We're All Insane - My Mom Held Me Hostage

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hi, my name is Starty. And basically a little bit of my store I'm going to share is basically related to family abuse, other types of abuse, I guess, as well. Just like, basically my journey from when I was a child to where I am now, I guess. That makes sense. Okay, so I grew up in Victoria, B.C.

Starting point is 00:00:45 And my, I always say my childhood I thought was really good growing up. Like, I thought my home life was really good. I thought, to be honest, I thought I had it better than other kids because, you know, never did chores. I never had to like, yeah, I never had to do chores. I never like had a bedtime. Like I always felt like, wow, like, you know, this is amazing. My parents always like material wise, they always gave me what I wanted. And other kids were even jealous of me. So I thought, oh, I have it really well. But I didn't realize that all of this later on was actually like not a good thing because it was actually like a manipulation tactic. And it was for me to become

Starting point is 00:01:26 independent on them. So it was in a way so I would never have my own independence. And also another thing that I want to mention about my childhood is that, so I grew up in a biracial home. So my dad is Vietnamese and my mom is Canadian. And that's also like, I'm going to explain more about that later, why that's like a huge, why that was like a huge thing. But yeah, so yeah, I grew up in a my racial home. And, you know, yes, my childhood, like, I thought was pretty good, you know, because I never had to do chores, had a bedtime, nothing. But, you know, there was a lot of things that other kids could do that I wasn't allowed to do. Like, like a lot of my friends, like, could go into sports. They did, like, girl guides, that sort of thing. And I always wanted to do

Starting point is 00:02:13 things. And my mom wouldn't let me. She wouldn't let me do anything I wanted. She would never let me do girl guides or sports, that sort of thing. And actually, like, it was the point where, like, kids are like my parents don't want me hanging out with you because like they think that your mom's weird for not letting you do anything like they just don't think it's normal so they don't want me like hanging around to someone like that would your mom give you a reason as to why she didn't want you to do it yeah she gave me different reasons like oh because like you were sick as a kid and like if you were to do sports like it could like i don't know like something like because i had meningitis as a child so like apparently like she said that like if a ball hit me in the head from doing sports and

Starting point is 00:02:52 it could be like really dangerous for me or something like that. But like I really don't know. I don't think that's true. And then were you an only child? Well, so I have a brother technically, but he died before I was born. But he was like for my mom, like the previous person she was with before my dad. So I yeah, I didn't really grow up with. So it's just me and my parents really.

Starting point is 00:03:16 And the odd thing too is that I had my room. My mom has her room. My dad has his own room. My parents, I never saw my parents in love. I never saw my parents in a relationship growing up. I never saw my parents saying, I love you to each other, or to me. They never told me, and they never told each other. They never kissed.

Starting point is 00:03:31 They, like, I never saw my parents. Like, my mom was basically just with my dad for his money. My mom just using my dad for money. So not the best example that I had from my parents growing up, I mean, especially from my mom. But, yeah, other than that, though, like, my childhood was, like, I thought it was pretty okay. because, you know, I could still go to school and, you know, she'd still let me have play dates, but, like, she didn't really like me go into other people's houses. It was more like, oh, they can come to our house type of thing.

Starting point is 00:04:00 But the one thing that was weird is that she would never let me play with my friends, like, alone. Like, she would always have to be there. And as a kid, I guess that's okay because when you're a child, you know, it's like, yeah, you kind of need out supervision, right? So up until a certain age, it's kind of fine. But, you know, there is a stage where I'm, like, turning 10 years old, 11 years old, then my friends are starting to babysit.

Starting point is 00:04:20 They're starting to stay home alone. And my mom's still not letting me go out to the park by myself. Like, she'll literally stay there with me and my friends. And that's why she didn't want me really go and play at friends' houses because she was worried that their parents would let us go to the park alone and do things alone without adult supervision. That's why she wanted to prefer to be at our house. And, like, she wouldn't even let me play with the neighborhood kids either.

Starting point is 00:04:41 Like my mom was like, no, unless I can be there. And even some kids, she just didn't want me playing with them in the neighborhood her just because she thought that they were like, they were playing alone too much, like, without their parents' supervision, that she thought it would be, like, a bad influence on me or something. So I remember, like, there was these girls, and they were, I remember, like, I don't really, I don't really know them much, but I know they were my neighbors, and they were really sweet. Like, these girls would come up to my house, like, very often, like, at least once a week,

Starting point is 00:05:07 probably, and they were like, oh, my gosh, like, and ask them, mom, can we play with your daughter? And my mom would be, like, she would be, like, she would make up a new excuse. She'd be like, no, like, we're going to a movie night or, no, like, whatever other excuse she'd come up with. I would even be there and be like, it's not true. My mom was like, no, I just don't want you hanging out with those girls because they go out too much of their parents. But, you know, still, through my childhood, I still felt like, okay, like, I was pretty normal, but at that point, yeah, I started realizing, like, okay, like, people are, like, now, like, babysitting or doing things

Starting point is 00:05:36 alone. I'm still kind of getting babysat. But I guess I didn't really think too much of it until I started going to middle school. And then when I was in middle school, my mom was, was still very restrictive with me. And like at this point, like, kids were having even more freedom and I'm still like sheltered. Like I still can't, like, I couldn't even walk home from school, you know, like, or things like that. I couldn't even walk in my own front yard

Starting point is 00:06:03 without my mom being there. Like I wasn't allowed to do anything outside the house without my mom being there. And I wasn't allowed ever to be home alone. And this progressed like until I was like, so when I was in high school. And I remember so when I was in grade 10, And, like, my school counselor knew it was going on because I, I didn't really want to tell people that was going on because when I felt for the longest time, I never wanted to talk about it because I felt very embarrassed because I was like, you know, why, why am I, why can't I do things other people can do?

Starting point is 00:06:32 You know, and my mom, well, one of the reasons she said later on was because she said I had special needs, which was not actually true. And I mean, there's nothing wrong with having, like, be neurodivergent, but, like, I just wasn't. So it's just like there was, it wasn't very, like, it just didn't make sense that she would say that. Like, yeah, I have OCD and I have complex PTSD, but those are more like mental illnesses. And I've been diagnosed with those like later on into adulthood and not like when I was a child, right? But what she was saying was like, I had like some severe special needs or like that's why I needed to be like taking care of 24-7, which was like just not the case. Yeah, and how was, when it was you guys like, let's say on a weekend or after school or something, how was the home dynamic with you, your mom and your dad?

Starting point is 00:07:20 Like, would you guys do things together? Was she, no? So you were able to, like, be in your room and kind of do your own thing, but, like, still kind of limited on what that was? Pretty much, yeah. Like, well, my dad had never really had a relationship, sadly, because my mom never wanted me to have a relationship with him. Because she kind of wanted me always for herself. Like, she kind of had this selfish thing. So, like, yeah, so I should have said this before, but when I was a child, I wasn't really

Starting point is 00:07:44 allowed to have a relationship with my dad because my mom, this is really messed up, but she always wanted me to think that my dad was a pedophile. So she literally would tell me your dad's a pedophile. Like, so I wouldn't, so I would almost be afraid of him. She wanted me to be afraid of my dad in my own home. But yet she still wanted to be with him because she still wants the money from him because she doesn't work. So she just used my dad.

Starting point is 00:08:03 What age does she start telling you this? When I was a child. So she, and she basically, I'm assuming, told you what that meant at that. that age so that you... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was a lot. Because the last memory of really me, like, you know, hanging out with my dad alone without supervision of my mom was when I was, I believe I was, like, around like four or five years old, I was really young. And he was going to take me to the video store when video stores

Starting point is 00:08:33 were still thing. And we were going to go to the video store together. And I remember when my mom was really mad, she didn't want me to go. And she said my dad, like, if you take her there, like, she was going to lose it. And she lost it. She called the cops. And like, when I was at the video store, my dad, like, the cops, like, called the video store and it was a whole thing. And then that was, like, kind of the end. My dad, I guess never, he got scared of it too because he never wanted that to happen again. And my mom was, like, almost saying, like, he had to, like, kidnap me and took me there, you know, when we literally live in the same home. And then after that, me and my dad never had a relationship. And also another thing, too, that when I

Starting point is 00:09:08 was a baby, when I was a baby, like at three months old, my mom had technically separated from my dad for two years. And so at three months, she took me to Quebec, where my grandparents live, and she had basically promised my dad that he would get a job there if he, if we moved there with her. Because, I don't know, they separated, but then she wanted him to move there with her. She said, oh, my cousin will give you a job. But the thing about Quebec is that it's only French speaking. Like, it's mainly French speaking unless you're like in one. Montreal. And my dad speaks no French. So it was really obvious that he wouldn't get a job. Like he wouldn't succeed because he doesn't speak any French. And obviously he did, he actually

Starting point is 00:09:48 did try because he really wanted to actually be with me. So my dad actually went to Quebec and he tried and he didn't get anything. And obviously no income was coming in because my mom doesn't want to work. So my dad had to go to Ontario and stay with my aunt. And later on, what I found out from what my aunt had told me is that he was all the money that he was making there. He was sending at all to me, actually. And he would make trips from Ontario to Quebec on weekends just to come visit me because my mom would never go there and, you know, let me see him. And then after that, I guess two years later, she decided, well, she wanted to go back to Victoria. So she basically forced my dad to buy a house there. She said, if you don't, if you don't buy a house there,

Starting point is 00:10:26 then you'll never see your daughter again. Because my mom had full custody of me when they were separated for two years, because, which is what I found out later on from my aunt. my dad's sister, that my mom was able to take full custody of me because my mom had sent my dad the court papers in French for the court hearing. My dad doesn't speak French. Like, he doesn't understand French, so he didn't even know what was going on. He didn't know the court date. So when my mom went to court, she told the judge, well, look, he's not here. Yeah. So they gave her full custody. And that's why later on she was able to threaten my dad and say, well, hey, if you don't buy a house in Victoria, you don't move there, then you're never going

Starting point is 00:11:04 to see your daughter ever again. And so my dad didn't end up buying that house. But you know, it's so sad because after that incident at the movie, like at the video store, we never had a relationship ever again. Yeah. So that was basically the end of my relationship with my dad. And like after that, the only interactions we'd have, even though we live in the same house, would just be like small talk, like, hi, how are you? Maybe like twice every two weeks. not more than that. So your mom just kind of like to control and supervise and be around, but when it came to doing like activities with you,

Starting point is 00:11:42 was there anything like that happening or not really? Like there wasn't really a bond? Like she would, but it wasn't, like, yes, when I was a child, she would go out with me and do certain things. But like, I don't know, she wasn't, it was very controlling. I just felt it was, It was just more, I always felt control. Like, it wasn't enjoyable.

Starting point is 00:12:06 Like, it wasn't, like, I'm having fun with my mom. It's like, I just always felt like kind of like a puppet. You know what I mean? Like, under her strings. I mean, I would say maybe the relationship was a little bit better when I was a child with my mom than when I was a teenager. But, like, it was, you know, I was definitely always frustrated a little bit because I, because, like, I wasn't allowed to do what other kids were allowed to do.

Starting point is 00:12:30 So I always had kind of that resentment and didn't understand why my mom keeps saying, have special needs. I fully understand what's going on. Like, I don't, I don't know. It's just so odd for me. And especially because, like, there's no proof of this, right? She was just saying this. And so anyways, when I was in high school, in my grade 10 year, I confided in a school

Starting point is 00:12:52 counselor for the first time at, like, 16 years old about what was going on at home. Because I just never felt, yeah, I was really embarrassed about telling people before about, like, my home life, but my situation. Because I was like, man, like, people envy me because they know I don't have, like, a bedtime. They know that, like, I don't have to do chores. Like, I don't, like, I get everything I want, like, material-wise, right? So I'm really mad if people really knew what I was going through. And to be honest, I was like, I don't know why they're jealous of me because I was, like,

Starting point is 00:13:18 if anything, I should want their life. Because, like, I don't want all these things. I don't, like, I would rather just have a normal life. I'd rather do chores and be able to go out with my friends to the mall by myself and have a normal life, right? But that's not what I get to have. And so I remember, like, yeah, one day I don't remember why I told my school counselor, but I remember I just told her. And I feel like the system really failed me.

Starting point is 00:13:39 Like, I feel like the school really, like, failed me because my school counselor, like, she, she kind of knew it was going on. Where after I told her, she picked up what was going on, she said, yeah, it kind of sounds like you're serving a life sentence for, like, a crime you never committed. But she never told anyone. She never thought of calling social services. she never thought of, she never told anyone. So she knew I was like, basically like, imprisoned by my mom, but decided just to keep it herself. And at first I really actually liked this counselor,

Starting point is 00:14:13 and I thought that she was really there for me, and I really loved her, but then I realized, no, this is wrong. Like, if a kid is coming up to you and saying this stuff, you should do something about it, right? Because all the stuff that I went through afterwards could have been prevented had she actually step. and done something.

Starting point is 00:14:31 Yeah, and you felt safe enough to tell her. Yeah. And then she literally told me, oh, it sounds like you're serving a life sentence for a crime you didn't commit. So it's like... Thanks for the help. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:14:40 So then after that, yeah, I never really talked about it again because, like I said, I was still very embarrassed and I was holding it in. And so then I go into grade 11. Now at this point, I'm like 17 years old and I'm still getting baby sat by my mom.

Starting point is 00:14:53 Like, I'm still not allowed to go out in my own front yard by myself. I'm still not allowed to stay home alone because I supposedly have special needs. so I can't be anywhere by myself. And I remember, so this was, I think, the very pivotal point where I really realized that, like, something was just not right. Like, so I met this German international student at school,

Starting point is 00:15:17 and her and I became really good friends. Like, we hit it off right away, and I was like, dang, like, I really like her. And, you know, I was like, I don't know why this girl would, like, want to be friends with me because, like, I mean, you know, well I mean because a lot of other kids kind of knew that my mom was like a helicopter parent because they caught on what she was doing you know they could see that my mom was always there like she was always at school like you know like I mean she like if I had extracurriculars after

Starting point is 00:15:41 school like she would stay in the parking lot until like they ended so somebody like leadership or cheerleading and that would end in like 830 and she'd be in the parking lot till 830 like she would come after right after lunch time and would stay from like maybe like 1 till 830 p.m. and actually I didn't know this until later on until the school told me about it but um but yeah but like kids kind of I guess kids already knew that was happening and I just hadn't noticed so then knew my mom was a helicopter parent and so people didn't want to hang around me because you know people bullied me for it too they're like oh this girl's a helicopter parent you know so it was really hard for me to make friends actually and I got bullied a lot but this girl you know she's new she's from germany so I guess

Starting point is 00:16:20 like she doesn't really know me she doesn't really know anyone so I was like oh this is cool I have a fresh new opportunity to, you know, actually maybe I thought crazy enough I could have a real friendship, you know? And I really like this girl. So I didn't want to do anything and let her down. And she told me, well, okay, let's go to the mall on Saturday at 1 p.m. So I was supposed to go to the mall on a Saturday with her at 1 p.m. And this is like, you know, broad daylight. It's afternoon. And I knew my mom would say no if I asked her. But like, I already told my friend, yes, because I didn't want to say no to her. So I asked my mom, I said, well, can I go to the mall with my friend 1 p.m. on Saturday? And she said,

Starting point is 00:16:54 well, if I can't go, then no, obviously not. And I'm like, no, but please, like, just let me. It's just the afternoon. Like, I'll literally, like, it's at 1 p.m. Like, I'll literally be home. Like, we go for, like, two hours and I'll be home right after, you know? It's not that long. And then you can drop me off and pick me up or whatever, right?

Starting point is 00:17:08 And she was like, no, if I can't be there, then you can't go. Because whenever I would go, my friends in middle school with them all, she would, like, go with us, like, every single store and would follow us aisle to aisle. Like, and if she didn't see me in an aisle, she would start screaming my name and freak out. So, like, yeah. So, and that's why also I lost a lot of friends because people are like, dude, I'm actually scared of your mom.

Starting point is 00:17:27 Like, people were scared of my mom. And kids' parents were also scared my mom, like, not scared I guess my mom, but they were more like, we don't want you hanging out with that girl because like her mom's kind of, you know, there's something not right with her. Right. And obviously, I didn't want that girl to go through that. So I'm like, like, she just came from Germany. You know, I don't want to like scare her off. Like, I don't want. And obviously, I just don't want to lose that friendship.

Starting point is 00:17:49 I don't want to look weird. So after my mom said no, then I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to have to. like I didn't really know what to do so I kind of stood her up like at that point like I I mean I should have said something I just didn't know what to say like I felt so embarrassed yeah it's uncomfortable because it's like what do you say how do you explain that when you don't even understand what's going on yeah like I don't want to tell her oh hey my mom's actually like kind of crazy and won't let me like go by myself to the mall at 1 p.m like no and I mean yeah I was like I should have told her I should have said something to her like I couldn't but I didn't so

Starting point is 00:18:20 obviously I mean later on she really resented me for that and didn't really talk to me after and it was kind of mad because because she thought that I was like, you know, like I personally like intentionally stood her up. Yeah. Which was not never my intention. It was really not like literally the day off. I was begging my mom. Like I was begging my mom.

Starting point is 00:18:40 And actually my mom, so on the Saturday the day I was supposed to go out with her, my mom actually thought that I was going to run out of the house and go anyways. So she actually cornered me in a room for two hours or more. I don't remember. She literally had me in a corner and would stare at me in that corner the whole time to make sure that I wasn't leaving the house. And so I was like bawling my eyes out, freaking out, like, like panicking. I'm like, I don't even know what's going on. So I call one of my friends, one of my other friends. I don't know. I guess I don't know why I decided to tell her, but I told her I was like, hey, like this is kind of what's going. Well, my mom's in front of me, by the way. And my friend's like, you know, I'm kind of like texting her about it. And she's like, hearing me cry. And she's like, dude, she's like, I need to tell someone about this.

Starting point is 00:19:25 And she's like, I need to call social services. And I was like, no, like, please don't call social services. Like, I really don't want you to do that. And she's like, no, dude, like, I don't care if you say no. Like, like, I actually have to because like this is actually like not okay. Like I really need to tell someone about this. And like, I guess part of me like, I guess part of me did want help. But at the same time, another part of me was scared about like social workers getting involved,

Starting point is 00:19:47 which also why I wanted to hide it for so long. because even though I knew it was the right thing, I was scared that like, what if it's worse, right? What if I get put into a foster home? Because I've heard like foster home horror stories, right? And I'm like, well, what if I get put in a worse situation? And that's kind of what I was scared of. You know, I wasn't like ready. I was like, and plus I had no life skills.

Starting point is 00:20:06 I was really sheltered all my life. So I'm like, what am I going to do like in foster care? Like, I was scared. So I said, no, please don't call a social worker. But she was like, no, I have to. So, yeah, so she ended up phoning social services. And basically what happened was the social worker actually never got in contact with me. The social worker contacted my mom directly instead of contacting me.

Starting point is 00:20:29 And my mom is very good at manipulating people and is very good at lying. So she just said, oh, well, you know, my daughter has special needs, blah, blah, this is why I don't let her. And so eventually, she just said all this stuff that made her look so good that the social worker never even thought that she needed to contact me because she's like, oh, my mom's got this. So whatever, you know. And I think the reason too, which is really unfortunate, is because a lot of, a lot of people think that parents have their child's best interests at heart, right? Because most parents do, but not every parent does. And that's what it's, to people need understand that it's situational. It's not, it's not for every situation.

Starting point is 00:21:08 My situation, that was not the case, right? And so that was really big lack on the social workers part to say, like, and actually, it's really crazy. but the social worker had written a report that she had spoken to me and wrote a bunch of things that apparently I had said, which I never said. So I don't even know where she got that from. But she made up a whole report where she said that my mom was letting me stay out. Later, I was able to go to parties. And I was like, I never been to a party. Like, I don't even know where this is coming from.

Starting point is 00:21:32 But I found out this file because I don't remember how, but, oh, because the social worker had later on had told me. So anyway, so later on, so I hadn't heard from that social worker at all. and then, you know, a couple months go by, and I'm still living in the same hell at home, you know, wondering if my life will ever get better. And, yeah, and so, so towards the end of the year now, so like in June, very last day of school, there was a party that was happening, like a really big party that was going to happen in town. And it's basically, like, so they used to host these parties that were, like, in venues that were, like, clubs, but there was, like, basically.

Starting point is 00:22:13 you don't drink but it's like for like teenagers and stuff so it's kind of cool and always wanted to go to one of them because you know like everyone in the city was going to them and and it was like yeah last day of school party i was like i really want to go and so like i mean i knew obviously my mom would say no but i was like i'm still going to ask them all anyways i'm 17 right that's why i'm 17 years old and i'm like well i'm literally going to grade 12 the next year like i'm literally going to graduate high school the year after so mom i said hey can i go to this party like blah blah and so it's a Surprisingly, I don't even know why, but my mom agreed. She said, actually said yes, but she said, I'm going to stay in the parking lot the entire time.

Starting point is 00:22:52 So you can go. But for me, I was like, you know what, this is amazing. I'll take it because this is the most freedom I've ever had in my life. Like I wasn't allowed to go to my front yard by myself. I'm not even allowed to be home alone, but now I'm allowed to go to a party. And my mom being in the parking lot, I'm like, okay, it's cool. As long as people don't know what's my mom in the parking lot, like in her car, then I'll be fine, right? So I went to this party and I met this girl there at the party and this girl like she really liked me.

Starting point is 00:23:18 I don't know why, but like we really hit it off. Like she just thought I was the coolest person she never met. And I was like, oh my gosh, like if only she knew my life, because she went to a different school. So I'm like, but if only she knew like what my life was actually like she would know, I'm not the coolest person. And she was actually quite popular. Like she was one of those really popular girls that like actually not only people in her school knew her, but like people in the city knew of her.

Starting point is 00:23:40 you know so I'm like wow this really popular girl wants to be my friend I was like okay I was like it's kind of cool but like I don't know what I do so I definitely don't want to let this girl down you know and 17 year old me I'm like this is like really important to me you know and so anyways her birthday was going to happen in two weeks and she said I want you to come my birthday party it's in two weeks and like if and she literally said to me if you don't come to my birthday party then I'm not going to have one like I'm just going to cancel everything which is a crazy because I'm like, you just met me. Like, I don't know why you want me there so bad.

Starting point is 00:24:14 Like, it's like you barely know me, you know? But so anyways, I was like, well, I knew my mom would say no, but I asked my mom. And obviously she said, no. She said, well, if I can't be there, then you can't go. Right? And so she was going to have her birthday at the lake. And my mom said, well, she said the only condition that I'll let you go to her birthday is if I can go as well at the lake.

Starting point is 00:24:36 But like not in the parking lot, like literally with us in the party at the lake. like and mind you this girl was younger than me she was like two years younger than me and so it's like and she was going to like by herself with all her friends right and she had about like probably 20 friends at her birthday like she had a lot of friends and I didn't know any of them because they were all from like different schools and I remember like I really like I don't know I I really didn't want to go to her birthday when my mom was like oh I'll go because I didn't want my mom to go you know what I mean because I didn't want to be awkward. So I, when my mom said, no, I was like trying to find every excuse I could.

Starting point is 00:25:17 Because I was like, okay, I don't want to stand this girl up because I know that's not right. Because I'm not going to stand her up. But I'm going to make up an excuse. I remember, I don't remember what excuse I said, but I made up an excuse the first time. And she wasn't happy with it. She's like, no, you have to come because the rise. I'm not having my birthday if you don't come. And I was like, oh my gosh.

Starting point is 00:25:34 So I was like, literally. I was like, okay, well, I'm sick. I don't feel good. Like, I really can't come. And she's like, no, well, then I'm just going to cancel it. And I'm like, dude, no, like, it's your birthday. Like, I don't want you to cancel your birthday just because I can't come. Like, give so many other friends that are going to go, like, you don't need me.

Starting point is 00:25:46 And she's like, nope. And I tried so many times to, like, tell her, like, no and no and no. And she just wouldn't take it. And I felt really bad because I'm like, you know, I don't want this girl to not have her birthday because of me. It's like, it's really bad if she didn't have a birthday party because of me. So I was like, so I said, fine. And then she was really happy. I remember I bought her gift.

Starting point is 00:26:05 And I got her McDonald's gift card. and I remember when I got to the parking lot and I'm, you know, and I walk out of the car, my mom's also walking out of the car with me. And I'm actually totally beforehand that day. She said before we go to the lake, we're going to stop by the dollar store because I'm going to buy a beach mat

Starting point is 00:26:19 so then I can, like, sit there while you guys are there, you know, like, so crazy. And so, yeah, and so, like, when I get the parking lot, my friend, like, runs up to me, and she gives me big hug, and she's like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy you're here. And then I gave her a gift, and it really meant a lot to her

Starting point is 00:26:34 because apparently, even though she was really popular, and she had a lot of friends. Out of all her friends, I was the only one who gave her gift. So she said, wow, you're the only person that actually gave me a gift. So she was like, so she was really happy to admit a lot to her that I was there. But I was like, I don't know how I'm going to tell this girl that, like, my mom's not going to leave. You know, and this is going to be really awkward. So anyways, you know, we're in the parking lot and I say hi to all her friends and I meet all them. And then, you know, we start walking up the hill.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And my mom's obviously walking next to us. And they're like, oh, they're like, why is your mom like here? You know, some of their friends are kind of confused. and I'm like, oh, I'm like, don't worry, guys. She's just going to like, she just, like, wanted to see, like, once I'm up. And then once I'm up, like, she's going to leave. Did she keep a distance at all? No.

Starting point is 00:27:14 Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at American Criminal. Like at all. So she was like like literally walking.

Starting point is 00:27:41 She's like right next to us. Yeah. And so they're like they kind of uncomfortable, you know, because they were younger than me. They were like 14 year old girls like 14, 15 year old, you know? So they're like, this is uncomfortable. Obviously if I was there age, I'd be uncomfortable too. Yeah. And they're like, oh, well, she's leaving, right?

Starting point is 00:27:57 And I said, no, no, yeah. Like she just wants to make sure that we're up. And then once we get there, she wants to make sure I'm safe basically getting up there. And once we're there, she's going to leave. Like I knew I was, I knew what I was saying wasn't true. But I just didn't know how to break it to like 20 random strangers that I've just met that I don't know that, hey, my mom's a psycho and she's not going to leave. And so basically, as we get up to the cliff, they're like, okay, well, we're here now. And I'm like, yep.

Starting point is 00:28:18 They're like, well, is your mom going to go? And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, I'm going to have to tell these people. Like, and this sucks. Like, I don't know any of them. I don't. And I'm just going to have to like now publicly say this. So, you know, I kind of move them a little bit to the side further from my mom. And I said, hey, can I talk to all you guys?

Starting point is 00:28:35 So they're like, have them in a circle. And I tell him, so like, my mom's not leaving actually. My mom's kind of crazy. And then my mom was like actually behind a tree the whole time, like standing up. She didn't even sit on the beach mat. She stood behind a tree. And her birthday was like for like hours. It was like maybe like five or six hours at the lake.

Starting point is 00:28:52 It was like a whole day thing. And my mom just stood behind the tree. It was like. Just watching? Yeah. It was like Slender Man. Like literally just right behind a tree watching. And you know, these kids were so scared.

Starting point is 00:29:02 Like I'm not even, I'm not even, yeah. Like, remember how that was a thing? back then like yeah so it's like literally like that like right behind the tree and they're so scared yeah like they're scared of their mind that literally they all of them jumped off the cliff they're like we'd rather jump all that so they all jumped off the cliff because they had they brought like the like inflatable boats so they all jumped off the cliff and literally went to like there was like a mini island at the lake there was like for and they all went to the island did you go no because like i couldn't like my mom was there like so so you just stayed with her they just they just jumped off because

Starting point is 00:29:33 they were too scared of my mom right okay except for one girl one girl's very sweet and she said, oh, you know what, I'm going to stay with you. I feel kind of bad, and I'm actually not scared of your mom. She's like, it's okay. I feel bad for you. I want to be here with you because I don't want you to be alone up on that cliff. And then I remember there was one girl. She didn't jump off the cliff.

Starting point is 00:29:48 She actually was bawling her eyes out with her boyfriend. She's like, I'm going home. Like, I'm taking a bus. I'm going home. I can't take this. I'm really scared right now. And so she was so traumatized that she actually just like left the birthday. Like fully left.

Starting point is 00:30:01 Yeah. Yeah. So that was a mess. And I was 17. years old at this point like I'm literally like this is summer before I graduate high school and at that point I'm like okay like I can't live like this anymore you know like I really cannot live like this like if this is like I was never like a suicidal person but like I knew I didn't want to live that particular life because I'm like will I ever be free will I ever be able to get out of this

Starting point is 00:30:32 you know like I was literally like I was literally like really living a life sentence for a crime I committed like I was literally stuck in my home like I was in imprisoned and like you know by my mom it's like even though I go outside and I do things like my mom is just always there and so that night like I just lost it I freaked out when I got home I started crying and I started calling help lines I started calling help lines like I was calling suicide hotlines I was calling every single hotline I could because I just wanted someone to hear me and someone to like help me out of this like so I was just calling everyone I codes. It's called all these 1-800 numbers. Is she aware that you're making these calls or no?

Starting point is 00:31:11 So later on she was. Okay. So I repeatedly did this. I was like, I'm going to do this until someone listens to me. So I literally that whole summer I dedicated doing that. So I would get on the phone like, oh my gosh, I would get on the phone like so early in the morning. Like I don't remember what time.

Starting point is 00:31:27 Maybe like 8 a.m. 9 a.m. I don't know. And I would go to bed at like 2, 3 a.m. And I would do this like for the whole time, like all day. Like I would just stay in my room and I would just call. call help lines. And also because like at one point two later on, my mom had actually like fully held me hostage in my room. Like she was, she did not let me out of my room. So that was actually a mess. How long did she do that for? Almost that whole summer after that birthday. Yeah. So she barely let you out of your room. You've been in the house. No, she at that point

Starting point is 00:32:01 she locked me in my room. Like I was not allowed out of my room like at all. So she was what, bringing you food, water, everything? If I wanted to go to the bathroom, I'd have to knock on the door. And then I would have her or my aunt who was staying with us at the time for the summer. And they would follow me in the bathroom. And they would watch me even as I showered, as I peed, like everything to make sure that I wasn't running away or calling helplines for help. Was your aunt the same way as your mom? No. But she really like, for some reason, just followed along with it. Yeah. So she was like an accomplice. It's really not helpful.

Starting point is 00:32:34 because, you know, when I was calling all these help lines, I'm kind of caught on that I was doing this. And that's why she kind of got mad because, you know, one day she's, because she, I didn't know, but she was like looking at my phone log on, like, there are, like, my cell phone service provider. And she's seen all these 1-800 numbers. And she's like, why the heck are you calling all these 1-800 numbers?

Starting point is 00:32:54 Like, what's going on? So she starts looking them up and seeing that there's suicide hotlines and all these other abuse lines. And she's like, why are you, like, why are you calling these lines? Or it's kind of why, like, she wanted to lock me in my room because she's like, you know, she was, and then at that point, she took away my phone, right? And she actually eventually disconnected all the home phones out of the house, which was eventually a problem for her, because it's like if there's an emergency, then I can't even call 911 if there's a fire.

Starting point is 00:33:17 So actually that was not good for her for doing that. But she ended up doing that because she didn't want me calling all these lines. But I remember, so at first she took away my phone, and then I kind of had to like learn how to be very manipulative. to like kind of like get the privilege back of getting my phone. So like, you know that show you on Netflix? So you know how like in the first season like he like, the guy like puts the girl back into this into this thing, right? She kind of has to learn to manipulate him to like let her out.

Starting point is 00:33:50 So that's kind of what I was doing my mom, you know? And your dad was just doing his own thing at the house? Yeah, well he was almost ever home. He worked two jobs because my mom doesn't want to work a single job because she's just lazy. Okay. And she said that her full-time job was taking care of me. even though like I was basically almost an adult at this point.

Starting point is 00:34:08 But she said that was her full-time job was singing her. So that was her reason why she couldn't work because she's a special needs daughter that she has to take care of. Yeah, so quite insane. But anyway, so yeah, so when I was like locked in my room, eventually I got my phone taken away and I'm disconnected all the home phones because she didn't want me calling all these helplines. Obviously she was mad about it. And so I had to learn to be very manipulative. and like kind of like tell her what she wanted to hear so I was like oh yeah you know what

Starting point is 00:34:36 I understand now why you're doing this to me it's because you love me like I literally told her that even though I didn't use all BS I'm like it's because you love me you're you're taking this way from me because you love me this is the reason why you don't let me out alone because because you don't want me to get hurt you don't want me to like you don't want some bad to happen and she's like oh my gosh like you're finally understanding it that's exactly it's exactly what it was this whole time it's because I love you she's like I might not tell you you, but that's why I do these things. I was like, and I'm just in there like, oh my gosh, like you're actually insane. I'm like, you're a psycho, but because you actually believe that.

Starting point is 00:35:09 And so eventually, like, yeah, I got my phone back. And then as soon as I got my phone back, I started calling help lines all over again. But I had to be really sneaky about it, you know, because our house was kind of small. My mom's room was in it next to mine. So I can't, I don't want her hearing, right? So I would have to like, so I would actually go in my closet to make these calls. And my closet wasn't a walking closet. Like, it was just like a, a, regular tiny little closet so i had to like crouched down in my clothes and like whisper in the phone like that's how i would do it and i would do this all day every day like like like sunday sunday like just now where you just when you would call these hotlines where they were you just

Starting point is 00:35:44 telling them your story or were you asking for help like i was kind of telling them what's going on and they just never really did anything okay like i don't really know why like they're more there if like oh like well are you you want to commit suicide and if i say no then they say oh well then there's nothing really they can do apparently right they're not just talking you down from anything which is really sad because it's like no like if a child is telling you they're going through something so it's like I'm like a minor at the time it's like I'm literally a child like you should be calling social services yeah I just don't understand why all these people are sitting there and until like I say that I want to harm myself or somebody else nobody can intervene like nobody can do anything

Starting point is 00:36:22 right which is ridiculous like they should and I feel like they should have some sort of like protocol that yes if a kid is calling especially like they're calling every single day Right. Yeah, it's a huge red flag. Like, you should be doing something about it, right? Like, and sometimes, like, when I would talk, like, in my room, when I wasn't in my closet, I would, like, literally hide my phone under the pillow. Whenever my mom would come into my room, it's like pretend that wasn't on the phone, you know? And they could be, like, hold on a sec.

Starting point is 00:36:45 And they could, like, notice this and nothing, you know? So eventually, I ended up calling social services myself because I'm like, I'm sick of these helplines. Like, they're not helping me at all. So I call social services on myself. I was really scared because, like I said, I didn't all want to go to foster home. I knew I didn't want what was going on for me at that moment, but I didn't want the foster home either.

Starting point is 00:37:05 Right? So, yeah, so I just, I called social services, and then I got a social worker. And that first social worker wasn't very great. He, like, I told him what was going on, and then he ended up insulting me and telling me that basically I was the bad kid. Because he said, oh, well, you just sound like an ungrateful child. Like, he's like, yeah, he literally said,

Starting point is 00:37:28 Like, you sound, he said, like, you just sound like a grateful child. Like, your parents, like, I mean, they give you, like, you have food, right? You, you live in a home. Like, you know, it's like, like, like, there's nothing wrong. Like, you know, your station. Like, parents are a lot of parent their kids any way they want. Like, if they don't want you hanging out with certain kids, that's fine. They're allowed to say no.

Starting point is 00:37:44 They're allowed to not let you do whatever you want. Right. Like, no, I'm being cornered and locked in my bedroom. Yeah. Yeah. And then he talked to my mom on the phone. And so that, so he wanted to talk to my mom. And so when talked to my mom, my mom found out that I called social services.

Starting point is 00:37:57 Now she's freaking out even more. So obviously my phone privileges are gone again. So once again, I have to go through all the manipulation all over again about like, you know. And still 17. Yeah. This is all in one summer. This is all in the same summer, by the way. So at that point, like, yeah, I'm really locked in my room.

Starting point is 00:38:13 Like, that's obviously when it was at its peak, like the worst, right? Yeah, after my mom fed out of cult social services on her. Yeah. Yeah. But the social worker obviously sided with her and told her mom like, oh, it's okay. Like, I get it. Like, you know, he's like teenagers. But it's like, no, it's not.

Starting point is 00:38:29 Because he's like, because he just thought my mom had my best interest at heart, you know, and he's like, she's, and he actually said mom's being a good parent. He said, you should be more grateful of your parents and you should like be nicer to them, treat them better and actually cut them some slack. And I'm like, wow, like, that's, like, you're not in my situation. Like, how could you say that to me? You know, like, I'm kind of being abused, like, literally being abused. Like, what do you mean? And then, so I was locked my room again. And like, it's crazy.

Starting point is 00:38:54 Like, if I wanted to get food, like, I'd have to knock on the door. I had no phone. Like, I didn't even know if I was going to get back my phone after that. Like, I'm like, I don't even have contact with the outside world. Like, I don't know if anyone even knows that I'm locked in my room. I don't even know if I'll ever get out. Like, will she even let me go to school next year? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:39:10 Because, like, she fully locked me. Like, if I want to go to the bathroom, like, she would follow me in the bathroom, right? And, like, or have my aunt follow me. And they would watch me as I'm showering, whatever I'm doing, then bring me right back to my room. If I wanted food, it was the same thing. Right? And so, so then I didn't really get my phone that easily again after the,

Starting point is 00:39:27 that. So, but one day my mom went to do some errands and I was alone with my aunt in the house. And now this is the thing. I was always really clever. Like, I was always a really clever kid. Like, because I knew how to manipulate and you had to get myself out of like, well, I guess like I was kind of good in these situations. So when I got the privilege to be on the computer, so my mom left run errands, my aunt,

Starting point is 00:39:50 let me use the computer. She used to monitor me to make sure I'm not like, you know, reaching out for help again on the computer. but what I did, so I would, I opened a page and I had YouTube on one, on one screen, and then I opened another tab, but I would like go in and out of it. So I like minimize it in and out. So that way they would know. And that was like a helpline. But they had like an online portal where you could like message them. So as I'm pretending to watch YouTube, I would message them. And whenever my, and my aunt wasn't like exactly right next to me. She was like in the living

Starting point is 00:40:21 room, but she could still like kind of see me. It was like, you know, at a distance. But like, she couldn't see me closely enough to know. exactly what I'm doing on the computer. Yeah. But whenever she would come, like, by, like, next to me on the computer to see what I'm doing, I would just open up my YouTube again. And so she never caught me messaging helpline. So she's like, I was just like, you know what?

Starting point is 00:40:37 I think Shannon really is doing improvement. So she told my mom, she was like, I think she's really improving. Because, like, you know, she was on the computer and she did so well. She just watched YouTube and didn't do anything. And, yeah. And so then I got my phone again because I was doing better. Yeah. And what were these periods of time that you would have your phone taken and then she would give it back, give it back, would you say?

Starting point is 00:41:07 Like what was that like time, amount of time that you had, I guess, proved that you were doing better? I don't remember if it was two or three times. Okay. But it was like through that whole time when I was like in my room. Okay. Like when I wasn't really allowed to like. So would you say it was like weeks at a time that she was doing this? Months?

Starting point is 00:41:24 Not months. It was just during the summer. It was like during like the July-August period. Okay. Of the summer after my grade 11 year, right before my grade 12 year. And when she felt like you were back on track, she'd give you the phone. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:38 So when she felt that I was like, you know, oh, like, actually like understanding why she's doing what she's doing. And, you know, and I'm not trying to call any helplines because I'm obviously not in a dire situation. Then I can have my phone back. Okay. And I seem to get my phone back. I'm still just calling people. Like, I'm just calling everyone I can. Right.

Starting point is 00:41:55 Even though I knew the help lines weren't helpful, I was still calling them because I was like, well, now social services isn't helping me because they clearly don't believe me at all. Right. Like, you know, they're actually, like, being degrading towards me. Like, the way they're talking to me is actually like... I just can't believe nobody came to check out the situation. Yeah, it took them a really long time. Yeah. It took them a really long time.

Starting point is 00:42:15 So, like, yeah. Actually, I only had a social worker actually check it out, like, I think two weeks before summer ended. Yeah. So crazy. And then I was like living like this first. like weeks and no one yeah um so eventually i was like you know what i'm so sick of this there's one night i was like i'm gonna call social services again but i'm like i want to speak to like one of the people in management like i want to speak to like local management position because i i i need to

Starting point is 00:42:42 like let someone like who's like an upper like know what's like what's going on because like also like i need to let them know that how the social worker talk to me because like it's not appropriate like that's not right if there's a kid going through something like that's that and then I'm being blamed for it. Like I was like, no. So I remember I asked, I said, hey, can I speak to, like, because I don't want to, like, you know, be assigned another social worker and then be told this again because I was also scared of that, you know?

Starting point is 00:43:08 And so I eventually, he said, yes, they transferred me over and I talked to one of the operas, I told them, hey, like, actually, this is what your social worker said to me. And I, and he said, wow, that's because I'm so sorry. Like, he's like, I will try to connect you with another social worker and I'll make sure that they don't do that again, that they don't say anything like that again. I'm like, yeah, because, you know, like, he's not in my shoes. He's not in my house. So he can't really know, like, what he's saying is, like, accurate. So, uh, so eventually I got assigned to another social worker. And that social worker, so the first time she came to my house, and this is a point that I

Starting point is 00:43:43 really want to emphasize, because a lot of people think that if you're abused, you're abusive situation that your home has to like look a certain way. Like it has to look like dirty or has to like, you know, like bad living conditions. Exactly. But the thing is that it's not necessarily the case. Just because your house looks nice or it's clean doesn't mean that you're not being abused. Right. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Right. And then fortunate part is the first time that I got assigned to this new social worker, she came to my house and she's like, well, your house looks fine. Like your house is nice. Like your room's nice. Yeah, because my mom like, my mom was a clean person. Like, I mean, even though my mom would clean the house, yeah, she was never dirty. So

Starting point is 00:44:22 our house was always clean. But it's like just because our house is clean doesn't mean that, you know, and that's such a huge misconception, I think people need to get over that, you know, abuse doesn't equal dirty. Yeah. Like, you know, you can be abused and your house can be nice. And actually, my mom, like, she, and since I wasn't allowed to do chores, like, my mom would clean the house. Like, she was the one cleaning. I wasn't even allowed to clean my room. So that's why my room was always, like super spotless. Like, she wouldn't even let me make my own bed. If she, if I wanted to, she would get mad at me. She wouldn't even let me make my own bed.

Starting point is 00:44:50 She wouldn't let me touch my own stuff. Because of the thing, like, you know, as a child, that's why I thought, oh, my mom's so cool. But it was really just so I'd be dependent of her. Or, like, she wouldn't even let me do my own laundry. Like, not know how to do anything on your own. Yeah. So then she could tell people a lot of special needs because, oh, look,

Starting point is 00:45:02 my daughter doesn't know how to do anything. She's 17. Yeah. And that's when I realized, oh, this is why she was doing that. Because she wouldn't let me cook, and she wouldn't let me, like, use the washer dryer because she said that I was going to break the machines. You know, it sounds like, what is it,

Starting point is 00:45:18 it's a Munchausen by proxy. But it's the right proxy. Yeah. That's exactly what I think my mom has. Well, and it's interesting because it sounds like that, but it makes me, I mean, and who knows, like if you didn't get out of it, if it would have even progressed further than what it was? Oh, of course it would have.

Starting point is 00:45:35 Okay. Yeah, because I was going to say, like, I'm surprised, though, up until then that she wasn't, like, actually trying to make you sick or something like that. Yeah. Because, I mean, if she's sitting there saying, like, oh, she's special needs, like, obviously you are not. So it's like it makes you kind of surprised that she didn't try to actually like inflict things like that. No, it's just because she wanted to make me so dependent. So she didn't teach me life skills. So she didn't teach me how to do laundry. So I don't know how to do laundry.

Starting point is 00:46:00 She didn't teach me how to cook. She didn't want me touching her kitchen at all. She didn't want me touching her laundry machine. So she would just do everything I wanted for me. Right? So that way I wouldn't learn. She never taught me how to tie my shoes. All the skills I learned from other people. I learned to tie my shoes from someone in musical theater who taught me. I didn't know how to my own hair, I only learned from a FaceTime call with my aunt when I was 17. I didn't know how to tie my hair before I was 17 years old. Like I did not know how to do a single thing for myself. My mom was doing every single thing for me. So yeah, it's when social comes to my house, well, she's going to see my room is all clean because my mom cleaned it. Like, what do you mean,

Starting point is 00:46:36 you know? But so when she came in, she's like, yeah, well, it just doesn't really seem like you're in the abusive situation. Like, it just doesn't seem that bad. And I'm like, but I'm not lying to you. Like, why would I make this up? Like, it is and she just didn't believe me and it was so hard like that whole summer it seemed like nobody was believing me and also there's a lot of invisible forms of abuse yeah and it was so frustrating because you know I was like I was not suicidal but I wanted I didn't want to live the particular life I was living like you know I wanted to like I wanted to like do like a lot of drugs I never did it thankfully but I wanted to I never drank or actually did drugs in my life um But there was a huge desire for me to do it because I, because I didn't want to live another day sober to see what was going on.

Starting point is 00:47:24 Like, I just didn't want to see it anymore. You wanted that escape. So I literally wanted to, like, be high every day. Yeah. Just so I wouldn't have to see it. Mm-hmm. And then, like, I guess, so I guess what really helped me is I started praying. One day I just, I started praying God and I was like, I don't even know if God's real or not, but I'm just going to start praying.

Starting point is 00:47:44 I didn't even know how to pray. And I prayed. and I was like, you know, because I was like, nobody's believing me right now. But if you're real, then get me out of the situation somehow. Get some social worker, someone to believe me, someone to help me out of this. Because I can't stay trapped in my room my whole life. Like, you know, like, I need, like, you're supposed to. Like, yeah, like, I need to, you know.

Starting point is 00:48:07 And I think that like God really pulled through because later on, the social worker, So the social worker told me that day when she came and said, I got something wrong. But I begged her. I said, please, please, please. I was like, you know, you need to believe me. She said, okay, well, if you insist that it's so bad, then let's schedule an appointment for two weeks.

Starting point is 00:48:30 And you can come in two weeks to my office. I don't think it's really that bad. I really, she thought, like, this appointment was going to be a waste. But I said, no, I'll take it. I'll take it. I'll go. I'll be there in two weeks. I'll be your office in two weeks.

Starting point is 00:48:41 Like, I was so happy. Because I was like, this could really be the, A chance? I thought the chance was pretty small because I can already tell she's not believing me. But I'm like, I will take any chance I can get at this point. So I'm like, I'll take it. And so my mom and I had to go. Oh, she had you guys go together?

Starting point is 00:48:58 Because I'm not allowed to go anywhere by myself. Okay. So my mom has to go there too. And my aunt was there because she was there staying and spending the summer. What did your mom say about having to go to that appointment? Well, obviously she wasn't happy about it. But, I mean, I insisted. So now it's kind of like.

Starting point is 00:49:13 like we'd have to go. Yeah, okay. Because that social services is kind of involved, right? And so my aunt, who was staying, spending the summer, like, helping my mom, like, babysit me. My mom would do her thing as well. Yeah. So she went as well. But, so the sad part is, and I guess it was kind of my bad, too, but, like, so the

Starting point is 00:49:33 weekend before, the weekend right before going to the social workers' office, my mom wanted to go to Vancouver for the weekend with my aunt because, you know, and, you know, and, you with me because she just wanted to do like a fun summer trip because she just wanted to. But obviously since I'm not allowed to, I'm not allowed to be home alone, right? And my aunt's going to be going with my mom on this trip. Then I have to go to. So I'm like, well, do you want to come to Vancouver for the weekend? We're going to go to Vancouver and we're going to, you can basically,

Starting point is 00:49:59 I told me I could, like, basically I could buy whatever I wanted. I could go in a shopping spring, get whatever I wanted. But, like, basically, so I don't tell anything to the social worker, right? So it's like, you can get anything you want, but only if, like, you don't, hotel, you know, like what's going on. And obviously me as a kid, like 17 years old, like, I mean, it sounds kind of cool to get like, you know, free stuff. I mean, I get to like go shopping at like nice stores and I get to like get whatever I want. So I was like, okay, yeah. So I mean, you know, we stayed at a nice hotel and and we did the shopping and, you know, when I bought a lot of

Starting point is 00:50:36 expensive things. And I now I didn't think that me wearing those things and, you know, going to the social workers office was going to make it look like what I'm going through wasn't true. So for me, I was like, oh, it's nice. I got new clothes and I want to wear my new clothes, right? And so my social worker sees me, and she's like, she's like, well, she's like, I heard that you went on a shopping spree to Vancouver because the mama told her. And she's like, I'm so sorry that your mom had to take you to Vancouver this weekend and go on a shopping spree. She's like, I wish I could do that. She's like, I'm so sorry that you got a new Michael Coors bag and you got like New Michael Coors shoes. I shop at like Joe Fresh. I wish I could do that. I wish I could do

Starting point is 00:51:13 too she's like man it sounds like your situation is so bad and I was like no but like it is I don't know what you mean and she's like because for me like it didn't click that like oh if I dress a certain way then it's not going to be credible but my mom literally like kind of made me do this so that way like she would look good again right so then it's like but obviously even though I told my mom I wasn't going to tell I'm still going to tell like you know I just want the free stuff so I don't social worker I'm like no but I'm not like I'm not like I'm not lying about what I'm saying like I really am going through all of this social worker like you know what like I think this is like BS and basically like she wanted to call the whole thing off but

Starting point is 00:51:55 there was something that she still ended up calling the whole thing off after that because she thought okay like it just doesn't sound too credible because like the house is nice and the girl's wearing like nice new clothes but there was something that kind of put her off a little bit because after so I was talking to the social worker just me one-on-one in that room. But after, like, she wanted to talk to my mom and my aunt alone without me there. And then, so she said, okay, well, can I talk to you guys alone and have Shannie wait in the waiting room? And my mom's like, and my aunt was like, no, we don't leave Shannie alone.

Starting point is 00:52:30 And so she was like, oh, well, but she's 17. She's like, we have a secretary there. Like, she's not going to be alone. My aunt's like, no, she has to be under supervision of me or her mom. We don't, if she's not under supervision of us, we don't let her by herself. not in the waiting room either. And so she was like, okay, that's kind of weird. So she's like, okay, well, I guess then I'll do the mom first and then I'll do the aunt after, like, you know, just do one and one with each. That way someone's always with me, right? So that kind of ticked her off,

Starting point is 00:52:56 but it didn't take her off and not to not call the whole thing off. So she still called everything off, but she did think that was weird. She did think that was weird, but not weird enough to like get more involved. So go back home to the same living hell. I don't remember if my phone got taken at that point again either. I don't, I don't remember, like, I just remember, like, certain bits and parts in summer because it was like such a, it's kind of a blur now because I feel like also so many years of past.

Starting point is 00:53:21 It was like not a great experience. My mind doesn't really want to remember. Like blocks it out? Yeah, all of that stuff. But I remember I went back home, and I remember it was just hell again. And I remember at this point, there was one day, I had my diary, right? And my diary is where I wrote all the crap

Starting point is 00:53:39 about my mom. So I definitely don't want my mom reading that. And my mom, like, caught my diary. So she was holding it, and I was, like, trying, I was trying to pull out of her hands. So basically, they were a plain, like, tug of war. And then she, like, kicked me in the stomach. But the thing is that, so I think that she actually kicked me in the stomach by accident. Like, it wasn't because she wanted to kick me in the stomach. Like, that, I know it was, it was because, like, she just wanted, like, me to let go so she could read the diary, basically.

Starting point is 00:54:06 But because she still kicked me in the stomach, I was like, well, now you physically abuse me. So I was like, now I'm going to call. again. So I like ran into my room and I'm like, you know what, screw this. I'm calling because I'm like, good for you. Now this is physical abuse. And hopefully at least this will make someone believe me and listen to me. Because at least if I say, hey, I'll make me keep me in the stomach, maybe now they're actually going to take this seriously. Right. So I called the help line. It wasn't, I didn't call social services. I called a different help line. It was like a youth empowerment society, something like that. So anyways, I found their line. I called them and I told

Starting point is 00:54:40 them what was going on and I said hey my mom just kicked me in the stomach and they said oh well this is serious like we need to call we need to get social services involved so we need to call and I said well I was like you can do that but they're not going to believe you trust me like I have like two social workers already and they've already called it off like they want nothing to do with this and they're like no it doesn't matter though because that's physical abuse so we have to call and also like he also thought the phone call was kind of weird with me just because like my mom would like my mom would like my mom would hello every so often my mom would so that way like you know because i'd be like oh hold on a second i'd hide her my pillow so she's not thinking i'm calling you a hop line again so the guy was like yeah and also

Starting point is 00:55:17 just like this phone calls really weird because you keep like you know putting me on hold and like i just sent something really off you know because like tell me you don't get in the stomach and you keep putting me on hold like it's just not right i have to call social services again so they call social services for me and so doesn't social services call on my behalf for like typically abuse, the social worker, the same social worker who had called it off gets back involved. So now she's like, great. So she stood up in my house again and she's like, well, she's like, you know, so now she's thinking like, not to investigate, but I don't really know how she, I don't know if she felt like still was like BS. But thankfully, that day, and I think that if my mom

Starting point is 00:55:59 had it reacted the way she did that day, I would probably be still lock in that room. because my mom that day, she just, when the social worker came again, she just lost it. Like, she just had, like, a meltdown. Like, had, like, a full-on meldling because she just couldn't take it anymore. She was sick and tired of, like, social workers

Starting point is 00:56:18 and social workers coming, and now she's, like, she's just... And probably to a degree, having to put up this facade, too. Mm-hmm. You know, it's hard to just, like, fake something and pretend over and over. I do have one question. Were you ever scared of her, would you say?

Starting point is 00:56:33 Of my mom? Well, I mean, yeah, when I'm trapped in my room, like, yeah, I mean, because, you know, I don't know, like, if I'm ever going to be free. I don't know if, like, you know, she literally has my phone. She literally disconnected all the home phones. Right. I just wasn't sure if it was something where it was like you kind of just were so used to it that it was just, it seemed like almost, okay, this is just how my life is. Well, I was used to it too, and I did, like, kind of like, is how my life is. But I never wanted to accept that.

Starting point is 00:57:00 Right. I was like, I'm never going to sit there. and accept that. Like, there has to be something better. And that's why I started praying to God. Because, like, there has to be more to this than what I'm going through right now. There's no way for this is just going to be the rest of my life. My mom's always going to stalk me.

Starting point is 00:57:17 No. Right? I'm not going to accept that. So that's why I kept fighting. Even after getting so many, like, I guess, rejections from social workers and help lines and people just not believing me, I kept fighting. So that fighting spirit, I was like, no, I was like, someone's going to believe me eventually.

Starting point is 00:57:34 Someone's going to listen to me. And so, yeah, eventually that day when the third time that I saw that social worker, she came to my house and she told my mom, she's like, I need to talk to your daughter by it alone outside. And the mom said, no, like, I need to be there. And she's like, dude, it's just like in the front yard. Like, it's fine, you know? And the social worker, like, there's seven-year-olds, like, you know, riding their bikes

Starting point is 00:57:57 here by themselves in the, like, the neighborhood. Like, what's wrong? Like, why can't your 17-year-old daughter come out? outside and like, like, you know, I was like, no, because I don't let her go outside alone without me being there watching. I was like, just started like losing, just freaking out, bawling her eyes out crying. She's like, I never leave Shanney unsupervised. Like, she's always supervised by me. Like, I don't let her home alone. So she's admitting all this. She's like, I don't let her home alone. She's like, I don't let her come in the front yard by herself without me being there. I

Starting point is 00:58:23 don't let her out of my sight. Like, you know, it's always either me or my sister that's there, but she's never without one of us. And so they're like, okay, well, like, actually what I'm saying was true and I'm like well yes because I wasn't lying about this and so social worker actually knows just like oh shoot like this is bad so they called the police actually too and and so it was a whole thing and I don't remember the police came like right at I don't really I'm not that part of it's kind of a blur because I know I talked to the police again later on that day I don't know if they were on the phone with the police but the police actually showed at my house but I know I did see them later on.

Starting point is 00:59:03 But anyways, but in that moment, yeah, like, social worker was like, this is really serious. Like, you know, like, something has to, like, be done about this. So she actually offered me the opportunity to be emancipated. So, like, basically, like, I would live alone. So, like, basically it's, like, not, like, in foster care because I guess, like, I'm 17. So it's like, I mean, I guess I could have also gone to foster care, but I really didn't want to go to foster care. But then, like, be emancipated. like I can live alone because I'm also 17.

Starting point is 00:59:32 It's like I'm kind of close enough to be of age. So, but the thing is that, so I chose not to, I chose not to go to foster care or to be emancipated. And sometimes I'm like, maybe that's my biggest regret having not gone. Just because I could have avoided a lot of other crap later on.

Starting point is 00:59:50 But I was just, one with foster care, I was just really scared that it was going to be a worse situation. And with being emancipated, since I had no life skills, like I'd just learned how to tie my hair that year. I didn't know how to cook. I didn't know how to do laundry.

Starting point is 01:00:04 I didn't even know how to write a bus. I didn't even know how to go to a store and buy things. It was just not very realistic for me. Because even though like, like I knew I didn't have these skills. Like I really, I knew this. And the social worker actually said my mom that, or wrote in her paper, sorry,

Starting point is 01:00:19 that my, like, my social skills were like that of a 10-year-old or something like that. Like, way lower than my actual. actual age, not because I have special needs, but just because I just don't have any skills because I was never taught anything. Yeah, you weren't socialized at all, I feel like, you weren't allowed to. Like, I didn't even how to do laundry. Like, I didn't know how to use a laundry machine. Besides that, you weren't really allowed to grow up like your friends did. Yeah. You know, and have that freedom to find yourself. Like people are driving cars already. I might, you know, my friends are driving cars. They were babysitting other people's kids. Not being sad. You had no sense of

Starting point is 01:00:56 self or identity whatsoever. Yeah. So I'm like, I can't, I can't. I can't. I knew I couldn't live on my own. I know I can't survive on my own because I don't know how to cook. I don't know how to do laundry. I don't know how to, I didn't know how to, I'd never even been cleaned. I didn't even did my own bed. I didn't know how to make a bed.

Starting point is 01:01:09 Like, this is not realistic for me to go live on my own. And it's not because I have special needs, you know, but it's because honestly, if a kid is, like, say you grew up in a third world country, right? And you don't know how to read or write. That's not because you don't have special needs. That's just because you were never taught how to read it right. Someone who has never taught will not know those skills.

Starting point is 01:01:27 Right? And, but at first, of the social workers kind of believe my mom because in the beginning, when the social order would come, she would tell like, oh, well, look, she'd be like, shan tie your shoes. I'd be like, I don't know. And I'd be like, see, my daughter doesn't want to tie her shoes. See, my daughter doesn't have tie her hair. But, you know, in that moment when she kind of admitted to everything, that's when it's like, oh, well, now this is real, you know, so, yeah, so I remember that day, like, yeah, I was offered the opportunity, but I was like, you know what, I just, I, and it was all so much

Starting point is 01:01:58 just like I'm literally being told this like in one day I have to like make a decision. I'm like it's too much for me. I was just trapped in my roomhole. I'm like I can't really make a decision on whether or not I'm going to go live on my own or I'm going to go to foster care. So I was like, you know, I was like, I don't really want to do this, but I also don't want to have, I mean, I don't want to live obviously this particular in the same life. So what the social worker decided to do is like, okay, we're going to make an agreement.

Starting point is 01:02:19 So basically she had a paper, made my mom sign it and my dad. So basically my dad, when he came home from work, she was like signed here, but I was like, oh, he just signed there. He doesn't even know what's going to. going on really but he's just signing it um so anyways yeah my mom signed the paper and basically the rules were like I'm allowed to be home alone like so if my mom is goes runs errands like and my aunt's not there because my aunt obviously didn't live there she was just there for the summer so I'm a home like I'm allowed to be home alone and I she can't

Starting point is 01:02:47 force me to go do the errands with her really she can't and she also like can't force me to stay in my room like if I want to go outside of my friends in the daytime go to the mall that I'm allowed to do that and she can't like you know stalk me there right so she had all these like rules that she had to like oh and she wasn't allowed to take my phone away either oh she's not to take my phone away my cell phone if like you know I was behaving badly or whatever but like she wasn't allowed to disconnect all the home phones because she social workers said that's actually a safety issue because if there's an emergency there's a fire or there's something like that's actually like uh like illegal you know because it's like that could be like a crime actually like if something

Starting point is 01:03:23 happened to me and all the home phones are disconnected and I have no way of calling 911 so that's actually a whole other issue. So my mom and stuff I'm not allowed to do that anymore. So there's all these rules that my mom had to agree to. But see, this was not like a legally binding paper. It was just the paper which is a social worker made. But she hoped that my mom would take it seriously enough to be like,

Starting point is 01:03:41 okay, this is good and I'll back off, right? And I thought so too. Most of the mom being my mom, unless like you're threatening to like take her to jail, she's not going to like, even though she signs it, it's just like whatever for her, you know? Yeah. So anyways, after mom signs it,

Starting point is 01:03:57 I told the social worker, I said, well, I want to go to the corner store and get a slurpee. And it's like my first ever time that I would be able to, like, go outside by myself, walk to the corner store and get a slurpee. And social worker, I said social worker, and I go. And she said, yeah, like, you're free to do whatever now. Like, mom's on the paper. Like, you go to the store. And my mom was like still crying, freaking out and being like, no, no, no.

Starting point is 01:04:19 But like, she knew she technically like couldn't hold me back in a sense because she signed that paper. So I walked with the, and this is so embarrassing, like, I haven't really admitted this to anyone except, like, one friend this year. But, like, when I, when I walked out of my house that day for the first time by myself, the first person, because I had no friends really at this point anymore, right? Because nobody wanted my friend after, like, everything that had happened, my mom. So the first person I could think to call was, like, a helplined. And I called the helpline as soon as I left my house because I wanted to let them know the good news. I was happy that I was able to, like, and it was so embarrassing. So I was like, I never wanted to share with anyone because I was like, I called them and I said, hey, like, I'm actually for the first time today ever in my life going by myself to get a slurpee without my mom being there.

Starting point is 01:05:08 And I'm like 17 years old. And I was just so happy. I was so excited. I wanted to share that you can use with someone. And I had no friends to share it with. So I called the helpline. I mean, like, I think that, you know, obviously that's something that you can look at and be like, obviously this isn't the norm for kids. but I think that it's an important time to mention

Starting point is 01:05:29 because it does really set into perspective what you were going through and how sheltered you were, even just from something as simple as friends. Like, it is heartbreaking. It's very sad. Yeah, yeah, it was. So, I mean, yeah, so anyways, I make the call, and then I'm walking to the corner store, right?

Starting point is 01:05:49 Get my slurpy. No, actually, I didn't get my slurpy. So as I was walking to the corner store, I see a cop car start coming behind me. As I'm like right close to the corner store and I'm like, what the heck? And so I'm freaking out because I don't know why the cops were after me. Like I didn't do anything wrong. Like, so short control, I could go get my slurpee. So I literally just start running.

Starting point is 01:06:09 Like I just start, I don't stop. I just start running. And I can like go very far. Like I went to like almost the other side of town. The town was pretty small, but I went almost the other side of town. And so I'm just keep on going going. and the cop car just keeps chasing me. And they put their sirens on.

Starting point is 01:06:26 And I'm like, what is going on? And my mom's calling my phone, and I don't want to answer her. I'm like, what the frick is this? So I just keep going, going straight. And then eventually I get to the second corner store, which is like actually quite a bit further away is on the other side of the town. And once I get to that corner store,

Starting point is 01:06:42 the cop car just stops right in front of me, like, pulls right in front of me. So then I'm like, okay, shoot, now I'm screwed. So, and then he's like, stop. And I'm like, comes out of his car and tells me stop. ready and I'm like okay and he's like hey well I got to go to the bathroom so I'm like can I go to the bathroom first before you talk and he said yeah so I like ran to the corner store went to the bathroom because I'm like freaking I'm like what do I do now like I just went through all this today

Starting point is 01:07:02 why is the cops here I don't understand what I did wrong so anyways but I know I have to come out the bathroom because he's like literally waiting for me outside the corner store so I come out of the bathroom and then he's like you're not in trouble he's like I'm I just had to come because there was a report of a missing person and I'm like a missing person. Are you kidding me? I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, yeah, he's like, said he asked him my name, because, you know, he had my description. I guess I saw he knew it was me. And he's like, are you this person? And I said, yeah. And he's like, okay, well, is this your mom? And I was yeah, he's like, your mom phoned and reported you as a missing person. Like, she literally, like,

Starting point is 01:07:40 I don't even know the span of the time that I was on the phone with a helpline during that time, as it was literally just walking out of my house, walking towards a corner store. So as soon as I walked out of the house and social worker left, she just phoned. police right away and reported me is missing. Like insane. Yeah. She did that so quick. Because it's like literally like not even like 10 minutes in. And the cops are like yeah, so we just want to make sure you were safe. That's really why I was that was behind me. I was like, okay, well, I'm fine. And then and then I said, but I don't think my mom would have called because no, like she signed a paper and everything. I'm explaining this to him and he's like, no, she did. And I'm like, no, I kind of, I don't know

Starting point is 01:08:18 why I didn't believe it. So then he tells me the phone number that called. And I was like, oh, yeah, she, that is our home phone number. And I was like, I guess that is my mom. So then I'm really mad at my mom. And I call her. And I'm like, dude, did you really call the police and I'm pregnant with this person? She's like, no, I didn't.

Starting point is 01:08:30 She's like, it must have been the neighbors. Like, why would the neighbors have called? Like, they didn't. Yeah. Wasn't she calling you a million times anyway? Yeah. And we weren't even close to their neighbors. Like, they didn't talk about neighbors.

Starting point is 01:08:40 I'm like, why would the neighbors think I'm missing anyways? Like, that's so ridiculous. I'm like, no, you phone. But see, here's the thing. I don't know if she really, like the thing I still I'm not sure of is I don't know if she really knows that she phoned them or not. Or like if she was just going through like an episode where like she didn't even, like I don't know if she realized that she had phoned them,

Starting point is 01:08:59 the pardon me is missing or if she didn't. You know, I don't know if she was like through like her freaking out because it's my first time leaving without her. I don't know if she just like automatically phone 911 and didn't realize that she was doing that or or if like she deliberately did it, you know. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe in her head, maybe she thinks she didn't do it. And maybe she doesn't know that she did it. I don't know. But either way, I'm like, at this point, like, the cops told me that it's the phone number of their home phone, so I know she did it. Either if she believes it or not, I know my mom called. Because I just don't, I know the neighbors wouldn't have called.

Starting point is 01:09:31 And then, like, they contacted my social worker and stuff. And they're like, yeah, we know, like, social worker went and it's like, it's fine, you're fine. You can just go on, get your slurpy, do whatever you want. And I'm like, great. So thank you very much. And he actually told me, He's like, you have a good head on your shoulders. He even told him I should be a cop. And I was like, oh, I was like, I don't know about that. But thank you. So, anyway, it's got my slurpy.

Starting point is 01:09:52 And then I, the second thing I did, I was like, I'm going to go to the bank and get my own bank card. I was like, I need to get a debit card. I didn't know how to do it, but I'm like, I'm going to show up the bank and get one because I know everyone else has one. And I think I need this. Yeah. So. Were you working or not yet?

Starting point is 01:10:07 Well, so during the summer, there was a period of time when I did have a summer job. But I got fired because my mom and my aunt were always there. Like, they were always at the store, like, following me in. So I was like, no workplace wants that. No. It's just, it's awkward. Yeah. Because, like, when I was allowed to do things outside of the house, like, when there was

Starting point is 01:10:26 a period of when I was also just trapped in my room where I was allowed to leave my room. But then there was also a period of time when I was, like, when I was allowed to go and do things, like they always had to be. Just fully monitoring. Yeah. Supervised. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not like I didn't work a job by myself.

Starting point is 01:10:39 But that job was a blessing because I met one of my best friends who really, like, helped me a lot like I mean her family's just incredible like they've done so much for me like she's helped me like she's helped me like I mean with a place to stay like you know like later on like you know when I would need a place to like go like you know she would like have me her house like I could stay there and they would for family would feed me so much like I could just sleep there you know they had like a bed made for me like they've just done so much and they didn't even have a lot Like, they probably had less of my family, but they've, but they're just such good people that, you know, yeah, like, it was just, it was such a God thing, too, that I met her. Like, I knew, like, it was, I think, like, I just got that job just to meet her probably. It's probably what it was. But anyway, so after that summer, I went to my grade 12 years in my last year of high school. Uh, so the paper that she had signed, like I said before, it was not like, uh, like a court order paper, right? It was just, like, a regular paper. So two weeks later, she decided not to follow it anymore.

Starting point is 01:11:44 She couldn't abide by it. It was too much for her. So she started following me around in the neighborhood. If I was like, I'm going to go over for a walk, she would be right behind me. Like, she was starting that thing all over again. And I'm like, uh-uh, you're not allowed to do this because you signed a paper. But because it's not legally binding, she doesn't care. So I found a social worker.

Starting point is 01:12:01 And I'm like, hey, well, my mom's, like, doing this again. Like, she's following me and stuff. And so eventually they had to get a court, like, order. And so, like, literally it's like, okay, if you now do it. these things, you're going to get arrested. So that's what eventually stopped her from doing this. And now in my grade 12 year, by the way, so I'm in my last year of high school.

Starting point is 01:12:20 Like, I'm about to turn 18 this year. So it's like, oh my gosh, it was crazy that she's still doing this. And then one day my vice principal pulls me, and this is when I found out my mom was always in the parking lot of the school. So one day, my grade 12 year, my vice principal, he pulls me into his office. And he's like, hey, I want you to see something on our cat. And he's like, I want to tell you something. and I'm like, okay.

Starting point is 01:12:42 And he's like, so, I don't know if you're aware, but your mom is here like half the day. And I'm like, no, she's not. I didn't think that. I really didn't think so. Because, like, she always told me that she was doing things. She's like, she told me that she's like yoga classes or whatever. And she's like, and that she, like, had errands to rent.

Starting point is 01:12:56 She always told me that she did all these other things. So I just, I don't know, I kind of just believed her, you know? And I'm like, no, that's not trim. Well, I'm just Aaron. She's like, she's like, she's like, she's not in the parking lot. And he's like, no, she is. And if you don't believe me, I can prove to you it's on our cameras. And also my office is right in front of there, and I can see her car.

Starting point is 01:13:16 Like, I can literally stay from my office. Like, she comes here around lunchtime and stays up until the end of school or up until the end of my extracurricular activities. And other kids had noticed, but I just had never noticed, I guess. And so eventually the school had to put a restraining order in my mom. Really? So she wasn't even allowed to now go on school grounds from, like, a certain time to a certain time. And not even just that.

Starting point is 01:13:40 They actually had extended it. So, like, my high school, like, um, so, like, if you think about it, like, there was a whole strip, right? It's, like, really long. So from where my high school was, she wasn't allowed from there all the way to, like, where the Starbucks and, like, the 7-Eleven was. And that was, like, really far walk. It was, like, a 10-minute walk. She was banned from that whole entire property from, like, I can't remember what hours, but it was, like, certain hour in the morning to the start out of nothing. She wasn't allowed on that property at all.

Starting point is 01:14:05 Right. Basically, when you'd be there. Yeah. She wasn't allowed to be on there. because they're like, no, this is crazy. And because also students were starting to make, like, false allegations, just because they're so used to my mom. It's uncomfortable, too.

Starting point is 01:14:17 It's just, like, nobody, she doesn't need to be there. There's no reason for that. No, but it was just, like, it was getting a lot because, like, I know, like, one guy one time, and he was just being silly. Like, I mean, like, he was just being a teenage boy, but, like, just because, like, it was kind of getting serious. That's why the school didn't want it, because, like, he was saying, oh, like, he said that, like, my mom, like, asked him to go on a day or he slept with him,

Starting point is 01:14:37 something like that. And it was not. true. Like it was that was not true. Yeah. And the school knew that wasn't true. But just because like students started saying that just because they got so used to see her. Right. So because like now it's like, now because like boys that are like under age are saying that, it's like not good. So that's why they're like, well, yeah, she can't be there anymore. Right. So yeah. So my mom got a restraining order from my school. And then I got a court order for me. So she wasn't allowed to do all these things. And then so I had to go to court against my mother when I was in grade 12.

Starting point is 01:15:09 And, you know, my school counselor, I also had a different school counselor after the first one, but the other one said, you know, she's like, you know, this age, like, you shouldn't be worrying about, like, you know, like, surviving and, like, you know, and going to court against her mom. Like, you should be worrying about, like, like, your homework and, like, what boys do you like? Not this. Like, this would not be, like, the reality of 17-year-old, you know? And, like, this is my reality. And I almost didn't graduate high school because, like, I was, I was, not the smartest kid,

Starting point is 01:15:38 but I definitely could have done a lot better. But the thing is that my priorities weren't even on studying. Like, they weren't even on doing homework. Like, I was failing all my classes because, like, because of what was going on at home. So, like, I couldn't even, like, there was, I feel like, there was no sense of, like, stability. You didn't know what was going to happen next, you know, or how bad it would be, I feel like. Or, like you said, you know, at times if you were just going to be locked in your room forever. No, I didn't even want to go home.

Starting point is 01:16:08 Like I would sometimes stay at school just like hanging out in the hallways when like everyone was gone just because I didn't want to go home because I was scared also to like what kind of mom would I come home to because also like she would get very angry. Then after that, after all of that and after going to court, like she started getting very mad at me. Right. Because now she's like, because she had to pay like so she paid some of the best lawyers on the island because, you know, because I mean obviously she's an adult and she's my dad's money and I have no money. I'm just 17. So obviously I couldn't defend myself in court. as good as she could because I just had the lawyer from like, you know, basically like the public, right?

Starting point is 01:16:43 Like I had like the, so so my mom kind of like, I guess like not kind of one in court in a sense if that makes sense. Like not that she was a lot of stocked me still and do all these things. Like that was still in place that she couldn't do these things. But in a sense like she didn't get as much like like, you know, she didn't really get like in trouble for anything just because like she paid a really good lawyer. And her lawyer was like, like, you know, I mean, obviously lawyers will lie for you if you pay them. Right.

Starting point is 01:17:11 And so obviously, yeah, they were saying, oh, yeah, she has special needs. Like, you know, obviously, lawyer is going to say I have special needs. And my mom even paid a psychologist to write a paper about me having special needs. But with no testing done. Well, I had some testing done when I was a kid. But there wasn't anything like where it was like I had special needs. So I have OCD. Right.

Starting point is 01:17:30 But like I mean. But that's mental illness. It's not even special needs. But I'm saying in the sense of when they wrote the paper. They just, it was all assumptions and whatever. It was just like my mom like basically paid a, paid someone to write a paper. Okay. Because she wanted me to look bad.

Starting point is 01:17:46 Yeah. Like, you know? Mm-hmm. Because I mean, like, yeah, I got tested for like, I mean, I got diagnosed with like OCD and like, and like complex PTSD. But those are mental illnesses. That's not even, that doesn't even categorize as special needs. Yeah. So it's, so it's like that, yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:04 But my mom just, yeah, she used my dad's money. so she would just pay all these people because she could. And I couldn't. I mean, obviously, I had more freedoms now because there was a court order place that, like, even though, like, she went through these orders and everything, if she actually were to breach this,

Starting point is 01:18:19 she could still get arrested. But she was really angry at me after that, like, really angry, obviously, because she had to, like, you know, invest time and money and all this into, like, basically going to court against her daughter. So after that, I was really scared to go home. Like, then I actually became, like, more scared. at my mom. Because I was actually scared at this point.

Starting point is 01:18:38 Like what's she going to do? How she can react? Like, I never knew what kind of mom I would come home to. So that's why after that, I just wanted to stay at school all the time after school. I would never want to leave because I was just scared that my mom would come home and abuse me and say things to me. And then my mom, yeah, and then she got worse in a sense because at first time when I was a kid, like she was just nicer. She was just controlling. Right. But she wasn't saying mean to me.

Starting point is 01:19:02 But then like she started really like that year. like she just started really like because she had to like I guess like I don't know mess me up in some way so she had to like do something to affect me so and this is where I this is where the this is where the biracial part comes in so when I said I was I grew up in biracial home so my mom started being racist towards me for being half Asian which is so crazy yeah so she would say things like oh you know like you're not you're not Asian you're like from me. So like, it doesn't really count. And I'm like, well, my dad is full Asian. So that literally makes me 50, 50, 50% white and 50% Asian. Because my dad is full Asians. What do you mean?

Starting point is 01:19:46 And she's like, no, but like, you're not really because you're like it from me, you know? And she's telling me how much, like, she hated Asian people and how my dad should. And then she started, like, telling me, like, oh, how my dad should go back to his country and say that his family should go back to their country. And she starts saying stuff like that. Horrible. Like being like, yeah, like, she's like, But I was like, you know, you realize that you're saying this about my dad, but I'm literally like, this is really offensive. Yeah. And she'd be like, well, I'm not telling you that, but I'm just like, you know, saying like they don't really like belong here.

Starting point is 01:20:17 Because my mom was also a white supremacist. She was like, well, Canada's like a white people country. Like we don't. Yeah. So, and then I would hear that a lot. Yeah. Which you wouldn't tell me when I was a child, but I don't know. I guess she was mad and she had to try to attack me and attack my dad somehow.

Starting point is 01:20:33 Yeah, she had a, it's still that form of control. And she would like hang it over my dad's head. You know, whatever he did wrong after that or whatever she didn't like, she would tell him, well, you know what, I can get you deported. But my dad has sizanship. So it's like, okay, like how. But she would say these things. And then I would just hear this every day at home.

Starting point is 01:20:52 As well, I didn't want to go home because I was just tired of hearing that every single day. It's negativity constantly. It was always negativity. And when I had Hispanic friends, she started saying, oh, well, they're all in the cartel. Or they're all rapists. and she would say, oh, I mean, listen to her friends, oh, they're all terrorists. So she actually made these comments on a daily basis. Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention when I was also, before I was allowed to actually go out,

Starting point is 01:21:20 before all the, like, before all my freedom happened, she would actually, this was also another thing that was in the agreement that the social worker had put down because my mom also did fear tactics with me, so she didn't, so she also like almost wanted it to make it in a way. so that I wouldn't want to go outside, right? So she would try to control my mind, and she would print out paper, like print out news stories of girls getting raped and getting killed.

Starting point is 01:21:46 Every single day she would read these to me. I forgot to mention that. She would read these to me every day and be like, see, this is what happens when you go outside without your parents' supervision. Had those girls, their parents have been there, do you think they would have been raped and killed? No.

Starting point is 01:22:00 And then, yeah, that was part of the agreement that she wasn't allowed to read me those papers anymore and wasn't allowed to do that, because that's crazy. And also she wanted me to like almost, almost wanted to make it also that I wouldn't want to have friends and that would be fearful of my friends because she'd be like, she'd tell me these stories of like how like, you know,

Starting point is 01:22:15 friends had like, like really rare cases, but you know where like friends had like, you know, murdered their friends and, you know, like she'd pull out these articles and be like, oh, have you heard of that girl who got killed by her friends? Your friends lured her and she thought they were her friends. But look, they killed her. So how do you know your friends aren't going to do that to you?

Starting point is 01:22:33 So do you think, And you might get to this. So if I'm jumping ahead, let me know. But looking back on things and reflecting back, do you think that your mom truly had this fear about your safety? Or do you think it all came from wanting to simply control you and being a nutcase? I think both. Okay.

Starting point is 01:22:54 I think both because one day, I remember one night she did tell me no. And it seemed pretty sincere and genuine. so I guess I could take it but she said you know she's like the reason why I'm like this with you is because I just never wanted you to go through what I went through so just trying to protect you from that from like you know because she told me that she'd gotten raped in the past and so she just wanted to protect me from that and how old was the brother that passed away your brother oh like a baby he died as an infant okay because like it makes me wonder if that had an effect as well just like losing a child and then maybe like going over to you having you if that was something where it's

Starting point is 01:23:38 like no it had nothing to do with that okay no my mom was just i think she likes control and i think that yeah i think she likes control and i think that she kind of did have a fear because she said she got raped so i think that it was kind of like that for me like also she's worried about me getting raped But also it's like you can't go to those extents Just because, you know, like I mean like if a kid's gonna get raped Then I mean, I don't know Like it's I mean

Starting point is 01:24:08 You can't yeah like as a parent You can't helicopter and you can't You can't help everything Yeah you can't prevent every situation It's a scary world but it's the truth And it's like you know At least she could have given me tips Okay like maybe

Starting point is 01:24:21 You know avoid these places at night You know don't do these certain things You know if you don't like you know If you want bad things to happen You avoid these places you know, like if a man does this to you, like, you know, like, this is what you should do, right? Not be like, oh, well. A stalker.

Starting point is 01:24:37 Yeah, like a stalker. And locking you inside. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. So anyways, yeah, my last year of high school, I mean, things kind of got better in the sense that I was had freedom. But then it kind of was like how mentally because her mental health was because like she would just say all these things to me, you know, like every single day. And I think really the only thing that helped me through that was like having God because like Um

Starting point is 01:25:05 Because like remember how in the beginning I or like more in the beginning I said like how I wanted to do drugs every day Because like I wanted to be high and I wanted to like escape my reality because I was just so tired of seeing the way my life was So basically like when I started praying to God though I had started seeing small changes like small improvements in my life I want to say things were like 160 getting better But like after that point right like he brought the social workers into my life right the social workers like the social worker helped me the last one that I had and then I was actually starting to do better in school like I wasn't failing my classes anymore and I was like she started to make friends I started to make friendships and so

Starting point is 01:25:42 that was really good and so I felt like yeah like God helped me and then I had actually begged my mom to like let me go to church because I don't know like after that I was like can you know if this is really real so I begged my mom and say can I go to church and obviously I was like can I go to church and obviously she said no because she was like super anti-christian as well so like and later on when i became a christian like that was a huge like like like red flag for her but like anyways i asked her said can't go to church i just need to see if it's real and like it was weird because like every time like i would walk past the church like the year prior like i was felt like i had to go inside i didn't even know why like i didn't even like believe in god but i was like i don't know i just feel

Starting point is 01:26:18 like i have to go so anyways that's mom can i go and she's like okay fine but only if it's Catholic Church because she grew up like loosely Catholic but wasn't actually ever Catholic, you know, like just like, I don't know, like went to a Catholic school as a child and like would go to church, like maybe like on like, like, like, she would just go to a Catholic church like on like a special occasion, you know, but that doesn't make her like. But anyway, she said, yeah, like, I'll take you. And so like, which was really surprising. So eventually she took me and I remember that day like the priest was giving a homily about like, it's like a sermon like about like, um, gossiping and stuff and I dealt with a lot of people gossiping about me obviously because my mom

Starting point is 01:26:56 and I just really resonated with that and then I just like basically gave all my burdens to God like I just prayed for the cross and then I walked out and I felt so free like I just felt like physically like everything that I'd been carrying like it just had rolled off my shoulders I'm not saying my life became perfect after that really far from that but but what I mean is like those thoughts that I had before of like wanting not be sober and all those things it all went away Like, I never, I never went back to those thoughts. So that really, yeah, that really shifted. Like, and then the priest told me joining the youth group, and I joined the youth group.

Starting point is 01:27:34 My mom had never allowed me to join a youth group when I was a kid. Like, I wanted to join my other friends' youth groups as a kid. My mom was like, no. And, and yeah, and then I did. And, and then I eventually went to, like, a Christian church later on, which wasn't Catholic. and that caused a lot of turmoil for my mom because I had a friend musical theater because I was doing musical theater as an extracurricular and one of my friends there told me, oh, I go to this church, come to my youth group, and I was like, yeah, it sounds

Starting point is 01:28:05 fun, and my mom freaked out and was saying that it was a cult, and then she thought I was part of a cult, and it was a whole thing, and basically she told me that if I get baptized, that she would take me out of the house. and I got baptized. I waited a long time to do it because I was scared of that I was like she didn't get kicked out. But she didn't kick me out of the house. So that was good. But she didn't talk to me for like a whole like 24 hours.

Starting point is 01:28:28 Like she was really mad at me. Anyways, later on, I ended up finishing graduating my high school. Oh, so COVID happened not long after. Because I graduated in 2019. Okay. And so like 2020 is when like COVID hit. Because it was like between right before COVID, like I could have taken a gap year. But I was still sitting at my parents' house.

Starting point is 01:28:47 I had a fund of money that came to me when I was 19 that I could use because I got in a car accident basically when I was like a young child. And but basically they don't give you that much. It was like basically when that happened like I was entitled to money, but they don't give you that money until you're 19 because I don't know. They just wait until you're an adult. So when I got it at 19, I was like, I have to get out of my mom's house because now like I really can't do this anymore. Right? And so I'm like, no, I'm an adult now. I think I can live on my own.

Starting point is 01:29:15 I've already graduated high school. And so I would rent these places, like not in different cities. Like I was still staying in Victoria. I was still staying nearby. But I would rent different places. But the thing is that I don't know. I just never felt like I could survive without my mom. You know how the thing where I was like, even though I was renting places,

Starting point is 01:29:33 I would keep going back. And I would keep going back. Even though I knew it was bad because I think that I was honestly like Albert Einstein's definition of insanity. Like I thought that like if I go back, then I'll have a different outcome. Or at least it's not I wanted. I was hoping that, like, next time I go back to my parents' house, that, like, it's going to be different. It's going to be different.

Starting point is 01:29:51 But obviously, every time it's never different. It's always the same. It was always the same negativity. Always the same comments that she would make. It was always the same stuff. But for some reason, I always thought I can't survive without her. Because, like, I don't know how to do my laundry at first. I didn't know how to cook.

Starting point is 01:30:04 And I was like, and I felt like I can't survive without her. And when I went to therapy, my therapist said, it's because usually people who tend to be abused and not just, like, relationship-wise, but, like, even with family, people who tend to have go through abuse tend to want to go back to their abuser it's like a cycle that like people it's like a psychological thing that and it's really hard to break out of like it took me many years later actually to get out of that like I'm 25 today and it took me pretty much like really be okay with be alone took me like until it's 24 like it took me a really long time to realize like I don't need my mom but I always felt like when I was living alone I need her and that's why I would

Starting point is 01:30:45 keep going back and going back and going back. And so eventually, like, I just stopped renting houses and I would just move back in and it was a really bad decision. The thing is that I didn't even want to be there and I don't know why I would do this to myself. And now, like, the social workers can't really help me because I've kind of aged out, right?

Starting point is 01:31:02 So I'm, I'm no longer of, like, I'm no longer a child. So what I, what I end up doing is I ended up calling a woman's shelter and I was like, hey, like, I need to, I want to know if the guys can take me in. and help me. And this is another big thing I want to touch on as well. But, like, I think that it's very upsetting that women's shelters only, like, only accept women that have been abused by partners. Because they, because they told me no. They said unless it's, like, partner abuse, and it's, then, no, we only take, we only take, like, a partner abuse

Starting point is 01:31:36 people here, not family. Because family is, like, it's different. It's your family, no. But I'm like, hey, but even if it's my family, like, I didn't choose this. Like, why am I, I have to like live in this. That's surprising. I didn't know that. Yeah. And they and they refused me. So I couldn't even go to a woman's shelter. And I'm like, great. So like nobody really wants to like help yet again.

Starting point is 01:31:56 Help out a girl when it comes to your family. Yeah. It's crazy. Oh. And one thing I did forget to mention too beforehand. I'm like going back and forth. But I'm just like remembering pieces. But shortly after like the court order happened with the social worker,

Starting point is 01:32:14 my mom had actually, um, was so upset that she had told me, I knew this was like just a manipulation tactic, honestly, but she had told me one day she said, I'm going to commit suicide. She's like, you're going to find me dead with a note that I've committed suicide because like, honestly, I just can't handle this anymore. It's too much for me. But like, I knew she was just, like, like, saying that. But I was like, I want her to understand the consequences of her words. So I was like, because you said that, I was like, I'm still going to remember. report that. So I still called 911 and said, hey, my mom's suicidal. She said that she's going to commit suicide because she literally told me I'm going to commit suicide and you're going to

Starting point is 01:32:50 find me with a note. So I said, I said that to them and the cop showed up and yeah, and then my mom got put into the psych ward. Wow, for how long? Two days. And the social worker was real upset. She's like, I don't know why they wouldn't keep her there longer. That woman's really crazy. Because my mom said to them, oh yeah, I wasn't, that was true. I was just mad. I just said that. I wasn't actually suicidal. And because she technically wasn't, they said, okay, you're free to go. It's crazy. So then she could just come back and, and then obviously that's also why she was mean to be after too because she hated me even more for that. Yeah, but basically that's the big point. I just wanted to emphasize was like that I think that something needs to change

Starting point is 01:33:29 also with like women's shelters, you know, that like not accepting someone based on their abuse being from their family, that's not okay. Like, you know, like they should like they should be taking people for family abuse because it's like they have nowhere to go. Like, you know, it's not like someone can just, not everyone can also just afford to go on their own and buy rent. And I mean, like, the thing is that, like, when you've, when you've been abused, you might not know, like, you know, how to transition out of that, you know?

Starting point is 01:33:58 And so I think that it would be really important if women's shelters started accepting girls, because, you know, I think that could also really help me from not always going back to my parents' house and going back in those patterns. And, yeah, because that year, It was just, it was a lot. And, you know, I tried going to school

Starting point is 01:34:20 the year after that, so not the year right after high school, but the year after I tried going to school, but the thing is that, I don't know, I had like a running away problem. Like every single time I would go to a school, I just like wouldn't finish. Like I wouldn't, I never like finished any school I went to.

Starting point is 01:34:39 Like I would just like always have a suitcase right next to my bed. And I would just constantly, like, pack my suitcase and, like, like, my pet peeves always my back to my parents' house. Sometimes I would, like, leave for, like, weeks, I wouldn't tell people why I left. And people were, like, you know, kind of worried. My friends were, like, where'd you go? Why'd you leave?

Starting point is 01:34:59 And I don't know, I just had this feeling inside of me that, oh, I have to go back. My parents, I have to go back. I can't survive without them. I can't survive without them. And it was just this thing that kept going on my head. Well, mainly my mom, but I was like, you know, I can't survive without or I have to go back. I have to go back. And so that was really tough.

Starting point is 01:35:15 And so eventually I ended up, it was like, you know what, maybe just like living on my own at school and dorm, it's just not ideal. Maybe I just, maybe I should just go like, be with a family member. You know, maybe that will be like more familiar, safer. So, and at this point when I was like 19, I started, I started developing a really good relationship with my dad's sister. My aunt, like she lived in different province. So she lived in Ontario. But I remember there was like one day she came for a visit. and the wintertime and we talked and we just really hit it off and I guess like I don't know I

Starting point is 01:35:50 hadn't really because since she lives so far I just I didn't really had a relationship with her but we talked and we had a really good bond and she gave me her number and I would and whenever I would have like issues with my mom I would call and text her and that's actually how I found out about the whole thing about when I was a baby when my mom had like left my dad for three months and and had taken full custody of me because my aunt later on when I had developed that relationship with It's when she told me all of that. So she shared all that story with me. And she told me, like, you know, their family was quite upset about, you know,

Starting point is 01:36:21 my whole outside family was really upset with my mom, being mad because they all knew that she's just using him for money. But for some reason, like, he's just, I don't know, he doesn't see it or he's just too brainwashed. I don't know what it is, but it's really unfortunate. So my aunt, yeah, my aunt was definitely really mad at my mom about it. But, you know, I decided, like, hey, what if I decided, like, hey, what if I did. just go sit yours for a bit, you know? And my, because the flights were cheap during that time was

Starting point is 01:36:49 like during 2020, during COVID. So it's like, yeah, flights were really cheap. And I was like, you know, I'll just take a flight. And my aunt said, yeah, like, I'd love to have you. And I'd love that your dad could come as well. And so I thought, like, you know, I'm going there for, technically I was going for a better life. Because I thought, like, you know, I'm going to be away for my mom. And at least I'll be with my family. So maybe I won't want to run away, especially because I'll be like all the other side the country so basically so when I was 20 I went to live with my aunt and so when I went initially like she was really happy to have me you know where she picked me up from the airport and she brought me nice coffee and I was like oh it was like she's like this is for

Starting point is 01:37:27 you and I was like oh thank you and she's really nice you know and I and then she told me that night that we were going to go to grocery shopping that I could get whatever I wanted from the grocery store and she was going to buy it for me and I was like wow okay like this is really good and you know she had my own I had my own set up for me in the basement. She had like a spare room. But as things progressed throughout the week, she just started changing towards me.

Starting point is 01:37:51 Like, she had almost started using me as her Cinderella. Like, so, like, she had two sons. And she would make me, like, clean, like, the whole house when their friends would come over. And I wasn't allowed to partake in there. Like, if they had friends over, like, had bonfire, I was allowed to be part of the bonfire. I just had to clean and make sure that everything was good for their

Starting point is 01:38:10 friends before they came. So she would tell me, like, clean the bathroom, like, clean this, clean that. Remember one day I took a walk outside and I was really happy and come home and she started selling me and telling me to clean up. I think what happened was just she, I guess like I reminded her a lot of my mom, just like, and she couldn't really like, I think it was just too much for her, like having me there and knowing that like I'm my mom's daughter and like she really hated my mom, which I mean for understandable reasons. Like, I mean, I get it. Like, like her either but you know but she just took it out on me because you know she would tell me things like oh that's not how you pronounce my name like you've never known how to pronounce my name but you never

Starting point is 01:38:48 care enough to like ask me how to pronounce it properly and and also because like I would call my mom even though like I wouldn't see her in person because like I still had that thing where it's like you know it was really hard for me to attach because even though I guess my mom did a lot of bad things to me it's like, I guess it's still my mom, so it was really hard for me to, you know, like, and because I was still in that cycle where it's like, oh, I want to talk to my, my abuser, you know, it's like, I was wanting to go back and talk to my mom, so I would talk to my mom on the phone, but, so she's like, she got mad at me, I think, because of that, because she said, well, it doesn't make sense. You told me that you came here because your mom is doing all this stuff to you there,

Starting point is 01:39:30 but why are you still calling her, then? Why are you still in contact with her? And so because of that, she eventually kicked me out of her house. So she kicked me out after a week. She literally told me she's like, you're the byproduct of your mom, therefore you should just be with her because I think you're better off with her because it's calling her anyways. And she said to me, she said, I'm going to have my son drive you to the airport because you're my brother's daughter and I love my brother.

Starting point is 01:40:01 So that was the only reason why she got her son driving airport. And after that, we never had contact again. She wanted nothing to do with me and never wanted me to contact her ever again. She didn't even say bye to me or anything that day. Didn't say anything. And I was like, leaving, bothering my eyes out because I did not expect, like, because she was like now at this point the only family member that I really had. And now I lost, like, the one family member that I thought I had and was there for me.

Starting point is 01:40:26 And even when I was at her house, like, she did say something that was quite extreme about my mom. which like I mean I don't condone like this violence I don't condone like this violence but she said um she's like you know I'm surprised because like she knew how my mom could like make people really mad she like I know your mom has a way of making people really mad sometimes and she said I'm surprised that your dad hasn't beat her by now and so that was like

Starting point is 01:40:54 yeah not great so she definitely wasn't the person I thought she was because like even though like I mean yes like I know my mom is not the best person and I would never condone, you know, someone saying, like, to do harm to a female, you know, it's just not, especially if she's a woman herself. Like, I don't know why she would say that, but. So, yeah, after that, me and my aunt just had no more contact. But I tried reaching out to her a year later because I actually had a job interview up in Ontario. And I was like, can I just stay at your house, like, just for like a night, like, just to crash.

Starting point is 01:41:28 Like, I'm not even going to, like, you know. I just need a place to crash basically. I'm not even going to like, even I'll take the couch. I mean, usually had the spare room, but I was like, I'll just take the couch, whatever. And she was like, no, I don't want you contacting me. That was it. Yeah. And that was like the last thing I really heard from her was the year after when I asked her if I could just stay at hers for a night,

Starting point is 01:41:49 just because I was going to fly out to do a job interview. So, yeah, now I don't have any more family. And after, yeah, and after I left my aunt's house, I went back to my parents' house. because at this point I don't think I had a house. Like I hadn't rented any other place. So I was just back at my parents fully. So I just went back to my parents' house after that. And, but, you know, it was still a lot of hell at home.

Starting point is 01:42:15 Like, it was still always negativity and things like that. Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. I know I keep, like, going back and forth, but I just keep remembering things. When I was in my grade 12 year, one thing that my mom had said to me, I remember I was like a peer counselor. So it's like kind of like, you know, students like don't feel comfortable like telling like a counselor certain things and they can tell a peer because they might feel more comfortable with that.

Starting point is 01:42:43 So I was doing that. And in that train, like we had a training before we could be peer counselors. In that training, we had to learn about suicide prevention and all that stuff. Right. And so we came home with these pamphlets. And my mom happened to see them in my bag. and she also had caught a conversation of me actually texting with a friend who actually was suicidal but she had misread the conversation and thought it was me the suicidal person which i mean is fine

Starting point is 01:43:08 it happens to misread things but the thing is that she didn't confront me about it until two weeks later so and she thought i really wanted him with suicide she wouldn't have said anything because she confirmed me two weeks later and came laughing in my room she's like oh my gosh she saw these pamphlets in your conversation like are you are you really trying to kill yourself like are you really suicidal like go ahead do it she literally told me to to go kill myself. And yet I was still going back to her house. I don't know why, because I was hoping that she would change. I always hoped that she would change. So I just kept going back and going back despite my mom telling me that. Oh, and also, now that I say that too, I remember

Starting point is 01:43:46 when I was in grade 11, there was a, there was like a field trip with my leadership class, and we were going to go to this like indoor trampoline park and asked my mom if I could go and obviously that time like she said no not without my supervision because that was before like she had signed the papers and stuff and she said no not without my supervision and she got so mad that I asked her that when she was driving when I asked her and so as she was driving she literally ran the red light on purpose and there was a car coming on my side and she yelled go ahead hit me so it would like directly hit me yeah so I'm did some pretty psychotic stuff to me which is why like I really shouldn't I've kept talking to her after that.

Starting point is 01:44:30 So I understand my aunt's frustration for me continuing to talk to her. But at the same time, it's just like, I don't know. It was just really hard for me to become my own person. And I guess since I hadn't really learned independence, it was just so hard for me to become independent, especially with like no siblings around me, no family members, you know. Like I just hadn't no one that I was close with except that one aunt who had now kicked me out. And so anyways, going back to my parents' house,

Starting point is 01:44:58 The year after, I think it was just a lot mentally. Like, every single day I was getting yelled at. I was getting told things by my mom, like constant just negativity. Like, if it wasn't like about me being Asian, it was always something. There was always something. And I was like, this isn't good for mental health. Like, I have to leave. And at this point, like, I was more, I guess, like, I was more.

Starting point is 01:45:28 I really wanted to make the step. And so I decided to, well, I wanted to, like, have sugar datties at that point because, one, I just thought that, like, I just felt like God had kind of a, I don't know, I felt like it kind of, like, abandoned me in that moment. I felt like God's timing wasn't quick enough because I was like, you know, I, I really can't live like this anymore, you know? And I was like, why am I always constantly in this position? and so but I was too scared to like actually like doing anything with these men so that didn't really

Starting point is 01:46:03 so nothing really happened out of that but then the year later um when I was 22 I ended up getting a job in Vancouver so then I actually moved to Vancouver and that's the reason why I moved was because yeah I got offered a job but also because I wanted to like finally like try to be away from my mom And, you know, and obviously, like, since where I'm from, it's an island. So it'd be, like, a body of water separating us. And I thought, you know, if it's for a job, I might have less trouble going back and forth because then, like, at least I'll have something that would ground me. Like, you know, I'll feel like, you know, I'll feel more, like,

Starting point is 01:46:38 I felt like more responsibility towards a job than to school. So I thought, like, if this is a job, I'll probably stay. And it was still hard, but I did a better job at staying because, you know, I had to go to work. And so, yeah, I moved for the job. And because I was finally my opportunity to leave my mom. But, and so I worked in the airline industry for a year, so I got hired by an airline. But it wasn't, it was only part-time, and it was minimum wage.

Starting point is 01:47:03 I wasn't really making a lot of good money. So I, so the first four months that I moved to Vancouver, I was loving about myself there. Like, I had no roommates that just had my own, rented my own own place. But after that, you know, I kind of ran out of my fund and money that I had. And so I basically ended up broke with literally. none of that money anymore and so I couldn't afford living on my own so I had to then move in with roommates and basically in the span of that year it was wasn't 22 it was 2023 okay but I was 22 and I moved Vancouver because I was two months I was two months

Starting point is 01:47:42 shy of being 23 so it's like two months before my 23rd birthday yeah and yeah the first four months I lived alone but then I couldn't afford it so I ended up having to move with roommates and I was moving every single month of houses because it was like I was struggling I was only having a part I only had a part-time job working three days a week on minimum wage and Vancouver's housing market is it's quite expensive it's like probably the most expensive in Canada right now so it's like I obviously have not you know I it couldn't afford to actually stay in one place for so I actually had no stability there either so I just I didn't feel like I was and I was struggling like you know, there was days that I literally, like, had, like, no money for food.

Starting point is 01:48:30 Like, there is, like, there is, I was only, like, that first year I moved there, I was eating only once a day, not because I wanted to, but because I couldn't afford eating more than once a day. Because, like, I couldn't even make it buy barely with my rent because, because I was working three days a week on minimum wage, so I couldn't even afford my rent. So it was like, I, yeah, I was only eating once a day. And there was times when I was, I was only only one every day. And there was times when I had like only 50, 25 cents in my bank account. Like, I went, like, really bad. And so I would call my mom.

Starting point is 01:48:59 Sometimes I was going to be like, hey, like, could you help me out, give me money? And the only answer she would always give me was, no, like, call your friends. Ask your friends for help. So as I realized, I really don't have family, and all I have is my friends. But thankfully my best friend, like, she really helped me a lot. But I was kind of embarrassed, but I didn't always want to ask her for, like, money, you know, because I felt like, you know, I shouldn't. And so I then, yeah, I decided to like sell myself.

Starting point is 01:49:26 And then basically like I started doing that. And it was really a hit or miss because, you know, some guys were okay, but some guys, one of the guys, I met a guy that was really crazy. And like, I don't want to go too much in detail about it, but I almost died. And so it was like, yeah, I probably never going to do this again. But yeah, I honestly done it because I just, I wanted to survive. I wanted to eat. I want to be able to pay rent because I was at this point, like, I was starting to live on my own. And I was really like away from my parents.

Starting point is 01:49:59 I just didn't want to have to go back. And this point I was like, I will do whatever I can to not go back, you know. But eventually, I unfortunately lost my job in January of 2024. So then I was, and it was so hard to find work in Vancouver. like it's the job market's insane as well so I was out of work from like January until March I got offered a job to be an opair in Mexico so I moved to Mexico and I worked there as an opair for like a month and a half but I didn't really like Mexico like it was just I don't know like I had all my friends in Vancouver and I had my life there and and I just it was hard to

Starting point is 01:50:41 make friends in Mexico like it was just a very different it was just very different for me so I was like you know what I'm just gonna go back home so I went back to Vancouver even though like I knew I was gonna struggle a lot which I did oh no when I went back actually I didn't go back to Vancouver because I left everything in Vancouver before I go to Mexico so I left everything I had there and it's actually go back my parents house and that and I stayed there for like a month only a month and that was a mess like my mom was constantly like mentally emotionally psychologically abusing me so I was just like I can't do it so then I was just

Starting point is 01:51:18 myself again until I could just make enough money just to be able to afford a place in Vancouver. I'd move right back there and that's pretty much what I did. But throughout even those like months when I was like constantly moving in that year that I said like there was even periods of time where like actually didn't have a house. There are times when I ended up homeless. I think I end up like homeless like four times in a year, four times in one year or maybe four or five times. Yeah, but like, thankfully, I never had to sleep on the street because I had friends that were nice enough, you know, that they would let me in.

Starting point is 01:51:52 So I was basically, but I was like couch surfing, you know, one of our friends' couches, sometimes when I couldn't find a house. So I never had stability. I never knew I was going to live the next month. So it was really crazy. And then, yeah, and then when I left eventually after from a parent's house, from that one month when I stayed there and I moved back to Vancouver, I was still out of work. and I couldn't find work until like this summer. And then I worked at a strip club because that's what I could get, honestly.

Starting point is 01:52:26 But, I mean, honestly, working at a strip club, it was, I don't know, it wasn't, I mean, it was all right, like the money was good, but it's just like sometimes, you know, like you get drunk men that are just, they're just always the best, you know? So it wasn't just the best experience either, but I just was like, I cannot go back to my parents' house. Whatever I do, I cannot go back in that situation. So at that point, I was really dedicated to leaving.

Starting point is 01:52:55 And I was like, I will do whatever I can to not have to go back there. Because at this part, I was like 24. So this was like just last year. And I was like, I'm not going to go back. So, yeah, I, and then I ended up finding work again in the fall. And then I worked for a company. And it was nice. I worked hybrids.

Starting point is 01:53:13 I worked from home three days a week and two days in office. and yeah, and eventually that was a seasonal contract. So then once my contract ended, well, that was that. And yeah, now basically, like, I'm just, I'm making music now. And, you know, obviously, like, I'm doing podcasts as well and I'm doing modeling as well now. So now I live on my own. Finally, I've been able to, like, stop moving every single month. And I've been able to, like, actually have my own place.

Starting point is 01:53:45 Now I have my own two-bedroom, like, basement suite, which is great. And I love it. And I would never want to go back with roommates ever again. But, you know, I think, yeah, I think I'm just really happy to be able to, like, show that, like, you know, you can come from a really rough place, but you can be okay in the end. And, you know, and now I'm 25 today. And, yeah, and I'm just, and now I'm, like, doing better than ever. I mean, yeah, now I don't need to depend on my mom. and I can fully be alone.

Starting point is 01:54:16 I don't have to go back. You know, and I could just be at peace where I am. But it did take me a lot of years to be there. And I think that making music is also, like, helping me too because, like, right now I'm working on a song that's, like, about my life story. Yeah, and so it's just, like, it's also helping me, like, process that

Starting point is 01:54:37 and just be able to, yeah, just process everything that I went through. But, yeah, I mean, today, I'm doing a lot better and I'm happy. And I really thank God that, you know, I didn't die and that nothing too bad happened. That, you know, I'm here now, you know, and I'm finally free. Yeah. How long has it been since you've talked to your mom and dad? My dad, I never really had a relationship with him, to be honest.

Starting point is 01:55:06 Like, yeah, ever since that time I told you, the video store, everything just ended. But I actually had seen him at a mall. like a few months ago. And when I saw him, I actually wanted to say hi to him. And he looked at me and I looked at him. And he like actually just looked away immediately to pretend like he didn't know me. Like I'm like just wanting to like not have eye contact to be like, I don't know. Maybe he just felt weird.

Starting point is 01:55:32 So I went up to him and I was like, hi. And that was kind of awkward. And then your mom? How long has it been? Well, I still talk to her every now and again just because like, but I don't see her. I don't go, like, actually to her house and, like, spend, no, because I'm over that. Yeah. Like, I'm like, that's not happening anymore.

Starting point is 01:55:52 I feel like at least, like, I know I shouldn't really be doing phone calls with her either, but, like, at least now I'm like, I have control over, like, if I don't like something she says and I can just hang out the phone. Yeah, you can set boundaries for your side. Exactly. So it's like, now I have more control over it, whereas, like, if I'm in the house there, then I have no control over what happens, right? But now at least if it's on the phone, then.

Starting point is 01:56:11 But I eventually I'm trying to also work to the point where, I can fully just cut it off. Yeah, not even have phone calls anymore. But, yeah. Yeah. Or at least I'll be a lot, there you go. Yeah, no. And, you know, I always tell people,

Starting point is 01:56:26 you have to give yourself a load of credit for being able to tell your story and share, like, the dark times and then where you are now. And obviously everybody's life has ups and downs. And it takes a process, you know, it takes time. and I think that it's something like you said whenever you and your heart and your gut feel like okay I'm ready to fully cut this contact that's your choice you know it's like I think that you can live a life knowing that okay yeah maybe like my mom doesn't deserve to have me in her

Starting point is 01:57:02 life but if there's something that is drawing you back or making you hold on like I'm a big believer and do what you feel. So it's like if you're feeling like that today and not tomorrow, you make those decisions day to day, you know? But no, I just, I think that it really does seem like you're doing amazing. And I'm very happy for you. And it seems like you're really doing things that you love, which is really important.

Starting point is 01:57:26 And I think it's amazing and important to find therapy and things that aren't just like a talking therapy, you know, like the music and things like that. So that's really amazing. And I would love for you to send me, like, links or anything that you want. So I can link it and people can listen and follow along. Yeah, of course. Thank you.

Starting point is 01:57:44 Of course, of course. But no, I think you did an amazing job, really. There's many important aspects, you know, of your story. Like you said, I think the women shelter thing. I had no idea about that, you know, and that is very important. Yeah, that's something I really wanted to emphasize. This one really wanted to bring out because if any other girl is in that situation, I would hate for them to be turned away like I was turned away.

Starting point is 01:58:06 Right. Right, because abuse is abuse. Abuse is abuse. Yeah. No matter if it's from your parents or if it's from a partner. Like that should be taken to- And there's supposed to be there to help. So it's like it shouldn't matter what the type is or like where it's coming from.

Starting point is 01:58:18 So no, I definitely agree that that's important to talk about. Something should be done in regards to that for sure. Yeah, something needs to change. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. I had no idea about that. But, no, I thank you so much for wanting to open up and share your story on here. It means a lot to me.

Starting point is 01:58:34 And, you know, I always tell people, you know, I feel like I say to everybody. but it is true. It's like there's so many people that can relate to different parts of your story. You know, not everybody, of course, is going to have the same overall story as you. But there's always bits and pieces of like someone's story that somebody's going to be like, I get that, you know, or I felt that way before. Yeah. I went through that similar experience.

Starting point is 01:58:57 Yeah. So that's why I always say there's no story too big or too small. Yeah. You did an amazing job, really. Thank you. Of course.

We're All Insane - My Mom Held Me Hostage

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