What Now? with Trevor Noah - John Oliver: Why Everything is a Scam: FIFA, Mergers, & Information Literacy

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

John Oliver, professional shit-stirrer and host of the award winning "Last Week Tonight", sits down with Trevor and Eugene for a hilarious, profound, and  wide reaching conversation.  From comparing notes on their Daily Show origin stories, to the state of comedy and the modern media landscape, to the “beautiful cocaine” that is football, this is a must watch episode. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Best thing about John Wick was the hotel. Yeah, that was pretty badass. The hotel was such a great concept. The martial arts is great. I think part of that is people's just longing for a hotel that well run. It's so... I like the fighting, but I love the service. Yeah, yeah.

You can turn up nearly dead, sir, we'll take care of it. With a dog. For me, it's a hotel movie with some fighting. Wait, didn't they say they don't take... Wasn't there something they don't do that they did for him? Maybe the dog. I feel like there was something that they don't do. They don't.

It is no, it's a no pets building? No, no. They did it for him. Yes, but I swear they don't accept pets. But it was a no pet center prize. I hope I'm not wrong about this. It has a international assassins. I swear there was something.

Don't try and bring a cat in here. They said, Mr. Wick, we don't allow da-da, da, and then they, then they like made an exception for him. No, that was he wanted to kill somebody on premises. Maybe it's that. That's more likely than pets. That's more likely than... It's more likely you're not allowed to kill someone. Because I remember him coming with his dog and they were like,

they greeted the dog as if it was a customer. Because it is. Yeah. They were like, oh, John and Fluffy. Fluffy. I love the fact that you watched John Wick and your biggest takeaway was, what a hotel. I love the fact that you thought it was plausible they didn't take pets.

I still think it might be there. You come in with a blood dripping samurai sword and a dog cage and they're like, put the cage down. I'll give you a towel for the towel for that. I see you've had your shots, but as he. No, some of the other assassins, they go, it's the hair of the dog. Yeah, they're allergic to dogs. I don't know, man.

I feel like there was something, you should check it. I think there was something about, about no pets. There was just like a vibe. But you know? It's a great hotel. It really is. The York is an entire pet-friendly zone. This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

How long have you lived in New York now? I've been here since 2006 or nearly 20 years. What first brought you to New York? Daily show. I got offered the job. That was my first day in New York was the daily show. Are you serious? Yep.

No, wait, tell me your daily show origin story. So they were looking for a new correspondent. Okay. I'm in London, right? Doing the Edinburgh Festival every year. Okay. So they say, put yourself on tape. Who said this to you?

They were looking for a correspondent from the world, right? for the first time, not from America, from outside of the borders of this land. And so there were a bunch of people in London. As a British person, I'd love to criticize, but, you know, game recognized game. You know, India, you know. What about if we call it something different? Yeah, so a bunch, I think a bunch of English comedians have been asked like to put themselves on tape. Then I think I'm never going to hear from them again.

Then they say, oh, they want to, they want to meet you. So I think, fine. I've never been to New York before. This will be my free trip to New York for 36 hours. So I flew over here, stayed in Midtown, went to Applebee's for a meal, thought. I thought this must be like a quintessential American diner, Applebee's. I love how you're ticking all the boxes of every immigrant who comes up.

That's right. It's Midtown. You think best location. You can't get better than this. Hell's Kitchen. What a great name. It's true. You know what I mean? Probably ironically named. Yes. Yeah. This must be where everything is. And then Applebee's... Yeah. And then you go to Applebee's or one of it. You're like, wow, this seems like fine dining.

Yeah. You're just ticking all the boxes. And then... So then, yeah, I went to the building, like, auditioned for John. Did you know who John Stewart was? Oh, yeah. Of course. It wasn't on in England, but I knew of it. It was very much the gold standard for me of what political comedy in the world could be. It was even back then in 2006, it was, despite not being on TV in England, its presence and influence was still felt. All right, got it, got it.

So I was thrilled just to see it. So then I'd read a chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One of those chats that they, yeah. Exactly. And they said, when could you start? I'm like, I live in England. So I don't have anything here

And I was supposed to be doing Edinburgh Festival that summer So I went back to England picked up two bags full of stuff And then came back here in July of 2006 And I've barely been back since It's so crazy how similar the stories are It's almost like they have like a specific

Way of recruiting your first year Because mine was like similar It really feels like that It really feels like Because mine was like similar but slightly different. Mine was, I got a call from John, right? I was in London. I just started like one of my first tours ever.

But it was like a tiny tour. I was doing all the small cities, you know, from London, Brighton, Newcastle, you name everywhere. Big ones, small ones, everywhere. That's very tiny. And no, but I'm saying like... A whole entire... Listen to what I mean by tiny.

It was like 200 seats, 150 seats. This makes sense. Venues. Venues tiny. Not the city. Okay, okay. Thank you for clarifying. Thank you for clarifying.

He's not saying Chippin Norton, a village. No. 120 people. But an amphitheater. Weirdly. So my tour was tiny, is what I'm saying. Okay, cool. So I get a call, don't know the number.

I'm standing in Herod's. That's why I'll never forget this call. Standing in Harrods. So I'd heard about Herod's. Again, quintessential. Yes. Immigrant. I've literally never been in Harrods in my whole life.

Ah, this man. Everyone told me, you've got to go to Harrods. No. Everyone was like, you don't have, because they're like, it's the store. And remember, this is before. before Amazon. It's a mall. Yeah, but this is before things like that existed in that way.

You can find anything. They said, you go to Herods and you can find anything. Yeah. And I was like, what does that mean? They said, just go. Just go to Herod. You're very nicely done. So I go to Herod's.

Yeah. You can find anything. You can't afford anything. Yeah, you can't. I'm in the lower level one below the like minus one level. Wait, so there's different levels. Yeah, and they all have different things. So clothing, perfumes, food.

Okay. International arms dealing. misogyny yes well that's pumped in through the vents historically that's everywhere so and then my phone rings I was staring at an underwater scooter

I will never forget this moment I was staring at it thinking how in my life will I ever be able to afford one of these because it's impossible I didn't even think about where I would use it I just went I need this in my life it is an underwater scooter so you have like the

what do you call those things whether you put the bulb over your head No, you know, like when you wouldn't scuba dive, you'd wear that thing. Old scuba guys would wear. That was an underwater. It used to be brass. Yes, that thing.

But now it's on a scooter. So you go down on the scooter and then you have that on your head and you just ride around. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So it's that brass helmet, that is not brass anymore. It's not brass. No, because it would be too heavy. Yeah. So.

I think we've moved past brass. I think the moment that we've got underwater scooters, we fix the brass helmet situation. I think one follow of the other. So it's not, this thing's going to be great. If I can just. Oh, man. So it's, okay.

Wait, wait, wait, I can't move on from this. You have to describe the contraption. Okay, so now imagine a scooter or what, I guess in America, do they call it a moped? Done. Whatever, this little thing, me, like a Vespa type thing. Yeah, me, me, me, me, me, that thing. Okay.

Now imagine it has no wheels. No wheels. No, that's how they sound. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Roadrunner is, me, me, me, is a difference. So, God, I wish he was wrong, but he is right. Did you spot the difference? I wanted that to be a distinction without a difference,

but actually that was. Okay, okay. That's the story of Eugene's life. So it's a, so now imagine that, no wheels, right? But it has a little propeller underneath, okay? So sort of like a jet ski, but not, but you can't see the motor. So that's it.

So you sit and you ride like that. but then it has a contraption that comes from the front of it that brings... Wait, wait, wait, I'll explain this part. So there's a contraption that comes over the front of it and then there's a dome that goes over your head with the glass bubble that you can look through. So all you've got to do is get in there.

You don't wear any scuba gear. And it has oxygen tanks on it. And then you just ride around. So does it have weights to weigh down to the bottom of... It is weights. The whole thing is weights. You can't like put this in your backpack. It's the size of a scooter.

So how would you get into the water with it? These are not things I thought of at the time. All he knew was I want this in my life, despite the fact there's no room or practical use for it. Or anything. I come from Johannesburg. We don't even have the ocean. I was just like, I know I need this in my life. I'm in the market for an instantly depreciating asset.

To call this thing an investment would not be fair. You are setting fire to money. To your money. But I didn't have the money. I was just staring at it. Then my phone rang. And it was John Stewart. I didn't know John Stewart.

Unlike you, I didn't know who he even was. And then he came on. And you know John better than anyone. Like, John does not take himself as seriously as people take him. Right? Yeah. So he calls me, goes, hey, can I speak to Trevor? I'm like speaking.

He says, hey, do you speak to John Stewart? I host a little show. That's what he said. The exact phrasing was, I host a little show in America called The Daily Show. That joke only works if you know what the daily show is otherwise it just seems like a description Because this was the big Just like the water under water scooter

I was just like totally wasted on you I was like no no that was not wasted on me Did you buy it? I couldn't Let's get back to that Okay sharp Let's get back to that So then John goes

I'm not done with that either So John goes Wait so John goes I host a little show I'm John Stewart Then I was like he's like I don't know if you've heard of me I was like no no I haven't

And then he said he's phrasing I forget it sometimes but he goes like, he said something to the effect of, nor should you have. That's what he said. That sounds right. He said, John Stewart, I don't know if you've heard of me. Then I said, no, I haven't. And he said, no, should you have? And then I, he said, I host a little show in America called The Daily Show. Then I was like, oh, I think I've heard of that. And he's like, as you should. As you should have. And he's like, um, we, we saw some of your stuff. I like your stuff.

I was wondering, like you, what do you do? Would you like to come to New York? And Now, first of all, I come from South Africa. I'm like, this 50% chance there's a skill. am. This is somebody's just trying to get my details. I know how this works. Never mind the underwater scooter. No. He's going, what is your critical?

He's got on the phone right now. He's barely listening to the guy. He's more just looking at this scooter. I'm still reading the specs on the thing while he's talking. Then he said, can you come to New York? And I was like, ah, not. Then I was like, what's that? He's like, we want to hire you.

You're going to come to New York. I was like, oh, no, I, no thank you. He's like, I'm sorry, what? And I'll never forget. He went, sorry what? I said, yeah, I've got a, I've got a tour that I'm doing. now, looting, like all these places. Chip in Norton.

Like, I'm out here, baby. Squagsbury. I said the same thing. I said a version of that when they offered me the job. You did? My manager said, yeah, they want you to do the job. And I said, I can't do it. I'm going to Edinburgh.

You see? And he said, yeah, you're not going to Edinburgh. You're going to go. You're going to go. You're going to go do this job. Otherwise, I was thinking, yeah, but I got an 80 seat of room to stand. You know how hard it is to book Edinburgh? Yeah, I got a room.

Hmm. You're internationally. claimed satirical TV show has to wake, baby. I don't think you understand supply and demand in Edinburgh in August. And your review written by copstick. Oh, wow. What a deep cut, you see. Wow.

You got a cake copstick reference. Man, we've made it. So that was me. And then John said, wait, so then he paused and he went, tell me about your life. Who are you? I was like, oh, I'm a comedian and I'm doing comedy now. staring at an underwater scooter

wanting it to be mine. In that landlock city. Remind me, who are you again? And then he basically said, well, if you ever change your mind and if you come to New York, let me know. And he said, wait, but I'm just confirmed,

are you saying no? And I said, yeah, but with all due respect, I mean, and he was, and I'm glad I didn't, I genuinely didn't know. I wasn't like, it wasn't, it wasn't me being like,

I don't have time for this. It was more like, oh, you and your little show. I also have a little show. Yes. We've got to prioritize our little shows in life. So thank you for the call. I'm going to carry on with my life. Had I known that he would have brought me much closer to that underwater scooter.

So much closer. Than anything else. That wouldn't have. Yeah. That's amazing. That is relatively similar. Then other than, so when did you find out what that show meant? I was more worried about, did anyone come and help him at the store?

No one. Okay. No one came and helped. No one came and said, sir, do you need any... I didn't look like I could buy anything in that stuff. Yeah, I think Harrod's staff are pretty well trained for whether you couldn't...

No, race... I mean, again, I think that comes through the vents. With the classism, too, that's all there. No, I think what they're looking for is Saudi money. Yeah. I think, I think... Or Michael Jackson moving through it when... Or even, even like oil compound...

They did Michael Jackson dirty. They did Michael Jackson dirty. You know the story about how they sold him all the cheap knockoff stuff and they were like he just has money he's just going to take it and he was like

that's pretty that's pretty they were like he doesn't know the difference interesting they just sold them everything that was that is not Michael Jackson My take away from the flawed like of Michael Jackson is not that

he was scammed out of some purchases I think we would get to that but I'll probably work through the abuse allegations and the history of music before we got to contractually it felt like

Harrod's let him down. Buying a fake Ming Dynasty vase. Ironically made in China as well. Wow. Wow. So wait, okay, so now let's go back to your world. So now you get brought in. So now you come in immediately.

And that's it. I come in a start work immediately. So I don't know if they did this with you. When I got my stuff, I came back, my first day in the office. I think I've found out since then, this is a very nice thing that they would do. They would try and get you on the show, straight away. So you're not hanging around too long, watching,

thinking about what it will be like. I landed back here, exhausted, went to the office, they said, you're going to be on the show tonight. Like, wait, what? And so the whole thing then moved very, very quickly, and all of a sudden I was in. In retrospect, I see that that is a very kind thing

to do for people to get them in quickly. Yeah. So you're not overthinking it. Essentially, I think it's like the same tactics that a drug gang user, when you're flirting with the idea of being part of the cartel, they get you into a deal as quickly as possible so that you can't now back out.

Perfect analogy. Wait, wait. You have to explain to us. You said no at the shop, right? I said no, yeah. So how long before you say yes? And what makes you say yes? So this was, I don't know how long it was after that.

I'm bad with time in that way, maybe six months. I don't know, I don't know, but it was much, much, much later. I'm coming to New York to do my show in a small little theater. Because remember, I'm on my trajectory. I'm nailing it. I'm doing my thing. John contacts me again basically goes like, I heard you're in New York.

Oh, wow. Then I'm like, ah, man, I'm like this guy. Yeah. Yo. Now, I still don't. So here's what I have to explain about this. I didn't, first of all, I didn't know what the daily show was because we didn't get it in that way in South Africa.

But more importantly, I had seen what John did. And I've told him this. I'd seen it. But it used to air on CNN. Yeah, that's sort of the globalization. Yes, exactly. The Global Edition. Yep.

So what I saw was, Christian Amunpur, Richard Quest, news from Hong Kong, news from India, news from England, then this guy would come on TV, I assumed drunk, because he was reading the news, but man, this guy was not taking it seriously.

But this was, so John Stewart was part of CNN in my world. He used to do a package, but he would introduce it standing up. by a Greenscreen. Yes. I then watched him do it because it would be one of the writer's jobs. Exactly.

It would be one of us to write, you just shit out a wraparound bit for the global edition and no one cares about it because they don't see it. Nobody cared about it. Unfortunately, the rest of the world, it's the only thing they see. So they see this,

it's only one once a week. Half-fake thing of a guy speed reading his way through. Well, in the Global Edition, this is just, I'm vomiting this out into the world and no one's going to hear it. And then the rest of the world is watching it after Christian Amampore

I just told them what happened in Libya. Is this very, very confident guy in New York going, oh, welcome, anyway, here's my show. And it was, so I, that's what I, so I was like, I definitely don't want to be part of that thing, whatever it is. I don't want to join the news. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to join the news.

So the first time I found, so I come to the show, came to the show when I was in New York, John said, just come to the building and hang out with us. So I walk in. I sound gang like. See? Just hang out. Was I gone then?

Or was I there? You were, you weren't there. Yeah. So I must have gone. You were gone. Yeah, you were gone. Yeah, you were gone. I think you were just about to launch your show.

You hadn't launched your show in HBO actually. Oh, wow. So you were right in that window. Yeah, you had just left. You had just left, but you hadn't launched your show. Huh. And they were using you as the template for me. Like, literally they were like, so this works for John.

So they were literally like, John Oliver would sit. in this office so you can sit here in this office. Yeah, yeah. And because I'm assuming they were just like, it's empire vibes. You guys, this is what you do, right? You sound like him, I think. So, yeah, we do all sound the same.

You're not from here, okay. It is, there is something about the American ear that cannot distinguish between English, Australian, New Zealand, and South African. Yeah, no, it's all the four of us are the same. And they can't do it. They don't hear the vowels. It just hit for some reason.

That's our sounds are completely indistinct. So it just, it's a gamble. It's one in four chance each time. The best description someone gave me once that helped me understand this. It encapsulated it was there's a guy I met in the street, UPS driver, big fan of the show. I was hosting the data show this time. And he looked at me and he went, he's like, hey, man. He's like, yo man, I mess with this dude.

He said, you're that British dude from South Africa. Well, again. But that was. Again, historically. But that was so perfect to what you're saying. He said, you're that British dude. Yeah. Yes.

from South Africa. Yeah. He knew where I was from. He knew where I was from you. because you like tea, not coffee. You're that kind of guy. Sure, yeah. Right?

So they go, this is what we're gonna do. John goes, just hang out. I go into one of their meetings. If you go into a daily show meeting, you will not know a single thing. Maybe now because of Trump, the world has become more attuned with what America is talking about.

Back then it was John Boehner. Yeah. Which threw me off because on the screen, I read Bona. It's because B-O-E-H-N-E-R. And then everyone was saying Boehner. And I was like, are they doing this on purpose as a joke

to avoid saying Bono? It's an addition. And then they were talking about gerrymandering, filibustering. They were talking about, like, you know, I was just like, what is this? And then at the end, John was like, so what do you think?

And I said, my friend, you're a very funny guy. But this thing you do and what I do, very different worlds. You guys are doing homework. I'm doing comedy. So I like you a lot. Then he just walked around the building with me. We told jokes, told jokes, because John is funny. We just told, told jokes, told jokes, told jokes, told jokes.

And then John said, let's do this conversation on the air. Did it sound the same? But yeah, but interestingly, because having been in. In that process, you're there at the morning, I understand the distinction you're making between you're doing homework, I'm doing comedy. That time of the day, for the best comedies to happen, that time of the day has to be homework. Yes. Right.

So what feels like an anathoma when you're looking at it is, hey, this is a writer's meeting of comedy writers. Why is no one making jokes? And the thing is, you can get too attracted to a joke, right? and you can try and build the whole day's show around a joke that you loved, whereas the truth is you need it to be foundationally solid. You build that joke on sand,

the joke you loved collapses, or you're going to do some very dicey work trying to reinforce a joke that should not be standing up. So that is why those meetings can appear humorless if you're looking at it from the outside. But what they are doing is building the foundations for jokes that will come. later. No one explained it like this to me. Yeah. I wish you were there. No one explained it like that.

First of all, using the word anathema to describe what's going on in there. Yeah, no, no, no, I mean, already, already, already, already. No, no, full on. So then John said, let's do this in a conversation. Literally the conversation we have, he's like, what do you think of New York? And then I told him a few things. He laughed. And he said a few things. I laughed and we went back and forth. John said, why don't we do this on the show? So I don't understand. I really don't understand what the show is now. Yes. I have to go to Applebee's night. Then John said, Let's just this thing. Let's do it on the show.

And long story short, that's what we did. We basically took our conversation, turned it into a chat between us. And that's what we put on the show. And John was like, that was amazing. Let's do it again. And then I said, no, I'm going home. I don't want to be a part of this. And I left.

In New Island, South Africa, we're building statues of you. Bo, ba, bo, bo, b, quing, quing, quing. Guys, it is hard. Did you anticipate how much hard work it would be? Yes. I think I knew it was going to be hard. I think I didn't know exactly what you were talking about. I didn't know how quickly I was going to need to do a crash course in American policy.

Not just the characters, but the functions of it, right, where you are starting to look at the separation of powers and just the basic way that government operates. And you realize as you're in meetings for months, you're thinking, I need to Google that later. I need to Google that later. You're going to have to kind of teach yourself as you go along and fill in the gaps and know that in a sense you're always in search of gaps because that is how you're going to fundamentally understand the country that you're hoping to call home in my case. Did you always know, like what were you doing in the UK?

No, because my man is the same guy that said you're not going to Edinburgh this year. He said, just go. Like, don't sign anything more than the three-month lease because, American TV shows fire you after three months. Okay. That was his inspiring team talk to me. This is an English manager. This is English manager.

Yeah, you can tell. Yeah, exactly. American managers would be like, yo, this is it, baby. Sign a seven-year lease. You're going six seasons, baby. You got it. English manager, I can see him being like,

all right, nothing more than three months. That's right. It's a huge opportunity for you, but to be honest, I'll see you in September. With your tail between your legs, haven't been humbled by what they're about to do to you. Good luck. So that, yeah.

So he had told me this is not going to take long. So I'd put all my stuff in storage in South London. It was there until last summer was when I got it out. It had been in storage facility for 18 years in South Norwood. Now you finally let now you've relaxed. You finally were like, all right. I think this thing's going well. You say that though because that that is the problem.

Right. It's partly falling in love with a job and falling in love with a country where you don't, legally permanently belong. I remember like six or seven months in being very happy with what was happening at the show and what I was learning and how for the first time I felt like I fit in. And I remember landing from London like the wheels hitting the ground in New York and things were going to go, oh, it's good to be home. And I thought, oh, that's a dangerous thing to think because this is not.

my home. Like I'm on a working visa. That's a pro if I feel that way, I might need to start making plans for this truly being my home because I it before it had just felt like a fun adventure that I was having. Then you realize, oh no, I think I love this more than I've loved anything. And there were people at the day show at the time using it as a springboard because it was such a big deal the show. I mean, it was huge. Yeah, when I think about in your era, sort of like where you came on towards the end of,

when I look at the class of people around that time, you had Steve Carell. Steve Carell was just before me. He'd gone. Yeah, he had just left. I turned up. Ed Helms was his last week. So he was off going off to the office.

And the hangover as well was coming up. Exactly. Yeah. So they were all doing stuff. But I didn't want to do any of that. So I didn't want it to be a springboard at all. I didn't want to go out on auditions. I just wanted to do that show. I didn't want to be in movies. I didn't want to be in a sitcom. I didn't want to act in something. I just wanted to be in

that building doing that show. But what version of it? Because the first time I saw you was when you did the piece about South Africa. Oh, yeah. You did that feel. Have you ever seen that? No, no, no. He did a piece for the World Cup. It is one of the most amazing pieces you'll ever see, especially if you're South African, but even if you're not. But John came to South Africa. Yeah, for the first, first game. I watched that first game in Shabina, so away. South Africa versus Mexico.

Yeah. Yeah. Shabalala! Without how I bought gold. I still think that goal was paid for. You think you can pay for that. This is what happens when you don't watch football, my man. Do you think you can, let me tell you something.

You can 100% pay for that. Eugene, let me tell you something. 100%. Eugene. Yeah. I can pay you all the money in the world. and I can give you all the time in the world you will never create that goal

my friend do you understand how hard there's so many things you can so Eugene I should give you a bit of context Eugene A doesn't believe in football nope wait hold on I'm more interested in this than I is the underwater scooter you don't believe in the concept of it

because I think football fans basically like other men because if they really love football they would watch women's football too, but because they appreciate just watching men only play football. This argument is flawed on so many levels. It's over for you. Take it away.

What are you talking about? Also, add in the fact that he also thinks it's all a scam, it's all rigged. Yeah, yeah. It's all, it's all, it's all state. It's all state. He thinks we're watching WDISN. People have been groomed from childhood. They've been put on these camps to kick this ball.

They promised jerseys. other people are being corrupted into the scam. It's a world, the World Cup's coming. Yep. Nobody wants this shit right now. That World Cup. That World Cup of ours bought. It was just for my deal.

Oh, oh, that, the World Cup was bought. And that gold. No, no, no, no, no, no. The World Cup, every World Cup is bought. FIFA is a criminal organization. So first check, at least we agree there. First care. Yes.

And then, so I'm getting on your argument saying FIFA is a criminal organization. then I'm getting off, and you are driving that argument off into crazy town. Remember, and also it's very hard for me to admit this because I did a show called Countdown 2010, which was a magazine show for four years and I traveled the world. Yeah, you hiked us up for it. He hiked up the whole country for the World Cup. Four years attending huge sporting events, Euro Cup, Africa, Africa Cup of Nations, everything. I was there.

What I took away home was my salary and the fact that all of this is a scam. Oh, all of it is a scam. But the World Cup, FIFA as an organisation, I have to think of it in terms of crime. You can't really think of them as a sporting organisation. The sport is somehow immune from their fuckery. So I was even seeing that Zoran Mamdani had that, he released that video. The one about ticket prices. No, was it the one just saying like FIFA, like choose the game over greed?

And that was the first time with Mamdani. I'm thinking, who do you think you're talking? If I was FIFA But Infantino The head of it was just going to I choose greed I've always chosen greed I've not

I've not chosen anything There's no moral compass that you can appeal to here Nothing points north in my soul So yeah FIFA is a terrible organisation That happens to produce the best imaginable product But those two things

It's like a drug organisation making the best drugs The greatest cocaine And the worst thing is when I saw this one documentary where they spoke about the football, the ball itself, that every ball for the World Cup has a name or the Jabulani. That's true. And it has its own idiosyncrasies. Yeah, that's true.

That's true. And I was like, you see now. No, you don't. Someone who played a World Cup eight years ago kicked a ball that's not similar to a World Cup ball now. That's true. So you don't, because cricket, the ball is the same. You are right about FIFA and you are wrong about football.

Okay. Football is the beautiful cocaine that the Sinolaola cartel produces. It is the most beautiful thing. that has ever existed. This explanation sounds better with a British accent. Well, we both have one of those to American ears. To a FedEx driver. To a FedEx driver, it's all the same.

Oh, Johnny from Joe Burke here. Oh, man. But you also, do you remember, I mean, I'm sure you remember it? Do you remember the piece where you were talking to racist white South Africans? Oh, man, you took it there. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Let me tell you something.

Exports, yeah. John Oliver talking to racist white South Africans and them rolling with him. Yes. But you know what? They loved him. I was what I was. Of course, there is something about me.

They like. But the interesting thing is that with that interview, what I wanted to do was get the ugliness out in the open, in a short space, right? And so it's difficult because there is, as you well know, a polish to racism in South Africa, a real patina of dignity around the horror. So I wanted to get under this guy's skin.

And I got, Louis Theroux had done some pieces in South Africa. And so one of the producer at the Daily Show had worked with Louis Thruh. So I'd asked him, hey, can you ask, is there anything? How does he get to the id of this ugliness? Right. How do you get through all of the poise? Yeah, the pretends. Exactly.

And he said, as a British person, person, the one knife you have is make some glib remark about the boers and the bull war and all of a sudden things will change. So like he's sitting down in his chair and like he's just, he seems very confident, very media practiced. I made some comment as they're putting his thing and just the eyes change. It's like, oh, and he went, oh, there's the human being. Yeah. But I came here to talk. Because the relationship between British people or English people and Afrikaners is quite dice because there's a term that they have for someone who's half Africans, half British, cold as salty. Because you know what that means?

Salty dick. Yeah. So it means one foot is in Africa and then the other foot is in Europe and your penis is in the ocean. Which always threw me off because I was like, if you look at where you're standing on the map, it never made sense to me. Johnny from Joburg is like, yeah, that's. It never made sense to me. It's a slightly sandy right testicle. Yeah, it never made sense to me.

It never made sense. So geographically, I know it's not the main problem with that term. But it doesn't seem it works on any real geographic level. Now it makes by Michael Jackson, but it worked. And then it got you. It got you. He was immediately spiky and it was easier to coax out the ugly.

He was less poised. I always wondered when I watched you doing your pieces. I was just like, because I didn't know you at all as a person. I always remember thinking, is this how this guy is? Yeah. It's not how I am because I think naturally I'm kind of non-confrontational. but in those pieces. But you love stirring shit.

I love stirring shit. You really love stirring shit up. That's exactly it. I love stirring shit up more than I love being a human being. So all of a sudden, you have this excuse to be the worst version of yourself that secretly you love more than the other parts. And you get to go full sociopath.

It's the Nazi officers used to say. It's their uniform. I get to be a totally different person. It's a just a uniform. It's something about the Hugo Boss. tailoring. Oh man. Yeah, because you...

I don't know if you're done purse. You're just like... It's not me. It's that jacket. Wait, but did you, but did you know, did you know that you... So you loved that part of the job? Yes. But did you know that you would love the hosting part of the job before you hosted,

before you guest hosted? No, I was terrified of it. So John, he did this, a similar version of that conversation that he pinged on you. Yeah. Was that he called me at home and I'm in my apartment. and he said, hey, I'm going to, um, that movie that I've been writing, I'm going to be able to direct it. I'm going, oh, that's great. This feels like a conversation.

I don't know. This can't be the first call. You're just calling everyone you know to say you're excited. So he talks about when he's going to do it over the summer. I'm like, oh, okay, great. Yeah. So what? And could you, um, could you host the show for me?

I went, yeah, I, because he'd give me everything, I think I was just hardwashed. I would say yes to everything he said. Right. You need something from me. I will do it. Anytime. Anytime. Whatever that thing is.

Criminal or not. I'll do it. So I said yes. Like it's nothing. Put the phone down and then thought, whoa, boy, what have I just agreed to? And that was terrifying. So then for the month before he left, I've shadowed him much more closely to work out exactly what the day is like. The parts of the day that I didn't see just as a writer and the correspondent on that show,

what things need to happen. So you get a fuller understanding of what mistakes do you need to fix earlier in the day, otherwise you're going to be living inside them for the rest of the day. Can I tell you? Because it's literally,

that's something people don't understand about making the daily show or like, you know, a version of last week tonight, which has a different process. But it's the, that first block that you start building on defines everything.

That's right. Everything cascades after that. That first. block. So if you put that block, just a little skew. It's downhill from there. By the time you get to block 100 at 5pm, you're like, why is this thing falling over and touching the ground? And you're like, oh, it's that first block. And if you didn't catch the first block early enough, now you're there at five, trying to be like, how many blocks can we go back before we can, yo? That's so what you learned, right, was a different way to look at that room than that first day that you were in it. Oh, yeah, yeah, for

what you're thinking is, why is this, why don't, why don't we do? Why is everyone so serious? Yeah, Why aren't we worrying about what the color of the blocks are? Yeah. Oh, you don't want to worry about... You can change the color of a block in a second. Yeah. That's what I realized was being in rewrites, good and bad, you realize you can write jokes at the last second.

You can't fix part of the story quickly. No. Otherwise, you're in big, big, big trouble. Were you shocked at how much fact-checking went into making an episode of The Daily Show? Not really, because I assumed, like, if to take big swings, you're going to have to have a system that can back you up. Otherwise, you're just not going to be able to do it for long. In a country as litigious as America.

So I wasn't that surprised. I've certainly loved it. I loved that part of the process. And I think what we've done on our show is extrapolate that out now. So it's not just chods in a room, basically just drowning in people's opinions, thinking, I'll tell you how much of this you can actually say. and then an hour later will have an answer for you. We have a much bigger, scaled-out research department now

so that they can spend weeks before the writers get anywhere near a story to work out what can you say. And then you can craft the story from those ingredients and then you can craft jokes from that story. I've always wondered why you like stirring the shit that you like stirring. Just because you are a shit stir, it does not necessarily mean that you choose to stir shit in every cup. Does that make sense?

Why sit in the cup, anyway? Well, I feel like that's like more shit-stiry. If you're doing it in like a toilet, it's weird. You know what I mean? I do love the feeling of trouble. Yeah, you do, but a specific type of trouble is what I've noticed. Like, maybe it's just me, but you'll correct me if I'm wrong. When I think of John Oliver, I go, like, political shit stirring, I'm like, a little bit, but not so much.

But when you get into, like, corporate... Yeah. You listen. I love it so much. You know a guy almost maybe became corporate. If it wasn't for comedy, maybe you would have been in corporate, right? No, I would not, never. Never, never. I couldn't survive in that world.

I couldn't do it. That was not for me. What was the plan? There was no real plan. Did you study anything? I studied English. Wow, that's a waste. The language that you speak at home.

John. Thank you. And do I not speak it beautifully? Can I tell you? You speak so well. Thank you. You speak so well. Has anyone told you how articulate you are?

Thank you. You speak very well, John. Very well. That's what three years of higher education will give you. I didn't come in talking like this. I left that way. No, I wanted, I started writing comedy at college, and then I did my first stand-up gig,

and it was, I imagine, how a drug addict feels when they get their first taste of something which they know is now going to alter how they live the rest of their life. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. Do you remember your first joke on stage? Or your first, like, bit that was, like, your... I had a bit about driving theory tests. I think...

I can't remember exactly what I do. About EasyJet at the time. Not great jokes, but I remember... Before EasyJet was... It was early days of EasyJet. Isn't EasyJet back now with that thing? is it a jet two holiday yeah

yeah no it's so I can't remember it wasn't great but the process of the feeling of it I knew I was at college with Richard Iowardi

do you know that guy oh yes I do know yes yes Richard with the glasses with the hair but he's in the movies now and stuff yeah we wrote

we wrote we wrote at footlights together and we did a two-man show and I remember walking off the stage

for the first night that we put our own show on and thinking, I want to do this. I don't know what that's going to mean. I don't know where I'm going to be able to do it. But all of a sudden, my life became quite clear in terms of not how it was going to turn out, but what I was going to try and do. And that's a huge gift, isn't it, in many ways?

Oh, no, it's the greatest gift of all. I remember my dad years, years later saying, oh, I admire that you never gave up. And it only at that point occurred to me that at some point that would have been an option. It never even crossed my mind to give up. Even when from the outside, it must have looked like, this is not a dignified life that you're building for yourself here. But I was so happy in it.

It never crossed my mind. Where did your funny come from in the family? I mean, I don't know, survival. Is your dad, your mom, your grandfather? Yeah, I think you say you have the closest. is comedic. Probably my dad's dad, but my family's from Liverpool, right? And so that is a city that's been through some shit. Ah, okay, okay. It's main processing technique was often comedy. Yeah. And my granddad was a really, really funny guy, a very odd man. Okay. Loved jokes. I remember

John Bishop explaining this to me. The Liverpool comedian, he was like, I was like, why are you so, and he, and he said, honestly, he said, I'm not even the funniest person in this place. I just do it professionally. For sure. And it's just a vibe of people. It's interesting you say that because it almost feels like the people of Liverpool, so many shit things happened to them that they were like, we will exist in a world of shit stirring in this world now.

Do you know what I mean? It's just how you survive. Gallows humor, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. And so it's the only thing that's ever made sense. For me, it's the only way I've ever processed the world is through. Ha.

laughs. At his funeral, I did, I was, I wanted it to be funny. Yeah. Because it felt like, if this event isn't funny, this is no reflection of who he was. That in many ways, in my mind as a kid, he was the guy that taught me how to misbehave because he knew it would be funny. Like, you're sitting at a table. He's like saying, just bang your cutlery like this. And like two seconds later, I'm in trouble and he's laughing. You're like, oh, I like the sound that came out of that mouth. I've caused a big problem in this room but this guy's just chuckling to himself oh what do I need to get a little bit more of that

he was your first audience I like this and you know what the last time I saw him I think I've told this story before was he was dying in an old people's home and my he was definitely not going to be around for long and he my dad left to get the car

he was on the ground floor and so I just thought I could leave through the door or I could like client there was like a little window into a hedge and I thought or I could just like climb out through the window and go through the hedge. And so I thought, I'll just do the hedge. So I looked up the window, climb out, like scratching through into the car park. And the last thing I heard him say to me was, you're an idiot.

That's the last thing. That's the last thing he said to me. Your grandfather ever said. Those are the last things I heard from him out of his mouth was, you're an idiot. I remember like hearing it as I'm scratching through a hedge going, that went well. I'm glad I did that. Option B was the right choice. You don't get you're an idiot if you walk functionally through a door.

Who was that? Oh man. I love this for you. Like, it's just like, it's, it's, it's a crazy journey for me because like, what I've, what I've selfishly always enjoyed about your career is I've always said to people, you were the pioneer for my path. You know what I mean? So when I first came to the US, one thing that was made apparently clear to me was,

hey, you're nice and everything. but Americans don't like people with an accent, especially doing anything in and around their world. Just keep it moving, keep it moving. Let alone speaking about their politics. Yeah, yeah, keep it moving. You can see why, though, right? Oh, completely.

Yeah, there is like, it feels like you earn the right to criticize, right? And they can, they can be questioning, I think, understandably Americans. Where is this coming from? And it's a shift for me to go often from, you, you do this, you do this, to we do this. We do this. We, because I'm an American now, right? And so I play with you and we.

But there was at least a sense of ownership. And again, as a British person, a sense of ownership in a country has a bit of an asterisk on it. But it did feel like this isn't coming from, I think there have been people who've come, like done a smash and grab in America. And there's no real emotional investment in it. Whereas that was not the case with me

and I don't think it was ever going to be the case with you. Yeah, but I think at the time, the industry, this wasn't people. This was just the industry going, hey, it doesn't work. Don't even bother. I remember one of my good friends, Neil Brennan, the comedian,

he said to me, he's like, just leave. We were in a small little diner in Denver, Colorado. He had been performing at the improv. I'd been performing at like a happy clap, whatever, you know, like one of the second type clubs. And he was just like, what are you doing here? He said, just go home. Go home.

I was like, oh, I'm doing comedy. He's like, no, he's like, America won't give you, just go home. Yeah, I'm not sure that's true. Yeah, but you say that. But I will never forget when the switch flipped. And it almost happened at the same time for both of us. I had done, I think two episodes of the Daily Show, just as like a pop-in, contribute to even, not correspondent.

I just contribute and I leave. Contribute and I leave. And someone had asked me, would you do this full time? And I was like, no, there's no world where I would do this full-time. I just can't see the possibility. And I was at home watching TV and your show came on. And it was the first episode and it was about India's elections. And I remember sitting on the couch and I went, oh, oh, yeah, I would, oh, I would do.

Okay, okay. Because it was the first time I saw an American lens on the world, not from an American, but including America. I was like, oh. America. Yeah, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, okay, that's, that's a possibility. I was like, okay, I would, I would, I would do that. And I genuinely think I wouldn't have gotten the daily show it wasn't for you, genuinely. Maybe. I promise you. Really? I'm willing to bet money. Hmm. Six, how many months did you do it? Guest hosting? Uh, three, just three months. Three months. Yeah, just a summer. Just that three months alone. I think, maybe. I think that, I think

there, I think there was real panic about John ever leaving. And I think at least it should, showed that that staff was solid enough that somebody could do that job temporarily. Yes. I still don't think there was any confidence that somebody could do it forever. Yes. Someone could fill in for him in a panic. I don't think there was any real institutional confidence at Comedy Central of, oh, great, so someone else can do it.

It still was very much his thing. Yeah, but you being successful even at HBO made people go, oh, there's a possibility. I think that was different. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah, because I think what we were trying to do. to do was stretch the form of it. It took us a while, but I think that Indian election was such a gift for a first show because, to my mind, there was nothing more interesting happening in the world that week than the Indian election, the largest exercise of democracy in human history,

and it was nowhere on American television, which was just wildly insular. It felt nothing is happening in America that was more interesting this week than what is about to happen in India. That was almost a gift. From there, we had to kind of get out of our system, that rhythm from the daily show where you're just reacting. Reacting. Yeah, reacting. And we did one

show that wasn't very good, I remember, about immigration early on, that felt like we'd done like a 10 minute headline that was really just, you could have kind of done it on the daily show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was stuff you'd already seen. It didn't feel good. Luckily, we had,

I think, I think it's that I'd an interview with Stephen Hawking that we did after that. And so that was the main thing that people thought about. For us, the real lesson that we learned that day was that what we wanted our show to be about was showing people something they hadn't seen before. Yeah. Because it felt like then you're actually using the extra time that you got. Otherwise, it feels like cheating.

It's just doing one show a week that you could have written in a day or two. To be fair. Now, from that lesson on, we extrapolated our process out so that we're spending six weeks on each story. And you're just juggling them at the same time. Yeah, you're just moving them around and then choosing. And you can you can force feed any story that you like on people then. You can like you have a,

you earn the right to have an audience that will actually sit through something that sounds unbelievably boring, like mobile home financing. But the moment that you get into it, you realize how interesting. Everything is in, you know this. Yeah, everything is interesting. Everything is interesting if you know enough about it, I find. Exactly. That's literally what it is.

So you just need to give people enough information about it for them to be able to find it interesting. But that takes time. And commercial television, that is much, much harder. Because you need, it's hard. You can do any duration. Yeah, so that is a big difference, right? It's hard to hold people's attention.

You take them on a long narrative story if you're having to say six, eight, nine minutes in we'll be right back. Three minutes of Twix commercials. And they're like, I forget where I was. So that is why it's much easier for us to be able to do like 40 minute long stories that sound like they're just in one breath because you can't leave. I've always loved watching it,

thinking about how many enemies you make in. Like sometimes I genuinely think to myself, I go, are there moments where John maybe can't get alone? Or maybe someone gives them a less favorable? No, because I think of like, how many times has your show been sued? We've been sued a bunch of, not a lot of times. We've been threatened with lawsuits a huge amount. Okay, okay.

Actual number of lawsuits is one handful, but we haven't lost any. That's the key thing. I always say to our audience. Undefeated. That's the thing. Like, it can be a fractious, albeit functional relationship with our lawyers. But I think we have like a different view of their job. Because I think what they think their job is is to stop us getting sued.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think their job is to make sure that when we get sued, we win. Right. And that, that part of it is everything that I love. When you know you're in trouble, the company's angry with you, your own lawyers are angry with you. The only people that are excited are the people that you work with. And the audience. And the audience, yeah, the audience, because they love.

Like everyone loves watching a car crash. Right. And it's so much fun to be in that position. and it feels like to me because it's not commercial because you have full freedom of speech as well that it is incumbent upon

you if you're lucky enough to be in that position to push it as hard as you can so then are you worried at all about all the mergers and stuff that are coming oh sure but I mean we've this would be

because your show would be what is HBO's under Warner so if Warner gets sold yep you would if it was Netflix you'd be under Netflix technically or if it was Paramount we're on a Comcast

and then they might break it up up as well and then everything could go everywhere. Who knows? And it'll be like tied up in the courts. But this would not be our first merger. But this would be our- Oh, you're all around for AT&T? This would be our third merger.

How many have you been around for? We were around for first we were taken over time Warner was taken over by AT&T. Okay. Then AT&T was taken over by Warner Brothers Discovery. Yeah. And then Warner Brothers Discovery is going to be taken over by company question mark. So we'll see. What do you think?

of the merger? I mean, I think mergers are generally bad. I think you're always hoping for the least bad option. Yeah. And I think that like the key thing for us is to act with enough enough like aggression or confidence. Like I would, I will act assuming nothing is going to happen. We're not going to change, right? I think we've been on, we've been behaving the way we've been behaving for long enough that you can't really reason with us. So there's no point in doing that. There's no, yeah, you're not going to be able to. You know what I just pictured like, you and your team are like that like that village?

You know those stories that they would talk about? Like every empire had it, whether it was the Romans or the Mongols or whoever it was. And there would always be this one village. Chip in Norton. Where they went, they went, you know what, we've technically conquered this whole area. Yeah. Just leave them. Just leave them.

Just let them do their thing because... It's not worth it. You want to be that village. You want to be that village so unreasonable that gigantic corporate armies just go, just leave them alone. That's all you want. Be enough trouble that you're too much trouble

to deal with. Well, I mean, again, it's least bad, right? It's not like there's good options, like as played out during mergers. You know these things come with cuts. I have yet to see a merger that has done well for the whole thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah. It's just almost, it's almost like the only mergers that do well are outliers. Almost every merger doesn't do well. I don't understand why mergers are still a popular thing. Yeah. I mean, it's going to get tied up in courts because you can't really, there are going to be question marks on all of this, right? Because it's very hard to justify this legally.

Now, whether that makes it impossible for it to happen, that's an open question. Yeah. But again, you can't waste time worrying about something that you're not going to listen to. anyway. It feels like we're just going to do what we do. Whoever they are is going to have to realize either you ignore us like that irritating village

or you're going to have to take us around the back of the woodshed. Do you miss the stand-up that you used to do? I do. I love it so much. You know, one of my favorite jokes ever is a joke of yours that I never heard you tell that someone told me you told. It was your Arkeli joke.

The ignition joke. Do you remember that? Yeah. What was that? So the joke, it's crazy that I remember. It was just one of my favorite jokes ever. So it was the John Oliver joke. And the joke was, it was basically you saying, I hate how my brain chooses what it wants to remember and what it doesn't want.

And I'm paraphrasing everything. But it was basically the premise was, I hate how my brain chooses what it wants to remember and doesn't allow me to choose what I want to remember. Because there's very important things that I want to remember in the world, you know, like the capital of this place or the laws and da-da-da-da-da-da. But instead, my brain. is fulled with random things. Like, so for instance, I went to a CPR, and I learned how to do CPR.

Like, they taught me how to do CPR, and there's very specific steps that you have to do, right? I also heard R. Kelly's Ignition song, which I know all the words, too. He's like, and John was like, I've never sat down and I've never learned the words. I've never tried to remember the words, but I know them all. It's the remix to Ignition. Then you're like, when I was at the CPR class, they said to me, they were like, the CPR technique, the rhythm of it is the same as the rhythm of ignition. Yeah, so while you're doing it's the remix to ignition,

like that's what you gotta be pumping to. And then John was like, but now I'm afraid that my brain will screw me up. I'm gonna be on a plane one day and he'll be like, oh my God, someone's having a heart attack, someone, can somebody come? And then John's gonna come in there and he'll be like, ah, I forgot the CPR, but he's like, it's the remix to ignition. Here's the amazing thing. I don't remember any part of that joke at all, but I do remember

all the lyrics to ignition. shouldn't they are calling. So that, I don't know if that's my joke or not, but the premise stands up. Oh, Kelly, by the way, did Harrod screw him over for any purchases? They should have. Maybe that's their origin story. Maybe that's the beginning

of it all, right? Is Herod screws you over? Oh, Kelly, like Michael Jackson, is really the victim when it comes to Harris. Leave the other women at the penthouse. Those two. But you, I mean, why can't the Al-Fired family catch a

No, because you love stand. I'm assuming you still love stand-up, right? Yeah, yeah, I still do stand-up, yeah. And you love it. I love it so much. It still like it calms me down like nothing else. Wait, it calms you down. You.

Trevor, I will take that surprise from anyone but you. No, no, no, no. It calms you down. Yeah, it clears your head. Fully surprise. Really? You don't find it that way too? Calming?

Yeah. Invigorating, I would say yes. Yeah. Calming? No. What, Eugene? What are you calming and? Which word would you use for stand-up?

Avoiding. Avoiding? Sure. But how does stand-up make you feel? Oh, yeah. You know, every time I do stand-up, I'm like, thank God I'm naturally good at it, but I don't rely on it. Because? Because I'd be miserable.

Why? If it's all I had to do, I'll die. So when I do it, I'm going, I'm not going to suck. know that. So thank God for that part. Okay. But I'm like, thank God I don't have to come back here every day and do this thing to survive. Huh. Ah. So that's what I think every comedian has a different, like I don't

hate it. Calm, I don't get, John. No. And I don't get nervous. Because when you first said, thank goodness I'm so predaturally talented at this. You sounded like Cristiano Ronaldo at that point. No, no, no. You wouldn't even get the reference or he'll think he's just some kind of puppet from the CIA. No, no, no. Eugene knows everyone in football just to troll people who

No football. Where I understand is that like the grind of standards, especially when you're starting off right, where it is such a slog just to get by. I am very grateful that I don't have to do that exclusively, but I would never not want to do it at all. Yes. Yeah, but I'm saying.

English summed it up nicely. That's three years. Three years are paid off. No, but calm I, yeah, calm I don't get. Genuinely. Yeah. It's coming. I find it, yeah, it clears my head like nothing else.

I think just like the process of it, the fact it's, you know, our show is so collaborative. There are so many moving parts. There is a simplicity, a directness to stand up. Yeah. That you can't really replicate. It's just, it's a, like it's a fundamentally selfish exercise, right? And there's something I love about the. the social side of it, the fact that you're not socializing.

Like you can be an isolated person among a lot of people. Like you're with a lot of people, but you're alone. Yeah. Like you're, there's a purpose to your day. You can structure everything around that. See that. What was your, what is your stand-up day? What's your?

Well, it depends. Like, here I get to do once a month at the beacon with Seth at the moment. Okay. No, but I'm saying, like, what's a stand-up day for you? If I'm on the road. What would you do? from the morning, from the time you wake up, what time do you wake up and then what's your day before you go on stage?

Well, see, it changed over the year because I had kids. So my body clock is not what it was. I used to have the stand-up body clock where I could happily just sleep past noon and do things. Now I'm stuck between two worlds because my body wants to get up at six o'clock when my kids are getting up where they are. So I'm kind of up then. So for me doing stand-up right now, Well, I'm really, because I'm not kind of, I'm not in that regular routine.

It's kind of trying to break the routine of the way my mind works. Okay. All right. Okay. Got it. The show and structuring the show. It's a vacation. So, exactly.

It's a vacation. It's trying to think about jokes in the stand-up form, which, you know, it's different, right? It's different. There are things that you would love on the daily show that you know would not work. And similarly, stand-up jokes that wouldn't work in the form of the Daily Show. So, yeah, it's really just about trying to keep my love for stand-up alive, despite the fact I don't get to do it enough. Yeah.

I did it a whole bunch during the strike just because it was the best way to... Oh, yeah, now you're off the show and now you can go out there and you can do something. Yeah, so I just scrambled a whole bunch of dates and did a lot of it. That was the most I've done it. So for a few months, I was out constantly because it felt like it was the only way, that I could help the staff pay, but also just the only way that it was going to stop my head from exploding.

Are your kids funny? Yes, they are. Thank goodness. God, that would be wrong. Ronaldo. Do you remember when they asked Christiana Ronaldo? They're like, your son's really good. Do you think he'll be as good as you?

And he was like, no. He's like, no, I don't think he'll ever be as good. He'll never be as good as me. He's not focused. He drinks Coca-Cola. He's just like, full. I was like, yo, bro. Not even like a, yeah, he has it in.

He's like, nah, bro. He's like this kid. Nah. He doesn't have it in him to be the best. Yeah, but at least he didn't lie. We have one kid that's been lied to and he's in the NBA now. Wow. Who are we talking about?

Wow. Who are we talking about, Trevor? Who are we talking about? Oh. I'm not going to engage in your shit-sterness at all. In a cup? At all. Not even in a plastic cup.

At all. Shit is stirring in a plastic cup. At- Not even ceramic. At all. Plastic cup. No chance. With a wooden spoon.

Zero. Not even. Nada. Are you trying to bring. Trevor into a high-profile MBA? This guy's trying to bring me into beefs. That's what Eugene tries to do. You're trying to suck him all the way into a beef.

This guy's trying to bring me into beefs. I don't like the way you said suck him. It was... Suck him into. Into. Yeah, but that's what stuck out because... Say it again. Suck him...

Yeah, but your suck him is strong. I'm not going to lie. It felt... That felt like there was suction involved there. Yeah, your sucking... Your sucking is strong. I will say that. And after he said that, I just said,

this is the... It's a mixed to English. Hard and straight out the kitchen Mama, what a song By the way, by the way Is Daniel Kitson gonna come do more comedy on this? Like, I hope so.

I hope so, yeah. I mean, he's the greatest. That's one of your favorite comedians, nah? I heard his name from you for the first time. He's, you guys are very close friends. He's my best man at my wedding.

So, you know what's funny? It's like I feel like you and Daniel have a relationship like me and Eugene where... We have a relationship. This is what I'm talking about. See? I love it.

See what you just did there? So like, it's where Where two people meet, you're similar, but you're not the same. You have like a comedic undercurrent that connects you. When I met Daniel, I felt like I knew him because of you. Daniel Kitson is, in my opinion, the greatest comedian that most people do not know. But if you know comedy, he has to be in like your top five. Yeah, he's very good.

Where did you see him? Everywhere I could. Everywhere I could. Australia. Oh, sure. Yeah. Melbourne. Edinburgh.

Is the guy who loves late shows? Yeah, but again, the myth around him is people, I don't know if you've heard any of these, people will be like, oh, Daniel Kitson, he does shows at 12-01 or 1159 because he likes how that, yeah, and you're like, wait, they're like, he does a show at 12.03 midnight, and you're like, and I heard all these myths about him. Or he only does a show at 1 p.m. because he wants real comedy fan.

And then I met him, I was like, yo, man, I have to ask you about some of these myths. I'm sorry. And then Daniel was just like, he's like, oh, I put the show on at 12.03 because then it's the next day. Otherwise, if you put on at midnight, it screws up most booking systems. So it's like, that's why I did that. Yeah, there's much more practical thing. I think, I think it's a bit of a hangover from the fact that when he won the Perrier Award, you know, the big award in Edinburgh. I think that that came with.

Yeah, it is. That's right. See? Yeah, it's the ballandor of comedy. Right? And I imagine you think you have to pay for it somehow. Is that right? Yep.

If Coptic has their way. Yeah, when he won that, all of a sudden he was finding there were people coming to his shows that he didn't necessarily want there. Oh. The commercial success. No, yeah, he wanted to do his show the way he wanted to do it. He didn't want people there who he didn't want in his audience. This makes complete sense.

And so he needed to get rid of some of that by making it more difficult for them to watch than it necessarily needed to be to come. So it was a filtering system, and it worked because the Perrier back then it was such a gravitational force as an award. All of a sudden, you were plunged into a certain kind of career, and he did not want that. So that came with a need to do things his own way. Yeah, but the fact that he chose that,

that's what I feel like with you in some ways is like, I don't use a choice though. No, but you have this thing where, how can I put it? So some people are famous because of what they do and they love that fame.

Right? And then there are other people who have jobs that are just attached to fame and if they could, they would slice that out of their lives. That's how I feel about you. Like you have a very like,

even if you win an award, you have a very like, there's like a... I cannot wait to get off it because it's the weirdest place to be. And it's not a funny place to be. So I cannot wait. The only thing I like is when they play you off. I love, I'd love the feeling of being played off an award ceremony. So the music, I love it so much. The thing that I just, it's just, it's such an absurd situation to have

to be interrupted by an orchestra. It's just, I love it. Okay, but help me, help me understand it. What, what is it about? Because everyone has a different reason. That's why I'm interested. What is it about the fame or the spotlight or anything that just like makes you just a little... Even now, look at your body. I don't like it. It's not... I don't like... I'm very conscious of the fact that because our show has become well known, I am the face of that show.

I am the face of that show. Yeah. And so there are things that you can do with that in terms of protecting your ability to say what you want. to not conform to a corporation who employs you to go yeah you can do whatever you want so though

the value of it is extreme there that's the utility of fame as you put it is that you can do what you want in your show everything else around it

it is not for me I don't have any kind of real connection to it at all that's the comics curse right you want people to love you but you want them to love you at your own terms or you want them to

love what you do, I would even say. Yeah, but they have to love you. Because there's nothing else to distract them from you. But it feels like it's two different. I was talking to this little girl in my, um, uh, my kids, my kids class. Oh, God. No, no. No, no.

No, no. She was, she was, uh, she was, she was, she was, she was, she was, she was, she was, she was, uh, at the start of a season, uh, we had like pictures or we had posters on the subway. And so she was very. confused about like, why is there a picture of you on the subway? That's hilarious. And so I was trying to explain to her, oh, I just do a show. And so they're trying to advertise that show.

And she went, I don't know what that means. Oh, I just, I do a TV show. And so we need people to know about it. And so then she said, are you famous? I don't think I'm famous because you're asking me this question. So I don't think I'm, I don't like the people that, what, there's a, some people watch the show. Most people don't. So those people do know me. No one else knows. And you know, you know me, right? You know me as Marzi's dad. So there's nothing, you don't need to worry about this.

And she said, I'm not worried about this at all. She's like, I don't know what's happening to you right now. I just asked, why is there a picture? You're having an existential crisis in front of you. I'm six years old. How am I the mature person here? I just asked. Have you had the fame conversation with your kids? Do your kids know how famous you are? Initially, initially, I didn't.

They're 10 and 7 now. Initially, I didn't because there's no need to, right? And so I would just ran his people in the streets. Like, I would say, who's that? And I'll say, oh, that's just a friend. Like, after a summer of time. Then you realize, hold on, New York, what a friendly city. Everyone says hello.

Actually, that's not the city that you live in. So then, and I didn't want to lie to them. I didn't want kids at school to know things they didn't. That was the problem when you realized, oh, I think there are other kids that know. That I figured it out. Yeah, the figure out. Your kids are the only ones who don't.

Yeah, something's being kept from you. I didn't want that to be the case. So I kind of explained to them as best I could. They came to see one thing that I thought that would be fun for them to see was when we were messing with that New Zealand Bird of the Year contest. Did you have seen about that? I was dressed up like the Puteke-Tecke. So I'm like in this huge, colourful bird costume.

Is this how you chose your kids to see you? Yes. This is the only time they've been to my work. I'm dressed like a giant colorful bird. And then I realize that in their heads, understandably, they think that's happening every week. They think I'm big bird. That's a suit is in your car.

That's your uniform. Six months later, like I'm going to work and he said, have you got the bird costume? What bird costume? Oh, shit. Yeah, that was, that was just a one-off. I just, I just wear a suit. But it's hard, it's impossible for a kid to understand.

Because it's not, it's, it's important for them to like know what you're doing. Yeah, but the more you describe it, the worse it sounds. It's just, it's, it's, yeah, it's weird. Mm-hmm. But I found if you explain it to kids, like using class dynamics, they get it. Because they have their pictures up on walls. People know the class captain.

Do you get them saying? What did you tell your daughter? What did you? Which daughter is this? Is it the daughter for the show? That we're going to fictitiously. Are they twins? Which daughter is this?

I didn't. I haven't acknowledged that. And you know that. You're bringing that up. You're returning that. because of that MBA thing. Oh man. Now you're trying to suck me into some shit.

Oh man. What is your daughter? What did you say? I think I didn't have to say much because we spent so much time together. Obviously when people recognize you, they would recognize you from the thing that you do. So my thing was always denying it and say we look alike and she'd be like, no, it's him. So I mean, so that's... Like when people would be like, Eugene and you'd be like, that's not...

Don't lie. How do you describe stand-up to... I don't. Yeah, all I said was they came to, when I was down last December, I'm doing the Candy Center. So they came and I said, this is where I'm going to go and do my talk. I just said, like, I'm just going to stand and talk into this microphone because that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

They talk in front of the class. Exactly. Yeah. So I said, I'm just going to be doing like a talk in front of class. I think that just confuses them even more. I think your daughter relates more to your television work than your stand-up work. Because that's, that's a real thing. There's more people that she sees on television than she'll ever see doing stand-up.

So stand-up will never be a thing. It's a thing that you... Until they're old enough, then it's... Yeah. But then they'll understand that stand-up is the thing that got you the TV job. Yeah, that's why I don't say it's stand-up. I say it's just talking. Because you can understand the concept of talking in front of a classroom.

Makes sense. You stand on a chair and you talk to people and they listen. Yeah, but they... Their teacher stands there and talks and he's poor. So they... The jig is up. So you think I say... remix to Ignition now.

I told that song is sticky. No, it is. It really is. That is about as catchy. Bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce. No, that thing is just like, no. Mama rolling that body got every man in the wish. Look at this.

Look at this. I'm not so bad I'm drunk. It's the freaking weak and baby about to have a husband. Anyway, he's a terrible human being. You have to say that at the end of every end. You have to say it's a true. It's too much. Yeah.

I'd love to know what you think are the biggest existential crises that like America slash the world is facing now. Are you ready to take a sip? I really hope that is a question you just ask all your guests. No, it's just you. Like if you can have one meal for the rest of your life. Like that kind of shit. No, no, just you. Well, here's the little plastic job.

What's the biggest existential crisis? No, I'll tell you why. Oh, okay, Trevor. Just say you want us to go. I'll tell you, okay. Can I tell you why? Yeah. Can I tell you why?

I'll tell you why. So I'll ask you you the question because I remember when I was fully immersed in the daily show, my worldview was shaped in many ways by everything I was reading in and around that space. You get what I'm saying? So if you asked me at that time, I think I would have said something politics related, etc., etc., you get what I'm saying? Because I was so fully engulfed by this world. Yeah, fully, fully, fully.

If you ask me now, because I spend most of my fun time reading about like monopolies and corporations, I'll actually say that's the thing and you know that's about me. No, that is like my fun time. Reading finance. It's that pickleball and then football. Oh, pickle. Oof. You should be doing pickleball for another 35 years, shouldn't you?

You play pickleball now? Yeah, I love it. Does he play pickleball? Really? I love it. He lives there. It's fantastic. You know, one day he dragged me there for four hours.

Only one day. I've dragged you there many days, my friend. Many. You know what I love about you, though, is you don't seem to learn the lesson. I really love this about you, Jean. The first time he came along. He was standing on the side and he was, I watched him at some point. The first five minutes, he was like, okay.

And then I saw him look. You almost looked like a parent who had brought their child to an activity. And then they were like, how long do I have to stay up obligation? I didn't know it was that long. I thought decent people. I thought they play a match and then they go home. Remember, all organized sport has a time limit. Oh, yeah, you're not wrong.

Football is 90 minutes. So I was like, if I. Oh, no, you're not wrong. No, I do like four hours. And he's the Kaiser of. Yeah, I do like four hours. He shouts orders, let us play. I mean, I just think I'm motivational.

Cleaners are coming in, security guards. Everyone grabs that. We just have fun, John. Yeah. I have a good time. Have you played pickleball? John. No, I haven't played pickleball.

Have you? Oh, I did you play? I did you? I thought it was fine. Fine. Yeah, I thought it's fine. Yeah, it is fine. Yeah, it's fine.

the more you get into it. Okay. Sorry, Trevor. But it doesn't do to me what it does to other people. Do you still play football? If we like taking heroin and going, this takes the edge off. Football, I love. Do you still play football? Football, yeah, we used to play Tuesday every, every, I don't play now.

What? There's not time now. Just family and work. I just don't have time now. But I, that, I used to play all the time. Not even, like, to squeeze in like an hour. No, nothing. Oh, man, I thought it would be like knees or something.

No. I stopped because of knees. Just the concept of knees. Just knees in general. I was seeing too many of those. them. No. I would go home and have these thoughts about knees.

I just like, knees everywhere. I can't. Just 22 of them buried down on me. It was, no, no, especially running on AstroTurf,

it killed me. I was like, I can't do this. I played at PF40. Oh, nice. Yeah, we'd play like a midnight game.

And then we'd go, that was the hardest episode of the daily show every week. Because we would finish a game at midnight 1 a.m. Oh, And then 8 a.m. you're in the office trying to concentrate on what Mitch McConnell is saying. Just got knees.

Just knees in your head. That's all I have. No, so, so, yeah, you, I've brought him along a few times. Yeah. But the reason I'm saying it. First hour, I'm fine. Yeah. Hour four.

You're not wrong. I did take it too far that day. You're not wrong. And I did apologize at the time. But you're behaving like you're on steroids. But I even said to you. I even said to you, I'm sorry. Did I not say, I'm sorry.

I did from the court. I couldn't take it seriously. I did say, I'm sorry. From the court, I said, Eugene, I'm sorry, we took it too far. I did apologize. But going back, what I'm saying is your worldview. I find for anyone who spends a lot of time consuming information in certain spaces or spheres, they often have a different perspective on what they think is most dangerous for the world in that moment.

You know what I mean? And so I'm wondering, because you're reading everything. You're engaging. You're doing research. You know what I mean? You're consuming so much. I think my answer might be related to that. So rather than because, obviously, mergers are a constant threat,

and the most immediate one is always the most immediate threat. Like, land disputes around the world, everything from horrific in the medium term to systemic in the long term. I think, like, in terms of a threat being existential, one of the biggest problems right now is the kind of information that is evasive. to you to get. That feels to me like an existential threat. What constitutes because people are so siloed now and are so able to traffic in low-grade information. One of the big things that I've learned by doing our show is that there is a huge amount of utility in having access to experts in the field that researchers will speak to.

And you can get good primary source information. there is so much trash being passed around and confidently passed around. I worry about that. It's hard to have a conversation about anything when the information about that thing is so poor. That is my concern. It feels like in the past people just didn't know about certain things. Now they can be confidently wrong about something, which I actually think is more dangerous. So that is my, I guess that is what would come to mind in terms of an existential threat.

I just, I worry about our information funnels right now. Yeah, the analogy I used to use with some people that say, it would be the equivalent of people watching sports, whatever sport you want, and you have opposing teams, or you choose your teams. People already disagree on the game. That should have been a foul. That shouldn't have been a foul. that, but imagine if they were watching two different games.

Yes, right. How would you even... That's the problem. You know what I mean? Now we're not even watching the same game. And we're supposed to live in the same stadium, but we're literally not watching the same game. That's the thing.

So then any kind of shorthand of, oh, we just need to come together. Any of that by Joe Biden, this is not who we are. You are so far off addressing the central problem here that this is functionally useless. What would you change? I don't know. It feels like it's something.

something that societally is going to have to change. There's going to have to be a premium put on good information. So where do you get your information? Well, again, like that that's where we are very lucky. And this is not scalable. I have a staff who can go out and speak to experts for weeks, produce a packet of good information. They can update. They can, they can, they can find out, is this data still current? So often you're passing around data in, maybe in good faith. doesn't apply anymore. You don't know. Yeah, you don't know that that once was true. That's not true anymore. It's very difficult. That so I think that that kind of information literacy is something I think

people are going to have to get better understanding. It may be that this generation of kids are going to be better. I hope are going to be better at seeing through the garbage than older people are now. Do you think AI makes it better or worse? I mean, we'll see. We'll see. It's imminently seems like it's making things significantly worse. But I hope that long term, there are ways to fix that. But, yeah, the, again, the kind of unearned confidence of these billionaire AI cowboys is not inspiring. Like that the unearned confidence. Oh, God, yeah.

It is pretty, I mean, that's a perfect way to describe it. Because they approach a situation that they have never been in with the confidence of someone who has lived there for a century. They just don't, they make it seem like they, exist in the future that they're preaching and they're selling it to us as if it's already concluded in a good way. Or just to making decisions on a series of best case scenarios. Yeah. That feels like fatally problematic.

I think there was a story about Kamal Nanjani when he was doing that show Silicon Valley. They would go up to Silicon Valley and walk around and like into these companies, these startup companies and he would ask them kind of, yeah, what though if, how could this be used for fascism, just in general. And he would like see them go, oh, yeah, we don't really think about that here. Like, oh, you don't. That's interesting. It feels like something you might want to think about. How could your product be used to hurt people? That might be part of the decision process you want to fold in to all of this. There's a book I read about, have you read the book, Careless People, I think it is. It's a book written by this woman from New Zealand

who basically started working at Facebook as a sort of like international liaison, like their diplomat. And she talks about how, even when Facebook was starting to become the de facto social media platform around the world, they did not think they needed to care about how their platform could be used. Like they were just like, no, no, no, that's not us.

We have nothing to do with that. That is the most obvious examples. Bring the world together. Let's share information. All of those, as next thing, you know, what's happening in Myanmar? Oh, that can't be anything to do with us. Oh, it's very much to do with you. You've just thrown gasoline over what was happening.

Yeah. So now what are you going to do about it? Oh, well, you know, we're going to learn. Are you? Or is that just something you say you're going to do? Yeah. That's, it's a, yeah, it's a, that is what I'm concerned about. Do you keep your kids off social media and everything?

Absolutely. Do they have phones? No. How do you deal with that? Yeah. Well, it's easier now. They're 10 and 7, right? So they're not really going anywhere that I'm not.

As well. That's right. I have a phone. You don't play football anymore. Prison warden took over. But is it amazing how often now, even my 7-year-old, he basically treats me like Siri. It will just say, look it up, type it in.

Type it in. You ask for that job. That's right. You know what I love. Peter Lonzo. What I also like about this. Hey, Siri. Hey, dada.

Hey, dada. Hey, dadda. What I also like about this to is, I'm assuming she has an American accent. Oh, yeah. So you're like her English butler, essentially. It is, you know what is odd. Or her kidnapper in public.

You never. If you don't have the same accent as your child, that is the thin line, it's the craziest thing, though, because it's the stupidest thing that I'd never considered was that it didn't occur to me that they would not. When you grow up, the idea of having kids, you always think they'll sound like you.

So it is odd. The first time it hits your ear. And they're around for a while not speaking, right? So it feels like, oh, this is, there's going to be, hello, how are you doing? Oh, nice to see you. That's coming out one day. Keeping Norton all the way.

Yeah. And then the first time you catch them saying, hey, how's it going? Nice to see. Any kind of like American are. Yeah. Oh, oh. Oh, yeah, of course. That makes sense.

You're going to sound like the people that you're around all the time. And even better for them is they've got the immigrant dad. Because you realize for them, in your head, you're normal. Right? For the most part, in your head, you're normal. in their world, when they grow up, they're going to be American kids and they're going to be like,

oh, yeah, oh, my God. I remember my dad always be like, oh, are you going to put that away? Are you going to put that? Like, you are... That is when you really realize that got an American accent is when they do a shift when they're doing an impression of me.

Yeah. You know how dad is? He's all, oh, you've got to put your toys away. You're like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. We're getting a little confident with that accent. It's okay when I do that voice. It's not, don't give me the Dick Van Dyke version of this. It's true.

Do they get to go back to England? Do they spend time there? Yes. They love it. So, yeah. How long do they spend? Like, will you like do the thing of shipping them off for like six weeks or? No, we haven't done that yet.

That's an African thing. No, I think a lot of people do that. A lot of people on the world. Ship off kids for six weeks? Yeah, like in the country where they come from. Yeah, people who come from another country. It doesn't matter where. they'll be like, oh, my kids are going to Colombia for six weeks or they're going to go back to South Africa for six.

They're going to go back to England for like the summer period. What are they hoping it's going to do? Oh, because summers are so long here. Yes, that's the thing. Because we have like in our summer holidays in England, we're like five weeks, five and a half. No, no, here's summers in total. It's months. Months and months.

Yeah. So people will send their kids if they come from place and they can send their kids back. They'll just be like, oh, the kids are back in wherever. My friends, some of my friends are like, oh, the kids go to Trinidad and they go there for like months in the summer holidays. Oh, yeah. And it just gives them. back there, you know? So I was wondering if you do that. What does give them back? You know, they're a vibe.

You know what this is? Chiroscope. You know what this is? Come on, Eugene. So what's the longest they've gone? The dogs has only been like 10 days. It's just taking them back for a week, walking them around. But I do like, I like... Like walking them around. It is walking around because you want to see them in the places you were.

And they don't care much. No, but it was like, the thing that was most meaningful to me was, especially because of the pandemic, right, where they didn't travel as little kids, they didn't go much. So last summer I took them back. I remember taking them to Dan's house, to Kitsen's house,

and there was something very meaningful to me of seeing them on the stairs outside his house, on the couch where we would play FIFA. And to see them sitting in that place, in his world, that really made me feel like, you know, when you, as an immigrant, you've fractured, right? There are little parts of your life. everywhere. So when you, when some of those things combine, it can really give you a sense of,

oh, this makes sense. Look. That is so beautiful. Do they play FIFA? No, they haven't done yet. They don't have a phone. Yeah, but you might have a console. What do you mean? Yeah, they're not a console yet as well. They absolutely support Liverpool. That is the one thing that is non-negotiable. Oh, so you haven't given them choice. No, they can choose everything else. I wasn't given a choice. My dad said, we support Liverpool. I went, okay, that's fine. I'm, I'm going to, I always torn on this. I feel like some, I feel like parents maybe should give their kid an option to say, hey, this is the team I support. I'm going to let you watch other teams and then you decide if you also want to support this team. I did say, I technically gave him a baseball team option, but I think I did like thumb the scale. I just said, do you want to support the Mets? The New York Mets? Oh, you want to support the Mets. Oh, I want to support the Mets. There you go. Great. We got it. We got it. So you technically had a choice. You had a choice. We'll be right back after the short break.

How much of a Liverpool fan do you think you are? Like how many of your, like your thinking hours do you think are consumed? Thinking hours is such a good way to put that. Because, you know, the honest answer to that is like it's, you know, whenever your mind is at rest, it's going there. So you can really rack up the hours. Then if you're thinking about happy thoughts, sad thoughts, anxious thoughts. Like right now I'm thinking about Mo going to Afcon.

how he's going to do over there. You wish him well? I do wish him well. Of course, I wish him well. Yeah. I also wish he didn't have to go. Because now I feel like he just got back to a good place with the team. Wait, you wish he doesn't go and represent the continent that he comes from.

Don't you put that. You see you trying to stop beef. You see you. You see you. You see you now. Wait. Is this because I took you to pickleball? Just say it, Eugene.

Don't, don't, don't, don't. Four hour marathon. Is that. No, no, no. No, no. You know why. I'm going to get Trevor to declare war on Egypt. No, we just got back to

I wish the timing was different because we just got like it felt like Oh, him, his smile, the team, the coach, the win We needed it But maybe doesn't he need to go home to refresh and come back happier? I don't know if Fcon refreshes you. Here's my confusion. John, on a selfish level, wait before you go

Yeah Can you do an episode on Manchester City? What about the fact it's a beautiful team built on blood money? My man Have you heard about Herod selling Michael Jackson? I can't come with it. Now we're not going to take that back. Retracts.

No, what were you going to ask him? No, no, I was going to say, whenever I watch people who love football, especially top-level football, I'm thinking to myself, in that field, there's a bunch of foreigners. Right? With their lives, who've left their homes,

who get incentivized very well to play for this team, for our amusement and the sponsors, obviously, payback. but life happens, they get injuries, they move on, the most other thing happens. So in all this time of being a fan of an individual inside a team institution, you've never thought they'll have to one day be put to pasture

or move on to some other things? No, I think you know it's ephemeral, right? Which is why you try and enjoy it so much when it's happening. You don't expect victory or pleasure from football. You kind of know it's a much more complicated relationship And you know that you should take the joy when you get it and you should absorb the stress, the anxiety and the misery when it comes. You know that even with Mo, you know, we love this guy, Yerkin Kopp, right?

The coach. Yeah, it was clear that was never going to last forever. That was not going to be like a long Alex Ferguson run. He's always just done these 10 years. One of the many, many ways in which he's a unique man is you would have these unique, intense periods with the club. So you knew it was not going to be forever, which is why it meant every second of it meant so much, because you know it's going to come to a close. And I think I felt the same with Mo.

You know it's when you know that something's not going to last forever, all you want is the best possible ending for the thing that's meant so much to you. And you want that for him as well. He deserves a good ending to Liverpool whenever that ending is. And it shouldn't be now because this would not be one. What would a good ending look like for? Because I love, I love Mosala. I love his new haircut. I love his fade.

I think he's evolved quite well with it. So I'm like, okay, this man changed his hairstyle. He's changed many people's life. How would you like his career to end? You led with, you led with that with Mosala. You led with his, he changed his haircut. He changed so many lives. First for him.

What an amazing thing. Sure. First for him, then for you all. You say, Mutuals are being changed right now in Egypt. A guy who single-handedly changed how Muslims were viewed. He goes, yeah, he changed his hair that one time. And I think at the end of the day, that's what we will remember.

It was big and then it was tight. Anyway, Mo, thanks for everything you've done. That literally sounds like how Trump would describe it. If you asked Trump, if you... Yes. Because you know, like, he never admits that he doesn't know anything. So if you said, President Trump, what do you think about the most hard thing? He'd be like, you know, Mo Salah did a lot of things,

a lot of things. Big guy, did a lot of things. had the hair, changed the hair, changed the hair. That's right, it was big. Changed a lot of lives. A lot of lives changed the hair. It was big. Then it became small.

Yeah. And it became small. I love a good guy. New York artists are losing their minds, having to alter the... He's going bald, one trip to Turkey. We all know what he did. We all know what he did. What would they help?

Because I watched the game over the weekend where he did that assist. And then the goal went in. And then my friends were happy. Yes. They were all jubilant. And I was happy with them because I'm that kind of guy. You know, I've shared my friend's pleasure.

But then when you say you want an ending for him that's befitting. Yeah, but that was what I was worried about. Without that game, I was worried that we were hurtling to the opposite of that. We were hurtling towards an ugly ending that was in no way representative of everything that he's done for that club and for his head. And him not starting the game, obviously, made it worse, right? It made it much worse because I think he felt like he had been snubbed, that he was not

his work, what he had done. His contribution. His contribution, follically and with football. Follocals matter. was not being respected. I don't know that he was entirely wrong about that to me. He wasn't playing particularly well, but I think it did.

It was not wrong to infer a level of disrespect from it. So, yeah, I was desperate for that situation to be handled and diffused because the idea of it ending that way would have hurt, I think, lastingly. He is a singular figure. And it feels like, generally statues should not be built for footballers, not just because they can be embarrassingly bad like that one, Ronaldo won.

But because... I even know that one. Footballers are over... They are overpraised in so many ways, but what Mo has done transcends football, how he carries himself as a human being, transcends football, and I just didn't want it to end badly.

And I hope it doesn't now. Yeah, I would say it like this, it's whether it's sports or not, Just think about the moment you get to say goodbye to the thing that you are part of. And the thing that you are part of turning into a success. Whether you're at your office and you're leaving. It's nice to be able to have the cake, have everyone come around, say goodbye, versus people come in on Monday and you're just not there.

What happened? Yeah, gone. Where's the desk? Gone. That's not an ending. That's what it felt like it was about to be, by the way. And that felt wrong. That felt like there were going to be hard questions to answer if that was the way.

Yeah, no, it wasn't going to be. Because he definitely deserves much more than that. I actually, he was here in New York for the time 100. Wait, you were there that night too? Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was. No, I was there. Yes.

He was there. He had a game like on Tuesday. Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't. But we, wait, because we went to a game. I remember the game that we went to. Do you remember the game that we were standing backstage?

Oh, yeah. Oh, that was. The memories are flooding back. You know, it was, because I was, it was my one time that I was, I didn't have any, I have nothing to say to Yerken Club, I just wanted to see him. Then Big Verge, he walks out, he sees Trevor, says, Trevor looks at me and he says, all right, Zazu, I went, excuse me? Excuse me, Verge?

Do you, do you, do you, did you know that I'm the new Zazu? Or do you think I'm Rowan Atkins? I'll take either, by the, by the, I'm happy with either. When I was with Mo at the time 100, I remember I was trying to say to him what he meant to me, stumbling my way through it. And he's like listening in his patient way. And then he said, do you know Calisi? What?

Mother of dragons. Yeah. Oh my goodness. And he said, Calisi's over there. Can you please introduce me to Cali. Man. Mo. Oh, man.

If that's what you want, then I will give that to you. That will be my gift to you. What did you do? Mo? Kalesi Mother of Jaggins. Kalee Mother of Jagans. Mo. I genuinely love how in life we all have,

do you know what I mean? You're there going, nothing could be bigger than Mo Salah in this room. Yes. Yes. And Mo Salah is going, I hear you, British man. But.

I, I hear you. I tolerate you. Do you know Kalisi? Yeah. Because it goes to your point because... I want to be the stepfather of dragons. Yeah, but also, in my world, I'm going... I can only assume that the games are not to him, what the games are to us.

Oh, of course. Yeah. So when you're like, oh, what you mean to me and what you... Yeah. I'm sure someone has done that to you as well. They've come up and be like, hey, John, can I just say everything you've done in my life and what have I done? And now you're just standing at it.

I look at them and say, do you know, Paulie Walnut? And they're just like, you know. How many seasons have you been running now? How many years has it been? 13. Shoo. Do you see yourself going? I would like.

What would you like your ending to be? I'll go to the Saudi League, probably. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? Yeah. It feels like there's a Saudi league for comedians now. So yeah, I'll go there. I tell you. How amazing that would be

is just seeing you there pop up randomly one day just probably full on come out and just be like, Riyadh, let's talk about the best city in the world. They're just like, John, what happened? They got to you, they got to you. Oh, man. Because it must be, I don't know what this is like

from your side. I remember for me, in many ways, I think I felt the feeling that you were talking about of impermanence, always with the daily show because in my head it was always John Stewart's show Does that make sense? Does it make sense?

I was like, I know who's car this is I totally agree I just know how to drive it well You know what I mean? It's like living in your parents' house Completely, it was always your parents' house But I was like yeah, yeah And everyone was like, oh, it's you've made it yours

I was like no no, I've put some of my furniture But this is my parents' house In my brain You know So and because Because John was my mentor you know, as I call it my Jewish Yoda. It never felt like it was in his house.

So I'd go like, hey, John, I remember once when I even asked him, I was like, hey, how do the guest interview, it's so short. What are you trying to do there? And he said, oh, full five minutes. Oh, God. That's all he said. I was like, oh, because I'm really struggling to get to the crux of somebody in this like four, five minutes segment.

What are you trying to do there? And he was like, oh, I was trying to fill five minutes. I could not do those things. That was the one part of that job I could never do. It was talk to someone I had no interest in whatsoever. So it was the actors was the problem for me. Yeah, you struggle with that. Oh, man, that was tough.

Yeah, you struggle with that. It was, I just, I ran out of things to say so quickly. I remember once, I was talking to one actor. And I would look at Spinney sometimes, the floor manager to see, like, he would say, how long are you got left? And I looked over to him as if say, are we good? And he said, you've been going one minute. 60 human sexans And I was all out of questions

Is that why you just cut guests out of your show? Yeah, it was. We built a... Because you used to... Remember, you had a guest section. We had a guest area. Yeah, yeah, I remember the guest area. The whole...

First season, you had the guest area. Yes, because it felt like you were supposed to... Have a guest. Have a guest. That was all the only thing I knew about America Late Night shows... You have to have a guest. Anything can happen, but there has to be a guest. There's got to be someone else.

And to their credit, HBO, after our two test shows that we did, just said, you know, you don't have to have someone. You don't have to talk to anyone at the end if you want. You can just like... Was it that bad? One, I think it was that bad. I think it genuinely was that bad. And two, that changed everything for me.

Like, oh, I can have that six minutes and we can make the story longer. Oh, I'll do that in a second. Yeah. And so that was the thing I'm massively grateful for them to kind of save me from. myself because otherwise I absolutely felt like and you have to have a guest every week. But I think you had a good question. And I did not want that. Sorry, sorry, John.

You had a good question there about how you'd want to see your ending because I think. Sorry. I have sympathy for sports people. They give so much of their lives. They start very, very early. Yes, that's so difficult. They miss so many milestones. That's all they know for such a long time.

I sometimes wish for them that wouldn't they want to retire at their prime of their human lives, not of their sporting lives, where they can have families. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They can also be rubbed out of the zeitgeist of, of, of, that side of their life and then people will not recognize or know them as much, you know? So don't you wish that for more? It must be so difficult. It must be so difficult for him to have humus.

Because it's amazing to think that that part of your, your whole life has been building this one thing, it's over and you're 37 years old. That's a young age to be to retire for everything to have stopped. It's no wonder that there can be big problems in terms of what you want the rest of your life to functionally be. And that, that thing, the idea of it slipping through your fingers, something that, that came so naturally to you since you were three years old. And all of a sudden you realize when you are the best in any environment that you're in,

to all of a sudden feel it fading away. I cannot imagine how that must feel. I remember talking once to Joe Dumas. He was a basketball player with the Detroit Pistons. Really fascinating, interesting guy. And he was talking about towards the end of his career, Kobe Bryant started playing. And so he was 18, I think, when he started playing, which is young for American sports. It's not for football, but for American sports.

He's young. And he said he could feel him standing off him. And he would have been thinking about, oh, when am I going to retire anyway? He could feel the first time, you're not playing properly against me. You're treating me with respect. Oh, no.

I'm done. He said he went back to his wife that night when this is my last year. I've got to be done. And he said he was lucky that he had enough money so that he didn't need to play beyond. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The point that was that natural end,

which I think, again, it's not the case with lots of athletes, which is, oh, I'll need to do three more because I need the money. So it must be incredibly difficult. So could you see yourself doing anything else? Oh, I didn't want to do anything else. That's what I mean.

It goes back to that springboard thing with a day show. No, but that's what I mean. That's what I'm saying, is there anything you could see yourself doing? This is my favorite thing. It's not, I'm so happy for you. I don't want to do something. Yeah, this is what I like them. I am genuinely so happy for you.

No, because what I was saying about the temporary thing for me was, I never thought it was my forever thing. I thought maybe it would be like two months or three months. Yeah, right. Or two years or three years. But I never assume that it was. And then it's like one thing led to another, one thing led to another. And then it's a pandemic.

Then it's like, where you're going in a pandemic? Now you're staying in the pandemic. Yeah. But I never assumed that this would be for, but for you to say that, I actually love that for you. There's so few people in the world, I think, who can say, I'm doing the thing that is my favorite thing to do in the whole world. It's so much fun. It's, because it's, you know, it's the best kind of trouble.

It was the trouble that I love so much and you're doing it collectively so you're all in trouble together. It's so fun. And it was a real relief during the pandemic. How did you feel during the pandemic? It was really difficult, like, just doing a show at home, keeping everyone employed and like performing jokes to silence.

But I worry a lot about where my head would have gone without it. I feel for the stand-ups who all of a sudden, like, I don't know when you can do this again. That's a hard daily rhythm of your life to have taken away. During the pandemic, how do I... So I think there were stages. The first stage was, it was like the fun and it was the experimentation of it all. It's exploration.

School closed. Yeah, but... Because remember, they said it was going to be 21 days. And everyone could use 21 days. You remember this? Yes. I'll never forget the 21 days. So...

That was always bullshit. Yeah, that was a lot. In the lead-up. in the lead up to this, right? I remember saying to someone on the technical team at the Daily Show, I said, hey, if we needed to, could we film the show from home? You know, because things were starting to shut down, Spain, Italy was shutting down. I was like, could we, and they were like, well, we're not going to get shut down.

That doesn't happen in America. It might happen in Europe. It won't happen in America. I was like, no, no, but could we shoot the show from home? They were like, it's not possible. So I spoke to David Meyer, now directed at the Daily Show. And I was like, David, do you think we can? could do this. And he's like, oh, well, I mean, he's like, I guess technically, there's like a way we

could do this. And he's like, figure out all these things. And it's like, I guess we could do it. So we planned out this whole system for what might possibly happen if it were to happen. So when it happened, I was, I was like, oh, wow, we get to test out this thing for 21 days. Let's see how it goes for 21 days. You know what I mean? And then, you know, it was the countdown to 21 days. So I was having a lot of fun. It was just school holidays. Right. And then the second phase was, Oh shit. People are die. Yeah, in New York.

Remember, there was the body bags in Central Park. So that was the thing for me that was difficult because when you're doing stand-up, you can at least infer tone from a room. Yeah, you can. And it's, it was, I found it very hard to know what kind of jokes are going to feel remotely appropriate or are going to be wanted when CNN has a death count in the corner of the screen that's going up. Like there's nothing to cue you.

No. The tone, you're just talking to yourself. That's one of the key parts of comedy I find is being part of the society you're doing the comedy in. There's very little comedy that exists in a vacuum. But you are doing it with people for people. And so you, this was the one moment where there was one point where I remember sitting there going, is that a joke? Like literally things would come out of my mouth and I'd be like, I don't know if these are jokes anymore.

I genuinely don't know. Some of them are, some of them aren't. I don't know if they're funny. I don't know if they're not funny. Because there's no, do you know what I mean? There's nothing to that. There's no feedback. There's no interaction.

Yeah. So you could just, we could be like, man, it's so great. I just imagine you being like an old man doing your show. Is that what you want? Do I want to be just an old man ranting about systemic problems in America? Yeah, probably. I'll probably be there. And it doesn't have to be on television.

It can just be in the corner of an old people's home. I'll just be gathering people over and saying I need you to listen to what I have to say about the Ugandan election going up It's just be like John Oliver in the corner People getting great He's like catheters And it's like oh boy here we go John

He's like you probably think it's just a thing That you wear inside your pants to help you feed I know this move Here we go And it's like you know everyone in the lounge It's like oh what's John And someone like shut up this is interesting Tell me how the old age home is screwing me over John

It sounds dark He might do something dumb at the end of it's going to bring it up but you know what you know what you did and I hope people are giving you flowers for this it's not just like the awards you created like a new thing you do realize that

I don't know but I wanted I was very very conscious of not doing it because of John's thing right we did not want to just do John's thing because that felt like stealing right yeah yeah well that's he did that yes so it feels like our responsibility

to take what we learned with him and develop it, stretch it, right? See what you can do with it in a different form. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we were taking very much those parts, as we were saying at the start, those ingredients and the parts of that process and trying to use that to build something meaningfully different.

And at the end of the day, it is still just a guy behind a desk talking. So I know that obviously. I mean, but sort of the news. And it's graphics over the shoulder because that's kind of the best way for you to see it. But that's like that's different. In general, it felt like what we wanted to build was something very, very different. And it is very different. And I hope we have done that.

Yes. No, no, it is. It is. And congratulations. And thank you. You know, I'm sure I've said this to you before, but thank you. Because like, I feel like because of you, you know, I was able to do so. Like walked so you could run.

Is that what you're about to say? Yeah. You colonized so that I could live. Let's put it that way. Thank you, John Oliver. And coming from a South African, you're welcome. Thank you, John Oliver. colonizing late night so that I

So basically what he said is You bought them The fake vase So that he brought me You brought me over on a ship John So that I could be in a land That wasn't my own

For a hero's buyer That's right You broke me in And because of you John I was able to do well An African was able to come to America So we're good now

We're good? We're good? No The patina is still there No man for real Thank you John Thanks for joining us It was really fun.

Oh, by the way, are you going to go to the World Cup? Can you go? I would love to go. I would love to go. I don't know if I will be let in. I mean, I was allowed to go in South Africa. What do you mean? You went to Rustenberg?

No, no, no, but. Rustenburg. That was the stupidest part of the World Cup was the fact they put games in Rustenburg, which didn't function really. You know, ironically, that was the first story I did when I started doing Countdown 2010. Really? Yeah, when they were starting to build a stadium. Royal Barfucking Stadium, right in Puking.

Yes, right in the platinum. It didn't have anything. It's just a mining town that they were just going to get three games. They were going to build this stadium. We got there. The scoreboards didn't work. They were funneling all the fans in through the same entry. Like, oh, you don't want to do that.

There's no plan, huh, guys? Absolutely no plan. Which team was camp there again? I don't know who was camp. Every team was assigned. England played the United States there. Yeah. Yeah, there was one team that was camp there.

There was one team that was camped there. Yeah. But this was. pre-you're like FIFA beefs is what I mean. Oh, you're right. Oh, that's right. You have FIFA. This guy is the king of FIFA.

He's done multi-series, multiple parts on FIFA. I knew there was something about you. If I was Kendrick, FIFA am I Drake? Damn. So basically, bitch, don't kill your vibe. No, but I'm being serious. So, because did you go to Qatar? No, I did not go to Qatar.

Okay. So you go. I took shit. I was not walking. into that trap. I talked about shit about FIFA and the Qatari government. You would have been fine. Can I tell you something? Can I tell you

something? The best time to go to any country is when the World Cup is there. Oh, yes. I've only been to Russia once in my life. Yeah. And it was during the World Cup. Because I knew the only thing you should fear more than the Russian government is FIFA. FIFA was going to keep me safe. FIFA, let me tell you something. Do you remember during the 2010 World Cup in South Africa? Do you remember what our crime rate was? Zir.

Exactly. Why? FIFA does not... Remember they had their own courts? They had mobile police stations. That's right. You have FIFA laws with a certain distance around. Yo, let me tell you something.

Get all those vendors kicked out? FIFA does not mess around. So what I'm saying is you're technically... Because they can't have it. That's something happened to John Oliver. Wait, so your beef with them stops you from attending any of their... No, I'm asking if it does. Okay, yeah.

You should have gone to Qatar. I think I should be allowed to attend. I live here. No, no. No, no. I live here. I think I should. allowed to go. You should go to the game. Yeah, I think I want that for you. England's going.

You should go. Yeah? Do you think this is the one? Oh, no. It's coming home. I don't think I will ever think this is the one thing. It's coming home. No, I've been heard too many times. Yeah, but John, this is one of the best teams in terms of balance? No, in terms of balance. I've heard this every four years. But you are still right. It's true every four years. Yeah. I'll tell you what happened. As someone who watched it in Qatar, you know what I think happened in that one game? Yeah. Southgate was the coach, right? I just think his problem was when he got the, when he was one-nil up. He was more worried about losing the game. You're always worried when England go up too early.

When England went one-nil up against Brazil, you're like, this happened too quickly. The story of the empire. They were up too early and then look what happened. That was all we were really guilty of was doing too much too soon. And it assorted other things. But yeah, I think the problem with England

is going to be that it's just we're at the point now where You're right, the team is really well balanced. Tugel's a really good manager. But we're at the point of the season now where every injury is meaningful, right? Okay, this is true.

From January on, it's all like, oh, we're all going to learn, like we do every four years. What's the recovery time for a metatarsum? Yes. It can be like, I remember when Beckham broke his metastastardt. Oh, yes. On the news in England, they're like, it is this bone of the foot.

Like making people qualify podiatrist. It'll heal. heel in about three and a half weeks, he'll then be able to put pressure on it. Then he can start bending it. So maybe by the quarterfinals, he'll be back to full strength. Okay, but here's a question I have about this. Why is it that the English media, and this is just my, like, my observation of it, why does the English media give the English team so much shit and then get so pissed off

when they, like they don't seem to support them. No, no, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, but more than that, yo, the English media, they expect them to win. It's a deep level of entitlement, which is that every World Cup is England's, unless you allow another country to take it away from you. That is the kind of tone of the British press.

But then they shit on them so hard. They give them so much shit. They play scared. You would think there's like a moment in time where the press would go, we're behind you fully, don't worry. No. But instead, no, why do they do that?

I don't know. I think there's two things going on. One, I think they are, you can be terrified to make your mistake because you've seen the examples that have been made of people. You've seen effigies of Beckham hanging outside of his family's house. Right.

So you do not want to be the one that misses a penalty. Yes. You've seen what happens. So you see what happens to Saka? Of course. That's right. Southgate himself, he knew. He knew.

He missed a penalty. He knew the fact it upends your entire life. That is a monumental amount of responsibility to feel the failure in a moment. Yeah. Before you can even contemplate success. Plus, back then, those. teams were so siloed, the players were so, they did not interact with it. Yeah, they didn't at all.

That was an old, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very interesting now, hearing them talk, because you see them on podcast talking in a way that you wouldn't. You get, you see players say, oh, yeah, we didn't really, you see Rio talking to Gerard. We didn't really hang out. I didn't really know anything about you. That's the old players, right? Now they go on vacation together. No, now they go on vacation together.

They're friends. Back then, but I think that comes with a level of regret because it's like, oh, we could have really done something together. But I was suspicious of you. You were suspicious of me. Neither of us like Frank Lampart. A few players have told me... It's...

Probably the agents were fueling the foods as well. That must come with real regret, but I think it's just the way things were at the time. A few players have told me, social media changed that. Oh, really? Yeah, like a few players, I asked a few players,

I was like, yo, I feel like there was a time when one, you know, a Manchester United player would never be friends with a mancity, Liverpool, Arsenal. Never. Now I see you guys on vacation. I see you in clubs, in Miccanosa.

And he said, social media. He said, it used to be that the only images you got of that person were like from the official games. Yeah, in combat mode. Whereas now you see a clip of them. You see them doing cool things. And you're like, oh, I like this person. And I remember, like, Marcello was a fan of Alfonso Davies.

And Davies was like, wait, the Marcello, the greatest left back in my life. And Marcello was like, I think you're the greatest new left back ever. And all of a sudden they became friends. And so you now have these like cross-teens. cross-generational links that couldn't be formed but because of social media. So Facebook is good. I do find it so interesting watching them talk now. The kind of watching the players that we love growing up,

looking back on that time. Oh yeah, they're very... With regret or just talking or just reminiscing about those moments that you grow up with is the first time. I think the hardest I laughed this year was there's a start. You know, Beckham and Gary Neville do that, Solford, that series of Welcome to Solford videos. There's just Beckham and Neville in the back.

back of a town car driving through Manchester and they're just sitting there like just like two friends who've grown up together which they have and Beckham says hey Gary do you remember that time you tried to lob Buffon in the Champions League and never looked back and what do you mean tried a perfect exchange between those two I think what you've just explained is the happy ending of all football fans social media and television and these kind of programs allow you to have a life with them after the football. Yeah, you're not wrong. So they won't disappear into the ether and you'll never hear of them again or

it has given them a sense of. Yeah. You will still see them functional and living. You will still see them functional and living. It's that classic thing with social media, though, isn't it? Like what it gives with one handle take away with the other. Because like, yes, they can be more, they can present themselves to society as a more well-rounded human being and they can have the most horrendous things said to them

relentlessly online. That is at least in the past, you could hear it, you could tune it out, but it was fundamentally done. Yeah, it doesn't follow you home. For them to sit there in their phone, that is for us. Morata talked about that, Alvaro Marata. Yeah, he talked about how like when things weren't going well for him, I think it was at Madrid, but he said he just couldn't get off the phone

and he would see people just saying these things. And I used to go, just turn off the phone. But if you grew up in that generation. Yeah, that doesn't apply. You play a shit game. You go home and the fans are still with you. Fans are with you on the couch. Fans are with you on the couch.

Yeah. Those aren't like those are your, that's your team. The people wearing your shit, shitting on you the hardest. Yeah, it must be very, very difficult. That's what I discover whenever I watched American television, especially sports channels like ESPN, I see how these ex-football players. I think people who love Tom Brady, see him more now than they've ever seen him when he plays because there will be a match and they will play and that will be it.

But now they get to hear his opinions. They get to see him. they get to, in fact, feel like they're interacting with him. That's what you can retire. You can retire into podcasts. Come and join us when you retire. Oh, yeah, there's a bit that we'll just sit around and just reminisce about the daily show episode. That's what we do.

Yo, man, this has been fun, John. Thank you, man. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaziamen, and Jess Hackle, Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?