We're All Insane - R*ped by My Parents Until I Was Mute

Starting point is 00:00:00 My name is Liliana, and today I'm going to be talking about my intrafamilial child torture and how my parents isolated, tortured, and sexually abused me until I was mute as a child, agoraphobic as a teenager, and a young adult. And I just want to talk about what occurred, how it affected me as I grew up, and my experience pursuing legal justice against my abuser. So first, I would like to say, to answer the question of why I'm here and why I'm doing this, first and foremost, I feel it's important because if I was a child and I had seen somebody talking about this kind of experience, it probably would have changed the trajectory of my life. So I think if there's somebody out there going through something similar, I could provide some kind of,

Starting point is 00:00:46 you know, my experience with it. And also too, I would like to kind of give advice on what it's like to uphold boundaries and stuff. Like after you go through something like this, advocating for yourself can be kind of difficult and it's something I personally struggled with and still struggle with. So I could also give advice on that and just generally like therapy, the world of psychology I'm really familiar with. Also, I personally, I've never really had issues talking about this stuff. And I've been fortunate enough that Ms. Dev here has been so kind as to share her bigger microphone with me, this bigger platform so I can reach more people. And of course, there are selfish reasons too. You know, I do wish that I could get on a microphone big enough to share this with the whole world.

Starting point is 00:01:27 and in a way I feel like a lot of especially the sexual abuse like my my mother wasn't aware of it so I feel like in a way maybe this will fill the hole of if somebody just knew what happened but you know so so there is a bit of selfishness over here I will admit because I do want to be transparent and there are going to be a lot of times in this story where I'm not the victim if you're looking for a perfect victim in this story it's not going to happen so and I also do just want to provide every trigger-waring possible Like any trigger warning you can think of, it's going to be mentioned in this story. So if you're not in a good headspace, I don't recommend listening to this story or maybe just skipping towards, you know, the end where I talk more about pursuing legal justice and stuff like that. So intrafamilial child torture, I know you've had other guests on here to talk about it, but in case anyone doesn't know what it is,

Starting point is 00:02:19 intrafamilial child torture or ICT is a mix of coercive control and severe violence against a child. So the difference between ICT and abuse is kind of like ICT changes the way that the brain develops, if that makes sense. So for example, if a mother continuously body shames her child, but the child is secure enough in themselves to not really let that bother them, that is abuse. But if that same scenario happens and the child grows up with eating disorders and body dysmorphia and stuff like that,

Starting point is 00:02:52 that would be ICT because it, changed the way that their brain works. It changed, you know, how they developed, how they, how they view the world and themselves. So that is the difference between the two. Another reason why I wanted to share my story is because I really want to iterate to people that, especially within sexual abuse, something I see a lot is people asking, you know, where is the mother? Especially if it's a male harming a child, everybody loves to ask, where's the mother, where's the mother? But it's been my experience and I've met several other CSA survivors in my life. I've read so many books, watched so many videos, heard so many other testimonies. And something I'm

Starting point is 00:03:32 finding pretty common is the mothers know. We can't leave it up to the mothers and that's why I want to share the signs because leaving it up to the mothers most of the time is not going to do anything. According to psychology today, 52% of mothers do not support their children after they come out about sexual abuse, and I think that's crazy. That's literally half. Like, yeah, that's crazy. 76% of victims that were sexually abused by a family member look for someone other than their mothers, and victims will disclose seven times faster on average if they feel maternally supported. So the child's first line of defense is always the mother, but the way that pedophiles get access to children like this is they somehow are able to find mothers who don't care.

Starting point is 00:04:18 They're willing to look the other way. And so, again, just we can't leave it up to mothers. I think it takes a village in protecting children. So if I could make more people aware of the signs to look for, that'd be great. To start, I kind of need to give context about my family and the dynamic of it. And it kind of goes back a couple generations. So my great-grandfather and my great-grandmother, my great-grandfather is actually still living.

Starting point is 00:04:43 He's in his 90s. He's still independent, you know. And their goal in life was to, have as many children as possible and spread the word of God. So they had this like one room cabin and they got to work. They had 10 kids, one of them being my grandmother, five boys, five girls. And I believe those are only their living children. They did have, you know, like a stillborn a miscarriage here or there, whatever. But yeah, so there was 10, one of them being my grandmother. And the way that they lived was, I'm not sure the different.

Starting point is 00:05:18 types of Christianity, but they're the ones that like, don't watch TV, don't believe in, like, birth control or condoms or they wear long skirts, they don't cut their hair. It's, it's, I liken it to almost being Amish, but they don't have the little head things or, you know, they still drive a car and stuff like that. My great-grandfather owns a church, and so they go to church every Sunday at his church, and that was a church that I grew up going to as well. My whole family does it. So they all get together every Sunday, if not even more than every Sunday. So this family is really close-knit. And as you'd imagine, 10 kids, like they go out, they have the same goals, have as many kids as possible, spread the word of God. So I've got millions of cousins,

Starting point is 00:06:04 whatever, is what it feels like. What I know about my grandmother is my grandmother was defiant. I'm not sure why, but when she was younger, like a teenager, she ran away and it's my understanding that she was sexually assaulted and had to come back home and she was pregnant with my mom. And she, again, she was a teenager. So she had my mom as a teenager. And my mom actually had me when she was a teenager. So I come from a line of teen moms, which is, you know, comes with a whole list of, you know, issues. But yeah, so my grandma became my grandma when she was like 30 and I think that's crazy. Okay, so the great-grandparents and their 10 kids and then your mom and everything, would you say all of them were pretty close, like had a good close relationship? I think so, yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's kind of like from my grandma down, they kind of fall off. I think my grandma has, like I said, she's always been kind of defiant.

Starting point is 00:07:10 Okay. Kind of a variable. So she watches TV, she smokes, she drinks, but she still goes to church. She still comes around the family. And they still, you know, it's not like they're like, oh, like you're a sinner. You can't come around. They're very like, you're free to make your own choices. You're still welcome with us.

Starting point is 00:07:24 They're, you know, in my opinion, good Christians, but it's also kind of weird because of stuff I'll bring up later. But, yeah. So as far as I know, they're all, everybody's pretty close. And it is, that was a privilege. Like growing up, I didn't realize that. But not a lot of families, like, get everybody together every Sunday. And my family's so big, we had to, like, rent out the fire hall for, like, for, like,

Starting point is 00:07:48 our Christmases and Thanksgivings and stuff. But, yeah, so I would definitely say they're all pretty close. Everybody knows everybody's business for the most part. And, yeah. But from my grandma down, it gets a little wonky. She had two other kids, so I've got two uncles as well. But she had my mom really, really young. And my mom, when she was in school, she was.

Starting point is 00:08:08 She was popular. She worked out. I've seen pictures of my mom. She was a big muscle girl. Like, she played tennis. She was really good at tennis. She has, like, newspaper clippings of the local newspaper talking about her tennis wins and stuff.

Starting point is 00:08:22 So I perceived my mom to be, like, she was the popular girl in high school. She was sporty. She had lots of friends. She went to parties. She, like, some of her friends grew up to be models and stuff like that. So I consider my mom to be, like, the popular girl back in high school. But after high school, my mom, my mom. mom went and joined the military, I think, for school purposes, because obviously, like, I come from

Starting point is 00:08:45 a line of almost like poverty, because my family, they always did things themselves, like, oh, I should have mentioned, like, my grandparents and stuff, the way that they were raised, they were homeschooled. So, you know, it's very isolated. Little one-room cabin, homeschooled, they grow their own food, they have a farm with horses and stuff like that. So they kind of, everybody kept to themselves, everybody took care of each other and stuff like that, but they also did things in the community through their church and stuff. But for the most part, it was like family unit only. So my mom joined the Air Force for school purposes to go to school. And while she was there, she met my biological father. And according to my mom, this is something that she said with her own voice

Starting point is 00:09:31 to my face. She wanted an exotic baby. So I don't know if she specifically sought out a man of color or if she just got the idea after meeting my dad. But my dad is Filipino. And three months after they met each other, they got married, crazy. And they had me. They were both, like I said, teenagers, like freshly 18. I think maybe they just thought that's what they're supposed to do and get together, start a family. So apparently they like planned and tried and eventually had me. So, and there's, there's Alex. of abuse on both sides. According to both of them, everything was good, and then I was born, and things just hit the fan. I was a baby at that time, so I can't really say what happened.

Starting point is 00:10:18 I am inclined to believe my father, just because I've lived with my mom, I know what she's like, so I do believe that she would abuse him, but I haven't spent enough time around my biological father to know if the stuff she said was true as well, but there are allegations of abuse on both sides. So they had me and they were kind of like on again, off again. Eventually they had my sister, which I'll call her T. And she's two years younger than me, so we're two years apart. And she wasn't planned, but my mom found out she was pregnant and they were, like I said, on again, off again. Okay. If you've ever tried losing weight, you know how frustrating and difficult it can be to stick to something that actually works, let alone to find something that actually works.

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Starting point is 00:12:31 slash insane. Based on advertised cash price for 30 days apply medication only. Membership required, be not included and billed separately. Weight lost by hers is not available in all 50 states. Wagovi is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS. To get started and learn more, including important safety information. Willcovy, clinical study information and restrictions. Visit for hers.com. Were they still in the Air Force, both of them at this time after they had you? I was born on an Air Force base, actually. So as far as I know, yeah, maybe I think after I was born, she got time off to stay and take care of me, I guess. Yeah. I'm not sure, actually. I don't think she finished. I don't know if there's like certain training you have to do. I don't think she ever actually

Starting point is 00:13:08 like made it to the stuff she wanted to do, I guess. And then my dad, I'm not sure just because I don't really know him that well. They were on and get off again and my mom ends up pregnant with tea and they decide they want to break up. And my dad wanted according to him, because like I said, I was a baby, I don't know, but this is just what I've been told. He wanted custody of me and my mom threatened to Carrie, T, if he took me. And so he just backed off. And yeah, so she, she took me, she took tea and moved to, I'm not sure where they were living together, but for most of my life, I've lived in Indiana. So we were living in Indiana. And this is when I start, you know, I can start sharing my own personal experience, because it was, it was during this time that I had my first

Starting point is 00:13:57 memory. And my very first memory is we were in this house, this one-story house, it had two bedrooms. And my mom, like, my mom can pick them. Let me tell you. Like, she loves an abusive man. She loves a racist man. She loves the worst of the worst, truly. And my very first memory is her putting me in the closet. And the closet was like, kind of like blinds like you have on the windows, but they were made of wood. So you couldn't like, you know, open them a peek. But I I could peek through the slits. And she sat me down on the floor of this closet and put tea in my arms. She was still an infant.

Starting point is 00:14:35 So I'm sitting cross-legged in the closet with tea in my arms because her boyfriend was coming home and, like, beating the shit out of him all the time. And I remember just, like, peeking through the slits of the door. And it was all dark. She had all the lights off and stuff like that, too. So that's my very first memory. Any man she brought home, I called him my dad because I just didn't know. like one thing about my mom, she'll sleep with anything with a pulse. I'm not trying to be mean.

Starting point is 00:15:01 I'm just telling the truth. But it got to the point where, and it wasn't just me, it was both of my siblings because I go on to have another sibling later. But she would like bring somebody around. We would call them dad because it's just like, that's we like, we're used to it. But yeah, so I would go around telling people, you know, daddy's, you know, dragging my mommy around by her hair and stuff like that and just like nobody was ever doing anything. But yeah, so my mom can pick them. my next memory is being in a pool so when I was a baby or like a toddler I apparently really loved like swimming quote unquote swimming which is just my mom holding me in the water and stuff and and I loved it so you know being in the bath she'd run me a deep baths take me to the pool and and you know let me

Starting point is 00:15:45 swim around there and this this memory that I have I'm about two years old she said because I did tell her I remembered this and she was like you were probably like not even two when that happened but I remember I was sitting on one of those floaty like a mattress lounge thing sitting there and my mom was in front of me and I'm leaning forward and I'm splashing around in the water and she's like I need to go inside real quick she has her her fuck-ass boyfriend like sorry I cuss like a sailor I'm so sorry I'm gonna try to keep it minimal but she's like I need to go inside she she tells her boyfriend that you know keep an eye on her I'll be right back so she leaves she leaves me boyfriend's standing there. I'm leaning forward to splash in the water and I fall in. And I remember

Starting point is 00:16:30 just sinking straight to the bottom and looking at the walls of the pool and just like, I don't know, just like instinctively babies don't like, I guess they hold their breath automatically, but I do remember like just sinking to the bottom and looking at his legs in the water and he was just standing there not doing anything. He didn't do anything. He just left me. And then I lost consciousness. The next memorand I have is waking up on the couch all along. And I brought this up to my mom. Like, I would think I was in my 20s. Like in my 20s. This was pretty recently. And she knew that he did that. And she also knew that it was because of my skin color that he did that. This white man, just like he hated me. Like she told me that he would always say I was dirty, that I would make, I would make people sick if they touched me and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:17:22 like, I don't know how you can be with somebody who talks about your two-year-old like that. Like, hello? But anyway, so she, I received no medical care, and which is odd because I've worked in child care for a few years now. I know quite a lot about children, their brains, and how they develop. And even if I was fully conscious awake and talking, when she pulled me out of the pool, drowning can still happen even hours later. So you need to take the child to the hospital regardless of.

Starting point is 00:17:52 list. But the fact that I'm unconscious and you fish me out and just leave me on the couch, hello? Is anyone home? What's going on? So, but yeah, she stayed with this man. And I don't know if it's the same man or if it was a different racist man. I'm inclined to believe it's the same man because just the way that he spoke about me. But she, she stayed with him and I, they had another child and that would be my sibling, we'll call her M. And we're all two years apart. So she's four years younger than me, two years younger than tea. And she had two white parents, obviously. And when she was born, my mom called her father to say, hey, I just had your kid.

Starting point is 00:18:32 And the first thing he asked was, what color is it? He wouldn't let me play with her because I would make her sick and dirty. Like, again, it's just, I don't know how you can be with somebody who talks about your children like that. But she had no issue doing it. And I think that really goes to show just how little respect she had for me as a human being. Also too, something I found really funny. Like, to say that you want an exotic baby is really odd, but she loved to dress me up in like racist costumes. For the viewers, I'm showing her pictures. My mom dressed me up as, as a Native American for multiple Halloweens. And also, too,

Starting point is 00:19:13 apparently, like when people asked if I was Hispanic, she and my grandma both would get really, really offended. Stuff starts really picking up. We moved to Columbus, Indiana. We were previously living in North Vernon, Indiana, but we moved to Columbus, Indiana, and I'm about four years old. While we were here, she met somebody that she was working with, and I'm not sure how long they knew each other before they got married, but given what happened with my dad, I'm sure it wasn't that long. And this man was very quickly, just a permanent part of my life. His name was Austin Ellis Jr., and I will share his name because he's currently sitting in jail. so what's he going to do? The first memory I have of them is their wedding, specifically the reception

Starting point is 00:19:53 after, and then he was just my dad. So growing up, I perceived this man to be my father, even though I always felt some kind of disconnect. Like I was like, we don't look, like I don't look like my parents, you know? So to me, I was like, this is my dad. And that's just the belief that I had growing up. So when you guys moved, was she already broken up with the other guy? Yeah, must have been, I guess, because, yeah, I'm not really sure what happened there, why they broke up, but. But he did not move with you guys. Correct. Okay.

Starting point is 00:20:26 So this man marries my mom, and then he becomes my dad. He's in the house all the time, and he's just my dad. And that's fine. But very quickly, my life kind of went into the toilet because this man and my mom really bonded over how much they enjoyed terrorizing their children. And by that, I mean, like, they found it really fun to scare us, make us cry, just all kinds of weird shit. So I'll give some examples. Probably the first bad thing I remember them doing to me was when, so I was first, first child, first granddaughter, first great-granddaughter.

Starting point is 00:21:06 Like, I was, you know, very much the baby of the family. Everybody was very gentle with me. And since birth, I've always been a sensitive child. I still am sensitive. It's very easy to make me cry. It's very easy to hurt my feelings. It's easy to scare me. It doesn't take a lot. And my parents definitely enjoyed abusing that. So I was used to everybody being gentle with me and this man who is just overly rough with me came into my life. So there was a day where he was like holding me and swinging me around the way that you do with kids. And everything was fine, except he then flipped me so that I was upside down. I didn't like that. Nobody had ever done that to me. Mind you, I'm four years old. Like, I'm scared. So I'm crying, and he and my mom find it so hilarious that I'm scared. So then he starts swinging me, like, closer to furniture so that my head gets closer to the furniture, closer to the floor, like bobbing me on the floor and stuff. And it's so funny that my mom gets, you know, those cameras back in the day

Starting point is 00:22:09 where you had to wind up the thing and make that noise and it has the film. You got to take it to the store and get it developed. those was taking pictures of it. And she still has them, like in a photo album, she looks back on them like, it's so funny, my horrible crying grimace that I have on my face. And it's a fun memory for them. And what I remember is being terrified and you guys laughing. All I can hear in my ears is laughter. It was traumatizing. Like, I get, like, I wasn't hurt, but at the same time, it's not hard to see why a child would be scared of that. Another thing that they would do is they would tell me lies to scare me. One example was there was a day again, four years old. Can't stress that enough. They pulled me into the dining room and they gave me this slice of chocolate cake and they

Starting point is 00:22:56 sat down at the table with me. And I was four years old again. So I didn't notice anything wrong. But now that I look back, it's like, it's kind of weird because they usually, like the kids had to sit at the table and eat, but they would eat their food watching TV. So the fact that they sat down at the table, like, they were up to something, you know. But they, they give me this plate of chocolate cake. And it's like, I don't know if you've seen the movie, Matilda, that chocolate cake is scrumptious, right? And I sit there and I eat the whole thing. And I'm like, wow, that was so good. They're like, yeah, did you like that? Was that good? I was like, yeah. They were like, yeah, you actually just ate an entire plate of shit. We just gave you a plate of shit and you just ate all of it and said it was good.

Starting point is 00:23:38 And I was like, what? Like, I was horrified. I started crying because I was like, what are you talking about? like they were like yeah you ate all of it you had a big smile on your face while you ate it you love to e-s-shit and stuff like that and i was just like i was just crying and crying and and they were like no why are you crying you said you liked it and stuff like that it was just really weird like i i felt sick to my stomach and i was too little to know i could make myself throw up but if i was older i would have made myself throw up i felt sick to my stomach like because i believed them like why would i hello obviously it's like it was just a joke but again. A four-year-old doesn't understand that, especially when no time previously did you guys make jokes like that. She's not going to understand. So I was just crying and they would just laugh and

Starting point is 00:24:25 laugh and laugh and whatever. So that was just the kind of stuff they put me through. You know, I never knew what kind of stuff they were going to do to me. And the fact that they always laughed at me for crying made me feel like something was wrong with me for crying. So I'm four years old and already feeling like something's wrong with me. Do you feel like there was ever a point that you had a close connection with your mother? Do you ever feel like she treated you like her little girl? I think I believed that she loved me. Now that I'm older and I look back,

Starting point is 00:25:00 it's very clear that she was never somebody who cared about me. But I remember up until I was literally like 19 years old, I thought she loves me and she's doing what mother should and I'm the problem for, for, I don't know, like I deserved all of this stuff. She wouldn't do this to me if I was, I don't know, quieter, smarter, something. So I just always internalized it. I felt like we were close because she would tell me she loved me and that's about it. But now that I'm older, I can't think back to a time where she was ever nice to me,

Starting point is 00:25:32 let alone close, you know, so definitely not. Oh, I should probably mention that my parents never supervised us. Like, I've learned probably just in like the last year that parents are supposed to play with their kids. My parents never played with me probably not even like once. And definitely like not even supervising us. So a lot of times we would get into things that we weren't supposed to and then get in trouble. But it's like where, why weren't you watching us? Hello?

Starting point is 00:26:02 So I'm a toddler. I'm unsupervised. I see some scissors on the counter. I do what every toddler does when they find scissors on the counter. I cut my hair. I leave a trail of hair everywhere. I think I'm, you know, cute as heck. I go to my sister's crib where she's sleeping.

Starting point is 00:26:18 I'm reaching through the bars, cutting her hair. Obviously, my parents found out, and my punishment for this was really, really bizarre. So first, they had to take me to get my hair fixed, obviously, and I got this ugly, like, little bob. I looked like Dora, and I don't think there's anything wrong with looking like Dora, but my family definitely were like, oh my dad, you look like Dora, how funny is that? It's like, I could tell they were trying to hurt my feelings,

Starting point is 00:26:43 so it would hurt my feelings, basically. But I don't think there's anything wrong with looking like Dora. If somebody told me I look like Dora today, I'd be like, okay. I'm like, yeah, so I had to go get my hair fixed. And my punishment for this, instead of sitting me down and telling me this is dangerous or, you know, taking away a toy, taking away my TV, something. my punishment for this was my mom called up my like my cousins and stuff there was a there was a house that

Starting point is 00:27:10 was like a block away that I would go to when my parents went to work and she would like watch us essentially she she ran a daycare out of her house basically and I said that we were cousins I don't actually know if we were blood related but we just grew up like that's my cousin you know whatever but it would be me her and then her mom ran the daycare and then she had some siblings but they were like adults already and then there would be like other kids, you know, from other families at this daycare. But my mom called up my cousins at this house and told them the next time you see Liliana, tell her that she's ugly. Just tell her that she's ugly because she cut her hair and we don't want her to cut her hair again. So, and again, unbeknownst to four-year-old me, I'm walking

Starting point is 00:27:54 around. My mom and my dad are both telling me how ugly I am and that, oh, you're not my girl. anymore because you're ugly and stuff like that. Like straight, like straight telling me to my face, I don't love you anymore because you're ugly. Four years old, mind you. Like, got you. So I go to my cousin's house one day and I go in and everybody's like, oh my gosh, ew, oh my gosh, ew, you're so ugly now, Lillianna. Like, you know, they wouldn't even hug me. No, I don't want to hug you.

Starting point is 00:28:23 You're too ugly now and stuff like that. And it had been going on for like days at this point. And I was just heartbroken. And I just like collapsed like in the living room floor and was just sobbing and sobbing. I'm sorry I'm ugly. I'm sorry. I'm ugly. Like, and I didn't even know that my mom told everybody to do that.

Starting point is 00:28:44 I just thought, you know, like, how would I know? So I just grew up believing like I'm not worthy of love if I'm ugly. So I didn't even know until, again, until my adulthood because one of my cousins was like talking about. And she was like, yeah, after you broke down like that, like I just felt so horrible. It's like, yeah, you should. Like, that's fucked up. That's fucked up to do to anybody, but especially a developing child. Like, hello?

Starting point is 00:29:10 According to Mensenet, four-year-olds regularly mix up imagination and reality, and their memory only works at about half of that of adults. So the fact that when you punish a child over a long period of time for something, when they're this age, they're not going to understand what they're being punished for. where the punishment at that age should be in that moment or punish punishment. I don't even want to say punishment. I don't think kids should be punished, hello, corrected. It should be corrected in the moment.

Starting point is 00:29:41 But when you do something like this, and especially over days, that is detrimental to the child's mental state. They are not going to understand at that age. They're just not. And so, yeah, I definitely internalize that belief. If I'm ugly, then nobody loves me. And also too, being unsupervised, there was this incident where I think we were home alone. A four-year-old, a two-year-old, and a newborn left home alone.

Starting point is 00:30:10 And it was the middle of the night. I remember it was dark as heck. And my sister and I were in the kitchen getting into stuff, you know, as toddlers do when you leave them unsupervised. And we were getting into stuff, you know, like dumping flour on the floor, making a mess. and my parents came home from wherever they were and saw the big mess. And this was a big turning point. They had decided they had never seen kids do this. Like this was just unacceptable and this was like beyond them.

Starting point is 00:30:41 They've never even heard of kids doing this or something. And so my stepfather, he talked to my mom and said, I think we should implement physical punishments. I think if we started beating your kids, they would not do this stuff. And my mom was like, hold on, you might be cooking. Like, bro, whatever. So that was definitely a turning point was us doing normal toddler things. It's crazy to me.

Starting point is 00:31:07 I also started to develop a reputation at home for being a liar simply because I was misunderstood. The first incident that I can think of this happening was I was in kindergarten. Oh, actually, about kindergarten. I started kindergarten at four years old. I think my parents put me in kindergarten way too early. they told me that it was because I was smart, but now that I'm older, I think they just wanted me, you know, out of the house sooner. Because when I think about my time in kindergarten, I was not sentient. Like, I remember other kids doing letters in writing and I was still scribbling.

Starting point is 00:31:43 I could not understand. And the reason I got a reputation as a liar was there was this day where I was playing in the gym and I bumped into this other kid. His shoulder hit me like right in the nose and my nose just blood everywhere, all the way. over the floor. So I had to go to the nurse and I'm sitting there. She's talking about me not being sentient. She said when the big hand on the clock is on the four, then you can go back to your classroom. And I sat there for I don't even know how long and she came back and she was like, you were supposed to go when the hand is on the four. I don't know what a four is. Like, so yeah, it was just really difficult. But everybody kept asking me who was the boy that hit me in the

Starting point is 00:32:21 knows like that. And in my four-year-old brain, I only knew one kid's name, and in my brain, everybody had that name. So I was like, it was this kid. I said, I said this kid's name. It was this other girl. And she and I, I think, were friends, which is why I even knew her name. But I was like, oh, it was just this girl. And obviously not true. And I think the teacher told my parents, and then my parents were like, oh, my gosh, you're such a liar, you're such a liar. So halfway through my kindergarten year, we actually moved from Indiana to California way across the country because my stepdad was actually in the Navy. He and my mom met at a job, but I guess like he was already in the military or something because he was called out to California to be on the coastline so he can go get deployed when they needed him. And from this point, my mom decided to be a stay at home mom.

Starting point is 00:33:12 So from this point forward until I say otherwise, assume that my mom is always home. We moved to San Diego, California. I turned five years old, and I finished up my kindergarten year. I remember once I became aware and started, you know, actually doing my schoolwork, I took off. Like, it was very instant. I loved learning. I loved doing a good job. I loved reading and writing and coming home and showing off my, you know, my skills, my new skills that I'm learning and stuff. But I think because we were so far away from everyone, because my entire family is based in Indiana, like I said, everybody's all together every Sunday, go to church every Sunday, and all of that, everybody hangs out together. So everybody lives in the same areas, except for like a few.

Starting point is 00:33:58 There's some that, you know, do missionary stuff in other states or whatever. But for the most part, my entire family is in Indiana. And I think because we were so far away, the abuse really just like amped up to, like just literal torture, I think. So it was in California that they started making, well, my stepfather started making us stand in the corner, which is kind of a normal punishment, I guess, normal as normal as that can't be. But the issue with how he did it was, it would be literally hours. Hours, I'm standing against the wall. And it could be over anything. It could be just because he didn't like the way you looked at him.

Starting point is 00:34:42 I don't know. Literally anything. I cannot stress it enough. And you would be there for hours. And he would sit, like he had this chair that would sit and he would just sit there and watch TV or play video games. And the corner I would stand in was like right there. So he could just sit there all day and keep an eye on me. And I'm not allowed to move, step, look, nothing.

Starting point is 00:35:01 I have to hold perfectly still. Not allowed to talk. Not allowed to cry. Not allowed anything. And I'm just supposed to stand there for hours. and sometimes I would even fall asleep in the corner and I would kind of like stumble like you know fall asleep stumble catch myself and he would come over and scream in my face or hit me and add more add more time as if I was ever coming out of that corner anyway and I remember crying to my mom about it like I hate

Starting point is 00:35:28 that he puts me in the corner until I fall asleep and and whatever and so she instead of talking to her husband about it. She started teaching me ways to stand against the wall so that I could sleep without him coming over to hit me. She told me to get a pillow and like put it up and then kind of lean. So I tried that one day, put the pillow up and leaned. And he came over, snatched the pillow away, hit me a bunch. He was essentially like, I don't know why he thought that was something you can do. And whatever. It was just, it was just a lot. So with physical abuse, there were both spontaneous beatings and ritualistic beatings. And I say beatings because that's what they were. Language is important. So spanking is typically a swat on the behind. I think it's more so to embarrass a child

Starting point is 00:36:16 than it is to hurt them. You know, maybe a little sting. Do I think spanking is okay? No. But that's what spanking is. A beating is excessive force. It could be on any area of the body, even the behind. And it can be done with a closed fist. It can be done with an open hand. It can be done with an object, but a beating is a beating. And when I say spontaneous, what I mean is he just comes over and starts hitting us with usually his hands, but sometimes he would grab a bell, a cord, of whatever, whatever was nearby. But a ritualistic beating, when I say that, what I'm referring to is there was a, like, it's planned, it's talked about, and there's a routine to it. So the Ritualistic beatings, how they happened in my house was, or not just me, my siblings as well,

Starting point is 00:37:04 had to strip our clothes, like our pants and our underwear off, bend over the arm of the couch, and we had to place our arms behind our back like this, and he would take a belt and just go to town. Like, just go to town. A lot of times, like, he would grab our hands behind our back and hold us down so that we couldn't move, stuff like that. Sometimes he would even just stroke our butt before he did it. And my mom would be standing in the doorway every time, just kind of overseeing. And a lot of times, like, he would be giving us our lashings and she would be in the doorway and say, that's enough. And he would keep going. And she would have to go, that's enough. Honey, that's enough. Like, hello? Like, he's beating your toddlers. Hello? Like, do something. But,

Starting point is 00:37:52 no, she stood there and watched him do it every single time and didn't, whatever. And the first time he left bruises on one of us was tea. And tea was only three years old when she got bruises on her. And my mom confronted him about this and said, you're not like, she's three years old. That is, that is excessive force. You shouldn't be doing that to a three year old. And he stood by it at no point did he ever apologize. At no point did he feel bad. Instead, he just said she deserved it. She deserved it. She should have listened to me. And instead of standing on this boundary, my mom was just kind of like, well, I did all I can do. And continue. on as if whatever. Yeah, so there was the standing in the corner for extremely long periods of time.

Starting point is 00:38:35 There was, there was beatings going on for every little thing. And it was kind of like every day was the same. I would go to school and come home, stand in the corner until dinner time, take a shower, go to bed, rinse and repeat every single day. Yeah, I just, I just never got to do anything. Socially, like you're going to see it all throughout my story. I'm never allowed, like, outside. Like, like, hello? Of course I've become agoraphobic. because you don't let your child do anything outside the home, but whatever. So in addition to the physical punishments and stuff like that, I also noticed that my stepdad would stalk me at school,

Starting point is 00:39:09 which is very odd. I don't know if I've heard anybody else with a story like mine kind of say that, but he would stalk me at school because the school I went to, and I feel like a lot of schools in California are like this, where the weather is always nice, so a lot of the school campus is like outdoors. So the classrooms are classrooms, but you open the door to the classroom and it's like you're outside. You know, there's outdoor cafeteria, everything's outside because the weather's always nice.

Starting point is 00:39:37 So it was very easy for him to just be like, you know, this is my kid, this is where she's at, and he can get on the school grounds, and then he could just stand there and watch me, whatever I was doing. And it was very weird, like I would be, you know, standing at an assembly or something and just kind of looking around and then I'd see him there, just standing and staring at me. and just again, standing, staring, no facial expression, no nothing, just staring right at me. And I was always just like, well, that's kind of weird, but I didn't think anything of it because I'm a child. Why would I? I just thought maybe he's here to drop something off at the school or something. I don't know. But it did happen multiple times. And he also would, like, he would beat me based on who I interacted with, who he saw me interact with at school. So there was this time.

Starting point is 00:40:24 I was in like second grade. And we had the classroom door open to kind of let a breeze in. And there, this little boy in my class came over to me. And he was like, come here, I want to show you something. And so he grabs me by the hand and leads me over to the door. And we're standing like right in the doorway. And there's a bug on the ground. So he's showing me this little bug.

Starting point is 00:40:44 And I'm like, wow, a bug. And I look up, I see my stepdad standing there and staring at me. And it kind of like shocked me. I was just like surprised. I didn't expect to look up and see him, but the school day was almost out, so I thought maybe he's just here a little bit early to pick me up, whatever. I go back in the classroom, didn't think anything of it, go home. We get out of the car and we're in the garage.

Starting point is 00:41:03 We're not even in the house yet. And he shoves me down onto, he had this like man cave area in the garage. And he had like couches in there. And he was really big into music. So he had like guitars, his amps, all of his stuff, his man cave. Like all of his stuff is in there. And he shoved me down onto this couch. face down and just kind of like held my back down and just started beating me. And I was screaming at

Starting point is 00:41:28 him. What did I do? What did I do? And he was like, you know you're not supposed to be talking to boys. I saw you holding hands with that boy and stuff like that. And I remember I had, I was chewing gum at the time. Like it surprised me so much. I swallowed my gum. And I was like looking for my gum. Where did my gum go? And honestly, if I had choked on it, he probably would have just continued. Like, but yeah, that was, that was a big rule for him. You're not supposed to talk to boys. But that, that, that's all he said about it. Don't talk to boys. I can't not talk to boys. There's boys in my class at school. I have to talk to boys. So you're bound to see me talk to a boy every now and then, especially when you're stalking me like that. But yeah, so that would happen pretty regularly.

Starting point is 00:42:04 Mind you, like I said, my mom's always home. Where is my mom? When I think about my time in California, my stay-at-home mother was never around. I think she was either out. I don't know what she was doing, but she was either out or in the bedroom. Because one thing about my mom, like she loved to read books. She reads a lot of books. She has her own library in the house. And I also love to read. I got it from her. So she was always reading. But the thing about my mom is, you can't talk to her when she's reading. She can't hear you. Like, she can't. So even if she is in the room, a lot of times, you still can't reach her. She still doesn't understand. Like, she can't see what's going on because she's lost in her stupid book. He also started doing this thing where both of my parents are really heavy smokers. I've never seen

Starting point is 00:42:48 my parents without a cigarette in their hand. And he would sit in his big chair, like legs spread, and I would be standing right here. And he would give me these long lectures about anything. But usually it was stuff like, you can't tell anybody what we do at home. You can't tell anybody anything about what happens at home, okay? And I kind of perceived it to be more of like a privacy and safety thing. So, and also I'm five. Like, I don't understand what he's trying to say. But he's sitting there and lecturing me on whatever, long, boring lectures. And the whole time, he's puffing his smoke right in my face. And if I coughed, he would hit me. If I stifled a cough, he would hit me. I had to learn how to hold back my coughs, how to ignore my own body to avoid getting hit.

Starting point is 00:43:37 It's just ridiculous. So that was something that happened. And also, too, when he gave me a lecture, or if he was talking in general, even if we were just at the dining table and he was speaking, if somebody, if me or my siblings, I can't even say somebody because the rules didn't apply for my mom. But if one of us yawned while he was talking, you would get hit because he was like, oh, I'm just so boring to you. I'm just so boring to you that you're yawning. Like, he always felt like we were doing it on purpose as to like mock him or something. It's like, no, I'm five. I'm tired. Like, hello? It was just, it was just really odd. And again, where is my mom? She's just standing by and letting it happen. Another thing about my stepdad is he's pretty much every horrible thing you

Starting point is 00:44:20 could think of, racist, homophobic, transphobic, every phobia you can think of. And he's also just generally antisocial, hates other people, wants to keep to himself. But the worst thing about him, like, in my opinion, he loved to abuse animals, especially cats. Like cats were, like, and growing up, I didn't realize that like animals had feelings too just because of the way I saw him treat animals. Like he went hunting and hunting is one thing, but he was horrible. Like if a neighborhood cat wandered onto our patio, he would, like there was a time he picked a cat up by the tail and like swung it and threw it back over the fence. He also had like BB guns. He would shoot the cats if they came on the property. And I never thought anything of it like this is normal.

Starting point is 00:45:09 but now that I'm older and I look back like that's horrifying that's horrible so yeah he was just just every horrible thing you could think of about a person and during our time in California he was also like I don't know he was in a party phase I don't remember I don't remember him doing this in other periods of my life but he he wanted to drink all the time and we had this neighbor that he was kind of close with our next-door neighbor was this man he had he lived with his wife and then they had some kids they were a little bit younger than me. They were more like my sister's age, but you know, toddlers. But because they were close, I would get to go to, I would get to go to their house sometimes. And it was fun because they had birds. They had kittens. And I was like, oh my gosh, so fun. They had a little kitty pool in the back.

Starting point is 00:45:52 I was like, this place is nice. We don't have this stuff on my house. So I just really enjoyed it over there. And they were, you know, always partying together and stuff like that. And so I just always got to be over there. And because he was next door, a lot of times I would just run back and forth between the two houses. But there was a night where I wanted to go over. So I asked my mom if I could if I could go over to their house and she was like, you need to ask your dad first. So I go into the man cave where he's playing his guitar. And the thing about my parents is you can't like when you want their attention, you have to wait for them to acknowledge you. You're not allowed to be like, hey, I need you. Hey, mom, hey dad. You have to wait for them to acknowledge you. And honestly,

Starting point is 00:46:31 that's something I still struggle with. Like as an adult, like I've literally had my boss like, I'll go up to my boss and stand at his desk. And there was a day where he was like, Lilliana, you can't just stand there. You have to say something. So I'm learning that it's okay for me to initiate whatever. But yeah, so I'm standing there and I'm waiting for him to finish playing his song on his guitar. So I'm just standing there. Then he finishes and he comes over.

Starting point is 00:46:55 He's like, what do you want? And I go, I want to go over to our neighbor's house. Can I go over? And he kneels down and gets right in my face and was like, why do you want to go over there so bad? like why do you like it over there so much and i was like i don't know like i could tell he was mad i didn't know what to say and he was like i think you love him more than me you love him more than me don't you and i was just like what like i was like what are you talking about um which i didn't say that of course instead i was just like no like nope and he was like no i know the truth you love him more than me

Starting point is 00:47:27 you're never going to see him again you're never going over there again and i just cried and went back in the house. And he did that, he did that a lot. I had this, this friend. He was my friend from kindergarten to second grade, which is the time that I, that I lived in California. I was friends with this, with this boy. I remember his first name, last name, his hair color, his eye color. I remember he was my best friend. We were both kind of nerdy. We would like race each other to finish our worksheets first and stuff like that. And our moms had actually met each other because there was, there was no bus system at the school. All parents had to come pick up their kids. So, you know, my mom was bound to meet some of my friends and their parents. So our moms had met each other

Starting point is 00:48:06 and kind of talked about a play date. So we set up, like maybe we'll have a play date on this day. This day comes around and I get all dressed up. I put on this little sunflower dress and I've got these blue like denim type shoes with little buckles on them and I felt so cute. And I was like, okay, I'm ready to go, whatever. And my mom was like, we need to ask your dad first. And I was just like, okay, so I had to wait for him to get home from work so I could ask. And I asked, or no, I didn't even ask actually. He was like, what are you all dressed up for? And I was like, oh, I'm going to have a play date. You know, whatever. And he found out that the friend was a boy, and he flipped his shit. He got right in my face and like, just, I cannot explain to you the way that this man looked

Starting point is 00:48:53 in his eyes. Like, I can tell how much he hated me all the time. But he would just get right in face and just be like, you know, look at you getting all dressed up for him. You think I'm an idiot. Like I know what you two are going to do. We're five years old. He's like, you're never going to see him again. Nope, you're never talking to him again. If I ever catch you talking to him again, like, I'm going to beat your ass and stuff like that, stuff like that. And I just, I remember just staring down in my shoes and just tears just falling on the floor. Like, looking back, it's like, you're sexualizing two five-year-olds, hello? Like, you're weird. You're a weirdo. It's true. And it would be true. I never got to go over to the neighbor's house and I never got to have

Starting point is 00:49:32 and played it with my friend. And I never really understood why. Like he never really made it clear why. Just cut off from family, cut off from neighbor, cut off from hanging out with friends outside of school, which I was friends with some girls too, but it was it was harder for me to get along with girls just because of the way that my mom communicated with me. I was a very catty child. There was a lot of drama going on with me because I acted like, like a mean girl, like from mean girls. Like I'm freaking, what's her name? Regina George. Like, I'm a mean little girl.

Starting point is 00:50:07 I did not get along along with other girls because I just didn't know how to talk to other girls. Like, whatever. But I did have a couple of friends here and there. But yeah. Or sometimes like my mom would watch, you know, another girl would ride home with me because our moms knew each other. so she would like watch us for a few hours until her mom could come pick her up or whatever. But yeah, I didn't really understand the issue with seeing some people and then other people were okay. Like I could not figure out why.

Starting point is 00:50:37 So like I said, he really liked to party a lot and play guitar really loud. I had it plugged up to the amps and he's like that's, when I think about him, like that's something he was passionate about was music. So he was always blasting his freaking guitar in the garage, which would have been fine, except my bedroom was directly above the garage. And if he, like, there's zero respect for me, why would he stop playing it when it's time for me to go to bed, right? So I started struggling to fall asleep. I eventually got used to it,

Starting point is 00:51:06 but I remember during this time it was really difficult to fall asleep. So I would be having trouble falling asleep, and he would, you know, take a break from playing guitar, come up and check on us, and I would still be awake and then get in trouble for still being awake, or I would fake being asleep and then he'd be like, I know you're faking, whatever, stuff like that. And I would be in trouble for not sleeping even though it's like you're keeping me awake. Hello.

Starting point is 00:51:30 Like, again, is anyone home? Like what's going on? Like, but yeah, so he started like being weird about my sleep. Like coming and telling me like when I check on you tonight, you better be asleep. If I check on you and you're awake, I'm beating your ass and stuff like that. And it was just difficult. I'm like, I can't force myself to, I can't fall asleep. I can't fall asleep. That's what it is. So he was just kind of like being weird about our sleep.

Starting point is 00:51:56 And then also too, like I said, he would he would lecture me on don't tell anybody what we do at home. Don't, you know, talk about what goes on in this house and stuff like that. And he would also do this thing. Like it was really weird. Like I genuinely as a child felt like he was possessed by because of the way he would switch. Like if my mom was in the room, he'd be normal, but mean, but still normal. You know, like as normal as possible. but like my my mom would leave the room and then all of a sudden his face would like drop and his eyes would go dead and he would look straight at me and like get up in my face and be like just just remember I'm always watching you even if you think I'm not I'm always watching you I know everything that you're

Starting point is 00:52:36 doing and stuff like that like and it was just always so scary and then and then my mom will come back in the room and he'd go back to normal and it was just like I couldn't understand it as a child like it was just really weird and just for him to be like I'm always watching you I'm always watching you even when you're sleeping, even when you think I'm not watching you, I am and stuff like that. And it was just scary. So I started really struggling to fall asleep at night, obviously. Like I'm fucking scared. You're scared me.

Starting point is 00:53:02 And you're being loud, keeping me up. I can't sleep. So yeah, the fact that I had a fear of bedtime, like, because he would watch me, like, when he came up to check on me, and he would, like, peek through the crack of the door. And I feel like normally parents just do like a quick look, but he would stand there and just stare. And it was really scary as a child. Like that's horror movie level scary as a child. Like just this man just standing there and just stare at all I can see is his eye on the crack of the door.

Starting point is 00:53:35 Like I'm scared. And so I started developing this fear of bedtime. And because of that, it opened up an entirely new window for this man. He saw that I was struggling to sleep. So he was like, do you want to stay awake? I will let you stay awake if you want, but you got to be quiet and you can't tell anyone. And I was like, okay, bet, because he was always playing video games. Like, he was very, like, always playing video games.

Starting point is 00:54:00 We're video games, party, guitar. That's it. Four modes. That's all he's got. So, and I loved watching him play video games. I've played video games myself since, I mean, there's pictures of me like two years old holding controllers, you know? So I still play video games. I've always loved them.

Starting point is 00:54:14 So I loved watching him play them too. And so he was like, yeah, you can come downstairs and watch me play a video game. And I was like, okay. So obviously, this is grooming. I'm sure you picked up on that immediately. You know, kind of offering, let's do this, but you got to keep it a secret, kind of testing me to see if I'm able to keep a secret and stuff like that. So he would let me stay awake and watch him play video games and eat a snack and whatever.

Starting point is 00:54:41 And I was like, oh, this is cool, I guess. Right, like he's being nice. Yeah. And not only nice, but he was affectionate as well. So he wanted to cuddle with me. He wanted me to sit in his lap. He wanted me to kiss him, stuff like that. And I was like, this is so drastically different from how he is during the day.

Starting point is 00:55:00 During the day, he hates me. He hates my guts and I can feel it. But during these times, it was like, oh, he's actually being soft and gentle with me. So I would stay awake. We would, you know, video games and eat snacks and then cuddle on the couch. And the more we did this, it's like the further and further he would go, obviously, the more. So it turned into, like, we were cuddling on the couch and he was like, it's really hot, like, because we're both, you know, pressed up on this couch.

Starting point is 00:55:29 Like, let's take our clothes off. And I was just like, okay, whatever. Like, I kept my panties on. And I typically slept in a little nightgown. Like, I had, like, that Disney collection of nightgowns that were popular back in the 2000s. So I would just be chilling in my panties and he would be in his underwear. and, you know, whatever, and just cuddling. And again, I'm a child. I don't think anything of it. And that's as far as it went for a while. Also, too, I forgot to say this earlier, in the Columbus house,

Starting point is 00:55:59 when after Austin and my mom got married, my mom's bedroom was downstairs and there was no bedroom door. So the very first time I woke up in the middle of the night and was hearing, you know, them having sex. And I had never heard anything like that. years old. And I walked downstairs, there's no bedroom door. I walk in and I see it. And I was just like shocked. Like what am I looking at? So the thing about my mom is my mom, all my life has been obese. I'm not being mean. That's a fact. She was like 350 plus pounds my whole life. And because I'm not trying to be mean, like, but she was the one on top. So because of her size, I couldn't really see what was going on anyway. But I was just like, they are both naked and they're doing something I've

Starting point is 00:56:44 never seen and they're making a lot of weird noises, I was traumatized. So I walk in, I see it. They go, get out of here, and I run back upstairs, and I curl up in my bed and I'm like, what the hell was that? You know, like, whatever. And I didn't get any kind of talk about it, nothing. I was expected to just go about my day, like I didn't even see that. And so it left four-year-old me in a position to try and figure out what I had seen. And so that turned into me kind of mimicking what I saw. Like, I would take my stuffed animals and kind of sit on them the way. that my mom was and being like, now, now what was this about? You know, what was she doing like this? And just trying to figure it out. But I never received any kind of, yeah, talk conversation about that,

Starting point is 00:57:24 which is odd, I think. But yeah, I bring it up because it kind of sparked this, this curiosity in that because I was just like, well, what are you doing? Like, that's it. So paired up with the fact that he's grooming me and getting me, you know, undressed and cuddling with me. And, and cuddling with me. kissing me and stuff like that at night. And he kind of knew that I was curious about it because when you're that age, you're not subtle about things like that, you know? And so he just kind of knew that I was curious. And there was a day like where I wanted something like a toy or to stay up. Maybe it was just to stay up. Can I stay up tonight? And he was like, yeah, but you got to do something for me. And I was just like, okay, what is it? And he was like, I want you to, this is going to be so embarrassing.

Starting point is 00:58:12 Like, I've talked about my story so much and for so long and to so many people, but I've always used the terms that I know what they are. But for this, I'm going to use the terms that I understood them to be when I was that age. So what he told me was happening was, he said, you got to do something for me. I was like, what do I got to do? He said, I want you to suck my finger. And I was like, why? Like, that's weird. He was like, it feels good to me. And I was like, okay, like, if that's all I got to do to stay up or get a toy or, you know, whatever it is that I want, sure, whatever. So the first time he does it, he takes me down, he, it's the middle of the night, everybody else is awake, and he takes me down into our laundry room, which is next to the garage. The only way we could get any further from

Starting point is 00:59:03 anybody is if we went into the garage. But we were in the laundry room, and he had, he had, had this black beanie hat and he would put it on me and cover my eyes with it and then he would rape me orally and i remember like just being like this is not a finger like i this the shape of it is really weird i could kind of visualize a shape in my brain i was like it's like arrow shaped it's got something on the end that's kind of jutting out like that but i didn't know what it was because when it came to bodies and their terms, we weren't even allowed to talk about our bodies. The term vagina, like, never heard that before. In my house, it was called a tutu.

Starting point is 00:59:48 Don't know why. And also, I was an aspiring dancer. Dance has always been my favorite thing. So when I was really young, I had this ballet lesson for little girls on a VHS. And I would watch it, and I was like, I want to be a ballerina. I can do that, you know, and I was just so proud that I could get my body to do the thing. that they were doing. So I was like, I want to be a dancer, and I still feel that way today. Like, I just want to be a dancer because it's always made me feel good in my body. So my parents were like,

Starting point is 01:00:16 well, we're not going to get you lessons per se, but we'll get you like, you know, DDR. That game was fun. Just dance games. I always love those and stuff like that. And then I had like, you know, little leotards and my little tutus and stuff so I could, I could pretend essentially. So to go around and, you know, talk about two-two is like nobody knows what I'm talking about, you know? But yeah, So if I didn't even know my own body, how would I know his? You know, so I was just like, I remember after, I was like, that was not your finger. Like, what was that? You know, I was like, tell me right now.

Starting point is 01:00:46 Like, he was like, it was my finger. I don't know what you're talking about. And I was just like, okay, but I remember like, you know, your knuckles have grooves. What that was was smooth and the shape of it was different. But because I didn't see it, I didn't know. I was just like, well, I guess, you know, whatever. in Christian households, because believe it or not, my parents are still raising me as Christian, telling me that if I lie, if I do anything like that, I'm going to burn in hell forever and all

Starting point is 01:01:14 kinds of stuff. But the way that houses work within Christianity is there's a hierarchy. So there's God above all else, and then there's the father, then the mother, then the children. So we were expected to only listen to him. Like if our mom said something, but he said something else, it was his word over hers. But then around this time that he started like doing the sexual stuff to me, he put himself up with God. To go against him was to go against God essentially. A lot of times like he would see me doing something, say,

Starting point is 01:01:50 say I'm just like eating a cookie or something. And he'll be like, who said you could have that cookie? And I would be like, mommy said I could have this cookie. And he would just, you know, go apeshit. Like, you know, what have I told you? I'm the king of this house. You only listen to me. You don't listen to your mom.

Starting point is 01:02:04 don't listen to anybody but me. Hello? That's my mom and you are not my dad, which I didn't know that at the time, but it's just like, I don't know. And my mom would stand there and let him say this stuff. Yeah, to go against him was to go against God. To disobey your parents was a sin.

Starting point is 01:02:20 You will go to hell is what I was taught. I was not given the option to ever say no. So even though what he was doing was making me wildly uncomfortable, because I couldn't breathe. I'm six years old at this point. I might have been five, but I can definitely say six. Just because, you know, with sexual abuse, your brain tends to get a little foggy on stuff like that. So even though I really hated what he was doing, I did not feel like I had the option to say anything because my experience before was, you know, it doesn't matter what you feel.

Starting point is 01:02:56 It doesn't matter what you think because what he says goes. And that's it. I couldn't breathe or like I remember my teeth would scrape against. him and it would make him mad and it's like I'm five I'm six I don't know how to you know do this hello like oh that that pool incident that I mentioned earlier I forgot to say after I fell in the pool I had a crazy fear of water and and that continued until I was like 17 like my my body would just freeze like I would freeze up around water even if it was only just like three feet deep I just I couldn't do it it was completely involuntary and and sometimes like I would freeze and then I would call out for

Starting point is 01:03:34 help. Like, can somebody come help me get away from the water because I'm so frozen, I can't move. And my parents found it hilarious, so funny that she's scared of water. And my mom was like, you used to love the water, Lillianna. Why don't she love the water anymore? As if she doesn't. Yeah. So there was a time in California where we went to SeaWorld. And that's good at all. SeaWorld's okay. But I really only remember a couple things from this trip. So we go to SeaWorld and there, you know that ride where it's kind of like the rapids. Everybody sits in a circle and that big floaty thing and the water splashes up into it, whatever, whatever. My parents wanted me to ride that. I'm scared of water. And they were like, it's only like a foot deep and whatever, but because it was rushing,

Starting point is 01:04:19 I can't see the bottom and it's loud. That's another thing. I'm autistic. Well, I'm autistic. So I didn't like the sound of the water either. And because I couldn't see the bottom and because my parents lied to me regularly for for their own amusement, I didn't believe that. I didn't believe them that the water was not very deep. So they wanted me to ride this and I'm fighting them the whole time and they're like, you're being dramatic, whatever. So we're in the line. The whole time we're in the line for this ride, and I'm begging them. Please don't make me ride this. Please, please, please. And other people in the line are seeing this happen and them going, oh my God, Lillianna, you're such a fucking baby. You're such a baby. It's so embarrassing and stuff like that,

Starting point is 01:04:56 which is weird. We get to the ride. It's our turn and we get on. And the people who are on the ride with us. It's me and my mom. My stepdad stayed behind to watch the other two girls because they were too little to ride it, obviously. So we get on and the people that are that are on with us are the people that were next to us in the line, obviously. So they saw the entire time me begging my mom, please don't make me ride this, please, please, please. So we get on it, buckled up, whatever. We start moving. I'm instantly locked. I'm back in my seat. My hands are on my little seatbelt. I'm white knuckling this belt. And I'm making this horrible grimace, apparently to my mom. Like, apparently my face was, you could tell, I was just terrified. And the whole

Starting point is 01:05:36 time I was stuck like that. I could not move the entire ride. And anytime it bobbed, you know, I horrible grimace every time. And my mom was just laughing the entire ride, like big belly laughs. It was so funny to her. Water would splash up into it and I'm like, we're going to sink because, you know, water gets in a boat. It's going to sink. I'm a child. Like, I'm scared. But the whole time, I'm just, like I said, I'm frozen. I'm pale as a skeleton, and I've just got this horrible face on my face, I guess. And I'm so scared. The whole time my mom is laughing, and I remember this other lady that was on the ride,

Starting point is 01:06:11 she reached her hand out and laid her hand. I'm going to cry. Sorry? Are you okay? It was 20 years ago, and I still just feel so strongly that this woman reached her hand out and placed it. on my hand that was gripping my seatbelt and she was just like rubbing my hand trying to tell me like it's okay you don't have to be scared you don't have to be scared and my mom's like no she's a baby

Starting point is 01:06:40 she's a baby and I couldn't properly appreciate that until I was in my 20s because I love to be like everybody saw me being abused and nobody did anything but my therapist pointed out this woman to me and I was like you're right because it's been 20 years since this trip and what do I remember I remember her. I remember her, her auburn hair. I remember her hands. And just that, that little moment of kindness, like, that day was, that day was horrible, horrible. Like, it doesn't even end there. Like, but I just remember that lady and it was, it's just everything to me. I think about her all the time. Just, and it's little things like that, like, it goes for anybody. If you, if you see a child being mistreated and you speak up and the parent is like, mind you're a bit,

Starting point is 01:07:28 business, whatever. And you might feel like defeated. Like there's nothing I can do to help that child, but I'm telling you, like, just the fact that somebody is there for them and sees the child in that moment, the child will remember. And I know that because I was that child. You know, I survived, yippee, and we get off the ride. And we go meet my stepdad. He's got my siblings. And my mom is just telling him what happened. Oh my God, you should have seen her. And she was like mocking my face, mocking the way I was locked up and stuff. She was just laughing. He was laughing. It was so funny, so funny, so funny. And I'm just crying to myself. Like, at this point, I had already learned to, like, silently cry. Even now, like, sometimes I want to scream and cry, and I just can't get

Starting point is 01:08:12 myself to do it. Because I learned only, the only thing that's allowed to come out is the tears, and that's it. I'm not allowed to make a sound. So I was just, I was just so sad. Later on that same trip, we get to this roller coaster, I would say it's a pretty iconic one at SeaWorld. It's called Journey to Atlantis. I'll never forget it. It's the one that at the end, it comes down in a big splash of water. So I'm standing up against the railing and I'm getting splashed by the water and I'm having a great time because, you know, it's California is hot and, you know, I'm getting splashed. And my parents were like, do you want to ride that? And I was like, fuck. Like, you guys are tripping. No. Like, they were like, yeah, I think you want to ride that. And I was like, don't do

Starting point is 01:08:54 this to me. Like, please, like, don't. Like, my tears instantly started because I knew they were going to force me to ride that. And I was just like, don't. I was like, it's way too high. I was like, I remember, like, I was trying to give them every single point, like, trying to argue with them. Please don't make me write it because of this. And they would argue. And I would be like, don't make me write it because of that. So it was like the infrastructure of the roller coaster. If people would get on and they would go up and then kind of like disappear. So I was like, does it go upside down? And my parents were like, no, it doesn't go upside down. but I couldn't verify that with my eyes.

Starting point is 01:09:26 Like, that's the kind of child I've always been, and I feel like I kind of had to be, because of the parents that I had. I always had to verify things with my eyes, like, because I just didn't believe the things they were telling me. So I was like, well, I don't believe you guys, because you guys lied to me. I didn't say that, obviously, but I was just like,

Starting point is 01:09:44 I don't know. I was like, the people are scared. That's why they're screaming, you know, whatever, and stuff like that. And it was, it just, it was all in vain, truly. They drag me over to see if I'm tall enough. They were like, if you're tall enough, you're going to ride it. And I'm like, please don't. They have me by the hand.

Starting point is 01:10:00 I'm literally digging my heels into the concrete while they drag me over to where it's high enough. And I'm putting up such a fight that people are starting to stare. Like, people are staring. And my parents are like, look, everybody can see you. Everybody thinks you're such a baby. You're embarrassing yourself. You know that?

Starting point is 01:10:18 And stuff like that. And I internalized it. I believed them every time that I'm not. such an embarrassment. Again, now that I'm older, I know these people are looking at you mistreat your child in public. That's what they're looking at. But yeah, I was just like, I don't care that I'm being embarrassing. I'm scared. So they take me over to where it's the height measurement. I am tall enough. And they go, oh, you're going to ride it? And I'm just like, oh my gosh, you thought I was crying before? I was bawling my eyes out. Like I was like

Starting point is 01:10:48 begging them with everything in my body. Please don't make me ride this. And surprisingly they actually did not make me and I was just like oh thank God you know whatever and we continued our trip at sea world and everything was fine however when we got home they were like oh yeah we're gonna punish you for that you deserve to be punished for being too scared at six years old to ride a roller coaster they decided that my punishment for being a baby was I was going to be treated like a baby. I had to wear pull-ups. I had to drink from a sippy cup. I'm six years old. I'm in first grade at this point. I met all of my milestones really early, so I was potty trained at two, and I was always really independent. I could pour my own drinks, get my cup and a drink out of the fridge and

Starting point is 01:11:37 pour myself a drink at like five years old. I've always been really independent because, hello, who are my parents? I kind of have to be, right? So I had to wear a pull-up, even at school. And it's like a pull-up functions the exact same way as underwear. You just pull them down, pull them back up. That's why they're called pull-ups. But it was about humiliation. That's what it was about. And I hated it. And they knew it. And I was meant to go through it for a week. And it didn't just stop at sippy cup and pull up either. It was also, if I tried to speak to them, they would go, what? I can't hear the baby? You hear the baby? What's the baby saying? Like, they would act like I was a baby babbling to them. And I would start crying about, I'm talking and you're,

Starting point is 01:12:19 you apparently can't hear me because I'm a baby. And so I would start crying and they would be like, oh, the baby's crying. And they would scoop me up, this big, exaggerated rock the baby, whatever. Yeah, so I was meant to go through that for a week. And it had been a few days of this. And I was just fed up, like truly. I remember my stepdad's sister, so my aunt was was at the house. and I went and asked her because I thought maybe she would be nicer than my parents. I went and I asked her because she knew why I was being treated that way. That's the thing. Like there were so many adults who knew that my parents were treating me this way and did nothing.

Starting point is 01:12:56 But she knew this was going on. So I went and I asked her, can we please go back to SeaWorld so I can ride the journey to Atlantis so that I don't have to be in a pull up anymore is what I asked her. I asked, can you guys please put me back into this situation that I'm perceiving as dangerous so that I can have the respect of existing as the age that I am. And again, I went to her thinking she would be nicer than my parents, but she wasn't. She just immediately laughed and called my parents into the room.

Starting point is 01:13:26 Guess who wants to ride the journey to Atlantis? And then big belly laughs. Like the sound of laughter is such a trigger for me, truly. But just laughing, laughing, and I would start crying. I went up to my room and I had my little sippy cup with water because I was dehydrated, crying my eyes out all day, every day. And I just sat in my bed and just stared down at my comforter, drinking my little sippy cup. And when I think about the feeling of emptiness and just utter defeat, helplessness,

Starting point is 01:13:55 that's what I think of is that moment. I don't think I've ever felt as empty and as worthless and as just defeated as I did in that moment. I knew then that if I wanted my parents to love me, I needed to find a way to turn my emotions off. And it's just not possible. Like, like I said, I've always been a sensitive kid. My emotions have always been bigger than other kids, and they still are to this day. My emotions are very big. I think it's trauma and autism, you know, but whatever.

Starting point is 01:14:29 I would try really hard not to show emotion around my parents and get punished anyway. like if I showed 20% of my emotion compared to the normal 100 and I would put in effort to keep my emotions to myself and only showed 20% I would still be punished for that 20% as if it was 100 and it was just like and that would just add even more more to me emotionally because it was like well I'm trying and I'm getting punished as if I'm not and it was just like it was just horrible horrible I at six years old hated myself I hated myself and I just was like my parents treat me this way because I deserve it. And I was like, there's something about me. Like, I don't know why I can't get myself to turn my emotions off. I don't know why. Like, I don't know why I have these very normal human things. And it was just a lot.

Starting point is 01:15:21 But yeah, I think, honestly, putting me in a pull-up for a week is probably the most fucked-up thing. Like, I'm talking about sexual abuse, but I think this incident is the most fucked up. because you, that's just weird. You're a weirdo for that. Like, you're a weirdo. And I think in this, what it showed my stepfather was that my autonomy and my boundaries can be completely ignored and my mom will laugh about it. So he took the sexual abuse as far as it could go.

Starting point is 01:15:49 And he asked me one night, you know, because I didn't like the world stuff. Like I said, I couldn't breathe and stuff and I didn't like it. And he was like, okay, well, do you want to do something else? And I was like, yeah, like anything about this. Brian, like, this is terrible. And he was like, he told me that he was going to put his, this is so embarrassing, but this is what I understood it to be at the time. He said, I want to put my finger in your butt then.

Starting point is 01:16:16 And I was like, why? And he was like, it would feel good to me. And again, it's just like, I can't argue with my parents. What am I going to do? Say no, get beaten, and then it happens anyway. Like, I'm not doing it. So I just, I was just very overly compliant. and that's what this kind of abuse does to children. It makes them feel like they have no option.

Starting point is 01:16:36 Like they just have to go with it. So he took me up to the guest bedroom, separated from my mom's bedroom by just one wall is between me and my mom, and he's doing this to me. He puts the black beanie on me and puts me on the guest bed. I'm like face down on all fours. And I remember like feeling something really slippery. Like my child brain, the only thing I could think of that was so slippery, was like butter when it melted. So I was like, why is he putting melted butter on me right now? Like, it's just really weird.

Starting point is 01:17:09 And then, yeah, he raped me. It was not putting his finger in my butt. I did not understand that, like, things could go in your vagina. I thought it was like booty only and whatever. And I think he also did that so that if I did disclose, I would just say he put a finger in my butt, which is totally different than he raped me, you know? Stam penetrated me. So he did that.

Starting point is 01:17:31 And all I really remember about the first time is just, like, pain. I feel like I just blacked out. I don't remember how the night ended. I don't remember going to bed. I don't remember. But after that, it was like he wanted to do it all the time, all the time. That's what he wanted to do. Even if I was asleep, he would come wake me up and just take me to the guest bedroom.

Starting point is 01:17:54 and it just made me really dissociative. Dissociation to me is kind of like, instead of looking through my eyes, it's as if I'm watching this on a big screen in a movie theater. I started to feel like my life isn't real and it's just something that I'm watching. And I just felt so powerless. And it was after he raped me that I went mute.

Starting point is 01:18:16 I just, it was like I floated so far away from the controls. Like if you've seen Inside Out, they have that little control panel. It was like I couldn't reach it anymore. And I was just floating up above myself and just watching myself. And that went on for like weeks. And I wasn't talking to anyone. I would still go to school.

Starting point is 01:18:36 And my teacher gave me a pass because I would like write stuff. But I just wasn't talking to anyone. Nobody, not a word. And most of the time when people talk to me, I wouldn't even acknowledge them. Like I wouldn't even look their way or anything. It was like nobody could even get through to me. When I think about what it felt like for me at this time, I just feel like my soul was somewhere like just floating somewhere.

Starting point is 01:18:57 I don't know how to describe it. It's really weird. And to just watch myself, you know, do all the stuff he would come in and get me and I would just get out of bed and follow him to the bedroom. And I just watch myself do that. Did he do it to your siblings? He did sexually abuse my siblings. I'm the only one that he penetrated, but I will say that he did sexually abuse my siblings.

Starting point is 01:19:19 I don't really want to give details because that's theirs. I do know that he was sexually abusing them as well. But yeah, so I stopped talking to everyone and people started to get worried. My mom was like, gosh, what's wrong with her? Something's wrong because this was so drastically different. Like I was a dancer. I wanted to take a video of me and I'd love to play dress up. I'd go to the grocery store and my little snow white dress.

Starting point is 01:19:42 I don't care. But then I became very withdrawn, very insecure, didn't want to talk to anyone. and instead of like doing some research, read a book. You love reading books. Read a frigging book about child behavior or something or look online or take me to a doctor or something to figure out what happened. But she didn't. Instead, what she did was she, while I was away at school, she read my diary. And when I came home from school, she left it open on the page where I wrote about,

Starting point is 01:20:18 him raping me, except I was only six years old, so I didn't know what I was writing. And what I wrote was, I hate Austin. I didn't even say, dad. I said, I hate Austin, period. I want him out of my life, period. That's what I wrote. And she left it open on that page, and I came home and saw it, and for the first time in months, I spoke. I said, why would you do that? Is what I said. I remember I was so angry. I wanted to, like, I wanted to kick her in the shit or something like, but, But instead, all I could manage was just, why would you do that? And she was like, you know, I could see in her face like, oh my gosh, you're talking. Like, she was like, you weren't talking to anyone, honey.

Starting point is 01:20:57 And I was just like, I just went up to my room. I didn't even say anything else. Because now it's like, now I can't even, even my journal. I can't fucking have my journal. Seriously? Like, it was just awful, awful. And also, too, about doctors. I should have mentioned earlier, like, my parents are very neglectful as well.

Starting point is 01:21:16 We never went to doctors or dentists unless it was like an emergency But yeah Like I'm still learning About doctors and dentists Like that's something I'm discovering now Is like You know we should have been to doctors

Starting point is 01:21:31 And they always said it was because we were too poor But we were getting money from the government Because they're in the military We had we were living in a two-story house Plus garage in California With enough bedrooms for everybody to have their own two bathrooms, there's three bathrooms actually in this house, two cars. Like, I can't stress enough, we were middle class, and they're telling me,

Starting point is 01:21:54 we're too poor to take you to a doctor, okay, dokey, whatever, which I didn't realize that until I was older. Now I know it's just neglect. It was just neglect is all it was. Which actually, with the neglect, there was a lot of injuries that tea sustained in this house. There was a time where she was like pretending to be a dog, so she was like, you know, as kiddos do. running around on all fours, like pretending to be a dog, and she, like, slipped on something and

Starting point is 01:22:21 hit her face on the linoleum floor. And her teeth turned black, her two front teeth turned black. They essentially died. And they didn't take her to a dentist or anything. And also, too, in that she injured her jaw to where she couldn't, like, chew and swallow properly. And that's something that she has dealt with, like, I don't know if she's been to a doctor, but it's something she's dealt with at least until she was an adult. And the whole time, like, I remember she would take a really long time to eat, and she would, like, have to, like, basically liquefy her food in her mouth before she could eat it. And my parents and myself and my other sibling, because that's the thing, like, you see your parents doing something, so you think it's

Starting point is 01:23:06 okay. So my parents would make fun of her for eating so slow. And then we would do it, too. And it's just like now that I know it was from this injury because it's just horrifying. Like how do you not take your kid to the doctor? And then there was also stuff like she she stepped on this piece of glass and cut her foot pretty badly. No, no medical anything for that. There was a time where my stepdad like came through the door and like the door hit her toenail and just ripped her toenail completely off, which was crazy. Nothing for that either. but anytime they had any kind of issue, they got to go to a doctor, so I don't know. It was just really weird.

Starting point is 01:23:46 They really tried to make us scared of other people. I remember I had this little dress that kind of looked like a cheerleader dress, and I was like, I would be so cute as a cheerleader. I want to do cheerleading. Like, that's all it took, really, was just a cute dress. It's like, I love the uniform. I want to do cheerleading. And my parents, like, when I told them, they were like, no, if you do cheerleading, then you're going to get hurt. And they proceeded to tell me, like, some of the most graphic stories I've ever heard in my life. Going as far as to like show me pictures and stuff of or like a video of like girls falling and breaking their freaking neck and stuff like that. I'm six years old. Like I'm not going to be doing, I'm not going to be getting thrown in the air or

Starting point is 01:24:20 anything. But it was just about they'd never wanted me to do anything extra. I couldn't do dance. I couldn't do cheerleading. I couldn't do anything. Or anything that you loved or were interested literally, literally. And also too, there was a day where I wanted to take one of my toys to school, like just to have it, I guess. They were like, no, you can't take your toys to school. And And I feel like a normal parent would be like, it's because we don't want somebody to steal it or something like that or for you to lose it at school. But instead, they were like, if another kid wants that, they could stab you for that. You know that, right? Like, they could just stab you and take that.

Starting point is 01:24:52 And I was just like, it made me so scared of other people all the time because it was always like, other people are looking at you. Other people are judging you. Other people want to hurt you. And so I was just scared of other people all the time. And that's exactly what they wanted. We also like everything we consumed was controlled in the sense of like TV

Starting point is 01:25:12 so like I was a Disney Channel kid we were only allowed to watch Disney Channel and like only is certain shows on Disney Channel and stuff like that makes it hard to relate with other kids like when you don't let your your child you know kind of interact with anything within pop culture I go to school and everybody's talking about stuff that I don't know what it is

Starting point is 01:25:31 you know like no oh music as well the only kind of music I was allowed to listen to was country music, which if you like country music, good for you, but I definitely do not. It's my least favorite genre of all time. And I'm more of a pop girl. I want pop. I want EDM. Like I like, I like big. I like loud. I like metal. I like stuff that's emotional. I like to hear sad songs. I like to whatever. I remember like being, being like six years old and asking my stepdad, why he doesn't listen to more girls. Like he always listens to men singing. I was like, I want to hear some girls. Like whatever. Like I've always been like,

Starting point is 01:26:06 this is not it, you know? But that was the only thing I was allowed to listen to. And just stuff like that, it made it really hard to relate to other kids. So it's like socially, I wasn't being given any social skills to begin with. And then also, too, I don't have anything to talk about kids anyway, like, or talk about with kids anyway, because I just can't relate to them. My life is so drastically different from them. And I can't talk to them about what's going on at home. So my conversations with kids at school was just school and that's it. Or, I don't. I just wouldn't talk at all because it was just like, I have nothing to say. So there's no point.

Starting point is 01:26:40 It was during this time in California, I took a pretty big fall on the playground. I broke my arm. And when it happened, I went crying to my mom, obviously, and I'm holding my arm like this. And she was like, it is not broken. Like, oh my gosh, whatever. Like, you're being dramatic. And it's like, I get it. You know, every kid always thinks everything's broken.

Starting point is 01:27:02 But it's like, can you at least look at it? Like, hello? But so I'm, I'm still crying and she's like, okay, let's just go home from the park because she's not calming down. So we go home and we walk in the house. It's probably been like 20 minutes still. And we walk in the house and I'm still walking around like this. And then she was like, let me see your arm. I was like, here you go.

Starting point is 01:27:22 I don't know why it took you so long. Let's be real. And it was like all purple and stuff. And she was like, oh my gosh. She's like, it's broken. So I did thankfully go to the hospital after that. Kind of bummed because I didn't get to pick out my cast. stepdad picked out my cast and I'm like okay I like low-key can I break a bone again so I

Starting point is 01:27:40 can pick my cast this time dang but yeah it was it was like American flag ugly and nobody could sign it and like oh it's so annoying I wanted a pink one but whatever also too like because of this the sexual abuse that was going on it it makes kids hypersexual and that's something that people don't want to talk about but like it's a fact like it starts happening you don't understand your body all of I don't know It was just weird. So I started, like, masturbating a lot because I kind of already figured it out because of when I was mimicking the stuff with the stuffed animals and stuff.

Starting point is 01:28:16 So I kind of already figured it out. And then I was like, oh, okay. Like, so that's happening. And my parents can always hear it. Like, they can hear the bed, you know, upstairs. And so it was like this thing that I was always doing that my parents always knew that I was doing. And they would, like, but they never would talk to me about it.

Starting point is 01:28:34 it. I knew that they knew, like, because it's like I would do it. They would come upstairs and be like, what are you doing? I'd be like nothing. Like stuff like that. Because that's how I learned to do it was with me on top. So it was always loud. So, yeah, it was just like this thing that everybody knows that I'm doing and still nobody's talking to me about it. Kind of odd. Also, another incident of me gaining the reputation of a liar is when I was in first grade, I excused myself from the class because I had to go to the bathroom. And I go to the bathroom and there's these two older girls in there and they're like not letting me in. And I'm like, please let me in. I'm about to pee my pants. Like actually, like truly, let me in. So I'm standing there and arguing with these with these girls and they're not

Starting point is 01:29:16 letting me in any of the stalls. And then I pee all over myself. I couldn't do it anymore. So I was just like, okay, well, make myself back to the classroom. I tell my teacher what happened. And I told on these other girls. And she was like, okay, well, I got to change of clothes. And then, I was just, I got to change of clothes. And we walked around while the older classes were at recess and stuff. And she was like, point out these girls because I told her what they look like and whatever, but I didn't know who these girls were, obviously. And we walked around and I couldn't find the girls. And we went to like some cafeterias.

Starting point is 01:29:49 Like we went to multiple places and I couldn't find these girls. And then she was like, I think you just had an accident and you're embarrassed to say that you had an accident. And I was like, no, I had an accident. I'm not saying that I didn't. I'm saying, you know, whatever. But instead, I mean, of course, like, that's the monologue I have in my head, but I never spoke. I'm still like that. So in my head, I was just like, nobody ever believes me when I say anything.

Starting point is 01:30:16 Like, nobody ever, like, whatever. And also, too, it was said to my parents, like, you know, maybe she's just embarrassed because I don't know these girls that she's talking about. And so, again, my parents were like, she's a liar. Oh, my gosh. And my stepdad also start around this time, started telling us. lies about me. So like he would tell people that I didn't know how to tie my shoes when I did. And it really frustrated me because I was just like, why are you telling people that? And he would be like, because you can't and stuff like that. And I would tie my shoes right in front of him. I'm like,

Starting point is 01:30:47 what are you talking about? But now that I'm older, I know it's because he wanted to maintain that reputation for me. So if I ever said anything, nobody would believe me. And loki, it was working. So because I was dissociative and had a lot of trauma, like I started at night, especially like around the dark and stuff like that, I started like seeing things. And I don't know, it's hard to talk about because some people tell me like, well, you were a child. So that's normal. But it's like it's not normal because it wasn't happening to me before the sexual abuse. But it's like I would make these little pictures on MS paint. Do you remember that like back in the day? And my mom was. would print them out and I would hang them up on my wall and be like, yes, I'm an artist, whatever. And I remember I started to get scared of my own art because I started seeing it, like, move. I would see, like, faces in it and stuff. Or I would see, like, I remember I saw this lady and she had, like, blood coming out of her mouth and stuff like that. Stuff that six-year-olds don't typically think about.

Starting point is 01:31:46 And I went crying to my parents about it and they took all my pictures down, but didn't do anything about the fact that I'm seeing things now. Or they would put me in the corner and, like, the, you know, like, sometimes walls are textured, kind of like the table. It's like, again, I would see it kind of move and I would see faces or like scary faces would just pop right out at me and stuff. And I just couldn't do anything about it because nobody cares that I'm having that issue. So, but yeah, so that was something I was struggling with as well. I also was the flower girl in one of my cousin's wedding. So when I was really little, I had this older cousin. She's about my mom's age. And she would like watch me. I remember we would make brownies

Starting point is 01:32:22 and mac and cheese and just hang out and have a good time. I was so young. That's kind of all I really remember is just like baking and stuff with her. And she got married and she made me the flower girl in her wedding. So we traveled from California to Indiana so I could do that. And I remember like, well, first of all, when I got my hair done for it, that was the first time I'd been to a hairdresser and I sat like a completely still like statue. I remember like everybody there like all of the adults were like, wow, she's so like, I've never seen a kid so still. And it's like because, yeah, I get beaten at home, hello. Like, that's another thing. If you, if you see kids who are so obedient that it shocks you, that's a red flag. Like, truly. And I'll get into that later because, yeah, but I was just super still.

Starting point is 01:33:09 I got my little dress. I felt like a little princess. I had little heels. I felt like a little lady. Whatever. And yeah, it was, it was all fun. But I remember at the reception, the bride, the groom and all the bridesmaids and groomsmen and stuff, they, they wrote in on a limousine. And I felt left out because I was like, I'm in here too. I'm the flower girl. well, hello. So I was, I was being kind of pouty about it. I didn't cry. I didn't make a scene, but I was kind of pouting, you know. And my cousin, this cousin that I was kind of close with, we kind of grew up together up until my stepdad started isolating me, but she and I were close. So she was at the reception too, and I wanted to go stay the night with her. So I was asking my

Starting point is 01:33:48 mom, like, can I go stay the night with her? And she was like, sure. So I, you know, get my change of clothes and I go home with her. And that night, we're laying in bed and we're going to going to sleep. And she falls asleep. And I have it in my brain that the way that I pouted today was not acceptable. I sat there and I got out of bed at six years old and got a notebook and a pen and I forced myself to write lines in the middle of the night because I was pouting because I didn't get to ride in the limousine. And I remember my cousin woke up and she looked over and she was like, what are you doing? You need to go to bed. And I was like, no, I deserve this. And I was like, no, I deserve this. I literally said that.

Starting point is 01:34:27 At six years old, I'm saying stuff like that. Heartbreaking, truly. And I consider that to be, even though it's not physical self-harm, I do consider that to be my first kind of bout of self-harm, just forcing myself to write lines over something that's completely normal, you know? Doing it, nobody's making me do it. I'm making me do it. And I think that really goes to show just, you know,

Starting point is 01:34:52 how my parents were treating me, how it was affecting me. I felt like I was bad all the time. needed to be punished all the time. So yeah, I was, I was dealing with that and just always hating myself in general. And also, too, like, occasionally, occasionally he would get deployed, so he would be gone for like a week, two weeks. I remember there was a big one where he was gone for six months. I was like, oh my gosh, it was heaven. I got to sleep in my mom's bed with her, which was, which was something like when kids are sexually abused, they tend to regress to a younger age. So they'll do things like wet the bed again, you know, suck their thumb again, stuff like that. And, and, and, and

Starting point is 01:35:26 And that was definitely I just wanted to sleep in my mom's bed. I just wanted to cuddle my mom. And so I got to whenever he was gone. Was she nicer to you when he was gone? It's not that she was nicer, but it's kind of like he was the big one. So like the big monster is gone. I can breathe. With my mom, she wasn't so like, you know, not every little thing set her off like it did for him.

Starting point is 01:35:51 But she was still like, my mom is very much like she'd rather just, oh my gosh, these kids, like, leave me alone. You know, like, I want to do what I want to do. Get out of here, kids. It's like that. But yeah, so I just always wanted to cuddle my mom and, you know, sleep in her bed and stuff like that. And it was just, I loved when he wasn't around. At some point, during one of his deployments, he got injured. And so he received an honorable discharge because he could no longer serve. And from that point, he was disabled. And so now both of my parents are unemployed and all of our money is coming from the government. We're still middle class, which I'm like, how are you? I didn't know the government gave that much money, but I guess for

Starting point is 01:36:31 military, yeah, they do. So yeah, from this point until I say otherwise, my parents are both stay-at-home parents. And it's odd that he's too disabled to work, but not disabled enough to stop sexually abusing kids, but that's just me. Like, whatever. So now that he's no longer deployed or in the Navy, we moved back to Indiana to be around, you know, our family and stuff like that. So at this point, I'm seven years old and I'm starting my third grade year. The way that I was treated by other kids was immediate and drastically different. They, you know, they came in, they introduced me to the class. Does anyone have any questions?

Starting point is 01:37:06 She's from California. Does anybody have any questions about California? And a kid raised her hand, why are you so tan? And I was like, I don't know. I've never been asked that question before. I was like, I don't know. I think I just got a tan in California is what I said. but then, like, you know, a few months went by, I'm still tan.

Starting point is 01:37:26 Why are you so tan? I don't know. My parents never explained to me that I was a person of color. Like, so I would hear my parents talk about people of color, like, oh my gosh, like being in California, the Hispanic population there is really heavy. And there's nothing wrong with that, but my parents hated Mexican people, which was odd because my mom had a Hispanic friend. So how do you have a Hispanic friend? But she also had a black friend, and I was. friends with her son. He was in the grade above me. And everybody was like, they're so cute together. He's like, we're children. Stop. But anyway. So we would always hang out with them. And my stepdad would

Starting point is 01:38:03 like, call her the inward with the hard R and be like, I don't want you hanging around them and stuff like that. But my mom was just like, ignore him. That's just how he is. Like, I don't know why people are like that. Like, why are you excusing that? That's so weird. But anyway, so yeah, I saw the way that my parents treated people of color, and I didn't know that I was a person of color. I just thought I was tan because I lived in California. Like, I'm just getting a tan. I'm on the beach, bro. Like, whatever. But I started to get bullied a lot at school for being ugly. Like, that's the number one thing that I received as a kid. You're ugly. Like, you're so ugly. And now that I'm older, I think it was just racism. I think they weren't used to certain features that I have. You can

Starting point is 01:38:44 definitely tell I'm a person of color more when I don't have makeup on. But yeah, I think They just weren't used to seeing certain features. But again, I internalized that. I'm ugly, and clearly that affects me because at home, I'm told I'm ugly and worthless and all kinds of stuff anyway. So at school, I'm also ugly and therefore unworthy of friendship because I'm ugly because that's something I had learned previously and stuff like that. So it was just tough.

Starting point is 01:39:11 And while I was in third grade, there was a time where I developed this really bad cough. Like, I would cough and then I couldn't catch my breath. And my parents thought I was just sick, so they kept me home from school for a couple days. But it wasn't getting any better. So they were like, okay, I guess we're going to go to the doctor. So we go to the doctor and they get some x-rays of my lungs. And I remember the doctors were so nice to me because I was so little. So they were like, you know, we're going to put this on you like a dress and you're doing such a good job.

Starting point is 01:39:41 Like they were so smiley and accommodating and whatever. But once the x-ray came up, they got serious. And they turned to my parents and they were like, do you guys see all this smoke in her lungs? Like, you guys see that, right? She can't breathe. She's having trouble breathing because your guy's a secondhand smoke. Like, don't smoke around her because this is like excessive for how old she is. And my parents immediately were like, that's bullshit.

Starting point is 01:40:07 I don't know what you're, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Secondhand smoke isn't real and stuff like that, whatever. But I got prescribed an inhaler to take. So I had one for home and one for school. And I was meant to take it, you know, after recess, after gym class, and then at home just as needed. But the inhaler that I had for home, my parents kept a hold of it. And I had to ask them any time I wanted it, which is fine. You don't want your kid abusing the inhaler or anything.

Starting point is 01:40:34 But whenever I asked my parents for my inhaler, they would go, do you need it? I don't think you need it because you're asking me so clearly you can breathe. you're asking me for it so I think you can breathe yeah I don't think you need it that bad and then eventually I just stopped asking for it but at school it's like I would just go say I'm here for my inhaler they would hand it over no problem and and I wish that I could make the connection like my parents aren't treating me right but instead it was always like I guess I don't need it because I can ask whatever but it it was hard like you know running and jumping and stuff like that it was I still kind of struggle with it, like, especially, like, trampolines, like, trigger it so bad.

Starting point is 01:41:16 I don't know what it is, but I cannot catch my breath on those, but yeah, so, and I remember going around and telling everybody, I have smoke in my lungs, because I felt like, I felt like I had a superpower or something, like I could breathe fire or something. I was like, the doctor said, I have smoke in my lungs, and my teacher was like, that's concerning, you know? Again, the physical abuse and the sexual abuse is still continuing. It's all still going on. So, Yeah, it's still going on. There was also a pajama day at school, so I was like, I want to wear my pajamas to school. And my stepdad was like, no, you're not going to participate in pajama day because I don't want anybody to see you like that.

Starting point is 01:41:54 I'm like, see me like what? But it was for, we were going to watch Polar Express and get hot chocolate and we could all wear our pajamas. And I was like, everybody's doing it. So I want to do it. And I don't care if he told me no. So for the first time of my life, I like kind of rebelled. I put my pajamas on under my clothes and then took my clothes off when I got to school. And I was wearing like a long sleeve pink shirt and it had this little cheetah on it.

Starting point is 01:42:20 And then the pants were cheetah print pants. And I had a good time. But then I was stupid and completely forgot to put my clothes back on. So when I got home, I got, yeah, I'm beaten for participating in Pajama Day because he sexualizes my pajamas. I'm like, that's not my problem. But whatever. Also, this one's really weird, but he forced me to get my ears pierce. Like, I was turning eight, and he wanted me to get my ears pierce for my eighth birthday.

Starting point is 01:42:51 And I was like, I don't want my ears pierce. Like, it's just not something I want. He was like, no, I think it's because you're a sissy. Like, that's another thing. Like, my parents hated sensitivity and crying. They would say, I'm a sissy. I'm a cry baby. My mom has told me once that she would rather be poor than be a cry baby.

Starting point is 01:43:08 I'm like, okay, you're a weirdo. I don't know. So it was just like, I hated it. And it was relentless. Like, anytime I said anything, they would just be like, yeah, it's because you're a sissy and stuff like that. Just straight bullying me. Like, I'm a child. Hello.

Starting point is 01:43:24 But yeah, so eventually I was like, just take me to get my ears pierce. Like, please, please, because that's the thing. Like, they would always just push me to the point to where I was just like, just do whatever you want, truly. Like, I'm just so sick. So I went and got my ears pierce. I didn't cry or anything. I did kind of like flinch and they had a field day with that, but it's like, I don't know what you guys want for me. Like I went and I did it and it still wasn't good enough. But then later in life when I want piercings, all of a sudden I'm not allowed to have

Starting point is 01:43:48 them. How weird is that? Anyway, I also think that the school that I went to, like the staff treated me badly, I think. There was a time where I heard this, this girl on my bus told me a rumor about this boy. It was an inappropriate rumor. And I went and repeated the rumor to somebody else. the next day at school I got called into the principal's office and it was the boy that the rumor was about and then a couple other people and she was like did you say this rumor about this boy and I said yeah I did say that like I'm not going to deny it I did say that I was like but I heard it from somebody else I heard it from this person she was like no you made it up I know you did I heard it on the camera and I was like well I didn't and she was like I'll pull it up right now the bus camera

Starting point is 01:44:32 it picks up audio we can hear you you made up that rumor and i was like no i didn't and it went on for like literally like 20 minutes of her just grilling me in front of these three other kids they're all white she's white and i i can't help but feel it's a racism thing because i i kept stressing to her like for god's sake just pull up the camera then show me because whatever but i kept telling her no it was this other girl so she calls the other girl into the office says did you say this about this boy she went no that's it. That's the only time she asked her. Only time she asked her. So they were dismissed. They called up my parents and told my parents and my heart just sank into my freaking butt because I knew I was going to get my shit rocked when I got home. And I did. I came home like they they called my

Starting point is 01:45:21 parents said said what I did and the rumor was inappropriate and that that made it even worse. It wasn't it wasn't about the fact that I'm gossiping and lying quote unquote. It's the fact that the rumor was really inappropriate. But again, it was something I heard from someone else. And so they tell my parents, they send me home with a note that has to get signed and all kinds of stuff. And I get home, I tell my parents the same story. And they were like, do you really expect us to believe that? They were like, you probably sat there on the bus. I'm like, yeah, that's a good lie. I'll go with that one, huh? And I was like, I'm telling the truth, dude. Like, I'm telling the fucking truth. And yeah, I got beaten pretty badly for that. Yeah, I just find it really odd that you

Starting point is 01:46:01 grilled me for like 20 minutes, but you asked that other girl one time, another white girl that she brought in. I was just internalizing so much. Like I was, I felt like a freaking black hole on the inside all the time, all the time. Just something's wrong with me. I don't know why other people treat me this way, but they do. And I'm turning myself inside out. I'm praying to God, this God that I'm being told exists and is watching me all the time. I'm asking him to just do whatever you need to do to make other people treat me nicely. Like, if I have to sacrifice something, just tell me what it is. Like, I just, I hated it.

Starting point is 01:46:36 Or I was just like, you know, I would literally pray to just die in my sleep. Like, I'm like eight years old, seven, eight years old praying to just die in my sleep because I'm so unhappy. To cope with my emotions, like, because I wasn't allowed to express anger, especially, like, anger big, no, no. Like, I'm not even allowed to show anger in my eyes. Like, and I'll get to that. But so a lot of times, if I was getting like lectured or or punished for something or something, I started like instead of gritting my teeth or just kind of like, because they could always see it in my face if I got mad.

Starting point is 01:47:08 So then I started focusing my energy like more in my hands. So then I would just start gripping myself and digging my nails into myself and stuff like that. And I was like, wait, this was actually really effective. So at eight years old, when I was upset, I would go up to my room and I would scratch. my legs until they bled. I would like pinch myself. I would pull my hair out. In my brain, I genuinely thought it was better. I had been doing it for a while and I remember my mom like, I think she was complaining about him like being mad and like slamming stuff or something. And she was like, I get that he's angry, but he doesn't need to act like that. And I was like, yeah, I know. Like when

Starting point is 01:47:46 I'm angry, I just scratch myself. And she like just looked at me. And she was like, what? And I was like, yeah. She was like, don't do that. And I was like, why not? She was like, because, like, just don't do that. But that's the only thing she said about it. So obviously, I just continued doing it. Like I said earlier, I really loved school. I loved learning. I always got good grades. When I was younger, like, in California, like my, I remember my grandma was really, really praising me for how smart I was. She would like give me a book and be like, read me this one. Now read this one to me. And she would be like, wow, you know that word and stuff. like that, like she was just praising me. And we have like a home video of her being like,

Starting point is 01:48:26 you guys couldn't read this good when you were her age and stuff like that. And like just really, really gassing me up. I felt like, oh, okay, like they like that I'm smart. So I'll keep getting good grades so I can get praised because clearly this is a good thing. And I, and it was easy for me anyway. But it went from something I was praised for to something that was expected of me. And they told me that if my grades ever dropped, I would get beaten. So that was a lot. to deal with. But at the same time, it also kind of wasn't because, like I said, it came very naturally to me. Like, I never had to study very hard to get straight days and stuff. But in third grade, or maybe fourth grade, I'm not sure. It was in this house that I brought home my report card.

Starting point is 01:49:08 I brought home my first and my only C plus that I've ever received on my report card. And it was in social studies. I really struggle with social studies because dates and names I'm not good with. And yeah, they were like, well, we told you what was going to happen. I got a ritualistic beating for that. That was it. They didn't help me with my homework. They didn't ask me what it was that I was struggling with. Nothing, nothing, just a beating, and that's it. I'm literally getting bruised over a C plus. And also, they were just kind of weird about my school in general. So in Indiana, like, it's, I don't know if you've ever been there, but it's like, oh my gosh, there's nothing over there. It's just long, straight roads and corn. Like, you have to drive, like, half an hour just to get to a Walmart.

Starting point is 01:49:55 Like, I always call it, like, bum-fuck, Indiana. Like, there's nothing there. So the school bus ride was typically about an hour. So I would get my homework. Obviously, I'm an efficient girl. Like, I would, in the mornings, I would brush my hair and brush my teeth at the same time. Like, I'm autistic, so I'm all about, let's be efficient, you know? So I was like, well, obviously, I'm going to do my homework on the bus.

Starting point is 01:50:16 and my parents like for some reason really didn't like that so they started they started checking my homework to see like you know the bus like when it hits a bump and it kind of makes you shake they would like check my handwriting for that and then I would get beaten if if they found out they did that I did it on the bus and I'm just like why does it matter like they would always tell me it's called homework not bus work and I'm like okay I guess I see that like as a kid I'm just like okay I deserve it because I should be doing it at home but now that I'm older I'm just like what the fuck what I'm out about like Right. You guys are weird. Hello? Like, during this time, I had my, I had my own room and then my sisters shared a room.

Starting point is 01:50:53 And there was a day where tea came to me and she was like, she was kind of telling me that she was scared. Like, she was scared to go to bed. And my heart just like sank. This was when I found out that he was abusing them to. And I was like, why? Like, I knew the answer that I was looking for and I knew she was going to say it, but I needed to verify it first. And she told me that he was going in and abusing her. And I was just like, okay, that's not going to happen because I know what it feels like. And as the oldest, like, it's the oldest child always gets that responsibility pushed on them. You're the oldest. You have to lead by example.

Starting point is 01:51:33 You have to protect your siblings and stuff like that. So, yeah. Or like a lot of times I would get punished for things. Like if my siblings did something bad, I would get punished too because it's like, clearly you're not a good enough influence. whatever that means, you know, whatever. Because we're all two years apart. I don't know, whatever.

Starting point is 01:51:49 But yeah, so I immediately was like, okay, well, I have to protect them, obviously. So I moved them, both of them. Like, M didn't have to tell me anything. I was like, I'm moving you both into my bed. I had a queen-sized bed with this big, fluffy pink comforter on it, you know, bougie like that, and had them in the bed with me, and then I had them on the inside with me on the outside, because he would, like, come and, like, molest us and stuff.

Starting point is 01:52:14 So I was just like, well, if I'm the one on the outside, he's probably not going to reach over and try to get to them. You know, so I was like, I'll just be on the outside. And I would wake up and he would be like orally raping me or like there was times where he would just push his penis like up against my face and stuff while I'm sleeping. With the siblings in that bed? Yeah. And it would just like wake me up. But I always was like, you know, just stay asleep because if I wake up, he's going to try to like take me to the basement or something and do other stuff. So I would just like roll over and stuff.

Starting point is 01:52:46 Oh my gosh, I completely forgot like my worst memory that I have. I must have like blacked out, forgot about it. But in California, before he started like raping me and stuff, there was a night where I was laying in bed pretending to be asleep. And he lifted up my nightgown. And I'm only sharing this because it's my, it's my worst memory. I kind of daydream about my mom finding this and watching it or something. And so I'm like, yeah, you're going to hear my worst memory.

Starting point is 01:53:13 Sorry, you have no choice. But my worst memory, I'm laying in bed and I'm pretending to be asleep. And he comes in and he's standing over me and I'm like, yeah, just keep pretending to be asleep. He's just checking on me. And he slowly pulls the blanket down and he slowly lifts my nightgown up. And I'm just, again, I'm like, I'm not supposed to feel this. I'm asleep. So I'm just laying there.

Starting point is 01:53:34 Then all of a sudden really, really quickly, like he was moving slow. And then all of a sudden really quickly, he takes my underwear, moves it, grabs my vagina. opens it with his hands and then just like face in it just going to town and I was just like immediately just rolled over like my heart was pounding all I could all I could hear was my heart pounding in my ears and I was just like what was that like nobody had ever done anything like that to me before like it was just horrifying like to this day like sometimes I'll get a flashback of it and that like it literally makes me like sick to my stomach like sometimes I will go and make myself throw up just to relieve the nausea I feel when I think about that. I've been around a lot of

Starting point is 01:54:18 people sexually and nobody has ever handled my genitalia that rough before. And I was I was a child. Like, it's just disgusting. You're disgusting. And I remember like he would wake me up doing that stuff and then he would go and have sex with my mom and it was always like really loud. So it was like he would wake me up and then essentially just make me listen to him having sex with my mom. It was just like really weird. But yeah, so I started having my sister's sleep with me and he would wake me up and I I just always was like, well, at least it's not them. That was just the only thing I cared about. At least it's not them. So yeah. And I was glad that they told me, I wish that I knew back then to tell like an adult, but I just thought what he's doing is normal and I'm the weirdo for

Starting point is 01:55:04 feeling uncomfortable about it because that's how much I didn't trust myself and my own emotions. so I was always just like, you know, better me than them, even if it makes me uncomfortable. And I have no one to tell because according to him, this is normal, you know? Well, anytime you did tell an adult anything, nothing good came of it. Yeah, literally, that too. Like, I didn't have a trustworthy adult in my life. He started isolating us from the family. So, like, we were going to the church.

Starting point is 01:55:30 And I have some great aunts that we would stay with, like, pretty much every weekend. You know, I would be with my grandma or with one of my aunts and stuff like that. But then it became, we're not allowed to see. these people. Not allowed to go to church, not allowed to really do anything except for like, you know, the big stuff, like Christmas or Thanksgiving and stuff like that. While I was away at school, and T had also started school at this point. So we were both at school. And M was still, yeah, too young. She was already potty trained at this point and stuff. But I came home from school and I saw this really weird drawing. Like, I couldn't tell what it was. It kind of looked like

Starting point is 01:56:06 like a carrot. And I was like, what is this? Like I asked my mom, like, what is that? She told me that M had told her that Austin had exposed himself to her. And she was like, in order to get her to prove it, she wanted her to draw it. And that's what that drawing was. Mind you, M is only like three years old right here. And my mom did nothing, absolutely nothing after this. And so I saw that, I saw that she told our mom. And the way that our mom was just so casual about it,

Starting point is 01:56:39 I was, again, it just reinforced this is normal and there's something wrong with me for feeling some type of way about it. And how long did this go on until you're what age? Like the sexual abuse? Yes. Until I was 11. Okay. So, yeah. And also too in this house, I remember there was a time we had like a bunch of his family over.

Starting point is 01:56:59 He was making like, he was a really good cook. I will give him that. So a lot of times people would, we would get together and eat some good food. And we had so many people over that we had to get out like a kid eat table. and I had to sit there with my sisters and again I was kind of pouting because you guys you guys give me the responsibilities of an adult but you won't let me sit at the adult table or whatever I felt like I was a grown up in every way except for the way that I was treated so I was just kind of pouting about it again not I think maybe I was crying a little actually but I was just upset because I wanted to sit at

Starting point is 01:57:29 the adult table that's all it was and my stepdad like came over and kneeled next to me so he's like right in my face and he grabs me by the face and forces me to look at him and he could see that I was mad like in my eyes. I don't think that I glared at him or anything. I think I just looked back at him. But the fact that he could see that I was angry, he just like I could see his eyes just went dead. And he grabbed me by the arm and took me. So the, the dining room where we were, the basement door was right there. Like you can go down to the basement from the dining room. And the stairs were like where there's a little bit of stairs and then a landing and then more stairs kind of going off to the side. So he grabs me.

Starting point is 01:58:09 by the arm and he pushes me down the first few stairs and then we get to the landing and he grabs me by the arm again and he drags me down the rest of the stairs and you can hear my feet just like boom bump bump down the stairs and then he just starts beating the like the shit out of me down there truly and he brings me back up and I just look at all the other adults and all the other adults are just staring down at their plate nobody wants to say anything and then I just sat back down at the table expected to just like as if that didn't happen hello like over and over again the adults around me knew and did nothing once i started sixth grade we moved to a french lick indiana which is about two hours away from where we were previously living i'm not sure why we chose this location again same thing

Starting point is 01:58:54 nice house out in the country just yeah and this was when i started middle school so i'm i'm in sixth grade starting middle school and it was kind of scary but it was also like kind of cool and I like during the tour of the school the guidance counselor is leading me around and she asked me like what kind of grades do you tend to get she was like A's B C's and I just kind of was like yeah A's B C's like just repeated that back to her and my parents were like no you know what happens if you bring home a C and I was just like gulp you know like geez like that's the thing they felt comfortable bringing it up even in front of other people and seeing how scared I could get in the moment. Like, it's really weird. But at the school, I kind of felt like, I felt like I had a decent friend group because previously I was just always,

Starting point is 01:59:40 like at the previous school, I was just always bullied for being ugly. I think I had like maybe one friend the three years that I was at that school. But at this one, I felt I fit in a lot better. There was a group of people kind of like misfits, like, you know, everybody was starting to form their own little cliques in middle school. And I found, you know, a group of kids. that all seemed kind of like, kind of troubled, I'd say, as an adult. But yeah, those were my people and I felt comfortable around them. So I felt like I had a good group of friends. And I liked it there. I liked the school and stuff. But at home, like, everything was exactly the same. Just constantly walking on eggshells all the time. Yeah, just being scared all the time. Not being able to sleep.

Starting point is 02:00:23 Like, that's another thing. Like, my parents, I don't know. I either couldn't sleep or I would sleep like way too much and that's something I still struggle with because my sleep is just hard to regulate because of everything that was going on. And yeah, it's like I was under, I was under so much stress like to go to school, get good grades or else I receive physical violence, come home, protect my siblings from sexual abuse, get sexually abused myself, get physically abused like over every little thing. And I'm cut off from the world. I have nobody to talk to. I can't even, It's not like I can call up my friends or something. The only phone in the house was a home phone, like a landline.

Starting point is 02:01:03 And I'm not allowed to use it. So, like, it was just every day was the same. School, home, dinner, shower, and then go to bed, get sexually abused. I can't sleep. I'm stressed out. Rinse repeat. And I was just under so much stress all the time. And it was definitely starting to show.

Starting point is 02:01:21 I became a lot more emotional. Like, it was like, I mean, like I said, I was, I was sensitive already, but it was like, little things would just make me cry uncontrollably. And my mom was like, why are you crying like that over this? And I would be like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. There's something wrong with the way I'm developing, clearly. In this house, he started, like, coming in while I was in the shower,

Starting point is 02:01:46 just, like, to hang out and talk to me, I guess. And it always made me really uncomfortable. Like, I'm not allowed to talk back or have any kind of attitude, but I felt like I was being passive aggressive. Like he'd be like, you know, what are you doing? He went, showering, like stuff like that. Like, why are you in here, you know? And my mom knew.

Starting point is 02:02:06 Like, like, my mom would see him come into the bathroom and lock the door behind him while I'm in the shower. Do nothing, of course. And yeah, so I had that going on. And it was just difficult because I had no privacy. I couldn't even, you know, like I said, my journals, I couldn't write in. And all this time, I was still writing in a journal.

Starting point is 02:02:26 because I had feelings I need to get them out. So I would still write in my journal, but obviously there were things that I knew I couldn't put in there because they would read it. And my parents would literally read it and write notes and leave them in my journal. Like this isn't a message board. This is my journal and you guys are being- This is your life. Yeah, but they would sit there and read me writing about how unhappy I was, how much I wanted to die and just whatever. And they would be like, I can't believe you hate us so much and whatever.

Starting point is 02:02:55 and whatever. It's like, oh my gosh, like I truly just felt I had, I had no wiggle room. I was suffocating all the time is what I felt like. And for some reason, he started treating me like, like I was his wife. I don't know. Like my siblings noticed it too. Like to this day, we'll talk about it and he'll be like, do you remember when he was treating you like his wife? I'm like, how could I forget, bro? Because it went from treating me like I'm a stupid child and into he's treating me like I'm a grown woman. Like I'm his wife all of a sudden. He wants, he's pulling me into his chair. Like, I remember there was a time he, I walked past him because if I wanted to get to

Starting point is 02:03:31 the rest of the house from my bedroom, I always had to walk past him and vice versa. I could never move through the house without getting past him first. And so I walked past him one day and he grabs me by the arm and pulls me into his chair with him. And he's like, got his arms around me. He's holding me all close. And again, like, this is not normal or, or at least like he only did this at nighttime when he was abusing me. And so for him to do it during the day, like, it was just weird.

Starting point is 02:03:56 It was just really weird for me. And he pulled me into his chair and he put his hand on my pants and he, like, had his hand on my pubs that were like just growing, like truly. And he was like whispering in my ear like, your mom is jealous of you because I love you more than I love her and stuff like that. And I was just like, what? Like my mom is a lot of things, but jealous of me is not one is what I felt like. I was like, my mom acts the same as she always has. you are tripping or whatever, but I just didn't say anything. And I remember my heart was like pounding

Starting point is 02:04:27 and pounding. And I like, for the first time in my life, I was like, can you get your hand out of my pants? Like that was the only, that was the first time I ever asked him to like back off. And he like looked at me, ripped his hand out of my pants and shoved me out of the chair. And I was just like, okay. I don't even remember what I needed out of my room for now. I just went back to my room. I was just like, whatever. And the thing is, Like that whole time, my mom is, we had two living rooms. So she would sit in that one and kind of read and then he would sit in the other one and play his video games. If I leaned forward in the chair like this, I could see her right there. Like this is all happening.

Starting point is 02:05:04 There's not even a wall between us anymore. It's like there's no excuse. Yeah, I think he was just trying to like push a rivalry between me and my mom or something. And I don't know why because I was like, you're just being weird. And like he would also like play footsie with me under the table and it made me extremely uncomfortable. And there was a day he did it in public and I was like, that's too far. Like I was getting closer and closer to I can't take it anymore and I'm going to tell somebody. Like we were at a restaurant and he was like, you know, doing that with his foot.

Starting point is 02:05:36 And I looked up at him like, did you mean to do that or whatever? And he just had like this, you know when men think they're being charming and they get that little smirk on their face? Like, no. So I was like, what are you doing? And he smirked at me. And he was like, I'm playing footsie. with you. And I got up and went to the bathroom and I just cried because I was just like, I don't know, he's doing it in public now. I went back to the table and he went up to go get more

Starting point is 02:06:01 food. We were at like a sushi bar or something. So he got up and while he was gone, I asked my mom to like switch seats with me. I was like, I don't want to sit next to him. He's making me uncomfortable. And so we switched seats and whatever. He comes back. He's like, why did you guys switch seats? And my sister had a habit of like she was young. She just blurted things out. You know, it's going to happen a few times. She just said, oh, Louis said you're making her uncomfortable. And he just gave me this look. Like, I knew I was going to get it when we got home. Like, I knew. Like, he was just so angry and so disappointed. And again, my heart just sank. And I can't eat my food anymore. For some reason, it reminded me of another story. I don't know if this is relevant, but I'll go

Starting point is 02:06:40 ahead and tell it anyway. But there was another time we were at a restaurant and I saw somebody that I went to school with at the restaurant. So I was like, oh, hey, like waving at them, smiling at them and stuff and he leaned over and whispered in my ear, if you don't stop looking at them over there, I'm going to beat your ass when we get home. And I just like, you know, face dropped. I got tears in my eyes and I tried not to look at them anymore. Or anytime I did catch their eyes, like, I would give a little wave, but they could tell something was wrong. So they saw me at school. And they asked like, why were you crying? Like, what happened? And I was just like, I don't know. Like because that's the thing. Like when you feel like you're in the wrong, like if I could make myself not cry, I would. But it's just what it was. And it was just so awkward. Like my people from school never really saw my parents. But when they did, like kids were always like, your stepdad is so scary. Like your stepdad, I don't know. Like he, there's just something off about him and stuff. Like it's a parent to everyone. And I was just like, yeah, I don't like him either. Like that's about it. That's all I could do. And he was just getting really, really, really, really

Starting point is 02:07:43 ballsy and French lick, like, you know, doing this stuff in public. He would bring up the fact that I like masturbate in front of other people, whereas previously it was like, we just never talked about it, nobody ever talked about it. And then all of a sudden, he would bring up things that I would do that only I would know about and he would just like bring it up in a conversation and my eyes would like dart over to him and he would just be looking right at me with that little smirk on his face. And also too, that let me know that he's watching me masturbate. So in this house, There was enough bedrooms for everybody, but one of the bedrooms was converted into his music room. So T and I shared a bedroom.

Starting point is 02:08:21 We had a bunk bed. It was awesome. Love a bunk bed. And then M had her own room. It was that way for like a whole year. And Austin started like he would come into the room and climb into bed with me. And like if I was on the bottom bunk, I mean grown man not climbing up on the top bunk. But, you know, he would crawl into bed with me and spoon with me.

Starting point is 02:08:43 and it would wake me up and then my heart would start pounding, pounding, pounding. And he could feel it, like, because his hands were on my chest all the time, my non-existent chest, I'm 11. And he would feel my heart pounding, and he liked it. Like, he liked when I got scared. He would tell me, like, you know, oh, your heart's beating so fast. It's because I'm here. Like, you love it, don't you?

Starting point is 02:09:04 And I'm just, like, he thought it was more like, I'm excited. I'm like, no, I'm fucking scared. Like, you're being weird. Again, in my brain, I was just like, I have to protect my siblings. So I made him come out of her room. I was like, sorry, girl, we're all three of us are going to cram up in this top bunk so that he can't reach us. And it was so, like, uncomfortable because we, to get us all to fit, we all had to basically, like, sleep with our knees up against our chest, basically, and lay kind of sideways.

Starting point is 02:09:31 And I thought, if he can't reach us up here, then maybe he won't do anything. But I think instead, I just provided a perfect face level of all of our genitalia right there. So I was woken up with him just like moving my underwear to the side and just doing whatever he wanted and just waking me up. And there was a day where he did that. And I don't even know. I like used my hand, pushed him away. Like, again, I never did that. I always just laid there and took it for the most part.

Starting point is 02:09:59 But I was just, I don't know what I felt that day. But I was just like, get off me, bro. And I pretended to be asleep while I did it just like a quick, you know, swat away. and I heard him walk away and then he's standing in the in the like the hallway the doorway the doorway outside the bedroom and he was he started talking and going like you stupid bitch like you're such a fucking bitch like always ruining my fun and and stuff like that and I like piqued open my eyes and I had like this mirror above my dresser that that I could see the doorway and I could see him just standing in the doorway horror movie level scary hello and and and

Starting point is 02:10:38 just going like, you're a fucking bitch, like, you always ruin my fun. And I'm just like, what the hell is he talking about, right? And then he comes back in. He grabs the railing of the top bunk, pulls himself up, and then like slams his fist down on my chest. And it knocked all the air out of me. I sat up immediately and was like gasping for air. And he just left the room. And I couldn't even say anything because what can I say, you know? So I catch my breath. And I look over at my sibling and T is is awake and she's looking at me and I was like did you see that and she was like yeah and I look over at the clock and it's like four in the morning and I'm just like I think this is it like I've got to tell somebody like I just I just didn't know what to do like it was just so uncomfortable

Starting point is 02:11:23 but I didn't know who to tell I didn't know I still didn't even really understand what was happening I just knew that I didn't like it so at some point in school in my health class we we had a class about abuse. And I learned then in there that everything that I had been thinking my whole life up to this point was correct. I'm being abused at home. Not only that, but sexual abuse. And especially the part about oral, like, I was just like, I didn't even know people put their genitalia in other people's mouth. Like, I didn't even know that was a thing. Like, it just, it horrified me. So the same day, I told my friend group at school what was going on. I think at best, some of them were like, that's nasty, that's really messed up, you know? But there was a few of them that did not believe me.

Starting point is 02:12:10 And they were like, I think it's really gross that you would lie about something like that and stuff like that. I get that they're children too, but it hurt me then and it hurts me now. It definitely affected me because now I can't trust my family. I can't trust my friends too. And so I was just like, well, okay, maybe I'm misunderstanding something. So then I dialed it back and kept it to myself again. because the way that the textbook said it was like, go to the police, this is wrong. Like, this is wrong, should not happen. But anytime I told anyone, they seemed to react like it was nothing. So I was just like, maybe I'm just wrong about it.

Starting point is 02:12:45 So I sat on it for a while. I sat on it for so long that that school year ended and another one started. And I remember one of the girls. She was like, do you remember last year when you were trying to convince us you were being abused? Yeah, I remember. you think it's so funny, like truly, you know? Like, I remember telling you I was abused and you saying I was disgusting for it, like whatever. So I just kept sitting on it. And he also, like, at this time, he, like I said, he loved hunting. So he wanted to take me hunting. I was never a

Starting point is 02:13:17 hunting girl. Like, I had been hunting before. But normally when I went, I preferred to, like, pick mushrooms or something like that. I had my own weapons. And they were always really big on, like, shooting guns. Like I said, they had BB guns. They would literally, like, while my siblings, and I are trying to sleep, my parents would have BB gun fights in the house. I'm like, okay, whatever, like, just really weird, but they also had a lot of actual firearms, you know, ranging from shotguns to handguns and stuff, and they were always shooting them, and I was scared of guns, even though I had my own, and my parents would, like, make me come outside and do target practice with them, and I would shake and I would cry while I'm holding the gun, and

Starting point is 02:13:54 you're fucking sissy, just do it, and whatever, I'm scared of guns. And I actually took a class recently for, you know, shooting. And same thing, I'm still scared of them. Like, I just didn't really want to go hunting, but I always went anyway because I can't say no to my parents. And during one hunting trip, we're sitting there and we're eating our little sandwiches or whatever. And he was like, do you know what sex is? And at that age, I had, like, theories, you know, like, you always think you know what it is, but I just said no because I knew, like, I don't, I actually don't know what it is. So I was like, no. And he just, started sobbing, just sobbing. And he was holding me, he like grabbed me, was holding me,

Starting point is 02:14:34 I'm so sorry, you don't even know why I'm crying. And I was just like, you're right. I don't know why you're crying. Like, I'm so confused right now. Honestly, I thought that he was crying because I masturbate so much. Like, I thought he was like, my daughter's a sinner. She masturbates all the time. Like, whatever. That's what I thought. So I thought, like, this is how disappointed he isn't me for doing that. But, you know, now, again, I'm older. I know. but yeah and it was really weird and that's all he said about it and then when we went back in the house I told my mom like Austin asked me if I knew what sex was she was like and what did you say I was like I said no she's like okay and that's about it or like sometimes I would try to initiate

Starting point is 02:15:17 conversations about sex with my mom because I just wanted to open the door so that we could talk about it so like I asked her where do babies come from because they always told me that like babies come from you pray to God like you pray to God tell God you want one and you'll get one and so that's what she told me and I was like no like I was like there's another way I keep hearing all of these other people say there's another way so what is it and she was like I'll tell you when you're older you're not ready for that and it's like if I'm asking then I'm ready for it I think but whatever and to this day I've never had a sex talk like everything I know about sex I had to learn myself but whatever all of this stuff that I've talked about everything all of it is happening all at the same time the isolation

Starting point is 02:15:57 abuse, physical abuse, like, you know, gaslighting. I'm constantly confused. You know, my parents tell me they love me, but they treat me like this. And I was just in a constant state of perpetual confusion all the time, like truly. And I felt lonely. Like, even though I had friends at school, I knew that these people, I can't call them my friend now because I told them that I'm being hurt at home and they don't care enough to do anything, which again, I understand their children. I'm not mad about them today. I just like, I couldn't relate to other kids and just all kinds of stuff. Like, and I never got to do things. Other kids got to do like, like field trips and stuff. Anything that required a permission slip, I very quickly learned how to forge my mom's signature

Starting point is 02:16:36 because I was like, I'm sick and tired of y'all telling me no, like truly. And not giving me any good reason. It's always just because I said so. Stupid. Like, I'm willing to accept a no, but I need an actual answer. That's just the kind of person I am. I don't accept just because I said so. I'm sorry. So when I was in a... seventh grade, there was like this really big dance going on at school and like literally everyone was going. And it was, it was like out of everything that I've wanted to do, like, please just let me do this one thing. I begged my parents for so long. I was like, everyone is going. Even the other kid whose parents don't don't really let him do much because they're like helicopter parents.

Starting point is 02:17:11 I was like, even he's going. Like, please let me go. And they were like, no. And I was like, I will do anything. Like whatever chores I have to do, whatever I have to give up, like, please, just let me go to this dance. I just want to see my friends outside of school. Like, just want. please. And they kept telling me no. And so at 10 years old, I freaking went into my bedroom. I've never heard the word suicide before or the term suicide note. But what I did was I wrote a note to my parents and I said, I told you I'm willing to do anything, period. Left that on the floor. And then in my 10-year-old brain, if I hold my breath long enough, I'll die. Obviously, that's how breathing works. So I'm standing in my bedroom, or I laid down actually because I knew I would fall or whatever, so I just laid down,

Starting point is 02:17:56 held my breath until I passed out. I don't know how long I was out, but when I woke up again, my mom was sitting on the ground next to me, just staring at me, and she had the note in her hand and she just looked, just agitated. And then once I woke up and looked at her, and I, like, you know, sheepishly got up, she just left the room, didn't say anything about it. Your 10-year-old just tried to commit suicide and you don't say anything. The abuse was still going, and there was a day where he he yelled at me particularly bad because he he asked me a question he was like yelling across the yard a question at me and I didn't know he was talking to me and so he got mad that he had to repeat himself and he screamed at me and his eyes just like just evil evil eyes and

Starting point is 02:18:39 it shocked me to my core and it's not anything new like he had looked at me like that a million times before but like I said like I'm I was getting really emotionally unstable at this point and so it just broke me immediately. Like I couldn't breathe. I was sobbing, like almost throwing up. Like I'm crying so hard, which that has happened. Like my siblings would cry so hard they threw up and stuff. And the fact that that's regular is like, anyway.

Starting point is 02:19:06 So I went in the house and I'm crying over this. And my mom saw the whole thing. So she follows me into the bedroom and she sits down on the bed with me. And she's like, why are you crying like that? And I was just like, I don't know. Like, I don't know. I was like, you should have seen the way he looked at me. He looked at me like he was going to kill me and stuff like that.

Starting point is 02:19:22 Or after the restaurant incident where we were playing footsie or he was playing footsie with me, we got home. And the first thing he said to me was like, I thought you said you love me, you bitch. And same thing then. I just sobbed and went to my room. And my mom was like, why are you crying like that? And I was like, he called me a bitch. She went and asked him, did you call her a bitch?

Starting point is 02:19:41 And of course he was like, no. And then she was like, he said he didn't say that. And I'm like, okay, I guess I'm crying like this for no reason, whatever, you know. but it was the fact that I was so emotionally unstable, it was just another nail in the coffin for me. I need to tell someone because I'm, I can't do this. Like, I can't. So right when I was about to tell my mom, his dad passed away.

Starting point is 02:20:01 And then I felt horrible for him because this was a man who would beat the shit out of me for crying because crying is not allowed. All of a sudden, he's a sobbing mess because he just lost his dad. I felt so bad for him. And I was like, I can't tell anyone now because he just lost his dad. like he's going to lose his dad and then lose his family.

Starting point is 02:20:20 Like that's so sad. That's me giving him empathy when nobody has ever given me any my whole life. So I sat on it for a little bit longer. Like it kills me when I think about it, truly. But anyway, I did eventually tell my mom when I did, it was a day where he was gone. And that was rare for my parents to not be home. They tended to like do the errands and stuff while we were at school so that they could always be home with us. So he was out of the house and we didn't all have to go with him for once.

Starting point is 02:20:47 So this was kind of rare. And my mom and I were watching ridiculousness on the TV. And it goes on commercial like every three minutes. So it goes on commercial. And I was just like, I got to do it now because I don't know when he'll come back. And so I just said to my mom, like, I didn't even look at her. I just kind of like spoke to the TV. It was like, do you ever wonder what your husband does while you're asleep? And then she was like, why would you say that? She was like, why would you say that? Like, full body turn. Why would you say that to me? And I looked. at her and she just like the look on her face I just felt like I shouldn't have said that like I felt like she was mad that's what she looked like to me she looked mad so I was like I tried to backtrack I was like

Starting point is 02:21:30 never mind like don't worry about it like truly don't worry about it I was just like it was instant I shouldn't have said that I shouldn't have said that and I was so scared she was like no you can't say something like that and then and then not tell me so then I told her I told her you know he he puts his finger in my butt and stuff. And she was like, she was like, how often does he do that? And I was like, sometimes. Like, I didn't really know what she meant by that, you know? I was just like, sometimes. And she, you know, just got really quiet. She, her face just blank, like, both of my parents just really blank faces. They don't really email it very much. But then she went and got my sisters and pulled them outside, like one at a time, and asked them some questions. And I was sitting on the

Starting point is 02:22:12 couch because that's the thing. Like she never said anything to me. She was just like, you know, I told her and she looked mad and then she went, got up, got my sisters. And I felt like I was in trouble. I was just like, oh my God, like something bad's going to happen. So I'm anxious and I'm sitting on the couch and I'm peeking through the window watching her talk to my siblings and she's got her hands on her hips. Like it's, it's not, it doesn't feel safe to talk about it. It felt like we were in trouble. And so after that, she moved like a mattress or like an air mattress or something into the doorway of the bedroom and then she would sleep on the floor of the bedroom instead of like calling the police just just really really odd so yeah again it just it just reinforced that but she didn't leave him at that point no we we were

Starting point is 02:22:57 still there three months i actually she says it in the letter we were there for about three months or something i understand that she was a stay-at-home mom all this time she doesn't have money she doesn't have she hasn't had a job in years and stuff i understand that but that's not an excuse like it's really not so eventually we we left and we each had to pack up something so each of us only had like a suitcase of clothes and we we were middle class like i said like we had hella toys like i had a hamster we each had you know our own little guitars and and just all kinds of stuff like materialistic things. I know I know that's not, you know, at least we're safe, but I was upset because why do I have to leave my home? Why do I have to leave my friends at school? Why do I have

Starting point is 02:23:47 to leave all of my belongings behind? And so we each just had like a suitcase of clothes and we moved in with my grandma who was living in a two-bedroom house, but the low-income one-bedroom apartment that I live in right now is bigger than the house that we were at, bigger than my grandma's house and five people were in that little house. We were all on top of each other all the time. It was horrible. And my mom, my two sisters and I, we shared a bunk bed. So four of us crammed in a bunk bed. And that's how it was for like a couple years, honestly. And my grandma is an alcoholic. She's been a really bad alcoholic for most of my life. I don't think she's been cognizant since I was really, really young. And so it was just really, really hard to live with her because she would forget

Starting point is 02:24:37 things she's talking about. She would, you know, just pass out. She would start fights and stuff like that. And it was just always really tough. And I felt like, okay, so that's it. We just move out. That's it. I was being told that that's all we could do. And I felt like then why do I still feel like I had this feeling like there's got to be more than this like why I'm the one being punished here I don't understand that and I would I would bring it up with my mom all the time and she would just tell me like there's nothing more we can do you need to get over it like you need to learn how to live with it and stuff like that do you think she kept in contact with him at this point yeah I know she did they were still talking there was a time she even brought him over to the house a couple of times

Starting point is 02:25:21 it's not like you guys moved him with your grandma and that was it with him yeah like I don't know and that was a betrayal too, like seeing him still come around and stuff. And I started self-harming at 11 with scissors. There was these hair scissors. So hair scissors have like teeth, kind of like a saw, as opposed to regular scissors that are just a blade. And so my first time cutting, it was like more like a sawing motion, but I did it.

Starting point is 02:25:50 And I remember I felt like this rush, like, just like it's something I can control. I felt like my blood is boiling and that's like relieving pressure is kind of how I feel about it. I still feel that way about it. I haven't self-harmed in about a year now, which, yay, but like, it is like an instant rush, instant relief. Like, it's what I would imagine drugs are like. And it was very instant. Like the first time I did it, I was just, I can't explain the feeling. It was like almost pride. And my mom walked in on me doing it. She was mad and she dragged me into the bathroom and she was like dumping, rubbing alcohol on it and stuff.

Starting point is 02:26:31 And she was mad. But I was like, she is reacting, though. If I do this, like, she's taking care of me right now. She's nursing my wound right now. So this is how I get her attention. And so that's what I started doing all the time, like all the time because I was addicted to it, but also because I liked when she would react because it proved that she cared about me in my brain. but over time she reacted less and less and less and so I had to start cutting more and deeper

Starting point is 02:27:02 in more places and eventually she just stopped hearing entirely she just did not care it got to a point where she would like roll her eyes at me I've got some pretty nasty ones on my on my thighs they were when I did them they were big enough you could stick your fingers into my flesh and she never took me to get any kind of stitches never never anything she would just roll her eyes scoff at me and we would argue all the time about, you know, the abuse and I just felt it was unfair. Like, anytime she tried to enforce a rule with me, like, you know, any kind of rule, I just had no respect for authority anymore. It's not like I was a bad kid. Like, it's not like I was going out and doing things I shouldn't. I was still a good kid, still making perfect grades. I just wanted to be alone. I just wanted

Starting point is 02:27:47 to cry and cut myself and be left alone. Like, and a lot of times I would just sit in the bathtub and and put my headphones in and just lay there and close my eyes and dissociate to music, which I still do that today. It's really relaxing. I don't know why, but just like float away somewhere else. And that's just all I want to do. So when she tried to enforce a rule, I would retaliate by, you know, self-harming because in my brain, it's like, you'll punish me for this, but you won't punish him for what he did. That's how it felt every single time. It was just another, another reminder of how unimportant I am to her every single time. And she, she, like, tells people that I, that I was doing that to manipulate her, like, to get my way.

Starting point is 02:28:32 It's like if she would have just talked to me even one time, I could tell her it's because I don't think it's fair. I'm being punished for something so tiny and he gets away with nothing for all the stuff that he did that you know he did, you know? So yeah, and I was just a really, really angry teenager. So I started to get like, I mean, I had always been shy and socially anxious due to bullying and my parents just kind of convincing me that people are evil. But once I was heading off to high school, I was like noticing, I was feeling very physical effects to thinking about school. Like a back-to-school commercial would come on and I would get physically sick.

Starting point is 02:29:11 The thought of going to school was just terrifying to me. I had actually started this, I had actually started therapy at this point because, because I was such an angry kid, I had a lot of tendencies to scare my classmates, I guess. Again, it was like I liked the reaction. I was going through a phase where like, you know, my stepdad's not here anymore so I can kind of test the waters and, you know, exercise my free will essentially. and I liked that other kids reacted to certain things that were normal to me, like violence. So, you know, I would say or do something really, really violent or express a violent thought, and everyone would be horrified, and I'm just like, you losers, you have no idea what life is like. Like, you know, stuff like that. And so I liked the reaction, but eventually it got to a point where somebody, a couple of girls went and told the principal

Starting point is 02:30:04 because I, and I appreciate it now. Like back then, I was frustrated. like, why would you tattle on me, freaking snitches, whatever? But as an adult, I'm like, that's the best scenario because I was definitely headed down a homicidal path. I could see it in myself then. So I'm eternally grateful to those girls, and they don't even know. They changed my life.

Starting point is 02:30:25 But I got called to the principal's office, and they called my mom in. And the school had known that I was, like, cutting and stuff. Like, they called my mom. They would tell my mom, like, are you aware that she's self-harming? So my mom would be like, yeah. they're like, oh, are you doing anything about that? Nah, I don't know what to do. Okay, so it's like, whatever.

Starting point is 02:30:43 They kind of had very minimal information about what was going on at home, because it's not like I ever talked to a guidance counselor or anything. I didn't even know what a guidance counselor's job was until, like, last year. I was like, oh, all this time I could have been talking to them. That's crazy. But, yeah, so they called my mom into the principal's office, and they told her, you know, that I had been saying some pretty sketchy stuff, pretty scary stuff. And they were like, you can either take her to therapy or we're going to get

Starting point is 02:31:08 the police involved. And my mom was like, okay, let's get her to therapy. So I started therapy at like 12 years old. And I'm still in therapy today. So I'm very familiar with therapy. But when I started therapy, my mom was always in the session with me. Nobody told me that I had the right to ask her to leave. Nobody sat me down and nobody even asked me, do you want your mom in here? She just was. And so then I was just like, I can't talk about what I need to talk about because she's in here, you know, but I didn't think to express that because I thought my mom had to be. Like, that's the, again, that's the thing.

Starting point is 02:31:44 Like, you're just so used to not having any control over anything that you just don't even think to, to advocate for yourself. But yeah, so she was there. So for like the first year that I was in therapy, nothing really came of it. and she would tell everyone that I treat it like it's a joke. So she would tell everyone that I treated it like a joke and that I didn't take it seriously and stuff, which my therapist would cackle because I love homework.

Starting point is 02:32:09 One thing about me, I'm begging my therapist for homework. Like, I take it so seriously, you have no idea. But like, yeah, my mom was like, no, I don't see the point in taking her because she treats it like a joke and just all kinds of stuff, but I still went. And my therapy was always focused on how can I communicate better? because what I was bringing to my therapist was there's something wrong with me because that's what I believed. So we were kind of working on how can I better communicate the things that I need because my experience is I'm telling my parents what I need and I'm not receiving it.

Starting point is 02:32:41 And so we're like, well, maybe the way I'm communicating is wrong. So we work on that and whatever. Like over the years, I had tried a lot to work on myself. but the reality is when you are in the environment, you're never going to get better. If you're in the same environment, you can do all the work in the world, and it's not going to get better because that environment,

Starting point is 02:33:03 changes have to be made in the environment as well. And eventually I started going to sessions without my mom, and it was great. I could open up more, but like I said, it was always focused on me and what I could change. I didn't really understand that all of this stuff that happened to me

Starting point is 02:33:20 shouldn't have happened to me until I was like 20. But yeah, so nobody ever explained to me that what Austin did to me was bad because he's a grown man. I thought that what he did was bad because he's my dad. And because nobody had explained to me that the age difference is inappropriate as well, I didn't see a problem in talking to grown men because I felt so different from other girls my age. I was like, I can't relate to the girls my age. I have so much more life experience, I think, than girls my age.

Starting point is 02:33:55 So just by experience, I have to be more mature than other girls. And obviously, like, grown men love little girls, don't they? And so I was just a perfect target because I didn't see anything wrong. And I felt like it was better for me anyway because I can't relate with a boy my age. So that was something that all of my classmates knew was going on. Like, I had that reputation of, you know, always messing with an older man. and stuff like that. And my mom would be like, you know, stop talking to him, but that's no different than saying you shouldn't be talking to boys. You're not actually explaining to me why. And so I was

Starting point is 02:34:30 just like, yeah, whatever, fuck you mom. Like, you know, and not like I would respect her authority anyway. But yeah, so I ended up meeting this guy when I was like 14. He was like 23 or something. and from 14 to 18 I was with this one guy and it was because I thought like you know I'm so much more mature and different it's what's what's it called a canon event or something like it has to happen to everyone but yeah as as soon as I turned 18 he I found him talking to other underage girls and I was like why would you do that he was like you just aren't exciting anymore after you turned 18 is what he told me broke my heart I also found out that he was creeping on my, on my sisters, because for a minute, we were living, like, in my mom's house. And he was, like, creeping on my sisters and stuff.

Starting point is 02:35:20 But, and that, that made it really hard for me, like, because I felt like I was like my mom bringing a pedophile into the house. And it was really hard for me to deal with. So for high school, I started to get, you know, like I said, I started to get really sick thinking about school. So my mom actually put me into homeschooling, which I thought was interesting because I had wanted to be homeschooled pretty much my whole life. and she always said no, but I think she could see that this was very real. And so she put me into homeschooling. And it was good at the time, but in the long run, I can say it does make agoraphobia worse. And I do kind of wish that I had the high school experience, but whatever.

Starting point is 02:35:55 But yeah, so at some point, like, we had to go do an interview with CPS. And this was like a couple of years after we had left Austin's already. And so I was like, well, damn, about time. Like, you know. So I go in. they pull me in for an interview. They go, do you know why you're here? And I was like, well, obviously, it's my freaking stepdad, obviously, right?

Starting point is 02:36:15 Turns out, they were there just because of, like, they were just doing, like, a general check because somebody at the school had said that my sister had said something kind of, kind of saw us. So they were just coming to check it out. Like, they did not get any kind of details other than just come check it out. And then all of a sudden, I'm in there and I'm just blabbing away. I was enthusiastic. I was like, yes, finally somebody's asking me what happened. I talked for as long as she would let me.

Starting point is 02:36:41 The whole thing was recorded on camera and on a tape on the table. I remember I was drawing like blueprints of the house and showing her all the different places he would take me. I was just. And you told her everything. Everything. I was ecstatic. I mean, same terminology.

Starting point is 02:36:54 Finger in my butt. She asked me, did it hurt? Which my mom asked me that too. She asked, did it hurt? And I said, only the first few times. And she was like, yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about when I said that. But anyway, the interview lady, I told her the same thing. Finger in my butt only hurt the first few times.

Starting point is 02:37:09 And she immediately picked up what I was putting down. Immediately. After our interviews, my sisters did theirs. I don't know what they shared, and that's for them. But after the interviews, they talked to my mom. And I was only like half listening. I remember I was playing with this little wooden train set or something with my siblings. But she was talking to my mom and saying, yeah, so like a family court,

Starting point is 02:37:32 the only thing they have authority to do is to remove us from the home, but they had already separated. So that's beyond them. She urged my mom to go to the police. She said, you should have gotten her a rape kit, but it's too late now. She was like, but you need to go to the police because we can't do that for you. This is a criminal case and we handle family cases and you need to go to the police. My mom was like, okay, okay, took us home. Nothing. Nothing happened. Literally nothing. I was just like, just so excited. Like I felt like my life was going to change after that day and then nothing happened. And I would ask my mom what happened and she told me like, and there's nothing they can do. They dropped it. They said there was not enough evidence. And, and, you know, like, there was always

Starting point is 02:38:16 a different excuse. I'm just like, you're lying. But I can't believe they didn't come back to make sure she went to the police. Right? Like, but it's Indiana. Their laws are very like 1800s over there. That's crazy. Oh. And in, in addition to the cutting, I was also like just taking random pills. I was a very anti-drug kid, but for some reason I was okay with just making pill cocktails to take just to feel something. And nobody even knows that I did that, like, you know, cutting for attention and also for emotional regulation. But the pills was just for me to feel something. Like, when you're dissociative, I'm like, my body isn't mine. I don't feel connected to my body.

Starting point is 02:38:53 So I just wanted something. And I remember there was this girl in my class. She knew that I was doing that. We, like, were bad influences on each other. We're always doing bad things together. And she gave me some pills because I was just going into the medicine cabinet at my house and just taking a couple pills from every bottle. I didn't care what it was and then just take all of those.

Starting point is 02:39:12 And she gave me some that were prescription. And she was like, I'm only going to give you a couple because if you take any more than that, they will kill you. She was like, these are meant for people with cancer. And I was like, okay, I didn't even know what it was, whatever. Went home and I took them and I fell asleep. And I was asleep for two days. and when I woke up, I was so dehydrated that I was like dry heaving and shaking.

Starting point is 02:39:36 And my mom was like, what is wrong with you? Like, haven't you eaten today? Like, I was just like, I was literally shaking. Like, she gave me a cup of water. I'm shaking it. And she was like, have you eaten today? And I was like, yeah, I ate like, you know, a chicken sandwich. And she was like, that was on Friday.

Starting point is 02:39:50 I was like, what is today? She was like, it's Sunday. So you're telling me I laid there for two days and nobody noticed. Okay. but I didn't even cry about it or anything because at this point I knew it like I just knew of course like anything can happen to me and she's not going to care like I just knew it was yeah it was just always an excuse as to why nothing ever happened one of my uncles asked me one day like what happened he was like I only got little details from your mom because my that's another thing my mom

Starting point is 02:40:18 went and told everybody like there was times I would meet her friends and for the first time and they would give me a big old hug and be like I'm so sorry for what happened to you and I'm just like why are you going around telling people? Like, that's not your business to tell. And also, you don't even have the right story because what you're telling everybody is inaccurate. So my uncle asked me what had happened, and I was just so excited to tell somebody.

Starting point is 02:40:39 And I got, like, three seconds into my story. And then he was like, no, this is why nobody believes you. And I was like, what? He was like, because you keep changing the age. I was like, I haven't, first of all, mind you, this is the first time you've asked me. Like, what are you talking about? So my mom is like, I don't know, and that was pretty consistent in my life too.

Starting point is 02:41:00 Like anytime I tried to tell anyone, they would be like, well, that's not what your mom said. Well, your mom said, I don't care what my mom said. It's my story. I was the victim. So whatever. It was just like a lot. And after that happened, I went crying to my mom. Just like, nobody believes me.

Starting point is 02:41:16 I was just like, why haven't you done anything? I think I'm like 16, 17 at this point. And she was like, trust me, if it were up to me, the whole world would know he's a pedophile. I ran away and moved in to an apartment with two grown men in Indianapolis. I'm still underage, and I'm agoraphobic, so I'm not doing anything. I'm literally just laying in bed and rotting. And it was like during this time that I, like, you know, TMI, but I did anal sex for the first time or tried it anyway. And I realized that something going in your butt is a totally different feeling. And I was like, you know, And I was like, yeah, I'd definitely remember if something was going up my butt.

Starting point is 02:41:57 And that's when I connected the dots. I was raped. I wasn't just, I wasn't just molested because my mom would tell me, like, being molested isn't as bad. Like, oh, he just put his finger in your butt. That's not illegal. Like, okay, whatever that means, you know. So I was like, oh, shit, I was raped. And I knew I couldn't tell anyone because they would tell me I'm just changing my story.

Starting point is 02:42:19 And so I just fell into a horrible depression. Like, I didn't want to eat or anything. I already wasn't socializing. I didn't want to do anything. And how did you meet these two men? One of them was the guy that I was with from 14 to 18. We had met online and found out we were local because it was like one of those local apps in the way. So yeah, we got together and moved into an apartment with his friend. Gotcha. Okay. And his friend didn't know that I was underage because I guess he was like lying to all of his friends.

Starting point is 02:42:47 But I feel like I look young now. I'm like I definitely look like a child then. So when you left and moved in with them, did you ever move back in with your mom? I did. So after our lease was up in that apartment, we had nowhere to go. This guy was not good with money and I didn't have a job because like I said, I was agoraphobic. By this point, I had started posting online and the type of content I make is like cosplay content. So I had started making like a little bit of money, definitely not anything to live off of, but it was nice to have a little pocket change from just playing dress up in my bedroom, you know? So I had that going. But other than that, we didn't have any money. And so we were like, I guess I got to move back in with my

Starting point is 02:43:27 mom. And yeah, my self-harm over time, like, changed. It was around the time that I was moving out of the apartment that I started, like, punching myself. I, like, it started, like, I would just punch my legs. Like, I would get so mad. I would just start punching my legs until I, until I'm too tired to punch anymore. And then over time, it, you know, just got worse and worse. And so I started, like, punching myself in the face when I got really angry. Like, there's one of my teeth. I've broken my teeth. I've popped fillings out before, like, just stuff like that because it'll be like, you know, I come home. And my mom's house was always gross. Like, there was lots of pets. And one of them was a big black lab, like Miss Pris.

Starting point is 02:44:13 And there would be, like, you know, big pile of dog poop on the floor when I came home. And neither of my siblings work. I work and my mom's like just always just like in her bedroom. Like she would always just keep her bedroom door locked and the back door was attached to her bedroom so she could just go in and out. Like we wouldn't even see her for days at a time. She wouldn't even tell us where she's going or anything. Like but anyway, so it would be like just me. I'm responsible for the for the cooking and taking care of my siblings, which I always did that anyway as the oldest. But I would come home and be tired from working all day and being angry from my rapist still walking free and just all kinds of stuff. Come home and see this. And then I'd be

Starting point is 02:44:50 like, why is nobody cleaning this up? Like, I'm not going to clean it up. And at the time, like, I was vegan. So they would say things like, oh, you say you care about animals so much, but you won't take care of a dog and stuff like that. Or they would be like, you're a horrible person because you can't clean up dog shit and stuff like that. Like, just telling me that I'm a horrible person because I don't want to clean up dog shit. That's when sitting there all day. Like stuff like that, I would get so angry sometimes. And I never wanted to hurt other people. Like, that's one thing about me. Like, as angry as I am and as much as many homicidal thoughts I was sharing as a kiddo,

Starting point is 02:45:21 when it came down to it, I'm not capable of hurting a person, I don't think. So I would turn it on myself and I would just start punching the shit out of myself. And the first time I broke a piece of my tooth off, I, like, had it in my hand and I went crying to my mom. And she was like, let me see. So I, like, opened up my mouth and shoulder and it was like all black on the inside and stuff. And she was just like, why are you doing that? I'm just like, I don't know.

Starting point is 02:45:44 I don't know. Like sometimes I would be punching and actively saying like I need help while I'm punching. It's like I have genuinely always felt like there's multiple people in me or something. Like I don't want to really talk about personality disorders because I haven't been diagnosed with anything like that. But it is how I've felt. And so it's like I felt like I was being attacked by myself. And then I'd call out for help and my mom was just like then stop doing it. Like whenever. I'm like, okay. Or like, you know, I found out that that guy was creeping on my sisters and started punching myself because I felt like I brought a pedophile into the house. And she heard me like, you know, going apeshit in there. Because I also would like hit my head against my walls. I also would like, you know, throw myself downstairs and stuff like that. Just I was extremely mentally unwell. Like when I look back at how I was, I don't know how you could watch your child do those

Starting point is 02:46:42 things and just and just fault them for it. Like she put her in the side cord like something because this is not normal. But she walked in and I was like, you know, punching away and she was like, what are you doing? And I was like, I just found out he's a pedophile. And she was like, she like literally made that face like Regina George like face. She was like, so you're punching yourself in the face. Yes, I need mental help. Like I don't know what's hard to understand about that. It was just a lot. So I did move back in with her, I only lasted about a month. After that, I was like, I genuinely would rather be on the streets than this. So I like, I like just went on Instagram and one of my followers was like, I was, because I was always like, when you're mentally ill and you have nobody, I'm on my story bitching about my life all the time,

Starting point is 02:47:31 on my Instagram story. And somebody was like, I have a place you can move in with me. And I was like, if you kill me, you kill me. Like, I genuinely, anything is better than being here. And so I took it. And that's how I ended up in Virginia, actually. So I've been there ever since. There was when I needed to go back to my moms and get the rest of my stuff, because at first I only packed like a suitcase or something, I went back a few, maybe a few months later to get the rest of my stuff. And my mom has this sister from her dad's side.

Starting point is 02:47:59 I'd never met her, and I think they had only met pretty recently before this happened. But I drove like eight hours, six, eight hours. I can't remember which one it is to get to Indiana from Virginia. and they knew I was coming to get my stuff. But when I got there, they refused to let me in, and they were, like, threatening to call the police if I didn't leave. And I was just like, are you joking me right now? Like, I was so, so angry.

Starting point is 02:48:22 And so I just sat in the car for, like, probably, like, two hours. And they eventually let me in to get my stuff. But then her sister was, like, literally just standing over my shoulder, and they were acting like I was going to steal stuff and stuff like that. And I was like, I don't know where this is coming from, because this is so like random to me. Like I get that I was aggressive, but it was always to myself.

Starting point is 02:48:44 I'm not really sure why you're acting like, I'm going to steal. I've never stolen. Like, I don't know what you're doing. But it was just really weird. So I get my stuff. And on the way out, she says, you know,

Starting point is 02:48:55 if you were really that upset about it, you would go to the police. And I was just like, what? She was like, yeah, statute of limitations. That was the first time I've ever heard that term. And that also alludes to my mom is telling at least some truth. Because she was telling other family members, she did go to the police. She went, she went to court.

Starting point is 02:49:16 Like, I have a screenshot. I'll read it. But she claims that she already went to court and all that and it was just dropped. And yet here's her saying, then go to the police. And so that was the first time I heard that term. And that sparked like, oh, if there's something I can do about it, then I'm going to do it. Like, clearly, I was like, I don't even care if nothing happens to him. I just want to try.

Starting point is 02:49:34 So that's that's what I focused on and I think I was like 20 around this time. So yeah and it was kind of kind of difficult because it was across multiple states like because he lived in Indiana. I lived in Virginia. The sexual abuse happened in California. Like it was just a lot of back and forth. And it's really difficult. Like that's the hardest thing about pursuing legal justice is too many people don't want to do

Starting point is 02:50:01 their job. They don't they don't want to go back and forth like that. They don't want to have to do extra paperwork. And it's really difficult, but because I was so like, well, I'm not moving until you do it. Like, and I don't think I'm very adamant or persistent in general. But with this, it was special because I was just like, this will literally kill me if I don't do it. So it needs to be done. And once somebody takes the case and it gets assigned to like a prosecutor or something,

Starting point is 02:50:28 then it's like it started moving without me. Once it was moving, it was moving. How long did it take to get to that point? probably like a year. I'm not even going to lie. Because, you know, just to get in contact across different states and then actually they were able to pull the CPS interview that I had done years before it, because that was another thing. Like my mom was always like, there's no proof, whatever. That interview is proof. So they were able to pull that from years ago. Right. And a child is not going to make up that kind of detail. Exactly. They did that,

Starting point is 02:51:00 but they also wanted me to call him and talk to him about it. try to get him to like admit it admit it yeah that's what i did and it was really crazy like called him and they were like don't get too accusatory but like the first thing i said was like i bet you know why i'm calling like i was like you know exactly when i'm here stuff like that and he tried to be all like i don't i know i did a lot of things whatever and then i was just like no you raped me and i was a child like let's talk about that i was like my sisters wearing diapers and you were doing that to them and he was just like, I'm really sorry about it. Like, I pray a lot about it. I hope, I hope you can understand one day, but I could hear it in his voice. His voice was so monotone. He didn't feel

Starting point is 02:51:41 just like that, just like that. Exactly. I could hear it in his voice. Like, he, he did not feel bad. This is the man who raised me. I know when he feels guilty, this was not it. And so that sent me over the edge immediately. And I'm screaming into the phone like, you know, you ruined my life. You life and all kinds of stuff like it was horrible and and they actually but because he was like yeah I did do that and I'm sorry like that was the confession we got it and so that's that's all we needed they went and got him and then he sat in custody probably like 10 months or something because because he kept they kept trying to get him to just go ahead and plead guilty because they were like we have you saying you did it but he wasn't doing it so so that prolonged the the process as well just you know but yeah and

Starting point is 02:52:28 And then they had to play it in the courtroom, so I had to sit there and hear it all over again. And it was just like, and when you're in the courtroom, like, they don't let you say a lot of stuff. Like, it's kind of like they want you to stick to just yes or no type stuff. Like you're not supposed to really get into detail. And so they were like, what was it like to do that? But I can't say he doesn't feel bad because that's accusing him or something. So I was like, how can I sum this up in just one word? And I sat there for, like, way too long.

Starting point is 02:52:56 And I was just like, it was hard. Like, because I could just hear in his voice. He didn't feel bad. He did not feel bad in the slightest. So before I started the process, because my mom had told me that she had done it in the past, I had already had her blocked. Like, she was no contact for me. But the guy that I was living with that I met from Instagram and he let me move in,

Starting point is 02:53:20 he had her number. Like, so I had him ask her, basically, if the case already exists, Like tell the truth. Does the case already exist and am I reopening something or am I opening a new thing because you never did? That was essentially the question. So he asked like, did you try to do anything about Lillianna's rapist? She said, do anything like what? Take my girls out of a home in which Lily said her stepdad was touching her? No, didn't do that. Cooperate fully with CPS and the state police while they were repeatedly interviewing me and my kids at their office at our home or at the state police office and sales, none of that happened, by the way. No, I didn't do that. Get subpoenaed to court three times and find out each time that the court date had been either rescheduled and eventually canceled for lack of evidence. Nope, that didn't happen either. What the fuck else should I have done? The last court date that was canceled, that was canceled was in August 2014, at which point I was contacted by CPS and told that they tried to take him to criminal court. They don't have authority to do that, because there was

Starting point is 02:54:21 nothing they could do in family court, because I did what I should have and took my kids out of the house. They ended up not having enough evidence to take him to criminal court. I'm over talking about it, arguing about it. I'm over being accused of not doing anything. I'm not caring. I'm sick to goddamn death of being told I'm a worthless piece of shit mother. Nobody's told her that, by the way. Like, she would, anytime I tried to talk to her about it, she would kind of start crying and turn the focus on her. She'd be like, yeah, you probably blame me. You blame me. I know you do. And I would sit there and comfort her. I don't blame you. You're not the one who did it. He is. Because I didn't understand she took part in the grooming as well. So I was, if anything, I was trying to get her to

Starting point is 02:55:01 not blame herself. So the fact that she'll sit there and say that I blamed her is just really odd to me. But I'm sick of being blamed for something that I had absolutely no fucking clue was going on. The drawing, the watching him follow me in the shower. Okay? Like, does Lily not understand that we were all victims, not just her? Does she not understand that the minute she told me he was touching her, my world fell apart. A man I chose to spend my life with. Someone I had been with for almost 10 years would violate my children. She not understand that I chose to take them and leave with nothing. I didn't have money. I didn't have a job. I moved in with my mom in her two bedroom because I couldn't afford to take them anywhere. As far as his as him being her daily rapist, she never said

Starting point is 02:55:40 anything of the sort. Her original story was that he touched her sometimes. So even if I was being touched sometimes, you still go to the police. Like I really don't understand the argument, but, and when she told me she said he hadn't in a long time because I was scared she was mad at me she said he had maybe raped her one time in the in the year and a half we had been at that house so just because it's one time you don't go to the police okay both of her sisters denied him doing anything to them at all I also forgot to mention that before I was I told anyone he kind of knew that I was getting close to telling anyone because we were like arguing and I was just like I'm going to tell somebody and he held a knife up like he wasn't in my face he was like across the kitchen but he held a knife up

Starting point is 02:56:20 And he was like, you tell anyone, I'll bash your fucking face in. And it's like, it's really not that hard to see, like, that an abuser would threaten, especially children. Like, it's just so dumb. Like, like, yeah, obviously we're hesitant to tell you because we're being threatened. Like, it's just crazy. So that's what she said. Oh, his bail was a million dollars, by the way.

Starting point is 02:56:46 A million. I thought that was crazy. It's like, yeah, you can get out if you want, if you got a million. Like, bra. But after the court, because my siblings did testify, which I was really grateful for, I remember when I first started, they didn't want to because they would rather kind of just like move on. And I understand that. I get that, but I am not like that. And it was hard to not take that personally.

Starting point is 02:57:06 But they did choose to go and do it. I think, you know, whatever their reasons may be, but I'm grateful for that. And so my mom was there because she took my siblings there. And I saw her at the airport on my, you know, getting ready to get on my flight. back to Virginia, and I saw her at the airport. And she came up to me, which is crazy, because I've been no contact with her for a few years now at this point. And she came up to me and started talking to me. And I just like stayed on my phone because I didn't want to like, I was just like, you're crazy for talking to me right now. She was like, I'm so proud of you. Like, you deserve it.

Starting point is 02:57:40 Like, I'm so proud of you. Oh my gosh. Like, I was like, you are so lucky we're in an airport right now because I want to rock your shit. Why are you saying this to me right now? Like, after everything, like, again, just perpetually confused. Like, just what am I? Oh my gosh. It was crazy. It was crazy. But the trial was interesting. Like I said, a lot of just yes, no, yes, no. And I think I was on the witness stand for like six hours or something. Obviously, the other attorney, his job is to like make me not credible and stuff. So it was hard to do that. But with stuff like that, you have to just persevere and understand

Starting point is 02:58:16 that they're just doing their job. He used that, that diary. entry. I hate Austin. I want him out of my life. He used that as an arguing point to say that six-year-old me cooked up this plan, this like waiting game, the long game of, you know, accusing him of this because I hated him and just wanted to break my mom and my dad up. And I knew he was trying to hurt me and get me to act out in the courtroom. And instead I just went, no. Because that's, that's what you need to do in that scenario. And I know it's hard, but you kind of have to. It sucks. Our justice system sucks. It really does. But eventually they found him guilty. And at his sentencing trial, the sentencing trial, sentencing hearing, I don't know. We didn't have to fly in for it. It was just done like over Zoom or something or over there, the court version of Zoom.

Starting point is 02:59:09 And my, like we typed in our names. You just self-identify, type in your name when you come into the room or whatever. my mom used his last name to self-identify herself. Bizarre. Yeah. And it's just crazy because you didn't have to put a last name at all. Again, perpetually confused. Like, I don't get it. At his hearing, we were allowed to give our victim impact statements,

Starting point is 02:59:31 and he gave his statement. And again, he just didn't feel bad. And the judge said as much, she was like, the entire court agrees, like you showed zero remorse throughout this entire thing. And he was sentenced to 145 years. Wow. to life. I think that's so funny. Wow. Yeah. He had, I think, six total counts. What state was that in?

Starting point is 02:59:53 California. Okay. Well, that's amazing. That's like the best part of the whole story. Yeah. It was like, it was like for the first time in my life I could breathe. I've never felt so live. Yeah. Which is amazing. I did it all by myself too. Like, geez. And then I sent my mom a long nasty message about like, yeah, I did it. Me and me alone. No thing for you. Right. Like, whatever. Yeah. And so after I sent her that, she sent me this lovely little letter. And when was this? She sent me this in September. I sent her... Of this year. Last year. Yeah, this past September. Got it. And I won't read the whole thing because it is kind of long, but there are some parts. So she says, I wish I would have listened to that little tingle in my head. There were times when I had doubts about him, like when he would be checking on you girls and it would take a while. I would fear so much that he was doing something awful. And so I would go upstairs and check things out. And every single time he was just leaving. the room. Now, do you think you would stay with somebody if you even have an inkling that they're a pedophile? Like, right. Anyway, you really have no idea just how much I wish I would have went with

Starting point is 03:00:56 my first instinct when you told me a little about what was going on. I wanted to just shoot him. Are you sure? Because what you told me was that I didn't know what I was talking about. Again, just perpetually confused. But I didn't. I wanted to be there for you and for you girls and watch you grow up. I also feared you. growing up without your mother and I feared not being able to be there for you. So I forgot to mention like I was in and out of psychords a lot in my teen years because I was like always trying to kill myself. Always, always, always. Like that's the thing about Liliana. She's trying to kill herself. My, my worst attempt, I was 14. I hung myself in the garage with

Starting point is 03:01:38 a chain. And because I didn't know how to tie a proper knot, I think that's the only reason I'm still here because yeah I did it I went unconscious I didn't even fight it because I just I knew I would pass out and and it would be that and I was happy with that I was ready to go I didn't write a note or anything I was just done and I go out and the next thing I know I'm hearing a noise and like the noise is coming from myself I'm it's me and then I wake up and I'm I'm fighting like my body's already fighting and it was probably the most traumatic thing I've ever been through in my life because just the sound like I've never heard a human body make that sound before so I fought to get down I like I swung my body to get my feet onto something I wasn't thinking I could have just climbed

Starting point is 03:02:27 it you know but so I got down and I get down and I catch my breath I found out I had peed I had urinated on myself and I look at the time and it was over half an hour had passed and I was just like how did I not die right now. And so I trudge in the house and I'm making this horrible wheezing sound like I can't breathe normally now. And I just, I didn't even think to look in a mirror. I didn't think to do anything. I went straight to my mom and I told her what I did. Like she was asleep because she slept during the day because she worked at night. And so I woke her up and I told her what I did. And she just looked at me. And then she like looked at the time, got out of bed and went to the bathroom and closed the door. didn't say a word to me.

Starting point is 03:03:14 By the time I looked in the mirror, I looked and I had broken blood vessels all over my cheeks in my eyes. My neck was like purple. And she was like, you're going to have to cover that up, you know? She didn't take me to the hospital or anything. And I didn't know that that's what you were supposed to do when somebody tries to kill themselves, so I didn't think anything of it. I texted this person.

Starting point is 03:03:34 He rode my sister's bus. I was already homeschooled at this time. And so we had kind of texted each other. Like, I wouldn't say we were friends. just knew each other. But he was the only person I knew. So I texted him and told him what happened. And he was like, I don't believe you. Like, if that was true, your mom would have taken you to the hospital. I think it's really fucked up that you would lie about something like that. Like, I just can't take it with the drama with you and stuff like that. And he was like, it's always

Starting point is 03:03:58 something like this. Like, and it's all lies. And I'm like, I'm not lying just because my mom won't won't do what she needs to do. And so he blocked me. And after that, it was like, I just wished over and over that I had just killed myself. And yeah, to this, to this day, like she never said anything about that, nothing, no, no, no, no kind of nothing for that. So for her to be like, I wanted to be there for you girls and watch you grow up. She was never there. Like I said, she, she left for days at a time sometimes or she was just never there, even when she was there, she wasn't there, you know? Yeah. Anyway, I'll continue. I wish I would have taken you girls and went straight to the police then. This is the most frustrating excuse that she has ever given. I didn't because you didn't want to.

Starting point is 03:04:40 You were afraid to. I never told her that. She never asked me and I never told her. And even if I did and I somehow forgot, for years afterward, I begged her to do something. So I'm just like, I'm really confused at how you're using that as an argument. I wanted to protect you from having to go through all that. At that point, I was told by you it had only been some touching. Again, still illegal. It would come down to your word against his word and what happens if they don't believe you? Or what if they believe you and just give him a slap on the wrist? And then you went through all of that for nothing. I wanted to protect you from that.

Starting point is 03:05:12 So you wanted to protect me from the possibility of nothing by doing nothing. I did my best to not let him be alone with you girls anymore. I started staying up all night and going to bed when you girls went to school. If he went to check on you girls, I went too. I'm not sure how long this went on, maybe three months. It wasn't as much as it should have been. I had hoped that with time and help, you would be okay. What help did she give me? I'm so confused.

Starting point is 03:05:36 I did not know the extent of the abuse. I did not know that it wasn't only you, and I thought I was helping you and protecting you. I think maybe I was in survival mode only. Some things are just a blur. I was trying so hard to be strong for you, to be there for you, and to be present. I was heartbroken. He was my husband.

Starting point is 03:05:53 I loved him. He was my partner and my friend. He betrayed me. It killed me. I was heartbroken that I lost a partner in life, who I thought I would spend the rest of my life with. Now, you see in the texts also she did this. A whole paragraph about what it was like to lose him. Nothing about me. Nothing about me. So it's just like, it's clear as day to me. You don't care about me. The fact that you keep trying to convince me you do is just laughable at this

Starting point is 03:06:16 point, truly. I did try, Lily. I really did, even if you don't think so. I did not contact CPS or the police. We all know this. Do we all know this? Because I just read those texts to you. She said something totally different just then. I didn't. not know anything had happened to either of your sisters until several several months after talking about the cps stuff we were all interviewed separately and i wasn't allowed to witness any of your interviews or review them at any time i only remember talking to the police on two occasions again that text and also if she wanted to know what happened she could have just asked that's just me though they didn't think there was enough evidence for a criminal case there was

Starting point is 03:06:52 nothing else i could do from a legal standpoint i concentrated on trying to make you better again where i simply honestly and truly didn't know what to do or how to help you i was afraid trying to talk to you about what happened would make it worse okay every time i did try to talk to you about it you would get angry and upset with me because the only her version of talking about it is telling me to get over it so the things you said to me just broke my heart how you blamed me again i never blamed her until after i moved far far away like you thought i just didn't care i know you were hurting and I needed to be there for you, but I'm also a person, not just your mother. I also have thoughts, feelings, and emotions. There's only so much a person can handle. I hated myself so much.

Starting point is 03:07:37 So this part really irks me because she's asking me to extend empathy to her and understand that there's only so much a person can take. Where was that for me? Everything that she said in this paragraph is the exact same thing I felt and have felt every single day since I was six years old and she knew and would laugh at me for it. So no, I'm not going to give you any kind of empathy. Like you made your bed, lay in it, you're good. How much I let you down, how much you blamed me, it killed me. As long as you're in therapy and getting help, things will be okay, is what I thought.

Starting point is 03:08:09 No matter how much you think I didn't care, I honestly did. I felt like if I did anything you didn't like, you would just hurt yourself. I felt like I was walking on eggshells all the time. I was always in a constant state of alert. No matter what I say or what I tell you, you will always have your version of the truth. So I'm constantly on alert to the point where I suffer from something called hypervigilance. I call it fire watching. It's essentially my brain, the way that it developed was nighttime is not safe.

Starting point is 03:08:39 So once it's dark outside, my brain is wide awake. I require prescription sleeping medication to get myself to sleep because I will be awake literally for days at a time, days. Because I have to go to work, I can't sleep during the day. So you want to talk about always in a constant state of alert. Like, talk to me when you have sleep issues for 20 years, you know? Like, I don't want to hear it. Again, it's just everything she's claiming to suffer with is stuff that I've suffered with my entire life.

Starting point is 03:09:09 Like, she can suck it up, truly. I have never, ever, ever wanted to hurt you. I wasn't trying to lie to you, dismiss you, or gaslight you. I have never said I did nothing wrong, though. I hope one day you can find it in your heart to forgive me. I'm proud of you for getting the justice you needed. I should have tried harder. It's confusing.

Starting point is 03:09:28 And this is why she's no contact. I can't, you can't talk to somebody like that. You just can't. What can you even do? Like, what can you even do? That's a level of delusion that, like, I will not understand. Right. And then also, too, I brought up the context with my family

Starting point is 03:09:45 because after we were away from Austin and we started integrating back into our family, you know, all these, all these Christians, really devout Christians versus me. Like, and I'm, you know, at this point I had like shaved my head. I got piercings. Like, I was very like, don't talk to me type of, type of teenager. And so everybody knew something had happened.

Starting point is 03:10:06 And then my mom was blabbing about it and stuff. But everybody knew this was going on, but they were very like, we'll just pray to God about it. We'll pray that you find healing and that he makes better choices. Nobody ever said anything about police. Like, I wish people understood agoraphobia doesn't just happen from one experience. I cannot stress enough that everybody, every single person in my life, up until I was like 20 years old, knew what was going on and did nothing. I can't stress it enough. And so I had to go no contact with everybody.

Starting point is 03:10:42 I can't, you can't say you love me and then ignore the things that are happening to me. You just can't. And it hurts me because I want a family. family, we all do, you know? I mean, no one even made the effort to talk to you. Yeah, literally, nothing. Like, they only know what my mom told them. And even then, it was just like, well, let's pray about it, you know?

Starting point is 03:11:01 Like, okay, just whatever. So I found essentially a checklist used by people who check on children. This is from the Delaware state courts. And it is common elements of child torture. It's broken up into, I think, four different sections. There's deprivation of basic needs. this is things like limiting food, limiting water, limiting access to others, cutting you off from your family and your friends, limiting access to personal hygiene. Oh, there was one really crazy

Starting point is 03:11:32 thing. Like he, Austin wouldn't, we were only allowed to use three squares of toilet paper. And I felt like he was only enforcing that so he could stand in the bathroom and watch us. But in researching child torture, I found that that one was common. And I was like, I've never heard of anybody doing that before that. But that falls under that. And it took a toll on our hygiene. Like our mom started to notice. And you know, but that was a whole thing.

Starting point is 03:12:02 It's crazy. But yeah, that falls under this too. And then we also have physical abuse. Any kind of bruising, bites, you know, physical abuse is pretty obvious. And then psychological maltreatment, I found that my parents check off every single box on that. This is things like humiliation, exploiting, threatening, isolating, things like that, things that affect the child psychologically. And then there's sexual abuse. All sexual abuse falls under child torture, all of it.

Starting point is 03:12:32 So, yeah. And that's a whole checklist. Like I said, it's Delaware state courts. So if anybody wants that, I think it's really handy because abusers love to gaslight you and say, that's not abuse. That's not bad. If you have the link to it, send it to me so I can resource. that as well. And also too, I have tried to pursue legal justice against my mom, at least for failing to protect me for sexual abuse. I listen to a lot of true crime because I listen to it,

Starting point is 03:12:57 read it, and watch it because I'm very interested in the psychology behind why people harm each other. I think I'm searching for an answer that makes sense. I haven't found one yet, but, you know. Some sort of a most like closure or understanding. Yeah, something. But through through listening to it, I've heard a couple instances of mothers being charged as well if they know their children are being abused and they don't do anything. So I was like, oh, I didn't know I had that option. So I went and tried to do that this past September. Actually, it was on my birthday. I remember on my birthday. I called and tried to do it. They told me that the statute of limitations for something like that failing to report sexual abuse of a child is only two years. And also, it's not from when

Starting point is 03:13:38 the abuse was disclosed. It was from when the abuse started. Which means I have to, had until I was eight years old for somebody to call out my mom for not doing anything. And I was like mad at the at the officer. I was like obviously I know you don't make the laws, but like that's fucked up. Like I was a child and that's messed up and you know it is. Like so there was nothing I could do on that front at least. And I think I think that's weird that needs to be changed and maybe one day I'll be the one to change it. But that that is just like it's 2026. Like what do you mean? So, but yeah. And also, too, I think a lot of the notes that I brought for today are, were meant for my mom. Like, I don't have to, I don't have to sit here and give you, you know,

Starting point is 03:14:19 say, abusing children harms them negatively and affects them later in life. Here's my source as to why. I don't have to say that to you because you're a person with common sense. I'm sure everyone else is too. But I just always feel the need to like, this person with a PhD says doing this to children is wrong because growing up my mom was always just like. Well, you know, and that, and the, and that's the thing is, I think at this time and in general, the only way and the only sense you can make of it is that she isn't all there mentally. She doesn't have common sense. Because to want to be with someone like that in general, with everything, being racist and torturing animals and whatever else, it's like goes already or something. Like, you have to be

Starting point is 03:15:04 a very specific type of person to be with something like that. Like, you're a weirdo, babe. Like, sorry. And then your own blood. your child, the innocence of a child, even the things that she partaked in, like, you know, torturing you, making fun of you. To call any child, let alone your own ugly, I mean, that is setting someone up for failure, in my opinion. I mean, we already, look, like, obviously we can all sit here and say, it's not about what's on the outside, but, like, that is a huge thing.

Starting point is 03:15:38 We're human beings. And it breaks my heart to hear that anyone. one would do that to a child, putting a child through fear, knowing what has, whether she knew in the moment, whether it was, you know, she was eventually told to not fight the death like you did for yourself, these to me are all signs of somebody that's not well. She's not all there. And unfortunately, like you said, it's like it sucks that you feel like you have to bring out this, this proof and these notes to be like, this is not right and she still doesn't get it. Like, there's, still an excuse. There's still manipulation or whatever it might be. But, you know, at some

Starting point is 03:16:18 point, you have to realize, like, it's not even worth you knowing. Like, and it's, you might not ever actually feel that way. It's so much easier said than done. Because at the end of the day, that's supposed to be your mother. Yeah. But at what point can we allow ourselves to stop putting the energy into those who don't deserve it? Right. Right. And that's, that's why I'm no contact. I understand and no contact doesn't work for everybody, but I definitely encourage if somebody, and it doesn't even have to get as bad as mine was, it's somebody who repeatedly ignores your boundaries,

Starting point is 03:16:53 oversteps them, makes you feel terrible about yourself, and makes you upset all the time, makes you feel like you can't say or do anything right. Just get rid of them. I don't care if they're blood. Like people who love you don't treat you like that, and I stand by it.

Starting point is 03:17:08 And I wish that I could just leave, my mom in the dust, but every single day she affects me. I have, I have like a miniature her in my brain constantly criticizing me, reminding me why I'm a failure all the time. Anytime I go through any kind of hardship, it's just like I can hear her just going, this is why you're worthless. Like, this is why, this is why you should just kill yourself and stuff like that. And that's the unfortunate part is, is that that's probably so common and normal, because that, I mean, that was ingrained into you. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:17:43 It's like to a certain degree, yes, you are who you are in your own person, but you still have the environment that's kind of like embedded in you, at least still at this point. You're still so young. So it's like how you're not, you know, it takes time to almost break those patterns and break those cycles within your own mind. But, and obviously not that it means anything coming for me because I'm just a stranger, but you, first of all, no one deserves that, you know, and unfortunately, I don't know why. I don't have an answer why certain people are dealt the cards that they're dealt. You know, like that wasn't your choice, obviously. And it's heartbreaking and it's sad, but I like to think that people are dealt those cards that can deal with it. And I don't say that harshly. I say that in the sense that you were able to fight for yourself and for fighting. I definitely see it that way. Fighting for yourself is ultimately fighting for others as well. You were able to push through.

Starting point is 03:18:41 and get to where you are now to share your story because there are so many people that never get there or they just want to push. It's easier for them and makes more sense to them to just block it out, push it to the side, understandably so. But you are so beautiful and so worthy of everything

Starting point is 03:19:02 that this life has to offer. Thank you. And never let, whether it's your blood or a random human, whoever it is, I don't give a shit. never let anyone or anything define your worth, only you can do that. And you have to remember that, yes, maybe you weren't taught and didn't have that control as a kid because what do we know as a kid? Yeah. But now you're able to have that control in your life and take that back. Yeah. And I'm definitely still learning it. A lot of times I'll accomplish something. Like,

Starting point is 03:19:31 I thought I would be dead by 18. I remember on my 21st birthday, I went to the bar for the first time and I was like, I'm sitting at a bar, like, legally. And I just cried because I was like, I never thought I'd see the day. I never thought I would be able to work full time or drive a car, but I do both of those things. I never thought I'd be able to live on my own. I live alone. And every time I accomplished something, it's such a complicated feeling because it's like I'm proud, but I'm also so heartbroken because, like, why did I ever think I couldn't, you know?

Starting point is 03:20:06 Right. Because that's the people, the people that you look to as your parents told you you couldn't. Yeah. But you did. And that's not only is that for yourself, but that's a fuck you to them. Yeah, for sure. Because look at you now. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:20:20 Those are weak, miserable, disgusting people. They shouldn't even be considered human beings. Yeah. And they're not, honestly. Like, they're monsters. Yeah. I do call them monsters. Like, whenever I save my mom's name, I'll just put her name like in quotes.

Starting point is 03:20:35 And I had somebody like, they were like, why'd you put her name in quotes like that? And I was like, because it's a monster wearing her skin is what I said. I don't see her as a person. And somebody that does nothing, to me, is just as bad as the person that's doing it. A thousand percent, honestly. And that's a big reason why I wanted to talk about it, because, like I said in the beginning, all the time I see people leave it to the mother. That's how abusers get access to children. They find women who don't care all the time.

Starting point is 03:21:01 Weak, don't care, turn a blind eye, whatever it is. Yep. But you are so strong and it is such a powerful thing to be able to take your power back, share your story in your own way, in your own version. You know, you have full control of your story. This is your story. Yeah. And there's, I would say obviously right now, a huge part of it is negative and sad and

Starting point is 03:21:29 heartbreaking. But I truly believe that you have the power to. transform that into something that can not only reinvent yourself, like almost give your younger self everything she should have gotten and everything she deserved, but also so many other people. Like, who knows what you could go on to change by spreading your story? And that could change so many people's lives. Like you said, people listening, whether it changes their lives, make something in their head be like, wait a second, this isn't normal stuff.

Starting point is 03:22:04 or I can get help or I should get help. She could speak out. I can speak out. Yeah. Whatever it might be. That's another thing about myself. Like I find it very hard to advocate for myself. Like somebody could mistreat me today and I still would treat them with kindness.

Starting point is 03:22:17 But if somebody mistreats somebody I care about, I'm on them. Like I can advocate for other people like it's nothing, truly. And I think that's special. And I do agree that this has, I do feel like this had to happen to me in a sense because like he couldn't have picked a worse victim. I've done nothing but talk about it, you know? Somebody else might not have made it out alive. Exactly.

Starting point is 03:22:41 And you have those moments. Exactly. So I think it had to be me. And honestly, like, another thing too was I thought that he did what he did because he loved me. Like, I thought it was something special about me. And then I learned that, like, pedophiles can abuse up to, like, 100 kids in their lifetime. They don't stop. They just change victims.

Starting point is 03:23:02 And so I was like, yeah, I need to get him. I need to get him now because I knew that he had access to other children in his family. So that really motivated me as well was just he could be doing it to somebody right now. So, but, yeah, yeah. So I don't really talk about it much on my socials. I like to, but, you know, the internet can be kind of mean sometimes. But yeah, so thank you for sharing your platform with me and giving me a safe space to do it because I trust your audience to be very kind.

Starting point is 03:23:33 I typically see them being kind in the comments and stuff. And yeah, and also, too, I want to say about therapy, normalize going to therapy. All the time I see people say, what's it going to do just for me to talk about my problems? There's so many different kinds of therapy. There's more than just talk therapy. I personally do cognitive processing therapy and dialectic, I don't know, something, behavioral therapy. I don't know the D word, I'm sorry, but. And there's EMDR therapy.

Starting point is 03:23:59 There's all kinds of therapies. so many kinds. And the therapist themselves, I go through therapists like, you know, and the one I have now, I love her. I've been seeing her since I was like 19 or 20, and she changed my life. Therapy is really important for everyone. I don't think you need to go through something nearly as traumatic. That's something my sisters, neither of my sisters went to therapy because they use me as a frame of reference. And it's like, you can go to therapy for any reason, even if you're just, you know, it could be literally any reason and you don't even have to have a reason at all. You can just go. If you don't like your therapist, get a new one. And that goes for any provider,

Starting point is 03:24:35 you know, your doctor, your psychiatrist, anyone. And there's so many different kinds of therapies. So there's so many different ones to try and just find something that works because I do think therapy, I do think the average person could benefit from therapy. I think everyone could, everyone. So normalize therapy, normalize changing therapists if you don't like them. And normalize calling out parents who mistreat their kids in public. And sharing your story. And having the confidence to do so. Yep.

Starting point is 03:25:06 And cutting people out who treat you badly. Boundaries. Yes. Yep. And, um, yeah.

We're All Insane - R*ped by My Parents Until I Was Mute

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