We're All Insane - Why She Became a Sex Therapist

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

CW: This episode contains discussions of SA. Sex therapy is a specialized form of therapy that addresses a wide range of intimate and sexual concerns faced by individuals and couples. This therapeutic approach is designed to create a safe and non-judgmental environment where clients can explore and discuss their sexual difficulties, desires, and concerns. Sex therapists are trained professionals who have expertise in human sexuality and psychology. They provide guidance and support to help clients overcome issues such as sexual dysfunction, low libido, performance anxiety, communication problems, and past traumas affecting their intimate lives. Through open and honest conversations, sex therapists help individuals and couples gain a deeper understanding of their own sexuality, uncover underlying emotional factors, and explore healthy ways to express their desires and needs. The benefits of sex therapy are far-reaching. It can enhance sexual satisfaction, improve communication and intimacy between partners, boost self-esteem and body image, alleviate sexual anxiety, and address relationship conflicts related to sex. By working with a sex therapist, individuals and couples can develop the tools, strategies, and self-awareness necessary to build fulfilling and harmonious sexual relationships. Amanda's socials: https://www.instagram.com/handymandy919/ https://linktr.ee/handymandy919?fbclid=PAAaYWjnzwJhy5QR9cNgy__HU8vVjQBvDQqGZOLPupfp8Fitmq5PNjl0z_jYs_aem_th_AQicqETdzzEA3Vgtd5sTrv3aRsED_Q4EQPrZ6y2Zs1yJumc1oDt0-_wM08ygU-t4oiY If you have a unique story you'd like to share on the podcast, fill out this form: https://forms.gle/ZiHgdoK4PLRAddiB9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, it's me Devorah. I just dropped an all new bonus episode inside my new subscription channel, We're All Insane Plus. This week's bonus episode is called My Brain was slipping into my spine. Listen now by subscribing to We're All Insane Plus inside your Spotify or Apple Podcasts app or go to we're all insane.com. My name is Amanda Paul and I'm in my second year of graduate school to be a sex therapist. Love it. Yes. Before I start at the beginning, I, there's this process in becoming a therapist called self of the therapist work. And there are multiple classes that you have to take. And it's pretty much like sorting through all of your shit to make sure that you are healed at the bare minimum you need to be to help other people. So that process was so eye-opening for me,

like connecting my childhood and like attachment theory and the experiences that you go through and the stupid shit you do when you're a teenager, all of these things that like make you who you are and form how you think about sex, how you think about relationships, and ultimately like what kind of therapist you're going to be. It helps you like check your biases and not get triggered if somebody brings up something that you can relate to. Right. And this is kind of the story of that process of like my early experiences.

There's a little bit of everything, some good, some not so good, that combined to make me interested in being a sex therapist. Yeah, that was going to be my next question. Like, what made you want to do that? This is the entire story of that. So from like birth to now like the experiences, the thought processes that led to this. there's something called micro trauma, which people don't talk about a lot, but it's one of the most common kinds of trauma. It's not one big, bad experience. It's a lot of small negative experiences that might not feel like immediately distressing or like super bad.

But over time, they compound and add on each other. And it results in like a way of thinking that's dysfunctional. Right. Which makes sense because I feel like even just like reflecting and looking back on my life and experiences I've had, I feel like it's really easy to think that we can handle a lot of things. But then when you actually look at it, it's like, oh, it would make sense if something like that affected me or has some sort of negative effect, even if it doesn't seem like something terrible. But everything sticks with us. Like you said, even the good and the bad stick with us. So it makes sense. And I think when people experience something like big or small, they want to heal right away. Like you do. that quick, like coping just to carry on with everyday life. And a lot of people think that that's where the healing, the like recovery ends. But everything leaves a lasting impact on you, even if it's a small way like, and you might not notice it. And so me working through all of these things, I felt like, you know, like, I love sex. I'm going to be a sex therapist. Like I'll talk about

anything. But there were these skeletons in my closet of like, well, that happened. And that doesn't really fit with how I feel about sex. And I went through this experience and like, I don't want to tell people about that. And I really had to integrate all of these experiences into my view of sex and love in order to be like an authentic therapist and like admit to people like, nobody is perfect. Everybody has things that could be like tweaked or fixed. So I'm just going to tell my story. Okay.

And I'll add in a little bit of research, a little bit of like therapy. concepts. And if there's anything that's like too clinical, just check me and I'll ask questions. Don't worry. Yeah. Okay. So I had a very normal privileged childhood. My parents were madly in love. They still are. They are still married. And they gave me like the perfect representation of what a relationship should be. Like I didn't, I don't think I ever saw them fight, they never yelled. It was like the best that you could ever wish for. And so like later on, I think that that model and like how close my family is served as a buffer between bad things that happened and me not having like worse reactions because your support system is, is everything.

But I always had a really like natural, innocent curiosity and sex. I, when I could first start to read, I read like tampons in the bathroom and I grilled my mom. I was like, what is a tampon? Tell me what it is. And we were in public. She was like, just wait. I pretty much had to convince my parents to give me the talk. And they did.

Like they answered every single question. They were truthful about everything. They were open. But they never like gave me more information that I asked for. Right. It was very like age appropriate. it. And obviously awkward, but they were like open, totally open. And they had, I was raised in a Christian denomination that's like very accepting of diversity. They don't really tell you, like,

how to live your life, who, like, who you should love, what you should be, like very accepting of all identities. But I did get a little bit of like, you know, you shouldn't have sex until you're married. Like, sex is a beautiful thing, but it's for a husband and wife. And so, that was like my ground layer. Um, so coming out of probably until the age 10, my like ideology of sex was in love. Um, was that like love is this romantic fairy tale. And one day your husband just finds you and you have sex and it's great. Um, so that's where it started. Everything's cool and chill. Then my family moved to China for three years when I was 10. Interesting. What four? My dad's job. Everyone assumes Army. He wasn't in the Army. His company just opened a factory over there.

And it was such a positive experience, like seeing a new culture and like living in this community and like the shopping, the food. Everything was great. But I went to a school that was for international students run by fundamentalist Christian missionaries. So it wasn't the China of it all that was later traumatizing. It was the like Christian fundamentalism. It was like kind of the most stereotypical form of purity culture that you could have, but not the worst that I've ever seen. It's not like duggers, you know?

Yeah. Like I don't know if you've seen all their drama. It's not quite that bad, but like they enforced to, I was 11. I think when I started going to school there, they talked about sex so much, but it was always, obviously, like, you can't have sex unless you're married. Like, it's impossible. Like, you just can't. Yeah. And it's only between a man and a woman and, like, just very strict. Right.

But they talked about it so much that I was like, why, like, if this is something that we don't do, why are you, like, drilling at home so much? same thing with dress codes like I at first it was um you know you can't wear short shorts or like a tank top and then it was you can't wear skinny jeans you can't wear sweatpants you can't wear leggings which is i think standard um you can't wear tight shirts and this was like the age of abacrombie you know yeah like the printed um it just got more and more conservative um and the kids that were at this school were raised in this bubble of missionaries, like the admin, the teachers, all of their kids were raised not in U.S. culture. So they didn't know like fashion trends.

They didn't know pop culture things. Like it was super immoral to have a crush like in middle school. I remember I got in trouble for holding hands with this guy on the playground, called into the principal's office. And they were like holding hands leads to high. hugging, which leads to kissing, which leads to sex, and that's a sin. And I was 12 and I was like, right, I'm not even thinking about sex. I was going to say also like, because it was so drilled and talked about, it's almost one of those things that it makes a child more curious because,

like, if you're just thinking of holding hands and it's like fun and cute and I mean, even friends do that, you know, at that age. So it's almost like, then it makes you curious, well, what is sex? And why is it so frowned upon? You know, because I mean, that's what sparks curiosity and actually doing what they want you not to do. Right. And I think that's just like, that's purity culture in general. It's so contradictory. Especially, like this wasn't part of it for me, but a lot of people had purity rings. And I don't know if you've ever heard of like purity balls. No.

Oh, God. What is that? So a ball like a dance. The certain like super conservative types of Christianity will host purity balls where the dad and the daughter, like young daughter. I think you could be a teenager, but probably all the way down to age like five. They go to the dance together and they both sign a contract. And sometimes like you get a purity ring and it just says, I promise to my father that I won't have sex until I'm married.

And it's like a ball, like a dance. Yeah. And it's the creepiest thing you'll ever see because this girl is five years old, six years old. And her dad is already so concerned about her sex life. Like she doesn't even know what sex is. She's concerned about her Barbies and like. Yeah.

Playing on the playground. And at this young age, dads are like, don't let men touch you. Like, you know, until you're married, promise your father that you won't do this. And they're children. And it's like sexualizing children. They're trying not to, but they're highlighting it so much that it like sexualizes these young girls. Right. And so I felt a little bit of that not to that degree.

But like when you tell an 11-year-old that your shirt is tight, and so you're distracting the boys from their schoolwork and they make you wear like a big hoodie, I mean, like, I'm a member of the Eddie, buddy-titty committee. Like, I didn't think about my body that way until adults were telling me that, like, your shirt's inappropriate. I was like... It's almost like, just let a child be innocent and not think about that

until it gets brought up. Yeah, and it's adults pushing their concerns and their fears. on to kids who, like, that's not even in their head. So, yeah, it was a dress code. It was focused mostly on girls, but a little bit boys too. I just remember the guys, like, we had a really deceptive sex ed class that was led by, not even teachers. It was like abstinence only.

They had this picture book. And we were 12. Like, we were kind of old enough to know that, like, this is bullshit. The boys were taught not to watch porn, not to my kids. masturbate and the girls. This was all taught in school. Yeah. And how old were the boys in? I mean, I was in sixth grade. So I'm just like so confused why porn was even being brought up. That's like fundamentalist Christian's number one enemy. Mormon, like Mormonism. But like at that young of an eight, like no one's even. Okay, keep going. You're planting that idea. Like they're planting it by being so uptight. It's almost like dangling a snack and saying you

can't eat it, but here it is. And everyone ate it. Like, at that school, like, it's almost dangling cake in front of my face saying, don't do it. I'd be like, give me the fucking cake. Right. You'll see the cake that I ate as a result of this, but a lot of the guys at that school ended up with, like, porn addictions. Because they were so, like, so trying to hammer home, like, don't do this. Right. Because everybody, you want what you can't have. So if you're like told a million times, that is crazy. Yeah. But. This is also in China. I know, right? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was led by mostly Americans. Okay. From the UK. Were there a lot of Americans in your class?

It was majority Korean students. But there were, I would say like 25% of the school was white. Okay. Maybe a little bit more. Which was like a very interesting experience in other ways. But like the sexuality part messed me up for a long time. Hence why we were working. Well, it's interesting to me too because, you know,

it's always, I mean, I always talk about how it's not talked about enough here. And the only thing they really talk about kind of is like, what? When we get to, what age is it? I feel like in high school, they have, I think it's health class. And they'll kind of bring it up and everybody giggles, but it's so brushed over and it's so surface level. It's more like I feel like not anatomy of the body, but it's just so nothing is actually talked about in detail.

And I always say that if things were talked about more and not in a weird way, like not pushing it and not pushing it, but just making it. a very open, casual conversation, I think that people wouldn't be so giggly about it. And it would be, because it is normal. Everybody has sex in some way. Like it's such a, like we are sexual beings. That's like our human nature. But yeah, it's just interesting.

Because I feel like here it's not really talked about or it's talked about very surface level and kind of like, what's the word? Is it taboo? Is that the word? Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like, it's all scare tactics too. Yeah.

It's like reproduction and don't get an SDD and don't get pregnant. We're not going to talk about gay sex. we're not going to talk about the fact that it feels good. Like in my, skipping ahead, but in my high school, public school, North Carolina, sex ed class, the diagram of a vagina or a vulva didn't have a clit. Right. And I went up to my teacher and I was like, excuse me, you need to get a new diagram. I'm like, where's the clip?

And she was like, you're right. And so she did. That's funny. That's interesting. But yeah, that was our sex ed earlier even than a lot of Christians would even do. abstinence only. Okay. So leaving China, I rebelled.

I mean, I obviously when they're saying, like you said, you can't do this, don't look at this, don't talk about this, I wanted it more. And I already had that natural curiosity from a young age, like not about my own sexuality, but just about like how does it work and like the psychology, the emotions behind it, all of the fun things that you can do. Like there's literally millions of things, like so many kinks, like what's out there. So I remember watching like Lacey Green YouTube videos. I don't know if you ever watched.

She was like the OG sex ed, like sex positive sex ed. She got canceled off the internet. But she's incredible. She, let's see, I like sought information online. Of course I started exploring porn because. Yeah. How old were you? 13, 12, 13.

And I started talking to people in my school about sex because we were all so deprived. And like you said, like the carrot was being dangled. So like we were all talking about it with each other. But I remember this was like one of my biggest mistakes of my life. We, I was talking about it with this guy who's like a little bit older than me. I don't even remember what we were talking about, but we were talking about sex. Like probably a little graphic for 13. And it was on my home laptop, but with my school Skype account.

And they hacked in and saw that we were talking about this. and called parents, called the school, told everyone. And I had other students' parents calling my parents saying, your daughter's not allowed to hang out with our kids. She's going to corrupt them. She's a slut. She is like, right? Like they, we don't want her around.

And even my parents were like, what's wrong with you? Like, not to me. To these other parents, they were like, she's 13. Like, slut means a person that has sex with a lot of people. And that is not true. Like she held hands and had one first kiss and is curious. So they stood up for me. They've always been like, they can see the bullshit.

And so I left China feeling like my sexuality holds a lot of power. Like they say that, you know, as a girl, like your whole value is whether or not you're a virgin. So clearly my sex is like what makes me value. or not. And it defines like whether I'm a good person. So then I come back to America at 14, I think. And I should have felt like I fit in because like going from China back to the place that I was from, it should have been like, okay, I'm back. But I had missed three years of pop culture. I missed Vine. I missed when baggy T-shirts replaced Abercrombie T-shirts. I just missed so much and all like all I wanted was to fit in.

And the house that we moved into, the next door neighbors had parents and kids that were like about our same age. And of course, I was so deprived of all flirtation, relationship things. Like I had like a first kiss, whatever, but not what most people at 13 are like really starting to like people and explore that. And my next door neighbor was, I think, one or two years older than me. And he was like, I mean, I'll say this. He's like the worst person I've ever met. Trigger warnings for sexual assault. But he saw that like something was different about me.

Like I came from somewhere else. I wasn't like with with the times pretty much. And it started as like a little crush. We would like have a movie night and like cold hands under the covers. we would kiss, like ride our bikes to the neighborhood park. And like, it was very cute to start. And then it just kept getting more and more pressure. And I remember saying no, like the first couple times to a lot of things.

And he was like, well, everyone's doing it. Like you're in high school now. Like you're going to be the only girl who doesn't know how to give a blowjob. And so he was my first experience with pretty much everything. Like he was coercing me into things. And I would agree, but I was uncomfortable. Like I was visibly uncomfortable dry as hell. Like all of the signs that I wasn't into it, but I wanted him to like me.

And I was taught that sex is where the value is. And so if I do these things, then he'll like me. And a lot of times we think of grooming as like an older person and a child. But the definition, I wrote it down, is the act of engaging in behaviors or practices intended to gradually condition or emotionally manipulate a victim over time as through friendship, gifts, flattery in order to entrap the person in a sexually abusive or predatory relationship. And this is what it was. Although I like eventually agreed to things, it took so much convincing and pushing and like you have to do this because everybody else is doing it.

And he knew that I wanted to fit in. So I was like going with it. Yeah. And eventually I'll spare like the details, but it got to the point where we had never had sex before. I came over to his house. Like I was prepping for a Halloween party and I got like a cooler. Because our parents were friends. Like we were very close.

Like literally 50 feet away from each other. I went over to his house to borrow something. And at this time, I kind of knew that like, he didn't like me. He was just using me, but I was also hormonal. And so, like, we would talk for like a week and then not for a while. Just like going back and forth between like, I don't hate myself that much, but also like, I'm horny. And so like I went inside. We started kissing and he was pushing. Like, let's just have like finally like have sex. And I said no, 15 to 20 times. Just like, no, I don't want to. You know, I'm nervous, whatever. And he kept

pushing like physically and like trying to convince me and so finally I was like whatever like I've said no a lot of times it's not working so it would just be easier for me to let this happen and then I can leave and when that happened like it didn't feel I still don't call it rape it definitely felt bad it was sexual assault it was coercive I said no but it It wasn't what Amy Schumer calls the perfect rate. Like when people think about sexual assault, they think about like gun to your head. Like you physically can't leave. And for the majority of people, that's not the case.

It's like this gray area. It's confusing and you blame yourself because like I went over there. I agreed to kiss. But I didn't agree to do those things. And I could have physically fought harder. I could have screamed, but I felt like I, shouldn't. It's so messy and it's so not simple. Like, it's not...

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It's not like being held down and like, yeah. And I mean, a little bit. But like there's more that I could have done. And little 14, 15 year old me was like I could have if I really wanted to left that situation. Yeah. But for some reason I didn't. I like, my fight, flight or freeze at that time was like freeze.

Just whatever's going to happen happens and then I can get out. But I realized that sex doesn't equal love, like everybody had told me, you can just do it and it means nothing. And it didn't make him like me more. Of course, like the first time everybody has sex or the first couple of times, you're like, oh my God, I'm definitely pregnant. Like no matter what you do, use a condom, whatever, you're like terrified. And this was my first time. And I just, I remember he wasn't talking to me after and that was like shattering. But I text him and I was like, I'm scared.

Like, what if I'm pregnant? And he told me, well, if you are, you'll just get an abortion. And I was like, I can't afford that. I'm literally 14, 15 years old. How old was he again? He was a year older than me. Okay, so he's still young. Yeah.

And he said, well, if you can't afford it, I'll do it myself. And that's when I was kind of like, oh, like, he's not just like pushy and coercive. like this guy is a problem. Yeah. Like deeply a problem. And I kind of tried to tell people what happened. But like I said, like I couldn't accept that it wasn't my fault for the longest time. Like I went all the way through high school, not telling my parents.

And when I finally did, my senior year, my, they sold the house, they moved. And the only thing that his parents said was. when my parents told him was, do we need a lawyer? We later found out he'd done this to multiple girls in our town. And so then finally, I was like, okay, like it wasn't me. Like, it wasn't just me. It was, this is like a bigger problem. And if I had said something earlier, it might not have happened to these other girls.

Like, no matter how confusing or, like, self-blaming it was, I was just too young to fully grasp it. But some statistics for you because this is this is the more common experience that people just like push down and don't talk about because they're not really sure people ages 14 to 17 are most likely to be rape victims one in six women have been raped one in 33 men it definitely does happen to men but not as much a systemic sex is something over 80% of sexual assaults are committed by an acquaintance. And this is literally like all of what my experience was. And those statistics come from rain, the anti-sexual violence organization in the U.S. But all of these things taught me that like, like I said, sex doesn't mean what everybody said.

Right. And it's the only reason that he gave me attention. So now I start to put together like sex is attention and validation and it doesn't have to be cherished like everybody said it. Yeah. Going back to kind of the beginning, people heal from experiences like that. They have to heal fast in order to not, like, crumble and, like, lose your day-to-day life. Right. And one of the most common experiences for people who have been sexually assaulted or raped is hypersexuality or what in therapy, we call it compulsive sexual behavior, which includes sex addiction, but also. includes just like risky behaviors and like masturbation addiction.

It can be a lot of things. I would call it for me hypersexuality and it was never extreme enough or risky enough to like get diagnosed or really cause anyone concerned. Like I kept it all under wraps, but it definitely was not age appropriate. I don't think. I made it my mission to like reclaim control of my sexuality after. that. But I didn't, it wasn't sexuality for my pleasure. Like it wasn't like this pleasure has been taken away. My control has been taken away. So I'm going to find out what I love and what I need.

It was like I'm going to be the best sex that my partners have ever had. Like, you know, in that, in that situation, I was powerless. So now like I'm going to be the best. Like I don't know. All the positions give the best blow jobs. Like that. was how I thought that I was going to reclaim it, which is hypersexuality. That's when I was really learning a lot of techniques, watching porn to figure out, like, what are the things that guys like? And it was very performative. Like, it wasn't, I don't know if you've heard the term like performative sex. Like there's genuine sex where you do things that feel good. And you are just like in the moment feeling the good feelings. And performative.

sex is like what we see in porn. It's like doing things just because the guy likes it or like super dominating the female because like that's what guys are into. It's not because I actually enjoyed it. It was just to like please them. And I got great feedback like I accomplished with that mission. But I never considered like my orgasm, my pleasure on the same level. And we'll also, there's like so many different sides of sex. Like you said, like there's the genuine sex where like if two people really love each other or like each other a lot and they're both just like so in the moment and it's just for the pleasure of both people mentally, emotionally, physically everything.

But then there's also like this sex, which I feel like can even in some ways is how like a guy will view it that just kind of like single and out just for that pure sexual pleasure or like performance. And I it's interesting because I feel like I never really thought. of things in this way, but growing up, like, especially in high school for me, I remember I'd always be like, I love giving head or like I would always send nudes. And I feel like I was so sexual. Like that was like my prime sexual time, which is weird because it was young. Like that's like 14 to whatever, 17. But it makes me wonder like where that, because I always did kind of wonder like

where does that come from like that I think about those things so much or whatever else. So I'd have to like really sit down and kind of go back and think. But it is interesting because there are, like you said, there are so many different, I think, ways to view sex that people don't even really think about. And I think it also just does, it can depend on where you are in life. Because where you were then, that's how you were viewing it. And obviously where you are now after like healing and kind of deep diving into your

own life, things you might view it differently and think of it differently now. But it's just so interesting because there are so many gray areas and even just sex. you know, that people don't even really consider and think about. Yeah. And you only know what you've had. Yeah. You can watch things, but like you only know your sexual menu is what a lot of people call. Like the things that you do, the things that you enjoy, the kind of sex that you have,

your menu, I mean, ideally, should expand over your lifetime. So at this point in my life, like high school, like you were saying, for me, the nudes, the like, I love giving head. Yeah. Like for me, that was to not be like the other girls. Like that was to get attention from guys and for them to be like, wow, she's so cool. Like she'll get on top without me even asking. Like that it wasn't necessarily because I enjoyed those things.

I mean, like when you start to discover your sexuality, you find yourself sexy. Like you want to take pictures. And it's fun in a way. But like I do agree that it's it isn't really for your own genuine pleasure. It's more so just to please that other person, whether it's for, validation or attention or whatever else. I think that for some reason that is something that you're more focused on. Like I definitely was like that also.

Yeah. And even like the nudes, like that's something that's so common. But at that age, like there's a reason that it's illegal. Like it is like looking back at the time I was like, this is great. Like I'm doing great. But looking back and like I was 14, like 15 and those pictures are likely out there somewhere. Right. I know. And like, I look back now that I'm older and I, you know, I know people are girls that are 14 and I'm like, I can't believe that I was having sex before. I didn't even know what I was. I mean, clearly I didn't know what I was doing. I remember that it was just like, I don't even know if it, if there were any pumps in there. But like I'm just like, and I wanted to. Like I wanted to so badly. And it was like this, the next day I think I even purposefully, because our school, it's like if you told one person something, it went around the whole school. It's like, I.

wanted the school to know that about me. Like it's just crazy looking back. And now, like I said, knowing girls that are 14, 15 now, I'm just like, it worries me to think. And they seem so young. Like, you're not ready for that. Trust me. But at that age, it just seems like something.

Like, I just wanted to do it so bad. And I wanted everybody to know that I did it. Right. Right. And I was the same way. I mean, I was like so curious. Just exploring everything, doing as much as I could. I didn't necessarily want people to know.

But that's also because my nudes got leaked and my high school went around. whole school and it wasn't until my senior year that anybody told me. And so I had these like, little five foot guys coming up to me like, oh yeah, I saw your nudes freshman year. And I'm like, yeah, cool. That's like legal. But, you know, it's just, yeah, it's so interesting. Like, at this point where my frontal lobe is fully developed, like age 25 is when your brain is like, which I like literally just learned recently. And it's so obvious. Like, so obvious. Like this year, I feel like mentally, I've realized. so many things and have had so many changes in my mind that I know like things you never thought

of. Yeah. And I never knew that until this year. And then when I felt like when I found out and heard about it, I was like, it's so true. Well, do you know about spiritual awakening? Yes. We're going to get there later. But same.

Like at the time, we were children. We were dumb. We thought we knew everything. But we were stupid. And looking back now, I can be like, these were things that like kids are going to do. But they were not healthy for me. mean, and the reasons that I was doing him weren't healthy. Let's see.

There were more risky behaviors. I was being catfished by a guy who I can only estimate was in his 40s or 50s. He gave me all the attention that I wanted, that I wasn't getting from my neighbor, that I wasn't getting from guys at school. Was this online? It was, oh, middle school, everyone goes on Omega, right? That was part of the, like, exploration. I met this guy. We started talking on Kik.

What's that? It was like a messaging app. Okay. I don't think I released that. Maybe I had it because I was living overseas. But it's like a, it's like before Snapchat. Like you can't send pictures, but it was just a messaging app that you didn't need, like a phone number for. And then it was Skype.

And he would just always give me reasons why he couldn't see me or like he didn't have a webcam. And I was like, it's literally like 2015. Yeah. talking about. And eventually I figured out, like, once I got a little bit older, I was like, this is a catfish, like, creepy, gross. Like, he was asking for pictures and things. And I would, but never met up in person, never gave him my address.

Thank God. Like, things could have happened, but they didn't. And actually, crazy. He's still active online. He faked his own suicide to stop talking to me once I told him, like, I have. figured out like I was like I'm pretty sure you're not 18 um and I told him that I was underage and he didn't care and I was like you never come on like I I know you're not who you say you are and so he said that he was going to off himself and then block me on everything but like literally

a month ago I logged into my old Skype um and he had been active days ago so he's still doing the same thing I'm trying to figure out what action can can be taking because I know that he's doing the same thing to other girls, but I don't want to like endanger myself. So stay tuned for updates on that. And I've taken that one slow and steady. Yeah, that's just a wild like side story. But that was like part of the risky behaviors, like talking to older guys online. Somebody on my high school volleyball team introduced me to seeking arrangements. And I started talking to guys on there 17 to 18 years old. And I think I went on a coffee date.

A guy showed up to my work at like Forever 21 and dropped off a Chipotle bag full of cash. Like I got hooked really fast, but it gave me the most intense anxiety of like knowing what these guys actually want and knowing that I'm 17 and I'm not going to do that. Our brains like can't even. Right. And I got like, that's when I really first experienced physical symptoms of anxiety. like spiraling, like rumination. And just another example of like things that I knew were wrong, but I wanted this control.

Oh my God. Kitty girl. She's here to make her appearance. Eventually, like I just hit rock bottom randomly. I called my mom at work and I was like, mom, like I've been talking to 40 year old men and I'm freaking out. And I know that it's wrong. And like I was just bawling on the phone.

And she gets like mom of the century award. And she was like, oh, I know it's tempting because, you know, because of this. And like, you want money. You want freedom. But like, you know that it's wrong. And, you know, just stop. And everything's fine. And like, honestly, I was, I was already.

I think she would scream and flip. But like, when I told my mom that I lost my virginity, oh, my God. And I only did it because I was scared. Like, I was scared that I was going to get pregnant. I was like, so I was like, I have to tell her before I get pregnant, which I didn't obviously. But anyway, continue. That's like, that's a really good mom.

It's good response. Honestly, like, I don't even think I would react that well, but she was so supportive. And that helped me walk away. I was like, okay, somebody knows. Like, I'm good. I can, like, get out of this. Because you had that support almost, like a positive support. Yeah.

In validation of like, I'm not a bad person. I'm not like a bad girl. Right. But you're curious. Right. Got out of that. And, but really the trend throughout high school, like knowing that sex is casual and that's why it gets men's attention, I had back-to-back relationships.

And this kind of like high school was the start of like serial monogamy. And it was hypersexuality, but like in the context of relationships. So I had, you know, like a freshman year boyfriend and then very shortly after sophomore boyfriend and then very shortly after that like an on and off boyfriend. And I think there were like weeks in between, months in between. Yeah. Sometimes they overlapped because one of my, like, my biggest high school ex, just, like, cheating back and forth all the time.

And I think, like, the cheating experiences and the rejection that I got from my neighbor, like that intense, like, I felt used and I felt rejected, is when I started developing, like, anxious attachment tendencies. So, like, you know attachment styles. They're mostly based on. your relationship with your parents when you're younger, but they're not static. Like they can change throughout your life. And I think my obsession with like boys, like I was boy obsessed and I was like very,

not sex obsessed, but like kind of. I think like I invested so much of myself and my energy into boys in high school that I developed anxious attachment from that. So like when my high school ex wouldn't text me back, it was like, like, oh, I bet he's cheating on me. And then I would like cycle and ruminate and just spin out of control or like, oh, like he was probably smoking weed. And then he drove, what if the car crashed? Like these are intrusive thoughts.

These are sometimes symptoms of anxiety, sometimes symptoms of OCD. But this was like when it really started ramping up. And I would only have these intrusive thoughts, which were like debilitating. Like I couldn't focus on anything. The only way to get out of that spiral was to fall asleep. Like I would be up for hours. Just all I could think about was like, what is he doing? And I'm sure when you woke back up,

it was still like immediately the first thing you would think up to. Right. And because he was like not the best boyfriend, he was 17, stupid. Sometimes I would wake up and there still wouldn't be a text and I would just keep worrying. Like that, it really started in high school. But I didn't have that about. school or work or family.

Just boys. Just boys. I'm literally the same way. So everything you're saying, like, I 125% relate. Yeah. And I feel like there's, like, parts of this that everybody can relate to, like, whether it's like the Omegel or the assault or, like, the purity culture, like, they're slight. They're not the most traumatic things in the world comparatively.

But what's so disturbing is that, like, so many people feel this way, like, have gone through this and feel like this. Let's see. Oh, when I told my parents about the assault, my senior year of high school, so supportive. My mom was like, you know, she told me the statistics and she was like, I know I told you not to become a statistic, but like you are and like how you recover from this is going to, not define you, but she was very clear about like this doesn't define you. who you are, but I took the experience and like empowered myself with it. In the car, when I told her, we were like at the beach. Like long car trip is when we always talk.

And I told her like, I think I would be a really good therapist because like, obviously this is unfortunate, but I have the empathy. Like I didn't understand victim blaming before. I didn't understand how somebody could blame themselves for something that somebody else did to them. and now I do and she was like you would like you should that's what you should pursue I had just graduated high school like she's like that's you know if that's what you want to do like fully supported and I kind of had an idea about sex therapy then because I've always loved sex like

always been interested but at that point I nailed down like okay I'm going to be a therapist I went into college and more risky behaviors but not quite a bad as high school. Obviously, I had a hoe phase, and I fully support that everyone at some point in their life should have a hoe phase. I agree. Like, say that so lovingly. Like, hos and sluts are positive words to me now.

And also, like, guys have hose phases. I feel like majority of their lives. So, like, you know, and I just, once again, it's like, I think that even to this day, sex is such a, it can be viewed out as this, like, so dirty. And, like, look, use your protection, be safe. I get it. But like once again, we are sexual beings. And I think that everybody should be free to embrace that in whatever way they want.

And whatever phaser. And some people want to be with one person for life. Great. Good for you. Wish I was like that I'm not. But like then there's people that just want to fuck the world. Fuck the world. You know what I mean?

Like I feel like everybody should be if we're free to do other things and have freedom of speech and freedom of this and that. Like you should be free to fuck whoever, whenever you want if that's what you choose to do. Right. And I mean, it changes all the time. Like you can want monogamy and then decide that you don't. Isn't it crazy that like you're considered guys and girls, you're considered a hoe or a slut because you fuck many people? Like that's just like it's weird to me like but because you don't then you're a same.

Yeah, or prude. Yeah. Like you know what I mean? It's just like it's crazy that you can be like whatever you choose to do. It's like frowned upon in a way. Oh, you can't win in any way. And it's all based on like puritanical. Like people came to the U.S. to like make it so like people could have freedom of.

religion, freedom of speech, but it's all still based in white Christianity. Right. So if you're not appeasing white Christianity by keeping your legs closed, then like you're the double. I also think too, like the more experience you have in relationships, because I always, for a while I think I beat myself up and thought the same kind of thing that you were saying of like, I looked back on my high school experience and I was like, I put all my energy and all my time into boys because I was so boy obsessed too and I was always in relationships.

and I wished that I didn't do that, but now I look at it and I'm like, but all of those relationships like dumb or not and whether, no matter how young I was, it gave me experiences. And it taught me so much like I much rather have done that than not have any experience or stayed in one relationship for so long. Because I feel like I, and I was cheated on a good amount too. I did the cheating too. You know, we're young and it's you're dumb. But I feel like because of those things I learned so much and I would never take any of that

back, good or bad, because I think that it made me who I am and I'm able to relate and kind of pick up on things. And I feel like be more aware than somebody. Because I, like, I have friends that were never cheated on. And that's not even a thought that goes through their mind. And I, at times, I wish it wasn't a thought that I had. But at the same time, I feel like at least I'm not naive and it's always a possibility. Yeah. You know what? Like, I'm prepared for because it's happened. I feel like it's just about, which I know you'll get to, but like kind of healing from that and accepting that you can't really control people, but... You have a deeper understanding.

Yeah. The more shit you go through, the more shit you understand. Right. That's why, yeah, that's why I think more experienced in every way is good. Yeah. And I used to feel insecure about, like, I call myself out on this, like, boyfriend of the year. I would, like, my high school boyfriends, my college boyfriends, when I go home to visit my family, they live far away.

So if they're just visiting my parents or, like, staying at the lake house, they're meeting my entire extended family. And I was getting comments of like, oh, like, boyfriend up the year. Like, what happened to that guy? And I felt so insecure. And I think one of my uncles stood up for me at some point and was like, she's doing what you should be doing. You should be having a lot of experiences and learning what traits you need and what traits you don't want and like sorting out. Because each person shows you, I like this or I don't like that. And if you didn't realize an experience that you're not going to know until maybe the next. expert and you don't want to get stuck in something.

Like it helps you. I feel like cut things shorter and shorter as you get older. Right. And not settle. So. Right. And I learned like all of my boyfriends. There were some great ones.

There were some awful ones. There were some just like silly ones that I never should have dated. But each of them taught me like something that I needed like that I now know. And like that has made me better at dating. I agree. But yeah. During my whole phase in college, I noticed. looking back that I had sex a lot of times where I didn't want to.

Like, I wasn't turned on. I didn't find them attractive, but we were already in the setting. And it was easier to just do it than to face the like, no, I don't want to. And like, then how is he going to react? Like, I, because of my early experiences and because I leaned so heavy into sexuality, I felt like no, wasn't an option. Like, it's easier just to say yes and do something you don't want to do. do then face the like the confrontation of it. And so like a lot of my sexual experiences like I had,

you know, orgasms probably half the time. But there were a lot, like looking back, like there were a lot of people and a lot of experiences that I wish. I just hadn't. Like I wish that I had said no. I wish that I hadn't put myself there. Even though like I fully agreed, fully consented in college. Like it was unnecessary. Like I didn't have. have a good time. I didn't want to. Um, and that was one of the biggest things that I've had to learn recently is like how to say no when you don't want to do something. Like, trust your gut. And like, you're the only person that's going to look out for you like the most in this world is yourself. So, um, yeah, I have more back to back relationships in college. I was single for like

six months freshman year. Um, but I started seeing a therapist for those anxieties. symptoms, the intrusive thoughts. And she pointed out that it's just relationships. And it's because I'm staying in a relationship that's not, well, she didn't like tell me this. A therapist should never like tell you what you're doing wrong. But she helped me see that like I was having so much anxiety because I knew it wasn't right for me, but I needed the validation. I needed the attention. And I would stay in it. I think a lot of women do this. Once you know it's over, you want them to fight and you keep trying to see if it'll work. And you could have broken up months ago, but you just stick it out just to, like,

just to try your hardest. And then by the time you're broken up, you're over it. You're like moved on the next week, back on Tinder the next day. Right. And that was my pattern. Like, I would stay in it too long until it wasn't healthy, break it off and immediately jump to somebody else. And even when I was single, like, there were always guys in the DMs. There were always like a flirt.

guy at this frat or like somebody from the a cappella group right or somebody you're interested in right there was backburners and like even if I wasn't in a relationship I was getting the validation the attention from guys um and sex at this point was good like it was better like I was having better sex I was still an orgasm gap but I was you know like kind of valuing my own pleasure but still very performative even with boyfriends I would say yes to sex when I didn't want to, just because I didn't want to disappoint them. Like I, this is the anxious attachment. Like, you'll, you'll go against your own wishes to keep your partner happy.

You're so afraid of abandonment or rejection that you'll do crazy things. Like, I shouldn't say crazy. That's okay. I'm a therapist. But I, you, you'll do anything to keep them, um, start fights or a lot of people cheat because that's like their bid. like for attention like I'm going to do this thing because I want you to care so much that you'll hang on to me. Yeah. And I think my last relationship in college, we broke up the week of

graduation, which like shattered me. I thought that like this was the rest of my life. Like I could have spent my whole life with this guy. And I immediately started dating someone else because I was like, if this is over, like it's over. Fuck it. And this is kind of where the two. And this is kind of where the turning point for me started to happen. I was just graduated in college, so I was 22. I graduated in December of 2020. And I think sometime in my college experience, back to like the sex therapist part of it, I took a sexuality studies class that put into words all of these things that I was experiencing, like performative sex, female pleasure, like sexism in general, sexual assault. Like we were talking about all these things. And I loved the way that like my old,

she was like 75 year old lesbian woman who wore like handmade skirts. And I was obsessed with her. And one day I just went into her office and I was like, I want to be a sex therapist. What should I do now? Like obviously you have to wait, grad school and all these things. Like what can I do? And she was like, go volunteer here. Start cold calling. Like message this sex therapy clinic. Tell them that you'll do social media for free. Like, she started giving me tips, like how to pursue this. And at that point, it was sealed. Like, in college, I was like, I'm good at sex.

I'm good at talking about sex. I am studying sex. Like, this is my thing. And so I'm kind of like jumping around between boys and school, but that's my whole life. When I started grad school, graduated undergrad with a major in communication study. minors in neuroscience and women and gender studies. And that was December of 2020 because I was like,

this pandemic sucks. Let me get out of college. And I started grad school, which is marriage and family therapy, master's degree with a specialization in systemic sex therapy. And I started that two weeks after I graduated. So it was like very quick. Yeah.

At the same time, I started dating the, I would say, the last guy of like my dysfunctional era. I wanted that validation after the heartbreak of like my person breaking up with me. I needed something like fast to cope. And he was a great guy like such a good guy. But that's what I was doing it for. And I didn't realize it at the time. And like incredible man, but we're so incompatible. Like they're just our lifestyles like things didn't align. but I needed somebody to tell me that I was like beautiful and great at sex and awesome and wonderful.

And I started feeling that anxiety again. And I saw another therapist who had me rate all the areas of my life. Like there was a circle. Yeah. Like school, your career, your relationships, your friendships, your social life. And I rated my relationship high, but I related, I rated everything else really low. Like I don't have a lot of friends. I don't go out.

I don't feel like I'm doing good in my career. Eventually, she helped me see that like my doubts of the relationship weren't intrusive thoughts. They were genuine. But I just wasn't taking them seriously. And eventually we broke up. And she had me rate all of those areas again. And I rated my love life zero, but I rated everything else like eight, nine, ten.

Yeah. And that's when it. clicked for me that I invested so much in boys and relationships and sex that like to the expense of my entire life like I cared so much about making my boyfriend happy getting validation from men that I let my friends go. I like I wasn't taking care of my physical health like I stopped working out because I was hanging out with my boyfriend all the time like I was I was right I was just investing so much. And that's like anxious attachment that happens to a lot of people. They feel like they lose themselves in their relationship. And at the same time, I was learning how to be a therapist.

So I was taking all these classes about like attachment styles and like dysfunctional patterns and how you're influenced by all the people around you. It's not just you. It's not just the things that happened to you. It's the people and the culture that you're in. And I was starting to pick up things and be like, oh, I do that. Like this is a pattern that I do. Like it just keeps going. Um, and I need to like break it. Cause obviously my end goal romantically is like to get married and to be happy for

the rest of my life. But the pattern that I'm doing is not working. Like I keep having serious relationships, year long relationships, but they keep ending and I jump so fast. and something about this is wrong. Like, they don't all end the same way, but I'm the common denominator. It's not that these men are bad, all of them. Also, I think when we had our love doctor on, he was saying, too, that it's very common

and normal without us even realizing it, but we tend to go for the same type of person or each person that we go, like before we really heal and, you know, kind of realize what we're doing, it's normal for you to keep going. Even if two guys don't seem the same, they like sometimes have something very similar that's underlying that you don't even realize you're going for because it's a pattern that you haven't broken yet. And that's like, I mean, I even realize if with myself,

I'm like, why do I keep ending up with guys that do this or don't do this? And even though they're such different people, they keep, I keep ending up with the same fucking issues. And I'm like, okay, so that means I'm the issue because it's like even if I don't think I want this kind of person, I'm clearly going for the same characteristics or the same, you know, and it's not actually what I want, but it's like this pattern I'm stuck in and I'm not going to get out of until I feel like genuinely I'm truly alone for a little bit and like really just work on myself and have self-love and

heal through all the bullshit. Exactly. And I mean, that's one of the hardest things for people to accept is like, okay, if this does not account for cases of trauma or abuse, like that's never your fault. Like those experiences, it's the responsibility is on that person. But if you're like us and you're picking relationships that just aren't working, like they're not that healthy and you're tempted to say like men suck, like all men suck. Right.

The truth of it is, and I try to tell my friends this and they don't want to hear it, like your picker is off. Yeah. You're picking all the people that you're in relationships with and they might have flaws, but something about them is drawing you to them. Yep. and it's not working. So like you have to fix something.

Like not saying you're the problem, but you're kind of the problem. Yeah. Well, also you're not going to settle and choose these kind of people once you actually are where you need to be. Right, right. And that's what I went through. I went to my therapist and I was like, I see the pattern. I know what the pattern is and I need to completely break it. And I went on a celibacy break where I got off dating apps.

I cut off all of my backburn. boys. Oh, that shouldn't be a phrase that I ever say. And I like, like no sex for a couple months, I just completely stopped. And that might not sound like a long time, but for me, like, that's unheard of since I was 13, like I've never been on my own. And that's the cliche. Like, everyone says, like, you need to love yourself before you can love other people. And I was like, but I already do love myself. Like, I think I'm hot. I think I'm cool. I think I'm smart. Right. But I didn't really get it. No.

Deep down, there's like you're lacking a lot. I'm literally like as you're talking, I can't even express it enough. Like we're so similar. Yeah. I swear I'm not just saying it. But like it's weird because it's like you could look at yourself and be like, well, I don't think I'm ugly. I mean, everybody has their days. But it's like I don't look in the mirror and think I'm not attractive.

And I know I have great qualities. But it's something like deep down that it's, I think because you don't want to be alone, that like that's where the lack of self love comes. because you should know that like, like, and it's weird too, because I know if I really had to be alone, I could, but it's like you don't want to. It's like you always want that, that security and that comfort and that validation. It's like, because you don't, you're not comfortable enough within yourself to just like, let it go and just be alone. Because if somebody like, even on the day to day, like, if some, who, I can't imagine,

like, does me back then, like, a guy's not going to text me all day and like, who am I going to tell the minute details. Right. Right. Exactly. My phone's so dry. It's like it becomes, it's an addiction. It's definitely an addiction.

It's like it becomes, it gets to a point too where it's like, there was a point that I was like laying in my bed. This was kind of recent. It's kind of like fucked up. But I was like laying there and I'm like, I really am convinced that I'm in a point in my life that I could probably fall in love with anybody. You know what I mean? Because it's like you start to just accept.

It's weird. It's like I have expectations, but I settle for like these low standards because it's the most like easier. And you want to just, right, you want love. Right. You want love so bad that it's like you're just willing to, well, whoever just falls into place. And it's sad because you really should, not that you should be, I mean, everybody should

be picky to a certain degree of like what they deserve and want and need. But it's just like you should have certain things laid out for yourself that you don't settle for anything below that. Not because it's, not because of the person, but because you've worked, you know, you're at an age and you've gone through enough that you know what you want. And settling less for that is a waste of time. time at this time of your life, you know, because that's how I look at it. It's like when I was in high school and even college, it's almost like I feel like I had more time to experiment,

not really waste, but to date around. And I don't really, I don't know. I feel like I've done it since I've been 14, 13, 14 that I'm like, I don't want to date anymore. Like I want to find my person and somebody that I'm compatible with in so many ways, but then at the same time we teach each other. And it's just, it's healthy. And you need all the bullshit experiences to know what that is. Right. Yeah, no, I totally agree. And it wasn't until I fully, like, cut the boys off.

Yeah. That every area of my life, like, thrive. Oh, I'm sure. I know. Trust me. Yeah. I rekindled old friendships. I made a bunch of new friends, although I had to go on BFF, and that's humbling.

No, yeah. Like. Sometimes you got to do it. Right. I made all these friends. I started, I had always wanted to like share what I'm learning in sex therapy grad school because like these are the insider secrets that everyone should know like we should be talking about this. So I started a TikTok and it blew up and then it got banned. But it like at this time like where I finally took my time and energy from boys and put it into myself, everything like clicked.

Everything fit. And it got to a point I think about seven or eight months after that relationship. ended that I was like my life is so good that the only way I would enter into a relationship now is if he understands that my life needs to stay this good and like I give my 100% to relationships and to sex like that's that's who I am but the 100% can't take away from all of the other good things in my life and that's when I knew that I broke that cycle because like originally relationships were comfortable. Like, I felt, you know, safe.

I felt supported. I felt validated. And now, well, not like immediately now. But at that point where everything turned around, I was like, my life is so good. A man has to only add positive. Like, I don't, it's uncomfortable to enter the relationship, but I'm only, I'm only entering a relationship that feels completely right. And eventually, after a long time of celibacy and not dating.

my current boyfriend walked up to me at a bar and was like, what's up? And I mean, like, I truly believe that all of the things, all of the relationships, all those experiences

have created me into the person that I needed to be to be with him. Oh, absolutely. Like, I talked to this therapist once and she had told me that, like, where, she was basically just saying that, like, where you are now is not, like, you're not going to,

find the person you want to be with. Like who you want, you're not ready for them yet. Like basically you need to be alone and kind of like tap into your feminine side and really just find yourself and spend a lot of time alone and love yourself. And it's not until that that you're going to be ready for the person that you want because you're just, you're not there yet. And I 100% agree with that. And it's interesting too because like what you were just saying for so long, it seemed easy.

to have that comfort and just date around and have a guy there. And even now, it's still that addiction and I still feel that. But more recently when I have those breaks or those times where I'm really not talking to anybody and I have that switchover, it doesn't last long still. I'm getting there. But I have that switchover of like, okay, it's time to focus on myself. For those few minutes, I feel the shift of like 100% being focused on that guy to like 100% being like, okay, no, my podcast, my animals, like my life, my happiness. And like,

it is the best feeling when you actually just realize that you can put all of your energy into yourself. But then it's that addiction creeps back in. You're like, wait, but like I still want to talk to a guy. And I still want my phone to like be right. Like you want those phone calls. You want those texts and that company. So it is hard. But I think that I like, like I said, I feel like this is the first time in my life that I can feel how important that, like, what's the word, not solitude, but how important it is to kind of take that time. I hate the word self-care, but it really is, though, yeah. Taking all of that energy that you're like going on day.

It's more like the energy of it. Like to put that energy into yourself for even just like a little bit of time makes the biggest difference because if you're so even, even if it isn't guys and it's something out, it can even be work sometimes. Like if all your energy is in one place, you're not going to be able to sprinkle it in the other areas. And it just, you know, I just feel like everything should be more balanced than in just one area.

Yeah. Yeah. And it definitely, like, a lot of my healing was realizing that I still love sex. Sex is great. And relationships are fun. And I'm a relationship person. Like, I'm a good partner now. Right.

But, like, but it can't be all your energy. It can't be your entire life. Like, I still think it's a fair thing to say zero or a hundred. Like, yeah. I'm a zero or a hundred kind of person on everything. Me too, yeah. But you can give your relationship 100 while still giving yourself 100. And that's such a cliche.

Like, people say that. If somebody said that to me five years ago, I would have been like, whatever. Like, yeah. That I'm already confident. I'm already like on a good career track. I just like dating. But looking back, like, it took up so much energy. And, oh, going back to spiritual awakening.

things, this process of like therapy school was giving me the tools that I needed to figure these things out and to sort through it. And it's actually like required in order to be a therapist. You have to like figure your shit out. And I told my parents this and I would tell people this. And I think they thought I was a little bit losing my mind. But I was like I feel like my brain, like the way that I think about things, the way that I feel about things exploded. And is now like reorganizing. Like the Kylie Jenner quote of like, this is just a year of realizing things. Like I'm just realizing a lot of things.

It's so true. Like that has been like the past two years of my life. It's probably my frontal lobe fully developing. Right. It's like you get this wall of like I can't continue the same patterns. And it's almost like because I feel like of that like 25 year old frontal lobe thing. It's like you, your brain doesn't allow it anymore. It's almost like harder to stick with the old patterns than it is to try to change it. That's what it feels like even like I mean even kind of for myself with like only fans.

Like I feel like when I started it, I was such a different person. Like I've always been somebody that even before I had my boobs done, I was like flashing and I didn't care. It seemed so perfect for me because I was so open with my body. And it took me until recently to realize like I thought in my head like, oh maybe I've just grown up and I've changed and that's why my interest isn't the same. but honestly I just feel like I've just changed so much. Like the way that I view sex and my sexuality is so much different now at 25 than it was at whenever I started 23 or something, I don't know. But I'm just different and I feel different and I don't view those things the same as I once did.

And it's like I don't regret it at all. But like it's harder for me to get myself to go on there and do it. Whereas at one point that was fun for me. I don't find it as fun anymore. But I did want to ask you too like when you got into you're really, relationship now, right? You're still with the same. Yeah. So when you got into that relationship, did you realize that you were viewing and treating sex differently than in your other ones? Yeah. In terms of love, because that's the easier one to just go. I, when I, we talked, we were friends.

We hung out. It was very, like, healthy the way that it started. And I told him, like, I don't want to be in a relationship because I always lose myself in relationships. And I don't want that to happen again. and eventually like it just naturally clicked and he was like I won't let that happen like if I start to see you slipping on something that I know brings you joy and like brings you energy like I will step back so that like not step back but like I will help you to realize that and like not lose it and that's where I was like okay this is like this is the level that I need to be at to be a good partner like to be a good future wife like these are the qualities that I had to learn the hard way to figure out.

I mean, I'm not perfect. I'm sure in 10 years I'm going to look back and be like, she thought she knew what she was talking about. But in terms of sex, in that celibacy period, I think the first guy that I hooked up with who like, we didn't date, it was just casual. For some reason, and I think I was a little tipsy the first time that we had sex, I did not care what my body looked like.

I didn't care what he thought of how I was performing. I was completely out of my own head and just like fully in the moment. And honestly, it was a very spiritual experience. Like not because of him. Like literally who's this guy. I don't know his last thing. But just to be out of your own head and not care about those things is probably so freeing. And it was, it was regardless, like, it doesn't matter who he was.

it was the experience for me of like this kind of sex when you're not thinking like does this position make me have roles or um oh i should get on top because guys like that yeah or i look good am i making him feel good like just being in the moment yeah and honestly concentrating on myself like i don't have a difficulty like reaching orgasm but i always thought that i took too long like it was too hard like i take a lot of work and when i got out of my head and stopped worrying about like oh god it's been 15 minutes and I still haven't like he's going to get bored when I got out of that and just felt the feelings it was fast and it was multiple and it was easy like all like my therapist told me this at one point she's like most of the problems in your life are all in your head yeah

absolutely and once I was able to get out of that um sex changed yeah and at that point I was already in school to be a sex therapist I I thought I had my stuff down. Yeah. I thought I knew everything. Like I have these tips and tricks. But it wasn't until I fully like let go of the control freak of the self-consciousness around it that like I, like I, it's a totally different kind of sex. Like when you can let go and just experience it and value my pleasure equal to the person that I was with.

Like it's not about being the best for him, pleasing him. It's about both of us in this moment doing this together. Well, it's interesting too because I feel like that even, it doesn't even have to be about love, but it's more like just like you said, being present in the moment and enjoying sex for what it is. Like even, which is like I said, it's interesting because there's going to be people that are listening to that aren't in relationships. So it's like it's good to know that you can still feel those things. Sorry, Kenny. You can still feel those things without being in love.

Like you should be able to enjoy sex the same way. Obviously when you're with somebody, I think that does add. different sparks and different feelings and you're on a different emotional level. But like as far as the sexual pleasure goes, you should still be able to, you know, feel those good things without having to have that focus of am I pleasuring the other person or how do I look? Because that's such a big thing I think is being so self-aware during moments like that. And it's like, how can you enjoy yourself when that's all that's in your head? Yeah. And there's this thing that we talk about in terms of like desire or mourniness, which is,

the dual control model, there's a brake pedal and a gas pedal. And all of those thoughts that, okay, so like the gas pedal is what you think, things that turn you on, maybe it's watching porn, maybe it's gray sweatpants, maybe it's like kissing your neck. Like all of the things that turn you on hit your gas. But all of those thoughts of like, I don't, I feel bloated today. Or am I taking too long? Or like, is this good for him? Those are all press on your break, like neurologically.

And even if you're like a little bit turned on by things, if your break is pressed down harder than your gas, you're not going to go anywhere. You're not going to reach orgasm. You're not going to feel. I think that's me. Maximum pleasure. Yeah. And my thing is like my gas pedal is perfectly fine, but I had so many things on the break that like it

would take a long time. Or when I did reach orgasm, like it wouldn't be like as big as I thought it was. And it was because like I had the good things, but I had so much weighing me down too. And so a lot of it was letting go of that. And like, I still have body image issues, but with sex, like, they're already there. They're already, they already want to have sex with you. They're already attracted to you. They're not going to, like, stop as soon as you take your clothes off.

So, like, that I kind of was able to put aside. And I know at this point, like, the techniques, the skills, whatever, I know they're good. So I don't have to worry about it. It's good for him. Right. And that's like something that a lot of people face is like your gas pedal might be tough to start. Like it might be harder to pull up, but there's nothing on your break. Like it's so different for everybody.

And it's these two different systems. There's something you said earlier too about, oh, yeah, when you're having sex with somebody in a relationship or not casual sex, one night stand, even for only fans, even for content. The love isn't what can make it that like super transcendental experience. It's just acknowledging that like even if you aren't in love with the person, you're in this moment together and this is a connection that nobody else will ever understand. Like it's you and it's them and it's you guys like connecting in the most human way possible. Obviously not emotionally, like physically the most human natural way. And it's such like a, I mean, I would say like divine, like spiritual thing.

Like nobody can understand exactly what that connection is. And you don't have to have love for it to be incredible and amazing. But you have to open yourself up and like fully experience the moment without all of those distractions or like concerns. It's easier said than done. Yeah. It took me 24 years to stop stressing about that stuff. And I think too, it takes besides. like the self-work like we said, I think it just takes a lot of self-realization and realizing

like these are things that I'm thinking about during sex that are like distracting me or the set in the other night. I feel like when you, I don't know, I think there's so many things that you could do to kind of work on yourself or work through that. But it's difficult. Like even just thinking in my head of like experiences of sex and like the things that I think about and reasons why a lot of times I don't orgasm for so many reasons. And some of those reasons could even be out of your control. Like if the other person's doing something that's making you think. Like I think when it comes to that, either you communicate or you guys just aren't

compatible. Like I think it's that simple. But like there's just so many factors. But I do think that whether it's romantic or just for sexual pleasure, I think it's going to, you'll know if it's somebody that it's like, we're both in this moment and it's great and it's good. And if it's not, then like don't force it kind of thing. Because you can tell when a guy is doing it for himself.

Like I feel like, at least. me. I think most women have this spiky sense of like he's like he's going and he's not really thinking about you. Like you can kind of feel when there's disconnect and you can really feel when you're fully connected. But I think a lot of it is also like in terms of like female orgasm is nobody teaches techniques. No. Like sex ed is all scare tactics. The only things that you learn that most men learn is from porn. And a lot of times, like mainstream porn, like big industry, multi-billion industry porn isn't a reflection of what sex really is like. And so in terms of like taking a long time to reach orgasm, when I thought like, oh, I'm like a tough

cookie, it takes a lot. A lot of times people just didn't know what they were doing. And I didn't realize that I wasn't the problem until I knew how to instruct. I knew how to say, like do it this way or like don't even bother. That's not going to work. Right. And that's easier in a relationship than it is with a hookup. Right. And sometimes it just matches up perfect and natural.

Yeah. Some people just got it. They got them at touch. Yeah. But there's such a wide variety of experiences and like things that you can be interested in and techniques that you can do and everyone's desire levels are different. And I guess tying it back to like where I'm at now, I start seeing clients in September. Oh, exciting.

I know. Actually, this morning, who I hoped to be my future boss, DM'd me and was like, I just found your account. Oh, so cool. What are you doing? When are you going to start working here? Yeah. Which I was like, wow, like today too. That's kind of crazy.

That's awesome. But. So like, explain exactly like what being a sex therapist entails, because I'm curious. Yeah. So in terms of my education, you need an undergrad degree in pretty much anything. You need a master's degree in. some kind of counseling or therapy. I decided to go marriage and family therapy because it's the most like direct.

I don't love kids. So mostly it's about the marriage. But then I chose this program because it had a specialty of sex therapy. And I already knew like that's what I wanted to do. So you have to be a licensed mental health counselor, like a therapist. Mine will be LMFT. And it's pretty much like whenever you have any kind of problem, you can go to a therapist. So a sex therapist is focused just on sexual problems.

It could be individual. It could be relationships. It could be like polysystems, like polyamorous. But a lot of times they're so like evolved and self-aware that they don't really need therapists as much sometimes. But it could be like sexual dysfunctions like erectile dysfunction, vaginismis. A lot of people go through menopause and nobody talks about. the changes that happen with menopause and like you do need to use lube and like your vagina can atrophy and so people come to therapy thinking like something's super wrong and they just need

a little bit of like education and reassurance um one of the most common things is a desire discrepancy where like most the time it's like guy wants to have sex every day and his girlfriend could do it once a month and be happy right and so they come to therapy thinking that like she doesn't want it enough or he wants it too much. And it's neither of those things. It's just that you're different and you have to find like a middle ground. Yeah. It can also be like relationship problems.

And a lot of it is rooted in shame. Like a lot of people come to therapy for all of these different reasons. And it's because it's not because what they're experiencing is affecting their life. It's the shame that they're feeling is like overwhelming. And I think too, like sex is such a sensitive subject. Especially, I just feel like for guys and girls. And even if you have really good communication, I think as soon as something feels off, it's such like it's such a heavyweight when you're in a relationship especially because

it's like as soon as that like the road gets bumpy a little bit and two people aren't just like cruising it on the same page and just enjoying it, I just think that it can be uncomfortable and it can feel way worse than it actually. is and I think that that's probably where it's great for someone like you to come in because it almost like eases those stresses and makes people realize like this is normal and like here's some tips on how you could get through it you know and it's like but I think that it's so common for people to just like if if that's even remotely off or even if because I think it's so common too that when you're in a relationship for a little bit um to kind of lose that want and desire like

obviously in the beginning you're like you're wanting to have sex like fucking rabbits but then it towards the end. It's like, eh, like you were saying, like a girl might be like, I really don't feel like I need it as much. Like I care and love you. That's all that matters. And it's like they don't have that desire. But obviously it is healthy to have sex.

And that is, you know, an important part of relationship too. So I feel like instead of, because I think it's really easy to beat yourself up and think what's wrong with me. Is it this? Is it that? Or why don't I want to have sex anymore? But I feel like that would be, that's like good for people to talk to someone like you about because it is so normal.

And it is something I feel like could easily be. worked out and understood. I think that's a main thing is people just don't understand like why, why we feel these ways or why these things tend to happen. But there's always ways out of it. Because, you know, I'll talk to my friends sometimes and we'll be like, isn't it crazy how you can date someone you love for like a few years and that sex drive just fades? And then you meet somebody else and you want to fuck them all the time in the beginning and then you're back to where you were before. And it's like if that pattern keeps happening, you have to like figure something out so that because then you're never going to be satisfied or be able to be in a

long-term relationship and constantly happy and pleased sexually if it keeps going back to that same pattern yeah what was the conclusion you and your friends came to about like how to not let that like we didn't we do you have a conclusion i mean i don't have answer like serious answers yeah but a lot of people assume that like sex therapy like help we've been married for five years and we need to spice up our sex life because like we've had kids or we've just been together and like the spark is gone. Um, but like according to like sex therapists, sex should contribute 15 to 20% of a positive, exciting, energizing like energy to your relationship. But when something's wrong, it makes that percentage bigger and it becomes negative. Like if you are having less sex and then you're like

something has to be wrong, like something must have. be off. Like, why is this happening? Sex goes from being like 15% of your relationship to like 50. And then you're fighting about it. Okay. That's, I don't know where that percentage came from. But they said, like, sex shouldn't be your whole relationship.

But it should contribute a little bit. But in terms of like staying sexually, like exciting and like wanting to have sex with your partner all the time, like the good enough sex model is this school of that. There's books about it. where like not every time you have sex is going to be mind blowing and that's fine. Right. Like I don't remember the percentages, but like 10% of your sex is going to be mind blowing. 50 is going to be like good.

And sometimes it's just going to be like what was that? Right. What today's an off day? Like something was weird. But in terms of keeping it like fun, you have to make an effort. You have to schedule sex. And you can do it in fun ways. like there's a myth of spontaneity like, oh, the best sex is like just random, like, take me right now.

But when you're together for a long time, like you're in your routines. That's not happening. So you can schedule it. You can book an Airbnb for the weekend and like make it a sex weekend. Yeah, I was going to say too, like I think that that's something that I've realized is that getting, like forcing yourself out of that comfort zone and sometimes it's not even forced, but like being on a vacation and being out of your normal routine can even be. make this, even if it's the same sex or the same way that you've, you've been doing sex at

home, it'll feel different and it'll feel better and just more exciting and I think just like better vibes because you put yourself in a different environment. And it's like sometimes the simplest things like you said can just kind of give you that extra oomph because I think it's very easy to get stuck in a pattern and stuck in comfort. Comfort's so easy. And like once you're in it and like routine, it's like it almost seems like a burden to get yourself out of it. But if you just, I mean, relationships are obviously, you have to put in work. And I know people, some people don't agree with that. But I do think at a certain point, you definitely do.

Even if you're with the most compatible person in the world. And honestly, like, making time and effort for sex is part of that work because that's not always going to fall in place. And there's, you're at the end of the day, no matter how similar compatible people are, you're always going to be in different head spaces and different scheduling. So it's like you always have to figure it out. But I just took all the words out of my mouth. Maybe I was going to be a sex therapist. Right? Like relationships take work, careers take work, friendships take work, too.

And people think like, oh, if you have to put an effort, then it's not natural. The spark isn't there. Like, no, you're just the honeymoon phase ends or the limerence phase. And like at the longest it might be a year. And then you have to figure out like how to put in effort to keep things fun. And I think there's this rule like you, not a rule, but something that I like to live by is like, introduce something new every three months. Like, you know, everyone has their sexual menu.

You start with oral and then you do this and then this position and then everyone finishes in this position because it works. Like it's efficient. It feels good. Like that's your menu. That's like your comfort zone. But then every month or every couple of months, you say like, let's try this. Like add a toy or like I have a little bit more control.

Like just adding in things. that you've kind of been interested in or you see somewhere, but you've never done, even just like once every few months can really like, it keeps it fun. It keeps it entertaining. And you don't want to, you know, if you walk the same path every single day, it gets boring. So like, like you said, adding those little things in can make something seem like completely new and exciting, which is so important in anything you do for that matter. And I mean, like, sometimes people get stuck of like, what do we try? I don't want him to think that I'm weird or like, I don't want her to think that I'm some kind of like deviant or whatever.

But like, honestly, it's just opening the conversation of like, what weird stuff are you into? Right. And they have quizzes. So you don't actually have to talk face to face, but like email him the quiz and it's 400 questions. Like, um, like, are you into this? Are you like what are your boundaries? And they have everything. They have like the vanilla stuff to like the hard.

core. Right. Pink. Yeah. And you answer yes, no, maybe. And it only gives you the answers that you both say yes or maybe too. And I think too, it's important for people to know that if somebody, I don't want to say if they care enough, but if they, what would be the word for that?

Care is not the right word. But if they're like willing enough to like want to please you and please themselves, they'll be willing to like talk about those things and take those quizzes and figure out like to how to get on the same page and how to experience new things. So if somebody's not willing to do that and they're very hardheaded, that's not the right person to be having sex with anymore, in my opinion. Because you're never going to get to, you know, everybody hits that phase of like needing to experiment and try new things. So if somebody's not willing to kind of go past that wall with, like with you, then screw them. And what's so hard is people, you don't have to be into the same things.

You don't have to have the same kinks. I'm like specializing in my specialty, like ink kinks kind of. But like, you don't have to be into the same thing. You just have to be willing to try things. And like, you might not get pleasure from this part. But it brings your partner pleasure. And that should make you happy. Absolutely.

And then, like, they return the favor in different ways. Like, you don't both have to be into, I'm trying to think of examples. Give me a kink. Eating ass. Yeah. You don't both have to be into that. But if one person is willing and the other person is interested, that work. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, consensual. Like, don't do something you don't want to do.

Don't eat ass if the ass doesn't want to be eaten. Right. You don't have to love having your ass eaten. But if you're willing to do it and it doesn't bother you and your partner gets off on it, then like that's a new thing that you can do together. And it's all about like communicating. And I know sometimes it could be more difficult depending on, you know, the comfort and the relationship that you are or are not in with the person. But I think that it's always important. I think if you're open enough and secure enough with. within yourself, you're going to want to have those conversations. And once again, if somebody doesn't want to have that conversation, then they're probably not the right person to be involved with. I feel like a lot of people, I hear it from a lot of women, especially in college. My friends would be like, you know, like the beginning of a relationship, like the sex was so hot.

Like I wanted it all the time. And gradually, I'm just not interested in even like getting the ick. Like when your boyfriend like initiates. It's happened to me in the past. And it happens to a lot of people where like for it seems like no reason randomly. Yeah, you just are like, I don't really want to. Right. Or don't touch me as much.

But then once you do, it's fun and it's great. That's true. But you don't like seek it out. You don't really want it. The desire isn't there. Until you start doing it. And I had people ask like, am I asexual? Like do I have a super low sex drive?

And then they would break up and realize that like they're ready again. They're horny as fun. And it was just the context that they were in. And some of it might be skill, like your boyfriend might need like a couple of lessons on like how to do new things that are like really pleasurable. Sometimes people need to be taught new things. And sometimes like you need to put the effort in to make things fun again. But like your horniness, your desire levels depend. It's not just physical.

It's not just how much hormones you have or like obviously your period affects things. Like it's not just your body. It's are you feeling like mentally turned on? Are they meeting your emotional needs so that you actually want to have sex? If your boyfriend is just like sitting around the house and not doing any chores and not helping you, you start to feel like his mom and you don't want to have sex with your child. Right. And like all factors.

I think that's important for people to know too is like so many different life factors. can play a role in that. Like if, like you just said, if somebody is turning you off in other ways in their relationship, like no shit, you're not going to want to have sex with them because you lose that attraction for so many different reasons. And then two,

even if you're stressed and going through a lot in your own life, it might not be the first thing on your mind to have sex. You might just want to wind down and relax and really not talk to anyone, which is normal too. So, yeah, I think all those things are important to remember. Stress is the number one thing that pushes on that break.

pedal. Like, research has documented if you're stressed, it's way harder for you to get turned on. It's way harder for you to want sex. It's way harder for you to reach orgasm. Like stress is the number one thing that, like, pushes your desire down. And something that changed my life that I think everybody should know is there's two different kinds of desire. There's spontaneous and responsive.

Have you heard of this? No. Okay. It might change your life. So for me, I, so people with spontaneous desire, majority of men have this where like they see something and they immediately get horny. And they're like, okay, I'm ready for sex. Like something turns them on, some kind of like something in the environment or even in their head.

And they are instantly horny. The spontaneous desire is like you see something horny. Responsive desire is you don't automatically want it. Like you don't want it until there's a reason for you. you to want it. Right. And a lot of women are like this. I didn't explain that the best way. But for me, it was like, I don't want sex, but once it's happening, I'm so into it. Yeah. It takes somebody else starting. It takes them initiating and like eating you out for 10 minutes or like fingering you, teasing you, whatever for you to want sex. And that, like, that's well

documented, like there are two different systems. And a lot of people will say, like, I think I have a low sex drive, but really, they just have responsive desire. They need something, they need stimulation before they want it. Yeah, like, I'm that way too. Like, I feel like I've never been the kind of girl. And maybe this is too, just from like different experiences that have happened. But I've never, there's some girls that'll just like, if they want it, they'll just go for it. And I'm not like that. Only because, too, like, I know how it feels not to be in the mood and then feel like you kind of of like are pressured because the other person is. So I feel like for me I kind of wait to see that it's very obvious that both people

are in the mood to do something. And then I just feel like it'll just happen or like maybe the guy will like rub upon me or start kissing me. And then if I want that, I'll do, I'll give that back. But like I'm never the kind of girl that just like straddles a guy and starts making out with him. And is like trying to take his pants on just because too like I don't know. I've also been with a lot of guys that like sex isn't their main concern.

So it's just like I think that kind of too has made me more standoffish towards it. And kind of just be like, well, if they want it like they'll tell me. And like I'm always down because I'm 25 years old and I'm ready to go. But like and if you're next to me like I'm, you know, I'm just, I don't know, I'm just like that. But yeah, it's just interesting because I feel like it's very, sometimes it can be hard to read like when both parties are ready. But then there's the people that I feel like are always horny and you're like they could, you know, they could go at any time. But it's just interesting because like the more people I've been with. I start to see like how so many different people respond differently to like, you know,

if you're in it like at one point you might be in a thong and somebody might be like have a boner right away and then another person might just like be fine laying there. So it's like it's interesting to see because then they might be more of a responsive person too and not just act on things. Yeah. And I think a lot of times when there's a difference, the always horny guy is spontaneous. Yeah. He'll just randomly be like, I'll have sex right now.

Right. But for a lot of women, I mean, some women are spontaneous and like live in their best life. Right. But for like me and a lot of women, it's like not that you have to be talked into it because I've literally just explained like, that's an awful thing. But you say yes because you're willing, but you're not really horny. Yeah. But then once things start, you're like, okay, I'm good.

And that is like just a different kind. It doesn't mean that you have a low sex drive. Right. It doesn't mean that you don't want sex with your boyfriend. It just means that you don't want sex until it's already started. Yeah. And a lot of times when people are different like that, they'll just say like, oh, she, she's not as interested in sex. But once you can, once you know and once you talk to each other about like, you're spontaneous, I'm responsive.

Like, if you want me to have more sex, you need to like start, just start things. Like obviously when everybody is comfortable, but like you need to eat me out for 15 minutes and then I'll want sex. Right. Or you have to also recognize in yourself if you're the one with responsive desire, like willingness leads to horniness. Instead of asking like, do I want sex right now? You can ask yourself like, am I open to it? Right. And if you're open to it, then you start it, then you want it.

Like blanket statement. Never do something you don't want to do. But if you know that that's your desire type, like I love sex, but I also know I have responsive desire. So if I don't, if I say no every time I'm not like instantly in the mood, I would rarely have sex. Yeah, exactly. But I know that like, oh, he's horny.

I'm willing. 10 minutes later, we're on the same page. Exactly. So you just have to know and you have to know your partner and have like at least one conversation. Yeah. And I think like you said, that's like important to remember too is being open. with yourself and like being willing like you know obviously like you said as long as you want

you know everything's consensual and you want to but I think like being more willing and open and saying like yeah I would be willing to do this like let me try you know instead of just like automatically like no I'm not horny right now because it's I feel like that's so normal to is you're not not everybody's going to be horny all the time or even in the right times you might not feel like you want to so it's all about thinking if like could I could I be maybe let's see let's try it out And the spark in a new relationship going back to like it fading out, a lot of times relationship, like new relationships are so exciting that you're both spontaneous. Yeah.

And then once you get comfortable, you both go back into your like natural state. So one person might be responsive. And then you think we're having less sex that it's fading away. But really it's just like you lost that new exciting energy and you just need to change the way that you're initiating. Like change the way that. you're starting it because you don't always want to jump each other's bones. Like you, I hate that saying.

I don't know why. I thought it was funny. I liked it kind of. I'm going to put that one on the no thank you. Yikes. But it's not that like you don't want sex anymore. It's just that you're comfortable with this person and you like he needs to initiate this way or you need to tell him like, I still want to have sex with you. It just takes a little bit more like chase.

Right. you know um and it's such a hard balance of like it takes time every yeah talking into it or like getting adjusted but you can feel there's a you can definitely feel when you're feeling pressured or when you're open to it and getting yourself there yeah like there's a difference and right it feels right when you do it um from a willingness standpoint not like pressure right but yeah i think i just think a lot of people like they'll see that something is different about their sex life or they'll be unsatisfied with something and think that something is like wrong. Right.

But really. Oh, so many people feel the same way or experience things somewhere. You're just different or like you need to like change the smallest thing and it'll change everything. Like that's what you're there for. Yeah. To help people realize. I'm just glad that I have a sex therapist my back pocket. Yeah.

Literally any time. Any question. I love unsolicited questions for people. Like very rarely I'll open up my Instagram and be like, okay. Okay, creepy men. Ask me all the questions that you want and I'll answer them. But, yeah. I mean, I love talking about sex.

Sometimes I forget that it's taboo and I forget that people don't talk about it like this. So I just assume like everyone talks about their desire levels or which direction they like their clit to be licked in. But like people don't. And that's what I kind of have to like remind myself is like sometimes you just have to go back to the basics. and like open it. Yeah. Because I think too, the more open that people become, the more open people will be in their relationships with their sexuality,

with their partners. And ultimately, I feel like not that less problems will arise, but I think that they'll be able to sort through and figure out. And I think a lot of people also, in general, people aren't always open to regular therapy. So I could imagine people being even less open to sex therapy.

So I feel like that's why it's even more important for it to be talked about because then people, once again it's like if you're open to going to a sex therapist like your problems are only going but they're not going to get worse so it's like the hardest thing is going yeah is setting the right so help like it's it's great that I just feel like you help open people up and even like you said like you might be you know a million steps ahead but like going back to the basics and helping people become open is so important because I think that that's what's going to help people the most within themselves and then even in relationships and stuff so yeah I think it's great it's so

interesting. I think so too. I love that you, yeah, I love that you do that and I think it's so great too that you really tied it back into why you wanted to become a sex therapist because it makes so much sense and I think too it made it made sense for you because you always were so open with your sexuality that it's like you felt like oh I can relate to people or I can relate to this and I'm already because like so many people aren't comfortable with talking about it or why would anybody want to go to a sex therapist too that might still view it as like, you know, sensitive. or taboo or like tiptoe around certain words or sayings like you want it to be the most open

person because that's a whole I feel like that's the whole issue is that people aren't open enough about it and like they should be talking about it more freely and that's how you kind of find the root of issues and really tap into what's going on and and fix it. So I think it's great. Seriously, I think it's amazing and I'm so excited for you. So could you said who reach out to you? Someone that you wanted to do. The person that I called emailed, I emailed in freshman year of college and said, I want to be a sex therapist. I want to work at your clinic.

Like it's in my eyes like the best sex therapy clinic in my state. They just messaged you today. We've been in contact. I'll email her like once every three years and be like, don't forget about me. Right. like when are your next steps and I told her like I actually need to email you because I start seeing clients in three months and I like want to work for you. Oh, that's amazing. So I was like that's kind of like a sign from the universe.

Yes. Also like something so unique about my career is like if you are a teacher or a lawyer, you can't talk about sex on the internet like this. Like it could ruin your career. So it's so interesting to try and navigate like this is my career. This is what I study. This is what I do. And it's taboo, but my employers see it as a positive thing. Like me going on Instagram and talking about like 10 ways to give better head to any other employer that would be like stop.

Right. But to her, she was like, yes. And like that was validating that. Like I can come on here and talk about it. And that's like what people in our field do. Yeah. And I guess like just the last thing to leave people with like a lot of people think that you should only go to therapy. if something's really wrong.

Like if something is terribly wrong. But a therapist, like, you're not committing to spending an entire year working with them. If you have an experience, like, you know, I got catfished by this creepy old guy and I just want to, like, kind of talk about it and, like, figure out what that was. You can go for a couple sessions and just talk it out. Or if you think, like, my boyfriend wants to have more sex, and I do, but I don't really know how to do that.

you just go for a couple sessions. Like it doesn't have to be the end of the world. Like you don't have to have a diagnosable problem even. Like you can just go. If you have a little concern, it's better to seek out a therapist when it's little before it gets big. Right. And then you have a bunch of things.

Right. More money in time to fix it. But yeah, sex therapist, like if you have a, if you want to talk to somebody like therapy wise and it's about sex, go to a sex therapist because like even relationships. because like even relationship couples therapists might not have any training in sex. And sometimes it can do a little bit more like bad than good if you go to somebody who doesn't really know or isn't comfortable or tries to like shame you for it. Yeah.

So just make sure that they're licensed and make sure that they're not going to judge you and like work through your shit. Because if I didn't have to do this for therapy school, I might never have realized these things. and like I don't have it all figured out, but like I'm so glad that I figured that out because I don't know if I would have otherwise. Right, for sure. And it allows you too to kind of know with your clients and people going forward, like steps that you can take to help them figure their own things out too, which is important.

But seriously, you did amazing. Thank you so much. I love what you do. That's so exciting and good luck with your next chapter with everything. Yes, thanks for having you. Of course, of course.