We're All Insane - Raised by Narcissistic Mother

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Thanks HelloFresh! Go to HelloFresh.com/ALLINSANE50 and use code ALLINSANE50 for 50% off plus free shipping! Narcissistic mothers exhibit distinct behavioral patterns that deeply affect their young daughters. They frequently use manipulation, emotional blackmail, and guilt-tripping to control their daughters' actions and emotions. Narcissistic mothers may oscillate between idealizing and devaluing their daughters, creating a confusing emotional landscape for the young women. They may undermine their daughters' accomplishments, undermine their self-confidence, or dismiss their feelings and opinions. These mothers tend to be dismissive of their daughters' boundaries, intruding on personal space and disregarding their need for autonomy. Narcissistic mothers are often incapable of providing genuine emotional support, leading their daughters to feel emotionally neglected and invalidated. The young women may grow up feeling invisible, unworthy, or constantly seeking their mother's elusive approval, which can lead to long-lasting self-esteem issues and difficulties in forming healthy relationships. The negative impact of narcissistic mothers can extend into adulthood, with daughters struggling to establish their own identities, trust their judgment, and engage in authentic self-care. Recognizing these destructive patterns is crucial for daughters to embark on a healing journey, learning to set healthy boundaries, and cultivate self-compassion, allowing them to break free from the emotional chains of their narcissistic upbringing. If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me DeVora. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hey guys, welcome back. I'd like to thank HelloFresh for supporting my show. go to hellofresh.com slash all insane 50 and use code all insane 50 for 50% off plus free shipping. Hellofresh is absolutely amazing because it is full of flavor and variety and can literally fit anyone's lifestyle. Hi, I'm Sarah and I grew up with a mother who exhibited narcissistic behaviors.

I guess I'll just kind of start where I started. My parents met in college. college and my mom, I believe, had, like, jumped around a few different schools. And then, so I don't know what year she was, but she'd been to a few different schools. And then she went to this school and met my dad. And she got pregnant with me. And my dad is just like an all-around good guy. Just he had like, I feel like he had the typical, like, 80s childhood. And, like, he was in Boy Scouts and stuff.

So he decided, like, well, got this girl pregnant. We have to get married. How old did you say they were? They were in college. So I think either junior or senior year of college. So she was like early 20s. And so yeah, my mom got pregnant and then they decided, okay, I guess we have to get married. We have a kid.

So she had me and then I was in their wedding. I was a few years old. And then they started, you know, they got a house and we were a little family. And a few years later, she had my sister. And I mean, my childhood was pretty normal. As far as I can tell, I mean, you know, when you're a kid, you just think this is my life. This must be like everybody's life. And, you know, they fought, but I'm like, every parent's fight, you know, everybody fights.

When they would fight, it was always about money, though. I did note that early on. Like, okay, if they fight, it's about money. It was either like my mom spent more than they had or, you know, just impulsive with money. I remember one time she went out and bought a minivan and I'm pretty sure she didn't tell my dad. She was going to do that. It was just kind of like, hey, I bought a minivan. There's a minivan here now.

And, you know, we were kids. We were like, awesome. This is cool. We always got toys whenever we wanted. I mean, we were spoiled. We got whatever we wanted. I remember kind of being bribed with toys or gifts or whatever. like, okay, we're going to go to the grocery store. If you guys are good, I'll get you one thing.

So if you guys are good and you behave, we'll go down the toy aisle and you can pick something out. And then Christmases and birthday was always big. I'm actually born on Christmas. Oh, amazing. It was like double everything, which was awesome. But even my sister's birthday, like, you know, we always got a lot. We never were without anything. We never, you know, we always had clothes. we always had school supplies, food, like whatever. We actually, we had too much. We had an abundance. But when you're a kid, you're like, this is awesome.

Right. Bring it all. Yeah, like, okay. So I didn't really notice that it was causing any problems or anything. I just knew, okay, whatever, I get whatever I want. And I mean, we never really even got punished, you know. I mean, we were good kids. We didn't really do anything bad per se.

But it was just like, hey, do good in school. And that's the only rule. So, I mean, that was cool. with that. You know, I remember, I remember going to my friend's houses and their parents were very different than mine. It just seemed like, oh, like, you guys have a lot of rules, you have chores, you have to do all this stuff. And my house was kind of just like more of a free fall. Like, you could just do whatever you wanted. My parents kind of just, my dad went to work and made the money. And when I was really young, my mom stayed home. And, you know, we can just do whatever we wanted.

But I do remember some of my earliest memories, like my mom was really struggling with depression a lot. And there were times when she would go and just lay on the couch. And she would just be laying on the couch all day. Or she would say, oh, I have a migraine and go lay in her room. And it was just me and my sister just left on our own. And I mean, you know, we were fine, like she was there. but I do remember times when I'd like ask my mom, hey, can you play Barbies with me? And she'd just say no.

Like, no, mommy's busy. Mommy's tired, you know. I don't really ever remember her like playing with us one on one. Maybe when we were really, really little, but I don't remember that far back. Yeah. But I do remember times like asking her, hey, can you play Barbies with us, you know? And she'd say, no, mommy's too tired. Mommy's too busy.

So I would just play with my sister or just about myself. And, you know, as a kid, if you ask so many times and you get told the same answer every time, you just stop asking. So, I mean, she would play, like, board games with us, like me and my whole family, you know, maybe we play Monopoly or something. So it's not like we were neglected, but I just do remember certain times of like, hey, I want to play with my mom and my sister. And that was never going to happen. Right. She just wasn't interested. She would buy us a bunch of toys, but she wouldn't actually have, like, one-on-one time with us.

and and I just I always felt I kind of felt alone yeah I was going to say it's that's it's important because that's how you form a bond and a connection so it's like if that's not there it is going to feel like you're alone and like you have more of a distant relationship with her yeah yeah I never really felt close to her right and she'd said like she'd always say like you know as I got older she's like what happened to you you were my best friend you know you were my little girl and it's like okay well I was four and you know like I was a little baby you know and as I grew up I grew more distant from you because you weren't there like you weren't putting in the work like you know what do you expect from me I grew up like sorry and the older you get too the more you're

going to realize like you said if someone's not present you're going to stop asking and you're going to respond to that yeah exactly even more distant yeah I always felt like like she had this image in her mind of the mom she wanted to be. Like she wanted us to be like Gilmore girls, but you don't get to be the Gilmore girls unless you are a parent first. Like she she wanted to be our friend and she wanted to be our peer, but she didn't want to be our parents. Right. And so growing up, it always was like my dad was like the heavy or if something bad happened, you know, it was like, oh, you failed a test. Were you close with him? Not really. Um, I mean, he was. He was, was there. It's not like he left or anything, but like I said, he just went to work and then

he was at work all day. He made the money and then he came home. And we would do stuff with him. Like at one point, my mom, when she started working, she worked at the hospital and she worked nights. And then like on weekends, she would catch up on sleep and my dad would take us out and we would go to like museums or, you know, the park or whatever. So we would do stuff with him, but I just like emotionally, we weren't close. Yeah. So. I didn't really have an emotional connection with either of my parents. And early on, I kind of started realizing that even if I do try and talk to my mom, it's not really safe to do that because she would use things against me.

Like if I would tell her like a secret or like, you know, you're a little kid and you're like, oh, I like that boy or something. I couldn't tell her that kind of stuff because she would make fun of me or use it against me or turn it into her own sort of drama or like tell like if I if I had a crush on a boy and I told her that she would probably tell that kid's mom really yeah and then be like oh let's set up up on a little day you know like I remember I had a friend in the neighborhood who was a boy and we were just friends I was in kindergarten he lived in the neighborhood we would hang out sometimes and she would make up stuff she'd be like oh oh you guys both put your hand in the popcorn at the same

time oh your boyfriend girlfriend you know and I'm like this is embarrassing I'm like we're just friends and like what like you're just making something up so stuff like that early on I realized like yeah okay this lady isn't safe I can't trust her like you couldn't tell her things in confidence and have her just like no keep it to herself no she could not keep anything to herself because to her any information was just for her to use to appear a certain way or um she was usually begs at gossip and just any gossip so celebrity gossip she always read those magazines like star um all those all those magazines all the time like she immersed herself in celebrity gossip and drama um and now i think it was just kind of an escapism to escape her own life of like i'm going to read about

jennifer aniston and you know like all those magazines and stuff um she's always been obsessed with celebrity culture, like as far as I can remember. And I don't know, I mean, she always told me that, so I know her parents divorced when she was like five or so. And she said after the divorce, things got tougher. She went, she, her dad raised her and her brothers. So her mom wasn't around. And I do believe that her mom wasn't alcoholic, but she did seek treatment and got sober. but I think from my mom's perspective she always thought like my mom doesn't care about me

because she's not here and she would always tell us like I grew up poor and I'm going to give my kids more than I could ever have which she did in a certain way like stuff wise we never went without yeah like if I wanted something I got it

and so she always yeah she always wanted to give us more than she had what she did but again like I'm not emotionally connected to her at all. Yeah she was emotionally present. Yeah I don't I to this day like I would never tell her something like that I didn't want other people to know like if you tell her something she's going to tell other people whether it's just my dad or um you know her you know the other parents or even just use it in a way that isn't um like you said like a safe way yeah use it against you um yeah I just couldn't trust her. And like I'd always known there was something off about her.

But I didn't have the vocabulary to pinpoint what it was. I just knew like something's not right here, you know. And she would have crazy mood swings. And I do think she was like actually diagnosed like OCD and bipolar. And I can definitely see how that, you know, manifests itself. like bipolar more so because I would see her like in manic periods and like oh my god I just went out and bought a minivan and then the depression of like oh I have I have a headache I'm gonna lay down and she was constantly that was constant my child like yeah of just you know oh we're gonna go to chucky cheese

and then we're gonna do this and we're gonna do this and this and then two days later it's well you know I'm tired I just want to lay down and she would just lock herself in her room and And then me and my sister would just be left to our devices. So there was a lot of that, a lot of highs and lows. She was constantly in therapy. And this was back like the early 2000s when therapy wasn't as prevalent as it is today. And she would explain it to us by saying, oh, I have to go to the talking doctor. Mommy has to go to the talking doctor.

So I was constantly in waiting rooms and stuff and being dragged along and, you know, just hours of just waiting, basically. for her to do therapy. And, you know, I never really thought much of it because it was just always a constant. But looking back, like, yeah, she was going to therapy, but it wasn't doing anything. Yeah. She wasn't actually actively doing the therapy.

She would just go to say she did it, I guess. So I always kind of had her number in a way of, like, I see that you're not, this isn't right. Like this isn't how a real parent should be. Even just contrasting her to my dad, like my dad was more of a like a parent should be of like setting boundaries of like, hey, you know, his big thing was always school. Like you have to do good in school. We actually had, I went to a school with a dress code for several years and I hated it. I hated having a dress code.

I hated. And it was like it was a dress code that was so strict. was basically a uniform, even though it wasn't a uniform. Right. Right. So they had all these rules. And at the beginning of the year, my dad would take us clothes shopping. And, you know, we'd have this list of rules.

You know, it has to be this, has to be this. Like, solid color has to have a collar. You know, pants had to be like khaki, blue, black, stuff like that. And we would go to the mall and we would pick stuff out that we liked that also technically fit into the dress code. And he, you know, would look it over and be like, yeah. okay if they call you to the office for that I'll back you up because technically it fits you know um so you know like my dad was there for us in a lot of ways like stuff like that's most of like that

like that like and yeah he would take us to museums and stuff um and you know my mom would be the one to take us like so we had school clothes and then we had like after school clothes uh which was so stupid um but like yeah she would take us you know wherever um Like I do remember like the first time I had to get like a training bra. That was so embarrassing because my mom took me and like just doing anything with her. It was just so embarrassing. And I felt like she was just shouting or like, oh, this girl's getting a bra for the first time. Like to the whole store.

And I'm like, just don't like, I don't want to do this. Like I don't want to do this at all. And yeah, just like nothing was secret. Nothing was sacred with her. It was all like a big show. She always wanted, you know, she was just focused on how other people saw her and saw us. And it was, you know, it started with like phone calls, I would notice a lot. She was two different people.

Like she could be mad as hell yelling at us and the phone rings. And then she's like, hello? And, you know, I would call her out and like, oh, fake voice. Oh, you got to have your fake voice when you're on the phone. Like, why do you do that? And I mean, I know now that everyone. kind of does that to an extent. But she did it like, it felt like an extreme. It felt like she had fake voice and just, just in general, if she was out of the house, she was somebody else. Like,

she was overly and, you know, nice. And I'm like, where's this lady when we're at home? Yeah. You know? Because when we're at home, yeah, she was either just like mad or pissed off or just ignored us or just didn't care, just uninterested. Just like, okay. okay, whatever, you know, go play, go in your room, whatever. I'm going to go over here and, you know, read Star Magazine or I'm just going to go lay down. And, yeah, it was just like she was two different people. And I just noticed that, or very early on.

And I, I mean, I always feel like I'm very smart and I pick up on things a lot. And I definitely picked up that she was different in some sort of way, very early on. and I would like call her out on it more or less and like I would always get told like by you know my sister or my friends like why are you being mean to your mom and I'm like I'm not being mean to her I'm like you don't understand like I'm just pointing things out really I'm like hey I'm just calling it like I see it you know I'm not being mean to her like you guys aren't seeing the other side of this

You know, like my friends in school would always, if they hung out with us, you'd be like, your mom's so fun, your mom's so cool, you know, which that was like music to her ear. She wanted us to be the cool, fun mom. Right. Like that's what she wanted. Like the friend. Yes. She wanted us to be our equal, not the mom.

And, you know, okay, yeah, she took us out for ice cream and, you know, whatever. But I'm like, that doesn't make her a great mom. Like, you guys aren't here the rest of the time. Like, yeah, she's fun when you're here. and when you're here, it's great because she's putting on a show for you. So when I would have friends over, it was like, oh, this is awesome. But it's like, once they leave, she's just back to how she was. So it was just like Jekyll and Hyde almost of her personality.

And then mix that with like the bipolar. And it was like, there are all these different versions of her. You never knew what you were going to get. So when I was at home, I just tried to say, stay away from her, really. And as I got older, that became more prevalent, like middle school, high school. Actually, in high school, like, I think junior and senior year, I really started trying to avoid her, like, just any way possible. Like, even small stuff, like, we're all going somewhere. Okay, well, I'm sitting in the back of the car. I'm not going to sit next to her.

Do you feel like you grew, like some sort of, like, hatred towards her as you got older? I mean, I don't know if I would say hatred as much as just like protection. Like I was trying to protect myself. I was trying to just do my time and get out of the house. I was just like, okay, I can't trust this woman, but I need her. She's my mom and, you know, I'm a kid. So I have to, you know, do my time, get to college. You just didn't have any interest to be around her.

Yeah. I didn't want to be around her. I didn't want to do things with her. Because even if we would try and do things together, it just felt so fake. It was just so forced. And I'm like, there's nothing here. Like, it's like she wanted this super close bond, but she didn't do any of the work to earn that. Yeah.

So, you know, even if we would go out and do stuff, it's like, okay, well, if my sister was there, that could be okay. And I, you know. but if it was just solo me and my mom it was just awkward it was just weird and awkward and I never felt a connection to her and yeah I felt like I just was trying to just get through my time and I mean I had a lot of other stuff going on like so my mom never really she never really cooked she had a few dishes she could make but she just wasn't really interested um and we would get food out a lot um like too much uh so when when she could got pregnant with me and my sister, she gained a ton of weight. And she was like morbidly obese,

like 300 pounds. And so I was hyper aware of that. And again, this was back in the early 2000s where that wasn't as common. I mean, you know, it's America. So there's always going to be fat people. But being so young back then, knowing that, like I was hyper fixated on that. And I would look around and I'm like, no one's as big as my mom is. Like, she's the only person that can't get through the turn style at the amusement park. I mean, specifically one time I remember we went to amusement park and there was this ride called the Wildcat. And I loved cats. I was like obsessed with cats. We had a dog, but I always wanted a cat. And I wanted to go on this ride so bad. My sister was too young and she was not interested. So we were like, okay, well, you know, we'll split up and you can go

on this ride. And I waited all day. Like it felt like all day in this line, right? In the hot sun and the heat. We finally get to the front of the line and my mom doesn't fit. Just the simple, the lab bars not going down and I was too little to go by myself. So just that shame of, you know, you have to get off and walk off. Like, I mean, I know that was horrible for her, but it was also horrible for me too. So I was just hyper aware of that. So I think just all of her issues and then add on you're morbidly obese, it just made a lot of stuff harder to do. And food became a drug, basically.

I think she has an addictive personality, and I think she was using food to cope with things and fill a void maybe. Because she was big for a long time. And she eventually did get gastric bypass surgery and did lose the way. And then she became obsessed with extra. exercise, like to an unhealthy level. And she was like inorexic. Like it was just weird.

It was just like just swinging of a pendulum. There's no middle ground with her. It was like, okay, you're going to be way over here and then you're going to be way over here. So that was always a problem. And then, you know, she's eating poorly and she doesn't really know how to cook. And, you know, not that she was like extra lazy or anything, but she just didn't want to put in a lot of efforts in parenting, I think. I always, as the kid, I always felt like I was a burden.

And then knowing that she got, had me in college, like, I always felt like, okay, I wasn't just an accident, but I was a mistake. And I think I kind of internalized that of like, everybody here would be so much better off if I was never porn. Like, they shouldn't have had me this young. Like, you know, like, this would have just been easier if they never had me. and I just kind of always had that in the back of my mind growing up. So,

Hey, I'm Jeremy Schwartz from American Criminal. On this season, robbery gone wrong or cold-blooded murder. Either way, Boston will never be the same. Listen to American Criminal, the murder of Carol Stewart, wherever you get your podcasts. Or to get early ad free access, subscribe in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or at Americancriminal.com. along with the food thing, I started gaining weight because I wasn't, you know, being fed

a home-cooked meal. There was no like nutrition. There was no like you have to, you know. One time when I was really little, I remember being forced to drink a glass of milk. But that was the only time that I was ever like, you're going to eat what's on your play and you're going to finish it. Like that was it. That one time when they were like, all right, you've got to drink this glass of milk.

But there was never. They never cared of like, you have to eat vegetables, you have to be healthy. Like, they didn't care. So I started getting weight and then just hating myself because of that because I was getting fat. I was like becoming the fat kid. And, you know, you're a kid. You're not the one buying the food. You can't really help yourself.

Like, I mean, I would, I found some old diaries and stuff. And it was like, I'm going to go on a diet starting tomorrow. This is what you were writing? Yes. Yes. Yes. This was me as a little kid when I'm like nine years old. But you can't really do that.

Even if I was serious about it, like I'm the kid. I'm not buying the food. I'm not, you know what I mean? And yeah, I just, I hated my body. I hated myself. And I look at my mom and she's huge. So I'm like, well, she's not going to help me, you know? I remember asking her, I must have been like 10 or 11.

And she was like, what do you want for your birthday Christmas? And I was like, I want a lip-bacuction. Because I had seen that on TV, and I'm like, that's what I want. And she was just like, you don't need that. You know, like, what are you talking about? But then just, you know, never talked about it again. I feel like if I had a kid and they said that to me, I would kind of do some more investigation. It's a concern.

It's a huge concern. Yeah. And it was just like kind of wiped off the table. Like, oh, no, you're crazy. You're fine. Like no realization that it's a problem that. a young child is looking at her body so negatively and, you know. Yeah.

And it's like, yeah. And she was huge. So obviously this is impacting more than just her. And yeah, that was always a big thing. It was like the weight. And my sister never really gained weight the same way I did either. So I was like looking at her and I'm like, you're normal. Like what's wrong with me?

But again, I couldn't talk to my mom about that. I couldn't go to her and be like, hey, like, this is going on. I'm getting bullied or, you know, like, it just wasn't safe. I couldn't talk to her about it. So I just went even more inward and just more like, okay, well, I guess I'm on my own. So my whole childhood was just like growing up and just being just on my own. I just felt like this huge void of like, does everybody feel like this? because I don't know.

Yeah. Like I felt like maybe everybody feels like this or maybe I'm just weird. There's something wrong with me. I had no clue that it was like because of how I'd been raised and what I was going through. I just thought there's something wrong with me. And then, you know, fast forward. I'm getting older. I'm like 13, 14.

And I start wanting to be more like alternative. Like I really loved Avril Levine. I was like, I want to be Avrilavine, right? And my mom was not supportive. I mean, she wasn't, she wasn't. Like, if there was stuff I want, like, if I wanted a plaid skirt, she'd get that for me. I remember she bought me, like, I had this shirt with a tie, and the tie set of rock on it. And, you know, like, I saw that in the limited two catalog, and I was like, I want this.

And then she bought it for me. But I also really wanted a pair of black combat boots. And I was like, I want black combat boots so bad. And she was like, oh, no. She's like, you're not wearing those. Like, no, no daughter of mine's going to wear that. And as I started, you know, experimenting with style and stuff, she was just more judgmental. I mean, the amount of times that, you know, I'd come downstairs and she's like, that's what you're wearing.

You're wearing that? Like, really? What would you say? I was just like, yeah, I am. Because, I mean, I built up. You would never go change. No. Because of what she would say.

No. Because I didn't care what she said. Like I have always kind of been strong. Right. And, you know, kind of just to spite her, like a lot of times it was like, yeah, that's one I'm wearing, because I know you hate it, you know. And yeah, I was at odds with her a lot of times, but I didn't care. And I was like, you know what?

Whatever. And, you know, she would probably say, like, I was sassy and I talked back and, you know, like she thought I was just the worst. Like, Sarah doesn't listen to me. and, you know, what do I ever do to deserve this? And, you know, like, I feel like in her mind, I was just the worst kid ever. Yeah. But I wasn't.

I just didn't. I just, I wasn't. I was reacting to what you had grown up with. Yeah. You know, so. Yeah. I wasn't going to do what she wanted me to do just because she said. I'm like, no, that's not a good reason.

I'm going to do what I want to do. I'm on my own pretty much in my own. head at least. I'm like, I'm on my own. So I don't value your opinion. I'm not going to, you know, I don't care what you have to say. And yeah, I've always been very strong and independent and really just in spite of her, I think. Partially in spite of her, partially because I felt like I had to be to survive. I'm like, all right, I'm on my own. I got to survive here. I got to do what I got to do. I felt really alone, but I mean, I had friends and stuff, but I felt like I never got instruction on how to relate to people.

Well, I was going to say, too, you know, even if you had friends, it would be hard to talk to them if they felt like she was the cool mom. Exactly. And you did not experience that. It's like, how do you explain that to people if she's not showing it to them? Exactly. So I can see why you would just kind of keep that bottle of. Yeah, I was just like, well, I can't.

Yeah, exactly. Like I couldn't tell that even if I could I mean eventually in high school I met a girl that had like a similar mom that I did and she really understood. So that was nice to be able to be like, hey yeah, both of our moms are like this and we can relate.

But that wasn't until much later. You know, that's, you know, that was more of just, hey, we survived. And yeah, so as I got older, I just was just kind of on my own, doing my own thing. And I would just, yeah, I was just try and avoid her as much as possible. When I was in high school, I think, yeah, senior year, I would come home from school,

hang out with my sister, you know, we watch TV, start some homework, whatever. And then I would take a nap right as my mom and dad got home from work. And then I would wake up about when they were going to bed just so I wouldn't have to be near them, just so I wouldn't have to deal with it. I was just like, I just didn't want to be there. I just wanted to just fast forward my life. So, you know, when I talk about like avoiding her, it really was like just anything I could do to just not be around this woman, you know, I would do. I mean, I got along with my sister and I'm glad that I had her.

But I also couldn't really talk to her either because if I told her something, she would tell my mom. How was her relationship with your mom? She was, she's always been more sensitive than I am and more emotional. And I think she really thought that my mom was like a real mom that she could go to. I mean, I don't know to what degree they were talking about things or what my sister was and wasn't sharing with her. But I do know that, you know, way more than me, she did feel like she could go to my mom with certain things. things. Do you think that the relationship was different between her and your mom and you and your mom? Oh yeah. You know, and your mom's end? Do you think she saw the relationships differently?

Yeah. I think that I was kind of a scapegoat in a lot of situations. Me and my sister were similar in a lot of ways, but we're also very, very different. I'm more of like the artistic side and my sister's more like math and science based um like she was you know did really really well in school i did good i did i did well in school you know but uh she did like phenomenally like you know she was like in the top 25 you know she was we're both perfectionists in different ways but she just excelled at school she was very very book smart um and yeah i always felt that well she's my mom's favorite so which i was fine with I was like whatever I don't care I'm like I just don't care at this point um I'll just do me I'll be fine um but I always did feel that yeah my sister is my mom's favorite and she's you know

number one um even simple stuff like if I was like hey we should get Chinese food tonight you know I would tell my sister hey ask mom if we can get Chinese because if I ask her she'll say no but if you ask her she'll say yes and like nine out of ten times that would that would work. You know, if my sister asked for something, like, yeah, we could probably do it. Probably say yes. If I asked, it was like, I don't know. So, yeah, I couldn't really, I couldn't be as close with my sister as, you know,

maybe like my friends and their sisters were because it's not that I couldn't trust my sister, but it's that I couldn't trust my mom. and I know that if I told my sister something, that it eventually, my mom would get it out of her. Yeah. Because my sister was always kind of a tattletail, and that's just kind of her personality, but then also I know that my mom could manipulate her

into getting information. So I had to keep a distance from my sister as well. So growing up it was like we were all alone in the same house. Right. It was like four people all very alone, but we're a family or, you know. Still living together.

Yeah, we're all together, but we're all very separate. And now a word from our sponsor. HelloFresh brings chef-crafted seasonal recipe flavors right to your front door. All the ingredients you need, all of the directions can be made quick, easy fresh, right in the convenience of your own home. Hello Fresh is America's number one meal kit

for good reason. They offer quality protein, fresh produce, and literally so much variety and flavors. I can't even explain it. Every week, they have 40 recipes to choose from so that you'll never get bored. And I am someone that gets bored so easily. Go to hellofresh.com slash all insane 50 and use code all insane 50 for 50% off plus free shipping. I personally am not someone that enjoys cooking that much. I think it's stressful. I hate going to the grocery store, but I do love to entertain and I do love to impress people with my cooking skills that I don't really have. So this is why I absolutely love HelloFresh because it gives me all the skill I need without really having or needing skill. They take care of all of the meal planning and like I said, all of the ingredients you

could ever need to make the most delicious meal ever for yourself or for your guests. Or for your guests, whoever you have over the house. I am not even going to lie. I am somebody that definitely tends to order delivery here and there. But something that I love about Hello Fresh is they offer fast and fresh recipes, which can be made in 15 minutes or less. And honestly, if you ask me, that is so fast and is pretty much half the time it would take for something to get delivered. And the best part is that it's fresh. You made it. You know the ingredients. You know that it's healthy. And what more can you ask for? I don't know about you, but I love a good home-cooked meal. And if I made it, that's even better.

When it comes to cooking my Hello Fresh, I am always so confident in it. I know no matter what it is, it's going to taste good. There has been so many meals that I was kind of skeptical about. I was like, eh, I wouldn't typically order this or I wouldn't typically like it. I swear to you, I end up liking it every time. And to any time I ever cook it for anybody else that I have over, they always, always love it too. Go to Hellofresh.com slash All Insane50 and use code All Insane 50 for 50% off plus free shipping.

Now back to the episode. So I just couldn't wait to leave. I just couldn't wait to get out. I ended up going to college and immediately I felt better. So you were living on campus at college? Yes. Yes. I was living in the dorms and I, you know, I went, you know, several hours away too.

So I was far enough away where you could get there in a day, you know, if you needed to, you could get there if it was an emergency, but it was not so close that you could just pop in. Got it. So that was important to me to be, you know, have some distance. And she didn't mind you leaving at all? No, she was fine. If anything, the school I went to was kind of like a prestigious school. And she was like, oh, that's right.

My daughter's going here, you know. And I think, you know, like she acted sad, but, you know, we weren't that close. So I think she was just like, okay. when my sister went to college i think that really hit her hard that hit her way harder than me um and you know it was like okay this is my last kid at home you know when i went to college she still had my sister at home so it was like she's fine but when my sister went to college that was like oh no what's happening my kids are growing up this is bad so actually um i think maybe that was part of why she's she did what she did.

So when my sister went to college, she went for a year. Everything was great. And the school that she went to, I remember when I was a kid, I remember my mom telling like one of my friends' moms or something, if my daughter got into this school, I would do anything to make sure she can go there, right? So fast forward and my sister gets into this school. And she goes there for first year, it's great. she loves it. It's her second year. They move her into the dorms. She's there for like a week

and she doesn't have access to like the website to like submit your work or you know, I guess they have like, you know, like a specific website for like homework or, you know, turning in files or whatever. She doesn't have full access to that because her tuition wasn't paid in full. So she's, you know, calling my mom like hey you're going to pay them or like what's the deal because I can't you know do college um she's like I'm talking to my professors and they can't do anything there's something they can do to help me like the tuition needs to be paid for me to have access to everything that I need to be able to do my work um so she's there for like a couple weeks and then it comes out that my mom spent all the money and her tuition was gone.

So she knowingly moved her into the dorm, knowing that they didn't have the money to pay for it, made her go to college for like a couple weeks only to have to be moved back out a few weeks later. And her college was also a few hours away. So it wasn't convenient, you know. And I was furious. about that. I'm like, how could you do that to her? So why do you think that she did that?

I think she did that because I think she was trying to sabotage her. I think she didn't want her to be away. I think in some way she wanted my sister at home. So she sabotaged her. And my mom's always been very selfish. And I don't know, I don't know if she's aware of her. I don't know if she's aware of that or if it's just subconscious, I don't really know why she does the things that she does. Because, you know, that's not the first time she financially ruined, you know, our family or spent money. Oh, actually, the first, I see this should go before. It's okay. My first memory of like financial trauma or shock was when a man came to our house to take away the minivan because she hadn't paid.

She hadn't been paying. They were going to repossess the van. And I remember my mom crying on the kitchen floor. And I was really young. And I remember it's like one of my earliest memories going over to her and hugging her and me, mommy, don't be sad. Like, you know, she's scaring me. and then I start crying because this guy's here to take away the van and I'm like you know when you're a kid your car is like part of the family you know and I'm like no what don't take away the van like stop crying like

you know freaking out and you know I guess my dad just paid it my dad took care of it he cleaned up the mess like he always would so that was like the first big you know financial like oh my mom really messed up here I don't know if, I mean, I don't know the details. I don't know if she spent money on something else or if she was just ignoring the bills. I don't know. But yeah, hiding, hiding bills, hiding the mail that was always common growing up. Like if we got home from school before my parents got home, she would tell us, like, hey, check the mail. Check the mail and then put it here.

Put it in this location so your dad doesn't see it. you know final notice bill do just anything she's like get the mail quick she was constantly hiding mail yeah hiding mail you know hiding stuff um like just just financial abuse just the whole way um like i i believe that she actually had to declare bankruptcy at one point and then i learned later that my dad also had to declare bankruptcy from her actions. And then later, when I was in high school, I started getting stuff in the mail that said I owed a bunch of money to a credit card company. I don't have a credit card. Like I remember my mom had said she had showed me this credit card and it had a cat on it. And she's like, look, Sarah,

I got you a credit card. It's got a cat on it. And I'm like, okay, I didn't ask for that. I don't need a credit card. Like I'm 16. Like what? I don't, you know what I mean? I was like, I don't need a credit card. Were you using it? No.

I used it like once. But she gave you a card. Okay. Well, she gave it to me. Either she had two cards and she gave me. I don't really remember. But like I had seen the physical card and I used it like maybe once. But I didn't even know how a credit card worked.

Right. You should never explain that to me. She never explained anything about money. But it was just like, look, I got you this credit card. Look, it's got a cat on it. How exciting. And then she proceeded to rack up a bunch of debt on that card in my name. And then later, we were getting all these bills.

And I'm like, why does it say I owe, you know, thousands of dollars? I'm like, stop using my name. And so this was when like I really called her out. I'm like, lady, I'm like, stop using my name for stuff. Like, what are you doing? Like you can't do this to me, you know? And I couldn't even report it as like fraud. because all my information was correct because she had all my information.

We lived in the same address. Like it wasn't like some random guy in Iowa tried to steal my identity. It was my mom, you know. So I'm like, stop doing it. Like stop doing this. So I think at that point she moved on to my sister because years later, my sister got all these bills of you owe a bunch of money. and when we were looking at, you know, the company that it says, she's like, looking around,

she's like, yeah, I think I bought this couch in the living room. Like the couch was bought under my name with a card that I didn't even know about. So she's financially abused all of us. And she's always had a shopping addiction. And, you know, people ask me, like, where, like, what did she buy? And honestly, I can't even tell you. Right. I don't even know.

Like, just a bunch of little stuff that added up. Like, because I really don't know. I mean, unless, yeah, it was like when she refurnished the living room or, you know. But really, it was like, I don't know. There's a lot of crap in the house. We had a yard sale once and it was just so much crap. And I'm just like, where does this stuff even come from? You know, a lot of little stuff.

She always liked, you know, fancy makeup, expensive makeup, nice clothes and stuff. And I think once she had lost the weight too, she started going crazy with clothes because she could finally fit into things. And your dad was still with her through this. Oh, yeah. My dad never left. Okay.

My dad would constantly pick up the pieces, pay people off, you know. They would have a big fight. She would start crying. She would say, I'm sorry, I'll never do it again. And then the cycle would continue. Yeah. My dad never left. and I think in his mind he was thinking

I have to stay here for these girls like I have to keep the family together I said vows you know like he took all that stuff very seriously he wasn't just gonna leave and you know years later I did tell him I'm like hey dad like thank you for staying because right if he would have left then right

then you really don't have it would have a way worse like on one hand And all of my friends' parents have gotten divorced, except for like two or three. Either when I was really young or in high school or after high school. At this point, most of my friend's parents are divorced. And I remember when, you know, several of them were in the middle of a divorce. I was kind of looking around like, are you guys going to get divorced or like, when's our turn, you know? And I remember thinking, like, you guys fight all the time about money and you don't.

don't really seem like happy like I mean I'm not seeing into other people's lives but this doesn't seem right you know I'm like our household doesn't seem like healthy like again I couldn't pinpoint it I couldn't nail it down of like this is what this is or but I just knew like this isn't right and I'm like yeah I'm looking around like my friends parents are getting divorced and they seemed way more normal than we do yeah like why aren't you guys at this point so I'm I'm like, why aren't you guys getting a divorce? Like, you know? And I remember, like, thinking about that and thinking, well, if they did get divorced,

I would have to stay with my dad because he would provide stability. And this was when I was like 10. Like, I was pretty young thinking about this. And I'm like, if I picked mom, yeah, we'd have a lot of fun. We would do stuff. We would get stuff. We would have a lot of fun. But it wouldn't be stable.

And we'd probably get kicked out in an apartment or, you know, lose our car. So I knew I was kind of like, well, if they do get divorced, I'll just stay with dad. It'll be boring. We won't get as many toys, but it'll be secure and I'll have stability. Yes, because my dad was a parent. He was a parent. My mom was not a parent. A lot of times it was like my dad had three daughters because he had me and my sister and my mom.

And especially when she was financially just blowing it up, you know, he would come in. and clean up the mess. And they'd have a big fight. She'd cry. But he would always just fix everything. And it would just start over. And I'm assuming, you know, she would kind of, you know, lie low for a little bit,

but then it would just start up again. Yeah. And, yeah, after so many times, she's learning that she can get away with it, you know? So she spent all the money for my sister's college. And then my sister had, to come home and take a year off. And then she actually ended up having to transfer schools.

Someone that was in state. So they could afford the tuition. Even though that other school she went to was her dream school. And my mom had said, I would do anything for my daughter to go there. Okay, well, that's what you said, but that's not what she did. You did the exact opposite. You did anything to make sure she couldn't go there. And my sister really kind of took that in stride.

And she was very disappointed, but she was just like, well, what are you going to do? She's like, oh, you know, it's okay. And when she transferred, she, I mean, she graduated and she really enjoyed both schools she went to. And she was like, you worked out. And I'm like, no, that's not the point. I'm like, that's not the point here. Like, I feel like I was more upset about it than she was. And in a lot of ways, I was like, you're the daughter that she's supposed to like.

Like, if she had done that to me, I would have understood more. But she did it to you. I'm like, what? I'm like, that didn't make any sense to me. Because literally, I'm like, if you did this to me, I would get it 100%. You don't like me. I call you out on your crap. Like, I would understand that.

I'm like, but you did it to the daughter you're supposed to really love and care about. You did it to your number one. Like, why? Why would you do that, you know? And I was living at home at this point. And one night she didn't come home from work. And I remember kind of, you know, starting to worry. Like it was like 10 at night.

And I'm like, where is my mom? Like, this seems weird. So I'm like texting her. You know, I try calling her. I'm like, where are you? Like I'm kind of worried. And then later that night she calls me and she's like, I'm, I checked myself into a psychiatric.

a hospital. So I just felt so guilty about what I did. I was going to drive my car off a bridge or something. So she felt guilty. She spent all the money for her college and then she checked herself into this place. And, you know, I ended up having to, like, drive her clothes and stuff. Like, it was weird. It was really weird. I mean, I was like, you know, I remember talking around the phone, like, almost about to cry because I'm like, okay, I'm really freaked out about this. I hope you're okay. How long was she there for? She was there like a week maybe.

It wasn't super long, but it was long enough where, yeah, I had to bring her some change of clothes and stuff because she just showed up. She just showed up. And when she was there, it came out that she'd been lying to her therapists, this whole time. So these years that she'd been in therapy, she was lying. She wasn't telling them the whole truth. She was just going to therapy, but... Like in what way? Was she lying? Like she wasn't telling the truth. Like she wasn't, you know, she was going to therapy, but she wasn't actually doing therapy. She was withholding information. Got it. Or, you know, not telling her therapist.

Like about how she was feeling in the things that she was doing? I guess. I mean, I don't know the details, but I just know she told me like, yeah, I was lying to my therapist. So she wasn't getting the help she needed. The whole point of therapy is to be honest. And to open up. And to open up and be honest with yourself about what's really going on. And she wasn't doing that. It's like she was going to therapy just to say she was doing it.

Right. But she couldn't be honest with herself. Well, probably too, based on what you said, maybe she was just telling the therapist what she would want people to think of her in here. Yeah. Not actually what was happening. Yeah. Like she was building up a character.

But I'm like, what's the point of that? I'm like, why would you cope to a therapist and lie? Like, what are you getting out of that? What are you getting out of that? Like, what's the point of that? I really don't know. Because obviously you know. The thing is, too, is if she really, you know,

if she was bipolar and had things going on mentally, it's not ever going to be something that's going to make sense to you. You know what I mean, of why she would do those things. Yeah, that's true. You know, so it's like. In her mind, it probably made sense. But to other people, it's not going to make sense because if your brain doesn't operate the way that somebody else, you know what I mean?

Like there's people that will lie and genuinely believe their own lies because they're just not well. You know, and it's like, we'll never understand. And we're like, why would you lie about something so small and so stupid? But to them it made sense. It wasn't even a lie. You know what I mean? So that's what I notice a lot too.

It's like it's difficult because I think we try so hard to understand. understand why, but sometimes we never really get the answer we're looking for because we'll never know why. They don't even know why. And if they don't know why, we're never going to know. I think that's a good point. Yeah. And that, yeah, that's what.

But obviously it's your mom. So it's going to drive you crazy. Yeah. And it's going to upset you and piss you off because it is something that you hold closer. Because even though you guys didn't have a relationship, what hurts your sister, or even what would hurt your mom would still hurt you. so obviously you're going to always want those answers you know what I mean yeah yeah I'm watching all of this happen I've been you know it's like okay you went to the talking doctor when I was little

kid you've been doing this my whole life obviously you know like you take medication you admit that you have these problems why aren't you actively trying to fix them but I think what she said is true like maybe she is but she's not capable. I don't know. Right. I really don't know. And also a lot of times, like, if something's genuinely wrong, you can't fix yourself.

You know what I mean? You can't even know where to start to fix yourself. Right. And I think you kind of said earlier, too, like, who even knows if she was realizing what she was doing? And maybe after the point she might, at time, she probably did feel guilty and feel like, well, you know, she couldn't go through college because of me. But at the same time, it's like if something's wrong mentally in your brain,

in your head and in your brain, you might not be able to stop those things in the moment, you know? Yeah. Sorry. No, you're okay. Yeah. And I think that's been my whole life of like, I just don't understand her.

Her decisions, the thing she does, doesn't make sense to me. And yeah, I don't know if that's, it's because that's how her brain works or, you know, we're just so different that I'll never understand. Or if she really, is she even aware of what she's doing? But yeah, the college thing was like, that was really bad.

That was like this huge thing that blew it everything up. And I just, yeah, I'm like, if you did this to me, I would get it. But you did it to my sister who really loves you and cares about you. And she even like forgave her essentially. But I think that was the first time when my sister was really like, oh, maybe mom isn't. who I thought she was. Maybe Sarah's right about some of this, you know. And, you know, my sister will say like, oh, it all worked out.

I'm fine. You know, I have a job now. It's fine. I graduated. I'm fine. But again, it's like, that's not the point. Okay. So she did that.

And then my sister went back to school. And, you know, I moved out. My sister went to school and she was on track. to, you know, get a job, move out, all that. And my mom, I guess she kind of just started spiraling on her own of just, like, okay, empty nest. Like, I've been a mom for, you know, 30 years almost. And, you know, I'm with this guy.

And, you know, like, my parents never had, like, a loving relationship, I wouldn't say. Like, they got together. of me. I don't really think they were meant to be together by any means. I think they just made the responsible decision to stay together because of me and then they have my sister. So once we were gone, I think to my mom, it was like, oh, well, what now? So she ended up, like, going back to school, like, at a community college. She was like, I'm going to finish my degree. And she got really into that. And I don't think she ever finished it.

Like she only had like a semester left or something. It was not a lot. And she never, like she still didn't finish. So I'm like, why are you, you know, why are you doing these things? And then it got to a point where I really thought that they were content. I really thought my mom was content in her life and everything was fine, you know. So it was kind of like the calm before the storm sort of a thing where I really thought, you know, I'd moved out. My sister was away at college and about to, you know, graduate and get a job and stuff.

And I really thought, oh, good. My parents are fine, you know. My mom seems content. Like they'll just get old and, you know, we'll visit holidays and whatever. My mom decided she wanted to buy a puppy and they bought a puppy. And then, and then it happened. Then I, one night I got a phone call from my dad and I was asleep. It was like midnight.

I was asleep. I got woken up my phone. I look at it. It says dad. And I think, why is my dad calling me? Like, what? I kind of, you know, was like, I just want to go back to bed. And then I get the little notification that I got a voicemail.

And then I was thinking, great. Now I'm like, what if it's something bad? I'm like, why's my dad calling me at midnight? I'm like, maybe somebody got hurt or something. So I'm like, okay, I'll listen to the voicemail and I'll go from there, right? So I listen to this voicemail and it's basically he's like, Sarah, I'm telling you this because I told your sister, I'm kicking your mom out of the house. I'm just sick of her crap and I'm just kicking her out.

And that's it. I just want to tell you. So I'm like, what? I'm like, that's a weird voicemail to get from my dad. So I'm like, okay, whatever. They just had a fight and she's staying at a hotel, whatever. I'll deal with us tomorrow, right? So I, you know, wake up the next day.

I think about calling my mom and I'm like, yeah, I'll just text her because I got to go to work. I'm like, I'll just text her and make sure she's fine, you know. So I send her a text and then, you know, I get to work, start, you know, doing stuff. And she doesn't respond, you know. I send her another text like, hey, are you okay? just want to make sure everything's fine. Dad called me last night, you know. No response.

I'm kind of starting to worry a little bit. Like, what's going on? Because, you know, I really have no clue. I just get this weird voicemail from my dad. And I have no idea what that means or what's going on. And then I get a text from my dad and it says, have you heard from your mother in the past like, you know, 37 hours or something like.

like that and I'm like no and then um you know I'm like in the middle of work and I'm like you know sorry I need to you know call my dad real quick so I get him on the phone and he's like yeah I haven't I'm like what happened I'm like what's going on like because I have no clue I have no context and he's like well we were supposed to meet at a wedding last night um it was after work she was supposed to meet me there and she never showed up and then she never came home he thought she was just blowing him off just to be a bitch or just to be like oh that's right whatever um so that's why what prompted the voicemail he left me um but then she just never came home the next morning you know he hasn't heard from her she's not responding so then he's like i'm starting to worry

and think that something happened like maybe she was in a car crash or something i don't know um so then i'm really freaked out you know and i'm like i can only imagine how my sister's feeling and because at this point she had moved like out of state she's totally alone um and you know i'm like great like what the hell so i try calling her again no response i try texting her nothing my dad decides he's going to call the police and file a report and then i get a call call for my sister and she's like, yeah, I just talked to the cops and I gave them your number and they're going to call you. So I just wanted to let you know that if you get a weird phone number calling you to answer and that's who it is. So I'm like, great. I'm like, what the hell is going

on? Yeah. You know? So the police call me and they're like, oh, you know, is, you know, asking me all this questions like, is this, you know, does this sound like something your mom would do? and they're like, no, this is totally uncreacteristic. I have no idea what's going on. I'm like, I don't even live there. I just got a voicemail for my dad that she didn't show up to something, and now we don't know where she is. And they're like, we understand she wants some money in a settlement.

Do you think that anyone would be after her for the money? And I'm like, no. Like, I don't know. Like, she doesn't really have many friends or anything. Like, I really have no clue. but it just freak me out. And, you know, so I hang up with them, and they're like, okay, you know, we're going to do our investigation, whatever.

And I'm just sitting there freaking out at this point. And I'm, like, telling my coworkers, like, hey, this is the situation. And they're all just like, geez, like, that's really heavy. Like, I'm sorry. Like, I hope they find her, you know? I don't know what's going on. And then finally, a few hours go by, mom on my phone. phone. So I'm like, okay. So she'd pick up the phone. Oh, well, no, before she called me, actually,

I had texted my boyfriend, tell him what's going on. And he suggested, he was like, oh, have your dad check his bank account, because maybe she spent money on his card, and that can give you clues to where she is. So I was like, oh, that's really smart. So my dad checks, and there's a charge for an airline, and then there's a charge for an Uber in San Francisco. and we're like, why would she be in San Francisco? Like, we don't know anybody there. Like, we went there once for, like, a family vacation, like, years ago. But we don't know anybody there.

Like, why the hell would she be there? Obviously, you know, those are the clues we have. We can assume she's in San Francisco. I don't know why. So then she calls me, and I pick up, and I'm like, what the hell, dude? I'm like, yeah. And at this point, I know where she is. but I just want to see if she'll tell me, you know.

And she's all, Sarah, oh, well, I just, I'm like, spit it out. I'm like, tell me what's going on, you know. She's like, well, I'm with a guy that I met online. And he lives in San Francisco and I'm with him. I'm like, okay, why didn't you tell anybody that? Like, why did you run away? And her and your dad were still together at this point. Yes, they're still married.

Yeah. I don't even care about the affair part at this point. I'm like, whatever. That's the least of my worries. Because the cops are involved now. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, we all think you died, okay? Like what you have no regard for anybody else. So I'm like, just spit it out. She's all like stuttering. Well, well, I'm like, dude, I'm like, this is ridiculous. And she said, well, I just couldn't, I couldn't show up to that wedding and pretend I was in a happy marriage. I just couldn't do it. I'm like, so you make up something else. So you make up a different lie than lady. You don't just not show up and let us think you died.

I'm like, my sister is freaking out, crying, I'm sure, having a breakdown. And dad called the cops. And then she's like, oh, oh, oh, God. And I, like, could hear it in her voice that, like, that hit her that, like, she didn't think that was going to happen somehow. And I'm like, hey, yeah, dad called the police. Because maybe she doesn't care, but like you guys are normal people who do care if somebody doesn't. But like she didn't think, yeah, she didn't think that anyone would call the police if she went missing.

Like she was literally expected to show up somewhere and she didn't. So yeah, that's what happens. And then that's when I kind of clicked in my mind, oh, she called me first. She didn't call my dad, you know, she's got her phone blown up with all messages from her whole family. And she called me first. And that kind of said something to me that like she knew. maybe I was the easiest one to break this news to because she knows that I'm just up front and kind of detached.

Right. So I'm like, yeah, dad called the cops. Like, you have to deal with this now. Like, I'm like, I don't care if whatever, you're having a fair, whatever. That's literally the least of my worries. But we thought you died, okay? Like, you created this big mess. You have to clean it up.

Like, what are you doing? Like, you make up a different lie, you know? And then I'm like, why didn't you respond to us? Like, what's going on? She's, well, my phone died. I'm like, so you get a damn charger. I'm like, you go into any store and you buy a phone charger. You don't just go missing.

Like, if I had done any of the things that she did, she'd be furious. But here you are a 50-year-old woman running around like you're 16, just thinking there are no consequences for any of your actions. Like, what are you doing, lady? Like, this is insane. So I'm like, call dad, please, and call your daughter daughter because they're both freaking out. Please tell, call dad so he can get the cops to, you know, end their search. Like, this is ridiculous.

Like, now you're like, you know, I'm like, this is so crazy. I'm like, oh, my phone died and oh, I just, I just had to be with this guy. I'm like, okay, whatever. So I hang up with her and then, you know, she calls my dad, she calls my sister, she talks to the police. That's all settled. And then I just get a text from my dad that says, your mother's in San Francisco, she's met someone, we're getting a divorce. Which I kind of already knew, but, you know, he was just letting me know that. And I'm just like, I can't believe that.

I just just so shocked. I'm like, what? They had happened so fast. Yeah. And I never would have imagined someone to be with my mom. Yeah. Like I'm like, who's dating my mom? Like, I mean, I just know too much.

And I'm like, she's a crazy person. But I'm like, who? I'm like, that's the real story. Who's this guy, you know? What's wrong with him? Yeah. I'm like, what the hell, man? Yeah.

So she did that and that basically blew up the family. That was just like, that was it. That was the big explosion of like, okay, you did that. There's no going back from that. And that was like the deal breaker for my dad, you know. He sent her an email that he also sent to me and my sister just so that we'd know what was going on. And, you know, it said at the top of it, it was like, hey, I know you guys don't want to be involved in this, but I just want you to know what's happening. So I'm sending this to you too.

And it was really heartbreaking. And, you know, I could just tell, like, it literally broke his heart. and he just didn't see this coming out of nowhere. And like, he's not an emotional guy. He doesn't really let us see how he's feeling. But, I mean, it almost made me cry reading this email. Because I'm like, Jesus, like, this really, he's like, I thought we would grow old together,

and I thought everything was fine. And, you know, he's like all these years of financial abuse, this hurts a thousand times worse than that ever has. Like of all the stuff you've ever done to me, nothing has ever hurt me like this. And then he said, I know I kind of fought you on getting the dog, but please leave me the dog

so I can have a little bit of love left in my life. And that was just so sad. I'm just like, oh my God. So, you know, and then he just went through like very, very straightforward of like, hey, this is what we should do. This is how much the house is worth. and, you know, so we're going to split things up, you know, yada yada.

So it was like, okay, they're going to get a divorce. Finally, I think they should have gotten a divorce earlier and, you know, in a much more clean way. But I don't think, I think my dad didn't want to bother. He was just content with his life. And I think my mom was too afraid to let go of. Well, that was her, like, security blanket. Exactly.

Like she had it good with him. And I don't know that she realized how good she had it with him. So, you know, she ended up, you know, just cheat. Which a lot of people do that. Like they're too cowardly to just break up. They'll just cheat and then let it break it up. So she did that. And then it was like, okay, they're finally going to get a divorce.

All right, here we go. So then she's still living at the house. house. She actually took over my room like a long time ago. My parents hadn't slept in the same bed in like decades. So she was like in my room and turned that room into her room. And she like texted me, oh, can you come over and help me pack? So I'm going to get my apartment. I'm like, okay. And I'm like, well, yeah, I got to do laundry anyway. Like, okay, fine. And I go over there and she's just manic. She's just in this ultimate manic state and she's just being crazy and she's like, oh my God, Sarah, like, how many boyfriends am I supposed to have? Because I have like four and I have

to pick which one I want. And I just look at her and I'm like, you're not supposed to have any boyfriends because you're my mom. Okay. Like that's it. And then she's just like, whatever. And it's just clearly like she's acting like a little kid. It's weird. It's really weird. She's just being crazy. And I just remember thinking, like, what happened to you? Because, I mean, I've seen you do crazy stuff before. I've seen you in a lot of different states.

But this is something new. This was, like, new level of, like, what's going on. Yeah. And so then I'm helping her fake pack. And, you know, she's like, oh, put that stuff in these boxes and do this. and this and it was all a bunch of like arts and craft supplies and stuff it was like not actual packing it was just boxing up stuff that was in the room and then she's like oh just just put those down the hall for now i'm like okay so i pack up a bunch of boxes like four boxes and then like

she just wanted me to be over there so she could just show off her single life or something i don't know i don't really know because obviously like actually packing that's not why i was there yeah she wanted me over there to like show off and it was just weird so I got out of there fast I'm like dude I don't okay here I helped you back whatever and she didn't even have an apartment lined up she didn't even have an apartment she had no plan she had no order to move this stuff too um and it was just weird um so time goes by and she does eventually move out um but she doesn't move all her stuff out. Like my dad ended up having to pack her stuff for her because she just wasn't. She was just dragging her feet. Like, okay, you want to move out? Like, we'll move you out, you know.

I believe my dad was paying for the apartment too. He gets her this apartment and it's like downtown or something and, you know, it's like, okay, you can go live your little single life. Like, do what you want? And like, yeah, he had to pack a bunch of her stuff. And, you know, I'm like, oh, what's up with that? I'm like, is mom moved out yet? And he's like, no, she won't. get all her crabs so I have to do it for her because I just want her out. It's like I just want her out of here like I just want to move on so I'm having to pack. Um and then eventually like he had to tell her like hey if you want the rest of your stuff you have until this day to get it or I'm getting rid of it. That's it. And you know she's just making excuses. Oh well whatever. Oh I you know okay I'll get it.

I'll get it. I'll get my stuff. And you know he gave her like a month or something. And she never came and got her stuff. So my dad threw it away. I mean, she just had piles of crap. Just so much stuff. Right. She never came and got. And we're like, we gave you plenty of time.

You know, he gave her plenty of time. She never came and got it. So, okay, obviously you didn't really care. And so when she ran away, that was like September. So we had one last Christmas where we were all together. and that was the last time I actually saw her was that Christmas and it was one of those things where it was up until now even no this this was just this was two Christmases ago okay so not this past Christmas but the one before that was the last one where we were all together and you know

normally Christmas was like my favorite thing it was like this big deal and it was like all day and I knew that wasn't going to happen you know I'm like okay Christmas is over that's fine, whatever. I had a good run. So my sister, my dad, were like, well, it's your birthday, so like, what do you want to do here? And I'm like, I guess, like, just go out to dinner or something? I was like, how about we just go to like cheesecake factory, you know, on Christmas Eve, right? Because they're open. And so I get, you know, I'm like, yeah, we can invite mom.

I don't know if she wants to be there or what, but, you know, we can invite her. and she said well because it's Sarah's birthday i guess i'll come so we go over there i go over there christmas morning afternoon and we do presents and stuff and you know it's all seemingly normal and then we open presents and then my mom kind of disappears and she's like on her phone the whole day, like really obviously on her phone. And like doing that thing where you kind of show your phone where you like want people to see like, oh, I'm texting. That's right.

As if we care, you know? I'm like, this is just really gross. And she's on her phone all day. We open presents. And like when I, like I got her something that was like it was like a magnet for her purse where it's like if you go out, you can use the magnet to put your purse on the table instead of having it on the ground right and she's just like what is this like oh thanks and then my sister had gotten her some like autographed celebrity thing and she was like oh my god i can't believe

it oh my god best person ever and it was just really obvious like okay you don't care what it got you that's great um that's awesome and then she's freaking out over the thing my sister got her which was like some autographed photo or whatever um just painfully obvious i'm like okay all right I wish I just would have got you nothing then okay um and then she kind of disappears like you know goes upstairs we don't know where she is and then she comes back downstairs to like go on her peloton and it's which is just in the other room and I'm like what are you doing like what is this like why are you even here like you're not with our family you're just in your own world right now and then eventually we're like hey like we're leaving for dinner are you you

going to come with us? She's like, yeah, I'm coming. I'm like, okay, well, you're literally sweaty on a Peloton right now, so sorry, I didn't think you were actually going to get ready and come. So she gets all ready, and then we go to the restaurant, and while we're waiting for the table, she's kind of like flirting with my boyfriend, and it was really weird. He's really tall, and she was like, look at him, like, how tall are you? You know? And I'm like, I can see what's going on. And I'm like, this is gross. I'm like, this is nasty. And the whole time she's like showing off her phone. And I'm like, this is weird. It's just weird. It's like she was there, but she wasn't there. It's like, that's not my mom. She's just turned into some different person. Which like, that's fine.

If you want to go do that, like, I don't care. You know, I'm not going to stop you. It's not like you were ever a real mom to me anyway. But like, this is weird. Okay. Like, either be. here or don't this halfway and it crosses lines and boundaries that shouldn't be crossed as a mother but yeah um yeah so it's just like this is weird and then at one point like you know having dinner and she's like Sarah I want to get another tattoo I want to get words and I'm like okay I'm like what do you want and then like I think my dad or my sister like made a joke like oh our last name with a big ex over it um and she's like that's not very funny I'm like uh is it's not very funny I'm like uh is Isn't it though?

Like, are you kidding me? Like, you know? And I'm just like, yeah, no, I'm not like, we're not doing that. Okay. And that's the last time I ever saw her. Did you guys stay in touch it all, like, over text or call or no? We texted a few times. I'm assuming you never met any of the boyfriends.

No. So she wanted me to. So that guy in San Francisco, whenever I was helping her fake pack, She was like, I was like, so you moving in with that guy? Like, what's going on? She's like, no, I broke up with him. I loved him. I did.

But I broke up with him because long distance was just too hard. I'm like, oh, really? I'm like, really? Okay. But then she was, yeah, then she's like, oh, I'll just get, you know, I have a bunch of boyfriends. I got to pick one. I'm like, okay, whatever.

So I don't really know how many guys she's dated or whatever. I have no clue. I know she got another new boyfriend. and so I had texted her for Mother's Day because I was like, you know, it's the least I can do. I'll just text her like, hey, happy Mother's Day, whatever. And then she was like, oh, thanks, Sarah, you know, whatever. And then she, like, invited me to go get dinner with her. She was like, oh, you can see my new apartment and we can get dinner.

And I said, okay, like, I guess, yeah. So we set a time or a day, whatever. and then she tries to like force the boyfriend on me. And it's like, oh, and my boyfriend's going to come and you can meet it. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, I'm like, no. I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I'm like, I don't feel comfortable meeting someone that you've only known for a couple months. My mistake, sorry, I thought you actually wanted to see your daughter.

And, you know, I wasn't sure what she was going to say to that because I was just very honest. And I'm like, yeah, no. Like I'm putting a boundary up here. I'm not doing that. I didn't say I would never meet him, but I am not ready to meet him now. I agreed to have dinner with you. That's it. So then she reluctantly was like, okay, fine, yeah.

No, I do want to see you because I haven't seen you since Christmas and blah, blah, blah. But I could tell that it was just, you know, she was just saying that just to manipulate me. and then, you know, it's like the day before or whatever, and she cancels. And then we reschedule, and then she cancels again. And this goes on like three or four times to where eventually I'm like, okay, I'm kind of starting to believe that this whole dinner thing's never going to happen. And then she's like, well, you know, it's just been really hard. I got a lot going on.

And, you know, I didn't have money one time. And then I was sick. And then I'm like, okay, like, you don't need to make a bunch of excuses. like if you can't afford to do it or whatever, like just tell me that. Like, that's fine. You don't need to keep pretending that we're going to meet up and have dinner when we weren't going to. Like, okay, that's fine. Yeah.

And I think she never wanted to do that because she couldn't, I didn't want to meet a boyfriend. She wanted me to approve of her new lifestyle. She wanted to show off her new boyfriend to me and get me to approve of it. She did not care to actually just see me and catch up with me. She didn't care about that. Yeah. She wanted to show off her new life, her new fancy apartment, and her new boyfriend. And when I didn't want to do that, then there was no use.

There was no point. So that happened. And then I'm, you know, talking to my dad some. And it turns out she never filed the deployment. course papers. She said she did, but she didn't. She just had him sign them and then never did anything with them. And I think that was to just keep my dad as a backup plan. Yeah. Like if we don't actually get divorced, well, then I still have him. And I can just go running back to him because he's taking me back all these other times. So my dad hired a lawyer and actually got that all taken care of and got the

divorce to go through and they are divorced. So they got officially divorced and in the divorce, they had agreed that my dad would, I believe he would pay for her apartment and then he would pay for her phone plan because we were all still on like the family plan. And so he was still, he's still paying for our plans and then hers. My mom was the account holder because when we had set this up, you know, back in the day, it was her email address, she was in charge of it. She was like in charge of all the bills, all that stuff. So it was in her name.

So and my phone for some reason is like one of the main phones. So I'll get the texts that say like, your bill is due, you know, hey, please pay this amount. And I kept getting these messages, and I just forward him into my dad, you know. And I, you know, I forward him one of the things, these messages, it's like, hey, you owe $600. And he's like, I just paid this.

Like, what the hell? And I'm like, hey, I don't know. I just get the messages possible. So it turns out my mom had been adding her boyfriend and his kids to our family phone plan and just making my dad pay for them. And then I found out she used, I had an eligible upgrade. Me and my sister could both upgrade our phones. And she stole our upgrades.

to get her boyfriend and his kids brand new iPhones, all while my dad's paying for this. And he's like, whoa, like, what the hell? Yeah, it's like she just doesn't have any care or concern about anything or anyone else. Yeah. She's going to live her life and do whatever she wants. Like, it makes me wonder, like, if that's coming from, like, a selfishness or if it's coming from, like, another place.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know where it comes from. Right. I don't know why. Like is it something that's just on top of being bipolar and depressed?

You know what I mean? It makes you wonder. Yeah. I don't know if this is just she really thinks that this is okay. Right. And she can get away with it. Or if she's doing it because she knows it's not okay. And she's doing it to be mean or to, you know, I don't know.

Because she did it multiple times. Like he would take them off of the phone plan and she would read them. Right. She would keep doing this. It's like, are you aware of what you're doing? Obviously she's aware. And obviously she knows that, you know, but I don't know if like my dad were moving them is that her adding them back.

Is that her thinking, oh, this is annoying. I have to keep adding them back. Or is it like, man, I shouldn't be doing this, but I'm going to do it. Right. You know, I have no clue. I don't know. Have you ever like tried to talk to her about anything? Or has it always just been something that you've kind of just accepted, okay, this is the way

my mom is and I'm just going to keep being distant and pushing forward. I tried to talk to her one time. After I dropped out of college and I had lost a lot of weights. And I was, I had lived with roommates and stuff and then I had moved back home. And I was briefly living at home again. And instead of like congratulating me for losing all the words, weight or hey you look good she accused me of using cocaine to drop the weight and then she confronted me in my room and she's like you're using cocaine and I'm going to test you know the surfaces and I'm getting

you know you've you know as if there's no other way that I could have lost weight it had to have been me abusing drugs and I confronted her and I was like hey I was like look here lady I was like you made me fat and I lost the weight and how dare you like what the hell dude and it was just like one of those things where she's like well I tried my hardest okay I did the best that I could and you know if that wasn't good enough well I guess I'm just a bad mom I think nothing really got through no it's impossible you can't talk to her because even if you try she just sees it as an attack if I were to try to genuinely tell her these things she wouldn't listen she would just think you're attacking me.

Even, you know, I genuinely tried to come to her and say, hey, this is how I feel, laid it all out. Like, it's not going to get through to her. And, you know, I realized that a long time ago. Yeah. So I just don't try. So, yeah, that one time I did, you know, try and be like, hey, this is what you did to me and this is how I responded.

And, you know, like, you're not. going to just accuse me of using drugs because I lost weight that you made me put on when I was a kid like what the hell like I literally hated myself for years and years and then I lose the weight and then you're going to come at me and say you must have been abusing drugs like what so yeah there's there's no there's no point in trying to talk to her and you know because that was like only time that I really was like, you know what, I'm just going to tell her the truth and just lay this out here and see what happens. And it doesn't get through to her. There's no getting through to her. So I just don't. I'm better off, not in her life. And just looking at the times when, like,

when I live in the same house with her versus when I don't, way better when I don't live there. Yeah. Even my dad said something like that. Like you think, you know, either when I had moved out to go to college or when I was living with my friend, he did say something. He's like, yeah, you and your mother, your relationship's just, it's just better when you guys don't live under the same roof. Yeah. Well, it's also just sounded very toxic. You know, like even if, I don't know, I just feel like the lack of connection that you guys had and just the constant of like you said, not knowing what side of her you were going to get. It's toxic and it's mentally draining to be around a situation or even a person like that. Yeah, exactly. And that's, I think that's why I avoided being around her when I did. You know, I mean, I knew like, okay, I have to be in the same house as her.

It's more of an effort to be around her than it is. Yes. It's, yeah, you don't know which side of her you're going to get. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, you know, what do we got to deal with here? If she's in a bad mood, it's like, okay, then I have to be, I was just constantly on edge. Like, okay, how do I have to react to how she is right now? Right. You know, and it was just a lot.

Yeah, she's just a toxic person to me. and I just, I can't do it. And after I dropped out of college, I briefly worked at the same office that she worked at. And it was just insane to see how fake she was in person. And that's interesting to me, too, the fact that she was able to kind of put on that front for other people. Like, it's not like this was just who she was in every circumstance. Like, she genuinely was able to put on a mask almost. Yes, it was.

It was like. So she was aware of what she was doing if she was able to do that. Yeah. It was that fake voice on the phone, but it was in person. You know, I worked kind of in the back at this office doing like paperwork online and stuff. And she was a receptionist. And I could just just seeing her interact with the people and who came and then the people who worked there. I'm like, this is ridiculous.

Yeah, you could see right through it. I could see right through it. And I'm just like, none of these people really know the real her. And it was interesting when she would interact with me because she couldn't be mean to me. She couldn't be her real self because then everybody would see. She had to be this fake version of herself, you know. And it was just ridiculous.

I remember one time, actually, it was like we were on the lunch break and she had given me like an extra gift card that she got and was like, hey, I'm not going to use this. Like, I don't know even if she paid for it. She just got it. Whatever. She was like, here's this extra gift card, right? And I was like, okay, thanks. That's cool.

And I went to the mall with my friend and we went into the store that the gift card was for and she really wanted something. There was this thing she really wanted. And I was like, hey, I'll get it for you with this gift card. I'm like, I'm not going to use it. I don't really have a need for it right now. and you really want that so I'll get it for you, you know? My mom found out that I did that and she was furious.

She was so mad. And she like gave me the silent treatment at work over it. And I'm like, I'm sitting there laughing at her. I'm like, are you kidding me? I'm like, you gave me that gift card as a gift. Okay? Once you give me that gift, it is up to me what I choose to do with that. If I wanted to use that gift card to buy something and then give that

thing to my friend, I'm allowed to do that, okay? Just because you gave me this gift card does not mean you get to dictate how I use it. And again, it was like buying stuff and holding it over my head or, you know, like she always did that. She would always, well, I guess you don't love me because you're not behaving right now and I had bought you that thing last week. Or, well, I took you to that concert. I guess you don't care about me because you're not doing what I want right now. Don't you remember I did that thing for you before, just constantly doing that. And this was like an extension of that. Right. Where I'm like, you know, and I would call her out on that too. Like early on, I'm like, stop buying me stuff then. If you're going to just buy me something just to use it against me,

then don't buy it for me. Just don't. I'd rather you buy me nothing than buy me something I really want that's going to be used against me. Right. Like I'm so sick of this. Like, no, I'm done. And it was constantly, it was constant. Oh, well, I guess you don't love me because you don't appreciate that I did this and I did this and I did this. Or she would even, like she wants credit for taking care of me and my sister when we were babies. Like she said something like that to my sister before. Like, well, I guess you don't care that I took care of you when you were an infant. Like what you, that you did the bare minimum, that you had a child.

child and then had to take care of that child, you want extra credit for that or something? Like what? And, you know. I think it sounds like a sense of like control. It's all control. Yeah. All control. She has to be in control all the time. The way, I mean, all the time. That's why she didn't like me because I wasn't willing to just go along with what she wanted to do. I was going to be my own person and do what I wanted to do and I didn't care that she couldn't control me. Right. So, you know, and she knew she couldn't control me, so she just gave up on me. After she had moved out of the house, I, you know, I was at the house and I peaked into her room

because I just wanted to see what was still there. And I found the gift I had gotten her for Christmas, just thrown on the floor, unopened. And then there was also like this journal that was like laid out. And I, you know, kind of scrolled through it a little bit. And then I saw a page that said like, dear Sarah. So I was like, okay, I'm going to read this. Yeah. And she had written it when I had just first kind of moved in with my boyfriend.

And I had, my sister was home from college. And we had taken her out and we went and, you know, went to a bar or something. and she had written this letter to me that was like, well, it hurts me that you want to spend time with your sister, but you don't want to spend time with me. And, you know, blah, blah, blah. And this is, so I'm just going to give up on you. This is me giving up on our relationship.

And basically blamed me for our non-existent relationship. Yeah. That how dear you want to hang out with your sister, but you won't invite me to go to the bar with you and your boyfriend, okay, you're the mom for one. No, I don't want to go get drunk with you. Like, that's weird. And, like, if I want to hang out with my sister, that's a good thing. Okay, that's not bad. But just the fact that she literally wrote, I'm giving up on you. And this was like years ago, you know, and I'm like, wow, okay, like, that's all I need to know.

I'm not going to put any effort into trying to have a relationship with you when you clearly don't You're putting it all on me and it's my fault. If it doesn't work out and I'm sure if it does work out, that's because of you, right? So it's just exhausting. Oh, absolutely. Like, it's not worth it. I'm not getting anything out of this. I can't actually talk to you about anything real.

Like, what's the point? You know? And now that I'm an adult, it's like, I don't, you know, it's not like, oh, I want to get toys and I want to get you to buy me stuff. Yeah, there's no point anymore to maintain a relationship. Yeah, there's literally nothing there for either of us. And it's, it's better if we're not together. Yeah. Um, so I, you know, just stayed away. I didn't talk to her. Um, I tried to go get dinner with her. She kept canceling. Um, and then later she had texted me again and she started, she started the conversation with, did you know your dad has a girlfriend?

And I didn't. I was like, no, I didn't know that. I'm like, no, I didn't know that. Okay, that's news to me. And she was trying to get me to be mad at him. She was trying to manipulate me into being mad at my dad because he had a girlfriend. At least you only had one and not four that he had to choose between you. Yeah, and you're already divorced.

So, okay. And I guess my dad had. We had, our dog that had passed away, his ashes were in a box on the mantle above the fireplace, okay? And me and my sister had both agreed, like, yeah, we should just bury the ashes, okay? And we just never got around to it. I don't know. So my mom, I guess my dad ended up burying them, and my mom tried to use that against him and was, well, did you know he buried the ashes? I'm like, okay.

I'm like, I didn't know that, but I mean, that's what I had wanted in the first place, so I'm fine with that, you know? Like, yeah, maybe he could have told us, but what's the problem here, you know? And she's just trying, just texting me, just trying to manipulate me into being mad at him and being on her side and being pissed off that my dad has a girlfriend and he buried those dog's ashes and didn't tell us. And, you know, I'm not taking the bait. and I texted her and I said, you know, you're not the only one who's allowed to be happy. Right. You started this. You are the one who wanted to get a divorce.

You're the one who wanted to see other people. You did this to yourself. Okay? Like, yeah, dad's allowed to date someone else if he wants to. Like, I'm not on anybody's side here. You know, and she's like, well, you wouldn't meet my boyfriend. And I'm like, well, I haven't met his girlfriend either. Like, that has nothing to do with this.

And then she was like, well, and I knew that you didn't know about the girlfriend because he told me he hadn't told you yet. Like, okay, then why would you start the conversation accusing me of knowing something that you knew I didn't know? Right. Like, I can see the manipulation coming out. Like, I can see exactly what you're doing. Like, why are you doing this? So I'm like, you know what? No.

So after that, that's when I, like, hid notifications from her or, like, I turned it on my phones, like, they would appear silently. Because, honestly, just seeing her name pop up on my screen was, like, it was, like, triggering to me. I'm, like, just seeing mom on the screen, I'm just like, oh, God, what do you want, you know? So I just silented it. I'm like, you know what? I don't want to deal with this. So I'm just. like kind of avoiding her you know i'm not i didn't block her but i'm like i'd rather not talk to you

okay so later i go back to the house and um i go in the basement because i needed to get something and um i don't know if you know what american girl dolls are so i had two of those and my sister had three and um the one doll i had was like my favorite i had felicity she was the best i saved up my own money to buy her. And I remember when I got her in the mail because I was like tracking the shipping and there was a tornado and I was like, oh my God, it better get here before the tornado. So these were like really important dolls to me and they were in the basement. And I go in the basement and they're not there. There's one of my sister's dolls is down there, but all the other ones are gone. They're beds, everything. There's like a handful of outfits and stuff. They're gone.

And I knew, I knew it and I didn't want it to be true, but I knew my mom took him. I knew it. And I just, just to give her the benefit of the doubt, you know, I texted her, I'm like, hey, where are the American girls? And I even text my dad. I was like, hey, weird question, but do you know where the American girl dolls are? And, you know, he's like, no. And then I just knew it.

I knew my mom took him. So I tried calling her. She doesn't answer. And then I text her more like accusation. like, hey, why the hell would you take our dolls? Like, if you took them to sell, like, that's low even for you. Okay? Like, how dare you?

And then she comes back at me, like, how dare you accuse me of that? I would never. Like, okay, well, you did it. I know you did. Because nobody else took them. My sister's out of state and my dad's at work and he doesn't know where they are. and they were in the basement and then there was a bunch of stuff in my sister's closet upstairs and all that stuff was gone too so my so you're really expecting me to believe that someone

broke into the house went into the basement took the American girls went upstairs into one of the bedrooms took the other remaining furniture and accessories and then left without stealing anything else you really expect me to believe that um because like I essentially caught your red-handed and you're denying it. So that was it. That was the last draw for me. I'm like, I'm done. You steal from me? Something that I literally bought with my own money when I was a child. And after she had made a big deal that her parents never kept any of her toys from her childhood and she spent years rebuying them on eBay. You're going to do that to me? I'm like, uh-uh. I'm like, you're done. Like you are not allowed in my life anymore. I'm over this. You're done. So I wait for my dad to come home and I, you know,

I facetim my sister and I tell her, I'm like, hey, all our dolls are gone. Mom took them. I'm like, one of your dolls is still here. But that's it. And I'm like, and I'll grab that one and I'll take it to my house so that she can't get it. And I have expected my dad or my sister to be like, well, she's your mom, you know, don't cut her off. Like, you know, I have. I have. I, half expected them to say that's me, but they didn't. They bullet my dad just looked at me and said, I understand. Like, I'm sorry. I understand.

So I blocked her. I blocked her number. I blocked her everywhere online. I'm done. I'm like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. Like, how dare you? Because at first I thought she stole them to sell, because they do have value. Especially, like, I had just.

kept my stuff in pristine condition. Like I was an organized child and I kept the outfits packed tight with the tissue paper they came with. Like I could resell those for a lot of money and that's half the reason I had kept it. So I thought she stole them to sell, you know, her years of needing money. It makes sense. But then that's when I had learned that her boyfriend had kids and I thought, oh my God, did she give them to some random kid to win them. this kid over. Like just taking my years of memories and giving them some kid who's got to totally ruin all this stuff and mess it up and doesn't know the value.

I'm like, that's worse to me than if you just sold it to like someone who, you know, would pay good money for that stuff. I'll never get this stuff back. We had hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. And it was like years and years of birthdays, Christmases, you know, from family, from friends. like I just, I was done. I'm still mad about it. That was it.

That was the last draw. And people, you know, she even said to me, or she said to my sister one time, Sarah won't talk to me over some dolls. And that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. And I wanted her to say, like, so you're admitting you stole them, right? Like, you're admitting it because she still won't admit it. She denies it. But she knows.

She knows what she did. and like I can't forgive that and it might sound stupid like some dolls really but I'm like but it's everything that led up to that and you're going to steal from me like no that's it even my boyfriend was like yeah when she stole from you like that's next level like that's insane like what the hell um so I blocked her I'm done my sister still talks to her a little bit but i think it's just very surface level because her trust was broken with the college thing but then when she ran away that really impacted my sister um so she's just like okay surface level like hey you know i obviously can't really talk to you

about anything serious because you don't care how i feel um and you know And I think my mom has been like kind of lashing out at her now because she has no one else to go to. And she said some crazy stuff to her. Like, you know, that's when she was like, I want, you know, I took care of you and you were a baby. I did this and this. It's like, okay. And then, you know, she'll say stuff like, you guys will be so much happier when I'm not around. And, you know, saying stuff like suicidal stuff.

and I know my mom would never kill herself because she wouldn't be around to see the drama that happens afterwards because that's all she cares about is like the drama and seeing other people's reactions to her and like she'll threaten suicide, sure, but she'll never actually do it. I know it's not a real threat. So all this stuff happens

and I started researching narcissistic personality disorder and she checks every box. I don't think she's ever been diagnosed, but she checks every box. And that's the thing with narcissists is that they are the last person to ever think, hey, am I a narcissist? Do I have this?

Like, by definition, they won't do that. So I don't think she'll ever get the help she needs. Even if she was doing therapy genuinely and trying to be honest, I don't think she'll ever get help. And, you know, like, she never talked to her mom. Like, growing up, my grandma, we visited her, like, maybe once or twice. She used to live in Chicago, so we would visit there, and she would, like, give us a tour of the city.

And, you know, when she was the city tour guide, it was cool. But when she moved out of Chicago, we never saw her again. And my mom actually kind of, we referred to her as crazy grandma, because my mom, My mom was like, oh, she's crazy. She's crazy. We don't want her in our life. She's crazy. So we had, you know, crazy grandma that we didn't talk to, never saw.

But I still kind of talk to her sometimes. I have her number. I'll text her. I ended up telling her, hey, my parents are getting divorced, you know. And I told her the whole story. And then I've been talking to her. over the past couple years. And my grandma has given me a lot of insight into my mom that I never knew.

She told me that, you know, when she was in college, she, like, racked up a big phone bill on her roommate's phone that my grandma then had to pay. And then she was dating some guy and they broke up. And he went to West Point. my mom my mom was going to drive her roommate's car back to her house and um she ended up taking the car and driving to west point and then tried to get this guy like expelled or something like you know went to the disciplinary board because they broke up and she tried to like get back at this guy um

so you know it's like oh she's been doing crazy stuff her whole life And then my grandma told me, like, she was in French class in high school, and she lied about going to France and staying there over the summer. And then she got, like, specially recognized at graduation. And my grandma said that, like, she looked at my mom and was like, oh, how was France, huh? And, like, why would you lie about that? What's the point of that? and then she told me that my mom had committed check fraud against her own dad who had raised her and it was like a lot of money to where she could have been charged but he didn't want to

charge her at such a young age and give her a record which you probably should have done but he didn't want to do it so learning all of that I was really like oh so she's always been like this Well, I was going to say, too, I feel like to some degree maybe it could give you a sense of relief in the sense of like she didn't act this way because I was a mistake or because she had me too young. She's always been this person. I did feel relief. I felt like, oh. It was like confirming for you. This has nothing to do with me.

Right. This has nothing to do with me or my dad, my family at all. This is who she is. Yeah. And there's something wrong with her. And, you know, I mean, I. I can only take what my grandma says with a grain of salt too because I wasn't there. I don't know.

I don't know both sides. But I did feel relief. I did feel like, oh, okay, this has nothing to do with me at all. I could have been anybody and she still would have done all this stuff because she's severely messed up. And so, yeah, that was like kind of enlightening to realize like, oh, okay, this is who you are, has nothing to do with me. And then, you know, just learning about narcissists and, you know, NPD and all that stuff.

And it's like she checks every box. She wants control. She kept her family away from us because they knew the truth about her. We never saw my uncles and my grandma when I was a kid because my mom didn't want them around because they could have told us the truth. I guess at my parents' wedding, my mom's dad didn't want to walk her down the aisle because of what she'd done to him.

And my grandma had to tell him like, hey, man, like, this is your only daughter, this is your only chance to do this, and they had to talk him into doing it. He didn't want to walk her down the aisle. And, you know, I wish they had told my dad, I wish they had warned him. Yeah. Because she said, she did say, like, they just said, well, good luck.

She's your problem now. And they didn't warn him about anything. Right. When they should have said, like, hey, don't let her have a checkbook. Don't let her be in charge of money. Don't let her, you know, be in control of anything financial. Because they didn't warn him and she ruined our whole family. Like, I don't, I mean.

If I wanted to go by a house, like, it's going to be difficult because my credit is bad because she ruined it before I could ever have a chance to do anything. Yeah. Same with my sister. So, I mean, and like my dad can't co-sign on stuff because he had to declare bankruptcy once. So, like, she really ruined our whole family. Yeah, she's done financially. And she doesn't care. Mm-mm.

So that sucks. So you haven't talked to her since you blocked her? No. Okay. And I don't know that she knows I blocked her or if she thinks I'm just ignoring her because my sister told me she still does send text messages to our group chat of me and my sister and my mom. So she'll send messages there and she'll like address. And how long has it been?

It's been a year. Okay. It's been like a little over a year at this point. And honestly. And you still talk to your dad? I still talk to my dad. I mean, we're not close. Right.

But I'm not going to block him because at least he tried to be a parent. I think he kind of feels guilty for leaving us with her and, you know, just all that she's done to us. Right. But, I mean, he tried to stay because he had kids. He thought keeping the family together was the right thing to do. And in a lot of ways, it was, especially when I was younger. You know, I remember we went out for his birthday. And this was like after everything had happened, a first thing.

a couple months after she ran away. And I came over and, you know, he's like, oh, do you want to go get dinner for my brother? I was like, yeah, sure. And then she tried to invite herself along. She was like, where are you guys going? Can I go? We're like, no, you can't go?

And she said, well, where are you going? Bring me back a steak. We're like, you don't even know where we're going. And then we just wouldn't tell her just to fuck with her. We're like, no, we're not telling you. And I, you know, I told him then. I'm like, hey, thanks for staying. if you had left, like, if it was just me and my mom, bad things would have happened.

I could have ended up, like, in foster care, abused. I could have been, you know, molested by her boyfriends. Like, I don't know. Bad things would have happened, though. We would have got kicked out of apartments. Like, it wouldn't have been stable. It wouldn't have been good at all. Who knows where I would be?

And even when I told my grandma, all the stuff that had happened, like the first word out of her mouth was like, oh man, your mother's going to end up in the gutter. And to hear her say that about her own daughter, like, I don't know, that speaks volumes. So I really don't know why my mom is the way she is, but I know she's messed up. I know that she needs help, but I don't know that she's ever going to get it. She's been like this her whole life. And I do believe. that it's just her personality is deeply flawed. Well, I think, too, you should know that it says a lot about you, that you're able to acknowledge everything and still come out strong enough on your own,

you know, to like stand tall and almost be a parent. You were apparent in a sense to your sister as well, you know, and you took on multiple roles like for yourself and for your family. And I think that that says a lot about you. And because a lot of people, like you said, they could have broken down or just kind of like, became submissive to a parent that treats them that way and acts that way. Because at the end of the day, when they are our parents,

we're taught to respect our parents and follow their rules and follow what they say. So I think that it says a lot about you that you are able to recognize kind of these toxic patterns and not really be disrespectful, but like you said, maintain a certain amount of distance for your own mental health and for your own protection and safety for what you needed to do to get through it, which I think is important. And I think it's even, it's like I always say this to people that come on here. I think it says a lot that people are even willing to be vulnerable to speak about, you know, what they've been through.

And I know it's tough when it comes to family, especially because at the end of the day, even if they hurt us, they're still our family. So it can be hard and it can make you feel guilty. But I think it's always so important because there's more people than you know that probably have related and have gone through similar things or even felt similar ways of just like, why can't my mom be normal in a sense? Or like why did it have to go that way? But I always say that everything happens for a reason.

And I know that's a really cheesy, sometimes cheesy thing to say. But I think that it makes us things that we go through make us stronger and they teach us a lot. And now not only did it teach you things, but now you're able to help and teach other people by sharing your story and your experience. Yeah. And that is why I wanted to come on here. I was kind of worried. like, what if my mom sees this and sees it as an attack against her and she's going to come after me? But she might, but I can't just stay silent.

And that's your story and your reality. And you, like, you have every right to share that. And you didn't share it. No one comes on here and shares things in like an attacking way. They're sharing it to bring awareness to something that happened. And what happened was very real. You know, and it, it sucks in a lot of ways, you know, because it, and it did calls you to have, I'm sure, a lot of sadness and confusion and trauma.

So I think if that's something that you can come on and kind of like open up and release that and also shed that light on other people's lives, why not? Yeah. And if somebody sees that as an attack once, I mean, as you already know. She's going to see it. Right. Because that's how her mind is. Selfish.

And I mean, once I start, once I talk to my grandma and learned more about who she is and that this is just who she is, has nothing to do with me. I really did and did start doing these research, you know, about these personality disorders. And I really did kind of feel like empowered of like, oh, I wish I knew this sooner. Right. So that's why I did want to come on here because maybe there's somebody at home right now, like you could say them. Yeah, you could save them an extra five six years.

Why? If they're seeing this, maybe they can go, oh, it's not me. They're just messed up. Yeah, because that's important to know too, because that's going to have effects on you as well, on your self-image, on your self-worth, all of those things. Because nobody wants to feel like they are the reason why someone is treating you, though. You know what I mean? Yeah, for years, I thought I was the problem. And the way that someone treats you is a reflection of themselves and themselves only.

Like, it usually doesn't have anything to do with you. even if it is a parent. But no one deserves to be treated in that kind of way from a parent, from any, a random person, a friend, anything. Yeah. So when I cut her off, I was just like, you know what? I am worth more than this abuse. Like I am.

Yeah. And I'm done. And you take that time to heal. Like now is your time to have that, like you're older now. You're able to have that space and that distance. And I think that it's good for you. Yeah. And it's healthy.

And you never know what the future holds and if she'll get help one day. And if she does great, if she doesn't, fine. But at least now is your time to work on yourself and your mental health. And kind of healing and accepting, okay, this really wasn't me all those years. And like this is obviously my reality, but how can I turn my reality and my past into something positive? Yeah, I can move on. Exactly.

And I can just focus on me. Yeah. And honestly, like the year, the past year of not having her in my life, has just been relief of not having to see her name on my phone and think, oh, God, what now? I mean, I do hear some stuff from my sister of like, like one time, you know, the past six months or so, she claimed she was pregnant. Oh, I'm pregnant. And oh, blah, blah, blah.

Even the doctors don't know. And she told me that. And I immediately knew. I was like, that's a lie. So I said, no, that's a lie. That's not true. she's saying that so that she can then say

I lost the baby feel bad for me which is what happened you know but I knew I'm like she's running a script from 30 years ago and thinking that that's gonna work right you know and my sister did actually meet the boyfriend

I don't know if she's still with that guy I don't know but she did meet him and she said he seemed kind of normal and you know even my dad had said like I feel bad for that guy maybe I should warn him

but I said no I said no it's different now it's not that she's really young and you know no yeah this is a 50 year old woman who had a messy divorce has two children who don't really talk to her if this guy can't see what's in front of him that's not him at this point yeah it would be different yeah like when you and her met and you guys were early 20s you didn't know any better you should have been warned but you weren't but there's no it's different now Yeah. It's different now. If someone can't see that she's just running the same crazy stories, like, that's on them.

I mean, I figured it out and I was a kid. Yeah. So that's on them. Right. But yeah, I just, I did want to share this and like it was tough. But if one person can see this and think, oh, I kind of relate to that. And they will. You know, maybe my parent has a disorder.

maybe there's something wrong with their brain, maybe it's not me, then that can help, that can be helpful. Right, absolutely. And I always say it might not always be the same exact story or the same exact experience, but right, if it falls into a category of like some making someone feel like they aren't alone and they aren't the only one. Yeah. And if my mom can see this and no, like, hey, I'm not here to attack you.

I'm here to help you. Like if you are seeing this and you can get something out of it, like just if my mom watches this, I hope that she watches the whole thing and keeps an open heart and an open mind and actually listens to what I have to say. Because I'm not here to be mean. No, definitely not. And I think, too, it's hard to expect, you never know how someone's going to take something. and it's hard to expect, you can't expect anything. Yeah, but I can't let that stop me.

No, not at all. And I think that you did an incredible job in sharing your story. And like I said, I think that it takes a very strong person that's willing to open up and be vulnerable to share what they've been through no matter what that is. So you should really be proud of yourself and not only for doing it and coming on here, but for, like I said, helping others. And I don't even say potentially because I know you will. Because the reason I do this is because at least one person can always relate to

what, you know, the guests have to say. And that's the most important thing to me is to help, I feel like give a platform for, you know, you guys to come on and just feel like it's a safe place to talk and share your story, but also to help the silent viewers that listen and listen to either learn or listen to feel like they can relate to somebody. So that's, you know, I think that's the most important thing. And that's what I would take out of it. And like you said, yeah, if she sees it, you could only hope that she sees it in a positive

life but if she doesn't then she still she still has a lot of work to do with herself you know what i mean and hopefully one day you guys can form a relationship but if you don't then it was all a learning experience you know what i mean yeah i don't i mean at this point i don't really care either way yeah right i'm good without it if she wants to change and comes back and she's totally different i'm willing to give her a chance but it's going to take time yeah like it was a lot so i don't know and i did have a friend. I told him the story of, you know, she ran away and all that. And he really had nothing to say to me. But he was like, well, I've always known you to be like really strong. So, you know, wow. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, seriously, you did an amazing job.

And thank you so much for wanting to come on. I really appreciate it. And like I said, there's definitely going to be people that can relate and that you're going to help a lot. So amazing job.