We're All Insane - Raising 3 Kids on Food Stamps

Episode Date: September 25, 2022

Jen Seidel shares her experiences as a single mother of three struggling to make ends meet and her path to becoming a well-known bodypainter.  If you have a unique story you'd like to share on We're All Insane, send a message to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel. We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hello, Jennifer. Hello, DeVore. So here we have Jen, the fucking body painter.

Jen said up. The fucking part. Yeah. Well, it's better than Mama Jen, right? Because I know you don't like that. Oh, hell yeah. But no. So before you take it away and just take the stage, I wanted to say how the first, because

we talked about it, I think maybe in the mom's episode, how I first met you. Did we? Yeah. A little bit. Okay. But I think it's important to bring up because it's so funny because I feel like I've such a bad memory. But it's something that I just always, it always stuck with me and I never forgot it.

And I feel like, one, because I thought you were so like, brats. breathtakingly beautiful. And I felt the same way about you. Even though you were a little girl. I know. I was young. And I'm sure my teeth were crooked. No, I didn't notice your teeth. When I had phrases. No, I had one tooth that was like up in my guns. I didn't notice that. I think I noticed just your just everything as a whole beautiful little girl. Thank you. So first time we met was at a, it was like a small restaurant, right? In our little town. So I didn't even meet you as my best friend's mom. And I think I went with my mom to, was she there for your show? Or not show, but you're a thing, but was it?

Yeah, she was there. So she was going to see you, body paint. Was that what you were doing? Yeah, I was having a charity body paint event. Okay, yeah. So I went with her because I'd always go with her because she'd always hear bands play there too at this small restaurant. Oh, that's what she was there for.

She was there to see her brother. And you were upstairs, right? Or somewhere else? And I was upstairs having the event. Right. And then she saw there was an event going on. Yeah. So I went to the bathroom, right? And I came downstairs to go to the bathroom. And I saw you. It was just you and I in the bathroom, which was crazy. It felt like nobody was there. Yeah. And I was putting my lip gloss on. And you come out of the stall and you're like, you're pretty. I can't believe I said that. I feel like I'd be nervous. You know how young kids are like nervous? Yeah. You were just like, you're so pretty. And I was looked at you and I went, thank you. So are you. And then I said, Wait, where's your mom?

Why are you here by yourself? Because I was young. I had to have been... Yeah, usually I would go with my kids to the bathroom at that age. I had to have been... I don't know what, 10 or 12? I was going to say 10 or 11. Yeah, I was young.

And you're like, my mom's here. And we walk out and you point to her and it's Roxanne. And I'm like, that's your mom? Yeah. So our moms already knew each other from high school. And then, yes, that was a small world. But I met you as a kid, literally a kid, and met you as a body painter, like a really hot, beautiful body painter. That's crazy.

And then it wasn't until years later, obviously, that then it was like. And then you didn't even know. Like Claudia and you weren't even friends yet. Yeah. And I'm wondering. I mean, I once again, like I said, have the worst memory. But it makes me wonder if when Claudia and I became friends, if I remembered the two. Like, oh, I met her at.

I don't think so. I don't think you met me. I met me. I think you met me first, then you met her, and you hung out with her before coming to my house and before me dropping her at yours. It only started probably connecting when... But do you think I remember that you were who I saw? Probably not. I feel like I didn't. Probably not. Yeah.

Like I feel like I didn't put the two together. Yeah. Kids aren't like that like. I mean, they're intuitive. Yeah. They're very smart. But they don't. They're not like that like.

Yeah. Aware. Right. So I feel like on social media, that's pretty much what you're known for for the most part. Now maybe more cats. But for a while. Recently. Yeah.

It was your your talent and being a body painter. And I feel like no one in our state does. does what you do. Honestly, anywhere, I feel like no one does what you do that I've ever seen. In the state, they try to. Right, they try to, but no one can compare. Now after COVID, I really don't think there's too many of them that are doing it. No. I survived it. Right. So, somehow, some way. And it's just crazy because you are so talented. And I feel like not only in just body paint, but in art and in so many other things, like in drawing. And I just think it would be amazing for you to tell us how, you know, your journey through it, but,

also where you were before it, how you got into it, and then honestly, just where you are now, because you've changed so much. Oh my God. Even just how I've known you, like how I first met you and then being friends with Claudia, how I saw you then. And like it's just so. I feel like I've had so many different lives already. It's crazy.

And even through the process, it's like we became friends. Yeah. And it's just so many. Very good friends with that. Actually, this is my book. And hopefully my soon-to-be mother-in-law. This is for you. So, yeah.

Thank you. Brandon. Mom, best friend. Thank you. That's what I wrote in there, basically. Amazing friend and like a daughter to me. So you wrote this book, right? I wrote this book.

Okay. This is all about your... It's crazy because this book didn't... I kept dreaming of this book. You know, I'm a big manifester and I think, like, if you think hard enough and long enough, you're like magic, you can make things happen in your life. The book was one of the things that I, before and I have... had no money and no nothing. I was like, I'm going to have a book. I'm like, whatever. And the way

it came about was just like, it just kept coming back in my head. You know, a lot of people write things down. And they're like, you should write things down. I don't write things down. Yeah. I think them in my head over and over and over until they're like branded in my brain. Right. And then they come to real life and happen. So the book was just, if you look in the beginning of the book, hopefully you'll read it. I will. I will. I will. You know, every book you've gotten me, I remember when you got me, I have. I really have. And I read them right away.

You'll probably know all of this stuff for the most part because it's my backstory. So when I wrote this book, I was so passionate about, because I was in what was happening. It was such a struggle for me. Everything was such a struggle. And so I go back from the time that I was a baby. And I remember seeing my mom painting on walls. And that's where I kind of like got my artistic talent. Right.

And vision from is my mom painting. She's the painter. And my dad was like the businessman and the one. See, I never knew that about your mom. Yeah. Like I knew about the makeup. But I didn't know that she. An amazing artist.

Actually, she was better than any of my school teachers. And she was one of those people that, you know, she was hard on me with correcting my artwork. And she would correct it and I get mad. Yeah. You know, if you just separated their eyes a little bit more and did this, I was like, and I would get so angry. Because I'm like, why can't you just say it's great?

Right. Because it's not. What with, you know, Kennedy, I do both. But she, Kennedy's amazing. So I don't have to do that. But I remember how that made me feel. It's like, eh. So it just made me a better artist.

And then my dad would always be like, so growing up, I would always try. Oh. Here she is. I was only a matter of time. Oh, look, she loves my book. Only a matter of time. She used to do this all the time. It's okay.

We have cats on set. Yeah. I mean, I have eight cats at home. So I'm officially, officially. Crazy Cat Lady. Well, so are you. I am too. I think anybody after getting one,

you have more than one, you're a crazy cat lady, your man. But yeah, so I, my being with my, you know, my mom has her a makeup line. So my mom and my dad to make a long story quick, as quick as I can, they got together thinking they're going to create a makeup line and their whole story is incredible,

but they did. And, you know, over time. So your dad helped that. Yeah. Okay, got it. Yeah, they were a part of it. together. That was their journey and that's that's a story in its own. Yeah, like I didn't even know that. Yeah. Okay. So I had basically makeup at my disposal since I was like very, very young and my mom would

cover people with burns and scars and birth marks. And we saw, I saw so many like people with skin disorders and trauma and like birthmark, big dark birth marks on their face. And we would cover their, you know, imperfections with this makeup. So you would help her. Yeah. It'd help her. So from from the time I was like so young. And then at 16, I went to school half day and worked for her half day. Okay. So I was learning as a makeup artist. Like it's in my blood. I can do it in my sleep makeup, basically. So it was makeup before body pain. Oh yeah. Okay. Got it. And then, and that's funny, because as I started, as I went on, I remember like, it was even when I was before I met Aden, I was like, how am I going to do makeup? I worked in salons. I had.

Hated it. Yeah. Salon suck. I don't know how people do it. I give them so much credit because I tried it and it's not for me. So I started to realize 9 to 5 is not for me. I went to a bank and tried to get a job. I'm like, no, I need to work for myself.

Yeah. So I started to do makeup and I started to do, try to do wedding clients and stuff like that. And my mom would help me through. And it just worked really well for me at that time. But I was bored, very, very bored. And makeup, I was like, this. can't be it. And I'm also an artist. I love to draw. I love to paint. And I wanted to sell my art. But I mean, come on. Think about it. There's so many amazing, incredible artists in this world.

So I thought to myself, I'm not, this is how I thought, you know, I'm not the best artist in the world. How can I be different? Right. And being with my dad and my mom being entrepreneurs and having the makeup line, it's just how I thought. And I was thinking out of the box, always out of the box. always out of the box. And I don't even know. I think when I was like, I even say this in the book, think when I was at the bus stop as a kid, I remember being there and the kids were standing around

waiting at the bus and this one girl had shoes but no socks. And I thought, well, I could paint socks on her. Wow. Like I don't even know where that even came from. Why I would even think that? But I say that in the book because I specifically remember that. Right. And it stuck with me.

And then, so painted socks, painted clothes. painted clothes, painted, I could be a body painter. And at that time, and before that, though, because I, literally, guys, I have so much stuff stuck in my memory of the struggle of before and with kids and being married and leading up to this. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast. Every week, we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines, as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation,

mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week, we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we. Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcast.

How old were you again when you had Brandon? Brandon, I think it was 26. Okay. And I didn't have a job. Okay. I did not want me to work. So you got, but how old were you when you got married? 22.

Okay, that's what I thought. I was telling my mom the other day. So telling her how you were coming on this week. And I was telling her that you're going to be talking about that. And I was like, I remember she either had kids young or got married young. Yeah, I got married young. I couldn't get pregnant for some reason. I was trying.

And it was just a struggle. It was really hard. And I think I was stressed out thinking about it. Like the more anybody out there trying to get pregnant, don't think about it. As soon as you let it go, you get pregnant. and that's what happened with me. So I just tried too hard. But whatever.

So it was like four years of four or five years of trying before. And I just didn't work. I was like I did. Eden and I actually, it's so funny. Eden and I struggled. We had a carpet company business where I would, can you imagine me carrying these big heavy carpet machines with him, sweating our asses off and how it's cleaning.

Although I feel like I've seen you like do your swiffer mop in the kitchen so many times. I'm a good cleaner. You are. And you're so quick and, like, fast with it. I'm a good cleaner when I wanted me. I had all that experience. And then we had an auto detailing business where I had no nails because, like, one day I looked at my hands and I'm like, no, I want my nails back.

So I told him, I quit. He's like, you can't quit. And I'm like, I quit. And he's like, what are we going to do? And I'm like, well, that's on you. I'm going to go get my nails done. Yeah, that is funny. Be a girl again.

So, yeah, but then I had babies. So then I didn't work. I stayed at home mom and at homeschooled and all that stuff. And when we got divorced, which was crazy, that whole story, that's a whole different story together, I think. I'm going to focus probably more on the positive side of things and where it went. But there is one story because we really struggled hard with money. I didn't grow up with money. My parents didn't have money.

Everybody around me had money. And to me, money wasn't the most important thing growing up. I just remember I want to find love I was one of those girls I just want to find love money doesn't matter now's a different story no money doesn't buy happiness but it buys things I was there was a is that a beer or a fly

okay um I remember being the same way like I remember because I'd always watch these love movies oh yeah Disney sucks yeah I would watch so many love movies and I was always like no like I would rather find somebody that I love and live in a shack yeah then hate someone and live in a mansion. That's how me and you were very alike. But now we love money because we have money.

Well, yeah. I mean, money, look, I don't need to be rich. I just like to be comfortable, pay my bills, not think about it, buy the food I want. Yeah. I'm not even a brand. You buy brand name clothes. I don't even do that. Yeah, I should stop.

Yeah. You should stop. Some of it's really cheap and they just put their brand on it. Oh, I know. Although these Playboy shirts, I've been splurging on those. They're cute. They're comfortable. and you wear them all the time.

So comfortable. Like literally, this is like my pajamas guys. Yeah. Well, it's sexy pajamas. I rolled out, stuck my pajamas on, new pair of pajamas and came over. But so anyway,

not, not money again, money is just not, was not, I didn't care. So to me, just being happy, you know,

and then doing my makeup and doing my art and all that stuff. But when I left, when it got really bad, and I was like, this can't, we can't be married anymore. I can't be married anymore. I have to move on. What is going to happen? Well, we moved out, me and the kids, kids and I, and I have two stories that I have to share.

The first one was, we would never go anywhere because I was just a stay-at-home mom. I just went nowhere. And I was very predictable in my life. Like, wake up, feed the kids, play with them, homeschool, go to sleep. Work out. Work out. Always work. out. And then when we were out of it, I'm going to say like free, kind of. I took them to the mall. And most malls closed at 9.30 in this area. And it was like 9, 915. So it was emptying out. There's nobody in the mall hallways. And the kids were with me. And they were like, can we run? And I was like, go ahead, just make sure I can see you. They were so happy and weirded out to be at a place at 9 p.m. at night that they just took off.

And Kennedy's like tiny. And she just like follows a brother and sister. And Brandon takes off running and in his deep little raspy voice, Mommy, can I run? It's so cute. And he just takes off. And Claudia goes, can I follow him? And she follows and poor little Kennedy's tagging, trying to catch up with them. Yeah.

And I started crying. They were ahead of me and I just started crying, bawling in the mall because I'm like, oh my God, first of all, I feel free. Second of all, what the fuck am I going to do with my life? How am I going to raise these kids by myself? And even though Aiden was around here and there, it was still like on me, as it always was, felt like. And I just was scared.

I was really scared. And then another time before I became a body painter, we were struggling for money and I would go to social services and I was one of those people that would sit in the lobby and wait for hours and hours and hours. And finally, and we would go to the dollar store for food, which is a dollar each. And I would give each kid $2 and say, you can buy whatever you want with your $2. And we'd leave with $10 worth of food from the dollar store because that's what we could afford it. I could afford it at the time. And I was, I mean, I was doing makeovers for $25. It wasn't even buying me gas. So I would apply for food stamps. And one day, got in the mail that it was approved. And we got $550 for food. And I was like, So would that be monthly or weekly? That was monthly. Okay. So I was freaking out because you're talking about like dollar food store and like dollar, dollar tree, you know, and I would get like chips and they didn't even have a refrigerator in the back. We had no, it was all like canned high sodium, pasta, rice, the cheapest food you can get. And I mean, I was still blessed to have that. And they even had Utt's chips. I was really happy because Utt's is our favorite chip. So we had that on the East Coast. We have. vats. And I looked at the kids when they got home from school and I said, guess what? And they're like, what? I said, I have $550 on the food stamp card. We're going shopping.

I was going shopping at the dollar store tonight. No, we went to the giant. I went up. Upscale. Yeah. We went to giant. And I told each kid, they're little, you know. I think Brandon was like, it's like maybe like eight or nine. And then I said, whatever you can carry in your arms. in the aisles, whatever you can carry, you can throw into the cart. Yeah. And you should have seen them. They were carrying food and food was dropping down on the floor and poor little Kennedy's waddling along with like the food.

And she only has like three things that you can carry. And Brandon's got tons of stuff. And I mean, it was all cookies and crap that they wanted. It was probably Christmas to them. It was to me. And I said, I don't even care if I spend the whole 550 in this one shopping time because I just wanted them to feel like they. could have whatever they wanted because we struggled for so long without it. So yeah, we, we made ends meet

and then, you know, to make it happen, we got this house and I got so lucky to get this house. I had my grandmother helped me put money into it. So that's where you are like the townhouse? The townhouse where we are now. I was super lucky. Yes, speeding forward, forwarding a lot. So did you, when you moved out on your own with just the kids, did you have a job at that time? or it was just like single mom. So my dad, when I moved out of the house with Aden, I moved to this other house, a friend of mine that lent us his house for a little bit.

First floor, second floor, and he just stayed in the basement and let us have those two. He saw me struggling. So, and that's another story. But then we moved on from there, and I'm like, I have to buy my own house. I can't. I don't know what made me want to buy a house.

It might have been my dad might have said you should buy. because you're wasting renting, just buy it so much better. I feel like to it gives us, like to me at least, it gives more of a sense of security. It's not like you're kind of like doing a month to month rent. Yeah, it felt more, yeah, it felt more like, okay, this is our home. We're going to make it work. But it was weird because my mom was helping me and we had a female real estate agent and there were six bidders on this house.

And we, this is another story that I will never forget. We pull up to with, and I have all three kids. And I said, do you want to go see this house? And they're like, yeah, we pull up. It's this ugly brown door in the front. Look, my house is not attractive, okay? So I don't care. I'm not going to say, but it's my house.

And it's this town, brown town house, brown door. I'm like, I look at Brandon. He jumps up out of his seat and he goes, this is the house. And I'm like, no, it's not. You don't know that. He goes, I do know that. And I'm like, okay, whatever. So he gets excited.

His sisters get excited. So we're like, let's go in and see. So we go in and it's like newly painted, new carpet. It's really fresh smelling. You know that new carpet smell and paint smell. So I said, Brandon, go take a look through the house. I'm talking the real estate agent and my mom. And I hear them trampling through.

Of course, Kennedy's just following along. It's just the cutest thing. I can't keep picturing her, like, just waddling. And like, wait for me. And Brandon, I hear them upstairs. I hear them downstairs. I hear them everywhere. And I said, I didn't even look at the house.

did not go through the house myself. I just let them do it. They come back in. I'm like, what do you think? And they're like, we love it. We love it. We want to live here. And I'm like jumping up and down. Oh my God, it gives me chills. And it makes me want to cry because the real estate agent looked at me and she goes, oh my God, there's six bidders on this house. I don't know if I can get it. And I'm like, please try. And so, and again, I didn't look through the house. I didn't look at anything. I just trusted my three kids. They wanted it. I wanted it. Yeah. And we waited a couple weeks and she gives me a call and she goes, you're not going to believe it. I got you guys through. You have the house. She said, I told the owners the real story that you're a single mom. You have three

kids. I told her the story about how the kids went through the whole house and loved it. We're jumping up and down and what they would be doing if they sold you this house. Right. I said, oh my God, thank you. So we've been there. We were there ever since. Wow. That's amazing. Amazing. But soon as I was in that house, I know you know what this feels like. When you go into a house, you just bought it. And you're just looking around like, oh, God, this is it. I thought to myself, I have no job.

Right. I have no money coming in. What am I going to do to pay the mortgage for this? Oh, my God. All of a sudden it hit me. And I started panicking. And I told my dad. And my dad was like, I will help you as long as I can.

And he gave me like $1,000 a month for a few months, maybe six months. months that really helped me. He goes, you tried to do whatever you can do. So I was trying to become a daycare person. And I went through the whole Baltimore County rules and regulations with the fire department. And I was going to do a daycare and do homeschool kids in my house. From my house. And I know we weren't allowed to do that in the townhouse area. We signed like a homeowners association thing. We can't really run businesses out of there. But I wasn't going to say anything. Because I was like adding up. No, I was adding up the money. though and I was like oh my god I could be with my kids my biggest thing was I did not want to leave my

children and not and have a babysitter so I'd have to pay the babysitter the amount of money that I'm working it just didn't make sense to me so I'm like how am I going to do this and I got approved for the daycare but my dad right before I went to get like the license and to make it real and to put the ad in the paper and everything I was saying to my dad I don't know I don't know if I want to do this and he's like, what do you want to do? I said, I'm an artist. He's like, then do art. I said, how am I going to do art? I can't make any money. I'm not making anything. Nobody knows who I am. I'm an unknown artist. He's like, do makeup. I will help you as much as I can. Just move forward. Don't look back. Try it out and see. You will never know unless you try. And I'm like, okay.

So I cut that whole part of the daycare and just out of my mind. And I just focused on, makeup and I started doing $25 makeovers and I was like building my name and getting photographers with pictures and different things and like to push me along to the next step and and I even took on like a model somebody said to me you should work for this modeling agency and I was like what is it I don't model and they're like no no no you do like ambassador programs like so I did and that ended up getting me like you know I was making like 1500 a month plus what my dad was doing me so you were doing makeup for models? Is that how it was? I was doing makeup for models. I was doing makeup for photographers. I was doing ambassador work, which I was one of those girls that you'd see,

like in the middle of Walmart with a little kiosk that had axe spray. Hi, do you want to try axe? Hi, do you want to try axe? Over and over. Yeah. At the liquor store, would you like a shot? Would you like to try this wine? And I felt like a robot, but I was making money. Right. And then doing bar crawls and doing things I was a pirate. I was like the Morganette girl with Captain Morgan pirate and we was two girls and we were there pushing liquor. I mean, we were good because people would say, no, I don't want a shot. Thank you. By the end, we had everybody drunk. Right. And I think I did something similar to that once and stuff like that, those like quick gigs, it's always the best feeling of like that quick, you know, a few hundred bucks of money or something that you can get

from the end of it. Well, it was great because as you build in this company that I was in, if you build, you're building your paycheck for that month. Got it. So I would keep, keep it going and I'd have a monthly check coming in through this company. But, yet I was still able to see my children. That was huge for me. To put them on the bus, well, until they got a little bit older and I was so tired from work that I couldn't even get up in the morning. And then I would trust them and I'd look out the window.

They're like, my kids think I didn't watch them to the bus. I'm like, no, I did watch you. I watched you through the blinds. And sometimes I would sit. Sometimes I would sit on the step. Yeah. I mean, I was literally falling asleep on the step. But I would watch.

And it just became like a routine. And then I would get home late at night because I had to work these guys. gigs, but hey, at least I saw my children during the day and I could be with them. And I mean, you had to do it. I had to. Like, what was the other option? Yeah. And that's the thing, too.

It's like a fine line of like doing what you love, but still making enough money that you can support yourself and your kids. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was really, really tough. And then, oh, and then I had to get roommates. So in between that, I was like, so how can I make my house really work for me? And I had at one point, I had a roommate, a roommate.

So it was Claudia's room, Kennedy's room, the basement. and then the kids lived in my room with me, all three of them. Wow. So we would share. It would be Claudia next to me, running out the rooms. Running out the rooms. And so Claudia would be here. Brandon would be at the end of the bed.

Claudia and I would keep our feet up so we wouldn't kick them off, obviously. And Kennedy had her little toddler bed, and she would lay in her toddler bed. So all of us in my room, I had a bathroom and shower. They didn't have to go anywhere else in the house except for food. And they would go to school all day anyway. So it didn't matter until all the summertime. And then it was. worked. It just worked. I was collecting, you know, money from each roommate. It was paying my mortgage

for me. I was a model with this company. I was doing makeovers. And my dad was helping when he could and eventually he stopped. And I was doing it. I was making it work. I even was doing art classes in my house after school from, I went to a PTA thing, a PTA like meeting type thing. It wasn't a meeting because I never was into the PTA like that. But I told them I did art and I'm a teacher and three kids signed right up and I was making money from that. And my kids were in the art class. So I did whatever I possibly could to make money. And then one day with the modeling company I was with, she's like, you know, they're doing bikini contests down at Bay Cafe was a place in Baltimore. And I was like, oh, God. She goes, some of the girls are making some good money. And I'm like,

I don't know. I've never done that. She's like, you got the body. And I was like, oh, all right, I'll try. So I went down there and a few times. And by the way, those things are rigged like crazy. Yeah, I remember you tell me about that. Yeah. So whatever. I made a little bit, but I still struggled. I'm like, this is all bullshit. But the best part about this is that 98 Rock was, which was our rock station local, was hosting it, these contests. So when I, I I went up and they're like, so what do you do before I would walk the stage? Surprise I didn't fall off or a boob came out or something. No, I feel like I was so awkward. I was so awkward. Really? Yeah, so weird. I wasn't used to that kind of stuff.

I'm not like that. Yeah, I was going to say it seems like you were doing, you weren't the one that was like in the spotlight. You were kind of do, you know, you're doing the makeup and the things. I was always behind, always behind. She was like, so what do you do? and I'm like, uh, I started, I have to back up because I, in between like the modeling is up, my art, my creativity was like dying to get out. So I was like, had this idea to paint clothes on

people. So I had one of my photographers that I did makeup with. And I said, do you mind taking pictures of naked girls that have clothes on them? What are they going to say no? Right. He was like, of course. Every photographer was like, of course, of course. So I get free pictures. And I started painting different things and just practicing. And do you know I was using acrylic paint, regular acrylic paint that you shake in the bottle that you put on like tables and wood and different things? And it was cracking on them. Oh my God.

I tried it on myself to make sure it was safe. And then I put on them, I'm like, hey, it's going to crack after like an hour, but it's going to look good for the pictures. Right. And then I found actual body paint over time. But so, okay, so in my mind, this is what I'm doing. So when they said to me, what do you do? I was like, it just spilled out of my mouth.

I'm a body painter. They're like a bodybuilder. I was like, no, I'm a body painter. Oh, what is that? I paint clothes on people. Really? We should have you on semi-regular. And I was like, yep, you should.

You should definitely have me on. Definitely have me on. And then after I was done, I thought to myself, oh shit, I just got semi-regular on the radio and I don't really know what I'm doing with the paint. So I had to research, really research. and get good products because I was like, I can't take acrylic paint on radio. They're going to think I'm an idiot.

So they wanted you to come on to paint someone and like show it? Yeah. So for years, we would go on the morning show like every six weeks. I'd take a model and there'd be a webcam there. And I would tell the model wear a robe. We go to the bathroom, wear a robe, turn to me, bring your robe down to like right above her butt. So her whole back is showing naked. You can't see anything.

while they're doing their radio show thing, I'm painting the front of her. Then when she's painted, she turns around, a lot of the pictures are in that book. She turns around, drops the robe, and I do the back and connect everything.

Got it. And her legs are crossed. Her legs are like crossed. So you can't see anything. Not yet. No, she's standing. Okay. So,

because she's like, well, what if I said, I'm going to camouflage that down there. Don't worry. And I would camouflage it with like a zipper or like gene material looking.

And it worked. And then she would sit. But when she turned, I said, just keep your legs crossed so they can't see anything. Right. And it worked. It was so perfect every time. And then they would interview her. So, and me.

And because of that, I got very, I got locally known through 98 Rock. So there's a lot of people, you know, guys and different things that listen to 98 Rock girls do too, but a lot of guys. Because they're kind of like a nasty morning show at that time. I don't know what they are now. I don't listen to them. Sorry, guys. but at that time it was kind of crude and they would put me on the spot

and say things to me about different things because people would think body painting I had to fight really hard to get credibility right so because I could have went one way which is the way that they were trying to make me go but my brain kept saying more like a sexual very sexual very sexual

and because my boobs are big and you know I have the kind of body that that attracts that like that's what I would get all the time I was used to it especially growing up as a kid with big boobs and a body I mean just got used to guys looking at me like that so to me it was like normal and I knew how to handle it but I also knew that I wanted to get corporate companies to pay attention to me because I wanted the credibility from real companies yeah because you were producing art and it was your business and then it was like people I think I must think that by people portraying it as just like this sexual nudity thing, it downplays it, which it's not to not,

for, I don't want to say not everybody, not hardly anyone, I feel like can actually paint on a body and make it make people believe, you know, that it's clothing. Yeah. And that is why I used like a lot of, you know, medium to smaller chested girls because it was easier to camouflage unless I was doing, it's funny because different body types work with different designs. Styles, yeah. Yeah, if I needed a boostier, then I could have used somebody with implants or bigger boobs or something, you know, I go with the body of the person. And it was really interesting because it started taking off. And I would just, but I'd be fighting that all the way. I'm going to still to this day fight that. Not as much because they know, like at least the people here. But if they're new people,

they're always like, oh, body painting. Ooh. I'm like, no, it's not like that. Right. And, but like, I mean, I started getting companies, like really good companies to use us. And I like to call them now like brand ambassadors because they're not. And that took years to come up with that name, which is silly because the name is so, it seems like it would be so simple. So are you talking about when you would like have the bottles and then you'd paint the logos, right? Yeah. So, yeah. So I would do logos.

I got to the point, yeah, where I took it from clothes to logos because I was like marketing, marketing. How can I make, because when you're in marketing and anytime you're in business for yourself with marketing, you are all about the other person or the other company trying to make them money. What are they going to want out of you? What can you do for them to make them more money? You don't think about yourself because I was going to get the credibility anyway because I was painting. But how could I actually make money from this and make them money from this, which was the sponsors and getting people to see their local. go they were literally walking billboards and I promoted it like that and it worked I mean I now Brandon it's so funny because I just watched Brandon and your podcast so I was like oh he's wrong he's

memory loss yeah the first time Brandon was body painted uh-huh was for I I got hired with the science um oh right right okay yeah the what does it call down there the the science center yeah the science center It was body worlds too. They were traveling. It was the cadavers where they had the skin pulled off them. They had the camels and they had the people and they had the pregnant lady. But you would go through and watch them all and they're all like showing all the muscles and everything.

And the news wanted, I was doing a Mr. Anatomy, which also was in this book. And I did it twice, actually, for them. And it got so much coverage. Oh, my God. The news came out in the morning. It was like 6.30 in the morning. But Brandon, I painted. I wanted to test it because I was scared. Oh my God, I was so scared. Right. But yeah, it's huge. Yeah. Oh my God,

it's going on the news. I'm doing this huge like world event. Like this is insane. And the science center is literally taking me seriously. Art and science meat. And so I was like Brandon and he didn't understand like what I was doing and he would get angry at me. And because I was painting girls or people or whatever, he couldn't understand it. There was no, literally I had no respect when I first started this. That alone was a struggle, was gaining the respect of my son and for him to understand why I was doing this. So I said, come here. And I took the paint and I painted the muscles like on his arm and on his chest, I believe, up his neck. And I took a picture of it, ended up on the news. And I said, Brandon, you're on the news. And he's like, what?

And as soon as he saw that picture on the news, that I was, his mom's on the news. He's on the news with paint on him. Yeah. I think he realized like, oh, my mom's cool. Well, I think too, for kids in general, I think, I mean, even just from my own experience of like things that I used to think of as a kid and how differently I view them now as an adult or even how I'll view them differently in 10 years from now. It's really, I think people or kids, you know, when kids in school, like he was saying

in his episode of like the kids saying like, oh, like your mom paints naked girl. So I feel like for him, he had this thing in his brain of a. It was like embarrassment and like it was awkward and all this stuff. But in reality, he like, it's hard for a kid to see your side of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I get it. I totally understood.

Right. I mean, I remember one time we walked to another way. There was these girls naked in my, in my kitchen and walking around in like their underwear, getting ready to put their bottoms on. I'm like, yeah. And they put their clothes on. And then they're like, is this your son? Brian?

Come here. He'd long hair. They're like, come here. And they were outgoing girls with, you know, boobs. and they're like, come here, and they put him next to their, he's like, comes right up to their boobs, you know, and they get a picture and he's like, he just felt, I think he liked that part of it, but. Made him feel cool. Yeah, I think. But then when he walked out of the house, it was like, oh, God.

And I get it. I totally get it. I felt bad for him. I tried really hard to stay away from his school. And I tried hard to not, like, thank God he was a good student. I never had to go in to see his teachers really. the girls were complete opposite. I would go in all the time for Kennedy especially,

but Claudia wanted me to come in and see her work and break, like it was refreshing because Brandon never asked me to come see him in his classroom. I was like I felt like I didn't have a kid in school. And I wanted to, obviously, wanted to be a part of it, but he wouldn't let me. And I was like, it was sad, a little bit sad, but it all worked out. But they, he finally got, he finally accepted me for that. Then one time he had me. paint him for a college thing and I think I did do muscles on him after I did the sign center

and it was a hit. He had me paint his whole entire, I think chest and arms, but I left the portion out of just skin. So it looked like it was being, oh, that's what it was. It was pieces of it looking like it was ripped off and muscles behind it. And he went to like some Halloween thing, I think, something. He said he didn't go to any parties, but he did go to that. And I guess he was in college then. So that was. was, you know, after that, then he started to accept it. As soon as he graduated high school, and he accepted it. Because I was making money.

I was doing really good. And I started having, like, an actual event season where come, you know, come around October, November, December, January, it would slow down. I had event seasons. I was going to D.C. doing events. I was doing Jonathan Ogden. That's also in there. The football charities, Ravens, jerseys. Right.

Because it, you know, I think that aside. from the struggle of people, maybe not always seeing it as like a business and as art, it was something that was so unique and no one else was doing it. So I think the fact that they could have this where, and if you think about it, a lot of times, especially for men, what drives them to spend money as women. So to get women, you know, painted, basically naked. I think that's, you know, was probably their mindset. It's like, oh, we have naked women, but we're also, we have our logo on their boobs. So it works. So I feel like that was, and that you were the only one doing that. So I feel like it was a way.

win when because it was able to get you out there, your name out there, but also like I started noticing people trying to copy me. And I was like, you know, in a way that's like a compliment and in a way it was really annoying. Yeah. Because a couple people. You look at it as a compliment to be the bigger person, but it's fucking annoying. Yeah.

There was a couple situations, not saying names, but there was a couple situations where they would literally try to steal my place out of the radio station. And they stuck up for me. They were like, no, Jen, the body painter's our girl. We started with her. We don't need anybody else. Right. And I was like, oh my God, thank you guys for being so loyal because that would have really sucked.

I think, too, it's pretty easy to, well, if you're smart, it's easy to see through people. And I feel like you are very genuine and very open. And it's just for your raw and people just see it as it is. And then I think when somebody comes in and might be trying to copy or be conniving, it's pretty obvious. It's really funny because now that I'm thinking about it, like the way I'm going, back a little bit. Way I started was one of my photographers, one of my really good friend photographers and very professional. You probably even got pictures taken with him once. Really?

Nova Modeling Agency back when Christian was his name, an amazing photographer, a sweet person. I only got photographed by a weird guy, so. No, that wasn't him. He's not weird. No. He was amazing. So he had like all these comp cards like in his office and he would get real jobs for people. So he and I put out like an ad and we're like doing a body paint calendar or something that we were doing. I don't think it ever came to a calendar, but we wanted it to. We got all these girls coming in and we were interviewing and we were like auditioning and seeing he would be good for what and we booked girls and it was practice for me and practice for him. And it was really cool. but that's the first time that I really dove into it.

And I started noticing like so many weird things were happening. Girls were coming in either hungover and no food and they were passing out. Well, this is what I thought was happening. So, okay, girls were passing out. And it was happening more often than not. And I was like, what is happening? What's going on? Yeah.

They would pass out to the point where it just kept escalating. And one time I had to grab a girl at her shoulder. because she was falling backwards. And I pulled her towards me. Like as you were painting her? Yes. I saw her eyes like roll and I was like, oh my fucking God,

what the hell's happening to this girl? So I grab her shoulders, pull her towards me. And she starts, and then she's sweating and she goes through the whole like, I was going to pass out kind of thing. I had a wave fan.

Like I started getting so professional at it, waving fans at them. I'm just like, and then I'm like, okay, I can't be in a room left alone anymore with these girls because if they do fall, I can't necessarily catch them.

And I just finished painting them for like two hours and it's going to get so messed up. So I'm like, but why are they doing this? Why are they passing out? It can't be the product because the product. I think I know you're going to say. Is it what happened to me? Yeah. When I was like within the knees.

The breathing. Well that and like I think right. So yeah. So I started like when people cheerily, they say don't lock your knees. Uh-huh. So I started telling people that. That wasn't even a slight. They were holding their breath because they were scared to talk in my face with their breath.

Okay. So in the very beginning, I would give them a hug and I would say, look, real close to their face. Me and you, we're going to be like this right now. And you can breathe in my face because I'm going to breathe in your face. If I have bad breath, tell me I'll eat some gum. Yeah. Same with you. Do not worry about it.

Right now we are one. And if you don't breathe, you're going to pass out. Yeah. And it stopped. It stopped the situation. I like broke the ice with that. You thought they were all coming in, hungover. Well, a couple were.

Because I was up close and I was like, you smell like alcohol. Stale else alcohol. They smell terrible. Well, they were all pretty young. And then I would say to them, did you go out last night? Yeah. She's like, oh, yeah.

I'm like, tell me about it. And then she would tell me about it. A lot of times if I got them to talk, it would keep them breathing. Got it. But then it would keep them moving. And I'm like, oh, stay still, stay still. Oh, okay, you can talk. When I paint clothing, they can move a little bit more.

When I paint logos, I'm like, stay still. There's a couple times where I painted logos and I cried because I felt like I couldn't do it. I got in over my head. I'll show you this one. This one brought tears to my eyes. Yeah. I could find it. Was it one more in the beginning or more when you had been doing it for a while?

I have been doing this for a while. And if you get this book, you guys, you'll see a lot of different things. here but there's a couple of them this this was one of them but this one right here specifically oh my god this one right here well i can't see it this one yeah literally four and a half hours of tears like i looked up this girl because of the detail she's like six foot and i looked up at her and i'm like i can't do it i can't do it anymore and she's like you can do it do it finish it. I'm like, oh my God, okay. I'm like, I just, it was so hard some of it because it's like you're doing it on a moving person. You're doing it with, you know, crevices of the body.

And texture. And that's a logo logo. That was a cigar logo for like a company. Yeah. And if it's wrong, I look like an idiot. Right. You know, and I just wanted it to be perfect. And sometimes it, in my eyes, I look at it and it's not perfect, but they thought it was perfect because I made it pretty damn close. Yeah, as good as you could. Some of it looked like stickers you could peel off. And then, of course, they just go home and take showers. But we have the pictures.

It didn't matter. And, yeah, that was insane. That was like a lot of pressure. Some of them, and I definitely wasn't charging enough for it. Yeah. Because I wanted the job so bad and I didn't want to lose it. And I needed to still get my name out there. And, you know, that just never stopped.

That feeling never stopped. I still believe to this day I never charged as much as I should have charged what I was worth. Yeah. But I think too, like it's really hard to know when you're doing things on your own. It's hard to know how much to charge. And I think like you were saying there is the fear of like, well, I rather just at least get the job so I have it, you know. And then I get it. And I'm like, oh, man, they said yes so easily.

I should have gotten like another 500. Yeah. I got better at negotiating over the years. But, you know, it's just very time consuming. It's just a lot of work. like when you were painted, same thing. Like, you know what it's like because you were there. It's hard for the model.

It's hard for me. It's a lot of bending over. And then when you're done painting, you have to go to the event for hours and hours and hours and hours. So you're talking like 14 hour days. Yeah, it doesn't stop it just. No. And then I don't know how I did it. But after the event, then I'd go party.

And I don't know how I did that because I had kids. Yeah. So I would be like, you know, half eyes closed in the morning. That's why. but I struggled and I made it work. And I just kept getting recognized more and more and more. And then when I did the book, that got on the news. And that, you know, this is basically one of those things.

Another thing was a billboard that I wanted. It's like in my mind, I kept saying, okay, I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this. And one of them was a book. One was a billboard. One's also writing about my life story and everything that happened. And Kennedy wants me to do this. So I'm contemplating. I'm thinking about it.

It's just a lot of work. Yeah. I know it's a lot of work because I went through with that. Right. I think that too is something that you could do like gradually and at your own pace. You know, you could start it and then just kind of work on it when you feel like it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Because there's no real, but you got me, you should have a deadline for it because otherwise it'll just go on. You could have, well, you could have deadlines for like each chapter maybe. Chapter section. That's smart. Got to start somewhere with it. But I mean, I don't do much else other than, you know, I'm doing body painting is trickling in a little bit and makeup. Well, I do have a question. When you, I thought that one of the first times you did it, wasn't it on yourself,

you painted yourself as? That's what I remember, because that's in here too, right? I'm in there, yep. I'm in there for that. Because was that for an event also? That was not an event. Oh, you're talking about the cheetah. Yes.

The cheetah, okay. For the longest time, I never even knew was you until you told me it was you. Right. Okay. Because you did your whole thing. A lot of people said that. Three months later, they're talking about the cheetah and I'm like, oh, that was me. I swear, it's in here, right?

Yeah. I swear it really, I just got hit in the head with a bug. I swear, I didn't know. Right after the story, I believe, like a couple pages. Yep, you're on it right now. Where? You just had it right there. Yeah, like I never knew that was you.

Okay, so after we did the body paint calendar. Here it is, for those of you watching. Yeah. Like, you wouldn't know. Would you? I would have never known that was her. And that's my mom in there helping me get my back. It's so funny because my roommate too,

One of the roommates that I was with that was living in my house was this guy named Art. Oh, God. That's the one with the parrot, right? He might be listening to this. He just recently reached out on Facebook to me, but I was like, whatever. Yeah. Yeah, that was interesting. He actually helped me and took pictures of me.

I think those were the pictures he took. That's just funny. Yeah. Yeah, he was a Mexican stripper, and he rented the basement. And I don't believe Brandon was living there at that time. Brandon wanted to live with his dad for a little bit. But he knew about the parrot. He was talking about the parrot.

He knew about the parrot because Brandon would come back every once in a while and stay with us. Okay. Because I think his dad wanted him to live with him for a little while. I felt like it was important that he was with his dad for a little bit of time. But as soon as Brandon wanted to come back home, I had him come right back home. Yeah. And the timing was perfect because we had nobody in the basement at the time. So he took the basement at that time.

And by the way, guys, his room is not a cupboard. For God's sake. Now, I am guilty of one thing Because this brings back something And I told Dakota about this the other day And I was laughing so hard The house is brand new So imagine fresh paint,

fresh carpet, fresh everything We go downstairs And in the laundry room There's the steps This is probably what he's remembering There's steps And there's carpet And it's brand new carpet

So it's nice And I'm thinking Roommates, roommates, Money, how am I going to make this work? Brandon, you know, we could put little bed right here and you could sleep here, it's under the steps. And your room could be here. He's like, Mom, I'm not taking the laundry room. Oh my God. I'm like, but you could wash your clothes really easily. Uh-huh. And that was, he was so mad. And he was like, I can't believe you would ask me if I want to take the

laundry room. Uh-huh. He's like, I would take the basement. And I'm like, no. So, okay, so I gave him Kennedy's room, which is the smallest room. Kennedy was all the way up in the corner. Yes, It's a small room. And Kenny was right when she was doing her podcast. It was tiny. But that was Brandon's room first. And the only reason... And then he had the whole basement at one point.

He did. Yeah. Well, I gave that to Kennedy. I mean, gave that to Brandon. And Claudia and Kennedy, oh my God, I barely remember this. Shared Claudia's room. Can you believe they were in that room together? So small, right.

And then when Brandon moved out, yes, Kennedy was like, can I have that room? I'm like, they wanted to be split up. They wanted to have their own separate space. So I said, okay, take... I had no choice. And it's not like I didn't want Brandon to come back. And then the roommates, then my best roommate left. And then he took the basement at that point.

But boy, the roommate situation was insane. Yeah. I had some crazy roommates. That's all I can say. Yeah. It was not. He had a parrot and parrot. I remember trying to get in.

You'll hear bits and pieces of this on like different videos because I've told stories. Yeah. But this is like the real stories. He had art had a parrot And he had moved in I didn't know it yet I didn't know all his stuff was in And I didn't know the parrot was in the house

And I go to open the door and I can't like I'm juggling Jiggling around with my keys And I hear hello Stop And I was like someone's in my fucking house And I'm like hello Like hello I thought it was like a cleaning person

That he had got to come in the house She's trying not to laugh. It's funny because Brandon has like, he was like, if I could go into detail of the roommate she had, he was like, it's hilarious. So then I open up, I don't hear anything. I'm like, hello? And I hear another, hello? And I keep going and I'm like, it literally sounds like a person.

And I see this parrot going, hello, hello. And I was like, hello. He has a parrot and it's in my kitchen. and it stayed there for a couple years since he was there. However long he was there. I don't remember how long he was there for it. So you had another roommate, a bird. Yeah, basically.

So every time he would go and leave, I would try to teach this bird. Fuck art. Fuck art. Fuck art. So I don't know when he took the bird. He almost didn't take the bird when he left. He almost left the bird in my kitchen. I went, excuse me, we were on such bad terms at that point.

Yeah. I said he made holes in my wall. I was holding him. his airline tickets. I wouldn't give him his airline tickets. It was like a battle, major drama. And I said, oh, you're leaving? You're leaving without your bird? Take your bird. I don't know what happened to that poor bird. I felt so bad for that bird, but I didn't want the bird. Yeah. And I love animals. It was just pissing me off. Also, it was in your kitchen. This is in my kitchen. And then every roommate left some, a bunch of crap. Some piece of them.

There was furniture and they were shit. And my backyard started looking like a junkyard. and it started getting dry rotted wood in the back. And it started, my house looked the worst out of everybody on the block. I look like a homeless, not homeless because we're at home, but it literally looked like a disgusting. Like a hoarder. Yeah. And we weren't allowed to have any of that.

Thank God I had a fence because I could hide it behind all the fence. Right. But it was bad. It was really, really, really bad. And I was just me. I couldn't carry all that stuff. And I had no money, no money, because all through the body painting and all through the makeup, It was always a struggle. Every time I would wait to get a paycheck, it was like, because in the corporate

world, they take 30 days to get your money. So I would write the invoices and I'd have to wait and wait and wait. I'm like, oh my God, by the time I got my paychecks, all the bills are due again. So I had to like constantly, I had no money in my bank account, constantly, nothing. Couldn't buy the kids, things they wanted. I mean, we lived. I paid for the house. It was always like, and they didn't really bug me too too much. Poor Kennedy couldn't get like going field trips too much or get things that all her kids got because I just didn't have it. Yeah.

I needed it for the real bills. Well, I was going to say too, I think once you started making money, it's like that was great. But it was still like at that point you're just trying to pay every, like you said, pay all the bills. Get the groceries. Yeah. And it's like it wasn't, it's not like you're making enough to live lavishly. It was like more like you were making. I feel like you started to make the amount that you wished you had been making.

You know what I mean? It was like crawling under from under the ground. Yeah. I like was slowly coming up to like the ground level. And then once I was a ground level, then I had to build from there. So thank God. Like I swear, sometimes I look back and I'm like, I don't know how I did it. There were times, I remember a specific time where I was crying.

The kids went to Aden's and Claudia had such separation anxiety. She did not want to go. There were so many times when she was young and was clinging to my leg and her fingernails in my leg. I don't want to go this day. And I was like, oh my God, so sad. It was like bringing tears in my eyes, but I had no choice because I had to work. And I went back home and I would cry. And I remember being in the bathroom.

I turned the lights off. I put the shower on and I sat down on the shower floor and cried my fucking eyes out. And yeah, I would think like when you're really low like that, that was really rock bottom. I think every time I became rock bottom, I came out of it a lot stronger each time. that I actually, and I would never think like suicide, but I actually thought to myself, there were fleeting moments where I thought, oh my God, this life sucks. And then I would think about my kids. And I'm like, nope, this life doesn't suck. Your kids are here. You have your kids. You love them. They love you. That's all that matters. And then I couldn't wait to go pick them up

again. Right. You know, and it just, they would give me the light. They would breathe life into me every time that we were together. And that's what got me through, I think. I really do. I do. That was like the driving force. When I was eight years old, I wanted to be a mom. I knew it. I wanted to be a mom.

That was when people would say to me, what do you want to do when you grow up? I want to be a mom. Yeah. That's it. That's not a job. Yeah, it is. You're just not really paid for it. Right.

But it is a job. And the homeschooling thing was so important to me because Brandon, his personality was so, he was the kind of kid that would stand back and be very cautious. And all the kids are on the jungle gym, but he wouldn't go on it because he would. He didn't know how to step on it first without falling. And he had to figure it out in his head. And I remember one time he jumped, he was climbing. It was but we were alone in the playground.

And I was talking to another mom. It's like maybe one other kid there. And nobody was on the jungle gym. And he climbs and he's, I guess he got to the top somehow. Uh-huh. And I hear mom, mommy, mom, mom. I'm like, oh my God, what? Did he fall?

He's just clinging to the top of it. And I'm like, I go on a. pick him up. I'm like, what's your problem? He's like, I couldn't get down. I'm like, you got up. You go back down the same way. Yeah. And he's like, oh. So it was like one of those things he stepped out of his box, his little box, and tried it. And he didn't like how it ended. So he would be just stand. So I noticed he was the kind of kid and he didn't really like other kids playing with his toys. He didn't like sharing. He was to his sisters he was. But like other kids, he would get very weird around other kids.

And so I didn't send them socially into like preschool, like most parents would. I would homeschool them, take them to the grocery store, give them each $10 and say, you have to use this calculator and add up this and spend the $10 but calculate the tax into it. And they all did it. And they learned math. And the register lady would be like, this is so cool. This is like awesome.

She did that hair. Hair goes flying. This is the coolest thing. And I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, I don't do the normal. day of school but and then their Baltimore County would or we lived in Carroll County at the time they had a rule that you had to come in and you had to show the work that they did twice a year so I'm like oh god I got to get a booklet I like a school book for them and just calculate everything so we get the workbooks I go to the school teacher school stores and get the books and rip the

mountain so you do this you do this and he hated it oh my god he hated doing the school work but I'm like we have to do this because we have to show something and I would have to have it all organized and we would go in and they would approve us and they'd look at him and say ask him questions and he one time he just like started crying it was so sad he was like he was like eight years old and they made him feel stupid yeah and that's why i didn't like teachers that's why i kept them out because i was bullied i had the worst elementary and junior high school experiences ever in my life. Like it made me so shy and it made me so scared to ask, like, of adults to ask for things that I wanted. It took me years to figure out how to ask. Like your own voice, yeah. Yeah, it was weird.

And I saw that in him. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. So I homeschooled him for a good reason. And then when he was nine, he had to go to school because I was divorced and we moved into this house. And thank God we had Cedar Mirror, which was that amazing little elementary school. and that kind of paved the way for the rest of the schools. And that's where they went to Franklin, where they met you, right? Because, yeah, they didn't know you in elementary school. They had their little friends there. And then I just remember, like, crying.

I cried a lot back then. I cried when Brandon went to school for the first time. I cried when Claudia did and when Kennedy went to kindergarten. It just felt like every time I was apart from them, it was like my heart. heart was being ripped. I feel like almost you probably had separation. I did. I did. Because everything you were doing was for yourself and for them. I just felt like I brought them into this world. I wanted to get married. I wanted to have an amazing marriage. And like we talked about Disney, that's what I had in my head. And I met this amazing man and he was just perfect for me. And I didn't even

know what I wanted back then. I didn't even know who I was. And then I did have my kids. So I have to say, I did get what I wanted. Thank God they were all healthy. and I nursed all of them the way I wanted to and I was just there for them. So, yeah, so letting them grow up, especially being a single mom and do things on their own, it was very heart-wrenching to me. Yet I still wanted them to become their own person

and have their own voices. And they were shy, all of them. All of them were like me, shy like that and didn't speak up and only recently now are. starting to. Yeah. Which I feel like when Claudia and I met, that's like I was shy back then. Yeah.

Yeah. She was like sweet, innocent, shy and I'm just this crazy young little bitch. You probably helped her come out of Michelle though. Yeah. I mean, we were total opposites, but we just hit it off right away. Yeah. But it's awesome. I mean, she was very, very quiet and shy.

And then she started getting crazy and that's when we had our crazy high school life. Brandon was too. Brandon was really shy. I remember we would drive him to school. Yeah. Oh, my God. Oh my God. I loved your mother for that.

I loved your mother for that because I was those late nights. I was having those late nights. So we'd pick them up. And she said, you want me to just take them to school? I'd pick them up. Because I had to get up anyway. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, my God, yes.

Thank you. And it was like I felt so relieved that they didn't have to sit at the bus stop and wait. Yeah, it was all, even though, by the way, it was across the street. I think too, but it was a busy road too. Yeah, it was really busy. And I think it was just easier just to, you know, if we were driving. Because I was close too, but. You know, I technically was walking distance, but I wasn't going to walk.

No, I think the one time Kennedy crossed the street, a car hit her heel. Oh my gosh. She was with a friend. Yeah. It's a dangerous road. And she's like never again. Yeah. Well, I was going to say too, which I know that I told you more recently, maybe like a year ago now.

But when Claudia and I became friends and I would always come over, I don't remember if you and I would talk then as much. I feel like we didn't as much. Probably not when you were young, young. No. But I do remember that whenever I'd come over, I always thought the way I viewed you was so different than I guess what you actually were going through. But I just remember, I think, well, obviously, I always thought you were so, such a cool mom

because you were so pretty and you were always just like doing your thing. And your mannerisms or something. Like, I just always admired you. Yeah, it was like really weird stuff. Really weird stuff. Like even just like when you drive us in the car and like the way that you would just like, you have what is the way to describe it like you were I don't not you were confident you came off as very confident but also just you were so like you just like tunnel vision like always knew what you're

doing and just zippity just doing it yeah like this is going to sound funny but even in the car the way you'd like pick up your coffee and drink it and just like always know what you were saying oh my god that's so funny yeah I know what you mean because I've done that with people before and like at the stoplights you would just be like like speed texting on your phone and then put it down and then keep driving it's just like those little things it just always seem Like you just, you were on a mission or something. That's so funny. And I remember always seeing that. And then also, like I said, just thinking you were such a pretty mom.

And it was just so crazy. You had such a good body. And I remember because it's funny, obviously you're older than me. And as a mom, I was like so shocked. I said, how does a mom have such a good body? And I feel like there was definitely, you were definitely. Well, first of all, actually, and I've told you this too, me doing my first body painting thing with you was the reason I started working out. because I knew that's when you started

It has a lot of positive impact on people. You started doing the Instagram and I knew that my naked body was going to be online and I was always skinny but I had no tone. I didn't work out and I was like if I'm going to be on social media getting body painted I need to go to the gym

and I remember I think I had maybe like three weeks before because remember we talked on the phone and planned it out a couple weeks in advance and like those few weeks up to it I started working out like crazy trying to eat healthier and that was kind of my A lot of people do that Yeah, that was my starting point for the gym.

A lot of people. But I think also I just always looked at you and was like, she's perfect, you know. Oh my God. I'm so far from perfect. It makes me wonder, though, if that's why I like started dyeing my hair black. Oh, my God. I'm seriously though because I was thinking about it. And I was like, I had pretty light brown hair.

And growing up through high school, I always had highlights in it. And I was like, I wonder if they were, because I don't remember. But if there was any type of like I liked your black hair. And then that's when I started dyeing my hair black. But because, you know, when you're young, you look up to people. And I remember too, always. thinking it was just so cool like the life you lived i was like i wish i could like lay in my bed and just like be chill and but still look so good and still make money like i didn't ever see it

of like what you actually were going through you know what i mean you don't realize that you're a mentor to people no and i just always thought you i just i viewed you as it like it just seemed like you never said anything no those were just thoughts i had and then i don't think i told you until like i said i think a year ago or so when we were driving to i remember having that thought about an aerobic instructor because I did aerobic teaching for a long time. Yeah, when I was married, I was doing it aerobic. That's probably what kept me in shape. Yeah. I all through my pregnancies, but I know what that feels like to look at somebody and look up to them. And I was young. So it was just like coming over. I just remember thinking like, that's the body I want. That's what I want

to look like. It was just everything. And then... And look at you. She looked just like me. Now I've become her. I actually, it was a sick obsession. I've turned into Jen. No, but it just, It's funny, though, because that's how I feel like that's how I viewed you. And we, obviously, when I was younger, I was just going to your house at the time for Claudia. Yeah, I think we started talking. I think I somehow knew that you would listen. Yeah. And I started talking about guys.

Because I would always, because I remember in high school, I was so guy crazy. I mean, that's all. I even remember thinking as when I was in high school, like, geez, I'm surprised I have any friends because of how often. I mean, all I talk about is guys. And I was like, how do I have friends? Because how do they even want to listen to me at this point? I didn't have any friends. I had my kids.

I had Claudia and she just would sit there and listen. But then when I'd come over and then sometimes we'd be talking about it and you'd either come in or we'd go into your room and talk. And then that's, I feel like how we started talking about things. That's funny because we would talk for hours and I'd hear Claudia yelling from her room. Mom, she doesn't want to talk. Let her go. I'm like, she does want to talk. Yeah.

You did. If you wanted to go, you'd go. Yeah, I like talking to her. I know. It was like we had some good conversations about guys and different. and different things. And I was trying to help you because I saw myself in you. Right.

You were doing a lot of things that I did. I had some crazy-ass situations. Yeah. Boyfriends like bad. Right. Just not good for me at all. And you were kind of doing the same thing. But you were a little less, I think you were a little less abusive to yourself than I was.

I was just, I was a different person. I think you were a little less abusive. I don't know what. think I was just a nut that wanted to find love but was finding it and all the wrong people. So it wasn't. And I was young. I mean, what do you expect when you're freaking 15, 16? I mean, I wasn't, I didn't even know who I was or what I wanted.

I mean, I was just trying to find a guy. I mean, I was like the third guy I'd ever been with. Like, and I got married to him and had kids. Like, to me, I had no life. Like, no, no living experience. And I literally went from my mom and my dad to Aiden's mom's house and then we moved out together and that was it. I was like, I guess in a way I was sheltered, but maybe not. Like, I don't know. Like, it's- Well, I think to it, it depends on the person how much experience

they feel they need or they need or even want to experience. Like, I feel like for me, I, my issue, which I knew was that I could never be single. I didn't want to be single. I didn't like it. And it didn't even matter if the next person was so shitty. I just wanted to be with somebody else because I was like feeling a void. I remember thinking, oh my God, if I'm not with somebody, I'm going to be alone and it took a lot to, God, turning 54, it took a lot to really become myself and not have that anymore. And it's very unhealthy because I look back at it. I'm like most of my life, I really, really wanted to be with somebody. And I didn't even at some points know who I even was. I was kind of molding to their lives and what they wanted. I didn't even know what would make me happy.

I would sit down and be like, and I had therapists and different, you know, people to talk to, and I literally did not know what would make me happy. I had my art. I had my kids. I had my body painting. I still was missing something. I think people are always feeling like they're missing something if they aren't tuned into themselves completely. And it takes a lot of work.

It takes a lot of self-work. And it's, you can't explain it to someone. They have to kind of just go through it. and everybody goes through it at a different stage in their lives. Some, like you, you're able to go through it sooner than I did. You also have a very, you know, Brandon is a very, I know, Brandon is very busy and he makes a certain type of boyfriend, but he also allows you to be an individual. And I never had that.

I had guys that wanted to control me all the time, all the time. So I didn't even know if I was like left alone, I wouldn't even known what to do. what to do with yourself, right? Especially without kids, but with kids, oh my gosh. Like, I don't regret the things that I did, because I feel like they definitely made me who I am today. But after listening to Kennedy's situation with, like, certain people, I do regret that I didn't end it quicker and let it just drag on.

And I don't, I think it was my tiredness. I think also, like you said, people have to learn on their own time. There were so many times that I knew. the answer was to leave. My friends would say, that is bad. You need to leave. And I could never do it until I was ready to do. You have to be ready.

Or what I would do is I would push them until, like, I would do shitty things. I would do that too. Until they would get so angry. Yeah. And they would have to leave. Right. And then I'd be sad. Yep.

I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have done that. It's like a horrible. It's like a horrible toxic. Sabotage. Yep. Toxic cycle. I would do the same shit.

Or like I remember too is when I was in high school. if there was nothing bad happening, but I knew the person wasn't right for me. I tried to stir something up to make it end. And then like you said, be sad about it because it's you, you form this attachment and this tie to people. And it's, it's, it all spurs back to, you know, like we said, just not being independent and not. Which is weird because my parents, like they were entrepreneurs and they would like, I don't

know. I'm just one of those kids. I just didn't want to sleep out. I didn't want to, I didn't want to do anything. Well, you had a vision of what you're, you had a goal of what you wanted, I think, for love and for yourself. And I think that it's hard. You have to go through people and experiences to find that. And I think that I feel like you and I are the type of people that even if you know something's wrong, you want to try to fight for it and try until you really are like, okay, this is not a choice. Yeah. But I think that we give things more chances than they need. Yeah. You let them linger a little too long. And but the one thing is like I said before, I is my at my, at my. lowest times, I would come back and I would be even stronger. And it wouldn't be more than like a day or two that I would go down, down under, into the dark, on the dark side. And then I would

come out into the light and just be like, I'm going to, I'm going to do this. I'm going to make this work. I'm going to do this. I can do this. Help that I had support. But it was a lot of my own subconscious. You know, you have to really, really tell yourself that you can do things. And when you really do it and let it go is when it happens. And it worked. It kept working and it kept working. So I just kept doing it and doing it and doing it. And a lot of bad things happened after divorce. Like it was not, it was not a fun time. And I'm not saying that, you know, I don't believe staying in a marriage with children just for the children to stay married. I don't think that's smart because you're not giving yourself the love.

Right. And I couldn't have grown if I wouldn't have left and gone on in my own experiences and having these horrible things happen like a DUI while I have kids. Like that was horrible. And I had to deal with that. And because I did. I went into the down under and I went drinking and I was like, you know, really feeling shitty about myself, I guess at that time.

and then I had a neglect case right after that. Like, it was insane the shit that happened to me. I was in front of the dollar store. I was doing this all for Claudia because she had a birthday party that we were rushing to get to and she didn't have a present. So I'm like, we're going to go to the dollar store. We spent a lot of time at the dollar store. And we're going to get a present really quick.

And I left Brandon and Kennedy in the car. And I left them in the front. What I didn't realize is because I was rushing, which is weird for me, I left the car on. And I didn't realize I left the keys in there. That was so weird. I still don't to this day remember this. I think I blacked out. And I ran in.

It was really busy. And I'm in line in this long line with Claudia holding her hand. And people are going, there's a, someone left their kids in the car. And I see my car and I see a cop car behind it. I'm like, you know that feeling, that adrenaline hot feeling that you get in your body? I had it all the way from my head to my toes. And I'm like, oh, my God. And then I see another car pull up.

And I'm like, I didn't know what to do. so I like Claudia, stay here in line. Here's the money. I'm going to go out. She started crying and I'm like, oh, God, I can't leave my kid there. Okay, we're going to lose the line. We're going to lose our place in line. Come on.

So I go outside and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not a bad person. I'm a really good person. I didn't do anything wrong. Like, this isn't me. This is like, I don't do anything. Like, there's cops like there. I'm like, are they going to arrest me? This is literally after I got a DUI a week ago.

So I'm in the car crying, calling my parents. my God, in a neglect case, don't kill me. Yeah. And my dad was like, it's fine, you'll be fine. And I mean, that was shit that I had to deal with. And that was stuff explaining to me, like, you just, you need to get on the right path. So everybody goes through downs and different things that happen that make them stronger. But I never did it again.

I mean, it put me on the right path. Thank God. Well, I was going to say, too, with the whole marriage thing that you were saying, I think that, like you were saying, I think a lot of people do have this mindset that. they want to stay in this relationship for the kids' sake, which I... So bad. Yeah, I was going to say I'd get it, but I really don't because I think that even though a divorce can be and is traumatic to kids, it makes them stronger.

And in my opinion, I think everything that a kid goes through, even the worst things, it makes them who they are. And some kids have it really rough, way more rough than others. And that's really unfortunate and it's sad. You know what I mean? It's very sad. I lost my dad at a young age. And if that didn't happen,

I might be, there's a huge chance I'd be a lot different than I am today. Oh, definitely. But I don't ever look back and say, I wish that didn't happen. Like, yes, it's horrible, but I know that I believe everything happens for a reason. Definitely does. So it's like if you are in a relationship or a marriage that isn't working and you're miserable, even if you have kids, you have to love yourself because if you can't love yourself enough to do the right thing for yourself and leave, how the fuck are you going to do the right thing

for your kids? You know what I mean? You can't give love to your kids and be the best version of yourself. You get so angry and you get so angry. and you start taking it out on them. Yep. And you start taking it out on other people. You're miserable.

You're unhappy. You're stressed. So how is that going to reflect on your relationship with their kids? Or even the thing is, too, is you can, you, even if you were to stay, there's the people that stay too. And then what? You start sleeping in different rooms than your spouse. And then your kids grow up seeing, oh, my mom and dad sleep in different rooms.

So it's like, it's, at the end of the day, people stay. But I feel like it also opens up a door for so much confusion for the kids, rather than if you just sit them down and try to be honest of like, look, look, we're. We love each other, but it's not going to hurt, but hey. It's not going the way it was. No, you know what? I think if they don't, if they don't do it, they're just going to repeat the same thing that they're doing. Or it's going to cause more damage, I think.

You know, it just. I think they or that, but I do see them repeating a lot of things. Like my kids, like, they're scared of marriage because they watched me go through what I went through. So choose right. And don't jump into something. And you got to be best friends first. And then, you know, eventually, I mean, I feel like I look at where I'm at right now, our little group that we have going on. I feel like everybody's got a very good relationship. I feel like everyone knows each other. Like you and Brandon have been together for a while, Julian Nicker together for a while. Everybody's really friends. And they do things together. Jesse and Claudia now are becoming that. I didn't have that. I did not become friends with the person. It was very. vicious. And you're probably like this too. I was always looking. First of all, I didn't trust

from the beginning. So right there, I should never have been with somebody. If you don't trust, you should not be in a relationship period. You have to trust yourself. And then when you start making those mistakes, you have to be able to forgive yourself afterwards. If you can't forgive yourself, you're not going to forgive anybody else. And that took a long time for me to forgive myself. very, very long time. And I've been working on it six, seven years. And I finally did. And then I met Dakota and realized like, hey, you know, I really love the person that she is. And you choose differently. Like I would have never chose somebody like her six years ago. I would have been like, no way. Too nice, to this, too, like no drama. We have no drama. I noticed that too.

When you're younger or just not, I don't want to say younger, but when you're less mature mentally when it comes to people and relationships, you look at those little things. Like, oh, they're not tall enough. Or, oh, I don't like this about them. But when you grow out of that and you develop as a person and you develop in your knowledge emotionally and within relationships, I think you start, you stop looking at the outward stuff. And you look at who they are as a person, how they make you feel, how they treat you. And I think that's one of the biggest things that I've learned. I mean, obviously, Brandon is extremely attractive. He is. But I remember just, I mean, and I knew him for a while. And I, and I knew him for a while. I always knew that.

But I mean, like I've said many times before in different episodes, seeing his mindset on things and how he was as a person and the fact that he was different than the guys I was going for, the guys I was going for, they were always, you know, I don't want to say jocks, but you know what I mean? They were always kind of more in the popular group and they were always out parting and doing stuff. And I feel like he wasn't like that. And he was always, I always saw him like working.

And he wasn't always hanging around people and doing stuff like that. And I remember the older I got the way that he would speak and as mature as he was. And just the way that he would handle himself and carry himself as a person. Yeah, he's always been like that. Yeah, it just was so I looked up to him. Like I really admired him as a person. And I think that that was a big thing for me that made me more attracted to him. It was like at that point, I didn't even care what he looked like.

I was like, I really just love who he is as a person. And he was the first person, I think that I learned to trust because I never had trust either. And I would get into these relationships, literally telling the guy. right off the bat. Oh, I don't trust you. I know you'll eventually cheat. And I'd say that to their face. Brandon's not that tight. No. And he was the first person that I think I learned to trust. And I, I, I, I, I, I just had this feeling. I was like I, I, he's older. He's more mentally mature. And he just, he's worried about himself. And I feel like if, I remember thinking to myself, if I ever landed him, like I feel like that I would know that it, it takes a lot. Like, I feel like Brandon, because Brandon wasn't

the type to just sleep around or just date random girls like I was doing with guys. I was like, oh, just whoever comes next, bring it my way. You know what I mean? So I knew that if him and I ended up working out, that that meant a lot. Because I feel like he chose, like you said, very wisely. And I was like, if he chooses me after everything he knows, then I, you know, it says a lot. I think it's great personally. I remember, you know, that whole thing coming.

Yeah, you thought it was a joke. Yeah, first, at first, because it was just the way you guys were pulling it off. But then when you were confiding in me and Claudia didn't know yet, it was like, I was like, oh my God, I'm the middle of all this drama right now. Well, I didn't even say anything to you yet. I think he said something to you first and then you kind of were like... He kept doing broken sentences to me. It was like he wouldn't finish his thoughts.

And I'm like, you can't leave me hanging here like this. He came to my room and was asking me for advice or something. And then, oh, wait a minute, I got to go. I'm like... Because I had pulled up. Yeah. And I didn't know that. But he took off and I'm like, a little Brett didn't even finish telling me like the story.

Like, hello, I'm so curious. But what's funny was remember. I just remember this. It was he told you that. And then I think the next day or two days later, we went roller skiing. And you're like, I was waiting for you to bring it up. And you're laughing. I know.

And you're like, um, Brandon said something really weird to me the other day. And I was like, yeah, I know. And you're like, is it true or is this a video? And I was like, no, it's not. But you were laughing so much that I didn't believe you. Yeah. And that's why I kept saying this is a joke. And it took me like four times to ask you to really understand it.

I think that's when you and I really started talking more to because you were who I would talk to. You know, like that's, I'd call you. And you were the person that, you know, when you get a new boyfriend and you're like, you have all these fun new things to tell, I feel like I'd call and tell you and be like, if you said this today or, you know, we did this. Oh, my God. It's so much fun going back and forth like that with you.

But you're just like, it's crazy because the age difference, but you're like level eye, eye to eye. We see eye to eye with that. Well, I definitely think you, even though you have way more experience and you're older, I think that you understand more. of like how I feel and what I'm thinking. And you're so not judgmental. Like, and I never got, I think what a lot of people can't understand when it comes to you

is I think you, you're very good at when you talk to people kind of just understanding them and making them feel very heard. And I think that when I talked to you, it was never like I was talking to my best friend's mom. Right. It was like I was talking to one of my friends and somebody that really just, you got me. And I tell you and it was like talking to a friend. Yeah. So which I like.

And I think that's how I treated the kids. Like I never, Kennedy said the other day, I treated them. She said, I never felt like you treated us like we were children. You treated us like we were like you're like an adult, just like you. And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of like the way I raised to them because I don't think that, what are you going to talk to a kid like a kid, like disrespectful? If you want to be respected, then you need to respect your kids. They'll respect you back.

It's these parents that are like screaming at their kids. I'm like, oh my God. And then the kids end up rebelling anyway. Oh my God. It's such weird parenting going on nowadays. especially nowadays. So it's, you know, it's so weird because like as I went through all of that, and there's so much more.

Yeah. So, so much more. So many more stories. You skimmed the water. I did. I did. Well, if I end up writing a book, then I won't skim it. But there's just so many things I probably like have in my subconscious mind that I like

have pushed down and forgot. But, you know, as time as as hopefully will I'll be able to get it all out. I don't know. You will. I think if you go like we were saying like step by step, you can. kind of dive into during this time in your life all of the you know then it goes down the list of everything that because I even remember stories that you've told me you know like of times that you you were struggling and you needed money and you did this kind of thing and that kind of thing

oh my god there's some serious crazy stories I think some the kids don't even know right oh yeah you know one that kid the kids don't even know because I remember I was confiding in you about the babysitting dad right and we're talking about that kind of stuff so it's it's things like that you you look back on you well if you don't look back you forget You know what I mean? It's like, wow, like I really had to go through that and I did certain things that maybe you wouldn't do today, but at a time you needed to do them. Right.

And no, and it wasn't a stripper. I was going to say nothing. I wasn't a stripper. And or prostitute or anything, nothing against them. It's just more so, right. And it wasn't anything like that. But it's just you, you really, I think when time goes by and, you know, you come out of a dark place, you forget about those little things that got you to where you are.

And all of those things, they're okay. You know what I mean? All of those things made you who you are. All of those things made you Jen the Body Painter and just who you are today. And I think that like we were saying over text yesterday, it's so crazy how many lives we go through as an individual. You know what I mean? Oh my God. Yes.

We develop into so many different types of people, you know, in the one life that we're living, which is just so crazy. I am very grateful with all of it. Seriously. Yeah. I mean, I do look back and think, oh, shit. How did I go through all of that? Right. But you got through it and it's like even if you struggled.

Literally, like I felt like my whole world was falling apart at that time, you know? And then and then you just, God, it just seems so big. And then you look at like the world and you see war and you see starvation and you see all this stuff going on. And then you're like, oh, you were so worried about your life. But because it's serious. Like you have to be. It's survival. So it's life is strange.

It's a strange thing. But I have to say like, you know, I've accomplished a lot of things. And I'm very grateful for like just just the book alone. How the book got here is a story. Yeah. That's a story. Every single thing is a story. Like you know.

So if people want the book, can they order it? It's on Etsy. Okay. I can give you the link. Okay. Yeah. Give me the link so I can put it below so people can get it if they want to. It's kind of like just sitting there.

Yeah. Well, maybe people will. Yeah. Some of my artworks on there too. I had made an Etsy store a long time ago. And yeah, it's available. It used to be on Amazon. It's not anymore.

Because I feel like people that, if there's anybody that's like an artist listening, I feel like that would be really cool. I should put it on sale on Etsy. Yeah. Take a little bit of money off so that they can get it. No, that would be cool. Yeah, it's a really neat story. And it's inspiring and motivating.

I've been told and I feel like it is. Yeah. And I feel like, and it's creative. And it makes a really good art piece just alone on a table or on a shelf. and a lot of those books have been stolen out of offices. Really? I've gotten about maybe like a dozen people writing me and saying, I need to buy another book.

I'm like, why? Somebody stole it. But it was like written to you. Yeah. So what are they going to do? Like how are they going to explain that it's like written to them? Yeah. You know, autographed.

And they're like, I don't know. Someone took it. I'm like, okay, don't leave it in your office anymore. Take it home. Right. But yeah, it's really cool to know. And also with the body painting, I think when I hit to get, I got off track with it. But like the main, one of the main things of body painting is that it makes people, like you said, self-aware.

So they're doing good things for themselves. They're going to the gym. They're eating better. They feel good. They're doing. I get a lot of people who are turning 50 that want to do this for themselves. I get a lot of pregnant or had before COVID. pregnant people and their husbands come along.

There's one that I did. I don't think it's in there. But I took the dad's hand and put it on the belly and then painted into the belly. Yeah. It's a dancer. And the dad's just holding your belly. So if you look really close, you can see the hand in it. But it's neat.

And it's just creating individual pieces of artwork that, you know, they can blow up and hang up in their rooms. And I've done so much, I've done a lot of breast cancer patients. Right. it just helps people. And so it's a business that, yeah, it's my art and I'm showing my art off and I'm creative, but it makes other people feel good too. And I think it opens another door for art as a whole because it shows that art doesn't just have to be on a piece of paper or, you know, a sculpture.

You see a lot of body painting. People send me pictures and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's really cool, where you see them doing like a bunch of people are painted into a flower and then they just move or they're starting and they just get into it. That's amazing, but it's not, it's not Jen. Might be a little biased. It's funny because you know that there's a body paint show. What was it called?

Do you remember what that was called? No. It's a body paint show. And they asked me to be on it several times. Skin wars. Skin wars. You didn't want to go on? No, because I not, first of all, I couldn't take the time away from my busy schedule.

Got it. Okay. And I know I didn't think they'd pay me much. And I couldn't leave the kids at the time in my life. And also, I am not a competitive person. and I don't like to judge people's artwork. Right. It's terrible.

I couldn't even be a judge on that. I'd be like, I like everybody's art. I don't know. I can't choose. I'd feel bad. I'm the kind of person that feels bad for a piece of paper on the floor because it's not like in the right place. I felt bad for the trash the other day because it was in the rain.

And they didn't pick it up yet. Dakota's like, you are weird. I'm like, it's called something where you feel bad for things. I don't think you're that. called? There's a name for... Yeah. No, it's not empathy. It's a really weird... No, it's a really weird word. So you're past that.

It's like a disorder. So when you care for things that are non-existent? Yeah, I don't have that. Stuffed animals, like carts, grocery carts that are in the middle of the parking lot. I would say to the kids. Oh, I feel so bad for that cart. I want to go put it away. My mom and I have it. Really? I don't know if my sister has it. I have to ask. I wonder if Claudia and Kent. I feel like Claudia and Canada.

kind of like... I think they make fun of me. Really? Mm-hmm. I feel like Claudia somewhat has, like, things... Maybe? She definitely cares more. She's definitely more...

She's definitely more... She's definitely more... She's definitely more... No, probably not. But I am not good with that. If anything, I've gotten worse. But I think also because we live in such a scary world that I'm so resistant to, you know, I just get nervous.

I don't even want to be... You feel bad for bugs? No. Yeah, I do. The only things that I really feel... I keep things very small and minimal. It's like the people that I love and care about and my cats. I was going to say you care about your cats.

Yeah. Like, for example, if I didn't have the cats in the house, I would not give a fuck about what if, God forbid, if the house went up in flames. Oh, right. That's not my concern. It's what's in the, it's the cats. I don't care about the, it's the people that I care about. You know.

But not a shopping cart, not a flower. No, I'm going to get, oh my God. I'm so bad at it. Yeah, I don't have that. I'm terrible. But it makes you a nice person. I guess it makes me silly. But it's okay.

At least you're nice. You're nicer than me in that aspect for sure. Definitely. I agree with that part. I think that's where you and I are different. You're more forgiving. Yeah. You're a lot nicer.

I'm just this. I struggle with that. But you know how I am. You might change in time. Yeah, maybe when I'm older, not right, not yet. I'm not there yet. I don't want to change yet with that.

I think it, I do that, I think I hold on to that aspect of myself because I think it also, it kind of makes, it's part of my personality. One day I'll be a little bit nicer, but not. You know what's funny?

Like the kids, like when I, when there's a bad driver, you know, I used to be aggressive before. When I taught the kids out of drive after Kennedy, now when I get behind a slow driver, I catch myself, I'm like, oh, go. And then I'm like, oh, that could be Kennedy. I have to get, I have to be patient. It could be a new driver.

It could be like. I think that's the older and more wise you get. You're just, I think you become, my mom's gotten nicer. Yeah, I was going to say that. I was going to say, look at your mom's probably how you're going to be. Not all older people, but even with my grandma, like, you can just tell. people, I think they let go. I think we just feel.

It's different. You just don't care anymore. You don't care the same. Yeah. You don't. I think you care more about like helping others and it's not all about yourself. I think when sometimes when you're young you can be more selfish and like, you know, it's all about. Yeah.

That's how I kind of think sometimes. I think I was always like that though. Yeah. I do. I think even as a kid. Yeah. I would feel bad for like my stuffed animals. Always felt bad for my stuffed animals.

That's probably toy stories fault. But toys away didn't come out then. They didn't have that. So I don't know where I got that from. Yeah, I have no idea. I need to look up the disorder. I would put life to things. Like I put life in adamant objects.

Like they have a heart and they're breathing. Interesting. It's weird. Okay. Yeah. There's no medicine for that. No. But hey, I mean, it's part of you.

It is. But no, I think your story. It's wild. It's wild, but it's also, like I said, I think the most important thing for people to know is that because even basically telling you how I viewed you so differently than what your story really was behind the scene. And I was in your life. So not obviously not during when the kids were younger.

But I think it's funny. I think a lot of people thought I had money even though I'm in a townhouse. If they knew where I lived, they wouldn't know that. Well, here's the thing too. And this is why people say don't judge a book by its cover. But you always looked, you know, very, you're beautiful, very well put together. So it's like nobody's going to look and be like, oh, she doesn't have. money people don't think that i think people don't correlate the two they it was money and it was or if

they didn't think i'd money they thought they could pay me to and give me money yeah you know be like a lot of try to sugar daddy type me yeah people type of people would try to get me and they like you know it was that all of my life i would get that so and then and then of course i go into body painting and so the comments and the client tell that would come to me and I'd have to like, oh my God, some of the stuff where I had to just be like, I got smart with it. You know, you started to just know, like to ask certain questions to not, because I would spend so much time on an email or a phone call and then, and I didn't realize like, oh, they just, they're not even going to spend money. They're not even going to hire me. They just want to ask me questions about this. And I was just

like, oh, this is like terrible. I've got to figure this out. So eventually I started getting harder with it. And then I would hear people say things. And I would just like kind of snap and say something back. And they'd be like, I didn't mean it that way. And I'm like, you did. But it's okay because I caught you and I made you feel dumb. Right.

You know, I don't like when people, especially if I'm at a corporate event and somebody's coming up to me and saying like dumb shit about body painted naked girls that were guys even. It's just like, no. But over the years, I think I've gotten a little bit less rigid at times. Well, I think you probably had to be too, because, you know, if you're doing all of these events and people, it gets annoying. It does get annoying. And, you know, it's a lot of events that have alcohol at them and I have to deal with all that stuff. And the guys just, I think that's probably what made me, like, really turned off over time. I mean, I'm not saying anything bad about guys.

I love guys But girls are definitely not like that And it's hard when you're used to getting in this business And you know, looking a certain way I mean, I shouldn't have to change the way I dress Because I don't want a guy to say something, you know, to me And then there were times where I wasn't even dressed bad And they would still say it at these events

Just because I'm the body, oh, you're the body painter And then they would start to ask me I can't even think of questions right now that would, they'd always be the same questions though, the same stupid questions. And I'd be like, sometimes I would just ignore it and just walk away and be done, you know. But it's funny because it was appreciated by everybody just in a different way. Everyone had their own little take on it. Some would get aroused.

Some would be like, wow with the artwork, which is the ones that I took to, you know. And other ones would look at it like an opportunity to like take you out. go out on a date. Yeah. It's crazy. It is crazy. And I think too, because I feel like a lot of people, there's so many talented people, whether it's art or singing or dancing, whatever it may be.

And there is such high competition because, you know, a lot of people are artistic and have their own talent. But I think that your story shows that you can, it's normal to struggle. And it's not, it's not anything to be ashamed of. And if anything, those struggles and getting through them is what is going to, like you said, make you come out stronger. And once you let go, and I think stop stressing so much about the struggles, even though it's really hard, easier said than done. Yeah, it is.

I think that's when you start to see things more clear. And then just when you're in the moment of it. Yeah, and it's tough. There's so many things. Even if it's not with a talent, there's so many things in life that can stress you out and you just struggle. I feel like everybody's stressed out right now. I feel like the whole world is. I really do.

You're always going to be stressed about something. Yeah, but I feel like it's different. Like I don't go to stores anymore. I order all my food. Yeah, I don't like going to stores either. I don't go shopping. I order on Amazon and different websites. I don't like to leave the house often.

I went to the store the other day. We went to the gym and then we went to the store right after. And I was with Dakota and I was like, I feel weird in here. And she's like, why? I was like, because it's a store and there's people. Right. And I feel so like. We got used to people not really looking at a store in COVID.

And then it's like you go into a store. And when somebody looks at you, I think it does give this. I don't know, at least I feel that way. Like it gives me an uncomfortable. It was very, I had this very anxious feeling because I felt like everybody was in a rush and I haven't felt this in a long time and I felt like everybody was just like not, the only nice person was the person who we were paying for. She took us for some reason and we started talking and like I felt bad because there's

people behind us. But I just felt like everybody was just like pushy and like, oh, it was just, I was like, I don't want to do this again anytime soon. Yeah, I'd rather just pay a little extra and order my food. Right. And that's, that's sad. It is sad. I literally told Claudia that the other day also.

It's really sad. I just, where did all of the, I feel like we're all going backwards and not forward. And it's bizarre. And we need more unity and we need like to, but everybody, we need more art. Well, now that COVID's over and everything's opening up, I'm starting to get calls again. Right. You know, and there's games now that I'm doing a football jersey actually. Awesome.

On a kid. Yeah. His dad has hired me to do this on his first, his kid's first football game. Yeah. So he won like a Ravens shot. And that's probably something he'll never forget. You know what I mean? No, he'll never forget this.

Right, never forget it. Especially because I'm filming it from my channel. So we're going to send it to him. That's awesome. But it'll be interesting, yeah. I mean, I'm just happy right now being home, doing my only fans, being with my I hate cats my girlfriend. Yep.

Wow has life changed. It really has. With two full sleeves of tattoos. Right. Here's my, oh, this one's not done yet, almost done, this is done.

Like, what was happened? I don't know what's happened. And it might change again in another 10 years. Probably. I'm going to keep getting older, though. So I don't know. I don't know.

You don't seem to age on the outside. I'm doing the best I can. Yep. They have some new stuff coming out. So I'm always, and I'm a licensed. You will be the first to try it. Yes, I will.

Well, not first. be second. Yeah. I'll see what the first is. You'll try it. I'll try it. I, especially if it's free.

Yeah. I'm not that much of a guinea pig. I've seen some major problems with that, so I won't do that. But there is some interesting procedures out there. So, you know, it's really cool. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to stay young. No, I just feel like some go really overboard.

Yeah. It's easy. I understand that. It is easy. Especially if you've had kids and your body's like fucked out. Yeah, but you're, I think that I was telling me. I worked out the whole time. No, you did.

Through all of the ups and downs. I still went to the gym. I mean, I was a teacher and a rubbing instructor for years, like 15 years. And I think, too, if there's things that you're insecure about and the only way to fix it is surgery, why not? Yeah. My stomach was never going down to, it grew and then it like shrunk and it grew and it's like a rubber band. You know the rubber bands that you just. put around something, you take it off and it just holds its hugeness.

Right. That's what my skin did. It was disgusting. Yeah. So I had to get it cut off. I didn't feel good. And honestly, that's probably what jump started, the body being because once I got my boobs done and my stomach taking care of after kids, I felt good again.

I felt sexy again. So I'm like, I'm just going to go ahead. I mean, I always had a decent body all the way up until kids, but they're worth it. But I feel like moms should have mommy makeovers automatically. Right. It should be paid for. Why not? From the father.

Because we go through a lot of shit. From the dad, yeah. From the dad. Or whoever got them pregnant. Uh-huh. Make sure you pay for my plastic surgery and makeovers afterwards because I need to look hotter than before I had kids. It should be in like the agreement of a marriage.

Because you know what? If guys had to go through what us girls go through being pregnant, I don't think they would make it. Probably not. They cry, they whine. They get sick and they cry and they whine. They're not used to pain. Definitely not.

You know, unless they're, of course, like in the military or they're going through some kind of like Navy SEAL training shit. They almost kill them or they do kill them. That's different. But I'm talking about the normal guy. Get pregnant. See what it feels like. Nine months of that.

Yeah. And then you got to get them out somehow. Yeah. So two Cs. sections and a regular vaginal birth for me. And that killed my body. Absolutely. So I mean, I still think I'm still proud. I can't believe it. You look amazing. Thank you. I remember saying, seeing an aerobic instructor, because to me, again, that was my mentor, all these girls, and they would have babies and they look so good. And I'm like, oh my God, I want to look like that. Like how?

They're like, you should teach it. You'll have to do it. You'll be forced to go. And I was forced to go all my life. And so, I mean, I was pregnant, big and pregnant and doing obliques, like lifting my leg and doing obliques because the, you know, the muscles go to the sides. You know that, right? Yeah. They open up the split. Because some people need to get surgery to get it back. To get them back.

Because sometimes you can put your fingers kind of through a freshly, if a baby's born, you can put your fingers through the mother's stomach and, like, touch down into the because the stomach hasn't, the abs haven't come back yet. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah, some of them need them back. Thank God. mine came back and because they were strong. And I remember them saying after the C-section,

they were like, you have some strong ab muscles. I'm like, that's gross. Yeah. Like they literally saw my muscles from underneath. That's crazy. Yeah. But I did it. And, you know, I just, whoops. Sorry. It hit my hand. I was like, I talk with my hand so much. I know. So do I. You don't have to. You can, no, you can use them. No, I'd be knocking this mic over. I'd be banging everything like that. Everything would be on floor. And usually I talk. And usually I talk. curl my hair. I should have given you.

I know it is hard. I can never get comfortable. I should have given you restraints on the chair to hold your arms down. I'm watching the originals right now and they restraint the witches a lot with these cups. Yeah. So it made me think of that. So it's a restrained witch over there. Yeah.

So it's really hard to sit here and get comfortable. I'm always moving. I'm like, I always think, gosh, people probably think I'm the antsiest motherfucker. But my hands underneath are like moving here. I know. I always am like picking things and touching. I need a, we need, I should give people. stress balls when they come on here. Oh yeah that's a good idea. To like de-stress. Yeah,

this is the longest I've not really like I mean I move my hair out of the way because it gets so hot sometimes and I'm still kind of having hot flush is not as bad. Yeah. Yeah. That's another thing menopause. Yay. So that'll be over soon. But I'm usually like twirling. I'll have an episode for you for every single little light thing that people go through. I have I literally feel like I haven't even touched on anything. And I did. But that's literally, like you said, I skimmed it. I have so much. It's a good introduction, though. It is. And I think it's good too because I think if people want to know more, get the book, you might be writing a book. And then you have your own channel that I feel like you have a lot of stuff on that that I've talked about. Yeah, like Doven to and things like that.

So I think that, you know, if people want to check out more, they look at your stuff personally. Because I think that you're, and you're still body painting, there's still stuff out there. You know what's funny when Brandon would do those game shows and we were able to do little snippets of our lives here and there. It's funny how like you could never explain it. No. In description and give that explanation. People would just take it for what it's worth and decide on their own and judge and figure out who you are. And meanwhile, they were all so wrong.

Well, that's why I like the podcast platform because I think it, I think when I first started it gave me a voice and people got to see me outside of just the video. And then now it's like I feel like I can give this platform to other people who have a, you know, give them a voice. And then in return, you know, make others feel more really, you know, they feel like they can relate and understand and feel like they're not alone. And I think that that's. I mean, I loved watching you and Claudia together. I really did. But to me, this is so interesting. Like so far, I've seen Kennedy.

I've seen Brandon. I'll watch mine. I'll watch the next one. Like I actually look forward to watching these because I feel like they're interesting, you know? and I'm very happy and proud of you. Thank you. I'm happy that you found something that you're excited about. Yeah.

When you told me about it, you know, I was still kind of overcoming a sickness. So I wasn't like, but I'm really excited for you. Thank you. Yeah. Because it's like very relatable stuff. And I feel like there's a lot of people that will enjoy that. Yeah. It's big stuff too.

I think it's, I think that the way that we started, it was starting out as something that was two best friends, you know, and it was amazing. And it was amazing because I couldn't imagine anything more. are perfect for her and I to do. And then we grew out of it, which makes sense. It happens. Nothing stays the same. Life changes.

And now it's like, the thing is if we didn't ever start it, I wouldn't be here now. Exactly. So, and it's just so amazing. See, and that's how I feel like. If I didn't start body painting, I truly don't think that we would be anywhere. No. I don't think anything would have happened. Because of Brandon explained it.

The body painting, then it leads to the Brandon working with us and Nick and Corey and Kennedy and then it leads to their own channels and then you get brought in and then Julie and Nick are brought in they have their own stuff like it just I feel like it's and the fact that they all loved YouTube helps yeah but I still feel like like Brandon said it he said a little tiny thing and I caught it that the body painting fueled it and it did even though we made no money it was the lighter fluid I think that it was like it's important and I I, you know, I always agree with that. But I think it's important because I think that that you really, I think you were the

foundation of it. And I think that it's important that you, that people recognize that. And it is the truth. And every, well, yes, every one of, you know, everybody in the group, but also every one of your kids has their own talent in their own unique way. You were, I mean, you're their mom and you were also the foundation of that talent. Yeah. And you know what's really, it's really hard because.

When you're going through all that, you're like, you want to make it so bad and you want to, there's so many people out there that are doing this and you want to make it so bad that you'll do anything, you'll walk on people, you'll backstab people, you'll, you cannot do that. You'll take in, you'll, you'll think, you'll like, because I remember feeling like this, like, oh, they didn't mention my name. Oh, they didn't give me credit. Oh, this person like said they were going to do this and they didn't do it. Like so much shit that I took from people that I wasn't getting.

and it wasn't getting me to the next step ahead. And I had to swallow, like, my words. I had to, like, just be, like, just be patient. Things will happen. There's a lot of other people that would not have been as patient and would have stepped more forward and would have made mistakes. You have to slow down, too. You can't go too fast.

And I feel like I took a lot, like you said, I took steps back. I stayed behind the camera a lot, and I wouldn't speak up. and it just kind of maybe if I did it would have moved a little faster I don't know or maybe if somebody would have given me more credit or spoken up for me I would have gotten further along faster I don't know but I wasn't that kind of person and I did everything myself pretty much you know and the models the models started speaking up for me when they started saying well Jen the body painter or Jen this or Jenna I'm like oh my god thank you so much because I wouldn't be the way they're like go up there go up I'm like no I don't want to go up they're like just

go up and I wouldn't do it because it's like and then so there's many many times people didn't know who I was you know and then I would have cards me they're like the models like give me your cards we're going to hand them out I'm like oh my god thank you like I wasn't a pushy pushy person so it's amazing right that I even made it this far like that because I figured the talent the art and the creativity would push it and it did and still like I still to this day I'm not like that right Like I could have been doing a lot more and it could have gone a lot faster. Yeah. But and then when Brandon came to me and said he wanted to do something, I was like, oh my God, thank you.

And it was amazing. And it was really cool working with them. So it was like everything changed. It was a whole buildup. Right. And I think that it all went through its own waves and. And it's going to keep doing us. It's going to keep changing.

Because now, look, I mean, when you first started, I mean, it was more like radio shows and not so much social media. And now it's social media and you can advertise it a lot and promote it. on social media and show off your work and you vlog it. You know what I mean? Now you're able to go and film when you're going to go paint somebody. And it's a whole new realm of things. Yeah, it's crazy because it has kind of taken a step back a little bit for me. But now you have new opportunities with it.

True. But like where is it going to go? Like my dreams were so big and they terrified me. And then I did it. And now here I am. And I don't have any other. Like this is the first time that I don't, I haven't felt like I've won't. like a big dream to happen because I feel like I've had a lot happen.

And one might spark. You know, I think that it's... I think the book that Kennedy's talking about is something that's really interesting. That could become something that you grow a passion for. She was like, Kennedy's a trip because she's like, you could do a show from your book. And I'm like, oh my God. But I could. Yeah, you could.

I mean, I could do anything, right. Yeah, if I really want to. You really have to want it. I was going to say, I think, too, you're in a more... You're in a time in your life where I think you're taking more downtime and you're kind of just relaxing. And I am. And from an outside perspective, I feel like growing up and seeing you, you are always on

the go. You're always working out. You are always on the go. You're always body painting doing something, going out, doing an event. You're always on the go. So now, to me, it makes sense to me that you're finally just, it looks like you're just finally chilling out and relaxing. Sometimes it makes me feel guilty.

Yeah, but I think that everything you do should be in your own time. And if this is where you are now, that's fine. And then the days that you want to get up and you feel more passionate and you want to have a goal set it, do it. do it and then I just think that now it's it's nice to be able to do things on your own time you know it's nice I'm spent a lot of I'm part cat now so yeah I've gotten a cat fight today I have the scars scratches to prove it she has those long nails yep we went at it with each other we're playing yeah but no I love my life now I do yeah it's amazing to see how much has changed and how

Or you've come. And even now, like, the girls still have stuff in their closets at the house. And we're slowly cleaning the closets out. And we're like, wow, look at this. And we just found Claudia's stethoscope. She was asking for it like a year ago. And we're like, we don't know where it is. And we just found them.

It's like still they're there. So it's like their presence is there. And I'm like, every once in a while, it like makes me sad. But thank God everybody's, you know, close by. And we all great. close enough. Yep. And we all see each other.

And thank God, yeah. Like, I love the fact that I love that. I love the fact like you guys like everybody who is our group is like basically like our family. Like I said, I'm so glad Julie's working with you because I said she's like family. Yep. Keep it in the family. The producer over there. Yep.

Yep. Because I was wondering because the last time, the two videos, I'm like, who is she talking to? Who do I keep looking over at? Who is she talking to? And then she's like, Julie said, is she cat sitting? Yeah, she asked if you were here to just like play with the cats in the background. But like she kind of dead because last time, honey. Yeah, I know.

at night and Honey and Blue are down here and Julie's like and Julie's kind of trying to grab the cats. Can you imagine if they knocked it? I know. No, it's fine though because I, you know, we like to keep things natural. So if we have a cat jump on set every now and then. I don't think they would. No? With her face rubbing.

Yeah. Oh, that would be so funny. That's what Julie's there for, you know. She monitors. She produces. That's awesome. We love you, Julie. We do.

And Julie will have our own episode, guys, for those of you asking. Julie, you should get body painted for one of your episodes We can just body paint your back Yeah Or just your boobs Julie's got some big boobs to body paint And a big butt

But they're sagging No No You know Mine are up Mine just won't even drop So it's totally fine You are

Mine are just so tight and up high That I have years to go My nipples Actually face upwards Julie so I wouldn't be Compliant. I know. Seriously.

Just combine the tits. That's funny. That's because your skin was so tight. Yep. It's fine. When I'm older, they'll be fine. But for now, I just got nipples that just look straight ahead. So.

Nothing wrong with that. No, it's okay. At least you have nipples. Yeah. At least they're perky and they're just there. I'd have to go. Oh my God. I have so many stories of that.

The nipple covers. Yeah. Paisies. Yeah. So that's another thing. Like if you ever want me back and to go dig into anything specific, we can do. dig into anything specific. We can do.

that because there's so much more. Like there's so many body paint stories. Yeah. Right. Each thing on its own has like a whole thing we could go into. So many. You can ask me different questions. Like I don't know.

It's just so many. Yeah. No, but seriously, thank you so much. Running into sprinkler systems and shit. Oh my God. I loved it. I know. I'm so,

it's like therapy. It's funny that because I was, I mean, I was telling you, I was thinking about who I can start with on here. And obviously it was like Kennedy, Brandon. And I was like thinking about you. And I said to hers would be great. because not only because of everything you've gone through, but then I feel like you do something that's so unique.

Yeah. And it's a form of art, but it's a unique form of art. I'm just, I really thank you for it because like it's been a while. And I'm not, I never really got a major opportunity other than the book to talk about the stuff that I go through and the things that I went through. And people won't know unless you talk about it. People don't know. You know, it's easy to judge a book by its cover and you have no idea what somebody experiences

or their struggles. And when I do my own videos, sometimes I, I think I'm just babbling and talking shit. And like I'm bored. Like I get bored of myself. So I don't know what people want to hear like. And it just feels good to know like to be able to talk about it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know you know a lot of it. But some of the stuff I said you might not have known and remembered. I know with Brandon, you knew everything he was saying. So it was weird. Yep. But there's a lot more to it. So, you know.

For sure. Yep. That's awesome though. But I love you. I love you too. And I want to thank you also for just always being someone I could talk to, but also somebody to look up to because even as a kid, like I said, you don't always know, you know, the details of things. So it was really cool to have. I mean, like I've always said, it's like it was like a second mom, but also like a best friend.

I'm so glad because Claudia always made me feel like she was like that I was bothering her friends. No. I don't think she didn't want to. You were always so like cool and easy to talk to. Yeah. Well, she knows I talk a lot. Claudia. But we both too.

I might hold somebody, you know, and make them my hostage and talk to them. But it's not. So she was worried about that. But no, like I said, if she wants to leave, she'll leave. Yeah. Believe me. And here we are. I feel like I probably walked away because I felt bad for her.

And I was like, oh, man, I wanted to still talk. I just walked away. Well, you were interesting. You know a lot of interesting things to say about the guys. And plus the fact that I related so well to it. And I felt like I wanted to help you so badly. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, it's frustrating listening because I know yet I was going through it myself, which is crazy. So, yeah. It's nice to support each other. It is. It's amazing. And yeah, I mean, honestly, like I was saying, I'm going to put the link of your book. Yeah, that would be awesome. In the bio, because I think that there's definitely people that will be interested.

And then also, yeah, I mean, in general, if anybody wants to know more about you, You have your YouTube, your Instagram, I mean, everything. And I feel like you're probably going to do, you do a good amount on your YouTube still, right? Here and there. Lately, we've just been, blah. I feel like you go through your phases. Yeah. We are filming this Sunday, so there'll be a video coming out.

I think the last one we did was the kittens. Yeah. They were too cute. They are. You know? But it's hard because YouTube goes up and down. Unless you're, like, really working at like Brandon, it's really hard. It is tough.

And they change the algorithms all the time. Yep. So whatever. If you guys, like, have questions. and want to know more stuff on this or on her life and struggles and everything. Just leave it in the comments because she will, she'll read them and make sure. It'll give her, I saw that bug coming to your face. It'll give me ideas too because if you ever come back on, we could go into details

of other things, you know. That would be really interesting as well.