What Now? with Trevor Noah - Colin Kaepernick: The NFL Tried to Buy My Silence

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Colin Kaepernick tells the parts he's never told: what NFL owners said in the room, the offer made while he was being blackballed — and the Jay-Z call that never happened.In this episode of What Now?, Colin sits with Trevor and Eugene for the full story: adopted into a white family in Turlock, the hair that became an identity, the backup who took a team to the Super Bowl in his 10th start — and the protest that cost him everything. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We need a black face to put out in front. And they tried that with the Players Coalition. That wasn't successful. And Jay-Z was the 2.0 version of that, in my opinion. We're going to continue blackballing you, but will you be the face of our social justice initiatives? And they offered this to me as well as Eric Reed. And there was a nice price tag associated with that.

I can imagine. Saw Jay-Z wear my jersey on SNL. So I had tried to reach out to him previously In part to say thank you at that point for the support Right And wouldn't take a call, wouldn't take a meeting Which I'm all good like It's strange but okay

Hey I want to ask you like Why weren't you staying for the Star-Spangled Banner And Give him full explanation why I'm doing it. Systemic oppression. What black people have faced. What we're seeing right now

and police killing black people. And I remember he is like, you know what comes with this, right? This is What Now with Trevor Noah. It makes you feel a kind of way, man. It makes you feel a kind of way. But call it, man.

Thank you, man. Thanks for being in, brother. Oh, of course. This is crazy. I haven't seen you in social. A long time. You see, now we're in it. I'm in it now. I'm in it.

It's funny because we would never say, of course. Never. Of course. South Africans, Africans would never say, of course. You said welcome and he was like, of course. Then I'm like, God, it's not of course. There's no guarantee that you would be here, man. This is a big deal for us, man.

This is a big day for us. Of course I'm going to show up for you. Nah, man, I appreciate it. No, man, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Now, man, for real. This is like, you know,

there are some things that happen in life. It's funny. So Tracy Ellis Ross was doing her first show on Broadway, like ever. Someone said to me, yo, Tracy's doing her first show on Broadway. I said, that's not possible. Can't be her first, can't be her debut on Broadway. It was. It was something I always assumed that it had happened because of how natural it seemed to me.

Right. Colin Kaepernick writing a book about his life, I was like, wait, another one? That's exactly what I thought. No, genuinely. My brain went, I thought he wrote one. And then I realized you're just somebody who's been in the public eye scrutinized at a level

that few human beings will ever experience in their lives, criticized, complimented, watched, observed, dissected, interpreted, misinterpreted. But I'm talking about on a global scale for a period of time that really most people will never truly understand. And it made me feel like I did read your life story, but now that you have written it, I'm like, oh, we don't know you.

It, I would say, it's fascinating for me because the number of conversations that have with people that initially are like, oh, yeah, like, I know all about you, I know your story. And my immediate reaction is like, you know a small piece of it. Yeah. You know the public piece of it. But even a lot of the public pieces that are out there, a lot of those are misinformation. A lot of those aren't factually accurate. So it's an interesting experience for me in talking with people because I feel like constantly I'm talking to people and they're getting a new version of me from what they're. their perception was. Right, right, right, right, right. Which is like a, that feels like a unique

experience. Is that, is that hard for you? Is it frustrating? How does it feel when people think they know about how you grew up? They think they knew what it was like, you know, for you being raised by white parents. They think they knew what it was like for you, you know, joining the NFL. They think they know what it was like for you, you know, almost getting into baseball, but then not. They think they know what it was like playing at the 49ers. They think they know what it was like when you were kneeling for the anthem. They think they know what your romantic relationship has been like. They think they know.

How does that make you feel about interacting with people when they all have a preconceived notion of you? It gives me a greater appreciation for people who come in curious. Oh, damn, that's nice. That people that come in are like, yeah, I've heard what's out there, but like, can you share insight on X? or why, that really draws me in because I'm like, oh, this is different versus the conversations of, oh, yeah, I know these things.

Yeah. It's like, great. That's kind of like knowing the news. Like, you know what's out there. You don't actually know the depth behind what's actually happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very true. And for me, I kind of look at that as like, one, I appreciate that people were invested in that way.

that they feel like they know that much of me. At the same time, I love the opportunity to be able to have those conversations and have people step back and be like, oh, that's very different than what my perception was. That's rare, though. I'm actually glad you said that because it makes my question very easy to ask now.

Being raised by two white parents, how do they deal with your afro? At which point did I realize? they are out of their depths where they were like is this is what it is now or they were like

is this a phase it's going to grow and then what happened? So in middle school was the first time that I grew my hair out and

that was you would think it was the biggest moment ever and for me in part it felt like it was what was it before was just constantly short?

There are going to be a lot of people that laugh at this. Yeah. But they're... Let me get ahead of them. Yeah. I'm like how prefaces. So, growing up, it was constantly... They would take me a super cut.

Yeah? And would just get a buzz cut. Wait, wait. What super cut? Oh, man, Eugene. Oh, boy, you're missing out in life, man. Tell me more. You're missing out and missing out.

I've had my own traumatic experiences with Babbers, yeah. So let me tell me tell you. you when I first came to the U.S. Sounds like you went to Super Cust and didn't know it. No, he did it. He was with Dominican Barber. You got like, you got, you got New York. Nah, you just didn't know the street.

Yeah, but you just didn't know what you're supposed to do and not supposed to do. Yes, true. That's what you got caught up in not only New York vibes. So Supercuts, when I first came to the U.S., I didn't know about this, right? This was actually like my introduction to it. This makes me so happy right now. I'm not alone in it.

You feel seen? First of all, I didn't know that you could franchise a barbershop. Let's start there. That's not a concept where we come from. Yes. At all. Yeah, it wasn't a thing. There's no like franchise.

A barbershop is a place where individuals who are interested in the manicuring of hair gather together. They form a collective and they have a specific vibe and idea of how they cut. Barbershop is also generous. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's true. So now super cuts, my man, I go in. I was visiting our friend David Meyer in Pasadena at the time.

This was early days. Yo, I just go, you know when you just type in to Google, yo, barbershop, hair cut, whatever. Supercuts, I'm like, oh, super cuts. It really sounds like a good name. So I go through, get there. There were like three people cutting hair. Two of them were older Asian ladies, which I'd never seen in my life. But I could not create, I wasn't going to be like, because I was like, clearly I'm in another country.

So maybe here, just like, the, the, the, the, the. Cut so a different thing. Okay. Walked in and then she was like, what would you like? So I was like, well, I had like a very specific haircut I was thinking of. It was a fade that I'm looking for. She was like, no, point there like McDonald's. Pick a number.

That's what I'm going to do to you. I was like, all right, I'll go, I guess number four. My friend, she proceeded to cut my, when I tell you guys at a pace that I didn't know as humanly possible, I've never had a faster haircut in my life. I've also never had a shittier hair cut in my life My brother My brother my headline was Yo my headline was in shock

My hair was just But it was like she was efficient with it Bam bam bam damn done And then for the next like two weeks Every comedy club I went to Chocolate Sundays All the all the comedy clubs were there were black people They're like yo what's uh

So this is how they do your hair in Africa And I was like no man I cut my hair here They're like yo yo yo Because they used to call me Africa They'd be like hey oh Africa Yo, who, you, what you do? Yo, man, what's that line now, man? What you?

Yo, man, who did you? I was like, nah, man. When I said super cuts, guys were like, no, I'm this dude. Oh, super cuts, my friend. So, I'm traumatizing. I would assume with the name, it means. Nah, my friend. The cuts are super.

No, no, no. No, I can't believe. You were doing this your whole life. Like, you, like as a kid, it was. It wasn't until I got to college. It wasn't until I got to college that I got Asheville Barber. Colin, I feel like we're going to be working through a lot of trouble. on this podcast together.

Yeah, I feel like that. Supercuts your whole life is rough. So you grew up thinking Supercutt was normal until college, obviously? It was normal for Turlock, California. What is that place like? I've never heard of it. Like literally until I read your book,

I was like, where is this? So where did you grow up? So it's Central California. Okay. I think Sacramento. It's about an hour south of Sacramento. Okay, got it. So agriculture.

when we first moved there when I was four it was like 40,000 people Yeah, it sounds like that's all right No, it does I always like it sounds like it You describe it well in the book I'm not gonna lie

In the book it's like I was like where is this California is in another California This is yeah It read part of California Which is also misconception Everybody thinks California's like Oh it's blue everywhere

Turlock red part of California Also to paint a picture two of the highlights of being in Turlock we got a regal movie theater that was a big moment and in and out came to Turlock and those were like

we made it the whole time we made it like I think if you go down the highway Turlock is like four exits so long that's it's it that's Turlock damn so when you got movies and double doubles

life yo man life changed Life, what was your in and out order? Do you remember? I would just do a double-double plane. Okay. So I was very simple. I've since expanded my palate.

But my younger years, double-double plane. Man, it was super cuts, double-double plane. They're like, animal-style protease. They're like, yo, look at this hair. Too much. And tell me if I want animal style. Look at this hair. Not a line-up in sight.

Don't go back and look. about younger photo. Man, this is... This is insane. Super cuts, yes, and then... I'm waiting for that moment where your parents go, this out of our hands now.

Yeah, so why did you start growing it? What happened? Yeah. So, the reason I started growing it was I was a huge fan of Alan Iverson. Oh, okay. Also, during that time period, huge fan of Randy Moss.

Okay, okay. And... That's actually powerful. We'll get to that later, but that's actually powerful, yeah. And what in reflecting back, for me, both of them, they were unapologetically themselves. They were unapologetically black.

They shifted culture within the NBA and within the NFL. Yeah, yeah. And for me, as a young black boy in Turlock in a white family, predominantly white community, I was like, oh, that's who resonates with me. There's no one around in Turlock that gets to look to. But how they approached it, for me, that was, it resonated because you are constantly having to fight and battle all of the conversations around just who you are. Right.

Which is why the conversation of growing an Afro and the first time doing that in middle school becomes such a big moment because it becomes a decision that's, I'm not going to let you hold back who I am and how I naturally show up. And that was that was a battle and a process and ultimately ended up getting braids, which that became. that became a whole other experience. When I was reading that story in the book, like this is something that I'd like us to break down because I think you did a really beautiful job of not flattening characters. You know, when people tell stories in life,

I think we can all be guilty of this. We can overstate and simplify the part of a person that we're memory, like thinking of in that moment. or, you know, gravitating towards in that telling of the story. Yeah. And that's why sometimes stories can be complicated. You'll go, someone will tell a story of a parent who was abusive.

But then people will be like, yeah, but why did you still like that? And they're like, oh, well, there's this other side of them where they were beautiful and they were loving and they were caring. And we don't understand that nuance because of how we tell a story. Yes. Someone can speak about a country and, you know, love it and talk, you know, say beautiful things about. But then someone go like, why did you move? They're like, oh, there's this other side of the country that I couldn't stand and I couldn't handle and I couldn't. What you do in the book, especially when talking about your parents, I really think you've done a fantastic job because you explain them as human beings.

Do you know what I mean? You've got these two people who adopt you and they go through, in my opinion, and maybe that's because of how you've written it, they go through the most complicated relationship with the world they live in. because they didn't realize what comes with adopting you as a human being. But just bring it down for us. Like help us understand your parents, you know, how you came to be in their lives and then, you know, what it was for you growing up with them. Yeah. So it, to your point, I love that framing.

Like the nuance around people in situations is so critical and so important. So my parents, they had two children. are ready, my brother and sister, Kyle and Devin. They also had two other children who had passed because of congenital heart defects. And they passed very young. And the doctors recommended, hey, you probably shouldn't try again. You should look at adopting if you want to have more kids. So they were open to that. Ended up being adopted by them when I was five weeks old. Five weeks. Wow. Five weeks. Now, my biological parents, father's black, mother's white, from my understanding, I've not met either of them.

From my understanding, my biological father actually played for the Denver Broncos at one point. Wait, are you being for real? I'm being serious. This is what has been shared with me. So play for the Broncos at one point. my biological mother was 19 at the time and a lot of complexity around their situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That time as well. And that led to me being adopted.

And was adopted born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Parents adopted me. They grew up their whole lives in Wisconsin. Yeah. And similar to Turlock, Wisconsin is predominantly one. Yeah. Especially once you get outside Milwaukee Green Bay, like, you're not going to find a whole lot of black people. To this day, even to my adult life, like going around Wisconsin, it would be like, oh, that's the Kaepernick kid. Even now.

That's how much you stood out. There was no one else. And it was also interesting was almost like a framing of like, oh, that's all right. He's one of the Kaepernick. Yeah. Like, there, there's not just a sense of like, oh, there, there's the person. Right.

It's like, oh, he's part of that family. Right. So, like, it's all good. Did your parents know that you were mixed race when they adopted you? Yes. Okay. Like, that was never, that's an interesting part of, like, identity conversations and having those with people is.

Oftentimes people have assumption like, oh, like, when did you realize you were black? It's like, so even if I didn't realize it, everybody around me told me there's no escaping it even if you wanted to. They realize it for you. Don't worry, they got it. Oh, man. It's so funny. If you don't realize it, they don't realize it for you. Like, they're going to let you know.

Yeah. And for me, that, my parents knew that. I knew that from the young age. My, I actually didn't know this until my adult life. My mom shared the story with me. And I was about three years old. Yeah. We're in Wisconsin.

My sister had some friends over. My sister was six years older than me. So they would have been about nine years old. and we're all playing running around the front yard and one of the friends goes oh get that little nigger whoa and in hearing that

at this point I'm the first time I heard this story I'm in my 30s whoa I'm like that that is actually a great depiction of the experience of being black in white spaces yeah is

you don't have to do anything to bring about those moments. You could just be living, existing, doing whatever you're doing with friends. It's going to find you. And it's going to find you. And how you respond to those situations, well, at that point I'm three years old, but as you're getting older, how you respond to those situations becomes very telling as far as what the trajectory for you is going to be. Do you become accepting of that as the norm? Or do you actually push back on that and say, yeah, that's, we're not going to allow that to slide? And do you start hating yourself for being it?

That's like one of the biggest ones that people take for granted. Because a choice really, yeah. Yeah, when people grow up in a space that is unlike them, if you don't have the privilege of growing up in a place where you just look like you belong and feel like you belong, you can also start to internalize that hatred and be like, why? I don't belong. Why do I look like this? Why is my hair like this? Why is my face like this? Why am I like?

You get what I'm saying? And so I wanted, did your mom ever say what she felt in that moment? She didn't say what she felt. Yeah. But it was, what she shared was it was a quick response of like, hey, don't say that. And that was like the end. So, but to your point around like how you internalize that or how you take that with you, makes me think of when I was older and reading Phenon and black-skinned white mask.

And he talks about it through a lens of colonization and how predominant culture, in this instance, white culture, the impact and influence that has on identity. And you either assimilate into it and try to view that as, well, if what they're saying about me is bad, then I'd should try to be like them. To me, the counter of that is, that's fine, you can have your perspective, but I'm going to be who I'm supposed to be regardless of that. And I think that becomes important, and I think that's decided pretty early on. For me, I was very clear from a young age. I'm a black boy and a white family.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to embrace that. I understand we're different. But in being different doesn't mean I have to become like you. That must have been so hard, though. I can't think of many people who would have that ability. Most people's instinct would be to try and blend in and disappear as quickly as possible. So get rid of the hair so that it doesn't give you away.

Stay out of the sun so that it doesn't give you away. No, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, blend in. Yeah, like the idea of being like, no, I'm going to be, yo, to constantly. No one has cornrows in your school, man. Look about that first. Who even cornered your hair, by the way? Who did it?

No, because this was a journey. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't just corner your hair in Turlock. What are you talking about? So, what? Why are you laughing at me, bro? I know these stories, Eugene. I look at this man's hair and I'm like, yo, man,

this guy's bringing back memories in my life. But I was surrounded, I was lucky. I was surrounded by black women everywhere who were like, They were begging me to corner my head. So now I'm like, yo, in Turlock, how did this happen? You know, Colin, what you're doing for me right now is, you're just piercing through a 20-year-old mystery for me. Some of these things I never knew about my friend.

So thank you so much for helping him feel seen as you were. You should just watch it at therapy session. This is good for y'all. It's good. It's good for all of us. But to that question, there was two brothers. Yeah. Marcus and Ryan Clay, who had their hair braided.

Okay. Two black boys I played football. Oh, so brothers, brothers, brothers. Yeah. Brothers and brothers. I like that. The names gave it away. Yeah, but I wasn't sure.

You know. You never know. You never know. I don't assume. Marcus Clay, Trevor. You never know. Marcus Clay. You never know.

I don't assume anything. Marcus Clay. But you see, now the way you said they could be white. Oh, yeah. Of course. Okay. So they were all in the tone. Yeah, yeah, I was all in the tone then.

Okay, okay. But they were the only ones I saw with Bray. Yeah, okay. So I went and asked them, I was like, I was like, who did your hair? Like, well? what was the process. Now, mind you, at this point, I'm 13 years old. Right.

It's not like the proudest moment or the best feeling to be like, I'm in middle school. Like, how'd you get your hair like that? Yeah. And why? It's a weird question to not know how to do your own hair. Like, there was no similar super cuss. Like, I've been going to super cuss my whole life.

Then you get to a point that's, like, oh, that's how I should be doing my hair. I have no idea how to even get there. And it's not something that's like, we're not in the technology area that we're in today. And it's like, oh, let me look this up real quick. You see how to dial up and the AOL kicking it. Five-minute process to get it up and running. So through that, ask them, like, oh, there's this girl that we go to that live close by.

She was in high school, high school girl, went over there the first time. They took you with. Well, they gave me her number. So I called, I was like, hey, can you do my hair? And I had gone through a period of growing it out during that. She's like, oh, yeah, come by. So I go over there I'm like

I have no idea like what this experience is going to be and the only thing that Ryan told me was like hey just be ready like you don't know if you're tenderheaded or not Hey the dreaded tenderhead

You didn't know what that meant Not really I'm like It was YouTube then Hey but I'm not Tenderhead man At that point I'm not asking questions I'm like I got my foot in the door

I'll figure out I'm tinned head and later. I'm making boobs. So go over there. She's like, it's a little bit short. Like, I can see what I can do. Also, because the texture of my hair, not as tightly coiled. Okay, okay, yeah. So you need more than it.

I made me a little extra length. And she was like, you know what? I can do something. So she braided it, but she put rubber bands through the hair. I was like, all right, she's going. I'm like, just noted.

I understand what tenderhead is now. Is this happening at her house? It's at her house. So it's like totally black family in a... Black family, apartment building that's close by. Kids are running around. The TV's on. Well, most of her and her sister were older.

So wasn't little kids running around? Yeah, yeah. Them? But halfway through this Like, oh, we You know, we got to run to the mall No Halfway

Halfway No So... Okay, but which halfway? Because there's two different Halfways when you're cornering I've been in both situations One is worse than the other

There's the halfway Literally half your head like one side Okay In a strange way That just feels like you're pulling a move Like even when you look at yourself You're like oh this could be like a statement You're two face from that man

But then there's the halfway where some people do it this way Then they leave you with like a little... So which halfway? Where are you? Not you. Just half. Just one side. Okay.

Still bad. Okay. That's my face halfway. But also first experience. Then it's all bad. So like, oh, we got to go to the mall like getting the car. No. So.

This is the best first time. I jump in the car with them. Go to the mall. They had to pick some stuff up because they had like an event or a game. they were going to or something. And I'm saying, I'm like, I have no idea what I got myself into. Like, I don't. This is like an episode of Atlanta.

Yeah. That's what this is true. That's what it feels like. Yeah. Now, mind you, during this time period, my mom is the one who had dropped me off. She's going to house. She has no idea where I'm at. You can't find people.

No. You all remember those days. Yeah. Where the person was is where they're supposed to be. Exactly. Where were you? I wasn't here. Oh.

Where the phone is. Oh, goodness. So she's phoning. She can't find you. You're at the mall with your half head. And now, on the way to the mall, like, we're vibing. I'm like, hey, this, there are a handful of black people in Turnlock. And I'm in the car with like half of them.

So I'm like, yo, this is, I'm good right now. Get to the mall, they do their shopping. All right, jump back out. Like, oh. The hot light at Krispy Kreme is on. Oh, no. What is that? So that means the Krispy Kreme Donuts just got made.

Like, they're fresh out. So, like, oh, we need to stop at Krispy Kreme. Oh, no. I had not had a Krispy Kreme at that point. In your life? In my life. Man, this is... So I'm...

Very much Atlanta episode. Oh, man, this is a full Atlanta episode. So I'm... all right like what's there's no other choice but to be like yeah let's do it

the hot lights on man I'm just in the call the hot light is on I don't fully know what the hot light on means I'm just what's the name of your new book yeah the hot light is on

right so go over there grab Kris cream I'm like all right Mason driving back to the house viving get back there

finish my hair I call my mom and I can feel the heat coming through the phone. Because this was hours and hours. This is hours later. Yeah, you're gone.

And this is my first time meeting them. She doesn't know them. I get into the car, hair, any of that didn't matter. It was just where the, have you been? So it did not help my case on the Bray's side. But the good part, one, braves were very, very tight. So I had take them out quickly because I was like,

I can't deal with this. Got a headache. How long did you last? Oh, it was like 24, maybe 48 hours. So at least you got to go to school with the new breeds. Yes, briefly. What people say? What did the streets say about the breeds? How do they feel?

Did you feel like a new calling? Oh, I felt amazing. Yeah. I also felt like I got a facelift. It does feel like that. It is a natural facelift. Is it? Yeah.

It's just, it's like a cool? It's like mega Botox facelift at the same time. It also depends. Did you sleep? Were you able to sleep? Yeah, that's first night. No one warns you. And it also depends who's braiding your hair.

Yeah. Like this was strong hands. And short hair? Yeah, terrible combination. Yeah, let's make this happen. We're going to get it done, but you're going to feel it. So, but was good first day. Positive.

Look. Was looking younger already. Facilip it all. Looking like he was 12s now, right? But that turned into, oh, we're going to find a professional barber shop and barber. Oh, okay. That then drove to Modesto to someone who did it professionally. But wait, how did, but you talk about this in the book.

This is like a complicated one. It's like, you know, you've got your mom who cares about you deeply. You were the child that they could never have. You filled this whole in the family. You know, you talk about the love and the affection and all this. But there's also this side of your life that was really difficult in that race wasn't spoken about. So like when you get, when you get cornrows, your mom has a reaction to this. What's her reaction?

So the immediate reaction, even to grow my hair out Was like, well why do you want to do that? Like for what? Yeah And then getting the braids Initially was like oh this would be a phase you'll grow like you'll grow out of it Okay And then after that first experience and then we found a barbershop and it became oh I'm getting braids on a regular basis Yeah, this is you now This was like

oh, this from their perspective, like, oh, this isn't a phase anymore. And how do they feel about that? Which then turned into like, oh, we don't like that you have braids. Damn.

And, I mean, there was pressure around it because it was like, oh, you can't have braids and play baseball. Or like, hey, your Afro won't fit under your baseball cap. And ultimately, it came out at one point that was like, oh, you don't look

professional and you look like a little thug which is a fascinating insight to your point because you're in a dynamic

where it's your family you know they love you you know they care about you but you realize that they have an issue with your blackness and that's an interesting piece to grapple with like you love me as your son but you don't love my blackness as your son but that's part of me

and who I am and getting them to understand that that was a difficult part and that really didn't happen until I was older because I had I had to have better knowledge and understanding and framework to be able to explain to them what you're doing and the impact that has and what you're actually saying about me and not just me, what you're saying about a whole community of people. Yeah.

And that's the interesting part. That ultimately led to me, led me to cutting my hair. It wasn't so much an option at that point. It was like, you're going to cut your hair. And then it wasn't until 14 years later that I grew my hair back out. It's amazing how political,

black hair is, just like all over the world as an idea, you know? Because when I think of you as well, your hair, you know, I hadn't known before I read the book about how it affected you in your early life, but there's no separating Colin Kaepernick from the hair. Yeah, absolutely not. When people were talking about you, your hair was also part of it. You know, so if you had cornrows, people would say, you're trying to look hard or you're trying to do something.

When you're the Afro, they're like, oh, this guy is, what is he, black power? now he's trying to it it always symbolize something and I genuinely like selfishly remember watching these things going damn this gives me so many strange flashbacks to moments in my life so in South Africa till this day we've seen it growing your hair out especially as a black kid was a no yep our schools that was the probably the like the first sign of like you are being what would you say? Rebellious. Yeah, rebellious, unprofessional, unkempt.

The white kids, all my friends, they had like, you know, they had the gel, the little spiky thing. Remember the spiky phase? Remember the spiky phase? Oh yeah. And then they had the little quoth thing that does that. It was beautiful. Yeah. Black boys, the only hair

that you were allowed to have. Was a haircut. Everything off. As soon as it started getting long, they were like, and they would measure it. They would come and measure it with a ruler, and they would go like, up, it's gotten too long now. Time to go and get a cut.

They'd send you home. Really? Yeah, they'd send you home. And this was a big thing in South Africa. Even until recently, there were a lot of schools and kids actually who were protesting saying that, hey, our natural hair is not unkempt and unprofessional. It's not, I had this. So when I'm trying to think of the times I grew out my hair.

So the first time I grew out my hair was, I think it was in and around, I don't even know which hip-hop artist it was or what was happening. But it was when that, like, some. Sideways. Oh, yeah. You know, the, the hair kind of, I don't know what, that thing is called? Gumby. The Gumby, is that what it called?

The Gumbie. Yeah, I didn't know the name. I just saw it. I knew my hair could go big. Went to the barbershop. So my mom would just drop me off. And then the guys would just cut my hair. Pretty simple all the time.

Your mom is the kind of mom that I pray for at the barbershop. Because the moms that come in and ask how much is a haircut. I hate those ones. Just leave that guy. The Baba will figure it out. Drop the guy and leave. No, my mom would drop me. Perfect.

She dropped me off and then she'd be like, I'll be back, I'll be back, do the thing. And I always had my routine that gave me a really nice cut all the time. And then one day I said to the bar, my head really grown out. And then my father was like, usual. And then I said, no, sir, can you do the... And then he was like, pointed at it on the board. And it was way down, way further than I usually go.

You know the numbers. I went like way down. No one ventures that low. Way down. And I was like, that one. And he's like, this one. I was like, yeah, this one. He's like, are you sure?

I'm sure. He's like, okay, Baba. I see shy. Let's do it. And then he did it cut around the sides, made it cylindrical. And then he did like the little slant that goes up at the top. When I looked at myself in the middle, I was like, this is the greatest moment in my entire existence. For real?

I leave the barbershop. My mom is waiting outside. my mom go, her face, because it's funny, with her, she didn't care about the style. She was just like, this is going to need to be cut again like next week. My mom went on like a monthly cut basis. Oh yes, yes, you got one of those. She was like, yeah, Trouva, what is this? And then I was like, mom, it's a, she's like, this is not a heck.

I've paid. And then she went back. She's like, no, take it off. They're like, you're going to have to pay for another haircut. She's like, ah, yeah, yeah. She's like, I finished their job. I'm kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not done. And now she couldn't afford.

to get the hair cut off. Yo, man, she was... You see why mom's right loud in the barbers shop? Yo, when I got to school, bro. I've still got that picture. When I went to school, I was just a little kid, I was feeling myself. But even then, teachers, everyone,

they were like, yo, we worried about it. His behavior now. It became, that was like the first moment I experienced it. The rest of my life, I pretty much have short hair. When I'm leaving school, I grow it out again. That's not a big deal. in the US, that's when I experienced it in a weird way. I'm at the daily show.

Short hair is like how I roll. Short hair, short hair, short hair, pandemic hits. No one has a barber. My hair grows out. My hair grows out. I don't care. I'm just like, this is natural.

It's just happening. And then as it was growing, people would be commenting, like, online. And they'd be like, yo, what, what's going on? Yo, what's happening? And it was a wide range from like, yo, is that what his hair is?

Is, wait. I don't understand. Why is his hair like that? What? What is hair? And then the number one thing people asked me was, yo, but you're going to, you're going to cut it, right? You're going to.

Pandemic's done. I mean, you're going to. I understand the way to depend. But you're going to, you're going to, surely you're not going to. I mean. For real, for real. Yeah. A lot of people, they were like, we understand that you would have this in a time of distress.

Yeah. But surely you want to go back to. And the under, the undertone was always like, but surely you want to go back to like, you know, like, Like this is cool, Colin. I mean, you're chilling right now. But when you do something like if you like open a company, you got in the office, you'd probably like, you're probably cut it, right? It's the perception of what it means to people.

But here's my thing. I think since I've been coming to New York often, this has been my fascination. I see more mixed race people in New York than I've ever seen in my life. And when I see mixed race people, I always see. them in different spaces. I see them with other mixed race people. I either see them with white people or I see them with black people.

And in all of those three situations they act differently. So when, so for example, at the barber shop there's mixed race barbers, then they have mixed race clients. Yeah. So when their mixed race clients show up, they sound more black than anything else.

So they switch from being who they were before and then they go, yo, what's going on? And then I was like, what's going on? It's the coach tree. Yes. And then sometimes their white friend would walk in the bus,

because it happened the last time. The white friend walked. And he was like, yeah, man, we have to do that. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened here? So when you're mixed race, who do you feel the most comfortable with one and who do you have to explain the least two? Damn, that's a good question, Eugene.

Take it, Colin. That's a really good question, actually. I'm going to throw an additional factor in here in my end. That law means go in there which is being adopted you're constantly explaining explaining in the background

Oh I didn't think about that layer Because anywhere my parents show up It's like And you can see people Trying to do the math in their head Do you want them have a black partner previously? Yeah, who had that thing?

You come with questions Oh immediately Yeah So like there was constantly a space of, all right, I have to explain the situation. I have to explain. Otherwise, it's like I could tell people in anything we're doing are sitting there like, yeah, I hear you. But I'm still trying to figure out like how you got here. Yeah.

So you throw that in the mix. But what's interesting in for me growing up, even in being mixed race, like black and white, I just view myself as a black man. Because you're going to be treated like a black man anywhere you go. Like there wasn't a middle ground within that. Now, the realization that you have as you get older is also you're going to be treated different being lighter skin.

Yeah. than your friends and community that are darker skin. Like, that's a factor too. Now, when either one of you walks into a space that's predominantly white, like, you're still getting treated like you're black. The part that was interesting for me growing up is in being in those spaces and having white parents, I also felt like white people were a lot more comfortable

saying how they truly felt. To you. It was almost like, oh, if those are your parents, like, we're good. Like, we'll just, we can talk freely because you're part of the white family. Right. So I think there was a lot more insight that I got into, like the thinking of how white people were operating just by way of them being comfortable because of the situation. which is also an interesting, like, peace to navigate and deal with.

You know what's funny is growing up in South Africa in the township, I was only an adult when I got exposed to the phrase mixed race. Because there were always lighter skin kids in the township. Right? We couldn't explain them, but they were there. We couldn't explain them. You know why the phrase makes me laugh. Fair of it.

Yes, we couldn't. No, because it sounds like they were like 10 of you. And then they were like, Emma Chens, guys, we need to figure this out. So what's happening with this guy? Yeah, we couldn't explain them because we also, you know, what made it hard not to be able to explain them? Oh, man. At their house looked like them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So they had other siblings and there was mom and dad, and then there was them. This is my life. And then, but in our heads, it never clicked that they were mixed race. It was just a guy. Yeah. Or a girl that looked a certain way, right? So when him and I first met, we met through comedy. So he would come to the same club as I would come to.

But on the days that he was there, I wasn't there. And the day was a, they were like, yo, there's this colored guy. So colored in South Africa is, you know how it is. Has a completely different terminology. And for context, Eric Reed, his wife is South African. Oh, I didn't know that. So I've gotten a little bit of insight from her mom. Right.

she was the first one that gave me the context of colored in South Africa being mixed. Yeah. I was like, oh, this is, I had to reframe like my mental model. It's completely. So now all the people that we do comedy with who would see him and see me,

they'll be like, you have to meet this guy. This guy is super funny. It's colored guy. This colored guy's color. And finally we meet. And then I went back to the same people. I was like, which kind of guy were you guys talking about? They were like, that guy.

And I was like, that guy is far from colored. Not a chance. Then I was like, what are you guys talking about? Because of his skin tone, they thought he was colored. Yeah, because it's a culture. And in South Africa, it's so complicated. You see Tyler going through this all the time, the musician. They keep asking her why you say you colored, why you say black, why.

And shame, I always feel bad for her because I'm like, they're asking her to explain one of the most unnecessarily complex difficult situations that was created by apartheid in South Africa, which was they gave this skin tone the designation of colored. But what happened over time, and it often happens in the face of any adversity, a beautiful thing emerges. Colored people became their own culture,

but they were forced to become a culture. It wasn't an optional thing. So now, colored is both a culture and a color. At the same time. At the same time in South Africa, but you may not be colored. You can look colored and not be colored. You can also not look coloured and be coloured.

So it's... And I think like most things in life, if you just enjoy it and try not to flatten it, it actually becomes more interesting. But that thing was like... Yeah, I was like, guys, please explain the coloured part to me. Yeah. We're like, you saw him, ne?

And I was like, yes, I did. They were like, then? Then I was like, guys, I spoke to the guy. But culturally... Yeah. Culturally, like Eugene and I basically grew up the same life, the same vibe, the same everything. So in our world...

It's funny, you know that question you asked? I think of it. Here's the thing I've learned in my life. I'm not saying it's the same for everybody, but I will say this. For the most part, and I don't blame the people. I blame the systems that the people have lived within. I find black people are generally more comfortable and more understanding of the nuances in between.

They'll roast you. Don't get me wrong. But what I found was black people just understood all the shades of black. And they knew that they existed. So they knew it's like It's like okay Even being black from Ghana and then coming to America Means that you have a different experience

In your blackness than a black American But you both share one commonality and that is your blackness But then there's the nuance and the beautiful tapestry that exists within it Where you're from? You get on saying The same thing goes in South Africa We also have culture to fall back on So you might go to me like

We colored and then I'll be like no Enkhas and then it's like Now it all becomes like wait wait wait wait wait wait But that adds a another layer to it. And people are more accepting of that. They're like, oh, Mama, like, okay. And then no, Tata, like, oh, okay.

Oh, Tata like, oh, Tata like, oh, Tad de. Oh, then like, oh, his dad is wife. Oh, his mom is cross. They would be so much, it was so much easier for them to grasp that. But it's also because, in a sad and beautiful way, I've always felt like the most marginalized communities in the world, whether it's in, when I go to Paris, and I've like seen like some of the suburbs,

when I'm in South Africa, where I grew up, even in the US, the most marginalized communities are the ones where people are forced to be the most mixed. Do you get what I'm saying? Explain. In many ways, poverty is surprisingly inclusive. Very much so. You know what I mean? Yeah.

It's a strange thing. Yeah. Go to any hood. Yo, you'll see every shade, every style, every vibe, every everything. And like I say It's not to like turn it into like a Disney movie That's why I say people will roast you They will tell you about how you look

You will be that light skin nigger You will be that Somali cat You will be they will say the thing But the thing is they will They both acknowledge you in your nuance And then they will accept you or not accept you On a human level I believe So that is like not everyone just got to be friends

Because we're humans But then I find when you move into spaces where people are predominantly defined by one thing. So if you live in a country, it's like the white thing or the... That space generally has like a... It's like, this is the band and that's it. If you're not in it, you're not in it.

And you sort of like can't be in it. Yeah. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. So when you ask me the question of like most comfortable, I would argue I'm always most comfortable in a space where people are very quickly able to understand the complexity and the nuance of my thing.

But we've often spoken about this, and I've seen it whenever we do stuff with Trevor is black people in South Africa, they will just go straight into vernacular like any black because he speaks multiple. So they'll just go without even thinking about it.

And then white people are shocked that he responds like them. Eugene is always shocked by this. Yes. Because I get to watch it from the outside. They always say the same thing. Why do you speak the languages? How did you? I don't I can understand how do you speak the languages.

Trevor, where did you learn all these languages? I'm like in the country that I'm from, from my family and from my, what do you mean? How did I speak all these languages? How do you not know all of these languages? You've lived here your whole life. In a country that is overwhelmingly made of these languages. I'm shocked that you don't speak these languages.

Without fail. It happens. Really? After all these years, after everything that he's done, everything that he's said, everything is written about, without fail it happens like clockwork Yeah Eugene just sits in the back laughing Or just being you've always you've always pointed

I didn't even notice that until you said it I just lived and then one day Eugene was like yeah why do people I was like what do you mean and then the next time I was like damn Eugene's right Because it becomes so normalized Yeah yeah it all becomes normalized You're used to having to explain yourself And that

Very similar experience Don't go anywhere because we got more what now After this We're doing the deal We're past kneeling. We shall be talking about Colin. We're moving on to action as if action hadn't been happening for years. It's sport.

Give you a different type of outlet, though. Because, you know, when I read your story, what's beautiful throughout the book is like, we're exploring this life of this young man, Colin, discovering himself. And it's so many layers. It's you as a boy trying to discover life. Then it's you as a biracial boy. You're a black boy growing up in this. town where they're like five black people.

Your parents are white. They love you deeply, but they have very little understanding of blackness and how it is appreciated or unappreciated. All of this is happening. And then there's this new thing that develops on the side. That's actually crystal clear and that's a scoreboard. Like what did sport do in your life? How did that change or develop you as a person? Because that's a whole different world. Yeah, it So I love sports

Because they're so clearly defined That must have been liberating It You can't tell me I'm I'm less than When it's numbers on the scoreboard Damn And it becomes a space where

It becomes very clear if you win or lose If you're good or bad That's not say there's not politics within it and all of that. But it does become a space that's much clearer, who is better and who isn't. So for me, that became a very comfortable space. I also became a space that's like I can hyper-focus and just go out and do what I love doing. Yeah. And I will say it also looked different from sport to sports.

sport. Oh, okay, same more. Like, culturally, each sport is different. Like, right now, if you think of the NFL, yeah, or if you think of the NBA, or Major League Baseball, right? Or the NHL, just throwing a feel. Culturally, you kind of have a feeling for each of those without ever stepping into the organization. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for me, football was the space. I was like, oh, culturally, this is closer to who I am. Interesting. And there were more black people in football within Turr-Ly. So I was like, oh, there's more community here for me.

Yeah. So I love football in that regard. And one of my earlier experiences, when I was eight years old and I first played tackle football, I tried out for the team, made the team. almost passed out the first day at tryouts, but ultimately got on the team. And going through our first few days, first is an anecdote to this. One of our coaches, Russ Bailey, was ex-general in the military, I believe, or drill sergeant in the military. So eight years old out there, every day it was like,

You got to do 50 push-ups. We'll call them push-ups. I guess eight years old, you're not getting a whole lot of elbow bend in there. A lot more head-bobbing. We'd be doing leg lifts. We're doing laps. I was like, this is terrible. Kids are on the field.

Like, it sounds like torture. You can tell this man Misty's old job, eh? Yeah. Move, move, move, move, move. Come on, get dropped out and give it 50. Move, move, move, move. Get out here, maggot. And this was the worst part.

If anybody stopped doing push-ups, if anybody stopped the leg lifts. He was one of those. Everyone else that's finished. Start it over. My kind of guy. Oh, no. So it was, like, kids are on the field crying. Oh, no.

It's bad. But that ultimately led into this first trip. drill. The running back was a 10-year-old. Joey Addaway. Never, never forget this. Joey Adaway, 10-year-old, one of the few black kids on the team. But he was the star. Fast, strong, lean, like nobody wanted to tackle him. I didn't know this at the time. So we line up for this drill. It's called Cat in the Alley. Okay. Terrible drill.

Half the team lines up here. Other team, half lines up here. Yeah. At opposite ends, you have a ball carrier and a tackler. Those are the cats? Those are... No, one is a cat. One's going to be the cat.

Yeah, one's the cat. So, ball carry is supposed to be the cat. Yeah. Tackler is the other one. So you sprint around the outside. The alley? And then sprint down the middle. Wait, what?

Like, at each other. At each other. Full speed one on one. But you have the whole team lined up. So there's nowhere to go. Like, you have to go head on. So I'm waiting in line for my turn, and I'm supposed to be a tackler. I'm like, all right.

And I start seeing kids shuffling around. I'm like, what are they doing? They're trying to avoid. See a kid go behind me. See kids over there, like. Oh, man. I've never done. done this drill. I haven't been in organized football like that.

All right. I'm getting up. All right. Ready to tackle. And I look over and I realize that he's the person I'm going up against. Joey Adaway. I'm like, oh shit. I made a mistake. Too late to shuffle. No. So I blow the whistle. I take off running. I get to. to the end to turn around, and he is already halfway down the alley. The cat's already up the end.

He's already halfway down the alley cat. I wanted that. And I go to try to tackle. He puts his helmet right in my chest. Oh. And runs straight through me. And I remember, I don't know how hard I hit the ground. I just remember looking up and I see his cleats going over my face.

Oh, my God. And I just see the sky. I was like, I'm not even sure what happened right now. Do you hear the words, welcome home. It felt that way. I spent the rest of that drill regrouping. But that was my first experience. Now, I say that, say, as I was playing on that team.

Yeah. his mom, Mrs. Adelaway, adored her, adored her. Bigger black woman, every day at practice. Hey, baby, how are you doing? Oh, man. Also, very random.

Growing up in Wisconsin, we were Packer fans. She was a Packer fan, black Packer fan in Sirlock, California. I was like, I don't know how this happened, but would always check on me. And I was like, in the moment, I didn't realize it. But looking back, I'm like, she was making sure I was good. Yeah.

Because she knows what Turlock is. Yeah. Like, she just has the experience of being older. And that ties into the culture that I got to experience with in football. I was like, oh, the sense. of belonging within the community here, like that resonated with me. And that's not say that didn't show up in ways within basketball and baseball, but football really became the home there. So the culture piece, and then also being able to go out and have that definitive nature

of, hey, in sports, you get to compete, and you're either better or you're not. And it becomes very hard to be able to skew that perception. Now, you may be able to do it initially, But over time, players know, coaches know, people watching, no. It's like, yeah, you should be starting. You should be playing. That's the best player out there. That's the best team. So it has a level of defense against people being able to manipulate that.

Yeah, I think that's, you know, I joked about this once with a friend. We were chatting, we're looking at like numbers in America and it was like, okay, incarceration and then, you know, employment in corporate spaces and talking about like how a black person moves and then the outsized influence or rather success of black people in sport. And I remember I really said it flippantly, but I just said I was like, yeah, because sport is the one place where you can't lie about the person's achievements or lack thereof. It's there for everyone to see. You just can't.

And we take this for granted. Again, I don't blame the people, but I think we take so many of these things for granted. When you work with somebody in an office, how do you grade how good they are or aren't? if we're honest about it do you look at their output but what does their output actually mean do you look at their input

how they feel in the office or what they make other people feel like is it how they sell themselves in a meeting? Is it how they we take for granted how much of that is just plucked from thin air and it's an idea

correlated to how we perceive good, efficient, performance, professionalism. You even take it out of race, look at it, men and women. One of the things I remember, I was talking to one of my team members about when I was in office was, she was having a really tough time.

She was like, man, I'm so sorry I cried in that meeting. And I was like, why? And she says, I don't know, I just feel so unprofessional when I cry. And I said, but it's interesting you say that. But I've seen, the guys have like a temper tantrum and no one thinks

that that's unprofessional. And they don't apologize. And they don't apologize. You know? Be like, I'm sick of the shit. We've got to get it done. And then people are like, yeah, we've got to get it done. He was really passionate about it. And so you realize if you work in an office, for the most parts, the office as a space

has been defined. Most of its parameters that we take for granted have been defined through one idea and that idea is a white male man. Again, I'm not against it. I'm not saying it's the people are bad. It's just if you bring a group of people together and they define a space, that is what the space will generally be about. Okay?

So now, that is the benchmark. How far you deviate from it will define your professionalism. You get what I'm saying? So if your hair is far from his, if your style of dressing is far from it, if the way you speak is far from his, if you're anything, the further you get, the less professional you will be perceived as being. Right? So even woman, you get, so when a space becomes more,

more female, then that starts to change how we determine professionalism. But even then, it's like, how do you dress? Where does your dress get to? What is your skirt? What is your blouse? What, et cetera, et cetera. You know what I mean? And that's the thing that's so fascinating about sport. Yeah, it still comes with its politics and its complexity and we're going to chat about that. But like, the scoreboard is the scoreboard, man. It's really, really difficult to close somebody out for a long time when the numbers start to speak. It just becomes this world where it's like, Yeah, yeah, here, you know? Do you put your numbers up?

Do you beat your man? Do you get that ball to the carrier? Do you know what I mean? And so I can see that being this world. But I didn't know, again, you know, because it's funny for me, I've experienced your journey backwards. I didn't know that baseball was such a big part of your life. Yeah.

And it seems like this is where you genuinely thought your, life was going to go. But then it was like, it was like 200. How many DVDs did you send out to Scouts? DVDs! Yeah, bro. We're talking way back when, bro.

Did you say DVD? You damn straight. The TikToks from back in the day. Physical TikToks, baby. You carried them with you. You're not going to explain. We just have a little pop-up for younger people who watch. Yeah, DVD.

You sent out like hundreds, right? How many DVDs did you send out? So we sent out 119. 119. To all 119 Division 1 schools at that time. That was for baseball. That was for football. Oh, that was for football.

That was for football. Now, here's a part that we'll definitely have to explain to it for it. My film was actually done on tape. So we had a machine DVD player that would burn. burn the tape onto the DVD. So we had to go from VHS to D.D. You guys would have been really good friends. Oh, man.

At some point, this is my dream. Ran his own Apple music at his house. That's a story for another day. So you had to physically do this 100 times over in the hopes that you would get picked up. And did that with my dad and my brother. Yeah. Sent him out to every school.

And just got. mail after mail, letter after letter. I was like, yeah, we're not looking for anyone. And was this for the quarterback position? This was the play quarterback. You see, like, that's another layer that I've never really understood in football. And I know it's changing. And so forgive me, I'm really ignorant on this.

Yeah. Why has it seemed like the quarterback position is also like a white guy position? And forgive me if I say anything, because I don't know the sport. well at all. I watch like the playoffs. I see the people crash into each other and then I watch ads for like 10 minutes. I don't really understand the sport. But I love like elements of it. But I've never understood that where people will be like, oh, he looks like a quarterback or he is a just explain that to me. Break that down. The best way to be able to explain it is think of the quarterback as the CEO.

Okay. Of the team. Of the team. Okay. Particularly on the field. The common framing is, well, the CEO is going to be white. Okay. They have to be intelligent. Uh-huh. They have to be able to lead and command a team.

Uh-huh. They have to be a student of the game. Okay. And all of those were attributes that were attributed to white quarterbacks. Okay. Now, the flip side, black quarterbacks, and these were things that I was framed as. Yeah. freak athlete

gifted a dual threat and nothing was ever oh you're a phenomenal leader you're extremely intelligent you're a student of the game which it is fascinating

because I think about coming out of high school when I was being recruited at a 4.5. What does that mean? GPA. GPA. So, gray point average.

So normal baseline is, if you get straight A's, you get a 4.0. Okay. If you take AP classes, you can get beyond that. That's like advanced classes. Yeah, advanced classes.

So I was beyond the standard of what you're supposed to be able to get. Right. Which is also not normal for an athlete, I might add. like generally because like athletes in America would be again not their fault they would just be pushed through because athletics was so important and is so important. Or that academics get yeah they'd be like yeah just push the kid through yeah yeah we don't care that they're not really learning just push them through

so you're academic and athletic at the same time yes so the intelligence piece was always interesting to me yeah because it's like there's a track record like there's data to support what I'm I have done there. But we see this consistently. We also see it when black quarterbacks have been athletic. Oh, well, maybe

you should play receiver. Maybe you should go a tight end and trying to shift position out of the quarterback shift the position away from being a quarterback. Yeah. And we still see this today.

This is not abnormal for this to occur. Have we seen a changing though? Like, from your time to what we're looking at now, do you think there's been a big change, a small change, no change? There's been some change around it. Yeah. In part because the talent and performance has become so undeniable.

There you go. It's like, you... Okay. Really? Like, you can't make the claim that they shouldn't be playing that position. Right, right, right, right. does not say that they still don't try. Yeah, the perception remains the same.

But I do think outside and more throughout society, people are starting to look at it and be like, no, that's the normal. That's the norm now. Yeah. Because if I can have someone back there who can stand in the pocket and throw the ball, the same way as his counterpart can. Right. And also can run a four-four. you give me more options and you give our offense more options

and that's what we're seeing play out and that actually took a lot of time for offenses to evolve and offensive coordinators to actually accept that there was somebody who could do more than the position had previously like there was there was a wave

within football that they would have typically it would be a white quarterback. Yeah. And then they would call in what would be a wildcat package. Okay. Which would be, we're going to bring a running back in to play quarterback because we want them to be able to run the ball and give us more options.

Okay. So, like, we need you to throw in this instance for the running back. We're going to bring you in. Play quarterback, but we need you to run. Yeah. Which defenses then look down and we're like, well, I know you're running the ball. Like your running back's not throwing. They can't throw.

And it's like, well, you have an option today that can do both of those. Yeah. Why would you not just do that? So it's pretty unpredictable now. And that was the, I think that progression. And we see this early on, like Randall Cunningham, Michael Vic, Donovan McNabb, Cordell Stewart, Warm Moon, Steve McNair, all of these black quarterbacks that came in. extremely talented.

Yeah. And I would say oftentimes limited by how the offense was designed to be able to maximize their abilities. Have you ever seen

there's a few studies that have been done on it but there's one that came out really, really recently. Somebody analyzed, like a team, analyzed the commentary in the Premier League,

so the soccer league in England. and all they did this is like one of those where again the data that's where data is a beautiful thing they just looked at the commentary

and the words that were used for white players the commentary and the words that were used for black players that was it that was it they just wanted to see when you look at the word map the amount of times

a white player was called intelligent thoughtful skillful it was always like man the way they think about the game, such a talent, the way he, oh, his vision, his ability. And then the black players was always like, he's a beast. The madness, you know what I mean? He's unstoppable. A force of nature. An absolute, look at him, power down the field. And don't get me wrong, some of the

things were very complimentary, but the type of compliment was like reserved in a certain way. So it was like, on this side, it was, yes, you are like this machine and you are big and you are powerful and you're strong and you're gifted naturally it i mean no one can stop you you're just an unstoppable thing and then on this side it was like the way you use your brain man oh just moments where you use your brain and it's and and it's interesting how you this is 2026 by the way we're not talking about like 40 50 years ago and again those commentators i don't think are being like assholes the premier league even has like an anti-racism campaign there was talk about any black commentators in there in the premier league yeah that's a good question i'm sure there are

contributors but I don't think there's many like main commentator but they again because of the sport they've brought in a lot of pundits you know

and co-hosts and stuff but you see what I also noticed in Premier League football whenever they speak about a black player they'll always also speak about their descent they'll be like

so if a Chelsea player is from Ghana but now lives in the they'll say of Ghanaian descent and then he's a long journey in the they love doing that. They love doing that. They love doing it. And then he's doing very well, yeah.

He does a lot for his community as well. And then they're like, why are you telling us about this guy? Why are you explaining him? Can I tell you what I think it is? They did a lot in the World Cup now. Can I tell you what I think it is? Genuinely, honestly what I think it is. So I think sometimes how something is intended is not how it's received.

Right? And this is life. And now I think our role, I mean, it's your choice. And you talk about this in the book. talk about as yourself. In life, you can make a decision. You can choose to receive the thing as it was intended. You can choose to tell the deliverer of the message that they've done it wrong, et cetera, et cetera. I think what's often happening is people don't realize that they are showing how they've perceived a group of people. And so they're like impressed by the journey that you've taken,

which can be felt in a very condescending way. It can feel very condescending. So they're just like, Eugene, I mean, to see you, I mean, you've traveled around the world and, huh? I mean, this, I mean, this, it's just looking, look where you came from and you, wow. But you sound like immigration. But you get what I'm saying. So I think sometimes, sometimes the way they're saying it, I think they're saying it because they are surprised that that person is there. But they don't realize that they're revealing, they're. surprise is revealing something and not necessarily negative. It's just a feeling of something.

But they don't have that surprise when a player worked themselves up. So I'll give you a simple example. I very seldom heard commentators say this about Zlatan Ibrahimovych. That's what I was about to say. And Zlatan Ibrahimovic had one of the hardest lives growing up. He's one of the greatest footballers we've ever seen. He's one of the most talented individuals, a true freak of nature. 100%. The man is like probably your height. He's massive. But he's nimble and he was quick and he would do like acrobatic moves that like only tiny players would do everything and when you read his story you're like man you know family from like the soviet block and then they go to sweden and he's an outsider and he's not accepted and all of these things and he's like he's not

Swedish enough and he's not blonde and blue-eyed and and all these things and the way he speaks and all of this but commentators very seldom if you look at his career very seldom spoke of him in that way they very seldom spoke of him as a Cinderella story yeah They very seldom go like, man, from humble beginning, Zlatan, Ibrahim. No, they're just like, Zlatan, what can he not do? I mean, the guy, the most gifted player on the ball, the way he thinks about the game and his talent and he's just like, oh, he's phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then you will find generally a player who's had his, a similar journey to his,

but they happen to be a person of color, then people will focus on that. But I've also noticed in soccer that it's easier for comment, maybe not easier, but commentators will gravitate towards explaining someone who's mixed race trying to explain it to the to the business than someone of mixed heritage. Yes. Because in Europe there's a lot of that. Yeah, there's a ton of it. Czech Republican mom and a Belgian dad.

Albanian, whatever, yeah. No one will ever say with an Albanian mom and a Czech dad, he's come very far. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. If a mixed race Belgian player plays, the commentator almost feels they need to explain who that guy is, his mom and his mom. is from here, his dad is from there. How many, you know what I blame though?

A lot of times I've heard him's woke up. Yeah, but what I blame again, like I say, remember, they all get their fact toys, right? So the good commentators at least, what they do is before a game, they will like try and get as much information as they can on every single player. Yeah. They download everything really and they try and learn where they're from, what, because they want to tell a story during a match. To them, what's interesting is that because that's abnormal.

You're actually noticing a thing that I'm saying. To them it's abnormal. they're going, wow, and you know a Nigerian father and a, you know, it's like a, you know, and then they'd say it about Colin as well, they'd be like Colin Kaepernick, an absolutely fantastic player, originally adopted, you know, two really, really wonderful parents. Grew up in Turlock and really, you know, grew up one of a very few

children of Kalani's community. Oh, well, Colin Kappanick's shooting the ball. This is really great. But they feel like that is what makes your story interesting. And so genuinely, when I watch it, I go, I don't think of it in a malicious way. I go, it shows us something, but I understand where they're, like, coming from. You know how whenever I hear commentators doing exactly what he just did, I'm just glad it never happens in real life. Imagine every time you walk into a room that commentator starts, you know, you'd be surprised about how he got here.

Seeing as how we performed in high school. You walk in the office. And here we are. accounting department of J.P. Morgan and it's going to be a big team meeting today. You've got everyone gathered. Brad Smith, there he is. Really, really strong guy.

I mean, he's just, the way he thinks about the numbers in this team. You know, Bill, he's just, yeah, you know, he's really shown that he's a top thinker. He's a strategist. He has, he's got everything. His reports every single quarter. Then bring back a shameful background. And, oh, look who we got here. Oh, one of his co-workers.

Oh, the one and only. Oh, the man himself, Marcus, the beast. Oh, look at, I mean, Marcus, look at this guy, his physique. The way he moves through the office, have you seen how many files he can pick up at the same time? I mean, imagine this guy delivering a report to your office. What are you going to tell him? What are you going to tell him? Well, interesting fact about Marcus, Jim, is that his dad of Nigerian descent and his mom from Wisconsin.

He's overcome a lot. He's just, I mean, his story, he's just overcome. A lot. It's a real rags and rich. Let's get into the part of your journey that like, that like really, I mean, there are two parts for me in football that you, that you spoke about. He's been, off the way from the mic.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, he's been press conferences, but he knows. You know, because. I keep the sound quality. Yeah, yeah, I love it. The reason I want everyone to read your book is because, Because I think when anybody writes a book, if they write it well, it is both a beautiful introduction to a human being. But it's also a fascinating look into aspects of lives that we may never get to live. And for me, it's the sport itself.

You know, when you're like in a, you're sharing a room with Cam Newton and he's got like tons of under armor gear, you've got no gear. And he's just like, yo, just take it and have it. Like that beautiful experience where he's like in this echelon that you don't even know that you're going to get to at some point, but you do. You know, when you talk about like meeting your idols and then becoming teammates with the working with them. Like there's so many parts of your journey. But I know we'd be remiss if we didn't get into like two of the biggest seminal moments. The first one being you, the Super Bowl, just like how you get into the team and how this like changes your life, you know, going to the mall, getting more. let's just talk about that shift

because for your for your whole life Colin Kaepernick sort of sticks out you stick out you don't look the same as your family you don't like the same as most of your community and then you step into a sport and you go to a college

and all of a sudden you blend in you find yourself you find parts of yourself you didn't know existed it becomes this like beautiful new version of what you get to exist in and in a way you're like anonymous again

in a beautiful way, in a way that I think everyone should experience, like being both anonymous and special. When you're an athlete, you're part of that group, you're part of that. But there's a moment where it all switches for you. And I'm really fascinated as to like how you dealt with that and what that meant for you. Like, where was the moment where it shifted and then what was it like going forward from that, like when you're in the NFL? It's, I love that question because when I think about what?

what I was doing, there actually wasn't a shift. The shift was the perception. I love the smell. Yoch. Because all of the training, all of the workouts, all of the dedication,

the film, working with teammates, staying after practice, showing up early. All of those things were happening that ultimately led to the moment that when Alex Smith got hurt, I was ready to be a starter.

And I think oftentimes we look at those moments and it's like, oh, this came out of nowhere. Like all of a sudden, like a star is born. It's like, no, at that point, I've been playing football for 15 plus years. I had been, this was year two of me being in the NFL. Yeah. I have been putting in work for 18 plus months with the San Francisco 49ers

just waiting for a crack in the door to be able to get on the field. Because it's like, I know I can do better out there. And that position is tough because it is only, like, you know, like in soccer, you might find a gap. Because let's say you're a right winger. Your coach might be like,

you know what, I'm going to play you as a striker for this game while plays a midfield out, quarterback's quarterback. You get one. There's one, bro. And what made this situation unique, too, is my first year in the NFL was Jim Harbaugh's first year with the 49ers.

Okay. That first year, we went to the NFC championship. Like, Alex was playing well. Our team was good. Yeah. The second year, Alex gets hurt. I step into this role and the first game

he gets hurt in the middle of the game I jump in go we were behind we end up tying the game leaves questions for people of like oh some good moments in here but like yeah we haven't seen you play a full game

yeah it wasn't a win yeah it wasn't a win we haven't see you play a full game yeah um and going into the next week we have a Monday night football game game against the Bears. And the question is like, is Alex going to play or not? Will he be back from concussion protocol? During the whole week, we're sharing reps, we're going back and forth. It's not until Sunday night that I'm told I'm going to be starting. So less than 24 hours before game time. And it didn't feel that different to me outside of the fact of, oh, this is my moment. Like, this is my shot. but all of the work in preparation had already been happening.

And then go out, play well, we win the game, we have a great game out there, and then the questions start coming up. Oh, so who should be starting now? And those questions came very quickly. And the following week, we're getting ready to play the Saints. and me and Alex are splitting reps throughout the week. And Coach Harbaugh had not made a decision over who's going to be starting. So it's still everything in limbo.

Finally makes the call. I'm going to start the next game. He's going to give Alex another week to rest to recover, go out, play well. We went against the Saints. We beat Drew Breeze and the Saints in the Super Dome, which is that is not a small task. It's like a rainy night at Stoke. It's also against you.

Yeah, yeah, it's just... And that, like, very talented team. Go out, we play well, we win. And then it becomes, oh, wait, like, you can't go back now. Like, you can't switch quarterbacks at this point. Yeah. And that became the continuation of, oh, okay, now you're our starter. until you show us you're not.

Wow. And when I think about those moments from the time I was young, I remember my dad telling me, prepare as if you are the starter at all times. And what becomes most interesting to me about that, when I started playing at eight years old, when I went to middle school football, when I went to high school, when I went to college, when I went to the NFL. At every level, I was always put in a backup position, every level.

So I always had to work my way into a starting position. And I think that's part of the reason I love sports is because you can say I'm not better initially and try to put me in a position that I shouldn't be in. Yeah. But it's very hard to deny it. it over time. Players see it, coaches see it, parents see it, everybody begins to see it. And that was the part that in San Francisco, the spring before I started, I was,

Randy Moss had joined our team. Um, my childhood heroes. It's crazy. It, it's surreal. Yeah. Serendipity. And during the OTAs, we, which is off-season training activities. So that happens in the spring. During that springtime, Randy walks over to me after one of the practices. He's like, hey, if we're going to go to Super Bowl, you're going to have to take us there.

This is your hero telling you this. This is crazy. This is Randy Moss. I'm like, there's a moment of like, Randy Moss is telling me this. I have not started. a game for the 49ers, but he's just seeing me in practice. And he's like, you're the person who's going to have take us there.

How did that feel? Oh, I mean, at this point, Randy Moss had played with Randall Cunningham, Dante Pepper, Tom Brady, Brett Fav. Like, he played with stars. And to have him say that. that, it's like, oh, you've played with all-time greats. Yeah. The confidence that comes out of that. Yeah.

It's like, oh, okay. I have to prove you right. I have to. And that year we go on, we go to the Super Bowl. No way. Go to the Super Bowl that year. My 10th start of my career was in the Super Bowl. It's amazing

But it was such a moment of I'm a backup quarterback An injury happens You come in and play And you have to show that you can do it And then everything else from there It's just a byproduct Of all of the work that you have already done

And you have to continue to do it It was a crazy game, a close game It was one of those games that you hear about outside of sport, even when you're not in the sports. It was just one of the... Didn't you throw for, like, record yardage as well in that game? It was... I feel like I remember, like, your numbers...

I just remember them at the time. People kept on saying, we've just never seen... Like, a quarterback throwing these numbers in a Super Bowl, it was wild. 300 plus yards in the air, another, I think 60 plus on the ground. Yeah, it was... Offensive stat-wise, great game.

Yeah. What I'll also say, for us as a team going back and looking at the film, we didn't play well. No way. Like, it was not a good game for us offensively, even though, I mean, we put up, I believe it was 31 points in the Super Bowl. For us walking out of there, we're like, we should put up 40 plus points. We played bad. basically the whole first half of that game. Like little mistakes here and there.

They just piled up, had turnovers. We coming out of halftime, we kick off, they return it for a touchdown. And it was like, this is so abnormal for us. And the second half we turned around. We come back in the fourth quarter. We get within five yards of the go-head touchdown. And we come up short. And it's like, that is obviously not the way you want to end it.

What I will say is it does put you in a space that being so close, like you know what it feels like to be there. Yeah. It's like, oh, we have to go harder to get over this hump. And you start, for me, I started preparing as soon as we got back. It's like, I can't live with that feeling. Yeah, almost. Like the only, the only thing I know how to do in relation to that is go back and get to work

to try to make sure that doesn't happen again. Don't press anything. We've got more, what now, after this? We're not doing that. Like, we're not selling people out. And you're also not going to take our careers away. while we're fighting for black people and then be like, be the face of the thing that says we support black people.

Whilst not actually supporting. Yeah, that's interesting. Exactly. So you don't even have time to process the moment. You don't have time to process because it's the joy of reaching the Super Bowl. It's the historic occasion. It's your 10th start. It's a thing that wasn't promised to you,

but you were part of creating for yourself, being chosen and then stepping up to the choice. You don't even have time. You just got to get back in and then start working again. All of this is happening. You're in the NFL. You're playing football. And then, oh, man, like all of a sudden, like cat in an alley again,

another thing comes and tackles your life. And it's protests. It's America going through a period where it felt like every single week we were seeing police shootings of unarmed people, black men, oftentimes, most times. most times actually and then like the videos would contradict what the police was saying every single time it would be a statement the person did this and then the video would come and be like but they didn't do that and then you saw trust in society fraying it all of this was happening in the midst of that and you really lay this out beautifully in the book it's like you you have

this moment where you are you're basically processing everything that's going on and you make a decision. And I honestly, I hope that people who think they don't like you, and I'll say think because they don't know you, but people who think they don't like you, I hope if they only read one part of the book, I hope they read that part, because I think it's shaped so much of how people think your thought process works.

But it really showed me that there was no, quote-unquote, right way to do it because everything in every part of your story was what someone told you to do the other way around And then they shifted the goalposts. You shouldn't protest like that. You shouldn't have done it like, well, why didn't you do that? Why did you do that? Why didn't you?

Take us through that moment, please. Like, you know, because let's start at the beginning, the very first time that you decided to not stand for the anthem. What was going through your head? And where was this and how did it happen? So going back to the moment of first sitting during the anthem. Yeah. And it was August 14th, 2016. preseason game.

And to your point, this moment of reflection, an important context leading into that is for the years prior, I've been educating myself on black history, systemic oppression. we're trying to get a better understanding of why systems are moving and operating the way they are. And what that has looked like historically. In the midst of doing that, I get injured in the 2015 season. Three separate injuries. Tor my labrum, tore my UCL and my thumb,

tore my meniscus, had to get surgery on all three. Before you move on, actually, with the story, let's just rewind on this, because this part of the book was really revealing to me and it made me have a deeper level of empathy and respect for athletes. You made me realize in a really crystal clear way that we as fans take for granted

that the athlete is not necessarily completely aligned with the sports organization that they work for. No, because I know we're going to go down that story and we'll come back to it, but you just reminded me of something you talked about in the book about those injuries. when you were getting looked at by the team,

they didn't tell you that you had a torn meniscus. They didn't tell you that you had a torn... UCL. UCL. They didn't use those words. It was a contusion is what they said. Contusion, which is essentially a bruise. Yeah.

The minimization of a thing. Well, what you realize is the team doctors are paid by the team. Yeah, they're not your doctor. They're not your personal doctor. So they're not there for your well-being. Depends who you ask. But in practice, I just look at things from an incentive structure.

Yep. Make so sense. Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. Their incentive is to do what the team wants them to do and position things the way the team wants them to position it. So for me, I first injured my shoulder. They looked at, told me it was a contusion. I was like, all right, so I just have to deal with the pain.

Keep playing, keep playing. It was a game or two later. Get tackled with the football in my hand like this. My thumb splits. Oh, tear my legament here. And they look at it, like, oh, it's a contusion. Like, you just have to be able to deal with the pain. And through this process, every snap I take in practice,

excruciatingly painful. But I'll say you have to get into the mind of a football player as well. There is a difference between being hurt and being injured in a football player's mind. Being hurt is like, this may be extremely uncomfortable, but I'm not injured where I can't play. Okay. like part of the race within an NFL season or football season is what team can stay healthiest throughout this season. Yeah. So when they tell me like, oh, it's just a pain thing, you have to deal with the pain,

for me is, oh, I can do that. Right. If that's what I have to do, then I'll do that and I'll navigate it because I need us to win. The goal is winning. Pain just becomes an obstacle in that. Next game or a couple games later, get tackled, hit my knee, knee swells up, contusion. And the only reason I actually found out that these weren't contusions is because my now-wife, Nessa, is flying in from New York. and comes to visit me

and getting ready to lay down for the night. I'm laying on my back and I didn't know that the time but I had a tear in my labrum on the front of my shoulder. So if I just laid there like this, my humorous was putting pressure on the tear. So I was like, I can't sleep like this. Like, this is terrible.

So I stacked... I stacked pillows all around my arm so I could sleep on my back with my arm up. I was like, all right, this doesn't feel bad. So I'm doing that. And she looks at me and she's like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what is that?

You're like, isn't that how you sleep in New York? It's not the new thing. Well, it feels better if I sleep like this. You're like, you need to go to the doctor and get an MRI. What are you talking about? No, they just told me this contusion. Like, I'll be all right. Be all right.

Go to the doctor. So I go to the doctor, get an MRI, comes back, and they're like, oh, it's just, you know, it's just a little terror. Like, just a little terror, like, be able to deal with it. No worries. Can check it out at the end of the season. Yeah. At this point, I'm like, well, you told me it was contusion. now it's a tear.

Now you're telling me it's a tear. I'm going to get a second opinion that's not affiliated with the NFL. So I sent it off to a doctor in Vail, Colorado, Peter Millett, checked it out. And it was like, you have a significant tear. Like, you need to get surgery. I was like, well, they told me this.

Like, no, you need surgery, or you may tear the whole thing. So I'm like, all right. So at this point, I'm like, I don't even know how to approach this. Yeah. Hey, I have to go get surgery. It's what the doctor is telling me. And I don't trust y'all.

So I go back and I confront our head trainer at the time. And I, there's one of these things that in saying this, I know there's going to be reaction that people are going to be like, that didn't happen because that's too. wild. Traynor goes, oh, well, I told you it was a little terror because of my southern accent.

No. You know, it's just a little terror. A little terror. And why don't you go ahead and play more games, Colin? Why don't you go ahead and ignore that over there? It was blamed on the accent. He blamed it on his own accent.

Yeah, that's wild. When I tell you the the level of rage that I had. I can't imagine. I was like, I need to get out of this office because this is not good. This is also a sport way if I understand

your contract isn't guaranteed, right? Like it doesn't work like, so in the in the in like for instance in a Premier League football if you get injured, you still get paid. They pay you. Because they go you got injured doing the thing that we paid you to do. 100% on duty. And then I think basketball is the same.

In football, it's not like that, right? There have been a couple people that have been able to get guaranteed contracts. A couple. Yo, come on. There's two that I can think of. The fact that it's even called it guaranteed. This is crazy. But otherwise, like, your contract isn't guaranteed. They could cut you tomorrow and be like, hey, we signed you to a $100 million deal or a $300 million deal.

And actually, we may not like that tomorrow and we'll cut you. Wait, really? And we don't owe you that money. Oh, I didn't know what's that level. But then it's not a deal. But it is. It's not a deal. Deal with it.

We need to make sure you never get your own NFL TV team. You'd be a menace. This guy deal with it. Oh my goodness. NFL contract sounds like radio contract in South Africa. This is like, hey man. So what are you going to be doing next week? What do you mean?

Well, you're not going to be here. What do you mean? Exactly. So, okay, because I want to paint some context for the people there. So you're dealing with all these injuries. Now we, you know, we flash forward now. Yeah. Now this is you, you're injured, you in that season. So injured, as I go up to bail to get surgery.

Yeah. I also ask them, can you check out these other injuries or other areas that they told me were contusions? Right. Like, yeah, you tore the legament in your thumb, which is, that's my throwing hand. Right. Just like, navigate that. Did a scan of my knee, like tore your meniscus in your knee, had to clean that up. So at one point, I'm sitting in Vale.

I have a sling on my left arm. I have a cast on my right hand and I have a sleeve on my left knee. I was like, this is absurd. Like, I just need to get healthy. Right. I need to get back on field. But what it also did, this was the first time in my career that actually had to be still. Wow.

There was never another moment that was like, you can't go train. You can't go practice. You can't go. And I'm in Vail. I still have to go do my rehab. But the rest of the day I'm staying there, I'm like, all right, what will I do? Yeah. And continuing to read, continuing to research as part of this.

And it's months and months long as far as rehab. And during this time period, Mario Woods is killed. killed in San Francisco. And at that point in time, I was visiting my family at home. I'm sitting here watching the video. I was like, they just executed this man in the middle of the street. And the video looks like a firing squad. Like, police have him surrounded.

They said he had a knife and was threatening them. there was no scenario where he was any threat to them and they kill him you just you hear all of the officers shots just ringing out i'm sitting here i'm like this this is on the back of of mike brown tamir rice freddie gray like we're and those are just the High profile ones. Those are just the high profile ones. Back of Sandra Bland, like we've seen this so frequently at this point.

And it's like, what am I going to do? What can I do about this? And that actually became the moment that I call my wife Nessa. And I'm like, seeing this like, we have to do something. And we start thinking about what we can do. And that's actually where the birth of know your rights camp, came from. Oh, yeah, yeah. Is December of 2015.

And as we're building Noe Your Rights Camp, we're thinking about how we get our community home safe, how we protect them. As we were doing that, there was also a realization of what a low bar to set to be like, hey, let's make sure our community doesn't die. That then made us think about what other programs should we be building around this to help them thrive. And I think that ties into some of the perception you were talking about, even in relation to how we are described when it comes to journeys or where we're coming from, that's like,

we've set the bar down here for you so low that when you cross that bar, it's like success. It's amazing. Yeah. It's like, no, the bar should be here. It's just been low for so long that we've accepted. those things. Right. And so we're doing that work and as we're doing that, Alton Sterling is killed in Baton Rouge. Philando Castile is killed in Minnesota. And it just becomes this culminating moment where everybody's looking around saying we need to do something. We have to do something.

And the question becomes, well, then what are we going to do? And who's going to do it? And who's going to do it. And for me, the first time I protested, I was saying it's like, I don't believe in the propaganda of what you are selling me. I believe we deserve better. And in that belief led me to protest. And when it became public, wasn't until three games later or to the third game. That's what I mean by the significance and the detail is so important in this. One of the biggest criticisms that you experienced, and I think many people experienced, is that they did not protest in the correct manner. This is oftentimes the criticism.

People will say, they'll say, you know, Colin, I'm all for, we live in a country with First Amendment freedoms. You can speak your mind. I'm off, but do it in the right manner. Do it in a peaceful manner. Do it in a way that isn't disruptive. do it in a way that but just literally so people can hear from you

because you write this you write this literally your protest at the time was you sitting where saying on a Gatorade cooler That was it While the anthem's playing The man is sitting

On a Gatorade cooler It's not interrupting an anthem He's not cursing people out He's not fighting with people He's not no no He's just sitting quietly Us Tulele as we'd say Yeah

He's there He's just like He's He's quieted himself is the way we put it. It means like you are to yourself and you've quieted yourself. You know what I mean? And you bother no one. Three games, you're doing that.

It's not a thing. Then something happens. Then after the third game, finished playing. It's the first time I actually stepped back on the field coming back from my injuries. And clean up in the locker room our PR team comes over and they're like, hey, we just got a request from Steve Weish that he wants to talk to you after your press conference

about why you weren't standing during the Star Spangled Banner. I was like, oh, okay. And I could tell they were a little nervous. Yeah. And they... It was a high-pitched request. Hey, hey, um, we just... Hey, um, look, um, we just...

We just... Yeah. The part that definitely comes through is the hesitation and the stutter in it. Yeah, yeah. Like that. And you could tell there's something more there. I'm like, all right. So I go do the press conference.

Everything's fine. Talk to Steve Weish after. Talk to him on the side. he's like, hey, I want to ask you, like, why weren't you staying for the Star Spangled Banner? And given full explanation why I'm doing it, systemic oppression, what black people have faced, what we're seeing right now and police killing black people. And I remember he was like, you know what comes. comes with this, right? Oh, damn.

And Steve Weiss is a black man. Damn. He's like, you know the implications. I was like, in that moment, yeah. Because at that point, I had already been studying. History tells us this. Yeah. Whether is Muhammad Ali, whether it's Kurt Flood,

whether it's Tommy Smith and John Carlos. whether it's Mahmood, whether it's Kareem, like we have seen this. Yeah, Owens, yeah, you name us, yeah. Owen, like, it's not a new playbook. Right. And I said that to him in that interview. Like, I know this could cost me my job.

I know it could cost me endorsements. At the same time, I think for us collectively, we have to look at are the fear tactics and consequences that are potentially placed in front of us going to be the thing that stops us from doing what is right and what we know is right. Yeah, it's safety and incentive.

Yeah. And that, to me, that becomes the lever that is held over us. Yeah. Is because coming out of slavery, because coming out of Jim Crow, we have been put in a a socioeconomic position.

Yeah. It's like, yeah, there is more poverty. Well, you want to get more money, right? Like, you want to live a better life. What comes with those dollars is the expectation of that professionalism. Yeah. You look the way we want you to look. You act the way we want you to act.

You assimilate to the culture we want you to assimilate to. And to your point, anytime you stray off of that, that is like, well, we need to cut that thread and make sure that everything else stays intact. And the reality is the status quo of what we are living in isn't an acceptable one. The ball's too low. Not only is the bar too low is quite literally killing us. And that's not only is it killing us, it has been made legal to do so. Hmm. In full view.

In full view and also it puts us collectively in a position that is, well, do you just accept it? Do you hope it just misses you? Like it doesn't knock on your door. Yeah. And you just, all right, let me see if I just do the right things. I can avoid it. and ultimately what we see, it may not knock on your door,

it might knock on your neighbors or the rest of your family, like in some way or fashion, ultimately it is going to come back to you. The thing that people also don't realize, I know Barack Obama quoted Nelson Mandela on saying this, but Mandela said something that truly was one of the most powerful things and it's stuck with me in my brain forever.

these systems what a lot of people don't realize is they imprison everyone and he had the famous line he said he learned in his time in Robin Island you need to break these systems up because you need to free not only the prisoner but also the guard

and I think that's what made Nelson Mandela unique is that like he had a compassion for his captors that people didn't expect any human being to have he made friends with them we always talk about the stories he befriended and they had to rotate his prison guards so that they would not become... Friendly with him.

Yeah, but also sympathetic to his cause. Because when they spoke to him as a person, they were like, wait, this guy seems reasonable. This guy seems, actually, these are good points about the country. Because this is one of the biggest misconceptions I think people have. We always assume that we are all experiencing the same reality at the same time. Yeah. And so we judge other people for not coming to the same conclusions that we've come to,

Because we're like, but we're both seeing the same reality. You get what I'm saying? But what's interesting about it is when you realize you're not seeing the same reality, when you realize a huge majority of white South Africans did not know what the black experience was at all. Yeah. And it's not that they didn't care. No, they didn't. And how could they know?

The news didn't show it to them. When you read about Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., most of his campaign was him trying to get the images and the videos to the white people in America. because he believed, he's like, yo, if they see what's happening, they will then have a different understanding. And I think you, it's funny, you were almost, I know this is crazy to say, but you were almost like ahead of the curve. Because when Black Lives Matter really explodes,

when the pandemic hits, when people now no longer have the social or the socioeconomic constraint, you saw how they responded and the distraction. Black and white were marching in the streets. People collectively all over the world are saying, hey, man, something just needs to change. Imagine that. For a movement to move from the United States to Paris to Spain to. It can't just be like people being, yeah, yeah, me too.

I'm going to join in. It was like, no, actually, we didn't know that this was something that everyone was experienced. And actually, what are we doing here? And it needs to be done. Yeah, but the timing of when you were doing it made it so that you didn't have the cover of the collective. That's a good one. You know, so you were the one who sticks your head up first. So you get, you're in this world.

You know, you, you know, you, you pro, you go, you kneel with your teammates. It becomes, like, let's do it respectfully to be together. You need, that's still not accepted. Everything is not accepted. Everything. We go through this world and I'll speed through what now. People know. And I want to get to the other side.

Let people read the book. But I want to get to the other side that people don't know. For a lot of people, it felt like Colin disappeared. for a lot of people who's like, if the people don't know you, know your rights campaign, if they don't know you in your community gatherings,

for many of them, it was Colin disappeared. Where's Colin? There were moments where we saw you, you know, throwing the ball and saying, I'm ready to play in the NFL, but the NFL wouldn't have this. So just, you know, help us understand,

like, what happened in that end part? You know, they shut you out. You took them to court. I don't know what you can or cannot speak about, but what actually happened and how did that conclude? Yeah, so coming on the back of the protest, the NFL blackwalled me.

They couldn't get a job with any team. We did a full breakdown of this in relation to, was this going back to facts and stats? Historically, someone of my caliber that has performed the way I have, has there ever been a scenario where they haven't found a job after a season? not a single one. So the data supports that. The reality also supports it in relation to

to go visit the Seahawks. Everything they're asking is about the politics. Damn. The following year, they call me to come in for a workout. They've already said, like, we know you're a starter. Call me to come in for a workout before I get there or before I'm supposed to get on the flight. call my agent and are like, well, before he comes, will he commit to not taking a knee?

And I wouldn't commit to that. Cancel my flight. Workout never happened. So there are plenty of instances of this happening. And also just to be explicitly clear with it, no team has ever offered me a job at any position. Now as a starter, now as a backup, not as a practice. squad player. Damn.

No position whatsoever. So going from a starter to nothing. Yeah. On the back of that, filed a grievance against the NFL. That is laid out by the CBA process,

which is the collective bargaining agreement between the players union, the NFL. So you have to go through that process. Part of the terms of that process, which I would say candidly, I did not know going in is everything is confidential, which I thought there would be opportunity to expose all of that. Had a settlement with them, I'm going to say it is also interesting when we talk about systems

and incentives. You have to go through a special arbitrator as part of that process. That has agreed upon between the NFL and the NFLPA. at any point they can be fired by either one of those. Mid-appetration. I believe mid-arbitration, but also, from my understanding that agreement, at any point, they'd be like, we don't like you. So going back to incentives, that became a factor. Also during that time period, because we had looked at, can we take this to the Supreme Court?

Right. factor we also saw the supreme court flip under trump oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah cavanaugh gets elected um gorsuch gets uh put on the supreme court both of them backed by nfl teams and organizations um one by john elway in the Denver broncos the other by michael bidwell in arizona which then made that not a viable path So ultimately got to a settlement as part of that. As part of it, I was still able to seek employment. Yeah.

I can obviously still say what I want about the NFL. Right. But to the point of why haven't you spoken and those things. During the time period, I was protesting. It's fascinating to be a LSC perspective. Over and over again, I heard, oh, well, you're talking. talking so much, like, why is he always on TV? Why is he always have press conferences? Why is he always? Which, all of those were mandated by the NFL as a starting quarterback.

Like, you have to be available for the media three times a week. Yeah. That's your obligation. That's your obligation as part of your job. So I can't control what they're asking me, but what I can't control is I'm going to be honest when you do ask me. Right. So, the volume of that was significant during that 2016 season. Everybody was coming and asking. It becomes fuel in the flame. Yeah. And it's like, oh, we'll get clicks out of this.

Like, we like this. It's good momentum. On the back end of that, there was also a realization of within media, within society and culture, I had a sense that it was like, well, you are the leader. within this. And I was like that, to me, that's not an appropriate position of like the leader. It's like there's people doing work across the country. Yeah. That's extremely valuable.

And that needs to be elevated. And part of that is, and this is some of the learnings that we take from Ella Baker. It's like, not only do you need strong leaders, you need strong people. Yeah. We have to be strong collectively. Right, right, right. Which also means as someone who is viewed as a leader, there's times you have to step back and allow other people to step into leadership positions. And lead from the back.

And part of that was also the realization of like, as they were trying to discredit me, it was like, well, if they can discredit me, they're going to try to discredit the movement based off of that. Yeah. As a proxy. It's like, we'll make you illegitimate, which means anything that you are talking about is illegitimate. Yeah. It's like, that's not reality. So how do we elevate more people into that space? And for me, that is one of the pieces that was extremely important.

The other part is generally my leadership style is I'm going to do the work. and I have to do the work if I'm going to ask other people to do it. So while people may view it as, oh, you're silent or you're not on TV talking and doing these things, we're doing direct work in the communities. And we're doing across the country, we've done it internationally, and that became the focus of the efforts.

Like, how do we organize on the ground better more collectively? And now this becoming an opportunity, opportunity to be able to re-engage and reignite that and be able to take that further. But that work never stopped. Part of it just becomes like strategy around where we think we're going to have the biggest impact. What is your relationship with Jay-Z now? Where does that stand?

Because that's become like a Twitter guessing game. You know, people are like, Jay-Z said this. Colin feels that. I don't know anything about any of it. and I hate to assume but I just want to know because I'll lay out what I've seen and you'll tell me what is or isn't

but like some people frame it as if they go like Jay Z joined up, teamed up with the NFL to help them they said he was coming into like revitalize not just their image but the way they did the game based on you

and then the camp split some people say it felt like Jay Z didn't focus enough on the original messaging and focused more on the entertainment side of things and then the other camp goes no Colin went off and made his own deal

and that's why Jay Z and Colin don't see eye to eye and then the other day when he was like at one of his concert he said something about you

so like yeah in the freestyle how do you see the situation where does it land for you? Yeah I mean I I think we have

very different perspectives as far as how we operate as a people and for me there was a point in time Rock Nation was trying to recruit me to be represented

by them. Saw Jay-Z wear my jersey on SNL. So, I had tried to reach out to him previously. In part, just say thank you at that point for the support.

And wouldn't take a call, wouldn't take a meeting, which all good. It's strange, but okay. I agree, but... It's strange to me because you're wearing my jersey. That's the only reason I'm saying that. Yeah.

Absolutely. Makes sense. Yeah. That's strange, but okay. And your organization is trying to recruit. Right. Right. But I don't know what people have going on.

So I'm not asking for anything. Right. Now, on the back of that, he'd asked me to come on stage, take a knee while he performed story of OJ. I was like, that's weird. You won't get on a call with me, but like, you want me to do this. I was like, no. But would love to sit down if you have time.

My man. You're like, no thanks. I'll need to be a prop. Yeah. I'm good. It's all good. Right. But where the real issue came about was, I believe, he has started negotiating with the NFL in 2018.

During that time period, the NFL had built up an organization called the Players Coalition. to be able to end the protests in the NFL. Right. And explicitly giving them a payout to be able to end the protest. They came to an agreement. The next week, they stopped protesting. Yeah. Eric Reed, Kenny Stills were part of those meetings.

They were like, we are not doing that. They have been protesting with me from the beginning. So there was a split there. and part of what came in advance of that deal was a player's owner's meeting, where within that meeting it's Roger Goodell, it's Jed York and Bob Kraft and Terry Pagula, Stephen Ross, like all of the decision makers within the NFL. And Terry Pagula during that meeting, he's like, we need a black face. to help us lead this.

Now, I've never heard anyone explicitly say it that way. We need a black face to put out in front. And they tried that with the Players Coalition. That wasn't successful. And Jay-Z was the 2.0 version of that, in my opinion. And part of that is during the grievance process, we have all the documents. We have the discovery.

We have the insight of what was actually happening. During that process, prior to me coming to a settlement with them, they had also offered me that position. Damn. And it's like, we're going to continue blackballing you, but will you be the face of our social justice initiatives? And they offered this to me as well as Eric Reed. And there was a nice price tag associated with that.

I can imagine. It was like, no. I'm not going to do that. Eric was in agreement, we're not doing that. We're not selling people out. And you're also not going to take our careers away while we're fighting for black people and then be like, be the face of the thing

that says we support black people. Whilst not actually supporting. Yeah, that's interesting. Exactly. But he did that deal. And then during that process, this is where I just, I looked at as very disingenuous,

is he did an interview with Andrew Bean, I believe the Wall Street Journal. During that interview was asked, have you spoken to Colin about the deal that you just signed? And he said, no. The next day I get a call. Or I get a text. Hey, can you get on a call from Jay-Z?

I'm like, all right. Something must have happened because it's been a couple years or a few years at this point that I've been trying to have a conversation. You wouldn't get on the phone all of a sudden. It's like, hey, we need to get out a call. During that, shares, I did deal with the NFL. I was like, well, can you share, like, details of what it is. It weren't a whole lot of details at that point. I was like, I completely disagree with what you're doing.

And you're selling the culture out to people who do not care about the culture. And he was like, well, the ink is dry. I was like, well, that's, if that's how you feel, just keep my name out of it. And that was my one ask. Keep my name out of it. And the press conference the next day was we're doing the deal. We're past kneeling. We shouldn't be talking about calling.

We're moving on to action as if action hadn't been happening for years. And on the back of that, what we saw was, and we got direct calls on this. They had been putting out hit pieces on us in trying to plant stories. oh he's already had a job he doesn't want to play and we had journalists call us and be like hey we're like we got these calls from rock nation like is this is this true like what's that it's like no absolutely that's not true so a bunch of them came back and we're like oh well we're not going to run those pieces and then it was like oh well we're going to run an ownership story like maybe he'll become an owner or whatever

So it pivoted. But we saw a definitive effort to try to disparage me in that process. Like, we got the calls. And for me, that's where it's like, I can disagree with what you do. But I'm not going to maliciously go out there and try to derail what you're doing. Right. Yeah. Like that's a...

Home align you. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that's a different type of action. I don't care to parts of. take it. Man, your life, the craziest part of it is that it's not even finished. Yep. It's already like multiple movies. I know you've already made one. You talk about that in the book with Ava Duvinae. The one thing I'll say to you is honestly, thank you. Thank you for, for, thank you for how you've

shared your story. And I genuinely hope everyone reads the book before they say anything. Just before they say anything. Because then you see like every shadow and every light you see every complexity, every grain, every wrinkle, every detail, then have your opinion. But like, you've written, you've written a really beautiful book when you've told a really wonderful story. I think it's nuanced. I think it's layered. I don't think you can just come out with like one flat idea. You know, I loved your parents. I also felt bad for them. I felt bad for you. I enjoyed parts of the NFL. The parts I got angry about, you know, thought about justice, thought about the system. And the biggest shout out I have to give, yo. Oh, that's the book. There's,

there it is. There it is. Oh, yeah. Hold that up. Hold that up. This right here, man. This, let me tell you something. Biggest shout-out. Because I think a lot of the time the shout-out won't be said because it isn't mentioned as clearly as it is here. 100%. The lady in your life. Let me tell you something, man. Nessa? Exceptional. Let me tell you something. Nessa, your wife, the way you talk about her in this book, she is one of the structural walls in the house that is Colin Kaepernick. You talk about her in the foundation of your program. You talk about her. In the foundation of your program. You talk about it. her in helping you recover and looking at what you need to do to your body. You talk about what she's done for your mind. You talk about how she supported you when the whole world was against you.

You talk about how you strategize together, how you live together, how you laugh together. You talk about the birth of your child and how stressful that was, how terrifying it was, how painful it was. I think a story that many couples, many women, many men can relate to, you know, almost losing a newborn child. But man, the fact that you don't tell the story as if it is only yours, you just tell it from your perspective is honestly one of the goaded things I've ever seen anybody doing their book. So shout out to Nessa, because I know this isn't without her. And it's amazing that you've told the story

so that she's not a footnote that people then have to try and find later on in life, man. Thank you for that. Because Nessa is exceptional. And it's one of the things that I think goes underappreciated. Yeah. is when we think of, for me, when I think historically, when we think of...

Oh, yeah, Correa Scott King? Come on. We think about Coreta. Oh, Winnie Mandela, you name it. You could just keep going down a list. Exactly. And all of the women that have been leaders in their own right. Yeah, yeah.

And for me, one of the special moments that we had early on is we got to spend time with Lonnie Ali. Wow. And she was giving us. insight in preparation for what was to come. Wow. And how we should be thinking about it. And that was from her own lived experience.

She's phenomenally strong. And when I think about what Nessa has done, what she's accomplished in her own right, and how she has supported me, I wouldn't be sitting here today in this way if it was not for her. Yeah, you can feel that. So I appreciate you calling that. Oh, man, we appreciate you. This has been amazing. Colin, thank you so much. Thanks to your team for making the time, taking the time.

I don't think it wasn't, of course. This has been amazing, man. For real, man. Thank you so much. Of course. Of course. And as we would say back home, you're welcome. You are welcome to join us anytime.

I appreciate that. Genuinely, brother. Thank you so much for this. True, gentlemen. Thank you. This segment is brought to you by YouTube Premium. You know, I've been thinking about how some of the most interesting ideas I come across aren't from conversations that I'm a part of, but it's the ones that I

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