We're Out of Time - Ava Michelle And Parker Noriega On Losing Their Brothers To An Accidental Overdose

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

In this episode of We're Out Of Time with  @RichardTaiteOfficial  he sits down with Ava Michelle Cota and Parker Noriega to discuss losing loved ones to an accidental fentanyl overdose. And why their both advocating for mental health and substance abuse awareness. Ava Michelle Cota is an American actress. She is known for her role as the character Jodi Kreyman in the Netflix comedies Tall Girl and Tall Girl 2. In the wake of a personal tragedy, the loss of her brother Devon to an accidental fentanyl poisoning, Ava, together with her mother Jeanette Cota, embarked on a deeply personal and impactful mission and established The Devon Michael Foundation. Parker Blaine Noriega is an influencer who works as a celebrity stylist and personal shopper, who posts fashion, viral trend, and lifestyle content. Parker opens up about the passing of her brother, TikTok star Cooper Noriega who died at the age 19 For all things Richard Taite, the We're Out Of Time podcast and Carrara Treatment Wellness & Spa: https://linktr.ee/richardtaite For more information on Ava Michelle Cota and The Devon Michael Foundation: https://www.instagram.com/ava.michelle/ For more information on Parker Blaine Noriega: https://www.instagram.com/parkerblainee/ Key moments from this conversation Intro 00:00 Fentanyl, this is the worst epidemic we've ever had. 00:00:45 Michelle speaks on the loving person that her brother Devon was. 00:03:52 Michelle shares finding her brother Devon when he overdosed . 00:12:58 Parker speaks on her brother Cooper and when substances entered the picture. 00:19:02 Parker and Ava speak about how uplifting and intelligent their brothers were. 00:33:00 Richard shares how despite being an expert on addiction recovery he had to educate himself on the fentanyl crisis and why he had to be a part of the solution. 00:45:00 Richard vocalizes why if you want to make a difference, get involved in your local community. 00:51:16 Parker shares how her family is still dealing with the court system concerning the individual who gave her brother the laced M30 pill. 00:59:00

We haven't spoken yet. And you are our first. I'm moved by what you're both doing. Because when I was in this last, Fetanol wasn't even a thing. I sold Clifside in the middle of 2018. But now, last year, 112,000 people overdosed.

accidental overdoses. I'm fentanyl. This is the worst epidemic we've ever had and it's getting worse and worse. From 2013 to the end of

2003, 10 years, the problem has increased 30-fold and most of it has happened in the last five years. since I've been gone, which is why I came back to work now. Another reason why you guys are here.

The kids today are fucking idiots. They just are. There's a few of them, like the both of you, and you are friends who I've met who are magnificent. Thank you. That have a sense of social consciousness. But, you know, when we were trying to do this thing, my goal was to make certain that nobody's going to listen to me.

I'm 57 years old and ain't my world anymore. It's yours. Right? Kids aren't going to listen to me today. They're going to listen to influencers. You guys influence other children, other teens, tweens, people who are going to be peer-pressured into this thing. and I'm a father with two children. My kids are 11 today and 14 and a half.

And they go to school with other kids that are cool. And they don't understand that being kind never goes out of style. And I've never seen the bullying that I see now. Never especially for girls. Never. So you guys are on this thing today because you matter more than celebrity. You matter more than anybody.

Because you speak from the heart. And if you remember when you came to Carrera for that event, I spent most of my time with your mother. It wasn't spent with you because I'm a parent. And as bad as it was for you,

burying your child is the most unnatural thing on the face of the earth. So I want to hear about your brothers. I want to know who they were. I want to know what they did. I want to know what they were like. I want to know what they enjoyed. I want to know about their friends. I want to know about their girlfriends.

I want to know about their relationship with their face. families. I want to know all of it. Let's go leave. Tell me about your brother. I mean, first of all, thank you for having me. I really appreciate us having this conversation because I think it's really important and I'm really grateful that Parker's here as well. And, you know, we've both chosen to do something good with what we've gone through, which has been something that's absolutely terrible. And like you said, so many people at this point have now gone through. My brother's name was Devin. He was my best friend. He was five years older than me. So he was 23 when he passed and that was about three and a half years ago, which literally blows my mind because I cannot

believe it's been three and a half years since I'd seen my brother. He was six four and handsome and all my friends were obsessed with him and ripped and extremely active. I mean, growing up, he played every single sport that he could. He danced. He was hilarious. He would always, I feel like his mission in life was just to make anyone laugh. And he would always make me laugh, you know, even if I grew up, I was a very serious child. I was like really into dance and really into my things. And he would always just kind of bring me out of that and take the seriousness out of life a little bit, which I think was such a special gift. Yeah, but he struggled a little bit in school when he was about 14 and he was diagnosed with ADHD.

And his doctor put him on Adderall. And that was the first pill, the first thing that he had ever had before. He was very against drugs. He was against all. And I remember years later him telling my mom that that was the point where he was like, oh, like, I can feel like this. Like I can quiet my mind in this way. And I remember he was probably, he wasn't on it for very long because my mom saw him just like sitting in the grass, just staring.

And my brother was that kid that was just never still, you know, who's constantly doing things. So it had the opposite effect on him. Well, I mean, it is supposed to make you concentrate, you know, but it definitely, it was like to the endth degree. It just took his personality away, which I feel like was a sign of, I guess, how John, would affect him in the future. He's a very sensitive system. They didn't put him on a lower dose. No, they didn't.

My mom was like, you know what? Let's take, like, I do not want you taking this. Like, we're going to figure this out. I don't want you to be a completely different person. So she took him off of it. And he was off of it for a while. But then, you know, like you said, I think it's difficult because I think there has always been that temptation

when you were younger, you know, to do drugs. I know, like, you know, the 60s, 70s were crazy with drugs, but fentanyl wasn't around. And I think that's the biggest point that we need to make is, you know, kids are inherently irresponsible. Our brains are not developed. We are going to make stupid decisions. We are going to be influenced by our friends. We are going to be influenced by people who we think are cooler than us. That is just going to happen. But the reason that I think it's so important to talk about this is because we just need awareness. We need to know that this is not what it used to be, that it is 10 hundred times more dangerous than it has ever been. I mean, now, I was just talking in the DEA, and now it's 7 out of 10 pills contained fentanyl. And that is an absurd 70% of things that you're getting off the street could kill you. That is an insane statistic, you know, so I think I kind of went somewhere else. But anyways, my brother, you know, he was fluent. He was influenced to, you know, do drugs and started self-medicating.

You know, when he was around 16, 17, 17, it was something that was, you know, really hard that my family struggled with how to deal with that. And, you know, he was acting different. We could tell he was struggling. And he got a little bit better. And then he moved to Florida, which is the pill farm, as they call it, which is a really, you know, terrible place to be with drugs. And, you know, he struggled there as well. Or was he Delray? No, he was in, it was, he was like near Orlando, but like in the outskirts.

I don't know exactly. But yeah, it was hard. But it's wild because my brother was such a strong-minded person. What did he move to Florida for? He for a job. We had a family friend who offered in. He was in sales. He was a wonderful salesman because he was just so charismatic and personable.

And he could literally talk to anyone. Like we would be sitting in a restaurant and he'd look at someone and be like, oh, I'm going to go talk to that guy. Like, he looks interesting. I need to find out what he does and what his life story is. He was just so curious and just constantly wanted to learn more. I think that's why sales was so big for him. And he constantly was selling something new because he just wanted to know everything about everything. It was just so interested.

But, yeah, so he moved down in Florida and, you know, was struggling there. He was always trying to find his footing. And then he finally moved to California. And my mom and I were here. And he got clean. And he put the work in because... What was he using? He was using Xanax was his big, big thing.

But, I mean, I think he had used a lot of other things. I don't know exactly because he wouldn't really tell me. He wasn't boasting about the thing to think he was... We never did. No, no. Yeah. But Xanax was a struggle. And he actually got clean. And then he was doing a sales job where they provided Xanax and cocaine.

And I don't... Wait, wait, what job provides cocaine? I mean, a pharmaceutical company provides Xanax. Oh, I mean, me and... entire Wall Street, they're providing people with cocaine to keep them to do what they want to do. I mean, I think it would be shocking for us to hear how many industries have been. I mean, ballerinas for the longest time. I'm a dancer. I grew up as a dancer, you know, have used cocaine to be able to perform at the

extent that they need to, you know, not that they need it. And it keeps you thin. Right. So I think it's this has, it's not a new, you know, thing. I think just the fact that, you know, fentanyl is the new element that is changing the game. But yeah, so that was a crazy thing that his work now was influencing him. And not to say that he wasn't at fault, but that was a difficult situation. But after that, he got a new job and finally got clean. Like he was clean for a good year and a half, two years. The best I had ever seen him, It was over COVID. Like, he was staying in our house.

We were going on hikes. He was working out two days a week, like, or two times a day. And he was just great. Like, we spent, I'm honestly so grateful for COVID for that reason because we were just on top of each other, but it was the greatest time of my life, probably. But yeah, he had big aspirations that runs in the family. And I think... What did he want to do? What were his dreams?

What did he want to do? From when he was a younger, he always wanted to invent his own thing and have his own company. So whatever that meant, I mean, he was constantly inventing restaurants and tools and things and making prototypes and getting patents. And I remember we lived on a lake, he made a floating phone case for his phone. Then he like sold to everyone. their phone wasn't one sink and people um yeah he just had like always just such great ideas i won't say some of them because honestly i'm like maybe i'll make those myself lisha they're too good um but yeah he just he wanted to be the best version of himself as well he was huge into self-help

books and his journal is covered with sayings and motivational things on how to be the best how to make your brain worked the best. He was just always very trying to be the highest level of human being, you know, he could. But I think he, you know, struggled with not being where he wanted to be. And I think that that's where the self-medicating came in. And I don't know. I think we've talked about that too. It's just like he needed to, you know, kind of numb that part of himself. What was he using? First of all, how did he start using again after you guys were in a pot, right? Bring your own pod. Yeah, so it was the first time that he had ordered something in two and a half, two years.

And he was having a really hard time sleeping. So he ordered some percocet. And he got it off of the dealer on Instagram that he had used before, but hadn't used for no while. And the pill killed him, but it was eight milligrams of fat normal. First time? That first time back of like using since he was clean. What year was it? This was 2021.

And the pill, which is absolutely crazy, had absolutely no percocet in it. And it was eight milligrams of fentanyl, which is four times the deadly dose. So there's like, there's no way anyone's surviving that, no matter what tolerance, you know, they have. And at that time, he didn't have any sort of tolerance. So, yeah, and that's crazy. The next morning I found him and I found him. I did find him. Where'd you find out?

Yeah. He was on the couch in our living room. He was staying on the, like, our extra living room couch because it was COVID. But, yeah, he was out there, and he, I didn't really know he was supposed to be home. So I thought he was staying at his girlfriend at the time. And I walked out and saw him. and, yeah, his skin was, like, all purple. I mean, you know, what I feel like it looks like when people,

I don't think people know. But, yeah. Tell me. Geez. Fuck. This is the way it has to be. Because people have to know. Yeah, so I found him on the couch.

Yeah, his body was, like, purple. and we must have been sitting when he was taking the pill so he was like slumped over and I went around to go grab him and lift him up and you know I kind of knew then but then I yelled for my mom and my mom came out and we called 911 and tried to give him CPR but his muscles in his jaw had already locked up so we weren't able to give him mouth to him out Because, you know, it had been a few hours probably. I mean, I probably got up at eight, and I think he passed her on five or six. So it was pretty late.

Like, he was definitely struggling, sleeping, because he didn't go to bed until, you know, five or six. But, yeah, and then I think, honestly, the craziest thing to me, which is all such a blur, but I remember so distinctly that paramedics coming in and looking at him and saying, oh, this is fattenile. That was the first thing that they said. And we were like, what the fuck? Like, what are you talking about? Um, I had never heard the word fentanyl in my life, you know, I mean, I had never done drugs, but I feel like, you know, I know, I know the names of drugs. I had never heard of this. Obviously by 2021, this was already happening. Like, it had been going on for a long time, you know. Um, so, yeah, that was the first time I never heard of shat and all. And that, that was the first time I never heard of

And that day morning changed my life, changed. The trajectory of my life changed. I feel like my purpose in life. Yeah. Do you love his co-friend? Yes, he did. They weren't together for very long. So it was a very new relationship.

She was great. And yeah, that was a very hard time because she was with him, you know, the night before. Yeah, Moses. Did she, was she using drugs? No, no, she wasn't. No, she was a good end before. She was great. But, no.

Makes me happy, though. The night before was probably, well, yeah, the night before it happened, was probably one of the best nights we'd ever had together. I was doing chemistry reads for the second movie that I was in. and we had just watched the first one. And he was like outside the door listening to my chemistry reads telling me who he thought was best. And we decided that night I had been wanting to start a clothing brand that was like sweats that have like really good messages on it and like a brand that really stood for something. And he was like, you know, I really want to be a part of that.

Like I think I want to do this with you. And we were like brainstorming stuff. And my mom came back from a date because she was hitch dating at the time. And she was like, oh, that was a terrible date. He got me flowers, but it was just a weirdo. And so we were talking about that. And we were like brainstorming ideas and names for this brand. And she had like a Trader Joe's paper bag.

And she was writing them all on. And we decided what name and it was called Identified. Because we just really love what that meant of so many people are searching for their identity constantly. especially in a world where now there's so many boxes you can be placed in. And really, we shouldn't be placed in any of those because we're human and we're all different. And we should just identify ourselves as us. And that was all Devin. That was his idea.

That was his thing. And I think the last thing that we said to each other, he was like, we're going to look fucking sick in our clothes, like in our own clothes. And so it's very cool. And my mom and I actually started identified. So identified as a clothing brand that's two years old. and yeah, trying to carry on his legacy through that. That is a cool name. Oh, thanks.

Identified.com. Yeah, identified clo. That's cool. Yeah, so that's a nice thing, but I feel like I'm so blessed that we had that last night, and then he went to the beach with his girlfriend, which the beach was his favorite place. So I feel like, as much as it shouldn't have been his last night,

I'm very grateful that that's... it was. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All, okay. Please make her talk. Oh, yeah. We're going to make her talk, too.

Great. Talk to me. Tell me about your brother. Well, you know what's funny? Is that when Abe and I first met, we had coffee at Community Goods. And if you're in L.A. or on TikTok, you know, community goods is like the cafe to be where like Justin Beaver goes, blah, blah, blah. So we first met there and, you know, we talked about our brothers and it's kind of crazy how we do have like some similarities. So, you know,

like her brother was five years older. My brother was five years younger. My brother was 19 when he passed and I was 24 in June 2022. So same kind of thing. You know, drugs obviously come. in you know like there's a new like thing you know for instance you know when we were growing up or especially like my brother's age I guess to I guess all of us growing up because your brother was five years older Adderall was like you know and that type of drug was like a newer thing so for instance if your kid was acting up in the classroom and you know not being the proper six year old they're supposed to be the teacher will sit your parents down and be like your kid needs to like go see a psychiatrist and get like evaluated for ADD, ADHD, but in real life, it's like, while you have a six-year-old or a 10-year-old and

they're acting up because they're six years old or 10 years old, whatever the fuck their age is, it's like, come on. Like, they're just being a kid. It's also what you guys are describing to me is 4% of the population. So your brothers were entrepreneurial. So ADHD for them was a gift. Yeah. But also it's like, I know of so many people that have been prescribed by doctors Adderall, Xanax, or whatever, because these kind of doctors, majority of the time are yes doctors. Because they don't take insurance. You're paying like $350 for 15 minutes to get prescribed a pill. So at the end of the day, these doctors, in my opinion, are really doing the actual necessary steps and evaluating properly. So they're just like, hey, here's a check. Like, here's a pill. Come back in six weeks and come. And. come get your new script. They get an hour in four years of medical school. They get one hour on addiction medicine.

One hour. They know less than nothing. So, you know, I don't know what age. I think it was like, you know, probably around 10 years old when my brother was first, maybe not 10. That sounds like crazy, but maybe probably like 12, I would say, like when he first was prescribed, I don't know, because when a parent comes to, when you're sending your kid to like a good school and the teacher's like, you know, to your.

parent like you need to get your kid on like out or all they need to go see a doctor they're acting up you know as a parent you're like you don't know much about what's you know what the effects are you know you're listening to people you're supposed to like rely on but I think that they these teachers just don't want to deal with their kid they want they want to teach you know easy sit back kids but like people my brother and I were just very like we do what like we're we listen and obey but we're definitely like our like characters you know he was very funny I'm I think I'm funny. But like, so we've always, like, my mom told me yesterday, like, about me that, like, I purposely, like, failed an interview in school and I was the only kid in the class that didn't

get into the next school because I wanted to be with my friends at a different school. So, like, we, we were always, like, I don't know, we just, we were smart. But anyway, so he, that's how we got started on drugs. He, you know, was prescribed at all the all. Same thing, you know, all of a sudden was super hyperfocused and not eating it, like a side effect of those kind of drugs, is you don't eat. So that eventually led into an eating disorder too. And it just literally, I feel like suppressed his natural growth, you know, because yeah, you're just taking something that's like he's not really meant for him. I don't think he was like ADD or ADHD. When I look at other kids that I know or people that I know that actually have ADD, ADHD, I'm like, that wasn't

my brother. He was just being a kid. The teacher was just being a lazy wedge. The teacher probably gives her kid night to fall asleep. Probably. That kind of, that kind of laziness, right? For sure. But, you know, then it ended up, you know, yeah, like he was never a big drinker ever. But eventually, you know, it led into Xanax, which your brother was also, like, that was his, like, drug of choice. That was my brother's drug of choice. And I feel like, because, like, Adderall's, like, pretty much prescription cocaine, like, no one wants to feel like that. So they're, like, they, you know, result to downers. So my brother's things were, like, downers. Like, Xanax.

Well, you were still on the Adderall? No, my mom, I'm like gone him off that stuff, but I don't, he never really like like that, so I don't think so. The other way. Went the other way. So his heart was like like this. Yeah, literally couldn't heart, you know, palpitations couldn't sleep. And it also makes you unable to sleep, unable to eat.

There's like nothing good about this drug, whatever. It's speed if you're not like her brother. If you're not, see, it had. That's why I asked if it had the opposite effect. For your brother, it clearly wasn't the right way to go because it was speed. It doesn't feel like speed if you have the ADHD. For sure. It's like being on meth.

100%. So, yeah, that's kind of like how we got into that. And then, you know, by 16, my parents sent him to wilderness. And there's a lot of... That's a rehab. That's a rehab for kids under 18. So, you know, if, like, people don't know when you turn 18 and you go to, like, a rehab, you can check yourself out because you're a legal adult.

But under 18, you know, you have to stick to the program that you're, that you're, like, not even, or you can be required or sent to because you're not a legal adult. So he was sent when he was 16 and to Utah, don't know the name, but he. Provo, Utah. I have no idea. But my brother actually. But my brother actually liked the wilderness aspect of it. He liked being out in the woods.

He liked doing all that stuff. Like, yes, he was taken away by like men in the middle of the night and was begging not to go in a lot of feet. Like, that's like the thing that like Paris Hilton and everyone has like stigma around, you know, they're like, it like traumatize them, which I'm sure like it is a traumatizing thing. You know, but for some reason, my brother really like liked the experience. He wasn't a gentle intervention. He was snatched in the middle of the middle of night. But he like, I don't know about that part, but he like loved the wilderness aspect. And then, but he didn't eventually led into a boarding school, which he didn't like.

But yeah, like, you know, we tried that. Then soon after he became a legal adult and then, you know, there was kind of nothing we could do about it besides the times that he wanted to go to a detox center and get clean and stuff like that. So I would say in 20. I just want to touch on that, okay? Mm-hmm. So he had the awareness that he wanted to get well. Yes, he did. So he got better.

So he started dating this lovely girl Sabrina and then in COVID 2020. I still had my apartment in L.A. And my family is like from Laguna Beach. So we were just like an hour-ish down like the 405. So I would be back and forth between then. And then my brother, I was like, why don't you move in with me? So he came and moved in with me, which I'm. I'm so grateful for that time because, you know, it obviously was like leading Tim a vegetable not being here.

But I'm grateful for the time that we got to spend together. He moved in with me for like a year. And it was a great year. We had like a lot of fun. I mean, obviously boys are like super messy. And he was like 18 at the time, you know. So I'm like, mom. But, you know, like pick up, you know, do your laundry.

Like pick up the trash, take out the trash. But it was good. It was fun. And, yeah, like, he got clean, I think around then to, like, yeah, to like 2021. He was clean for like a year and a half, just like your brother. You know, started dating a really good girl. He just wanted to get better, go to detox center, go to continue going to that center to, like, to therapy sessions. He was really putting in the work.

And then, you know, I guess, you know, when you're a kid and you look at all your friends who are, like, drinking. and smoking weed, you know, he thinks like he was, like, missing out on, like, life in a way. And, like, I can understand that to a degree, you know, being, getting sober young was a really hard thing to do. I could, I could only imagine. So, um, eventually he started dabbley with weed again. And then, you know, that just started leading to more and more and more. And so, um, towards the end, he died June 9th, 2020. I would say, like, two, I saw him, like, sober, like the last time sober, April, in mid-April.

Right after that, it was just, like, a downfall. Like, he broke up with his girlfriend. What was he on? He, any, like, downers, any downers, no uppers. Any painkillers? Pain killers, yes. So pain killers? And others and Benz's.

Yes. Like anything like that. Just all the downers he was. Seedepress? I would say he was definitely like depressed. Yeah, he was just struggling. So that's why they call him pain killers. It actually works better emotional pain than physical pain.

I'm sure if you're depressed and you take a painkiller, you're hooked. Yeah. Because it gives you that. Like you can breathe again. You can breathe again. You're not depressed, right? And at the beginning, it works, right? But you graduate from fun or relief to fun with problems to all problems.

Yeah. And it always goes that way. I just want to say one thing. Neither one of your brothers shot dope, did they? No. They never did. I don't think so. They never did drugs interveniously.

so this can happen to anyone you don't need to be an interbenous drug user. No, I mean, I know people who unfortunately had ADHD and 14-year-olds who tried it for the first time and it had fentanyl in it. So it's like this is not only, I feel like that's such a misconception. Did they die? Yeah. 14th first hard. But they got it at, that's right. And that from a pharmacy.

Yeah. Let me ask you a question. Ask me a question, please. Okay. Did you know what he wanted to do, what his dreams were? Because, you know. So my brother, he also kind of like, I think our brothers were just like so alike with the way you just describe him. But he also was like wanting to do everything and like had big dreams, had big ideas.

He just like wanted to like, for instance, like our thing was like we're always, we're going to get a house in Mexico. co together. We're going to have our families go there one day. Like we just like, well, if we want to crush it in this life so we can have like so much fun together, like eventually with our families. So he had like big dreams, but like did he struggle with what like that dream looked like for sure. Especially like nowadays like kids, there's so much pressure on them. You look at Tarley DeMilio, for instance, like who made probably like a hundred million. That's probably like crazy amount. Let's just say, like, maybe like even $1 million at 16 years old is insane. I'm 26.

I haven't made a million dollars. My daughter loves that person. That's the first time I heard the name. She's great. And I'm just like using her as an example that like these kids have like so much pressure on them now. They're like, I need to be like successful by 18 years old and have a million dollars in the bank account. I need to know what my life looks like. I need to have the nicest cars, have the house, all by an unrealistic age.

If you go to middle America, you know, this is like so not normal. Like, L.A. has such a toxic mind. Like, it's just a toxic reality. A lot of people here like to fake that they have what they have. Edge over substance. Yes. And so these kids are looking at all. Like, my brother was on TikTok.

He was a TikToker hung out with influencers, celebrities. Yeah. Whatever. So, but he was, you know, he was, you know, he was. always compare himself to people like, why don't I have like this and that? Like, I need to work hard. I don't know what to do. Like, how do I get to that? So just nowadays with social media, you know, you look at someone and you're like, why don't I have what they have? And that's what he always struggled with. And I feel like that's what a lot of people at any age now struggle with.

The comparisons, like, yeah, the unrealistic beauty standards, unrealistic money standards. I don't know. He, like, looked into it all and was just like, what can I do to be there? But I think like really towards the end he was like I've struggled when he was towards the end he started he tried getting like clean again. So that's what like is like really upset about all this that like he really was like weaning himself like off the drugs. But he really wanted to open up a treatment center. That was like his big goal. Really? Yeah.

Like he really, he's such an empath and always had the biggest heart. Like he cared more about other people's well being other like more than himself. So it's like Yeah like he Like days before he died He started on Discord Discord is like a new app Where you can like

It's like a big chat room Where you could just like talk to people I'm still like getting really familiar with it So like I'm so like bad at social media It's really hard for me So but you know he started one for like mental health Like hey everyone come into this chat room And like talk to each other

Like help each other uplift each other talk about what's going on and, you know, like, we're all here for each other. So, like, he always, his, like, end goal is always to help other people. So did he prioritize that more than himself, for sure? Was he struggling with his own stuff for sure? But he channeled that into a way to also, like, connect with other people and help them at the same time. So his, yeah, his big dream goal at the end, at least, was definitely to open up a treatment center, somehow, some way. And now that's through us. which is great.

But yeah. Both of your brothers were entrepreneurial. Yeah. I just think like empath. It's just like, I don't care so much. It's almost like, I don't know if you feel this way, but I always thought my brother, like the way his brain worked, I had never met anyone that had the brain like his.

Like he was so loving and caring and smart and artistic and logical. And like I almost feel like they were too brilliant for this world. that they really couldn't fit in a place. And that's where they all started of like, well, I need to fix myself because I don't fit here. That's 100% how I feel. That's bullshit. That's bullshit.

Your brother wasn't good at school, was he? He was great at school. Really? He was great at school. Your brother wasn't good at school. He actually was great at math and stuff like that. My brother was so smart. He crushed it.

I got to try so hard in school. And like, I would study my ass off. And my brother, like, he was the person who, Sometimes wouldn't do the homework, so maybe his grade wasn't the greatest. But he wouldn't study, go and take a test, he said. He was so smart. Like, I can't even, his, I think that's why his brain was just constantly going to, because he was constantly intaking so much information in drew it out.

Like he said, he was so curious, which I think is something that has always inspired me. Like, he was always learning something new, always reading a new book, always listening to a new podcast, always found someone inspirational. And that's what, yeah, it's just, it's wild that I. I know, you know, I've even talked to Meredith about her, her brother, another person that we know who's lost her brother to fentanyl. And it's wild the similarities of their personality. They were just bigger than life. Like they...

Totally. I so agree with that. And like, I feel like, yeah, just like too sensitive to take on everything at the same time. But I completely agree. It's very interesting. I love the fact that they're so empathetic, right? to the exclusion of themselves, right? And that's common for empaths, right?

It's do as I say, not as I do. And then they have this pain, right? Because they want to fix the world. And I do the guilt, too, of knowing what they're putting us through. Like, virtual. It is a very difficult place to be to be a family member of a user. Like, I don't think we talk about that enough either. And, like, being a parent of the user, like,

my mom was the most loving, caring mom. She did everything she possibly could for him. Not to say there's different things that you could do now that we've understood the illness more, but I can't imagine, because my brother's aware. He knew what he was putting us through. I can't imagine the amount of guilt and shame that he was carrying around that at the time

I didn't have the capacity to really understand that, you know? Because I even think, like, back to Abbot and conversations with him and I was so angry at him for using. I was like, why are you? Like, this is so stupid. Like, I couldn't understand it. But there's just, it's so much more complex than I think we give credit to, for sure. How are your parents? My, I don't really talk to my dad, but my, was your, was he close with your dad? He was closer than I was, but we weren't very close. but my mom is okay.

I mean, like you said, I don't think a parent should ever lose their child before, you know, they're gone. But she is the strongest woman I've ever met in my life. She's been through so much. She lost her sister, actually. When she was 18, her sister was 23, and then I lost Devin when I was 18 and he was 23. So it's really like the amount of things that she's been through in her life. I mean, nothing compares to this, but she's a very incredible woman. But she's just trying to get by.

But they were close. They were very, very close. How about your mother, who I met, were your mother and your brother close? So close. Like, we were all, like, best friends. What about your father? So close. He was the favorite child.

There were, if there was a favorite child, it was definitely Cooper. 100 was a 100%. 100%. 100%. And for a mother, it's usually the boy. For the father, it's usually the girl. Yeah, I was just a hard time. I'm a hard ass.

I know, you're a handful. But in the best possible way. 100%. But. Can I just tell you guys something? Honestly, you are the best people. People are asking me for money to do this. We've got a gazillion followers.

They've got a gazillion followers, Richie. We got to have them. It'll make a difference. And I said, fuck them. No way. Only good souls need to apply, right? Because otherwise it's horseshit.

You guys are going to save so many lives, and you've already done it. Because people listen to you. You guys are going, straight to heaven. You're not as well. Hope so. Bro.

Thank you though. It's not easy. I'm just grateful that, you know, we both have a platform to be able to use it for this, for sure. And I think a lot of, I don't know, I think it's the best thing that you could do

is, you know, turn something that you've been through. I feel like it is the only way to give it purpose. I don't know how you feel, but what happened to him doesn't make sense and he was poisoned and that doesn't make sense. I believe that he was also such an incredible person that didn't deserve that. But, yeah.

I want to ask you. I want to ask you guys a question, and it's a policy question. You know, this is our home. This is where we live. How do you feel about the government allowing the influx of what happens is the Chinese send in.

It comes from China and it goes into Mexico, the chemicals to make fentanyl. And then what they do is in Mexico they put the shit in a goddamn vat, right? And they wear a has-pats suit because they know, right? And then with a big wooden stick, they stir this stuff, which is why your brother got 80%, which is why your brother had no burqaset. Right.

in his pill. Because you're stirring it, and one pill is going to have very little, and the other pill is going to kill you, right? So how do you feel about people who are supposed to be taking care of us, not doing their job and letting these drugs into our country? I mean, I think the sad part about the United States is. is that we are a money-making country. We don't care who dies. We just want money. But this isn't, hold on, but this isn't big pharma.

This is- No, what, our government, they're not doing shit about anything. I feel like it's a difficult thing. You know, I've been able to meet with the DEA and sit down with them and talk to them in D.C. and it's just really crazy because I never thought about how powerful the cartels truly are and you know how powerful it's a whole other government it's a whole other working system and I feel where our government is lacking I mean we have confiscated so many pills from the border

I do think you know there are ways that we could get even more 100%. I think we can work harder and I hope that people are doing that but I think where our government has failed us as awareness I think We made other illnesses like COVID and other crises that have been happening in our world so much more important than this one. And that's where I question, why isn't this important? Why don't we share that? Don't question it. Why is it? I personally, it's hard.

I don't have all the answers, but I personally think it's because of the stigma that surrounds our genes. That is. That is so, I mean, this is the number one cause of death of people between 18 and 15. 45. At this point, I think it is our right to know that it's out there and we should know what we can do. We should know about Narcan, the amount of people that I know that have no idea what Narcan is, no idea that they can save lives. It's the fact that our president doesn't find it important to speak out about it and have education in schools and all of this, you know, the fact that we have to start our own nonprofits and put all of our life's work into this terrible thing that

happen to us just to try to save people's lives and do the things that the government or the news or they could do in two seconds and get so much information out there. So I think that's where I feel like we're failed is there's just, it feels like no one care. He's in a president who is the most powerful man on the face of the earth that has a pulpit where the whole globe listens. Yeah. And he can't talk about. this epidemic in a way that is empathetic and impatient. Often. Not once. Often. Isn't that insane? I think it also discredits what's happening. I think there's so much misinformation out there

because this is just coming from people trying to get the information out there. You know, it's just like, if it was coming from that source, people would understand. I feel people would understand the weight, the severity of the situation, you know? So yeah, I mean, I go, to me, I feel like now it's too late. Like now we've, we've already lost so many people, so many. Yeah, but it's growing exponentially. Remember what we talked about at the beginning, right? Yeah. It's grown 30-fold in the last 10 years. Yeah. Okay. But most of it has been in the last five. Yeah. Okay. Like when I left treatment, this wasn't even a thing. This was not even a thing. We were talking about Oxycontin, right, in Purdue Pharma and that kind of stuff, right? We weren't talking about fetidol. I mean, honestly, I didn't know shit about fentanyl. And some people think I'm like the guy who should know things. Yeah.

Right? I missed it. I thought it was bath salts. It was wrong. It blows my mind. And it's just like people still don't understand what's happening. Like the amount of people that I still have asked me like, oh, well, why did he take fentanyl? I'm like, my God. Like he was, like he didn't choose to. He was poisoned. So let me tell you what's happening now in California. So there's this man that I met. And I don't. know his name. Because I never call him by his name.

He's Alexandra's father. And that's how I refer to him. And he's trying to get a law passed called Alexander's Law. Right? Let me tell you what this is. All it is is a goddamn traffic ticket. That's it.

It's like a one-time get-out-of-jail free card for dealers. And what they're asking for in Alexandra's law is very simple. They get a dealer who's dealing fentanyl and they give them a ticket. And they say, okay, this is your one time get out of jail free card. Do it again. You're going to jail. That's all it is. And it can't be passed in California.

I'm an independent. I don't have a horse in this race. Okay? And the reason they're saying that they don't want to pass that is because minorities are also not just dealing it, but also use it on a greater percentage basis, right, than Caucasians. That's what they're saying. Okay. And so before you guys got involved, we had a. a bunch of mothers come out.

And a lot of them were mothers of color. And I said, and I talked to them about this. And I said, how do you feel about this? And on camera, one of these women said, what do I give a shit what color the dealer is? Okay. Who's going to protect my, my, our black and brown children? who's going to protect them.

Isn't that insane? And the reason this is happening is because they're conflating two issues. So you guys are too young to remember the crack epidemic in the late 80s and 90s when everybody was doing crack. And what happened was they were arresting people of color far more

with crack. And crack cocaine which is just cooked up powder. That's all it is. Okay? And powdered cocaine that you can snort were treated differently, right? And so, which was wrong.

And what they said and what they're doing now is they're conflating the issue. They're saying this is just like the crack epidemic of the 80s and 90s, and it's not. Do you know what the difference is? they're not getting what they ask them. When you were buying crack, you were getting crack. Now you're buying Percocet and getting fentanyl and dying.

Totally different. Our politicians are so fucking stupid, it's painful. Painful. And they don't give a shit about us. Not at all. So if you want to know what the solution is, that's what you need to be talking about. because if you're not talking about that, there isn't going to be change.

You guys are young and you're activists, okay, and people listen to you and your friends. That is what you should be talking about. That way, the people who run to represent us in government are going to be on board with what we believe and take this epidemic, give it a priority, treat it like the emergency that it is. That's all I got.

You know, there's already new drugs that are coming out, you know, like carfet and all, and there's something else where Narcanus isn't going to work. And I think, you know, even if we were able to get rid of all this time, there's always going to be something. So it's like that's why awareness is so important and education is so important. For sure, but then you've got kids in,

that you know, you've got kids that don't get the message. Yeah. You know? And so it's got to be everything. It can't be a shotgun. It's got to be a machine gun effect. And part of the awareness is talking about that our politicians are not taking care of us. And we should only be voting for people that give a shit about us.

Yeah You should run I'm actually really grateful No stop it Uh uh uh uh uh Has invited us to his round table to be able to talk Which is Congratulations

Congratulations We're a lot For what We're we're Listen no No No Okay. You can run for city council. Why not?

I just saw my train. It was better than you. People who have more time. I mean, I think as much as this is a huge part of my purpose and my heart, I have a tree that I, you know. And you should have them and talk about it. You guys have a platform that I don't. Yeah. Part of what I'm doing here is trying to educate you.

to talk about the right shit. Yeah. And you guys are bringing awareness. God bless your souls. The next step is the solution. Because you're already part of the solution. The next step in the solution is, if not you,

then people like you where it is their dream, where they do. Look, guys, why not yourself? Because I lost two decades to crowd cocaine. Right? And, you know, that doesn't fly. Okay?

But there's nothing to get here. There's only to give. We have to leave this place better than we found it. The end. You know what's like super concerning too? Is that one of my assistants? She's 24. And she told me that she's never tried a drug in her life.

and like people look at her weird for that. People judge her for not trying a drug. No, that's a percent. No, no, no, no, no. And that's... No, that's horseshit. That's horseshit. Okay?

She's just with the wrong crowd. Well, yes, but isn't that sad that someone who is like, she's so up here and such a good... No, no, it's not. It's a life lesson, okay? Anything toxic in your life you get rid of. I think it's just also, we've been... and so trained as a society. I mean, I think, you know, we watch all these shows

and we watch all these movies and teenagers are supposed to drink and teenagers are supposed to do drugs and we watch euphoria and that influences the way we fit poverty and we watch. And so I think, yes, 100% I think it's all about who you surround yourself with, but I do think that we have as a society created a normal that is you do use drugs and you do drink. And so when you are abnormal, people look at,

you as such. And sorry. No, have you seen you for you? Yeah. It glamorizes, parting, drugs, alcohol, sex. But that's always going to happen. But sex cells and...

Of course, no, but... Well, in a way where we're nowadays, like maybe when I was not in school, yeah, everyone was doing that stuff. But now it's like these younger kids, like, you know, my dad had to go to a court hearing for a 15-year-old who died from fentanyl.

from weed and from smoking weed with fentanyl that was late that's happening now so yes it is and so no matter what like you know it's influence like it's influencing like it's influencing our generation that doesn't need to be influenced for the stuff because nowadays yeah like I mentioned before like it is a matter of like like when you're going to die trying drugs nowadays it's it's not worth the risk and people aren't being you know yeah our government isn't giving enough awareness the most I've seen as a fucking bus flyer next to the bus stop. And you know why it's at the bus stop?

Because like how, well, how you said, like, you know how it's targeted toward people like a lower income bracket. Like, oh, like they're the ones that are like doing it. I've never seen a billboard. You know, you see the billboard like coming down to Santa Monica about how many people die from cigarette smoke or sorry, sorry, smoking cigarettes a year. It's like what, yeah. It's like, what about What about fentanyl? It's so much. There's nothing, there's no big exposure on it. It's killing everybody. It's killing people in the inner city.

And you know what's crazy actually? So you know what's crazy? So after the event, so career hosted event in Malibu, you know, where I got to speak and show friends about. At our event? Yeah, I are event. So one of my friends after she went to like the botanical gardens and somewhere around there. Don't know. but she was just brolicking by herself, just taking, you know, everything in.

And some guy came up to her, some, like, older guy. And, you know, they started talking and he was like, oh, I'm here because I, like, needed to clear my mind because one of my good friends just passed from fentanyl. And she was like, I was just at an event, like, bringing on awareness. And they got to talking for, they were there for like three hours talking. But it's happening to people of all age. of all ages. And obviously we're talking about illegal fentanyl, but I've now seen a lot of doctors using fentanyl as like a pain med more so when you come in for like any type of like injury or treatment. Yeah. So and it used to not be that way. Prescribing it a lot easier now, which is wild.

So fentanyl if like the people, if you guys don't know, is 50 times stronger than morphine and 50 and 100 times stronger than heroin. So doctors now. Huh? I like that you know the table. Yes. So my cousin recently gone to a car crash. Like this is like a month ago.

And the doctor without like giving her no like giving her any information gave her fentany in a car crash. She didn't she only bruised a rib by the way, which is like that hurts but that's not like suck it up. Bruised a rib. nothing crazy, gave her fentanyl, and she screamed at them because she was like my little cousin just died recently of fentanyl. So how dare you guys give me this without permission? I just think the world is lacking so much empathy in so many different ways right now,

whether that's the doctor actually taking a second to look at this person as a human being and seeing what the drugs are actually going to do. Yeah, or that's the president understanding what's happening to family. or that's other people, not judging people for using drugs and actually understanding the cause of it. It's just like it all comes down to just sitting back, being quiet, listening, and just having a little bit of empathy for people. Why you guys don't understand that? Why? Because your brothers had empathy and they had an intellectual curiosity.

And for a guy to go through medical school and then do his, rounds for eight years, to not have any intellectual curiosity is socially irresponsible bordering on the criminal. For sure.

Good, now you guys know it's talking about out in the moment. I'm so proud of the both of you. It's... Well... Well, this whole experience has been interesting for my family and I. You know, we had to go to court yesterday.

It was our third time being in the courtroom. With the person who gave my brother the pill that killed him. And we've also been in the courtroom with the person above him who like, is like the ringleader, I'll say. What's happening with that? I don't know if I'm like allowed to talk about like the in-depth deed. Why not? It's a criminal case is a matter of public record.

Oh, I don't know. Well, I'm telling. But it's me, well, the good to know, because I kind of, I'm like looking at these lawyers and these people and these judges, you know, and I'm just like, wow, maybe I'll do a freaking 180 like Kim Kardashian, like study law and become a lawyer, which will take years. Because of the stoicism in the court and the lack of empathy? Yeah, like lack of empathy from a lot of, yeah, it's interesting. The judges are, they're seeing more cases up and all. and they're being, they're being strict. You know, like these guys have been denied.

This guy particularly has been denied bail three times. Really? So he's been in prison for how long? Around like Thanksgiving time. So like, what, four months? Wait a minute. Oh, so they just caught him. Your brother passed away when?

2020. Okay, well, we're in 2024. So 2023. So they caught him. Like 18 months later. Right. So they caught him 18 months after? Because it's, um, the first.

at like the phone records, they have to dig through everything. It's such a process. You know, like we still don't have my brother's phone. Like the DEA, they all have it in the lawyers. Like, we haven't seen it since. So, which is, it's just an interesting, gut-wrenching, sickening feeling. To look at the person who gave my brother the pill, staring him down my eyes and him smirking at me.

Shut the fuck up. It's hard. And I, yeah, it's, fucked up. Really? Just sitting there smirking at you. Thinking that he's going to be let go, but I hope he rots in hell. Because at the end of the day, you may have been a low-life drug dealer.

We're the person who killed my brother. And I will go after every single person in this chain. And I will go after you. If they won't, I will. Do you guys out him on social media as the person that sold fentanyl to your brother? Um, not, no. But I guess it's a public record, right? If it's public record, go get the public record.

Go get the public record. If it's public, if it's public, you know, listen, I'm not a lawyer. I just slept at a holiday in last night. So just go ahead and talk to your lawyer. But literally, I would go get, I would send your lawyer down to the courthouse and get a copy of the record. Yeah. I mean, this case is also super interesting as well, like my brother passing because, like I mentioned, he was like on TikTok and was like doing social media. You know, a lot of people that we like love and hold close to our hearts, you know, found out through like news outlets like TMZ, page sex, New York Times, e-news. Literally like every outlet covered this. So it was really, it was a public.

death, like a lot of his fans still mourn, you know, to the stay. It's just been, like, very interesting, the whole process. And I was getting, I was getting at something with this, but I forgot. Okay, I do that 10 times a day. Yeah. Okay, 10 times in a hour. But, yeah, I don't know. It's kind of inspired me, like, maybe, like, just go after people, like, like, the guys

that we have to look at in court. crush them. I don't know. Talk. Talk. Maybe that's, maybe that's my calling. I don't know. You know, listen, I, I, I'm just trying to think of all solutions, right? And about awareness. I'm not trying to be vindictive, okay, or harm anybody. But if there is a public record of it, okay, you should ask your lawyer, it seems like for social media to post that. Oh, sorry, that's what I was going to have. They actually, like, did cover that to, like, oh, like the person, like has been a rest in. They did. I don't know if they disclosed names, but, you know, it's, it's out there. I ain't out. I won't. It's hard for me to, like, look at articles like that. So I, like, try to

avoid, I see, like, my brother's fans make edits all the time. It's hard for me to look at. Like, I, I'm, I'm kind of closed off my emotions. Got to work on that one. There you go. But, um, it's, it's a lot. Like, this being, like, very public has been, like, Are you seeing a therapist? I was. Why'd you start? I don't know. I went to Fashion Week and I did like New York, Milan.

Yeah, anyways. And I like, I like fell off, you know? Like, I just kind of like, oops, like, didn't go back. Are you with the therapist? Yeah. Yeah, I need to go back. I moved it to like once every two weeks now. That's okay.

But it used to be once a week for my brother. So, I mean, actually since before I was with the third. there was before as well. But yeah, it's good. But yes, no, I get like, I also, it hasn't been inconsistent. Yeah, no. It's hard. It's hard.

But, like, I do need to go back because I do. It's such a weird thing. Like, it's almost we're approaching two years in two months, which is fucking crazy. It's just time has, you know, flown by. But I've noticed myself getting for sure angrier. You guys have time I've something. You guys have to understand something. Okay, this is very simple.

Look at me. If your stressors are here, okay, your support has to be here. Okay? Because if your support isn't above, then your stressors are here, and that's when you create wreckage, you get depressed, you know, all bad things, habit. And this is how responsible adults deal with their problems. it is okay and you got to do it this is the this is it is the ultimate luxury to have that type of

support so don't think differently there's nothing there's nothing better i see i saw my therapist three times a day three times a day no i was like am right miss lunch out dinner yeah no no no three Right. Three times a week on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and I spaced it out so I could process. But I did that for about 70 years. Well, you're also lucky enough to be able to do that. I can't afford that. I'm like so cut off. That's not true. That's not true. There are very talented people I've spoken in all sorts of psychological colleges. And these people come out that are in their last year. And then even that, they have to do, I think it's like 3,000 hours of therapy. You find somebody in their last thousand hours, okay?

They're fresh. They're seasoned. And you find it, you find somebody with a good soul like that. Go to the psychological colleges, call them up and say, hey, I need a therapist. I don't have a lot of money, but I'm in trouble. Well, you know what? That's really good advice for the young kids that are listening who don't have. Like, yeah

That advice for you Well, yeah I mean, but It's but yeah It's got to be regular guys I know I was gonna say a little I think

I feel like we have to remind ourselves That we did choose to do this But we don't have to Exactly And it's beautiful Any effort that we can give To give Or sure

Activism is amazing And the work that you've already done That's been so amazing So don't feel that those things that you need to do, you know, and that's why it's... Yeah, but now I'm attached to you guys, so this doesn't have anything to do with anybody else. This has to do with, I want you. You said you're getting angrier.

Yeah. What I want is for peace to be in the moment because you guys have gone through so much. For sure. I'm here all night, folks. We can do this. We can back around it all day long, okay? But really. Okay. It's about being heart-centered. You're already the best people I know. Okay. Truthfully, you are good people. To have to revisit this pain all the time is heroic. And so I don't want it to take a toll on you. Yeah. That's all that. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Right. Last words. Last words. Last words. That's worth. Educate yourselves. Yes. On fentanyl, on the epidemic, educate yourselves because it's just happening, you know, over 150 people a day. And, you know, I actually had an acquaintance recently lose her brother, too. And she's like the fourth, including myself, one I know because she lost her brother to this epidemic. So I think educate yourselves on fentanyl, educate yourselves on how. how to use Narcan, how you can save a life, and tell your friends, like, it's just not worth

a risk snorting that one bump of cocaine, well, could kill you. It's not worth it. It's just not worth it. And I can't emphasize that enough. Yeah, I agree. I think have those hard conversations, whether it's with your friends, or it's with your daughter, or it's with your son, or it's with your brother. and listen and try to approach those conversations without judgment. Yes. But yeah, I think the best thing that we can do is educate ourselves and talk about it. Thank you, Ruth, for coming.

Thanks for having us. Because we're out of time. We're out of time. Please subscribe on YouTube, click the thumbs up, and leave a comment. Please subscribe on Apple Podcast and Spotify and leave a rating and a review. And share the We're Out of Time podcast with others you know who will get value out of it. See you next Tuesday.