What A Day - Trump, Guilty As Charged. Now What?

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Guilty, guilty, guilty. A Manhattan jury on Thursday found former President Donald Trump guilty on all 34 felony charges in his criminal hush-money trial. Trump was accused of falsifying business records in a scheme to cover up payments he made to the adult film star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 election. The verdict makes Trump the first U.S. president to be tried and convicted of felony crimes. Diana Florence, a former federal prosecutor in the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office, explains what’s next for Trump now that he’s a convicted felon. Pod Save America co-host Dan Pfeiffer weighs in on what the verdict means for both Trump and President Joe Biden’s campaigns.Show Notes:Dan Pfeiffer's newsletter - The Message Box-  www.messageboxnews.comWhat A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcastFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday

it's friday may 31st i'm treyville anderson and i'm priyanka arabindi and this is what a day the show where we are popping bottles to celebrate a truly historic win we did it joe we did it it was not politically motivated but we we did, in fact, do a show. The verdict is in. Okay. Count one is guilty. That is a felony charge. Count one, falsifying business records.

Count two, also guilty, falsifying business records in the first degree. Count three, guilty, falsifying business records in the first degree. Count three, guilty, falsifying business records in the first degree. Count four, guilty, that's another felony charge, falsifying business records. Count nine, guilty. Count ten, guilty. Count eleven, guilty. Count twelve, guilty. Count thirteen, guilty.

Count fourteen, guilty. We are now 24 counts in, all guilty from inside. This is what we are hearing from our producers. Up to 26. Guilty. Count 33. Guilty. Count 34. Guilty. That is 34 felony counts here. All guilty verdicts. Guilty, guilty, and more guilty, Priyanka. Truly, what a day indeed.

Watching the tally keep climbing with every single count, what a moment. We'll never forget it for the rest of my life. What a moment. A Manhattan jury found former President Donald Trump guilty on all 34 felony charges in his criminal hush money trial. He was accused of falsifying business records in a scheme to cover up payments he made to the adult film star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 election. The verdict came late Thursday, a lot faster than some were expecting. The jurors deliberated for less than two full days in one of the most high-profile criminal cases ever, and like you already mentioned, a historic case as the first criminal case against a former U.S. president.

And coming out of the courtroom just after the verdict, you know Trump had plenty of the same old, same old to say. He attacked the trial judge, Justice Juan Merchanchan and complained about the case being unfair. This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is going to be November 5th by the people. And they know what happened here and everybody knows what happened here. All right, area man, you can pipe down. We are enjoying this moment. We don't need any of that. And listen, he wants to talk about November 5th. You know what I want to talk about? I want to talk about July 11th, because that is when he's getting sentenced for all these 34 felony counts. So we'll keep it moving until then. Anyways, Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's office brought the case. What was DA Bragg's reaction

to the verdict? Was he also out there popping bottles like us? Well, Bragg appraised the verdict, of course, but you know, he kept it pretty professional. He said that he was just doing his job. Here he is speaking during a press conference. While this defendant may be unlike any other in American history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes to the courtroom doors, by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favor. And I mean, this is just momentous, not only because of what we've seen here. This is a former president, current presidential candidate convicted of not one, but 34 felony counts. I feel like for at least the last decade, there's been so much wrongdoing. We've seen so many crazy off the wall, just wrong things that have gone unrecognized, unpunished. It feels like

people have gotten away with it for so long, specifically Donald Trump. And yesterday we got just a small amount of justice and that felt good. But what happens next here? Trump is a convicted felon now, but he's also still the Republican Party's presumptive nominee for president. So where do we go from here? Yes, inquiring minds definitely want to know. So I spoke with Diana Florence. She's a former federal prosecutor in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. And I started by asking her whether she was surprised by the verdict. I'm not surprised that the verdict

was a complete verdict, meaning that it was consistent across 34 accounts, because the 34 accounts that we're talking about are all consistent, meaning that if you believe that there was a hush money scheme and a decision to cover it up, it wouldn't really make sense to convict on the first eight, but not the next 26. So that's not a surprise to me. But the jury showed by asking right away for the testimony about the meeting at Trump Tower with AMI and David Pecker and Michael Cohen, that they were zeroing in right on the issues. You noticed that there was no Stormy Daniels, there was no Hope Hicks. It was literally the issues at hand. And I think to me, what this says is that, you know, for all the failings of, you know, our government, our country, our jury system

is strong. I mean, the jury got it, they focused, and they came together and made a decision. So I think this is actually a great day for democracy in America. So now the expectation, of course, is that Trump's team will appeal this verdict. He basically said as much outside of the courtroom. How soon can he appeal it? And what would that process look like? So it is the least surprising thing that they said that they would appeal. There is virtually not a defendant that wouldn't appeal if they go to trial. The appeals that don't happen are the ones when they plead guilty. In terms of the timing, the appeal can't start,

though, until the former president is actually sentenced. So we are seeing that the sentencing is currently scheduled for July 11th. But before I ask you about that, I want to ask a little bit more about the verdict. There were a lot of concerns over whether Trump's former fixer turned star witness for the prosecution, Michael Cohen, would ultimately sink the district attorney's office case because of his past criminal history, a long list of documented lies. What do you think was the key to the prosecution actually winning the case here? The key here is the key in every other similar white collar case. And I think I wanted to sort of stress that as much as there's a lot of things that are extraordinary about this case, particularly starting with the defendant, who he

is, and the fact that he's a former president running for president. At the end of the day, though, what it comes down to is cooperating witnesses who are often part of this scheme are very common, especially in white-collar cases. And the key to getting a conviction in this case and in any case is corroboration. And that is why, as I mentioned in my previous discussion of the jury notes, the jury zoned in immediately in the meeting and the testimony of David Packer talking about that meeting. There were also text messages, there were tweets, there were bank records. That's the key to getting convictions in white-collar

cases because, of course, the cooperating witness is going to be flawed. And Michael Cohen, if you look up in the dictionary, is the epitome of the flawed cooperating witness. Talk to us a bit about what we can expect at sentencing and who will be making that decision. So let's talk about what's going to happen between now and sentencing, because that's actually relevant to the question you just asked. So now that he's been released on his own recognizance, just bail conditions were continued that Donald Trump doesn't have to go into jail. The next thing that was going to happen now that he's been released is that Donald Trump, like every other convicted defendant,

they need to go and be interviewed by the Department of Probation. And that interview, some of it is pedigree information, where you're born, where you live currently, whether you have kids, those kind of things. But ultimately, it comes down to then whether or not he will accept responsibility, continue to deny. And oftentimes, when defendants are combative or come up with a very elaborate, you know, sort of they rant, if you will. And certainly that's worked well for Trump on the campaign trail. That's not going to work well with the probation department. Why that's important is that probation officer after that interview will write up a report and he will, in fact, make a recommendation as to whether or not the sentence should be incarceratory, meaning prison, whether it should be community service,

whether it should be some combination. And ultimately, the judge will make that determination. It is strictly in the hands of the judge. And now that we're post-conviction, everything about what's happened at this trial, including Trump's demeanor and the way he's treated witnesses, the way he's treated the parties, the judge is going to take all of that into account. And ultimately, it will be Judge Mershon's decision whether or not to send the president, the former president, I should say, to prison. And how likely, you know, based on your experience, based on your understanding, is that to happen here that he goes to prison for, you know, whatever amount of time?

I mean, who knows, right? Ultimately, it's up to the judge. I will say, and I've been on record, if I were the prosecutor in this case, I would absolutely ask for state incarceration, which means more than a year in jail. Because I think there is so much here that is unprecedented, but also it is perhaps the highest profile case in American history. So I do think that given not only the strength of the evidence at trial, but also the defendant's demeanor and acceptance of responsibility, i.e. very disrespectful of the court and also very dismissive and disrespectful of the charges, the process, I would think the judge would sentence him. Now, does that mean that Donald Trump is entering either Rikers Island or the downstate correctional facility on July 11th? No, it does not. I think the likelihood of Donald Trump serving any time whatsoever before the midterm elections of, you know, 2026 or even perhaps the next presidential election in 2028 is most unlikely that he will be serving anything because the appeals process is going to take a long, long time. That was my conversation with former New York federal prosecutor Diana

Florence. Yeah, she says it'll be a long time till we see anything. But listen, we've already waited a long time. We are in it. Okay. Long haul. Okay. We will be patient. It's fine. Yes. Thank you so much for that, Trayvon. After the break, we'll discuss the verdict's political implications with Pod Save America's Dan Pfeiffer. If you are enjoying our show, please make sure to subscribe and to share it with your friends. We'll be right back after some ads. And we are back. So Priyanka, I know a lot of us are wondering, what does this verdict mean in the bigger picture for 2024? There's obviously still an election on November 5th.

Yeah, and I mean, Donald Trump is still arguably the frontrunner in that election as of now. But, you know, there are all these hypotheticals of what the November elections will look like now, where Trump will be, how this is going to impact voters' behaviors and preferences. And there's really no one better to ask about all of this than Dan Pfeiffer. He is a good friend of the pod and co-host of Pod Save America. I called him up earlier and started by asking him what it means for the election now that Trump is a convicted felon. There's been this growing sense that it's not going to matter that much, right? You keep seeing these polls that say 75%, 80% of voters say they don't care. One way or the other, what happens, right?

And then you had a poll out from Marist today, which is a very high-quality pollster, which showed that there would be equal numbers of voters, right? There would be like 25% of voters who would be less likely to vote for Trump if he was convicted, and 27% of voters who would be more likely to vote for him if he was convicted, which is a crazy statement, right? I mean, obviously, those are Trump voters already, right? It's not like they were previously undecided. They're like, you know, I'm really kind of like Biden's climate change policies, but I'm really, he just hasn't been done enough crimes yet. So like, what's Trump going to give me, right? So that's just like pure trolling. But what I think those polls are missing is that we have seen in all the polls, dating

back a year now, that there is a swath of voters who are deeply uncomfortable with sending a convicted felon to the White House. And there was a CNN poll back in April where they showed that people who were told the pollsters they were going to support Trump said they would reconsider their support if Trump was convicted of a crime. And CNN took a deep look at that 24% of voters, and they were younger than the average Trump voter, they were more diverse than the average Trump voter, and they were more likely to believe that the 2020 election was legitimate. And so these are very gettable voters. Many of

them probably voted for Haley in the primary. This is an existential risk to Trump's campaign if Democrats can take advantage of it. So what are the ways that you think that this verdict changes the campaign strategy, not only for the Trump campaign, but for the Biden campaign as well? Well, I think for the Biden folks is they're going to have to find a way to talk about this in constructive ways, because they have avoided at every opportunity saying a single word about any of Trump's crimes. They talked about him trying to overturn the election, but not the January 6th case in the D.C. federal court. They have not talked about him trying to overturn the election, but not the January 6th case in the D.C. federal court. They have not talked about him hoarding classified secrets. They haven't talked

at all about the Manhattan trial where Donald Trump was just convicted. And so now they have to talk about it and they can talk about it. And I think one way to do it is to explain a few things. One is that Donald Trump was convicted by a jury of his peers. That jury was selected with the input and advice from Donald Trump's attorneys. This is not the deep state or the Biden DOJ. This is a jury of Donald Trump's peers. And I think the point that Donald Trump's lawyers signed off on this group of people is incredibly important. Second is to remind people that no one is above the law, right?

Not even a former president. The rules apply to everyone. That is at core of the idea of what this country doesn't often stand for, but absolutely should. And Donald Trump has believed his whole life the rules don't apply to him. And this is evidence that at times they do. And the third point here is to put this and explain why this crime mattered. Because it's not just that he falsified business records to cover up a hush money payment to an adult film star with whom he had an extramarital affair. He was convicted of illegally interfering in the election, which is the ultimate irony, given how Donald Trump lies about the 2020 election being rigged. And here,

now he's been found guilty of trying to rig the 2016 election. How much do you think the sentencing that's actually going to happen on July 11th, how much do you think that will matter in shaping voter behavior or perception, especially as we get closer to the actual election? We don't know what the sentence will be. It could be jail time. It could be a fine. It could be house arrest.

It could be probation. All those things could be held in abeyance during an appeal. The sentencing, I think, is going to be unless it actually does constrict his movement's ability to campaign. And certainly if it sends him to prison, that's a gigantic deal. But absent that, I think the bigger thing is the former president being found guilty of these crimes and being a convicted felon. And just taking a step back from all of this, you know, how are you personally thinking about the magnitude of what we just saw in this conviction

and what it means for all of us going forward? Yeah, it's truly, this is a huge moment in American history. It's one that we will look back on. It's probably in some ways a hinge moment for American history, right? Like if Donald Trump is elected to the White House, like what will that say? It's a crime tied to interfering in election and then we're going to elect that same person,

you know, eight years later is nuts. And I think, I just, I was saying this to John as we were recording Pod Save America on Thursday night is this is just one of those moments where it's just you have to step back and just recognize the absolutely consequential times we're living in and what it could possibly mean. Totally. And just also to hammer home, we talked about this a little bit earlier. But how would you kind of talk to those people nervous that this doesn't matter or this won't matter?

What would you tell them? For organizers and activists and voters who care deeply about politics, this should be one of the most exciting and inspiring elections of our time. And it's not necessarily because of the two people are running or about Joe Biden, who I think has been a great president. It's one about the stakes. But also, the other reason that it should be inspiring is, it's going to be incredibly close. It's going to likely be decided by less than 100,000 people spread across a handful of states. It's not a question of whether some group of Trump voters

and rule Wisconsin are going to turn out or not. It's whether we're going to be able to convince our friends to vote for Joe Biden, instead of staying on the couch or voting for a third party candidate. And that is, we have agency and power to actually make a difference here in a way in which I don't really remember in any election since maybe 2008, right? We actually can control this and we know the people who our targets are and how to go get them. And so we just have to go do the work. That was my conversation with Dan Pfeiffer, co-host of Pod Save America. You can find more of Dan's work in his phenomenal newsletter, The Message Box. One more thing before we go. We all make bad decisions sometimes, and although you probably have a group chat with your friends to dissect what is going on in your life, understanding the

nightmare fuel that is Supreme Court decisions might require a law degree, or perhaps three. So let strict scrutiny be your guide this decision season. From abortion bans to Trump trials, law professors and hosts Melissa Murray, Kate Shaw, and Leah Lippman decode the drama and break down

everything you need to know and keep you sane in the process. New episodes release every Monday wherever you get your podcasts, and now they are on YouTube. Plus, keep an eye out for bonuses whenever SCOTUS tries to set the nation back 60 years. I'm sure the ladies are working overtime over there. That is all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, give a round of applause to the jurors for fulfilling their civic duty, and tell your

friends to listen. And if you are into reading and not just all of Trump's 34 guilty verdicts like me, what a day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Priyanka Arabindi. I'm Trevelle Anderson. And tell us what you think Trump's sentence should be. I think a lifetime folding clothing out of Forever 21 perhaps fits the crime here.

I don't know. I didn't know that folding clothes at Forever 21 was that bad, Priyanka. Been probably a decade since I've been inside one, but the trauma will last me a lifetime. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Bill Lance. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Natalie Bettendorf. We had production help today from Michelle Alloy, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our showrunner is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrian Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gilliard and Kashaka.