We're All Insane - Suicide Witness Survivor

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Guest Briar, describes what it is like being a suicide witness survivor. Losing a loved one, particularly a boyfriend, who takes their own life is an incredibly traumatic and distressing experience that can leave a lasting impact on the person who witnessed it. Witnessing this tragic event may cause one to go through a range of emotions and reactions, each of which is a unique response to a profoundly distressing event. It's important to approach this topic with sensitivity and compassion, as there is no one-size-fits-all description for how someone might feel or react. Briar's IG & TikTok: briarrosesings If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, please fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 or send an email to [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. Hi, my name is Briar Rose and I am a suicide witness survivor. So I met my boyfriend in college and then like four years later I witnessed his death over the phone and he died by suicide. So I guess I'll just start at the beginning, a very good place to start, as I say. So I met him. I said I met him in college but really met him when I was in high school auditioning for colleges because I was auditioning to be a musical theater major.

So I'm from L.A. And I flew to Texas to audition for this college there. And at the time I had a boyfriend, but I met this guy and his name was Lance. And he just like shook my hand. He had these like piercing green eyes. And like I swear my heart like dropped all the way to my stomach. And it was just like this instant like, oh my gosh, he's really cute. And like later I found out when we were talking about when we first met, I thought he thought the same thing about me.

And so we met at the dance call at our audition for our university that we both got into. And then we met again later when we had like started going to college. And I could kind of just, I have like a sixth sense for people who are sad and depressed. I just like have a big heart. And so I could kind of tell that he was down one day. And my friends and I used to go to this place called Fort Imagination. it was like a kid's playground that said fort imagination on it and we just play a bunch of games and stuff on there

just be like goofy theater kids together and so everyone was like let's go and my friend Shelby invited me and I could like see him just like sitting in the corner and like that was like when our friendship like really began because I was like hey like what's up how are you don't look too good and he just like opened up to me and like I feel like that started our friendship

because like we are just like the way we were was just very much like a supportive network for each other. Like we were just like down. We were like there for each other when we were down and like there for each other when we had big wins and stuff like that. So that's kind of like the main time

that I met him. And then we became very close just by nature because there's only like 12 people in the theater program that I was in. So all of us were just good friends. Yeah. So he was a great fun friend of mine. So I guess I wanted to establish first

that we were friends. for the first time. We were friends first before, like, we were, like, anything else. And how long were you guys friends for? Well, that's the thing. We were, like, friends for three years, but there was a part, there was, like, a section in that when we weren't friends because I had to set some boundaries with him. But I still very much, like, loved him, but just from afar.

Right. But I'll get to that in the second. Okay. Because the first, like, so he has a, he had a history of, like, suicide attempts. even before we got to college, we were in our acting class and we had to do like a monologue that we wrote about us and it was about like a suicide attempt he'd had. So I knew that about him.

And there was a part of me that always liked him but was like kind of just wary because of that. And also he was a bombastic personality. And I like felt just a little embarrassed to like that. And he was just like really out there as a person. So I was like, I just kept my distance. And I'm the type of person when I like somebody, I just like sit on it. I don't do anything about it.

So I didn't do anything about it for like three years. But one time, so we had this group chat for like the 12 people that I mentioned that were in my theater group. We had a group chat. And then one day Lance just texted help. I'm in the dance room. And so. In the group chat. Yeah.

And so like we all like we're eating at the cafeteria and we all just like a couple of us just walked over there. And then my other friend Gabby walked over there. and she walked from somewhere else, so she got there first, and she just found him, like, lying in the dance room floor, and he had, like, swallowed a bunch of pills, and he had, like, thrown them up, and he was, like, kind of half-conscious.

So she went and got a professor. I think maybe she called 911, I can't remember, but we all got there, and I was, like, imagining the worst. I thought maybe he had hung himself or something, but he was just lying there and was, like, kind of semi-conscious, so I kind of just, like, held him and hugged him while we waited for the paramedic. to get there and then they got there.

And we weren't to a religious school, so we all just prayed for him and stuff like that. So that was really hard and sad just because it was like my first encounter with something like that. I just had this innate love for him from the beginning, so it really hurt when that happened, and I just was crying, I just didn't understand it.

But basically that happened, and then that was near the end of the school year, and we were like, I'm sorry. You're right. We were talking over the phone and texting over the summer just, you know, I was just being friends and being supportive and being, like, helping each other. Because I had my own issues with depression and stuff too.

And so, but I remember getting, like, really exhausting just because he was a lot to, like, help. And he was a lot to handle in terms of his emotions. It's very emotionally dreaming, I think, because you're not only dealing with your own life in your own emotions, but when you're dealing with somebody that also has depression and also has their own battles that they're dealing with, it's almost like if you're a really nice, caring person, you take that on yourself. And it's like you can't, we can't juggle. There is definitely like codependency there where you couldn't like blur the lines between my emotions and his emotions. Right. Which like comes into play as a big factor when we date like later.

But yeah. So we came back like our sophomore year and we, we were still friends and stuff and oh my gosh I totally forgot about this whole part let me get ready to tell the story so like we were just like hanging out a lot and like we like cuddled

we were walking around campus and we just like sat on like some steps and we're just like kind of chilling he had his arm around me and like kind of like cuddling kind of because you can't really cuddle on steps but you get what I'm saying and then he literally like

asked me he's like what do you like to do do you want to go on a date And I was like stone cold because I freaked out. And I was like, I like to do nothing. I like to stay home alone by myself. And he was like totally shut him down. And I was like, why did I say that? It was like the most monotone voice too.

But he wanted to date. And I was like considering it my sophomore year because like the feels were developing. But then what happened is like we were talking about dating or something like that. We were texting about it. And I don't remember exactly. exactly what happened, but basically I, like, I think I said no to it or like something, there was some, it might not have been about dating, but it was some like discourse that we had

that was like a bit of a spat. And then like the next, like, I think my friend said that he found him in that same dance room, like sitting and sleeping next to a noose. And so like it felt this like it felt like this really bad like cause and effect where I was like oh I don't want me in my romantic relationships to be entangled in like this suicidality and I don't want for you to think it's okay for me like rejecting you to be an okay reason to like just sleep next to a noose in a public place and I texted him about it and I was basically like why did you do that was because of what happened between us and he was basically said yeah and I was like like that's I mean I know I asked the question but like you should have been like not put the

blame on me and so I remember talking to my therapist about it and I was like hey I'm not really sure that I want to be friends with him anymore because or be a part of his support system um because I just don't feel comfortable with that and that was the crazy thing too is that like after his first attempt, our freshman year, he, like, went to, like, a mental hospital, and they, like, required him to have a support system and, like, make a list. And it was me and my friend Christian who were on that support system. And it was this weird, like, sense of, like, pride that other people had for us that, like, we were on that support system. They're, like, oh, look, they're, like, going to be really good people and help him through all his troubles and stuff,

like from just people, like, not my peers, but more, like, I don't know, just, like, the professors in my community. I could be reading it wrong. But, and, like, from my therapist, too, of just, like, this is great. Like, she's going to be involved. And I just wish that someone had, like, sat me down and been, like, this is, like, to prepare you for what it means to support a suit. Heavy. Yeah, I'm 19, you know what I mean?

Like, you have to tell me what it means to support a suicidal person. And, like, no one, like, from the hospital or anything, like, went over with me, like, any boundaries or guidelines that could have with this, you know what I mean? And so, like, looking back on that, I get kind of, like, upset and angry. that like I didn't get that type of like support for myself too. And it's also hard because it's like how are you supposed to set that boundary when you view this person as a good friend of yours and somebody that you care so deeply about? It's like very very hard to do both things.

Yeah for sure. I know. Yeah. And that was the thing is like when I set that boundary of like not being his friend, I still very much like deeply loved him but from a distance. And it's not like it's somebody that you had no history with or that you didn't know. So it makes it very difficult to separate that. Yeah, for sure.

And I think that's what's so hard about being like a suicide witness survivor is like witnessing that and like not taking it on as your own darkness. You know what I mean? But we'll get to that later. But yeah. So basically he had like his, so he had a second attempt again, our sophomore year on the same time. I actually, oh yeah, I do remember how this one happened. and he basically took a mixture of NyQuil and sleeping pills, which acts like meth in your body or something.

I think that's correct. And it was like an overdose, a drug overdose essentially. Would that be correct? I don't know anything about drugs. I don't either. And I had went home for spring break, and then I had been dealing with a lot of issues at my degree and wondering whether or not I was going to get to graduate with my degree.

And so it was really nice to come. come back from like, but it wasn't really nice, but it was really nice to have a nice break. And then I was just really angry at him because I was like, I come back from a break and then this happens. And like, I was dealing with all these questions about whether or not I was going to get a degree and I was feeling depressed and stuff. And then I came back from my break and it was rejuvenated. And then like my friend Christian, who was on the support system, found him in his dorm room. And like this time it was like more serious because the first time he swallowed pills and threw them up, right? And this time it was like,

no one can find him and they hadn't heard from him because it was the first day back at classes and he wasn't around. So it was like Christian, my friend hadn't found him, he would have just died. And like my professor was with Lance when he was at the hospital the second time and she felt like a lump in his arm. And she was like asking the doctor like, what is this lump? And basically when he took the combination of those NyQuil and the sleeping pills. He, like, fell off the bed, and he, like, got, like, he got something similar to, like, what, like, soldiers get in the field, like, when they get, like, shocked from, like, a really hard blow.

And so, like, he could have lost his arm, essentially from, like, the way he fell. And, like, it did something to his muscles. And so he had this, like, weird, like, contraption on his arm after he got, like, he had to get surgery on his arm to fix it. And he had this, like, giant scar that was, like, all the way of. up from like the wrist to like the forearm and he had to get like a contraption to like help with like the nerves and like movement yeah and like it was just hard because like he was really bumbastic about it again he's like oh my gosh I almost lost my arm like almost bragging about it

um and like we were in a dance class we're always in a dance class in this story but uh and he was just like showing people showing it off to people and stuff and we were like you almost lost your life bro like not just your arm. And so... What would he say about that? Did you guys ever say that to him? Or you were just thinking it? Like, you almost lost your life.

Yeah, he literally said, like... Because I got dinner with him to basically tell him. Because when I had, like, stopped being friends with him, I didn't really tell him that. I just, like... Distanced yourself. Distanced myself. And then, like, with his attitudes afterwards,

I was like, this and this hurts too much to be your friend if you're going to keep doing this. and like also you can't be so bombastic about this. And I was just kind of like, he's like, well, it was kind of cool. Almost lost my arm, right? I was like, no, you almost lost your life. Like you almost died. And I was like crying at this like dinner that I had with him because I was like,

I love you and like you're my friend. And I can't be your friend anymore because like it just hurts too much to see like someone I care about not believe that they're worthy of love. You know what I mean? And so like I just remember feeling like, really angry at him because like he just was so dismissive of what he had done you know and I and it's a fine balance and I don't want anyone to like get angry at me for like playing those ways to him and like you know not supporting him after he went through that but there is like a sense of protection that you need

to give yourself to those things as well yeah would he have a reaction when he would see you crying uh or it was just dismissive I think it was more just like almost again that bombastic pride were like oh look this girl cares about me so much and like he had gotten like a girlfriend um like the day after his suicide attempt this girl started dating and him started dating and i was like and he had told me later he's like yeah i was kind of hoping you were jealous and i was like that's just like not the attitude you should be having yeah when you're going through something so serious he opened up to me a lot about his high school girlfriend and how he felt like bad for like cheating on her and like mistreating her and just like he became a person of faith after college or after high school and so he felt like

all the things he did with her like sexually like weren't okay and he was like feeling really guilty about that. Yeah so we like talked about that a lot but that's pretty much all I'd want to say about like his past. Yeah his past yeah so yeah basically we weren't friends like actively we talked a little bit and stuff and were cordial to each other because we were like in the same theater program with only like 50 students in the program. But like probably fall my sophomore year to like spring my junior year.

We were cast in a show together so I kind of think that's why we started being friends again. And we both, I think we bonded over the fact that we didn't like the show we were casting because it was James and the Giant Peach. And it was just like, I don't know if I feel bad if my professors hear this. I'm so sorry, Don and Adam and Donna, because I love them, but I just was not a fan of that story. But I remember like one time we were like in my car and we were just screaming at the top of our lungs. I'm Anna Garcia, host of True Crime News, the podcast.

Every week we bring you in-depth coverage on cases making headlines as well as those that go under the radar. Tune in for murders that defy explanation, mystery seeking exploration, and shocking secrets that will leave you breathless. Each week we honor the victims by going beyond the salacious in our search for justice. Crime never stops, and neither do we.

Listen to true crime news available now wherever you get your podcasts. We hate this show! Like, screw the show! And like, it was just a good time to get to know him again because it was a lighthearted show. So it was like, nothing too,

serious. It was like a positive moment between you guys. Yeah, for sure. And it was like, it was also one of those things where I had just like liked him since I first saw him. Like I said earlier, like my heart like dropped to my stomach when I met him. I just thought he was like so cute. But I was also just so afraid to it because he was just like a weird dude. Like he literally would like to show off, he would be like, oh and just like literally rip his shirt off like in public like around our friends as a joke. Like he was just like that kind of character. And like we all loved him for it. But we were all like, whoa, this. guys a lot.

So, yeah. But I remember we were just, we just hung out a lot during that show and basically we started like having a thing. So we went to this place at my school called Jacob's Dream. And it's a story from the Bible about when like this man Jacob wrestled with God and like the angels or something like that. So it's like this really cute like area. It's got like this sculpture.

of like this man climbing up a ladder with like angels around him and if there's like a watery place by it and there's grass and so we're hanging out and of course it's like after rehearsal ends and rehearsal ends at like 11 o'clock at night and like nothing good happens

after 11 o'clock at night and so we're just talking and I'm being all flirty and I'm like oh my goodness is Lance and I was like man I'm about to be like I'm about to be a senior

because it's our spring semester I said to him I was like I would really regret if I, like, graduated college and never kissed you. And then, like, he kissed me that night. And so, like, after that, it was just, like, a snowball of just, like, getting to know each other and, like, me doing these mental gymnastics to be, like, I can't date this guy. He has all these red flags.

And, like, he's so weird. And, like, dyes his hair rainbow colors. And, like, is so, like, outspoken and out there. But I basically, like, strung him long for, like, two months, which is, like, pretty terrible. But I did that. And then we got cast in a show as like a boyfriend and girlfriend. And so like that wasn't helpful to my case either of not dating this man. But yeah, we went on a couple of dates and he was really cute. He was like, he was like, can you just like be my girlfriend for a day? And he was, I was like, okay, sure. And he's like, I'll just take you the zoo.

and we did this cute date. And he, like, made me, like, he's like, I'm really going to make you dinner. So he made me, like, these wings because his family was really good at barbecue. But, of course, like, they all fell out in the oven. And then, like, we tried to make a cake together. And he, like, dropped the eggs everywhere. It was just, like, it was a hot mess express. But it was really cute.

Do you think his mental health was any better during that period? I think it was a lot better during that period because he had, like, two attempts. and he didn't have an attempt for like two years until the final one when he died. And I feel like at the beginning of us dating, it was like a lot better, but then as we started getting more serious, both of our mental health went down.

But yeah, I don't have any vivid memories of him being super depressed during those times. Like I can later when we started dating my senior year, like officially. But I feel like we were like, good match for each other at that time. And he was just excited to be a senior and excited to graduate and all that stuff. And then like once we became seniors,

like the reality of it started hitting him and stuff, you know? But basically we didn't like make it official and then we came back. And it's actually kind of like really sad because his best friend was like a girl and it was like totally a potonic.

So like no like cheating or anything there. but she was on a motorcycle ride with her boyfriend at the time and they like crashed into a pole and both of them died. And so we came back and that happened in October. And like as awful as this is to say like that was kind of like the catalyst as to like why we got together. Because I was like, I don't know, I just, I came over and I supported him and like I kissed him that same night and I was like, I shouldn't be doing this.

Like I feel like I'm taking advantage of like your vulnerability. but he was fine with it because I don't know. So that was like the catalyst for our relationship, but I gave him like a, like I only gave him too, I feel bad because we said like, let's like give it two weeks until we start dating. And in retrospect, like having had my own grief with him passing, like just feels like such a short amount of time.

But we had also liked each other ever so long. And also we were like, before his friend, his best friend passed away, he was like such a sweet and wonderful person. So we were like still like doing that thing that's like old like beating around the bush cat and mouse thing where we were like dating but not. And then we just decided to make it official but we didn't. And so we were, it was cute because we were like opening our homecoming show for our last year. And it was the first like day of us being officially dating.

And so I would say like the first like three months of it were really good. There are some moments that were like, me, not great, but like pretty normal. nothing like abnormal for relationship. And it was, what's crazy is I was like talking to my therapist and I was like, yeah, my biggest fear is that I date him and he dies and he kills himself. And I never in my mom just like dreams imagined that like I would witness his death as well. Like that didn't even, I didn't even know that people went through that. You know what I mean?

So my therapist was like, I feel like he learned his lesson and he's grown a lot because I went to a small college and my therapist was also his therapist. So, yeah. But then what happened is we went to New York for a study away program that was connected to our university. And like that's and start things started going downhill because we both struggled a lot with her mental health in college. And like we just both weren't prepared for the reality of New York and just how hard it is to live there. And so to be honest, I wanted to break up with him. in February.

But I had had, honestly, his mental health was, like, doing better. I would say better than mine, but mine had been, like, the worst it had been and has ever been when, like, the fall of my senior year. Not because of the relationship or anything, although later the relationship did affect it. But I just, like, I just knew in February that we should break up because, I was like we're becoming very codependent. He's starting to become like a bit of an

just like I remember we went to a show and I didn't like the show because we went to go see, we were theater majors, so we went to go see this New York show and I said I didn't like it. And he goes, fuck you, I thought it was great. And it was just like in front of all my friends and it was just like super rude.

And he was also just becoming like really rude to me. I wouldn't say it was like verbally abusive or anything like that. But it was just like not the Lance I knew. And I think it was because, like, he just wasn't prepared. And I think that's what makes me so sad is, like, I don't think that Lance I knew and became friends with as a person that I ended up dating. Like, he was a better friend than he was a boyfriend. So I knew that we should, like,

break up. But I was like, I can't because I'm so miserably depressed. And I don't really have much of a support system out here in New York. And I just don't think that I'll be okay if I break up with him and like I need somebody who's like at least there for me even if they're not like the best person and I and I knew that we were being we kind of had some codependent tendencies because like when he was up I was up and he was down I was down type thing like when he was depressed I was depressed and when he was okay I was okay and I didn't love that about that I was like I don't feel super proud of that but I kind of had to I felt like I had to even though I had a choice in retrospect like I had a choice, but like it felt like I had to stay with him. Also, I didn't have access to

therapy at that point. That was really, I had like one, I could do like, um, tele therapy, but it just wasn't helpful. It just isn't the same. Um, but basically in April, this is like when it was kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back. He was really upset one day and we were on the bus going to a museum. And he said, uh, dating you. makes me depressed and makes me want to kill myself. And in my head I was like, what the hell? Like, you can't just say that to me in public. And I was like, okay, like, hold, please.

We're going to have this conversation like a little while later because I'm not about to like get into why dating me makes you want to kill yourself on a bus in front of strangers. And we went to this museum and it was fine. And then I brought it up the next day. And he's like, I didn't say that. And he's like, what are you talking about? about and I don't think he was gaslighting me.

I think it's truly one of those things and people are like in a mental, he was like really, really, really depressed that day too. When people are really depressed, they don't have a connection to themselves and they can't remember things that they say, you know what I mean, or do. They like disassociating. Yeah, they do. And so it wasn't like,

I don't think it was like a gaslighting type thing because he was like, what are you talking about? I would never say that to you. It's awful. Yeah. And I was like, but you did say that and like I can't date you anymore because of that. Right. but again the same thing happened where I was like oh but like my birthday's coming up and I don't like it was like the end of April and my birthday was May 4th Star Wars birthday oh yeah and I was like I don't want to like be alone on my birthday and I just feel like I would be sad and I called my mom about it and she's like yeah just like because you can just like break up after your birthday so we kind of had like a planned breakup where we knew when New York ended we were going to break up. which was fine because like I told him when we started dating I was like I don't really see this as like a long term thing and we're about to be like end of our senior year so like should we really date and he was like yeah we can just like date for fun until we're like graduating so it kind of ran its course um and then I like saw him at graduation it was awkward

because you guys were broken up at this one yeah yeah and he was awkward about it and like I saw his dad there like met his dad and that was awkward too But I could just sense that he was like down, like not doing well. And like he, there was this party that everyone was throwing for like that, not everyone was throwing this party that this girl was throwing for everyone in our theater class for like graduation and everything. And his dad like wouldn't let him go because he, they had to get to the airport or drive home or something and like he really wanted to go because it was like the last time he was going to see everybody

I could tell he was super down about that and that is like one thing I regret to not that I regret that it just makes me sad that like before he died he didn't get to like hang out and say goodbye to everybody you know what I mean but basically like two weeks went by and we decided to stay friends because we had been friends since the beginning

so we text a little bit we FaceTime a little bit but it wasn't like every day and it wasn't like that type of thing where people are broken up but they're still dating type thing. Just like staying in touch. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and we're still like being each other's support system and everything because that's like the main like theme and threat of our friendship.

And so I went home and I was like talking to my friends. I was like I can't wait to like start dating again. It's like tasting different ice cream flavors and you got like find your Neapolitan and like find the person that's got like everything you need in one. And I was like, I'm so excited. And so like I went on the bus. Bumble date. And I was texting him and he was like down again.

And I was like, man, I feel like in my gut, I was like, I feel like I want to text Lance and not this guy and not go on a date with this guy. And I was like, well, I'm already here. I'll just go. And the date was fine. And it was like nothing to just write home about, but it wasn't like awful. But the thing that happened is at the end of the date, he kissed me. And like that made me uncomfortable just because I wasn't ready.

for it. And I was like anxious about it for like a day. And I went home. I hadn't told Lance that I got on a date. I went home that night after a date and he was like, are you okay? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, it'd be rude to tell him that I wanted a date and someone kissed me and made me uncomfortable. We just broke up. I'm not going to tell him that. But I couldn't sleep that night and the next night I couldn't sleep either. Or like the next day I was still anxious about it, I think. Yeah, it was the next day I was still anxious about it. And I was like, hey, that thing, I told you about like this is why I was anxious, this guy kissed me and made me really uncomfortable and I just like went on the first day with him and I just didn't feel like I

like consented to that kiss. Not that it was like a salt or anything because it was just a kiss, but I just weren't ready. Yeah, I just wasn't ready for it. Yeah. And so he kind of like went like MIA on me after that. He said something and I could just tell that he was like not okay with the fact that I texted him that and I felt really bad. But what's wild about it, is one day in New York, I was thinking back to this one day in New York the same day. I texted him about the guy. And he was suicidal that day. And he was, like, drinking and he was, like, talking about, he was sitting on his balcony.

I was like, this is not good. I don't like the idea of you, like, maybe, like, jumping off your balcony or something. And so I took his alcohol and I, like, poured it down the drain. He was really mad at me. But I was like, you're going to get drunk. You're suicidal. You're already getting a little drunk. I don't think this is a good idea.

Actually, I don't think he was drunk at all. He just, I just didn't think it was a good idea. Right. And so, I remember him talking to me and him being like, yeah, like, if I don't, I'm just, like, scared to graduate and I'm just, like, super depressed because I don't think I'm going to make it as a theater person, which is hard to make it as a theater person. So I get it. I get the fear. And he was like, if I don't make it, by the time I'm, like, 30, I'm just going to kill myself. And I remember just being like, so we were sitting in this bed and he said that and I was like, man, like, I feel like that is just like suicideality in the future is still suicide alley in the present.

You know what I mean? It doesn't matter if you're 20 years old and you're going to kill yourself in 10 years, which turned out to be true because he died like a month after he said that, you know? And I just remember thinking like trying to resolve that with him, but we never got to resolve that. like I never got to be like, get to a point with him where we decided like, yeah, we're not going to kill ourselves before we're like 30, like you're not going to do that. Not we isn't me, but like him. And so I remember like walking around my backyard that day after I texted him about the guy. And I was like, man, we never resolved that conversation.

I wonder if that means he's going to kill himself. And like he killed himself like that night, which is just wild to me like the intuition. Right. But like one thing that was really important. to me that I hang on to as I was like thinking about it in my head. I was walking around my backyard. I realize if he does kill himself, it's not my fault. You know what I mean? And I had gotten lunch with my friend like two weeks earlier after we had broken up. And I was like, yeah. And like I know at the end of the day that like I did everything within my power to help him. And I truly do believe that.

And it's taken me forever to get to that part of my heart and realize that because like I, I felt that way after we broke up and after we dated, but not after he died. Right. And so basically that happened, and I had this, like, eerie feeling that he might die. But I didn't know, it would be, like, that night. And I get a, I'm sitting in my, like, childhood bedroom. I'm, like, it's, like, pink walls. It's being, like, renovated because my parents are moving out, but it's, like, very calming,

like, childhood bedroom flowers everywhere. I got, like, a teddy bear. I have my therapy teddy bear that all my friends used to like sit on this white chair I had and like hold therapy teddy bear and like tell me about their problems. I still have him. He's like covered in everybody's tears. I love him. And his name is therapy teddy bear.

It's not like it's therapy teddy bear. Yeah. That's what his name is. And so I'm like sitting on the bed and I actually still have this like stuff monkey that he gave me because he gave me a stuffed monkey, not a stuffed bear. He gave me a monkey. And so like while I'm sitting in the bed, I took it home with me because I was. I was like, I like this monkey.

It's like five feet tall. I think it's cool. And I still have it. And I'm really glad because it's like a remembrance of him. And then he calls me at like 6.40. Time is like burned into my brain. And he says like I could just tell like something was off when I picked up the phone. Like his voice was really deep and gravely and it didn't sound like him.

And to be honest, I don't remember like what the first thing he said was to me. But it was just like, I was like, I was like, hi are you okay he was like he was like I just feel like I'm worth nothing and like I'm never gonna make it as an actor and like I'm just gonna be a bartender for the rest of my life and it was not a good situation because I think he was like left at home alone for like a week or two which is just bad for a person who struggles with that type of like stuff because he really thrived in community and so I think that was just like not a good environment for him it wasn't like anybody's like fault that he was left home alone but like I think his dad had to go in like a work trip or something like

that and he I was just sitting on the bed and he just like being spiraling and spiraling and like he kept them talking about how like I met that the fact that we dated meant nothing to me and that like he meant nothing to me and I was like what are you talking about he's like well you already like went on a date with this other guy and I could tell that it was like this cause and effect the same cause an effect that had happened like two years earlier when I had rejected him and he like ended up sleeping next to a no news in the dance room and I was like trying to convince him and he's like no don't say that I remember him saying that like in a super like upset and almost angry voice like he didn't want the pity almost you know what I mean but I wasn't pity him I was just being honest like it meant

something to me that we did and I loved him and I was like I could just tell and you know I remember when I went to high school, my Bible teacher, like, walked us through how to help somebody who's suicidal, which is, like, pretty cool that he did that. But you asked them, like, if they, I think if they have a plan, I can't remember if they have a plan, if they have, like, a way to enact that plan and, like, when they're going to do it or something like that. And our code word between, like, him and me when he was feeling suicidal was, like, are you safe? And he said, yes. And I said, do you have a plan? And he didn't answer that question. And I was like, okay, that's not a good sign. He just went silent. And so then I took down a piece of paper. I said, what's your address?

Because he had gone back to, he's from Texas, but I think his dad was in Louisiana. So he's with his dad in Louisiana at a time. So I'm in California. And he's in Louisiana. And so I write down his address. And I'm like, just trying to talk him through. I'm like, is anyone home? He's like, no. and I'm like, this is bad. I could just tell that he was like suicidal. I had a feeling he was going to kill himself, even though he said he was safe. I just didn't trust it.

And I was scared because I wasn't like near him. I couldn't like do anything about it. And I tried to get him to go with his dog downstairs because he was in the attic. And I was like, oh fuck, nothing ever good happens in the attic. Like all the movies you see when people die, like they come bursting down to the attic and their feet are just dangling.

I was like, yeah, no. like get out of the attic dude um and so i was like just um really worried and stressed and he was just going on and on about like how i never cared about him which really is hard for those to be like the last things that he said to me and it was also one of those things where like he just wasn't himself like he wasn't i just like didn't have a sense it's like almost like this darkness had overcome him. And like I had walked him through a suicidal before and like this time felt just so much heavier and darker. And like there's a difference between somebody who's going to like the darkness, like I've learned this from my experience with him. There's a huge jump of in like emotion and

darkness from a person who is like feeling like they might kill themselves. So a person is like actually going to do it and they are like for sure going to die. And like it's interesting to me because there's like a power almost like a demonic presence that has to be at a certain height for that to be a successful attempt if that makes sense and so I could feel that and I was just like really stressed out and honestly like the conversation is like escaping from right now because I think it's a bit like buried deep but all I remember is I heard like what sounded like a chair falling over and then a gas for breath and then I was like Lance Lance Lance Lance like are you here he didn't answer. And so I hung up and I called 911 and then it didn't work because it was

911 for my area. So I had to look up Louisiana's 911 and then call them. And I just had to like, I kept on texting him and calling him. I tried texting him on Messenger and like I texted his friends and he wasn't answering. And then what always baffles me is that like I don't know if his phone died or something or he like had his phone in his hand and turned it off after I like, But like when I called him the next time, it went straight to voicemail. So I'm like, that's so weird. I don't, I don't, but like I know what I heard. You know what I mean?

Like, I know that was someone hanging themselves because I heard the chair fall over and I heard this like gas for breath. And like, I just remember sitting in my bed for two hours and being like waiting for the police or waiting for someone to tell me if he was alive or not. And that is like the worst part. I think that's the worst part of it all is the waiting. I had a huge time PTSD-wise. The thing I struggled with was like waiting, like gas stations,

like filling up was like my nightmare. Red lights. I hated them. And like it was like this feeling of just like stillness. And I still struggle with it like stillness is really hard for me because it's like I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. But I went out of my room and I told me. my mom, I was like, hey, I'm not sure, but I think Lance Maya died. I'm not sure because she'd just come

home from work. And she's like, okay, like, well, we can't, like, you shouldn't freak out before. Like, we know anything. And then, like, I think I got the text from his ex-girlfriend, who was still friends with him from high school. And she said that he had passed away. And she called me, actually, no, yeah, she called me. And I remember my first word was like, okay, okay. And I was, like, very level-headed about it. Like, I was very, like, I'm accepting this. Like my first stage of grief was just like straight to acceptance. And I was just like, got it.

Cool. Thank you for telling me. And like we planned to hang out the next day because she lived in L.A. too. But yeah, I just remember after that I had this like almost euphoric sense of happiness, which sounds awful. But it was like my defense mechanism emotion. Like obviously I was, well, it was also I went through like, I feel like I went through all the five stages of grief and like like the couple hours but like at first I just didn't know what to do

so I just kept on taking a shower and like I just like sat in my shower and like I think my mom came and checked it on me and just like scream wailed like just so sad and like I just didn't know what to do so I just like kept on taking the shower and it was like it was hard because like like you don't know what to do with your body you don't like you can't just like you're just like you feel stuck because you're like I can't just like go on a walk or like make dinner you're like I just don't know like it's just a state of shock and like but then after that shock went I was like everyone went to bed and I just started listening to music and I was like my body was like whoa what is this new feeling this is grief this is like almost like this yeah I guess I said like euphoric

sense of like newness and freshness and not it wasn't like I say happiness but like I don't mean that you know what I mean but it was like a like a reach like a I was like a I was like like almost rejecting what was happening. It was like denial. And I was just like listening to music about grief and like sadness. And I was like, oh, I'm in my feelings. This is like so interesting and like new and different. And I like was just so like, yeah, in denial.

But it was it was a really long road to be able to like not feel guilty about what had happened and like not feel like it was my fault. Right. Yeah, I think, I know. It also was really hard because I kept in looking for therapists in my area, I think because I was like, well, I got to go to therapy, obviously. Yeah. And I just couldn't find anybody who, like, had experience with suicide witness survivors.

And, like, I remember I looked it up on Google and, like, I found this Canadian study from, like, 1990 where it was, like, 4% of the world is, like, a suicide witness survivor. And I was like, that's a really small percentage. And, like, there's no resources for it. And I'm sure that number has gone up, but like, because it's from 1990. And I just remember being like, I can't find any resources for myself. So like I did a lot of the healing like myself. Like it was just a lot of crying, to be honest.

And then you said that you suffered from PTSD as far as like the time and waiting. Yeah. I had, I had, well, I also had like some flashbacks too. I only had like two, but I remember one of them I woke up. I visited my friend Katie in Tahoe after it happened, like three months after it happened. And I woke up and I could just like hear him in my head like dying. And so like the way I dealt with it is I would just take a bath and I would just like put my head into the water and like listen to the, I wouldn't like, I'm not like trying to drown my stuff. That's what it sounds like.

But I would just like put my head into the water for like five seconds and just like listen to it, come up and then like go back down again. and it would just like center and ground me, which like I didn't know. Like I was like talking to the therapist sometime. I was like, she's like, what do you do with your stress? I was like, sometimes I just like let the bath run. And like she's like, yeah, like sounds and sensory things are really good for you to ground yourself. But I also felt like, and this sounds weird, but I was like I felt like the water was the only thing that understood me. Because I was like this feeling of just like this like loud pounding is like what it felt like in my heart.

You know what I mean? And so I was like I just feel like this like water gets me. But I guess like one thing that I learned, and like this is like just my self that I learned, it's like not a therapist type thing. Because everyone told me like, don't feel guilty about it. I'm like, that's just the most freaking unhelpful advice that I could have. Because like, of course, it's only natural that I'm going to feel guilty. But I told myself you're allowed to think guilty, but not allowed to feel guilty.

And like what I meant by that is like I would allow myself to go down the rabbit hole. of like, well, what if I had done this? What have I done this? But I wouldn't allow myself to feel that rabbit hole. So I would always like supersede it. And like at the end of the rabbit hole, I'd be like, I'd find a reason in my feelings why that wasn't true. You know what I mean?

Like, I find a logical reason. So I would like go through. And my brain is just evil, I feel like, because it would always come up with a new reason. Like, well, what if I had phased him instead of called him? What if when my mom came home, she could have helped me with it if I told her about it. it you know and so like it was like torture a little bit but like it let I just had to like purge my brain of them and just like let my brain go there and like I had to just be like okay and at the end I had to be

like be strong in my resolve and be like no like it wasn't it wasn't my fault and this is why and like I gave myself a bunch of reasons and stuff like that and I think too the reason why your story is so important is well one like you said I think most importantly there The percentage is so low. Yeah. So it's like anyone else that has felt this or experienced this. It's almost like you provide that support for them and like to make them feel like they're not alone. But also I think that there's so many people that date people or have friends that make suicidal comments.

Yeah. And it can, even if it doesn't end up happening, it can leave people feeling extremely guilty. Yeah. And like they almost feel forced to stay in someone's life or be friends with. them or provide that support. And I think that as much as you might care about somebody and as much as you can try to be there for them, this is kind of what you were saying earlier, I think. But not that it isn't your responsibility, but that isn't your demon to fight. And it isn't something that you can like hold over your shoulders. It's way too heavy. I think that the emotional toll

that it takes on you is we're not meant to deal with that. And I think that the most you can do is be there for somebody, do your best to try to make sure that they're getting help. But like even with that, you can't control somebody else. Yeah, for sure. And no one, I don't think losing anybody is already hard enough. And then hearing it and kind of almost knowing that it was planned out in a way. And it's something that was like a buildup. Like he would make those comments.

And you kind of expected it. You didn't know when, but you kind of expected it. It makes it so that much harder. And it's a very, very traumatic loss. Yeah. And I was going to say, like, I remember telling my mom as awful it is as it is. Like when he died, there was a sense of just relief because I was like, it's, it happened. Yeah.

Because I kind of knew for a long time that it was going in my gut. Right. I knew that it was going to. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it's like, well, right. I don't know if I knew, but like, I don't think I knew actually. I more mean that like I just was like, it was just so hard like making sure that he didn't die.

Right. I mean. Yeah. And like my therapist used to say you're responsible to your friends, not responsible for your friends. And like I feel like that really encapsulates like the balance and the boundary you have to have with that, you know? Yeah.

But I just remember going to like the funeral and everyone was like, don't feel guilty. Don't feel guilty because I knew what happened. And like it was this awful feeling. I remember I always compare it to it as like I felt like I was a trophy on a case and everyone was like staring at me. But like I didn't win. Like I felt like everyone was like, ooh, there's the girl whose boyfriend killed himself and she witnessed it. And then like random people from a university started following me.

And I was like private just because I think they wanted to see what was going on because they heard about the drama. Yeah. And I was like, this isn't drama. This is traumatic for me. This is my life. But like it was just like I remember people like just would keep saying that. and it just was the most unhelpful thing for me. But I feel like it was also just like lonely

because there just wasn't, it was like the blind leading the blind when it came to my therapists. And I just like ran into, I for some reason had terrible lock and ran into terrible therapists like during that time. And so I just feel like a lot of the healing I did myself and a lot of it,

I feel like the reason I was able to heal is because I'm a person who feels my feelings. And I feel completely healed from that and I feel like it doesn't like really affect me beyond like a little bit of PTSD. And I'm like I'm not a person who can compartmentalize. I have to if I feel something like I have to let it out. And so like there was just like nights when I was like alone

in my house and I was just like wailing because like no one was around. They could like let it out. You know what I mean? But like I guess there is a part of me that like wants to like talk to the people and like through this just like who have witnessed that in terms of just like the hope that there is

because I think it can feel like really isolating and I think there's a balance also between like knowing you're not alone and also knowing that you're you should have the dignity of your own individual experience because there is like some loneliness in it like it does it's a very isolating experience because one no one wants to talk about suicide and too, like, no one wants to talk about much less when someone, like, witnesses it, you know what I mean? And so, like, I just felt like it was hard, too, because a lot of my friends were just underprepared to help me.

And I think if it happened to, like, one of my friends, I would understand just, like, the not knowing what to do. And so I just felt like a lot of my friends abandoned me, and I think we're all in good terms now. And I really appreciate them because they ended up showing up for me in the end. But it was this sense of, like, no one knew what to do. And so, like, if, like, there is anyone listening to us who has, like, witness to suicide, I guess I do want to say that, like, you can ride that line of knowing you're not alone, but also knowing that there is, like, a dignity and experiencing your own personal, like, loss. And, like, if you need to feel like you're alone and just, like, I remember when I time I talked to a mentor in my mind, she's like, maybe it's okay to say that you're alone. And, like, when I said, like, I was alone in that experience. Like, it just felt so, like, liberating. And, like, it felt like a justified statement. You know what I mean? Because I just remember being so angry when my friends would tell me you're not alone because I was like, but I feel so alone. Right. And so also like to people who've gone through that, to have like a lot of grace for their friends because even it's hard.

It's a really hard thing to do. But like I found I found through everything that like people who love you want to love you, they just might not know how sometimes. Yeah. not because they don't like you or because they hate you just because it's a hard thing to deal with and no one's trained in it. Absolutely. It's also hard because like you,

like you are experiencing everything so you know what to do almost. Like, like, not, there's a sense of like not knowing that to do because it's so overwhelming, but like, you are experiencing things so you kind of wonder like why everyone else doesn't feel this way, but that's because they're not you. Yeah.

but it can feel like the emotions are so overwhelming that you're like wondering like, why is everyone else not feeling this way? You know what I mean? Yep. But also just like finding like hobbies and stuff was really helpful. Like one of my friends said like when something is taking out from you

it requires a, when someone is, my friend said, when something is taken from you requires a pouring out of us. And I felt that to be really true. And I found that like through my music and making music, it was really healing because, I was able to write about a really individual experience and make myself feel like it was universal by making lyrics that I feel like everyone could relate to.

You know what I mean? And so like I just felt like that was really healing too because it was also a form of stillness that my PTSD could deal with because I was still like creating forward momentum through creativity while also just like sitting down at the piano. And like it really healed my inability to like be still, which was really good.

And also, like, I do feel like because I am a religious person, like, I feel like my spirituality and my walk with God really helped heal me. Because I feel like I did so much healing away from God, which I regret because I feel like it could have been so much more meaningful if I had done it with God because I was like angry at God when it all happened, understandingly so. But, like, I remember just feeling like two years after it happened, I was like, man, like I didn't like involve God in my. a healing process and I feel like I regret that because I feel like there's like a barrier now between me being able to heal with God because I'm just so removed from those emotions that I don't know how to like invite God into this, you know? And I was talking to my friend about that and he was like, you know, nothing is too late to be like redeemed by God. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. And so I was just like driving and I was like crying about Lance. I was like, God, can you redeem this?

and I had been praying about that for a couple of days, and I just felt like this wave of, like, redemption and relief and, like, wholeness. And so the sense of, like, just knowing that, like, you can heal. For me, I can heal my own, but, like, I can't heal fully without God in, like, my spiritual journey, you know? Yeah. And so, like, I just, like, I don't know, I just encourage anyone who's going through a hard time to, like,

try and reach out to, like, a higher source or something within themselves or out. there that might make them feel like, you know, more connected. And I think too, everybody heals at different rates. Yeah, for sure. Unfortunately, a lot of it is time and then just different outlets like you said. And I think finding what works for you. And, you know, sometimes it might be talking to somebody. Sometimes it might be a form of expression, like how with you it was with your music. And sometimes it might just be silence. You never know. And I think there's no set time on healing. And I think we're always continually, like, we're always healing. Oh, for sure.

Like, I went to a musical last night, and there, like, there's a song about, like, how this girl will, like, always love this man. And she said, my heart is set in stone. Like, you, like, you can try and break me down, but you won't, basically. And, like, I was like, man, I felt that about Lance. And I cried because I was thinking about Lance. And I was, like, there's some people that you, I feel like, I feel like God, like, destined me to love Lance.

Like, God gave me a purpose through loving Lance. And, like, I feel like. I feel like, yeah, it was my purpose for a time to love him. And, like, I think that time has come to an end, to be honest. Because just, like, writing everything down, I was like, you know what? I think Lance and I, like, I think that Lance, how do I say this? I think I was meant to love Lance in that time, but now I feel like I'm older and wiser and, like, I wouldn't date that person anymore.

I wouldn't date that person again, you know what I mean? And I think, too, it takes sometimes going through an experience like that to set boundaries for yourself where in the future you know I wouldn't be able to handle dating something like this. And that isn't something that's healthy for me or my mental health. Yeah, definitely. And I think that sometimes when we're younger too, we don't really know any better. And I think that it's easy to want to fix and help. And especially when you are a good person and you want to just make someone feel better and fix all their problems. But yeah, I think too, you know, I always say everything happens for a reason, even the worst things that we don't understand.

Yeah. But you also now have this voice that you can help others that, like I said, even if somebody hasn't experienced firsthand what you have, like I said, there's so many people that I feel like they know people that have threatened suicide. And that's heavy also. For sure. So it's like I feel like you have this voice that can really help others not. feel alone. Yeah, and that's why I appreciate, like, the work you do just because I feel like there was a time where I felt like all I had was, like, my pride and I didn't have a voice. I just felt ashamed and I felt, like, guilty, and I didn't feel like I had, like, a ground to stand on to be, like,

this is who I am, this is what my life means to me, this is what my story means to me. And of course, I wouldn't have that immediately after that happened because those things take time to develop. But, like, that's why I appreciate, like, this chance to come on and everything. Of course, I'm so glad that you want it to come on and share your story. And, And I think, like I said, not only is it so powerful for yourself to open up and be vulnerable and share your story, but it also really does touch so many other people. And it helps a lot of people not feel alone and to feel that support, which is so important. Yeah, for sure. I just remember there was this one night.

I went to Thanksgiving to visit my family in Utah. And it was the same year that this had happened. So he died on May 23rd, 2019. And this was like November 2019. and I just remember feeling so sad about Lance and I like went down to like I was staying in their basement and they had like a little bedroom down there and I just was crying and I wanted to like wail out

and just like let it out but I couldn't because like I'm around my family and friends and I remember texting my friend I feel this huge pain in my gut and I just feel like I like will never stop crying like I don't feel like I'm ever going to get over this and I just like want to say to someone who like might feel this way or to like my younger self

that like my friend told me like there will be a time when you like will be past this. And like if you can't like hold that belief for yourself, like try and find a friend who can hold that belief for you and like hold vigil for you like while you wait for that time to come. And like my friend, Grayson, was that person for me. And so like letting yourself know that like even though it feels like forever, there is a way out and like the only way out is through.

So like you're going to have to feel pain. and you're going to have to like deal with the crap that comes with like healing. Yes, healing, yeah. And like it's not going to be pretty, but it will be worth it, you know what I mean? And like... It makes you stronger too.

Yeah, and like you don't have to be defined by what happened to you either. Like it can inform and impact who you are. But like, I don't feel like that is like my main identity. You know what I mean? Right. And like... It's just a part of your story.

It's just a part of my story. And like, also I think that like, yeah, the only way out is through and just like there will come a time. when like you feel like your life is full again like I was visiting my friend this weekend and I was like man I'm so happy and I'm so full and like I never thought that was possible for me like and there's a song lyric it goes like and I live so well and how can it be possible for one person to live with all this life and I feel that way about my life and like it's just like I remember my friends who's not my friend

anymore was like yeah you're never going to get over that and i was like thanks that doesn't help me feel any better but like you do and you grow and like as long as you like oh hi pup as long as you choose to make your life better you will yes for sure yeah no i i think that's great and like i said you did such a good job and i think that that is a really important thing to remember is that healing does take time and it's never really easy but that's how we come out stronger yeah and that's how we learn and we grow and it sucks but it's a part of life yeah and it's a beautiful part of life honestly I wouldn't like I look back on my journey with everything that happened with Lance and I think it's very beautiful and empowering and like it was hard but like it was so worth it and it's made my

life so much more meaningful and richer and it's made me a better friend the better person it's like impacted me and made me stronger so absolutely choose to that right yes and you did incredible and seriously thank you so much for coming on I really appreciate it thanks you did so good