What A Day - Were There Any Winners In The Government Shutdown?

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

The longest government shutdown in American history ended last week, thanks to 8 Senate Democrats giving up the fight to extend Affordable Care Act subsidies. The infighting between Democrats hasn't stopped since. But what if Democrats' caving was actually a good thing? Tim Miller of the Bulwark joins the show to discuss how the Democrats may be in a prime strategic position as Republicans deal with scandals, skyrocketing costs of living and healthcare, and several MAGA faithful turning on Trump.And in headlines: President Trump sends federal agents to Charlotte, North Carolina, as part of his ongoing immigration crackdown, Marjorie Taylor Greene continues feuding with Trump, and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy announces a new gas deal with Greece.Show Notes:Check out The Bulwark – www.thebulwark.com/Call Congress – 202-224-3121Subscribe to the What A Day Newsletter – https://tinyurl.com/3kk4nyz8What A Day – YouTube – https://www.youtube.com/@whatadaypodcastFollow us on Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/crookedmedia/For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/whataday Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's Monday, November 17th. I'm Jane Koston, and this is what a day. The show that had some questions for a dog in Shillington, Pennsylvania, who appears to have accidentally shot its owner in the back last week when his owner put a shotgun on a bed while cleaning it. Or maybe not so accidentally. According to police, quote, it looks like it was an accident, but it's still being investigated. Is anyone listening to the show a dog attorney? On today's show, Charlotte, North Carolina is the Trump administration's latest target in the crackdown on illegal immigration. And President Donald Trump makes his breakup with Georgia Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green Public.

But let's start with the Democratic Party. The longest government shutdown in American history ended on Wednesday after eight Senate Democrats agreed to a budget package. And the infighting between Democrats who wanted to keep fighting for extended. Affordable Care Act subsidies and Democrats who wanted to end the shutdown hasn't stopped since. And much of the blame for the end of the shutdown, as in Democrats caving, has landed on Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. Here's Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy discussing Schumer with ABC's Jonathan Carl on Sunday. Chuck Schumer's taken a lot of heat for this. Do you still have confidence in him as the Democratic leader? And do you think he will still be the Democratic

leader after the midterms? Well, we can't continue to operate like this in the Democratic Senate. This is not the first time that a small group of Democrats have crossed over to support Republican measures that give Donald Trump more power. So I've been candid with him and with my colleagues that Democrats are going to lose this democracy if we continue to allow Republicans to cleave off 10 or 12 or 15 of us. So we've got some hard conversations as a caucus moving forward. We can't continue to be split like this or we won't save our democracy. So certainly when we return to Washington next week, Senator Schumer is going to have to explain to us how we're going to run the caucus differently. Woof. But here's my question. What if Democrats ending the shutdown was actually good?

That's the argument my guest for today's episode, the writer and podcaster Tim Miller, has been making. And I think the bulwark writer has a point. Because while Democrats are yelling at Chuck Schumer, the GOP isn't a mess of its own making. While President Trump has been building ballrooms and bombing alleged drugboats without congressional authorization, the cost of living, including the cost of health care, has been skyrocketing. Americans are noticing. Some Republicans are starting to back away from the White House, and key members of the administration have no answer beyond Joe Biden. Exhibit. Here's ABC's Jonathan Carl speaking to Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council on Sunday. They're discussing the president's recent claims that Americans will be enjoying a cheaper Thanksgiving dinner this year.

The president claims that Thanksgiving costs are down 25%. I mean, does he know that's not true? Well, if you look at Walmart and the few places that put out their prices of Thanksgiving baskets. I got to stop because the Walmart comparisons like not. I mean, Walmart had a Thanksgiving package last year. They've got a Thanksgiving package this year. The one this year contains much less than what? the one last year took.

That's why the price is less. But Hassett didn't take the actual cost of actual groceries or smaller grocery packages for a major American holiday for an answer because of the previous administration. You know, I really don't understand where you're going in the sense that Joe Biden gave us, Joe Biden gave us 20% inflation. He's not president, Donald Trump's president.

No, no. Great. So here's my conversation with Tim Miller of the Bullwork on who really won the shutdown and what Democrats should do next. Tim Miller, welcome back to Water Day. what up jane good to be back so you had a medium warm pot take on the government shutdown namely that democrats won it two questions why and how uh great questions i think about this kind of like uh you know a poker game that they're playing and um the democrats went into the shutdown

with like basically no political power and no chips Donald Trump was running rough shot over the government and the democrat said okay well this is the one this is like we're going all in this is our one play that we have to make here. It was a pretty risky gamble. Some people got into this thinking the end game was going to be something to the effect of like Donald Trump has been slayed or everyone gets free health care now. And it's like neither of those things were actually on the table as possibilities for outcomes. Now we're looking at it here, I guess a week or so after they folded. Donald Trump's in his worst political position. He's been in a long time. He has embroiled in an Epstein scandal. And meanwhile, people's lives got tangibly better. Like,

were people that were going to lose their stamp funding over this fight. And there were people that got fired that are giving their jobs back, who were rift from the government. Democrats are in stronger political position. They walked away from the table. For me, that was a win. Wasn't amazing. Donald Trump is still the president. Republicans still control everything. But it was a very small win. And I think that additional fighting was not going to yield any better of her results than they got. So now that the shutdown is over, we're still in the midst of Democrat on Democrat squabbling, which is basically been just all Democrats do. They love a squabble. But I do agree with you that, like, this administration was not going to be like, okay, okay, we'll extend the Affordable

Care Act subsidies. Like, this administration was great. Russell vote is going to cancel everything and fire everybody. So all of this is to say, what do Democrats need to do right now to come together in this moment? Look, I guess I just will start this by saying, like, I agree with people that are like, I want Democrats to fight harder. I'm with you. Like, a little bit of squabbling is okay. What I don't think is useful is just, like, petty whining constantly and losing focus on, like, the actual threat.

And so, like, one example of that over the weekend, I saw that Gene Chaheen was speaking at some New Hampshire Democratic function, and she's getting heckled and shouted down. Now, like, Jean Cheneh is retiring. Okay, like, she's a retiring senator, and that is an open seat. next year that is critical Democrats win. I just think that if you're of the camp that you're like, I want Democrats to fight harder. And I think it's really important to take down the Republicans because they're so bad and scary and authoritarian, then you should heckle the Republicans in New Hampshire. Like, heckling a retiring senator might make you feel good and might meet some of your emotional needs,

which is okay. I have emotional needs to yell at people. I just do that on X, you know? And so I think that the Democrats should unite around the fact that they gave Donald Trump an opportunity to lower people's health care costs. He refused to do it. Everybody's pissed about how much everything is costing and how he hasn't solved the affordability crisis. People are pissed about the high cost and low quality of their health care. People are pissed about the fact that Donald Trump is covering up his involvement with Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files. And Democrats should talk about that a lot and use the what seems. to be a little bit of momentum from the elections a couple weeks ago and from this fight and from

Epstein and use that momentum to continue to put pressure on Donald Trump so that he has less political power and less ability to do the authoritarian stuff he wants to do. You argued also that the end of the shutdown led to Democrats in the House Oversight Committee releasing more of Epstein's correspondence, including emails that referenced President Trump. Lots of emails referencing President Trump. Where do you think Democrats should go next on the Epstein investigation and why? Yeah. Well, look, I mean, you're starting to see, like, a lot of Republicans feel the pressure to fold on this as more information has come out with these subpoenaed files from the Epstein State that came from the Oversight Committee in the House. And so I think that the Democrats should really be turning their attention to John Thune and putting pressure on Republicans of the Senate and taking, there's one of my senators from Louisiana who's basically useless. John Kennedy, as basically implied that he thinks that. they should be released. This has not been somebody that has broken from Trump, really, at all.

And so I think that the Democrat should be putting pressure on the Senate to do that. Who knows what is in that material? And then I think they need to be preparing for hopefully winning that house back. Those House races are extremely important. This redistricting fight is extremely important because if they take back the Gabel next year and they have a speaker and they control the House Oversight Committee, then they can start subpoenaing people themselves to come testify on this. In February, March, there was this whole vibe shift thing going on, especially, I think, partly a media creation, but partly a real thing that made it seem as if Trump was some unstoppable force because of a 1.5% victory in the popular vote. And now it feels to me, like if you're seeing all the fighting going on among Republicans over like anti-Semitism and racism and like the future of the party in America first, it feels like the wheels are starting to come off the MAGA Express. How should those of us who want the wheels to come off the MAGA Express, how should we respond to that?

Just a modicum of happiness is allowed in this world, I guess. Look, this goes back to my original point about how I think spun correctly, talked about correctly, like the Democrats, I gained some modest ground politically with the shutdown fight, and they should pocket those winnings and move on to the next battle, which now is Epstein, and there'll be another battle after that. And part of the reason for that is that Donald Trump this year has been able to do a lot of the stuff that he's done because of that vibe shift, right? Like, it isn't, it wasn't like they had overwhelming votes to pass a lot of new laws that gave Donald Trump new powers. It's like Donald Trump asserted that he had powers.

He bullied universities. He bullied law firms. He bullied media companies. And a lot of them were folding because there was this sense in the world that, like, Trump was ascendant, and he was going to use his powers to go after his foes, and so it's best to just get on board. If that shift changes, and if people start to think, oh, man, this guy's like 36% in the polls, he's having defections from his own side, whether that be Marjorie Taylor Green or some people

in the more of the MAGA media space. And wait a minute, like Democrats might be in charge of the House and have subpoena power next year and be able to subpoena me and my company. there's like a lot of things out there in the world that start to change right like people start to get a lot more courage and like you see it in various little ways like we're seeing a little bit in this redistricting fight we're like in ohio and indiana some of these republican states like looked at that election a couple weeks ago and we're like wait a minute i don't want to redistrict my seat to be from a seat that i won last time by 15 to being a seat that i won by eight you know because i'm at lose now i don't know if i want to do this and attitude shift we haven't seen yet that I would like to see is maybe people that are doing illegal stuff on behalf of the Department of Homeland Security and on behalf of the Trump administration might start to think, wait a minute, there will be other people in power at some point in the future. Maybe I shouldn't do this illegal stuff on behalf of a lame duck flailing president.

And so, you know, to me, that is why, like, the top goal, if you're a Democrat, should not be like trying to pre-fight the 28 primary right now because there'll be plenty of time for that in late 2027. and instead try to continue to put political pressure on Donald Trump in areas where he is weak, like the economy, like the cost of health care, like Epstein, so that potentially he can see his numbers continue to erode more. Tim, as always, thank you for joining me.

Anytime, Jane. That was my conversation with the bulwarks Tim Miller. We'll link to his work in the show notes. We'll get to more of the news in the moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube and share with your friends. More to come after some ads.

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The president and I are united. We should all be united about that. Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy says he's, quote, in communication with the White House about a plan to make health care more affordable. Great. So now we've gone from concepts of a plan to communication about a plan. Now that the government shutdown is over, Republicans say they'll negotiate with Democrats on whether to extend COVID-era tax credits that help tens of millions of Americans afford

health care. But coming to an agreement before the subsidies expire at the end of the year will be difficult. Last week, President Trump said that instead of paying insurance companies, he wants the money to, quote, be paid directly to the people of our country. country so that they can buy their own health care, which, if you think about that for 10 seconds, is stupid. Cassidy gave that idea a little more context in an interview with Face the Nation on CBS that aired on Sunday. The president is proposing that we take the $26 billion that would be going to insurance

companies if we just do a straight-out extension. And by the way, 20% of that $26 billion, 20% will go for profit and administrative overhead, give it directly to the American people in an account in which 100% of the money is used for them to purchase health care on their own terms. Sure. New Hampshire Democratic Senator Gene Chaheen told Face the Nation that while implementing significant changes in the first year will be hard, Democrats need to work with the Republican colleagues on finding a health care resolution. It should be a bill to extend those premium tax credits because, as everybody has talked about, there is real urgency to get this done. And if we don't address it, then people are going to see huge rate increases.

So we can work together. We can extend the credits, but we probably can't implement significant reforms that Senator Cassidy was talking about in the time frame that we've got. Shaheen was one of eight Senate Democrats that sided with Republicans in the vote to allow the Senate to move forward with reopening the government. The Senate is set to vote in mid-December on extending the enhanced tax credits. Department of Homeland Security officials confirm that federal agents have descended on Charlotte, North Carolina as part of President Trump's crackdown on illegal immigration. In a post on Twitter, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol commander Gregory Bovino said that at least 81 people

had been arrested in the city on Saturday, allegedly, on a combination of significant criminal and immigration history. Defending the action, Assistant Homeland Security Secretary Trisha McLaughlin said in a statement, quote, we are surging DHS law enforcement to Charlotte to ensure Americans are safe and public safety threats are removed. Yet, crime is down in the city this year through August, compared with the same months in 2024, according to the consulting firm, A.H. Danalytics. But President Trump's administration has seized upon the fatal stabbing of Ukrainian refugee Arena Zarutzka on a Charlotte light rail train to argue that Democratic-led cities failed to protect residents. A man with a lengthy criminal record, who was, it should be noted, not an image. has been charged with a woman's murder. CBS reports that New Orleans is next on Trump's list,

with up to 200 federal agents expected to be deployed there. Only a few months ago, Georgia congressman, Marjorie Taylor Green, and President Trump were politically inseparable. Here's Trump praising her at a White House event back in March of this year. A quiet woman, but she, underneath that quiet facade, she's a tiger. Marjorie Taylor Green. Highly respected woman, I'd tell you. Thanks, Marjor.

Great woman. Quiet? But lately, that highly respected tiger has changed her stripes, and she is not happy with the president. Green has criticized Trump's foreign policy focus, handling of health care, and pushed for more Epstein files to be released. And her criticism seems to have gotten under his very, very, very thin skin. Trump took the true social on Saturday to threaten her with the possibility of being present. I married and labeled her, quote, Marjorie Trader Green. Here she is responding to the traitor remark on CNN's State of the Union on Sunday.

The most hurtful thing he said, which is absolutely untrue, is he called me a traitor. And that is so extremely wrong. And those are the types of words used that can radicalize people against me and put my life in danger. CNN's Dana Bash pushed Green on her own. rich history of politically charged rhetoric, and MTG did something unheard of in MAGA circles. Dana, I think that's fair criticism. And I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. She humbly apologized? Is that allowed? Where is Marjorie Taylor Green and what is the deep state done with her? Green has recently said a different,

more conciliatory tone. That softer rhetoric sparked speculation that she might be eyeing a presidential run. A rumor her boyfriend, conservative reporter Brian Glenn, later denied. So Green's new comments are par for the course. A notably Brown course, according to Trump, who called her on true social, quote, Marjorie Taylor Brown, because, quote, green grass turns brown when it begins to rot. And they say he's lost his touch. That was Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy, announcing that his government has prepared a new gas deal with Greece. The deal, signed on Sunday, is part of a strategy to keep Ukraine's energy grid afloat as

Russian strikes threaten winter supplies. Zelensky said Ukraine will import natural gas from Greece's winter to replace energy production lost to Russian strikes. Greece is Zelensky's first stop in a multi-nation European tour to bolster Ukraine's energy security and deepen its defense ties. The Greek deal creates a new supply route and helps cover over $2 billion in winter gas imports, financed through Ukrainian funds and EU-backed loans. Zelensky heads to France and Spain next for talks on strengthening Ukraine's air defenses, combat aviation, and wider security cooperation. Kiv is also pursuing long-term energy agreements with Poland and

Azerbaijan. Ukraine's security chief, Rustim Umarov, said he's been in talks with help from Turkey and the UAE to restart prisoner exchange negotiations with Russia to bring 1,200 prisoners home. He said that as a result of the talks, the relevant parties agreed to activate the Istanbul agreements, a 2022 deal that sets the rules for large, organized prisoner swaps. Keeve hopes to return the captives home by the holidays. Nearly 6,000 Ukrainians have been freed in earlier swaps. And that's the news. That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review.

Contemplate the convicted scammer who may not have just scammed J.P. Morgan for $175 million, but also gotten the massive bank to pay for fancy meals and skin care products while the federal government was trying her for fraud and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading, and not just about Charlie Javis, whose fraudulent startup was purchased by J.P. Morgan before the bank realized her customers were largely fake. But during her trial, she won a ruling requiring J.P. Morgan to pay her legal fees, which costs something to the tune of $60 million. Like me, Whataday is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at cricket.com slash subscribe. I'm Jane Koston.

And honestly, if you're that good at scamming, you'd probably be really good at doing the job you were faking in the first place. What a Day is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Emily Four and Chris Alport. Our video editor is Joseph Dutra. Our video producer is Johanna Case. We had a production help today from Greg Walters, Matt Bird,

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