What Now? with Trevor Noah - Is Marques Brownlee the Most Powerful Man in Tech? [VIDEO]

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Trevor and Christiana chat with YouTuber Marques Brownlee, professionally known as MKBHD and famous for his incredibly popular videos reviewing technology devices. The trio discusses how to survive and thrive in this era of nichification, fake outrage on the internet and its impact on creators, and whether AI is experiencing a PR nightmare or if in fact it will actually be able to kill us in our sleep. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I'll tell you one of the funniest stories actually that I've heard from the halls of Congress, you know, in and around the TikTok ban. All these congress people, senators and you know, congress, they're like, we're gonna ban TikTok, we're gonna ban TikTok. And they have this huge meeting about TikTok, right? Apparently, what happens is one of the senators goes to like one of the people at TikTok, and is like, this app is disgusting. It's making people hate other people, and it's anti-American, and it's all of this. And then he goes, and look at this. Look at the salacious content that it's showing people.

And he pulls up his For You page, right? And he goes, look at the things that it shows you. Children are seeing these images. And then the person from TikTok very kindly had to say, no, I'm sorry, sir, that algorithm is based on what you like looking at. And so all of these titties that you're seeing are an indication of like how you live. This is What Now with Trevor Noah. Marques, welcome to the podcast, man.

Thanks for having me. I'll admit, I've been a fan of yours for a very long time. So this is a selfish podcast. This almost has nothing to do with anything except for my love of tech and my love of what you do. If I think about what this conversation would have been, let's say, I don't know, 10 years ago, it would have just been about gadgets. I'd be like, Hey Marquez, what do you think of the galaxy? Which one do you think we should get? Oh, what do you think of the HTC? And then maybe like five years ago, I would have been like, VR, what do you think? We're going with the Vive. What do you think we're going to do?

How do you rate the Oculus? I think that's what it would have been. Now I feel like tech has become the forefront of everything that everyone talks about. Tech used to be the realm of like tech nerds. And then now even like a mom who's not connected to tech, and yes, I'm looking at you Christiana is going what is AI what is my phone doing what is technology maybe that's the first question I have for you is like what has it been like being

arguably the most influential person in the world of tech and watching tech go from being a niche conversation to something that even like senators and presidents are talking about now. I felt lucky first of all, as like a content creator that the topic of my videos is ever evolving and it's ever interesting. So I don't have to be interesting. It's just the tech that always changes.

But you're right, the conversations in especially our political atmosphere, like there's way more tech on the tips of people's tongues. I just made a video about AI and everyone's talking about AI now, it's everywhere. So it is, I think how I describe it is the weight of the publish button is a little heavier, but it's a good place to be.

So here's what I think about AI and I'd love to know how you see it because you've had such an interesting journey with it. Like, I think AI is experiencing a weird PR nightmare because many of the people who make AI are trying to promise that AI can do everything and will do everything. Yeah.

Partially because they want the value of their companies to shoot up, you know, and they just want billions of dollars. And then maybe partially because they believe some of it, right? But then because they're doing that, people in the streets now think that AI is going to do everything, can do everything, can think for them, and then is going to come and kill them in their sleep. And I feel like, and again, I'm going to be wrong depending on time. I think in tech, you are always wrong.

It just depends on when you are saying the thing, or you're right, it depends on when you're saying it. I feel like most of what AI is going to be is just like very good at doing stuff for you, assistant world type thing. But I don't think we're getting the Terminator tomorrow. And I'd love to know what you think. Because you play with it way more than I do,

but you're also like in the space, you know? Yeah, okay. So every technology has a bit of a curve to start. It's this really, really steep improvement curve, and then it levels out, and then it sort of flatlines at some point, right? Like what's the difference between the iPhone 15 and 16? Like not that much.

So we're kind of, we're flattened out with the mature categories, if you will. I just felt Apple convulse as you said that. Marques Brown says not that much. So we're kind of, we're flattened out with the mature categories, if you will. I just felt Apple convulse as you said that. Marques Brown says not that much. But what's the difference between the first iPhone and the second iPhone? That was like, we've doubled the screen resolution. We've added a camera.

Like there's huge, huge differences, right? So every tech does this. EVs are going through this right now. And AI is doing the same thing, right? So it's going through this really, really steep improvement and no one knows where the flat line is, which is the concerning part. Is it above human intelligence?

Is it right below? Is it way, way higher? Is it gonna take over? We don't know. We just know we're in this steep thing and everyone's sort of projecting it to be this amazing future. And it could be an amazing future or not, we don't know.

It's just up to the tech, it's up to the people working on it. It's also a little bit up to the people regulating the people working on it. But it is in that exciting, interesting, steep phase where everyone pays attention to it. In your like dream scenario, what do you think AI would be able to do for us?

Because right now,, I hate AI. I think it's weird shit. I'm scared. I think we should shut it all down. But I'm curious about AI enthusiasts, what's the best case scenario in terms of this thing helping the world? This is your moment, Marques. Winner over.

Winner over for me, please. Pitch me. Let me paint you a picture. Let me paint you a picture. So your phone is the most useful tool you have basically. It knows basically everything about you. If you could, and this is something I would love to do, I would like hire a personal assistant that knows everything about me. But most of us don't have that luxury. Most of us don't want to pay for that. But picture this. You wake up in the morning and you immediately get a report of where you need to be at what times during the day,

of what time you need to leave your house based on traffic, based on your calendar to get to your next appointment. It tells you everything you need to know about your next meeting and who's in that meeting and what you should be bringing to that meeting. And it's just super helpful for you all the time because it knows everything about you, that to me is pretty sweet. And it's without me having to have a person know everything about me. It's just the AI has the information in my phone and can give me all this value.

I think when people picture AI though, just because it's called intelligence, I think people are picturing this sort of general human intelligence in the form of a robot, which is maybe not what we need. I think there's a lot of humanoid robot-shaped things walking around with companies trying to make them do interesting things. I think when you say you hate AI, you've probably seen some of those too. And I don't think we need that either.

If you were in charge of this, what do you think you would regulate? Because I'll be honest with you, I don't think most of the people in the government have an idea of what to regulate because they don't even understand what it is. And I mean this on like a rudimentary level. I'm not an AI expert,

but I know I know a lot more than the people who are supposed to regulate AI. Do you know what I mean? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I guess the whole idea is to prevent it from being able to do bad things or ever doing anything bad. And up until this point, a lot of the regulation has been in the hands of those making it. Like I'll just use my recent example. I made a video about Sora, which is OpenAI's video generation tool. And they self-impose their own limits of like, this will not represent people's likenesses. This will not generate anything with violent acts.

It won't do anything with minors. And I think a lot of those very basic obvious regulations, which is like, okay, this should not be used to harm people. It should not be used to deliberately misinform people. Some version of that is what we're all after. I don't know. Again, I'm not a politician.

I don't know how that ends up becoming a law, but we're all after that. We just wanted to be safe and not hurt people, but all preserve all the upside of being super useful, super convenient, artificial intelligence. I guess I come from it, because like as a writer, all this machine learning, it's taking people's innate and creative thoughts. I think what they're feeding the machine kind of worries me. I think it's plagiarism, right?

Like I understand. Actually, this is a great, yeah, I mean, you experienced this head on, by the way. Like, no, no, Marquez, you found out that AI models, they were basically, I want to, you know, stealing your content, taking your content without your permission, using your work to train themselves. Like, what exactly happened there?

How did you discover this? Yeah, okay, so, in a basic level, these models, in order to be as intelligent to train themselves. Like what exactly happened there? How did you discover this? Yeah, okay, so in a basic level, these models in order to be as intelligent as possible, need to know as much as possible. So the company is making them in this race to make them as good as possible. They are trying to train them on as much data

as they can possibly get their hands on. Kind of just the entire internet if they can. So if I ask it for a picture of a silver Porsche Macan, then it knows what silver is, it knows what a Porsche Macan is, and it can make that because it knows everything. And it turns out these enormous data sets with billions and billions of data points, a lot of the pieces of data in them are questionably sourced.

They'll come from publicly available, but also just YouTube videos taken from creators. They'll just start scraping things from websites that journalists have written and they didn't really agree for their work to be scraped, but it's in there too. So I've come across several datasets that have been used to train these models that include hundreds of my videos, hundreds of my videos. And that's concerning because now

there is theoretically an ability for someone to ask for a video or a photo in the style of an MKBHD video, and it would actually be able to reproduce that. So I feel you. I actually did a video with Sora where I asked it for a video of a tech reviewer. This was amazing by the way. And all I really asked for was a tech reviewer sitting at a desk with a phone in his hand and it gave me a generated video of that and without me asking And it gave me a generated video of that. And without me asking, it put a little fake green plant on the desk in front of him.

I didn't ask for that. That was Sora's own creative decision based on me asking for a tech reviewer. And I saw that plant and I went like, I've seen that plant before, because that plant has been in many of my videos and many other tech reviewers' videos. And Sora has seen that plant has been in many of my videos and many other tech reviewers' videos. And Sora has seen that plant somehow,

meaning it's been trained on some data that for some reason it thought that there should be one of those plants in that video. So yeah, I kind of have no choice but to believe lots of my work has been taken and is being used to train these models. It's like this type of thing, right? Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, it's like. But it's so random, do you know what I mean? But it's not. No, thing, right? Exactly. Yeah. So, but it's so random. Do you know what I mean? But it's not. No, no, what I mean is this is not the hallmark of tech reviews. I feel like you're skipping over one of the elephants in the room.

You typed in just basic sentence. You said tech reviewer, right? And it showed him himself. Yeah, but it showed you, yo, I thought this was amazing. It showed you a black tech reviewer. I know the plant is like specific, but I also think there's a level of like being the Michael Jordan of this shit

that you sometimes, because you're a humble guy, but I don't know, man, was there a little part of you that went, huh, even AI, if you say tech reviewer, it's like, well, I mean, if you want tech reviewer, the definition of tech reviewer is a person who looks like this. A black guy with a plant. Yeah, and I'm saying this, I'm not even saying this

for like, you know, some people are like, oh, it's a race thing. No, it's not a race thing. It's like, because there is almost nobody in the tech game who is black, who is at your level, it is only you, but it's crazy that you've dominated the game that much, that AI goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, this has to be... There must have been a little part of you that felt good.

Maybe a little bit. I always have to be careful with that, because I can never quite fully attribute... Like, I hear what you're saying. I remember a long time ago, maybe eight, nine, ten years ago, I went to a conference and there was a little billboard, and it was a tech conference, and there was a little billboard and it was a tech conference and there was a cartoon black character with like this red and black striped shirt. And I, in my profile picture at the time,

I had the same hairstyle as me, it was a cartoon and I had the same, I was wearing the same striped shirt and I was like, I think that's me. I don't really know if I can say it's me. I'm like 93% sure it's me. I don't really know if I can say it's me. I'm like 93% sure it's me. But yeah, you know, it's... I think, again, these are models that are like using some form of a statistical mean to find what they end up creating.

It's like if the thing that you feed it is common enough, it'll spit it out. So if there is enough videos of me in the training data, then you ask for things with keywords that relate to me and it'll probably make something that looks like me and I guess that's what it's supposed to do. Not great. I think it means you killed it. I understand all of the concerns and the privacy

but I think there's also moments of being like, huh, like imagine if the machines do take over The machines will be like, ah marquez you are marquez brownlee. I mean, that's a that's a pretty cool place to be I think It's like when you google something you're the first result. You're like, all right, that's good. I guess exactly Depending on what you're googling. But yeah Um, let's let's talk a little bit about like the world that tech inhabits now. When you started off, I've watched that first video that you uploaded. It's a young Mark Ayers.

And you're just talking about the devices that you like, and you have no great equipment. It's you and I think your bedroom. All right. Welcome to my first video. Bought a new laptop and it's an HP Pavilion DV7T. So of course I've got the Media Center remote with it. Quite a nice remote. You know, it's just a kid who likes tech and that's what tech was for many people.

And now you say tech, people are in front of Congress, you know, the European Union is making laws against it. You know, and maybe I'll clarify by saying it this way. There was a time when hip hop was niche, right? If you listen to hip hop or if you perform hip hop, people are like, whoa, what is this? The hip-hop, whoa, very interesting. And then now hip hop is ubiquitous, right? You watch a T-Mobile ad and there's a hip hop song playing.

That was not a normal thing a very long time ago. I feel like tech is in that space now where it's sort of aged out of being this novel new idea and has now become like the dominant force, almost to the point of being like hated and people being afraid of it. When you think of like big tech or the idea of tech, like where do you think we are from your perspective? The word that comes to mind for me was saturated, but I also think there's a bunch of different parts

of tech now. So when I was starting, when you saw that old 15 year old video of me holding a little remote control up to the webcam and the laptop, that to me was gadgets. And that's a part of tech. But like, I've always loved gadgets. I've loved the little knick knacks, little camera

stuff, a little accessory to my phone that I'm plugging in. Like gadgets have always been, they've always been tech, but that's a part of tech. Another part of tech is social networks, right? So we remember the the MySpace days and then suddenly Facebook comes along and now oh wait you can have both a Facebook and an Instagram and a Snapchat oh and a YouTube channel like there's it's this sudden massive thing and social networks is a part of tech but they've grown independently. Then there's also, there's just production too.

Like when I started with just that laptop on YouTube, that was a good enough video for people to click subscribe, believe it or not, 15 years ago. I upload that video today and people are like, what happened to you? Like what went wrong? Because the barrier for entry is so much higher, or not the barrier for entry,

but the expectations are so much higher in production and cameras and on YouTube as well. And I love that too, I'm a video nerd, so I'm about that. But yeah, I guess I divide tech into a bunch of different buckets, and then I have feelings about each of the buckets. Does that make sense? Let's talk about some of those feelings because I feel like you're uniquely

positioned to to get into this. Social media, that's a tech that everyone understands and everyone's affected by and it's properly in the spotlight. My belief is, I think the biggest mistake the United States made was creating that law that immunized tech companies from being sued or held liable for the things that were held on their platforms. Because I think what they've done now is, what is it, Section 230? I'm not good with numbers and remembering dates. But I think that's what it was.

Because what they've done is they've abused that rule, which was meant to encourage the growth of their business. And now they've made it so that they can push things on us as people and not get held liable. Because here's the thing, and I think this is a key distinction for me. If somebody writes something on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, where you put a video, whatever it is, okay, fine, you did that. I don't think that the company should be held liable. But if they push that video out to people

because they think it's catchy and grabby, I don't understand why they're not getting sued or why they're not being held liable. If somebody got radicalized by fake news that was pushed to them and they act on that fake news, how are these companies not liable? Yeah, so it's interesting what you said was like, social media is one of those things that's just simple

and everyone understands it. But I actually do think there's a lot of nuance to it that people don't understand I think something I learned about YouTube recently and I literally learned that this year is I think as a creator I'm always like trying to make videos that YouTube will push out and When I ask YouTube about things that I can do in a video to get them to push it more out They said to me no no no, that's not actually how this works. YouTube doesn't take videos and push them out.

YouTube treats every individual account logging in and goes and searches for the things that they're most likely to watch and brings it in for them. Oh, wow. So it's not- Say that all again. So YouTube doesn't- Yeah. So- So YouTube isn't pushing my video out to as many people randomly as possible.

YouTube is for each individual that logs in pulling videos that they think are good for them and relevant for them. So when you publish a video and it goes really viral and you feel like YouTube is pushing it out for you, what's really happening is you've made a video that the first few people who engage with it really liked it, and then subsequent people who logged in that were similar, YouTube thought, I've seen this type of person before, they're gonna like this video,

and then it shared it with that type of person. So you're creating a thing that people have engaged with, and YouTube is what feels like rewarding you by hopefully other people finding those people. Exactly. So it does feel like YouTube does bear some responsibility for all of this because they wrote those algorithms, they're responsible for this behavior inside of that sort of microcosm. But it's not exactly YouTube like someone at the control is going,

all right, push this video, don't push this video, push this video, so it's complicated. So that means there's no YouTube plants, because I know loads of people have that conspiracy that YouTube plants these creators, and that's why they're so popular. So you're saying that's that- Wait, have you ever been called one of those?

I've never, no, because I started from 2009. Oh, okay, you got grandfathered in. Yeah, but I've seen, no, cause I started from 2009. But I think there are- Okay, you got grandfathered in. Yeah, but I've seen what you're talking about, which is like someone shows up. What really happens is like someone will show up and they'll immediately have like videos with a bunch of celebrities and you're like,

how did all these people end up getting on this channel so fast and that feels like a plant? But there are also channels, I saw a stat this year, the top three channels on YouTube for growth this year, each of them gained independently more than 60 million subscribers each. So their videos were so successful and were engaged with so much that of the people who watched them,

60 million people subscribed in a year. So. What all those videos do you know off hand? Oh, there's a lot of shorts. So the number one channel is MrBeast. He gained like 110 million subscribers this year. There's another channel that does a lot of shorts again. They've got billions of new views this year from the stuff that they made. And actually the third one was Christiano Ronaldo joined YouTube this year. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That makes sense. 68 million subscribers, yeah. That's so interesting because normally people that are famous outside of the realm of the internet don't necessarily have much success on the internet itself. Because I think the online space is filled with people like you, like disruptors. People that no one knew of before they picked up a camera and they blow up on whether it's Instagram or Twitter or YouTube. And so to hear like Cristiano Ronaldo, of course, he's one of the biggest athletes in the world, but all athletes don't have successful YouTube channels.

So there's something about him. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's literally one of the top five most famous humans alive, but it is always fascinating to me to see people who are famous outside of the internet attempting to sort of own their own personal image by running their own YouTube channel. And that's what it's for, I think. And a lot of people view it the other way around. If you're building up something on YouTube,

a lot of people's goal is to use that to jump off and graduate to something bigger. I want my own show. I want my own show, I want my own whatever it is. But you have people like Will Smith, who have been a movie star for decades, starting a YouTube channel and showing their own personality, for example. It's for people really actually willing to put in the time to share their actual personality with people. I actually wonder if that's why some people aren't successful on YouTube. Like some, if we call them legacy famous. Because, you know, if you look at celebrities from a bygone era,

you know, like the real era of movies and TV and before social media, before any of this, their image was so curated, their image was so insulated that we didn't know them. We thought we knew them, but we didn't know them. Like, I love visiting game companies, like video game companies, right? And then I'll ask them, I'm like, oh, who are you working with? And they're like, oh, we got this new campaign and they'll say some celebrity. And I go, oh, wow, they game? And they're like, no, they don't game at all.

But everyone thinks that they game and everyone feels like they're a gamer. And I'm like, huh, that's interesting. And I feel like the reason a lot of those people can't be successful on YouTube is because there's a realness to creators online that hasn't necessarily been what you needed to be successful in legacy media. Like, would you agree with that? Because I feel like you are the most you person I know, and I don't even know you, by the way.

There is a type of... I guess it's access to the person that this sort of social media grants you that would maybe ruin the illusion for a lot of people who are curating their image. You think of someone like... I'm just using examples, I don't know these people, but like Beyonce, Taylor Swift, like I don't know anything about their personality, but I think a lot of people have this really, really pristine image of them because of what's been curated and shared that might be ruined if they started to share way more parts of their real personality. The only reason they appeal to 500 million people

is because they have this really nice, bright, shiny thing that they've created. And I think for YouTubers, for Twitch streamers, for social media personalities, you may inherently have a lower ceiling because it's just you, but it is a way stronger depth of connection, I think. Like you can't, this is what people say about going on like the Joe Rogan podcast,

like for four hours, you can't fake a four-hour conversation. Like it's you after a while. Yeah, so there is a depth of connection there that really makes it different. I want to go back to something you said earlier about, like if you did the video you did 10 plus years ago today, you probably wouldn't break through, right? So now we have like this higher bar to just get through the noise. Do you think that's like really impacted the type of content creators that we actually now get to become famous? A thousand percent. So here's, here's the way I've described it. It was when I started

in 2009, I was one of a few tech channels, and that was enough to stand out, which was I log in and I'm interested in tech videos, so I'll find like a dozen channels that do it. Fast forward a couple years, and a bunch more people are starting to do it, so now you have some software tutorial channels, you have some hardware channels,

some people who just do unboxings. You might've seen those. I love them. There's a couple. Oh, you like unboxings? Handbags though. They're fun. There's handbags.

People like unboxings. Now there's a couple different types of tech channels, which is cool. Fast forward again, it's 2024. And I promise you there's a channel for every single niche. There's the Apple channel. There's the anti-Apple channel. There's the anti-Apple channel. There's the anti-Apple nerd channel. There's the anti-Apple unboxings channel.

There's the unboxing hardware for accessories for cameras channel. Like every single niche is taken and saturated. And so what we kind of figure out now is the only way to differentiate your content is to just be you. Like every niche is fully filled up and taken. And if you stand out at all, it's because it's you that people like. Look, I make a video on the new iPhone when it comes out in September.

And there is about 5,000 other people who are going to unbox the same phone in the same exact way that I unbox it So why would anybody watch mine? Hopefully I can give you a little bit of entertainment value a little bit of my personality and that's enough for you to stick around and watch it Otherwise, you're gonna get the same information everywhere you know when you when you talk about um the niche of every category this is idea that I've been playing with and I, you know, I could be wrong. One of the great gifts we've received from the internet and, you know,

social media and everything is the niche-ification of everything. If you are interested in something, you can probably find a space where it exists now. So where before we all had to watch the sitcom that was on TV, now you don't. You don't like that kind of comedy? You can find your own kind of comedy. You want to watch a video about people sharpening knives? You can. You can literally watch- Big genre on YouTube, by the way, knives. Yeah, I still know this. One of my best friends just loves knife sharpening videos. I have reported him, by the way, like people who just watch people. Because I'm just like, it's weird.

But I love him, but I've also put him on a list. I think there's something that we don't realize we've lost because of that. And in a weird way, I feel like you are starting to be part of the solution, even in this niche world. And that is as everything has become niche, we share fewer places where we have a collective reality. Yeah. So now, back in the day, you'd walk into the office or you'd walk into school,

and you'd go, oh, did you see what happened last night? And we all saw what happened last night. And now you're like, no, what happened? Oh, you didn't watch that video? No, I didn't see that video. Have you watched the series? I haven't watched that series. Have you streamed this? I haven't gotten to it yet. And now we're starting to lose all the things that brought us together. And then the only things that bring us together now are politics and sports.

So now the only thing you can talk about is, hey, did you see what happened in Ukraine? Oh yeah, this is going to be a fun conversation. I feel like you're part of the thing that's done that. But then now you are becoming the other part, which I think is very important, and that is everyone watches your videos. And I mean, I use everyone loosely, but let me put it this way, Apple watches it. That's the best way to put it. Do you know what I mean?

I knew that we had reached the tipping point when Tim Cook at an Apple launch talked about Mark Harris and his YouTube page and MKBHD. Like I've never seen Apple look for favor from anyone. They've never gone like the Wall Street Journal loves this phone, but they went MKBHD called it a and I was like damn. So you know like how do you feel about that? Like yes niche everything, but then also at the same time you're becoming I don't want to say mainstream, but a different type of mainstream. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, okay, two main things come to mind. One, the first thing you were talking about, the audience of one, I'm sure you've heard this, this filter before, but if you fast forward enough in this nicheification, every single person's, did you see that last night, is different. It's a whole bunch of things with one view. Like nobody is seeing the same stuff. And that's an interesting dystopian future,

but that's a whole nother thing. But the other thing you said is that politics and sports bring people together. I feel like I would expand that to just current events, like things that actually happen in real life. So yes, there is fiction and you might watch that series, you might watch that Netflix thing, you might invest in a, you might watch that Netflix thing, you might, you know,

invest in a storyline here or there. But in the real world, things are actually happening. And so that is the thing that sort of brings together humans. That's the defining human experience. The current events of what's actually happening. It's sports, sometimes it's news, sometimes it's a tech event. And everybody wants to know about the thing that just got unveiled. of what's actually happening. It's sports, sometimes it's news, sometimes, sometimes it's a tech event, and everybody wants to know about the thing

that just got unveiled. Lucky for me, I'm one of the people who is involved with showing you what just happened. So I happen to be one of those faces that a lot of people see instead of just one. Do you think that's part of the reason that you haven't had to resort to crazier and crazier methods of getting views? Because this is something that I've noticed,

not just for big YouTubers, but I've also noticed for, let's say, kids jumping on YouTube now. We've noticed a shift from passively consuming to joining in and creating to not trying to outdo people. So now it's like, it's not enough that you threw a pie at your dad by mistake. Now your whole life has to be like pies everywhere in the house and now we're the pie family and you know what I mean?

And then it culminates, you know, I remember when I was on the Daily Show, I spoke to, I always forget which brother, Paul or Jake or... One of the... I always forget who's Logan or Jake. One of them, what? It's the one that punches and the one that doesn't. They both punch. They both punch.

That's why it got confusing for me. But anyway, he was talking about the video and he was really... I loved how he broke it down, but he was saying like, this thing became a monster that was pushing me and I couldn't stop it. And he said, I had to do a crazier and crazier and crazier thing until I was, I even didn't realize why I was doing it. But it's all about the views. Do you think you've been immunized from that?

Like, why haven't you had more fireworks in your videos? Why aren't you like driving tanks over phones? You know, is that because you don't have to or is it because you don't want to? No, that's, I have an exact answer for that. The star of my videos is not me. The star of my videos is not me. The star of my videos is the tech. I'm pointing the camera at the tech, at the gadgets,

at the thing that just came out, at the Sora announcement, whatever it is, and I'm a face that happens to walk you through it and guide you through it, but the pressure is on the tech industry to get more and more interesting in advance and advance, and I point the camera at it, and that's the subject of the video. For a lot of creators, the subject of the video is them or their life or their family or their stunt.

And once you find success with pointing the camera at that thing, the pressure is now on you to one up the last thing you just did. And so if you're Jake, if you're Logan, if you're Mr. Beast, if you're pointing the camera at yourself, and I see this a lot with family vlog channels where it's like the kids are in it, and now you have to do a crazy thing. Well, they keep having babies. Every time the views go down, they have another baby.

Oh, that's a real thing. Wait, people do that? Yeah. My favorite genre of family channels is like people that have over seven kids. I just, I'm obsessed with them. Wait, so people have more babies to get more views. Oh, babies are great for views, gender reveals. My favorite genre of family channels is like people that have over seven kids. I just, I'm obsessed with them. So people have more babies to get more views.

Babies are great for views, gender reveals, you know, it's very cynical. It's kind of dark, but like family vlog channels are driven by like how many kids you can have. So that's the internal thing that I have is I, the star of the show is the tech, not me. But if you find yourself making videos where the star of the show is you or your life or your daily vlog or your family Best believe that has a sort of a cap that has a sort of a ticking time bomb. I hear what you're saying there and I agree with it. But the one one part that sticks out to me is is you. So I hear what you're saying, but like I think of like the video that you did about golf or the PGA.

I mean, I like tech, but I'm not a big golf person. I watched that video because of you. And I think I know what you mean. I know what you mean about aiming the camera. And you could argue again, oh, yes, but Trevor, the tech at the golf was the star and I was just there. But then I argue there's some videos of yours now that don't even have the tech, right? So when you were talking about ultimate frisbee, which we got to get into by the way, like this man is like an elite athlete, bucking every trend of tech here, by the way. When you spoke about that, that's just you. That video didn't get three views.

It's not like people were like, shut up. Don't talk about your life and frisbees. And people were like, oh man, this is amazing. You're ultimate frisbee. You got the world championships and you competing at the highest level. And then you won. You came back with a medal and you showed us the medal.

And so have you noticed that now, even without the tech and the video, people are still there for you and the conversation? Yeah, you know, so you're right. It's a little bit of a balancing act. I remember maybe five, six years, nay, a little longer ago, there was a little bit of a trend.

There was a whole bunch of YouTube channels doing tech videos that never showed their face. And I thought it was fascinating. And I was like, what if I was a Faceless Tech YouTube channel? And for a couple months, I was. I stopped showing my face. It was just the voice. Oh, wow.

And it was just, it was this nice anonymous feeling. And what I sort of learned from that is people do connect with the character. People start to trust the character that is giving them information, that is telling them how they wanna, you know, what you might buy. And my videos, when they were at their best,

were sort of just like a conversation. They were like, it would be like me and you, so what phone do you have now? Which one are you trying to get? Because I think my HTC One is about to die and I think this new one's not that great, so I should be looking at Samsung. And so while the tech is still what we are talking about

in our conversation, you're right, there is an element of, are you good so while the tech is still what we are talking about in our conversation, you're right, there is an element of are you good at presenting the tech? Are you good at stealing information and making it digestible to a certain audience? Do you know who your audience is? Can you speak to them? That's a fraction of it for sure. So maybe it's 70% subject, 30% host. Sure. I'll accept the pat on the back that I do have a little bit of a little charm going for me. Sure. We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break. You know, I'm really curious because there's always like this kind of trope

of the people that run these tech companies. They have minimal tech in their personal lives and they're very keen that their children have no exposure to tech, right? So there's a story about Steve Jobs and, you know, all these people, they don't let their kids have iPads. Most of the people who like work high up at Facebook, when they throw birthday parties and those types of things for their kids, they have a sign that says, no social media, no phones, no

posting, no collecting, no, yeah. Yeah. And it's always been like this interesting paradox because they sell this stuff to other people and a lot of worn out parents, the iPad kid is kind of a trope of being in the restaurant and just swiping on the iPad, is kind of a trope of being in the restaurant and just like swiping on the iPad, right? Cocoa melon for the win. Yeah, I'm curious about your thoughts on it, about how much should children have access to whether it's iPhones, the gab, which is really popular, that I know a lot of kids have these watches. What are your feelings on it? That is

such an interesting question. So I don't have kids. So I, I, this is, I'm going to have to come up to this decision at some point where it's like, how young are we going to let them use the internet or a phone or a screen at all? Yeah. And, and we've all seen Wally, we've all seen that, that like, um, you know, the dystopian future where humans are just blobs sitting around and chairs watching screens all the time and that feels like the if you let it go too far where we'll end up. But yeah I just I think there is there's obviously a healthy balance you have to try to strike to not just be constantly on your screen. And everyone's going to draw that line in different place. I personally try to put my phone away by a certain hour. I try not to I try to actually start my day,

hopefully by getting all the way to work without looking at my phone, which is hard. It's really hard. So yeah, there's, the line's gonna be a different place for everyone, but I suspect that those people draw the line as conservatively as they possibly can because they've seen the other side. Speaking of like just ramifications in general,

I wanna go back a little bit to the personality of everything. I feel like this year was an interesting year for MKBHD, like for you as a person, right? Because in all the time I've been watching you and following you, you have been, and I mean this in the most respectful and loving way, you've been like non-offensive, non-anything. Then this year was the first time where

it felt like people started having different types of opinions about MKBHD. One was when you launched the app, the Wallpapers app, right, and people were really angry and they were coming at you. And my question is not so much about the incident, because I think everyone in life is going to have some sort of, if you're in public, and maybe even in private,

there's going to be something you do that people don't like, right? And there's degrees of this. Some people it's a wallpaper zap, some people it's a war crime, right? We have degrees. But like, you did this, and then you had another video where you were driving, I think it was a Ferrari, very fast, which I... Which a what, Ferrari is a four. Which I... So can I tell you something? Can I just say this just as an aside? Just as an aside, this is my thing. I feel like it's all a trap, I'll tell you why.

Cars are governed, right? Cars are limited at a certain speed. They literally do this to cars, and it's like, it'll be a law sometimes, but they'll say, this car cannot go over the speed. The car can go over that speed, but they'll govern the car. I'm always like, why do they give us the car? Why don't they just put the governing at the speed limit? That's just my conspiracy theory,

and I'm not bringing anyone else into it. But going back to everything, so you drive the car, you have the wallpaper zap. What really fascinated me was how you handled it. No PR team, no crisis response, no, I'm gonna paraphrase your tweet, but basically you came out and you were like, hey guys, I messed up.

I didn't explain what I was trying to do here. I was trying to create this app for creators where they can actually earn money so people are not just downloading stuff online and they don't get the money. And this is what I was trying to do. You're right, I messed up with the ads and this thing and I'm going to figure this out.

We're going to tweak it. We'll put it down. We'll change it. Yeah, my bad. And you're like, and that was that. And then with the car video as well, you're like, hey, that was a stupid decision. I don't know why I did that. Shouldn't have tweak it. We'll put it down. We'll change. Yeah, my bad." And you're like, and that was that. And then with the car video as well, you're like, hey, that was a stupid decision. I don't know why I did that. Shouldn't have done it. Sorry about that. Don't do it yourself. But what struck me was how...

I don't know if unafraid is the right word. Maybe it's like authentically unafraid you were. Help me understand how you navigated those moments because I know personally, and I don't speak for everybody, but a lot of people were like, they were really impressed that you just said, hey, this is what happened. And I want to know how you came to that because you're big enough that you could have a PR company and you're big enough that you could have a publicist

who's like handling that for you. There's, I think a bit of a misconception about YouTubers now versus a long time ago. I think a long time ago, YouTuber was one person uploading to their channel and it was just them and that was it, maybe one or two people. And now everyone more or less understands that it's a job now and people have teams and they have like PR and they have editors and there's these whole operations. And I think a lot of people forget that there's still people under there. And so I think when

when I'm sort of talking to my audience, I just want to talk to them as me like I always have when it was just me versus when it was my team. Now, I've always wanted to talk to them as just me. And then the other thing is, I mentioned this earlier, but the weight of the publish button being heavier than ever is actually taking that like really seriously. So a lot of times I'll sort of casually drop a clip in my video or drop something in a video where I think, yeah, it'll be cool if some people see this or notice this.

And then the next day the video goes up and there's articles about it, there's like news posts about it. And I realized, oh right, this is way more of a big deal than I originally intended. Because the weight of that button is so heavy, right? So, you know, Panels is the wallpaper app. To me that was just like, I figured I would casually drop it

in my iPhone review and then people would check it out and it was like, no, no, no, no, I really should have explained that way more. And I realized that in public, like failing in public is a thing that we do now and sort of owning that. And the other one was, you know, putting a clip from an action cam

of test driving a Lamborghini. And it's like, I kind of- I thought it was a Ferrari. Yeah, a lot of people, again, there's a ton of articles about it and half of them are saying things like it was a school zone even though it was a sign that said one thing that they're kind of just parroting. And there's no context that makes it okay,

but I should always know that the weight of the publish button is heavy and any one thing that I do can feel very casual but it's also putting it in front of 20 million people. It can feel like an endorsement of something even if it's just a casual mention. But at the end of the day, I'm a person. I'm going to continue to screw up in the future and hopefully continue to talk to my audience as me, as a person that makes mistakes and learns from them and hopefully gets better and evolves over time.

So that's the goal. So here's my thing. I hope you don't change too much and I'll tell you why. I say this because it's something I've grappled with. I actually think that there's a fake outrage machine that oftentimes feeds on some real outrage, don't get me wrong. But I think there's like a fake outrage machine that we've encouraged too much, right? And the reason I say the fake outrage part of it is like, sometimes people can be outraged in a fun way. And I think we should all be allowed to do that as human beings.

I do it with you, Christiana. I hope you do it, you know, Marquez with your friends. Sometimes it's fun to be like, I can't believe they did that. Ha ha ha, whatever, great. But I've noticed there's this weird like, tail wagging the they did that. Whatever. Great. But I've noticed there's this weird like tail wagging the dog effect that's happening now in life where the news and I've watched this happen, right? We'd be at The Daily Show talking about these things.

A few people online would say something. And when I say a few, I mean a few, a few hundred right would say something online. The news, as in mainstream, let's say CBS and NBCNC, they would report on it and they would say, this person taking flack from social media. And then they'd start posting the things up. Many people commenting on how they're putting people in danger. And they put those things up and then they start putting up the post and they're putting up the post. And then they talk about it like it is news. But I'm like, no, no, you're also making news.

It's a very sinister thing that you're doing. And then the thing gets bigger online. And so the news reports- Kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yeah. And then there's a part of me that goes, and please don't get me wrong. I'm not like bandwagoning. I'm not even like trying to gas you up. I go like, yeah, okay, you screwed up. But I just feel like there's like a level of outrage that's not real.

That's like disproportionate to what actually happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like people made it seem like you drove through a playground, is the way I'm saying it, right? And people made it seem like you raided their bank accounts and hacked them to steal money for a wallpaper's app. And while I get criticism, criticism I think is very different to outrage.

Someone can say, hey, I didn't think you did that the right way. Outrage is when someone goes, this hurt me deeply, Marquez. This wallpaper's app has... And I'm just like, yo, man, is this a real thing? And even in my own life, I've tried my best to be cognizant of those moments where I'm participating in it. But then also, like, as a person putting stuff out, I think it's part of the reason people feel like there's like shackles that they need to break in society now, where they're like, what? No, actually, that person didn't mean that. Marquez wasn't trying to kill anyone. Trevor wasn't trying to like, you know, incite violence. And Cristiano wasn't trying to... That's what I wanted to ask him. Because you keep saying that the weight of the publish

button feels heavy, which is like very grave, I think, for like existing online. Do you miss the days when it wasn't heavy? When you kind of, it was this creative space where you could explore and talk about the things you love without being afraid of like this outrage machine for the rollout of a product that you were excited about or, you know, being silly. Do you miss when you're just like, I would publish because I like this shit

and I want people to be into what I'm into or what I don't like, you know? It is a privilege to have that sort of pressure. Like I, back in the day, yeah, I was just publishing whatever. I would make a video that was literally one take. I would do a 90 second video. And as soon as I hit stop recording

and the file appeared on my desktop, I would upload that video. It was that easy, right? Ah, the good old days. And that was fun. And that was the good old days. And there was a casualness about it. And it was fun.

But a lot of what we're able to do, a lot of like the PGA tour, pulling back the curtain and going, yeah, we would love to show you all the tech that goes into a broadcast and we would love for you to show it with your audience. That comes with also the downside of the coin, which is everyone with like binoculars on everything you ever do.

So yeah, you know, a part of me does miss the old days of that a little bit, but I do feel like treating it with respect. Like the only reason we get to do these cool things is because a lot of people care a lot about what we say. So I'm willing to accept that. How do you find the balance though? Because here's the loop I sometimes think about.

People love you because you're genuine. A genuine person comes with complexities. You and I talk about this all the time. You'll say a thing and then I'll be like, no ways. And I fight with you, but we're friends. And I'll say a thing that'll do the same thing to you. But we know that we are people in our full complexities. How do you find that balance between saying, this is me, this is what I feel, or this is how I was going to say it with the, oh oh, I wanna get invited to the PGA. Because I think sometimes there's this weird little tipping point, if we're not careful,

where we start to lose a little bit of what got us there in the first place. The source. Yeah, the source of it. And I'd love to know, how do you keep your source? Like, how do you make sure that you're still you, and then manage the weight of the publish button? Yeah, I think a lot of people have said things like,

oh, you know, if you're not really a, if you don't make tech, then how do you evaluate tech? Like if you're not coding, then how do you review an app? What I've found is I feel like I'm basically a professional user. I use tech and I'm able to show you my experience using it. And so my guiding like North Star for that is I'm just gonna show you the truth. I'm gonna show you my experience using it. And so my guiding like North Star for that is, I'm just gonna show you the truth.

I'm gonna show you how it actually went. I'm gonna tell you what actually happened. I'm gonna share with you what I actually saw. And as long as I'm delivering that truth, I don't really worry about too much else. It might be a little harsh in the way I say it. It might be a little bit light in the way I say it. And you may take issue with one or the other,

but I'll do a shout out to, a couple months ago I reviewed the Humane AI Pin and the Rabbit R1. And I had a lot of negative things to say about them because they just didn't work. They were bad. People were much harsher than me saying things like, oh, they're scams or they should be illegal. These companies should go out of business or whatever.

I just told, look, this is the worst product I've ever reviewed. I've reviewed a lot of stuff and these are really truly at the bottom, they're really bad and I showed all that stuff. And when I started to get backlash for, oh, you were too harsh on them or you said, you know, you were too mean

in these ways that you said it, I can accept that but what I'll always fall back on was, was I wrong? Did I say anything incorrect? I showed you all the stuff, right? So I don't really worry too much about, you know, trying to make everyone happy or trying to nuance my way into wording things in a way that I get invited to the thing. It's like, you know what?

If you value the truth, I'm here for that. And all the other stuff is sort of sheds to the side. One of the reviews that touched me personally was, and again, this is one of those where you got both the credit and the criticism unfairly, is when you were reviewing the Fisker, right? So I remember I drove a Karma way back in the day. I've always loved electric cars and the idea of them.

And I drove one back in the day. It was the greatest idea, some of the worst execution. But I love the idea. And I think if you love tech, you actually love not necessarily the thing working, but the idea behind it. You know, I think you're the same. I love it when like the Apple Vision Pro, I hate it that people slammed it as opposed to going like, wow, Apple's trying something new.

And you got like, that was an interesting level as well where they were like, Marquez, not only are you slating these products, you have now ended a company and you've put people out of their jobs. Like in those moments, do you laugh? Do you sigh? Do you like, how do you even process that? Because it's one thing if, you know, it's like a wallpaper zap.

It's another thing when people think that you and your comments are shutting down a company that makes cars. Yeah, so all I can say to those is, as long as I'm still telling the truth, which is the anchor of all of this, all I did was accelerate what was already happening. If it was me saying something

about the car that took the company from S tier to shutting down, then I was probably lying, no? Like if this company was doing amazing things with an amazing product and everybody loved it, I would probably find the reasons why people loved it and pretty good chance I would like it too. And if I hated it, there would be some reason why. So me coming along, telling the truth about a product, and then people going, mm, bad product. Well, if it was a bad product, that was gonna happen sooner or later anyway.

By the way, fun fact, I drove the Karma as well years ago. I never even made a video about it because I didn't have enough things to say about it. So that one kinda slipped by, and so it was this fiskar that happened to get a video. But yeah, there was, you know what's also funny is you probably saw a lot of the negative comments there, but even in videos like that,

I still get it from both sides, which is interesting. I get a lot of you were too harsh. And I also get a lot of this car was, I've never seen a car this bad. You should have been more mean about this car and I think if you see both sides you if you're probably somewhere in the middle with the truth you're doing something good. My experience with the Fisker was I drove it in LA so it was actually Jay Leno said to me this is long before the Daily Show by the way this is like nobody knows me yeah, by the way. This is like, nobody knows me.

I'm just a random comedian traveling around America. And I meet Jay Leno at the Comedy and Magic Club in Hermosa Beach. Jay and I are talking, we're talking about cars and he's like, oh, the Fisker, you got it. And I was like, what this car? And he's like, drive it. He's like, don't buy it, kid. Don't buy it.

He's like, whatever you do, don't buy it, but you got to drive it. And so I rented one and my experience was I was driving and I was on the highway that goes to Pasadena and in traffic, the car's electronic system all like died on me. The windows went down. So the car was still driving, but I could do nothing and I could see nothing, but the radio went to full volume, and it was, I'll never forget, it was playing Power 106, and I'm in the traffic, everything,

and it was Tupac hit him up. And you couldn't turn it down. No, couldn't do anything. Oh my gosh. Couldn't do anything. This is why I don't like electric cars. Yo, and I'm in the traffic, and I'll never forget people looking at me, and you think, you know, oh yeah, loud, loud music is cool

if you want loud music, but you know when everyone in traffic is driving past you and you're sitting there like, it was the, it was the meekest paradox between what Tupac was saying and how I was expressing my, like, it was just like one of those moments. So when you made that video, I was like, thank you Marquez. You have avenged, you have avenged young Trevor for everything he experienced. I actually wonder, do you think the reviews you got on wallpapers has in any way affected how you're going to give reviews? Do you think as a creator of something, you're now going to review things differently? Are we going to lose the source of you being harsh because now you're sort of in the game,

even if it's just a tippy toe in the game? No, you know what's funny? I actually feel like I understand things a little bit better now. You know, sometimes I'll go to a briefing or some sort of meeting where they're showing me a new device and they're doing the presentation and behind the person giving the presentation there's like eight or nine engineers like, they've been working on this thing and they're like, try the thing that I worked on. And I've always appreciated that. Like it takes a lot to put this stuff together and to sort of, again, we say we hate these products

when they're bad, but to try to make something that's any good does take a lot of effort. So I've always appreciated that. And I think, yeah, I maybe have a little bit more sympathy now for any words of like, they didn't seem to try on this at all. It's like, well, I know somebody tried on this, but they might not have gotten to done,

or they might've run out of time, or they might have to improve this with a software update. There's a little, yeah, sure, a little soft spot now for a little bit of the builder side. Sure. Don't go anywhere, because we got more What Now after this. The thing I want to talk to you before we go is what I've been calling with my friends the shitification of everything.

I mean it in every field. I mean it in politics. I think politics has become shitified in a way where it's like, it's so broken that people don't like it, but it's supposed to be for the people. You know, you feel like this with like products. Tech is one of those areas where I don't want to sound like a grumpy old man,

but I feel like we're living in an age of shitification. You know? So you talk about the rabbit, you talk about the humane. I pre-ordered and bought both of those. I love gadgets and I love tech. When I look at the amount of tech that comes out now that isn't ready, I'm like, how are you allowed to sell something to somebody and then tell them after they've purchased it that they have to wait for the thing to work?

I'm just like, what? Because you can't do that the other way, right? I can't go to the store and buy the phone and be like, hey, I know the money I gave you right now is Monopoly money, but in a few months, it's gonna update into real dollars and then you can use this. Oh, what I hate is the printers that you have to subscribe to for them to print.

Yeah, that's the shitification of, like everything has become a service now. It just feels scammy and weird and like, yeah. that's the shitification of it. Everything has become a service now. It just feels scammy and weird. It's the shitification of everything, right? And even like a company like Apple that's been above it for a long time. Like I want Apple's phone to work, right? I want the iPhone to work.

But like they were like Apple intelligence, Apple intelligence. And then the phone comes out, there's no intelligence. And then they're like, and now the next update and there's still like not the intelligence. I'm like, wait, wait, wait. So you held a launch telling us what it was gonna be. It wasn't.

You then released a phone where all the billboards were advertising the features of that phone. It wasn't, right? You told us what the phone can do. It cannot. At what point do we go, this is a scam. And I wonder like, because you live in so much more tech than most of us do, I wonder if you've A, experienced it the same, if you think there's something there,

and then B, what you think is driving it, maybe even just through the lens of tech and everything you've seen. Totally. Okay, so I think with most reasonable things, there's two sides of every coin, right? And we are both mostly experiencing it on the consumer side. So we are trying to spend our money on something that is hopefully good. And there are lots of things that you can buy that are fine and you don't really think twice about it.

It's like, I just bought these headphones, they're in 90 bucks, they showed up on Amazon, they were fine, I plugged it in, whatever, great. I'm not gonna remember that. And then every once in a while, there's a couple that really suck and you have a really strong reaction to that. As a consumer, we feel validated in that.

I can't believe you're advertising this thing is gonna be good and it doesn't even exist yet. This seems horrible. Let me just flip that coin real quick. If you work for any of these tech companies, there is an immense pressure to make something that is leading and that is incredible, that stands out. And that is very, very, very, very hard.

I mean, once every decade maybe we get something that kind of feels that good, like the original iPhone maybe was one of the last ones that we remember in our lifetime. And a lot of these companies and these people that lead these teams and that work on these projects and that engineer and that do these things, they all feel this pressure. And whatever opportunity they feel like they can latch onto to maybe have a shot at making that next big thing, they're going to try to take it. And if they appear to be lagging, they have failed again. And so AI comes along, right? Okay, so I'm a startup. I try to take it. And if they appear to be lagging, they have failed again. And so AI comes along, right?

Okay, so I'm a startup. I want to make something. Maybe I can make kind of like the next iPhone, but it's AI in a box. And maybe it's not a phone, but it's a pin. And they try to put this thing together. Oh, but I see that company over there is working on something too.

So I got to rush and put mine out. And it's out. And it's out way too early. And it's not done yet. And you see the promises they're making, earnestly. They're like, I promise in a year, this will be the greatest product you've ever bought. Just give us more time to work on it.

And again, on the consumer side, I'm like, bro, we don't care. I gave you real money today. Why does this thing so bad? I'm returning it. It's too expensive. It's a subscription. I don't want this garbage. They're not trying to scam you. They're actually trying to make something good. There's just so much pressure to be early and to be amazing.

And tech is really, really hard to make early and amazing. It's probably either early or amazing, not both. And I understand that most of it will not be both early and amazing. So stop promising it will be like, I know that you have to get not be both early and amazing. So stop promising it will be like you don't, I know that you have to get your share price up and whatever you have to appease. I don't think they're trying to scam us to be honest. And I love engineers, right?

I've spent like what? Seven, eight years working with engineers at Microsoft. This is like what I do as one of my favorite passions, right? But I think it's not that they're trying to scam us. I think that's that they're trying to scam Wall Street I think that's that they're trying to scam Wall Street. It's like they're trying to scam analysts. Like they're trying to scam, like Apple, I think one of the things that's always made them so good

is the fact that they've tried to make the thing right, not first. And that's served them well. And I feel like- And they don't invent things. That's never been their job. Yeah. The phone already existed.

And they made the best version of a phone. Yes, yes, yes. You know, a watch, and they made the best version of a phone. A watch existed, they made the best version of a digital watch. Like the Apple Vision Pro, this was the first time it felt like they were chasing because they didn't want the negative side of not being seen to chase.

And they did a thing that wasn't ready and wasn't, but I was like, oh man, you too? It's like, you know, I feel like if the shitification catches Apple, we're all in trouble in every other field. You know, I feel like if the shitification catches Apple, we're all in trouble in every other field. You know what I mean? If they're the company that is the iPhone company,

you all are the ones in 2007 that reinvented the phone that everyone carries now. I think when they looked around in 2007, you know, there were phones, but I don't think they looked around and thought, wow, there's a lot of people working on this really, really amazing capacitive touchscreen multi-touch media player. This was a genuinely new, like, series of things to combine to make the iPhone what

it was, which is why it hit so hard. I think this moment was different, which is there is an immense pressure. If you are a tech company, I better see some AI in your products, or I don't think you're leading at all. And I think they looked around and they saw everyone else. They saw Google, they saw Meta, they saw everyone making AI stuff. They saw startups making AI stuff. And they felt like if they don't do anything AI, even if, if even if you're like a year behind or two years behind,

you're gonna look behind. And that's a reputation thing, it's a pride thing, it's a shareholder thing, and they felt pressured to do something now. So they did. They announced that they'd make Apple Intelligence and that it would show up soon in software updates. And yeah, it slowly started to trickle out,

but that did feel like it was very differently inspired than some of their original successes. They were very much pressured. Christian, do you have any Luddite questions for Marquez? Cause I know- My questions are so basic. No, can I tell you why I think they're amazing? And I mean this honestly,

cause our friend David is also mega Luddite. He said something to me that has resonated with me. He said, the stupidest people in tech are the most important ones because that's who everyone is. Because you represent the people in this. Well, my favorite video is you were like four watches and you did the step count, right? And I currently use a step count for my phone. I use my iPhone. I know that's not that accurate. So I love that video of yours. I wanna know like your most practical tech product that you think like boring Luddite moms like me

can go and buy and be like, this is actually making my life better. Yeah, wow. I mean, there's so few things that are truly like value adds. No, because I like that step thing because this is like, I do like to know how many steps I'm getting in. Like it's a thing that people do like value adds in life. No, because I like that step thing, because it's just like, I do like to know how many steps I'm getting in. Like it's a thing that people do like to know, like 10,000 steps.

I know it's a myth, but I'm like, what is the product that you'd be like, buy this, it is gonna make your life that bit better. It's what technology is supposed to do. So I could go on the theme of that, because like everyone cares about different things. And if you care about the step counter, to me, there's a theme of like, I care cares about different things, and if you care about the step counter, to me there's a theme of like,

I care about the metrics in my life. Like I have the Apple Watch, and it tells me all sorts of, here's what your heart rate, resting heart rate has been for the last month. How I'm sleeping, and you know. How I'm sleeping. Yeah, so that's fun.

You can get a smart scale, and for me that's been telling me all sorts of things, trends over time. So that's an interesting one too. I didn't even know smart scales Oh. So that's an interesting one too. I didn't even know Smart Scales existed. So that's one. So Withings is a company that makes Smart Scales. You step on it, connects to an app, and yeah,

the battery dies every couple of months, so you're like annoyed that you need to recharge your scale. I started taking creatine a month ago, so I'm like tracking how it's affecting my weight. It's like actually kind of informative, so that's kind of cool. Wait, why'd you start taking pre-ecine? Because I have a bunch of teammates

who have been taking it for years and they're like, how have you not started trying it? Like I'm willing to try it. But you won. Oh, yeah. No, see, here's the thing about winning is everyone's at your throat now. You got to get better.

Someone else is going to find a way to get better than you. Man, you see, you're caught up in the game now, Marquez. This is what I'm talking about. You guys won doing the thing the way you did it, and now you're so worried about losing your spot at the top that you're gonna release AI, Marquez, before it's ready. What is it about? It's Ultimate Frisbee, right? Ultimate Frisbee, yeah. I'm working on a video, I gotta explain it, because it's always complicated. Okay, great, great, then don't spoil it here. Then don't spoil it here.

We'll all look out for that. The last thing I have to ask you, because I know my brother and his friends and a whole bunch of people would kill me if I didn't, is if you were talking to a young Marquez today, who wants to get into the game, because back in the day, people would want to get into like the TV game. Before that, people wanted to get into the radio game or whatever.

You are now that step. Like you are the thing that a child in school says, I want to be a Marquez, bro. Why would you say they should do it and why would you say they shouldn't do it? I would say being a social media person, as a career is very similar to being a professional athlete in that you really have to like doing this to be able to put in the number of hours and the amount of work required to actually make it your job. Take basketball, basketball you could play in the park, you could play for free, you could play against your friends.

But if I wanna be a professional basketball player, there's some level of, first of all, luck, but dedication, hard work that goes into hopefully getting you over to the next level to actually be able to make it your job. And it's very competitive even while it is your job. And so think about before you start, if this is something that you actually like doing enough

to be able to put those hours in. Because people see the final result, but are you willing to put in those hours? How long does it take you to make a video just so people get, because again, some people watch the video and they're like, well, I watched the video and it was 15 minutes. It took you 15 minutes.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Maybe, so we're working on a smartphone awards video right now, which it's going to be a 30-minute video when it comes out, but it's going to take a week to edit this video. A lot of them take a week to write before they take a week to edit. Damn. We just had a call today of a video we're planning that should hopefully come out around May, so four to six months.

So it depends on the video, but they don't take no time. I'll put it that way. Okay. So that's why you shouldn't and why should you? You should because if you do enjoy playing basketball in the park, you're going to love being a pro baller. So if you enjoy making videos, if you enjoy tech, for example, even though it comes with more pressure, even though it comes with more scrutiny, you're going to enjoy the privilege of being able to share

tech with the world. So do it. Marques, I cannot thank you enough. You have not only kept me entertained for many hours, you've saved me and millions of other people lots of money. Can I just put that out there? That's great. Because of you. Not really. I think before you we only knew something was bad when we bought it. And I think you my friend are like a warrior in the war against shitification. Because really, because of you there's sometimes where I'm like, I guess I don't need that device. So yeah, man, I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time and I hope we see you again soon.

For sure. Yeah, always willing to get in the trenches for you. Let's do it. Thanks for having me. Thank you. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin and Jodie Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackle. Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, Mixing and Mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now? Thanks for watching!