What A Day - Are We At Risk Of Another Pandemic?

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

It’s a rough time for people who worry about infectious diseases. A new study shows bird flu is more widespread in U.S. cows than previously thought. Around 250 Americans have been infected with measles, including two people who died. And globally, the Democratic Republic of the Congo is struggling to contain a Mpox outbreak, Uganda is battling Ebola, Tanzania is fighting Marburg, and Lassa fever is spreading in East Africa. In the face of all that, the Trump administration has gutted funding for programs that help protect Americans from these types of diseases. Anne Rimoin, an epidemiology professor at UCLA and director of the Center for Global and Immigrant Health, talks about what’s worrying her.And in headlines: Senate Democrats said they’ll vote against a House bill to keep the government open past Friday, new government data showed egg prices hit another record last month, and President Donald Trump hosted the Irish Prime at the White House amid a growing trade war with the European Union.Show Notes:Subscribe to the What A Day Newsletter – https://tinyurl.com/3kk4nyz8Support victims of the fire – votesaveamerica.com/reliefWhat A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcastFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday

It's Thursday, March 13th. I'm Jane Coaston, and this is What It At, the show that is celebrating the return of March Madness by getting very stressed out about sports while definitely not watching sports at work, a thing you should also definitely not do. Nope, no sports at work. On today's show, Senate Democrats have their own solution to keep the government open. And President Donald Trump complains about former presidents' policies to the Prime Minister of Ireland. But let's start with bird flu, which has sickened dozens of people in the U.S. as it

continues to spread among animals. And measles, as new cases keep showing up. Fun. The Department of Agriculture says eggs are about double the price from January of 2024. An ongoing bird flu outbreak is blamed as the main culprit. This morning, new numbers show the measles virus spreading like wildfire. Texas, the center of the worst outbreak, now up to 223 cases, nearly double that from last month. In nearby New Mexico, 33 cases, more than triple the number from last week.

Earlier this week, a new study found that bird flu is way more prevalent in cows than we thought, increasing the likelihood that the virus could spread to people, and then from humans to humans. And measles continue to spread across a swath of the country, with new cases in Maryland and New Jersey. If only we had a super on the ball, very with it, Secretary of Health and Human Services to reassure the public about bird flu while encouraging vaccination against measles. The best way to stop the spread of the disease. Unfortunately, we have Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Here in conversation with Fox News' Sean Hannity at a steak and shake earlier this week. When you and I were kids, everybody got measles and the measles gave you protect, a lifetime protection against measles infection. The vaccine doesn't do that. Vaccine is effective for some people for life, but many people it wanes. Yeah. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, that's not true. Most people who have been vaccinated against measles are good to go for life.

Also, measles can kill and already has, with the first deaths in more than a decade taking place over the last two weeks. Don't get measles because you don't have to. So to learn more about measles and bird flu, and to talk about the Trump administration's ongoing efforts to break the global health system, we spoke with Professor Anne Ramoyne. She's an epidemiology professor at UCLA

and director of the Center for Global and Immigrant Health. Professor Ramoyne, welcome to Whataday! Nice to be here. Thanks for having me. Let's start with bird flu. A new report shows that the disease is more widespread in cows than previously thought. That doesn't sound good. What risk does that pose for humans? Well, you know, it's an important study because it really demonstrates that this is, as you said, much more widespread than we originally had anticipated. But the thing is, is the risk is if there are more infections in cattle, then people who interact with those cattle

are gonna be more likely to come in contact with the virus, potentially get sick. And that is where we see a big problem for avian influenza in general. Most of the cases of avian influenza to date have been in people who are in direct contact with animals, whether it's cows, whether it's birds, like the backyard flocks. But if somebody actually has seasonal influenza at the same time, that presents a really important opportunity for somebody to be infected with both avian influenza and a seasonal influenza. where the virus is able to swap genes and you may end up with some things that's more contagious, more easily spread. And that's what puts us at risk for a pandemic, which is what we really want to avoid.

That is terrifying. And we just passed the five-year anniversary of COVID-19 being declared a pandemic. We have not seen human-to-human transmission of bird flu, but what work is being done to prevent the disease from becoming an epidemic in the US, or worse, the next pandemic? Well, there are a lot of things that need to be done. The key is situational awareness. So if you know what's happening on the ground, then you can get in front of it.

And if you can get in front of it, that's your best chance of being able to avoid a future pandemic. Now, some of the other things that are being considered now are vaccinating some of the vaccinating chickens, which is a smart idea to be able to get in front of it, because if you limit the virus in the livestock that are able to spread it easily to people,

then you're gonna have less of an opportunity to spread to humans. So I think anything that we can do around the margins is important. And this falls under the category of what I always say, which is it is much easier to have less of an opportunity to spread to humans. So I think anything that we can do around the margins is important. And this falls under the category of what I always say, which is it is much easier to stay out of trouble than it is to get out of trouble. Never more true than when you're talking about pathogens.

Right. And regrettably, that does not seem to be the approach that the US is taking right now, because we're also seeing a measles outbreak in Texas and New Mexico that's spreading. What needs to happen to get us out of trouble with this outbreak? Well, probably under the category to get us out of trouble versus staying out of trouble. Listen, actually there's still a lot of staying out of trouble for many, many people. So measles is the most contagious virus that we know of. And that's also because it is a virus that is spread through the air. It's airborne and the virus particles can hang out for a very long time in a room after somebody who is infected has left. And complicating this is that people, before they develop this characteristic

rash, before they know they actually have measles, they're contagious for several days before that time. And you know we saw this kind of thing with COVID so the concept is similar but now we're talking about a virus that is more contagious than COVID. So what can you do to avoid it? Well you can get vaccinated. That is our number one opportunity for stopping spread of measles is to have a highly vaccinated population. And so when you when you talk about highly vaccinated populations well what does that mean? Well for measles is to have a highly vaccinated population. And so when you talk about highly vaccinated populations, well, what does that mean? Well, for measles, you need 95% of the population vaccinated to really stop it in its tracks,

to stop it from spreading further. So this vaccine is up to 97% effective in preventing infection, and that's really, really critical here. And so when you have pockets of the population preventing infection, and that's really, really critical here. And so when you have pockets of the population that are unvaccinated or under-vaccinated, that just gives it this wide runway to spread. And now, unfortunately, we've seen the consequences.

The vast majority of people will survive measles infection, but people who are very young, people that are immunocompromised, you know, it can be deadly and we've already seen that happen. Yeah and this is all the more worrying because since the pandemic fewer children who are especially vulnerable have been getting their routine vaccinations. Parents are opting out. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been, how to put this, less than emphatic when telling people to get vaccinated. How does that make this measles outbreak all the more dangerous? Well, it makes it very dangerous because, you know, you need to have

people giving good information and giving information that is strongly worded and to have any kind of doubt sewn in the system, it does make it complicated. I think that the more people that really do recommend vaccination and explain why vaccination is so important, the better off we are. As a person who cares about this issue, should I be getting a booster for measles? Who should be getting boosters and who should not be? Well, people who should get a booster if they have not had one already are people that were born between 1957 and 1968.

At that point, individuals who were getting a measles vaccine, it just wasn't as effective. And then people who were born between 1968 and 1989, the recommendation was just to get one dose. And now we have, we know that a recommendation is to get two doses for optimal protection. So those are the current recommendations. And what I would suggest to anybody who is, you know, wondering where do I fall? Is it something I should do? They should talk to their doctor. So those are the current recommendations. And what I would suggest to anybody who is wondering, where do I fall? Is it something I should do? They should talk to their doctor.

I want to broaden this conversation out a little bit because I want to talk about public health more broadly. Your background is in emerging infectious diseases like Ebola and MPOX. What are you hearing from the people you work with about how the federal government's cuts to USAID and the CDC and the attempts to cut federal grant funding to universities are impacting their work in this field because you're kind of in the thick of it from both ends.

Well, global health funding has always been meager at best, in particular for emerging infectious diseases. So it's putting tension on fabric that's already stretched very thin. In general, our national security is linked to global security, and that's very true when it comes to global health. And with fewer programs in place, we have less situational awareness, and situational awareness is key. What we've learned from the pandemic is that rapid action matters. I think there have been certainly effects in places like DRC when it comes to M-pox response. I understand too in places like Uganda that Ebola response,

where we have an active outbreak, is certainly affected. One of the things I think about is I think in a place like DRC, the Kinshasa School of Public Health, which trains local health professionals, you know that school is the centerpiece of training for the country and I know that they are heavily funded by USAID and so if you can't train local people on the ground to be able to do this kind of work, you know we really are going to lose capacity and it means that there is going to be more opportunities for viruses and You know other things to happen on the ground that we're not aware of and we're not gonna be able to get in front of it For more than two decades you've been working in the Democratic Republic of Congo and you founded a research and training center there

Has that been hit by funding cuts? Well, you know, I mean, I think everything is affected in one way or the other. The work that we do with the Kinshasa School of Public Health and the National Laboratory at present is still ongoing. But, you know, we are all, you know, waiting to see how things go and, you know, what is going to be sustainable, what isn't. You've mentioned this a little bit, but there are a number of outbreaks happening around the world right now. Bird flu and measles here. You mentioned an M pox outbreak in the DRC and an Ebola outbreak in Uganda.

There is Marburg in Tanzania, Lassa fever in East Africa. It's a lot. What's worrying you most right now? I worry most about the overall system of disease surveillance and the ability for us locally, nationally, and globally to be able to react in a coordinated manner and in an effective and efficient manner, you know, should we see another pandemic. That's my biggest concern of all is how this kind of global coordination and collaboration is going to continue when funding is stretched thinner than it already is for these kinds of things. Professor Ramon, thank you so much for joining me today. It's my pleasure. That was my conversation with Professor Anne Ramoyne, an epidemiology professor at UCLA

and director of the Center for Global and Immigrant Health. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Zbiotics Pre-Alcohol. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I do not bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day.

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Republicans do not have the votes in the Senate to invoke cloture on the House CR. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said Democrats will not vote for a House approved spending bill to avert a government shutdown on Friday. Dems are leveraging their power in the chamber to block the bill, knowing that it likely needs the support of at least eight Democrats to pass. Schumer announced his party's position on the floor Wednesday. Funding the government should be a bipartisan effort, but Republicans chose a partisan path drafting their continuing resolution without any input,

any input from congressional Democrats. House Republicans passed the legislation Tuesday, sending it to the Senate for a vote. The bill, which boosts funding for defense while cutting billions in other spending, would fund the government through September. But it grants no concessions to Democrats, who want to make sure Trump and billionaire Elon Musk don't keep gutting funding for programs that Congress approved. Instead, Senate Democrats want Congress to pass a stopgap measure to keep the government open for 30 days, while both parties negotiate a long-term deal. Look, the EU was set up in order to take advantage of the United States.

Including Ireland? Is Ireland taking advantage of the U.S.? Of course they are. I can't, you know, I have great respect for Ireland and what they did. And they should have done just what they did, but the United States shouldn't have let it happen. We had stupid leaders. We had leaders that didn't have a clue. Or let's say they weren't business people, but they didn't have a clue what was happening.

What? President Trump was his usual self while hosting Irish prime minister Mahal Martin at the White House Wednesday. The annual meeting comes ahead of St. Patrick's Day. Lucky yes. Trump welcomed Martin to the Oval Office with this backhanded compliment.

I give, look, the Irish are smart. They are smart people. And you took our pharmaceutical companies and other companies, but, you know, through taxation and proper taxation. More than 90 pharmaceutical companies operate in Ireland and not just American companies. According to a leading non-partisan tax policy nonprofit, Ireland has a low corporate tax

rate of 12.5%. U.S. companies like Pfizer, Johnson & Johnson, and Bristol-Meyer Squibb operate or have locations in Ireland. And Trump sure as hell isn't happy about it. When the pharmaceutical companies started to go to Ireland, I would have said, that's OK if you want to go to Ireland. I think it's great. But if you want to sell anything into the United States, I'm going to put a 200 percent tariff on you.

So you're never going to be able to sell anything into the United States. You know what they would have done? They would have stayed here. 200 percent tariffs? According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the U.S. imported more than 13 billion dollars in goods from Ireland in January. The U.S. exported just about one billion dollars in products to the country. So is that why he's so mad?

I don't know if you saw a little thing like the cost of eggs, little to you, but big to people out there, down almost 30 percent in the last few days we got it down. OK, well let's talk about those eggs you clearly haven't purchased since like 1987, President Trump. The government's latest consumer price index data released Wednesday shows the cost of a dozen eggs increased more than 10% last month. The average price now sits at just shy of $6, topping January's record of close to $5.

The high prices are primarily driven by the ongoing bird flu outbreak, which we talked about earlier in the show. The USDA said last week that some reprieve could be on the way because egg shortages were starting to ease up, in part because people stopped buying them. In good news, if there is any, the same government data did show that overall inflation cooled a bit last month. But as Trump continues to implement, and then back off, then re-up his quote, beautiful tariffs, economists worry his plans could upend efforts to rein in inflation long term. Is that stopping the president?

No. On Wednesday, Trump increased tariffs on all steel and aluminum imports to 25%. The European Union and Canada quickly retaliated with their own tariffs on US goods like bourbon and motorcycles. After months of hinting at a run, former California representative Katie Porter

has officially entered the race for governor. Porter made the announcement Tuesday morning. What California needs now is a little bit of hope and a whole lot of grit. Fresh blood and new ideas and leaders with the backbone to fight for what's right. That's why I'm running for governor. what's right. That's why I'm running for governor. Pod Save America's John Lovett sat down with Congresswoman Porter to talk about why she is running in what is already a crowded field, her thoughts on how Democrats are handling Trump, and what she'll do if former Vice President Kamala Harris decides to enter the race later this year. I'm not waiting around and I don't think voters are waiting around. They want to know how we're going to lead. They want to make

plans for what we're going to do with regard to Trump. And so I think there's a hunger for people to lead in this moment and I'm stepping up. You can listen to Lovett's interview with Representative Katie Porter Friday on Pod Save America. And that's the news. One more thing. I'm not sure if you've noticed lately, but the economy is having a not very good time right now. There's been a major reaction to the on-again off-again tariffs against some of our closest trading partners that have made the

stock market and investors extremely anxious. And coupled with less than great hiring data, there are real concerns about the potential for a recession. But in response to this, the very real worries of many people about the economy, their investments, their jobs, and their futures, the response from a section of the American right has been, suck it up bitches. Here's Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville on Fox News Wednesday. No pain, no gain. That's what we used to tell our football players.

There's going to be some pain with tariffs. I'd like to note here that Tommy Tuberville's last season as a college football coach ended with a four and eight record, which sounds like pain enough for Cincinnati fans. But, you've gotta suffer just wasn't a good enough message for some on the right. In fact, some of President Trump's biggest fans, like frequent Fox News commentator Bhatia Angar Sargan, think that actually you should be grateful for Donald Trump and Elon Musk doing their best to wreck both the federal government and the economy for reasons. Because we're building a new economy made out of love. Here she is on Fox News Sunday. I cannot get over the chutzpah of these business leaders

sitting there whining about their quarterly reports while President Trump teaches them how to build an economy based on love of country and love of your neighbor. We should be listening and watching and saying thank you rather than whining and moaning. Yeah. Thank you. And Lara Trump, the president's daughter-in-law, said on Fox News on Monday that Americans should do way more than say thank you. Like, way more. People ought to be kissing the feet of Elon Musk and Donald Trump for being the two people

to actually do this. Ew. This is bonkers. Yes, very gross, cultish and baffling, but also bonkers. See, before about, oh, a month ago, President Donald Trump loved the stock market. He used to talk about it all the time.

And even in October 2024, he was claiming that any improvement in the economy under President Joe Biden must actually be about Trump. Some of the best people on Wall Street are saying the economy is only good because they think I don't want to say this because other people have said it. That's not me saying it, but they think Trump is going to get elected. That's the only reason our economy is. That's the only reason the stock market is up. But now, as the stock market is definitely not up, suddenly the stock market just doesn't matter anymore.

Now, the new meme on the MAGA right is that plunging America into economic uncertainty is cool and good, as are plunging markets. A Newsmax host tweeted Monday, quote, "'The Dow is plunging. This is happening because we have a president with the balls to undo a globalist economic agenda that's decimated American wages and quality of life. This is the pain that comes from real change.'"

No, no it isn't. This is pain for absolutely no reason. This is pain caused by a president turning tariffs on and off and on and off, with his reasoning varying from something something fentanyl to Canada should be a state, which would be reason enough for me to be slowly losing my mind. But this? A catawalling bunch of Trump family members and MAGA influencers trying to tell Americans that actually their shrinking retirement accounts are good because we're going to rebuild factories that the MAGA influencers would rather go

to a Joe Biden we miss you rally than work in? That might be what finally does it. Before we go, global headlines are moving fast. Russia and Ukraine may agree to a 30-day ceasefire. Canada has a new prime minister stepping into a full-blown trade war with the U.S. and USAID is on its last breath. On this week's episode of Pod Save the World, Tommy and Ben break it all down. Plus, the Trump administration's direct talks with Hamas, the ADL's shocking stance on

campus protests, and the latest violence in Syria. To catch up on the latest foreign policy news, listen to Pod Save the World Now, wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, go watch the documentary No Other Land even if the mayor of Miami Beach tells you not to, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how the mayor of Miami Beach, Stephen Miner, is trying to terminate the lease of a movie theater because it is screening an Oscar-winning documentary that he doesn't like, like me, What a Day is also a nightly

newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Jane Coaston and let people watch documentaries. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily For. Our producer is Michelle Alloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare.

Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gileard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. ["The Writers Guild of America East"] you