What Now? with Trevor Noah - Mehdi Hasan: The Freedom to Speak

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

What do Premier League football, corporate newsrooms, and 90s action movies have in common? More than you’d think, apparently. This week, Trevor and Eugene sit down with award-winning journalist, broadcaster, and Zeteo founder Mehdi Hasan to discuss fandom, media, and the strange ways everything connects. They debate the beautiful absurdity of sports loyalty, the pressures and limitations of corporate TV, and Mehdi’s decision to leave that world behind and build an independent platform of his own. Then, because no conversation is complete without a few unexpected detours, the three dive into a surprisingly passionate debate over the glory days of classic action movies. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jean-Cloved Van Dam, I mean, come on, he's not, he's no Jason Statham. Whoa. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you kidding me? Yo, what? J-C-V-D versus Jason Statham. First of all. Statham would kick his ass.

My friend, okay, let me stop by saying this. Go ahead. You're stupid. Okay. Secondly, secondly, Jean-Cloor Vandam, my friend, you... I grew up watching Jean-Clo-Vand-D. You have the memory of a goldfish.

No, I didn't. I can tell you every phone. My friend. I can watch blood sport again every day. There is no world... Double impact. There is no world where you can make a statement as it will it be a close fight yes would it be a tough fight time cop my friend

there is no world there's no scenario you watch more jcvd films than i have i watch him now that the b-shit that goes straight to straight to streaming where he's like an old assassin retired i watch that i watch all of this stuff what does i believe in what in what world in what world are you going to what what what did he was like with him there like i don't know oh he's doing a gun like he has a gun because he can't do splits some kick anymore because you said he's old and you did this with your hands and I don't know that one. I don't know that one else. But Jason's day.

In what world? In what world? Are you talking? Are you serious? You think this Belgian dancer is going to take out the British, you think this British diver. You think this British driver is going to beat kick boxer with cheesy life like. What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? This guy is. You're insane. Do you know Tongpo? Ah, my man. You're playing games. Have you seen Universal Soldier? My man, I've watched all of them.

These are the only movies we're heading South Africa. I think Dolph Lundgren would have kicked John Claude Van Dam's movie. Yeah, but that's a tough one. But that's why I'll give you Lundgren. Yeah, but I'm saying that's... But I won't give you Van Dam. This is What Now with Trevor Noah. What's the language rules on this show?

Uh, you speak the language you speak. Okay. How many languages do you speak? What in the half? What's the half? What do? Oh, okay, all right. We are known as the Urdu swearing podcast.

I don't know. I don't worry. When you did your famous India-Pakistan dodgy accent, that was on every Indian WhatsApp group I was on, got that clip. Don't worry. I remember it well. He was like a Bollywood in the middle. Oh, yeah.

It was in the middle of the war. What did you do? Got flamed for that. He did like in the middle of the war, they went do-Tut-Too-T-T did like a Bollywood breakout of the soldiers. He like mocked Indian-Pakistani soldiers doing Bally. No, no, no, no. I didn't mock the Medi. What was it? I can't remember.

Come on, Mitty. You are the men of facts. Not anymore. I can't remember anything. I have early onset dementia. By the way, I have a hard out of 425, my friend, because I got to catch a train or my wife will kill me. Let's do it, man. She's already upset with me.

Let's not make her more upset. Oh, man. Why is she upset with you? Because I'm always traveling. Oh. So I said, I'll be home tonight at 8 o'clock. I got to make the 5 o'clock train. Did you think you would work less or more when you started your own thing?

I thought I would work more, not this much more. It's insanely more. Yeah, and I will say congratulations on all of your. I appreciate it. Same to you. Does it feel like, does it feel like freedom or does it feel like a different kind of burden? No, no, freedom. Yeah? Always freedom.

I love the freedom. Did you ever see this for yourself? Have we started? Yeah, what do you mean? I love this. I love this the weirdest podcast I've ever done. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about? What's going on?

He's just lulled me into it. What do you mean? What if I said something outrageous that I wasn't supposed to say? What if I wanted to say some shit? Say some shit. So wait, so wait, wait, let me understand this. So you, you don't know. No, not now.

Now I'm more buttoned out. I'm ready to go. What would you like to talk about on the media front? No, you see now, Medi. You should have admitted that we were on. Now we must cut the cameras and then go back to the previous Medi Hassan. That's not what we're doing here. Okay.

That's not what we're doing here. No, we're doing. I'm a free man. You see, so be free. I'm free from corporate slavery, servitude, domination. I get to say whatever I want. I get to do whatever I want. I don't have to look over my shoulder.

It is liberating. What do you think you couldn't say before that you can't say now? lots of things. I can say whatever I want. Yeah, but what couldn't you say before? Do you remember a specific thing where you were like, oh, damn, I couldn't say this before? Oh, I think, well, if you know anything about corporate media

and you do because you worked in it as well, you know that it doesn't come down as a set of rules. It comes down as kind of, you know, maybe you shouldn't say this or that. I mean, there are obviously rules. I went to NBC News, which has a very strong standards department, which I respect. Oh, no, that's different. Standards is different. Standards different.

But then there's also, you know, things like, you know, you're not supposed to swear. That's obviously Yeah, but I mean that I can understand that too. But obviously, if you look at, for example, the New York Times, Intercept got hold of a memo at the early days of the genocide where they were saying, don't say occupation, don't say apartheid, don't say genocide, this was their guidance to reporters. Like that kind of bullshit.

When I set up Zateo in 2024, the first thing I said was I get to say the G word, the F word and the R word, genocide, fascism and racism, which corporate media runs away from. You can't call Donald Trump a racist. You don't know what's in his heart. You can't say it's a genocide. That's a little inflammatory, even though every genocide scholar in the world pretty much now says it's a genocide.

So this kind of crap, you know, fascism, I was one of the first people on MSNBC to say the F word, August 2020. I was sitting in for Chris Hayes. It was the Portland protest, George Floyd protest, and I said, we need to say fascism. And at the time, people were, oh, this is hyperbolic.

What are you talking about? He's not Hitler. Now it's kind of his own team have pretty much said he's a fascist. Yeah, but so here's what I think it is. I understand it, even though I don't agree with it most of the time. I think what happens is people don't understand that it's something that shifts.

It's not something that happens. Does this make sense? No. Fascism or any of the, so everyone thinks that fascism happens overnight. everyone thinks that even things like, you know, take it out of politics, being broke or being an alcoholic or be, people think those things just happen overnight. But it's not. It's the one thing that leads to the next thing. It's the second drink, the third drink, the fifth drink, two nights a week, three nights a week. four nights a week. So when you say it on night two of the person drinking, alcoholic, people are like, now, Medi, Medi, come on, man, we don't use that word because that's hyperbolic. Yes, but the problem is by the time you are using, by the time everyone agrees on

the word. Yes, it's too late. 100%. That's the issue. So I get to the Palestinians. Yeah. Now it's like, oh, the majority of genocide scholars say it's a genocide. Every human rights group says it's a genocide. Prominent Israelis say it's a genocide. And it's like, okay, but now 100,000 people are dead. Netanyahu says he wants to take over all of Gaza, et cetera, etc. We're in a very different place. Same with the fascism. By the time everyone agrees it's too late. Fundamentally. In 2019, I wrote a piece. I was writing for the intercept at the time. I wrote a piece in I think March or April of 2019. And I said, if Donald Trump loses the next election, he will not accept the result and there will be riots. And people said, you don't know what they're talking about.

You're a fucking Brit. You don't know anything about America. Secret Service will march him out. That's not how it works. Of course he can't try and stay on. And then we saw what happened with the election denial in January 6th. And now it's like, everyone's like, oh, well, maybe he'll stay on in 2020. Now everyone gets it when it's too late. He's back for a second term. He's crushing his opposition. Now it's like, oh yeah, maybe he's a fascist. Maybe he doesn't respect election results. Maybe he wants to be a dictator. I just realized that you're a Brit. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. I'm British American now. At the time I was a Brit. Yeah, but what I'm saying is I don't even think of you as a Brit. Why? I think you are. Does my accent not give me away?

No, I just think of you as Medi. Okay. Unique nationality in the world. No, okay. Let me explain. Stop being a hater, Medi. I'm trying to explain something to you here. This guy's trying to fight me here and I'm not trying to fight here. You get on the side, Eugene. Yeah. You know, sometimes somebody becomes so ubiquitous that you don't think of them as being. I was thinking about the noculus. Mara ubiquitous is not good. No, what I mean is this is like you, you, someone starts to occupy a space just as themselves and you don't think of them as being from somewhere or because I and I mean this as a compliment by the way

I just think of you as Medi Hassan now From the internet Just from the zeitgeist Some people say Yeah But from the zeitgeist Yeah I do think of you as

Like when you said now A Britz I was like oh damn Yeah Where you from in the UK North London? Huh 12 years ago I left

Are you a football fan? I am Who's your team? Liverpool Why didn't we start there Medi? Because I grew up in the 1980s where every brown Muslim supported Liverpool.

Why? Oh, glory hunting. It was the end of a great era. The funny thing is I started supporting Liverpool when they stopped winning everything. Or they stopped winning when you started supporting them. Exactly. But I used to support it.

So I said this to Pierce Morgan recently where he insisted on his show that I congratulate him on Arsenal winning the Premiership. And I said, you know, I'm used to Liverpool not doing well. Liverpool winning things was an aberration for me. My daughter's a Liverpool fan, much bigger fan than I am watches every game. I don't even have time to watch football anymore

because of my life. But I'm used to it. She's got to enjoy Premier League victories and world class. But I lived through the 90s where it was very difficult, very difficult period where Man United were winning everything. So you jumped on a bandwagon and the bandwagon stopped. Worst time. Every brown person did.

Sardik Khan, the mayor of London. Yeah. He's a believable fan. Oh, wow. So this is how it came to. I wonder if this is how Ryan jumped on. Ryan, is this how you jumped on? Ryan is white.

Why would he jump on when the brown people were jumping in? Ryan is white. brown people always like Ryan makes his own chili oil what are you talking that's so great that we should start building an image of this Ryan guy and who he is

maybe he's white he probably joined at the right time we're brown people come late to everything right so Dacey people people from the subcontinent we're late we're famously late so I come along in like 1990 and it's like

yeah it's John Barnes at the end of his career Ian Rush retiring Ronnie Rosenthal Israeli super sub wonder what would happen to him today but you know this is this was a period where Muslims loved Liverpool and we still do but some of us you know and my daughter's lucky as I

say but this season not so lucky yeah but I mean I mean Liverpool we are we were still the champions until recently is the thing I always you know I have to be reminded of Arsenal won Eugene why do you want me to say it wait what did they win you know what Eugene you know what the ashes you know what you know what mocking people's pain that's the problem is the lowest form of humor Eugene I'm not allowed to dig in and get into the facts and get the merits of the story. I am interested and I'm representing

a huge demographic of brown people that want to join. You've never said brown people in your life. Ever in my life. You just heard him say brown people. And now you're saying brown people. You're like a black guy. This guy's never said brown people in his entire life.

This guy's out here. This guy's out here. Gaslighting. But why are you like this every time we speak about soccer? I want to understand. No. He wants to. Foot pro.

You know what's funny is. So soccer came from. It's football. Yeah, but the word soccer didn't come from America though. No, it didn't. Association football. Yes, but soccer didn't come. It's like, it's funny how we like punish Americans for saying soccer, but they didn't say soccer.

They were taught the word soccer by Europeans. And then Europeans flipped it and were like, no, football. You dicks, stop saying football. It's soccer. It's football. Then Americans are like, but who told us? He calls it football. So I respect him even more than I already respected him.

He calls it football. He doesn't call a soccer. What do you think of Zoran? I'm a fan. I'm an admirer. Myra. What are you a fan of? I'm a fan of the fact that he won an election that people thought he couldn't win. Yeah.

He won it by sticking to his guns. He didn't roll over. He was a politician who basically ran from the left but didn't run from the right. And I think we live in an age where Democrats, anytime they get attacked, they immediately defensive crouch, defensive posture, try and meet you in the middle, try and compromise. He didn't do it. He said, these are my policies. This is what I'm running on.

interviewed him in December 2024, right? At Zateo, he was at less than 1% in the polls. I told him this later, it was a pity interview. They were like,

there's a Muslim guy running from Queens. He's a socialist. I was like, let's get him on, let's give him a platform. That day I was interviewing Hassan Minaj.

And I remember being like, Hussein and I was coming into the studio. I was like, we've got to get this other guy out quickly. I remember, vividly, we're like, Zoran, Mom. Yeah, we'll do that first.

And then Hassan's coming. Hassan's coming. And I had no idea at the time. And I told him this later, bluntly to his face. I've said this to him. Like, I thought I was doing your favor. Who knew this guy would be a global sensation? And I kind of, in that first interviews, when he said,

if Benjamin Netanyahu comes to New York, I'll have him arrested. I remember that. People went nuts at the time. Well, they didn't go nuts at the time because there was nobody. Yeah. But when he became big, that quote came back. It came back to the point where in the White House, Netanyahu's meeting Trump and a reporter says,

Zaron Mamaddi says he'll arrest you. And Netanyahu's like, well, Trump will come with me to protect me in New York. And I was like, wow. And he kept getting asked about it. And he didn't back down for it. I mean, he pointed out that legally he can't do it. Yeah, yeah. But the aspiration, he never backed away from that.

It's not just Israel, multiple issues. You know, he ran on like free buses, childcare. He had a bunch of very clear policies. I've been waiting for a Democrat who can speak like a human, energize people, young people. It's not hard. I always make the example of Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton. What was Donald Trump's flagship slogans in 2016?

Build a wall. Yeah. Report all Muslims. Yeah. You remember, right? It was 11 years ago. You remember it like it was yesterday. What was Hillary Clinton's top slogans?

I'm going to break the glass ceiling. I mean, nobody remembers what. I mean, I'm sure she had an amazing 77-page childcare policy. But that's just how Democrats run with like, we'll give you lots of stats and lots of proposals and lots of technocratic wonky solutions. Yeah, but Obama was, yes, we can. Yes, which was inspirational. Which was good.

And he ran as a populist. People forget, you ran anti-war. People forget you ran against the Iraq war in Hillary Clinton's record. I don't think you can be anti-war when you get in. I think there's something that happens to American presidents. Yeah. Like, I think you can be anti-war when you're coming in. And then I think when you get inside there, someone says something to you or something happens.

And then like, hey, bro, you got to do this thing, man. Donald Trump, the great. Yo man, Donald Trump was fully anti-war. Well, he pretended to me, yes. I don't even know if he pretended. Yeah, 100% pretended. You think he pretended. Oh, 100% pretend.

No, man, I think he wasn't. 100% pretend. No, I think he was anti-war. No. I think he was anti-war. There was no point where he was like, I'm for this thing. Who cares? It's fucking Donald Trump.

No, but-old. I can't believe your evidence for Donald Trump is he said so. Medi, listen, listen. You see, here's where we said. We're going to have a disagreement. Yes, please. You're making it seem like the man does not exist anywhere doing anything and has no opinion about anything.

I'm saying there are some things I believe that he believed. And I think not going to war. I genuinely think that man. Even though in his first term, he did lots of war. He did not. That man. Yeah. Do you remember when he launched like one missile?

This was crazy where he launched like, I think it was like one missile towards Syria or in that region. I was eating chocolate cake and it was great. You, you were eating chocolate. That's what he said at the time. And then. I thought you were eating chocolate. Yeah, I thought you were eating chocolate. I was like, damn, you know where you were.

I eat a lot of chocolate cake. So a good bet that night I was eating chocolate cake. And then he found out how much each missile cost. And then he was like, I'm not doing that again. All right. So Donald Trump in his first term expanded every war he inherited from Barack Obama. Yes, you're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm not saying that he did what he did.

I'm saying, I think there is something that happens to you when you get into the White House that eclipses your views on war is what I'm saying. Because to your point, there is no American president who has come in and not done war, is what I'm saying. So I would give you that. But many of them have come in and said, I'm not doing war. I know, but Donald Trump's different to any other president because he's done these two terms or the gap. Did you see you did his hands by?

I do the hands. As soon as you said it, the hands came in. God, I'm turning into Trump now. Free 2016, you could have got away with Donald Trump. Yeah, you know, he's outside or whatever. But we had first term Trump. People just basically didn't want to pay attention. People kept saying, well, he never started a new war.

But every war he inherited, he expanded in Syria, in Iraq, in Afghanistan. He dropped the Moab, the mother of all bombs on Afghanistan. He did more drone strikes in his first two years than Obama did in eight years. People don't know this. He said Obama, the drone president. He killed Hassam Soleimani, the Iranian general in his final year in office, which could have sparked World War III. So he did all this shit.

He've pardoned war criminals. And then he goes into opposition. He does his little retreat at Mar-a-Lago. He makes his combat beats Ron DeSanders. And he goes to Michigan. He goes to Dearborn. He tells all these Arab Americans, I'm going to be anti-war. Kamala's with Liz Cheney, she's going to send your people to die in the Middle East.

And that people believed. And that was bullshit, is what I'm saying. That period where he pretended to be pre-war. Then he comes in, there's seven, he bombed seven countries in 2024. Right. He started 2025 by going off to Venezuela. And I'm still saying. And he did Iran.

On Christmas Day, he did Nigeria. We didn't even pay attention to that. I'm still saying. In fact, that just proves my point. Go on. When you're outside the White House, you're like, war's not good. When you go inside there, maybe it's like asbestos or something in the walls. There could be something.

I'm just saying where else have you seen It's a military industrial complex obviously That's what I mean, that's what I mean I think there is something If AOC ran for president Won the presidency Do you think she'd be a warmonger too? I don't know and I'd love to see

Maybe maybe she wouldn't be I have a belief that women don't go to war As much as men do I think that women don't think of it as a solution The same way that men do I mean Hillary Clinton had a very hawkish record As presidents We must talk about as presidents

Do you get what I'm saying? So I'm just saying I don't think so We haven't had a woman president we can't test that. You see, so that's why we need to have one. We had female prime minister. As I say, when I'm ordering extra food from a restaurant,

you must do it for science. Okay. But just, yeah, you must see. How can you know things without testing them out? That's a good point. Do you know what I mean? How can you? Here we are testing Donald Trump for another four fucking years.

Do you feel like this has consumed your life as a person? Yes. Yes, I moved to the United States of America in March of 2015. He came down that golden escalator in May of 2015. So my entire period in this country, has been dominated by this orange freak in my private life, my public life, my waking hours, my sleeping hours. I thought we'd got rid of him in 2021 and then he comes back again.

I just can't get away from him. But literally, I'm a Muslim, I'm an immigrant, I'm a journalist, every aspect of my identity intertwined. Oh, yeah, it's fully. There's no part of you that can escape. No, I just switch off and have a holiday and I won't think about him. Or I'll hang out with my kids, but my kids are Muslim-American kids who have to grow up in this country with Trump as president. What moved you to the U.S.? A couple of things.

One is just journalism opportunities. Greater here, I thought. And secondly, is my wife is American and a happy wife is a happy life. Oh, nice. Okay. So where did you guys meet? We met in California. Nice.

Were you just here on a vacation? Yeah, yeah. I was on vacation. I have a lot of friends and family in America. She moved to the UK, right? So the first half of my marriage, she lived in the UK and she was like, when are we moving to the US? And I was like, what am I going to do in the US?

I'm a brown, left-wing Muslim. Who's going to hire me? Right. So when I ended up working at the Huff Post, which was owned by Ariana Huffington at the time, AOL, it was like an American company. So I was like, all right, let's see if I can make a shift. So I ended up here in 2015 thinking, I'll be here for a couple of years. That was the agreement.

I'll come here for a couple years. That's what everyone says. And we'll cover the Hillary Clinton presidency. Best laid plans. Now, I am not a fan of blaming people for things that most would argue out of their control. But just in the little time we've been speaking, I've noticed a pattern. Okay, I supported Liverpool. Hassan started supporting Liverpool.

Because? Medi Hassan started supporting Liverpool and then Liverpool went through its worst period ever. Yeah. Medi Hassan moved to America. Golden Escalator happened. And the golden escalator happened and now the rest is history. So what should I do next? I mean, you tell me.

I'm going to buy a plane ticket to Tel Aviv. Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question? I mean, I'm here just to answer your questions. No, no, you're not. You have a conversation. You have a conversation. I'll have a conversation.

I've got a few for you, then. We've got, we're unbuttoned. There's no ties here. There's no corporate overlords. We can do whatever. We could all start freestyle rapping right now. Can we? You know what you should do?

I'm not very good on that. Let's talk about Liverpool. This guy. You see you. I thought it was all. This guy. There is one tenet of this organization. Please.

Please, Eugene. No. No, but like I, I mean, obviously, that's a joke. you know, I think more about like your life and as a person, like who was many before all of this? Like, how did you get into this world? First of all, you seem, in not even seem, you are fully, like you fit fully into this position.

I can't imagine you not doing what you do. No, can I. You're passionate, you're well informed, you are, you see when you tell me, I don't take time off from this, I believe you, I don't go like, nah, this guy's just saying that. I'm like, no, this guy, you sleep it, you drink it, you think it, you know what I mean?

Yeah, it's a problem. Was that always you? No. When did that become you? It's a good question. I guess what the Trump phenomenon, Trump is too generous. Like him taking on my life, I don't think any other politician. When I was in the UK, I don't think there was a single, I covered UK politics for a living.

Okay, but how did you get into that? What were you doing before that? Like, why journalism? I've been a political journalist all my life. Yeah, but why? Where did this start? Like, we as a little kid, were you on the playground like, oh, I'm going to cover the politics of the Labor Party and what's happening with the Tories.

Not as a little kid, but maybe 15, 16, yeah, I get very political at that age. What politicized you? What were you seeing? That's a good question. I mean, it wasn't a very interesting period. This is the mid-90s. Politics was very quiet in those days. Remember it was Clinton, Blair, end of history, all of that bullshit.

I don't know why I got so polite. It was very boring time. I don't know why I got into politics at the most boring time. My dad was very political. In what way? He loved politics. Old Indian men love politics in general. right they just want to talk about politics at any event weddings funerals

they want to talk about what's happening in india pakistan dc london that's just a fact ask anyone and often the conversation comes back to the role of the cia right so that's that's that's how most sounds like your kind of guys you jean let's go you need to hang out with indian men circa 50 to 75 but so my dad was very political all his life he moved to the uk in 1966 and was obsessed with british politics yeah he was obsessed with british prime ministers the labor party. He's obviously obsessed with Indian politics. So I grew up around him talking about politics, hearing about politics, watching the news. The news was on 24-7 in our house. Okay. So when I ended up being on the news as a host, like for my dad, it was like amazing.

Most Indian parents were kind of disowning any child who became a journalist. Yeah, a doctor, lawyer, engineer. You can't be a journalist. Yeah. And my sister and I both end up as journalists. Your sister as well. Yeah, my mother is not happy about this. My mother is a doctor. My father is an engineer, like a classic Indian couple. And my mother to this day is like, stop talking about Trump. why don't you go be a lawyer or do something different? If you want to make something of yourself. Why don't you make something of yourself? Why don't you be a lawyer?

If you want to argue, be a lawyer. That's what she used to say to me. When I say, you used to say to me like yesterday morning. So she hasn't given up. But my father was very proud of the fact that I was a journalist doing journalism, politics. He loved it. He loved even, he passed away last year. But even to his last day, man.

Thank you. Even to his last days, any time we spoke, he'd be like, are they really going to run Joe Biden again? Really? So you basically found yourself. in his like, this was like his league. You know, it's like it's the Premier League or the NFL or the NBA of his. You found, but it, correct me if I'm wrong,

it seems then that the two of you, it probably brings back good memories for you then. Yes. Because most people would have gone away from politics if it didn't bring back good memories. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, but it was a great bonding moment. But that's what I'm not.

We didn't talk about Liverpool, my dad was on football fan. That's what I'm saying. But we talked about, anytime we'd call me, he'd be like, oh, I watched this video you did. I'm not sure I agree with what you said there about Trump or whatever it is. So that was always an interesting, even till the very end, that was what he wanted to talk about. He was very upset. Any time I'd visit him, he always had the news on 24-7s.

You'd be like, oh, you know, this happened, this happened. Do you know what's happening? He was super informed because he just read The Guardian all day, watch Channel 4 News in the UK and CNN or whatever it is Indian news. So that's in the household. That's there around me. And then generally I wrote about this in a book I wrote about debating, which is I grew up in a house where we were encouraged to debate and argue and question. question and dispute. Like my dad, and I talk about this in the book, in the late 1980s, Salman Rajdi publishes the satanic verses, right? Muslims go crazy. It's a blasphemous book. It's

insulting the prophet, which it did. Ayatullah Khomeini. That was the one, that's where the Khomeini, the fatwa. He should be executed for him. And at the time, people in the other story, Gene. Oh yeah, please tell the story because a lot of people I don't think just know it. So Salman Rojdi, very famous Indian, British novelist, award-winning novelist, writes a novel, which is kind of fictionalized version of some Islamic history, as he understood it, in which the prophet is portrayed in horrific ways as a baddie. And Muslims being very sensitive, got very, very upset,

to the point where at the time, the Ayatullah in Iran, the supreme leader of Iran then, Ayatullah Khomeini put out a very famous fatwa saying the punishment is death for this kind of writing. Rajdie had to go into hiding. He's still today, he got attacked a few years ago. Yeah, he got stabbed. Again.

So it's never gone away, even after the death of Khomeini. And a lot of Muslims burned the book. even in UK town, not just in the Middle East. In protest. So it was a huge controversy, and Muslims then got attacked, of course, by West demolishing. You people are so backward and barbaric and look at you.

You don't believe in free speech. And my dad, in the midst of all this late 80s, I'm like 10 years old. My dad buys the satanic verses, reads it, and then puts it on the bookshelf right by the dining table. So every time we have people over, they're like, what is going on?

They're furious. All my dad's friends are furious. Why have you got this book? Here, why would you have it? And my dad would say, have you read it? And if you haven't read it, how can you be mad about it? And that mentality, which was very provocative in the Muslim community, is something that I remember vividly.

This idea that you shouldn't just blindly follow the crowd. You shouldn't just take what's given to you from on high. You've got to question everything, no matter how sacred. Did you read the satanic verses? No comment. I did, I did. And it's awful, but at least you read it. I mean, I don't read it as a piece of literature.

What do I know about literature? Samarajdi is an award-winning novelist. I'm not. That's not the point. The point was, was it historically accurate? Was it offensive? All of that stuff. But the point is, obviously, I don't support, obviously, killing people for their views, obviously. But I understood at the time, I understood why it becomes such a wedge issue. You weren't about culture wars today. I mean, that was a culture war issue. Yeah, that was viral before viral. Exactly. Yeah, pre-internet, pre-days. And, you know, that's, and then it obviously gets rolled into everything else that then happens in the subsequent decades in the relation between Islam and the West.

I love that you were encouraged to argue and debate by your parents. I think... Yeah, because a lot of Indian parents are like, shut up. No. I mean, a lot of parents in general, especially... Choppel? No, what is that? So, in the aparthe culture, anyone watching his speak sort of the means...

Chappel means I'm going to get my sandal. Chappel is a sandal. Oh, it's done. That's just like, choppel. You're going to get... Actually, you've just taught me a new one now. Thank you so much. Watch it.

Watch it, or is the chappel. Chappel. I'm in. I'm got it for you, genius. Chappel. Every time you say something anti-Liverpool. Chappell, Lwena. I'm coming for you, bro.

Double choppel. Could you debate at home? What would say, Gahua? That's such a chuppler. I don't think there was time for debating. Just as you knew what you were told was what was going to happen anyway. But if you answered back, did you get a slap?

No, no, no, no. I think if you grew up with a single mom, there's no one to defer to. Okay. I think when there's a debate happens when. there's someone to go, right, right, talk to your wife. Yeah, when there's an audience to debate four. But now if someone goes, at six o'clock we're doing this thing and you're like, but at six and then they leave the room.

Yeah, it's the law. Yeah, it's the law. It's just the law. Yes, it is what it. Because when we saw debating is when we went to White Kids' houses. Yeah, that was. And we saw the back and four. You know, yeah, yeah, come on, what do I need to do that?

Yo, yo, yo, yo, yo. The day Andrew, the day Andrew, my friend told his dad, he said, come to dinner. And then he was like, oh, dad, we're still playing. And I remember my body getting tense. You can't say that? Yeah. Yeah, because I was like, I was waiting for his dad. And Andrew, like, he fully turned back. So his dad came to the door and he was like, boy, it's time for dinner. And then he was like, dad, we're still playing. And he didn't swear anything. He wasn't like rude. But he just said a thing that I would have never thought of. He's like, dad, we're still playing.

Right? We're playing. Right. We're playing. And then he was still playing. And then his dad, like, like, walked off the whole period between us going to dinner and the dad come. I sat there. I sat there, tense, waiting for the backlash. Yeah, no, no, but I was like, he turned his back fully. I was like, how is he so? He was like, Blake! And then he was like, back here. And then I was like, this the whole time now.

Yeah, on standby. Could you like, you can't just, you can't. Head on a swivel. That, that to me was not a concept that ever existed. But I think probably in hindsight, it went too far with me. In a debating. Because now I'm like crazy. Now my wife, my kids, my friends, my family, my colleagues have to put up with me

being perpetually argumentative. Like, I can't help it. But you enjoy it. But you enjoy it. Yeah, but they don't. It doesn't matter whether I enjoy it. The people around to me are like, shut the fuck up. So when you got older, your mama's like, yep, you can have him now.

Yeah, yeah. 100%. 100%. I'm sure my mother would say that to my wife. That's what someone said to me when I was in India, on my first trip, actually, where we were at a restaurant in New Delhi. And it was like a crew of people that's, you know, friends of friends that are similar, older men.

And one of the guys, we got into a debate, and I was having so much fun. And then one of the other people he worked with didn't know that I was having a good time. And then he came and stopped. And he's like, Trevor, he's like, I have to apologize to you. You have to know in India, we debate for fun, Trevor.

Please don't be a, I was like, yo, my friend, I've found my people. That's all I was like, I have found, this is the most fun I've ever had. Because we also argue for fun in that way. But I guess depending on which culture you go to. You just wanted to tell that stories, you could do the accent again.

No, my friend, I do actions for every culture. I know, but I love your Indian accent. Every single. And by the way, I don't do accents. I like his Indian accent. I do the people. There's a common misconception people have about me. So you imitate the person that you've met before?

Because I don't, I'm terrible at accents. Are you? I'm terrible at accents. I promise you, I'm terrible at accents. But I can remember how people speak. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. So if you said to me like, do an English accent, I'll be all over the place.

Oh, what you go for? I don't even know. So who's a famous English person you can. Well, I can do a certain person who's on television quite a lot. And that's like, no, you know who there is. Who? I think it looks at me, but it was really bad. No, no, no, it's not.

It's not you. Who? Okay, I'll do it. I'll do it properly. I'll do it properly. Hold on, let me get it. I'll do it properly. Hold on.

I'll do it properly. Hold on. Give me a second. Give me a second. Give me a second. Give me a second. Hold on. You're British.

I haven't lived there for 10 years. I don't watch TV. Yeah, but don't be biased. You're going to think of yourself. Clear your thoughts. Yeah. Breathe. Okay.

Chakra. Let yourself go. You got it. Go on. Okay, let me also channel him. Let me get him completely. Well, that's bullshit. Absolute bullshit.

And now, time for our next story. Jeremy Clark then? Yeah, it veered into Jeremy. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't supposed to. It wasn't supposed to. Because the bottom part was more Jeremy than him. The gentleman.

Yeah, it was. It was. And that's why the Bugatti shot. Who is it? Yeah, that's you're right. I went into a bit of Jeremy. Gamble. Who did you begin with it?

It was supposed to be Oliver, John Oliver. Oh. Yeah. It's not a good John Oliver. No, no, no. Stick to the Indian week. It's because you're throwing me off right now. By the end of this, I'm going to do you.

And then it's going to be over for you. If you do me like you did John Oliver, it would be like any British forces. Like 60 million Brits, Trevor can't do any of them. Clarkson, Oliver, Hassan. And your defence will be, well, I didn't know Mehdi was British. I thought he's just Mehdi from the evening. He is just Mehdi. Your accent has probably changed a lot.

It has. Yeah. Well, I'm a bit of a sponge. So I pick up stuff wherever I go. So people make my British friends when I go back make fun of me. But when I go back, I speak British. But when I'm with Americans, I code switch a bit. And then British people who are in my presence will say, that's weird.

You don't talk like that when you talk to us. Do they say you sound American? When my wife moved to the UK, she had known me for like, how many years before you got married. When she moved to the UK and saw me in my habitat, natural habitat, David Attenborough, talking to British, she's like, who the hell are you? So you don't talk to me like that. I said, because you're Texan. So when I go to India, I become a bit more Indian.

I speak a little bit with a touch. When I speak to elders in my community. I mean, I'm a bit spongy. No, but you can't not be. With my grandma, think about it, Eugene, you as Eugene, the way you speak to us here. No, this is what people don't understand. People like to think of it as switching. I think this is an academic use of an academic understanding.

Oh, you're code switching. No. If you have ever lived in multilingual cultures, you have to learn how to speak different languages to different people. to different people, even in the same language. So if you think about it, the Zulu that you would speak with your friends is not the Zulu you would speak to your grandmother.

Even though it's still Zulu. The way you would say the words, the way you would, your inferences. Yeah, your accent, even your tone has to change completely. So what I'm saying is sometimes people take for granted that anyone who's grown up in a world where there are multiple languages

learns how to speak the language of the people they're speaking to. It's not just like being, that's what I say like when people say like oh you're code switching it's like yeah on an academic level I understand that but it's not I couldn't talk to my grandmother with this accent my grandmother but it's not conscious right that's the key point I'm not doing it consciously I don't know I'm doing it until people pointed out to me yeah no no you don't and also here's the other interesting thing with me it's a double whammy because not only is it okay I'm living in American our family of a British

American have kids one of whom you know grew up in the UK one mostly grew up in the US so the accents are different my older daughter still has her solid not solid I say 60% British 55 60% She kept on to it in the last 10 years, but my younger one came very young. So what I would say here is I'm also on TV. I also did three years of primetime American television. So just I had to switch. So I would have people,

producers would say, if you use that phrase, no one know what the hell you're saying. So I also had to therefore consciously switch times. I would want to use a British euphemism or phrase and my team would look at me blankly say, no one knows what that means. I don't know, really?

We've never heard of that phrase. Never heard of that. That happens. You've never heard of that phrase? And then I, and then I would start doing things like, I'd be on TV talking about, I know, the war in Ukraine, I remember MSNBC and I'd say, they fired missiles.

And then people say, and then friends of mine would say, you say missiles now? You don't say missiles? And they'd be like, I don't know. In fact, telling you the story right now, I'm not sure, as I'm talking to you, I'm not sure which one's British, which one's American. Mine was controversy and controversy. Yes, controversy. So I slowly, it took me four years.

MSNBC, two and a half years. And last year, I switched to controversy. Yeah. I said controversy. Controversy for years and then I switched it to controversy. Yeah. So it goes, classic. Yeah, it goes back and forth.

It's just one of those things that happens. It's life. But I still say tomato. You can't change that one. Can't change that one. Can't change that. Tomato is a weird one. Eugene says water, but even in South Africa.

I say water a little bit American. He says water even in South African now. Can you get some water? Can I get some water? Can I get some water? No, can I have A water? That's exactly how you say. That's a good point.

A water. A noun. You see a noun. Eugene is slowly transforming. into a white American woman. How long have you lived in the US? You have not two days. You have not...

I came here on Wednesday and I got a water on Thursday. Don't go anywhere because we got more, what now, after this? So let me ask you a question. Is there ever a part of you that worries about being left and like having an opinion

and then also saying that you're in the news? What do you mean? So for a long time, people said, if you're a journalist, you can't like have an outside. Just like the Supreme Court, you're supposed to be you know. The Supreme Court was always bullshit.

Now we know it's bullshit. I think the media, I mean, the media doesn't exist like that anymore. Look where we're sitting. We're just sitting in independent spaces. We're doing our thing. We're not bound by these old conventions. And the old conventions

shouldn't even bind the people still in mainstream media, I would argue. It's killing our mainstream media right now because people are fed up with being patronized by people who pretend that they're neutral or impartial or impartial when we can clearly see than not. I would rather have, you know, there was a moment recently where Brendan Carr,

who runs Donald Trump's FCC, he's like his censorship czar. Yeah. He was at a media conference. I think it was a semaphore conference in D.C. Somebody started sending me a clip saying, Brendan Carr is talking about you. I was like, you don't want to be talked about by Trump censorship. You don't want to be on that radar. Right. And I tune in and somebody sends me the clip and I watch it. And he's basically complaining that lots of mainstream journalists have left the media and then now they're all like anti-Trump. And he's like, see, see, we told you the media was biased against Trump. And then he goes, at least with Mehdi Hassan, he hates Trump, but I like him because I know

where I stand with him. He's very open about his biases. And then you can just read or watch whatever he does. And I was like, A, that's a good point. B, I'm going to take a shower now. C, I don't really want to be on Brendan Carr's radar because I'm very happy with my life here and I don't want to be deported. So there's that thing where there is this sense of now people in independent spaces we're

seeing their real colors, whatever. But my position has always been, I would rather people put their biases on the table and then just be fair. So when I do an interview, I have a Trump person on, or I have a Israeli person, or I have someone who I disagree with from whatever government in the world, someone from the Saudis, whatever it is, everyone knows I'm critical of them. Right, right. But I still try and be fair. I don't try and edit them in a bad way. I make sure they get enough time to speak and answer. I don't try and lie about, you know, in the question.

That for me is more important. That for me is fairness. Not this fake left, right, pick a point in the middle. and say, I'm impartial. That bullshit's got to go. No one accepts that anymore. It was never real to begin with. It's now become very apparent that there is no kind of fake impart.

The view from nowhere, they teach you at German journalism schools. In the UK, that was like a big one. I think it's even bigger in the US, to be honest. No, no ways. No ways, many, no ways. Maybe the BBC, yes. Okay, yeah, that's what I mean. Okay, the BBC.

But the US journalism schools just churn out people saying stuff like this. And I think it's got to end now. Okay, got it. And, you know, well, the BBC, American Britain have this role reverse. So in the UK, we have very, very impartial media, very, heavily regular. We don't take a position. We're not tablo, we're not sensationalists. And then you have all these really tabloid your newspapers, really, really outspoken, provocative, the sun and the mail and all of that stuff.

Yeah, that's true. And in the US, it's the reverse. You have all these crazy cable channels, opinionated, fire, you know, outspoken firebrands on cable and on TV. And then you have like really state New York Times, the Washington Post. Very boring headlines. Very, we must keep our impartiality. So it's a weird reversal. But I feel like this world is more, it's, I could be wrong, but I feel like it suits you more.

Like you strike me as like a Wild West kind of guy. Yeah, it was weird that I ended up at MSNBC, to be honest. When I was at Al Jazeera, where I was before, and I also wrote for The Intercept, people would say to me, because I'd lived in the US for a few years, I'd gone viral a lot. I turned up on the Daily Show with your good self, I remember. And people were saying to me at the time, oh, it's only a matter of time until CNN or MSNBC hire you. And I was like, don't be silly. Why would they hire me?

Yeah, yeah. I don't fit that persona. I don't do what the other hosts do. They're never going to hire someone like me. And then I was wrong. To be fair, MSNBC, Phil Griffin, who was president at the time, did come and offer me a job. And I had three and a half very successful fun years there, running my mouth. So in that sense, running my mouth.

Is that a Britishism? No, no, no, I just liked it. I just like that you said that, running my mouth. That's what I do. I run my mouth. That's all I do in life. It's like no other skills in life. That's not true, man.

That's not true. You're an informer. For the police. I knew there was something something weird you know this guy right now just when I think

I couldn't love you anymore this one I thought I couldn't love you anymore just never reveals their sources yeah you can't run your mouth but it's your sources but you do no but this is what I mean

I think you are like many British people you will you will you'll try and dampen your achievements or what you do like British people are very quick

to be like I don't Then you're like, but you're the king of England. No, please. I just wear a crown sometimes. You know what I mean? That's true. Americans are much more.

Yeah, no. You do, like you do a shit ton of research. I don't think I know many more people who just know stats off the top of their head the way you do. Like you, did you, did you study like this? No. When you say study like this? No, I mean by this. When you were a kid, when you were a kid, did you remember everything in school?

Were you able to... Yes, I had a very good memory. Yeah, you can recall information. Not anymore, and I'm old and gray, but my daughter has a very good memory, is inherited that. Yeah. When I was young, yes, I had a very good memory. I could remember, I could remember, I could remember, names, places. Even today, I still remember obscure. Like, my wife will make fun of me that I will forget kids' birthdays, but I'll remember when the Six-Day War was in 1967.

So that kind of random stuff is still in here. I have too much shit in here. You know, Sherlock Holmes is like, the Mind Palace. You must clear things out. Like, I don't clear shit out. So that's why I'm now in a situation where I can't remember like friends' names and stuff, but I can tell you, you know, which president was assassinated in the 19- Yeah, you should then name your friends off the major tragedies.

Yeah, name your friends after tragedies in history and then you'll never forget them. And then just tell them it's like your nickname for them. But look, I also now do have to do a lot of prep. So I told you, I mentioned I wrote this book and there's a chapter in the book on preparation. I do try and make it clear, especially to young people because they ask me this question, especially budding journalists, like, how do you do what you do? Like, I don't wing it. People think you wing things.

I don't think you wing anything. This one I'm winging because I walked into this conversation with no prep. Normally I'll be like, what's Trevor going to ask me? And I'll be ready. And I'll watch this is blind. There's no ready at all. I didn't even know you were going to be here. That's how we surprise you.

Yeah, yeah. I don't even know when we started. Bam! That's what we're doing. Medi Hassan caught, of course. So normally I prep a lot. That's what we're going to put you. Merey Hassan ambush and we're going to play that clip for us.

I didn't even know what you guys were going to ask you. I can't believe you guys said this shit about. Who are you? You look different from when we were on the daily show. Where did the hair come from? What are you talking about? You had a suit. What are you doing?

There was a very different conversation. We talked about Pete Buttigieg. I remember that. We had a conversation. It was a presidential debate, live debate. Damn, you really have an insane memory. I mean, I was the guess. Why would you remember you had like a thousand guests?

No, but that's not the point. But I do remember what you talked about, yes. But that's my point. Because it was political. Do you? I remember politics for some reason. Do you have a tough time forgiving people in life? Yes.

Well, I forgive, but I don't forget. Yeah, but that's part of forgiving, I think. No, I can't do it. Yeah. No, no, no, I'll tell you why. Okay, you tell me why you don't think so. Look, if I forgive you, I don't have to forget what you did. I'm not saying have to.

Yeah, but I'm saying you said it's part of it. I argue. My belief is when you forgive somebody... I didn't forget what you did. When you, I'm saying, when you forgive somebody... It is? In my opinion. To your point, the part of your brain that is holding onto the memory, let's go.

In my opinion, this is only my opinion. I'm not a neuroscientist. This is not medical. This is not anything. I'm winging this for the record. This is my opinion, 100%. I believe when you forgive your brain or something happens in your mind and you're more likely to forget is my opinion.

I think that's a good point. And so I find people, generally people who have amazing memories like this, generally struggle to forgive. It is a problem that I do remember things that I should just let go. That is a problem. Just everything, personal, professional, political. I mean, actually, it helps me in my journalism because the number one problem is.

in this country is people have short memories. And that's why people in power get away with shit. Donald Trump. I gave you an example about the war thing. Oh, he's anti-war. Then I have to remind people. Okay, remember what happened between 2017 and 2021? No, because we all forgot it.

I spent all of 2024 listening to Americans tell me, ah, you know what, if Donald Trump comes back, we survived him once, we can survive him again. No, we fucking didn't survive him. Half a million people died from COVID. But you've forgotten that. Right? Because Americans have the memories of goldfish,

like eight seconds, nine seconds done. Do you know goldfish actually have good memories? Do they, it's a myth? Is that an urban legend? It should affect that before I put it in the book. But we should check it now. I put it in my books. We should check it right now.

It's in a book two years old. I remember reading this and maybe I read the wrong thing. On my fact checker, I should have checked. No, no, no. We should read it because we should check it up now. But I do believe that the goldfish thing is actually a myth. If it is a myth, if it is a myth, then we should replace goldfish. And we're just Americans should play the wrong of golfers.

That's not fair to Americans. I don't agree. I should be the phrase. No, no. Seriously, Americans have no memory. I'm taking my American hat off. No, that's not true. And wearing my immigrant British hat as an outsider.

That's not true. 100%. And people do not remember what happened last week. No, no, no, no. And that's why everyone gets to reinvent themselves, rehabilitate themselves. So the fact is myths. Goldfish actually have memories that span months, not seconds.

Studies have shown that they can be trained to respond to signals for food. Remember feeding times and navigate mazes, retaining that knowledge for at least several months. Trevor, I wish Americans had the memory of months. Because we don't. Let me tell you something, Medi. Let me tell you something. Here's where I'll disagree with you. Please.

I think it is unfair to say Americans do not have bad memory anything. I think any person who exists in an environment where they are constantly waterboarded with a media that is distracted, they are the people. So I'll give you an example in South Africa. You're saying they're being overloaded. In South Africa, we had a commission, right? That is it still ongoing? Yeah. Right.

There you go. Right. So we have a commission that's on corruption. If you talk to the average South African, they are fully focused on this commission. Yeah. How many months has it been going? for? It's been long now. It's been almost a year now. Almost a year. There's no South African who's forgotten about it.

There's no South African who doesn't talk about it. It is fully in the zeitgeist. But I argue because the South African media has given it that it is on television every single day that they're on. It's on YouTube. The clips go out on YouTube. The clips go out on TikTok. People are seeing it. So all I'm saying is, all I'm saying is I'm not quick to say Americans have a bad memory. I've watched the news in America. I've seen. seen a story that is breaking on a Monday and by Wednesday they've moved on and I'm like, how have you moved on? That's a fair point about, especially the Trump era, where they, where the strategy is, what's the phrase, to flood the zone with shit. Yes, exactly. That's the

deliberate strategy of Steve Bannon. People, Americans didn't forget about Bill Clinton when that happened. The Monica Lewinsky, but then Americans didn't forget. Before Trump, we didn't forget, no, Medi. We did, we did. No, Medi, no, Medi. That's why these people, that's why George, look at George Bush's approval ratings. They're really good right now. You know that? George Bush's approval is a good right now. Why? He left office as the most unpopular president. He should be sitting in the Hague facing war crimes charges.

Until Trump came along, he was the worst president of our lifetimes. But over time, Americans forgive and forget. And then they forget, like you want them to. Look at right now where they're on. Why do they hate us? Why do they hate us? Because we remember shit. We don't remember we shut down their plane.

We deposed their government. We supported Saddam Hussein's invasion. We don't have any memories of anything we did. We're bad at history. We're bad at remembering. So I'm going to respond to you, but the then I also have a question for you. So the first thing I will say is that, again,

is not people forgetting, in my opinion. I don't think anyone forgot what George Bush did. I think because of recency bias and because of the way people perceive things that happen in time, George Bush now, for the average American, seems like a much better option than what they're experiencing at this moment in time.

A, because they're not experiencing it right now. I agree with that. And B, because George Bush, I would argue was doing worse things to the world than he was doing to Americans. So the average American, for the most part, was experiencing less of Bush's badness than the world was. So that's what I think was happening. The question, though, that I have for you or for this is, when did you start saying we for, for what America was doing? That's a great question.

That's a really good question. Because I noticed you said, we invaded them, we bombed them, we. I don't know the answer to that question. Sometimes, and you notice what I said before we, I said, Americans have bad memories and then I immediately clot myself. and said, let me put my British hat on, take my American half, because I have multiple identities. So when I talk about bad American memories, I'm talking as an immigrant outsider, right? But then sometimes I'm an American insider. Now, that bothers Republicans.

You know, the new phrase du jour is deport and denaturalize. They say it about the mayor of New York. They said about El Hanoma. They said about me. Multiple Republican members of Congress have called for me to be deported. They say, we're going to send you back to the UK, which makes me laugh. Because growing up, I was told to go back to India. I was like, I'm going to send you back to the UK.

Ooh, that's a real scary insight. You can send me back to London, are you? Oh, not to London, not there. So, I mean, you've got to hand it to the racists. They've gone up in the world. But that is the crap I get now, because they don't accept me as a real American. Naturalized Americans are not real Americans, apparently, unless you're Melania Trump. So that is a good question.

I don't know when I started saying we, I wonder if my MSNBC team know, because I became a citizen in October 2020, a month before the 2020 election, just in time to vote against Trump. And I don't know. It's a good question. I was very happy to be a citizen because I want to have skin in the game. I don't want to be just an outsider, just pundit running my mouth, like a Pierce Morgan when he was here. Shots fired. Obviously, I have American kids, and I have dual national kids.

I have an American wife. I live here. My future is here. No, no, I'm not saying to you, but just to people who wonder, like, something, oh, why does he live here if he doesn't like it? No, I love it. I love it here. I don't like American foreign policy. I don't like Donald Trump.

But I love the United States of America. I said clearly, I spoke at a no king. I spoke at a no king's rally, right? Two interesting things about that. I spoke at a no king's protest. Number one, I spoke behind Bulletproof Glass. First time in my life. That's the world we live in now after Charlie Coke.

It's really strange, by the way. I love the organisers. Spent a lot of money on the Bulletproof class. But it was only at the front. There was nothing on the sides, which I felt was a little bit of an inadequacy when there were people all around the stage. Anyways, that was weird.

Being behind Bulletproof Glass for the first time. I've spoken hundreds of speeches in my life. First time behind Bulletproof class. Did it make you give your speech differently? Did you move a little bit more? Yeah, I didn't have the same rapport. The audience felt distant. Yeah, yeah.

Apart for the people on the sides who could shoot me at any time. And then number two, my mother watched it because it went viral and someone sent it to her. From the side? She watched it from England. And she called me and she goes, okay. I noticed you said, I love America. I want to save my country. When did you start talking like that before you try that?

And I was like, ah, shit. Because my mom's not a fan of the fact that I became an American. She wanted me to stay British. Oh, she wanted you to stay British. But where was your mom born? I was born in India. Huh. What a beautiful irony.

which is exactly the point I made to her. I said, you became an immigrant, moved to another country. Why can't I? I think she's just anti-American. But what do you love so much about America, though? Many things? Tell me. I'm here for it.

All right. I love America. Eugene loves America. So he's just asking you to validate him. You've only been it two days as well. This guy. There's two days of my life. What do I love about America?

I love the sheer space. Yeah. I love the fact that it's a big country. I love that flying to California is like flying to London. I love that. I love that this is a country. continent. I love the fact you go to different states. I travel a lot for work. And every state you go to is like a little mini country with its own kind of people problems, issues. I love that.

I'm all about diversity. I'm sorry, sorry, right wingers. I love my diversity, my DEI. So I love the fact that people are different wherever you go in this country. That's a, that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I love the food. I'm a foodie. I love junk food. I love American junk food and fast food. I'm not a snob. I love the shit stuff. I was born from, I was a, I was I was at movie cinema last night, and I ordered a milkshake. What did you watch? I watched mandoroyan and grogou. Is it good?

Are you a Star Wars fan? Yeah, I love. Lots of people aren't Star Wars fans. No, okay, no, then I would be careful then. I would say that I... If you're not a Star Wars fan, you probably might love it. No, no, no, this is why I'm careful. So sometimes when people say, are you a fan of something,

they just mean do you like it? In fact, in general, I... No, he means you think about it. No, no, no. He means on May the Fourth. Do I say, may the fourth be with you? Yes. Yes, but not as like a

Like I have to I just like that people Have said that No, no, no, no No, no. To answer your question, I love the TV show It's hard to convert TV shows

into movies. Yes. So it doesn't work as a movie. Yeah, they made it a... But it was doing well at the box office. It doesn't suck, it's good, but it's not great and it could have been better.

But I loved the show and I love Pedro Pascal so I went to watch it. But I ordered a milkshake. Yeah. And it came. I love it. I love it.

Did it come in the Grogu Cup? No, it didn't. But it came in a fucking huge cup. And I was like, realized I'm an American. I went back to England. I was doing my show for Al Jazeera. I went to a cafe across from the filming.

I ordered a brownie. And this tiny little piece of shit came on the plate. I was like, what is this? I was like, oh, I'm in England. That's what I was like, I'm American. What about the generally sunny disposition? Do you find that I don't like? You don't like that.

I'm very rich. American head off, British hat on. Okay. I don't want to talk to you unnecessarily. I want to keep my head down. I'm the guy on the tube in the UK. You mind you're busy. you keep your head down, you don't engage.

New Yorkers a little bit like that as well. Not giving people directions. No. No, no. No, unnecessary chit-chat. No, have a nice day. Here's the thing, people get wrong about New Yorkers, though. New Yorkers mind their own business, right?

And because it's a fast pay, people will be like New Yorkers are not friendly. I don't agree with that. I just think New Yorkers understand that everyone's trying to get somewhere and go somewhere. So you can't be just stopping everyone. Hey, how you're doing? How's your life? You're interrupting people's lives. But if you want to see how good New Yorkers are, do something wrong.

And they will very quickly correct. you and help you. Like say out loud, I'm going to Queens and I'm going to take the whatever, the F train. Somebody like, no, no, hey, hey, hey, wrong, wrong train. They'll be like, no, don't. To go back to your point about sunny disposition, if you mean like kind of department store,

have a nice day, that annoys me. I love that. But if you love it, okay, I'm not a fan. But if you mean kind of sunny disposition as in, what's my world, my world is politics. If you mean kind of Barack Obama, Zaran Mamdani, inspiring speech, tear jerking, I love that.

Okay, so you like that. Yeah, like I'm the guy who watched West Wing and I'm corny West Wing. Like people make fun of people like me. I love the West Wing. I'm that guy. I apologize. No, what do you mean? You don't know.

Some people hate that. Yeah, but I mean, we don't. Why do we have to apologize for that? That British political cynicism? No, I'm not a fan off. I prefer the American. Okay. So you've taken on the general optimism.

Yes. That's the thing you love about America. A democratic optimism. I'm with you. I'm with you. But then when it comes to like the niceties in the day, you don't care from that at all. I'm still a Brit. I'm still a Brit there.

I was like, I can't be fake. Do you have the fake apologetic thing that British people have? I'm not sure. That's a good question. Do you have to ask someone else? Yes, I do. I apologize all the time.

No, I'm asking. I'm asking if he has it still. That's all. I'm not sure. I don't know the answer question. You'd have to ask people around me. So you're fully in then? I'm fully in until I get deported.

I'm fully in. Are you worried about being deported? Yes. Genuinely. Are you not? No. then you're stupid. Well, we're going to clip that.

We're going to clip that for sure. I don't know what to say to a fellow non-white immigrant. If we don't clip this thing and put in like just the back and forths here with Jess, make sure we're clipping all of these moments, Jess. You're stupid. No, no, no. Well, then you're stupid.

I apologize. And we must just like gang gang gang gang, go. No, no. It was a source of me. No, no. No. Non-white people do not take the threat of Trump seriously, I think have issues.

Medi, do not apologize. You're making my day. I just prove my point. I just did a British apology. Yeah, okay, so you do have that thing. So, do not apologize. You made my day. Because all, what I love is, I love the idea of us creating like a fake trailer for this interview.

Just hostile. And it's just going to be hostilities back and forth. Well, you're stupid. What are you talking about? What do you know about? You're wrong about it. And it's just ba-ba-ba-ba. And we're just going to put the craziest title on the thumbnail.

And I want to see how many people are going to click on it. And then just go from there. Five minutes into the video. And then I ordered a giant milkshake. Geopolitics are this best. Do you think... Yes, I am worried about being deported. Yes.

It would be insane not to be. Okay. I take this person serious. Remember, I'm the guy in 2019. Yes. We said, take it seriously. Trump will stay on. He just says this shit.

Oh, no, no, no, no. No, no. So maybe this is a semantic misunderstanding that we're having. You ask me if I'm worried. You're not saying if I took it seriously or not. I think there's a difference for me. Okay. So there are things that I do not care to worry about as a person for myself.

But I take it seriously. Got it. Got it. Okay. So do I think there's a chance that they'll take away my ability to live in the US and kick me out? I'm like, yeah, this is very possible. Okay, then you're not stupid. Yeah, but I go, do I worry about it? I can't worry about it. For me as Trump. Oh, then in that sense, I cannot worry about it. Yeah, because I'm like, ah, guys, if I worried about, I wouldn't be doing what I do. I wouldn't be here in New York. Okay, then we're saying the same thing. I would have gone and become a lawyer like my mother asked me too. My mother said, my mother said, stop talking about Trump, keep your head down. And I'm like, okay, and then I go do jubilee. And then I actually care. And I don't say this like, just to say it, I actually care more about. the people who have to worry about it. That's what I care more about.

So like families being broken up. Yes. People who've built their lives here. You've got multi-generation. 100%. This is their only chance. That's more the thing that I go, ah, man. And maybe a not so popular opinion, I worry for the United States.

I agree. Because I think any, like if you, you know, we've had this conversation. We talk about the replacement population or rate of replacement in China or in Germany or in Japan, places where they're seeing what happens when. in you're not having enough children being born or enough immigration. But it's just you. Your country cannot replace the population at a high enough rate to sustain your economy's growth. And there's almost no country that has done that without immigration.

It's very difficult to do without immigration because this is a weird thing that happens. Elon Musk says you can do about having lots of kids and he's trying to show us the way. By the way, what was it like talking to his... Ashley? Didn't you interview... Ashley St. Clair, baby mama. He's... Maybe you really don't have a boss anymore.

I don't think I've ever heard of a journalist say, Mama in my life, right? With that exit. No, no, no, but the way he said it, maybe mama. What did you make of that? As a Brit, I'll say, I apologize. Ashley said Claire, if she took any offense from that. No, no, no, no.

She seems cool now. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean. You said she seems cool now. But I'm a cynic. Yes, you are. I said this to Ashley when she was on the show with respect. I've dealt with too many people who kind of, I've left Trump world and I've converted

and then they haven't really converted or they're just out there for the grift or, you know, you look at Michael Cohen, conned a lot of people, people at MS. Let me see when I was there loved Michael Cohen. He'd be on the show every day and then suddenly he's back in the Trump fold or whatever. So I think a lot of these people I'm very skeptical of like who come very late to the party. Although to be fair, she said she had no regrets. I mean, I asked her straight up, you know, do you regret being fooled by you? She goes, no, I got a kid out of it.

She goes, I had my child, thankfully, so I would never do anything differently. But, you know, she talked about how he impressed her and can't. I don't understand how anyone. I find him to be one of the most repulsive, loathsome, charisma-free, humor-free people on the planet. I get it. He's the richest man in the world. So that has a certain appeal. But yeah, I confused when I talked to her about why she ended up with him.

What were you hoping to get out of that interview? I wanted to know how much they paid her. They offered to pay her. She talked about, really? She said on the show, she said they offered me an amount the size of a GDP of a small country to not speak. And she didn't sign it to keep her freedom to speak out. And she's been speaking out a lot. She's been in a lot of places.

She was on Jennifer Walsh's podcast. She was Hassan Becker. She was on my show. Now, this is what's interesting. me, what does she say is the reason that she flipped her views on the world? I asked that question. I think she said it was being exposed to people. She had not been exposed to being waking up to the grift on her side.

She told some great stories about being in like WhatsApp and text groups with like Trump kids and MAGA influencers are all just getting the marching orders. Some of them are just getting money for what they're doing. You can cameo these guys. Like the equivalent of a few hundred bucks, you can get a MAGA influence to say whatever you want them to say. We live in a world where you click online. You do not know if the person posting on Twitter, Instagram threads is

post him because they believed that or someone's paid them. And that applies on both sides as a divide, by the way. You saw recently Tom Steyer, the guy running for governor in California, billionaire, was paying liberal influences to say nice things about him. I didn't see that, actually. So it's a world we live in, though. It's just me, you, Trevor, who are actually speaking from the high. Everyone else.

Ah, me, my man. I get paid to hang out with this guy called Eugene. South Africa pays me. It's this weird deal that I have. They're like, you have to roll with one. You have to roll. And I'm like, ah, okay, Eugene. Let's roll.

To keep the side up. Let's roll. Let's roll, my friend. The payout is a GDP of a small apartment blog. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. I worry because there's a gift and curse when it comes to everything, right? I say that all the time, but I do believe it. One of the curses of having a media that is controlled by a few people is that it is controlled by a few people.

And we don't realize that our news is being filtered through the lens of a few. One of the gifts is that there's a count. because you know where to find these people. So even Fox News could be sued by Dominion voting systems and they could lose and they could pay the money, even Fox News in that way. But now with the internet the way it is, anonymous rando.

You can run an entire campaign that lies to people. And the thing that I don't mean this like... And you never find the source of it. Yeah, I don't mean this like in a political way like, oh, disinformation. No, no, no. What I just mean is it can make human beings feel like their world is worse or better or different than it actually is.

and it can make them create or vote for a world that is worse for themselves without realizing it. That's like the most pernicious side of it is... Do you remember the Johnny Depp Amber Heard issue? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of that was kind of online artificially boosted. Yeah. The recent...

Why am I forgetting the names? The recent big Hollywood row. I'm having a mindblood. See, I'm old. I can remember wars. Recent Hollywood Rao. Blake Lively. Oh, damn.

Look at that. Blake Lively and Justin Boldone. A lot of that, there was a New York Times piece about what people were doing behind the scenes to Jen up, you know, opposition to her. So you don't know what you can believe anymore. A lot of people out there are just innocently living their lives,

walking down the streets of Manhattan on their phones, not knowing that they're being manipulated and gaslit. Yeah, they're seeing a lot of people saying something, but they don't know that those aren't a lot of people. Those are basically paid actors. You know how they put it in the bottom of an ad, even on TV. If you still watch TV, it'll say, not a real person, paid actor.

They, even in that world, they have to tell you. I know that I'm telling you to take this medication, I'm not a real person. By the way, that, you ask me what I love about America. I love pharmacy ads. They're hilarious. They're amazing. They're phenomenal.

They're phenomenal. So when they read up the side effects, no? Yeah, yeah. It caused diarrhea. There's memory loss. You're wearing your eye on. They're smiling on screen, as I say. My favorite is the fact that they say, ask your doctor about it.

I'm like, if my doctor cannot tell me about the medication, I don't trust them. It's just weird that you're going to be like, ask your doctor about, now I'm just walking and be like, so doctor, tell me about, I wonder how many doctors hate this. actually. You're doing your job. Okay. No, that one doesn't get me. You know what the worst one is for me?

I understand that all medication can have a side effect and I understand that they have to list this. What gets me is when the side effect is the thing that you were being treated for in the first place. That's the one that gets me. That is not a side effect. You understand what I'm saying?

So if they say, do you suffer from constipation? Take this medication. It may cause drowsiness. It may cause suicidal thoughts. It may cause death. It may cause skin rashes. That's side effects. I understand this.

I'm not even judging you. But when you go, side effects may include constipation. That's not a side effect. That's the thing not working. You can't, you must say sometimes it doesn't work. You can't say the side effect of the thing is the thing that I already have. That's not how it works, bro. That's when I have an issue with those ads.

Otherwise, I think it's great. I think it's a fun time. I sit there and I enjoy it. What do you watch when you're watching stuff, by the way? Oh, I've said this before because I don't really watch much other than action films. Well, yeah. What's your go-to? Chase and Stade them.

Ah, I like that. Because he's English? No, no. I knew you were going to say that. No, I don't know. I'm wondering. I mean, I do love that he has the kind of, they have to always give him some random English backstory

because he can't do an American accent very well. So in the majority of movies, like me, I guess. In the majority of movies, you can't do an English accent so far. We've seen poor John Oliver. Because they can't, because he can't do a very good American accent. I take a fact. I'll get it. If he comes back, if he comes back, I'll get it.

If he comes back. If he comes back. That's what, that's what, that grand tour is like Clarkson either. But because he can't do an American accent. And in most of the movies, they give him some random backs. He left the Royal Marines and then moved to become a balance. They always do. They slide it in.

This guy was something there. He left the special boat service and moved to this island. And now he has a normal job. And now he has a normal job. Now he's just a fucking, you know, even though on the other day, what was one I watched the other day? I can't remember the name. The beekeeper. The beekeeper is a great film.

Yeah, the beekeeper was a good one. But there was a really bad one recently where he was on Ireland. I didn't rate that one. He was still a worker, though. He's always a worker. He's always like a foreman, a driver. My favorite one, of course, transporter movies. I mean, but that's one of the greatest movies of Old Town.

He runs Porter 1, 2, 3, they get better. That made you want to buy the car. That's when you know movies dope. It was started with the BMW, then they switched to Audi. The Audi was like, oof, you're like, I want Audi. You got to buy this Audi. You know when they can make like a family saloon look like, no, this is the car you need to be driving. It wasn't quite a family, so it was like an A.A.

Yeah, but I mean, it's like a big, gumba, gumba car. I had an Audi for a while after that, not an AA. So they got you. And I remember when I moved to the D.C., I had one. And it's a real American experience. I was sitting at a parking lot at like a Walmart or somewhere, and my wife or kids, whatever, was inside. This guy just walks up to me.

Big white guy walks up to the screen, looks, and he goes, Audi. I said, yes. He goes, Hitler used that car with slave labor. Damn, bro. And I was like, I was this close to saying, and the White House was built with slate labor down the street. But I just moved to it, like, a month in.

So I was like, let's let it go, let it go. Do you think beef just finds you? It does. It does. No, and I say this, I genuinely say, So I was on the train today coming up. Yeah. And?

He might watch this. Sweet kid was next to be on the train. It turned out to be a fan. But he said to me, and if you're watching, no, you know, respect. I'm saying this very respectfully. But beef, we're in the middle of a train journey. And he turned to me and he was like, oh, I'm a big fan. I've seen your videos.

And then he goes, but I don't agree with you on genocide. Tell me why you think it's not a genocide. I said, I can't do this here. We're on an Amtrak train. I'm going to do Trevor Noah. I can't read my emails. I said, I've done many videos you can watch them. But it's like, it's hilarious to me that even the person who reckoned on a train wants to have a debate about the Middle East right then and there.

I guess, yeah, you've got, maybe you have like debatable vibes. Maybe you give it off. To be fair, I then go and look for debates too, which is what friends and family tell me it's my father. Like I went and did Jubilee, which was probably a dumb thing to do if you don't want to have a debate vibe. Because now. You must have been in heaven, though. People under the age of 25, they don't know my name. They've never seen Jateo.

They've never seen Al Jazeera. You're that dude from the circle debate. You're that dude from Jubilee. Medi, let's be honest, you were in heaven. I was not in heaven. You were in heaven. It was two and a half hours of my life, I will never get back. Medi Hassan, you were, let me tell you something.

Have you seen it? I was not. So you know that series on YouTube where they'll put one person against a group of people in a circle and they have to run to the middle and argue with you about something? I thought it would be heaven. It was not. It was hell. Really?

I went thinking, this is going to be fun. Trump, 20 to one, I like those odds. Let's do it. Someone like me, I'm like, yeah, let's do it. I go there. And you asked early about memory and date. I fucking prepared for this. I spent days preparing.

You know, you have four claims. Yes, yes. I had my notes. I'd memorized constitutional amendment. My first argument was Trump is anti the Constitution. Trump is pro-crime. Trump, I can't remember my claims. Trump is whatever it was, immigration.

Oh, immigration's good for America. I had all these provocative claims for this maga. And I had data, statistics, official reports, all up here. I was ready. This is me. I went in. first guy sits down, I'm like, oh yeah, the Constitution, he's like, I don't care about the Constitution.

Yeah. I'm like, oh, what do I do now? It's like, that of my facts or figure is irrelevant to you. Because I'm surrounded by a bunch of white supremacists, fascists and crazies. And that was a very strange experience for me because I went in thinking stupidly, not good faith debate, but some kind of debate. And what's interesting is, to be fair to Jubilee, and I've criticized Jubilee since doing it, to be fair to them in other shows, Glenn Greenwald just did one recently with 20 mega people. I've watched other shows. Yeah.

And I watched them and I go, how come I didn't get those 20? Like every other show has some semi-normal people. For some reason, what do you say, beef finds me? Beef finds you. I get the 20 craziest people in the history of Jubilee. Like, I thought there'd be like two or three crazies and like 16, 17 normal. But the whole squad was. It was like 19 crazy and there was like one normal guy.

I genuinely thought you were loving it. No, no. Just because of like how you roll in the debate. No, no. You would love it actually. You would, no, we're going to. You would love to be one of the 20. No, I think Eugene would just love watching it.

Because it was two and a half hours in a warehouse in LA with a bunch of white supremacists. And look, I want to make a serious point here. I do love debating, but this is going to sound very strange and cliched. I'm also a human being. And you sit there for two and a half hours with person after person telling you you're not a real American, you're not a white person, get out of my country. I didn't see that coming. I'll be honest.

Maybe I was naive because I've watched other jubilees and other hosts other guests have not got that. Maybe those were white guys on the left who went on. Maybe because I'm a brown Muslim, it was worse for them. But it was a very strange experience to be told by one person after another. You're not a real American. You don't belong here. Get out. You're going to be the first to go.

Then discover after the show that some of these people are linked to the proud boys and are Nazis online. Oh, damn. I was sitting with some. And I took like one security guy with me after I was like, maybe I should take like 20. Because afterwards, you're feeling like that that's a very strange situation to be in. That is not a debate. And a lot of people attacked me. A lot of people on the left said, why did you do that?

Because you gave the wrong messenger. you're saying that people of color should have to sit there and listen to white supremacists say this shit to their faces. And I understood that and I respect that. I got criticized from both sides. And to this day, people say, well, would you do it again? Do you regret it doing it? I don't know. I'm torn.

That's why when you said I enjoyed it, like I thought I would enjoy it, but I didn't. That makes a lot of sense. Do you think it changed how seriously you took the situation in the country? No, I already took its situation. No, no, but I'm saying, do you think it changed that? No, but I hope others took it seriously. That's the only redeeming feature. I hope the stupid people that we talked about earlier

who think this is all just a bunch of old white men in Mississippi are going to die out or the Republican body. They saw 20 young people in L.A. saying crazy, anti-Semitic, Islamophobic, anti-black, great replacement shit. And I think people don't realize this is not just some generational thing. Oh, the racist is just going to die out and then we have a liberal multiracial America.

No, no, no. This is a serious problem. There's a huge movement on the right that is young and vicious. The Nick Fuentes, the Groypers. Some of these guys were linked to Nick Fuentes I discovered later. And I think that is what was scary. And I think that was one of the redeeming features. When I look back and say, would I do it again?

Do I regret doing it? I certainly don't regret exposing. I hope I exposed it to whatever the 15 million people, whatever it is, who watched on YouTube to say, you know, these people live amongst us. They are your neighbors. One of the guys, Connor claims to have been fired after the show from his employer. And I remember being on there thinking, as he said to me, yeah, I'm a fascist. As he played down the Holocaust, I'm like, you're saying this?

I'm not naive enough to think that these views don't exist in American society. But the fact that you now live in a country where you think you're going on YouTube proudly and say it to cameras are filming you, your colleagues, your co-workers are going to see this and it doesn't bother you? That for me was very stark. And actually, for the vast majority of them, there was no consequences for airing those views on YouTube to millions. That should tell us something about where we are as a country and what's acceptable now in discourse. How afraid are you on a day-to-day basis? Like, just when you're rolling in the streets living your life? I'm okay.

Yeah. I get a lot of love. The haters stay away. The haters stay away. Or they're digital. Or they're digital or they watch from afar. I got one guy recently shout at me in airport say, you should be deported, get out of my country.

Like scream at you or just say it like, no, no. He said it under his breath. And I said, that's even scary in a weird way. Well, he breathed. He said it. It was like a middle-aged, middle-class guy. Didn't look like a normal guy. Yeah.

It's walked me under his breath saying, get out of way. Come up. He said, something about getting out of the country. Yeah. And I said, what do you say? Say it to my face. Maybe he worked for the air. airport and he thought you were at the gates.

Well, maybe. Maybe he was just telling you. No, you know, because sometimes in life, you know, they say, like, your perspective can shape how you see an experience. So you don't know. Maybe this person is like a greeter or somebody who works at an airport. And then maybe they were saying it in a good way. They were like, oh, my God, there's Meh-Assana. I love him.

And they were worried for you. And they walked past and they're like, you should get out of the country, man. No, you don't know. Unfortunately, I do know. Because when I said, say it to my face, he said, you hate this country, you're threat to a country. You should get the fuck out. I see.

I like that you verified it. I verify. Okay, this is good. I fact change. No, because people don't do this sometimes in life. You know, you have a negative experience. I was surprised because I get a lot of hate online and in the mail, but not to my face. Actually, touch wood, I probably jinxed it now. But, you know, obviously now at events, especially post-Charlie Kirk, I have to have a lot of security.

It looks really bad. I don't like feeling actually a diva. But you do, unfortunately, given the level of hate and the number of guns in this country. But no, on a day-to-day basis, I live my life. I watch my Jason stay-the-movies. I don't worry about freaks. Here's something I've always wondered. Because we live in a society where people are constantly being fed,

one idea of other people, politics, et cetera, et cetera. I often wonder if there's something you would say to people who have a singular idea of you that might surprise them. What would you, what would you say to people? Because I don't think there's any world where it's just a plurality, right? There's no world where it's just like them and us. Everyone has a shade of something. It's this gradient that goes from one color to another, et cetera, et cetera.

there's somebody out there who is only being fed clips of yours that pissed them off they know nothing about your human being like bullshit lies yeah yeah but i'm saying no but i'm saying there might even be stuff that you've said yes that people have clipped yes in a way you know what you know what i experienced this for the first time like in the in the in the starkest manner was when i did the white house correspondence dinner i did the white house correspondence dinner is joe biden at like any white house correspondence dinner i roasted joe biden i roasted joe biden i roasted democrats i I roasted liberal media. I was there in the crowd.

I roasted conservative media. I was like, this is what the event is about, right? What shocked me was the next day, the clips where I spoke about anyone on the right went to the left. And the clips where I spoke about anyone on the left went to the right. And I was shocked to see how even when we try and create a reality that is gray, the algorithm splits the black and white. goes, we'll send this to you, we'll send that to you. But I'm saying, what would you? It's like if you met somebody, let's say somebody walked up to you and they didn't say, get out of my country. They said, Medi Hassan, I've seen some of the

things you say about this country. And I just want you to know that I think you're really divisive and you're not, you know, you're not part of making this country a better place. You know, I think you hate America. What would you say to them? And if you saw they were trying to be sincere. Yeah, I would say, there's many things I would say to them. Aside from saying, well, I love the country too. Look, I would say, and I say this, because this is my politics, is that I'm the last person to be divisive. I think AOC has a very good line which I will steal from out, which is I want everyone to have healthcare. I want MAGA to have health care. I don't want to deprive my political opponents of everything. I'm a universalist,

right? So I'm the last person you could actually call divisive because I want what I have for everyone else. I've been very blessed. I've been very privileged. I'm part of the 1% or whatever you want to call it. I want everyone to have access to health care. I want everyone to have a roof over their heads. I want everyone to have a job that pays well. You know, I started a business. I'm as American. American dream, immigrant came out. I'm a fucking socialist running a business, right? I'm an entrepreneur now. I do stuff like, make sure you subscribe to Zetaio. I feel dirty after us, but you've got to do it.

Small businessman. So like, I'm a proud American, right? I'm a proud American dreamer. And my position, my politics, in fact, the opposite of device, if they are universalists, they are, I want a high minimum wage for everyone. I want health care for everyone. I want college to be accessible to everyone. I know it sounds cliched, but that's literally what,

it's always makes me fun when we're going to, Oh, the far left and the far right are the two divisive forces. The far right are Nazis who want to get rid of black people from America. The far left want universal health care. That is not the same thing. Bernie Sanders is not the same thing as Nick Fuentes. And if you think that, your brain is broken by the algorithm. I like that.

I would also say I enjoy a good Jason Statham movie, and I hope the MAGA voter does too. I feel like MAGA likes Jason. That actually is where you... I'd say, let's go watch Beekeeper Two together. you know to be or not to be is that what he says he says it in the first movie of course he says it

you think he went through it that is amazing or not to be that is amazing to be and then he kills the guy and then he kills the guy Eugene how are you going to act like you don't love have you not watched beekeeper

fire my man I never watched anything by Jason Statham what? Marathon my brother me and you why I was going to get into it and then one day I saw watch expendables too

I saw a video of him that he was almost an Olympic diver. Yes. Then I was like, That's so random. You've never watched this. But you know that bit of trivia. That only hardcore fans know. He was almost a British Olympic diver, yeah.

Yeah. For me, people who pivot too much. What? People who overpivot. You know if he became a swimming instructor? Well, his next movie, he's on a boat. I just watched the trailer last night. If he became a swimming instructor, I would have been like,

yeah, that's, we're going to be like, yeah, that's, within the realms. He went from diving to becoming a Hollywood actor. But he doesn't claim to be an actor at all. Of course he doesn't. I think he accepts he's not an actor. He also didn't claim to be a diver? Didn't Jean-Claude Van Dam also go from, wasn't he like a dancer?

And then he went into... Yeah, he worked at his dad's gym. Sean Claude van Dam, I mean, come on. He's not Jason Statham. Whoa. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you kidding me. Yo, what?

J-C-V-D versus Jason Statham. First of all. Say-Theth would kick his ass. My friend, okay, let me stop by saying this. God. You're stupid. Okay. Secondly, secondly,

Jean-Clau Vandam, my friend, you... I grew up watching Jean-Clo Vandam. You have the memory of a goldfish. No, I didn't. I can tell you every phone now, Bloodsport. My friend, I can watch Bloodsport again every day. There is no world where you can make a statement as...

Will it be a close fight? Yes. Will it be a tough fight? Time cop. My friend, there is no world. There's no scenario you watch more JCVD films than I have. I watch him now, the B-Shit that goes straight to streaming, where he's like an old,

I watched that shit too. I watch all of this stuff. What does I believe you have? In what world are you going to bring? What was going to do with him there? Like, I don't know. Oh, he's doing a gun. Like he has a gun now because he can't do splits and kick anymore.

Because you said he's old and you did this with your hands. I don't know what that was. But Jason's day that would kick his arm. No way. Are you talking? Are you serious? You think this Belgian dancer is going to take out the B-Ckeeper. You've got.

You think this British diver. You think this British diver is going to beat kickboxer. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? This guy's not serious, bruh. Do you know Tongpo? My man, you're playing games. Have you seen Universal Soldier?

My man, I've watched all of them. These are the only movies we're in South Africa. I think Dolph Lundgren would have kicked John Claude Van Dam's movie. Yeah, but that's a tough one. That's why. I'll give you Lundgren. Yeah, but I'm saying that doesn't. But I won't give you Van Dam.

My man. I just stay them. Stay them. You seen when you put your foot like this. Yeah. Over your head. Over your head. But he doesn't hit people with it.

Statham actually just breaks some bones. This guy, you know what, medi? Overpivitous. No, you are. I think you're crazy. I hope you get deported. This guy just said the craziest thing of all time. I'm just going to say this because one day I dreamed to meet Jason Statham.

You're going to clip all the other clips. Me, I'm clipping this. And I'm tagging Jason on Instagram. This guy. I'm going to say, I defend them. Yeah. The muscles from Brussels. To end his debate.

He's from Brussels, for God's sake. You're bringing in real things, which is not fair because I'm not bringing in a single real thing about Jason Stey. Not a single thing. On camera. I'm not bringing a single. Fine, on character. I'm not, you're hitting below the belts.

No, no, I'm saying, let's take their characters. You're going to take this like, wussy time cop, double impact Hong Kong dude. And you're going to put him up against XSAS. Jason Statham who doesn't take shit from anyone. Transport a two. Blowing up things, shooting people. I'm talking straight hand to hand.

I'm talking hand-to-hand too. Have you seen the beekeeper? John Claude van Damme is Israeli martial arts. We'll just play the Jaylor You'll be here. You'll be here. You'll be here. John Claude van der, you'll be here.

While you're here, you'll feel something here. What are you talking about? You think Statham doesn't kick. You kick. Have you never seen that? See you lied earlier when you said you watched the beekeeper. Show me Jason Staddam's highest kick. And show me Jean-Claude Van Dam's highest kick.

But John Claude Van Dam's short. So you don't need to do a high kick. He's a short guy. Yeah. Okay. You know what. I just defeated your argument then. If there's a world where we could make this happen.

I feel like there's a Jubilee here. I'm going to try. I'm going to try and we're going to raise funds and make this movie. Why, I told you should bring them to the money. Let's just clip this. Tag stay them and see what he thinks. I want to see you both would stay them in the chair. Say what?

I didn't say, you're the one who brought this thing up. You're the one who made it antagonistic. I was happy with both of these heroes. I love the transport. And I said stay. They would kick JCP. You see. You made it into.

Obviously, have you just met me. I make everything. for debate or argument. Even real lights. Somebody has to win and lose in everything that I've proved. What do you think you loved about action movies? What got you? Like, why action movies is what I'm saying?

Because you could have... Yeah, but you could have loved romantic comedies. You could have loved... I do love romantic comedies too. I just don't watch them now. Oh, okay. Oh, so you went through a period. Yeah.

But the action has stayed with you your whole life, clearly. Since I was a kid. Who did you want to do when you were a kid? He-Man's out. I grew up watching He-Man. He-Man, do you think it's going to be good or not? No. I'm worried about too many sequels.

I think at some point Toy films No, no, but I... No, but my toy, I mean, the actually is what I grew up watching. Yeah. And I don't know why I like it so much. Maybe because I was a kid in the playground

who got bullied and I'm not good at fighting. Maybe I saw that as a kind of escape. And I saw myself in JCVD. Did you, when you were getting bullied? Oh, the Javd wasn't my guy growing up? Yeah, but what? Bruce Willis. Bruce Willis was your guy?

Die Hard. Dyer. Dyerhard. Well, that's an interesting one. For a kid, that's a... I don't know why I think that's... How old was I had? I was quite old, 13, 12.

I almost die-hard, 89, 90, I want to say, 88? When we got them was different to when they came out. That's so true. That's so true. I remember the first time I talked to an American about something that was current in my world in South Africa, and they were like, that was from 10 years ago. And we were like, ah, that just came out for us, bro.

That literally just came out for us. So I... No, but I loved Arnie, obviously. I loved all those guys. They all turned out to be Republicans. Now I see everything politically. So I'm like, fuck. No, man, don't do that to yourself.

Slice the lone Republican. No, don't do. Let me tell you something. Although Arnie's a good Republican. But let me tell you something. Mark Wahlberg. Medi, Medi, let me tell you something. If there's one thing I can hope to leave you with

when you leave this podcast is, do not do that to yourself. Because here's the thing we take for granted. Because we live in a world where people have now been forced to live their politics first and their humanity second, we have now created a world where we no longer see humans anymore. Yes. We see the politics.

Yes. And then we forget that there's a human. But we don't understand that humanity is at the center of politics. If I cannot see you as a human, we'll never get to a place where we agree because we've already started with not agreeing. I agree with that. No, no. So what I'm saying is, and I mean this, because I remind myself of this, is I go, I have to live in a world where I'm willing to accept certain people have done beautiful things for me in terms of their art, in terms of their music, in terms of their movies, whatever it might be. Then I find out that on a personal level, they have different political views to me.

That will take nothing away from what you gave me for my whole life, my whole childhood, my whole everything. Because I'm like, yo man, okay, fine. I agree with that. You identified them on the screen. Yeah, but I'm saying don't let that, don't rob yourself. Don't rob little media of it. I try not to find, especially now with the genocide, right? For me, the biggest moral issue of our time is the genocide.

For me, I see celebrities, actors through that prism. And that's a real problem for me. I recently discovered that Helen Mirren is like a hardcore sport. I love Helen Mirren. And it's like, ah, it's painful me. Does that mean I'm not going to watch the next season of Mobland? Yes, I'm going to watch next season of Monland. Okay, okay, okay.

Amazing, even though apparently Tom Hardy got kicked up. No, but they've negotiated and they say, I think they saw the backlash and they've now said they're working on it. I love Tom Hardy as well. But the, so I agree with that. Yeah. But it's hard. I don't dispute that. And by the way, I would do the reverse too.

So someone like Kiefer Sutherland, who's a super lefty in real life, his grandfather was the first socialist prime minister of some province in Canada. He was in a show 24, which I loved, super-Islamophobic show. There's no debate about that. Like, it was a super-Islamophobic show. That was like peak anti-Muslim propaganda. Terror. Every show was warned terror. And seasons 2, 3, 4 became all the Muslim terrorists. Even like Cal Penn turns out to be like a sleeper terrorist in that show.

Loads of comedians in that show turned out to be, turns out so many people I watch it now. I'm like shit, Nick Offerman is like a far right white supremacist. Oh, I didn't know that. In like season two, he's like beating up an Arab guy. I'm like, that's Nick, you're in 24. Yeah, it's early role. Like there's so many, Masjibrani is like a terrorist who doesn't go. Madhjibarini is like a terrorist who doesn't go through.

I've been rewatching her recently with my daughter. So I was like, okay, Islamophobic. But like that show, I loved it, but I had to really torture. Like a lot of Muslims, like, we should boycott this show. And I was like, I want to, but I love it so much. But it goes against everything I believe in. And I met Kiefer Southern once, and I got to ask him about it. And he kind of tried to put my mind to ease about like the on-screen Islamophobia.

But that's the reverse. That's where on screen it's really bad, but you're still watching it as like a guilty pleasure, even though you know politically goes against everything you stand for. So, but going back to you as the kid, who do you think you were? Actually, what, because like when I was getting bullied, in school. My two defenses were my speed. I could outrun most kids. And then was my humor. So I was like, okay, if the bullies do catch me. And then I'm going humor. What was your, what was your? Mine was similar. Humor more mockery. So as I was getting beaten up, I would make fun of them more in front of the people.

For real, for real. Yeah, because my mouth never shuts. I run my mouth. So that was the main thing, right? They're going to try and beat me up. One thing they're not going to do is silence me. And that's been how I've been all my life. So, you know, whether it's Republican members of Congress saying deport me, yes, I'm back to the UK. Or the kid in school bullying me, calling me the P-word. That was the same. That was the same. So it was always a matter of it, but you're not going to shut my mouth.

You can physically, you know, you know, all sticks and stones will hurt. You know, the crap teachers telling, sticks and stones, don't hurt your bones. Words are not affecting. No, bullshit. I knew that from very old, words will affect you. I've made words my career. And that was the only defense I had. That explains a lot, though.

It's like you kept that thing of, you're not going to shut me up. You might scare me. You might beat me up. You might threaten me, whatever it is. but I'm still going to say, what do you think that gives you? And what I mean is like, what does it preserve of, you know?

I mean, I would hope it preserves my integrity because ultimately, if you're in our business, at many points in your career, you're asked to sacrifice integrity, your principal, you're asked to shut up about an issue, you're asked not to say, you know, as Noam Tromsky has often said, the worst kind of censorship is censorship by omission, right?

It's what you don't say, not what you do say is that's the worst kind of propaganda and brainwashing and gas, gas sliding. And I think over the years, that's been the thing that I've tried to avoid in all my public life, my private life, as someone on the left, as someone who's a Muslim, et cetera, et is just saying, you know what, I'm just going to say what I have to say. And obviously, to go back to your earlier question, this is why I love doing Zatea right now. As much as I loved MSNBC, I had a great time at MSNBC, had a great time in all the other places I worked. All my experience

are being great. I don't regret any of my journalistic career. But the moment I'm in now, that freedom really to be able to really just go for it without having to worry about any consequences, or obviously some consequences, but in general, I think that is hugely liberating, and I say liberating in a very literal sense. Well, I'm glad that you get to be this person. Thanks for joining us, man. This was a true joy.

I'm glad we got to see. And good luck for the train ride back. If someone approaches you, because you never know. This guy starts. Same kid would be the same train. He gets beef started. You never know. So on the way back,

I find myself sitting next to Jean-Glo-Vand-Damp. Yay! The muscles from Brussels. The muscles from Brussels. The fact that's from Brussels. Have you watched The Beekeeper? Let me tell you would kick your ass. Hopefully you bump into Pedro Pascal.

Oh, that'd be good. Not wearing his mask. You didn't reply. I said, this is the way. Yes. Is it? Yeah, of course it's the way. They didn't have enough of that in the movie.

They did it. They did, but not enough of it. I wanted more of it. Yeah, that is the best part of it. That is the best part. Does Boba, does Bobat make an appearance? No. Don't spoil anything.

We're going to go watch it ourselves. That's what we've got to do. Medi Man, for real. This is great. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM.

The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaziamen, and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?