What Now? with Trevor Noah - John Cena: I Ate the Puke Burger

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

What happens when one of the biggest stars in wrestling history decides to completely start over?John Cena isn't who you think he is—and in this raw, deeply reflective sit-down with Trevor and Eugene, he proves it. From facing the fear of losing everything to questioning society’s obsession with success, the WWE legend turned bonafide movie star delivers a masterclass in self-awareness, aging, and what is takes to evolve beyond the roles that define us. He also opens up about his most personal choices, from why he doesn't want kids to healing his relationship with his father, before offering a powerful mindset shift on why we should replace the word "deserve" with "earn". Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

What part of your body has taken the biggest hits? Like when you feel your body in the morning, is it your shoulders, is your knees, is it your, is there any part of your body where you go like? Yeah, because his hand is tired. Yeah, that's a breadmaker. That's a moneymaker dog. Is there something that you have kept from your days of not having money that like just still sticks with you? Being broke.

Like, I'm never going back. John Sina teaches us how to use deal words. When you look at what we do, tons of crowd shots, crowds chant. They're literally like European football crowds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we don't want them to shut up. We want them to keep being as rowdy as you can because if we perform to apathetic silence,

it's really just kind of two guys in their underwear doing stunts. Sounds like a normal Saturday for you. Yeah. You know about that, right? Hey, I was too slow. You know what I'm talking about? You know what I hate you? I was too slow.

They sometimes want to heal the relationship that they never had with their fathers by having kids. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Wow, man. That's goosebumps. Wow, that's, yeah. Do you still remember your bully, by the way? Because I remember my bully, so I, and I'm always in, you don't remember your, were you bullied, first of all.

No, I don't know if you were or weren't. Maybe you were the bully. It's happening now. Oh, man, don't be like that. That's a two blitz. That was it. You saw me. I was like, brother.

Let's get out of here. I just find it fascinating that, like, everyone remembers. remembers they're bullied. Show me, I'm yet. What's a record you want to break? I said life expectancy. I want as many days as I can get because it's beautiful.

I don't want this to end. You know, and it will, and that's okay. But I have that appreciation. I think I've always had it. I just couldn't put it into words. My actions define that like, yo, this dude is going for life. He's going at it.

John's seen, everybody. That's it. Bam-ba-b-ba-ba-ba. That's a too. This is What Now, What Now, with Trevor Noah. You know what I've never seen before? Yeah. I saw it at your house.

I saw this deodorant that doesn't smell like anything. Yeah. Just like a neutral. Wait, what's the point? Because you don't... Well, stuff sweat. Thank you. Yeah.

Wait, it stops the sweat. Yeah. And then you smell like what? Well, you can have a scent for that. have a cologne or a perfume. No, guys. Doesn't it throw you off that you put on? Because you always wear something that smells really nice.

Yeah. Doesn't it throw you off that then you're also putting on an underarmed deodorant that smells different to that? Yeah, because the combat is different under there. Yeah, but you don't need... Like, that's guerrilla warfare. That's trench warfare. Yeah, but you don't need...

You just need to smell prevention. Yeah. Yeah, that's all you need. So that just blocks the sweat. Yeah. No, man. But it says scentless. Yes.

Yeah. It didn't say stop sweatness. No, that's what it does. If it says deodorant, you generally assume that it stops the sweat. Yeah. You know what gets me in my life sometimes is I go, I can't believe John Sina has to teach you about deodorant. Well, he spent half of his life without a shirt. You're right.

A lot of armpit sweat. A lot of armpit sweat. Can I just say thank you, man. It's been a while. Thanks for having me back. No, but not thanks. But not thanks. Eugene, nice to meet you.

Nice meeting you, man. First time we've met each other. Can't say, like... We're looking forward to this. Thanks for helping me dive into deodorant. Yeah, right? No, because you... Really testing my knowledge?

Wait a second, no, that's the purpose of it, it's to start sweat. It's nothing to do with that. That'll just be like the episode title, John Sina teaches us how to use deodorant. That's it. That's all he came to do. That's all he came to do.

But no, man, you're busy. You're on the road, making movies, doing your thing. You know, you're just like... I appreciate that, but there's always time to just catch up with folks, man. There's always time. You know that.

I love that about you. You just have like a... I've always wondered, is your vibe because of Massachusetts or is your vibe because of you? Ooh. So what I'm hearing is, is it environmental or like experience driven? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you have a very welcoming,

easygoing vibe. Warm, wise, folksy vibe to you. That's not Massachusetts. There's a turn. I'm out there called mass holes, and that is a real thing. So your explanation, thank you very much for the kind words. I would say that's less geography and probably more life experience. How different are you to your siblings in that regard?

I think we grow more similar every day. Really? Yeah, I think, you know, as we get into the, I guess, Act 3 of our life, we're not trying to be heard as much. You know, I grew up in a household with four brothers, and we're all real close. My oldest brother is 52. I'm going to be 50. Then it's 48, 46.

50. Yeah, yeah. There's no way you're turning 50. In April, I hope so. I haven't made it there yet, but I hope so. You look good for 50. Thanks, man. I'll take, I look good and great.

Yeah, half a century. I would have never guessed 50. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're all real close. And I think, you know, growing up, you only got two parents. You struggle for identity and attention. And, like, who am I? Like, oh, my older brother was into theater.

into tech. Okay. I kind of led the charge of playing sports. So then, like, I played football. So my other brother played baseball. And my younger brother wrestled because he couldn't play football because I was like, John's thing. And then baseball's dance thing.

So it's like, I think we're less now searching for our identity. Yeah, yeah. And more just enjoying the time we have with each other. So I think every passing day, we become more and more okay with who we are. So do you find that you, you know, because I was, I'll, I'll, thinking about your life. Obviously, you know, I know you're coming to the show and we're going to hang out with you. God, that's a nightmare. What do you mean? Thinking about my life?

Son of a bitch. I don't wish that on anybody. I was, though. And I was going, you know, life is so interesting. So I was having this conversation with you there. I was going, when I was young, all I dreamed of was having a car that everyone would look at me in. That's all I wanted. I was like, man, I just want to be in a car. And I want people walking by me like, whoa, look at that guy and look at the car. And look at the guy. And then now the last thing I want is for anyone to be looking at me inside any vehicle. You know, you don't know what I mean?

Like I rented a car recently. We were doing shows in Cape Town and was a convertible. And then I dropped the top and then literally like two traffic lies. Some guy screamed out. I'll never forget. Whoever he was, he was a legend. Because you're like, Trevor! Have sex with me, Trevor!

And I was like, well, the roof is going back up. But in my head, I thought, I thought, was a lot. No, it was amazing. A strong opener. I loved it. Especially because he was inside. the car. Man, don't be like that.

Yeah. It's screaming at the top of his longest, but he could just ask. And what I thought to myself is, it's so funny how in life sometimes the thing you'll spend your entire childhood or your young adult life hoping for becomes the thing that you either get over

or start to want the opposite of. And I was wondering, like, when I was thinking of you getting dressed when you're a kid, like trying to be as different as possible, try. Was that part of trying to find your identity, you think? Nothing's changed, man. You think so?

Yeah. I look like a chocolate bar with pumpkin streaks. You know, I think... I think now you're like blend in. I actually think fashion is expression. It's also... You feel comfortable. I feel comfortable in this.

This was me at like 12, just the MC Hammer pants, and it was not a suit jacket. It was just like that kid and play rayon top front. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm kind of doing the same thing, you know. It's interesting you bring that up. I think as we evolve, obviously, we shouldn't be the same person we were yesterday. Right, yeah.

And also, I don't think it's restricted to just being a young person. I think we're always searching for a greener grass. I think that's human nature, right? You know, I got this, but, yo, if I could only get this, life, I'd be on easy street. The problem is that's not true. There really is no easy street. There's just every situation comes with its own set of issues, its own set of pros and its own set of cons. Granted, that's, you know, you're on a relative scope.

there are people that are, you know, brought into this world who really have some steep hills to climb. Yeah. And wanting to aspire to do more. That's great. But I think, at least in my experiences, when I've focused on the, if I just get this, I'll be happy. Yeah. As soon as I get that, I'm just looking for the next thing. Hadonic adaptation, man.

You know, so for me, it's more like, how can I move through space with happiness that's not attached to material objects or even gold. base. You know what I'm saying? How can I just live a good life? Yeah. How can you fall in love with the process as opposed to the outcome? Yeah, man. That's one of the hardest things though. Dude, it's not easy. That's, and like people throw that around in the pages of books and they'll talk about it on like motivational clips. That shit's hard. But it's because nobody sells us, you know what I've, for myself at least, what I've realized is nobody advertises the process to us in general, right? So if you think about it, you know, you and I've had this conversation. there are so many young boys who grow up dreaming of a Ferrari

and I mean like full on dreaming oh man Ferrari Ferrari Ferrari if I can get a Ferrari if I can ever and they believe it they truly believe that a Ferrari is the car that they want but what we don't realize is none of us have ever driven it but we all know that it's the car for us we all believe that it's the car that will come with a certain lifestyle and I always think so many of us

are unlucky or lucky to bump into the thing and then experience this strange moment of like, where's the happiness? Because you go, if I get the Rolex, the happiness comes. If I get the Ferrari, the happiness comes. If I get the fame, the happiness comes. If I get the promotion, the happiness comes. If I get the... And a lot of these things do come with a level of happiness.

You know, I never say to people don't want something. I always say to you, wanting is not the issue. But it's what you just said. Oftentimes we want what we've never had, believing it'll give us something that we actually have had, which is a feeling. That always, like, throws me. And I also think it's okay to like, man, I'm an auto enthusiast.

And I'm wearing the crown. This is my one. What you got there? This is my one. I used to get into the watch game, but I only have one left. What size? Do they have to add extra links for you? They sure do.

Yeah, I can see that. Look at this. Yeah. Look at this. So it's weird that we know you. Wow, guys. I can take the watch off while I'm wearing. I'll just wear it as a neck piece.

But you bring up Rolex, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got into collecting. I'm a collector of things. and I got swept up in like watch mania. I don't care what the face says. The model is an explorer too, and I fancy myself an explorer also.

So like the story and the watch found me, it helps me define or it keeps me in check, like the pocket watch I have on that has the Roosevelt coat comparison is the Thief of Joy on the back and Momentumory on the front. Oh, damn. If I think I'm drinking too much of my Kool-Aid, the front works to remind myself that I'm human and I'm going to die.

And if I get in a room where I feel like, oh, man, I don't feel like I belong. Well, comparisons to Thief of Joy, dude, you're good. Like, you're all right. And you'll see me on red carpets. Like, take this thing out. For real. You'll still have moments like that now in life. We all do.

As John Cena. No, no, no, but I'm saying as John Cena. You say we all do, but in my head, I go, but not as John Cena. Yeah. I think that's, like, Jenny and I mean that for real. So, again, I think that's the most difficult thing for people. people to conceptualize that like, I've been very lucky in life. I know I'm aware of that.

And I try every day to work hard to honor that luck. And also, I'm a human being. And when I stopped losing the gambit of emotions of insecurity, embarrassment, shame, guilt, excitement, happiness, joy, when some of those start falling by the wayside, you numb one, you numb them all. So, like, I feel all of that stuff. It doesn't matter who's on the post. doesn't matter what the bank account says,

doesn't matter the good days, the bad days, what's on my plate for dinner. Yeah. I feel all that stuff, because I'm human. And regardless of opportunities and lottery tickets and luck, you always feel that stuff. And I think we have this vision of people that, my bride and I say, it was like, must be nice.

You know, like, oh, look at that. Must be nice. I don't know, man, because every situation, even if you were born, gold spoon in your mouth, never have to know want from a financials, perspective. That comes with a whole list of issues that I don't understand. Yeah. The expectation is trying to

walk in the shoes of who got you that resource and luck. Keeping the gold spoon. Dog, I don't even know. It's something I don't know about. Making other gold spoons. Hey, damn. But I look up, I look a level up and be like, ah, it must be nice. They must have it easy. They have the resource to have freedom

a set of problems I don't know about. But that doesn't mean they're not human. You know what I'm saying? I just in my head never thought, John Sina, I guess we often take for granted that we're always living inside ourselves. Do you know what I mean? Oh, that's enough. We see life through this lens.

But I'm in myself. So I'm going like, doubt, okay, worry, concern. I see you. I've never looked at you and thought that ever, ever, ever in my life. I've never thought to myself, I'll be like, oh, this is a wise guy, smart guy, funny guy, caring guy. But I've never thought to myself, no, doubt, no, doubt. Because I'm not inside you. Yeah.

I mean, man, Hey, yo. Was he that guy screaming in my convertible? Hey, yo. Hey, yo. Your timing is amazing.

Your comedy timing is, yo, man. Truly like, yeah. Have you ever done any type of stand-up ever, like? No, I honestly, it's so odd how stand-up runs so parallel to pro wrestling. So, no. Hey, yay. Don't do that to us.

No, I'm serious. There's so many. parallels. First of all, even at the highest level, most of the time, they're very rare cases. You pay your own way. You book your own travel. You organize your own life. You are responsible for your own gear. The act is yours, right? Even though you're a part of this giant body. You're out there, usually with one other person in front of thousands of folks who are hecklers and enthusiastic, and they know they're part of the show, and you plan a routine in the back,

but you also have to be ready to tell that first joke to crickets. And when the crickets happen, you got to be like, change it up right now, do this. Or if you have a whole elaborate thing planned and you go out and you look at each other and people are going nuts, scratch the plan and do this. So, like, you have to be quick, you have to pivot,

you have to know your audience, you have to know timing. You guys are kind enough to say you have great comedic time, I just think it's timing because pro wrestling, sports entertainment is timing. It's not what you do. You have to do things at the right spot. If you've been in the guys who've been in the ring with me, I'm the loudest talker. If you're in the first six rows, you hear the match before the match. Oh, for real. I'm like, come hit me. Give me the DDT. Do the, and then I'll be like, we missed it. Wave it off. Don't do anything. Like I have never been as athletically skilled as the greatest talent in the ring. I'm always present and I'm always sensitive. to the energy of the audience. And I think that was something that allowed me to have such a long career. It's like it's not what I did.

It's doing it at the right time. When you were doing it? It's a sense of timing, yes. Because funny can come out of nowhere. Funny can come from timing. You could hear somebody say something, be like, I got something for that. Right, right, right.

You know when to land a joke. And you know also being out there, you know when the audience is like leaning forward interest. So, or maybe you know that like, oh, that didn't work. Yeah, I'm losing it. In real time.

And we're all gypsies. It's all road shows. Man, and it's a ton of town. Everything you're saying, in a weird way, I got goosebumps, and then I was just like, this is. You start small. It's surreal. You start working these POS places that are like underground clubs, but in wrestling,

it's like flea markets. I started performing in front of five people. Five. This is exactly. It's stand-up. I would have never said. The only other person who said this to me about their career like stand-up is a stripper. I would honestly

I would use that reference if the stripper was like a traveling stripper like one night in Dallas one night in Fourth Worth one night in Houston one night in New Orleans

because you know dude a lot of it is just living the road life if every set was at home oh my God you can walk home every day do you know what I literally said to Eugene earlier today no joke this is what I literally talked to Eugene about is I said

one of the things that has stuck with me for as long as I can remember in comedy is how many comedians were committing suicide around the time that I started on the road in the United States because in South Africa we had such a small comedy scene, we still have a small comedy scene, so you spend more time at home. I always thought of it as a downside. I was like, oh, I wish we had the road.

I came to the US, I was on the road, nobody knew me. It was literally what you're saying. You're just that small act going around, paying your own way, getting from one place to the next. The club owner puts you on its flyers and everything. And then I would just hear comedians in the back room or in the green room go, you hear about Tony, what I'm, oh yeah, shame. You hear about it would be an overdose.

And it was always like someone committing suicide or overdosing, always on the road, always by themselves. Hotel rooms. And it was, oh, yeah, it was always like that, that, that, that dingy, lonely hotel room where you go, man, this person has just been by themselves trying to do something for such a long period of time, experiencing glimpses of it because you see the audience but they're not there for you

they're there for the main headliner you just got to sample it and maybe they liked you maybe they didn't and you go home and it's quiet and then you do it again

it's not even home you go to like the red roof in or you know wherever micro hotel or wherever you can stay no room service we're talking like that level of where it was

yeah where you're trying to watch every dollar being like oh man I can split a room when we wrestle I'd split a room with six dudes you do microchel 79 bucks six guys in a room the first time I stayed in a nice hotel, like a decent hotel that had room service, there was food in the hallway.

And I remember someone had like a half-eaten burger. And I was just like, what is this? What is? And then I took it. I was like, this is. I've done that, but I was actually quite influenced when I did that. It wasn't the first time I saw food in the hallway. It was a time where I needed food.

I needed food because I knew the morning was going to be rough and I needed food. Gosh, there's a bigger story there. We got stuck in Ireland because there was a volcano and we couldn't get back to the states to perform raw. It was actually the first time they flew new guys in to do raw like rookies because we got stuck. And the last thing you want to do is leave us stuck someplace alone, idle with nothing to do. And boy, we had a great night and a friend of mine, Dylan, who is, who wrestled under the moniker Hornswoggle and a friend, another friend of mine, Christian Cage,

who was Christian in the WWE, Christian took Dylan to bed, Dylan was drunk, he had room service, and ended up throwing up on his hamburger. That hamburger, Christian put him to bed, tucked him in, he said, dude, I'm going to get the tray out, put the tray in the hallway. Flash forward to hours later,

I am heavily influenced. and food is closed and there are no options available. And I look and I'm like, that burger isn't even touched. I'm just going to bring that inside. I ate the thing. And then I come down to breakfast the next morning. And I'm like, oh, man, you guys cool? You dipped out early.

And like, no, no, he had some problems. I took him to bed. He puked on his hamburger. And I put in the hallway. I was like, what? Wait, what room are you in? He's like, you're on the third floor? And I ate the puke burger.

But it was, I needed it. I needed it. Oh, man. I needed it. You were like, this pepper and mushroom sauce. Matt, I have a feeling at that point, I didn't even know. Like, I heard the story in the morning and was like, no, yeah, that checks out. Did you tell them?

No, no, that's, it happened. The unraveling of the story happened in real time at breakfast. of like, yeah, you guys dipped out early I had to take him to bed and God, he puked all over the room and he puked all over the room and he puked and I put his room service out there I'm like, wait, what?

It's like a full burger and fries you're on the third floor? I ate the puk burger. So it wasn't the first time I saw food but in a moment of necessity. Yeah. Yeah, it's all nutrition. I sometimes wonder if those experiences

Yeah, that sunk in. Yeah. I'm just thinking about that. Yeah. But if you didn't know, though, it's not the worst. Yeah, well. It's the knowledge of it that makes it worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Otherwise, it's just like a Guinness-flavored burger. That's probably what I thought it was, especially for me. Yeah, that's probably what I thought it was. Yeah. What else is it going to be? I think I had the fries too, man. I don't know. Is there something that you have kept from your days of not having money that, like, just still

sticks with you? Being broke. Like, I'm never going back. Is like a fear that you have? Yes. So I've worked really hard to turn the fear into, I guess, a realistic approach. Okay. And I don't want to speak in absolutes, the term never going back. You know, it just means I need to be responsible and make responsible choices.

And that's the way I kind of move through space. Like life has awarded me all this opportunity. The worst thing I could do is piss it down the drain. So it's not that I don't live. I enjoy my life and I honor the luck and live the life. Yet every day I try to do so responsibly and make responsible decisions. I don't ever want to go back. And I enjoyed the time where I was living in my car.

I enjoyed the time when I was leveraged to the hilt on credit cards just to try to learn how to wrestle. So, you know, live in life at 21% interest. That was, it was a happy time and it was by choice. A lot of folks don't have that choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you chose to drive out. And that's when you were like at the gold's gym, you were living in the car.

Yeah, yeah. And again, I had safety back in West Newberry. My dad's like, you got to roof over you had any time you want. I'm like, no, man, I got to do this. I just, my parents grew up or I grew up with my parents and we had times of prosperity and then real hard times. You know, my dad's job was eliminated in the 80s. He was a real estate appraiser.

And that job became obsolete. He was absorbed by the banks. So he went to having a thriving business to having like no business overnight. And with five mouths to feed, five young mouths to feed, and his wife and himself, we started stretching every dollar. So, like, going from prosperity to knowing that, like, oh, there's, there is another side to this. We made it. Everything was fine.

I see what you mean. I see what you mean. But I just, I'm going to try my best to make consciously responsible choices relatively. And I'm super good with budget. My bride keeps me great with that. I try to keep track of everything. And a lot of that is from wrestling. You have to know the money coming in.

You have to arrange your own, you know, we perform in 50 states in foreign countries, you pay taxes and all that stuff. Like you learn, you get like financial lessons through street smarts. So a lot of that knowledge and wisdom has helped me over the years, but even still today, I try to not let go of like,

don't ever not be aware of what's going on. Don't ever not be aware of where every doctor. go on. Don't ever not be aware of the opportunities that are coming in, and by the way, it's going to end. So make sure you're prepared. And it's not a job

where you work 35 years and it's done. It could end with this interview. Like, everybody sees this interview and they're like, fuck that dude, and it lights out, it's done. You know what I'm saying? Eat what? Exactly.

Exactly. So it's a... Puk Burger Cina. I don't need him around my kids. I don't need him around my family. That is it. Done. So, I mean, that's...

It's a, I understand it's a fragile business. And I think, you know, but you know, here's one of the things that I often think is a gift for us. And I mean us as in people who don't work in an industry that is sort of seen as stable. I think one of the gifts is that we are able to acknowledge something that is actually true for everyone, but is just less apparent in other jobs. Because your dad was doing something that was stable. Very stable, very formal. Do you get on saying?

Overnight. I think of people who were working in factories when all of, of a sudden they automated. That was a stable job. I think of people now who are working, you know, like law firms on a junior level and then AI is going to come in. It was a stable job. I think of, like, that idea of stability is one that gets sold to us

and we make decisions in our lives and we believe, we truly believe this is stable, this is unstable. And I sometimes think the gift of being in an, what's seen as like an unstable job or environment is that you just are aware of the instability. Yeah. Whereas on the other side, It is just as, man, people lose their jobs.

In the recession, think how many jobs went away, whenever industry shift, when economies move. Yes. You know, Detroit loses its industry, goes out, and then it comes back, and then, like, life is unstable. It is, it is. And that's why I say, like, oh, I'm never going broke. That's not true because it's beyond my control. Right, right. But you're just saying, like, that's, like, the thing that sticks in your head.

And talking to a lot of, like, first-generation entrepreneurs, successful folks. Yeah. It's like we all struggle with that same thing. of like, I just got to get enough security. And anyone would be like, dude, you'll, you'll be the richest guy in the cemetery. Like, what's your problem? Like, let it go. So I am working hard to, like, let it go.

Okay, okay. But that's one thing that as soon as I got my first paycheck from WWE, I was like, don't fuck this up, save as much as you can, be responsible, enjoy. Invest in yourself, for sure. But, man, this is going to end and probably, quickly. You know, I had my eyes on like average lifespan for an athlete's three years. Yeah. Be good. I got lucky. You know what I'm saying? So I'm, I think time under tension has helped as well. But that's one thing that has just always been there. I always think we, you know,

you don't have these conversations all the time. The, the balance of being afraid of losing the thing and then also understanding what thing you should actually be afraid of losing. So So one thing I've come to learn over time from people who've grown up in privileged or connected worlds is they've taught me that the real value that you possess isn't necessarily in what you have. It's in the understandings you develop and it's in the connections that you make. So like I think of it this way, you know, funny enough, I just recently watched the, like a few months ago, watched the Hulk Hogan documentary. Yeah, yeah. It was like a phenomenal insight into this man in a way that, you know, few people will ever get for themselves or for others.

And I watched another one that was Mr. T. And again, and it's, you know, for me watching these childhood heroes and seeing their journeys. And one of the things I did enjoy in watching these stories was not seeing the moments where things went bad for them. So they went from like struggling to doing well, to doing great, to then doing well, to then not doing well. but seeing them having this second chance on the other side

because Mr. T will always be Mr. T. You can't take that away from him anymore. Hulk Hogan will always be Hulk Hogan, you know, rest in peace, but he would always be Hulk Hogan. You can't take that from him anymore. And I think that's one of the things that anyone who hasn't grown up with doesn't realize

is the real thing that separates us who, like, experienced nothing and then went to something and then to everything, versus somebody who sort of grew up with something and everything is they know that it can be done again and they know that, you know what I mean? The access is the real thing. Like John Cena will always be John Cena.

Even if you may not reach the highs that you've reached before or the lows, you will never be just that guy. And sometimes that gives me like a little moment to breathe where I go, okay, Trevor, breathe, take a vacation, spend more time with your friends, say no to that gig. Yeah. Because you will be able to make something out of something, even if it may not get you to the same levels

that you were before. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. Yeah. The best bets on yourself. Yeah. I think in most cases, we're talking about goals and what people aspire to.

I think sometimes those goals, that Ferrari, that fame, that wanting to have the money, is just a replacement for experience. Yes. So someone who has that thing will be like, that's not all that life is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they've experienced it. But also the fear sometimes goes away as we get experience. So if you know that you can always replicate the magic in one way or the other, I mean, you're the king of pivots. I look at you and I go, you've pivoted hard.

I mean, from going to wrestling to acting seamlessly. And even before that, rapping, do you know what I mean, bodybuilding? Yeah, you are the king of pivots actually. Yes. But that's all experience. And 19-year-old John Cena wouldn't have been told that. They wouldn't have been told that if they choose one thing and it doesn't work out, their life is over.

But over time, nearing 50, like, I've done so many things. I've managed to pivot so many times. I also think those are great points, by the way. And I also think there's a once you've done it, once you've built a startup, you know how fucking tough it is.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, it's not to say I won't, I mean, it's like going to the gym, the weight stay heavy and I keep going back. I don't know why. But I know that it's going to be. We don't go any, we don't even touch the door. You walk fast. Too heavy.

There's a gym. This is us. So please pick another example. Just make us understand. I think it's just knowing, knowing how steep the hill's going to be. Yeah. You know, and in thinking about my life and like, well, hey, what do you want each day to be like? Everybody always asks me, like, what's on your bucket list?

What are your next goals? I don't think of it that way. I just, I've really lensed out to be like, man, I just want to be like, man, I just want to to be useful today. Like, what's the best way I can be useful today? And if that is, my wife has been clamoring for us to get, like, out of the work mode and into vacation. Well, the best way I can be useful is to go somewhere that I've never seen before

and fuck off. I like, like, completely. And I think knowing that, okay, if I got knocked back to zero, I'd like to bet on myself. Right. I'm pretty sure I would survive. I would traverse the obstacle. I also wouldn't have the freedom to be like, well, how can I be the most useful today?

And the definition of it would change. Okay, we got to, again, build this thing. So we have the resources to look around and think in philosophical terms of like, how am I most useful today? Can I sit down with two guys and talk for an extended period of time about things that I never would have thought about when I'm struggling to pay the master's,

He always says this. Or keep the lights on. You know what I'm saying? Eugene always says this. It's so great. Yeah. I guess I just know how hard it is to get to that point of like food, shelter, rest, taking care of, then loving connection taking care of and a sense of purpose taking

care of. All right, now I can think deeper about things. And I really enjoy that pocket that I'm in. Yeah. And I kind of just want to, I want to just keep playing jazz as long as I can. You know what I'm saying? I just don't, I don't want to. But I do know what's going to.

alter and pivot and change and end. And I guess right now I'm just, I'm enjoying what I got and I want to try to just be useful. And I know that if I get knocked back, gosh, it's all right, here we go. The usefulness is the steep climb again. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. I think what makes me sad as I get older is how many people don't have the same disposition

as us. I think we look at the sunny side of life. We think to ourselves things are going to get better over time, one way or the other. I often look at people in the hospital. there was this book that I read of a lady who was working in palliative care, people who were just dying in a hospice. And she said, 10 out of 10, everyone who has asked, what would you want to be doing right now?

They would either say I want to be outside. And what do you regret not spending enough time with my friends and family? None of them said I missed my job. None of them said I missed my money or my house or my bed. All of them said, if I could get out of this bed and just feel the sun or the wind, or whatever whether it is on my face, on my body, on my skin and hear the laughter of my kids

or hear my friends telling that old story that they've been repeating over and over again, my life would be made. You know, and I think sometimes we've built these little comforts around ourselves, these little mansions that become little prisons for us not to go outside, not to see the sun, not to spend time with our friends.

And we were talking about this earlier on, you were saying, he actually makes an effort for all of his friends to find themselves in one room, even those that don't know each other. And we just end up chatting and talking and just hanging out and traveling. And I'm like, you are blessed enough to, you'll never miss that.

So the thing that realizes this is like, it's, it's, I don't know how to like, clearly articulate it, but fundamentally, I think about it as asking yourself the question over and over again because your situation constantly evolves. Does that make sense? It does.

And I think no one teaches us this. I wasn't taught this in life. I've never heard anyone teach it to me or to somebody around me in life. But basically I go, when you are hungry, your primary goal is to get something to eat. So you go, I need to get something to eat. I need to get something to eat. And you may become very good at looking for something, searching for something to eat. What we often forget, though, is when we get the something to eat, we're not really good at switching over to now.

eating mode. We're still in hungry mode. And so now we're eating, but we're hungry. And that's where someone sometimes would be like, hey, hey, slow down. And you're like, but I'm hungry. It's like, no, no, no, you were hungry. Now you're eating. And you want to try and slow that down so that you're eating now. You're not still in hungry mode. And then you find you eat and you finish. And then you're like, all right, what am I going to eat? And it's like, but you just ate. You don't even spend time being full now. And I think in life, we take for granted what that thing can do to us. Think about how many people. I was guilty of it. Many people I know are guilty of my friends. I'll play the game with all the time. I go, why did you start your job? Or why did you get into your career? Or why do you

want to earn money? They go like, oh, I want to do this. I want, I want, I want, so that I can. And then I go, but then when you got to that place, did you do it? And they go, no. Well, you know, I mean, I got the house and I, you know, I was lucky. I got married and I have the kids. And yeah, but, you know, now we got to get a big. And then I'm like, oh, but okay, okay, what happens when you get there. Well, then when we get there, I'll save and then I'll, so that I can spend more time with my family and friends. Okay, then you get there. And I go, now do you spend more time? I wish I could, but do you know how much this house costs? And you know, we got the second car. So, I mean, I can't just sit around it. So it's like, oh, but if you're not careful,

it's not that the one doesn't need to exist. It's, you have to remember what you're doing at each stage and you have to keep asking yourself the question, why did I want this? Am I there? Why did I want this? Am I there? Why did I want this? Am I there? And then you, that's where I think we find ourselves in the correct pockets. I mean, there's a ton of nuance there too.

So even the situational approach of like, man, my purpose is a provider. So if I have everything and we're safe, what the fuck am I providing? I need a bigger house. No, I got to do this. I got to go out and do this. Because I want to be a provider. Yeah. I want to be a parent.

A lot of my friends are having their empty nesters now and they're sending their kids off. And a few of them have like fractured sense of purpose because they're a parent. That's what they are. That's what they've been. And gosh, they've been damn good. That's two decades.

Think of that. Like I wrestle for 23 years. It took me five years to understand it was coming to an end fast, to plan the best way I could for the fans and the company to prosper on the way out. Yeah. And then to like change, like I'm, I wrestled. I'm, that doesn't define who I am.

That is a thing that I did. And in doing that gave me knowledge and wisdom and skills that I can better myself. If I get knocked back to zero, they can help me pivot. But I am not just a wrestler. So whenever he was like, oh, my God, you're a type. hiring, what are you going to do? I don't know. But I will wake up and be curious and I'll find something. Like, I will do something. I'd love to know where you got that from. Because, again, going back to the most recent example I can think of, the Hulk Hogan documentary, I watched

this man who was very open, you know, and so I'm not saying this from my opinion. He's talking about how he fell in love with the Hulk. He fell in love with what he represented, that can character. He fell in love with what it felt like in the streets. He fell in love with how he moved through rooms. And then his family would talk about when he was home. They felt like they were dealing with a shadow of the man. He would just be like quiet. And it was like Terry, is everything okay? And Terry just wasn't the same. But Hulk. I mean, he would, you know, and he couldn't resist the allure of coming back to the ring. And then, you know, like he goes for, you know, I don't of it was WWF back then and when it changes,

but then he goes to the other wrestling company and he goes and he tries it again. And people are like, you're old, man, let it go. And he's like, no, because that thing isn't just who you've become. It's also where you find yourself most useful. You know how to make the people cheer. You know how to make a room shake.

You know how to make people scream. You see those little kids in the front go, yeah, John Cid, and now you just leave that behind. And like when you were preparing, I'd love to know, when you were preparing for the leaving part, and when you were in your final wrestling matches and when you, were there moments where you doubted leaving? No, not once.

For real? Not once. Yeah, my biggest fear in that last year was getting hurt so I wouldn't make all the dates. And like just have to go out with like a whimper rather than the full final chapter. Yeah. You know, and it's odd because you can either be super conservative and do very little,

or you can leave them with the impression they had of you at your highest, which I still feel, you know, I retired at 49, so I still feel at 49 like there could be hints of me at 30. I can, if I prep enough and if I recover enough, I'm not doing, I was used to doing five shows a week. I'm doing, you know, we did 36 dates. That's it. So it gave me enough recovery time. It gave me enough prep time to show when the light was on, it was me. And that was such a clear indicator of like, oh, it is time to go.

Okay. Because you are barely hanging on. When you were a kid or when you were younger, 20s, 30s, even to late 30s, early 40s, you could wake up off a two-hour sleep, do morning media, talk people into the building at noon, get there. Help the merchandising department, talk to creative, plan your match, post show, drive to the next town, wake up and do it again. You can't ignore the data. That was the easiest, the most logical thing to like, it is time to go. But everybody's like, dude, you look great.

I feel great. Yeah. I'm still relatively strong. I can get in there and wave my hand in front of my face. But I don't ignore the data. Okay. Slower, older, more of a risk. younger talent that move faster and more daring.

The math isn't in my favor of like, this is a pretty janky road ahead. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. I'm talking like 30 days on, seven days off, 30 days on, seven days off, or less. And you're doing your own promotion. So you spend more time as the IP than you do as a human. This is why when you talk to Rick Flair, whom I love and respect, even on his doc, Richard Fleer is dead.

I'm Rick Flair. Hogan. Terry, he went away a while ago. Like, I'm Hulk. You can't help but become the environment you're in the most. Yeah. You know? So when it's supposed to be real, you got these guys who are trying to convince fans to come in the building and see them and they assume the role.

and it's really tough to shut the switch off. I think, gosh, it was a steep hill to climb for wrestling, but one of the best things they did is admit that it was entertainment. It is not pure sport. What part of your body has taken the biggest hits? When you feel your body in the morning, is it your shoulders, is your knees, is your, is there any part of your body where you were like... I was thinking of the hand.

I was like, yeah, because it's a bread and butter, that's a moneymaker dog. Now your face is... said to go with the hand now. I'm pretty good, man. Honestly, I'm pretty good. Hey, man, that's blessed. And now that I don't have to worry about preparing for those performances, I can spend a lot of time.

What was preparation? Walk us to be preparing for... It changes over the course of time. But give me like a general idea of like, how do you prepare for a wrestling match? So it went from literally just me doing a couple of jumps to the music hitting to running out there like a Tasmania devil. Oh, come on. For real, man.

Like, to really having a flexibility protocol that would start two hours before the performance. I'd have to maintain like a certain warmth and heart rate, you know, an hour in, just make sure you're always moving around and always stretching. I'd have to practice more, like the difficult things I knew I could do in my sleep, especially the strength-based stuff that I was known for. Because, like, oh, I could probably do that, but I'm not as strong as I used to be. So can we go just go run through that just to make sure I can catch you? So a lot more preparation in like at noon time when you get to the arena, which means you're falling down a little bit more.

I'm breaking a sweat at noon and then I got all day to cool down. Then I'm going to break a sweat again. And the post tons of ice, massage therapy, just making, gosh, even something as simple as like making sure you stay hydrated. Like not over-caffeinated. Like just little, little all the nuanced things that I never used to have to freak out. can worry about that all could play their part in like, oh, man, I just, my knees done, because I'm dehydrated. It's just a wide mistake.

Yeah. That's what the math tells you of like, dude, you feel good. And I've also seen it happen with a lot of my contemporaries. I'll get to a point where you get to the twilight of your career and you want to show the young performance. You still got it. So what you're going to do is you're going to go out and do something. stuff that you shouldn't be doing.

Okay. To try to set the example of like, yo, I can go. And it doesn't look crisp and you set yourself up for injury. So, you know, looking at the lessons that were put out before me and then just looking at the math, like, man, it is, it's time, it's time to go. And I love it. WWE is still like pulses through my heart. I'm putting on an event this, this winter with them called the John Cena Classic because I

want to still be involved. So what's the pivot, right? The pivot is event promotion. Take the IP that everybody knows and the core values that this IP, this human being stands for, and build an event around that with a goal to be like the Arnold Schwarzenegger classic.

Okay, got it. Okay, got it. That way, those young, able-bodied performers can do the falling down. And I can be like, these people are awesome. And we have our event and I show up and I'm still part of it.

That's the pivot. So I can still have my, I can still have the passion. I'm a fan first. I can still be a fan. I love that actually. Don't walk away from the business, but walk away from like, again, goals change too. I want to be, I want to be a WWE superstar. That's what I want the most.

Now I'm 50. I'm like, yo, I want to still do, I want to try to be a healthy mobile lifestyle at 80. And I don't control if I make it to 80. Yeah, but you want to be. And if I do, I still want those to be good year, good mobile years. So how is getting in a car wreck, you know, 52 times a year, the best way to keep that going on is probably not. So my perspective and goals change too. I always think about how amazing it is that wrestling has been on the journey that it's been in terms of like in the zeitgeist.

So like most young boys, I was watching wrestling my entire life. In your underwear? In my underwear? I'm asking. No, I wasn't watching in my underwear. But when Ultimate Warrior was a thing. There's a lot of folks that compete in their underwear. When Ultimate Warrior was a thing, I probably was like, okay, it's underwear time.

Okay. That was when, like, yeah, Ultimate Warrior was when I was like, that's when I really got into wrestling. And I would watch it when we could. Because we couldn't see it all the time in South Africa. Yeah, we couldn't. It would come on sporadically. You didn't have access to it. It was on a pay channel.

Yeah, it was on pay channels. Literally couldn't afford it. It was almost like law. Some matches I think I've seen, but kids just told me about them. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, like literally, they'll be like, and then, and then, and I'll be like, I've seen it. It's like, no, I haven't seen it. I actually didn't see it.

So I got into it at that stage. I grew up with it, you know, the whole journey is like the stone cold Steve Austin, that that whole era, you know, like the rock. The rock, even before that. Yeah, even before that, the heartbreak kid. Yeah. That whole era. Brett hit man, heart. Do you know what I'm?

Do you know what I'm? Yeah. And then. and then I remember this period where I was like well wrestling is fake and then like even remember the zeitguards of people being like wrestling is fake and no we don't like this thing

and it's fake and then it's interesting how wrestling has gone on this full journey where people are like no no no oh damn this is even more impressive oh yeah yeah they know what they're gonna do but people are athletes not actors yes because it's amazing how that's happened and then on top of that

there's been this almost intellectual like resurgents Not even a resurgent because it wasn't there before. It's almost been a birth. When I look at wrestlers and how people listen to you guys now and the things you guys say and the thing, forgive me for saying this,

but I thought you guys were all just like brawny jocks. And we loved it as kids, but in my head I never thought to myself that like Triple H would say something that makes me go like, damn, Hunter, that's a, oh, wow, I got to really listen to that, listening to Hulk Hogan with all his flaws and everything,

but still like the human, yeah, human behind it and then listening to you and what do you think or having seen that that journey and that trajectory is like did we always have the wrong idea of wrestlers and who you guys were behind the scenes or do you think you all changed in that journey as well?

I think it's more complex than that. I think as performers in a day and age where they sold it as a shoot or as real, these are real fights. the personalities had less time away from the personality. And keep in mind, in the globalization of wrestling when Vince McMahon took over in the early 80s, the schedule was arduous.

I'm talking like 30 days on, seven days off, 30 days on, seven days off, or less. And you're doing your own promotion. So you spend more time as the IP than you do as a human. This is why when you talk to Rick Flair, whom I love and respect, even on his doc, Richard Fleer is dead. I'm Rick Flair. Hogan. Terry, he went away a while ago.

Right. I'm Hulk. You can't help but become the environment you're in the most. Yeah. You know? I don't have thought of it that way. So when it's supposed to be real, you got these guys who are trying to convince, you know, fans to come in the building and see them, and they assume the role. and it's really tough to shut the switch off.

Yeah. I think it, gosh, it was a steep hill to climb for wrestling, but one of the best things they did is admit that it was entertainment. It is not pure sport because it was dishonest. Now we're honest. So that was mid-90s, tough hill to climb. Yeah. You got to re-correct.

You know, you got to rebrand. But the audience has always been rabid, whether they thought it was real or they know that they're coming to a show. Right. Wrestling has always been filmed, shot, consumed as the audience is just as important as the performance. Whether you know it or not. When you look at what we do, tons of crowd shots, crowds chant. They're literally like European football crowds.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we don't want them to shut up. We want them to keep being as rowdy as you can because if we perform to apathetic silence, it's really just kind of two guys in their underwear doing stunts. Sounds like a normal Saturday for you. Yeah. You know about that, right? I was too slow. You know what I'm talking about?

You know what I'm talking about? I was too slow. You were embroiled in the stories. You were engrossed. You loved me. You doubt all of my senses. Because I was like, yeah, man. Then he was like, yeah.

So I think it's... Drop kicked me in the chest. It was build as real. Yeah. It rebranded itself. And when you rebrand, it takes 10, 15 years to get over. Okay. Wow.

We got over. And I was happy to be involved in a lot of that rebranding process. Also, the product goes through phases. You catered to your audience. The 80s Hulk Hogan was a nationalist, virtual, you know, virtuous dude. Or like, say your prayers, eat your vitamins, you know, do good. And then Stone Cold Steve Austin, the raw era was drink beer, flip off your boss. We are programming to an 18-year-old male.

God it. Like, that's it. Right. And then more families start to show up around the time that I started. Oh, okay. So we switched to, literally, we changed the rating of the program to PG, which means some of the stuff we can't do. Yes. Blood is no longer a thing.

In South Africa, that's when grandmothers were watching and our aunts were watching. Yeah. On Sunday. Yeah, I never, but I didn't notice that it was so intentional. Well, here's a good thing about PG. You can ship it anywhere. A lot of countries won't take PG-13 or MA content. If they know it's PG, now we can go global.

That takes time. But after like 15 years of doing that, everybody's like, yeah, I watched the wrestling. And I will say the success of content creators. So, you know, 2008, people start posting on social media, the advent of Instagram and the success of YouTube. It used to be like, you're in movies or you were in television and you were actor. You played pure sport. You were an athlete. Wrestlers and none of that.

They're just carnies. Like, we used to be as carnie folk. Yeah. And then everybody started making content, and there became multiple lanes to success, multiple lanes to relevancy, to resource. So it's like, oh, man, these people have a voice and they have influence. WWE was on the cusp of all that. And our accounts, like our social accounts are off the charts. Our audience is super engaging.

You can't ignore the math. You can't ignore the data. It also became okay to be in the crowd for a wrestling match. It used to be like a thing of like, oh, I've seen it, but I don't watch that stuff. And now it's like, I'm going. You're right, it has changed. There are fathers and there are families that went when I was performing that now bring their families. And it's still relatively digestible for that type of audience.

Right, yeah. So we've just been around long enough after all these tectonic shifts and changes where people are like, no, no, it's fine, it's cool. And a lot of things happened in society to open doors for us. Like, dude, it's still so fucking tough to, like, get the baggage of being a carney worker off. Like, still. In what way shared? I can tell from a mile away if someone has no clue of what I do. That's fake, right?

Okay. That comment right there, it doesn't piss me off. It's literally, like, an indicator of someone's ignorance. With us as comedians, yeah. Oh, you don't understand. Yeah, with us, it's, they go like, oh it must be funny just talk shit for a living all day you don't understand

yeah yeah exactly what you know what I mean we're all we're all we all want to have you know like that's it's just that that that weight of trying to extend to conversations outside of your comfort I can only imagine that's where guys like DJ have like the rock sorry have just shattered the glass ceiling because you know him being the first guy

but then it's only like oh he's just the one everybody else Do you remember the first time somebody took you seriously? Do you remember the first time, obviously, maybe it wasn't one moment, but where just somebody was like, huh? So honestly, I think it's an ongoing process. And I think that moment of, huh, isn't taking me seriously. It's like, well, that's a surprise.

That's a pleasant surprise. Okay, okay. It's still, and it's a struggle like that's the hard thing that I don't mind doing. That's the how can I be useful today? I will spread the good word that these performers are able-bodied, athletic, they can speak publicly, there's no second takes, they're out there doing whatever they want, they travel the world, they're responsible for themselves, they know failure and embarrassment, like they also know elation and they know hard work. I can be a good ambassador to try to help melt that, those problems. And, of course, the connections we have being owned by TKO, which is owned by WME, having deals with ESPN, having deals with Netflix, just the... It's become more mainstream.

It's become more connected as well. Because you can't ignore the fucking math. Yeah, okay. Watch the program. That makes sense. Across the world, people watch and love what we do. And the fact that major corporations and major providers have been like, yeah, they watch it. So I'll put it on.

And the world has been like, oh, I'm no longer embarrassed to be a wrestling fan. Then this is great. And everybody else comes out and says, this is great. But it's, it's, I mean, we could do a whole show on like the complex nuances of how wrestling became comfortable. and it's still, we're still working. You know what I'm saying? We're still working towards it. It's, it's, I think they'll always, of course, we're not going to reach everybody.

There'll always be people who don't understand what we do just like this. All you do is talk shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And hopefully one at a time we can change some minds. I love this. Just like a journey, but what, what you've made me realize is these pivots are a lot closer to like tectonic shifts than they are to just, you know? The way, that's, that's one. That's one illumination you're giving me now.

Those diamonds aren't made overnight. Yeah, but it's really like, oh, man, it's this gradual shifting. It's like, oh, you see the continent now. I was like, no, no, no, no. That took a long time to get to wait. Yeah. And here's like my performing years are over. And I knew when I started.

I'm like, oh, man, it's going to be past my performing life that hopefully this is going to change. So it's you're working on a project. That you'll never get to. distilling 45-year-old whiskey when you're 40 years old. You're like, I may never taste this out of the bottle, out of the barrel. But like you still do the work. It's about the journey. It's not about the get.

But I think it's funny, I think in life, that is oftentimes when the most progress is made. And if we look at society, I think we're increasingly living in a society where people no longer wish to participate in any project that they may not yield the rewards of. Yeah, they're not planting trees which says they won't enjoy. There you go. I'm noticing that less and less. And I also understand some of it. It's because the pay it forward thing, you know, like, obviously, if you take it into, let's say, the economy,

people who can't afford to buy a house today because of how housing prices have ballooned versus incomes, etc. They go, then why should I participate in the next round? Or why should I? Or why should I? And it's so interesting how quickly that thing can break in society where somebody then goes, well, if I'm not going to be the wrestler, then why should I help you guys reform? the wrestling thing. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yet, you are literally part of the reason the young superstars in wrestling are a thing now is because you literally had to build something for them that you would not experience the full reward of. You get what I'm saying? I do. And folks before me did that and folks before that. Yeah, but that awareness is something that I think most of us do not have in life.

It's hard to have it. I would agree. And many times we see life through our own eyes. We don't think outside ourselves. And that's okay. If I have a young performer that says, I just want to go fucking gangbusters and be the most, I want to be a household name.

And they do it for selfish, sociopathic reasons. Let's turn it up to 11, okay? Becoming a household name helps, whether they're trying to do it for me or not. Oh, okay, I like this. Every household name we produce helps everybody. And whether their intentions are good or flawed, if the business can remain,

as long as we don't shut the lights out, every household name helps. I see why everyone goes, why aren't you going to have kids? Me? Yeah, I see it. You don't have kids? No. Whoa, man.

Came out the gate with the parent shame club. I'm sorry. Should I be ducking that? I'm just kidding. That's fine. Let's lean into that. Go ahead. Go ahead.

It comes on your mind. I'll take it back. I'll take it back. No, no, it's cool, man. It's okay. It's all right. I'm kidding. I can't tell you how many times I heard that, though.

You don't have kids? You don't have kids? Yeah, like, just like that. Yeah. Why? Tell us more. But you see, this is why I get it now. You'd make such a cool dad.

This is what you see. My sperm is never fertilized an egg. That's how I don't have kids. I love the science behind it. That's how I don't. His favorite topic, sperm. Yeah, look at him. Look at how excited you got him.

You want to hear him saying it more? Oh, boy. My ejaculate is... Look, look. Look at what you're doing to my friend. Sam the fallopians to get to the ovaries to get that one. That has not happened. That is the reason I don't have kids.

Oh, man. Yeah, but I get why. So I'm sure you know this. So at the risk of saying something you've heard a thousand times, maybe you haven't. I think it's because people will seldom bump into human beings who they, in an altruistic way, almost wish that they would make more human beings. Yes. Does that make sense?

So when I now understand, because that's something that's followed you for, like, I don't even know how many years. I've seen you answer that question so many times. No, I don't plan to have kids. And, you know, and that's even when I met my current wife, my first date that was. the conversation you guys had is just like... Which I think is important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before the fries, he was like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Hold on. Those look good, but wait. Just one second. Yeah. What's your stance on family? Hmm. Yeah. So, but I've never heard that question me asking.

But I can see why people go, but John, what? So... Because everyone wishes that they would have had a dad or everyone wishes that someone would have had a dad that is this nuanced, this thoughtful, this like caring, this. Do you understand what I'm saying? Goodness, I appreciate all that.

But then let's, so let's lean into that, right? Just because someone thinks I would be good at something, is that reason enough to do it? And it is not a commitment where if like four months in, I'm like, you know, this wasn't my thing. Offenages. I'm kind of. Those buildings are great for that.

I'm going to pivot. Those buildings were created for second thought. I'm just going to pivot. They were like, the fries? Let's try to truffle fries. Just take away the... I'll also lean into the second half of your comments. Like, those who envision, like, man, I wish I had a father figure like that or this person.

The time I've had to live life is how I've developed the wisdom. Right. Is how I've developed the nuance. It's because I'm here. I'm present. Like, when I'm here with you guys, my wife is curious and independent. Do we love each other and respect our space? She's doing something in New York.

Okay. And I have no fear in what she's doing and I have full trust in what she's doing. Which allows me to be here with you guys. Fully. To maybe learn something, to develop maybe another layer of the onion. Like it's the time without those commitments that have led me to be who I am. So if I did have those commitments, I wouldn't be who I am. It's all hypothetical.

Yes. Everything is a compromise. We just have to be willing to choose which compromise. which compromise we want to make. And the thing that makes this question so difficult is I'm on the wrong side of the math. Everybody has kids. Well, that's not necessarily true, but a majority of the folks do. They aspire to have a family.

So because I don't want to, I'm an oddball. Right. Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah. Like, well, I'm, I just want to choose to be over here in my lane in life. And I understand that that is not the majority. Yeah. So living in that small bracket, you got to answer.

a lot of questions. And that's okay, because it also makes me think about like, man, am I second guessing anything? And I'm not. I'm not. I'm still, like, so interested on what's out there. And gosh, I know, I know, I know what the commitment is. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And man, even, even, like, my dad was a great dad, raised five of us, worked his ass off yet me grown up, I wanted him to be somebody he wasn't. And like, I'm talking growing up, fuck that

to like 45 years old. I wanted my dad to be something he wasn't. And then at 46, I was like, man, maybe I'll just try to meet that son bitch where he's at. And now we have a much better relationship. Gosh, what a steep hill to climb for my old man. A 45-year commitment,

maybe looking for a good relationship with his son. And just because I'm over here thinking, and I want you to be somebody and you're not that person. And hoping that maybe one day it turns around and not knowing if it's going to or not and it's really not in your control. You know what I'm saying? I don't know, man. I just...

Yeah, yeah. But it's crazy. It's so refreshing to hear men speak about parenthood because obviously our gender sort of makes us fathers automatically. People never assume that you're looking at your capacity to be present. You're looking at... That's actually true. Am I emotionally capable of being very...

there for this person long term. Am I even interested in being there? Because everyone assumes that at a certain age, as a man, you can be a father. In fact, yeah, if I can expand on that, it's more than that. It's also that there isn't an expectation in a way. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. So it's like, if I'm hearing it, it's almost like people go with a woman, if she's like,

oh, I can't, then they're like, yeah, then you shouldn't do it if you'd. But guys, you're like, oh, but busy, they're like, you can be busy. You don't need to be around. You're just a dude, man. You just get the sperm and you're good. But you know what I mean? It's so interesting that you've said that whether it's society at large,

whether it's us, whether it's not, it feels like for a long time people have sort of gone, oh no, there is no emotional burden or there is no emotional expectation or very little on being a father. You just have to be a provider. And then you've done a good job. And here you are going, no, no, no.

I consider the emotional ramifications of this, not just for myself, but for the potential human being I may meet on the other side. and that's how I'm making the decision. And also, it's my life. Damn. You know, like, that's where this line of work is fragile. Yeah.

Because when you say, like, man, this is my go-round, and I'm choosing to go this direction, that might turn a lot of folks off. But again, I'll state my claim on, like, the fact that I've been able to absorb all of these moments without my attention being split or fractured has led me to be the man I am today which I look at the guy in the mirror

and he ain't perfect, tons of flaws, but I love that dude and I'm super at peace and I still want to do more and experience more. And I just, it's my life, that's a choice I made. Have you ever noticed how

people will question your decision to not partake in something with like a higher level of judgments but if you are on the opposite side of it and you regret it, then they'll be like, but why did you do it? You ever notice that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, yeah. For instance, if you go, I don't drink, people like, yeah, I don't mean you don't drink. You're like, yeah, I don't drink, I don't drink, I don't want to drink. Then people like, what? You don't drink.

Come on, man, just try the, come on. Man, you don't know what you mean? How are you going, but just one. Yeah, but then if you drink, and then after you go like, yeah, I drank, but I didn't, you know, in my life. And then people are like, you shouldn't have done it then. Shouldn't have done it.

Yeah. Yeah. There are many people who have kids who then say, I wish I didn't have kids. And then their kids or other people will judge them and go, well, then why did you do it? Why do you like, well, because you guys kept asking me why I don't have kids and I should have a kid and then I said, I don't want a kid. And then I had the kid. And then I had the kid. And then I had the kid.

And now you see what I'm saying? And what I love about your explanation about the relationship that you and your father had or that you wish you had until you are 45 is you didn't choose to make a human being to heal you. You became the father that you wish your dad was to yourself. You were present, you were driven, you were there, you did everything. You did everything. You didn't create a human and go, I'm going to, because a lot of guys do that. They sometimes want to heal the relationship that they never had with their fathers by having kids. Oh, my goodness.

Wow. Wow, man, that's goosebumps. Wow, that's, yeah. I did not do that. But, yeah, that is, wow, that hit me like a ton of bricks. That is a good one. That makes me think. Yeah.

Man, yeah, you're right. Wow. Well, I am glad that I finally met my dad where he's at. That's beautiful. And gosh, we're doing great. And I'm also okay on my stance. And I think making those tough choices that are against popular opinion, but deep down, you know it's the direction that you want to go in. So hard.

that's now I got to walk the talk. I got to live my life. I got to try every day to have joy in my life. I got to try every day to be useful. I got to keep my curiosity. So in saying no to one thing, I've got to commit to walk in the talk. So it does hold me accountable.

Not saying that I wouldn't be those things. Yeah, yeah, but I know what you mean. But like, hey, I'm saying no to this because I believe I can travel in this lane. Well, fucking, let's go. Let's go to work. You know what I mean? Yeah. Don't press anything.

We've got more, what now, after this? And I remember in 2010, we had a movie meeting in Houston about like this dog shit movie and the guys were like, I don't know if you're right for it. Like it... It was like, it was fucking dog shit. And the guys making the movie were like, I don't know if we can go with you.

They get up and leave. I look at Dan, I'm like, man, we're never making movies again, are we? And this is like my agent. He's supposed to be like, no, no, no. He's like, no, we're never making movies again. Straight up. Like, nah, dude, this. But hey, what he did was, feedback sandwich.

No, we're not. We are going to find another way. But I love that you and your dad had, I love that you had that in the life. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think for so many people, like with my mom, she had like a really tumultuous relationship with my grand. And in the last few years of my grand's life,

she was forced to live with my mom. and the best way I can put it is they fell in love with each other. That's great. Do you get what I'm saying? They do? They met each other where they were. They learned a different side. And my mom always says she's eternally grateful for those years because she goes, those were the years that were everything.

Like she goes, everything else almost doesn't matter. She goes, those were the years. That was their relationship. And all it kept me thinking was for all of us in life, as I go, man, I said this to you, I was like, I just hope for everyone out there. May your parents live long enough that they heal the wounds they inflicted upon you. That's all I,

just because a lot of the time, it's time. It is, it is, man. I mean, like I said, it was 45 when I realized, like, that's not fair to my dad.

Yeah. Fuck, what am I doing? We're all healthy. Yeah. We're all thriving. Like, he did a good job. But without time. You can't get to that.

And some folks never get there. Do you ever think about how, old you were when your dad, how old your dad was when you were that age? Do you ever think about, I think about that all the time and it blows my mind. Yeah, it freaks me out as well. So like my dad at 50 now? So how old was your dad when he had you? Oh my goodness. That had been 45 years ago. He's 82. So yeah, I mean, well, 30 something. Yeah, yeah, mid 30s. Mid 30s, mid 30s. I always find that that's often the time. It's the strangest thing. Yeah, about 30. Yeah. But it's the strangest thing that'll happen to us. And what were you doing? At 30, you had how many kids?

Yes. At 30, I was his second. Think about that. And yet a wife. Yes. And he was about to have another the next year, another two years after that, another two years after that. And at 30, what were you doing? At 30, I was riding a lightning bolt.

Isn't that crazy that you live in parallel lives? But that's what I'm saying. I always think that's one of the things that has helped me find grace. Yeah, yeah. Is to sometimes remind myself, I go, man, my mom had me when she was 20 what, which was normal then. but I'm like, wait, I even tell her when we hang out. I go, lady, forgive yourself for everything, because I'm like, I don't know what you were doing at 20. In fact, I don't even, I wish I could go back in time and as a child look at you and be like,

lady, you don't know what you're doing, relax. Let's figure it out together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I looked at you like you're supposed to know what you're doing, but I'm like at 20, relax. You know what I mean? You're kind of still fine. Herself. Exactly.

But with time, though, you can get to the place where you may meet them. It's just, man, to have the blessing of time. in a relationship is one of the things I wish everyone can experience. It's beautiful. And for me, it's like, I don't know, man, your life is just this, you know, I think about all of the things you've been lauded and applauded for. One of the biggest being, you know, holding the record for Make a Wish. And I won't lie, maybe it's like a fear thing in me.

Maybe it's like a, it's not like a selfishness. But I found myself wondering every time I'd read that, I'd go, how do you hold your heart through all of that. Because it's beautiful when you're going out to these kids and you're meeting them and you're making their day. But I can't imagine how many letters you've gotten afterwards when the kids have passed away. And how, like, do you know what I mean?

How do you hold those two things, the joy in elation that you bring and then also the tragedy that you're experiencing at a rate that few human beings in the world will ever experience? So I've talked about this a little. My piece in that puzzle is to, provide escape to provide a much needed day off for not only a child but a family that the math isn't on their side. They're the anomaly. You know, the life expectancy exists for a reason because

we've got a bunch of people and they live to be this, hey, you're supposed to make it to whatever it is now. Loss is tough for everybody. The toughest losses are like the ones where, y'all, you didn't get a fair shot. You know what I'm saying? If you're supposed to make it to 75, how you calling it quits at six. You know, like that's tough. My piece in that journey is to provide escape and to be a conduit for joy. And if I cannot do that, if I'm not able to fulfill those duties, walk away. I don't do much with Make a Wish outside of WWE because I believe that the environment

does not, is not the correct conduit for joy. Okay. Bring a kid to a movie set. Unless they're a movie junkie, of which I've done, we've put Make-A-Wish kids in movies. Those are long, boring days. Yeah. It's very patient.

Nothing really happens. We do things over and over and over again. And for a young person who probably has an awareness of time that most young people don't have. Damn. Not a good experience. Wow. But you bring them in to an arena.

at five o'clock when they skip the line and they get in a private room and everybody comes to say hi to them and like then we sit down and we kick it like hey I'm wearing this stuff you guys where are you guys sitting what's your signs say awesome you want to see anything out there tonight tips strategy and they'll be like oh man you do this do this and I plan the action so I can go back and do it and I know where they're at I'm like thanks and it doesn't it doesn't mess up the show I'm not going into business for one consumer, but it's a conduit for joy. So again, knowing the room,

I love the Make-O-Wish charity. I also don't do it a lot outside of WWE because it's not like, it's not the escape. It's more of a burden. You travel the families and then they get to a place and it's like, ah, this kind of wasn't what I thought. Even the most shy kids,

even the kids that are up against it who have just enough wherewithal, the travel, everybody gets a day off. Hmm. Of those, however many the number is, everyone gets a day off, everybody. And, and like, that's the thing. I don't, I don't do the thing selfishly just to keep doing it. No, I know what you mean.

This is not the environment for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to get him to the show, you know what I'm saying? And that's why kind of my chapter there is closing and it should be, Roman's turn. It should be Cody's turn. It should be Seth's turn. It should be Javon Evans' turn. It should be Bronn Breaker's turn. It's Charlotte Flair and Becky Lynch. They need to be the conduit for joy. And I think it's understanding what you're doing and also understanding that like, you know, just because I've helped promote this thing and some folks who use me as the face

of this thing, it's time to pass it on. Right. Very much like wrestling. I'm on the front of the poster, but like it's time to go. So being able to to be that conduit is just understanding what you're doing. And the experience, the wisdom, the lessons I've learned, I value every fucking second. I tell people I love that I love them. I don't protect the word. I tell people I don't protect it, but I don't waste it.

It's earned every time it's said, but I won't hold it back. If the moment is right and I realize, like, my God, I love this person. I love you. And just understand. that no one controls, like life expectancy is a thing. It's a statistic. But nobody controls me check out, dude. So like,

guarantee. Not at all. And I've seen, I've seen these families have so much joy. And like, what the fuck is my problem? You know what I'm saying? That doesn't mean blind optimism.

No, but yeah, that doesn't mean like true positive mental attitude. That means feeling all the fields. Yeah. But also, like, wow, all right, let's do what we can. Of course, correct. Let's get back in a good mind state if we can.

And also like, hey, man, we're all, we're all just rent, all of us. You know, I don't, I don't know if enough people look at that and process that. Like we, every one of us is going back to the ground. You know what I mean? We're all just renting. We are. Yeah. We are.

And the gets, the Ferraris, the houses, is not. yours, you're just taking care of it to the next person. That's it. Literally, this is going to find its way to somebody. My suits went to a thrift store. I donate suits when I don't wear them. I donate suits. Some lady were like, I found 10 John Cena waistcoats. Yeah, those are mine. Because they're just going on. Who wears your size? I don't know, but they can make a couch out of it. This would be nice. Nice. Love seat, maybe. Are there things that you don't get from acting that you miss from wrestling? There's nothing like WWE.

Yeah. There's nothing like it. I guess that's the thing. Like I struggled. I got kind of like run out of the movie business. And then my goodness, you want to talk about being lucky? I got a second chance. Right.

It's just a different thing. And when I was in my 20s, because of a business model decision, It's like, hey, you're going to Australia to do this movie. Why? Because we're open in our own studio. And if we make you guys movie stars, more people will come to the arenas. Yeah. More people of the arenas.

That sounds fucking dope. Let's go do this movie. What do you mean? I have to wait around for eight hours. What do you mean? It's that we can't do this. We can't just shoot this 85 pages now. And I can go back to doing the thing.

I wanted to, fuck, I was 20 performing in front of crowds being athletic. Like, I came from football. So it's like, man, this is. I know football never was going to work out for me. But like, this is it. Like, this is what I want to do. I'm doing this other stuff. So what I want to do can be better.

And a lot of times, you know, you do ancillary things to build the thing. But my heart wasn't in it. And then as I kind of looked at what I was doing, I mean, I played the same character on television with WWE for 20 years. Yeah. Wow. And then somebody comes along and be like, hey, we'll give you the versatility to create something. You just need to have a better mindset on those patient days. You know, of course, then I was in my late 30s.

You get a little wiser, take your foot off the throttle a little bit. Appreciate the process. Appreciate that every job is important. Yeah. It gives me a newfound respect for making film. And now I'm as passionate about it. And that was the breaking point of like, hey, man, put the effort you put into WWE into this and just see where it takes you. But don't complain if it doesn't work if you're not doing the same.

Because you busted your ass in the gym and it got you to WWW. And you took the effort and put the same amount of effort in the WWE. And man, you've navigated some waters. Let's put the same thing into this. Just fucking leave it all out there. And you're going to have some good ones and you're going to have some bad ones. And eventually it's going to be over. But at least you know when you look back on it.

I look back on that first chapter. Yeah. My heart wasn't at it. And I got run out of town for it. Okay. I did a lot of bad movies. Right. Because I wanted to be elsewhere.

It's like doing an interview with you guys trying to get information out of me. And I'm like, what the fuck? It's tough. It's tough when you have a guess it's a dead stick. Yeah, you know? I'm putting everything I got. I'm giving you guys everything I got. I'm trying to engage.

I'm trying to be present. I want this time with us together. At the very least, if nobody fucking watches it, to be productive for us. That's what we always say. You know what I'm saying? If the camera's on rolling, you still got to be like, man, did we have a good time or did we not have a good time?

Otherwise, what are we doing? And I believe that people are attracted to, oh, man, that seems like a fun time. You're not wrong. So when I have that confidence, that that's where all like this shit came from, just having a good time. And then when I take that effort, that confidence into another avenue, we have ourselves a pivot. But it, that's people think it like, and then you pivot it to movies. No, that was 10 years of failure. Fucking failure doing movies that nobody watched to the point where I couldn't even walk on red carpets to be, who the fuck are you?

Or like get auditions. No one would talk to me. Damn. And then my, my, it's not my manager and my agent. He's like my business better half. Like we are yin and yang in the same thing. He's right outside. And I remember in 2010, we had a movie meeting in Houston about like this dog shit movie.

And the guys were like, I don't know if you're right for it. Like it, it was like, it was fucking dog shit. And the guys making the movie were like, I don't know if we can go with you. They get up and leave. I look at Dan, I'm like, man, we're never making movies again, are we? And this is like my agent. He's supposed to be like, no, no, no.

He's like, no, we're never making movies again. Straight up. Like, nah, do this. But hey, what he did was feedback sandwich. No, we're not. We are going to find another way. So I read the news. I hosted live shows.

I just stayed polishing my skills. I took feedback. Well, what got us here? Why have we done this? Yeah. Dude, your fucking heart's not in it. And you're not as serious about it. And I hear you talk ad nauseum about WWE.

Those folks that are successful on that Hollywood side, they talk ad nauseum about Hollywood. Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that. Comics. There's this YouTuber, I guess, or I don't know which platform he's on, but either way, is a content creator. And really fantastic, what he does is he does these press junkets. Where you know, you know where they go and interview you guys for the movies.

And, you know, I'm sure you've done that a million. of them. You sit there. There you go. And people ask you the same question. They ask, it's everything about the movie as well. And your character and your this and your that and you're that. And it's so nice to see people who are thinking of new ways to do this. What he does is he takes a movie and he basically breaks it down into its color palette, if that makes sense. So like every scene in the movie, he cuts into a slice and it becomes like a barcode of color. And then what he does to actors and directors is when they're on the press tour, he goes like, Yo, let's do a, like, a quick, a quiz.

I'm going to pull this color palette up, and I'll give you, like, three movies that you've been in or that are big or whatever. You tell me what movie you think it is. What I'm talking about, imagine I showed you a barcode. Yeah. That was like blues and greens with a little bit of red here, but like thousands of lines, like brr-r-and-to-your-and-to-your-point.

You should see the difference between the actors and the directors, but, like, some of the actors would just be like, oh, yeah, that could be. I saw one the other day, of Tom Cruise, he was like, you see the thing you're talking about? I was like, yo, this guy likes his movies, man. He likes making movies.

He likes, he was like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, eyes wide shut. Yeah, yeah, the scene, that, the purple. And he, and I'm watching him, watching that. I was like, oh, he loves it. Yeah, but that's why the, that's why the Mission Impossible is what it is. And that's why the top gun is what it is. And that's why.

That's why he's had a 50 year career. Yeah, that's, but it's exactly what you just said. some people go I want to be famous then they choose the shortcut to fame which is acting or whatever some of them are successful some are not

but then the ones that are really successful in any field whether it's fame business whatever it may be we take for granted what you just said their eyes light up at the opportunity

to wax lyrical about the thing you should have seen his eyes and I agree with you I think that's in any discipline yeah yeah it really is talk to comics

they're about it, especially as soon as you get higher tier, higher you go. We're obsessed with it. Yeah. We're obsessed. That obsession and joy, you know. Artists, like, and that's just, it's not even creative. Financial management. Oh, yeah, yeah.

You know, a restaurant scene, hospitality business. Like, man, car builders. I know some custom, it's anybody. What cars do you have, by the way? You said you're a car collector. What do you? I have a varied amount of stuff that is a, it's a color code, right? It's a barcode.

Okay, what's your favorite? Just give me a favorite. So that's a two-part question. My current daily driver is a 2025 Civic Type R. I'm going to wait for the 2027. I did not expect that answer. I have been lucky enough to be the voice of Honda now for, gosh, it's got to be six years. But I knew about every model they had.

And I remember when I signed with them, they're like, we're going to give you a car. What do you want? You want the Accura NSX? I'm like, no, I want to drive a Honda. I want a boost blue type R, and I want the carbon fiber kit. And they're like, how do you know about these options? I'm like, you pick the right guy. So I'm on my second type R.

I'm going to hopefully switch it when the 2027s come out because they got some new mods that I like. The reason I like it is it's a true 5C car. It's a hatchback. It's my ride to the airport and everywhere else. I know it will start because a lot of the other stuff that I have is beautiful. Not necessarily reliable, but it's still beautiful. Jay Leno spends most of his time on the side of the side of the,

the road. In the shop, yeah. On the side of the road, fixing is one thing. Stuck. Jay Leno spends most of his time on the side of the road. He's got like a personal toe guy. Yeah. That's how often his car. And he has some eclectic stuff that is just real tough to make reliable. Yeah, yeah, no, you can't. My favorite car, I still have the first car every bought with my own money. What is that? It's a 1989 Jeep Wrangler. And I bought it at Santa Monica Motors 2 on Santa Monica Boulevard. I traded in the car that I used to live in, my Lincoln Continental, which was like half gift for my dad, half money from me. The first car I ever bought outright was this Jeep.

It had 65,000 miles on it. And I was like, man, if I can just get like 10,000 miles on it, I'd be fine. And I still have it. It's got 185,000 miles on it. It lives a nice, comfortable, retired life up in Massachusetts. It only comes out on sunny days. But it is like fully restored, but not the exterior. I still have all the sun patina.

all the rust, but if you look underneath, it is like brand new because I want it to run. I don't want to be stuck. And I can never sell it. Like I can never sell it. I can get another 89 Wrangler, but I can't ever get that one. And like that was the first thing I did when I was like, man, you're a paid professional wrestler and you're about to move to Kentucky. You need a car.

I'm buying this cheap. So that was the first car I bought my own money. I love that that car is in some ways a metaphor of you. Like, you go. the car, I just want to get 10,000 miles out of it. Wrestling, you're like, I just want to get three years out of it. And then now you're like, oh, you know, I'm going to have this long run and look what it's done for me. But, hey, I want to treat it easy.

I'm not going to drive it every day now. Yeah. I want it to live a long, healthy life. I'll bring it out on Sundays. I got to keep the knees healthy. Maybe a through line there is just it's all enjoyable, man. Like, I still enjoy. It's a deep appreciation that you seem to have.

It's just like a, do you always have this or did something happen in your life that switched things up? So I feel in. a doing reflection that I've always been lustful for life. Even decisions of like, man, I'm going to not get my ass kicked. Not by learning how to fight and beat the shit out of people. Yeah. But body lifting weights. So people just won't bother me anymore.

You're talking about being bullied. Yeah. And I can still dress from dressing crazy. Do you still remember your bully by the way? Because I remember my bully. So I'm always in, you don't remember your, were you bullied, first of all. No, I don't know if you were or weren't. Maybe you were the bully.

It's happening now. Oh, man. Don't be like that. That's the two bliss. You saw me, I was like, brother, let's get out of here. I just find it fascinating that, like,

everyone remembers their bully. Show me, the old already touched you. I'm yet, I'm yet, I'm yet to remember. I'm yet, I'm yet to meet a person. Who doesn't remember?

Who doesn't remember their bully? I'm talking about, like, super A-list movie stars. I'm talking about presidents, musicians, CEOs, I don't care who you are in life and what you've done.

A father, you're a father of seven, you're a grandfather, and I go, who bullied you? And then they'd be like, James D. It's like,

you remember your bully? Of course I do. And I'm so grateful for him because again, right, harkening back to the kids' decision, it's tough, you're going to piss off a lot of people. I pissed off a lot of people

with the way I dressed. It just didn't fit. And the music I listened to, the way I styled my hair. I was like, this was rap music in the late 80s, early 90s. Dude, high top fades, rayon, polka dots,

airbrushed overalls, starter jerseys, worn backwards. Like, Not just Massachusetts, West Newbury, Massachusetts. The town population is 1,100 people. Oh, goodness. And it was 100% white. Some would even say you're asking for it.

Some would say, especially those people who took advantage to that situation. I know, I know. So I'm faced for the choice. Life is going to be tough if I keep doing this. Yeah. But this is really who I am. I'll get through the tough. Huh.

I don't want to, I don't want to just conform. I want to be who I am. am. I want to live life my way. Okay, how can I, how can I traverse the waters? Maybe if I beef myself up, people will stop fucking with me. Because the last thing you want to do, you get into a room, you're like, I don't want to mess with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do I think I can take him? No. 50-50 shot, I'm not going to give him, you know, that's a easy way to do that. So I, even making that decision, a decision to go to boarding school, where and why I went to college, changing my major.

Like, there's a string of decisions that maybe at the time, from 12 to 15 to 19 to 24 to 30, like, I didn't know that life is the greatest gift. Hmm. But I did because my decisions indicate that. You know, like... It's like you didn't know it, but you felt it.

Like, the spidey sense of, like, this is opportunity. Go. You know, like, I don't know what's going to happen, but go. Go for it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all that's, I, I don't, I'm not perfect in my batting average, but I think I got, I think I got more, more awareness than failure of awareness. You know, and again, a lot of that is just being able to be, be able to pivot, be able to have that freedom of like, man, I don't, I don't have a lot of other responsibilities.

This thing comes up. You want me to go where? What, now? Sure, let's go. Like, I've always been, let's, let's fucking go. this might be something. So now I'm truly grateful for life. Like it is the best gift. Somebody asked me today about the make-a-wish thing. Like, what's the record you want to break?

I said life expectancy. I want as many days as I can get. Because it's beautiful. I don't want this to end. You know, and it will, and that's okay. But I have that appreciation. I think I've always had it. I just couldn't put it into words.

My actions defined that like, yo, this dude is going for life. He's going at it. And the decisions weren't always going to get me from not being broke. Like, no kidding, dude, I was happy. I was living a happy life where I was sleeping in my car. Like I had joy in my life. Right, right, right.

And again, by choice, here's a tough thing. Do you want the easy road, conform with the bullies, or go back home, or do you want the tough route? I think I've always been okay to be like, there might be potential in a tougher route. I think I'm going to take that. You know? Yeah, it's the more rewarding. path, right? The path less traveled. You discover something new, you find yourself. But it's also really tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I always think that that is the risk and the reward of it.

It's similar to reflecting on self. A lot of folks ain't ready for it, man. A lot of folks can't be like, man, this is where I really messed up in life, or like these are the things I could change about myself, or maybe I got to work on this, or these are my strengths, or what am I even doing, or what's my purpose, what are my core values? Any of that, reflection, is great and it sounds good in a Instagram post or like something, but it's also very difficult. It's very difficult to do. But the reward, man, the reward is like the yield is, you can't calculate it

because you don't know what's possible after you're willing to course correct, figure out who you really are, be honest with yourself and what you want. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that honesty is tough though. But the yield, man, like the yield of facing, parent shaming and being like, no, it's cool, it's all right. And, but like, you're going to, not you because you were joking, but someone who genuinely

was like, I don't, your mind will change when you have kids. That interaction is going to last five minutes. They're going to go away and I'm left with my life. And I'm still, after that interaction, I'm like, hmm, good pitch, but I'm still in the, I'm in the place around that. We forget that, though. I think as humans, we forget that. We forget how often the interaction.

for them was less than a snippet and we're going to go off and live our lives. We make it seem like when they leave, they're going to be off somewhere being like, honey, are you okay? I can't sleep. I don't know if John Cine is going to have a kiss or not. I can't sleep. Well, here's another difficult thing. And that's why, like, being in the creative space is so fragile. Because if someone comes up and says, you don't get it, you'll change your mind when you have kids. And I politely say, okay, thank you for the perspective. they could walk away being like, John Cena's an asshole.

And that might be the only five minutes I get with him. Maybe it's less than five minutes, maybe it's 90 seconds. Yeah. You know, and because I see this person, oh, there's the guy or there's the person, I would like to interact with that person. You have no clue what they're going through. You have no clue what's on their plate for the day.

You have no clue what just happened to them. And on top of that, my interaction with that person is going to formulate an opinion about that person, not their creative work, It's going to correlate. It's going to get all lumped into one thing. So, man, the patience are moving through space with kindness and empathy is something I've really worked on. Because one human being at a time is the ability for me to hopefully keep playing dress-up for a living.

And it also helps course correct my nihilism. It makes me grateful for life. Like a lot of that stuff. Like, but again, one bad interaction. And nowadays, there's folks who, like, prey off of the bad interactions. Yeah, now some people have turned it. Obviously, because of social media, they try and engineer a bad interaction. They try and fabricate it.

They try and create a thing that think. But we had a, again, it's so funny you're saying these things. We often bump into, it's almost like an energy. But I said to Eugene the other day, one of the things that gave me peace was understanding that I did not get to where I was from one into action. and so no one could take it away in one interaction. You're right. And I think that's an important thing for everyone to remember. It doesn't matter where you are, how you work.

It's like, no, no, no. Don't minimize your successes to one thing because they weren't. So don't let one person threaten to take them all away from you. You're very right. And that you're correct. Paul Heyman had a very nice quote in his Hall of Fame speech. I've been canceled 10 times and I got up 11. like you're right

no one thing can define the totality depending within moral within moral code also just understanding that hey man when I leave the house I become a

an interactive piece for people oh damn no that's no but it's true it's just saying the fact that you're articulating it and I'm not perfect but I'm I've gotten I'm better than I was yesterday

and like I said It helps me with empathy. It helps me with kindness. If someone comes up and is disrespectful, when they walk away, I'm like, man, I don't know what kind of day they have. Wait, people can be disrespectful to you? So, see, that blows my mind again. In my, maybe again, it's because my, my,

I still have my wrestling child brain. I do not perceive, I cannot think of a person coming up to John Cena and being disrespectful. So, like in my brain, I just can't think of that. There are a lot of folks who be like, man, I can't, I can't see John Cena being disrespectful to someone. And if I have been, it certainly was. intentional unless I believe respect is a boomerang. If you throw none out there, you'll get none back.

But there might be a chance where like, I'm going to a flight, I'm going to a flight and I got to make it. Or I'm going from A to B. Like, yo, dude, if you want to walk in there or whatever, or I just don't have time. Ah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, fuck this, this fucking guy.

Yeah. You know? Well, I think it's because a lot of the time people, you know what really helped me was my youngest brother. He's wise beyond his year, 20 years younger than me. He always dropped, he just like throw a job. into my life, like a lightning bolt of a gem. One day he said to me, because he would experience this with me, you know, and then one day

he said, you know, bro, one of the things we should never take for granted is that you are the highlights of their day and they don't understand that they're not the highlights of yours and not in a shit way. He's just going like, to them, it's like, oh my God, you just walked into, you walked into a supermarket in your head. In their head, for some person, they're going like, Trevor, no, I just walked into a supermarket. And you're like, no, I just walked into, I need to grab this. I'm grabbing a Band-Aid.

The fingers cut. They're like, well, what do you do? You want to grab yourself? I'm like, my fingers bleed. Yeah, can I get a selfie? Wait, my finger, I'm bleeding. I'm bleeding. They're like, I don't mind.

Can we get a selfie? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to die. Okay, can we get the selfie first? Okay, look, man. And then you realize, oh, it's just two people seeing a completely different reality in the same space. Which is common in a lot of interactions. Yeah.

And again, like, increase that empathy knob. little bit. Huh. You know what I'm saying? I like this. Yeah, it's no one, very few, very few people are malicious. Yeah, that's true. And they're just trying to do the best they can with managing their emotions and like

seeing something they, is unique. Yeah. Surprise. There are a few, like I said, you throw no respect out, you'll get no respect back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I will be stern. But that's, that has nothing to do with me thinking I'm above anyone. Respect is a core value of mine.

And if we can't relate as huge. humans and if I can see that like you're not in the business of trying to manage your emotions, you're just being a dick, well, I will close off some walls. And you can, you can inch your way back in with a little bit of diplomacy. But like, man, you can't, you can't treat a human being like that. And that's, those are very rare cases. Most times when I say, like, people will be disrespectful to me. It's how I want to be treated. Well, who the fuck knows how I want to be treated? You know, Like I really prefer people coming up and saying hello Because that's human, human contact

I love that stuff But it's more like, yo, can I get a picture? It's can I get a picture? Well, I already you've taken it, yeah, yeah. So I don't have a say in the matter. Yeah, yeah. But also I understand that they're probably just, I didn't want to bother you.

I just turned on taking a few seconds. I got like, or like people shooting video from you from a long lens to be like, I just didn't want to interrupt you. Yeah. Okay, I get that. I kind of feel like a, an exhibit, but I also understand where you're coming from.

Yeah. You know, so like, I don't know, very few people are like outright malicious. It's a nice way to live life, man. It's a nice way to. It's, bro, very few people out there like, I'm going to wake up today and fuck that guy over. Like, think of how many times you woke up and said that. Yeah. You at home watching this.

Think of how many times you said that. And there probably been a few days, right? There's probably been a few days. But it's not a lasting thing. Yeah, that's not who you are. It's not a lasting thing. So I'd like to believe that humanity by and large is not malicious. I'm not saying that there's not...

No, no. The math, the majority of the folks are just trying to do the best they can and live a good life for them and theirs. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I get it. You know what makes this hand crazy is I get to watch my friend through you. There's so many things that you guys spoke about that I see in him and I try to explain to him and he's like, oh, man, I don't understand.

The sunny disposition that he has, there's so many times where emotionally has rescued me from situations where I was like, there's no end to this thing. And he's like, let's keep going. And I keep saying to him, whenever we're hanging out, how did you know this thing was going to work? It's the same thing that you have, this intuition, this heightened sense of intuition that you have to say, if this keeps going somewhere around the corner, there's a good result for all of us. And also the empathy that you show to people that love you and love your work, absolutely. in action and I'm like, no one is out there to try and ruin your day. And you always give

people a chance to just express themselves and you forgive them for their transgression sometimes of seeming rude. But you just move on with your life and you never let that slice of action just to ruin your own day. But you try. It's so weird to see how you guys express the same emotions and sympathy to people. When did you start with all this? How long have you been in this? So it's here. It has now been 22 years. I think time. is a good, you talked about time with relationships. So now let's, let's widen it and just not regulate it to relationships. I think time gives you that perspective on life, especially if you're open-minded and curious.

If you are set in your ways, man, I go back to West Newbury and there's still the same folks sitting at the same seats and they've aged, but they haven't aged here. I believe 20 years in the creative space and the creative business is enough time for you to have thoughts and be like, man, I, yeah, this is good. I should be all right. And also develop perspectives of like, it's not all I am. It's not all that defines me. But like that's, I like hear that because I think you've had the time under tension that it takes to think of greater things. Time under tension.

I love that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Think of greater things. You're not focused on like, man, I got to do this set, which you, yes, when I go out to do a match or when I go to a scene. Yeah, that's when the focus happens. Sure. But then afterwards, you can think about a larger thing.

You can reflect on all the years. So where do we find you now in life? Like if we talk about these stages and we talk about these cycles, you know. So by the calendar, I'm at the half century mark. Okay. So that's pretty crazy, right? Half century. What are you doing for your 50th, by the way?

So I've thought about it. The people I love in my life are very fragmented. And to try to hurt all the cats and get them all together in one space is very selfish. It's just my wife and I, and life has been very lucky to us. So I think instead of on a day to be like, all right, it's the birthday, let's go. I think for my 50th year on the planet, I want to actively make trips to the people I love. Look at this guy.

And spend some time in an environment that they feel most comfortable. Look at this guy. It's like intuition. And just enjoy the company of those folks. And I'm not going to 100 places. It'll be a, I got a. small core group, but it's, I would say it's like eight folks. And that's the initial idea of like, well, what do I really want to do? I want to, I love connecting and spending time with people

I love. And dude, I will lean, you have learned, I will lean into some fucking conversation. Oh, no, that's, I mean, that's what, I love bouncing, bouncing these ideas around. And all the people I love, they're not yes people. They all challenge me. They all call me out of my bullshit. We're all focused on growth and being better than we were yesterday in our own different lanes. We're not carbon copies of each other. Not everybody who's like a muscle-bound dumb-ass jock. Like the X-Men, we got people with different talents. So I really think spending a year with intent to connect with people I love

is probably a good way to celebrate a half a century on the rock. You know what I always love about moments like this? Because that's beautiful. But I always love, just my comedy brain goes, there's like one friend who's like, honey, isn't it, isn't it John's 50th? It's like, yeah, yeah, it is. Oh, my God, I wonder what he's going to, One of these got planned.

I mean, it's John. So we're probably, he's probably going to invite us somewhere amazing. We're all going to go. I mean, we're going to be on a trip out of this world. It's going to be. Hey, uh,

happy birthday. You got mac and cheese for dinner? You bring your old Jeep? Can I? You got an extra seat? You don't? I'll sit on the ironing board. Is that okay?

Is that good? Are you good? No, we're not good. I'm going to, surprise. I'm going to show them. I brought beers.

Man, John, this has been amazing, man. Thank you. Dude, it's great to see you again. It's great to meet you. Truly amazing. Man, when, so we have a past relationship of conversation, which means we can kind of get into some minutia. You jumped right in and like with bold topics and beautiful thoughts, man. It's very insightful stuff.

So to be able to sit down with essentially, we've known each other a little bit. Yeah. And somebody new. And to be able to spend two hours of life like, oh, man, I got some takeaways from this. And I'm going to walk out of the room better than me. when I walked in. That's two hours. Thank you.

Two hours. More than the same. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And happy birthday. Thank you.

Happy birthday. I still got some time. Yeah, no, but happy birthday. When is it? You're going to give it to you ahead of time. April 23rd. Happy birthday. I got to start planning now if I'm going to make this thing happen.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm crossing my fingers. I hope that's where we get. You deserve every single year of those 50 years. Okay, so check this out, right? What a way to end. I've eliminated the word deserve from my vocabulary. Say more.

I have replaced it with the word earn. Because if I say, well, I deserve that. That means I feel as if it's entitled to me. I have to say, I earn that. And I have to be accountable for the earn. A lot of folks will use that word deserve. And it becomes a slippery slope. So it's amazing.

That's like the last piece of conversation that we have. And that's the word that you've been pondering for. I have eliminated the word. deserve and replace it with the word earn because it makes you accountable. It makes you question. Like, yo, man, I deserve that car. Switch to the word. Yeah. I earned that car. Fair play. Huh. I deserve happiness. No, I've earned happiness. I've earned happiness. Fair play. Like, I don't, it's weird. Like, I heard that. I'm like, I don't use it. But when you say it, I immediately just hear the word earned. And for you to be like, you've earned the right to spend a year

kicking it with friends. Fuck yeah, I feel comfortable saying that. I've earned that. I'll leave you with that one to think about. No, absolutely. You've earned it. Replace, deserve, with earned. Yeah, you've earned.

Because it makes you accountable for what's going. Love it. Damn. Love it. John Cena, everybody. That's it. It's a catchy tune. That's a catchy tune.

This was dope, man. This was too dope. Thank you. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sir X-M. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaziamin, and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown.

Random Other Stuff by Ryan Padduf. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.