. And that's why I was counting the pills. Right. Trying to prove to yourself like, no, nothing is happening. Like it's okay. Yeah. But little did I know.

He had little foil packets of them everywhere, like in his bag, in his car, in his pant pocket half the time. Like, I mean, he just had him everywhere. So why? Did he have erectile dysfunction? Well, was he just always needing to be hard for other women? Yeah. I think the amount of people, notice I say people, the amount of people that he was interacting with and the frequency, I think is outside of the. So you're saying people because it was men and women?

Who knows? I've been informed that he's in swingers clubs. One of his public, his only public girlfriend before me, she told me, she's like, I think he's bisexual. See, it's scary too. Because besides all of the relationship aspect and the pain and the hurt, it's dangerous. Yeah. And I, again, I don't condemn anyone's life choices unless you know about it.

If they know about it. Yeah. Unless you are putting. someone else. And that's why people are like, well, did he ever put you in physical harm? And I'm like, the negligence of what he was participating in. Absolutely. And me thinking I'm in a monogamous relationship. Yes, he did put my... You could have gotten horrible things. Yes. He could have put my, he was putting my health at risk. And to me, that is a form of physical abuse. Absolutely. It's disgusting. It's fucked up. Yeah. It's really fucked up. So he, um,

So I'm counting the pills. And, you know, we, I know, and this is going to sound so bad. But I just, again, I knew in my gut on his birthday night. Just I was like, something didn't sit right with me. So I withheld sex. Okay. And he was like, what's wrong? And I was like, yeah, I'm just really tired.

Yeah. And just wanted to go to bed. But then the next morning, I noticed he had taken a pill. And now in hindsight, that just gives me so much. satisfaction. Yeah. That he wasted one on his birthday because he probably felt entitled, you know, like he was going to get laid and just didn't happen. Sorry, buddy. Yeah. I mean, but also so many women can relate to that. I mean, not even, I mean, whether it's you're in a argument with somebody, you know, a partner, or they say something that pisses you off, of course

you're not going to be in that mindset to give yourself to them in that state. Yeah. You know, only because at that point you're forcing yourself to do something purely for their benefit, not for years. Right. Yeah. If you're not into it, you're not feeling it. And I certainly wasn't. So we were leaving literally like a couple days later.

We'd been planning this trip for, I don't know, six months to go to Italy. And the day of he had a work conference. So he's a personal trainer. And then he had this job on the side for, a nutrition company. And his account that he worked on was the chiropractor school. So this chiropractor school, a lot of the chiropractors would carry these supplements and these like greens, powders and stuff in their practices. So he always would go and give these presentations or host these events at the chiropractor school in Minnesota, which is a really well-respected chiropractic school.

And I'm not sure where along the line, it was definitely before I came along, where he started, and so I know a lot of what we've been talking about so far as the cheating, but he is a, and I teed it up that he was basically living a double life. Like, he's a complete fraud on every level. Okay. So when, like, financially, I mean, the amount of money that this person, that this guy owes people, it would blow your mind. Yeah.

I mean, just not paying people for things, screwing people over left and right. He says he's a millionaire. And I have receipts for everything. Anything I talk about, I have receipts for. The screenshots that people love to send me and share with me about his behavior, still today. Just last week, I got reached out to by another woman who had just gone out on a few dates with him. And she was like, I've never looked anyone up before. Something didn't sit right.

and then I got this information. I saw your book. I always believe women about your book just to support you. And I want to thank you for sharing your story and being so inspiring. Right. It's like, okay, every time we save one, right? Like, okay, good. Saved another one.

So he would teach at these chiropractic schools. And at some point along the way, he must have thought, oh, well, they can do it. So can I. and began performing medical procedures and chiropractic adjustments on people. And he has harmed people severely by doing this. He has a buddy that's a college soccer coach, and he will send his college students to him to get adjustments. He is not a doctor.

Not only is it incredibly dangerous, it's illegal. And the fact that people, like that that guy would send college. Like, could you imagine having a college student knowing that they're being sent to someone to have medical procedures, chiropractic adjustments? That's not a doctor? It's horrific.

Yeah. So, you know, he's doing that. And, you know, so that's his job, but he's pretending to be a doctor, right? He claims to be a millionaire, like on some of his dating profile. So I later found out that he was on like these websites It's called Seeking Arrangements on these fetish websites all while he's living in my house and meeting up with people in these different environments.

And on some of those who would say that he has a graduate degree that he doesn't. He says he's 5-11, not even close, 5-9 on a good day. But just things like that people think are nominal or just like not a big deal to lie about. But if you're willing to lie about how tall you are, like what, else are you willing to lie about? Like, something that's very clearly, like, I can see that you're not 5-11, something that can easily be disproved. And I know women that went out with him that are like, dude, you have on your dating profile, you're 5-11, you're not. Yeah. Like, it would clearly call him out. Right. So we are, so this nutrition company, the day we're leaving for Italy, he has a work conference,

and he tells me, text me, and he's like, hey, I just, want to give you a heads up that my ex-girlfriend is here. You have nothing to worry about, but I just wanted to be transparent. And that made my blood boil because he could have just not, if it really was a non-issue, nothing should have been said. If it was really a non-issue. And her and I actually connected later on after we split up and I had asked her about it. And she was like, yeah, I saw him that day. But like, no, nothing happened because I was not interested. Yeah. But I couldn't, but the odd thing is, is I don't think she was the problem. I think somebody else was because I couldn't get a hold of him all day. And I was like, here I'm supposed to be

like literally going on this trip with him tonight. And I'm calling my friend, the one that was with me the day of. And she was like, I don't know, I just think you're overreacting. Like, if he said, it's not an issue. And I'm like, but why bring it up if it's not an issue? Like, clearly he has an issue with it. Right. Or there's some sort of an issue. And I don't know exactly what happened that day, but my gut tells me something. So anyway, we go to Italy and we have mostly a great time. I mean, we did. We had actually a great time. But we get back. So this is October. So we're, you know, we're approaching. We were together, I think, like a total of like 15, 16 months. So just shy of a year and a half, which is long enough, right? But not, you know, it's not years.

Yeah, but I think, too. I never think, I mean, there could be people that are together for 10, 15 years and have no closeness and, you know, no connection. So I don't think time always matters. I think the fact that it did feel like everything was moving so quickly, there were kids involved, which I think makes it a lot more emotional. There were so many things tied in. You know, I don't think it doesn't matter if it was six months or 20 years. Yeah. I know sometimes people have different opinions on that, right? And I... And that's okay. And that's fine. And I know oftentimes, like my friends who are divorced with kids who are starting dating again, they ask me all the time, they're like, how long should I wait to introduce my kids? And I'm like, that's a very personal decision. Talk to the person you're dating about it. Set some sort of a guideline that makes you both feel comfortable. And usually I think for most people, it's like that five, six month range, right? Like where you do feel like, where you do feel. like things are continuing forward where, you know, where it feels comfortable for you, for the kids,

for, you know, the other parents that you're co-parenting with, right? Like, there's a lot of dynamics. So we go to Italy, have a great time. Nothing seemed really off at that point. The only thing on that trip that I remember was we were laying in bed and his ex-wife was texting him because he was like 10 days late for paying social support and child support. And so I just, I remember him doing that and like going back and forth with her about like, you know, he couldn't pay the whole amount, but he could pay this amount and whatever, which was so interesting to me. And then we get back and I immediately have a work trip like one or two days later. And this is when I went to Florida, which was one of the dates when we were.

my friend sat me down at happy hour in the middle of the night to give me all this information, was like, can you just double-check the dates? When I was on that work trip, it was a Thursday night or a Friday night. And I remember, like, exactly where I was. I was sitting on the edge of the bed, and I was texting with him. And I had this weird bump forming on my face. And I worked in medical aesthetics, you know, around dermatologist, plastic surgeons and everything. And we had a conference the next morning, or like a seminar that I was co-hosting. And I asked one of the people, I was like, what is this in there? Like, it looks like a spider bite. And I was like, okay, interesting. I was like, it kind of hurts. And it was growing bigger. And I was like, okay, but if it was a spider bite,

it's been here for like a couple days now, don't you think it would be getting better, not worse? And they're like, yeah, keep an eye on it. Like, we can prescribe you a steroid if you need it, whatever. And that night I'm sitting on my bed, on my bed in the hotel, and I'm texting with him. And it's like, 7.30 at home. And he's like, oh, man, I just, I really don't feel well. And it was our night with the kids. And he was like, I just, I don't feel well. Like, I just can't even be a dad tonight. So he went and dumped his kids off at his ex-wife's sisters who had five little kids at the time and, or maybe even six. I can't remember. I can never remember. I think six, I think she had just had the baby. Like, has an infant, these five kids, because the kid's mom

was working that night or like had a conference or something, so she wasn't available. So he dumps them off. And I thought at the time I was like, oh, no, that's weird. And I remember feeling like this wave came crashing over me, like just this really weird sensation that something wasn't right. So I get home the next day and I had noticed that I was gone for two nights and looked in his bedside drawer. And when I left, there were two Viagra Pills in a little packet. And when I came home, there were zero. And then I went out in his car and I opened up the trunk and he had an overnight bag in there. So I went to the grocery store because, you know, I was not only paying all the bills,

I made sure the lawn was mowed and the house was cleaned and I did all the grocery shopping and all the laundry and all the cooking and the school pickups and drop-offs and soccer games and, you know, made sure everything was, you know, functioning on top of traveling like I'm maintaining the household, maintaining my friendships, maintaining a, you know, workout routine, all of this stuff. And so I go to the grocery store and I called my friend that was with me the day that we met. And I'll never forget it. Her dad was really unwell at the time. And I called her and I was sobbing hysterical. Like hysterical in the back of this grocery store parking lot. And she was like, I can't like incomprehensible.

Like I'm hyperventing, which is so unlike me. And she was like, I can't even understand you. I can't hear what you're saying. Like, are you okay? And I was like, I don't know. I don't think so. She's like, hang on, let me finish up my call with my dad. I'm going to call you right back. So she calls me back and I tell her, I was like, I feel it in my bones. I know it in my soul. He's cheating on me. And she said, he would have to be an absolute psychopath to do that to you and to his children.

And she's like, there's no way. There's no way. Just go home and talk to him. So I go home and I talk to him and we're sitting. in our bedroom. And, you know, I asked him. And I asked him about the Viagra pills, which I'd never talked to him about all this time. And so I said, well, there's two when I left and now they're gone. And he's like, well, I don't know what to tell you. I didn't take him. I didn't take him. I didn't take him. And he just sits there and continues with that he didn't take them. And he doesn't

know, you know, I don't know what could happen. It's like, well, there was two when I was there. And you also have this overnight bag in your car. Like, where are you going with your overnight bag? Well, you know, sometimes I shower at my gym. Sometimes I have an overnight bag in there. Never showered at his gym, very rarely. And then all of a sudden, I think I pressed enough where a switch flipped. Physically, he changed and like his eyes changed. I only saw this two times with him. It was like I pinned him in a corner enough

where he like switched into a different person and like the rage and the anger that he had and like his eyes turned to stone. It was so scary. He was like, and he said, fine. You want to know what happened to him? Yeah, that's why I've been asking you. And he's like, I gave them to my friend. He and his girlfriend went on a trip and he asked if he could borrow some. So I gave him to him. They were gone for two nights he wanted two. And I was like,

well, it's a little weird that you want to have just given him the foil pack then and that you took them out to give them to him. And also, don't you find it a little peculiar that that as your partner, you've never had this conversation, but you and your buddies talk about your erectile dysfunction medication. And then that was when the manipulation and the gaslighting ensued. Had I known that you had any trust issues in this relationship, I would have never uprooted my children and moved them into your house. Mind you, it was the most stability that they ever had on his side of things.

And when he moved out of my house, it was the fifth or sixth place he had lived in five years. So that, we had one of the kids that weekend. I don't remember what the circumstances were, but they wanted to go to a movie. And so Chad asked if I wanted to go with, and I was like, no. And I literally just laid and cried in bed because I knew something was off. Something was so wrong. Meanwhile, this thing on my face is continuing to grow over the weekend. My eye and my forehead, like the side of my face is completely swollen.

My eye is starting to like, like my eyelid, my brow, and my eyelid is becoming so heavy. Like it's starting to like close my eye in some capacity. And so he and I went to dinner on Sunday night or Monday night. And we went and saw a star is born. I don't know why. I just like remember these details. And we are at dinner and I was like, I don't know what, this can't be a spider bite, right? Like, it's been all these days wrong. And so I text a dermatologist friend of mine and I explained her what's going on. And she was like, you need to come in tomorrow morning. Like I can see, I can squeeze you in at like 8, 10 tomorrow morning.

So I went in, she walked in and she was like, you have shingles on your face. And like, are you you under an extreme amount of stress because it is not normal to get shingles on your face in your 30s. Meanwhile, I had just had some pre-cancerous skin lesions removed. My hair was all falling out, breaking off and falling out. And then I get shingles on my face in my 30s. And my dermatologist was like, I am so glad you messaged me because where this is, so shingles, it's a virus that flares up. Like if you ever had chickenpox as a kid, you have the virus. in your body. So that's why when people turn 50, there's a shingles vaccine so that you don't get shingles. So people perceive it as a skin condition, but it's actually a virus that attacks your nervous system.

So it follows your nerves. So I had this lesion, and you'll be able to see when we are up close. Like, I have this scar here that will never go away. So it follows your nervous system, and the nerves in your face kind of go around your eye, down your nose. I had another one starting. on the side of my nose, and she was able to inject them with a steroid to get them to go away, and then you go on antivirals and steroids. And it's pretty intensive. But she explained that where it was, it can actually cause blindness. So my body was telling me and like alerting me that something was very wrong in my life,

in my situation that I was in, like screaming at me, if you will. So I get treated for that. And this is like three days after, you know, I had counted the pills. He gaslights me, tries to make me feel bad about providing stability for his children and a loving, caring home. After I had this feeling of this wave rushing over me, right, of like something's wrong. Again, you know, no motion on the security system at home. So that means Emilio, my 15 and a half year old dog is being neglected.

and abused and not taking care of like he's supposed to be, and he's elderly, right? Like, just horrible. But I continue in the relationship. And he was then like, there would be in those times when I'd have these conversations, then he would be like on his best behavior, right? Like, then it was like the love bombing again, the shower in me with affection and attention and maybe take me out to a nice dinner or whatever. And at this point, we had talked about getting married, having a baby.

baby. And like, these are things. And when we talked about having a baby, he kind of was like, yeah, I just, I love our, like, I'm open to it, but I just love our family the way that it is. Can we just table this and talk about it again? Right. And so it was like, okay, well, that felt like a mature discussion at the time, right? Like, okay, like, yeah, let's continue on and see how things are going. And we, you know, are continuing on. And then we have plans. about a month later to go to my nephew who is like, he's like, my guy, his wedding. He's getting married in Washington State. And we actually, I had asked the kid's mom if we could have them, because our custody schedule was Thursdays to Sundays, and then we would drop them off at church for

them to go with her on Sundays and then pick up again on Thursday. So that was just like our regular routine. But if we were going away from a Thursday to a Sunday, that means I wouldn't see them for two weeks. I'd never not seen them for two weeks. And so I had reached out to her and asked her if we could have them on a Tuesday night. And she, of course, was like, of course, no problem. Like, always so great about that. And so we had them that Tuesday night when I got the text message from my friend, which was unusual, but because we were going to be away that weekend to go to my nephews, his wedding. So now we're back at the Tuesday night, the Tuesday night cocktails. And so I go home and I confront him and I'm like, how do you know this girl? And he's like, well, I dated her

briefly before I dated you. And the only thing I did wrong to her was I didn't want to date her anymore. But she's a little crazy. Okay. And then I just started, and we didn't even talk for that long. Again, like, it was odd that he was fully clothed. Like, I'm talking, like, pants and, like, you know, like a big shirt, like everything. It was so bizarre. And so we start talking. I'm just asking him questions. And then finally, same thing.

He, like, kind of snaps. And, like, I don't recognize him. And I'm like, okay, this is a little scary. And he was like, well, do you believe it? I was like, well, I don't want to believe it. But do you believe it? I said, I don't want to believe it. but I just need some answers for some of these things.

And he ultimately, after about 40, 45 minutes of talking, he's like, I know this is important, but I need to get some sleep and went out and slept on the couch. And then he woke the kids up, which just pisses me off because the mornings were my, like the mornings were mine because he had early morning clients that he did personal training sessions with. And so the mornings were mine. That was like my time with them. And that was the whole reason why I wanted them on Tuesday night so I could have Wednesday morning with them. And he shuffled them, woke them up at like 5.15 in the morning. Like an unreasonable hour. Apparently took them out to breakfast and then dropped them off at school. And then I have no idea where he went all day because he canceled all of his clients.

like nobody saw him, whatever. And at that point, I was like, okay, I've got these pages of evidence of dates that match up to times when I'm out of town, locations, names of people. This girl that came forward thought that she was in a relationship with him for two and a half years. While he's living in my house, I'm parenting his children.

And she's not the only one. So the, I was in the notes. There wasn't a specific date except for that like October 11th or 12th date when I was in, when we had just gotten back from Florida. And I was, you know, got the shingles and everything else. There was a date in that time frame. Remember when my friend was like, are you sure? Are you sure you were home?

Like I just go back and check your dates. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, I was gone that day. And I think that was what made me then start to realize, okay, if that's true, then everything else is true. She didn't give me a specific location of where they had stayed. But so this woman, I don't know, I think she was like 36. She lived with her mom. So, and then she said that they used to go to his apartment, but he would often get them hotel rooms, especially after he moved in with me

because they clearly couldn't come to my house. So did you end up reaching out to these women? So I did not reach out to her, but my friend that introduced us said on the day that he was coming to pick up his stuff, she was like, look, I know this isn't your day to pay it forward, but you're going to. And I'm telling you, like, so this was,

So Tuesday night was when I found out the information. Can we circle back to that? Yes. We'll get right to that because we're like in that timeline now. So Wednesday morning, so Tuesday night I come home, confront him Wednesday morning, he vanishes, disappears. And I am sitting on the edge of my bed. I have a lot of sitting on the edge of the bed moments.

Sitting on the edge of my bed and my bedroom, I didn't sleep a wink. Like I literally, my adrenaline was pumping on overdrive so hard. Like I never slept. So much so, like. I don't know if you've ever been in this situation before, but like I had to get up and pee like every 10 minutes. Yeah. It felt like, I think I say every six minutes because it literally felt like that. Like I was constantly just like getting, I couldn't sleep.

I was just like shaking. And I, there was a Crown Plaza hotel referenced in the notes. And so I just, there's three of them in the Twin Cities. And I just picked one. And I called them. And I said, I'm Mrs. So and so. and I said I need a hotel receipt for a night that my husband and I stayed. We were not married, but I was just at that time because I was like, I don't know if they're

going to give me the receipt. So I was just like pretending. And I was like sitting on the edge of my bed, they're like, okay, hang on one second. We'll be right back. And in that moment, I'm like sitting on the edge of my bed going, whatever happens next is going to completely change the trajectory of my life. If they say no, I'm going to call the other Chrome Plaza's. But if they come back and they say yes, that's the evidence that I need.

And if one of these things is true, they're all true. So they came back on the line and they said, we have that receipt right here for you. Where do you want us to send it to? And so I had them send it to me and I screenshot it. And I sent it to them and I said, here's the receipt stay for the crazy. girl that you dated before me, but that you were just with a month ago. Yeah. And I said, you've got, you're out of my house this weekend.

Like, don't come back here without permission. And I very much, like, laid the ground rules. And I was like, immediately, I'd been violated in so many ways, emotionally, psychologically, my physical space and being had been violated. You know, my trust had been violated. everything that I believe to be true. And when you, in that moment, I mean, it just shattered me because I felt like my entire life had become a lie.

And that's so hard to come to grips with. Not by my own doing, but by someone else doing that to my life. So, and actually there was one other thing that just popped in my mind that I don't think I've ever shared. We were going to a cabin that summer. It was like in August. And I was like, oh, it's like, it's, like our anniversary, and he had me look up something on his phone. And on his phone, there was a,

like, in, like, Safari, like, or just like Google or whatever, like in his browser was the Nicolet Island Inn, which is a really charming hotel, like, in Minneapolis on a little island. And I was like, oh, maybe he's planning something for our anniversary. Like, that's so cute. So I, like, kind of got excited and, like, swept it away. Like, I don't want him to know that I know, right? And it turns out we never went there. Certainly, he probably went there with somebody else because our anniversary came and went. We never went there. You know, nothing never like that happened. So anyway, you know, that morning, he's out. I sent him the screenshot, the message, and then he asked if he could come by that night and get some things. And I was like, I said, you can, you can come,

but you can't come unaccompanied. And here are the three people that I approve for you to. show up to my house with. And I wouldn't let him in. And I had neatly arrayed some of his items on the front step. Like, like, you're in this moment, like, not some of my proudest moments, but you're in this moment of, like, just stupid things that you can do to, like, make yourself feel a little better. Yeah. You know, like, I emptied out all of his Viagra packs and flushed all the pills down the toilet and put all the empty packs out on the front step with him. And, like, some of his ugliest clothes. and put his toothbrush bristles down on the front step. You know, he might have scrubbed the dirty front steps a little bit with it.

Just stupid things. And he, like, just stepped over it. And he was pissed that I wouldn't let him in my house. He came alone? No, his friend came with. And I said, he can come in, but you can't. And he's like, you want him to pick out my clothes for me? I was like, I'll pick him out.

So I packed a bag for him, and his friend was asking me all kinds of questions and was just, like, devastated. So you don't think his friends knew? I think his friend, I think complacence and silence is a decision in itself. Yeah. Standing for nothing is also standing for something. Right. And I was very clear with him because that friend actually asked me to get together afterwards

and if I was willing to share everything. But they still continued to associate with him. Right. And so to me, I think that speaks volumes. Yeah. You know and you have all of this information now because I know you know, because I shared it with you. Right.

And he still continued to associate with him. And so I think that says a lot about him as a person. But that was the same friend that he would use and say that he was always spending all the time with, which I don't think he was. Yeah. And I shared that with him. I was like, oh, yeah, you always are together, grabbing lunch, going to happy hour, hanging out all the time. And he was like, no. So he apparently was fine being the scapegoat.

Yeah. And so he came, got some things, and then a couple of friends. I just decided I was never letting him back in my space. I was doing Palo Santo and every corner of the house and started packing up his stuff. Like, I just, I needed to reclaim my space. So I had a couple of friends help pack everything up. And I told him that he could come get his things that weekend. And he was like, oh, that's not going to work for me.

I need to come tomorrow. Or like, I think that was Thursday. He was like, I need to come today. And I said, well, I know you don't have any plans this weekend because we were supposed to be in Washington at my nephew's wedding, which I missed, because that was in no mental or emotional state to go celebrate love at that point. And I needed to, you know, like deal with us. I needed to figure out what was going on. And I remember that Wednesday night, I called the kid's mom. And like, she was at happy hour and she didn't answer.

and I called again, and she didn't answer, and then she finally called me back, and she was like, hey, is everything okay? And I was like, have you heard from Chad? And she was like, no, why? And I said, well, I'm kicking him out. And I heard her take the biggest breath and sigh. She was like, I was afraid this would happen. And so, well, you need to know that, you know, like, he's not going to be living here anymore. And so, you know, neither will the kids. And that part was the hardest. Like, that part was the worst part of it. And she literally was like, I just, I'll never forget her saying that. I was afraid this would happen. And I said, did he do this to you? And she was like, oh, yeah. And it was in that moment, right? And I was like, did you ever want to tell me? And she was like,

yeah, but would have you believed me? Right. Like, I would have been the crazy ex-wife that just wanted him back. And because he's so great, right? Like, you've never, you know, you've never had a relationship like this before. He's never loved anyone like this before, like all of the things that you're told. I've never met anybody like you before, right? Like all of these statements that you're told and kind of this bill of goods you're sold. So I told her, I said, well, I'm going to pack up his stuff and have him out this weekend. So he kept on trying to change the date. So he was continued to try to assert control. So finally, at one point, I just said, look, you can. You can't. can either make the generous parameters that I've created for you. You can come between the hours of

12 and 4 on Saturday or 12 and 4 on Sunday. If you can't make those work, I will put everything out on the curb and you can pick it up at your convenience. And somehow magically he made that work. Right. But even up until the time, and I had a bunch of friends come and we were having like mimosas and whatever, I just didn't want to be alone. I didn't want it to be like a weird thing. And even up until the final moment of him coming to pick up his stuff, he was trying to control the situation. He was like, I'm pulling down the street. You can open the garage door now.

And I was like, I'll open my garage door when I'm good, like, damn good and ready. And so I walked outside and I addressed the people that he had there helping move. And I said, you can, you know, everything is on the left side of my garage. If there's anything that you have a question about that you should touch or should. you can direct those towards me. And I had parked my car across the street. I actually had a loner because the next morning after everything happened when I got the receipt and whatever and told them to move out, I was in such a state of duress and shock that I didn't even know what to do, right? All I could do is kind of look at my schedule and just do the next thing and happen to be a nail appointment.

So I went and got my nails done. And I write about that in the book. And I've had some people leave reviews of like, oh, my gosh, that's so vain. I can't believe, like, the next thing she did was went and got her nails done. And it's not because it wasn't like anything out of vanity. It was just that. To keep yourself going. It's all I could do was just look at my schedule and be like, okay, that's on the schedule.

I'll do that. And in hindsight, it was probably a really great thing to have someone holding my hands for 40, five minutes or however long the appointment was at the time while I'm in this state of shock and duress and trauma to have that oxytocin and dopamine hit and literally someone holding my hands I'm sure in hindsight my nail tech was like what is wrong with her like what is up with her yeah and then I went to the car dealership because I had an appointment to get my winter tires on because I had like performance tires and winter tires on my vehicle that I had at the time and so I went there had to drop my car off

off. I was in such a days. I actually had left my suitcase from my trip that I had come home from in my car the night before. So the morning of him coming to move, I was like, oh my gosh, I don't even have any makeup. Like, where's my makeup? And I was like, oh, my gosh, it's at the car dealership. And they weren't done with my car yet. So I had to go to the dealership, get my luggage so I could come home, put my makeup on. And as I'm driving home to get ready for him to come get all of his stuff out of my house, the girl that gave me all the evidence was like, called me and said, hey, and I'm literally like, actually I was home already. I was putting my makeup on. And she messaged me and was like, hey, I know it's not your day to pay it forward. But, oh my gosh,

what did I name her in the book? Crystal. Crystal is going to come over with her friend to your house and talk to you this morning. She could really use some closure. And so that's what you're going to do for her today as my life has just imploded. I'm being told that I should welcome this woman into my house. And I did. And I was, you know, as kind as I could. And I'm glad that I did because she shared things with me that day. Like when she confronted him about learning that he had a girlfriend that he lived with,

he started crying, saying, you can't tell him. her, like, you can't tell her. Like, I'm stuck. I'm stuck in this relationship with her for her health care because the youngest has a brain tumor. About his own kid. About his own kid. They weren't even on my health insurance. It was all a lie. To put out into the universe that your kid has brain cancer is reprehensible. Like, I just, I can't even imagine or fathom coming up with something like that. And then he had a friend, we call them the flying monkeys in the world of narcissism. He had a friend and he was like, no, Crystal, call, call my friend.

And the friend corroborated it. And was like, yeah, no, they really do have brain cancer. And it's really scary. But that's why he has to stay with her. That is crazy. Yeah, so you can't tell her. She can't find out about you. And even up until that point, she wanted to win him.

She wanted him to pick her. And then in all of the research, you know, I had found, you know, he had multiple, like, adult chatting apps on. I found his iPad. He had a sex video of him with another woman on his iPad. And part of me, like, yes, that's bad. But now I'm a parent, right? Like, I'm not their mom. I never tried to be their mom.

She is incredible and wonderful in every way. But you become a parent in this situation. I love these kids with my whole heart. I am, everything I, you know, did for them was all about protecting them. And I'm like, if I could get into it, they can get into it. They're way smarter technologically than I am. And then even just like he had, like, you know, a bunch of porn movies and stuff in his Netflix account that the kids use.

And on this iPad that the kids use. Right. Like, just crazy. And then I found all of these letters that he had written to women, you know, somewhere from before me, but some were during the time that we were dating, like, just wild. I have it all printed off and all of it saved somewhere. How many women do you think he was involved with while in a relationship with you? Hundreds.

Hundreds. And I didn't even know any of this when I decided to write my book. So this is the crazy part. About a year after the book comes out, he gets posted in one of those, Are We Dating the Same Guy Groups on Facebook? And even right when the book came out, like weekly, almost daily, I would hear from a new woman, a new woman, a new woman, a new person. a new person.

All of these people that had been scammed by him, thought they were dating him, thought they were in a relationship with him, saying, oh my gosh, I dated him during this time. I had no idea. I met him on a fetish website. I had no idea that he had a girlfriend. I had no idea he lived with you. One woman had been dating him on and off, thought she was in a relationship with him for eight years. It's crazy. She was the one that really exposed his drug use, which was something that I didn't know about at all. Like, I was completely in the blind on that. And again, if you want to partake in recreational drug use, that's your choice. You're an adult. But when you're in a relationship and a partnership with somebody, like, that shouldn't be, like, everything was so skeezy and sneaky and smart.

Yeah, you didn't know anything. I didn't know any of this. But she confirmed, like, again, I have receipts. I've got screenshots of him, like, you know, cocaine and drugs on his countertop and him texting her going, oh, I can't wait to snort Coke off your ass again tonight. And just, and she told me that the lingerie tags were hers. So eventually I found out who the lingerie tags were from. She also shared with me who the person was that was in Chicago with him,

which her and I are actually now very close friends. She actually got a text message from her while we're sitting here. And she explained a lot of things, put together a lot of pieces, people that he went to school with, elementary school, junior high, high school, like the amount of people that have reached out to me, and then just the screenshots of the comments that have been sent. So women started sharing my book in that. And then they would start reaching out to me.

They started sharing the book. That's actually what made my book a number one bestseller. Wow. Thanks, ladies. Right. You know, like, and then he just, he got posted again. And the girl that he was dating, I like to give people nicknames, not in a condescending way, but we called her the toddler because she was literally twice as close to his

kid's age as to his age. She reached out to me. they were living together at the time when my book came out. And he, you know, it's things that he would tell people. Like, people that, like, people would send me screenshots of the conversations they were having with him. He would be like, oh, yeah, everything's a lie, but I'm not going to read it. Well, if you're not going to read it, how do you know that everything's a lie? Right.

And everything's not a lie. Like, I didn't put anything in there that I don't have receipts for. There's more that I didn't put in there, even stuff that I'm sharing with you today, that I never put in the book. Things, a lot of stuff I didn't even know until long after. Right. You know, like in the, so I got together with toddler. And also it's nice because then I don't have to use her real name.

Yeah. Right. And so I got together with her and her best friend. I sat with her, cried with her, held her hands for three and a half hours. You know, and she asked me questions like, you know, do you think he's cheating? Or do you think he's changed? And I was like, no. If you knew the answer to that question, you wouldn't be asking me.

Yeah. Or like, you already know the answer to that question. Also, you know, this isn't just a, not that there's any type of better type of cheating or that there's any, you know, one's worse than the other. But we're not talking about one slip up here. No. You know, we're talking about somebody that's living an entirely different life. He's into shit that he never even introduced to you, which is so bizarre.

It's almost like he enjoyed being different people, you know, with different people. Yeah. And I was the perfect host for him because I elevated his life. So I made this life that how he wants to portray himself as a great dad and a family man. I did that. And so then that's what like his clients thought because that's what they saw. Well, I also feel like you were a good candidate because you were such an independent, busy woman. So it's almost like you weren't somebody that is home all day and it's super observant and looking over his shoulder all the time.

time. You had your own life. You had your own shit to do. So obviously, you didn't have the time to be double, triple checking everything you're saying. No. And I went on vacation. I went on girls trips. And so like in addition to traveling for work all the time, right? Like you said, it was perfect because I wasn't always there. Even though when I was traveling, like the communication was very frequent, very, you know, all the time. But. But, you know, you know, all the time. But, you But even, like, so right when things happened, when everything went down, the kids asked their mom if they could keep a regular custody schedule with me. They're like, well, mom, can we like still do Mondays at Ginny's? And she's so sweet. She was like, look, I can't change the custody schedule,

but you can ask to go spend time with her anytime you want. And if she's available, we'll make it happen. So it might have been, no, it was a few weeks after everything had happened. So they were at my house because I had just gotten Francine, which we should probably unpack that. Frantzine is my perfect Kevler, King Charles Spaniel, my child. And they wanted to meet her. They were so excited. So they came over on a Monday night and they were snuggling with her. They were really struggling with the situation. And one was hanging out downstairs. One was upstairs. I could, I can't. I can't. I can't. I I can't remember if it was the younger, I think it was the younger that was hanging out downstairs and was really emotionally struggling with it and was wanting one-on-one time with me. So I was going back and forth, like, spending time with the older one upstairs and then going downstairs and just trying to balance their emotions and what they were feeling.

And, you know, they were just, they were happy to be there, but it was all still really confusing to them. But it was almost nine o'clock in the doorbell rang. And the oldest yells downstairs and was like, Jenny, someone's at the door. And I was like, hang on. So I run upstairs and, you know, I look on the nest camera and I was like, or no, I don't even think I had the nest camera yet. So I opened the door and I was like, can I help you? And he asked for Chad. And I was like, he doesn't live here anymore.

He's like, are you his ex? I said, yeah. And I was like, can we just not do this? His children are here. And so I like stepped outside and I was like, how can I help you? And he's like, well, I'm a problem. process server. I'm here to serve him papers. And I was like, what is this about? And he was like, I don't know. And even if I did, I couldn't tell you. We still to this day have no idea what that was

about. But also when I sat down with toddler, again, I don't say that in a disparaging way, right? Like it was just intended to be a clever, cute nickname as a way to identify her and not use her name. So she asked me a question. She's like, do you think he pays his taxes? And I was like, again, you probably already know the answer to that question if you're asking me. And I said, well, why do you ask? And she's like, well, because there's just stacks of letters from the IRS. And so, well, how many letters have you received from the IRS? Right.

Like just using, you know, deductive thinking. And she told me about a story one time when she suspected he was cheating and he had plans with a client. And she went out to dinner with a girlfriend, and that client walked into the restaurant without him. Right. You know, so she laid everything out. And I, because again, even after all that, I still wanted to see the good in people. I, you know, shared a lot of things with her that I hadn't, you know, shared publicly just to try to help her. And she went back to him.

That weekend, actually, her family moved her out. Like her family started reaching out to me going, oh, my gosh, thank you for saving. her like we're so grateful, like, more indebted to you forever, yada, yada, yada. Well, she got back together with him. Shared things confidentially that I had shared with her. And then it all got twisted, tried to turn the kids against me. Because meanwhile, the kids actually didn't talk to him for almost a year. Didn't see him, didn't talk to him, because they started to figure things out. Right. I continued to show up. So this all happened in November when we split up. And we had just gotten back. I had a work thing in Chicago, and we made a trip out of it.

And we went to see Hamilton and, you know, whatever. And he kept on pressing that he wanted to get a puppy after Sadie had died. And I was like, I just, I think I want to wait. Like after Emilio goes, like, I just, I've had dogs and this responsibility in my entire adult life. Like, I'm going to, I think I just am going to want to break, like have the flexibility of not having to get, you know, dog care when I'm traveling and all of that. So he kind of broke me down and we, I got a referral from my vet for these Kevler, King Charles Spaniel, this lady that she shows them. She doesn't really, she's not like a breeder, breeder. She just does like one literally a year because she shows them, but then if she has any leftover, she will sell them. So we had a long phone conversation. She like

does this huge vetting process. We had like a 45 minute conversation from Chicago with her. about like what our family looks like and you know how old the kids are and what our day to day looks like and how you know so then she kind of fits the personality of the puppy and nothing was available so we were just going to get on a waiting list so we had an appointment for Thanksgiving weekend and we had split up in the meantime but I still went so I go and you know I meet the lady and she kind of looks out the door. She's like, just you. I was like, yep, just me. Things have changed. Yeah. And so I just didn't even really address it. And she was like, okay. And so I just was going to put my deposit down. And she had 14 dogs. So she has eight adult

show dogs, including the mom that had just had 10-day-old babies. So there's these three little tiny 10-day old babies. And she was like, those are all taken. And then she had three, five-month-old puppies that she was keeping. There were three sisters, Quinn, Gabriella, and her name was Elizabeth at the time. And I was going to get a tricolor. For sure, I thought I was going to get a tricolor or a blenem or then a black and tan or then a ruby. And so there was two blenoms and one ruby. That was Elizabeth. And Elizabeth was the runt, like tiny compared to her sisters. And the sisters kept on like bullying her and she kept running to me to like be saved like jumping up on me and jumping up on like trying to get to me and she the breeder had kind of mentioned like very quickly in passing but i picked

up on it she said i might not be able to show her or keep her as a show dog because she has a slight underbite sometimes it corrects itself at about six months but if it doesn't i might not be able to I could not stop thinking about her. Like, please keep the underbite, please. And I, that day, I also had my first sit down with the kids and their mom. Their mom had invited me over and she was like, they're really struggling. Like, they're really having a hard time. And her and I had sat down and had hours already of conversations.

And honestly, I think it was super validating for her. I think even up until that point, she thought something was wrong with her. Right. Right. It was easy to think, why did this happen to me? Yeah. Or what was wrong with me? I think that's where sometimes our mind likes to go.

And over time, it has been so fun to see her get her swagger back and how she navigates the situation and just the amazing mom. She is determined to not have these kids turn out anything like that guy. Anything like that guy. And so we sat down and on my drive over there, I called the breeder and I was like, hey, I can't stop thinking about her. I think she needs me and I need her. And I really do think.

And I immediately changed her name to Francine. And it's so fitting. And I really think we saved each other. I love it. Like, it was one of the best things. And so, yeah, so she came home with me the next week. But on my drive over there, I called. And she was like, I'll have to think about it.

You know, it's going to take me about a week or two to figure this. out if I can make it happen or not, I'll be in touch. So I think she called me like a week later and said yes. I love it. So I sit down, I sit down with the kids and their mom, and I'm sobbing. Like, I mean, I'm shattered. I'm still heartbroken at this point.

And they're confused. They're like, we don't understand. Like, and her and I, their mom, we kind of made a pact. Like, we'll never speak badly about him to them. They have to figure this out on their own. all we can do, because then that just makes you look bad, right? And especially with what a manipulator he is, he would twist it and turn it and, you know, then make us look like the bad guys. So we kind of just always had that agreement and understanding. And I'm literally sitting there crying,

she's crying. And I'm like, look, you guys, I made this commitment. Like, I made a commitment to you when I committed to this relationship. And that meant thinking that I would either at your high school graduations and at your weddings. Makes me emotional now. And she looked across the living room at me, and she goes, you still will be. And that's one of the beautiful parts about this is we are still in each other's lives. Like we call ourselves a modern family, like the four of us. Like her and I are like the closest of friends. We talk weekly. I mean, constantly, we get together all of the time. I do things individually with the kids.

We do Christmas together. We go on family vacations together. One of them just called me, again, this is going to make me emotional because it gives me the glimpse into the people that they're becoming, which gives me so much hope. One of them called me last Saturday,

out of the blue, and just said, because their dad's still, doesn't step up and pay for things. I've been to more of their sporting events in the past year than he has. And that's me. Like, I want to show up for them. I want to do that for them. I want to be there for them. I want to support them. But even things like one of them as a sporting tournament, actually, this weekend. And their mom couldn't afford to go. And I said, let me look into it. I'll see if I can figure out a way to make it happen. And she's like, well, will you come with? And I originally said, yes, but then when I looked at travel, being here with you, and then turning around and the flight

was pretty expensive, I said, I'm going to sit this one out, but I will commit to coming to games in town, right? And so I made that happen for her to be able to travel and go be there this weekend and then paid for the dues for the sport for the year because their dad was supposed to pay for it and didn't. And I don't know if she shares that stuff with them or not, right? Like, I just am happy to to help out. So they called me on Saturday. And it looked like I literally had to get off the phone because I was like, I'm going to burst into tears because it just was, I was so proud in so many ways. And they just called and said, Ginny, I just wanted to call and say thank you for making it happen so that my mom can come to my tournament this weekend and for taking care and helping out of my dues. I'm really grateful that you're in

my life. Sweet. I can't. I can't. It just was such a proud mama moment. And I was like, like, oh my gosh, I said, thank you for saying that. I can't, like, I love you so much. And they're like, I love you too, Ginny. So, like, that part is really cool that we're still in each other's lives. And how long has it been since all of this happened? Eight years. Wow. And do you ever see him at their events and stuff? No, I've never run into him. Since all of this. Never once. Wow. He's scared of me. Okay. He won't go anywhere near me. Okay. Do you ever think of him? Do you ever think of him? about if you're going to run into him at, like, one of their events or something?

So, no, because he doesn't really show up. Okay. And if he, there was one that I wanted to go to because it was at my high school that I graduated from and I was like, oh, I'll go to that. And then their mom was like, he's going to be there. And I was like, oh, has to ruin everything. Like the one that he went to. And then he actually moved away.

He moved to Texas. Okay. For, we call her toddler 2.0. Okay. Because they just keep getting younger. they actually got engaged. And shockingly, that didn't work out. So he just moved back.

He had tried to sell his personal training. And that person reached out to me about how badly they got scammed. He had fraudulently charged like $14 or $1,500 on one of his attorney client's credit cards. Jesus. Who they had stuck with him. Even after knowing all of the information, he and his wife, who we have a mutual friend, had stuck with him, and then once they got screwed over, she was like, I'm really sorry, I didn't believe you. And that was, you know, it's disappointing sometimes when people have to

experience it for themselves, you know, or that it came down to it being about money or whatever for them. And that's fine. Like, that's their own journey. But yeah, so he moved to Texas and was like selling used trucks on Facebook marketplace, not really sure. But I think has been really struggling financially, but he moved back. Before he even moved back, he was already posted in the Are We Dating the same guy group again? People are sending me screenshots of his dating profiles, him saying that he has a graduate degree, that he's a millionaire. Now he says he's a medical device sales rep. Never has been. He's living with his mom at 48 years old. So yeah, that's, I don't ever run into him. But what I will tell you is,

What's really interesting is right when we, a few months after we split up, no, it was quite a while longer. A few years actually, it was after my dad passed away. So my dad passed away in 2021, so five years ago. I had met with this guide virtually. She doesn't call herself a psychic or a medium or anything like that. She calls herself a guide. I don't know what you believe, but I believe in Barb. Okay.

Barb is everything she has ever told me. I've met with her three times now, has all been true. It's wild. When I was still in corporate, this first session I had with her, she said, I don't, your career is going to change. She said, I see you speaking, like on stages all over the world. My primary job now is a speaker. This is what I do.

And I never envisioned that for myself. But also in that same call, she shared with me that chat. had thought about killing me. She said, like, these words were so eerie. I'll never forget them. She said he literally thought about what it would be like to take the breath out of you. And that's not even the weirdest part. I think the eeriest part is when I shared that with his ex-wife, she said, I'm not surprised. Because when backed in a corner, those couple of times where I saw him change, like, and I didn't recognize him. Like, when that switch flips, I think it is really scary. Yeah, like he'd be capable of anything. Yeah, what he's capable of.

So never ever run into him, but he did move back and I have been a little bit more, I don't like to use the word hypervigilant because that sounds bad, but I've been a little more vigilant. Yeah. Like extra precautions at home because he knows where I live. Right. And just, yeah, I saw him one time driving down the street and that was it. That was right after we split up. So how long did you, this was the first book, right? Yeah, you're my favorite. And how long did you write that, how long after you guys broke up? So I started writing it about four or five, six months after we split up.

Okay. And I very actively wrote. Like, I think it was pretty cathartic in the beginning. I'm sure. So I wrote pretty aggressively for about six to nine months. And then one of my close friends kind of discouraged me and made some, backhanded comments about like, well, you know, in order to be an author, you have to be able to explain things without like, like, how you have to describe scenes.

And I was like, yeah, I understand. Okay, but also there's all different types of writers. Yeah. And I also really excelled at writing in, you know, school and in my life, I'll be fine things. And so I kind of got discouraged and, you know, put it away on the proverbial shelf for about a year and a half until my second session with Barb. I need Barb's info. And Barb said, and I, my friends, I had two friends in the room at the time.

One has unfortunately since passed. But my friend, that was with me, she was actually visiting me this weekend. And Barb said, there's something that you've started that you keep circling back to that you haven't finished. It's about 80% of the way done. And she said, but you keep circling back to it. You need to finish that because your job is. in this life is to help people heal and share their stories. And all three of us looked at each other

and were like, it's the book. And Barbara's like, I don't know, is it the book? Yeah, it's the book. Then finish the book. Yeah. So I literally scheduled a session the following week with the publisher. I worked on this book with the following week and we set a six month timeline and published it that following spring. Amazing. And that's the one that became bestseller. Yeah. That's your my favorite. And that's the story of what we talked about here today, the story of my experience. And I want to be really clear, it's not about him. Yes, of course, it's about the things that he did, but it's really about my journey. Absolutely.

And I think in this situation, a lot of people could choose to be jaded or have a chip on their shoulder or never trust anyone again or become angry. I think that is kind of the easier path. Insecure. Insecure. Yeah, I think that's the easier path to take. And people ask me all the time, they're like, well, why did you? you, why did you choose to share the story and, you know, want to help other people? And when I first did it, and I think this is sort of a self-preservation technique, I was like, well, if I can just help

one person, you know, like, that's so stupid. Don't ever think that with the work that you're doing, that it's meaningful, right? Like, and it was, and it did turn out to be really meaningful. I had, you know, I put the book out, I was still in corporate. I still had my big, fancy corporate job. Like, I had no intentions or plans. Luckily, I had a super, super supportive boss, who is actually going to be coming, staying with me next week from New York. She flew out from New York to come to the book party. And in her support still to the day, she was one of the first people that bought my new book. And I worked in aesthetics, which a lot of companies and people, they don't encourage or support out, you know, like doing things outside

of your corporate job. And I was really fortunate to have that. So I really had no idea what I was going to do with it at that point. It wasn't until almost a year later after that book came out that I had, you know, throughout that year I started building, I heard a business coach, a speaking coach, got all my coaching certifications through an ICF accredited program, really started building the foundation for the work that I do today. Then I, you know, and through the whole process, like I went on a meditation retreat, which prior I would have been like, yeah, you go take your cute little pillow and then you're going to go sit down and do your thing. But that has been life changing for me.

Absolutely. Meditation is key. Yeah. I have just, I was so misaligned and I really came to the understanding that why I picked him is because his behaviors were familiar to me from my family of origin. The narcissism, the manipulation, the gaslighting, and there's comfort and familiarity even if it's bad, unfortunately. And I had to do a lot of inner child work. I had to, I chose to do a lot of inter-child work. I chose to do a lot of work. I chose to start meditating, journaling, just really changing.

And I feel like I have become who I was always meant to be. Yes. I've become more of myself. I've come into alignment. The softness and vulnerability that was always there, but hiding under this tough shell has now been exposed. I cry all the time. As you should.

It's okay. Like this emotional person that, again, I think I was just like stifling all of this. And so that vulnerability and like anybody that knew me before and then reading this book would be like, whoa, I had no idea. Right. You know, I had no idea you were going through all of that or I had no idea, you know, like it's just a very different evolution, who I am today versus who I was then. And I think it's really easy to get caught up in the why me when things happen. but I love that you use the word that you chose to do it because I think sometimes we think that, you know,

things will just happen without really having to work for it. And maybe sometimes it does. But I do think you consciously have to make the decision to take a different path to better yourself and to better your life. And nine times out of 10, I don't think that's always the comfortable path to take. But that's usually the path with the most growth and it allows us to, like you said, to become aligned and to discover new parts about ourselves

that I think we're always there, but we didn't have the tools or the experiences yet to unleash it. Yeah. I think we find the best parts of ourselves in things. In chaos and trauma. Yeah. We have the opportunity to find the best parts of ourselves. And I definitely feel that way. Well, because it kind of pushes you more towards these things.

that inflict change, you know, meditation, going on those retreats, having people help you, you know, along that way to get to where you are now, hiring coaches and not everything else. It's like, would you have done those things if you weren't almost forced to in a way? You still make the choice. But it's like, okay, I'm right here. This is how I'm feeling now. I either stay in this pain and this trauma or I try something different. And I try, you know, and I think the best thing is when we can take.

a better path for ourselves, but that it also includes helping others. Because so many people need to hear your story. So many people need to hear everyone's story. And it's funny, because I always used to say when I started this and even when I would talk to people, it will always help at least one person, I promise. And just to see, that is, that's such a small number. So small. Like, it's so much bigger than that. And people appreciate it so much, the vulnerability, the vulnerability. And I think just the rawness of being able to share some of your darkest, hardest moments. And that looks different for everybody. Yeah. I mean, I remember after the phone call and getting the receipt for the hotel room,

I felt like I was going to puke. I was like, my body is revolting. Like, I think I'm going to throw up. Like, I was like, I'm going to be sick. I ran to the bathroom. And I just kind of heaved. Like, I didn't actually throw up. But then I just was like laying on the cold bathroom tile floor in fetal position. Right. Like before I could even peel myself off and start moving forward. And thank you for saying that, like, that people's stories need to be heard because I believe that, too. And even, like, even when I talk, you know, in my keynotes, I only have a, because it's not about me. It's about my audience. So I only have a little, you know, bit of time to just glimpse, like, kind of glaze over my story. And people are always like, we want to hear more

of your story. I'm like, here it is. Here it is, right? Like, there's plenty of places to hear more about my story. But the people that come up to me afterwards in tears going, I went. I went. went through this and you sharing what you went through helped me tap into that and realize it's okay. It's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay that I went through this. It's okay to talk about it. Even if their story is eerily similar or vastly different. That's what I always say, because the emotions and the reactions and the feelings can overlap so much. And that's what people don't realize that by sharing their story, it doesn't have to relate to somebody else's for somebody to hear and seen. And you become an inspiration. You know, you become somebody that you went through

this and you lived in that, but you didn't stay stuck in it. And now you're here. I mean, your whole life was changed. Your relationship, like your love life, everything, your career, all of it changed. And I think that that goes to show that even, even though that, I'm sure, it many times was so scary and so uncomfortable, it taught you so much. And it makes you, I mean, it sounds cliche, but it makes you stronger, makes you grow. It makes you become a version of yourself that you don't recognize it most, but in the best way possible. Yeah, I love that you use the word stronger and strength because I, my TEDx talk, I talk about minimizing. And what a problem it is when we try to minimize our own experiences or even worse when other people try to minimize your

story your experience. And I talk about the difference between tough and strong. There really is a difference. And I actually think earlier when I said, like, who I always was was under here, but like masked under this tough false armor. Absolutely. Tough and strong are really different. So true. Tough is eventually going to break. Yeah. But strength is almost like the shell of it. Mm-hmm. Is the flexibility of what you can carry. And I love to use the analogy of, have you heard of Kensugi? Yes. Maybe just once.

So it's a Japanese art form. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the woman that she came on and she was ran over, like three times or something, I think she's into, she talked about that. Okay. It's like putting the pieces back together or something and making it. Yeah, I love that.

So it's kind of like I always say we have three options. So Kensugi is a Japanese art form where they put a broken piece of pottery, a bowl or a spectre. together but with gold, gold joinery. And so the idea is that that makes it more beautiful. My take on it is we kind of have three choices, right? Like our friend Jessica Buchanan always says you always have choices. And so you could either sweep up the broken pieces and throw them away and pretend like nothing

ever happened. You can try to camouflage it and make it seem like, you know, or, you know, like the sweeping up and throw it away is like ignoring it. And then like trying to make it look like it never happened by camouflaging the pieces together and, you know, sometimes it makes it look worse. Right. Or the gold joinery is to make it more beautiful. Like, what if we embrace those flaws?

If we embrace the experiences, the things that broke us in the first place to catapult us forward to a new, better place than we ever were to begin with. Absolutely. And I think it's so important to, and that's something that I love about this platform is, you know, there, when I began it, I always said I want so many different. varieties of people and stories. And there are some people that come on here and they are very much still in the trauma, still in the pain and the hurt.

And that's okay because there's so many people watching that are right there. You know, there's people that maybe are 10 steps ahead of that or five steps or they're where you are, where it's this full circle moment. And they've grown something incredible. And they can kind of, they can help and teach people, which I was just saying this yesterday to a woman I was speaking to. was saying how how beautiful it is to be coached and taught and relate to somebody who is very inspiring and motivating and that you trust and you want to listen to, but yet you know that

they've also been somewhere that was painful and caused hurt and shame and literally all these emotions because that's what makes us relate to people. We don't always just want to gain all this information from somebody that just has the degree. You know, we want to feel like we can relate to another human being. And it's not to say that anyone is above us or below us or that anyone's story is more important. I think it's just to say, I went through this, now I'm here, and I want to show you and teach you what I've learned through the way. Yeah. And that's incredible. It's incredible that you're providing a platform for people to do that and for people to listen and learn and to feel not alone. I think that's always the biggest thing. People are like, well,

what do you want? I was like, I would don't, I want people to know that they're not alone. Yeah. You know, because it can feel very lonely when you're going through the shit. So lonely. I think almost we want to be alone too, even though it feels lonely. There's nothing in those moments that make us feel better. And that's the reality. No friend, no cocktail. Like you have these little maybe 0.5 seconds where you're like, well, this is fun. And then you're right back to the feeling of being so heartbroken and so upset. And that is so normal. And you should feel those things. Whenever you go through anything, it's just don't stay stuck. You can't because it will destroy everything. You know, and we can never, as hard as it is, we can't let somebody else's

bad choices and lack of growth and everything else be the reason why we stop moving forward. And it's hard, you know, especially when we change our whole lives for people. But I'm a big believer. I've said this a few times on here now, and I'll say it again, that we're not faced with things unless the universe, whatever you believe, God knows you can handle it. You can handle it. You know, it's sucked in the moment, but you more than handled it. Oh, we're handling it. And that's why, you know, it's to hear.

that he thought about killing you doesn't surprise me either because he won't he doesn't people like that want to silence people like you because naturally you hold power in your voice in your story and that is an incredible thing and he is he has no power no and the wild thing to devora is that I, like unsubscribe is all of the work that I do now, right? And like that's what I'm getting booked for TV segments. And that's the second book? That's actually the third. So I don't have the second one here. The second book is a guided journal. So it's called, oh, I love that. It's called I'm my favorite. Okay. It is so beautiful. And it feels weird. Like I'm not saying that in a boastful, braggadocious way. But my illustrator and designer is so incredibly talented.

I love that. The illustrations are beautiful, calming. And so I kind of walk you through. I call it gin path, which is the steps that I took to get through this horrific situation. So if you're going through any sort of a difficult situation, it's 13 months. So you get over a full year of journaling, guidance, different exercises, activities. Send me the link to that too, so I can put it in the description. It's beautiful. I love it. It's so beautiful. I love that work. And that it's a beautiful book. So that was the second one. And the third one is unsubscribe, why letting go is the secret to getting ahead. And that is all the keynote speaking that I do now. It's what my public publicist, you know, like does to get me on TV segments and whatnot. But what I'm finding is that

everyone is interested in the Chad story because it does lead us to where we got to today. And so the funny thing is, is I think that he thinks that like, oh, it's so far in the review mirror. But I'm like, oh, sweetheart, we're just getting started. Like the platforms are just getting bigger. The exposure is just getting bigger. And that will always be part of the core story because it's why I'm where I am today. It is. And I always kind of compare my episodes to a book. And I tell my guests all the time. And something else you had mentioned about people feeling like their stories aren't as, you know, they're not as important or as crazy. And I hear it all the time. We're like, I know my story might not be as crazy as some of the ones you had. And I was like,

that is not the point of the show. You know, it's not, there are some definitely some crazy ones on there. But there are so many people that can relate to just the more simple stories that are just, they hold just as heavy, you know, just the same amount of heaviness and value and trauma and chaos and whatever else. But it kind of goes back to the Chad story because people don't, I feel like people don't want to just hear the climax of your story, the craziest part. And maybe there are some people that do. But from what I have found and the beauty of, you know, the platform I've tried to. create is that people have the ability to tell all of it. They have the ability to tell their childhood if they want to. They have the ability to tell this background of who they are. You know, it's not this. We're so caught up in this social media movement right now where everything is so

quick and fast-paced and you can't hold somebody's attention. And, you know, I get it. That's kind of how it is. And everybody is looking for the next rush or dopamine hit when they're scrolling through TikTok. But, you know, I think the beauty is to kind of take it back and hear about someone's life because it could be the smallest little thing that you share in your childhood that maybe isn't even anything bad or you think isn't even important, but it hits somebody. It hits home. And it makes someone feel like, wow, like it changes somebody's life, honestly. And it changes someone's life and there was not even, you don't even know about it. Like there wasn't a communication. They didn't have to go anywhere. They just listened to a story

from, you know, the convenience of their own home, their phone, wherever they might be. But I always encourage people. I'm like, please share anything and everything. Like, don't, I understand a lot of people reach out with maybe the craziest part of their story or life, but I always encourage people. I'm like, tell me who you are. You could, like, of course, have the main thing or your middle climax be what you want to come on to talk about. But tell everybody who you are. Tell everybody where you are now, your healing journey, because those parts are just as important. But I do. think there is something remarkable and being able to tell everything and have it be full

circle and not just, you know, these key points. And how cool is it that somebody can find you and maybe only hear your, maybe some things that you do for like coaching or helping people and they're like, wow, that's amazing. She's amazing. And then they look into you and there's this whole backstory. And it gives you character. It gives you a personality. You become a human being. You know what I mean? And I feel like it's so easy too. And I don't know if that makes much sense or from explaining that right, but I feel like it's so easy on social media to scroll and you just see all these different faces and it becomes like a blur. But I don't think we should ever lose that human interaction and that connection because it's our stories that connect us to each other, even if we're not directly communicating.

Absolutely. And it's so interesting. Like another podcast I was just on recently, she was she really related to the cheating part. And she got like, when I saw you get, like, viscerally upset about the dogs. Yeah. Right. Like, she got viscerally upset about the cheating and, like, the physical harm potential that you have. And, you know, I was explaining, you know, the, I think it was what I kicked him out, or I found out on Tuesday or Wednesday morning kicked him out. Friday morning, I was at the doctor getting tested for everything under the sun, right?

And if you've ever been there, I was humiliated. I was mortified. I was embarrassed. I didn't do anything wrong, right? But here I am, like, under the fluorescent lights on the crisp white paper with a stranger between my legs and my feet in stirrups, right, because of what he was doing. And but you feel mortified and humiliated. And so it's like, even if people I've ever been in that situation, like, that part can be relatable. And, like, if I can give them any reassurance, it's like, you didn't do anything wrong. There's nothing to be embarrassed about, right? So I think you're right. Like, it just depends on what part of story people can relate to. And that's what makes us all human. Absolutely. And all insane.