We're Out of Time - Army Veteran Toni Lavery: Resilience, Vision Loss & Service

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

On this episode of We’re Out of Time, US Army veteran Toni Lavery joins host Richard Taite to discuss her journey through military service, motherhood, and a life-changing health challenge. After serving for over two decades, Tony shares how she is navigating her identity transition and leading the first all-women commemorative jump into Normandy for the 82nd anniversary of D-Day. In this episode, Tony highlights the importance of advocating for one’s own health while managing vision loss and explains how the Fox Force Foundation is building a vital community for women veterans to find mentorship through shared resilience. The conversation also covers strategies for managing stress, prioritizing family wellness, and maintaining a strong partnership while both spouses serve.

Nobody knows me. I'm nobody to be like to anyone really like who am I and uh then I realized like oh it's because I'm the only girl who just jumped that's what's going on and there's ladies giving me babies and then there was like women up to like their 90s just crying and you know to me what it said was that they needed to see women doing non-traditionally women things and that they could basically do whatever they want in this world if they just put their mind to it like you You could be a parachutist if you want in a time when women weren't even allowed to serve in the military, really, you know? If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement. That's 8888-8-8-3-1-1581.

And if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. One Call Placement is affiliated with Carrera Treatment, Wellness, and Spa and One Method Treatment Centers. Today on We're out of time, we have an incredible guest joining us. U.S. Army veteran Tony Lavery served our country for more than two decades with multiple combat deployments, and today she's taking everything she learned through service, trauma, resilience, leadership, and even motherhood, and using it to help others. She's the founder and executive director of Fox Force, a veteran-led organization, helping women become stronger, more self-reliant leaders through men. mentorship, self-defense, and community. But Tony's story goes even deeper.

After decades of military service and multiple deployments, she faced a life-changing challenge, learning she was losing her vision and beginning a journey towards answers and healing. And now she's making history leading the first ever all-women commemorative D-Day jump into Normandy. Tony, welcome. Hi, good morning. So good to be here.

Yeah. So let me ask you a question. It's called, it's called Fox what? Fox Force. Fox Force Foundation is the full name, but it's a, I know it's a mouthful. So we just say Fox Force. It's it, but when I was reading it, it was and it was all women. I started calling it by accident Foxy Force. Is that what? Well, I'm sure. I'm sure some of the ladies in the group would love that compliment. So you can call it what a Foxy Force if you want to. That's totally fine. Is that why you call it that? Because they're all women. No. No.

So actually, you might think this is funny. Not a lot of people know this. When we had this group that we knew we wanted to like mobilize into some type of a business or just an enduring thing, you know, I was bouncing some ideas off my husband. And he said we should be called Fox Force Five, like from the movie Pulp Fiction, if you ever saw that. Wow. And yeah. So he just started calling it that. just because we reminded him of that.

Like as Uma Thurman describes it in the movie, she's like, I was mildly an actress in this one TV show, and it was called Fox Force Five, and there were five of us, and everybody had their own unique capability. And, you know, somebody could, like, see the future, super fast, whatever. And then her specialty was telling jokes. And she was so mad about it. But that's kind of like our group, right?

Like, we're all a little bit goofy. Some people have these, like, super unique and useful talent. And then some people have these like crazy off the wall. Like I can remember weird facts. And like you're like, why would that ever matter? But at some point it ends up mattering and being useful. So that's the genesis of the name. And then over time it's just evolved into Fox Force Foundation.

I like it. But yeah, yeah, that's where it came from. You spent more than 20 years serving our country with multiple deployments. But today you're also a wife and a mom of two. What has been harder? combat, motherhood, or trying to balance it all. Oh, man, that's a good one. Definitely motherhood, because, you know, combat, the rules are pretty much, it's pretty

black and white. I mean, you have to use a lot of, there's a lot of gray area, too, but for the most part, you know the rules, you can kind of predict what's going to happen, you know, your weapons systems and all these other systems and processes that we use. Motherhood is a whole other ballgame, and it's black. white, apples, yellow. It's everything all at once. And ultimately, you're responsible for humans that, you know, you want to invest in to be thriving members of society. And that's a lot of pressure. You know, balancing it is tough. But at the end of the day, the toughest thing is

making sure that your kids are taken care of and they have what they need. They feel secure in their relationship with their parents. Am I raising my kid, right? Right? So I'm not going to mess them up for life the way I see other people do. You know, like you could be a huge detriment to them with one simple thing. That pressure is immense and intense for sure. Yeah. That's, you know, I was going to say combat. Okay. But, but after.

You've never met my kids. How old are the kids? They're five and nine. And you would think that they're going on 20 and also starting combat of their own. I mean, they're just wild. They're, they're awesome. They're the best part of my life, but they're just, they're amazing. They're amazing. That's awesome. All right. Your husband, Nick, who we're going to have on the show as well, has his own incredible military journey. What is it like having two people under one roof who both understand sacrifice, service, and everything that comes with it? Before you

answer. I just want to tell you what I've observed in this thing. And the one thing I thought about was you love your husband so much. It's like it brought you guys closer. It feels to me because you were in the same thing. You know what that's like. You know the challenges and the reward. of it and the consequences of it. And it's just when I look at you, I honestly, the first thing that came to my, I know this is selfish, but I said, I hope a woman at some point feels the same way about me that you feel about your husband. I just thought it was beautiful.

Awesome. Yeah. I hope that for others too because how I feel for him, I think, is you can't put a value or you can't even put words to it, really. We define it as like soulmates, right? Like we literally believe we were put here on this earth from one another. Now, granted, it took us a while to figure that out. And it took both of us, you know, trial marriages and a really weird walks of life to get here.

But holy crap, we, I mean, we would be lost without each other. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, it's in the same breath that, you know, I think we're made for each other. I think also I am probably a huge reason for his resilience being married to me. It just makes both of us stronger all the time because we're always looking for ways to improve our relationship and how we talk to each other, how we support each other, how we can be better parents to our kids. Well, that is rooted in being a good husband and wife, right? Like we have to be a strong team to be able to be really good parents to our kids and let them see what a good family dynamic should look like. That's a serious model for these children in that home.

That's, I mean, your children are really lucky. Yeah, can you please tell them that? No, no. I want them to know. Yeah. I got my own kids to deal with. Okay. I only deal with kids in crisis.

Yeah. All right. You spent most of your life taking care of other people. Was there a moment where you realized your mission wasn't ending after the military? It was just changing. Yeah, it was. So actually, so I'm still in the military. I'm actually retiring from them.

Yeah, everybody thinks I'm out because I'm so active in a non-military role. But it's because I'm medically retiring. And so that is a really, really long process. And throughout that process, my organization, which has been amazing in all of this search for answers on my vision loss, they've given me the time and the space that I need to try to get a diagnosis and a cure. And then also because I'm retiring like the, you know, it was a lot of admin and outbriefings and stuff like that.

So I'm still in. I'm not as active, obviously, as I was during, you know, my peak of my career, but I'm still in. You know, the pivotal point for me in realizing that service will continue just going to look different, is when I was on my journey to find a resolution on my vision. And so I was kind of struggling a little bit, like as most of us do, because the military kind of becomes your identity, especially if you're rolled up,

if you're in the military for 20 years, 20 plus years long enough to be retiring from it, just like any other form of service like law enforcement or what have you, getting out in and of itself poses a crisis, an identity crisis, an environmental change crisis, a transition crisis. So I was really, really struggling with how I'm going to be relevant when I get out. What the hell am I going to be when I get out? Like, I don't want to do anything else. This is my mission.

This is my purpose. Even though it's like technically killing me too, right? Like all the stress, the uptempo, the burden it places on my family while I'm gone, training, deploying all those things. But I didn't know anything else. And so when I realized my vision was putting me out of the military, sooner than I was ready to go in my mind. I was like kind of panicking.

And then fast forward through a couple of trial treatments and transition programs and healing retreats and things like that. And I realized, wow, you can not only have an identity that's not just a military one, but you, Tony, can also have this life that is equally as purposeful. It's just not the military. And that's absolutely fine. And once I had that epiphany, everything, kind of just started falling into place. And I started, also, it kind of helped me to prioritize,

well, I already had my priorities. I just wasn't enacting them the way that I should have if they were truly my priorities. So my family, for example, is my number one priority in the world. Anybody would tell you that. And I, even though I was saying that and I knew that in my mind, I was still fighting to find that next thing that was going to keep me relevant in some way. And it was taking away from my family, which is my priority. So I said, okay, let me stop. I got to let that thing go, let this go. I'm only going to focus my efforts on the things that help me in achieving priority,

a purposeful life and priority in my family. Can I ask you a silly question? Oh, please, please bring it. I'm used to silly questions. Okay. if you and your husband are both in the military, who watches the kids when you're both deployed? Oh, that's a great question. So we are very blessed to have such, for one, I'm Italian, so we have a massive family.

I've got like 30 cousins on my dad's side. We have the support of our family. I have a brother. So me and my husband are in the same organization. We're both in fifth special forces group. My brother is also in fifth special forces group. So by virtue of, oh my gosh, I almost flipped you off on there. So my brother, him and his family were helping us.

I'm so sorry. They were helping us for the longest time. He was married. He just went through a divorce. So they were support. My mom moved down when I was pregnant with my first born because I knew I was deploying immediately after he was born. So she lived with us to kind of raise him.

And then after I was pregnant with my second, he was actually a twin originally and we were freaking out because we're like we both know we're going to be either deploying or going to long-term training after they're born and my mom had since moved on and gotten another job and so we we couldn't figure out what we were going to do we couldn't afford an au pair or like a living nanny so my husband asked his mom then if she would move down and help us with what we thought was going to be two new babies and a three-year-old at the time and so she said yeah of course no questions asked and then I have a baby brother who also lives here with his wife.

And then at one point, I had a cousin also in fifth group. Well, he was like a cousin. My aunt, like raised him for a while. And then another cousin who were down here. So we had like this. The public, just so you know, the public has no idea about this. The public has, the public has no idea what a military family has to go through in order to get this handled.

I mean, first of all, it's very, it's very rare, isn't it, that you have both spouses in the military at the same time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But it just hit me. It's like, how does this make this make sense? How does this work?

And it's, it literally took a village. It did. Yeah. Wow. It did. Especially because my older son had been kicked out of daycare. He had been kicked out. You know, it's not surprisingly, I guess.

if you take me and my husband's character traits and put them into one little human, it's definitely not a surprise. But yeah, it has taken an absolute village because we, one of us would have had to get out. If we didn't have our family, we sacrificed a lot of things to support us, one of us would have had to get out, and it probably would have been me because I'm the mom, you know? That's right. I would have made a choice, right? So, no, none of it was possible without them.

I mean, still, it's not. Look at how much we travel now. Let me ask you a question. How old is your son now that got kicked out of? He's nine. He just turned nine. And yeah, he just finished third grade. So they're out for the summer now.

I love that kid. I love that kid. Let me just tell you something so that you're not panicked over it. I went to three high schools in my senior year. Oh, wow. I turned out. That sounds like my brother. Yeah.

If you don't ask anybody, I've ever. dated I turned out fine. So tell me more about your eye condition and the connection specifically to PTSD. What is actually happening inside your body? And what do the doctors say about this? And how much of your vision have you lost? So when I first learned of this, I said, not possible, not me. That was the first thing I said.

That's right. And even after several. So I had gone to the Army ophthalmologist on base, and they did their damnedest to try to help me resolve it. After like three, four appointments, the ophthalmologist there was like more and more confused every single time. And finally, thankfully, like hubris did not get in the way. And he said, hey, this is beyond my scope of expertise. I need to refer you somewhere else. And so he did.

And after that, I had gone to three different places. like two times each. So basically like I would go to one place. I wasn't happy with the care they were giving me. So I'd be like send me somewhere else. They'd send me somewhere else. I was like, that place was even worse, send me somewhere else until I eventually found my way to Baskin Palmer in Miami who's supposed to be the best. And they were more flabbergasted than anybody else. And then to top it off, before I was supposed to go back for my second appointment with Baskin Palmer to get some type of a closure of the loop, I was boarding a plane to go down there. I get a call for you. I get a call from them and they're like, hey, we had to cancel your appointment because TRICARE just deauthorized

your visit. And I was like, you guys have to be freaking kidding me. Like, this is life limmer eyesight. I'm literally going blind. And the one care service that we get, the one constant, right, which is TRICARE are like insurance coverage. They're deauthorizing me to go get care to salvage my vision. Like, how do you explain that? So from there, I went back to other places. And all the same time. Like it's been now. Right. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Back up. How did you reason, has that been resolved? No, with TRICARE or with a diagnosis? With TRICARE? No. No, no, no, no. What are you doing to get that handled? Who's the internal advocate that's supposed to deal with that? It's my primary care provider and me. So we've both done what we

could for that. It just took, I, I'm, I'm sorry. spending valuable time to get these systems who are supposed to be administering our care, I'm spending more time trying to get them to do their jobs than I am trying to save this before like I lose total vision. Yeah. So what they think I have is called central cirrus retinopathy, which basically fluid is building up in my retinas and it's causing vision loss. And where the fluid eventually might dissolve, it's now also forming scuriscus. tissue, that's irreparable. So I have kind of two things working against me with my vision. Time out, time out. Time out. So what you're saying is the liquid is a liquid form and then over

time it gets to be a solid. And it's covering, and it's covering your, your, your eye. It comes out. So if this were an eyeball, the back of the eye is where like the retina it lies, I guess. Sure. And between the retina and the very back of the eye, there's. there's like a layer and there's fluid building up in that layer of my eye and it's like really thick and yokey that's at least what they say it looks like on the image there's no way to with there's no way to that's what I said I was like stick a syringe in there and aspirate it out and they're like nope it doesn't work that way I said okay well let's try something and that's not an option what's actually happening inside your body yep so if we're calling it central

serotonopathy. That is a condition rooted in high cortisol levels, prolonged over time, stress, PTSD, all the things. It usually happens in the military, what I was first told. They said, we usually see this in 25-year-old alpha male infantrymen. And obviously I'm not any of that, minus 25. But they, so that, and then the other thing about it is that it, it usually just comes in one eye and it resolves on its own in a couple months. Mine, the onset was very sudden, very bilateral and very symmetrical spots. And there was no gradual like over time. It just, I woke up and I had blind spots and that was it.

And mine has persisted and gotten worse over the course of four years now. Actually, what's today? The 22nd. So here in five days will be the four year anniversary of the morning. I woke up with the spots in my eyes. And so it's this, I'll send you pictures. It's kind of gross to look at, but it's cool because you can see like the spots in my eyes correlate to the blind spots I see.

So it's always kind of validating for me to see it when I go to the doctor and they show me where the fluid is. I'm like, oh, that's the shape of my blind spots. It looks like a caterpillar today. So it's like, but it is validating. The yokey stuff that builds up behind the eye, the more it covers. the eye, the more sight you lose, no? Yes, yes.

But then also where it goes away, like it dissolves and then it moves around inside my eyes. So like one month, I will be able to have like the bottom portion of my eyes blocked out. And then the next month, maybe one eye now is like the inner left of my left eye and then like the upper right of my right eye. So like my vision is so skewed. And then it's like gives me headaches because my eyes are trying to focus with the different vision. but there's no glasses or corrective lenses that will fix it. So you said that cortisol is responsible for this or it happens. That's a common denominator in all of it.

So it leads you to believe that it's a contributing factor. Yeah, 100%. If that's true, why not do work to lower your cortisol levels? For example, okay, do you do any? mindfulness meditation. Yep. And I've done, so I did. And I've done my cortisol is probably much lower.

No, stop. How often? Daily. Daily. I journal. I do mindfulness. I set aside a time. It's built into my schedule.

It's the only way I survive this. Okay. How about food? Have you been eating foods that are good for your vision? I don't know. Probably not. I mean, I do spinach and carrots, but not. I'm not sure what I don't know.

I don't know what those are, but I'm talking about diet to research the diet in every single way that you can lower your cortisol. Now, when I realized that it was, so they, all the practitioners had been telling me from the beginning that they thought it was this thing rooted in stress and PTSD. And but they also said it was anomalous and we don't know if it's that. So I kind of like put. put that on the back burner and told myself, I convinced myself that it couldn't be that. It had to be something else. So I kept looking for answers. And then finally my vision took a dip. And this organization that's been helping me, Task Force, Dagger, they tailor to special operations veterans who need medical treatment assistance and financial support. They had been offering me

ketamine therapy and some other modalities to support exactly what you said. Did you try it? My PTSD. Oh, yeah. It changed my life. I did in clinic, very intense ketamine therapy. And I paired that with, they pair that with a dual cellate ganglion block. And since both of those, so prior to that, all the signs and symptoms of PTSD were there for me.

Are you doing any TMS? No, I haven't tried that yet. I want you to try it. I want you to try it. Okay. Have you tried it and it worked or like what do you like about it? It's great. It's great with the military.

All, you know, depending on what you've got, that's, that seems to work very, very well for, okay. For veterans with PTSD. Okay. Yeah. I definitely will. I mean, I'm trying everything right now. The next we're doing is that EMD, EMDR therapy.

Do you have a therapist? Yep. How long? Actually, at one point, I had three. So I have one through the military, and then I have one that I work with every two weeks, I think, through the task force dagger organization that helped me with all the treatments that I got outside of the military. Okay. All right. You're on the right.

You're on the right track. Yeah. I'm doing like, and don't get me wrong, if I wouldn't have taken them up on that and intervened the way that I did, I probably would be very close to Nović. vision right now because I knew I want you to do an exercise I want it in your mind all the time okay if you get past a six eject out of the room hey guys I love you try not to kill each other okay mommy needs a couple minutes yeah okay if you get to a six that's it you're going back down You have to self-regulate. Yeah.

Okay. You cannot go above a six. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Okay. It took actually my, the one counselor that I was working with, we came to a conclusion very similar to that because you're right.

At the end of the day, one of the biggest, like, high stress moments was like when everybody gets home, everything's going on. And even just realizing that, I never would have done it on my own. I needed someone to bounce it off of, which is why I totally value the importance of a therapist counselor, even just a sounding board. And she helped me point that out because that was the highest stress point of my day. You would think it would be the happiest because I'm like, oh, my son's coming home from school. My husband's walking in the door from a long day. Everybody's like reuniting again.

And again, it's one of those things. It's a major transition point in the day. Nope. And that's high stress. You're looking at it wrong. You're looking. It's all perception. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's all perception. Get excited for it. Yeah. Get excited for it. It turns. It's all, it's, look, it's happening. It's actually happening in front of us. But we put the meaning on top of that.

Okay. These kids, you've got a three and a five-year-old or a five- and an eight-year-old. Five and nine. Five to nine. Okay. Yeah. Listen. You haven't been here yet.

Okay. But I have. Okay. The best ages for these kids, in my opinion, with my children, was two to nine. Mm-hmm. Two to ten. Okay. Those are the greatest, the greatest times of your life.

You're never getting them back. Yeah. That's true. Okay. Trust me. It's all perception. This is the sweetest time of your life. You're never going to have it again.

These boys are in love with their mommy. Their mommy love with their boys. Okay. I get it. It's a different perception thing. You've got to get out of it. This is a hassle. And maybe what you have to do is when you get home, when they get home and you're preparing dinner and right, whatever it is, do that before.

they get here if that's a stressor that you have to do things while you're present for the kids. Don't worry when you're with the kids be with the kids. Okay. I promise you it's a perception issue and it's causing you stress and everything we do in your life has to be about resolving the stress. Everything. Self care, massage and you know, you and your husband, massage. massage each other every other night, right?

I mean, love each other. You guys are in love with each other. This is self-care. You have to take care of every aspect of your mind, body, and spirit now. Every aspect. It's got to be holistic. Are you in a support group? No, but I guess I would refer to the ladies of Fox Force, the close-knit group anyways.

That is my support group. How much vision do you have left? I don't know. My vision, I guess I'm technically legally blind. I can't drive that night anymore. Yeah, I can see your tan. Yeah, but that's like you can be legally blind and see quite a few things. I just can't.

Okay, can you see my little button nose? Yes. Yes. If you laugh, she can see. Yeah, I can see. If you laugh, she can see. My screens are set up with like very high contrast. So I need high contrast and bright lights to be able to see.

So like if I were to show you around my office, I have to have lights everywhere to be able to see like little like I can't see my keyboard the keys. So like for me to get started on it, I have to shine a light on it so I know like where my fingers are. And then I can go about my day. And now I have to have like this big lamp. Do you talk? Forget that. Forget the typing. You're not going to be typing for long.

Why don't you, do you talk into your phone? Do you talk into your computer? And like, I don't know how to type. Okay. So I talk into everything. And it's so much faster and so much more effective and efficient. It just really is. Have you learned to do that yet?

Yeah. Well, no. So I use like the voice memos and stuff like that. I am an app. I type great once I can see where I'm starting. Like I've played the piano since I, was four. So I know that might not sound like it relates, but I could do it with my eyes closed. I just got to figure out like where the keys are. And I probably type faster than I can talk it.

Okay. But on my phone, I use it more out of convenience, I guess. And then also because it's so small, I can't always see the texts that I'm writing. That's why. That's why I brought it up. Because yeah, it's if it's going to help in some way. I mean, if you're out there and you know what I mean. Anyway, I'm sorry. I just can't keep my mouth shut. Well, it's fair because I know I'm going to have to make that transition soon. I'm just really stubborn on letting it go. Like, I was, I'm still so stubborn on losing my independence that I won't relinquish the remote control to my husband when it comes time to like winding down and watching TV at night. I insist on using it and he just has to read to me like which apps I'm scrolling across. And then he asked her to read all the like the show

options and the descriptions and stuff like that. I love this man. Yeah, he is. He's such an angel. Like, I seriously don't know what he's doing with me half the time. But I do know that we were meant to be, like, I think we're both saving each other in some way, shape, or form. Like, he'll say that I was the reason he survived his injury. And then I guess his injury led to worse injuries for me internally.

And now he's saving me from those. So it's kind of, oh, I always cry. It's kind of like a, you know, full circle, if you will, salvaging one another through this thing, you know, life that everything it's thrown at us. So I remember when I was a kid, a girl asked me that I was with, right? And she said, if I went through a windshield and was completely disfigured, Would you still love me? Because I can't take the intimacy of a question like that.

I said, no. Perfect. I'm sure that sat well with her. And when you were talking about that, I thought to myself, well, is there any woman that I've ever met? And there's only one. And it wouldn't matter if she was blind. or in a wheelchair or completely disfigured, it wouldn't matter.

I would love her probably more. Okay? And you love your husband so much and I have not met him yet. And my thing is, no. And my thing is when I see people, because, you know, I've done a little bit of living and, you know, for what I do for, for a living. I can look at you and talk to you for a couple minutes and know more about you than, or not more about you than you know about yourself, but certain things that you don't know about yourself, I got down, okay?

But I haven't met him and I haven't spoken to him, so I don't know. Yeah. How do you feel, this is such a horrible question to ask, but it's bothering me and I want to know because I want clarity and I want you to have clarity. when you lose your eyesight and you do lose a lot of your independence does he love you enough to stay with you forever that's a great question but it's too easy to answer yes all day long and i know that that's why i'm like so at ease i mean i do you think i would have asked the question if i didn't know the answer if you didn't No, that was it. Yeah, well, yeah, because I think it's important to talk about. But yeah, he, he, it's funny that you're bringing this up. Nobody's ever brought it up in the way that you just did, if at all. I don't think anybody's ever asked and had the discussion that we're about to have. But it's a good one, though, because I do think about it. And so do Nick and I. And what the interesting part about all of it is that before he got injured, we would have those conversations every day. You know, what if I lost a leg? What if I lost a leg? What if I lost?

to arm? What if I couldn't talk anymore? Like, what if this? And he would always say, like, I would love you if you were just ahead, you know? Like, and I will never forget that. And I would tell him the same thing. Like, I would be with you forever regardless. I don't care if we have no arms, no legs. I was like, I'd be sad if you lost your hands because I like holding your hand, you know, but we had those conversations. I don't think anybody knows that yet, except for me and him. And that still rings true today. Like, we would both do anything for one another. including all the shit that nobody would want it, like caregiving. He's going to have to do for me at some point and me with him, right?

Like he's not going to be mobile forever. The one joint that he had, the one leg that he has left, it's putting a burden on the rest of his body. And he's not going to be able to get around for the rest of life. That's the reality of it. Same with me, right? Like he already has to drive me places because I can't drive myself around. Nobody knows this. Nobody.

the military and the veteran community knows this. But you guys are what, 1% of the population? Yeah, well, even less because special ops is like less than, yeah, it's a very small fraction of the population. Excellent. The other 99% of the population does not know this. They walk around and they say, thank you for your service because it's what you're supposed to fucking say.

But they don't understand this. You know, you think of the battle and the commitment and the discipline and the safety you provide and all. We get that part. But you never really get to the masses, the public, the general public doesn't understand the after effects. They know about the trauma and the PTSD, but they don't know about this. And the fact that we're going to have a household with two young children, with two beautiful people that have given their lives for the rest of us, okay? And they're going to be struggling the way they are after the fact, after the service. People don't know that.

Yeah. Yeah, they really don't. And also what I think has kind of highlighted some things for me is just the nuance of all that. So like what, you know, I'll use my husband, for example, or even me and some of the girls in our group, you see this like imposing figure and he looks like embodies strength and resilience in all these things. But nobody recognizes, and not that I'm asking them to, I'm just saying what they don't understand is the perspective that I have here, which is he's in constant pain for the rest of his life. That's never going to go away.

He's in constant pain, which burns about five times the amount of energy than the average person who's not in So the end of the day, he's exhausted. But he still gets up every day after that and does it again. What is he doing for work? Well, so he's also still in the Army, but he has his business, you know, precision components. Can I ask you a question before we go in that? What does he do in the Army? He's a special forces warrant officer.

But he's in the same boat as me. He's retiring as well. Why? Why? Because he's, he's, he's done. none. He's very, he has realized that he can make much bigger of an impact outside of the Army than in. And what I mean by that is a lot of his initiatives that he does under his business outside of the Army, they lend heavily toward recruitment, especially Special Forces recruitment, which is where we're a little bit struggling right now.

Are you saying that he's going to be in a position now to recruit special forces, forces guys? Yeah, I mean, he's not a coined recruiter, but he works with the things that he does, like appearing at the Arnold Classic and events like that through his other business endeavors. That's where he gains a lot of interest from young gentlemen who want to go and be special forces, who then go and sign up to try out for special forces, if that makes sense. Sure, he's an attraction. He's an attraction. He's an attraction. He's an attraction rather than a promotion. He lines up with these guys and they go, hey, I want what you got. I want to do that. You're a badass. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So in that essence, he is essentially serving in a

recruitment capacity. He's not a recruiter per se, but he's doing a lot for that, for the special forces regiment anyways. That's fantastic. So yeah, that's, it really is. I mean, it's amazing what he can do just with his presence online and people looking up to him. That is doing so much. So, yeah, that's, it really is. for the special forces community versus any other dollar amount you could put at it. You know, like he's kicking ass in that arena. Do you know the name of the affliction that you've got with your eyes? Yes. It's called, well, okay, I know what they can say with about 90% certainty it is,

and 90% is on a good day. It's called Central Cirrus retinopathy, which is rooted in high prolonged stress and cortisol levels and PTSD. You're in the military. Your husband's in the military. Okay. What's the problem like? I don't know that it's how I know suicide is a big one. And I also know like I'm sure it's much underreported, but I would say alcohol still is. No, alcohol is always out. They're always having a problem with alcohol. But the reason I'm bringing it up is the world I live in, we're seeing veterans for the most of, lot of veterans on and we're seeing not as many but active military people saying that they've never taken final never but they're testing positive and they're not all line okay which

I wonder how they're getting it with it's getting into the it's getting into cocaine or meth or whatever else it is that they're doing okay so and they don't know it and the problem is is if you get a big batch, right, before your tolerance is built up, you just drop. Yeah, you're going to die. Right? So what's the drug problem like in the military? Is it, what's it like? Again, I don't think the drug problem is huge.

I think it's more alcohol. Where I have seen instances of drug abuse, it's been opioids where they tested positive for something like that, like abusing pain pills or something like that. But hold on a second. But you would think there'd be a lot of a lot of rope given there because it's very easy to say in the military, I've got pain. I'm injured. I've got this.

So how does the military navigate the difference between legitimate pain? and abuse. Well, to go back to what you just said, there's not really, there's a zero tolerance policy for any type of misuse of substances. So even if you have pain and you had a prescription for that, for some type of pain management for that pain, if that prescription is not active when you take the urinalysis and you get called to do it, then you have no leg to stand on. And so the thing that can save you from that is if you,

come forward to your command prior to popping hot for a piss test and saying like, hey, I got a problem. I like, I can't. They put me on pain pills for my back and now I need more and more and nothing's doing anything for me. And then that escalates to other things. And so if you go and you self report and you ask for help, that's different. If you keep it under the radar and then they find out first by virtue of a urinalysis, then you

really don't have much of a leg to stand on. How often do you guys get drug tested? We do. So the standard is once a month, 10 or 15% of the personnel roster of the organization. And then an annual 100% or maybe it's twice a year where they do 100% of everybody in the organization that's on duty at the time of the test being scheduled. Okay. So it's really hard.

for it's it's it's very hard to be a active drug user in the military yeah you'll get caught so and it's so where i did see like heavy like heavy substances that were abused um those were extreme circumstances um like one for example was uh a dude was doing heroin and he he was in special forces and they found out because they did 100% accountability in the organization that day and nobody could find him and they're like well when was the last time anybody heard from him and it had been like weeks and they're like how the heck did this happen and so they hunt him down and they finally find him at a this is at fort brag this is almost 15 years ago now they finally find him at a known like hooker and drug motel on brag boulevard if if you or anyone in your audience

familiar with that. And he was doped out on heroin. He was like lost in the sauce. And, you know, how do you go from thriving, like highly skilled, trained professional to being found, you know, with a needle in your arm or in this prostitute motel on Bragg Boulevard? Like, that's how does that, how does that even calculate? And the answer, in my opinion is he was struggling with mental health issues that he just didn't bring up and that others around him either didn't recognize or recognized and didn't know how to proceed. So they just ignored it. Well, let me ask you a question. Okay. How is it? I think I know, but I want to hear it from you. How is it that there's not a drug problem that's prevalent in the military? And the second you get out,

okay, there's more of a problem. That's a, yeah, that's good. But I think in my opinion, I would would say that's probably because it's a coping mechanism for transition. So where, yeah, it's, I mean, I see it a lot. You know, I work obviously a lot in transition programs. We, and not just military. We have women transitioning out of domestically violent households. And they got to start life over with three kids as a single mom with no income. That's a tough transition, right? Like any major life transition is going to impose some type of a, not necessarily a burden, but just some type of a challenge on you and your livelihood. And so the military is a big one because especially, you know, think about the age that you join the military. Some people join as young as 17, some 18, 19, whatever.

So joining that young in life, even if you're only in for five years, max, that's your whole formative adult life. you know like that's formulating you as an adult so like to say that you're going to go do that and then just get out and just like cut cold turkey and just move on that's not accurate that's not what it seems you know what it seems like to me it seems like to me that there should be a rule okay that you can't leave the military until you know where you're supposed to be next yeah or until you meet x y and z blocks like It's because so the only reason I would say that, so yes, I think you should know what you're doing next in order to be able to get out. But more importantly, you should know exactly who you are.

So I think that's more important than having the next thing lined up because. How so? How so? Because those are two totally different things. They are. But so I'll give you these couple vignettes. So we have all these transition programs from benevolent organizations and then the Army even has its own too. and they have all this like finance classes set you up with jobs internships what have you um but

if you don't know like i hate this overused term but like if you don't know the why why you're doing all of this what's your purposes and who you are which tells you what your purpose is then you're just going to like you're going to flop and we had guys who got out they knew what they were doing they went to work at what they thought was like a steady stable life significant security and their income. And then like 12 weeks later, they're quitting because they're depressed and it's not meeting their need. Okay.

And so let's let's unpack that for the viewers. Okay. Two things can be true at the same time. Yeah. Of course. You have to know who you are. Okay. You have to know who you are, what your capacity is, what you can tolerate and what you can't.

Yep. Right. You have to know, you have to know the room. Okay. but you got to know where you're supposed to be, where you're going to be working, where you're going to be living, you know, who, you know, you got to let your friends know you're coming back. And so you have the socialization and you're not left alone. There's certain things that need to be done in order to minimize, right, the transition shock. Because that's what that is.

It's shock. Tell us about Fox Force and where this idea came from. No, so Fox Force was founded in a very long, a group of us in one of the healing retreats I had gone on. It tailored to veterans, first responders, and law enforcement women. It was a women's platoon out on this island hosted by another nonprofit. So I went in the early stages of trying to diagnose my eyes. I was looking for any answers I could find. So for the first time in my life, I go to this thing, this healing retreat, you know, treat myself, and try to get some answers.

And I find this group of amazing women who are also looking for answers for other things, right? Like some of them had been suicidally ideating. Some of them had been sexually assaulted from the time they were six. And then again, in the military, right? And so we were all looking for just answers and healing on things. and we ended up not getting them at all at this place. However, after we left there, we stayed connected and we remained like resources to one another. So like exactly what you're doing with me, like, hey, talk to, you know, FERCOL and this place.

That's how our group was kind of communicating, right? We would be like, oh, so-and-so needs a house and she doesn't have use of her legs. And five people would come out of the woodwork and say, hey, go to tunnels to towers, go do this, go do that. And we were just getting healing in one another and that community that we had after we left there. And so after months of monthly calls just to stay connected, we finally said, hey guys, let's turn this into an annual meetup. Like we're loving each other. We're loving the help we're getting from one another. I'm feeling great about myself now.

And before I went to this thing and met you guys, I was like ready to, you know, do a bad decision. And so we said, yeah, let's meet in person. And nobody would commit. Everybody was back and forth. And in my mind, in my heart, I knew that everybody would continue to kind of just flake on it because they were always going to put everything before themselves and before their health and just something for themselves. And so finally, you know, my best friend, and part of the reason that we're here actually is she was my best friend coming up in the Army and she still is my best friend. and she was a single mother of two. And her time in the army, she had no support,

except for mostly me and her other girlfriends who would help her with her two boys. And her two boys, I spent all my time with them, and they became like sons to me. And when I came back from my last deployment, her older son, Frankie, after just turning 17, he killed himself. And so after that, she became suicidal as well. and I you know we're horrible advocates for ourselves we women I think most people in general especially in the military we're just terrible advocates for ourselves and she was not advocating for herself and so I shot up a red star cluster and I said hey like let's help Danielle she needs it and so I found

task force dagger and they sent her to ketamine therapy dual stalely angliam block and a bunch of therapies and it saved her life and um sorry for the curse word but I just it saved her life. And where she was ready to die, she had done those therapies. And don't get me wrong, she's still very much doing all the work to, to, you know, be a good mom to, to Javier, her other son and to herself, to be a good person. How's how we are doing? I think he's okay. I think I know that he probably, he could probably benefit from some of the services that she got. And I don't, I don't mean that they're not doing the right things for him. I'm not saying that at all.

I'm just saying that because it happened at such a crucial age for a young boy, I think Javier was 14 at the time and he heard it happen. I think that... How did it happen? He shot himself in the head with a 22. How old was he? In the bathtub. He had just turned 17.

Does anybody know why? Yeah, so actually we think we know now. And it's all, again, it's mental health. He, she finally got access to his notes on his iPhone. And we don't know how they suddenly unlocked. Not that I really care at this point. I just wish we had had him sooner because for two years leading up to when he took his life, he had been journaling.

And it was very evident in the way he's talking that he had some form of either bipolar, or what's the word? Borderline personality disorder. Yeah. So he would basically one day would be floating on a cloud. And then the very next day he would say, I want to kill myself. And then it was very evident that there was something that could have probably very easily been resolved with medication and counseling and just have it just communicating it. And at that age, kids are.

They're not armed. It's not, though. You can't put that on her. You can't. No, I mean, she, she's saying, she's saying that. So she, she acknowledged. But she's got to let herself off the hook. You never, you're never going to know that.

Okay. That's fair. Maybe yes, maybe no. Okay. But she can't take that on. That's not right. Yeah. That's, I guess, I guess she's just trying to look at it pragmatically to see, you know,

he had Asperger's so he knew he was different. And so that played a heavy toll. And if she wasn't present for that, it was because she fucking gave everything, okay, to the country. Okay. She was fucking struggling on her own. Okay. And so she couldn't be her best self. This is not her fault.

She did. Yeah. She did wonderfully. And if her, how old's, how old's Javier doing? How old's Javier now? He's 18 now. He's about to join the Army. Good.

Yeah, yeah. So, no, I'm not, she's a kick-ass mom. I tell you, she did more as a single mother for her kids and for her career than most dual-parent families do. Yeah. No, she sounds amazing. She's a kick-out. She was on the Army 10-miler team waking up at 4 in the morning to go train before Army PT so she could be a competitive runner. And she made sure the boys, she's a phenomenal mom.

She's the best. She's who I look to for what I want to do for my own kids. Last year, you jumped into Normandy and realized you were the only woman on the ground. What hit you in that moment? Yeah. What hit me was I didn't realize how much people were interested in seeing that. You know, I landed and then I'm walking around. First, tell everybody what this is because nobody knows what it is.

I didn't get it. Okay. Okay. So every year in Normandy for the anniversary of D-Day, nations from around the world jump in commemorative jumps. So they basically wear the replica uniforms and the old tin, you know, steel hats, helmets. And it's just this really cool thing. And it goes on for days. It's not just one day. It starts like June 1st. And it goes through almost the 14th or later, like weeks. And the whole town wears it. Like you'll see little kids in these uniforms, the old jeeps. that we left there. It's totally cool. And so I jumped in last year, and I'm wearing my M42s, the old parachute uniform that they wore back in World War II. And I had done this like pin-up style makeup, which is what the women would look like back

then. And turn my parachute in. I come through the rally point. And people are just lining up to take pictures with me. And I first thought it was because they either knew who my husband was and they were trying to get a picture with his wife or because they confused me with somebody famous. I'm like, nobody knows me. I'm nobody to these, like to anyone really, like, who am I? And then I realized like, oh, it's because I'm the only girl who just jumped.

And that's what's going on. And there's ladies giving me babies. And then there was like women up to like their 90s just crying. And I was like, oh, that's because they really needed to see this, right? And what it actually means. Oh, sorry, I'm going to cry again on a bigger scale. And, you know, to me, what it said was that they needed to see women doing non-traditionally women things and that they could basically do whatever they want in this world if they just put their mind to it. Like, you could be a parachutist if you want in a time when women weren't even allowed to serve in the military, really, you know? Like, that's what it said for them. And so that's why we're doing it this year, right? I said, how badass would it be if we took the modern day versions of

those badass ladies from the past who actually jumped into Normandy set up the DZs so the 82nd could come in and jump and who were the spies and the couriers and the people who like upheld the whole resistance that really fucked up the Nazis like how cool would it be if the modern day versions of those Virginia halls and Claire Adkin like all the women of the past and they just came and did this jump this year on the 82nd anniversary and like let everybody see it and and educate themselves on it. Like, that would be so cool. So that's what that's what we're doing. Like, hey, no biggie. We'll just launch this nonprofit with international, multi-organizational operation in Normandy. And it's been like such a whirlwind. That's cool. So yeah, you crash the party. That's all.

Yeah, I guess. That's a good thing. Yeah, I love that. Who are the women joining you? And what does this mission represent beyond just the jump itself? I mean, you already told me that. But Who are the women? Yeah, the women are, so some of the OGs from Fox Force who are from the original healing retreat who became OGs of Fox Force. Most of them are veterans, law enforcement first responder, intelligence community, like women of service. So one of the, like, for example, mayor, she's a mother of two girls, or two, a boy and a girl,

but both of her kids are terminally ill. They were born that way. And, yeah, I always cry when I talk about, okay, I'm going to cry again. So her, and you know, she, what's really fascinating about her, aside from the fact that she knows her kids are going to die, and that she's still like crush in life, is that she was the first woman to make it into SWAT where she lives. And so she busted her hump to get there. She worked there for a couple years before her kids ended up meeting like a full-time caregiver. And her husband's also in our unit. So when it came time to say, hey, parents, one of you.

needs to stay home with the kids, she made that sacrifice and that's her. But she gives more than anybody in the group and never ask for anything in return. Then she's got all this, you know, I don't know what I would do if I was in her position. I just, I don't know how she does it. It's amazing. I swear to God, I didn't think anybody had it worse than you. I don't even think I have it bad compared to some people. You know, I'll be fine. Like, yeah, it's going to suck. if eventually I can't see. But shit, like there's girl, like there's, and she's, everybody has a story like her in our group.

It's her. There's a girl, Gabby. Gabby is. The people don't understand. The people don't understand. They don't. No. There's another girl.

You're just, if you think that's resilient, like this other, Gabby, she tells us she was never supposed to be born in the first place because of the complications when she was born. But then if you fast forward, she's a jumper. She's going to jump tandem because you'll hear in a second. But she was in the army. She got her best friend to enlist with her on the buddy system. And on her, I think her first deployment, she watched her best friend die in her arms. And then she goes back, deploys again, gets injured by an IED. The military is doing surgery on her and mid-surgery, they paralyze her. So she's paralyzed from the waist down. And at the time, she's married to another service member. And she tells him, when he finds out

that she's going to be coming home without the ability to walk, he leaves her. But she gets home and she's not home, I think even a year before her parents had immigrated from Korea. and they moved to Atlanta and they had invested in a beauty supply store, I think, and they had owned it long enough to pay it off and decided they were finally going to retire. And they put it up for sale and her mom was closing down one day. And two guys came in and robbed her. She gave them everything in the register, everything they asked for, and they still executed her in the shop.

And so that's another girl that's jumping with us. a girl that has that going on. And on top of it, she's now, again, her, thankfully, she's got a great situation now. She's with another veteran. He's an amputee as well. And they have three daughters together who are just like the light of her life. How do people find out more about Fox Force Foundation to help with your jump? They can go to our website, www.

www. foxforce55.org. There's information on the jump there, as well as a way to donate, which takes you right to our fundraiser page, information on some of the girls in the group. We're also on social media under Fox Force. We have LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. Yeah, I'd say the best way is the website, though, Foxforce55.org. That's great. All right.

You and Nick are leading Operation 82 right now. Yes. Tell people what the challenge is and why this mission means so much to the both of you. Yeah, so Operation 82 is something that was started really kindly from an organization called Hero Picks. And what they do is they gamify fundraising. So they decided that they wanted to kind of beta their program with us. So they are pinning, or pitting, I should say, my organization Fox Force Foundation against one that Nick works very intimately with, which is the Green Bray Foundation. So basically, for Operation 82, which is going to culminate on the beaches of Normandy at the end of our jumps between us and Greenberry Foundation, they basically go to 82.Heropix.org, pick your team that you want to support, that you want to see win at the end of this thing, donate, and then do 82 of something.

So it could be 82 pull-ups, 82 push-ups, 82 sit-ups, 82 minutes of meditation. like it's not restricted to physical activity. It's just something honoring 82, right? So we just want to be cognizant of what 82 means, and that's commemorating the 82nd anniversary of D-Day. And so do your reps, call three people out, and then repeat the process. It's kind of akin to like how the ALS ice bucket challenge went back during COVID time.

It's kind of like that, you know, not to take anything away from that ALS ice bucket challenge, but that's kind of the idea behind it. And then at the end, whoever wins the most. How do they win? They just earn the most money. So basically they just get that money given to them. So it's a win-win, in my opinion, because the funds raised for us, like we still get them.

It's just kind of gamifying it because everybody likes to win, you know? So like people are more apt to participate. I thought it was going to be, I thought it was going to be something like, like, you know, you guys jump the plane and there's like a bullseye there and whoever gets the bull's eye they win like the more bulls eyes the jumpers get from that group yeah no it's that would be cool or maybe we could just say like hey you guys jump from the plane with no parachute and see who makes it that's awesome that would be me that would be me because i forget because i'd be so scared i wouldn't rip the cord all right is there anything we missed or didn't cover today that you want to

our viewers to know? I don't think so. I think, you know, well, maybe one thing. And I would say, I'm sure you're aware of it. Maybe you talk about it. But I would say that if you have family, friends, kids, what have you, that are struggling or don't know where to turn, that a really easy thing to remember and a free resource is the 988 hotline. It's one that we learned about after Frankie died, unfortunately, but we're sharing around with others in case they know someone who's struggling and doesn't know how to reach out. So I would impart that onto others just in case. And yeah, I think that's it.

It was beautiful. Thank you for coming on today. It was a pleasure and it was an honor and our privilege. Believe me. Yeah. All right. Me too. Likewise.

Thank you. Good luck. Good luck on that jump. Thanks. We need it. All right. You're the mother of the year. All right?

Thanks. Yes, ma'am. I doubt it, but thank you. Thank you. You're as good as it gets. Hey, thank you. All right. See you next Tuesday, everybody.

Yeah. We're out of time. Please subscribe on YouTube, click the thumbs up, and leave a comment. Please subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and leave a rating and a review. And share the We're Out of Time podcast with others you know who will get value out of it. See you next Tuesday.