We're All Insane - Murdered While Studying Abroad

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

Guest Siobhan, tells the story of the mysterious death of Lauren Bajorek, a fellow student who died on her study abroad trip while in Seville, Spain in 2015. Many believe that Lauren’s death was not an accident and that there was some form of foul play involved. Siobhan had been acquainted with the man involved in Laurens death and describes her observation of him. Since Lauren’s tragic death, other women have come forward with similar stories surrounding this man within their study abroad programs. If you or someone you know was victimized by Manuel Blanco Vela, send an email to [e-mail] Siobhan's Instagram: @siowriter Siobhan's website: siobhanbrier.com Megyn Kelly's segment about Manuel Blanco Vela: https://www.today.com/video/young-woman-alleges-she-was-raped-by-tour-director-on-overseas-trip-1208239171682 The Chicago podcast about Lauren (season two is all about Manuel Blanco Vela): https://www.wbez.org/shows/motive/8c9f445c-4f62-46d6-a7f6-dc70a835e99b If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Chavon Breyer. In 2015, I was studying abroad in Seville, Spain, when a young woman in my program passed away. A lot of people in our program believed that her death was not an accident or that there was some form of foul play involved. I knew the man who she was with the night she died. So I'll be talking about my experience with him and what I've learned about him since her death because it turned out to just be an entire can of worms. And for the people who are listening,

you can kind of come to your own conclusions about who he is and what his character is and how he could have been involved in this young woman's passing and all of the other things that I'm going to be mentioning. So I do want to clarify before I start that talking about this story because it's such a heavy topic, it really wasn't a decision that I took lightly. It wasn't a story that was like easy to compile. I ultimately decided to share it because I spoke with only really after long, conversations with my family, with my friends, notably with Gabrielle Vega, who I'll be mentioning

later in the story. I decided to share it because I think that it serves as a very useful kind of warning tale for young women, especially young women who travel. So on the surface, this is a story about Lauren, who's the young woman who passed. But really more generally, it's a story about dangerous people and how they get close to us and how they often get away with it. And awareness of like you're no one's safe I feel like like it's it's sad to say but I feel like in this day and age it's like you constantly have to be aware of your surroundings and especially when you're traveling it's I mean they always say like travel in groups but even then sometimes it's like you don't know who you're talking to and it's like I feel like if you're a genuinely like a nice

person you give trust and you're like oh they're nice to me like you know what I mean and you don't think twice so yeah and I think that it definitely speaks to like the importance of kind of looking out for each other too. Yeah. Because we're more aware of it, because these are people who usually take the time to gain your trust. And that was kind of the one of the things that I was blindsided by when I went through this was that what came from somebody who I just trusted, like I, and I had been given no reason to not trust him. Right.

So in the summer of 2015, I studied abroad in Seville, Spain. It's a city in the south of Spain in Andalusia. And how old were you? I was 20. Okay. on the first day they told us I was with a program called CIEE on the first day they told us that we were going to have a culture guide so the culture guide is someone who is your age they're from Spain the idea is that they can kind of introduce you to the culture help you integrate meet other people who are your age you know who you can hang out with maybe even become friends with so our culture guide was a young man named Ignacio he was I think probably in his early 20s, had kind of like combed, dirty blonde hair. He was really like clean cut.

Like he was always wearing a colored shirt. He was studying to become a lawyer. And he was not great at his job. Like we were asking him a million questions about Seville. And he was really disinterested. Like he didn't even really seem like he wanted to be there. I remember that I had a friend who was in a different group who was a, her culture guide was this young woman who seemed really charismatic and excited to talk about

Seville. And I was so jealous because I wish that I had somebody who could answer my questions as well. And so we went out on this first day, Ignacio tells us he's going to take us on a tour. And I'll tell you a little bit about Seville, kind of like the backdrop of where all this happened. So it's a really unique place. It used to be the capital of a Muslim empire that came up from northern Africa. So there are these ancient mosques. And then at the same time, then it was replaced by these enormous, like, elaborate Catholic cathedrals. And there are orange trees in the streets and like peacocks and these palaces.

It was a really almost like surreal, beautiful place, really hot and dry in the summer that we were there. And the whole time that we're looking at all of these landmarks with these incredible histories, Ignacio is like rushing us past. So we would try to get a picture and he would just be on his phone or he would be like trying to get us to go. And the whole reason was that he didn't take us there to give us the tour. The whole purpose of him giving us the tour was to take us to a tour travel agency called Discover Excursions. So he brought us to Discover Excursions.

It was a small travel agency, had really like prime real estate. And we went in and it had, I was studying at Penn State at the time. He had a big Penn State flag. All of our university flags were up behind his desk. And so the flags plus the fact that Ignacio brought us there led me to conclude that he was associated with CIA. Like this was part of the program. So he went in. There was a man behind the desk.

He was, I learned later that he was 35. I thought he was in his 40s. He had really kind of like greased hair. he had like a little bit of a beer belly, a super, super white smile. And he stood up and he introduced himself as Manuel White. I later learned that that was a fake name. But at the time I knew him as Manuel or Manu. So he shook my hand.

He said, he said, he asked me how old I was. He asked me where I was studying. I said that I went to Penn State. And he said, he kind of like glanced over at Ignacio and he got this big smile. And he said, oh, Penn State. state girls, I love Penn State girls. You girls really know how to party. And I was like, that's a weird thing for like a program director to be saying. So I immediately kind of was like, okay, he's a creep. But then later that night, I can't remember if it was that night or that weekend,

Ignacio told us that he was going to take us out to a bar. So we went to a bar. And it was like a public bar, but it was really when we got there, the people who were in charge of the trips. So it was all the culture guides and Manuel. And then. And maybe like 40 of the students who are studying there at the time, there were so many of us. Like we kind of just took over the space. So there was like a good amount of you guys that were on this trip. And then were you guys always in a group together? Or did you stay in the same place?

Or how did that work? It was a huge program. We studied in one building predominantly. There were, but then there were also kind of like subgroups. So I think there might have been between 100 and 200, maybe even more students. Okay. So we didn't know everyone in the program, but we would know people for, they offered a bunch of different classes.

Got it. So you would know people who are maybe like taking a class with you or you would know people who were with you like in your little like culture group, something like that. And then were you staying with like families there or were you? Yeah. Okay. I had a host mom. Okay.

And how many of how many students were with that host mom? Like was it just you or was it? Just me. Oh, wow. Okay. So they really split you guys all up as far as like where you were staying and sleeping. Yeah. I think the purpose was kind of, I think that maybe there were people who are staying together,

but I think they really wanted us to not spend the whole time with Americans. Got it. Also get to know people from Spain and kind of feel like we were a part of the community. So there were a lot of options. Like we, I stayed with a host mom. I had a really lovely host mom. But then later in the story, you'll see like that did kind of lead to like feelings of isolation when like things started to go south. Okay.

So we were at this bar. and my friend Snapchated me and she was like, why weren't we invited? I thought that it was part of the program and I looked up and it was actually my friend who had that culture guide that I mentioned who knew a lot about Spain

and was talking a lot about it and I looked up and I noticed that she wasn't there and so I thought, oh, that's strange. I thought this was part of the program but it's weird that my friend wasn't invited and then she was Snapchatting me complaining like, I wish that I got like a cool culture guide would take us to bars

and I remember that at one point I went to the bathroom and I came back and my friend was standing there like holding my drink and he was like you left your drink unattended and I was like oh it's fine like we know everyone here don't worry so much and I think that I kind of I felt like he was just being anxious but I remember that we were all feeling kind of like on edge about sexual assault, mostly because we had gone to, like, an orientation. When they gave us, as part of orientation for the study abroad program, they warned us about sexual assault, and they warned us about the bystander effect. So they said, if you see someone who is getting hurt or if you see someone who's being

harassed, speak up, don't be a bystander. And they told us a story about a woman who was studying abroad somewhere, was using a bathroom, like a porta potty, something like that, like an outhouse. And somebody tried to get into the outhouse and assault her. And someone in the program, he, like, came forward and knocked the door down and, like, saved her. And so I remember listening to that and thinking, like, oh, I would be a hero. Like, I would speak up. But I think that none of us really knew just how woefully unprepared we were to handle sexual assault when it really happened. So anyways, we're at the bar.

We're all kind of like talking about Spanish and talking about school and the program. And Ignacio came by and he handed me a raffle ticket. And I was already kind of drinking at that point. I just kind of took it and said, thank you. And then later in the night, somebody came by and looked at my ticket and was like, oh, you won. And I was like, I won what? Because I had no idea that there was like a raffle going on or anything.

And he said, you won a free trip to Portugal. with Discover excursions. So that night, I messaged Manuel on Facebook. He had friended all of us on Facebook. And I said, I didn't sign up for a trip. I didn't give you my name. Like, how am I going to even like receive this trip? And he was like, don't worry about it.

Like, you're going to get it. Like, don't worry. I'll already put your name down. I put your name down, something like that. And I remember thinking about advice that I had gotten from my dad. My dad is like pretty well traveled. and one of the things that he said was beware of people who pounce. Like when you get that feeling that somebody is just pouncing on you,

like nobody really wants to be a friend that bad. Yeah. Like they probably have some kind of ulterior motive. And I feel like that was such a good way to describe the way that I felt with Manuel. Like I felt like he was pouncing, not just on me but on a lot of other people in the program. So I was uneasy about it, but it was a free trip to Portugal. Like I wanted to go. So I promised my parents, I'm going to be.

okay. Another thing was that a lot of people in the program were going and a lot of people in the program were going for free. And when we got there on that day, it was almost entirely women who were going on the trip, but the people who were in charge of the trip were all men. And it was Manuel and the guys, like the guys who worked for him who were our culture guides like Ignacio. And I just kind of chalked that up to like it was a liberal arts study abroad program. We were studying Spanish. A lot of the people who studied Spanish. it does tend to be women. So I figured that it was something like going on like that.

But there were a lot of us. We filled like two or three huge buses to go from Seville to Portugal. Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe in Apple Podcast.

Podcasts, Spotify or at Americancriminal.com. And I told CIA that I was going to be going with him. Like, we had a program that you could use to report when you were going on a trip. And so I let them know. The people who were in charge of the trip were also, like, the men who worked for men well, were mostly, like, handsome. Like, they were, like, these handsome young guys. So already on the trip, there were girls who were involved in the program who were, like,

flirting with the guys or, like, the guys were flirting with them. or they were starting to get romantically involved. So it was pretty well mixed, like the group. I actually didn't know it at the time, but Lauren, the young woman who passed away, was on one of those buses. She had a friend who was studying abroad elsewhere, and she said, I got this free trip to Portugal.

You should come with me. And so her friend came to meet up with her, and they went to Portugal together. So I remember this trip. Like, I look back on it, and I just remember being in, like, like a foul mood. There was no food provided, but there was tons of alcohol provided.

Tons of liquor for free, but no food that I can remember. And we were out in the sun. So we were at this hotel. It was like this beautiful hotel. We had a private beach, and there were pools out behind it. Like he had really set us up in this really nice place. And as we were walking down to the beach on the first day, kind of on the stone path, he was just handing us drinks.

Like as soon as we came in, he was constantly handing us liquor. And I remember I took a sip and immediately, like, gagged. But then I went, I was hanging out on the beach. I took a photo. I said, like, something about Lagos being beautiful. And then that night, he said that he was going to, like, take us out to a bar. He would always warn us, I should mention, this was also on the bus. he would always warn us that Portugal is very dangerous. So he was always saying, if you ever

need to leave the hotel, you need to tell me. Don't leave the hotel without telling me. Don't do anything without telling me. And he was kind of echoing other people who we had spoken to, like our friends and our family who were, they were worried about us. So they were always telling us the same thing. Like, you need to be careful. This could be a dangerous place. You're in a foreign country. not all like we as a whole there were people on the trip who spoke Spanish but mostly like we were there to learn Spanish so a lot of us weren't like at a level of fluency where we could communicate and if there was anyone who spoke Portuguese like it was a coincidence so we believed him we were like okay we'll put our trust in you um so he took us out to a bar that night kind of like hurting us as a group

and once we got to the bar he started buying me drinks so many drinks I don't even know if he was buying them because I found out later that he had deals with a lot of the restaurants in the area where he would just like girls would drink free. So he, I remember he was handing me so many shots that I started like giving them away to other people because I was like, I don't want this. And then I was already, like I was hung over from the morning. I was sunburned and I was just miserable with him. Like I already didn't like him. So then if once on top of that, I was feeling the pressure. I was just not having a good night. So then at one point he, he, tried to grab my hand and like pull me up onto a table to dance with him in front of a bunch of

other people and I pulled my hand out of his he kept trying to dance with me and I kind of kept kept like trying to escape but he was very like very rough like he would he would grab you and you'd have to like pull away and you could tell he was really grabbing you like you'd have the vice grip on your hand and so then he had told us when we get there when you want to go home you need to tell us and so I went to I think it was early in the night. And I said, I'm not having fun. I want to go home.

And he said, well, we just got here. Like, wait until the end of the night and then I'll walk you home. And I was like, no, I want to go home now. So I'm just going to walk back. And he was like, it's very dangerous out there. You don't know the way back. It's the middle of the night. Like, you should not do that.

You need to be careful. And I was like, I'll be fine, thanks. And I went to leave and then he got belligerent with me. He started kind of chastising me. he was saying, you told me that you went to Penn State, but I don't believe you because Penn State girls are fun and you're not fun, you're boring, look at you, like you're ruining this party, like everybody thinks you're boring. And I kind of looked at him like, what's your problem? And I said, how old are you, Manuel? And he was, or no, I said, where do you go to school?

And he said, I'm not in university. And I said, I said, then why are you always hanging out with like university students? And I kind of wish that I had come up with a better like comeback or whatever, like a better remark. But I think that, I think that that was kind of my way of saying like, what are you doing here? Right. Like, what is your MO? Why are like, why do you want to hang out with us? So I walked back home. I turned around after I said that, I turned around and left, and he kind of half-heartedly was, like, shouting things after me. And then the whole way home, I, like, had my head on a swivel. I was making sure that I was safe.

And fortunately, like, I didn't remember the way home, but I ended up, like, finding the hotel. And then I remember when I got home, I called my boyfriend at the time. And I was, like, I want to go home. Like, I'm having the worst time. And I think that maybe subconsciously I was picking. up on something that maybe I didn't consciously know about yet. Maybe at the time I would have just said, like, I'm uncomfortable or the vibes are off. But what I was really feeling was that it was an unsafe situation. And that was why I was feeling so homesick. That was why I wanted to go home.

So the next morning, I was staying with a couple girls, and they were talking about how much they liked Manu and how much they liked the guys. And I said, he's a creep. Like, you guys don't think he's a creep. And I think I brought up, like, why is he, because I thought he was in his 40s. I said, why is he in his 40s? And he's hanging out with, like, all these college kids. And then the one girl said, no, like, I can see that. But I think that he's just kind of like a dad. Like, I think he's a dad. Like, he's really protective of us. Like, he wants to take, he wants to, like, make sure everybody's okay, kind of, like, be on top of the whole situation. And I kind of left it at that. that day they took us on a trip to a tourist location.

I forget what it's called. It's near Lagos, but they'll call it the end of the world. So it's these cliffs that you can look out over the ocean from there. And I was with an Australian guy named Benny and Ignacio. They were driving us there. And the whole way over Ignacio was bragging about how easy it is to sleep with American women. And he was saying, I met a girl at Penn State. She invited me back.

He said that he, like, slept his way through the sororities, except he didn't say slept. He was like, I just went through all the sororities, and he was saying it's so easy because I'm European, because I have an accent. And then he started, like, mocking them, like, doing kind of the high-pitched voice, like, oh, like, say something in Spanish, like, and pretending to record them on Snapchat. And I was just getting more and more irritated. And then I said, you're a dog.

And then as soon as I said, everyone else in the car was like, oh, come on. Like, leave him alone. And I remember there was a girl with me who I really liked. She had like a really cool style. And she was like, she was like, oh, leave him alone. You know, like, if I got with that many people, then like I'll be bragging to. And I remember I kind of looked out the window and I felt like I almost felt. like so embarrassed. Like I felt like I was like this bitter. Party pooper. Yeah, exactly. Especially

because that's what Ignacio was saying the night before. I'm the same way though. Like I would be so irritated if somebody was just saying all that stuff. Yeah. I don't like that either. I didn't like the way that he was like, I'm not going to be like, yeah, great job. Good job. You're like demeaning the people who slept. Like I think that that was, it wasn't the issue obviously. It wasn't that he like slept with people. It was that he was then being like disrespectful in the way that he spoke about them. Right. So when we left the next day, I remember that my roommates who I'd been staying with the ones who had defended Manuel, they seemed really different. I had spent the night elsewhere.

Like, I think that I had like stayed with a friend or something because they were partying in a room. And when I got back, the room was trashed. Like there was a layer of water on the ground. there were like, what are they called, like, cue tips and paper towels or toilet paper, like, littering the floor. I remember there was like a broken pair of heels in the floor. And I was embarrassed because it was my room and I felt like we're leaving it this way and somebody's going to have to clean it up. And when they were leaving, I, like, picked up the heels and I was like, you forgot these. And she was kind of like, oh, thanks.

And they seemed really kind of, like, distant. and I think I said something like, guys, even if we don't have to clean this up, like somebody has to clean this up. Like we shouldn't leave it so trashed. And they were like, yeah, you're right, sorry, sorry. And just kind of like rushed out. And I, the reason that I have that memory is because what I know now about who he was and what would happen when people partied alone with him, I just really wish that I was like

more kind to them, like that I was maybe more sympathetic or like asked them if something had happened. So on the way home, Manuel sat next to me on the bus. He was kind of like annoying me the whole way home. I go by my middle name, which is Chavon, but then my first name is Mary. So usually if I'm friends with somebody,

I'll tell them that my name is Chavon. And I didn't want to be his friend, so he just called me Mary. And he was like poking me, and he kept saying my name over and over and over and over. He kept being like, Mary, Mary. And I remember that I said, I was talking about my family was going to come to visit.

And I was asking for tips, like things to do around Seville. And he started joking, I'm like uncomfortable even like talking about this way. He started joking saying like, well, never mind. I don't know if I even want to like talk about that for it. Yeah, well, he was saying like, he was making comments about like, oh, I know your daddy has money. Like I can tell. And I remember that I just I just remember feeling really like physically uncomfortable around him. So he annoyed me the whole way home.

And then It just sounds like Tui Just didn't have a comfortable presence at all Yeah, no Like he seems just like he would corner you And make, like say things and do things To make you feel the most uncomfortable That he could make you feel

Yeah, that's a good way to phrase it That's a good way to kind of like sum it up Yeah I'm sure in one way or another Everybody's felt that way from somebody You know at some point that like you just It's like that got feeling You're just like get me out of here

I'm like this So my family came to visit Seville. And I remember that my dad had like, when he met my host mom, he like took off his hat and he had practiced how to say in Spanish, thank you for taking care of my daughter so that she would understand it. And I kind of like I knew that they worried about me. But at 20 years old, like I already considered myself an adult. I was kind of like, they don't need to worry about me. Like, I've got it all figured out. And then when I was compiling information about this, I wrote an article about it later.

And when I was going back and looking at old photos, I just couldn't get over like how little I looked, like how young I was. And how that contrasted with what I thought in my head about how like, oh, I'm all grown up. And even not even just the way you look, but like when we look back at pictures or memories, it's like I remember my mindset back then. and it was very different than my mom. Even like, I don't even think it's in each thing. I just think like the more experience and maturity level, like the older you get, even if it's just a year ago, like me a year ago, my mindsets were so different and way less mature than they are this year.

You know what it means? Like every year we're evolving and changing. Yeah. So it's like I can only imagine no one where, especially when you're 18, 19, 20, you're like, oh, I know everything. Yeah, I was like nobody needs to worry about me. Like nothing, whatever happened to me. Yeah.

In general, I think people don't ever, no one, I don't think most of the time thinks that anything's going to happen or they don't really think the worst. Yeah. And then I looked back and I'm like, oh, I was so vulnerable. Like I was just in this different, in this, a completely different country. And this was a guy, like, we didn't see that vulnerability in ourselves, but he saw it in us. Yeah. And that was exactly what he took advantage of.

So the last night of my family's visit was the night that Lauren passed away. So my family left. I said goodbye to them in the airport. And then I got an email from the CIA program with the subject line, terrible news. And then in the email, they explained that someone in our program had died from a tragic accident. A friend of mine responded to the email and said, can I have more information? Like, what does that mean? and they said there was an accident, you know, basically just reiterated.

We can't give you any more information at this time. I kind of isolated myself after that because there was so, we just didn't know much. So we were all texting each other in the program saying if anybody had information, of course, like people started, were talking about it a lot, but I was just ordering food, kind of staying home, self-isolating a little bit. And then, so the way that the program worked, it was three months, and each month you could take like a different class. So I was taking the first month. I was taking all three like a different class, but most people would do like one month and then they would go home.

So because she died at the end of the month, a lot of the people who knew her or who knew about the incident and Manuel and all of that, they were already home. And there were a few of us who stayed behind. and we would try to tell people just be careful about discover excursions. So as we started like talking to each other and learning more, I kind of start to get more details. So the official story was that it was the night of her 21st birthday. She went out, she got drunk, and then she fell from a balcony. And so it was just painted as like a tragic accident that happens with. a, you know, drunk college kid.

These things happen, but nobody's to blame. But then there were other details about it that kind of gave me pause. When she fell, she was in her underwear. She had been separated from her friends. A lot of her friends were now kind of clamming up and not really saying what happened on that night. And the apartment she fell from was Manuel's apartment. And she was with Manuel that night. So they did a memorial service for her.

I kind of learned more about her. She also went to Penn State. We had a lot of mutual friends. She played French horn. She was really beautiful, like a really beautiful girl. I remember just looking at her photo and kind of sitting through the whole memorial service and thinking, like, oh, my God, that so easily could have been me. Right. Like she, I feel like when somebody in like a program like that or something like that passes away, it's almost like when you're on the street and you like narrowly avoid getting hit by a bus and you just feel like wash past and you kind of have that feeling of like, oh, that was really close.

Like that one was really close to me. So the rumors were that people couldn't share more details because there was an investigation going on supposedly against Manuel. And because she was at his apartment, that was one of the things that was strange about it as well. So I was talking about it a little bit, kind of asking questions, of course, like trying to figure out what happened. And then there was another girl in the program. I'll call her Melissa. She, according to rumors, was hooking up with one of the guys who worked for Manuel. So she came to me after class one time and she said, hey, you went on that like Discover Excursions trip to Portugal, right?

and I said, yeah. And she was like, don't tell CIE that you went with Manuel. And I was like, wait, Manuel isn't associated with CIE. And she was like, no, no, no, he just like does his own thing. And I was like, why would I not be allowed to tell them that I went with Manuel? And she said, oh, you know, like, we just don't want people to start asking questions. And so I kind of tried to press her, but I got the impression that she was kind of relaying this message without even really knowing why. So she kind of rushed out and avoided the conversation.

So then there was one night when I was with some friends. It was actually my friend, I'll call her Amaya, who messaged CIA and asked for more details. I was sitting with her the one night. We were kind of having red wine with like a small group and people were talking about what happened with Lauren. And she said, you know, I didn't believe for a second that that. that girl's death was an accident. And I remember at the time I was like flushed and it was hot and I remember I smacked the table and I was like, thank you so much. I didn't know if her death was an accident, but I was just so relieved to have somebody who was kind of putting words to how bizarre the situation was and who was acknowledging that there was something strange about it when before

that I felt like we almost were like so hushed about it. We didn't want to acknowledge that it was strange. So when she said that, I felt like more empowered to talk about it. And I started telling people, stay away from Manuel, stay away from these trips. I don't know what's going on with him, but something is off. And then a friend of mine from back home at Penn State, message me on Facebook, and she said, Lauren's mom wants to talk to you. So her name was Carrie. And why do you think her mom came to you? I think that she was looking for more information, kind of from anyone who would give it. Okay. And I think that she knew that I was on this trip. Um, And I was just speaking about it.

And so I guess that through mutual friends, it got to somebody who got to somebody that I was on the trip and maybe that I had gone with Manuel to Portugal as well. So I texted her, of course, like offered my condolences. She asked me about CIE. She asked me about studying. And then she said, what do you know about Manu White?

I said he was creepy. I told her everything I knew. I told her about the trips. and she told me Lauren also called Manu Creepy. Like that was how she described him in messages. And then she messaged me and she said, I asked her kind of about if there was anything going on with like the investigation into her death.

And she said, I got a written sheet with notes from students. Almost all said, sorry for your loss. Weird, cold, even from girls, friends. the friends have been aligning stories and clammed up like Lauren was nobody sickening. And that was her words. I do kind of want to portray her in her words without giving the impression that I always condone what she said. Because I don't know what happened to the girls on that night. I don't know how they've been traumatized or controlled.

And those would be the girls that you were talking about when you handed the heels and you were saying about. Oh, no. These were different girls who were with Lauren on the night that she passed. Okay. that were her friends. Yeah. Okay. So at this point, we didn't really, she, all we knew was that on her 21st birthday,

she went out with friends. And then later in the night, she fell from a balcony and as a result of which, she passed away. And we, she was in like an internship program and I was taking classes. So we were in like slightly different classes. And I will say that like the girls who were with her on that night, have later opened up the girls who were with her on that night, have later, like, shared more information, even on, like, there was a podcast that came out, and I really commend them for that.

Like, I think that it must have just been such a traumatic night. I can't even imagine it. So I'm really glad that they're speaking about it. But I do think that this more than, I don't want this to give the impression that these girls did something wrong. I think that it should more speak to kind of how desperate Carrie was. for information, even the fact that she was coming to me, who, like, was only really, like, peripherally related to the, to the whole thing.

So when she ended the conversation, she said, all I want is the truth. If you think of anything, please let me know. This has been a nightmare. She messaged me a few more times, but I had kind of, I had already told her everything that I knew. Like, I couldn't, you know, you can't, like, convict someone of murder just because he, like, gave you a bad feeling.

Yeah. So I didn't, and I didn't want to, I didn't want to elaborate beyond what I knew. So I went back to State College, Pennsylvania, which is where Penn State is for my third year. And Carrie said, now that you're back, she asked if she could buy me lunch. I was a little bit uncomfortable with like going to lunch with her because I had already kind of told her everything that I knew. and she said so I kind of reluctantly

accepted that we could get a coffee near my house she I think that it's kind of what I mentioned I think the reason that I went was because I thought if she's talking to me she must be desperate so

when she came to meet up with me I was waiting for her kind of working on my laptop and when she came in I was just struck by the sight of her. It was like this, it was like her grief was, was a physical burden. Like she, she had an oxygen tank with her. She was really pale. She was having trouble walking, having trouble breathing. But I could still see that she looked like Lauren. Like I could still see Lauren's pretty features like on her face, even though she was so unhealthy. So when she sat down, I asked her about Lauren. I learned that Lauren was an only child. I asked her a little bit

about what Lauren was like, about her personality. I asked her if it was difficult for her to be at Penn State. She said that it was actually kind of comforting in a way because she liked to walk around the campus and kind of imagine Lauren walking there and what she might have been thinking about when she did that. She showed me photos of Lauren when she was a little girl and she told me about like signs that she got from Lauren maybe like in a butterfly or she said the one time that she was just feeling like she was at rock bottom. She said Lauren, if you're here, please show yourself to me. And then lights in her tea cabinet turned on. So then she asked me about rumors, like if there's anything else that I knew. Like please tell me if there's anything else you

know about Manuel White. And I just kind of told her again everything that I had said before. And then I said, I mean, anything else, like it was the only thing that we knew were rumors. Like, we were kind of kept in the dark. And then her energy changed. And she was like, rumors. What were rumors? What did you hear? And I was like, no, no, no.

I mean, there were just like, there's rumors. I don't want to say anything that isn't true. Like, I don't want to confirm anything that isn't true. And she was like, but what did you hear? What did you hear? And I said, I kind of realized, I felt cornered and I realized that she wasn't going to stop asking for information. So I said, I heard that when she fell, she was naked.

and she immediately just got disappointed. And I kind of had this sinking feeling and I was like, I'm so sorry. Like I wish that I could tell you more. Like I wish that I had what you were looking for. And then she said, it's just so difficult to know what you know as a mother and not be able to like move forward with it. And then she told me about messages that she got from. from Lauren before Lauren died.

So, again, this is just what I heard from Carrie. Like, I'm representing her in her words. I haven't, like, backed this up with other sources. But she told me that when Lauren went to end of the world with her friend, Manuel became obsessed with her friend. And he was messaging her all the time and calling her all the time. And this was on the same Portugal trip that I was on. And then afterwards, Lauren told him to back on.

off or kind of told him to like take it easy or something like that. And then it got to the point where she messaged someone and her mom found these texts after she passed. She messaged somebody and she said, I'm afraid he's going to do something to me about Manuel. So after everything happened, after I met with Carrie, I felt really kind of heavy about it because people who were close to her were quiet about it. So I was kind of worried that me talking about it, that I would get things wrong. Or I think my biggest concern was that it would be triggering. Like if I, if I posted about it or if I got to somebody that I was talking about it, then somebody who was closer with her would have to like relive this trauma all over again. And so I was really

fearful of that. So I did tell the story a lot, especially when I met young women who traveled. But I didn't tell it on social media. I didn't tell it publicly. Um, okay, so we'll fast forward a little bit. Um, in 2017, I graduated from school, graduated from undergrad. I worked for a little while. I got certified as, um, an English teacher. And in 2018, I got a job teaching on the Galapagos Islands off the coast of Ecuador for about a year. Um, so before I went, um, my, my best friend lives in New York. So I went to stay with him, um, before flying out of JFK. And we were kind of like celebrating to like have a trip before. I started this new job. And someone who I had spoken to about the story, the night before I left, they messaged me on Facebook. And she messaged me something and she said, I'm sorry that this is incredibly dark, but the first thing I remembered was the story you told me about the girl who passed away the summer we were in Seville. Do you think there's a correlation? This has me so shaken up. And she sent me a video to, I think it was the Today Show with Megan Kelly. And the title of the

video was young woman alleges she was raped by tour director on overseas trip. So it's an interview with a young woman named Gabrielle Vega, and she was talking about discover excursions, and then she showed a photo of the man who I knew is Manuel White. And when I saw his photo, just like my throat originally, like immediately tensed. I remember my friend was sitting near me, and I started yelling at the phone, like, oh my God, that's him, that's him. I knew him as Manuel White. His real name was Manuel Blancovela.

He was really, I guess, like not creative because he just translated his last name to English and then that was his big name. So on this, Megan Kelly today, on the show, the young woman explained that, so Gabriel Vega studied abroad when she was 19 years old. In Spain, she went on a trip to Morocco

with Discover excursions in November, 2013. He told them that it was dangerous at night, so stay with me in the hotel. He invited them to an after-party. He poured them drinks. He put a drug in her drink. Then at night, she kind of like woke up and was stumbling, incoherent, and he raped her. He abused her. It was a very, very violent attack to say that without going into, without going into the details too much. But she said she's 100% sure she knows that she was raped. She remembers it. And she could even just tell from her body the next day what had happened. She had bruises on her eyes, bruises on her knees. She went back to school. She told one girl who was staying with her. And she said,

it wasn't like, oh, somebody might have crossed a line. I had this weird situation. It was like, no, I was raped. What do I do? And another girl in the program told her, this is something that you need to get over. Like there's something that you need to move on from. Like things happen. You were drinking with him.

Kind of like just dismissed it. So I think she kind of decided like, I'm just going to try to like move past this. But then she started experiencing really severe PTSD symptoms. And she didn't tell her parents. she was at school kind of trying to study. But one of the symptoms of her PTSD is she would go into these sort of like fugue states. So where she would not have any memory, even though she was completely sober.

And the one time she woke up without any memory and she was on the floor and she was holding a knife. And she was having a lot of suicidal ideations. So she decided, like I need to tell my parents. So she told her mom. And they said, she told, I think her mom and dad. And they told her to come home. So she dropped out of school and went back to live with them and heal. And then she ended up going back to school, was talking to a therapist, kind of working through it privately with her family.

And then she messaged there was an art exhibit at her school. And they said it was some sort of art exhibit, like submit like a story that happened to you and I'm going to use it. Like her friend was putting on an art exhibit. I'll use the audio that you wrote. And she said, well, I had something crazy happen to me. So she told the story of her assault and submitted it to her friend. And then her friend called her and she said, I'm so sorry for what happened to you. I had no idea.

And then she said, this happened to my friend. Was his name Manuel? And she realized, oh, my God, if in my immediate circle there's already one victim. Like if I've told such a minimal amount of people and we've already gotten in touch with a victim, how many people are out there? How many people has he assaulted? So she, when it happened to her, she didn't report it to the police. But there were two other girls who came on the show, the Megan Kelly Today Show, who did report it to the police.

They were also attacked by him. They managed to escape because there were two of them and one of them threw the door open. And she said, everybody can hear you. Everybody can see what you're doing. And that was when he kind of like released them because he was holding onto them and trying to attack them. And even when that happened, they went the two girls. went running to their friends some other some guys on the trip and they were sobbing crying they said what had happened and the guys went to confront Manuel and they said um

what what did you do to them and he was just saying uh they wanted it they came on to me so this is what this is what the girls talk about on the Megyn Kelly show um the next day Manuel disappeared but they reported everything to the police so this was I think two years after I was there. So they filed a police report saying we were sexually assaulted by this guy. And when the police came to meet up with them, the policeman yelled at them for wasting his time. He was basically said kind of like, this isn't bad enough to warrant you calling a police officer. So they reported everything, but then nothing happened after that.

So it is like on the books that this guy is a rapist. And he still had a business after that. Like he continued hurting people after that. So after this show, I added Gabrielle on Facebook, Gabriel Vega, the first woman who came forward, I feel like any time that something like this happens, anytime there's a predator who has a lot of victims, a lot of the people who people talk about on your show, I feel like they keep getting away with it until they do it like one time to the wrong person. And that person is like, I'm going to be the one who stops this. And for us, that person was Gabriel Vega. Like, she was the one who stood up and was like, and she wasn't even, he accused her afterwards of being, like, fame seeking, which is like, he's not famous, but he accused

her afterwards of being fame seeking. And I think that it's pretty obvious that she didn't say anything about it until she realized that there were other victims. Right. And I think that that it's kind of sad for us sometimes that we kind of wake up when we realize that it's happening to other people. We realize just how bad it is. Right.

Like, it's not enough that it just. if it would have just happened to you. So I had her on Facebook after I saw this video, and she shared not long after on Facebook that since the Today Show posted the story about it, more than 50 women had contacted her and had been assaulted by her. And it was the same guy. Like he was exposed as a serial rapist.

Because they brought attention to it, Discover excursions closed. Thank God. And then it looks like his process was he moved around Spain's study abroad programs. He was a travel guide. He hired young men who worked with him kind of to be like his bait. And that was like in our case, that was Ignacio.

And they got jobs with CIEE as tour guides. Or then there were also cases where I know that like with FSU, he came to their study abroad program and gave them a presentation about like, this is Discover excursions, this is what we do. So it was like a whole program that he basically made just to. rape girls. Yeah. And feed them alcohol and whatever else.

And he intentionally gained access to women who are vulnerable and far from home. Right. And he would encourage us to drink excessively. And then when that wasn't enough, he used date rape jugs. And he would rape women when they were incoherent. And all of his victims have like very similar stories. It would be like, I had one glass of champagne and then I woke up the next day, like, bloody and beaten. And I know that it was like in his bed.

Right. And for some reason, he only really. did it to Americans. I think as far as I know, it seems like he really focused on like American study abroad programs. I think because they were probably the most vulnerable. Like, I feel like he could give them information and make them feel like, well, you need me to feel safe in these other countries. So it's like, you know what I mean?

Yeah. I have a couple of theories about it. I think we were far from home. Like if he was with somebody from like Belgium or something like that, then they wouldn't be as far from home. And they might have a little bit more context about like how to report a rape like in the EU. we were just kind of like clueless. Like we didn't know how to report anything like that.

We didn't know how to talk about it. Like a lot of people didn't even really have like the words for what happened to them. Like it was just so violent. And I think that we also, my one friend was saying last night, like there is it with our university culture. Like a lot of it is built around like just partying and like having a good time and kind of like letting loose. And like I definitely partook in that. I'm not criticizing that at all, but I do think it was something that he took advantage of. Absolutely.

So if you're watching and you have any information about him or if you were attacked by him, assaulted by him, if you knew him and have a story that's similar to these, if this is sounding familiar, his name is Manuel Blancovela. Gabrielle made an email where you can send her information. There are multiple court cases going on right now. so please send it to D.E. Survivors Speak Up at gmail.com. And we'll link it below too. Okay, cool. I'm not sure if I should mention, I guess I can mention the court cases. But the important part is just that people, if you have any information, like if you're feeling alone and you went through something like this, D.E. Survivors speak up.

So is he in prison right now or no? So he is not in jail. Okay. jump forward a little bit to tell you to answer that it seems like he he has multiple criminal cases against him he was ordered to pay about 74,000 euros to Lauren's family I think for something like negligence he's on a no-fly list his business is closed but he is free like he's not in jail okay he should definitely be in jail like he's a really really dangerous person and he's probably still victimizing people because they're because he's not in jail right and then there and i feel like

people like that they can always find a way around things um have there been any theories that have come out of what happened to Lauren that night uh yeah so i sent after i saw the video um i sent it to carrie as soon as i saw it uh Lauren's mom and she said that she had already seen it she said she was talking to Gabrielle um and then this time she wrote me he killed my daughter she's not on this earth because of Manu she didn't do anything to deserve all this so she pretty wholeheartedly believed like this is the man who killed my daughter and also why would she be naked if she thought he was creepy yeah like it just doesn't I'll go a little bit I'll go a little bit more into detail about that later just from things that I've learned um like do they do you know if they found

any like drugs or anything in our system like they they did a toxicology report but we don't know if they tested for date rape drugs or if they just tested for like party drugs right or like to see if like she was consuming drugs herself. Her alcohol blood level was described as nearly comatose. And he was completely sober. Which is just bizarre. I know. Like that is so bizarre.

But just like that in and of itself is like a red flag. Doesn't even make sense. You wouldn't even do that with your friends. Like why would one friend be extremely drunk and one sober? That sounds like a terrible time if you ask me. I'll share a little bit more about that. I just want to make sure that I don't miss anything. So as soon as that happened, kind of in a rush,

as soon as I saw the video, I wrote out what I knew about Lauren and what I had talked to about Carrie and I was going to post it on Facebook and I took a screenshot and I sent it to her and I said, can I post this? Are you comfortable with me posting this about your daughter? Just with all the information that I've shared with you today

basically, but like summarized. And she said, yes, please share it. But, like, first, let's set up a phone call because there were things that she knew, that she wasn't letting on to me that she knew. And she wanted to, like, clarify more details before I posted it just so that we could get, like, the, get, I guess, just all the context that we needed. So I said, yeah, like, we'll talk on the phone. Let me know when time works.

And then I went to go to bed. I was flying out the next morning to go to Quito, Ecuador. And then it's the middle of the night and like my head starts going. I start feeling like this is a really vulnerable story. I don't know. I'm a little bit embarrassed to like share something so personal, like on social media. I'm not the only one involved. So I kind of got cold feet.

And I remember like I texted her in the middle of the night kind of with my phone. And I said that I was getting cold feet. Like I said that I was anxious. She said, I really want you to post it. I think that the way that you described it was, was like well put. And she said, I said, I'm sorry. Like, it just makes me anxious. I don't know if I want to share something so personal.

This guy is still out there. And she said that she's basically disappointed, but she understood. I didn't reply for a little while. And then she messaged me again and she asked me about my travels, a little context for, like, what was going on in my life when she was messaging me about my travels. I was in Quito, Ecuador for a month, dealing with a lot of bureaucratic things because the Galapagos are their national park. So to work there, you have to get a lot of like clearances. So I was there in Quito kind of getting all my clearances, doing interviews. And then I went to the Galapagos.

And when I got to the Galapagos, I didn't have an internet connection except for in the school where I worked. We had kind of like a slow internet connection. My family had gone through a scary illness. around like 2016 and I was feeling kind of like burnt out by my life in the U.S. and I just kind of checked out. Like I was reading a lot, spending a lot of time in nature. I meant to get back to Carrie. But I never got the chance.

And then, or because of the mindset that I was in at the time. And then when I checked to see her again, I saw that she had passed away. Oh, wow. So she died to be with her daughter. I think that she died from a broken heart. Like I really think that she died from grief. So at that point, I years later decided to write an article about it now that I kind of have the hindsight to look back on it. And when I was compiling information to put together, I found the court documents.

So the court documents said that she went out with her friends on the night of her 21st birthday. they passed around a bottle of vodka. This is when they said she was borderline comatose. She took her clothes off to get into a jacuzzi. This is what Manuel said. The jacuzzi didn't have any water in it. So I don't know why that happened. And then according to the court documents,

the friend who Lauren was with initiated foreplay with him with Manuel. So like took him away. and then when they came back, Lauren was gone. They said that she stumbled and she fell off the roof. Like she must have just fallen where there was not a balcony. But in more recent months, I've learned a few more details about those court documents. This podcast from WB-B-E-Z Chicago called Motive in season two, a journalist named Candice Mattel Khan really just did an excellent job,

like compiling information about this. she talked to a lot of the people who are involved. And so in that podcast, she interviews the girl who was with Lauren that night. The girl says that night I was drunk to the point of blackout and then also because she saw Lauren, she was traumatized by it. So there are a lot of things that she doesn't remember, but she remembers enough to know that the court documents were not entirely accurate. So the court documents, they took, the girl who was with Lauren, they took her statement.

the night that it happened, like right after she saw Lauren die and she was still extremely drunk. They never called her back and asked for more details. So question, did she watch her fall and die? Or they claim that they came back and she was already dead? They claimed that they came back and she was gone. They looked over the balcony and saw that she had fallen. Okay. And...

Did the girl say, if she was dead? she was with that guy the whole night? She said, so Lauren was with a group of friends. They met Manuel when they were out, like, at a bar. And then that one other girl who I'm, I don't want to use her name just because I want to keep it private, but her and Lauren went back to with Manuel, to Manuel's apartment. And when Manuel gave his statement to the police, they kind of like took his word over what the girl was saying or anyone else was saying.

So him saying, oh, she came on to me. Like she took me away from Lauren. That's the same language that we heard him use before when he was speaking about those two girls who came forward to Megan Kelly, who said that when they flung the door open and they said, everybody can see you. And then the men came to confront him. He said, no, they came on to me. So then he gave his statement to the police and he said, the police report is based pretty much just on what Manuel said. And he said, oh, she, I'm assuming that he was the one who said, oh, she took me away to initiate four plays. she came on to me.

She came forward later and said on this podcast, I had no interest in him romantically. Like, I had no reason to initiate foreplay with him. Like, I don't think that's true at all. She also has said that when they were going down the stairs or after Lauren passed away, she remembers that he said to her, hey, what happened here tonight is going to be our secret, okay?

We're not going to tell anybody. And other than that, she says that, there's just like a lot she doesn't remember. I mean like God, poor thing. Like she was probably so traumatized by everything that happened. So, um, I think that it, it just seems like beyond that she only knows enough to know that like the court documents are not accurate. It seems like they just took his word for it. Also in that podcast, they interview somebody who works in front of his house who said that a few hours after he saw Lauren's body, a few hours after Lauren passed, um, he went and like got breakfast and was completely normal and calm, like just completely like went about

his life. Meanwhile, this girl who was with her and the other girls who involved, the friends were with her that night were, like, completely lost. There was another friend who was with her that night who said on the podcast that they were drinking with Manuel, and she, Lauren, turned to her friend and said something like, he gives me a weird feeling. She said basically that she wasn't comfortable around Manuel, which is another reason why I find it strange. she would get naked. That she would get naked alone in his apartment or that even that she would be going back with him unless he was like pushing her in the same way.

So there are just a lot of details about the story that are very strange. And then they only interviewed the girl that night. They should have probably gotten a statement from her later. But they said that it would delay the investigation because I don't know. I guess she had already gone back to the U.S. And I feel like there's a chance to like, you know how when you're super. drunk, at least this happens for me, like you might wake up and not remember things, but then throughout the day or throughout like time, you kind of get, not flashbacks,

but you remember certain things that the next day you didn't remember immediately. But I'm sure it can be confusing too because like you look back and you're like, wait, did that actually happen? I was drunk. I don't know. Can I trust myself? Like, yeah. And especially since they only took his word, it probably made her feel so discredited

of like what she actually, like what's true and what's not because it's like who's going to trust somebody that was drunk. Yeah, exactly. And then they only talk to her. when she was drunk. Right. And I also commend her for coming forward to this podcast afterwards and sharing more details. Yeah. And it was the type, and I completely understand her not wanting to talk about it. I mean, it's such, it's such a heavy story. Like, it's hard to talk about. Even when I was like researching this, just like putting it together, there's times where I

would just have to take a break from looking at it because it, because it's so sad. Like I just, she was so young. Well, I do want to mention too. Not only that. that, but I think there's so many different ways you can look at this. One, I think it's amazing that it's almost like you've become the voice for Lauren and for her family, which I think, you know, in a way I feel like I can see how that would make you feel overwhelmed and uncomfortable because it wasn't, you know, your exact experience and it wasn't your story necessarily to tell. But at the same time, it's like you were there and you met this man that has done this to so many people. And I feel like not enough people would step in your shoes and be like, you know what,

like there's no one that's going to compile all this information and get it out there and bring that awareness. And I feel like you took that stand and did that. And that's so important to do. I don't think that I would have continued talking about it. I put it together in an article. And then after I posted it, I think the people who I was most concerned about were Lauren's friends and family. Because I was so, I was just so worried that they would be like, who's this girl? Right. Like you don't want to overstep or something. Exactly. And I really don't want that to be the way that we remember Lauren because she had such a great life and it seems like she had so many friends before her passing. And there are friends who are still grieving her and who

miss her so much. And like I'm staying here with my best friend Kate in Baltimore. And just the thought of like losing someone who you're that close with who Lauren's best friend described her platonic soulmate in this in this podcast. it's a lot it's it's it's almost too much to comprehend i mean um after i posted the story i felt really kind of like a drift like did i did i do the wrong thing and talking about this and then somebody shared the story in um like in uh in memory of laura bajara group facebook group or something like that and i got a few messages from her friends um and i was so moved by by them because they were just very supportive

and they said thank you so much for sharing this because we didn't know what happened to her. Like we didn't know what happened to Lauren. We just know that she went to Spain and then there was an accident and then she didn't come home. And I think that I was, after I posted, I felt really like alone and confused and maybe kind of a drift.

And then it wasn't just them. It was like a lot of people who read the story started messaging me and saying something similar happened to me. or like thank you for for just like sharing the information um and that that brought me a lot more comfort um even though like i said it was it was hard to do and i'm sure that it's um hard to like hard to listen to it too so really like thank you so much for like even just sitting down and listening to it and like being such a good listener of course um and like thank you to anybody who's listening

to it because I think that this guy really thrived in a culture of silence. Like I think that he got away with what he got away with because we didn't want to talk about it. And I think that we have to really kind of like form those networks of talking to each other and saying like, hey, this guy's creepy. There's something wrong. He might have done something terrible. I think to you, like, you know, like I said, you, I think the feeling that you had as well

of what you were talking about of like that was a close one. You know, like when you said like with a bus or something I'm just hitting you, it's like, I think that's why it hits home with you as well and why you feel it as much as you do because you were so close to the situation. And at the end of the day, it could have been you. It could have been anybody on that trip. And that's a very scary traumatic thing to hold on to and to know that you could have been in that position.

But I think too, something to give and I'll give you credit for it if you don't want to to give it to yourself. But I think that it takes a lot to share your own story, but also, like what we were talking about on the phone, like to share your own story, but to also share somebody else's in a way, but in a way that you're almost not walking on eggshells, but trying to do it in the most respectful and informational way where you're not like taking away from anything or you're not adding to it without, you know what I mean, without changing it. And I think that it's so important because you are spreading awareness. And obviously, like we are saying too, you can see movies and documentaries of women and even

men that go on trips and in foreign countries and horrible things happen when they don't come back. Or if they do come back, they're traumatized because of what's happened to them. And I feel like it's too oftentimes that these things are just in movies and it's not enough like on podcasts or in interviews where like this is very real. and you don't have to be scared to go away, but you should be so cautious and so aware and stick with your groups and not be so trusting even if somebody makes it seem that way and maybe two question things.

You know what I mean? Like now it's like obviously if you ever go away again, you're going to have a completely different mindset than you did when you went on that trip. And it's not even really to instill fear, but reality, you know, but I give you so much credit for being the voice, I feel like, of so many people. And it's not a bad thing at all. I don't think you go about about it in such a careful, respectful way that it's like it doesn't seem like you're overstepping or walking on anyone's toes or sharing too much of anyone's story.

I feel like you're you've literally just become this voice of like I was here at the same time that this happened. I met this person. He's a terrible person. But also like for anyone out there, if it's happened to you, come forward if you feel comfortable. But also if it hasn't, be aware. And I think that's such an important voice to have because it's not, I feel like there's this misconception that people think it has to happen to you directly to be able to speak on something,

but that's not the case. Like, you've almost become this, like, speaker to help people and to bring awareness to such a bad thing. I also really want to clarify that I'm not the only one. I think that the hero of this story in large part really is Gabrielle Vega and the other women who came forward because when she did that, there was another one, one of his victims. and to the women who have come forward about this, like, thank you so much.

You have really, nobody wants to like relive the worst night of their life over and over again in the public eye. So what you've been doing is so, so powerful. And I will say that the one woman who was one of his victims, when Gabrielle came forward and she was on the Today Show, one of his victims who used to work for him. And I don't love the word victim, but what, she, she used to work for him and she was assaulted by him.

And she posted the video, the Today Show video on her story, and she tagged Manuel Blanco in it. And she said he called her and was like, what are you doing? This is so bad for me. This is terrible for my image. He was like, you need to be on my side with this. And he said, I don't remember anything. Like, I don't, I haven't done this to anybody. I don't remember a thing.

and then she said you know exactly what you did i am not going to be on your side and she left it at that she hung up on him and then she's been coming forward and she's been one of the people who has been talking about it yeah so i mean those girls like i just like i'm just in awe of them like the way that they've been able to talk about this like the charisma that they've been able to talk about it with like the the way that they've been able to kind of like speak truth to power has just been really inspiring to watch And also it's scary to do the fact that he isn't in jail and to come forward. It's like that can be a scary thing to do.

Well, that was one of the things when I was posting the article. My dad kind of in a moment was like, I don't know if you should talk about this, mostly because he was nervous that Manuel Blanco Vela was still out there. And I got nervous again kind of the same way that I got cold feet with Carrie. And I emailed Gabriel Vega about it. And Gabriel Vega said, that she had felt that way before, too, when she was talking about her story. And she told me, let the truth be the light that guides you.

Yeah. And she said, what you wrote was truthful. You're not saying something wrong if what you're saying is true. Right. So she encouraged me to post it. I'm so grateful that she did because of the people who messaged me afterwards and said, and said that it was beneficial for them because either they had been through something similar or because they didn't know what had happened to Lauren on that night.

So there were a couple things about the, you asked me if she had, if Lauren had, was tested for date rape drugs. Yeah. So the toxicology report, these are all things that I know from that podcast in Chicago, the toxicology report didn't cover date rape drugs, but there were, this podcast seemed to insinuate that she definitely was or could have been drug. There were a few things that could make one think that she could have been.

So Lauren's one friend who was with her that night, who she later got separated from, said that Lauren turned to her at one point and said she got weird vibes from Menwell. So like you said, it would be strange that she would then go home with him and drink with him. One of her other friends said that that night Lauren didn't seem like herself. And that's exactly the same language that Gabrielle Vega used when she was on the state rape drug that he used. She said, I didn't feel like myself. And then another thing his victims describe is not having control over their bodies. Like they said that they were being assaulted and they were willing their arm to like come up and like push him away and they couldn't move it. Right. And so I wonder

if she could have like lost control of her body in some way. But I really want to, after I met with Carrie, I want this to be what we remember about Lauren and what we see. speak about when we speak about her. After I met Carrie, she messaged me. I had asked her about Lauren. And she said, when you asked about Lauren, I missed a key point. She was really funny.

And she always wanted to people feel, she always wanted people to feel included. And she sometimes did that with humor. And it was like such a mundane detail, but like, floored me. Like, you can tell that it's her mom who's it. Yeah. Like you can tell it's her mom who um who loved her so much and wanted her to be remembered that way. And I think too that you probably provided her with some ounce of comfort, you know,

like even just talking to her when you did and her having someone, because you guys were the same age, right? Or at least around the same age. Yeah, she was she turned 21 there. I was 21. I went, we had a lot in common. Yeah. So I think too like that probably gave her mom some sort of comfort to like have you to talk to even if to you it kind of might have seemed like she just was trying to get more details and whatever else like I feel like that I think people do that sometimes you know what I mean insightful I didn't think about it that way that was like the first thing that came to mind like when you said that she wanted to like get lunch with you and not keep asking you I think I do think obviously I do think that there was a part of her that wanted more details and just wanted to

get to the bottom of it but I also do think that because she was an only child she was probably looking for that comfort too and like talking to someone else that might have seen her daughter known her daughter in some way or you know what I mean that's just what I I get that feeling and I really want that to be like the way that we remember her yeah because just like all all the I mean nobody wants to be remembered for their worst night um and so when we hold on to that memory of her like I want that to be really what what we hold on to um and a lot of people who are talking about her said the same thing they said that she was really funny. Even after she passed and I was looking at like her Facebook, we had tons of mutual friends. She seemed to have a ton of friends. Like she wanted to,

she seemed like this warm person who wanted people to feel included. And so I really hope that when we remember her, we remember her with her mom's words, which are so loving. Yeah. And not the actions of people who treated her like a thing, like who treated her like something that she could just be disposed of or people who treated her just like this like a drunken idiot um because she was she was a person and like her mom said like her mom said goodbye to her in an airport um so that's a big part the reason why it's like a tough story yeah it's hard and it's heartbreaking too you know the the whole situation it's like you can't like you were saying before it's so you can't really even imagine you know what i mean it's hard

So unfortunately Manuel was not the first predator that I met and he would not be the last. So he's not unique. So I think that study abroad program should keep that in mind. Yeah. Like if there's something that's a takeaway from the story, like something that I would like to see change. I mean, the best way to prevent sexual assault, in my opinion, is to make sure that when it does happen, there are public and notable punishment. Yeah. So, oh, yeah, there was one other thing that, in that podcast that they mentioned,

there was a Spanish journalist who kind of pressed Manuel on, or no, there's a Spanish journalist who pressed the judge who had questioned Manuel about Lauren. And his response was that Manuel didn't want to hook up with Lauren. He wanted to hook up with her friend. So it was essentially like what happened to Lauren wasn't relevant to him. And the journalist was like, how is that related? Right. That was one thing that I forgot to mention.

There was one thing that I wanted to say, like, for study abroad programs, like I said, people like Manuel are not unique, unfortunately. So for study abroad programs, I think some measures that they could put in place. One is that they should not allow, like, third-party travel agencies to advertise or even, like, meet with their students in, like, with the majority of the group. group just because they haven't been vetted in the same way. I think that when sexual assault reports come their way, they should take it very seriously and advocate for the survivors because it sounds like the two girls who did report their assault by Manuel. It didn't really sound to me like they had an advocate there with them who spoke the

language and could say, this is what happened. And the bystander talk that I mentioned that we had orientation, that was a good start. But I think that there should also be talks about what to do if you are assaulted. Like if something does happen, I think that maybe people are afraid to talk about that because they don't want to, they don't want to scare people away from studying abroad. Like you come to orientation for study abroad. And all they're talking about is sexual assault. And you think maybe I shouldn't go.

But just the basic things, because what happened to a lot of these girls, they knew that they had been raped. It wasn't like, oh, somebody crossed the line last night. It was like, oh, no, that was definitely. that was definitely rape. What do I do? And they didn't really know what to do next. So things like don't shower, things like get a rape kit. I think in general, there needs to be more things put in place to make people feel comfortable enough and safe enough to come forward. Because I think there's so many aspects that people, they question themselves or they don't feel comfortable to come forward or like, who do I talk to,

who do I even go to? Like, I feel like there needs to be more secured things like that put into place. Yeah, I mean, it's such a different crime. I feel like it almost has to be treated with such sensitivity. Yeah. And there was a on this, this podcast where they talk about Manuel, they spoke to somebody who said, if you're robbed while you're drunk, nobody's going to say that you weren't robbed because you were drunk or that you deserved it because you were drunk. But then if somebody is sexually assaulted when they're drunk, then it is sometimes one of the first things that's brought up.

Like, well, why were you drunk? Why are you with him? Why did you go back with him? So I think that we really need to like advocate for survivors and have people who can help survivors advocate for themselves when they're in a foreign country, like if they're on a study abroad trip. A lot of the time when you're traveling, you might not even know to dial 911. 911 is different in different countries. So they could say, here's a number that you can call, maybe like a hotline, let us know and let them know, like, we'll be on your side. Like, if you

come to us, we'll listen to you and we'll make sure that you're treated with respect. So public consequences for perpetrators, rapists are cowards. They're, They choose vulnerable victims. They won't do it if they know they won't get away with it. So make sure that they don't get away with it, even just like on a legal and government level. And I also wanted to say, you know, if you're watching this, don't let this deter you from traveling. I've actually lived outside of the U.S. for most of my adult life. And I do want to clarify that like everywhere I go, any country, I meet people who are good people who will take care of me, who will treat me like family.

who will welcome me into their home. So even though Manuel Blanco Vela, he's not unique, but he is definitely outnumbered. I actually had a question about the podcast that I was wondering. Yes. It seems like at a certain point, you started interviewing like mostly women. Was that like a conscious decision?

Or is it just happened naturally? It just happened. And I always see comments of people saying, we want more men. And I would love more men on the show and more like male perspective. I actually do have a couple male guests coming on. I think I actually think my next one might be, I think my next couple might be male guests, which I'm really excited for. But no, it kind of just happened. And I think, too, the majority of my

audience is female. And I don't mind it. I don't mind. I just like, for me, it's the diversity. And that's why, like, the show is open to any subject, any experience, any, that's why it's like when people ask me, what kind of guess I have on. It's hard to describe because I do have a lot of tragic and traumatic stories and experiences on. But then I try to throw these ones in like my confessions of a dominatrix and keep it so that you have that option to watch. Still these draw dropping stories, but it gives some more, I feel like, lightheartedness to the show as well. But no, it's kind of formed that way.

And I mean, I love it. I'm all for women. I think it's fun. And I think to it, sometimes it can be easier and it can feel more comfortable when it is, you know, like two women speaking to each other. And it's like it removes that kind of like judgment or that feeling like you can't say what you want to say. But I also think that it makes me happy that I've created a platform that I feel like women feel like women feel like women and safe to come on and talk about such serious things that have happened in their lives. But it kind of just formed its own path that way.

Yeah. I think that I definitely, I don't want to speak for all women. I know that I've definitely like fallen into the trap of seeing other women and and maybe feeling jealous or competitive or thinking like or kind of. comparing myself to them. And I think that stories like this really highlight, the reason I ask is because I do think that stories like this really highlight the importance of like a sisterhood. Yeah.

And of believing somebody when they come to you. And I feel like the show also takes, it removes all that external stuff. And it shows that no matter like your age, where you are in life, what you look like, anything like this can happen to somebody. 100%. And I feel like it's, it kind of just provides a safe place. talk about it. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when I was watching because one of the things that I feel like I've learned from your show is that a lot of the time, maybe that person who you're

looking at and you're thinking and you're feeling competitive or feeling jealous, they could have been through, you know, these horrible things that people come to talk on, talk about. And there was probably a portion of their life where really just all they needed was support. And when that time comes, you need to be ready to give that support instead of maybe like pushing it away, I guess. Because I really think that the first girl

who Gabrielle spoke with, who she told her I was raped, what do I do? If she had said, okay, let's go get a rape kit. Okay, let's go tell the police. I don't know what would have happened next, but at least she would have more concrete evidence against him and it could have helped.

Right. Like there's a lot that we don't know, but it could have put her in a better position. So that was the one thing I wanted to mention about it. But I did want to say, I think that I said this before. But yeah, it's a hard story to tell. So I'm sorry if it's been hard to listen to. No, I think I, like I said, I really can't stress enough. I feel like it's something that it's a story that brings a lot of awareness.

And that's a really important thing. Well, I mean, thank you so much for listening to it. Of course. And also, I mean, like, spread the word. Like, we are trying, you know, if you know anything about him, if you know people who had any contact with him, I'll give the email to Dev, but it was DE Survivor Speak Up. Yeah, and everything I told her, we're going to link it all in the description too. So check it out there.

Yeah, it's a type of thing that needs to get out there. For sure, absolutely. But no, you, like I said, you did incredible for so many different reasons. Honestly, you're such a good storyteller as well. It did incredible just like listening. No, like I told you like. And asking follow-ups and. Yeah.

And just sitting here and being able to, it's almost like you painted such a great picture of everything. And I really love to how you, it's almost like in memory of Lauren as well, which I think is so sweet of you. And because it's like not, you didn't necessarily have to be her close friend. I think that it's so important and special that you are painting a picture for Lauren as well. And it's not just like, oh, this happened to this girl. It's like, this is who she was. We should remember her for who she was, but not what happened to her. But also, like I said, to speak up and bring awareness and make other people feel comfortable enough to come up and talk about what's happened to them.

Because like you said, unless people speak up, a lot of times these people won't get caught and it won't stop. And it shouldn't be this pattern that keeps happening to anybody. Yeah. So I was I was so shocked when I posted that article, just like on my press. blog and like by by the how supportive people were I think that maybe I'm used to the internet just being such a cruel place and it can it really can be yeah so so that when people responded in like that supportive way I was just so so so so grateful to them so um and really grateful to you as well for like listening to it with so much grace and um and even just like inviting me on and thank you

for wanting to come on seriously I really really appreciate it you did incredible um was there anything else I think I got through all my notes that's everything okay amazing well thank you really did such a good job and I appreciate you coming out here. I can relax. You crushed it. Yes.