What A Day - Disqualified Immunity with Rep. Ayanna Pressley

Episode Date: June 17, 2020

Trump signed a fairly inconsequential executive order yesterday that is supposed to incentivize police departments to adopt reforms. Across the country, local officials are continuing to respond to protests against police brutality and systemic racism—some making more impactful moves than others. We interview Massachusetts Rep. Ayanna Pressley about federal legislation on policing, and why ending qualified immunity is a central goal.And in headlines: violent clashes along China and India’s border, the Black Lives Matter Foundation versus Black Lives Matter, and an aggressive cyberstalking campaign from eBay.

It's Wednesday, June 17th. I'm Akilah Hughes. And I'm Gideon Resnick, and this is What A Day, where we are reminding you that brunch tastes just the same at home, and it costs like $3. That's right, and you can start whenever you want. You don't have to wait for everybody in front of you because they all want brunch. I hate waiting for brunch. It's dumb. So why don't you just, like, cook it at home?

The line for the Pop-Tart in the toaster is just one person, me. On today's show, a conversation with Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley about legislation to end police violence, then some headlines. But first, the latest. Amazing grace. But first, the latest. That was President Obama singing Amazing Grace during a eulogy for Reverend and South Carolina State Rep Clementa Pinckney. He was one of nine Black people killed during the mass shooting at the Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston. Today marks five years since that tragic event. And there are remembrances and marches taking place today to honor the lives that were lost and to continue calling for racial justice. In news, we are continuing to see local action being

taken towards police departments in the wake of weeks-long protests against police brutality and systemic racism. In Atlanta, Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms signed a series of executive orders aimed at restricting the use of deadly force. In Baltimore, the city council approved more than $22 million in police spending cuts for the next year, about a 5% cut. And in Albuquerque, where an armed extremist was arrested yesterday after shooting a protester, the mayor created a new public safety department to respond to nonviolent calls. We've also seen a lot of action out of D.C., so let's start with what Trump did yesterday, a press conference and executive order on policing. Yeah, so this

executive order seems like it's going to do very, very little. And there's not really anything that is immediately enforceable in it. But basically, it functions as a set of principles that are supposed to incentivize police departments to adopt reforms. But as an example of how watered down this is, Trump said that the Justice Department would prioritize federal grants to police departments that meet certain practices, including the banning of chokeholds, with one major caveat, quote, except if an officer's life is at risk. Yeah, which they always claim it was at risk when they are, you know, doing those sort of illegal chokeholds. Yes. I mean, leaving that as a subjective judgment makes it pretty worthless. You're right. He also said the federal government would help provide resources for departments that have social workers join officers on calls that don't have to do with violent crime.

The order also directs the Justice Department to create a database that tracks when officers have been fired or decertified or involved in other misconduct. So the whole thing is extremely limited. And people also noted after the fact that the order and Trump's signing ceremony made no reference to racism as part of this broader issue. Yeah, which of course he didn't. Of course he did not. And then in terms of actual real legislation, we're expecting Senate Republicans to put forward their policing bill as soon as today. And that bill is being led by Senator Tim Scott, the only African American Republican in the Senate, so tokenized already. But House Democrats already put out a bill. So this is the Republican response. And what do we know about what's actually going to be in it?

Yeah, it's also a little bit more limited. It's reportedly going to create a database of use of force incidents, make lynching a federal hate crime and target the use of chokeholds, this time by withholding some federal funds to various departments throughout the country. And there's some overlap between what the White House, Senate Republicans, and House Democrats are all talking about here. But House Democrats are going much, much farther in their bill than Republicans, though both parties at this time are falling short of addressing protesters' desires for defunding police departments and reinvesting that money. Yeah. And one of the key things that Democrats have put forward but is missing from the Republican side is any action on qualified immunity. So that's that legal doctrine that

has often shielded police officers from civil lawsuits over misconduct on the job. On Monday, as we mentioned, the Supreme Court declined to hear cases challenging this legal immunity for police officers, leaving the issue up to lawmakers. But it's become an early sticking point between both parties. Yeah, that's exactly right. So the House Democrats bill, the Justice in Policing Act would actually end qualified immunity if passed. And then Democratic Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley, alongside Libertarian Rep Justin Amash, have been leaders on this issue in their own right, writing their own bill specifically about ending this. We spoke with Pressley yesterday about why she's working on qualified immunity, what else needs to be done here, and what she makes of this inflection point in history.

Here's a little bit of that conversation. True justice would be that all these folks would still be alive. But in the absence of that, there must be accountability. And so qualified immunity is this set of protections that was invented by the Supreme Court. It's been expanded in court case after court case. And it has shielded police from accountability, even in the most egregious cases of murder and police brutality. So what that means is that behavior doesn't change because there's no consequences. What is the deterrent that people

can operate with great impunity, with callous disregard for Black and brown lives, and there is no recourse, no retribution, no justice. So ending the Qualified Immunity Act, which I've introduced in partnership with Representative Justin Amash, would eliminate qualified immunity, restore Americans' ability to obtain relief when state and local officials,

including police officers, violate their legal and constitutionally secured rights. So there can be no justice without healing and accountability, and there can be no true accountability for as long as qualified immunity is the law of the land. So that's the perspective that you're offering. That's a perspective that is going into that particular element of this reform. And yet we have President Trump and Senator Tim Scott, who is leading Republican efforts on policing in the Senate from the Republican side. They've rejected ending

qualified immunity and saying that that's actually something that they do not want in any sort of package that, you know, comes to their respective desks. So where do you go from here? Is this something that Democrats should and will stand firm on? I mean, none of that which you're offering is surprising. You know, this is a DOJ that operates with the absence of justice. This is an administration headed by someone who has a long history of racial prejudice and bigotry, who fans the flames of xenophobia in his policies and also in his rhetoric. So what could I possibly be surprised by, especially when it comes to evading and obstructing accountability? I serve on the Oversight and Reform Committee, and we are very busy because this administration, when it comes to their

policies, the cruelty is the point. When it comes to their culture, the corruption and the chaos are the point. And they have at every turn sought to evade, obstruct, to stonewall accountability when it comes to their own administration. And even with the pressure they had earlier today to not even include police brutality, to not even speak to systemic racism, structural racism. So I believe that Congress must lead, we must legislate, and in this moment, we must act as the conscience for our nation. And those in the community protesting, demonstrating, mobilizing believe that, too. And so we have to stand in the gap in the absence of justice with this administration. We've heard, you know, to your point, we've heard a lot from protesters about defunding the police. I mean, do you think that individual city budgets allocate too much money to policing?

Which I think I know the answer, but, you know, just to have it nice and crispy. Yeah, listen, I think we, you know, spend too much money on defense. I think we spend too much money in our line items to our police departments. We certainly spend too much money militarizing them. There is a, you know, that's something that I've called for in my people justice guarantee resolution to stop the transferring of military grade equipment to our police departments. You know, if we're arming people and many of them are disproportionately veterans as well with military grade equipment, then why wouldn't they go into communities as if they are at war with them instead of operating from a place of protecting and serving. And, you know, I have been in Congress for two years, but I did serve on the Boston City Council for eight years. And so I know about these unjust choices.

That's exactly why I voted down at least three city budgets consecutively, because I refuse to make the unjust choice between a school nurse, a paraprofessional in the classroom, or an accredited librarian. You know, this is not a matter of a lack of resource. This is about a lack of values, alignment, prioritization, targeted dedication and allocation of funds. And so, you know, look, I appreciate the solidarity and that people are rocking their Black Lives Matter merchandise and hashtagging and liking and retweeting. This is about budgets. This is about policies. And those are the only receipts that I care about in this moment. Look, Black folks are, you know, I was telling someone today, I'm like, look, Black women, we've been caping for everything

and everybody for a long time. We are gutted. We are exhausted. You know, we will continue to do what it is that we do. But I am encouraged that this movement is one that is multi-generational, that is multi-racial, and that we no longer have to make the case that this is a real thing, that racism is corrosive and pervasive and structural. These are not anomalies of brutality, that this is embedded in the DNA of who we are. And so that is progress. That is progress. So I don't want to give short shrift to that. And that's why even though my heart breaks, you know, by the hour, it's also, you know, it also swells with the possibility and the opportunity of this sort of acute tipping point that we have of public sentiment broadly, and even just the notion that marches and protests are happening outside of major cities, as we've all seen in communities throughout the country. Has it surprised you then how quickly public sentiment seems to have kind of crystallized around these systemic problems that you are talking about in the past couple of weeks?

I don't know if it surprises me. I'll just say I'm very encouraged and very emboldened in this moment as a legislator. And I think it's really important to acknowledge that the tipping point where the brutal murders consecutively of unarmed Black folk, that people are not only in the streets because of police brutality, that it is about the confluence of generations of hurt, again codified in legislation across every issue. So when we say Black Lives Matter, that means Black data matters, Black research matters, Black scholars and students matter, Black business matters. Black scholars and students matter. Black business matters. You know, health care justice, housing justice, Black home ownership matters. And we have to be that precise, that strident, that unapologetic.

So, you know, that's what we want to see. That was Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley. It's Wednesday, WOD Squad, and for today's Tim Check, we'll be discussing an essential American tradition. That's Nathan's hot dog eating contest. Like many other professional sports, the annual 4th of July contest will be a little bit different this year. There will be just 10 competitors instead of the normal 30, and the event, which typically attracts more than 20,000 spectators, will be broadcast without a crowd. Giddy, two questions.

Will you be tuning in? And if a person eats 70 hot dogs and no one's watching, did they even eat any hot dogs at all? I think the rule is that if you don't see anybody vomit, they obviously, you know, have not crossed that important threshold of the hot dog eating. I'm not going to be tuning in. I never tune into this. The images alone disgust me. The idea of dipping a hot dog in water in order to go faster disgust me as a concept. So no, I disqualify this event and I always disqualify this event as anything that I would be participating in. That's absolutely fair. It is hard to see. And it's also like I keep thinking about the fact that when people are training for this,

they eat like tons and tons of like cabbage or lettuce to like expand their stomach. So I'm like right now at this moment in American history, there's someone in their house just eating tons of cabbage preparing for this moment. It's so insane. Where did they get the cabbage during a global pandemic? I don't know. Are they hoarding cabbage? I hate all of it.

Yeah, it's definitely wild. So we know that, for the record, neither of us are going to be watching this. No. Nope. But you've seen it before. Yes, I've seen it before, totally by accident. It was my first time going to Coney Island, the first year I lived in New York. So in 2012, we got off the train at Coney Island and it was literally like you get off and you're right in front of the stage.

And I was like, oh, what's happening? And we had to run through a crowd of like I mean, it was way more than 20,000 people. So we couldn't even get to the beach that day. Oh, my God. So it was it was horrific and yeah i if you like horror movies you're gonna love watching silent like just yeah people eating a thousand hot dogs in silence like only only the sound of teeth gnashing over wet oh my god no one wants to hear that in the morning we checked our temperatures and we're gonna check in with you all again tomorrow please

don't even attempt this at home. Eat just one dog. Let's wrap up with some headlines. Headlines. Let's wrap up with some headlines. Violent clashes along China and India's border left 20 Indian soldiers dead on Tuesday. It's the first deadly confrontation to happen there in over 70 years. In the past few weeks, both countries have been sending more and more troops to that border, which has historically been a very disputed area. The unmarked territory plus lots of military presence equals major tensions. And there have reportedly been shouting matches, stone throwing, and even one cross-border fist fight.

Chinese officials have not confirmed any casualties on their side. Looking at another tense border, though, North Korea blew up an office building in the demilitarized zone near its border with South Korea. The building had been cleared out due to the pandemic, but it was used for talks between the two Koreas. Look, I don't want to assume, but judging by the explosion, I'm pretty sure those talks aren't going so well. Yeah, everything is happening all the time.

It truly is. It's really too much. I'm done. I'm done. In good news, though, a cheap and widely available drug could potentially be used to treat the most severe cases of COVID-19. That is, according to researchers in the UK who found that dexamethasone, a steroid used to treat severe asthma and allergic reactions, cut the risks of death for COVID patients on ventilators or supplemental oxygen. Trials found that it did not help patients with mild symptoms, though. Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb said the drug could reduce the virus's mortality rate and that doctors are already accustomed to prescribing it. The use of steroids to treat viral respiratory infections like SARS and MERS has been controversial in the

past, but researchers say the latest findings are groundbreaking. Great. Well, donations to the Black Lives Matter movement have soared over the past few weeks and so have donations to the Black Lives Matter Foundation, a separate nonprofit that has almost the exact same name but completely different goals. The California-based Black Lives Matter Foundation wants, quote, unity with the police department, which is probably not what people had in mind when they sent them over $4 million this month. Most of the donations were halted by fundraising sites or transferred to the real BLM, but Robert Ray Barnes, who is the BLM Foundation's founder and only employee, says he wasn't trying to deceive anyone. He claims the Black Lives Matter movement stole his name and profits, okay? Profits he would

have used for Black Lives Matter Foundation initiatives like, literally, an idea Barnes has called Have a Cup with a Cop, where people drink coffee with police officers i'm personally gonna start my own foundation to stop this man from running any other foundations yeah this should definitely be called the kylie jenner uh pepsi ad foundation um is that the right kindle it's kindle yep all right well whatever it's not a difference don't worry it'll get cut uh six former ebay workers were charged on mond Monday after waging an aggressive cyber-stalking campaign against a Massachusetts couple who criticized their site in their e-commerce newsletter.

What exactly the couple wrote in the newsletter is unclear, but what is known is how the maniacs at eBay reacted by texting each other, quote, we are going to crush this lady, and then mailing out terrifying shipments like a pig mask live bugs and a very ominous book about dealing with the loss of a spouse oh my god yeah sorry um ebay employees even listed the couple's address online as a destination for swingers creative but depraved nonetheless notably the ebay employees weren't entry level two were heads of their departments and ebay's former ce, Devin Wettig, also reportedly approved of the harassment

campaign. He resigned around the same time the employees were fired. Now, I did not know when I bought vintage t-shirts from this website that I was supporting an entire company of Batman villains, but we learn something new every day. Yeah, yeah. We learn, and, you know, those are the headlines.

Quick announcement before we go, if you haven't already joined our Adopt a State program, it's not too late to jump on board. So basically, you pick a battleground state and do digital organizing to get out the vote. To join, head over to votesaveamerica.com slash adopt. And while you're there, sign up for a training session with our friend and colleague John Lovett for this Thursday, where he'll explain everything you need to know about voting by mail. That is all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, sell us a vintage shirt, and tell your friends to listen.

And if you're into reading and not just the fine print of the places you're donating to like me, a day is also a nightly newsletter check it out and subscribe at cricket.com subscribe i'm akilah hughes i'm gideon resnick and good luck good luck with your at-home brunch yeah hope you got some waffles don't spill the hollandaise honestly that was a phrase that's the funniest thing ever what a day is a product of crooked media it's recorded and mixed by charlotte landis sonia tun is our assistant producer our head writer is john milstein and our senior producer is katie long our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.