What A Day - Political Violence In America

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

The search for a suspect in Charlie Kirk's death continues. The FBI released some grainy photos of a person of interest wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap — all in black — in the hope it might trigger tips or other information from the public. The FBI also said it recovered a bolt-action rifle that may have been used in the shooting. With no suspect in custody, no motive has been established either. And let's be incredibly clear: as of this moment, we still do not know why someone shot and killed Charlie Kirk. We spoke with Graeme Wood, Atlantic staff writer, about the growing trend of political violence in America.And in headlines, Senate Republicans go nuclear to push through Trump's nominees, the U.K. fires its ambassador to the U.S. over his links to Jeffrey Epstein, and the Department of Education ends grant funding for minority-serving colleges.Show Notes:Check out Graeme's piece – https://tinyurl.com/3p6ed8cjCall Congress – 202-224-3121Subscribe to the What A Day Newsletter – https://tinyurl.com/3kk4nyz8What A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcastFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday

It's Friday, September 12th. I'm Jane Koston, and this is Waday, the show that learned today that octopuses, yes, octopuses, not octopi, use all of their eight limbs in different ways. They use their front forearms for exploring and their back forearms for movement. Just a fun little fact for you to use at your next octopus-themed dinner party. On today's show, the Federal Trade Commission takes a look at the potential harm AI chatbots have on children. And the British government fires its ambassador to the United States for his extremely not great emails to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. But let's start with the latest updates on the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. At the time of this recording at 8 p.m. Eastern on Thursday, the search for a suspect continues. The FBI released some grainy photos of a person of interest wearing sunglasses and a baseball cap,

all in black, in the hopes it might trigger tips or other information from the public. The Bureau also said it had recovered a bolt-action rifle that may have been used in the shooting. With no suspect in custody, no motive has been established either. And let's be incredibly clear. As of this moment, we still do not know why someone shot and killed Charlie Kirk. Still, that has not stopped many, many people, quite loudly and with a whole lot of certainty, from characterizing his murder as an act of left-wing political violence. That includes President Donald Trump, who said this Wednesday night.

For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now. Several congressional Republicans echoed similar sentiments, accusing Democrats of contributing to a culture that led to Kirk's death. This, despite Republican Speaker of the House Mike Johnson trying to, as he told reporters, quote, turned the temperature down. Here he is on CNN Wednesday night. It's government of a by and for the people ourselves.

It means the people should be engaged. They should be informed. They should engage in thoughtful debate as Charlie Kirk was a model and a leader in. But at the end of the day, you can't take that home and you can't hate the person on the other side. We're all in this together. Democratic House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries also chimed in on Thursday. This moment requires leadership that brings the American people together as opposed to trying to further divide us. Political violence in any form against any American is unacceptable, should be denounced by everyone.

And moving forward, we have to figure out. a better way to come together. Kirk's death has been a terrifying reminder of the specter of political violence in a country where such acts of murder and mayhem have been markedly and blessedly rare over the last 40 years. But we didn't have social media 40 years ago,

where we can see someone die on TikTok and read someone's call for a civil war on Twitter. So to talk more about what this moment means, I spoke to Graham Wood. He's a staff writer at The Atlantic who wrote a piece entitled, Political Violence Could Devour Us All. Graham Wood, welcome to what a day.

Thank you. The subhead of your piece in the Atlantic says, quote, Charlie Kirk's murder was one of the worst moments in recent American history. Can you tell us why? Yeah, I mean, look, you for a living sit in the chair and say your opinions on things, that's what he was doing and he was shot. So the idea that political violence would get more common in America is always frightening. I mean, we have been blessedly, not totally.

free of it, but having less of it, even when you factor in all the assassinations we could name from the past several decades, all the terrible things that happen, the United States has been very free of, relatively free of political violence. And to see that change in front of our eyes, to see blood shed in that horrible way. And in that context, is a portent of something really bad, something that I at least 10 years ago did not think would revisit the United States. Yeah, I'm curious for you to be thinking about this in that context, because I've seen a lot of people, you know, making comparisons to different eras of political violence. You know, in the early 1970s, bombings were incredibly common in the United States. We, you know, Gerald Ford survived two assassination attempts.

But Gerald Ford was not president during an era of social media. And Kirk was a force on social media. And social media is where the most conflict of. about his murder is taking place. What role do you think it's playing in ratcheting up both political violence and the viability of political violence? I mean, part of it's just a matter of normalization.

There's something called in psychology, the availability heuristic where how mentally available is something? How easily can you imagine it? Can you picture it? And of course, if we see these things happening, if they approach us on our telephones, like the most intimate device that we look at. You know, this is something that in the past,

we might have seen a Zapruder film, grainy footage, and it's a very different thing for it to be something that is right there next to the pictures of your significant other or your kids, the image of someone instead having his throat explode in front of hundreds of people. So this is something that really changes things when it's something that is so think to so many people. And of course, the availability of it psychologically means a lot of people are going to think, oh, well, maybe that's something I might do. And it changes the political landscape significantly. Do we have examples of what that looks like from other countries?

I'm thinking about, you know, Germany or Italy during the years of lead. How does that availability heuristic lead to more political violence? Does it just seem like that's just the logical thing to do? Yeah, I mean, it's very difficult, of course, to assign causality that things like this, but these things build on each other. I mean, the fact that in Italy or in Europe in general in the 1970s, it was a normal thing to find out that there were bombings, that a bank would be blown up, that there would be a major political figure taken hostage, means suddenly that this is just one of the things that's on the menu for political action. And that has effects that I think most Americans right now, again, even considering what we've seen over the last 20 years, most Americans don't think of that as being on the menu. And suddenly it's going to be something that is, I hope not ubiquitous, but something that we'll think about a lot more. And the very thought of it is part of the terror that it causes. I'm curious thinking on social media.

Something I've been thinking a lot about is how social media is inherently performative. And so much of the statements in response to Kirk's murder have been performing for an audience, whether they have been performing, you know, being a normal person and saying, you know, this is terrible, or they're performing to an audience that is either cheering on his murder or cheering on horrifying consequences for all liberals. what element does that performance play in how we look at social media and how we interpret events like this? Oh, look, I, the context in which I have looked at social media professionally in the past, there was also a context of great violence. I was when covering ISIS, of course, every day we have imagery. It's totally performed. Yeah, extremely performative.

And very much trying to take an horrifying image and then cut you loose from what you believed about the world. so that you would take up what they had instead. What were the lessons from that? The main lesson was that you do have to figure out ways to consume these media, which we can't totally avoid, in ways that are protective of your own moral and mental health. This is enormously difficult task that I think in this infancy of this medium, social media. So I don't know that there's a recipe for it other than just, allowing the time to pass, and as perhaps some people who are younger than me, will grow up as

social media natives, and be better at protecting themselves from being basically made crazy by the images that they see. That is a process that I think we're just starting collectively to figure out how to do. Already, you're seeing people losing it a little bit. There's a website publicly identifying people accused of making light of Kirk's murder, historically black colleges and universities are on lockdown due to threats, and members of Congress are beefing up their own security. Who has the power to turn down the temperature? And what would that actually look like? Like, what would it look like to try to do that effectively? That's a great question. I have no answer for it. I mean, the first thing that I would look for is leadership that could

make a statement that was morally credible that people would listen to and would think, you know, I haven't thought this through myself, but I trust the person who's saying it. Do we have leadership like that? Clearly not. I can't think of a public figure who could say, let's all calm down about this. I can think of many public figures, including one very prominent one, who could say things that would cause the heat to ratchet out. As you've written, there's been an unquestionable uptick in political violence in just the last few years,

the plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, January 6th, the attack on speaker, Amerita, Nancy Pelosi's husband, two different assassination attempts against Trump, among many others. And you're right that periods of, quote, disorientation like this make people susceptible to political shifts. Can you explain what that means? Yeah. It's not as if I can reach into any literature of political psychology, but I can tell you, I feel it myself. When you see wild things happening that are things that you couldn't believe would ever exist before, then you just feel yourself kind of being cut loose from all the moorings that you had, political moorings, moral moorings.

And I think that's kind of what happens. I mean, I mentioned the way that conservatives have been energized by the murder of a 23-year-old Ukrainian immigrant, Irina Zerutska. And it was because there was images of her being stabbed to death on a commuter train in Charlotte, North Carolina, on August 25th, Images that are just horrifying to watch and that somehow penetrate deep into your brain, totally involuntarily, to a place where they cut you loose from what you thought reality was

and sadly can push you back to changes, perhaps what you might call it, changing an Overton window within ourselves, where suddenly you think that maybe I was wrong about everything and I'm open to a lot of things that I had previously considered anathema within politics. So, of course, that's exactly what various types of radicals expect that, yes, if something horrifying happens, that's an opportunity. That's an opportunity to say, maybe since you didn't see that coming, you might recalibrate your view of the world and be open to a politics that before you thought was far too fringe or radical for you.

So I suspect that the public execution of Carly Kirk will have that effect for a lot of people. Is there anything else about this political climate that you don't think is getting enough attention? Last year, when the assassination attempt against Trump happened in Butler, Pennsylvania, the first reaction I had was, thank God he wasn't killed. And the second reaction I had was, let's think about this in context. And as I suggested in the beginning of our conversation, the context is of a country that has had horrifically violent moments, but that in the last hundred years or so has actually been pretty low in political violence.

So I think context is what is still very important to see, which is that there's a whole world out there where the events that we saw yesterday those events are far more common, far more familiar to people. And so we don't have to guess what happens when that becomes a commonplace event. we can look at what happens in places like even, you know, Pakistan, like Indonesia, and indeed even in Western Europe during times. So what that should teach us, and I think that people's normie instincts kick in and they say, that was bad.

And sometimes they say that performatively. I think that what might be overlooked is we can see what happens when this happens all the time. And the instinct to denounce it is no longer an automatic one. Namely, that politics go totally haywire and everybody loses really, really badly. This is a horrible tragedy for individuals, but for society, it's truly unthinkable for someone who's been in the United States for his entire life to imagine what would be like if we lost that gift that this country has had for most of the last century. Graham, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you, Jane. That was my conversation with Graham Wood, staff writer at The Atlantic. We'll link to his article, Political Violence Could Devour Us All in the show notes. We'll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcast, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. What Today is brought to you by Magic Spoon.

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Get $5 off your next order at magic spoon.com slash day. Or look for MagicSpoon on Amazon or in your nearest grocery store. That's magic spoon.com slash day for $5 off. Here's what else we're following today. Democrats and their political base cannot deal with the fact that the American people elected President Trump. And so they're dragging out every confirmation in retaliation. This president would be fine if this Democrat temper tantrum didn't affect anyone else. But Democrats' historic obstruction is having serious consequences.

Republican Senate Majority Leader John Thune triggered the nuclear option Thursday to speak. beat up confirmation hearings for Trump's executive branch nominees. Hearings he says his Democratic colleagues delayed on purpose for petty partisan reasons, which Republicans would never do. The new rule allows the Senate to confirm an unlimited number of nominees in a block, rather than one by one. Republican senators will still be able to object to individual nominees, but the rule strips that power from the minority party, which has got a sting.

The vote was held up for hours on Thursday while Democrats tried to strike a deal to avoid the rule change, but ultimately it passed 53 to 45. The initial block of 48 Trump nominees, now primed for a smoother confirmation, include former Fox News host and Donald Trump Jr.'s ex-fiancee, Kimberly Gilfoyle, as ambassador to Greece, former New York Republican representative Brandon Williams

as Undersecretary for Nuclear Security, and Callista Gingrich, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich's wife as Ambassador to Sweden. She's half Swedish on her mother's side, okay? Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said the reason, and Democrats were delaying the confirmations wasn't because they were having a temper tantrum, but rather because of Trump's, quote, historically bad nominees. I was encouraged today by the news that the United Kingdom just fired their ambassador to the United States over the Epstein files.

Well, that makes two of us. Accountability. Ever heard of it, America? Kentucky Republican Representative Thomas Massey praised the British government Thursday for firing the country's ambassador to the United States. Peter Mandelson over his links to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Mandelson came under scrutiny after Democrats on the House Oversight Committee released a 50th birthday book compiled in 2003 for Epstein. In that album, Mandelson called Epstein, quote, My Best Pal. You know who also allegedly wrote Epstein a birthday letter in that book?

Anyway, on Wednesday, the Sun newspaper published emails that Mandelson allegedly sent to Epstein. Among other things, they showed Mandelson telling the disgraced financier in 2008 that his conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor was a miscarriage of justice. He wrote, quote, I can still barely understand it. It just could not happen in Britain. You have to be incredibly resilient,

fight for early release, and be philosophical about it as much as you can. Ew. By Thursday, Prime Minister Kier-Starmer had dismissed Mandelson. He was appointed to the role last year, but he's had a long career in British politics. Foreign office minister, Stephen Doughty, told Parliament the emails show the, quote, depth and extent of the pair's relationship and how it's, quote, materially different from what was previously known.

In particular, Mr. Speaker, Lord Madison's suggestion that Jeffrey Epstein's first conviction was wrongful and should be challenged is new information. And in light of that, Mr. Speaker, and mindful as we all are of the victims of Epstein, appalling crimes. He has been withdrawn as ambassador with immediate effect. See how easy that was. Mandelson wrote a letter to embassy staff saying, quote, their circumstances surrounding the announcement today are ones which I deeply regret. I continue to feel utterly awful about my association with Epstein 20 years ago and the

plight of his victims. You should. On Wednesday, the U.S. Department of Education announced it would end discretionary funding for several grant programs for colleges that enroll large numbers of minority students, or what the government refers to as minority-serving institutions. Apparently, it's considered discriminatory and unconstitutional to give students of color extra assistance to attend college. Here's what Education Secretary Linda McMahon had to say about the decision. Quote, discrimination based upon race or ethnicity has no place in the United States. She added,

quote, diversity is not merely the presence of a skin color. Stereotypes, an individual based on immutable characteristics diminishes the full picture of that person's life and contributions, including their character, resiliency, and merit. The move will affect hundreds of colleges and universities, with schools and states like California, Texas, and Arizona taking the biggest hit. According to the AP, as part of these cuts, the agency will hold back about $350 million that were already budgeted for this year. More than half of that sum was designated for a grant program set up specifically for colleges and universities with students bodies that are at least 25% Latino.

Congress officially created the Hispanic-serving institutions program in 1992, after realizing that Latino students were going to college and graduating at a rate far lower than white non-Latino students. Congress giveth, and the president taketh away. These AI companions are designed to mimic friendships, so they can hold deep conversations, they remember preferences, and they can even act. empathetically. So for the adolescent stage, this is quite appealing, but you have to remember, this is not real empathy. That's ABC's e-commerce editor, Bethany Brown-Silva, explaining how

AI chatbots mimic human behavior. The Federal Trade Commission said Thursday it's launching an inquiry into companies who operate AI chatbots, including meta, Snap, and the makers of chat GPT, among others. Letters were sent to the companies, asking them to explain what steps, if any, they're taking to make sure their chatbots are safe for children and teens who might see them as companions, and how the tech giants are ensuring that both users and their parents are aware of the risks involved before interacting with the bots. More than 70% of teens have used AI companions at some point, and 50% use them regularly, according to a new study from Common Sense Media. And it's not just for schoolwork. A lot of young adults treat them as friends they can go to for advice. A third said their conversations with AI chatbots

whereas or more satisfying than their conversations with real friends. If that isn't very worrisome on its own, the same bots have been shown to give kids dangerous advice about things like drugs, eating disorders, and even suicide. Several parents have sued companies like Character AI and Open AI for allegedly influencing their children to commit self-harm. Open AI and meta announced changes earlier this month to how their chatbots respond to teens asking questions about suicide

or showing signs of mental and emotional distress. And that's the news. Before we go, former Vice President Kamala Harris's new book shows a side of her we rarely see. More candid, more personal, and more revealing. On this week's hysteria, Aaron Haynes of the 19th joins Aaron and Alyssa to talk about Harris's book,

unpack the dangers of RFK Jr's anti-vax rhetoric, and look ahead to the WNBA playoffs. Tune into this episode of Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts or on YouTube. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, contemplate the fact that former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro

has been sentenced to 27 years and three months in prison for trying to stay in power and tell your friends to listen. And if you're under reading, and not just about how the former leader was convicted by a Supreme Court panel for acting with the purpose of, quote, eroding democracy and institutions. Like me, what a day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at cricket.com slash subscribe.

I'm Jane Koston, and Bolsonaro says he's running for president again in 2026. Because some people just can't help themselves. What a day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producer is Emily Ford. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Berg, Megan Larson, Gina Pollock, and Jonah Eatman.

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