We're Out of Time - Is this the WORST Drug Epidemic in History? Dr. Kenneth Spielvogel

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Join Richard Taite and special guest Dr. Kenneth Spielvogel as they explore the impact of the drug epidemic on mental health in this thought-provoking video. Is this the worst drug epidemic in history? Watch to find out more. Dr. Kenneth Spielvogel is a Senior Medical Officer with a Special Interest in Addiction Medicine. For all things Richard Taite, the We're Out Of Time podcast, and Carrara Treatment Wellness & Spa: https://linktr.ee/richardtaite Key moments from this conversation with Dr. Kenneth Spielvogel & Richard Taite. Intro 00:00 What dangers are youth facing today that they weren't a generation ago? 00:40 Are we seeing the first decrease in overdose-related deaths in the past half-decade? 01:38 What substance are some addicts using that isn't fit for humans? And WHAT animal is it intended for? 04:14 Fentanyl crisis, a matter of national security? 7:03 Did the policies of the past 4 years lead to the increase in drug trafficking? 11:16 What exactly is Pink Cocaine, and why has it been in the news lately? 19:43 What truly is the gateway drug? 22:10

which is why they started calling it, zombie drug. People walking around literally with, like, rigid arms and legs in a zombie-like walk. Putting families in the worst trauma that they could ever have. I don't think that usage-wise, I doubt working to see a big decline in usage, but number of deaths definitely decreased. Interesting in 2024, there was actually the first year of a decrease in opioid-related deaths. You know why that was? I like to know what we're going to go over so I can prepare so I sound like I know what I'm talking about.

Excellent. We don't need to prepare for this. Okay. Well, then let's just jump right into it. What I want to talk about today is all these new designer drugs, right? All the drugs that are out today because it was different than when you and I were kids. When we were kids, there was cocaine. There was heroin.

There was mushrooms. There was acid. There was alcohol. And weed. And weed. That was it, really, right? I mean, he had some prescription pills. Right.

But that was it. And today, you've got all this menagerie of stuff. And it's more dangerous because we don't know what's in them. They're all synthetic. Right. Right. Well, let's run through them. Let's do it. So, you know, Fennell's daddy, right? So interesting in 2024, there was actually the first year of a decrease in opioid related deaths. You know why that was? Why? Because they're dead. That is so bad. But it's true. Right? I mean, people are dead. Users are dead. And probably there's a little bit more street. knowledge of Narcan. So those two are really it. I don't think the usage-wise, if they did it just like raw usage-wise, I doubt we're going to see a big decline in usage, but number of deaths

definitely decreased. You know, fentanyl is a drug that we use regularly in the hospital. It's used for acute pain. It's a great drug. It's a great drug in obstetrics, and I'll tell you why. Because number one, it's rapid onset. So somebody comes in extreme pain, needs pain relief, give a drug 50 to 100 microgram. So now we know why they like it. Right. Fast onset. Well, look, it's the closest manufactured synthetic opioid to heroin.

Right. So heroin is very fast. Right. So they are very similar as a drug. So rapid onset, wrap it off. Minimal crossing across the placenta. So you don't get a baby that's overly sedated. So a great drug in obstetrics.

A great drug for a Q-Pain in the ER, in the OR even, very potent with minimal use. Problem being, right, the difference between a therapeutic dose and a lethal dose is minuscule. It's, you know, drops of sand, grains of sand, if you will. When the DEA this past year in 2024 took pills that were illegally manufactured, The average, listen to this number, it's insane. 42% of those pills had a two gram dose of fentanyl in them.

That's lethal. 42%, almost half the doses. Wow. Yep. That's why they're dropping. Right. And people will say, well, now we can screen and we can test and we have chem strips. Problem being, and I think we talked about this last time, right?

It's like a chocolate chip cookie. you get one little section of that cookie that's got more concentrated dose of fentanyl and you strip off a little bit of the pill and test it and it looks uniform and clean. It still isn't necessarily clean. That's right. So fentanyl is an ongoing problem. We can recognize that. Let's move on to another one.

So carfetnal, which is essentially a drug unfit for human beings. Listen to this. It's essentially a tranquilizer that was used to put down. Elephants in the zoo. So it's an elephant tranquilat. Yes. Literally. No, no.

But it wasn't even meant to like tranquilize them. It was meant to put them down. Put them down. Like, doof. Okay, so you're telling me, hold on, I want to get this straight. Yes. So you're telling me kids are taking a drug that is meant to kill elephants. Yeah.

To put down elephants. It's a hundred times. more potent than fentanyl. And 10,000 times more potent than morphine. Correct. Wow. Correct. So when you talk about drugs where they say like a cop reaches in,

gets it on their skin and then potentially gets affected, which there was a lot of misinformation with that, whether or not that was actually true. However, with car fentanyl, if somebody potentially had an open wound on their finger and got some of that drug in that, in an open wound, yeah, they could potentially... But if you're breathing, if you're inhaling the dust, or, you know, that's got to be... Look, they've got... In Mexico, I was looking at this photo of this Mexican guy in a hazmat suit

with an oar, and he's... Sureness in a vat. Dude, I'm talking about with the mask... Right. But the mass that pumps in the oxygen, it's like, oh, if he breeds in those fumes, he's a dead man. He's a dead man, right? Okay. So it's just like, it's so bad. You can't even be around it. Yeah. I mean, it's all about cost cutting, really, right? If you try to grow opium or grow weed or grow cocoa for cocaine, right? That requires huge agricultural parcels. You can go in a room this size and produce enough fentanyl to serve L.A. County in a heartbeat. So fentanyl, car fentanyl problem. Pink cocaine got a lot of publicity lately. Before we get to the pink cocaine, I just want to touch on one thing that is kind of half topic, half off topic.

I just did an interview with USA Today before we did this. So we were talking about this being, this fentanyl crisis being a matter of national security. And so, you know, I've given this some thought and I've talked to some people who would know better. The reason I believe it's a national security issue is, yes, the gangs in China, okay, it's a money play for them, right? They're getting all these chemicals together. They're sending them to Mexico. Gangs in Mexico, again, it's a money play, right?

Goes over the border to gangs in the United States that distribute it on the streets, again, a money play, right? But then I was thinking to myself, China is the most surveilled, buttoned, buttoned place there is probably on earth. They know where every one of their citizens is at all times. They could put a stop to this.

They just chose to turn the other cheek, right? And I'm not thinking, oh, G goes in and he says, oh, this is what we're going to do. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it was happening due to this financial incentive, right, in this vicious cycle. And he just chose to look the other way because it was just a happy benefit to it all,

happy collateral benefit. That's why I'm so passionate about this as well, because it's not just taking our children and ruining families forever. it divides us, it's killing us. It's putting families in the worst trauma that they could ever have. And what do you mean, you're a doctor, but I'm just looking for your thoughts on that. Does that sound right to you? Yeah, I mean, I think that there's definitely a laxity in the exporting of the materials to

make the drug. That's obvious. And that's, you know, now a global issue because, I mean, people in Mexico, United States don't have a monopoly on wanting to make money off of illegally manufactured drugs. So this is a worldwide issue. Let me ask you a question. You know, we're in L.A. This is not Trump country in Los Angeles. It's not. don't you think that in this area, this is going to be a better deal for us with the new administration regarding drugs? I think there is the potential for that, yeah. With a crackdown on, you know, illegal importing, definitely putting the reins on that. I don't know what tariffs will do.

I do think that there's, with tightening up border, that there will be a barrier to, getting the supplies and the actual drugs into this country. They seem pretty, I don't know what's going to happen, but they seem pretty hell bent on really addressing this problem. So I was just talking to a reporter, and they wanted me to talk smack about Trump. They were clearly agenda-driven, right? And they said, well, the border,

is 80% of the drugs smuggled across the border are Americans. And I said, do you know why that is? And she said, no. And I said, because when somebody like me, who looks like me, goes across the border, they are less likely to get checked. That's why. But they were hand, they're just a mule. They were handed the package right before they got to the border.

And right when they passed the border, they handed off to another person, right, who distributes it along the street. And she wasn't hearing it. She just couldn't do it. And I thought to myself, you know, you have to look at something as the truth. Okay? You have to be real about it. nothing has been done over the last four years regarding the fat milk crisis. The Democrats don't even talk about it.

The Republicans talk about it. And I'm in the business of treating drug addicts and alcoholics. So for me, I'm grateful that this, I'm grateful for this new chapter because I want to see if it happens. Because here there's hope. Over the last four years, there hasn't been hope. And I was gone for most of it. I think you bring up great points.

I mean, believe me, without getting into my political preferences, I do. One of the first things I thought about with border security is if they can stop the flow, it's obviously going to help. Do I think it's going to eliminate? No. There's still going to be manufacturing. States. People are still going to be able to get supplies. The drive is too big. The payoff is too big.

I like the aspect of educating people on Narcan and making Narcan readily available. It'll help with fentanyl, for sure. It has. It helps with heroin. Helps with opioid overdoses. One drug it doesn't have, if we want to talk about another one, is xylazine. And xylazine is combined with fentanyl to create a drug called trank. you know, street name. And that's the drug when, especially when looking back to Philly. So Philadelphia is one of the first places where we saw this as an epidemic. Seattle, it's definitely migrated across now.

So the reason why they use xylasein, which is a drug that's used in veterinary medicine, so not for elephants, but used in veterinary medicine for anesthetic purposes for animals. cheap, easy to get. But what xylidine does is combined with fentanyl. So we talked about fentanyl being short onset, right? Short acting. So rapid onset, but the downside for addicts doesn't last very long. Am I going to do there?

So add some trank to it. And now you get this longer lasting effect that's similar to that fentanyl high, but different, more of a very, like, dissociative. zombie-like state, which is why they started calling it, the zombie drug. People walking around literally with like rigid arms and legs in a zombie-like walk. They look like they're rubbing their knuckles against the ground. Yeah. Awful.

I mean, some of the images from Portland are just so disturbed. Do you know what feels the best for these people when they're, when they've got a hole in their arm and you can see the bone? they literally take their shots and they do it on the flesh inside the hole because it feels better for some reason. I don't get it. Yeah, there's probably some anesthetic element as well as rapid onset to it. So that's a downside. Every good time seems to have a downside to it. So xylazine causes these skin lesions and it can cause what's called necrotizing fasciitis,

which is essentially like an overwhelming infection of the deep tissue. And people die of sepsis. So terrible drug, highly addicting, and the worst thing of all, getting back to Narcan. Can I tell you? I got to tell you something because it just came up for me and I got to get it out. Because this is probably one of the most traumatic times I've ever had owning my last place. You get this kid. And we've got them for six days.

and he's just detoxing, but he's been on the streets for years. A very wealthy family. And they couldn't find them. Cut to, they find him, and they put him in our place. We might have even found him, believe it or not. I don't remember.

He was with us for like six days. He wasn't getting better. He wasn't detoxing. So we sent him to the hospital and he was there for three weeks, no, two weeks. And he had sepsis because he had those holes in his arms and in his legs. And I went every single day. He was at UCLA right here on, what is it, Wilsham, 15th. every single day man

and one day I'm by his bedside and I'm hysterical and I'm like please don't die please don't die because no one's ever died in my place and I know the guy's not in my place but you know I just can't take it

and his mother walks in she says and I tell her and she gave me a And she said, oh, sweetheart, you didn't do anything wrong. You gave us another week or two with our child. Unreal. Dude, I don't remember 90% of this.

And when I do, it's just, thank God I've got brain damage and I can't remember anything. That's a lot. You watch one person succumb from this. and it'll haunt you for the rest of your life. And the thing is, here's the thing about fentanyl. You don't know someone who's died of fentanyl. You're not feeling anything. Life gets busy.

You're moving. You got shit to do. Whatever. The second you know someone who died of fentanyl, it gets real. And the second you know someone who died of fentanyl that you cared about, now you're on. Right. look, I've been doing this for 30 years. I've been a doctor for 30 years.

I've slick, and I'm not to sound cocky, I've saved thousands of people. You think I can remember one name for another? Here and there, I can remember some of them. I remember every patient who's died, every single one of them. That's the stuff that stays with you. So, yeah, so finishing up on xylazine, though, the downside is that Narcan doesn't work on it. So if someone comes in overdosed, we can do symptomatic treatment,

which just means IV fluids, life support when needed, intubate them, whatever, and hope they come down off of it. Hey, well, you do me a favor, okay? Because I just got a bunch of Narcan to drive around with. Yeah. Will you make certain that everyone a Carrera and one method knows how to use it? They all know how to use it.

Will you make certain that they have it? it on our cars. Yeah. And I want it in every car we own as well. Yeah. I'm sure we already do this stuff. But if we don't, just on it. Okay.

Yeah. Cool. So next, let's talk a little bit about pink cocaine. Got a lot of publicity lately. So pink cocaine, which essentially, I'm sure any user that hears thinks that sounds like a good time. Let's mix MDMA, meth, fentanyl. ketamine, maybe throw in a little cocaine in there, mix it up, put some pink food coloring in there, and then we'll have at it.

So, yeah, I mean, that's another one. Do you know what that reminds me of? The last time I was here back in, I guess this was going around, it was right around the butt chugging thing. Remember when people were shoving bottles of booze in their rectum and showing up the ER room, They'd bring those people to make. Campon soaked in vodka. Really?

That too. Yeah. Sororities. Really? Uh-huh. Well, I didn't know that. Well, you're the women's doctor. You would know that.

All right. But I remembered right around that time, these kids were doing what's called farm parties, P-H-A-R-M parties. What they would do is they would go into their grandmothers and their mother's medicine cabinets. And they'd all grab a handfuls of shit. They'd all go to the party.

And you know like how you put a candy in a bowl for off of ween, right? They'd throw all the pills. All the kids have it. And then they just walk around and they mix the bowl. And then they'd all take a handful of pills and see what happens. That is pink cocaine. Pretty much. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. So again, sounds fine, right? Except, no, it sounds like hell, actually. But you have, again, this therapeutic to lethal dose of fentanyl specifically. And that's the wild card in the equation. Right. Right. So it is good marketing. Very good marketing. I mean, it's not defund the police. Right. Okay. Right. I mean, this is good marketing. Pink cocaine. That sounds like a good time. the ingredients are horrific. Yeah. I mean, to kids or whoever's using, not kids, but kid like, I'm sure it sounds like a party. Mix all those things together. I'm 58. Sounds good to me. And I've been sober 21 years. Right. Pink cocaine sounds like, you know, a party drug. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Now, I want to move into this. I want to hear your take on this. Okay. When we were growing up, like, The big, like, fear of God putting to us was, if you smoke weed, that's your gateway.

You're going to start shooting heroin next week after that bong hit. What I maintain now, alcohol is the unsung, most popular, biggest gateway drug there is that nobody talks about. You know why? Well, not that. Show me an addict who says, I don't drink, but I use cocaine. I don't drink, but I have online gambled my life savings away. I don't drink, but I have sex with prostitutes seven days a week. I don't drink, but I snort cocaine.

It's just alcohol begins it. Okay. Well, the first thing we're going to do is we're going to leave the working girls out of it. Okay? I'm not going to bring them in there. It's like sesame straight, which one of these don't belong here. So we'll get there. So sex addiction, we're not doing it anyway.

Just let's get the, we don't need to do this today. Just get the working girls over there. That's stay tuned for next episode. That's right. Now, as far as the alcohol, the reason alcohol is a gateway drug is very simple. Alcohol affects your decision making. Right. Right.

So you get a little drunk. And if you didn't want to do any cocaine or heroin or pills or whatever, okay. I'm just going to drink tonight. The second you drank, like, you're like, oh, real cocaine is not a bad deal. Right. Okay.

So that's why that's a gateway drug. Now, I never believed that that marijuana was a gateway drug. Never believed it. Right. It's a gateway to eating too many chocolate chip cookies. Only if you start eating

because if you don't eat your first bite, you never get. the monies. Okay. That's your theory. I've heard that theory. That's not a theory. That's fact.

Listen, you don't exactly have a checkered pass, doctor, okay? This is my thing. Okay? But the reason I'm like, on the fence, believe it or not, is for something I heard the other day. And it made a thousand percent sense. and, you know, I've done drugs in 21 years. So sometimes you forget and it's good to be reminded, right? And this underground rapper, 2K, sweetest kid ever, says to me,

well, yeah, I was smoking pot, but, you know, I didn't get high enough. so you know you want a little more and yes that's true but only for about five percent of the population okay because only five percent of the population has that more more more more more thing right And so I was thinking about it. And I guess where I'm stuck is those 5% we're going to get, we're going to have an escalating usage of drugs or alcohol with whatever they were using. It didn't matter what it was. That it is weed. That's right.

So, you know, I'm 95% in the camp of it's not a gateway drug, but I'm 5% in the camp that it is a gateway drug for the people who, for lack of a better word, have the is of. I really appreciate you having me here. And we're going to keep fighting the fight. All right, buddy. Until next time, stay off drugs. kids. What do you want when you pointed at the camera? See you next Tuesday. Oh.

There you are. No, I am not. You're not saying see you next Tuesday? No, I'm not. I'm not that dumb. Oh, you're a doctor. You can't say see you next Tuesday. I really appreciate y'all having me today. And if ever anyone has any questions or know someone who needs help, please reach out to us. We are here 24-7. Thank you. See you next Tuesday. If you were a loved one is struggling. We have a number that you can call and we'll help you find the best treatment

that is right for you. Our company, One Call Placement, is dedicated to helping you and we'll find the best treatment that is right for you. So call now at 888-808-6159. Again, that's 888-808-6159. We're out of time.

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