We're All Insane - My Dad Murdered My Mom and Sister

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

#foryou #podcast #sponsored #ad SPONSORED BY: BIOPTIMIZERS | https://bioptimizers.com/insane CODE INSANE for 15% off CURED | https://www.curednutrition.com/insane CODE INSANE Stack my 20% off code INSANE on the 10% off Best Seller Bundle! JASPER | https://jaspr.co CODE INSANE for $300 off In June 2014, Michelle’s dad murdered her mom and sister. She was at work when it happened, receiving a text from her father to come home, but she never made it—she was told to go to the police station, where she found out what he’d done. Michelle recounts everything that followed—starting with the funeral, how the family turned on her, and ending with a court battle that dragged on for nearly a decade. Michelle’s Links: Books: Motherless Daughters by Hope Edelman https://www.amazon.com/Motherless-Daughters-Legacy-Loss-Anniversary/dp/0738217735 Therapy Needs: https://mhanational.org/resources/finding-therapy/ 00:00:00 What questions do people ask most after a shocking family tragedy?00:01:06 Why is it so difficult to see red flags in those closest to us?00:02:22 How do unlikely beginnings shape long-term relationships?00:04:05 What impact does moving across countries have on a family’s story?00:06:20 Why do some struggles inside a marriage stay hidden for years?00:08:25 How does a child’s illness affect the entire family dynamic?00:10:12 What pressures can a demanding job put on someone in midlife?00:12:19 Why can happy milestones sometimes add unexpected stress?00:13:59 How does financial uncertainty trigger fear and instability?00:15:46 What small moments become haunting in hindsight?00:18:09 Why do urgent phone calls often carry unspoken dread?00:20:31 How does a single drive home change the course of life forever?00:23:10 Why does hearing the truth from officials feel like a movie scene?00:26:12 How can one night rewrite every relationship you have?00:30:07 What is it like to deliver devastating news to loved ones?00:33:26 Why does grief become more real when spoken out loud?00:36:40 How do cultural and family divides complicate mourning?00:39:22 What happens when you’re forced to plan a double funeral?00:42:00 Why do unanswered questions linger even after the truth is known?00:44:55 How do long legal battles reopen wounds for survivors?00:46:59 What does it mean to lose not just loved ones, but a home too?00:48:50 How do life milestones reveal the depth of missing parents?00:52:11 Why can grief resurface in unexpected, everyday triggers?00:56:07 How do traumatic events affect marriages and communication?01:00:01 Why are support systems so vital during times of trauma?01:03:15 How can reconnecting with family help in the healing journey?01:05:22 In what ways can tragedy transform someone’s identity forever? Topics: Family Tragedy, Survival, Loss, Betrayal, Trauma, Healing If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Michelle. And in June of 2014, my dad murdered my mom. and my sister. So that one is. And a lot of people have, I would like to start with like three most commonly asked questions since it's been 11 years. And I'll answer these like throughout, but like the first one was where was I?

Because it was my mom and my sister. I was living at home at the time. But I was working. It's just a simple answer. I was not home. So for like any true crime people, I don't have any like insights. because I was about 30 miles away. Okay.

And then I had another major one, which was, was your father abusive? And the answer is no. This was absolutely shocking to anybody's nervous system. I'm sure. Yeah, so he was not, I mean, I look at it and I'm like, you know, he grew up in the 60s. So spankings were very common. So, like, I know people would say, oh, that's abusive. But, I mean, I look at it and I'm like, well, that's just how he was raised and I was raised.

And it wasn't uncalled for. Like, I misbehaved. And that was the punishment. That was the punishment. That was the consequence. And then the last question was, and I still don't have an answer to this one, is the I don't know, is do you think, and I'll go, I kind of. go more into it, but like, do you think he called me home to finish the job would be the quote? Okay.

I don't have an answer. I don't know. None of us know. Right. We're all leaning towards no, but even to this day, he says he doesn't know. Okay. So that's kind of the, like, beginning of it. Yeah, the rundown.

All right, so then I guess start wherever it begins for you guys. So kind of give some background. Yes. My dad was a. Navy veteran. He served the Navy for 20 years. He and one of the stations he moved to Korea in like the mid-80s. And that's where he met my mom. My mom is a Korean immigrant. They got married. They met my mom is very not was very non like romantic. So I don't have like, but basically my dad just wanted to meet somebody who could show him around Korea.

And what people don't know his soul is actually an army base. But because of what he did in the Navy, he was able to kind of bring that to the army base. And he met my mom's best friend who was seeing somebody. And so she introduced my mom to my dad. And my mom, you know, like my mom's like a big haggler and stuff like that. So she kind of, you know, showed him around and things like that. And I guess that's how the rest is history. The rest is history.

So they got married in 1985 at like the embassy over there in Korea. Funny enough, it was a Valentine's Day. They were a Valentine's Day. But my mom goes, it was just the day they had open. Right. Yeah. That is funny. And it's so funny.

Because my parents, my mom's family met my dad before. My dad's family never met, didn't meet my mom until after they were married. Got it. Okay. Because it was overseas and anything like that. So after they were married, they did come to the States and that's when my mom finally met my dad's side of the family. And it was like one of my dad's leaves. So it was like a short visit.

And two years later, they had me. So are you the oldest? I am the oldest. Now there's just two of us. Got it. My sister and I are about 10 years apart. My mom did have trouble conceiving. Like she had trouble conceiving me, which really was a short, because she was so young 20s, like a year and a half is trouble.

But like, you know, that's not too long. And then 10 years later, when we came back to the States, we did live overseas. for the first eight years of my life. Okay. And then we came back to the States in 96. My sister was born at 97. And so that's why there's that big age gap. I do have some memories of Korea, but, like, I was so young.

Yeah. I moved here. I was eight going on nine. Third grade? Okay. I know grade. I was eight going on nine, I believe. and yeah, that sounds right.

So 96. Yeah, that's really how we ended up into the States. And that's where my dad chose to retire, I think, in 99. Okay. And that's why we're also, he was stationed in the Great Lakes Naval Base, which is over there in Illinois. Got it. And that's kind of why we stayed where I stayed. There's not really much to say about.

Growing up, like I said, my dad was very, I mean, I had strict parents, I guess, in terms of parents, but they also weren't strict. Yeah. And like, I guess the main point of that, too, is to tell everybody that there really weren't any, I guess you could say red flags. No, there's none. We had a normal life. We moved here.

My dad asked around, like, of places to, like, for schools because, you know, his knowledge, of Great Lakes was a little bit in the 80s between moving to Japan. So he doesn't know how much it's changed in like, what is it, 10, 15 years. Yeah. So he asked people and we found a place. We bought a house, you know, my parents bought a house, had my sister. And their relationship was good. Your parents?

Yeah. From what you saw. From what I saw. I did learn after the fact now there was no abuse or anything. like that, but there was a little bit of like a time where my mom was very unhappy. Okay. And that was like, I was in my teens. Okay.

I think my dad was kind of going through a tough time. One of his best friends was diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. And he was, he was going to try a surgery to see if it would. save his life or at least extend his lifespan or anything like that. And, you know, my dad, I will say he was very, he was a hermit. I guess that could be a red flag. But, you know, when he makes friends, he, he's like me. He makes those relationships.

And he's very loyal to them. And so they're, you know, finding out one of his really good friends was possibly going to die really affected him and I mean he snapped at me he was snippy with my mom he was very closed off I mean it was a short time

from my memories it was probably about six months and so my mom I guess my mom's best friend did tell me that my mom was contemplating potentially divorcing my dad or like starting the separation process but that never happened. Okay. But overall, I, you know, normal American family. And even then, like, I know

I saw some of the news videos when it came out around us. And people were like, well, from the outside, they looked like a normal American family, but you don't know what goes on inside the house. We really were what you see, what you saw on the outside was the inside, like, what on inside the house. There was no hidden skeletons, which is why it was. shocking. So shocking. And then the added stress, my sister was 10.

She was diagnosed with charkomery tooth, which is a neuromuscular disorder. And that also took a little bit of a toll on my parents, just mentally. I think all of us that took it on mentally because we had a lot going on. But

you know, navigating through that was also stressful. My dad, when he retired, he did a couple of jobs, but eventually became a contractor through the Great Lakes Naval Base. And that's kind of where he stayed from the early 2000s till everything happened. And then really a lot of the things kind of took face in 2014. I want to say, so I did move out and lived on my own for a little bit. Didn't work out. So I did have to move back in. And the goal was to move there for like a year, kind of reconfigure things. So it was like March of 2014. I moved back home. And, you know,

everything was fine. I did what I promised to do. I was like, I'm not just going to sit and do nothing. Like, I'll do my own laundry. I'll help with the cooking. I'll help with my sister. you know, like I'll do what I can. I was 2014, so 25 at the time. And I just remembered, you know, like, I was,

that I wanted to do what I could to help out my parents because that's a huge help in your mid-20s having to move back in. And then somewhere, I want to say, within the month of me moving back in, my dad got a promotion at work. Um, his boss retired. And my dad was kind of like next in line if he wanted the position or they were going to do an outside hire.

And my dad being in his mid, or early, early, early 50s, he's like, yeah, I don't want to work under somebody else that's younger than me that thinks they can do that. So he took the position. But with that position was a lot more responsibility, a lot more on call, a lot more long, hours and things like that and when you're in your 50s you're slowing you should be slowing down not picking up and then yeah so you mean you could see he was stressed and everything like that but we were trying you know it was still early we're like okay we're trying to figure it out my mom worked overnight for target um you know I was at home so I was like I can pick up whatever slack is needed but I also worked too so I didn't have control over my hours I didn't have a steady

schedule. I worked for a retailer as well. So, I mean, but we, I would, you know, we did what we couldn't. Yeah. One positive that did happen during that time is I did get engaged. My husband to my husband and. Wow. So he was around for all of this. He was around for all of this. That'll be a very important thing. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of remember as I kind of go on. Okay. But he was. He knew my, he knew my family. We started dating in 2012. And so May of 2014, he proposed. It was exciting.

He, and I'll tell you, like, I had such a good relationship with my father. He did go to my dad and ask for my dad's blessing. He even said, he goes, it wouldn't have stopped me if he said no, but I just felt respectful. Right, out of respect. Out of respect. He was like, oh, you know, he. He even had the ring. He showed my dad the ring.

So the weekend before we were going on our trip, my dad met with him. And I was like, oh, so that's why he gave me an extra long hug. He's like, you have the best time. And like gave me like this big hug. So he knew it was coming. And it was happening that weekend. So yeah, I came home from my little trip and I was engaged. You know, everything seemed normal.

but about three days after I went home, I came home from work. I had an earlier shift that day, and my dad was home. And he usually didn't come home until probably about like 5.30 with this new position, and he was home.

He was sitting on the couch. I was like, hey, everything okay? Because usually if I work at the early shift, I'd beat you home. And he goes, I quit my job. He goes, I couldn't take it. anymore. I quit. And gave him a hug. My mom, you know, was like, we'll figure it out and things like that. My dad took like a day or two to kind of like settle in that he quit. Because that was a big deal.

You know, my dad, being of the older generation, like you worked, you worked until you retired. You either need, you work until you're fired or you retire, you know, or you have to have a backup. He had no backup. And I think that's when like the spiraling started was he has. So my sister at that time was 17. And by that point, she was fully wheelchair bound. So he's like, I have a child who has medical needs. Now she was only physically, she was only physically disabled. She wasn't, You know, there was nothing. She was planning on going to college. She, um, she kind of, she had her plan and everything.

She was a regular teenager. She just got around in a scooter. That's really all my sister. That's, that's the only difference of her. Got it. Um, but, you know, he goes, I don't know if, like, I was a factor at that time because I not planned on asking my parents to pay for anything. My husband and I were going to figure out how to pay for our wedding because my sister was

college bound and I knew that was a big deal. But I think like I'm engaged. There's that expense. My sister who's got a physical disability. There's that. And, you know, his wife who does work and she's fine, like she's overall healthy, nothing wrong. But, you know, she doesn't, she worked at Target.

It's not like she was making bank or anything like that. and so he started putting out applications to other jobs, but I think he wasn't getting phone calls right as soon as he thought he should. And so, like, things spiraled. The morning of, so I still kind of remember that morning. It was a Sunday, June 8th, 2014, woke up. I had to work that day, but, you know, I was going to go to church with my family, or my mom and my sister, my dad didn't go with us.

And I do remember the only weird thing is my dad was asking me about money. Like, how much do you make? Are you able to pay your own, like, bills? And I think he was, I don't know if he was trying to see if, like, I could financially help the house or, like, what. But, like, he, I remember that question was weird. But I didn't think much of it because, I mean, he did just, just quit his job. So maybe, you know, I have no idea. My mom, sister, and I all went to church as usual. And after church, I went off to work and they went home. So I briefly talked to my sister

like via text. She had cracked her phone screen. And she was like, mom's not going to replace it. And I was like, let me see if I can find somebody who has, it was Sprint at the time, who has a Sprint-enabled phone that can get you through until we can either get your screen fixed or whatever. And I remember sending her text to say, hey, I have a friend. It's not an iPhone. It's on a touchscreen, but it's one of those like little, the sidekick's iPhones. And she didn't respond, but I was like, oh, maybe she's playing her.

her video games or something like that. So she'll respond when she does. While I was at work, I was at work probably about an hour and a half by that point is when I got a text from my dad. Usually what happens is the first time when he needs something, he'll like send like a jumble of letters. And I was like, hey, what's up? He goes, can you talk, can you call?

Can you call me? I said, yeah, give me five minutes. So I was like I was like a shift manager at my job. So I let my cashier know. I was like, hey, I have to go take this phone call. I will be back. And I went and I called and I said, hey, what's up? And he goes, you need to come home now.

Why? What's wrong? What do you need? You just, you need to come home now. Okay, well, I have to get things figured out. But like give me, can you give me like 30 minutes, 40 minutes to like get settled here because manager on duty I had keys. Now luckily my cashier was also a shift manager so really I just needed to find he could just take over for me and I we just need to find a cashier.

It was like the longest 30 minutes of phone calls I had to make. My store manager couldn't come because he had plans that night. I was like well okay if so and so and so and so can come can you like approve overtime because I have to go and he's like yeah if if they go overtime we'll cover their overtime that's not a problem I was like okay so trying to figure out who to call we did eventually find someone but it took me a while while I'm panicking I'm texting my fiancee and I was like hey I know you're with your best friend it says like birthday get together is there any way you can get to my house I'm having trouble like getting my shift covered.

Is there any way you can get there? He's like, yeah, I'm not close to my car, but like I can get to my car and I'll be there in like 40 minutes. Okay. I texted my dad back. I was like, hey, can my fiance come to the house? And this is me assuming like maybe something happened with my mom. Okay. So you, your gut feeling was something was wrong, but you didn't.

know what? No. Okay. I didn't know what. I didn't know if it was like my dad was having another heart issue and maybe he, my mom was driving. So she, and she was terrible at texting. Okay. But something was wrong and they didn't want to pack up my sister to like get this figured out. And she's 17 and she's pretty good. If someone could be there within an hour, that would be fine. So he's like, yeah, yeah, the door will be unlocked. I don't know about you. I'm Anna Garcia, a host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar.

Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to True Crime News available now wherever you get your podcast. Thank you, but oftentimes,

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And I will head out because I was also 30 miles away. So in Chicagoland area, 30 miles is like, it's like an almost an hour drive no matter the time of day. So I get in my car. And I just remember I started driving said, okay, I told my fiance, I'm like, I'm in the car. I'm like, I'm in the car, I'm driving. And he goes, okay, yeah, me too. I'll probably beat you there, but I'll let you know. I don't know why traffic was so bad on a Sunday, but it was bad for me trying to get there.

All of a sudden, I think my dad panicked in the time frame of he thought my dad, and apparently he had called somewhere in that time frame. he decided to call 911. He told them what he did. And he said, and I plan on, I plan on killing myself. So, of course, a cop got there. And my dad's sitting in our basement, and he had slid his wrists. And the bodies were downstairs as well in the basement.

And so that's when kind of my... my phone started chaotically blowing up. My fiancé did get there a little way before I did. I said traffic is worse than I thought. But I'm at least 20 minutes out at that point. He's like, yeah, just get here. Don't worry. Just get here.

He did get to the scene before I did. There was, by the time he got there, there was already like a crowd. The crime scene tape was up and around my house. and he said he must have missed my dad by about 10 minutes being escorted out in cuffs. But he's like, just get here. And I said, okay, what's going on? I was like, is everything good? He's like, just get here.

It's okay. Just get here. Because I'm behind the wheel of a car. So he's trying not to panic me. Then I have two neighbors that had my number. And they're like, where are you? said, I'm on my way home. What's going on?

And they're like, you just need to get here. I said, I'm still 20 minutes away. I can't get here. I can't make the road closer. I'm still 20 minutes away. And they're like, okay, well, you need to get here now. I said, I'm on my way. So I'm calling.

I shouldn't be doing this. But like, I'm so panicked. So I call him back on speakerphone. And I'm like, what's going on? My neighbors are blowing up my phone. phone, he goes, just get here, just get here. That's all you need to know. I said, no, you got to tell me. He's like, no, you just get here. So he knew that I knew something was wrong. So it was in the drive home. That's when I, something wasn't right. I just didn't know what because no one's telling me anything.

They just get home. One big important part of this is I never got home. my fiance did flag down a police officer, any police officer. He got to the front where they kind of have it roped off. He flagged them down. He said, hey, that's my fiance's house. She's on her way here.

I am panicked. What can I tell her when she gets here? The officer goes, he goes, hold on, let me let me see what to do. So he goes, finds some, must have been like a supervisor or somebody. It comes back. He goes, your fiance is on our way. Okay, if you can call her, reroute her to the local police station.

Okay. That's it? He goes, yeah, just reroute her to the local police station. Okay. So he called me back and he goes, I was, how close are you? And I said, well, I'm still in this area. I was probably 10 minutes away.

So I was close to the house. It was like in between the house and where the police station would be. And he goes, I just talked to somebody. You need to go to the police station. Why? What's going on? I'll meet you there. I'm going to get in my car right now.

And I will meet you there. Just get there. So I reread it myself. I was like, okay, well, you know, he was there. So he, I'll do them. So I think that's when the like panic was setting in was like, but I didn't know what. I still didn't know what. We, we met there.

I got there probably five or ten, five minutes before he did. I said, what did you see? He goes, he didn't want to break the news to me. He's so sweet. He didn't want to break it to me. And he goes, I don't know. We'll just wait. So I, we go down because it's after hours, it's in the evening.

And we go to the window. And I was like, hi. I was instruct. And he, he actually took over. He goes, hi, we were instructed to come here from somebody who was at the house. And they're like, okay, they called over and they put us in separate rooms. I was like, what's going on? Why are we in separate rooms?

And I was like, I don't know what I can do. I mean, I was able to kind of get out because I had to use the bathroom. That's in everything. But we're in separate rooms and trying to figure it out. My neighbor texted me and she goes, where are you? I said, well, I was instructed to go to the police station. But I've been sitting here like half an hour. I don't know what's going on.

I love this neighbor. She's so nice. I have nothing negative to say about her. So she goes, hold on. Let me figure something out. So she's this like African American southern from Alabama debutante. And she goes, she's what she told me. She goes, I go, excuse me, young man.

And so she found like a police officer with a clipboard. and she goes the young lady who lives at this house was sent to go to the police station she has been there 30 minutes no one has told her what's going on someone needs to get there

because this is not okay so they've got somebody down and within five minutes two guys apparently got in their car and started heading over and she goes she goes I saw some gentlemen get in their car

they should be heading your way and I was like oh thank you what's going on she goes I wasn't just they'll let you know everything. Why is nobody telling me? Why is nobody telling me? Like I'm panicking. I'm in this like room at the police station that has like a mirror.

So all I have to do is look at myself. I did have my phone. So like I knew I wasn't in trouble. Yeah. And I'm like, where am I? What am I supposed to do? And that's when. So I told my.

fiance I said and we're in separate rooms so I'm like are we allowed to sit together they wanted to keep us separate because and I think he wanted to stay separate because he didn't want to tell me so like no one wanted to tell me anything until like an official person came so the detectives the two detectives came and they finally showed up and probably like 10 minutes later um And one guy came down and I said, I stood up and I was like, hi, sir, you know, can you tell me what's going on? He goes, first I have a couple of questions. And he started asking me questions, like, was your father abusive?

Can you tell me, was your father acting differently? And I said, what's going on? Why are you asking these questions? He goes, I'm almost done and I'll let you know. I think my fiance was getting similar questions. is, you know, was her father abusive? Was he this? Was he that?

Do you know? Did you see him today? I said, well, yeah, I live at that house. I saw him. I said he asked a weird question. He's been kind of, and I gave the backstory about how he quit his job. And I think I forgot to add, he was going to the hospital. He thought it was hard, like, either like he was having a heart attack, but he was having

panic attacks. I said, I know for the past probably week, he's been at the hospital three times with cardiac issues, at least that's what they were telling us. And he goes, okay, so he wrote down some of the notes. And then he finally goes, still, like, it's like a movie in my brain. And he goes, I'm so sorry. Your mom and sister are dead. And we have your father in custody.

We have every reason to believe he did this. All I remember was screaming. What do you do? My husband, my fiance at the time, but my husband was in the next room, and he was just about to be told when he heard me scream. And he said that his detective just goes, her mom and sister are dead. Her dad is in custody.

He goes, okay, can I? I go with my fiance now because do you hear that? The rest of that night is a blur. I remember having to write a statement of what I can recollect. And then they let me leave my car because my no one was going to let me drive after finding that note. I in my house was a crime scene so I can't go home. So my fiance was like, you're coming home with me. Hopefully my mom is asleep. And because we were, you know, we just got engaged, so we were going to look into moving in together. But so we didn't have a house together.

He was at his house. I was at mine. He's like, hopefully my mom is asleep. And we'll just, we'll worry about a lot in the morning. I was like, I got to tell people. I can't wait a day because this is going to get released in 24 hours. I can't wait. I mean, things were already getting released.

They're like, oh, hey, you know, ABC Chicago was like, hey, there is crime activity at, like the this address like my not my exact address but like this block right here and I was like oh no so it's already getting released so I remember the first person I called was my grandmother so I do have to say my dad is one of seven my mom most of her family is overseas but I was like okay I got to start with the first person I can my grandma because I can't make seven phones. I can't make that many phone calls. It's one of seven plus three cousins plus an uncle.

So I just, I couldn't. Told my grandma. I still feel so bad to this day that I had to break the, but I was like, you know what? Let's tell her first. So I remember calling her and I was like, she was like, why are you calling this late? What's wrong?

And I was like, I don't know how to tell you this. She's like, Michelle, just tell me. Just tell me. And I said, my mom and sister are dead. And dad did it. And I remember telling her that. And I was like, I don't know how to tell everybody. It's just been such a long night.

And she goes, I got the family. You need to call your mom's sister and let her know. Because I don't have her phone number. And you need to call your sister's best. friend because she should find out from you, not from the news. So, you know, get in my, get in my fiance's car as we're driving. I'm making these phone calls and he's like, this is the worst. He told me, he goes, I hated hearing you make those phone calls.

I hated it. But he goes, I know you had to do it. And that's kind of like, as I was making those phone calls and saying it to everybody, it's kind of like the moment I knew my life was different. Yeah, it made it more real. It was very, like, saying it to the, hearing it from the police was real, but like saying it myself. Yeah. To them was like, this is actually happening.

So I did, I had to call her best friend. Didn't tell her what happened exactly. I just said that my sister is dead. I said I'm not ready to say what happened yet because it's I just found out and she's like but I will call her tomorrow and give her a little more details called my mom's sister there's a little bit of a language barrier there she does speak English but not very well so she's like so I had to like repeat myself to her like five times I was in like my my fiance's driveway.

When he went in, he goes, let me make sure my mom's not awake. He goes, she has to work early tomorrow, so hopefully she's not. So he goes in and she is awake. And she wasn't expecting him because he was supposed to be out late with his best friend. She's like, what's going on?

Crap, I have to tell her. So he sat down. And so here. she is freaking out. She's like, what's going on? Is it Michelle? What's, like, are you, did you, are you not engaged anymore? Like, her brain actually went to, like, we broke off the engagement.

And he told her what happened. And she's like, because my family is scattered all over. She was a huge support. You know, so she's like, it wasn't. even a question. She goes, you don't have to go back to your house once it's open. Again, you can stay here as long as you need. I'm not even, you don't have to find an apartment right away. Nothing. You can just stay here. And yeah, that's what led up to that night. Yeah, so that was crazy. But like, a lot of the things people don't realize when

you go through that. Because, you know, you read, I've watched all those, like, true crime and, like, you watch, like, you know, the podcast and stuff. And they talk about, like, what led up to that night and maybe a blip. So much happened after the fact. You know, first of all, I had to plan a funeral. Double funeral. Because it's my dad, it almost felt like my dad's side of the family weren't going to make me choose, but like my mom's sister was like, it's almost like it was my Korean side, the church, my mom's sister, my mom's best friend, and then there was my dad's side. And like, I was trying to split my time with trying to take care of them and everything and plan a funeral, double funeral and all of this.

and in that I really didn't get a chance. Like I got, I grieved that night, and then I had to go into, all right, what do I need to do mode? And on top of that, my phone would not stop blowing up. And I have a quick question. When, how long after this happened, did you speak to your dad? It took me, I want to say it took me to actually like, Now, I didn't see him in person for about a year.

Okay. But I sent him a letter. I'm trying to think. I want to say it was a couple months. Okay. And did you ever get an answer as to why? No. I've had to work with therapy on that one.

And I've kind of come to the decision that I don't think I want. I think I know why, but I don't. don't, it's not going to change anything to know why. He says he doesn't really remember that day. Did they do a psych evaluation? And what did it come back as? That he had, I can't remember what kind of episode, but some kind of psychotic episode and that he has anxiety and mass.

He was going through, like, part of that anxiety, he was having a depressive episode. At least that's what it came across. That's from what I was able to read. But yeah, he says he doesn't remember what happened or why, what made him do that. Does he seem or did he seem remorseful? Yes. I would say overall, at first he did. But three years later, he did.

try to do a post-conviction. So with the court stuff, that one actually, in terms of court and everything, he, so everything happened June 8th. So it was at the beginning of June. And then sometime in the next few weeks, he officially, like, put in his plea of not guilty. But he was, of course, not going to get out. Yeah. It was a $5 million bail.

So no one has 10%. The house isn't even worth that much, not that anybody would have done that. So he stayed in through the whole process. And then beginning of February of 2015, he officially took the plea of guilty but mentally ill. I did do a victim impact statement. I couldn't read it, though.

I just couldn't. So the assistant district attorney that was on that case read it for me. My dad did have a statement, but he was had to like, he said if he couldn't turn to face me, then he would just get that sent to me. I did have a overall, like, working relationship with both the ADA and the defense attorney, because I was in like that weird position of it was my mom and my sister, so the prosecution.

but I also like to know what's going on. So I talked to the defense attorney as well. And he gave me a note from my dad. Basically, it apologized for what he did to us and our family. He knows he can never, it's a rep, you know. Yeah. He can't take it back. And he says he takes full responsibility for his actions.

However, three years later, so in the state of Illinois, as long as you do it before the three years after the action, so you have 30 days to appeal your decision. He got past the 30 days. Then after that, it's called a post-conviction petition. and three years so that would have been February, early February 2018. He filed for a post-conviction petition. And that was to basically go back and try and get retried. And that was lengthy because of COVID.

And I mean, that opened up a whole slew of emotions right there because we were also going through we just at that point a month before lost our first child. And so I was already going through it mentally. Yes. How do you do that? And then I got all of a sudden one day, one evening got a phone call from the victim advocate. And that's who I kind of worked through the most during the initial court process.

And she called me with the ADA that was taking the case because the original one he left and went to private practice. So there was a new ADA. But the original one, the original lawyer, he was like, I'll give you all the information I can and help you out because he goes, I got to know her very well. So whatever you need, let me know. And so yeah, I got the. call that my dad had filed for a post-conviction petition. And so, and I would like, I like the, that, this particular ADA as well. He was very straightforward with me. He was like, this is going to be lengthy because there are three

phases of the post-conviction. The first you kind of meet and, you know, of course I'm going to fight, but like, this shouldn't be happening. Like, and I, I don't. And, I, But the second one is the decision to go to, like, the third part, which is bringing witnesses. Not me, but, like, people that worked with my dad around the time. So the two psychologists, the defense attorneys that were in charge of his case, the social worker, my father himself. And with that third process, it was to decide whether they would overturn his plea and go back to trial. August 2023. So that, the initial one, so he filed February 6th or 6th of 2018.

and we didn't get an answer until August of 2023. The judge did decide oh no, December of 2022 we got the decision through the county courthouse

and she decided not to overturn it. But of course you can appeal and then you can appeal 30 days. So he did go through the appellate court and then August of 2023, the appellate courts. made their decision to also agree with the district, the county. So, yeah, it was like nine, nine-ish years of dealing with that.

And I want to mention, too, you know, obviously the hardest part is that you lost your mom and your sister, you know, two innocent people. But you also lost your dad. I did. Yeah. I said that in my victim impact statement. I basically had a paragraph for each. You know, I was like, I lost my sister. I lost this person who was just starting her, like, you would think our age gap wouldn't have, like, cause sibling fights, but we fought, like, regular siblings.

About the time she turned, like, 14-5-15, it was like our relationship. turned. Like she started maturing and I was also maturing because I went from like my early 20s where I was very much very self like I just was pretty selfish. And I thought about myself and my wants. And you got my sister who has the physical disability and she's stubborn and everything. And somewhere like around 15 is like when our relationship. relationship really changed from like just sisters to where we kind of started forming a friendship. Um, did we still fight?

Yes. Absolutely. But I said that. I was like, you know, I didn't just lose a sister. I lost a front because, and I lost, she was just, she just finished her junior year. I said, we don't get to see who this amazing person would become. Like she is forever. 17.

Yeah. Like she saw on Facebook would have been her 10-year high school reunion. I'm like, I won't lie. And so did not sound creepy. Her best friend and I still follow each other. And I've kind of like followed up on a couple of the kids because I watched them grow up. Yeah. And I'm just like, it's, it's, I'm so happy to see them grow up and live their lives.

But it also breaks my heart because, you know, like, what would she be doing? Yeah. And like one of the girls, when my sister was in seventh grade and she had her like friend group and one of the girls was always in like whenever I chaperone, it was in the group that I chaperone a field trip with. And she's married and expecting her first. And I was like, you got one of the kids in our neighborhood, he's getting, he's either getting, I think he's getting married this fall.

He's in my sister, he's my sister's age. And then his sister, who's a couple years younger, she's just doing great things out in California. And it's just, it's so sad to, like, think about because I'm like, what would she be doing? Right. And I haven't said, I lost my mom. And I didn't realize how, like, impactful losing my mom.

would be until I got pregnant the first time. I lost my oldest. I was 22 weeks. And I remember, like, turning to my husband. And I said, like, I wish my mom were here. Because, like, who do you want when you, when you're sick and you don't feel good? Who do you want? You want your mom.

Even now my sister, my daughter, we got pregnant pretty quickly after that. My current daughter, like, anytime she's sick, I mean, my mother-in-law is fantastic. I can't, again, say anything terrible about her. But, like, when she's, you know, when she's really sick, I don't have my mom to turn to, right? And so, like, was it a couple months ago, she had this random allergic reaction. Like, her face, she luckily didn't swell shut. I would have immediately taken her to the ER. But her face was puffy.

And I'm like, I would have, you know, called my mother-in-law, but then I'm like, I really wish I had my mom. So, and you feel guilty about that because I'm like, I have this support, but, like, I want mine. And so you feel that. even watching my husband's sister and his step-sister both had their own moms. By the way, if you two are watching this, your moms did nothing wrong. I just want to put that out there. But like, so we were living with my mother-in-law at the time when my sister-in-law had her son. and I was watching, you know, his mom drop everything for her daughter and, like, see how much.

And it just was breaking my heart. And I didn't realize how jealous I would be. Like, I was jealous. Similarly, my husband's step-sister recently just had her son. And, you know, he came about six weeks early and everything. And so his stepmom, you know, she was telling, she's like, oh, I was doing this. And, you know, because she's got so much anxiety with a lot of, you know, especially with him coming early. And so, like, you know, three years later, like that same jealous monster was coming.

And I was like, God, I wish my mom were here. So I didn't realize, like, how much I was going to miss out on, you know, knew that not having my mom there on my wedding day and having kids was hard. It's like you didn't realize until then. And then I also lost my dad. Like I was, I said it in my victim impact statement. I'm a self-proclaimed daddy's little girl. He was, I mean, my husband went to my dad for his blessing.

When I had my first major heartbreak when my high school sweetheart ended our relationship, my dad was the one I turned to. And it was hard. And so not having him walk me down the aisle, I didn't get a father-daughter dance. I didn't get any of that. And it's been really difficult. And you sit there and I'm like, I can mentally go, yes, I'm happy for all of you that get that. But, you know, there's that jealousy that's always there no matter what when you watch it.

And so it's hard. And I did. I lost all three of them. and like a side note, I also lost our house. Like, that's the house. So again, my dad was in the military. I moved around every two to three years. Now we were overseas, but I moved around.

That was the house that was like the permanent home. Yeah. And I lost that too because I wasn't going to move back in there and just go about my regular day. I ended up selling it because, again, I'm not going to live there. I can't. So that was really, really difficult as well. And, yeah, just kind of going through all of that.

And then, yeah, I, you know, I don't have a lot to say about that. I did, you know, don't go to therapy right now because I seem, you know, but it's always there when I feel like I need to go back. but I worked on a lot of stuff in therapy. One was, you know, the first was just kind of going through the grief. And she was so great. I love this therapist. Can't say anything negative about her either.

But she helped me to realize, you know, everyone talks about like the five stages of grief to acceptance. But I'm just like, she goes, in a traumatic situation, it's not like that. It's not black and white. Yeah. She goes, you can kind of accept what happened, but still get angry. So there were times when, like, I felt like a lot of stuff was falling on me. And my mother-in-law, she had to do something with my sister-in-law.

And I don't have a ton of people to turn to, at least in my head, I feel like I don't. Because I feel like, I always feel like I'm a burden. which I know I'm not. You know, you feel that way. And so when you don't have that person to turn to, your mom, I got bad at my dad again. I'm like, if he didn't do this, I would have my support, I would have this.

And like, I get really frustrated. So I think, for example, my husband, he had a new job with a new schedule, and we had to figure stuff out. and I think my husband's mom was not able to take time off. I'm like, I don't have my mom. I would immediately have my mom help out, and I just didn't have that. Right.

And then I got frustrated and angry and upset. And similarly, like, I went and I got the job I have now, and we needed to figure something out in the in-between, because originally the job I had, I was a teacher's age. and it was perfect for my daughter's first year because I got off at like a little before 2.30. My husband started his shift at three. We were pretty local. So we were able to just pass off my daughter and no issues. But then I got the job I have now. I got off at four. And I'm trying, I'm like, we don't have, and I'm in an office now, I'm still local, but

There's that gap. There's a gap. And my husband's mom also worked till four. So it was just, it was a lot like, you know, it's little things to navigate. To navigate. And I'm just like, I don't have my wide support system that I used to have. And so that's, I'm still navigating that because I'm just, though now I work from home. So it's a little easier if something gets changed, I,

I can at least adjust and figure something out, and she's old enough to where she can entertain herself. But like before when I was in the office, and even though it was only like six weeks, it's been hard and stuff like that. So, yeah, losing them, even 11 years later, is still very impactful because it's what you want.

You want your family. where they're, you know, that's who you want to turn to. And to lose them in such a heartbreaking and traumatic way. Yeah. I think just makes it that much more confusing and frustrating. Yes. Because it's something that was so preventable. And you know that.

You know? Yeah. I think that that's what makes it like, that's where that anger comes from, I think. Absolutely. So she was very helpful in like, because when you hear about, the five steps to acceptance. You think like anytime you take a step back, you're back sliding. And she goes, no, it's not black and white.

It's not this. You're allowed to like accept but get angry. You're allowed to accept. And then something reminds you of them. You know, so like I still remember one of the breakdowns I had. It was just before the one year anniversary. I expected the one year to be hard. I expected first birthdays.

I expected all of that. this is the, and I look back and I was like, this was so dumb. But my family, we are White Sox fans. Go White Sox. And my mom's, I don't know if you've seen Friends, The List episode, my mom's guy was Paul Conerco. He was is the list. Like there was no other name. And so the day my sister was supposed to graduate high school.

was also the day they retired Paul Canerco. Like there was a whole like ceremony for him. Broke down. Like I was at work. And I don't know. It like hit me. It was a trigger. I don't know even what triggered it.

But like I ran to the back room bawling. Because I just. I couldn't. I couldn't take it anymore. And I just bawled. So that was, you know, I talked about that. therapy and I was like I broke down and she goes yeah you know a lot of us it was like mother's day wasn't as hard she goes because you expected it to be hard.

The things that are actually hard when you go through it. Yeah the firsts are hard. Yes, these are hard like certain days are hard but she goes it's like the little things that really get you. Like one of the days I finally decided I'm like I'm going to go to the Chicago. Botanic Gardens and I'm just going to go and enjoy and take it in. And it's really pretty. If you ever go to Chicago, I do recommend it if it's a nice day.

And the whole time I was enjoyed it, but I was like, my mom would have really enjoyed this. Currently, so, yes. So there's a lot of that. I think also because my husband was there, a lot of it. So a lot of people don't realize. So he was at the police station. He saw the scene of the crime. He saw the chaos.

He saw the body bags being taken out of the house. A lot of people, so like our first year of marriage was really hard. Because so many people told him, well, you can't say that. So he, you can't say that to Michelle. Because remember, she's going through. this and I think he often got forgotten about like he knew my family he liked my family you know he was welcome to my sister's hospital room when she had her spinal fusion um we went to six flags all the time all three of us well it also I think a traumatic event that would affect anybody

that was close yeah close to you saw parts of it he's and yeah he heard my scream. He goes, it's still every once in a while, like, enters his nightmares. It's heartbreaking. It is. It's so heartbreaking. And so it caused a lot of, like, he, I believe officially was diagnosed with generalized anxiety and PTSD. So, like, our first year of marriage, like, our communication was terrible because he was

told to not communicate. And he ended up. just getting really snippy and really passive-aggressive. And it was, you know, this is how I explained it to a lot of people. I have old husband who was so hard to talk to and deal with at times. And I know that sounds terrible because he's not, he was never a bad guy, but like he was very deflective. He was very defensive of himself.

Like I remember one time I even told him I said Hey I don't like that tone that you took with me He goes well I didn't yell at you I didn't do this I didn't call you names And he was very defensive Of like

The criticism And then more recently my husband He loves taking long walks And he's a very introverted person And that's how he recharges his social battery And then, so last year, he had a job that was just really bad for his mental health. The company was terrible. And so he was basically, like, any time he was not working, he was out on one of his, like, hour and a half, two-hour walks.

And I finally told him when he left that job, and I told him, I said, you know, our daughter is noticing you're not home. home because you're out on a walk, like she'll even say it. And, you know, I know you need a charge. I know it's nothing, but I also feel like, because sometimes what happens is we'll finish dinner, we'll clean up together. And you're like, okay, I'm going for a walk and out the door. Yeah. And I said, it's starting to kind of give me a complex that you don't want to be around me.

And he just goes, I didn't realize I was making you feel that way. I'm so sorry. Thanks for telling me. And like my husband, like we're going to celebrate. We're going to be 10 years married actually this Friday. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you. So like husband, even nine years ago could not have told him something like that.

Yeah. And so I think a lot of people don't realize like it, there was a lot that was affected. Yeah. By this. Our marriage was affected. You know, losing everybody. I will honestly say I start. cutting certain family members off even because it was just hard.

But recently, you know, we're kind of going through something. Nothing, no one's sick or anything, but we're kind of going through something slightly indirectly in our family. And I can't turn to my husband's mom for it. And I, so I actually ended up calling my aunt. And I was like, I forgot what it's like to have a village. And that was really nice. So I've been slowly, like, reconnecting.

it took a decade but I've been reconnecting with like old parts of myself but I've also like changed and that also makes me sad because my parents I feel like a lot of times did underestimate me in some

ways and I feel like I have come out on the other side a lot I'm very different now than I was even in college my best friend and I we were talking recently. We did room together in college.

At one point we had like one of those apartment suites and one of our roommates we had a conflict with. And myself, another roommate, and like in another roommate, we were quite the whole time and my best friend said everything we were saying. And she still, every once in a while, brings it up. And I'm like, I hate that about myself

because I'm not that. person anymore. Even when my one uncle screamed at me the day of the funeral, I was so silent about it. And I'm like, I hate thinking about that. I hate when that's brought up because I'm not that person anymore. But it was so, and it's sad because even though my dad's behind bars, he doesn't get to see this part of me that I've become. Like, I've really grown up.

And you have no relationship with him, I'm assuming. I have a mild relationship with him. I think what makes it hard, and I know a lot of people would probably, like, you know, keyboard warriors or anybody would say, like, I would never. But he's it when it comes to, like, that part of my life. That's all I have. I mean, I have my aunts and uncles, and I have the, you know, those people. But, like, you know, I see my husband with his dad. I see my husband with his mom and his sister.

And, you know, when you talk about, like, growing up, they're the ones that saw it all. Yeah. He's all I have. And so I call it like a arm's length relationship with him. So do you see him or is it just all over the phone? It's currently over like they just switched over, but it's like an email system. Okay. That they have.

I have talked to him on the phone. I have seen him one-on-one. Well, not one-on-one. We were in a room, but like with multiple people. But I saw him in person once. Okay. And that was what... How was that for you?

Hard. Yeah. Awkward, hard. I don't know. What do you say? Right. It's like, who is this person? It's hard.

I feel like it's hard to know. It is. It's confusing. It's hard to explain to people. But my father that's bitten in prison is not the father who raised me, who was part of my life for 26 years. Yeah, that makes sense. I have such good memories. You know, I have nothing but positive memories.

I don't say, you know, like, I can't pinpoint like, oh, this was, you know, negative. this was negative. Like, I think as a parent, we all try to figure out what we want to do that's right, that we liked what our parents did, and what we want to change. And every generation does that. And so that's, I'm not any different. But, like, I don't say, well, because he did this, it was such a bad childhood. Right.

Because he spaked me, I had a terrible father. No, I have, you know, I was a self-proclaimed daddy's girl. Now, did you ever ask for details? No. Okay. I know what he used. I do know my sister's last words. I saw what they looked like in the open casket with makeup.

That is all I need to know. Yeah. I don't think I could mentally see the crime scene footage. I don't think I could. I have my suspicions on how it happened. Yeah. And like I'm very, I would say like 90% sure it was my mom first and then my sister. I looks like he went from behind and like I said, I know what he used.

It was not a gun. It was they were, it was death by strangulation and affixiation. I know that's hard. And it does make you wonder, like you said, how people ask you why he asked you to come home. Like, you know, like was it because he wanted to do that to you or was it because he wanted me to find everything? Right. Like, right. Like you were that 911 call for him originally.

Right? You don't know. So one little piece of evidence that I forgot to add is he had a couple of these like little black cases. It had a letter to me. one of the news articles made it sound like I was a mistress, but I don't know why I did that. It was like the supposed Michelle. Right. Even though the letter said, your father, the note said your father is a failure at everything.

And a couple of things that were like for me. Like savings bonds were in there. I can't even remember everything that was in these little black things. So those were literally, so our house, we had the storm door and then we had the main door. Yeah. And he had it in between there. So the police officer that made it to the scene first saw those. And yeah.

So that's why that's been a question. Like, where were you? Well, do you think? We still don't know. My husband, he goes, he's like 80% sure. It was to have me find everything. but he's still like, we won't know. He has not seen my father in person since the plea, but that, you know, didn't talk to him or anything.

And, yeah, so that, you know, there's a lot of that. Do you find that it's been harder for you to get closure without having a reason why, or have you done a good job of kind of letting that aspect go? I think I've done a good job with letting that aspect go every once in a while. I do want to I'm like just curious yeah but then I kind of remind myself would and those are like I've worked on mantras in therapy like one of them would that change right anything right now well no would it change anything no because my mom and my sister and my dad are not here yeah and even if you like ran through every reason why it still doesn't even answer it you know what I mean like there is We have a bunch of theories. Like I said, my dad, he quit his job. And I think he, another thing I've learned about myself,

and I was actually pretty, my side of the family is our anxiety, I spiral. I go to worst case scenario for everything. And I'm like, what do I do? What do I this? I panic. And that's kind of the, I think, the anxiety space he started getting into, which is why he was having the panic attacks. learned it from my aunt. She goes, yeah, I do it too.

So I think it's like a, it looks like it's a trait on that side. But I've learned that. And so I've learned that when I get into that headspace, I'm like, no, one step at a time. Right. I've learned, yeah, I kind of move forward with the closure. I learn that, because also part of the spiraling is when I feel. feel like I lose control. Though, if I'm really, really bad, I start cleaning massively. And that's partially because when everything first happened, one of my aunts, her husband,

and my uncle, so two of my dad's siblings and then one uncle from marriage went to my parents' house and they were very nice to clean it up until I felt enough to where I finally felt comfortable to go there and start doing stuff myself because people can only be there for so long. I get it. Everyone has lives. After the cleaning day, he came and he told me, my aunt's husband was like, man, you had dishes in the sink and he told me, and like, he told me I'm sitting there and I'm like, why are you just? Do you think my mom expected? Right.

This to happen? Yeah. So here I am. Like, anytime I am super anxious, I clean. Yeah. Because I'm like, I do not want my husband and my daughter to have a comment like that happening to them. No, our house looks lived in. Right.

I have a six-year-old who plays with toys. And, you know, but, like, I make sure, like, every night my dishes are done and put away. My food is in the fridge. Like, I don't want, like, someone to come and judge them if something were ever to happen to me. So, like, I still do that, and I don't think that's going to stop. My best friend is so sweet with that. She goes, you just call me because I will come clean your house. So if someone comes over, they can't say anything.

That is funny. But that's kind of like the cleaning. Now it's wouldn't say it's obsessive-compulsive because my house, I just, I do the certain things to keep it in order because I can control it. So maybe it is mild. I don't know. I haven't been diagnosed with that yet. But like I just kind of, I make sure like when I close down,

our place at the end of the night. My dishes are done. Food is in the sink. Food, you know, like, I'll just kind of do a quick sweep of the floor. If there's stinky garbage, I'm going to take it up because I don't want to smell that either. But, like, that's kind of what I do. I just make sure.

And then the toys are at least somewhere because my husband does work evenings. So when he gets home, he's not going to trip over something. So that's, I mean, I feel like that's a basic cleanup of the house. but, you know, it's a way for me to kind of control my surroundings because otherwise I start to spiral. Right. And whatever works for you. It does. It's, it is very helpful to like take on a little piece of control. Yeah. And I have to say too, you know, hearing the way that you speak about your story and what happened, you do it with such grace and ease. And I say that because obviously you don't, what's happening on the inside, I'm sure is so much.

You are just, like, the way that you are able to tell your story, it's like you do it with so much strength. And that's very, that's incredible that you're able to do that. Thank you. If you would have talked to me even like eight years ago, that I did have a point where any time I talked to, my hands would shake. Like, I would literally, that was kind of my, my first therapy appointment. I remember my hands were like shaking.

And she goes, it's okay for you to shake. Just do it. It's okay. It's your body's resusc. It's a response to trauma, so we will work on it. And she goes, everything in steps. Nothing is fast. I've also kind of reached a point in my life currently where I don't want to hide that part of me.

I feel like that has been keeping me from making relationships. Because, you know, at some point, I'm so afraid that someone's going to ask me about what happened. Oh, how's your mom and, you know, like, how's your relationship with your parents? How about your husband with your parents? Oh, does your daughter? So I'm just, and I don't want to have that quick because it's such an awkward thing to talk about. Yeah, and it's such a like to, it's not something where like, yeah, of course you could say like they passed away, but it's like in your mind. There is this.

It's like even, you can say whatever you want. But I feel like within, you kind of still feel like a burden about it, you know, in the sense of like crap. Like it isn't your normal situation. No. Someone recently asked me even, you know, like, how about your daughter? I said, well, she, we just recently talked about a little bit that she knows she has another grandfather who is in prison. We haven't told her what happened yet. She's six. Right. Yeah. She knows that my, because she's starting to like really understand family lineage. So she knows that she has a grandma who is from Korea. and she is no longer with us.

She knows that I do have a sister who is also no longer with us. Actually, she knows she has a sister who was born before her that's no longer with us. And so, and then she just like, she says it so nonchalantly, I have another grandpa, but he's in prison. Yeah, right, kids. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, because I'm starting to share that piece of my, like, I, recent, my daughter started, she just, she's going, to be going into first grade.

So last year was her kindergarten year. And one of the moms I actually got close with, I finally was like, you know what? I'm going to just say it. And I told her and I said, I don't need you to like be like, oh or, you know, anything. I just, I figured. Just like letting you know. Right. This is something that's happened in my life.

And just in case, you know, I just, and it actually kind of is weird. It felt really good to just say it. I don't know why. Like I can't explain like, oh, why it felt so good. It just felt good. I feel like too because it's one of those things that it's so heavy. It is. And it's not something that you necessarily have to share.

No. But it's something that you probably do hold and carry with you. And I don't know. It's almost like that act of releasing it has helped. Yeah. It's like nothing's hidden. You know, when you're closed with people, you want to feel like they know the main important things about me. Yeah.

And I think the thing that. made me really feel like I could finally share this part of the story. So just like a random tidbit, someone from the ID channel reached out to me. I ended up saying no because it just didn't fit the story. Yeah. But, you know, court cases are public record. And so they found this and she reached out. And we talked about it. And, you know, she was like, I kept telling her, I was like, I don't think this is going to fit your story. I don't want to say the show, but like essentially they want to talk about like what led up to somebody doing this. And usually it's like the person harmed animals in the past, like when they were kids.

And so that's why it's not surprising or that, you know, this happened. And I'm like. Right. Like little like hints of. But there were no hints she did offer to like tweak it a little bit. I was like, that's not, but that's not my story. Yeah. And it didn't.

fit, I feel like for me, I don't fit like a true crime mold because I can't tell you what happened in that house. Well, you know, and I always say that with this show, my point of creating this platform is so that people can tell their story. Yeah. In whatever way that they want and whatever way they see is best fit. And for some, that might not be enough crime. Like, if that's what you want, go watch something else. Absolutely. But I don't think that there's enough platforms where it just allows people to tell their story without it being directed in any way, if that makes sense? Exactly. And, you know, so like for me, like most of my, like, trauma and everything that happened, yes, it happened. That was kind of like the trigger of it. Yeah. But it was like the aftermath.

Like the planning of the double funerals was hard seeing their bodies. Heck, like I said, my uncle's screaming at me. I still have that memory. It's so like in my brain. And, like how I know people are going to say like how can you still talk to your dad but like you really haven't forgiven him and I'm like it's very different but like someone I feel like that happened and yeah it was terrible versus like I was someone came after me in my most vulnerable moment like I was the most vulnerable I have ever been in my entire life you know and there's I always tell people this there are so many different different. aspects of everyone's story that someone can relate to. And, you know, even somebody could understand and relate to you from that perspective of knowing someone or being close to someone that did something horribly wrong, but they maintain some form of contact. And it might be similar where like the world or majority are like, how could you do it? I don't get it. But then hearing you say it, they're like, damn, like that's me. I'm the same way. And that's so important. It is. And so like, yeah,

You know, I do have, like I said, it's a, it's an arm's length. I do have a couple people in my life that are like, I don't know. I would never. And I'm like, because you're not in that. You don't know. Right. I'm that person before all of this happened. I would never do this.

I would never do that. And I, like, if it were me, you know, but like I've, I think that's the other part that I've come to realize, like, you won't know until. you go through it. And not that I ever want anyone to go through this, because this is horrible. It's a horrible, like, piece of my life that I, that I can't change. Well, also, you could feel so strongly for a year, two years, five years. And then at year 10, you're like, you're in a completely different mind space with it. Well, it's so funny, too. I, I've looked at, like, my past Facebook posts where I you know like the anniversary and like in the beginning it was a lot more about my sister

and like that relationship my mom and I were definitely in a good place but like you know you really don't know how much your parents love you until you it's it's that cliche and so more recently like I've been really feeling a connection towards my mom and I'm like shoot she really did love me it was a pain in the butt um so like right now I'm currently and I'm currently and take things a few steps at a time. Like I said, mentally I'm doing that. Currently, I, but the other parts of me, like, that I'm making sure I want to be strong for my daughter is that I do differently from my mom is, yes, I will do everything for you, but I also need to take care of me. Yeah. So two years ago, I was diagnosed with PCOS and I'm still navigating that. And I'm like,

of course. I'm, well, now I know why I've been having all these issues my entire life. I was 35 when I got diagnosed. So like, and I'm going to be 38. So that's fun to figure out.

And so I'm taking care of that aspect and I'm still learning. Currently, I actually just got, what is it, Sarah On's cookbook, Umma, and I'm trying to learn some Korean cooking because I didn't take advantage of the fact that my mom was not going to be around forever because I thought even now she'd still be here teaching me some stuff so I'm learning how it's little ways that you can connect I'm trying to connect a little more because I already had that connection with my sister like we both kind of understood like oh mom's so strict and stuff like so I had that connection already so now I'm trying to connect again with my Korean heritage for a while I also listened to another podcast full coverage with Laura

and M-U-A and something that really hit home with me was in a very different scenario. Laura lost her mom when she was third or lost her mom pretty young. And then she was 35 and her mom was 50. And she goes, crap, I'm 15 years younger than my mom was when my mom passed away. So she came up with a bucket list. And I was like, and I was 35 when she said that on her podcast on the podcast.

And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm 35. My mom was 50. Yeah. So we've currently like, so I came up with my own bucket list and we're starting to do it. Yeah. So one of the things we did here was we went to the Orioles game yesterday. So I'm trying, my husband and I, one of our first things we bonded over was our love of baseball. And now he's a Cubs fan.

I'm a socks fan. I know. anybody from Chicago is going to say that. But, you know, we also just love going to baseball games. It doesn't matter. Like, I love going to Cubs games. He likes going to Sox games. We go to Brewer's games because we're not far from the border.

Yeah. So our bucket list is going to every MOV stadium. So last year we were able to finally check off Target Field. We went to Camden Yards. I think we're going to try to do two next year. Awesome. It's going to be a slow trip. But, you know, I feel like pieces of me from before are starting to come back.

I'm starting to grow my village a little more. I've been making friends again. One of them just had to move. But it's okay. She's only two hours away. It's fine. Yeah, that's not bad. We can make it happen.

But like... I think you're allowing yourself to open up again. I am. And it really took a long time. And so I think, you know, but I'm okay with the fact that it took a long time because I feel like it really gave me a chance to process each piece of myself. And I just want to show my daughter, too, that like, it's okay to have things that are about you. It's okay to, you know, do things for you.

So we like, so this trip, we've been making sure we did a couple things that were for her. But, like, the baseball game was for me and my husband and things like that. I'm more working on, I don't know, it's not like I started any kind of big following on social media or anything like that. But I'm just trying to figure out connections to my mom, but also opening myself up to new experiences and, you know, figuring out my health because I want to be around as long as I can be. while understanding that nothing is linear. I can, you know, even 11 years later,

still have a moment where I want to bargain or I'm just grieving something. And that's okay. And then I, you know, I also understand, I stick to my mantras, you know, like nothing is linear.

It's okay. Take one step at a time. I can only control myself. I can't control anybody else. So like, for example, during the post-conviction, my husband's mom was very upset that my aunts were there. And she was very livid. And she goes, how are you not angry at that?

I'm like, something I worked on in therapy. I can't control what other people decide to do and what they, how they want to do things. I can only control me and myself. and everything. And then I eventually did, my uncle helped me with this one, but he, I said, I'm not mad that they were there. That's fine.

But I'm tired of people hiding it from me, things from me, like I'm going to break. You know, they didn't, so they didn't reach out to me to tell me they were going to be there because they thought I was going to shut them down. And I was like, he was very helpful. He goes, but you need that to be Michelle's decision, not yours. You can't make that decision. for her. But I've opened up the relationship with them and the rule of thumb is overall,

like, we don't talk about my dad unless, like, it's in the past, of course, because that's hard. 26 years again, you know, but we don't talk about certain things or, like, how I should or should not feel. And, you know, so, I don't know, even though I'm almost 40, I feel like I'm learning a lot about myself. Always. Always.

Always. And there is no end to your healing journey. No. You know, like you said, nothing's linear, nothing's black and white. And we're constantly evolving and growing and changing. And at the end of the day, we are just human. Yes. And we're going to have good days.

We're going to have bad days. We're going to have the in between days. But it's all okay. I'm going to have mundane days, which are great. Yes. But the fact, like I mentioned before, the fact that you are willing and able to share your story in such an amazing way is incredible. And that should be, that should make you so proud of yourself, truly. Thank you.

Because that's not an easy thing to do. No, it's not. No. It takes a lot of strength and vulnerability. And it takes a certain, it takes getting to a certain place in your healing journey to be able to do that. Yes. Like I said, I used to keep it to just the people who are. Right.

But. Not anymore. No, I want to, I, it needs to be out because I feel like closing that part of me. is closing off, like just, it's going to keep me from opening up. Yep. And, you know, I want to make meaningful friendships. And especially as my daughter is going through school, you know, there's some people that I probably wouldn't talk to regularly, and there's some I do.

And I want to be able to open up and, like, keep those friendships that, and make them. And, you know, that's all. Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. You did incredible, truly. And thank you so much. Thank you.

For coming here. Of course.