What A Day - Trump Extracts Oil -- And The Venezuelan President

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Late Friday evening, President Donald Trump ordered the U.S. military operation that led to the capture of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro and his wife, Cilia Flores. After his capture, Maduro was taken by warship to the United States and then flown to New York, where he will face federal drug trafficking and weapons charges. There are a ton of questions around how this operation happened and what, if any, legal authority the United States had to capture Maduro in the first place. But most importantly: what happens to Venezuela now? To talk more about Venezuela, the prosecution of Maduro, and what the hell is going to happen now, we spoke to Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, former National Security Council Senior Director for the Western Hemisphere under the Biden administration. And in headlines, most Republicans are defending Trump's decision to topple Maduro, Marjorie Taylor Greene continues to criticize the president on her way out of Congress, and world leaders are meeting in Paris to discuss the Russia-Ukraine peace process. Show Notes:Call Congress – 202-224-3121Subscribe to the What A Day Newsletter – https://tinyurl.com/3kk4nyz8What A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcastFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's Monday, January 5th. Happy New Year. I'm Jane Koston, and this is what a day. The show wondering if Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, has any thoughts on President Donald Trump's recent adventures in Venezuela, given her comments back in October. For decades, our foreign policy has been trapped in a counterproductive and endless cycle of regime change or nation building. Maybe this, a regime. change incident is different this time, for reasons. On today's show, Georgia Republican Representative Marjorie Taylor Green resigns from Congress

after a career that played out like a Greek tragedy, or comedy, depending on how you look at it. And the bright-eyed, bushy-tailed mayor of New York, Zeran Mamdani, chastised his President Trump for his actions in Venezuela. He's also probably not super stoked that the newest resident of Brooklyn is Venezuelan president, Nicholas Maduro. Let's start there with formerish Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro. Yes, I know. A lot happened while we were away on break. But it's essential to begin with the biggest news of the year so far, the capture of Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores,

who were brought to the United States over the weekend. Here's Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, on CBS's Face to Nation. Sunday. We arrested a narco trafficker who's now going to stand trial in the United States for the crimes he's committed against our people for 15 years. And the person who helped him, of course, his wife, who was co-located with him, so she was arrested as well. That's what happened here. After months of attacking alleged drug trafficking boats in the Caribbean, President Trump ordered the operation late Friday evening. According to the New York Times, it took less than three hours, during which at least 80 people, including Venezuelan troops and civilians were killed. After

his capture, Maduro and his wife were taken by warship to the United States and then flown to New York, where they will face federal drug trafficking charges. They're scheduled to appear in court today. There are a ton of questions around how this operation happened and what, if any, legal authority the United States had to capture Maduro in the first place. But most importantly, what happens to Venezuela now? It seems like the Trump administration isn't really sure either. But in a press conference Saturday, President Trump said that we're running Venezuela and will be, for the foreseeable future. And on Sunday,

rebuked didn't exactly say otherwise to NBC's meet the press host, Kristen Walker. Mr. Secretary, who is in charge? Are you running Venezuela right now? Yeah, I mean, I keep people, you know, fixating on that. Here's the bottom line on it is

we expect to see changes in Venezuela. Changes of all kinds, long-term, short-term. We'd love to see all kinds of changes. But the most immediate changes are the ones that are in the national interest of the United States. That's pretty clear. And while the Venezuelan opposition has backed Nobel Prize winner Maria Carino Machado as a potential presidential candidate,

the Trump administration is supporting Venezuelan vice president, Delci Rodriguez, who is a big backer of Maduro, also the country's minister of petroleum, which I'm sure is just a coincidence. After all, Rubio explained out Sunday that sidestepping Machado is just about expediency. So to talk more about Venezuela, the prosecution of Maduro, and what the hell is going to happen now, I spoke to Juan Sebastian Gonzalez. He's the former National Security Council Senior Director for the Western Hemisphere under the Biden administration. Juan, welcome back to Waddae.

Thanks for having me. So first things first, what do we know about the United States' capture of Maduro and his wife early Saturday morning? Yeah, so everybody woke up to the sound or news of U.S. military attacks inside of Caracas, Venezuela. The U.S. says Venezuela,

under the de facto President Nicolas Maduro, became a threat to the United States, the trafficking of drugs, organized crime, corruption, and basically a strategic foothold for China, Russia, Iran. And overnight, U.S. Special Forces carried out a surprise operation.

They captured Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores. They flew him out. Maduro is now in U.S. custody in the Southern District of New York and is expected to face charges tied to drug trafficking and to the trafficking of weapons.

They describe him as a narco-terrorist that's involved in a conspiracy seed to move large amounts of cocaine. Specifically with this military operation, I was reminded of the effort to capture Saddam Hussein or previous efforts where the military operation reportedly took months of planning to execute and was very like thorough and well planned. But is there any clarity so far as to whether or not there's a plan for what happens now now that Maduro is in U.S. custody?

Not really. I will say I've been working in Venezuela for a very long time. And I never thought that special forces would be able to get in there. they've been coup-proofing that place for over 26 years. It's a high denial environment. It's an urban area. So amazing that Delta Force is able to do it. I think the closest historic analogy is Panama in 89 and 90,

but Secretary Rubio gave an interview to face the nation, where my takeaway was they basically either moved away or lied about their intent in Venezuela, which was initially like a democratic project. But right now the administration is treating it like a strategic and economic takeover problem. It's unclear what's going to happen next. They've allowed Delci Rodriguez, who's the sitting vice president, to remain in power. So this is not regime change.

It's autocrat change, basically. We're now dealing with Maduro Light. And what Rubio basically said was they're going to continue to impose the oil embargo on Venezuela to try to pressure her to do what is right. And by that, I think you look at the president's press conference, and it's they want the oil and the resources inside of the country. But this could go very much sideways. and they really isn't, they haven't articulated how the U.S. would do it, but they're definitely going to own it because the president has said the U.S. will run Venezuela for a period and push for a transition. Yeah, I was really struck by how this operation seemed to be focused purely on Maduro.

You mentioned Vice President Delsi Rodriguez, who, you know, the Wall Street Journal said is just as much of a hardened socialist as Maduro was, and it's also a big supporter and backer of Maduro. Did that strike you that other government leaders weren't targeted, even those who are believed to have been part of whatever trafficking operations the government is accusing Maduro of organizing? Yes and no. I was surprised because what the Venezuelan opposition had been calling for was a 100-day plan where 14 of the kind of highest-level ranking members around Nicolas Maduro would be removed, that there would be like a security presence by international force to help kind of facilitate the entry of the duly elected leader,

Edmundo Gonzalez, who won the election in July of 2024. A lot of the commentary around Venezuela was this question, how is the president going to de-escalate from this? You have 10 to 13% of the entire U.S. Navy off the shore of Venezuela. How are they actually going to basically declare victory? And this seems to be an effort by them to have their cake and eat it too, which is they got Maduro, they got their man. They can check the box.

They aren't putting boots on the ground, you know, and now they got the oil. What is really, I think, concerning is it seems like, like they've thrown the Venezuelan opposition completely under the bus. And, you know, it's unclear to see how that will play out because they haven't articulated whether they're going to actually promote an electoral process or if they're just going to try to deal with, as I mentioned, Maduro Light. Delos Rodriguez actually has a reputation. I've met her, had a couple interactions with her.

She's probably the most effective administrator and bureaucrat of the bunch. And there was a report, I believe, in the Wall Street Journal where it said that the administration was very surprised and impressed by how she was able to increase oil output despite their oil embargo. So they're keeping a place to basically keep the lights on and keep the oil flowing. Yeah, it's interesting because the government is saying this was a law enforcement action. It originally looked like regime change, and that's how it sounded for the last couple of months. And that's how I'm sure people within the Venezuelan opposition took it to be. But now it seems it's entirely about oil. Oh, absolutely. It's absolutely about oil.

And you've seen statements by Senator Mark Warner, Senator Randy Kim, Ruben Gallegos, they've called this out because I think the authority the administration has used is a law enforcement authority to just go in and get their guy, execute a warrant, get this guy out. But, you know, this was a military action where they should actually have gone to Congress for authorization. So it's a question about does the President of the United States actually have this authority and he does not and should never have this authority. Is there any precedent in the U.S. for this kind of military action against a foreign government? I'm thinking of Manuel Noriega in Panama in 1989, who was never elected. he was a dictator. Is there any comparison there? There is in the sense that, like, it was a law enforcement action to go after a drug trafficker, but, you know, we didn't just grab him. We stayed there.

We also had a, we owned the canal at that point. It was under our control, and we had a huge military presence with over 25,000 Marines in the country. It was a huge undertaking, and that's not what this was. I think what's interesting here is perhaps, if you look at the Iraq analogy on this, and you just a comparison, I think maybe there's a lesson that the administration has learned, which is that the bathification in Iraq was a huge mistake. So here I think what they're trying to do is keep the institution of government running and trying to have their cake in either two by not getting into the country, but by trying to kind of run it from outside by imposing the oil blockade and sanctions.

I was joking that everybody in the United States is getting called back to the office, but we're teleworking the transition in Venezuela. I don't know how well that's going to actually fly. Maduro and his wife are expected in court today in the Southern District of New York. What charges are they facing? It's a narco-terrorism drug case, so they're accused of the possession of trafficking of machine guns and the trafficking of drugs, which is kind of interesting. If you compare it to a similar case, which is the former president of Honduras, Juan Orlando Hernandez,

similar charges, also in the Southern District of New York. If I recall that former Honduran president was pardoned. he was pardon. So I think in this case, it's, you know, each drug trafficker really depends. It just seems like the selective application of law enforcement. Now, I think it's really worth separating how America and Americans are handling this whole episode and how Venezuelans are. Because I know I've spoken to some folks who are from Venezuela, and I'm wondering if you have two, because a lot of people are celebrating. They are celebrating Maduro's exit and they are very hopeful about the future. So I'm wondering, one, what have you been hearing from folks in Venezuela? And two, what do you make of their hopefulness, their excitement, and what the future could look like? I think first of all that, the departure of Nicolas Maduro is a bipartisan issue. I think the debate here in the United States is about how to actually do that. Right.

So I think they were right to be hopeful on the day that Maduro was taken out. I think the rug got pulled out from under them after the Trump press conference where he basically, I think, through Maria Corina Machado under the bus. you have some Venezuelans now that are like, I think, shocked that the administration is doing this, even though I think Trump has been pretty clearly opening about oil inside of Venezuela and the payoff potentially for the United States. Then on the list of you have what we call Magazuelans, and those folks, I think, are continuing to delude themselves that this administration will eventually find a way to install Maria Corina Machado. You saw Diaz Ballard give a press conference, Congressman Diazbollart with Congressman Jimenez and Congresswoman Maria Vita Salazar, where they were adamant that Maria Corina Machado would be installed. So it's been an interesting break between Rubio, who's fundamentally a South Florida politician and, like, some of his, I think, closest political allies. And to me, I think the conclusion from that is that I think Rubio is a true believer. I think Rubio does want to put Maria Corina Machado in place.

I think Trump, on the other hand, this is my view. has basically constrained Rubio's ability to actually do this because he does not want to get stuck into this. And the outcome is going to be if this succeeds and there's a chance that like Rubio pulls us off, right? They have a transition. Everything works. There's no violence. I think there's a very low chance of that. Trump gets the victory. He gets the win. If this goes horribly sideways, then Rubio goes under the bus. And so I think Trump is in a great position and Rubio, I think, has to be able to deliver. What happens next in Venezuela? Yeah. So the first one, as I alluded to, I think is a managed transition, that's probably the best case scenario. The Venezuelan Constitution

requires that if the president has been removed, dies or is in the first half of his or her term, that they have to have in elections within 30 days. So U.S. pressure could lead to elections or a real transition process that starts. Power is shared or maybe handed off in a way that prevents kind of the revenge killings in the country from breaking apart. And Americans get fewer migrants at the border over time, less criminal flow, more stable energy markets. Scenario two, which seems like the one that we're in right now is, again, Delci Rodriguez becomes the public leader and the security forces and criminal networks stay in place, reforms are theater. And what Americans get out of that is continued crime and corruption, spillover, continued migration pressure in a Venezuela that stays unstable but is managed. The last, and I think a very likely scenario, it's the worst one, is this power struggle turns violent.

Armed groups expand. You have not just the military, but you have illegal armed groups all over that. country and pseudo-paramilitary groups. And the U.S. ends up getting pulled deeper in their involvement because it owns this. You know, they break it, you buy it. And so this, I think what Americans get here is a long and expensive foreign commitment, more regional instability. And frankly, like a bigger opening, strategic opening for China and others to play the we-do business. The U.S. does chaos card in the Americas. Juan, thank you so much again for joining me. Yeah, thanks for having me.

That was my conversation with Juan Sebastian Gonzalez, former National Security Council Senior Director for the Western Hemisphere under the Biden administration. We'll get to more of the news in a moment. But if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads.

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Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me. Nowadays special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to join DeleteMe.com slash Wad and use promo code Wad at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to join DeleteMe.com. slash wad and enter code wad at checkout. That's join deleteme.com slash wad, code wad. Here's what else we're following today. Head of lines. Rubio, I just heard him in your interview said they're doing what's good for the American people. If they want to do what's good for the

American people, it should not be some escapade in Venezuela. It should be focusing on lowering the cost of living. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer made clear he's bringing the affordability message into the new year in an interview Sunday on ABC's this week with George Stephanopoulos. Congressional reaction to the Trump administration's military action in Venezuela has basically split along party lines. Democrats acknowledged Maduro's presidency was illegitimate, but largely condemned the action as unauthorized and dangerous.

They warned it lacked congressional approval, violated international law, and risked escalating U.S. military involvement abroad. Republicans largely rallied behind the operation, accepting Trump's argument that the strike was justified as part of executing a U.S. arrest warrant for Nicholas Maduro. Ohio Republican Representative Jim Jordan defended the Trump administration to Dana Bash on CNN's State of the Union on Sunday. I trust Secretary Rubio. I trust President Trump in his making decisions that, again, are in the best interest

of the American people. And frankly, I trust our military. Stunning bravery. Later in Jordan's interview, to be fair, he was very skeptical about a president. Contrast the president's actions. what took place two days ago, what took place with, you know, Midnight Hammer when he stopped Iran. Contrast that with the previous administration. Contrast that with Joe Biden led a Chinese spy balloon fly clear across the country and then shot it down.

The top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Connecticut Democratic Representative Jim Himes, responded to Jordan's comments later in the show. He's being asked to explain an imperial adventure, right? I mean, you did a pretty good job. an imperial adventure from the guy who was going to be America first and not get into stupid wars. And his answer is, I trust the president, I trust the president, I trust the president. That is giving the game away because two-thirds of my Republican colleagues in the Congress wake up every single morning and say, what can I do today to prove my loyalty to the President of the United States?

And Jim Jordan, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, seems to be unaware that our whole system, our whole system, Dana, is set up to provide checks and balances, that the job of a member of Congress is to approach the president, regardless of that president's party, with skepticism. That ship sailed a while ago, Representative. Georgia Republican Representative Marjorie Taylor Green is officially resigning from Congress today. We'll remember the far-right lawmaker

for promoting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories about space lasers causing California wildfires, threatening violence against her Democratic colleagues, and spewing homophobic and transphobic hate. But in recent months, She has been one of the few congressional Republicans willing to criticize certain Trump administration policies. In a lengthy post on Twitter over the weekend, Green pointed out the hypocrisy of President Trump's decision to attack Venezuela and forcibly remove President Nicholas Maduro from office. Chief among her critiques is the fact that if this was all really about keeping fentanyl out of the U.S., it doesn't make sense to go after Venezuela, which is not actually a major source of fentanyl.

Green also said in her statement that she believes the Trump administration's main motivation for capturing Maduro is to gain control over Venezuela's oral reserves in order to then, quote, ensure stability for the next obvious regime change war in Iran. For all of Green's many, many, many faults, at least she's willing to point out that it's hard to put America first if you're also running Venezuela. On Sunday, freshly inaugurated New York City mayor, Zeranam Dani, told reporters that he spoke with President Trump to express his disapproval over the U.S. U.S. military's capture of Nicholas Maduro.

Maduro is now being held in a federal jail in Brooklyn. I called the president and spoke with him directly to register my opposition to this act and to make clear that it was an opposition based on being opposed to a pursuit of regime change, to the violation of federal international law, and a desire to see that be consistent each and every day. momdani also said that this attempted regime change will impact the quote tens of thousands of Venezuelans who call this city home and that his focus is on their safety the new mayor has been busy reversing the work of his predecessor eric adams momdani's first executive order revoked all

executive orders signed by adams after september 26th 2024 the day that the former mayor was indicted on federal criminal charges momdani explained the order by saying quote that was a date that marked a moment when many New Yorkers decided that politics held nothing for them but more of the same. And Turkish airline points. Don't forget those. I thought the easiest one would be, one of the easier ones would be Russia, Ukraine. It's not. And they both have done some pretty bad things. That was President Trump speaking to reporters on Saturday, admitting that this whole international diplomacy thing is kind of hard.

He met with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky at Maralago late last month to discuss a 20-point peace plan proposed by Ukraine, which Zelensky later said the two sides are mostly in agreement on. This week, Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials are meeting in Paris with representatives from Europe and the U.S. to discuss security guarantees from the peace plan. Those guarantees include the deployment of European-led troops to Ukraine as well as the U.S. serving as a, quote, backstop in the event that Russia attacks Ukraine in the future. Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said last month that Russia would not accept a peace plan that allows for European troops in Ukraine. Ahead of this week's security talks, Zelensky also expressed some support for the Trump administration's capture of Nicholas Maduro, telling reporters on Saturday, quote, if dictators can be dealt with in this way, then the United States of America knows what it should do next. Indeed. And that's the news. That's all for today.

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like me, what a day is also a child. a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Jane Koston. And in case you're wondering, Elon Musk, who owns Twitter, responded to the mass posting of non-consensual sexualized images by a chatbot on its own website by posting the laugh-cry emoji. Water Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Four and Chris Alport. Our producer is Caitlin Plummer. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra.

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