What A Day - Caught In The Espionage Act

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

The Justice Department is investigating former President Donald Trump for potentially violating three federal laws related to handling government documents, including the Espionage Act. That's according to the unsealed search warrant executed at his Mar-a-Lago residence last week. Leah Litman, co-host of Crooked’s Strict Scrutiny, joins us to discuss Trump's mounting legal problems.Meanwhile, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security issued a joint bulletin warning of an uptick in violent threats against federal law enforcement since the search at Mar-a-Lago.And in headlines: author Salman Rushdie is recovering after he was stabbed on-stage at an event in New York state, a UCLA study warns that California is due for a "megaflood," and New York City health officials are sounding the alarm over polio.Show Notes:Vote Save America: Fuck Bans Action Plan – https://votesaveamerica.com/roe/Crooked Coffee is officially here. Our first blend, What A Morning, is available in medium and dark roasts. Wake up with your own bag at crooked.com/coffeeFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/whataday/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday

it's monday august 15th i'm priyanka arabindi and i'm josie duffy rice and this is what a day the podcast that's waiting back into the private jet discourse to say that we would support private trains you know because it went so well for us the first time yeah we felt like we should be right back here right as two people who don't actually know anything about... How private trains work, what a private train is. Yeah. On today's show, author Salman Rushdie is on the mend after he was stabbed multiple times on Friday. Plus, scientists say climate change will force Californians to get ready for more disasters other than the big one. You know, wasn't ready for that one.

That's an earthquake? Yes, I think so. I think so. Okay. I don't need more to prep for personally. Don't need more. No. But first, don't worry.

We have plenty before we get to that. We're going to talk about all of the legal problems that face Donald Trump. Actually, I don't know about all of them because they're quite a lot, but we're going to get to at least a few. Let's start with a recap on the past couple days though because a lot has happened. So on Friday, a federal judge in Florida officially unsealed the search warrant that allowed the FBI to take a little field trip to Mar-a-Lago last week. Now we didn't get to see details of what was taken, but according to records that were made public, we do know that

the FBI took 11 sets of classified documents, some of which were designated top secret. So that sounds very serious. But Josie, what are some of the major takeaways that we do know about this? It's not good. The FBI just doesn't show up to your house for good news. Don't search your stuff if there is nothing going on. So it's not great for the former president. The unsealed search warrant revealed that the FBI is currently investigating Trump for, among other things, a potential violation of the Espionage Act. You may be asking yourself what the Espionage Act is, despite its like very sexy name suggesting it all has to do with spies like James Bond. The FBI's warrant deals with a very specific part called Section 793, and that one criminalizes,

quote, gathering, transmitting or losing defense information. So it's not as serious as the next section, 784, which is actually about like giving that information to a foreign government. Sure. But it's still like not great since. Definitely not. Yeah. No, I don't suggest it. Since mishandled information could still be used to harm the United States if it ends up in the wrong hands.

No, totally. And it's like floating around in the middle of like a hotel in Florida. I would say by definition, Trump's hands are the wrong hands. Absolutely the worst hands to be in. Right. Yikes. So what are Trump and his friends saying in response to these findings? They've been like really apologetic. They've said they messed up and they're sorry. No, just kidding. That would never happen, right? It's like immediate, immediate, like absolutely. That could never happen. Please. Absolutely not even a chance.

The most plausible explanation? No. No, not a chance. They've been saying everything, Priyanka. Their defenses keep changing, obviously. Great. On Saturday, Republican Senator Rand Paul tweeted that the Espionage Act should be repealed because it is a, quote, egregious affront to the First Amendment.

Now, I would be more willing to entertain this argument if Rand Paul had stood up for the First Amendment when it wasn't convenient for him, like when they were banning books. Meanwhile, Trump released a statement saying that he declassified all the documents he took with him before leaving office. We'll get to why that is just like a crazy thing to say in just a moment. But here's what Democratic representative and head of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff, said when asked about this on CBS News yesterday.

First of all, a former president has no declassification authority. Right. And the idea that 18 months after the fact, Donald Trump could simply announce, well, I'm, you know, retroactively declassifying or whatever I took home had the effect of declassifying them is absurd. You know, never, ever say that man is not bold. He is bold. He's like, I'm not president anymore. But like, I said it was cool. It's fine. Because I said it was okay when I was president or I was so it's fine. I don't really understand what that's the equivalent

of us saying it's okay. He is a private citizen. That is the equivalent of us declassifying a document, which I wouldn't try to do because. No, certainly that would never cross anyone's mind except his. So this is already, you know, a very crazy situation that Trump as a private citizen had his hands on material that he really shouldn't have. But another scary reality is the rise in violent threats against the FBI and even calls for a civil war amongst Trump supporters throughout the country. There is a lot of this happening online. Yeah. And I just want to say, as a rule, I'm always skeptical when law enforcement claims like increased threats against them, increased violence.

Because a lot of times it's sort of used as a way to like silence protesters, silence backlash, right? But this time it actually seems to be pretty real that we're seeing some very scary threats to these agencies in ways that are not like protesting, in ways that are like murder. Like showing up with weapons and things like that. It's very terrifying. Exactly. So as we mentioned last week, a man fired a nail gun into an FBI field office in Cincinnati. If that seems random, it's because he saw online that a nail gun will break the ballistic resistant glass. And so

it was like actually very intentional he did it that way. Since then, a lot more incidents have occurred. And on Friday, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security issued a joint bulletin warning of a spike in threats against federal law enforcement since the Mar-a-Lago search. You know, all for pushing back on the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, two agencies that are a broken clock. They might have gotten it right this time, but they usually do not get it right. But it's actually really scary to see like how many people are willing to just go to war for Donald Trump. No, definitely.

And I mean, you and I might not be seeing this online. Everyone listening to this might not be seeing this online, but there are corners of the internet that we are definitely not on that are very much talking about this in terms that are terrifying and violent and have spilled over into real life before. So it is an incredibly scary situation. And do not look for it online because it is not fun. We look at it so you don't have to. But also on Friday, Breitbart News and a former Trump aide revealed the identities of two of the FBI agents who took part in the search and whose names were on the warrant,

which you can only imagine has led to increased harassment against them specifically. And then on Saturday, armed Trump supporters protested outside of an FBI office in Phoenix, Arizona. Very different vibe than like a peaceful protest. Armed. We want to keep that word in mind. Armed is a very different vibe. They're not being like subtle about the goals here, right? Like if you look on Truth Social and you look on these, it's really, really aggressive and violent and, you know, talking about real physical harm. And adding to the list of things Trump is doing to worsen the situation, we recently found out that before Attorney General Merrick Garland's press conference last Thursday, a person close to Trump reached out to the Justice

Department with a message. In a weird game of telephone, Trump wanted Garland to know that people were upset about the raid and, quote, the country is on fire. What can I do to reduce the heat? Okay, so this is... Please explain how absurd this is to everybody listening. This is, first of all, the second attorney general in a row that this man has personally approached and asked to, like, do him a possibly illegal favor.

Yeah. It's so dumb. This is like almost like a DM slide. Like you sort of just like, oh. It's almost a DM slide if you are zero for zero on DM slides. Right. It is like DM sliding like a celebrity. But it is the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the country who just, by the way, signed the warrant.

Signed the warrant! It's so bizarre to me to ask one of your people to reach out to Merrick Garland. The crazier thing is whoever actually did it. Yeah, sure. I have his number. I'll give him a call. If you're reaching out to the attorney general on behalf of Donald Trump, it's just bad. Okay, so we don't really know what to make of that.

Is that a threat? Is that like you're asking for legitimate advice? Are you asking for like some kind of deal that's shady? We don't really know what to make of that. Is that a threat? Is that like you're asking for legitimate advice? Are you asking for like some kind of deal that's shady? We don't know. Right. But it just makes this whole debacle a lot more confusing and a lot more weird. That all being said, though, a lot of questions remain about what all of this means. And legally speaking, you know, what is going to happen next?

To unpack all of this drama, we have with us legal expert Leah Lippman, co-host of Crooked Strict Scrutiny. Leah, welcome back to What A Day. Thanks so much for having me. Of course. Thank you for being here. So committing espionage is an incredibly serious act with a punishment that could include death in this country.

That most likely won't happen here. But based on what we know and what has been made public, do you have a sense for how strong the DOJ's case is? It's a little bit difficult to know, but based on two things, I feel like it's probably something involving Trump. One is the recent reports that one of Trump's lawyers certified to the FBI or DOJ that actually they had given back all of the classified secretive material. And so it seems like he is making false representations to federal law enforcement. Like that is generally frowned upon and is oftentimes, you know, the most common crime that people get caught up in, making a false statement to a federal law enforcement

officer. And seems like that probably happened here. You know, the second thing is, who else is fucking keeping boxes of classified top secret information at Mar-a-Lago? Like, that's not where Jared lives full time, right? It's probably Trump. Right. One of the things, Leah, that I feel like, you know, might not be obvious to people is the difference between the FBI showing up to ask questions or get information and the difference between like regular law enforcement doing that, right? Like, if the FBI shows up, they probably already know the answer. Yeah. So the typical story in federal law enforcement when you're dealing with federal prosecutors or, you know, the FBI is they have the flexibility and the resources to pick and choose their cases and to build their cases.

So they're not usually descending on someone's house unless they have decided it's probably going to be worth our time. Right. So Trump and his supporters are using the defense that all of the documents he had with him were declassified. I don't know if you guys watch The Office, but it gives me strong. I declare bankruptcy. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I declare declassification process is? And like, is there really even a question as to whether or not these documents were declassified or not? It's so difficult to peel back all of the layers of stupidity that are happening here, because at a very basic level, it just doesn't matter whether the documents are declassified or not. You know, these federal laws

predate the system of presidential and executive branch classification. They apply to material that could damage the United States, whether or not it is formally classified. So first, it's just irrelevant. Second, it's not possible to just tweet out, this is declassified, or just like stand by yourself in your room at Mar-a-Lago and announce that you are declassifying documents. You know, the procedures are, there has to be a formal memorialization. And you add to that that he can't declassify documents as a private citizen. He is the former president of the United States. Like, former presidents just don't get to go around declassifying documents. Also, in any case, President Biden could reclassify them. There's just so many different layers about why this is wrong. It's just fascinating to watch all of this stuff be spun out. Completely. There's also been quite a change in how members of the GOP are talking about this whole drama that is unfolding. They very quickly went from defund the FBI,

which was hilarious, to more of like a let's wait and see. South Dakota Senator Mike Rounds, he was asked about this on NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday. Here is what he said. It's important that we recognize that there's more information to be released yet. I think releasing the affidavit would help. At least that would confirm that there was justification for this raid. OK, so what should we make of this, you know, turn? And then what more are they asking for?

What more do they want to see here? They're never going to be satisfied. A few news cycles ago, it was release the warrant. A few cycles ago, it was what's the big deal? It's not like he took nuclear secrets. I mean, there is no bottom to which these people will stop. And so, you know, I feel like that is just what is going on. We are about two to three news cycles away from everyone should be publicly displaying the nuclear codes whenever they have a chance, right? That's what free speech is. I mean, if that's what it takes, that's what they will say. The Department of Justice has tried many steps to make this process as unpolitical as possible. But here we are, and there is no going back. So Trump and Republicans are deliberately making this seem like a partisan witch hunt, witch hunt being his favorite word. How will this make Garland's job even harder going forward? It's a very tough situation because, of course, there is some value to equality under the law. When you commit violations of the Espionage Act, you should be treated rule of law or equality under the law difficult to maintain

when, you know, you have one side basically saying you can never prosecute, you can never investigate, you know, the individual who is the leader of our kind of side or movement or cult or, you know, however you want to describe it. So, it is going to make Merrick Garland and federal law enforcement's job more difficult. We've already seen reports about threats, attacks, violence against FBI offices, FBI agents. You know, there have been horrific threats against the judge who signed the warrant, actually causing, you know, a synagogue to have to cancel services because of the volume of anti-Semitic hate directed at them. So of course

this is going to make federal law enforcement's job more difficult. It's going to make DOJ's job more difficult. That was always going to be a cost, if not the primary cost, of trying to hold Trump accountable. So based on everything we know now, what are the next steps for the Justice Department in taking this forward? I feel like there are two different tracks. One is it seems like some of the information, at least in the way it is described in skeletal forms in, you know, the materials, they're going to need to figure out who actually had access to it. You know, there have been reports that they're actually fingerprinting the documents to try to determine like who else saw this information. And so there are national security, you know, decisions that are going to have to be made, you know, based on

that. And then on the law enforcement side, the next step is usually an indictment. That's kind of what would happen next. And I feel like that's going to have to be the next decision that, again, is going to have to take into account all of these costs we are already seeing and attempting to hold Trump accountable. But that's kind of the next stage. It's like, who do you indict

for what would be the next step in the process? Got it. Okay. That was Leah Lippman, co-host of Crooked's Strict Scrutiny Podcast. Leah, thank you so much for joining us once again. Thanks for having me. Be sure to check out Crooked's pod,

Strict Scrutiny, wherever you get your podcasts. We will be sure to keep following all of this, but that is the latest for now. We'll be back with some headlines. Headlines. Author Salman Rushdie is recovering and off of a ventilator after he was stabbed 10 times last Friday. The attack happened just minutes before he was set to speak at an event in New York State. Police arrested and charged the 24-year-old New Jersey man who rushed on stage to assault Rushdie, but have not ID'd his motive yet,

though the author has lived under constant threat of violence for over three decades after he published his novel, The Satanic Verses. In 1989, the former Ayatollah of Iran called the book blasphemous to Islam and issued an edict to Muslims known as a fatwa to kill Rushdie. But again, there is no clear connection between that and this attack. Another tragic story, the actress Anne Heche was taken off of life support yesterday after recipients were found for organs she had wished to donate. Heche was declared brain dead at the end of last week following her horrific August 5th car

accident. She overcame abuse in her childhood and later relentless critical coverage in the media to deliver intense and vulnerable performances in films like Birth, Donnie Brasco, and Wag the Dog. She was 53. Climate change continues to give us too little water or too much, but never the exact right amount. According to a new study from UCLA, the phenomenon could be doubling drought-stricken California's chances of getting slammed by an unprecedented mega flood. Here is what could happen by the end of the century. As global temperatures rise, warmer air will be able to hold more moisture in the atmosphere, creating what meteorologists call atmospheric rivers. And when these literal rivers of water in the sky reach land, they can release enormous amounts of rain or snow in their wake. The last big flood to sweep through the Golden

State happened in 1862, and the UCLA study predicts that an even bigger deluge is now more likely to strike. Such a disaster could force millions of people to flee their homes and potentially cause nearly a trillion dollars in damage and also make me rethink, you know, my living plans for the rest of my life. So cool. Yeah. Mega flood. Not a term I'd ever heard before. Nope. Didn't need to know about mega floods. Nope. New York is making life even harder for incarcerated people and their families. Over the past month, the state's prison system has been phasing in a policy blocking people in prison from receiving homemade care packages. The so-called Secure Vendor Program is billed as an attempt to keep prisons free of drugs and other contraband,

but critics have pointed out that those things are much more likely to be smuggled in by prison guards. While banning care packages robs people in prison of one of their last remaining comforts, and in many cases, an important nutritional supplement to their low-quality meals. The new policy also places a financial burden on families who, if they want to send gifts, must now rely on expensive third-party companies that are deemed safe. New York isn't alone in having a policy like this. California and Florida, among other states, also ban packages sent from home.

This is among the cruelest things you can do to people who are incarcerated, who often have, I think 80% of people are incarcerated are parents. They often have kids at home or family or friends, and now they can't get anything from them because quote-unquote drugs, when already these packages were inspected to within an inch of their lives. friends and now they can't get anything from them because quote unquote drugs when like already

these packages were inspected to within an inch of their lives. I know this. I've had to send plenty of these and it's very difficult to get stuff through. Yeah, we have known that guards were kind of how this stuff was getting in for a long time. It is very clear that like, you know, the people who run this system understand that as well. So this just ends up being an intensely cruel and terrible thing to do. Also in New York, our shared feeling that time has lost all meaning has been confirmed by health officials who are sounding the alarm on polio. That is after the virus was detected in sewage samples from different parts of the state, including New York City, indicating that it's spreading through communities. Do not like the sound of that one bit. Polio is a virus usually

transmitted through feces, and it can lead to paralysis and even death. The bigger risk is to children younger than six who haven't gotten all four doses of the vaccine yet. So parents, get those Spider-Man band-aids ready. And adults, most of you were vaccinated against polio as kids, so unless your mom was Jenny McCarthy or one of her disciples, the CDC says that you are protected. Although they added that you can opt for a booster shot if you work in a lab or a health care setting where you're more likely to come in close contact with the virus. The American diplomatic effort to make China as mad as possible continued yesterday as a delegation of U.S. lawmakers landed in Taiwan. The five-member group, led by Democratic Senator Ed Markey of Massachusetts,

arrived less than two weeks after House Speaker Nancy Pelosi visited the island nation. That trip drew outrage from Beijing and touched off days of tense Chinese military drills. China has long claimed the self-governing island of Taiwan as its own territory and considers it a, quote, breakaway province. The U.S. has a longstanding policy to ensure that Taiwan can defend itself from China, even though Taiwan is not recognized as an independent country. What we've lost in privacy, we will gain in laughter in a new show called Ring Nation, which rounds up viral clips from Ring cameras to create a version of America's Funniest Home Videos, updated for the surveillance

state that we now live in. Tragically, the show is hosted by comedic legend Wanda Sykes. It hails from Ring, which is owned by Amazon, MGM Television, which is owned by Amazon, and Big Fish Entertainment, which is owned by MGM and therefore Amazon. Not very funny about all of this is Ring's role at the forefront of turning houses into big wooden narcs. Not only do doorbell cameras give us live feeds of our neighbors trying to carry all the groceries inside on one trip, that is me, I'm not going to make a second, no matter how much stuff I have, Ring is also on record saying it has repeatedly provided footage to law enforcement without getting user permission, a court order, or a warrant, which is just extremely uncool.

Very much. Ring Nation is set to premiere next month. Whether or not you watch it, it will be watching all of us. Not okay. This also doesn't sound like a good show. This doesn't sound entertaining. There might be like one or two like, whoa, that's wild. I'm sorry. I don't want to watch shitty Ring camera footage for what, 30 minutes? Like for multiple episodes? Who thought this was a good idea? i don't 30 minutes like right for multiple episodes who thought this was a good idea i don't need to be thinking about ring when i'm watching the other two but now i will wow amazon fuck you for all of that truly and those are the headlines two more things before we go on the newest episode of pods of america live from atlanta

there is a special guest host and that guest host is me. It's amazing. You have to listen. Josie is a real life celebrity. I am. I mean, she's already on this show all the time, but Pod Save America. You should listen to this episode for many reasons, including that the entire end is Herschel Walker quotes and I was blown away by some things that

this man has said and I am in Georgia. I'm excited. Listen and then go to votesaveamerica.com because we need that shit immediately. Plus everyone's favorite talking tree is back and X-Ray Vision

takes a deep dive into the delightful new Disney animated series I Am Groot. Plus Harley Quinn co-creator Justin Halpern makes an appearance to dish on everything

from the inspiration behind the series to how they squeeze so many jokes into every minute. New episodes of X-Ray Vision drop every Friday. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. That is all for today.

If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, binge watch the original America's Funniest Home Videos, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just the full text of the espionage act like me, What A Day is also a nightly newsletter. So check it out and subscribe at crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Josie Duffy Rice. I'm Priyanka Arabindi.

And come at me, polio. Absolutely do not come anywhere near me, please and thank you. Do not. Stay far away. You're probably fine, but polio boosters do exist. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Bill Lance, Jazzy Marine, and Raven Yamamoto are our associate producers.

Our head writer is John Milstein, and our executive producer is Leo Duran. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.