What A Day - Locked Up During Lockdown

Episode Date: April 6, 2020

We interview Keri Blakinger, a reporter at The Marshall Project who covers prisons, on how jails and detention centers are managing release of inmates to prevent the spread of coronavirus, and how the urgent push to get people out is affecting former inmates. Government officials say the coming two weeks could be the most difficult yet as some states approach their potential peaks for COVID-19. Other states have begun to ramp down. We discuss that as well as new demographic data that paints an early picture of who is disproportionately affected by the virus.

It's Monday, April 6th. I'm Akilah Hughes. And I'm Gideon Resnick. And this is What A Day, reminding you to please listen to this podcast from six feet away. Yeah, like in your house, like not near me, like away from everybody. You should be underground while you're blasting this through your speakers. On today's show, the efforts to release inmates from jail during the coronavirus pandemic, then some headlines. But first, the latest. Together we are tackling this disease. And I want to reassure you that if we remain united and resolute, then we will overcome it. Yes, that was the Queen of England making only,

I believe, her fifth speech in her entire 68-year reign as the Queen of England. So now I think we all realize it's a pretty big deal. But as we enter a new week, some things are still the same. The president continues to dangerously tout an unproven medicine for COVID-19. He did that as recently as yesterday, again in the press conference. I don't know why he's doing it, but, you know, we're all getting new hobbies. Governors still aren't getting the supplies they need from the federal government, even as the feds are warning that this week will be, quote, the hardest moment for many Americans in their entire lives. And that was a quote from the Surgeon General. So not a sunny outlook. And obviously, cases are growing. But while some states are approaching their potential peak for

COVID-19, there are others that are perhaps starting to ramp down. So Gideon, what has that meant in practical terms? Yeah, so the best example worth highlighting about this is Washington State. We talked about it before, but on Sunday, they made a decision to return more than 400 ventilators to the national stockpile, basically deciding that other states like New York were more in need at this point, which is ultimately a good thing for Washington state and for social mitigation efforts. State officials in Washington have said that those efforts are working, but that the stay at home orders would have to remain in place for some time. In a slightly similar situation,

Oregon announced over the weekend that it would send 140 ventilators to New York, too. That's right. I mean, New York is very much in need, so it's good for them to get the help that they've been deserving. And we also have other states like Louisiana, New Jersey and Michigan calling for more ventilators. But there was another important story over the weekend about the data we have on COVID-19. So can you take us through that? Yeah. So there's this potential undercount in the country's coronavirus death toll. That's sort of the emerging idea coming from epidemiologists, public health experts. There were a number of stories on it in the

New York Times and Washington Post. And the reason why are sort of multitudinous at this point. Until Friday, the CDC had only been counting deaths where the presence of the coronavirus was confirmed in a lab test. So that criteria has now been changed. But we know that for a long time, testing wasn't widely available. The country is still terribly behind on it as we talk today. And postmortem tests are happening fairly unevenly throughout the country. And some tests are not detecting everybody who has COVID-19. So all those overlying things, people are starting to think that the numbers are actually going to be higher. So an undercount, though, isn't all that uncommon or unique to the

United States for now as people are learning more about the virus. And historically, there were studies about H1N1, the swine flu, that suggested that lab-confirmed deaths represented only a fraction of the total there, too. Yeah, so we don't really know the whole scope of this. And unfortunately, we probably won't for some time. But we are starting to get some data, although partial, about who is contracting COVID and who is more susceptible. Right. So again, this is sort of an incomplete window. But based on data reported by over a dozen states and New York City, where there are a lot of cases, it appears that women are getting infected slightly more than men, but that the majority of fatalities are men. According to the Washington Post, as of Friday, men made up 59% of overall hospitalizations in New York City and 62%

of the fatalities there. Scientists and academics are mostly speculating as to why this is the case at the moment, but some believe, given evidence with prior viruses, that women are able to have stronger immune responses than men. Female immune cells, they've said, can produce higher levels of interferons, proteins that stop viruses from replicating, and antibodies that help neutralize it. So there's a lot more to study, and the lack of complete reporting data from all the states means that this is mostly educated conjecture for now. Yeah. And also on the early data front, we're seeing some states and counties, but not nearly enough, report racial breakdowns and cases and deaths. So, you know, I, for one, am not at all shocked that African-Americans are disproportionately affected.

Gideon, what do we know so far? That's right. Yeah. I mean, in the early picture, that's emerging from the limited data that exists so far is exactly what you said. African Americans are more likely to get COVID-19 and to die from it when they're contracting it. For instance, there was a ProPublica story over the weekend that looked at Milwaukee County, where African Americans made up nearly half of COVID cases, even while they only make up 26% of the population. So we saw similar data from Michigan, Illinois, and North Carolina. And these are only the few states that are even reporting this data based on the cases that they've identified. So the reasons are somewhat obvious in a lot of senses.

Medical experts and academics point to the convergence of environmental, economic, and political factors that have historically made African Americans at higher risk for various chronic conditions throughout the history of the United States. I mean, for example, in Milwaukee, African Americans are more likely to be uninsured and also work in jobs like government, healthcare, transportation, and more that are deemed essential that make it nearly impossible to work from home, which is the best defense that people have right now from the virus. So in response to all of that, some Democratic lawmakers are pushing to have more disclosure nationally on demographic data

to be able to help those at-risk communities and also just stop the spread overall. Yeah. Well, hopefully we'll get more information on this in the days and weeks to come. We need everyone to be healthy in order to get past this. You know, it's not just your community or the demographic you're in. None of us are going to be safe until we all are. So that's the latest. A week ago, the Oakdale Federal Correctional Institution in Louisiana had one death from COVID-19. By Sunday, five inmates had lost their lives due to the virus. Now, that's just one example of how coronavirus is spreading inside our country's jails and prisons, now with hundreds of confirmed cases at facilities across the country. Officials are responding with lockdowns, limiting

communal times in jails, freezing visitations, and in some places, releasing inmates. In Cleveland, the county jail population has been cut in half. In Los Angeles, 10% of inmates have been released. But advocates and health professionals say the measures are just not enough to keep people safe. Yeah. And Carrie Blakinger is a reporter at the Marshall Project, where she covers prisons. We spoke with her yesterday to get a better understanding of what's happening right now and how inmate release decisions are being made. So the question of releases is something that varies so much by jurisdiction. So you have obviously county jails, which are the most local option. They're usually run by your sheriff's office.

That's usually where people who have not been sentenced yet are waiting. These are people that typically couldn't afford to post bail and that's why they're still in jail. It also typically includes people that, you know, might have been sentenced to a very short amount of time. So the release mechanisms for jails look very different from prisons. State prisons are, you know, where you have people that have been sentenced to a term of, you know, usually it's one or more years will get you in state prison, sometimes some places like two or more. But in jails, you can deal with releases by letting people, you know, reducing bail amounts for one to get people out more easily or by simply letting people out without paying bail at all if they don't pose a risk. Also, jails tend to have more control at the local level in terms of how they calculate how much credit you get for good time. You know, in a lot of systems, you get some percentage of your sentence off for behaving. So typically, local municipalities have more control over how that is calculated and might have an ability to simply let people out sooner.

And both of those mechanisms, you know, lowering bail or letting people out without bail and, you know, good times sound like they should be very straightforward. But in some cases, they can be really politically fraught. There's been sort of a lot of back and forth and battling about this going on in Texas and specifically in Harris County. And in fact, the governor, you know, the governor and the state attorney general both jumped into this fight and have mandated that nobody can be released on personal bond, which is when you don't have to pay money to get out if they have any prior violent crime. So if you punch someone 20 years ago and get arrested for trespassing now, you wouldn't be able to get out without paying money in Texas. And it's just it gets very complicated and in the weeds for what seems like it could be a very simple matter. Simply like, you know, can we safely release this person?

When you talk about prisons, it's, you know, it's a little different calculation because these are people who have all been sentenced. And it's usually about will the parole board let them out? That's usually what it comes to at the state prison level. These decisions are typically in the hands of parole boards and sometimes governors who can make decisions about clemency or compassionate release. And, you know, that is that's something that's varying by state, how different states are handling it. I think it takes a little longer to sort of make these decisions for prison systems than it might for county jails. And then in the federal prison system, we've actually seen some motion on that. In fact, this past week, you know, the bar put out a memo saying that they should expedite releases, compassionate releases, specifically at certain facilities that have

already seen a high number of infections and fatalities. So, you know, I think that's promising. We'll see sort of how that pans out. You know, it's, it's, there's still some questions about who really gets flagged for release and who doesn't. You know, I mean, there's a lot of people that are in there for, you know, nonviolent drug crimes. There's a lot of elderly folks who are in medically vulnerable positions. So, you know, there's a lot of people that could be compelling candidates for release by a number of different metrics. And I think there's a real question as to where to start. Absolutely. I mean, you know, when people are released, are they being supported in terms of, you know, finding housing or transportation back to their families, food, other basics?

Are they just kind of like, now you're out here, good luck. You're with other people who don't know what they're doing. Well, I mean, I think that's always what release has been from prison. You know, I certainly wouldn't expect it to get better during a pandemic you know um you know i think that these are like right now sort of separate discussions in a sense like you know we have the discussion about who to release and normally when we start talking about release we talk about re-entry but at this point i think there's just such an urgent push to get people out. And, you know, even if they're not in an ideal housing environment, presumably they can at least practice some better sanitation and, you know, have some attempt at better social distancing if they're in the free world.

But, you know, a lot of the places you might release people to might be closed or full. I mean, it's harder to send people to rehabs. Halfway houses might not really be a safe option right now. You know, homeless shelters are experiencing their whole own set of issues, you know. And then, of course, also, you've got new parolees coming out into a world where it's going to be really difficult to get a job because so many of these people would get jobs in food service. Like, that's a place that hires people with felonies. So, I mean, reentry is really fraught right now, but I think by a lot of metrics, it's going to still be safer than leaving people behind bars during a pandemic. Absolutely. And we know about kind of specific stories that we've seen about places like Rikers and others, but what specific

cities, states, prisons themselves have been particular trouble spots as of late that people are focusing on in terms of the spread? And is anyone kind of handling this well? I know that's sort of a broad question, but I'm curious. So I think that some places that I mean, obviously, like you said, Rikers has been bad. I know that, you know, Illinois has had some, you know, serious outbreaks there. You know, Louisiana is not doing well. Oakdale, which is a BOP, you know, a federal prison. But I think there's also some that are going under the radar or else simply haven't been hit yet or haven't tested enough to be very clear about how bad things are. I think that, you know, the Nebraska prison system is extremely overcrowded. There's facilities that are like 200% capacity there.

And it's a small prison system. And it's far from any sort of, you know, media center that is going to get it a lot of attention. So I think that, you know, people might not be paying as much attention to places like that. You know, they've only got something like a few thousand inmates. I mean, they're smaller than the Harris County Jail here in Houston, but they're far more overcrowded. And their prison system is, you know, from everything I understand, being largely non-responsive about some things. They

just had their first staffer test positive last week, though. So I think if things get bad, it'll be in the next week or two. But I mean, also Mississippi. I mean, there were so many problems there before this started. Alabama has been incredibly non-transparent. And Connor Sheets, a reporter in Alabama, just broke a story today about their internal documents that were leaked that show how bad they expect things to get there. They're expecting to have to call in the National Guard. They're expecting like 185 deaths potentially. And, you know, these are the systems that haven't even sort of been on the radar yet.

But there's one prisoner that I talked to who despite literally, you know, being in prison during a pandemic was actually more optimistic about any of this than I've been. And he was like, you know what, maybe this is the time that things will change. You know, maybe this is the time that finally all the years that we've had terrible conditions, terrible medical care, and that no one's really paid the attention that they should to prisons, maybe that will change because now what happens in prisons

will affect community health in a way it never has before. Like now we on the outside are going to pay the price for letting it be a petri dish inside jails and prisons. And he was optimistic that that would be the thing that would usher in some change. And I don't know if I'm that optimistic. It's really hard to look at what's going on right now and have any measure of optimism. You know, we have 140 some thousand prisoners put on lockdown last week. I think we

can expect that, you know, we might see a few hundred thousand more. I mean, we could easily in two weeks have half a million people living in lockdown waiting for, you know, the pandemic to hit them and to, you know, potentially die in prison. I mean, it could get very bad, but I guess some people have already been able to see some optimism out of this. That was Carrie Blakinger. You can follow more of her reporting at The Marshall Project. it's monday we are still home but we are still people with goals and wants and needs and that means it's time to check in with a buddy so giddy did you see anything that warmed your cold cold heart this weekend uh first of all my mom has taken notice of uh the giddy rep. So shout out to she. Yeah, she's love is an interesting word for it. What did I see this weekend? So we were talking about this earlier. My guy Mario,

whose last name I'm forgetting. He is a landlord in Brooklyn. I think he owned like 18 buildings or something and decided for this month he just wasn't going to collect rent from anybody. So that, you know, affected a decent little swath there in Brooklyn. And that was just like a really nice thing. And he seems he seems like a stand up gentleman. Oh, yeah, I love that. I love landlords doing the right thing right now. That should be a trend that continues. So that can just be our check in every time. Yeah. I mean, either they do the right thing or somebody makes them do the right thing. But outside of Mario, we prefer it the other way, you know? Yes. Yes. Outside of Mario, though, Akilah, anything that gave you some hope for this

week? Yeah. I mean, two things. you know, TikTok is kind of undefeated. And I saw this really great video that a dad made that was sort of a spoof of the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air intro about being stuck at home. Oh. And so I'll have to share that with you kids. And I also saw a really cute picture of a puppy and I believe it was a pony. I can't be sure. I think I have like animal blindness. I don't be sure. I think I have like animal blindness. I don't know. But they were like laying on each other and just cuddling. Yeah, I don't know the difference between most animals. It's a real problem. I'm working on it. But yeah, basically farm animals liking each other is always a genre that can warm my cold heart.

I want to see both of those things. And I also want to say that TikTok has made half of our team addicted to a certain kind of coffee drink, a foamy variety that individuals on our team who will remain nameless were making whipped coffee drinks with it earlier today. Oh, my God. I believe this is about yourself, right? No, it's not about me. But you'll know it when you hear it. We'll talk offline. Oh, my gosh. I believe this is about yourself, right? No, it's not. It's not about me, but you'll know, you'll know it when you hear it. We'll,

we'll talk offline. Oh my gosh. All right. Well, that was our temperature check. It's going to be a long week, but it's never too late to check in on your homies. We'll be doing it again tomorrow. let's wrap up with some headlines headlines president trump fired michael atkinson the intelligence community inspector general who was the first person to flag the Ukraine whistleblower complaint to Congress. Atkinson's decision set off a chain of events that led to Trump's impeachment trial. This drew a wave of criticism from many prominent Democrats who saw the move as an abuse of power. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said that Trump, quote, fires people for telling the truth. Yeah, we know, Chuck.

The president defended his decision by accusing Atkinson of bringing an inaccurate report to Congress and added that Atkinson was, quote, not a big Trump fan. So can someone just please call White House Human Resources? It's just Jared's cell phone. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson was admitted to a hospital in London on Sunday for coronavirus. The prime minister had been self-quarantining at home and was admitted to a hospital in London on Sunday for coronavirus. The prime minister had been self-quarantining at home and was expected to return to work on Friday, but a persistent temperature he's had for 10 days prevented that.

As of yesterday, Johnson was expected to stay in the hospital just one night. His foreign secretary and first secretary of state, Dominic Raab, was to chair a meeting on coronavirus this morning and is designated to take over if Johnson is incapacitated. HBO made 500 hours of programming available for free last Friday as part of a campaign called hashtag stay home box office. That means you get on HBO Go and pay $0 to watch The Soprano, Succession, Six Feet Under, and yes, Happy Feet 2. Keep the ice warm for me, Penguin friends.

We'll be dancing soon. Oh, my God. Well, if you're looking for free content that's more quick and biteable, the much-hyped streaming service Quibi launched today. If you sign up in April, it's free for 90 days, but good luck stopping once you're addicted to the Quibness. The app's 10 minutes or shorter shows were designed to be consumed on the go. TBD, though, on how people like them when they're on the stage.

Everybody get down with the quibness. A number of 5G cell phone towers in the UK were set on fire last week and over the weekend. Authorities have linked this trend to online conspiracy theories that connect the spread of the coronavirus to 5G technology. Guys, the only disease that spreads through cell networks is quibby addiction. Oh, come on. We officially have a problem. The 5G causes COVID-19 theory has been debunked by scientists and medical experts, but that doesn't stop a lot of out-of-the-box thinkers from making videos and posts about it. UK officials plan to meet with representatives from tech giants like Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok to discuss more aggressive measures to combat COVID-19 misinformation on their platforms. YouTube

announced yesterday that it will take down videos suggesting 5G is linked to coronavirus, and Pinterest has moved to limit search results related to COVID-19 to posts from recognized health orgs. We are living in the dumbest timeline, and those are the headlines. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, whistle us a tune, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just letters made of smoke blown out by a caterpillar in Wonderland like me, what a day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at Cricut.com slash subscribe. I'm Quibkeela Quibs. I'm Gideon Resnick. And keep moving those happy feet. We love you.

Mumble. That was the name of the penguin. Can you tell a penguin from a pony? Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.