What Now? with Trevor Noah - Finding Meaning in a System Built to Fracture You with Josh Johnson

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

In this episode, Josh Johnson’s signature hilarious introspection is on full display as he shares stories with Trevor and Eugene about everything from childhood bullying and nunchuck mastery to coming into his own as a comedian and providing for the people he loves most. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Put your hands together for Josh Johnson. The newest correspondent, he's an Emmy winner. He's got millions of followers online. Wired Magazine called him the funniest guy on the internet, and that's the big place. Josh is putting out a weekly special every single Tuesday on his YouTube channel. I'm going to have to sit there listening, watching the Super Bowl halftime show to Spanish. I'm going to have to sit there with my guacamole and my chips in my lap, listening to Spanish. His channel has gotten over 350 million views, and all this success.

Success has actually landed him a hosting spot on The Daily Show. He has a dream that one day he will not be judged by the content of the Epstein Files. I can't stress enough how much I'm enjoying what I'm doing and like how obsessed I am with comedy in general. This is What Now with Trevor Noah. That's it. Do you remember you had a gag about that, Eugene, back in the day? About Dexter? There was a joke.

What are you looking at? Who are you doing? I'm looking at something. Do you remember me there was a joke you? I feel like it was you. You had a joke about how it was something about like attempted murder. Yeah. Ah, man.

Tell me more. Oh, man, what was, it was, I feel like the premise was something to the effect of you should get like more of a punishment for attempted murder than murder because like attempted, like you're not good at what you did. It wasn't you? Maybe it was me then. That's so funny. Does that ever happen to you? Yeah, I've, I've definitely been like, this came to me too easy. I wonder like, is somebody, and then I look back in my notebook and I wrote it and then forgot about it.

Yeah. Sometimes I think it's... Are you sure? Yeah. I'm going to go look and see if I ever... This logic is solid, though. Yeah. Because, like, if somebody try to hit you in your eye,

they hit you above your eye, you get more mad. Because you're like, you try to hit me in my eye. My one was, like, if we could figure out a way to make a body disappear, more murders would happen. Because it seems like a body. Once someone is dead, that thing becomes very famous. Oh, so if we just, like, if it just evaporated... Yes.

But now the body is very hard to disappear. Huh. People roll it in carpets, put it in drums, poor acid over it, put it in dust bins, to get rid of it. Yeah. People will make the whole mess bigger or they'll make the thing they got to get rid of bigger. Because if you put a body at an oil drum, that's a bigger thing you got to move. Yeah. And it becomes heavier.

I never thought of it like that. No, my squat is already bad. So then just to get the body. Because you also don't think, look, if you commit a crime of passion, you don't factor it. You're going to be tired. So then now you've killed somebody. I think first is regret. Hopefully, if you're not like a sociopath.

But even sociopaths only have so much muscle. So then now you're like, all right, I got to move the body. And it's like trying to move a body, I am mad. If you've ever caught a person, do you have I mean? Yeah. If you've ever, like, tried to pick someone up. Especially dead weight. Yeah.

Like there's a reason they call it that. Yeah, there's reasons why people wake. their partners are from the couch. Yeah. Like, hey, hey, hey, yeah. You got to go now. Yo, got to go sleep. Yeah.

100%. 100%. Because there are people that think they could pick people up because you pick someone who was excited up for sex. If there was a crime that you had to commit, what crime would you trust yourself best to commit? This feels like it'll end up in a deposition. Wire fraud, maybe.

Look into that. That camera. Say that to that camera, too, Josh. Because here's the thing about wire fraud. Here's the thing about wire fraud. Everybody already does it by accident. Wait, what is wire fraud again? In America, like, there's, like, to me, my understanding of, like, wire fraud is, like,

misrepresenting a transaction. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm pretty positive that that's most of Enmo. Like, most of Venmo is like what your payment was. Yeah, it's like, you're lying. This is. Do you write the real? thing? I try to write the real

thing, so I remember the real thing. I've had to pay people before for like a service. Like, I'll pay someone and it'll be like a studio, like a music studio. And so I'll just say studio time. I don't say sandwich. That's boring. You've got to say sandwich, Josh. That's what makes Venmo

fun. What crime would you perform? Is when you, who me? Yeah. If I feel like crime is a performance. If I had to pick a crime, it's planned, there's rehearsals, there's costumes. If I had to pick what I think I would be best at if it was committing a crime I think I've always thought I'd be like a good getaway driver

That's what I would pick So like aiding and abetting would be your getting away Like the driver I'll just be the driver We jump in Drive you know like the transporter those kinds of Yeah I'm like I think I would do that I think I would be I think I'd be really good I'm just going off of the court term

Like I think you'd be like aiding and abetting a heist Like a robbery Wouldn't you just be part of it if you if you're the driver Is that what they they give you less of a sentence? I'm positive they give you left of a sentence because sometimes there are people who have the plausible deniability of like especially if you're just like criminals

and we aren't boys so then I get pulled in to do this thing I can be like hey he put a gun in my head and say a drive I was just chilling but if there's four people that go we did not you could also just say like you were just driving these people but you know why yeah yeah

I'm a it's an Uber it's a very tough I wonder if you could get away with that yeah I wonder if you could I wonder if you could be an Uber driver who's planning to rob a bank with your crew you wait outside a place they jump in, you run and if they catch you

no but if they like you go like I thought it was my fare I wonder if that would I wouldn't want you I'd get you excuse for my jury that's what I would do that is also a thing You're a skeptical person here

do you know I mean like people people have done a crime and then got in an Uber and the Uber driver was like guys I don't know his person at all but why did he give you five stars nobody gives five stars what crime would you commit

I think already being a comedian you're committing the biggest crime of them all damn by doing what making them believe that what you say is real you've thought about this when did that start by the way what stand up no no no no

no I'm saying like when did that start like you know podcasting yeah to radio presenters is a crime it shouldn't exist okay yeah because they're thinking

this is I have a boss. I got voice training. I read. The next thing you know, you know what the thing is, which crime would you? You know me, I work for a living. So already this, in another planet, alternate universe, the crime. Yeah, but what I'm going back to is the stand-up thing. Yeah. When did that start? I don't know. How long have you been doing stand-up, Eugene? Sure. Maybe Labo Ma. I'm drank 50 years. Okay, so almost 17. 17 years, Josh. I am at almost 13. 13 years, yeah.

So same, 17, 17, 17, maybe 18 hours. No, we start at the same time. So whatever your number is, must be my number. But I remember a time when, like, comedy was the thing that wasn't real, and you would say it on stage. And then one day, comedy was the thing that was real, that even if it wasn't real, doesn't make sense. Yeah.

I feel like some of that happened with, like prior because he was telling us his real life you think it oh with richard prior yeah and i think that he was telling us his real life and he was like giving us like cultural takes off of it in a way that hadn't in it had been very danger field up until that point it had been very like i have a schick or here's like my character on stage yeah yeah or even if i am actually married i'm not talking about my wife i'm talking about the idea of a wife and richard prior was like no this is This is what I do when I'm not on stage. This is where I come from.

This is also how I actually feel when you see me in the street and like something racist happens, this is how I feel about it. So then everything with Richard Pryor, even if he was embellishing now, he'd literally have to talk about like a person flying for you to not think he wasn't talking about his life. Because he started talking about like his life. Like that was that was him. And I think even if people did it, you know, before him, he was one of the first. people to get popular doing it so he gets kind of like a credit for doing it at such a high level. Do you remember when your comedy became more about the real? Because I, let me think of when I first saw your comedy.

First time I saw Josh Johnson's comedy, I think it was around just before when you joined the Daily Show. And you weren't surreal, but you were definitely doing stuff that wasn't like real, real. Yeah, I was like very silly. and oh thank good you saw oh man this man saw me just in time if you had seen me

two weeks before if you had seen me two weeks before we didn't even know each other like this where what do you mean because I was like you start out and you're like a version of yourself but you're like you're such a baby in the things that you like doing

and you're such a baby in like what you what you even know works for you so now if you gave me like 10 topics and you told me to write 10 jokes off of or if you asked me if they relate to 10 stories in my life, I could find that and I could find how that relates to an audience. If you did it right before you met me,

maybe the day before you met me, I'd be like, ah, oh, I'm just keep working at the grocery store because this seems too difficult. I don't know, man. I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you've always been a, I can't imagine you not being, not this version of comedian, but not this version of Josh. Like, I'm yet to meet a good comedian. who I don't think I could meet as themselves as a child.

Oh, that's interesting. That's very interesting. Like what was little Josh like? You know what I mean? Yeah, it was, you know what it is now? To your point is that I feel like I, it took me, if you want to talk about like a journey, it took me up until now to find the place in the jigsaw where I fit in.

So it's like, I've changed the way that people change from kid to adult. but I haven't changed fully and so like it was me not fitting for the entirety of my life up until two years ago and now I like everything that everything I know to do that's like true to me makes sense now

as opposed to like I was a version because ooh the story I told you when I was in when I was in college I went to like my first bar and I was like oh y'all this markup bad y'all know if we just buy the bottle at the store we could have a we could, y'all could get so much more drunk

and so I'm not even drinking and I'm ruining everybody's time because I'm like guys no, y'all saw at the store where this buy was $13 but the cocktail $13 so like this is crazy right and then everyone's just holding their drink like

yeah yeah and now I know now I know where to do that and it's like oh yeah now you need it now now I've aimed it now now I've aimed it to where it's like, I'm not doing it all the time to everyone, to everything. Yeah. And I've aimed at like, okay, this is the thing you say for stage.

And not even every stage. Because when you do a comedy club, there'll also be people being like, oh, yeah, they are making me buy two drinks and an insane market. This is what you say for like, you're doing an outdoor event. You're doing a state fair. It's like your inside voice and stage voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's essentially what it is.

A hundred percent. Do you apply the same logic when we think of maybe we see a comedian or an actor? then you go you know your uncle tells the same stories and you pay him nothing you mean like about the funniest people because you edit the markup

yeah you know I used to think that and then I started to understand at least for me the difference between being a comedian and being a funny person so I often tell people

I'm and I mean this genuinely I'm not the funniest person I have known in my life ever ever ever like by far by far by far there are too many people in my world where I go thank you Eugene

I've seen you You have moments. Thank you so much, Eugene. When you put on the Puss and Boots. Man, this is why you got to have good friends. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. When you're also in your insecure moments, I think you're the funniest.

Thank you so much. How's my Afro today? Oh, man. Did I get the back? That actually wasn't a joke, but okay. Thank you. Ooh, actually. That wasn't.

That wasn't. While we're on the topic of the Afro, one thing I'm very jealous about with you is that because this is my thing. Look, look, look, just between us, right? Yeah. I was doing. I was doing. I was doing.

I was doing it. I was like doing, I was doing an Afro for a long time. And what I was doing was like not correct. Like it was, it was like falling off of my head a little bit because it was getting so big that the right side was bigger than the left side. Yeah. And it was just, it was, my mom would tell me I look like a spaceship, right? And then, and then Trevor goes all natural.

You know how bad your hair has to be for your mom's roasted? Because moms are the last people. Last night. Do you ever see anything wrong about you? Yeah. And your mom was like, hey, what's going on? spaceship boy. If the battle star hasn't arrived.

I would go home and my mom would ask me what the plan was. And I was how bad, wait, okay, so I remember this Afro. Yeah. Yeah, but what was the, so. So then when you, when you started growing out your hair, but you had like a plan, you were like, oh, come, growing out. And you were like reasonable about it. That was what, like, really clued me into what I was doing.

No, no, no, no. I think you're being kind. I didn't have, I never, because remember where it started, COVID was like the real, the real kickoff, right? Yeah. That's the jump off. That's where my hair starts growing again. Up until then, I was like, you got to cut your hair, got to cut your hair, got to cut your hair, got to cut your hair. Yeah, for work.

Yeah, for work and for school and for like, everyone tells you, cut your hair, cut your hair, cut your hair. There's a certain way to look, cut your hair, cut your hair, cut your hair, COVID comes, can't cut your hair, can't cut your hair, can't cut your hair. Then we're like deep into the pandemic, no one's cut their hair. Then restrictions started like calming down a little bit. People were like, all right, maybe you can go to a. barber maybe you can but i was like i don't know man don't want to sit in a chair and then people are coughing on me and now i'm in i was like i don't want to risk it for a haircut there's no there's no haircut in my world that is worth dying for okay okay this is how you can tell somebody has a good

face because they're like there's no haircut worth dying for no no no you don't know Worth dying with their people When you Josh is like Some of you should die No, no I'm just saying That like this is a person

Who's put together Where it's like Ah, it's just hair There are some people They're hanging off by a thread Who are like By hair My suit got to be

You have me Because they just know they're working With less I hear you What I'm saying is This was death We were talking about Remember this

This is death Yeah No I'm with you So we're going to booty calls, my man. Yeah. And what happened to some of them? They died because of that. Some of them have babies.

Okay. But some of them are dead. Some of them are dead. Those things are wild. Yeah. Ha! So this is what I'm, okay, so this is what I'm saying is we were all in this journey together, right?

I think the difference between you and I was that because I was like on camera all the time, there were more people who felt like they couldn't just let me go on with like someone someone along the line randomly was like hey man at least get a lineup that's what someone would say

Yeah someone would be like Same things you say to me You'd be like yo man at least Yo come on man at least You know people would be like Look like someone's child Just look like someone's child That's what they would say to me right

Now I think the only difference between you and I is because you were not in front of the camera At that time Sure sure Nobody was like you weren't shaming other people. You were just shaming yourself.

Yes. With the spaceship box haircut. Because it would be like I would do like a virtual live show or like a whatever. Yeah. And then people in the chat would be like, hey, these are people who pay it a dollar to get into the thing. And they'd be like, hey, my man, like I know this time, been rough on everybody. I don't, like, it would be like that. Damn, Josh.

You're a strong man. I would feel so insecure. You, Josh and I used to roll, and we both had. At some point, it looked like the theme of the tour that we were on was unruly hair. But Josh's hair got so big and weird that sometimes he'd be on stage. And you know when the cameras, like, got a shot of you, the background would be black. But Josh's hair was so big, it had three different colors. the hair closest to his head was the darkest

and then it would get lighter and lighter but because of the background and the darkness of his hair it looked like Josh there was nothing no it looked like there was nothing and on top of it there was like a floating he looked like he was wearing one of those Russian hats

you look like he was wearing one of those Russian furry hats because I did a thing that was just out of pandemic that was like it was at the cellar and they did a live stream slash like taping of it and they had extra lights because they had cameras and so then those extra lights I saw

it later and I see what you were talking about I was like ah this is and it it looked like you literally put on that hat it was like your thing yeah Josh you're on in five minutes hold on let me get my hat yeah because because then I think when when you the first time you got a like a cut from how it had grown yeah yeah was when I was like um Oh, life could be different. Life's very different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for you now, I mean, like, life is very, very,

life is different in every way I can think of. It's been so much fun watching it from my perspective because I've known, like, multiple versions of Josh in how life is, like, responding to you, if I can put it that way. Yeah, no, that's fair. So I knew that Josh who, you know, I met you, you were already working at,

you're working at Jimmy Fallon's show when I met you, No, no, I had just left. Okay, so you just left. So I was just like touring. Yeah, but I knew you as like, okay, comedian was like doing things and whatever. But you were this guy who was like, hey, man, I don't know what's going to happen.

I'm seeing what the world is going to throw my way. I'm just trying to hustle. I'm writing a joke doing a thing here. And then, you know, then you went through the hair phase. And it was like, all right, I'm still hustling. And also, you see my hair. And I don't know where this is going. Yeah, I don't know where this is going.

And then, oh, And then Josh went through this face. Yo, then Josh started lifting. You remember when you started lifting? Yeah. The time we had nunchucks, yo, this man. Yeah, it was around then. Yo.

Yo. Yo. This man. This is a horrible time to meet a person. Because he met me during nunchucks, which is also just like, oh, this is guy that is one of the most random moments to meet a human being. To speak with a chain. Why did you have nunchucks?

I was like, look, you can't have. You can't have a gun, but people are crazy in New York. And I don't know, like, we thought, like, a lot of people thought it was, like, low-key the end of the world. We were just being chill about it. So I was like, I need something. And you thought Nuncheon's with a solution? And I don't get a sword.

And so, like, I'm like, let me just have something that's like a little bit. And then I saw the news report, because there was a news report about how they had lifted. There was like a Nunchuk band in New York City. Yeah, it was for a while. And then when they lifted it, I was like, I was like, hey, then we ride. And if I get good. Then I at least get, it extends my safety one more arm. Do you know what I mean?

Wait, hold on. I can defend myself one more arms late the way. Just one further. Yeah. I think if Nunchucks work, cops would have had them. Sure. But they do have none. They have a version of Nunchak.

They have the baton. They have the same. The baton is like a version of a nunchuk for a less skilled individual. And you know why the baton works? Because it's like, it's like idiot. You know why it works? No, because it's simple. Let's let the Nunchak expert here tell us why.

That's why a baton, would you want to go in a fight with me if I had a baton and then you had nunchugs? Who do you think would win? Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's how I'll put it. Okay. The baton is more practical. The nunchuk is crazier.

Would you rather fight someone who maybe isn't skilled? This is what I'm talking about. Or would you rather fight someone who you knows bites? Because nunchuk is the bite. It's like I might hit you. I might hit me. I'm crazy. You never know.

That's why there's a phrase called blunt instrument. because anyone can use it. What you have is Nanshak is requires a skill set. Me, if I'm angry enough with a baton, you are dead. You have to know a certain level of skill to manage Nanshack. Because Nunchak's almost like a boomerang. Because people never account for the fact that you have to wait for it to come back. And it only comes back if it doesn't hit anything.

Yeah. So Pummerang goes, then it goes. Yeah. Then you hold. Yeah. What? Nunchak is the, yeah. Then you hope better people.

I believe that you're going to be hoping it hit something. Yeah. Because it can also hit you. You've experienced that, nah? When Nunchat's come back. Are you good at Nunchucks now? No. Oh, damn.

What a waste. Not at all. No, no, no. I thought you at least got to like the arm stage. I got to the arm stage, but the arm stage is half. That's a wrist away from me. I need to be good at the, you know what I mean? If I'm good at this, when you're really good at the Bruce Lee stuff,

that, somebody could still get very close to you. you like it like yes but here's my thing with nunchucks why are you going to shoot you who's you whoosh whoosh who that doesn't account for you hitting anyone no it does it does because then if you're in here yeah if you're in here yeah bow like you string it out yeah now you can't see it so you don't know what direction i'm about to swing it from under my arm and let's say you hit me and then what happens to the nunchak that left because there's two of them i mean there's one that you're holding yeah and there's one that hits you what happens to the part that hit me the part that hit you goes down. But now that it's

down, I can hit you in the back of the head. You see, this guy was in it. You know what I'm loving? I've seen Josh those nunchucks. Yeah, you don't seem so. He self-defense himself more. He protected himself from himself. 100%. You don't know what I'm imagining? I'm imagining the person

who was walking through New York City seeing you with your spaceship pair and the nunchucks. And then they were like, I need to go to self-defense training because New York is full of crazy people. No, because I'll tell you right now The hair saved my life

Because then I'm over here practicing And I bought two practice ones I bought one that was like foam Okay But the phone one is like It's gonna break in a day Like you can't That's how dangerous these things are

Do you I mean? Yeah, yeah The phone one you can't So then you have to use the wooden one Because I was never going to buy the metal one Because the metal one You could accidentally kill somebody And now it's swinging from your hand

But you're like Uh Uh And you wait You mean accidentally kill someone. Aren't you trying to defend yourself? Because, okay, the same way where you're trying to defend yourself and you know out a box and then you punch somebody on the chin, right?

But you end up knocking them out and they fall. And the way they fall, they die, right? It's like that could happen. The metal nudgeuck is for murder. Like that one I still don't think should be legal. We'll be right back after the short break. This message is brought to you. Buy Apple Card.

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Can we go back to the episode? What's the first fight you were ever in as a kid? Like the biggest, like the fight you remember. Did you ever fight? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, well, fight implies a link that I made the fight continue. I was, like, beat up sometimes as a kid. Yeah.

But, like, I would, like, try to fight back. Who was beating you up? Just other kids. Like it was, and it wasn't even like, were these like bullies, bullies, or were these just other kids? Two of them were like bullies, bullies. Okay, yeah, yeah, okay. But like, but the thing is, it's like the same awareness that I think a kid doesn't have of like where their elbow is so they knock a glass over is the awareness of like strength that I lacked for something I wanted to do. So like, like, for instance, there was one time I like stood up to a bully.

Like I really like stood up to him and it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's set the scene. What was their name? We all remember our bully's names Look I won't say his name Yeah I will say his name But it rhymes with A wheat

Okay Wheat And so then You know Been picking on me So Pete is Pete the bully We got

We got Pete or wheat Man you must know one I don't know one Anyway But then How old are you? I have to be Maybe eight

Okay. Or like nine, so like that. And I had had enough of it, right? And I just like, and I even had like a little speech planned if he, if he like came up on me, rolled up on me, mess with me, right? And so I said all the stuff. And then I like reared back, which he was also surprised by. Like this is also I could tell as a big kid because he was more surprised than threatened. He was like, wow, something's about to happen.

It was crazy. And then I reared back and I punched him as hard as I could. and I managed to punch him like in the in the chin a bit like like like like yeah like back jaw right and then he like grabbed his face because also when you're a kid and nobody's like really hit you or hit you back yeah yeah it's surprising so you know he's like and then he walks away and then as soon as he walks away I'm like like I'm like grabbing my head because I hadn't like put it together that this would hurt yeah no one shows I mean in the movies they don't show you that.

And they're the most part. Yeah. And they're not hurt. Like Bruce Lee never finished the fight after everybody was down was like, ah, ah, ah. Like, this never happened. Jackie Chan did. Yeah. He was the, he was the, he was the, he's what got us closer to John Wick.

Yeah. Because John Wick will end the fight and be like, oh, oh, God. I still don't like that he got hit by a car and carried on. That boys threw me, John Wick. Didn't he jump a bit? it? Man, I don't know. He jumped a bit, though. I don't know. You know what?

I really like John Wick, the movies. But you also like The Matrix? Yeah, but he's the same guy. Yeah, but the difference there is, it's not the real world. So I'm, John Wick gets hit by a vehicle. And then he just gets up and... Which one is not the real world again? Between John Wick and the Matrix.

No, the Matrix is not the real world. Oh. What I'm saying is in John Wick. John Wick is the real one. You know what, Josh. carry on. So a geriatric version of

Neo. Josh, let's carry on. This guy's trying to... Where instead of being led by a black man, he's led by a dog, is more...

It's much more real than... He's in... He's in... Because they said it wasn't anyway. So, wait, wait. Did the bully ever come back?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, different day. But yeah. And then by then I was like... So this isn't like a victory story. This isn't like Josh Johnson. No. I won a half a battle

and I lost the next battle. Like, it wasn't even a war. It was just like, I was just an easy target too because I think I'm openly, like, sensitive and I am not like a big guy. So I never had a big frame growing up. So even in high school, the people who picked on me was like, yeah, it's like easy picking.

It's like I look like I almost don't exist in my clothes. Yeah, I mean. Yeah, you're sweets. Poetic. You are, you're timid in your vibe. Like just as Josh As I've always known you You're really considerate

You're a perfect like bully fodder In that way And it doesn't help that I was always like When your head is down from reading You're a perfect target for anything I'm like reading all the time I'm like reading for fun And so now I genuinely don't know

what's about to happen Until the book gets slapped up my hand And then I look up And I'm sure any bully that saw me Was looking at me And I was looking at them like Like just because I'm the shock of like the books on the floor what's about to happen yeah yeah you know what I mean so and I and I

don't think I like carried an awareness for defense enough ever really until until maybe like I really became an adult even being in Chicago I was like look apparently you know especially when you go to like some some clubs were like on the south side and people would either you would either know something happened or people would say something that just happened yeah at some point. And so I was like, all right, like, I'll be fine. I'll just run. And then whatever bullet hits me was meant for me. Did you have me? You were never about that life. You were never like, I'm going to stand up, fight, do a thing, handle it. No. No, even when I tried to like roll with other kids that were like tough, they were even like, you're too sweet for this

thing. Like, you're not like a tough. Like, even kids in my neighborhood would be like, yeah, but you're not like. I like that. Yeah. I mean? No. I just, you know, I look. I look. At the time, I looked back on it as like, why is everybody so, what is it? Why is everybody so, like, patronizing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now I look at it as if, like, almost, and, you know, whatever, this is going to sound, however it sounds, but it's like almost by, like, some truly, like, divine design. Everybody that was in my life was put in my life for a reason helped keep me on the right path. Even when I wanted to do something bad, they, like, they, like, made it so it's like,

like I didn't even have the opportunity. Like, all these things came together. Even the people who like push me out of their life, it's like, their life went in like a horrific direction. So it's like they push me. It's almost like pushing someone out of the way of a car because I'm like, I'm trying to like roll with this kid or be like this kid. And then this kid is like, hey, this is like not for you.

And then something even ends up happening to that person or they go down a worse path or something. So now everything that's happened, like I can be nothing. but grateful because like at the time I'm sure especially when I used to this is going to sound self-deprecating and it's not meant to be but like the realization that I've I've come to about myself especially over time is that like all of the things about me that I like and that people like are because I'm not like conventionally cool like I'm not like a cool guy who is like wow I want to be like that guy the way you want to be like

like James Dean like I'm not that I'm not that type of guy so if I if I stop trying be that type of guy and I just like hey look I like Rubik's cubes I like comic books I like and you just you just become it's things we've been taught as we're little the best version of yourself the best like the most honest version of yourself that's where all of your like cool will come from because everyone who likes those things will be like wow you openly like those things. Like, I'm like, I'm over here doing the Rubik's Cube when it used to get slapped out your hand. And now people on the internet are like, he did it in a point four seconds. Yeah, now it's become a, yeah. But it's like if you're like an oh, if you're like an OG of that

thing, and don't get me wrong, I wasn't even good. So now me watching me do the Rubik's Cube was a waste of time. Because it wasn't like I was like, hey, Trevor, you want to see something cool? It'd be like, hey, Trevor, you want to see something cool? can you mess it up again can i restart it's like it's like that but then like i said everything in life led me to the point at least in the feeling of about two years ago where everything fits in a place i felt like i fit in at different points in my life when i lived in chicago i and started doing comedy yeah i finally had the like conduit i finally had the vehicle for all these things I had ever been and ever done and ever talked like and ever, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

And then found my people. And then moving into New York felt like it did feel like a mistake for the first like six months. It did like genuinely it felt like maybe I had made a mistake until I got hired at Fallon. But everyone that I was meeting, I used to do storytelling open mics, comedy open mics. I used to do variety shows, like all this stuff like that. Were you working at that time doing like a job job, as they said? Yeah, I was like working at grocery store. In New York. Yeah.

What type of grocery store? The Trader Joe's variety. Okay. What were you doing there? Everything. Like I was a cashier. I did everything but fill orders because I was like, y'all, if you make me. Because they would try.

Anytime you have a good attitude and like you're on time. So people start trying to give you more responsibility because they're like, this is the person that won't mess it up. But I'm like, y'all, I know my limit. And if you put me on freezer, you're going to have. have 6,000 ice creams and no frozen turkey. Like, I'm just, I'm telling you that right now. I don't have that attention to detail, you know. And so I was like cashier, didn't want to become a manager, didn't want to become an assistant

manager. Why not? Because in my head, I was like, I thought I had found, and I'm glad I was wrong, because I wouldn't be here now. But I've worked at a couple grocery stores and I've worked, you know, odd jobs and stuff like that. And I found that, like, at least in most situations, I can be happy. And so I was making enough to live, but I hadn't met any of my goals yet.

But I was still doing stand-up at night. And so I was, like, happy. Like, even in unhappiness, happy. You know what I mean? Like, you deal with terrible customers or you, like, you're low on money so you've got to eat. Dude. I've talked to us before, but I knew I was broke in Chicago. When they put the door-knocker thing for the pizza on there, my roommates and I, we see it's a deal because this place just open.

Yeah. is five no it's three pizzas for $15 so it's like every pizza $5 whatever we each order a pizza we get violently sick and I knew I was broke because I was like next day I'm like I'm gonna eat one more slice and then I got to be done with this place but like in the off chance I was just sick and then my roommates were like what do you mean you were just sick we all threw up and I was like yeah but look maybe this slice will be different And then I'll throw the box away. But, like, I don't have money to just waste.

I gotta give the slice a chance, man. Yeah, yeah. And so I just found that I was happy. I was so happy in Chicago, literally just making ends me, but could not even save money, but I was doing stand-up at night and figuring myself out and everything. And I feel like now it's just a reminder to, like, stay in that place, even as circumstances change. Because now it's like, okay, like I'm not completely broke, but like, what do I need? And it turns out I don't need much.

If I can take care of my mom and take care of my aunt and just take care of myself and my girlfriend, put on good shows, nothing else really matters. So that I don't really need that much money. And so now if you don't need that much money, you don't need to do whatever, whatever, whatever. So now some of that noise gets like shut out a little bit because like, yeah, sometimes you'll be in a situation where somebody wants you to do this thing, somebody wants you to do this thing. And if you don't really know what you want, you might end up doing it and not liking it or looking back on and not liking it. And I'm not saying I love everything I've ever done completely. But like the path that the internet and the people that I'm meeting along the way have allowed me is to like do things that. that are completely consistent with how I feel about how my career should go

and building a catalog that I think will like stand alone like like yeah something that you're proud of because you wanted to do it for the reasons that you wanted to do it which is a unique moment to get to yeah as an artist but I think as any any human on this planet I was thinking about this morning exactly what you're saying I was I was in the shower and I was going Are you picturing me in the shower now? So I was in the shower and I had this thought genuinely where I was going, it's hard for people to understand.

It's hard for any of us to understand this. Because money is oftentimes the thing that connects you to all choice, power, whatever it might be. But pursuing money is almost the worst. the worst direction you can ever take, right? If you say to yourself in life, I'm going to pursue money, you could just take money out of an old lady's wallet,

then the money is there now, right? I think what we haven't been taught for the most part because society doesn't oftentimes tell us enough is that money, especially in a well-functioning society, money is a byproduct of a job well done. Yeah. You know, and so if you have the luxury of doing the thing that you love doing

and you get to do it well, you'll find that money somehow slips into your ether. It starts to come in. And that's like I say, in a well-functioning society. As capitalism goes extreme and it deteriorates in its late stage, people now can only earn money from certain things. But when I look at you, I go,

it's the perfect example. You'll tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like this version of Josh Johnson like the person we know you yesterday you couldn't exist the same if the internet wasn't what it is now no no I think I know exactly what you mean

and I think about that a lot because I had found some some mainstream and like legacy media success but not enough to live the way that I'm living or make the choices that I make you know I mean like I had done Fallon I had done Conan

I got like a commie central half hour. I've done the route. Like I got new faces for JFL. Like I did allow the route stuff you're supposed to do. Yeah, you went, yeah. Because all the stations along the way. And then there's a place that you end up. For some people, it's after they do JFL new faces.

For some people, it's after they get their half hour. And for some people, it's like even after they've been on a sitcom or something like that. Where now there's like, there is no more up and coming. You've come. Yes. And so what does that? Yeah. Yeah, you're just here.

You can't win this new artist anymore. Yeah. They give it to you one time. And if you lose the time you're up for it, that's it. You're also not going to, you're just, look, I'm new to people, but I'm saying like the ways in which an industry could elevate a person along the way, I had got a lot of that stuff. And then there was a gap between does he have his own show? Is he writing a show? Is he selling shows?

is he a touring headlining comedian is he and so there was a gap there the internet closed that gap the people closed that gap and that's why I have a bit more confidence because one thing I'll say about the era that we live in now versus even 25 years ago is that the industry used to be able to close that gap for you they're like you are this a list star and we're going to treat you like this a list star when you're actually really young just because we like as a studio believe in you. And you used to just be signed to like one studio. Yeah. And so anyway, the industry used to close that gap. But then if industry betrayed you, blacklisted you, you'll see McCarthy stuff, whatever. Once that thing happened, you didn't have connection to the people.

So even if the people liked you, they'd be like, oh, why have you been in a movie in forever? You've been blackboard. Because no one picked up my calls and no one's calling me. But that can never happen again because like if you if you have connection to people and if you've built community then you'll always be a version of what you're doing now especially if you're not doing it to be number one and the thing that we're lucky about what makes us different from sports is that like there can really be no number one yeah and so it's like because there's no number one you could just be like your number one you can be like the best you and for some people like that like for for plenty of people

Trevor Noah is like the goat of comedy right and then it it taps into their sensibility your timing is their timing of how they think your humor it connects with everyone that that follows you that believes that you are the best of all time there's going to be a Chris

Rock is the goat Dave Chappelle is the goat like go go go go go go go go go go but because it's not a foot race there is no clock as long as you don't, there's no clock. So as long as you don't convince yourself that there's a clock, you can just carry on. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so it's like, I want to be the best, like, comedic writer ever.

I also know that's not going to happen, but I know that it will happen in someone's mind that connects with my work, and that's enough. And I really want it to happen. I want it to happen in the way where everybody says it. It's not going to happen. But, like, at the same time, chasing that, now, like, money is like, but. But that's what I mean. It sounds to me like you fell in love with the process, essentially.

Yeah. Because the process is like the reward that will always yield a return, right? If you fall in love with the process in your life, then the outcome just becomes the bonus at the end of it. You know? And I've seen this with friends who like cooking. Like, they try to get me into cooking because I like food. I like eating food. And then they would go like, you should learn how to cook.

And then when I would try to learn how to cook, even if it came to you. came out right at the end. I was like, I don't like this. Yeah. I like eating the food. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because when you eat the food and you didn't cook it, you're not sweaty.

Yeah, that's what I'm, you see? Now a sweaty version of me is eating the food. Jabby. I'll just be like, yo, man, I get to the end of this journey. What are you guys cooking? But if you, what do you mean? That makes you sweaty. Oh, it's just processed.

You know how it is, man. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. Oh. You don't sweat when you cook. Maybe that's why we're- What are you guys cooking? Just anything. Give me an example of what you made

that made you go, hey! Okay, one day I was trying to make a stew. I've only tried it once and one time I was trying to make a stew and then it just involved me with a pot, with water, with the ingredients, with the thing. So you closed the lid?

No, I had to keep opening the lid to see what was bubbling. I had to keep closing the thing. That's normal. That's part of cooking. Yeah, and in that process... How close were you to this lid? I wasn't measuring Eugene.

I wasn't measuring my distance to the... Maybe this is why I'm not a good cook. I was just like opening, closing, opening and closing. It would be very funny if you were laid at it too close. And you were like, man, cooking is hot. I'm like, no, but what I mean is like, I don't think there's anything wrong with liking or not liking certain things. But I think people take for granted that if you fall in love, if you find a passion for the process, then the outcome just becomes a bonus.

And if you love the outcome, then your joy is always going to oscillate between. good and bad good and bad I think that point of view is a privilege we've had this conversation but in another form I'm always like that point making that point you can only make it from a point of privilege

so if people with a rare skill a talent like a surgeon who earns hundreds of thousands of dollars a month can say you know I just like operating on people but you're like no no no I don't know what I'm going to eat tonight so you can pursue your passion yes when you talk about money

no yes so I'm talking about money versus is when people say, no, yes, just I love the process. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the average person, I think, this is my opinion, does not have the luxury to think about their passion. Yes. But they're thinking about what am I going to do now? What am I going to eat now?

And obviously, when you tell the story about how you grew up and when you were eating the pizza that made you throw up, if someone would have walked into that dorm room while you were eating $5 pizza and told you, just enjoy, just enjoy the process, not about the money. Yeah. My man. No, that is what people said.

They were like that that's and what did you feel no but I guess I'm I'm thinking also one once again from privilege is either privilege or experience because I think saying fall in love with the process is a thing that comes from the experience of like if you have sometimes it's just good advice from somebody who did it the other way so yes it's from like a point of privilege to say like don't worry about money and I'm not saying don't worry about money I'm saying people have put me in a position where I don't worry about money the same way so I'm and I'm not saying I'm also saying I don't necessarily I think it might be a luxurious way of experiencing your own mind but I don't think it's an unattainable luxury right and here's why I'll say this when you started comedy

if you remember your journey it was not paying anything comedy literally paid us no there wasn't even an idea of the possibility when we were doing comedy in South Africa starting out the concept of getting paid by anyone or anything

yeah we paid to do comedy yeah we paid to do comedy there wasn't even like a 20 bucks well done no that came over time right but we fell in love with the process and what I mean by that is I don't think everything has to be contained in one space right right so when you look at somebody who likes knitting I would always I would always be fascinated watching somebody knits and I'll go like what are you doing and they're like I'm knitting And I'm like, oh, are you trying to make something? And they go, like, well, sometimes they even go, I'll see what it is. I'm just starting with this block for now.

And then it will grow into something else and it'll become something. And then I'll decide what I want to make. But they go, I like knitting. Knitting is the thing that they actually enjoy. On the other side of knitting is the garment that you've created. Do you get what I'm saying? And so what I'm saying is it's noisy. That's why I completely agree with you.

It's noisy. It is hard to appreciate process. it is hard to appreciate passion when you're hungry, right? But it's, it is those people sometimes who are the ones that will make you, the ones who can do it in those moments, they're sometimes the people who inspire me the most because they can and they do. Like, when my family was at its worst, my mom loved gardening.

We didn't have anything. We did, like, literally, I remember nights where it's like, we're eating more puny worms because it was like the cheapest thing we could buy. It's like a dried caterpillar type. How would you, is it caterpillar? Yeah. that's like the only thing we could afford for a moment then at some point we couldn't even get more puny moments

or we could get was more rojo that was like it and this isn't like a long it's not years in my life but like a few months I just remember we couldn't afford meat and we couldn't afford a certain type of protein and so now we're buying like grass essentially is how it seemed to me as a kid because when you introduced this to me late in life

I'm just like this is eating kale and quinoa all day it's ironic by the way because I remember the first time someone came with kale in America and then I was like I'm not going back I escaped this trap I'm not going back to this but Murroho and Kail are very I still think like a you don't know what I mean

but the thing that amazed me was she still found joy in her processes just doing something in a garden going and and and I think like that's what you're talking about like when I listen to you there's an element of Josh Johnson that's just like you're just like obsessed and in love with the

process that you're pursuing? Because then it's like the thing, I guess if you were to put yourself back in different moments, right? Because don't get me wrong, I am never, it's never lost on me that like I am the exception and not the rule. And so I even tell people, I'm like, look, everybody's on their own journey. I don't want you to think that like there's some aspect of if I can do it, you can do it. And then there's also an aspect of if I can do it, if I can do it, you can do it being weapon

to keep people in a bad position. Yeah, I hate that if I can agree. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, because people have said that to me who were tall. And now I'm like, what do you mean, dunk? And they're like, look, you work hard enough. You work on your game. If I can do it, you can do it.

Swish. And then I'm like, all right, I believe you. And then brick, brick, brick, brick, brick, brick because I actually can't. And I also, to be fair, don't love basketball enough to like learn and fall in love with process enough to even see if I can, right? But now if you're talking about, if you're if you're talking about a system where people can make their money or just have like a life, there's just have what they want. It's so much more profitable to keep that as a carrot that you hang in front of someone than it is to just let them have it. Because if everyone's okay, less people are are rich,

which is like a side note thing. But the process thing that I'm fall in love with and that I think is like so important is that it started so much longer before anything was working out the same way that like i've been my like the way that i've been myself and like weird and it didn't oh did work for like all of life until like a little bit of college it worked because a little bit of college i'm finally meeting people who are also kind of like me then it worked in chicago i started doing comedy that's the that's the thing i should have been doing this entire time then it worked for a little while in new york and then like i had my ups and downs. And now it works in a big way because I'm finally like doing everything I think that I was meant to do. Yeah. And so the reason I say meant to do. Yeah. Because because then I think

that it started in Chicago when I started doing comedy by I'm working at the grocery store and I'm like working on bits all day, but then also having conversations all day. Because you, okay, so you would be on register for like two hours. Okay. They do a two hour block. So now I'm talking to people and I'm not necessarily like running bits by people but I am like getting to know you get to know your regulars you get to watch stuff and now it's like it's your audience you're just yeah you're just you're just feeding off of like all these interactions that are so interesting and especially if you decide to be personable because I worked with plenty of people who decided to like be miserable in that moment but in my head I'm like guys I'm here I'm like there's nowhere else I can be and so this is either

a waste of my time which means it's a waste of my life or it's my life So now I'm just here. So then let me talk to this person, ask them out of their day is, let me like, have you had these? Because I haven't had these. I know that's bad to say because I work here. But like, are these good? Because I'm going to get them if they. And now I become the person that's personable enough that people got in my line.

And so now you build a rapport with these people. And then when I'm over here stock in the freezer, stock in the fridge, I'm thinking about bits or I'm thinking about what people said to me. Yeah. So now when I go up in Chicago, everyone's like, oh, you don't ever repeat or you don't have. And it's like, because I'm excited. about like I'm excited about what this thing is that happened today or I'm excited about building on this idea that I had last week but now I've reworded it or like whatever and so it seems like a wealth of like oh you must just be writing all day and in my head I was like I am but

I'm not like it just came from such a genuine place it didn't become more like proper proper writing until Fallon because I was a monologue writer at Fallon. That's when you had to get into the croft of it. Now it's like 150 jokes a day or you know like or like or you're just you're even writing when I was at foul and I was trying I was so thirsty to get a joke on I was writing jokes in the hope that like Jimmy got lost in the building and then like wandered in my office and was like hey what how you doing I'm like oh I'm great I got a whole page of joke you know I mean like I'm like going crazy because also it's like your first job so your extra and it's a major job I mean that yeah yeah and then I got hired at Daily Show like when you hired me

I was like, okay, this is a chance, especially because of how collaborative the process is, this is a chance to take everything I've been writing, all the ideas I'm always having, all the conversations that I have, and, like, hopefully apply them in real time to whatever the news of the day is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right.

And then it, like, yeah, I was writing it Daily Show, which then taught me how to tell stories better of things that people had no context for. So, like, watching you, I was able to be like, oh, you know what? Like, there's this thing that happened to me. that people won't have any frame of reference for. How do I tell them about that?

So when you would talk about South Africa or when you would talk about your travels and you're talking to Americans who are the perfect audience of like untravelled people, like everything is new. They'll be like, Malta, is it chocolate? They like, you know, we don't know. Because it's like, because also you were the first person

that like showed me how big the world was in a way. And, like, talking to you, talking to Salabojo, talking to all these people showed me how well the world gets on in spite of and sometimes without the U.S. Because growing up here, you're like, this is the lie that keeps things the way they are, maybe forever, is that you are taught that the U.S. is number one. We're number one because we deserve it. We're number one on mayor, but we're also number one in everything. And so if anything is bad here, best believe it's worse somewhere else in the world because they're not even as good as us. So if you are hungry in America, imagine how hungry you'd be in Mexico. Imagine how hungry.

And you could even point at other Western countries. It's like they would do, like, I had teachers that would do this where they'd be like, Australia, nice and everything, but what do they build? What adventures do they have? Like, because it teaches you to have like being, I don't even know where you learn it, but like being the center of energy. And entertainment especially, and entertainment being such a strong, like a strong conveyor of stories and stuff like that, it teaches you a sort of American excellence that probably even used to be earned but then has slowly been slipping away over time. And now your assumption is that no matter how bad things get it, we could have like a civil war and you'd still point at another country and be like, well, they're having a coup. And it's like, yeah, but look at the 99 other countries that are five. today on like a regular Wednesday and so rather than teaching you out of your supposed

like excellence and number one because it's also a very inconvenient truth that like the number one title comes from like just like a boxer who's number one and has a team that's built up of people from all sorts of backgrounds with disciplines there's a number oneness that gets lost in that oh yeah well we needed the scientists to come here we needed the engineers to come here we taught some of our people but then they went over and learned from other people and then came back. Number one is just number one because we're number one. And so then that keeps people in the thing of like, you'll see where another country, another Western country as well. So you don't even have to worry about like communism, socialism, whatever. Another Western country will figure

something out and we still won't change because the idea of looking at someone else as an example is unacceptable. And so being around you and being around people who had like a different experience of life, being around your opio, being around all these people was the first time that I was like not only is like the world obviously much bigger but like comedy is so much bigger because now i like it made me curious enough to like start watching comedians where i just needed the subtitles because i was just like oh yeah i was like let me just like yep jo opio subtitles i'm with you we're got to get a dig in at jo come on man but that's but like so every i said all that to say that like all of that it's not no no it's like it's not lost on me that now only have

I been incredibly fortunate I've been given a lot of opportunities and then even within those opportunities I was like put in the right place of the right time to have the right experience to make what I'm doing now possible and that's the part see that's the part where whenever you get great advice about pursuing your passion no one ever says at the end that's the long way of saying do the thing that you can when you can then someone might select you to be the person that can and ends up becoming the person that will. And also what I realized was

when you were telling your story because I worked in retail for a long time and I realized I had the most amount of fun doing comedy when I was in retail before I knew it was comedy. There was no pressure. You had to refresh your jokes. Yeah, there's someone coming in and out all the time

but they've seen you so many times and you can't say the same thing to them and there you are now at Fallen. Now you're doing this thing for a living. And they've said to you don't have to worry about the money now. just do this thing and then all of a sudden

becomes difficult and I thought there was a phase where comedy was making fun of people that are doing their best to try and survive you know there would be like hey imagine

you guys coming back from work hey work how's work every day traffic and I'm like yo when did we get here like I started hating the way I was doing

some comedy because I would and I'd realize it was all about for me personally it was about fitting in because even in retail when you're working there you realize that you're not

fitting in here that when you get out you're like how shitty was that job but it came with how people measure success maybe you know yeah yeah and it also just comes from a place of like this is how you're supposed to feel yes and it's like if you keep falling for how you're supposed to feel i mean that's that's very convenient for someone you'll keep buying what you're supposed to buy you'll keep you'll keep you'll keep voting for who you're supposed to vote for you'll keep and then you just have to it there's a level of curiousness that i understand that when you're hungry because i've been hungry When you're hungry, you're thinking about hungry. So you're not thinking about some of this like the hoity, toy stuff.

And it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a dumb person. It doesn't make you less than. It's just literally that's why it's so convenient and so important to keep you, to keep you not just down. But like to keep a controlled, I started working on this bit a long time ago and I did not like finish it in a way that's like worth it. Maybe I'll get there one day. But I'm like, you don't get paid to do. your job. You get paid not to riot. They pay you just before riot. If they paid you

any less, you'd riot. And they know that. So they're like, because you got to remember, especially in the U.S., we did have slavery. And they've slowly been trying to get back. As as soon as they lost it, they were like, that was some good stuff. That's crazy. It's like, it's like having antimandium in the, uh, in Black Panther. Yeah. And so it's like, imagine they took all of it away. You got to use regular metal now. And you're like, got. I'm getting shot. Like this is this is getting through, right? So now, so now I'm coming from a place of like I understand that even, even if we're

not even going to get like conspiratorial with it, right? Even in the way that we say left and right works as a function to keep us at the the tug of war and the, and the middle of the rope in the middle. Because the fact that like there's, it can't be lost on us that like somehow every one as in one person is a full representative of the right and every one person just one person is a full representative of the left yeah so based on algorithms after something happens something something whatever whatever you want to picture you are by algorithm and by who you've chosen to follow either served contempt or compassion yeah and you are served contempt or compassion as in that is the way

it is this is your window into the internet and your window isn't wrong but it's not the full picture. So then you'll say everyone on the left is doing this. Everyone on the right is doing this. And then someone who argues with you, they saw a different mix. They saw a different cocktail of compassion and contempt. So now they are being like, no, that's not happening. This is what's happening. Both are happening. Everyone is everything. You can have QAnon or Bluanon or whatever. And I'm not making like false equivalencies. I'm just saying that like we're all capable of like everything. This makes a person a person. And so I think that keeping you there, keeps you broke keeping you there keeps you like you know complying without realizing you're

complying or like and so when someone especially is trying to like follow a passion and someone says don't necessarily worry about the the money you're going to be worried about something because now that i'm not worried about the money i worry about the quality you know i mean yeah there's always going to be something that you so like so that that is a thing that like pops out at me where i'm like I don't know when I'll be like because you don't like your body tells you when you get old you're not you don't say a number and go

I'm old now you get out of bed and you pop and you're like I'm not used to popping and that's what quality does let's go back to complying you said say the thing you said again about complying we don't we're trying to resist to comply no it's just what keeps you complying is that like it's very easy

if like if Trevor wants something right and what he what he wants is the last lights of pizza, right? It's very easy for him to get that last slice of pizza that we could all three have if he keeps us distracted fighting about the pizza. Now

I'm looking at you, you're looking at me and he's eating. Right? And I feel like that's how a larger portion of every political game and every like social economic game works. And I think that by me being, you know, left and you being right and us arguing and only focusing on

each other, you forget that like We were initially fighting over the pizza. And now where's the pizza? It's gone. Well, it's gone because it's your fault. No, it's your fault. You know, I think society made that argument very easy for politicians and people who run countries after COVID because we got to see what class really is.

Yeah. It happened in real time. Rich people did not die in droves. Because you also saw Madonna in that bathtub. And I was like, that's going to rack a lot, somebody. Yeah, some countries and some people. But not a bit in that. bathtub and then her being like oh we're all going through it i'm like not the bathtub

oh man that's guys if i i need you i need i'm telling you right now if we're ever having a global crisis and i post a video in a bathtub talking about how we all struggling i need you to call me there were a lot of people yeah there were a lot of people who are out of touch in that moment yeah but but i'm saying that in a grand scale that's what you're experiencing as inequality and someone having to look at the other side and go I'm stuck here. I'll even pitch you this. Take any sort of like Hollywood

example, acting, comedy, whatever right? This is also how it happens. I'm not speaking to the merits of anyone's talent. I'm just saying what I've noticed is that there will be a certain amount of positions. They'll be like the DEI positions,

right? And you could also tell that the DEI position, as people get it DEI, this is the thing that tells people, like, this is how many we're going to do. It's like, it's the quota. Yeah, it's like, this will be the quota. Yeah. So I don't even know why you get mad at DEI, because they've already basically said,

well, only get 20. So, like, you won't have to worry about them taking your job. Maybe you, but, like, as a large swath of the industry, we're going to let 20 in, right? So now people are mad at these, like, DEI jobs. Jobs only established to try to, like, find some sort of base, all the stuff, all the stuff we already know. But then people are mad at this.

them. These people now feel like they have to prove themselves. They're mad at the, you know, the other people coming at them, everything. Meanwhile, there is no quota and there is no, there is no number that is capped for the amount of like legacy kids that get into the right colleges or nepo babies that get the job or whatever. And it's like, it's like that thing, obviously some people are waking up to that fact and being like, oh yeah, why are there only 20 spots for anybody? Forget D.E. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, right, right. And it's like that, but that's also part of the game. But that's what a quota does. A quota exposes how many spots are no longer available to those it was available to before. That's true. That's true, actually.

So now you can quantify it. You can count. Oh, 20 people used to be there. Now they're not anymore because these people are there. Quotas are never about if the person can do their job or not, because I'll tell you this much. People who are put in because of affirmative action will never outnumber the people that were there already.

It will never be 50-50. will never be 50 you were here, legacy, 50 you are new, we're just putting you in. Because then you could measure how did the quality of work drop since the new people came in? But if you put 20% in and the other 80%, they stop performing their duties because they're disgruntled by the people that they feel like they don't deserve to be there, then that's when the quality of work drops. Then you can always blame it on the new guy. Sure, sure. You know what I love listening to this, like, these are always the moments when somebody like walks into a room and there's comedians talking.

and then I'll always hear them say I thought you guys told more jokes yeah yeah no no I've always wondered I was just listening to you guys now and I was like it's really interesting to me how comedians no matter where they are in the world will always get into the

is it the anomalies is it the inconsistencies is it the do you know what I'm saying I'm just listening to this now and I was going it's funny how because comedy let's think of it this way because comedy is like

the icing on a cake it's sweet it's generally very delicious it's easy to consume people often think that the raw ingredient for it is also that in that way and I know sugar cane is please don't get me wrong

but I'm just saying I'm watching this right now and no no forgive me it made me one day it's like I wonder if like you get into comedy because you're seeing an inconsistent world or if part of comedy helps you process the inconsistency of the world? Maybe.

I mean, I imagine it's like if you, if you're a singer, right, and you're like, I can do something real weird with my throat. Yeah. I could do some real weird at my voice. And then you do it to drums and people are like, I think I'd pay to see that. It's like, it's like you fall into the thing sometimes. No, but I mean the thinking of it. Like, okay, let me ask you this question.

When was the first time in your life when you. can remember thinking this didn't make this doesn't make sense uh okay so you know how this is two moments that stick out to me uh you know how the dentist gives you a lollipop yeah you see there you go and i was like hey my man my man what you doing well you you try to catch me slipping i didn't have any cavities and now you giving me sugar this is crazy how old were you when you at this thought? Maybe 10. I don't know.

Like, yeah. Yeah, but you see what I mean? It's like something like that. What was the first thing you can remember thinking this does not make sense? I think it was when I was watching my grandfather and my parents watching the news and believing all of it. You, wait, you were watching them watch the news. Yes. And they were believing all of it.

Because in my head I was like, this is what they're saying? Yeah, it didn't happen. Yeah. Wait, what? Whatever this happened Whatever they were saying in the news In Soweto, in I was like, yeah, where we are

Everything is fine So, oh, so you were going Yeah, so it was burning on TV Okay, got it. And at that place And I'm sure by now They've extinguished the fire Because the 7 o'clock news

It's dark outside That's so funny This is actually really funny Why are we worried about the emotions As if it's happening outside And if it's happening now Then I'd watch them getting emotionally invested at 7 o'clock

about, whoo, so bad out there. That's fascinating. So you were thrown by the fact I mean, you see, it's extremely logical as well because you're going, it's not burning outside.

It's not even, the sign is not even out anymore. It's daytime in the news. Yes. But it's night time now. And everyone who were supposed to do their job did it. The fire trucks were there, the cameras were there, the reporter filed the story.

And so you were saying there. They put on a jacket. Yeah. In fact, In fact, in my head, I was like, the reporter that reported on the story is also home watching the news now. You know what's so funny about this is that it's the third level of the thing. I thought you were just going to say, why they believe in everything? Because people lie sometimes.

That's just even much more of a child thing. Yeah, no, no, no. You're like, no, the car that was on fire has clearly been extinguished by that. Long ago. Insurance has been contacted. The claim is being processed. Now we're just waiting for opening hours. for tomorrow so you can look at another car if you really

want one. But I would watch the real emotion and my parents being invested on something. You know, there's bad out there. I'm like, no, it's great in the air. We're watching these people. Our car is not burning. And that's when your house is not on fire. So your brain at that point is just going, this doesn't make sense. Yes. And also because I think when I started

exploring comedy, I realize that's what people are doing. They're reacting to something that I say that's not real. I say things and then they're like, yeah, net. And I'm like, yeah. And I think that's why maybe we see comedians unable to fight extremism when people are being extreme

about their views and ideas and rallying people and filling up arenas and domes and people are just coming to listen to them and social media we can't say anything we can fight that because we're essentially doing the same thing

but we're doing it on a happy side we galvanizing people to come into a room to laugh but on the other end of it it has never been like it is now where you find in the other side of things the same arena two weeks from now

I would agree with that actually there's someone who's going we are getting it. the guns we are going to fight yeah yeah yeah there's a there's a there's a different type it's man that's an interesting thought there is like a it feels like at least more and more places in the world have an economy or there's like a circuit around anger and hatred in a way that it didn't exist for a long time trouble making things to stand up has become performative so if you look at all the rallies of all people stirring up what we call

trouble. Yeah. They also have a stage. Yeah. And they don't have jokes, by the way. And now they don't have paper anymore in their hand and they tell jokes. They mess up, play music a little bit, mess around and get people worked up. Some of them tell the same jokes. I mean, they do it. They work at like a set. You remember back in the day, and I mean, he still sort of does it now, but not as much. I feel like now he's like retired. Trump used to work out bits. Yeah. On the campaign trail. Yeah. So he would say something. He would do it. And then he'd go, I used to say that and it didn't work. I used to say it didn't work. Now it works. The one that he had was um i'm trying to think of which one he had it i think it was crooked hillary or one of

those but he had a previous version yeah cricket hillary and he had it and he had a version and it was like it didn't hit but he found the one and then he found like a switch and he changed it but he said which was interesting to me he said at a rally yes i used to say it like this and people didn't respond yeah now i say it like this and they do respond yes but stand up was the original research and development of how to become extreme in an idea Yeah. When people say, okay, there's no paper, it's just a microphone, just stage, just give me a group of people. Don't sit down even. Just stand up. Let's do this thing because music did not have the same impact as now when you have a singular person trying to convince a horde of people to take action. But the action now is the other way around. It's no longer just go. It's not an action to happiness. Yes. Also, stand up, there are a lot to remind people how great their lives are. But this form of extremism, which is performative as well, is doing a lot to remind people how shitty they're. their lives are.

Well, else we would make fun of someone who has a normal 95 job. These people are saying, why do you have a normal 95 job? Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this. It's amazing how powerful it is when you switch it. You know, it's funny.

I, I, you know, because you, you are in a moment right now, um, that that's amazing and it's new and it's it's obviously being looked at from so many different places you know so like it's Josh Johnson the magazines look at you the entertainment industry looks at you and then people often phone me and they go what do you think of what Josh is doing and they all have a different lens through which they wish to see it you know what do you think it means for the entertainment industry what do you think it means for comedy what do you think it means for and I remember once I was trying to think of this for myself and I went one of the things you're doing with your stand-up,

like the sets that you're doing now every single week on YouTube, is in a crazy way. I was like, you're also just like establishing a bit of reality. I don't know if you've noticed that, and I don't know if you're doing it on purpose. I mean, some people say that what I'm trying to do is be like this thing, like, what we have become, I think is a problem.

Like as comedians and what we mean to people and how we like structure our careers around that thing. I think that people are playing games right now that are going to bite them eventually where you play with people who are struggling, you play with people who are like based on like even no fault of their own, but a systemic level, they are mentally unstable. You play with people whose only hope is something that is like, you know, in the ether as a conspiracy. You play with all that. You make your money and then you think you go home. But especially if you're chasing money, especially if you like money and especially if you can't stay at home, you keep doing it. And you keep doing it and you keep doing it. And then you become a different thing to them than you can ever get back.

Do you know what I mean? Oh, wow. And so like I think if I stay as much of a standpoint. up as I can. And obviously, sometimes I talk about politics. But my thing is that I talk about everything. So the people who think that I talk about one thing, I can tell what videos they've watched. I've been told by people that I only talk about black culture. Then I've been told by other people I only talk about Trump. That I've been told about from other people that I do like regular jokes again. Then I am told by people that they're like, I love your stories. I love

this story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like I don't think, and this is, I'm not upset about or whatever, but I don't think that people are fitting into the picture that I am trying to and as a result, talking about everything. Yeah, but you see, this is, I do get upset about it, not just on your behalf, but on society's behalf. One of the best things I ever learned was from a friend who was a computer scientist and he taught me about a concept known as the second system effect. And he said, whenever you're programming, one of the things you learn as a coder is

When you change one aspect, you might think you're fixing one thing. You don't realize the second system effect that is created by that. You've created a second system, and the effect of that is something that you may not have been aware of. You know? I think of that with algorithms. We used to live in a world where the broadcast was decided by a few, and it went to the many. so one news network 100 million people would watch it one journalist 50 million people would know them you know one newspaper could define a whole country's trajectory and then over time that that started

diminishing like their their power started going down but what also started happening is it started diffusing so there'd be more newspapers more news agencies more television shows more more movies. So there's more who have less power, more who have less power. This is a good thing because reality shouldn't be defined by one person or one small group. But then we get to the point of the algorithm. And the algorithm does this on steroids. It becomes super, super, super tuned to getting as few people as possible, or rather as many people as possible, an opportunity to talk to as many people as possible and you cut down where the message goes from

and who it goes to. It's diffused, you know what I mean? It's like everyone can say it to everyone everywhere. But then what it also does is it says, I'm just going to give you this slice of the reality. You know what I mean? So now Josh Johnson's out there trying to be the full human being who is Josh Johnson.

The algorithm goes, I noticed Trevor that you really liked Josh Johnson's stories about hair. I'm just going to give you all of his hair stuff just you and you and him afros that's all I'm giving you and then it goes Eugene I noticed you you like the thing when Josh Johnson was talking about

working in a grocery store I'm just going to give you his retail stuff and now you extrapolate this into politics and views on the world and what's crazy and terrifying to me is that there's a person out there who only knows one slither of Josh Johnson and as you said

they either have contempt or compassion for that or that side of you. And I go, as we get to the second system effect of everything, going to everyone in the most perfect way, you don't have one big broadcast, you have a billion small broadcasts. But those billion small broadcasts are only your world now. And where before you had to share a world where a car was burning for everyone, your family is watching the news. Now, you watch the news, you watch the news, you watch it.

Everyone in the house is watching different news, but they're all living in the same house. and I genuinely the reason I'm upset about it is not like anger I'm like I'm almost terrified because I go what does that do to us when we don't see the full complexity of each other like you and I talk about this all the time I go I want to live in a world where more people see friends disagree because we make it seem like people disagree because they don't live in the same world

you know like when you walked in today we were watching videos on the internet about mediums and psychics and all of that stuff. And I said to you as my friend, I was like, hey man, I don't believe this. But there's also something here that I don't get. There's something I don't get. And I'm not going to say it's not real,

but I'm letting you know my current position is I don't believe this. And then you're going, I do believe this. And let me tell you why. And we're sharing this. But we don't exist on, you know, like opposite ends of anything. There are some parts of you that are far away from me. And there are some parts of you that I can't separate from my own skin. We are the same in that way.

And that's a big thing that worries me is I go, imagine if somebody like Josh Johnson, who in my opinion is one of the kindest, most caring, most considerate people, imagine if they could slice you into slithers of an idea, what are they doing to the rest of everyone in a society? Do you know what I mean? Sure. And also through the structure of like what keeps you on, they follow behavior. So because they follow behavior, we assume that everyone always wants to be agreed with. Yeah. Some people actually, and the algorithms have already figured this out because it has. happens to me. It's like some people through being curious about what other people think are served nothing but bad. Like I would just say bad stuff that I don't agree with. That happened to my Twitter. So then it's like it's like it then makes me feel like oh everyone's so angry and hateful and everything. And then this okay no one no one's on board with this idea. I've talked about this idea with friends. I did this idea at a show. Right. All right.

I was like, guys, well, they found now. It's like, they finished a study that half the internet is bots. Isn't that great? And then everybody's like, why would that be great? I'm like, guys, there's way less Nazis than we thought. Imagine if you thought there was a room with 100 Nazis in it and it's two. Two's still bad, but two's not 100. And then one of my friends were saying, but yeah, isn't it horrible, though, that somebody would go to the trouble of engineering the troll farm to make us think there's more Nazis?

Yeah, yeah. Yes, that's still not as bad as 100 actual Nazi. If you had, if you had a hundred, a hundred, uh, cakes at your door that say the N-word or two Nazis, you'd be way less scared than if there were a hundred Nazis at your door. With two cakes. Yeah, with two cakes. Yeah, we've got to keep the cakes. We got to keep the cakes.

But like, the fact that this bot problem is actually so big, it both means that, like, to me, at least I could be wrong about it. I like this. No, I like this view. I'm actually on board with this actually. It's an optimistic way of looking at it. It also means that the companies also like are artificially propping themselves up. We think that they are like the full, um, purveyors might be the right word, but that they are the full end all be all of human connection now. And they, and that would, that would be, um, advantageous for us to believe that because they, we would then go to them for the communication. Yeah. First of all, everyone forgets outside. If you, if you, if you got, The fact that people, even in New York, people talk about New York, most people are so much more polite than any internet comment section would ever have you believe. Yes, definitely. People bump into me. They apologize.

Because you're carrying nunchucks. Of course. Yeah, 100%. Let the hair get frizzy. But like, but I just find that that thing clued me in that, okay, now I already try to take a beat. I already, to my detriment, don't get angry enough about bad things. happening in real time even when they happen to me sometimes someone's rude to me and then they walk away and then I'm like actually that wasn't okay right I already try to take a step back as my

like personal now I take a second step back especially when I'm online because I'm like is this person real now that sort of like that sort of thing could drive a person crazy but to me because I'm also being served so much like hateful stuff and because hateful stuff is more engaging their love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does then make me go, okay, what's the likelihood that people spreading love or bots and people spreading hate or bots? This is a hateful thing that I see. And it also isn't like original. This is how I feel like I'm getting good at picking out the bots. Because then when something racist happens and they're like, they're like, we should get him fire for his job. And then they're like, probably doesn't have a job to fire from. And then the next

three people like probably doesn't have a job to fire from probably doesn't have a job to fire for I'm like I maybe this is like one angry person that's just being multiple yeah and maybe and maybe no racist people who knows because the comments are racist the other person's just angry they're like we should get him fired from his job this is insane right and so now it's like it changed my like outlook on the world in a way that might be naive and it might be a little bit like um um wishful thinking but it still is like information that I'm basing my

no I think it's I think it's the right way to see it actually is like finding you know we've had a lot of conversations on the podcast with different I mean everyone from you know doctors who are here to talk about how to how to find the best in your kids we talk to world leaders

one of the common threads I find is like finding the hope you know and what you're saying ties back into that is finding you have to find that thing you got to find you were hopeful enough to eat the second slice of pizza and desperate yeah fourth yeah fourth the three were the night before yeah but i like this what type of pizza was it by the way it was just pepperoni pizza there's no reason for this can you can you eat pepperoni pizza today yes because okay I've been poisoned many

times but there are certain types of this man said it like a badger that's how the judge was like I have been poisoned many times there was a time there was a time in my life where if food was $2.50, I would eat it no matter what. That was the most adventurous I've ever been. Now what I actually go places and someone's like, oh, try this as a delicacy, but it look a little bit like squid guts. I'm like, I think I'm okay. Yeah. But if it had been 250 in 2014 in Chicago, I'd be like, hey, bottoms up, right? And so the time I got poisoned at the Chinese place, it took me years and years and years to eat Chinese again. Huh. Because Because everything about the feeling, everything about the smell, everything about the violent, whatever.

Now, it got to a point for a year. Anytime I passed like any sort of Seshawan place, I was like, I could feel it. Oh, man, I'm so hungry now. You just got me hungry. You just said Sishuanese food. I started thinking of pig trotters. Are you in, Eugene? I don't even think you understand.

You just, oh, man, sorry, your pain. Tell us about your pain again. But it's just, I've never drank in my life, but it's the closest. Wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, what? Whoa, what? I thought you knew. You can't just drop bombs like that in your life?

I knew you don't drink. No, no, I never drank. You have never consumed alcohol. No, no. Even in church, nothing. No, no, we didn't go to that type of church. Church? There are some churches that give you the blood of Jesus and it's wine.

Yeah, some are wine. We at, we at Welch's. Oh, the grape juice. Grape juice. Okay, okay, okay, all right. consume not we're not talking about never drunk never consumed alcohol um is there a reason for this uh yeah it it so initially i was definitely before i was like of age too scared to get in trouble okay cool then i was like not um then then i really went to this transition where i became known as

like the sober guy okay like that'll be the guy who like walks you back to your dorm whatever yeah then I was broke. So then I was broke. But this also what made me useless, though, is that I can't drive. So then I couldn't even be the designated driver. I would just be in the car with the designated driver and everybody else sitting in the back sick. And I'm like, y'all, y'all pay too much for this. So then I moved to Chicago.

Yeah, that story, can I just say, that story takes on a whole new complexity of annoying. It's one thing for somebody to be hanging out with you at a party. drinking with you being like, have you guys noticed how much we pay for this alcohol? We could be paying way let... No, sober Josh is just standing there pointing at your drink being like,

you could have saved $50. You could have saved $25. You could have saved $17. All right. All right. Shatka, I'm shatkan. This is so wild. And then when I moved to Chicago,

I didn't have money to afford to like a new thing. And then after I moved to New York, I felt like, even though I was still in my mid-20s, I felt like I had missed a little bit of the boat and that if I were to find out, because the way you find your drink and the way you find out how much you can drink is through trial and error.

And the errors get less and less cute, the older you get. This is true. And so now I'm like, ah, yeah, I missed it. Because now also... So there's no like curiosity even that makes you... And I'm not advocating for it, by the way. No, no, not really. I'm intrigued by this.

The other reason was that I was like, I don't think I can do anything, like smoke or drink or any of that, especially, like, it was like a focus thing as well because I was like, I want to be able to take care of my mom, take care of my aunt, and like, you know, just like make sure that they're good, right? Because like, and especially after like my dad passed and everything. And so then anything like that just seemed like a potential distraction. And just from the outside looking in, I had never seen anyone be. their best self-drunk, even the happy drunks. There were some people that are like, oh, he's so fun when he's drunk.

And I'm like, y'all know he's like fun, regular, right? Yeah, yeah. But you've got to ask him the right questions. And so... How old were you when your dad passed? 26. I think 26. I could have been 25.

Did you feel like that... Because I'm listening to you and it sounds like to me, it jolted you into like a different type of manhood or responsibility than you felt before. Yeah, especially because I was... I was now going to, like, hopefully live longer than my dad. Damn.

And so now it's like I already had, what felt crazy to me is that I, my dad pretty much, if I have the math right, I was the age my dad was when he had me when he died. So I'm like 25, 26. I'm pretty sure he had me at 2526. So just as I was like gaining an appreciation for what my dad must. have been going through and have a kid. I like lose my dad. And so these are conversations I never end up getting to have with him of like,

hey, just so you know, like I get, I get you a little bit more now. I know what I can't know what it was like to be a baby with me. I can't know what it was like to have like annoying cries. They're like, eh, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because I'm inquisitive. I like can't go back in time and like really get it, but I'm starting to get it because I can't imagine having to like deal with what you and my mom dealt with when you were um my age right

me being this now then losing my dad i was like oh yeah like anybody can go so now i make sure or at least do my best to like i'm still not perfect at it but like everyone that i love i let them know all the time and i don't worry about being embarrassed because it's like i i told my dad i loved him the last time and wasn't feeling sure that he heard me, you know what I mean? And I had the opportunity to tell my dad that I loved him plenty of times before he got sick. And so it's like, I never want to waste that again on anybody. And like, I've lost people since then and got to feel at least somewhat better because every time, I'm not saying this to freak you out, but it's like every time I leave someone, I'm like,

They could die. Yeah, that does freak me. So, like, I'm sorry. Don't put that juju on me, Ricky, buddy. But I'll tell you I love you all the time, just so you know. You know I love you too. Yeah. But don't put that juju on me.

No, 100%. Look, look, we're going to live forever. That's literally why I say it all the time. I said every time I'll be, people will be like, are you hurt? I'll live forever. When I fall, people are like, ooh, that looked bad. I'm going to live forever. It explains a lot of you are like, I don't know, man.

You've always had a beautiful. appreciate, like we used to come back from shows and you would look at me and you'd be like, hey man, thank you for that. And I was like, okay, and that's why I'm shocked that you don't drink because I genuinely thought some of those times I don't mean this in a shitty way. I swear on my life. No, I'm with it. I'm with it. I'm with you. You had the sincerity of a slightly inebriated person.

And I also stopped talking. Yeah. And I realized I did the same thing to Colin Kaepernick. When I met Colin Kaepernick, I was like, hey man you and me yeah and that's what you do and it's like josh will look at you say something not finish a sentence but his in his intonation will make it seem like something was coming so he'll look at me and be like hey man i just wanted to say thank you then i'll be like oh uh for what you know do you know no I do know

I mean I've known you for years now but back then I was just like oh man I was like my man's you know he's had a few it's been a night it's been a journey and I appreciate him still and so I mean it must be I can only imagine what it must be like for your mom though seeing this

because there's no mom who doesn't enjoy seeing their child fly. Especially where you quit the grocery store. Especially where you're like, mom, I think I got this. She's like, are you sure? Like, because it's not my mom never, like she, my mom is very supportive, believed in me

all the things. But any mom is going to be, especially any black mob is going to be pragmatic. Yeah. If your mom supports you going into comedy, I don't know if you've got a great mom. I'm going to be honest. Your mom should support you doing comedy as like a side. But if your mom. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, if you go, mom, I'm quitting my job to do comedy. And your mom's like, good for you. I don't know if your mom actually likes you. I'm going to be honest. Most moms, all moms, should just be like, do that for fun. And I told my mom that I got the job at Tonight Show. And she was even still like, okay, and that's enough money to. Like, shoot, like, she was still like, and this is good.

You can survive. You'll be taking care of yourself. And so it's like, even for something that. she knows because i watched the tonight show with john carson when i was little like i don't i don't even remember some of this stuff and she will tell it to me that she's like you would you cried you cried so hard i think i was like late to school when when when they announced on like the today show that johnny carson wasn't going to or whatever morning show yeah i watched johnny carson i loved johnny carson so much and so i like cried and i'm like i don't remember this at all and she's like

yeah you were like four or whatever like i was like little and And I don't even know if it was the announcement so much as me finding out. But it was like, it was just, Johnny Carson and Big Bird got like, tear me up, right? And so, so then I think that for her, seeing me do well and especially seeing what we've built, like, like we have a real community of people who come to the show, like to laugh, take a break and like people really take care of each other and everything. And people are like, you know, obviously like. internet's internet so there's going to be like mean comments whatever but for the most part like people are like um so kind they they're very kind towards me and they're kind towards each other and it's like everything i'm hopefully making everything that would make her you know

happy when she sees it and she's seen it a few times now and now she's seen it a couple times as my show and so then she sees like what i'm doing yeah yeah and so even though she'll still whatever If I, if I swear, bro, when I tell you, I don't even, like, curse like that. I don't even curse. But if I let anything slip, she's like, I heard that, uh, that B word. You think that that's banana? Do I mean? Like, yeah, it'll be, like, any cursing is just like, is, is like, um, uh, she clocks it, right?

Right. And, but I think that now for her, seeing that I'm doing well, seem okay. And like, once again, I just, I can take care of her. and take care of my aunt and like they can ask me for things and it's not a huge deal yeah because that's been like the dream like people would say like even when people said I was like good at comedy I'd be like I'm not good at comedy till like my mom is taking care of man that's beautiful because then it's like now now you've now you've reached some sort of goal right like now you're like because funny is like this is the the thing about like the hubris behind comedy sometimes I think

even gets comedians trapped in I think why so many comedians. leaned into politics in the way of wanting to be attached and not just wanting to comment. Because wanting to comment is like what we're supposed to do. Being attached is like, now you're entering a weird, now you're like a mouthpiece. When you're like in with them, in with them, you've got to be very careful

because now you're talking about your friend. Because you have to know them. Yeah. No, but that's actually true. You're talking about your friend and now you can't tell the truth. Now you can't tell the truth because you're like, no, I was there.

Yeah, yeah. And he didn't mean it that way that it came out. So I know it's ridiculous. The funny thing is they're not your friend. They're not your friend. That's the thing I think a lot of people don't realize in these situations. It's like you'll cozy up to a politician, right? They'll cozy up to you.

But they're not your friend, unless they are, but most of the time they're not. But you're so enjoying the proximity to power that you're quick to go like, they're my friend. And it's like, they're your friend. It's like, yeah, I love them. They're cool. They're this, they're that. And then when the power does something that you don't agree with people, like, why is your friend doing this?

Now you're like, well, I mean, they're not my friend. I don't like know. Yeah, exactly. I don't like know them like that. I mean, but it's like, but you told us. You vouched for them and you said they were great. I'll even tell you this right now. If you are a politician to be your friend, you got to find a powerless politician.

That person being genuine. That person, the person who was like, y'all, they block me. I can't like, like an alderman city council, they're probably your friend. That's like your friend, yeah, yeah. But like once you get to high. up once you get to prime minister once you get to like president once you get to people with like real power and a stake and an image that they use to like catapult them to the next thing you got to be very careful because look look what's his name i'm sure rodney dangerfield

was friends with Reagan or who like you know i mean like might have been you might have been buddies you know so then he does whatever um i don't think it was white house correspondence dinner back then but he does whatever roasting thing and then like the president at the time's eating it up it's like they might be friends and then you also have to factor in like celebrity to it too of like maybe this president just that's what's happening with the with the fighters now

like now these fighters will go to a country and hang out with like the country's dictator and then they'll be like friends and then the fighter gets back to the US he's like hey you know he skins people right it's like what he just wanted to take the picture and go like that's why I went

and it's like why would you go well he paid me a hundred thousand dollars it's like oh yeah you didn't you didn't check so so when you so when you're building this world of yours what are you what are you building towards and what are you trying to build away from I think

I think the and I've said this before and I'll keep saying it on stage it's like I think the when your life is over when everything is done the only real measure of a man is like what you build and what you break.

And so it's like I'd like to build up a lot of like goodwill things that I think that people still have in them, but they just don't exist as much just for free in the ether. And I'd like to like break some ideas that people have of each other, even though that's going to be hard because like you said, it's like the the algorithm doesn't aid in those things. The same way you think you can use a politician and they're using you, I think algorithms work the same way. Oh, no, definitely.

Where you're like, no, I've gained it because I'm always. nice and it's like well first of all no one is always nice and sometimes you're willing to be nasty about someone who's being nasty or sometimes you have a very human moment yeah now just like the the problem that we have now that we that we refuse to accept because as soon as the thing becomes about you it takes you out of the game a little bit is that you watch reality TV and now we know enough to know these people have been coached or these people people are being produced to be the most entertained version of themselves. Sometimes the most entertained version of themselves is the worst version of themselves. And now algorithms and

platforms are doing all of that to us. We are not our worst moment. We are also not our like marriage proposal. No one is as cute as, as sweet as as as as nasty as as whatever. Even if you put a bunch of that stuff out, no one is one thing, right? Whatever it is, good or bad. And so I think that now you could look at every person. We literally call them channels. You have a YouTube channel. You have a Instagram page. You have a book about you being written. You have a TV show about you being produced. And those things work the same way. Even if you're like, well, no, I control it because it's mine. You don't control who it goes out to and how it goes out. And then one thing that I've noticed is like the favorite things that people say they're the favorite that I've done

are never the thing that not only never the thing I think it would be never the thing that is the most popular hmm that one of the one of the favorite favorite favorite like videos I've had that people have ever put out it I mean that I've ever put out that people come to me about is this one that I did that I just did like on a whim just to put it out for fun it wasn't even a Tuesday video I was like I think it was extra it was like a Thursday video yeah yeah and I was like there's a the it's called the priest and the pickle. And it's just a time in my life where I had a conversation with the

priest and a guy who was like a like a pickle slash pickle juice thief. And it's like that thing is for a lot of people. Some people say you talk about Trump, you talk about black culture, you talk about talk about talk about. But we talk about favorite, for whatever reason, that thing peers through. I think anything that I put out that people connect to is hopefully and I think by virtue of what people tell me is the thing where I'm being hopefully like the most human. And so I'm not interested in being right. I'm not interested in being like into bringing the country into like whatever political form. I just like want to remind everybody that like at least in this aspect and to real world consequence, you are being produced.

So whatever you watch, whatever you do, take it with. with a grain of salt. Could this be a bot? Also, am I being served something because of how I'm feeling? The same way that like, if you're, if you're with your girl and your girl knows that you're upset and she also knows what you're upset about, she's going to bring you a different thing. So sometimes it's like, you just had a bad day. I'll make you a little something. Or if someone did something to you, hey, we need to talk because I can tell you need to talk it out. Algorithms are serving you the same way. We do not give, we give AI and AI that doesn't even exist yet all the credit of intelligence and manipulation that we should be giving the algorithms

that already serve us and so I just like hopefully even in being manipulated by it even in serving the machine to hopefully like serve the people some good can come out of that but like there's so much more that I need to do like I think I should just be like writing a lot of this down and making it making it like hopefully a book because then a book is like hard harder to you only saw the snippet of the book. Yeah, that's true. That's true. People don't clip books.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, and even when you do, it's like, all right, that's boring. Like, even when somebody tries to like clip, like, it doesn't hit the same. It doesn't hit the same. It never hits the same. Even when it's like a slam done. It does not hit the same. It's like, I.

You got to read it in your head. Yeah. It's not the same. Yeah. And then now I said it. You see? That's the most annoying thing. I don't know if you say that, but like, that is a real phenomenon that's happening.

somebody finally reads anything and they go it's like when someone repeats your idea back to you because they weren't listening but they were listening enough for it to go in and then they say it and then they say it that's what people do you should do that with reading but people do it with reading like they're the expert actually now that I think about it my whole eighth grade science book was really my idea I don't even know why you teaching the class like that's the humor like that's the crazy attitude that people have now. And it's why people are like, yeah, don't trust experts sometimes because it's like, well, I also am well read about this. It's like you're not well labbed about it. You haven't

clocked the hours. I think only when you speak to comics, do you realize that one, we're privileged in more ways than we can ever imagine. And I think right now we're living in a world where we've overordered from the menu and now we don't know what to eat first. I think of social media, I'm like, you know you can erase all the apps and just leave the one that you like to communicate with people. And also, it's social media, not interactive media. If you're not using it to socialize the people that you want to socialize with, you're the one opening up the door for people that you don't want in your life.

Yeah, now it socializes you. Yes. But I also think the more time you have in your hands, the more you earn, the more time we have. And this debate has been going around since the beginning of time. Well, it was big with fast food. Remember when people would say, yeah, are you eating junk food? Are you eating unhealthy? Then people are like, maybe I like it.

and maybe that's all I can afford. Yeah. And it's also the same with what people called trash television. Yeah, you're not wrong. It's the same trend. People just want to watch that. They just when if you feel like you know that Kim Kardashian doesn't look like that all the time, that's good for you. But they just want to watch.

They want to watch shows about marriages not working out because theirs is probably not working out as well. So they don't want to feel alone. But I also feel like the people, I feel the same about organized sports, the same way some people feel about social media and the comments and the bots and reality television because if all sports was real why is it that when match fixing happens

it's a scandal what sport like what match fixing for what sport? We had a case in South Africa where it was a huge one South African cricket team also was real say that statement again

so here in reality television you and I can always say it's overproduced there's some acting going on over there but for someone else it's reality Kim Kardashian looks like that all the time People who love sports

Organized sports You think those people show up at that time They get paid this match at 8 o'clock They're going to play for 90 minutes right And it's real The tackle was real The goal was the dive was real Until match fixing happens

And then someone realizes that That match that they spoke about With their friends with such conviction Two years ago All of that Yeah Someone was paid to take a dive Or to pretend that they were hurt

So if in that reality we go real organized sport is real. Yeah. Same way someone feels about reality television. It is their reality. It is their reality. I think the difference I'll just picture you this. I do think the difference though is that even in a fixed match

nobody like flies. Like this all the all the stuff that would happen in a match still happen. There are people there are people who literally get there are people who literally get pissed off and produced. This guy just said nobody flies. Yeah because like if you were like

Oh, sports isn't real the way reality TV is real. No, we compared to the Kardashians and a soccer match. Yes, exactly. So with the Kardashians, right, there's a chance that Kim's not even that mad at Chloe, but she's now been produced to almost come to blows with her sister, which is not like real because it's not based off a real conflict and it's not something that would have happened if we weren't looking. Everything that happens, even in a fixed match, even if you just paid the ref,

they still shot the ball, they still kicked the ball, they still did the stuff. So it's like, yes, it's still, to me, it's just as real because whether someone takes a dive or not is like, it almost doesn't factor into the equation because you also don't know who's like if the keeper's girlfriend broke up with him. And now he's like distracted so he's not playing at his best. It's like it's still all the stuff that was going to happen still happen in a way that in reality TV you can tell. Sometimes they pick the sweetest people and then they get them to yell things that they would like they mess with your mind to the point. And I think that was. Sports is at least like, no, he was always going to try to kick it in. He just tried less because, like, somebody paid him. What I'm hearing you both say, funny enough, I know we're going to have to wrap up soon anyway, but like, I don't think you're saying something too different. And I think, you know what it is, it's, it's, it's, no, but more than that, it's, it's just, it goes back to the question I asked you

about like your first experience as a young child doing what you should. sort of now do as a stand-up comedian. And it's the challenge that we all face in the world. You have to watch the people around you, watch the news, and you have to deal with the paradox of what they're experiencing versus the reality that's actually outside, right? You have to find a way to bridge that divide. And then on the other side, in a similar world, it's like, go to the dentist, go to the dentist but also ask yourself why they gave you a lollipop yeah yeah yeah no that's that you did it

you brought it all home this very that that that I feel like is what we should all do Josh Johnson this is dope man this is great man I miss you I miss you too I don't miss you as much as you miss me because I see all the time on the internet which is great for me oh but it's bad because then I don't get to hang out with you like this yeah yeah we can hang out anytime I'm in town. Yeah, that's never. No, no, it's like... That's a traveling comedian's worth saying, like, see, a sucker.

No, no. We can hang out any time I'm around. I'm here four days a week now. I still need to go to a UFC match with you. That's all I want. I still say, this is the channel that the world deserves. Josh Johnson commentating on UFC. This man single-handedly got me into UFC.

And I've never enjoyed a match as much as I have when he... Have you ever? I've never tried doing one of those like second screen type things? Oh, no, no, I haven't. I mean, maybe don't because you love UFC. I don't want to spoil the thing that you love, but yeah. Let me tell you something, man. Especially in 2020, man.

Let me tell you something. This guy, UFC, you don't even understand. I would have never made you. Josh would make me think I know. UFC. By the time the fight starts, I would be like, Khabib, oh, let me tell you about Khabib. You don't even understand. man. Oh, so here's the thing you've got to understand about

Dagestani wrestling, right? So you see the Dagestani technique, you want to be like, where did this come from? And then Josh is this day in the corner like, yeah. No, I'm sure, you got to do it. You ready to do. No, dude, I'm telling you, especially in 2020, that was a good time to get in because there were no crowds, you got to see

what like a fight was like because you could hear them. No, you could hear them. You could hear them. So not only could you hear them, you could hear when they were surprised about what was happening. I'll never forget when Kevin Holland fought, and I don't remember who grabbed him. Somebody grabbed him and he went. Like, he's not on Mike. The cameras are over the cage. So the cameras pick him up going, oh, you're strong. But you're like, this is a professional elite fighter. Do you remember

the other one? Wait, there's another one that we, you showed me, oh, man, it was, it was similar to this. Someone turns to their corner in the fight during, it was the same time. There's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he like turns and he's like, I don't know what to do, like in the middle Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's like in the middle of a fight. He's like, he's like, hey, hey, like, y'all, y'all said? Like, it was, it was so good. And then the other one that we were laughing, we were, like, crying about is this, because heavyweight fights are also like, these are the biggest most dangerous men in the world.

Yeah. But they're also scared of each other. Yes. So it's like now that's a big man. Now they're like, that's a big guy. And remember when we were in the car and we had missed the actual fight because we were like traveling for it and it was in, I think, uh, Abu Dhabi, so it was a different time and everything.

And anyway, the heavyweight dude kicked, uh, like did like whatever, uh, kicked like oblique kick. And the other guy went, ah, ah, and then he started walking away. He just walked away. And he just walked away in the office. Like he was like, I'm going home. Even the ref is like, like the ref starts running to try to stop it because you're like, you know, you got intelligently defend yourself and everything.

Yeah, yeah. But even the ref was like, what is he doing? And then the dude like hit him once and then he, you know, like, but he was. still holding his side and you would never hear the like ah like and now because of COVID they've actually brought back a lot more like ring side coach corner like they had some of it before but now they're like they're bringing it more in telling you Josh you got to do it man Josh Johnson UFC commentator and part-time non-chuck user ow ow he walks the streets at night His Afro casting a menacing silhouette.

Hello? Who is that? Hello? Hello? Ow. Are you the guy from the grocery store? Josh Johnson is none. Chuck.

What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaziamin, and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening.

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