What Now? with Trevor Noah - Jessica Alba Is Standing in Her Power [VIDEO]

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

Actor and entrepreneur Jessica Alba discusses the challenges and the misogyny she faced starting The Honest Company, how she slowly reclaimed her identity, and why ten years later she has stepped away from the company. She and Trevor also debate whether it’s better to be killed with a gun or with a knife (on a movie set, not in real life where both are bad). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If I'm gonna die, I would like to die in my bed old and then fade away. That's preferable. Now, if I had to choose, they forced me. They said, are you gonna get shot or are you gonna get stabbed? What would you choose? I would choose stabbed. Just because I feel like there's like an intimate moment between myself and the person stabbing me. Oh, okay.

Where I can like look and you say something. That's what I like. You get to say something. If you're shot, it might just be over. It's very loud. It's done. Yeah, it is loud. When you're stabbed, I can just like look at the person and say something. Oh, it might just be over. It's very loud. It's done. Yeah, it is loud. When you stab, I can just like look at the person and say something like, oh, it was you all along. I like that.

I like that moment. I like that. I like that moment. This is What Now with Trevor Noah. Your team requested a ride, but this time, not from you. It's through their Uber Teen account. It's an Uber account that allows your team to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your team to your Uber account today.

FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do. Enjoy the number one feeling winning in an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600,

or visit connexontario.ca. Please play responsibly. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney Plus. In season three, Carmy and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins,

the show starring Jeremy Allen White, I.O.A. Debris, and Mattie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Hi, Jessica Alba.

Hi. Haven't done an interview in a really long time. I'm a little bit nervous. You haven't? But don't think of it as an interview. Think of it as a conversation. If it's an interview, then I failed. I haven't had a conversation in a really long time.

I'm feeling really nervous. I'm feeling really nervous. Oh, that's hilarious. So like in most conversations, I wouldn't introduce you, but let's say there was a third person here and they just walked up and then I would say, oh, hey, hey viewer. Let's say my friend was viewer or listener. Hey viewer listener, very strange name. Their parents wanted something interesting that would get people talking. Hey viewer listener, what's up? Oh yeah, no, nice to see you. Oh, this is my friend was viewer or listener. Hey viewer listener, very strange name. Their parents wanted something interesting that would get people talking. Hey viewer listener, what's up? Oh yeah, no, nice to see you. Oh, this is my friend. This is my friend, Jessica.

Yeah, Jessica. She, yeah, yeah, known her for years. She does a bunch of things. You know, she, she, she acts when she wants to really, you know, she starts like companies that make, you know, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars, but also make people feel good about the products they're using. I stand to be corrected, but Honest was the first time I even heard conversations around like, you know, paraben-free and all these like something free. And I remember there was all these words. I didn't understand them.

Toxic chemicals. All of it was like all these words. I was like, I don't know what these things are. Wait, they're in the other things we use? What's happening here? Yeah. Yeah, and she's a very smart person. She's very thoughtful.

She's also very funny. She doesn't take herself too seriously. You two should get to know each other. You don't know each- Oh, you have heard- Oh, Jessica Alba. Yes, yes, that's the same Jessica. That's how I would introduce you. This is the conversation. Okay.

Hi, Jessica Alba. Hi. Hi, viewer person as well. I hope I've made it. Is it completely not awkward now? No, it's totally awkward. Thank you, Trevor. I appreciate that. I tried my best.

I tried my best. Welcome. Welcome to the conversation. I'm very excited because you were acting and you were blowing up at a time when I was watching things. Like on… So, you know, like, I feel like in life… You didn't watch anything. No, I actually didn't really. I didn't really. So, yeah, so I grew up in a very strict family. Like, my mom was very religious, very strict, so she limited what I could watch.

Oh, yeah. So, like, I couldn't watch The Simpsons when I was young because my mom, this is crazy. My mom saw a bumper sticker of Bart Simpson pulling the finger. And then she was like, she remembered that. She's like, that little yellow thing pulled the finger. And then somewhere someone wrote an article that the Ninja Turtles and Bart Simpson were satanistic. And so my mom wouldn't allow me to watch any of that. Oh. And so, yeah, so I had a very limited…

You were deprived. I was. I was very limited. And then I got to a certain age and my mom was like, you are now free to watch whatever you want. And then, boom, there you were on your motorbike, dark angel. And I remember having every feeling as a human being. And I was just like, this is the greatest experience of my life. And that's why I'm so excited because now you're back into it. So, so maybe let's start with that.

How does it feel? How does it feel coming back into a world that you have so many feelings about positive, negative luke, neutral, you know? How does it feel? Jessica Alba's back as an action star. I feel so official when you say it for some reason. So when I'm on a set, it feels like home. It feels like I'm with my people. I think because I, maybe because I grew up in my early years on a military

base and I started acting so young, being on a set and that like nomadic life and essentially you're like circus people, right? It's all the sort of like freaks and weirdos of their family are who end up usually in the business. And they just feel like my people. They feel like home. You've always, you know what it is, it's like, you're not just somebody who wants to act in action films. It's almost like you're an action aficionado who likes the integrity of what's happening in the fight and what's going on behind the scenes. So talk to me a little bit about that. Like, what is it about action in particular that you enjoy? I think because I grew up on lethal weapon

and Beverly Hills Cop. Oh, I like this. OK. You know, I loved that genre growing up. And it was always men who got to do it. And they were saving the chick. And I was like, what if the chick was the main event here? What if the chick was saving herself? No.

What? Yeah. And then James Cameron picked me when I was 17, you know, out of thousands of people, to really be the star of this wild idea, which is this post-apocalyptic dystopian future where there's genetically engineered humans. And I was in the writer's room with them because they only had three paragraphs written when they hired me and they wrote the character and the rest of the story kind of around who they were going to cast. And I think

because they gave me a seat at the table when I was 17, and I trained with stunt people, so I'm a trained stunt person essentially. I don't know, I feel like that's probably where I feel most comfortable. I never felt comfortable in Hollywood settings, like more traditional Hollywood, where we've met, you know, the Vanity Fair party or the Golden Globes or that. That's where I always felt wildly uncomfortable, but I've always felt really comfortable on a set. You felt uncomfortable in those settings? Oh, yeah. Wait, why? You seem like you fit in. No, no, I don't know. I just never was part of, never really had like a crew or like a group of people or a community.

Yeah, and I think because the nature of being a young actress and how they brainwash us is that we should be competitive with one another, you know, and I think that that breeds a bit of like isolation in a way, but I always felt like I was competing against men. I never felt like I was competing against other women. I was always excited if there was another chick around, you know, I was like, yes. Did you feel, did you feel that that was reciprocated at the time and and do you

feel like it's changed since? I don't think women really got me until after I had created a company, it was successful and had a bunch of kids. I think that's when women, and I worked really hard on trying to make sure that women knew that I am a girl's girl, you know. Right. Because if I just allowed PR of projects that I was in, tell the story of who I was, it was really like a fanboy fantasy kind of person, right? It wasn't, there was no real truth there. I've always wondered what that felt like from your side.

As a human being, you're having an experience. And oftentimes what we take for granted is the experience that we're having of other people isn't necessarily what they're having of themselves. So you were in the industry, you're in Hollywood at a time when it's really curated. There was no social media. There was no way for you to speak to your fans or to your audience or to anybody on the outside. And I like that you say that that fanboy image, you know, did you ever feel like you were

being pigeonholed or put into a specific space where it's like, you know, Jessica, you have to be the sex bomb that's looking like this in the leather pants and this is the only way you can exist? I think that no matter what role, whether I was doing like a dance movie, you know, to inspire young girls like Honey or if I was Dark Angel where I was a genetically engineered like super human or if I was Sue Storm, who was a very like maternal kind of superhero, they would always feel like they needed to sell me to the fanboys in a certain way. And it wasn't just me, it was all of us, right, at the time.

And so yes, there were like two or three of these men's magazines that we would all do to try and get those fanboys to go and show up and watch whatever it is that we were selling. But I would always try to do three to four women's magazines. So for every one guy, I would do three to four women's to try and keep the balance there. You have to be strategic. I think it taught me when I thought about longevity in the business, I think being portrayed that way forced me to be even more strategic, probably at a very early age. I went back and looked at some of your early interviews and-

I'm so embarrassed. No, you shouldn't be because it's really interesting to see that that trait is even evident back then. In some of your earliest interviews you talk about wanting to be a producer, you talk about wanting to get behind the camera, you talk about wanting to control the environment that you're in. And back then, I'm sure if people read it and saw it, it would just seem like a nice thing to say.

But when we look at Hollywood and the industry in hindsight now, you know, everything, the Harvey Weinsteins, the Me Too movement, looking at the insidious nature of agents and what was happening and, you know what I mean? When we look at it now, when I go back and read some of your interviews, it almost seems like you are sometimes either prescient or you were speaking through what was happening

and you were trying to say, hey, I would like to have a little control so that I'm not at the mercy of this machine. Did you feel at times or did it seem that you couldn't be everything you wanted to be in the industry and you just had to be one idea? Yeah, for sure. I think it's difficult for people once they have, I think, an idea of who you are in their mind and they've put you in Maxim and you're in Esquire and GQ and, you know, they have you in those things. It's tough for them to imagine that you could be intelligent, that you could have a soul, that you could have depth of emotions or be dynamic in any way.

And I think I also had to wrestle with those stereotypes even on myself. It took me probably three years after I found it honest until I really started to embrace the notion that I could be smart. Wow. The notion that I could be smart. Wow. The notion that you could be smart. Yeah. I allowed my co-founders who I brought on and who I pitched them the idea, but I let them take credit for finding me, even though it was the other way around. Wow. And I didn't actively change that narrative for a long time.

Where do you think that came from or what do you think that was? Because many people, I think, can identify or relate to being in an environment, whether it's in the office, whether it's in starting a company, whether it's even on a small level in a friend group sometimes, where people feel like they aren't credited with who they are, what they've brought to the table. Where do you think that came from?

I've tried to unpack this a bit, that years of therapy and everything, I think it really has to do with my family growing up in a very racist and segregated environment. My grandfather and my grandmother having to assimilate them having to essentially brainwash and train their children into believing that they don't have brown skin in a way, so that they can get through the day or life without feeling the restrictions of what that meant. My dad was six, I think, when segregation kind of stopped between Mexicans and whites in Southern California. And he has a lot of shame around what that means and how he has always been treated. He's undeniably Mexican. I asked him not too long ago, I was like,

dad, when there's cops looking for a brown guy running through Claremont, do you get stopped? And he's like, probably every time. And because we were talking about voting. And I was like, you know, dad, I think it may be voting for the wrong side. You know, just trying to like ease him into voting differently. I'm like, do you get stopped extra every time you go to the airport? And he's like, yes, 100%. And I was like, so maybe we

should start thinking about maybe voting differently for someone who kind of under, you know, maybe a party that is more sympathetic towards what it's like to walk through the world being you. It is funny knowing that that is my history. Now, when I think of like, oh yeah, this is why it took me three years for me to even embrace this idea that I could be intelligent, that I deserve what I've worked for and stand in my power in a way. Yeah. It took me a while.

When you're working from the age of 12, I can only imagine that you miss out on a lot of childhood. You know, my mom always used to say to me, she would say to me, she'd like force me to play. Not that you had to, but my mom would say to me, she'd be like, hey, honey, go and do things, go and play, go and play, that's good, good, good, good. And then when I was a little older and I'd be like buying things, I'd buy like a flashy car, or I'd get like a trashy car and I'd put rims on it that really didn't match what was happening. And my mom would see it and then she'd be like, no, good, good.

And it was almost like she was roasting me a little bit without realizing it. She'd be like, oh, I can see you, you needed to put earrings on an ugly person to make it look better. I see what you did there, baby. And I'll be like, what? And she's like, no, no, do it. She said, it's good. You should play now as a boy so that when you're a man, you don't try to live the life that you didn't get when you were younger. Go ahead.

Be a boy. And I'm like driving away with my rims. Like, I don't think that was a compliment. But it did always stick with me. go ahead, be a boy, be a boy. And I'm like driving away with my rims, like I don't think that was a compliment. But it did always stick with me. You know, the thing that my mom was saying was, she was saying, there are stages in life where you need to be living according to that stage.

And I've always wondered about, especially, you know, actors who act from a young age, it looks like it's fun, but it's still work. Did that rob you or did that, you know, shift your ability to be a child? Have you been able to experience childhood in any way? Like... Yes.

I think I do it through my kids. Oh, I love that. Yeah. So I've... I feel like I have given them the life I didn't have. And so I get to be present with them and live through their eyes and sit with them and allow them to really be kids and be have temper tantrums and I'm still there, you know, hold space for them and then let them be joyful and silly and goofy

and all that, yeah. What's your favorite thing you've experienced through your kids' eyes? Something that you never got to experience. I don't think my parents did this on purpose and so I don't want them to take it the wrong way. I always felt a layer of cynicism whenever I was being completely me,

when I was uninhibited. There was always a comment. I don't know if I ever really felt the freedom of just being me. So every moment that my kids exist is great because they're just being me. So every moment that my kids exist is great because they're just being them. And it's like so beautiful because they're all very different,

but they get to just be them. And I'm not in any way kind of confining that or putting them in a box. I felt like I never really had that freedom. And I think that's why actually I started acting so young, because it gave me the freedom to be someone else. Do you still have that joy and that passion? You've come back, which I might be wrong, but I would assume means there is a joy and there's a passion that you find

in acting that's special. There's something cathartic, I think, about, yes, it's written and there's a script and there's a character and there's other actors, but there's something about this moment that you create with people. And the fact that I get to be in someone else's skin gives me this freedom, it's very liberating.

It forces me to be wildly present. And I think, I'm not sure outside of my children, anything else that does that. It's awesome. I hope to do it more, but only work with people I love instead of assholes. I think that's- I mean, that's a great way to be.

I think that's where I'm going now. That's a great way to be. Yeah. And trigger warning, you're playing a person who's really an expert in, what military division were they in? What are you- She's special forces. Special forces, all right.

And you know, she comes back home, she's lost her father. But it's interesting, in what military division were they in? What are you? Special forces. Special forces. All right. And you know, she comes back home, she's lost her father. But it's interesting. Like, when I first saw the synopsis, I was like, okay, I think I know what this movie will look like. And that's the key thing, what it'll look like, what it'll feel like. But in many of the scenes, it feels a little grittier.

It feels a little more real. It feels like you've always wanted to make this kind of action movie where the action is almost happening in the world of a real character as opposed to a character who's just there in service of the action. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. We're gonna have amazing action sequences and it's gonna be fun, right? But to me, it's always more fun if you could really feel

a connection or invest invested in the story. Yeah. It makes the payoff and the action that much more gratifying if you're invested in some way. Do you like getting kicked and punched? I like doing the kicking and punching. If someone clips that, it's going to come up very wrong. Context, context, context. I approve. In films, I will state that all again, in film.

Do you enjoy being faked? Film only. No, because you'd get bruised, you would get, like back in the day, back in all- I could sell a punch. I don't like it when they accidentally hit, that sucks. Did you get fewer or more injuries filming, trigger warning, than you did in previous films?

Because you've done everything, Grant McGah, you know what I mean? And there was like knife fighting in it, but like a specific type of knife fight. Yeah, Indonesian. Because, well, the director is Indonesian. So she was like familiar with this specific type of knife fighting. And what's good about it is you can be small,

and you can take down big people. And so it's a certain technique that would make it believable that I could take good about it is you can be small and you can take down big people. And so it's a certain technique that would make it believable that I could take down, you know, big men. And so that's, I wanted, and I wanted to not, I mean, it's kind of a vulgar way of saying it, but if you know you're doing an action movie,

you know people are going to probably get injured. I preferred to do it with a knife. Huh. Versus a gun. Oh, say more. Now I'm intrigued. Jessica Alba would like to stab you, not shoot you. Why? Um, because I just feel like it's too easy. Guns almost feel like a cop out, in a way. Oh, wow. Like, you don't need skill, really. I mean you-

No, no, I know what you mean. You know. You don't- I think it's more fun- To stab someone. We're gonna continue this conversation right off there, this short break. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling saying I do.

Who wants his last parachute? I do. Enjoy the number one feeling, winning, in an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca Please play responsibly. Everyone's got a thirst, a drive to be the next big thing to put the world on notice. If you answer when your thirst calls sprites for you sprites for the makers and creators, the

visionaries putting in the work to build their dreams. Whether you're shooting a cinematic masterpiece on your phone, filling notebooks with sketches, or up all night turning your bedroom into the booth, thirst is everything. Obey your thirst. Bright. You know, I was chatting to friends about this before our conversation and I was like, it really is wild to think that there was a time when a celebrity slash well-known person, actor, singer, whatever you want to call it, there was a time when they would not be involved in anything business. It was just not possible.

I mean, now it seems so obvious. People are like, I've got my tequila. I've got my clothing brand. I've got my makeup brand. I've got... Everyone's like, yeah, you can do it. In fact, sometimes people just do it to do it now. There was a time when it was impossible.

And you stepped into this world where nobody, and I mean, nobody thought it was possible because it really hadn't been done before. And you set out to create what went on to be a listed company. Talk me through that journey. Like when you look back on it, what do you think it was that prompted you to step into a world that really wasn't sexy at the time? No. You know, and- The opposite. you to step into a world that really wasn't sexy at the time? No. You know, and- The opposite.

Yeah, it was the complete unknown. When you're starting a company, why did you want to do that? I have always been genuinely like keeps me up at night, social justice warrior. I've always been since I was little. I mean, there's like a tape of me when I was five or six at Disneyland talking about being a feminist and a modern day woman. And I have this thick Texas accent.

And I was like, I'm a feminist, I'm a modern woman. I don't need a man, you know? And I'm like this little kid spewing this stuff. Wow. And Mickey Mouse is standing there like, in the background. I just want to know if you want a picture or not. Yeah, exactly. Oh, you crazy lady.

Okay, calm down. I was a little girl with like wild ideas. Where did you get them from? I don't, this is the nature versus nurture thing. I have no idea. I came in with this idea that, you know, women needed to be treated with fairness and people who were poor shouldn't be treated inhumanely. And I knew because my parents struggled

in paycheck to paycheck, how lucky I was as a kid to get the type of care I got with my health, um, because my dad was in the military. So that gave us medical and, and they paid for housing. And so that, that really helped with the fact that he made like 14,000 a year, right? You know? And so yeah, from very early age, I would say if I get to be successful,

I'm gonna do something good with my life and use me to make a difference. And then when I learned about people getting poisoned from their everyday products without knowing about it, I lobbied on Capitol Hill. I like did everything I could to try and bring awareness to it. But the only way to Hill. I like did everything I could to try and bring awareness to it. But the only way to really change habits is to create a solution. And if I can get

people to choose to buy the better thing, then it can hopefully make an influence on the industry to do it better because they can see that this is what the consumer wants. Yeah. I can't see you walking into many rooms back then without the resume you have now, and without the industry changing the way it does now. One of the more interesting stories I remember being told was there was somebody who was trying to pitch a makeup brand for darker skin tones.

And they were told, oh, no, but black women don't really buy makeup. And the person was like, yeah, because there's no makeup for black women. And they were like, no, I think black women don't really buy makeup. And the person was like, yeah, because there's no makeup for black women. And they were like, no, I think black women don't buy makeup. And then Rihanna comes along with Fenty and now everyone goes, we've got to get into the space.

It's huge, it's grown. And it's like, oh, so you had to see it before you believed that the people existed. Well, I had to first educate the consumer, then I had to get them to want to buy after I educated them. And it kind of took off like a rocket ship. Let me start by asking you the end question.

One of the more fascinating things I ever heard was it was Jensen Huang, the CEO of Nvidia, who is now easily like one of the most powerful people in the world because he's essentially controlling how AI is going to move. But someone asked him, they said, hey, if you could do it again, or if you were talking to somebody else who was going to do it, what advice would you give them? And he says, don't. Same. And I remember hearing him, he's like, wait, what?

And he's like, don't do it. He said, if I knew everything I knew today about what it took to get this company going, to keep it going and to get where I got to today, I would say, don't do it. Too much pain, too much blood, too much sweat, too many tears, too many disappointments. Don't do it. And there's a strange, like, tiredness that you'll feel in people, founders particularly, founders who have been there from the beginning, who've had to grow something into this idea more than just a company. Yeah, it is an idea.

Like what advice would you give to yourself knowing if you're in that interstellar moment and you're seeing young Jessica Elba who's about to go into Honest. What advice would you give to her? Stop looking to men for validation. Damn. Wow. Huh. How do you think that played out in a company structure?

I think in a company structure, I kept feeling like I needed to. It was like the cat chasing its tail in a way. I knew intuitively what this company was created for, why it existed, why it mattered. Most people who came in didn't understand any of it and needed to collect data to justify them wanting to participate in the success of what it was because they didn't understand frankly the consumer and why the consumer would want this. And to me, it was so obvious, but to them, it was mind blowing. So from day one of pitching it all the way through to, I mean, still, it's a lot easier now. It's a lot easier, and I'm not gonna front.

It's a lot easier now. But I think they learn in business school that unless a McKinsey study or a, there's a study to verify that this is a smart choice. Like they're afraid of their own shadow in some ways. And it also makes it's, I think it's how they got promoted. It was by saying, well, what does the data say about blah, blah, blah, blah. But usually by the time data is collected, it's too late. It's not fresh anymore. And so if you're doing anything that's paving the way or changing or truly disruptive, you can't collect any data and you have to just trust the leader. And if the leader looks like somebody that they've never worked for before. They can't help but just put

you in the box that they understand. They can't help it. I used to get so upset that I felt undermined or undervalued or why are they fighting with me or why don't they just get it? Why am I even talking to them? Oftentimes they would say, let me go ask my wife. I mean, literally this was like most of the time because they were so disconnected. And I think now I wouldn't be so angry and I would be more compassionate that they only know what they know. And society has warped their brain because frankly, I was like the chick that was in Maxim and Esquire and GQ and Rolling Stone, you know, like they only saw what they saw of me and it's like, it was hard for them to wrap their heads around it,

you know, so they needed to also look at each other to validate or verify, hey, this is a legit thing that we need to get behind. But what's wonderful is the consumers were incredible and the growth was out of this world. It was hockey stick. Then the company had to really beef itself up to keep up with the growth. And that was the next stage.

So the beginning was convincing people in the business world. The second stage was beefing up your internal team to really match the consumer, the consumption. And going from being like a, you know, $12 million business to $100 million business, you are a very different business, but that growth was fast. It was fast. It was unprecedented. I'm sure at times it was scary.

You know, it's funny when you talk about the data being... And they're going to say, did that happen? I can't verify anything happened. These are all hypothetical numbers. I'm like, I know lawyers are going to come after me. These are all hypothetical numbers. I'm like, I know lawyers are gonna come after me. It's all hypothetical. It's all hypothetical. We're saying, we're using like, it's like when you say 99% of people.

That's what we're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hypothetical, hypothetical. Yes, yes, yes. I found myself wondering, I was like, wow, what is it like to experience that level of change? You know, the writer Simon Sinek has a fantastic idea where he talks about you understanding that there are two yous. There is the you as a human being and then there is the you that is, for lack

of a better term, the name badge. You know, the title. You know, here you are. It's Jessica Alba and this is the position that you inhabit. Whether it's, okay, you're the actress from this or you are the, you know, the creative director of this listed company. There's a lot that comes with that title. Like with the Daily Show, it was like that for me. It's like, okay. When your identity is so attached to it. Yeah.

And it doesn't always have to be your identity, how you see yourself. It's how people see you. And you go like, oh, if I'm going to say goodbye to this, am I also saying goodbye to people seeing me as a person? And I found myself wondering when I saw your announcement, I was like, wow, how do you know it's time to step away? What makes you step away? And how do you deal with the conflict of losing this thing that's such a big part of yourself? I wanted to leave it in a good place. When I realized that the business really needed the more kind of streamlined flow,

and not the visionary flow, I had to start thinking about what that meant for my role, and it took me a hot minute to get there. I needed to leave it in hands that I knew it would be safe and with the right team. And so I felt like I could finally, I can kind of like let my kid go off to college in a way. But it's sad, it's sad because,

yeah, it's a part of me. It's a child. So I even like thinking about my kids, all of my kids first day of kindergarten. I wept, you know, it's like, it's a milestone. I don't think it's ever easy. That's interesting. It's almost like, if I hear you correctly, you're saying it's the difficult balance of holding onto something that you love, but then also being able to let it go so that it can go on to the next stage of what it needs to be. To where it's meant to go, yeah. Huh. That is an interesting one.

Does it leave you feeling like you instantly need to do something else? Kind of, but also at the same time, I think I really need to not do that. I think I need to just sit in this space of nothingness. You were talking about like learning a language and doing pottery and you know, just random creative things. And I feel like I'm in that state as well. You jumped right into a podcast.

Yeah, well actually the podcast I didn't jump into, what I jumped into was touring incessantly. I went into a full year. I was so afraid of like the gap that I had created that I wanted to just prop myself. I was like, well, I have to do something. And then I did everything. I worked more the year after I left The Daily Show

than I did at The Daily Show, which is wild. I was everywhere, I was nowhere. And it's only when I was deep in it that I realized, I was like, oh man, what you were doing here was you were trying to run away from the silence. Stillness. Exactly. You go back to the kids leaving the house. It's the, you're trying to run away from the house,

not having something breaking, someone screaming, something being called, something. It's a scary feeling because you're not used to it. Yeah. Especially when you've been like so goal oriented and hustling for so long. Yes. Yeah, it's really weird.

How do you deal with your fear of validating yourself only by your achievements or the external things that people see? I mean, this is self-worth, right? It's weird. It's a weird journey thinking about, I guess, just this idea that I can be worthy of love or kindness or existence without achieving. Mm-hmm. You know, I remember when I was younger, I was like, I just always felt like I needed to have a point.

Like, what's my point? Like, why do I exist? Like, why did God put me here? I questioned that since I was probably three or four. I would say, what's my point to my parents? Like, what's the point of this? And I think of sometimes maybe my point or our point is to just, I don't know, sit in stillness and like breathe. And I don't know, I'm learning how to do that.

It's not easy. It isn not easy. It isn't easy. I often think about how, from a human perspective, we are the people who are generally making or creating a point for other things that are just existing. So sometimes we'll look at a flower and we go, oh, the point of it is to look beautiful and the flower is like, oh, I'm just growing. And we go, there's a point to this flower. And the flower is like, I didn't think of that, I'm just growing, I just exist and because of the very nature of my existence, I give and take and so I'm worth being, you know? Yeah. Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now after this. I know that you spent a lot of time and not a lot might sound wrong, but like you spent time with your kids in therapy, which again, when you started this was a very new concept

and new idea. Yeah, I didn't realize it was so controversial. Yeah, now, now people are like, let's talk about health, baby. Yeah, mental health. What did you do it in your brain? It's like, now it's cool. Now it's cool. But there was a time.

I was doing it early before they went talking about it. Jessica Alba says, I'm going to therapy with my kids and people are like, what did she do to them? Yeah, it was really weird. It was kind of the first time I got that kind of backlash as a parent. You've been mom shamed? I've been, yeah, of course.

Wow. Yeah, it's weird how people have like very strange, judgy perceptions, but I had a really tough adolescence and it was hard for me to find my way back to my mom. And we have a complicated, very loving, but complicated relationship. And I just wanted it to be easier between my girls and me and myself. I didn't want there to be years of fighting and misunderstanding and not, and missing each other.

You know, I wanted, I just wanted it to be different. and misunderstanding and missing each other. I just wanted it to be different. So when I started seeing and feeling the, you just don't understand me thing, and I was like, I feel like I'm always scolding them and they just feel like I don't get it. Maybe this is a time where they can have a safe place where they can say whatever they want.

They will not get in trouble. And I have to be a listener and just try and figure out how to meet them where they need me so I can be a better parent. That's beautiful. I love that. I love that because if I hear what you're saying, it's like in many ways you're doing the thing or you wanted the thing that many of us take for granted and that is the opportunity to interrupt the cycles that we experience in our families, you know, our

inability to communicate, our conflict. So it seems like you were trying to actively step in and change something that most people just go like, well, that's the way our family is. Right. What was the one thing that you had to change or you had to learn from therapy that you were like shocked by? Because therapy always does it. It'll show you a side of yourself that you didn't know or want to acknowledge and then you have to go out into the world and face that. So I think because even though I was right, What a great beginning to a sentence. Even though I'm right in many of these circumstances,

it's not about being right. It's just about them feeling like they can express themselves authentically. And it's not even about finding the right or the wrong answer. And I was always so like, so black and white, like what's the lane? Like where's the path of least resistance? Like what's more efficient?

Like, and my kids and humans are gray, man. They're like, they're mushy. And my kids and humans are gray, man. They're like, they're mushy. And it was, when the therapist was just kind of like, it's not really about getting to the right answer. It's just about letting them feel how they wanna feel regardless of whether it's right or wrong and you holding space for that. And the more they kind of resist

you and push against you is actually a relief. It's the more comfortable that they are that they have a safe place to be to express themselves authentically. And so that helped a lot. How did it affect your relationship or how you related to your parents? I mean, I would say the more work I do, the more compassion I have for my parents, for sure. They only know what they were taught. And we all do. Yeah. And if they didn't heal their trauma for whatever reason, every decision from then on is just piling on from that one traumatic event and then life is mirroring that with various people, whatever it is. I can't blame them for that. Now, also, my lived experience needs to also,

that's my truth, but I think it really allowed me to heal by going through this with my kids and give my parents grace. I like that for you. What's the biggest thing you're struggling with right now that you wish you could change instantly, but you can't? The stillness is hard. It is?

It's really hard, yeah. Do you meditate? Mm-hmm. But it's still hard. You know why? Because if I could go and live, isolate myself and be completely alone and just meditate all day and do that, I think it would be a lot easier. But interacting with the life, the everyday life, and trying to be fucking still is really hard. That's, you can relate.

Oh yeah, I had an argument with a monk about this. Yes, I'm that kind of person. I was in Bhutan and there was a monk I was chatting to. This monk was like, well, the stillness. And I was like, it was beautiful. Don't get me wrong. There was a lot of things that I learned. And then the monk, I said, well, I said, that's why you have to go to other places, right?

So you can try and, you know, find your calm or find your still or find your peace. And then the monk was like, yes, but you can always find it inside yourself. And I was like, well, not always, you can try, but you can remember what it feels like, but not always. And he was like, no, always. I was like, it's not always. I was like, yo, man, you live like in a monastery and you always go on top of a mountain. I was like, why man, you live like in a monastery and you always go on top of a mountain. I was like, why do you go there? Because you know that if there were kids screaming running around or if there were cars driving by, it's a lot harder to connect to that thing.

And if they need help with their homework or if someone was wronging them at school and spreading a rumor or one wants to play with monster trucks on your freaking bed and you're like, I can't have any more monster trucks on my bed. Yeah. So I know I, I agree with that. I, um, I'll struggle with the stillness, but then I'll find it in random moments. Um, it's probably why I stay up late because that's where I find my stillness comes. There's just like a little, just a little piece where I go like, oh,

okay, this is silent. This is me. My time. little piece where I go like, oh, okay, this is silent. This is me. What's your time? My time? Mm-hmm. I think I'm the most still and the most me at like midnight 1 a.m.

That's when I... If I'm struggling, I do what I like to call worst-case scenarioing and I borrow. I borrow as deep as I can. I've actually recommended this to people. I think sometimes what we do- You put your head in the sand? No, no, no. It's quite the opposite. So sometimes what I think we do is we will be told, and this became a trend a few years

ago where people would go like, no, think of how good it is. Think of how you think you came through that. And I understand that positive framing, but I think people take for granted that when you have anxiety, what you're doing is you're really applying too long-term thinking to what might be a temporary feeling. Right? So what I do is I do the opposite. Instead of trying to hold myself back, I go with it.

And I'm like, all right, what's the worst that could happen? So let's say it's a show. I'm like, oh, I'm having a little anxiety about that show. I'm like, okay, what's the worst that can happen? What if the people don't laugh? I'm like, and then? And then it's a terrible show. I'm like, and then? And then they're gonna, and then the show's done.

I'm like, and then? And then I'll do another show. And then? And I'm like, well, I guess that's it. And I promise you, it makes a big difference. I go like, what is, because sometimes I think because you're trying to hold yourself back from understanding that the worst case scenario isn't actually that bad.

Yeah, it's just like, all right, what's the worst that could happen? And then when you see it, you're like, I guess. Shmeh. Shmeh. I like that. Shmeh. Where did you learn that? Oh, just from me. Oh, really? Yeah. I was just like, I can't keep on doing this whole like, be positive and think. No. Ask yourself, what is the worst that could happen genuinely go into it and you'll be shocked at how many times the worst may still be terrible but you acknowledging what it is can sort of help you either avoid it or understand where it lays you know it's a or what's so scary yeah yeah it sort of dissipates its power.

It does. It does indeed. That's interesting. It was actually Charlie Munger, who is Warren Buffett's business partner for many years, he passed away. But he said this beautiful quote. He said, I don't want to know when I will die or how I will die. He said, I just want to know where I will die. Just tell me

where I will die so that I can never go there. And I think it's sort of the same approach. Totally. I would love to know like what now? What now for you as a human being? And not what's next, by the way. What now? What now? Yeah, that's interesting. It might be your shortest answer. Oh, go, I love that. I don't know. Huh.

I really don't know. That is beautiful. I mean this, right? No, and I mean it. That is beautiful. Thank you for that. Jessica Alba, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Thank you for having me. partnership with Day Zero Productions and Fullwell 73. The show is executive produced by Trevanoa, Ben Winston, Sanaz Yamin, and Jody Avigan.

Our senior producer is Jess Hackl. Marina Henke is our producer. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now? Of what now?