What Now? with Trevor Noah - Mayor Karen Bass [VIDEO]

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

Trevor sits down with Los Angeles mayor Karen Bass on the anniversary of her first year in office. In 2022, Bass upset a well-financed opponent to win the election and return to the city where her activism began. Mayor Bass discusses her work as a high school student on Bobby Kennedy’s campaign, why she cut a London trip short because of Angela Davis, LA’s homeless crisis, and whether she’d ever run for President. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So make every Wednesday a whopper Wednesday. Only at Burger King, where you rule. where you rule. Happy Mayor of Los Angeles, Karen Basté, everybody. Happy Karen Basté. Happy Karen Basté. I love speaking to mayors because after years and years

of speaking to politicians, I have been told by, I would say like the majority of politicians, that mayors have the most direct impact on your life. Like if you live in a city, a mayor has more of an impact on your life than the president of your country does. And most people don't think this. Most people are out there in the streets, especially in America. I've noticed like in America, it's all about national politics. Christiana, I feel like of all of us, you have the highest stake in this conversation because you are a resident of Los Angeles. I do. And you know, I've had some experience with mayors. Boris Johnson was the

mayor of London and then became the prime minister. So I have a lot of feelings. I've had the worst mayors. I had de Blasio and Boris Johnson and Karen. I have no view of it right now because she's currently reigning as the mayor. I want to speak to her about, I mean, everything, obviously. But, you know, L.A. right now, I think one of the big topics, obviously, is homelessness. Yeah. Yeah. I find that people are more angry at homeless people than they are

at the situations that make people homeless they make it seem like people leave home kiss their family and they're like alright honey I'm off to be homeless see you soon do you know what I mean and it's like no one wants to be homeless you know how you know that nobody you know how you know nobody wants to be homeless

it's because all homeless people try to build homes have you ever noticed that yeah especially like in LA it's such an expensive city I think I've I've only had the misfortune and fortune of living in really expensive places London New York LA and this LA housing there's an affordable housing crisis here um and it's just like it's no surprise that there are people who have full-time jobs and they live in their cars like that that's the thing that like blows my mind I'm like you have people who are doing all the right things right they went to school they got a job or they went they have a

trade like they are contributing to society and they still can't afford an apartment and even if you're not contributing to society I don't believe that you should have to live on the street. You understand? Like, that's my view of the social contract. And it's just, LA is terrifyingly expensive. LA is a place where, like,

rich people are nervous. So that makes you think, like, what is going on here? And I don't know, how does a mayor fix that? Because I think LA, in many ways, starts to suffer from

all of the bigger problems that America has federally sometimes. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I hear what you're saying. If it comes up while you're talking about the homelessness and everything, I had two questions, if I could sneak into. It depends on what they are, Josh, but go ahead. Okay. Well, one is about how you balance or if you can balance making illegal something that can inevitably happen to a person. To me, the way that we've in America made homelessness illegal is like tantamount to making becoming old illegal. Yeah. But it's an inevitability under certain circumstances. Yeah. It is something that is completely out of your control.

Yeah. And then the second thing is about if she feels the need or thinks there will be a need to override or overpower the people in the way that a lot of LA residents end up voting against their own interests because they're worried about their property value. They don't want this piece of land becoming a single family housing or whatever. So then eventually someone may have to step in and be like, I know that you think you're doing what's best for you, but it's ruining everything. And if she thinks the state should have that type of power if she thinks she'll have to do anything like that because it's gonna keep getting worse you know it's a it's a it's the classic case of

nimbyism right not in my backyard yes exactly and it's so easy to become that person trevor oh it is it is but i'm like lewis who's that who's that walking down the street can you go and check i'm like who stole our lemons someone's been stealing my lemons from my lemon tree we have a lemon thief and they take them in like bundles and i'm like you just have to ask just ask me i'd give you my lemons there's a lemon thief and i'm like speaking to the neighbors about it and i'm like i'm supposed to be a socialist and i'm getting furious about lemons so yeah the nimbyism it happens it comes to all a socialist and I'm getting furious about lemons. So yeah, the NIMBYism, it happens. It comes to all of us.

It does. It does come to all of us. Yes. It's funny. I used to steal lemons all the time. So, well, not steal, actually. I used to walk around neighborhoods with my mom when I was younger. And we would find all the streets where people had fruit trees.

And all we would do is just take, it was like blackberries. So you would steal people's fruit? Blackberries, apples, lemons, limes, peaches, anything that we could find hanging. We didn't even think of it as stealing. It is a tree that is growing. No, no. The thing is, they take a lot of the lemons, Trevor.

They take like 10 lemons at a time. And if you ask me, I will give them to you. Wait, wait. How do you know it's one person taking 10 lemons and not 10 people taking one lemon? That's a good point. But my spirit tells me it's one person taking a bunch of lemons. I just, on a spiritual level. You know, Nigerians, you know when a thief...

You can feel it. You can feel something inside you. You say, thief-o. I just, on a spiritual level, you know, Nigerians, you know, you know, you can feel it. You can feel something, something inside you. You say, people. I just know it. I just know it. Maybe, listen, people knock on the door and ask. If you ask, take it. I have never thought an owner of a lemon tree cares about the lemons on it.

I know. I know. I mean, the fact that they even say like, if life gives you lemons, make lemon, like the, you know what I mean? That tells you lemons themselves already, not a a sought after produce okay so think about think about what that phrase even means it's like if life gives you lemons if life brings the worst to you try make something good out of it and then christiana's they're fighting like this i'm just i'm just i'm just a grateful person even for the lemons in my life. When I was growing up in the township in South Africa, nobody had anything.

And what I mean by that is you had the very bare minimum. Everyone had a basic structure. Sometimes you didn't have running water inside the house. So there was a shared tap or faucet that connected a few houses. There were outdoor toilets, et cetera. Everyone had nothing, the bare minimum. And because of that, everyone shared everything with everyone. And what I mean by that is like space, like someone would walk through your yard to get to another yard. And it was just like, yeah, this is the shortest way possible. So you would walk through your neighbor's backyards all the time

and you just greet people. Hello, hello, hello, hello. It was like, yeah, because I mean, what do you, of course, you need to move through my space to get to another space and it's convenient. I get that. And there were all of these instances where people were, quote unquote, infringing on another person's space, but it wasn't felt that way.

It wasn't treated that way. And interestingly, you'd see one family in the neighborhood, they would start to do well. You know, a parent of theirs would get a job in the city or whatever it was, and then they would build a wall. It would be the first thing they'd build around their house. The houses had no walls and then there'd be a wall. And then they would put like spikes on the top of their wall so that you couldn't climb over the wall. And then they would get a car at some point.

And then they would get, and it's amazing how as the people got more money, they became more and more isolated from the community around them. They stopped speaking to people as much. They stopped getting the occasional weak tie that would meander through their yard and have a random conversation with them. Their children played in their yard and were never in the street and all of a sudden became ostracized from the other kids. And it's amazing to me how in this machine that we live in, we've all been conditioned and we've all been taught to get as

much as possible but then in that you know like like the ring from lord of the rings once you have your precious you you you you are terrified of sharing it with anyone or anyone taking it from you and so you have to become like a like a golem that goes into a cave and hides with your precious and we don't realize what we lose, funny enough. And by the way, I'm guilty of it in many ways. I think many of us are. But you take for granted what you lose. You take for granted the fact that you're constantly not with the people around you because you're constantly afraid that they will want to take the toasters in your garage.

When in fact, you don't need that toaster. You didn't care for that toaster. And the thing you actually need in your life is community and somebody to look after your kids who you actually like who you didn't hire from an app who is forced to be on that app because they also don't have it's just like it's just like a you're speaking my language it's funny lewis walks with obie every day to school so he does about 10 000 steps a day which in la makes him a crazy person because no one really does in la every time we walk in we run into friends who are driving they're like why are you walking and lewis is like well this is the way we see people and we see the world and we get to know our neighbors and in

a car-centric city like this that where your friends can live completely across town it's really isolating and there aren't many ways to actually find that community you're talking about you know what I mean because you're always in your car or you're always at work and then you go and buy something from the supermarket and then you come home yes and I it's something I've been like oh I'm in LA I know all these people but I never get to see them and it's because like everyone's in their own mini fortress and if you want to go on a date you have to hire a babysitter through an app who may quit two weeks later not that that happened to me but maybe it happened to me yeah but yeah okay we're gonna i'm

gonna i'm gonna jump get ready for the mayor we're gonna talk about uh homelessness crime and what it is like being the first woman i think and then the second African-American mayor in L.A., which is pretty wild. It's crazy that in 2023 there are still first anythings. Yeah. But let's get into it. Mayor Karen Bass. Mr. Trevor Noah. Well, well, well.

How are you? Good. We are you? Good. We're rolling? Oh, okay. Then we can jump into it. I guess jumping straight into it in the most apt way possible. Congratulations. You just celebrated one year.

Yes. Of being the mayor of Los Angeles. Yes, it has been an exhilarating year. It really has. How many moments have you regretted taking the job? You know what? I haven't. You haven't?

I really haven't. Not even once? No. I don't know if I believe that. I will tell you, though, I wake up some mornings going, I'm a mayor? But no regrets. No. It's a massive job

It is Being a mayor of any city is a monumental task Being the mayor of Los Angeles is akin to being a governor in some places And a president in other places This is true Because of how much your job entails. Let's get into that aspect of it to help me understand. And I think for many people who will be listening to this, what is the mayor of Los Angeles tasked with doing? What is under your scope? What are

you capable of doing? What are you not capable of doing? What's the job of mayor? Well, let me give you a couple of examples. Los Angeles is one city in a county of 88 cities. Los Angeles just happens to be largest. A mayor is not in charge of schools. The mayor is in charge of the police department and 44 other city departments. But social services like health healthcare and the jails and other poverty-related programs, I'm not in charge of. So I work in conjunction with the county. Now, the good news for me is that because I've been involved in politics, not just as elected office, but I'm being on the ground as an organizer and activist, I have deep long-term relationships with everybody on every level. So that has helped me tremendously. It's funny you say not schools particularly. I cannot tell you how many people have said to me, you're speaking to the mayor,

talk to her about the schools. Talk to her about the schools. I'm happy to talk about them, but I have no authority. You have no authority over them. No, I do not. Do you think people know what you have authority over and what you don't absolutely not but i'm going to tell you something trevor this is my third office i was in the state office and the federal office people have no idea what any of these offices do so whenever i have a community meeting i have to spend the first half hour doing civics i wonder who do you who do you think we should blame that is that is that

schooling is that education? No, I think it's our American culture. In what way? Because Americans are very apolitical and ahistorical. Now, ask somebody about a sports team or a celebrity and they can tell you everything. Ask them who governs the schools and who takes care of the trash and I don't know, it's the congressperson. They can tell you exactly how many home runs somebody has hit, but not who's running their neighborhood.

That's right. Your journey is, in many ways, almost, it's almost perfectly designed for you to be at this moment in your life. You know, I was reading through your history and through your life. And I mean, it's quite a story journey. When you were a young girl, your father really, I guess, inspired you and, you know, through the things that he showed you, inspired you to become an activist. You wanted to be part of changing

your world. That's not what most kids want. That's not what most kids dream of. What was it about activism that made you think, I want to get involved in that? Well, you know what, I think it was the time period, the historical time period when I grew up, where change was happening all over the country and really all over the world. So it was the civil rights movement. And as a kid, I was watching it on TV with my father. And he would explain to me what the South was like, because he was from the South. He was part of that generation that came post-World War II. And so you thought to yourself, this is it?

Absolutely. All I wanted to do was hurry up and grow up so that I could be a part of a movement. That's what I wanted to do. What was the first movement you were a part of? Really at school, you know, working as a middle school activist. And then the first campaign I worked on was Bobby Kennedy's presidential campaign. Wow. And I was in the ninth grade. Wow. What were you doing as part of the campaign? Oh, you know what I did? I signed

up my mother to be a precinct officer. Really? But I did it. She never knew. Not until many years later. So I went up and down my block. I knocked on the doors and I told them why I thought Bobby Kennedy would be the best president. And what were you saying at this age? Why did you think he'd be the best president? Well, you know, there were two things that were happening then. It was 1967-68. It was the war in Vietnam and it was the student movement and the civil rights movement. It was kind of the end of the civil rights movement, the black power movement. And I was talking about how I thought he would end the war and how I thought he would improve, you know, civil rights. And I was very passionate about it. I believed it very deeply. And then when he was assassinated, my whole world just collapsed because then I really

kind of lost faith and said, I mean, Martin Luther King was killed. Kennedy was killed and people, activists were being killed every day. Student activists, Black Panthers, you know, there were always these murders. And so that made me really kind of, for a few years, kind of lose a little hope. So I left the country when I graduated high school. I was 17. I had never been anywhere. You know, my family, I'd never been on an airplane. But I worked through school, and I I graduated on Thursday and I left the country

on Tuesday and didn't know what the heck I was doing. Where did you go? I went to London and woke up the next day in a hostel going, what did I just do? But fortunately I brought a round trip ticket, but I, cause I thought I was leaving. I mean, I'm done. You thought you were gone forever? Yeah, I did. What brought you back then? Well, fortunately, I had a round-trip ticket. But when I was over there, people were protesting to free Angela Davis. And I knew Angela Davis. I met her because she was a teacher at UCLA. And I used to ride my bicycle to UCLA and sit in her classes.

And so I felt kind of embarrassed that people around the world were— Fighting to free— To free somebody I knew. And so I felt kind of embarrassed that people around the world were... Fighting to free... To free somebody I knew. And so I went home and I said, no, I need to go home and I have to make change at home. And that's where I've been. You know, making change is a task that I think oftentimes sounds a lot easier than it is. Because I think many people want to make change. than it is because I think many people want to make change. Most people do not want to put the work in for that change to actually take place. Yeah, that's true. If I say to an activist,

what is the hardest part of being an activist? They will say to me, it's realizing how slow change actually is on the ground, how slow it actually is people talk about karen bass before she was karen bass working in state office or in on a federal level or as as mayor everyone says you were you were connected to the people right you had this affinity for the people for what was happening on the ground i guess my question is is two parts, do you think that has led to or that has been part of the reason you've been able to be successful politically? And secondly, what do you think other politicians miss by not being on the ground before they get into politics? Well, I think what a lot of people miss is their purpose. Like, why are they running for office?

Why are they there? I think a lot of people look at it as a career or they say, well, I'm running for this because I'm going to run for that. To me, I've always been driven by the issues. And I think it's always critical to leave your ego outside and stay focused on what you're trying to do. But Trevor, you hit it for why I've been happy now, because I'm back on the ground. And I'm back doing things that I was trying to do really 30 years ago. But I was, you know, I was a community activist running a community organization, but I didn't have the authority or the power. We were trying to deal with homelessness in 1993. We were trying to take over motels and everybody thought we were crazy.

Was it worse back then? No, no, no, no. Homelessness then was in South Central and Skid Row. Okay. And it was probably, we didn't count, but I could guess it was probably maybe 3,000 or 4,000. And just think now in the city, not the county, in the city, it's 46,000. 46,000 in the city alone. That's right. If you add the county, you got to add another 20,000.

That's why you see tents everywhere. Before we didn't have tents, there were shopping carts. That's what homeless people did was push shopping carts. And then the grocery industry figured out the technology so they couldn't get the shopping carts. And that's changed. And that's why we see the tents now. Right. That's right. So let's talk about the issues and I guess how they're, I mean, they're inextricably intertwined with what you do now. Right. When your campaign launched, it very quickly became a national campaign that was about a local race. I don't think I've ever seen a mayoral race get the amount of attention that this race did.

You were running against caruso right and it was this race where i think he was spending i think in total he spent 100 million dollars 104 million dollars if my numbers are correct that's right on the ground that's right your campaign spent five million dollars a little more a little more how much was it exactly i raised nine million and then other people contributed five. So it was. Okay. So the, okay. So the external contributions of five. Right. Okay. But I mean, still that's, that's. Exactly right. That's a huge return versus the spending. Let's start with that. Do you think there is too much money in political races now? Oh gosh, yes. And the problem is, is that if you have personal wealth, there are no limits at all. I was subject to limits. I mean, I could only ask somebody for $1,500. So my $1,500 and he could write a $40 million check and it was, you know, he's worth $5 billion. So, you know, $100 million is, I don't know, tip money. Wow. Yeah, that's a huge difference.

Exactly. Was there a part of you that thought to yourself, what am I doing? I'm running against this guy. No. I mean, he's the guy who made The Grove. People were like, we love The Grove. I do too. Can he make all of LA The Grove? It seemed like such a wonderful proposition.

That's right. And here you were running up against what seemed like an immovable object. Right. Just grinding and going from one speech to the next, from one issue to the other. You were both talking about the same issues, but in very different ways. Right. And it seems like, I mean, the votes turned out accordingly. It seems like your message resonated with voters in a different way.

Because L.A., you know, like many cities in America and in the world, in my opinion, post-COVID, has really been dealing with an explosion of homelessness. That's right. Everybody has an opinion on this issue. Very few people have offered solutions in and around this issue. And very few people have an understanding of the issue. Well, let's start with that. What is causing this rise in homelessness? Why is it that you have, just as you said, in the city alone, 40,000 homeless people? That's right. Well, you know what? It's important to look at the categories of people that wind up unhoused. They might not be able to be in a house because their wages aren't high enough, but it also might be that they've been evicted before, their credit is bad, they were incarcerated, they might be a teenager. You know, there's 9,000 children who are unhoused with their parents.

And then there's also a lot of foster children that when they term out of foster care at 18 or 21, they have nowhere to go. Or you don't have first and last month's rent. So there's the economically unhoused. But, you know, the fastest growing sector of homeless people are senior citizens who are in their late 60s and 70s. Maybe they worked in a shopping mall all their life. No 401k, no pension. You can't live here on social security if you even have it. And then they get priced out of the rental market and they are homeless. That has to be one of the scariest stats I've read. And in many ways, one of the most pertinent i feel because when people have conversations about homelessness i i've noticed that there is oftentimes a it's almost like a

resentment that people have towards the homeless themselves well because they believe that they're homeless because of their own fault or bad decisions right but and they don't look at the circumstances i, that says something about a situation that's larger than just like people who want to take drugs and not live anywhere. Exactly. And that is a common viewpoint that everybody who is unhoused is either a drug addict or mentally ill. And of course, that does comprise some people. But you know, if I was out on the street for a couple of weeks, I can't tell you I wouldn't use drugs. And I can't tell you that my mental health wouldn't be compromised.

A lot of times it's the chicken and egg. You know how some people get addicted? They take meth to stay awake at night so they don't get assaulted. You have women suffering from domestic violence. You know, there's a lot. You have veterans. And listen to this one. This one's crazy.

A veteran winds up homeless because he or she might take veteran benefits. Then that means they make too much money to qualify for veteran housing. So they have to choose between their benefits or housing. Homeless, you have a lot of people who were formerly incarcerated, and they can't go home because their brother might be a felon, and they don't have any place to go, and nobody's going to rent to them, and no one's going to hire them. So, you know, it's a lot of circumstances that have led to the explosion. And what I describe is that, number one, is the evisceration of the social safety net that we used to have. Which was? Really bad. Well, we had better health care in terms of substance abuse and mental health. There were programs that people could be in, and L.A. used to be a heck of a lot cheaper.

This city used to be affordable. I remember that, where I worked as a young person, worked part-time, went to school, and still afforded to live on my own. You couldn't possibly do that now. So all of these reasons lead to the problem, but I also believe that really bad policy decisions were made when I started Community Coalition 32 years ago. That's when it was the war on drugs and all the laws. Instead of helping people with addiction by drug treatment,

we just locked everybody up, and then now, 30 years later, we're letting them all out to the street. So the reason why I ran, because I was perfectly happy in Congress, you know that. You interviewed me. I told you how much I loved Africa. That was my big thing. It was a hard decision to leave. But I was so afraid that if he won, that we were going to have flashbacks to 1990s and we were going to start criminalizing the very people because people get so angry. That's why it was so important for me to win and to prove that the problem was solvable by getting people out of the tents and into motels. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.

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And the first thing you did was declare a state of emergency. Correct. Now, as I understand, that gives you a breadth of power that you don't necessarily normally have. Right. And it enabled you to do things that you felt needed to be done immediately. Right. One of those, which was controversial, and I understand why, is you wanted to get as many people off the streets and into hotels. Help me understand this and help the listeners understand this concept of taking people who don't have homes, unhoused people, homeless people, and then putting them into hotels.

Whose hotels are these? Who's paying for the hotels? And why is that even considered a part of a solution? Sure. Well, you know, the interesting thing was because we all went through COVID, that's exactly what happened in COVID. So we didn't invent anything new. We learned from that experience. And guess what?

Nobody was going to hotels or motels during that time. So it was fine. So we're not putting people up in the Four Seasons. We're putting people up in the Snooty Fox. I mean, in motels that are in the community. And I think that the motel owners that didn't want anything to do with us years ago realized this was a pretty good deal. They didn't have to rent their rooms by the day or in some places by the hour. They didn't have to do that.

They had guaranteed customers, guaranteed tenants all month because we try to rent out the entire motel. And then we contract as the city with a community-based organization they provide the meals and the social services so people aren't just left there on their own they have counseling they have services and they have three meals is this is this a viable long-term solution no okay because in my head i don't think putting people in a hotel forever seems like it's gonna it work long term, even just on a cost level. Right. I think it's going to work for a few years, but we are also fast tracking the building of housing. So that's the big problem here in LA, is that for so many years, the no growth or slow growth movement restricted building housing.

And so we didn't build the housing that we need. For example, the state requires us, has required us, to build half a million units of housing in the next 10 years. Now, I don't know how we're going to make that happen, but literally we're required to do that and we will be fined if we do not accomplish that. And so is this a number that is based on how the population is projected to grow? Exactly. And also what the population's needs are now. So, for example, there's a lot of people who are not considered homeless, but there's three families living in a one-bedroom apartment. And I consider that homeless, unless they choose to live like that, and not too many people do.

They're living like that because they need three paychecks in order to pay the rent. Why is the rent so high? Because there is a severe shortage of housing. So because the no growth and slow growth movements were so successful all up and down California, the state legislature got tired of the nimbyism on a local level, started passing a lot of state laws to preempt the blocking of building. And then what I was able to do, especially after declaring a state of emergency, it did give me the extra power so I could cut through the red tape to say, let's fast forward building. So that's what I'm doing. Now we're putting people in motels, but we're also fast tracking the building. And that half a million units, I'm referring to all types of housing, not just housing for the poorest in the city. Do you think that the homeless issue that we're seeing, particularly in urban areas and particularly in democratic strongholds,

you know, democratic strongholds is a problem that is, in many ways, I feel like it could be a problem that is seen as a failing of the whole party if it isn't worked on. Because, you know, the Democratic Party for so long has said, we are the party of the people on the ground, you know, and where the Republicans have said, hey, we're about business and we're about, you know, tax breaks, et cetera, et cetera. But if you have Democratic cities that have high homeless populations, it seems like the promise is failing. It seems like, you know, the allure of the idea isn't what it's supposed to be. Do you feel like there's an extra weight on you as a mayor of Los Angeles to prop up, you know, one of the legs of the Democratic Party's table? No, I don't feel that. But I feel incredible pressure in order to get this problem solved.

Pressure from? Absolutely. From the people? Well, it's internal pressure. I mean, this is why I'm doing this. This is why I ran. I'm doing this. This is why I ran. This is why I've loved my first year because nothing gives me more pleasure than to go out to the tents where the people are, to talk to them, and then to see them three days later in a motel or a week later, you know. I remember this one woman who said she

was taking showers all day long because she was so happy that she could take a shower. You know, there's things like that that make it extremely rewarding. How many people have you moved, by the way? In our program of Inside Safe, it's been, and that's where we're getting you in a tent and moving you into a motel. Okay. It's been close to 2,000. But this year as a whole, we've moved 21,000 off the street. And there's a variety of ways we have done that. 21,000 people moved off the streets.

Right. So they've moved off the streets because we were given vouchers and we were able to get people in housing with those vouchers. That's been one of the problems. Years pass, including like last year, LA turned back thousands of vouchers to the federal government because they couldn't figure out how to use them. Some of the red tape has been insane. I'll give you two examples. Make it crazy. One is I can't let you use a voucher unless you prove income. Well, you've been in a tent for five years.

How do you prove nothing? Right. And then I can't let you use a voucher because you don't have a government-issued ID. Well, if you gave me a motel, I'd have an address where I could have a government-issued ID. So I went to the federal government to HUD, and fortunately, our great HUD secretary, Marsha Fudge, who I served in Congress with, spent months talking to them, and now they've waived that. They said, well, you know what know what i'm gonna assume you're poor enough because you've been living on the streets right so that barrier went away so that allowed people to uh to get house so it's so crazy how often you hear that as a story in

america it's like it becomes the the cycle it's it's really just chicken and the egg chicken and the egg and chicken chicken and the egg you know i i remember hearing a story of a a man who was living out of his car and he was sleeping in the car in santa monica and then because he was sleeping in the car he got fined because he got fined he now had to pay the fine he couldn't pay the fine and so then he got a summons right he got a summons to appear in court he couldn't go to court because he was going to either lose his job or go to court and so then there was a warrant out for his arrest and then now he had a warrant and now here you you have this person who is now basically going to go to jail possibly when all they were trying to do was sleep and live well he also might have gotten his car towed yeah this and he can't get his car out

which means he's now lost his car yeah which means he's lost his job which now he's in a tent so so have you have you found ways to decriminalize being homeless because it's you know um josh who who's you know one of the people on the podcast we talk about each episode before we go on he said something that i really loved which was he said it's interesting how america will criminalize something that may be inevitable and out of your control right because other crimes are an action an action that you should have been able to avoid being homeless isn't one of those how do you how do you criminalize something like that and what have you done to if you've homeless isn't one of those. How do you criminalize something like that? And what have you done to, if you've done anything to decriminalize being homeless? Well, you hit on what my concern was about my opponent. And that was my flashbacks to the

1990s, is that the level of anger and disgust in the city toward the unhoused population was so high that I was afraid if the wrong person won that they would just criminalize folks. Because there was a lot of talks about three strikes, meaning I'm going to give you two tickets, and on the third ticket, if you don't move or if you haven't disappeared, I don't know where you're supposed to go to, then I'll arrest you. Now, you get arrested, you're going to be out in five hours, and you're either going to be right back there or you'll be someplace else. It doesn't solve the problem. That was my fear. That was my drive. So I didn't care how bad the campaign got. That was my passion about winning this election. It's a tightrope to walk as mayor, I always think, you know, because you're in this interesting position where, on the one hand, you have to deal with everything that is happening.

On the other hand, you have to deal with everything that people think is happening. And the think is oftentimes more powerful than the what is. If people feel like there's more crime, then they think there's more crime. So they act accordingly, even if the crime hasn't gone up. And I wonder how you deal with that. The way I view it is, crime is an emotional issue. And if your car was stolen, there's a crime crisis. And you do not care about the data. Or if you go back to what you were saying a few minutes ago in terms of democratic cities, well, the reason why crime is up, it's because we've been too liberal and we don't enforce the law. But you could look at Republican led cities and the crime is even higher or

definitely no difference, regardless of the laws that have been passed. So people right now- Why do you think then the narrative is around urban cities and democratic cities? What do you think that is? Well, I mean, I think part of it is race. Absolutely. So you asked me the pressure I feel is the nation's second largest city. Absolutely. I feel the pressure because the perception is and it is a deliberate narrative that Republicans are good at pushing.

So look at New York, 100,000 migrants sent to New York. Well, we have buses coming into LA, but not to the extent of Chicago or New York. You can't tell me that's not done to destabilize those cities. In Chicago, you have a brand new mayor. He's been in less time than I am. He has to host the Democratic Convention in the next few months. Imagine that pressure. So some of it has been orchestrated and pushed. It's a Republican narrative. And what do we have in common with the large cities? They're predominantly people of color. And so regardless of what the crime rate is, they will say the crime is out of control in Democratic-led cities. Their murder rate is

higher. Their crime rate is higher. Well, generally, where there's more guns, there are more people being shot. I mean, I find it's a very simple stat to follow, by the way. It's not as complicated as people would think. But that doesn't mean that LA doesn't have its issues. How do you find the balance between being a mayor who is actively trying to make people feel safe, whilst at the same time acknowledging that for a long time people have felt, and beyond feeling, people have experienced over-policing that makes them feel unsafe at the very safe that you know what i mean at the very same hands of the people who are trying to quote-unquote protect them like how do you how do you find that balance because i'm sure on the one hand every time you say police

police force protect etc there's going to be a contingency of your base who says what are you doing why are you even working with the police exactly the police are the bad guys quote-unquote in many ways. And then on the other hand, you have a large part of your constituency who will say, no, why aren't you working more with the police? Why aren't you fully handing over to the police? How do you strike that balance? How do you walk the line? So one thing about a city, and I certainly have to say this to some people who come from either or perspective, it's both and.

So I set up an office of public safety. That's a traditional office, works with the police and fire, etc. But I also set up an office of community safety, which is not looking at law enforcement driven solutions. So I have always been about how do you prevent crime? So when I started Community Coalition in the 90s, the first thing we did was organize the youth component to recruit high school students so they wouldn't get involved in gangs because we had the Crips and the Bloods and a thousand homicides that particular year. So I wanted to divert young people away from gang involvement. And by the way, that was building on my own life experiences growing up because, and the Panther Party did that a lot. As a matter of fact, there was a lot of gangs involved, but they got young people involved in politics. So that's what I did. That's, I got involved when I was older in high school, then I was involved in a lot of direct

political activity, whether it was protesting the war or whatever was happening at that particular time. And so we involved a lot of high school students. And I have to tell you that two of those high school students are working for me, heading up the homeless effort, the street outreach. And they are now in their mid-40s. That is amazing. That's actually amazing. Do you think that the government, both large and small, has done a terrible job of reaching out to people? You know, because it's interesting you talk about the gangs. I've always said, and I've always been fascinated by how gangs do the very thing that governments say they are unable to do.

And that is reach out to every youth and make sure that they feel involved. There is no gang that ever says, you can't get to the kids. There's no gang that ever says, we can't get them involved. They're not interested. They go out there. They have outreach. They really just try and connect with people. And I mean, it's towards, you know, a violent cause, unfortunately.

But the essence of it is fundamentally sound. Like, what do you think the government could be doing to reach out and to connect with young people to make them feel like there's a hope that they can work towards? And, you know, what I've found over the years is that it is not difficult. It's just that we are not committed to doing it.

Because what we did is we provided a safe alternative for gangs. What a lot of people who are drawn to gangs, a lot of young people are, it's a surrogate family. It's doing what you described. It's providing you protection. It might be providing you an income. It's providing you all of these things in a negative way. Well, if you provided those things in a positive way, people would not get involved. But as a society, we refuse to invest in long-term solutions.

We always invest in law enforcement and suppression activities. But we will not address root causes. That's why I started the organization in the 90s. That's why we started the Youth Component. That's why I started the organization in the 90s. That's why we started the Youth Component. And I'm happy to say that 30-some years later, now it's been about three or four cohorts, almost generations of young people who graduate out of that program, and they become involved in some way in their communities. Now they're all over the country. And we've tracked them and stayed connected to them.

And now that program, that model has been replicated around the country. But I do not find it to be difficult. I find that we just refuse to invest the resources. When you talk about enjoying an exhilarating year of being mayor, I wonder what your most frustrating moments have been. I know you're a very positive person. But I'd love to know what you wish you could have done more of or what you wish you could have done. Like, are there other aspects of your job where you go, I wish I could do this, but I can't? Every day. But I will tell you, I wished I knew what I know now about the bureaucracy,

and I'm afraid that there's so much more I don't know. So in other words, I gave you two crazy examples, three, if you include the veterans who don't qualify, but there's a lot of internal bureaucracy that is just done because it's always been done. And that's one thing, that's one statement that makes me crazy. We do it this way because we've always done it this way. Well, how's that working out for you? 46,000 people on the street. So doesn't it make you think that maybe there's a better way of doing things? So just the inertia of, well, this is the way it's always been done. Or for people who think, well, I can't do something differently. That's where it's been helpful that I never worked for the city before. So I feel like I just parachuted in and this stuff looks crazy. And so, and I don't

believe, I mean, to me, I'm not going to violate the law, but if it's not a law, then don't tell me I can't do it. If there's people dying on the street, don't tell me I can't get them off the street. But what our policy basically had been up until now is you have to stay on the street until we build you a house. That's insanity. You asked me whether or not we would do the motels forever. No, it's way too expensive. But what our city did that New York didn't do, or rather I should say what we didn't do and New York did, New York years ago invested in long-term interim housing. And New York also passed a policy that says you have a right to housing. So we never developed long-term interim housing.

We said we don't want anybody in interim housing. We want them permanently housed. Well, that's just wonderful. But then you have this bureaucracy that it takes five years to build something. So I've been trying to dismantle all of these bureaucratic hurdles, but I had to learn them. And I wished I would have come in knowing about them. What's the one thing you want to do now? I know there's something on your list that you're working towards, something that you're trying to overturn, something you're trying to change, something you're trying to fix. What is it? So we have the people in the motels. And as I mentioned, the community-based organization

takes over. But Trevor, we have stretched these organizations way beyond their capacity. So now I'm trying to think of a new way to provide the kind of supportive services that people need. Because I don't think you stay in housing your whole life for free. That's a good deal if that was the case. But I think two years with strong supportive services should be able to mainstream most people out. But then there are people that are profoundly mentally ill who will need to be taken care of the rest of their life. So you asked me what I hope to do next is pay attention to the service delivery for the people that are in the motels and then fast track as fast as possible the building of housing it feels like there was a time in america

when mental health was maybe not spoken about more but definitely dealt with more it feels like there was a it feels like there were more mental you know hospitals there were there were places where people could go for psychiatric care it. It almost feels like that's fallen away as an idea. It's like one minute the hospitals existed, and now those hospitals have sort of been replaced by jails and prisons. Well, that's 100%. What happened was 50 years ago when Ronald Reagan was a governor, and then he goes on to be president,

basically dismantled all of the hospitals because bad things were happening in them. But we closed the hospitals, but then we made a commitment that we would build community-based services. Never happened. It never happened. So now in California, next year, voters will have an opportunity to vote for what we should have done 50 years ago. So you are 100% right. That's why us not having enough money is a lie. Because it costs way more money to incarcerate somebody than it does to take care of them. Just like you asked me about gangs.

Our country, our city, our state has refused to invest in our people, and especially people who are the poorest. We have no problem saving the world or destroying the world, however you want to look at it. I mean, if it's the defense budget, it's unlimited. We think nothing of 50 or 60 billion dollars that we're going to give to another country for, you know, a war that they're fighting or rebuilding that they need to do but we refuse to invest in the american people this is the richest country in the history of the world it is inexcusable for people to be sleeping on the street don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this If there was one part of your job that you could include,

like one thing that you currently don't have under your umbrella, but you wish you did, what would it be? What would you love to work on? Health. What aspect of it? It would be the health department. It would be my ability to control the health department and some of the county agencies. What would you change?

Well, I would definitely infuse healthcare in much bigger ways. So, for example, health is at the root of a lot of homelessness. But right now, homelessness is just viewed as a housing problem. it's and the disconnect because you know my background by the way i have a lot of lives one of my other lives was working in the emergency room yes yes as a nurse and all that pa nurse and so i do not understand it does not compute to me that you don't see the relationship between health and homelessness i met a woman uh woman in a temporary housing who became homeless because she had cancer. So she was sick. She didn't understand why she was sick.

She kept missing work. She got fired. She went to the doctor, discovered she had cancer. She didn't have healthcare either. So she wound up living in her car and then she lost her car and then she wound up living on the street. And I met her as she was on the men, you know, she was in a temporary housing. So a lot of health conditions out there. Everybody thinks about substance abuse and mental health. Yeah. But I've seen diabetes.

I've seen heart disease. I've seen high blood pressure. I've seen a lot of different health issues. Especially living in a country where people cannot afford to get sick. Right. That's one of the biggest things I've noticed people terrified of in America. You know, when I speak to random people, when I listen to stories, people will say, my greatest fear is that I will get sick in this country. Because the first thing I need to do is go see a doctor. I don't know if I can afford to do that.

Right. And then if I eventually do get to see a doctor, the thing they tell me may be the fact that I cannot afford to live anymore. And so they wait until it's too late. It's an emergency room issue. And as you, like you say, before you know it, someone's living on the street because they spent their life savings trying to save their life. Well, prior to Obama and the Affordable Care Act, health was the number one, the leading cause of bankruptcy. The leading cause. But I have to tell you something, Trevor, when I worked in healthcare, this was not the case. Healthcare was not always a for-profit industry. That changed in the 80s.

One thing that was completely considered inappropriate was advertising medicine, advertising healthcare. That wasn't legal. It's really strange when you see it. By the way, when you come from another country, every second ad in the US is like a pharmaceutical ad, a drug ad. And it's really strange. Ask your doctor about, and it's like, what? But it'll tell you 20 reasons why you'll die if you take this medicine too. Which by the way, is completely legal, meaning that it is to protect them from lawsuits. It really isn't medically based. You are somebody who all your colleagues have labeled you as two things.

They say you are tenacious and they say you are motivated. And even speaking to you, I can see you have a cautious optimism, but also a joy in trying to solve the problems. I do. Yeah, you take pleasure in solving the puzzle. Before I let you go, I'd love to know what now? I mean, we've talked a little bit about working with the homeless crisis. We've talked about law enforcement and its broader state right now. But if we look at year two, going into year three, and then your final year as

mayor, what would you hope the people of Los Angeles and maybe the people in other parts of America would see? Because I think many of the issues in LA are mirrors or different versions of issues that you see all across the country. So what would you hope to now do going from year to year? Well, I want at the end of my term, I want people to believe, to believe that the problem is solvable, meaning it won't be solved, but that they can see the way out of it. won't be solved, but that they can see the way out of it. And by the way, I mean, we have the World Cup coming in 2026, a Super Bowl in 2027, two Olympic Games in 2028. So I am hoping that that will serve as a catalyst. I mean, the reason we're getting the Olympics is because we don't need to build any major stadiums. So I'm trying to run around and get everybody to say,

when the Olympics comes, we can't hide 70,000 people, because then you're talking about the county. We can't hide them. The games aren't going to be for one day. So we either solve this now, or what the news coverage is going to be, wonderful games, wonderful venues, and then they're going to cut away and show the contrast. In this city, people are living like this. They're left to live in destitute. So I'm trying to get all of the movers and shakers to see this is our alternative. And I actually believe that we can get there. I really do. I really hope so. Wow. Okay. Well, Maya, Karen Bass, it's funny. Every time I speak to you, you have a different title in front of your name, which is really fun for me. This is the last one. Oh, it is?

Yes. What does that mean? This is the last one. That means I'll run for re-election. I'm done with elected office after that. Huh. Oh, now I have to ask why before I let you go. Because it's enough. I mean, I think it's, you know, I think it'll be time. It'll be time. But I will always be involved in change. Okay.

I'm not somebody that ever planned to do this all my life. Yeah. I was doing a lot before this. So I'll always be involved in change. But I don't need to be an elected official until I die. Huh. I like that for you. I like that. And you know what?

You deserve it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Congratulations. It's great to talk to you. Yeah. Congratulations on the year. It's really wonderful seeing you again. And, you know, I hope when we're chatting in a year, we'll be celebrating the next achievement and the next one and the next one. And I wish you the best of luck because I think everybody wins if you win. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions,

Fullwell 73, and Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Barry Finkel. Produced by Emmanuel Hapsis and Marina Henke. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Braun. Well, thank you once again to Mayor Karen Bass for joining us on the podcast. And most importantly, thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening.

Thank you for being here with us. It's been an interesting launch. This was the beginning, but we will be continuing our journey. Next year, January 4th. That's right. If the new year comes, then we will be continuing our journey next year, January 4th. That's right. If the new year comes, then we will be making new episodes. We don't know what the future brings, so I don't like to predict anything. But if it does come, and if you still have ears and you'd like to listen,

well, remember to download your latest episode wherever you get your podcasts. What Now? with Trevor Noah. Happy New Year, everybody. We'll see you then.