What A Day - Can Trump Just Pause Federal Funds Like This?

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

A federal judge late Tuesday paused a sweeping order from the Trump administration to temporarily freeze trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans. It was welcome news amid a day of total chaos that left everyone from lawmakers to hospital administrators to preschool teachers scrambling to figure out what the hell the administration’s Monday night directive meant for them. White House officials spent the day insisting the funding pause was legal, even as they were forced to clarify its scope throughout the day. Casey Burgat, director of the Legislative Affairs program at George Washington University’s Graduate School of Political Management, explains why the administration faces an uphill legal battle defending it's order.And in headlines: Newly confirmed Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem wants everyone to know she’s a ‘Hot Mama,’ the Trump administration offers deferred resignation to government employees, and President Donald Trump signed another executive order targeting trans people.Show Notes:Check out Casey's podcast Mastering The Room – https://tinyurl.com/34rsv7xySupport victims of the fire – votesaveamerica.com/reliefSubscribe to the What A Day Newsletter – https://tinyurl.com/3kk4nyz8What A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcastFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday

It's Wednesday, January 29th. I'm Jane Coaston, and this is What a Day. The show's staring at the new Axios poll saying that Republicans now trust Trump as much as their own doctor when it comes to making personal health decisions. So we can assume their doctors are not very good at doctoring. On today's show, newly confirmed Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem wants everyone to know she's a hot mama. And President Donald Trump signs another executive order targeting trans people. But first, Tuesday afternoon, a federal judge paused a sweeping order from the Trump administration to temporarily freeze trillions of dollars in federal grants and loans.

It was welcome news, after a day where the nation devolved into abject chaos as everyone from lawmakers to hospital administrators to preschool teachers tried to figure out what in the hell the administration meant with its Monday night order. Medicaid reimbursement portals went down in every state. It jeopardized federal payments to state healthcare programs that cover treatments for millions of low-income Americans. The same thing happened with Head Start,

the federal early childhood education program for low-income kids. Providers said they lost access to the federal government's payment website, potentially upending things like payroll. Nonprofits, universities, medical research centers, housing assistance programs, all were left scrambling in the wake of the funding freeze. upending things like payroll. Nonprofits, universities, medical research centers, housing assistance programs, all were left scrambling in the wake of the funding freeze. The mess

and panic finally gave Democrats something resembling a spine to forcefully stand up to Trump. Illinois Governor J.B. Pritzker said the administration's actions were illegal. Donald Trump's administration is lying to you. The White House's attempt to walk back what they did today does not match what we saw on the ground. More than 20 state attorneys general have sued. So have some businesses and nonprofits. But all the while, the White House defended the funding freeze

as like no big deal, even as it spent the day trying to clarify the scope of the order. In her first press briefing, White House press secretary Caroline Levitt said that unilaterally pausing funds appropriated by Congress and that were signed into law is all very legal. This is certainly within the confines of the law. So White House Counsel's Office believes that this is within the president's power to do it, and therefore he's doing it. Oh, they believe that. Do they? Guys, it's only been like a week, and this shit is straight

up bonkers. The original memo sent out Monday said this was about rooting out quote, Marxist equity, transgenderism and Green New Deal social engineering policies. Sure. But to try and make a little sense out of it, I spoke to Casey Burgett. He's the director of the Legislative Affairs Program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management. And he hosts GW's political podcast, Mastering the Room. Casey, welcome back to What a Day. Thank you, thank you.

So can the president just do this? Like, it's been a while since I took civics, but I was pretty sure Congress controlled the purse strings. Yeah, this is the fundamental question, right? And no, I mean, constitutionally, they can't. But there are a lot of things that are written in the Constitution that ultimately come down to people checking that power, right? We say we live in a system of checks and balances, but they don't exist automatically where the president overreaches and all of a sudden some buzzer sounds and he can't do that anymore. It relies on the

courts. It relies on especially Congress to protect their constitutional powers, and the power of the purse is at the top of that list that they need to protect. At this point, and we're talking on Tuesday afternoon, the legal sticking point over Trump's OMB order seems to be whether it's temporary, that Trump may be within his legal right to pause federal funding for a short amount of time,

but not long term. He can't just cancel it. Is that correct? That's my understanding of it, that the cancellation, I mean the power of the purse. We had Nixon in the 70s impound funds, which is just deciding not to spend money on something that Congress said that the president should. And Congress wrote a law in response to that impoundment saying that you can't do that. It is explicitly in statute that you can't impound money. So the length of time, yes, that may be a sticking point. At some point though, this is going to come down to individual judges deciding individual cases. And that's just bad as these

programs are supposed to carry out. These affect everyday people in the interim. And that's a tough position for them to be in. Let's back up for a second though. How does this grant money get appropriated in the first place? It's a long, long, long process within Congress. This is what we see them fighting over every single shutdown deadline, where Congress goes back and forth and decides what amount to spend on what purposes. And most of the times they're really specific

and these programs get this money for this long and it comes through appropriations bills, which are signed law not only by members of Congress but also the President of the United States. They're laws of how money should be spent. This is the definition, the undergirding of the power of the purse that you've heard about since you were about seven years old. So this is basically Trump taking away Congress's job and it's been weird to me and I'm curious to see what you think. A lot

of Republicans in Congress seem mostly okay with this. It's not only taking away Congress's job, it's taking away Congress's decisions they have already made, right? Like these are appropriations bills that have been debated, negotiated, passed. This money has been appropriated. The law has been signed. And now they are reinterpreting it and changing it through executive action. And so this will require congressional response if they don't want this to go through. They should protect the constitutional power of the person knowing that there's Republican majorities in both chambers.

That means congressional Republicans. And this is where I get most scared is that we see statements from the current chairman of the Appropriations Committee, the guy who's actually in charge of writing these bills, saying, yeah, this is all normal. This isn't even called these not laws. Make no mistake, they have been passed by both chambers. They've been signed by the president the same way every single law has been.

So this reinterpretation is taking advantage of people not really, I guess, knowing how the sausage is actually made, but they know better. They know better. And these are the last people that should be giving up this power because they're the ones that can use it to their own ends within Congress. It's just full capitulation at its worst.

And I would be saying that if they were a Democrat on Democrat, too. Now, the White House says the freeze is meant to weed out spending on things like DEI or gender stuff they don't like or the Green New Deal, which is not a law that exists, but it's all shorthand for programs that conflict with Trump's policy priorities. It does not seem like it would be that easy to single out funding for these programs, is it?

Like we're talking about trillions of dollars of spending here. Correct, no, I mean, this is going into a huge field with a fine tooth comb and saying, I want to pick this and not that. There are ways that you can do that, but this ain't the way to do it. This ain't it. This is like, break everything and then we'll put it back together in the way that we want. And that is just the ultimate degree of abstractionist governing where you're not

thinking about programs and people. This is Elon has his hands written all over. Exactly. That's what I was just thinking. Yeah, this is the Elon way of doing it, that we will break it and then build it in our own mold. But man, the government doesn't work like that. That is just a really reductive and harmful way to make any budget cuts or budgetary changes. You mentioned President Richard Nixon

and the Empowerment Control Act, which is supposed to prevent a president from doing all of this But Trump and his pick to run the Office of Management and Budget Russell vote have argued that's unconstitutional What is their argument that the president as the executor of the executive branch the leader of the executive branch? Can have some role to play that Congress can't dictate how the administration of the laws actually are carried out. So Congress writes the laws, they fund the laws, it's up to the president to actually administer them. But man, that is a really, that's a theory that's going to get challenged. That is a theory without a ton of support. The

Constitution is there and pretty unequivocal that the Congress has the power of the purse and that the funds, the administration of those laws, including appropriations laws, should be carried out according to what's called legislative intent, Congress's will. Already there's talk of this issue ending up before the Supreme Court because we haven't had more fun or we haven't had enough fun. Let's go back. Yeah, I think that would be great. I think what we all want is for the Supreme Court to decide literally everything we do

for the rest of our lives. And this court has been very deferential to the scope of the president's executive authority. I mean, not even a year ago, the justices said that presidents are immune from prosecution for official acts. So should the court take this up? How do you see this playing out? I don't know. These are one of the things you wake up in the morning and you say, what are we talking

about anymore? Like, what are we doing here? These are things that we've already debated. We literally passed a law 50 years ago to decide exactly this. And now, just like Roe v. Wade, even if you think it's settled, couple generations later,

you're having the same fights over and over. And it's really frustrating for a lot of folks who there's a lot of good that we can do or a lot of things that we need to do. And we shouldn't be litigating this type of stuff. There are ways to do this constitutionally and legally. This ain't that. Now, executive orders aren't a new thing. Like I am old enough to remember when people got mad at the Obama administration for ruling with quote a, you know, a pen and a phone. Obama and Biden use them a lot to get things done.

And it just feels like in the sheer scope of Trump's orders and the speed and the parts of the federal government that are being targeted, a lot of people's lives are being upended by these executive orders, executive orders that seem, as you mentioned, just based on breaking things and figuring it out later. And this kind of unilateral action feels pretty antithetical to the founding principles of our democracy. So as someone who studies government, how are you thinking about this moment? I don't like it. Right?

Like this is just, you can even love, and I say this to a lot of my friends on the other side, or like you can love what he's doing, but the process often matters more. And so what you're effectively saying is you're signing up for someone who you fundamentally disagreeing with doing this back to you on things you disagree with, and they will go farther. That's what we know about presidential power grabs. It's always going to get more and more unless they are just absolutely checked by the constitutional players of the game, namely Congress and the courts. Casey, thank you so much for joining us.

Anytime. That was my conversation with Casey Burgett, Director of the Legislative Affairs Program at GW's Graduate School of Political Management. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What a day is brought to you by Lumen. Did you know that 80% of resolutions fail by February? You can beat the odds with Lumen and improve your health.

Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath and on the app it lets you know if you're burning fat or carbs and gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, your workouts, your sleep, even your stress management. All you have to do is breathe into your Lumen first thing in the morning and you'll know what's going on with your metabolism whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs. Then Lumen gives you a personalized nutrition plan for that day based on your measurements. You can also breathe into it before and

after workouts and meals so you know exactly what's going on in your body in real time. And Lumen will give you tips to keep you on top of your health game. Your metabolism is your body's engine. It's how your body turns the food you eat into fuel that keeps you going. And it's at the center of everything your body does so optimal metabolic health translates to a bunch of benefits, like easier weight management, improved energy levels, better sleep, and we love sleep here. So, if you want to keep the weight off for good this year, go to lumen.me slash wad to get 20% off your lumen. That is l-u-m-e-n dot me slash wad for 20% off your purchase.

Thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode. Here's what else we're following today. Head of Lines. Your mission is big and it's vast. And I know that you approach it with the seriousness of which the day and age that we live in requires. Newly sworn in Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem addressed her new staff Tuesday afternoon.

Her serious approach included walking on to Trace Adkins' song Hot Mama, which features this also very serious lyric. Getting them old jeans, you want that body back you had at 17, baby don't get down, don't you worry about a thing, cuz the way you fill them out, hey, that's alright with me. Earlier in the day, she donned an ICE vest to join federal agents in New York City for an immigration enforcement operation. You're in New York City this morning. We are getting the dirtbags off these streets.

Noem posted on Twitter, quote, We are doing this thing right. Doing exactly what President Donald Trump promised the American people, making our streets safe. A raid in the Bronx resulted in arrests of immigrants, including a man accused of kidnapping. Authorities said the man was also one of several alleged Venezuelan gang members caught on video last year taking over an apartment building in Aurora, Colorado. New York City Mayor Eric Adams and Governor Kathy Hochul, both Democrats, backed the immigration

operation in the country's largest sanctuary city. Adams said the city, quote, will not hesitate to partner with federal authorities to bring violent criminals to justice, just as we have done for years. Over in Chicago, the response to federal enforcement operations was quite different. Mayor Brandon Johnson said at a news conference Tuesday, quote, this desire to popularize fear is unconscionable and abhorrent. We stand together firmly in our welcoming city status, as well as our commitment to protecting

all residents of the city of Chicago, no matter where you come from or how long you've lived here. ICE hasn't offered much information about the operation in Chicago. Officials there estimate roughly 100 people were taken into custody. The Trump administration is offering deferred resignations to any government employee who doesn't want to return to the office. The email sent to federal workers says,

If you choose to remain in your current position, we thank you for your renewed focus on serving the American people. For folks who decide to leave, the email promises you will be provided with a dignified, fair departure. Sure. One section of the email lays out the Trump administration's standards of conduct, which calls for employees to be loyal and trustworthy. Those who engage in misconduct could be investigated in discipline.

Those who engage in misconduct could be investigated in discipline. President Trump signed an executive order on Tuesday that would cut federal funding for gender-affirming care for trans youth. This basically means that Medicaid and other federally-backed insurance companies can no longer cover transition-related treatments like hormone therapy, puberty blockers, and gender-affirming surgeries. The rule would apply to anyone under the age of 19 seeking gender-affirming care. So not just trans kids, adults too. America, the country where you can be old enough

to vote and die in a war, but too young to make decisions about your own fucking body. Trump put out a statement on Tuesday deeming these treatments, quote, destructive and life-altering, even though they're endorsed as perfectly safe by every single major medical organization. This is just the latest attack on trans rights by the Trump administration.

On Monday, Trump signed an executive order to ban trans folks from serving in the military. On his first day in office, he signed another that limits the definition of sex to male or female. After three terms in the House and two terms in the Senate, I believe now it's time for me to write a few more paragraphs in my current chapter and then turn over the reins. I will therefore not seek reelection in 2026. On Tuesday, Michigan Democratic Senator Gary Peters announced he won't pursue a third term in the Senate.

Although I will not be on the ballot next year, I will not just walk away. I plan to actively campaign to ensure we elect a dynamic Democratic candidate to be the next US Senator from Michigan. His surprise announcement leaves Democrats in Michigan to defend a critical Senate seat without the advantage of an incumbent. Those reportedly interested in the seat include former Biden Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Those reportedly interested in the seat include former Biden Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. From President Trump directly, an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons. In a, how should we put this,

wide-ranging press conference on Tuesday, newly-minted White House press secretary, Caroline Levitt, told reporters that Americans have nothing to fear. The New Jersey drones weren't here to harm us. This was not the enemy. President Trump has been fixated on these drones for quite some time.

Remember, last December, Trump suggested the Biden administration knew more about the situation than it was sharing in his typical fear-mongering, chum-throwing way. The government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason, they don't want to comment. Then White House National Security Communications Advisor John Kirby said they were lawful and legal aviation activities. Here's what he said on the Today Show. We know that there's no national security threat. We know there's no public safety threat. So apparently Trump needed to redo the

Biden administration's work to let the public know again that the drones in New Jersey didn't pose a threat. And now that Trump's president, I don't know about you, but this sounds like the type of government redundancy Elon Musk and Doge are supposed to clean up. And that's the news. One more thing. Today starts the confirmation hearings for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for Secretary of Health and Human Services. He has a lot of support from across the political spectrum, from people genuinely worried about plastics in our food supply to Instagram grifters trying to scare people about the dangerous dihydrogen monoxide poses to kids.

That's water, folks. Water. But he's got some major opposition. From his cousin, Caroline Kennedy, former U.S. ambassador to Australia, I've known Bobby my whole life. We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets because Bobby himself is a predator and particularly from conservatives the Wall Street Journal editorial board argued that he's a danger to public health writing quote

Senators would be wise to believe RFK jr. career spreading falsehoods rather than his confirmation conversions. And the New York Post editorial board, which has never met a Democrat it didn't hate, quoted Trump himself when he said in April 2024 that RFK Jr. is a radical left lunatic before adding, quote, We sincerely believe Trump would live to regret as Secretary Kennedy. We know the United States would. Now, I've seen some people argue online that all of this criticism from Republicans is a good thing. Because obviously, Republicans like bad things and hate good things, ergo, RFK Jr. must be

good. He hates oil companies. He believes in climate change. He wants to get pollutants out of our water. But this is oppositional defiance disorder masquerading as politics. And the fact that Trump nominated him in the first place should tell us something. Because yes, actually, R.F.K. Jr. is absolutely bananas. Like, beyond typical anti-vaxxer level bananas, which is a level of bananas I really didn't think I need to worry about in my actual

life. In 2021, he said during an appearance for his group, Children's Health Defense, quote, Now, we know that, you know, we should not be giving black people the same vaccine schedule that's given to whites because their immune system is better than ours. Which is huge fucking news to me, a black person. Back when he was running for president in 2023, he told the New York Post, quote, COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese. It wasn't and they weren't. But like I said, bananas. Now,

you could believe that Donald Trump has brought RFK Jr. in to be part of a team of rivals, where RFK Jr. could speak truth to power and get microplastics out of our kids' cereals or something. Or, you could remember that last week the Trump administration reversed plans to stop so-called forever chemicals Which have been linked to terrible health effects from being discharged into wastewater And you could remember that during Trump's first term people who challenged him tended not to last long in his administration Because the problem with RFK jr. Isn't just that he's completely bananas and would run roughshod over public health in this country. It's that he'd be working with an administration that would ensure that any good, any actual good thing he wanted to do, was impossible.

Before we go, this week on Keep It, the nominations are in and so are the takes. Tune in as Ira and Lewis break down the biggest surprises from the Oscar nods. And don't miss their chat with the one and only Christina Milian. Take a break from freaking out about the news to freak out about the challengers' score getting snubbed. Catch the episode now on the Keep It feed. That's all for today. If you liked the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, send your favorite federal

employee a care package, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how demonizing working for the federal government and trying to strip such employees of their rights just guarantees shitty government, like me, what a day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Jane Coaston, and breaking stuff is not governance. What A Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor.

Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Ford. Our producer is Michelle Eloy. We had production help today from Johanna Kees, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gillyard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.