What Now? with Trevor Noah - South Africa Sessions: The Greatest Snake Oil Salesman ft. Sizwe Dhlomo

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Sizwe and Eugene are not letting Trevor get a hair transplant without a fight. What starts as a beard debate spirals into elbow grafts, foreskin logistics, and the exact wingspan-to-height ratio you'd need after leg-lengthening surgery. Trevor makes an unexpectedly convincing case for Elon Musk as pure talent wrapped in pure bamboozlement, and the three rank which movies actually change how you see the world -- plus Trevor's borderline-scientific approach to watching them on a plane. Then it turns real: xenophobia, why nuance doesn't sell, and who a mob actually protects when it picks a target. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Because here's the thing about Elon Musk. Elon Musk is equal parts talent, vision, and bamboozlement, which might be the perfect combination in life. Yeah. Archiddii will roast you with those sounds, man. He doesn't even talk.

R.Bri-R-Bud. Then you're like, how can you say that about my mom, R-D-2? You just had literally Nigerians being like, oh, South Africa, you can't go. I don't want to hear. We're going to find you where you are performing.

We're going to find you what you are doing. Then I was like, but my brother, you're doing the exact same thing that you're complaining about. No, but on a plane, I'm a beast, bro. You can't beat me on an airplane. I don't watch on a plane.

I sleep on a plane. Ha, bruh. While you sleep, we grind. That is funny. But the reason why they do it is one out of frustration, but also because they've seen that no government official is going to come here until a school is burning. Here's the paradox about Eugene, right?

Eugene is inquisitive enough to make himself interesting. But also, no, I'm serious. But also, who is this? enough to be ignorant. Don't do that. Watch documentaries at home. Because also with dokeys, you may want to research certain things.

There you go. How are you research you want to make? I believe it. I believe it. Way. This is What Now? With Trevor Noah. Yo, I have a question

for you guys. Yeah. I need your advice as friends. I was thinking of going to Turkey to get a beard. No. Yeah. Why, no? Why a beard guy is so quick to stop

Me from getting a beard. He thinks we're gatekeeping the beard. Guys, he thinks you. I get me, and te? Why you think I should go? 100%. I don't think you should go. Why not?

Because funny enough, this is your theory, right? So, you can either have hair on top of the head and then no beard. Or you can't have a beard and no hair on top of the head. Oh, you don't believe in my two ears. When you're old? You can't have both, bro. Imagine if you're rolling with a fro and a beard. It's just too much.

Yeah, but I want options and what I've realized is... No, no, let me tell you what happened. So early on in my life, I gave up my beard rights because I didn't know what the future would hold. Because you guys forget this now. What happens you'll be. You lasered it, right? I lasered it. I laser my beard off, right? So what people forget is like, beards are cool now.

See, you guys were all with them. But a few years ago, these things were disgusting. Hey, fell. Having this on your face all the time. I've had accounts declined because of that. That is funny. I'm from days at end and like, beards are just a thing, man. Yes, as I said, disgusting.

So what I'm saying is like, for a long time, beers were considered like uncamped, beards. You couldn't be in corporate work with beards. You couldn't be on TV with a beard. You couldn't be a president with a beard. You couldn't be like, beard was just not considered. You know what I mean? You look suspicious.

Yeah, then I think pandemic was probably the last step. But before that, beard started like coming into the game, coming into the game, you get on the saying. Yeah. Then you saw like, more lettermen with a beard, John Stewart, Colbert,

et cetera. Yeah, so you started seeing like people rocking beers, rocking beards. Now, I feel like I've given up my, my legacy and inheritance.

Too soon. Not too soon. It's just like, I don't have the option. You should have considered us before we went for laser to be quite, too, I didn't know us then.

But how was I supposed to know then? But also you were a kid. Guys, it didn't seem possible that beards would ever be something you would want to own in a society. Yeah. Yeah.

Like genuine. I'm not even lying. Genuinely. To be quite honest. I could not have seen a future. Yeah. No, I hear you. It's like the same thing with circumcision.

Wait, tell us more. No, I'm just saying like, if somebody was like, bro, do you think we're going to need this jacket ever? They're like, no, leave the jacket at home, right? Then you decide to leave the jacket. Yes. Now it's cold. You're like, yo, I want my jacket back. You get what I'm trying to get you?

Jacket. I mean, look, the jacket I understand. The jacket is obviously. I want to go back to some. decision to understand. But the jacket is a foreskin. Yes, but who who has ever

and this is a shit? I've never come across a guy talking about I miss my foreskin. Never ever, ever, ever. Yes, okay. Then we're on the same page. Okay, then we're on the same page. So I guess maybe. Why would the guy say that Val? Palangiti, why is the guy missing his beard? He's right. Cizra's right. Why is the guy missing his beard?

Cizua's right. When you stopped off his beard. When you started, yes. When you started, you started to be crazy. Yeah, Maragiti, the beard, like you said, are now in fashion. Yes. No one is having conversational. about foreskins. What if Jack has come back?

What if Jack has come back in the game now? That's what Caesar is saying. Caesar is saying, when you live in a world where it seems impossible, I'm glad he's at least seeing my point of view. You see what you just said? Always remember who he is, the guy who said, don't go to Turkey.

But now we're going to get into why. Before I'm defending, I'm my jacket. I'm no, I'm not defending. I'm just asking, so I'm saying, at least you see my point of view. You understand why I did it. Oh, okay, something coming. Yeah.

Now my question is, why should I not go? Get a foreskin. you see now the way you put it now so let me tell you why right that's not what we're talking about no no no let's keep

with this analogy I imagine to reattach your foreskin would be so weird first of all because now you're gonna have like a stitch around your joint I mean we can just talk about

beards wait no but why we need an analogy but the beard no but the beard is also the same because now when they plant hair like follicles in your in your face

they do that yeah you're going to get scorn No, no, no, no, no, you won't. You won't? You don't, no, no, no. It's like a machine that just like, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, po, it just puts them in.

Well, else, there's different types of, there's ones where they, like, poe, pooh, pooh, pooh, and it puts them inside. Well, else, for it's skin to pay, a corner. The tinkinke in a lot of,

because. That's funny. Now that I think about it, where would they get the flame? That's what I was saying. They have to do a graft, just like with hair. Really?

Pick a part of your body, bro. No, my man. Pick a part, I'll tell you it from your elbow. Yeah. Let me tell you something. From your elbow. Guys, from your elbow. Well, not the same.

It's like a ball texture. Guys, guys, guys, I like how everyone is holding their elbow right now. But guys, before you think I'm crazy, tell me another part of your body. And you know it's hard that you would have to use for a graft to get a full skin. But remember, you know why you can't use an elbow? Who's pointing to your armpit? Are you crazy? You know why would it?

Guys, where are you going to get skin from the armpits? Yeah, but also armpits as like sillier. You don't want hair in your thing. Now you put a shield on your first skin. If anything, you can use the skin from the armpits for the beard. Yeah. Now you're playing sock out. You're sweating in the wrong part.

In. You know, you know, someone wants to zoom in with their smell. They go like this. You know, now you're that guy putting Roland on your face every morning. Now you're there. That is my dear. Thank goodness for Rekona. Oh, that's funny.

Oh, man. Oh, boy. Rather your face, though. Imagine putting Ronald on your penis now in the edge. Oh, man. Guys, can we just talk like ball on ball? Hold the hole. You see to show that skin.

I mean skin is the biggest living organ Yes And different parts of your body Have different parts of skin And different parts of skin And different parts of skin has different sensations Yeah Apparently the elbow has the least amount of sensation

Yes So I wouldn't want to put this Where I need the most amount of sensation But you don't need it on the skin No Everything that touches the sun is yours My man Why would I want to have

Dead patches of network Everywhere the light touches That's gonna be parts where there's no cell phone reception that's funny when so my thing is I think I think it will provide an enjoyable contrast

also you know that like you know like hot cold therapy sometimes they lose sensation on yeah yeah that's quite common that's quite common look I would go but I think it depends it depends on the type of boob job you get

right or if you remove one yeah yeah it depends it depends how they insert the yeah how they insert the silicon or whatever they're putting in But, Mina, before I'd go and get a for skin to pay, the person out consulsed. I think we've made this point already. No, no, no, but now this is part.

I want to get a tattoo artist. Huh? No one knows skin, pain and sensation like a tattoo artist. You're not wrong. So I'd go, which is the most delicate part to tattoo? Because I know this part is hard. Fingers, no? No.

Here. Inside of the finger? Here, it's not because of the skin. It's because of the bone. Oh, okay. Okay. So here, the skin. Yeah.

sensitive as hair. Nala. Nala. So, the crafty arm would mainly consist of. Can I tell you, the shand? Here is also good, I'll say. I will say that. But it could grow here.

Okay, then we have a problem. Me's going slightly lower. Then we do, you do have a problem then. Okay, can we now go back to my issue? Yes. Now that we've gone on this tangent. So why are you saying I shouldn't go? Well, first of all, like I said, I thought he was going to definitely give you scars.

No. But you guys are saying no now. Yeah. It most likely will not. Never know. No, it won't. Yeah, but there's nothing guaranteed in life. So 99% whatever chance to know, it won't score. And then where you're getting the follicles from? Because of the hair, my man, do you, hey, dude. But it's different type of hair. Boy, but my point is, it's different type of hair. In fact, when I go to Turkey, people are going to be like, is he the main one? You know what? I'm going to be like, Neil from the Matrix in Turkey. Guys are going to be like, wow, he's the one. You know where I'm going to walk into the clinic. Yeah. And the guy there's going to be like, morph is.

going to be like, I've been waiting to meet you for a long time, brother. You don't know me, but I've known you my entire life. That's going to be me, right. It's different type of hair, though. Don't they take it from the back? Yeah, they take it from... No, what I'm saying, it's different type of hair. Like, your beard is not the same type of hair as hair on the head.

Yeah, but they can find... So that's another thing that... Yeah. Now you're getting braids, yeah. No, but that's... You know what I mean? Talking about a pro. No, just look at his hair and then look at his beard.

No, but see, he's... Not even the same color. But wait, let me explain. Yeah. You look for the part of the hair and the part of the head that has the hair. So your hair is not, is generally not the same everywhere on your head. Yeah. Right.

So my hair, for instance, the hair right here at the front and the hair on the sides, the here at the back, the hair of the crown, all different hair. Yeah. All completely different hair. Right. So I'm assuming. But it's not scratching enough to be beard hair. Beard hair is like very tough and scratched.

Probably Leila closer to the face could cover. I get you know as our evolution, this is the only part that cleared. Oh really? Is that how it happened? Yeah, like Mm-hmm. Wait, why did that, wait, why did that happen? I don't know, it's out of my pay grade. Yeah.

Wait, wait, wait, so we're watching a documentary and then you just stopped. No, I just thought so. Oh, okay, talk about your process. Because remember, the apes. So we had hair all of our faces. Yes, because I always think of, no, I'm buying it from that theory. I mean, I'm coming from that theory of which he zones, of hair.

Yeah, okay, cool. Which obviously Lana, the hair, even when you're getting a lineup, Lana, it looks like the hair can go. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it looks like it wants to come down your face. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Your hair gets gentler as it gets lower. That's what I'm thinking.

Okay. Because like Sizo was saying, if potato inuele is the coarse and tough and put it here, it will not match the whole setup. What, actually, I've never known this? Because a beard is much more soft. What is your hair? You can't answer this question. Answer, there is G.

Why me? You are the one of the red, you are gifted to have both. You see you and out on each start of the conversation, you, my friend, are in the middle. Tell us there. I think there's three zones of hair texture. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Softer. Okay. And then Lena in between. Okay. And then Lena course. Okay. So that's what I'm thinking my evolution is like,

so you think front hair. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I hear you. Even like leg hair is not rough. Like you never see people about my dreads. Enya way. That's true.

I don't think I've ever seen dreads on legs. You know what I mean? I'm trying to think if your characterization, rather, is accurate. Because I feel like beard hair is coarser, right? But shorter than head hair. It does feel coarser to me. It's way coarser, bro.

To me, it feels coarser. This feels like steel wool. Yeah. And then your hair, though. Just in my opinion, mine is like. I don't have a beard to put anything on. But even with you, bro. But even with you, look at your beard here.

Imagine if me... It looks coarser. Imagine me going to a store and buying beard things. You know when I'm checking out, the person's looking at me like... Yeah, but if you commit a crime... You know how I know this is. You know how I know this is.

They have an Afro and a what? They wouldn't say beard. They wouldn't say beard. Because you know what else? They wouldn't say beard. If I committed a crime, no one would say and a beard. They would just say, yeah, they wouldn't.

No, they wouldn't. If you put them next to my nigga over here, nope, nope, nope. They would say, they would say, maybe they'd say like light facial hair. Yeah. But they would never say beard. It's very sparse.

They would never, let me put this way. If aliens were coming down to Earth and they were like, yo guys, there's too many of you, we need to have full lair la hair. Why are idiots? And then they say the people with the beards are dying. Why are illness from Mama's Keral?

No, why, why must they speak English? Aliens download all the languages, aliens are like, yo, we know where we're going to invade. We're going to download all the languages. So now they're not going to come to South Africa and only speak. They want you to feel comfortable as well. Because they're advanced beings. That makes sense.

Yeah. So when the aliens come here. And they've been studying us. Yeah, they've been studying. So every country they'll go to, they'll speak. So in South Africa, they'll land and they'll be like, yo, guys, there's too many of you on the planet. We need to have a hula here.

So we've decided to make it fair amongst the guys. We're just going to say, beards one side, no beards one side. Then me, I'll be like, what's happening? they're like, where the beard guys, they're alive, the other guys out, then I'll go this. They'll be like, hey, Baba, we think you got confused. One side. Which side is this?

The beard side. Non-beard. Bro, I'm dead. Okay, no, no, no. When it's marginal like that. Yeah, when it's, yeah, again, some now. We'll vouch for you. When it's marginal like that.

Me and season will vouch for you hard. We'll be there going, no. But, guys, guys. But, hold on. Listen, hold on. When it's marginal like that, you'd be with the beards. But when you get there, you're getting roasted. for your beard, though. We're like, ah, what is this?

Let me tell you guys something. Yeah. You are thinking to, you know, if you want honesty, ask kids. No kid that has ever told me I have a beard. You know what they've asked me? They've said, are you trying to grow a beard? That's what kids have told me. Did you kick them in the chest?

That's what kids have told me. Are you trying to breathe? That's what kids. Uncle Trevor, are you trying to grow a beard? It sounds like I like it. I mean, I feel like. So, so, so what I'm, so, So what I'm saying is, so. Yeah. So I don't even have an issue with what I just feel like is I've lost options.

That's what I feel like. I feel like I've taken away some of my options. But why are you saying I should go to Turkey so quickly? No, because I mean, I think if there's a solution for something, let's make it happen quick. You're not. Actually, you're not wrong. If there's a solution for something instead of now we're here, you're not right. No, no, you're not wrong.

And so on. But my worry is, I think whenever I see those people who've done those procedures, like I can be. You can always tell, right? No. I mean, I worry that the hair growth might be too aggressive. I've never seen that. What do you mean?

It's always, if they... It's always weak. Look at Lewis Hamilton. Damn. He got that shit done? Oh, come on. What do you mean? I don't know.

In his rookie year. Do you remember Lewis's hair? Lewis was bald, ball, bald. Yeah, the headline like his dad. Yeah, exact same hairline. Exactly same hairline, basically. I didn't know. Yeah.

Yeah, go back and look at Lewis Hamilton in 2006. 2007 and then now look at them again in 2009, 2010. Now it's fresh, but fire. Yeah. Fire, fire, fire. Yeah, but I need to accent all. I'm saying in the face, don't you think maybe if you want to have the option of shaving off, won't your hair be too?

No, no, it works. It works really nice. I've never seen it come back aggressively. If anything, it comes back weak. If you look at LeBron, he must have, he's tried like 10 times. No, but shame, what he, I don't know the actual procedure, but like, that's the thing about technology that's tough as well, in medicine or in anything. when to adopt is as important as adopting.

Don't go too early, yeah. So if you look at like, but it's always too early. You just don't know when the next jump will be. Like L, EBBL kind of thing, yeah. Think about that. Think about, so with hair, that transplant was like they take a strip out of the back of your head. Like a carpet. Yeah, they'd cut a strip out of your head and then they would like peel the hair out of it.

It was a completely different process. It's almost considered barbaric now when you look at the procedures out now. Because they literally cultivate your head. Yeah, whereas now they take out the follicle itself. They pull those out. And then the one that was considered advanced, the incision one, is now semi-barbaric versus the precise, like, pokey-poke one. So I think...

I think we're in the golden age of, what is it called, looks maxing. But that's another thing, right? Because what if the head doesn't match? With beards, right? You need a lot of hair to make it look like it's together. Do you know how much it's an eight-hour procedure? And it's more than one person. But what are you harvesting?

That's what I want to know. Guys, are you not paying attention to the top of my head? No, I heard you. I heard you. But this here can cover all of this three times over. I've got hair in my hair, son. Okay. Wait, so, are you going to go everywhere?

Like, even where you have a mustache and a goat to. No, no, I would just like do it like. No, but you see, that's what my problem is. And then what? Then this hair might grow. longer than this hair that exists already. That's fine. Because also, no, my man.

You're right about that, though. You don't want to have, have, have you seen people with uneven beards? Yeah, boy. Like, naturally. So guys have got like, it's growing heavy here. And then yeah, it's patchy.

Have you seen those old? Yeah. Yeah, boy. Like a mad scientist. No, for real, because they even comb it out. No. No, you know, it's funny. Because you did it like this.

Yeah. I saw the person. Yeah. Like that, like, that evil guy from Sonic. Okay. What's the limit you would do for like changing your looks? as a person. Would you do the leg lengthening surgery?

Never. Never. I wouldn't do that. No, this is not about... No, never. No, never. Oh, I see. You're asking somebody who would like benefit from it. Never, never, never. Why?

Because I think if you can't match it everywhere else, let's leave it. What do you mean? Because if my legs are longer. Yeah. Because right now I feel like proportions. Yeah. Your proportions work. Yeah, what if my torso now starts looking off so and man.

No, you just have a smaller torso. It always looks good to have a smaller torso. No, have you not seen... You know who you look at. models will have like super tiny torsosos long legs it works i've never heard that basketball players a lot of them will have super tiny torsos long legs it works you actually want like a tiny torso and long legs you can you can pull off anything your clothes will look great you know what doesn't look great long torso short legs it's over for you in life but we've never

seen that one yeah but my point is it's over we've seen some i've seen people like that with a longer toes and short legs some people have mega long torsosos and short legs and there it's rough mega long. Mega, mega, mega, long. I don't think the torso is a big deal,

but your limbs are a big deal. So, for example, you know, the whole wingspan is like roughly your height? Yes, yes. Because now you're not going to send your arms,

so your arms will still be short, but now your legs are long. Yeah, but guys, that has nothing, what do you care? Dude, now your arms are swinging at the top. You don't know.

Why are you walking like this now that you got the church? You're looking like Mahudana. Guys, what are you talking about? And first of all, Mautuana. What are you guys talking about?

And also, you wouldn't be able to tie your laces would you? No, you would What do you mean? Bend over. You wouldn't be able to bend over in touch your toes.

It depends on where your flexibility lies. But he also can't bend on touch your toes now. I'm trying to think the thing I'd cause is something that would reverse age me. What? Like anything, that would be like, oh, that's what you do.

Yeah, that thing I would pay, pay money, money for. Really? Yeah. I mean, that's what billionaires are all people. Because remember, remember, there's an age where you're like, you don't care about yourself. Yeah. Then there's an age where you're not caring about yourself. I don't know about reverse age. I just care about health. That's what I think is saying. Yeah, but that's what I mean. But I need to remember that reverse the whole process.

You outside matches your inside. So. Well, not necessarily. So you can, you can age and just remain healthy. Like, so certain features will change. You go gray, right? Maybe you get wrinkles, but you're still healthy. I take that. I don't look like I'm 25. So you want to look like those. Seizio wants to look like those videos where like athletes go undercover as an old man to a park. That's what Seizier wants. Yeah. Seizzo wants to be showing people up in the old age home.

Yeah. I don't know. Let's see who can jump the highest. I'm not interested in that. No, but that's what that's what's what I was going. I was like, there's an age where you don't care what you look like because you're a kid. Your mom, dad dresses you. Yes. You don't care. Then you become a teenager. You're like, yeah. Then, but the physique of a teenager and the stamina and how your organs function. Yeah, not fine. You don't appreciate it when it's happening.

No, you don't. Because you don't have the means to exploit it. Do you know what I mean? The only, the only, the only, the only, the only athletes too. Yeah, the only way you can exploit the optimal level that your body's performing is by being sent by other people. Okay, she will understand. Yeah. Everyone else sees the use in a young body.

You're of the young body. And then you get old. Then you're like, okay. my mental maturity is matching my physique because now I can defend myself because remember, at that young age you're useful because you can't defend yourself. Okay.

You know what I mean? You're at school, you're young, at your house, they can send you because you can't fight them. You can't provide for yourself. Right, right, right. So when you reach an age where you can provide for yourself, you can think for yourself, you can defend yourself, that's where you feel like you can freeze time.

But there's also a mystery of what it would feel like if I got just a little bit older. Because I get there's people that are older than you that are getting more things than you. Yes. Because they've had more time than you. And I feel like that age is like 40, 45. You've maxed out your talents.

You've maxed out your abilities. And your organs are fine. You know when you go to the doctor, like, yeah, everything is fine. Blood pressure is fine. Are you working out? Well within the range. Yes.

There. You want shit to stop there. I'd agree with that. Not at 55. When they're like, you know good for 55? That reminds me, when was the last time you tried to jump over something? I jump over things all the time.

time, but to his point, and maybe to your point as well, I haven't reached a point where I feel like my body's betraying me yet. Oh, not yet. No. So when you jump over things, what is the height, what are you jumping over? I don't know, like small fence or... How do you jump? Do you jump like two feet same time?

Or do you do like the... No, I don't do like two feet same time. So you can just do like, hurrah, right? Do you do like a static wrap over it immediately? or do you do like a little run up and then jump? I can do both, depending on the height. Oh no, so you're still, the farm is probably keeping you younger. Yeah, so that's a thing.

For the 40s, that's the one. Yeah, but also, I also feel like it depends on how you're treating your body. So I don't like overexert my body. I've never been a guy who's like, you know, running 20Ks a day or anything like. I've never done that. So it's not like I need to, I'm not an endurance athlete. Yeah. You know?

But if I was doing that, then I'm pretty sure like my body. be giving in right now. So, okay, we can no longer do this. But it can definitely walk as often as I used to walk in I was younger. You know what you're explaining makes sense? Because I was watching this thing about people from Hawaii. Like it was a documentary, but it was not about the people.

Someone was just filming something. And I was like, I'd like that you put that. Because before that point, it could just be anything. I was watching this thing about people from Hawaii. And it's like, what is it? So there's some CCTV footage that I somehow hacked into. I got a login. I thought it was my ring doorbell,

but it turned out to be someone else's. And it's in Hawaii. So I watched this thing about these people in Hawaii. And yeah, it's quite interesting, actually. You're going to get me arrested. Stephen gets about three packages a week. It's funny. You see, this is my Danga testimony again.

This guy's going to get me arrested. Let's listen to all of his friends' comments. So I'm like, Polynesian people, they are healthy, but they're not thin. you know what I mean yeah so like they've got six packs

but they're strong they're yeah yeah yeah they move around the food that they eat they start that's the same as like Samoan yeah okay that whole region yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's how I'm saying what you're saying it makes sense because

their pace is they swim they dive they walk they climb they climb they farm so their physique is much like yours do you know what I mean yeah and they're like they don't overexert themselves but they're maximum health, but they're not skinny thin. It's not their thing.

Yeah. And some of that has like to do genetics as well. I'm sure you feel like there's some people when you feel him, they feel sturdy. Yeah, yeah, right? Then other people feel soft. How many men are you feeling, Gantuan? No, it doesn't have to be a man, women as well. Oh.

Haven't you felt this? When you said you had five guys at your father, I was like, yeah, that is one. Let them is anxiety. No, dude, even women. Outing feeling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's women like, you don't even need to feel them.

You can just look at the body like, yo, yeah, yeah. There's other ones here like, okay, seeming padji. Not like in a judgmental way. No, not my judgmental way, but like, even guys are like that also. Guys, not in a judgmental way. Just in a pudgy way. Okay, guys, guys, guys, there is positive padji. You see, this is a negative

Pudgy. No, no, no. By the way, why did you move away from guys? I did that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. I'm not even against these way here. Yeah.

I actually like what you've just brought up. I think in society, we must acknowledge that sometimes the correct word is being used for something. It is not implying any judgments. So when Cizu is saying somebody is pudgy, the reason Pajee exists is because there was Pudginess that had to be addressed. I'm describing the person. He's describing the Pudginess at all. No, no, I feel you. You get what I'm saying.

So Ciswisway is going. I judged him when he said, he feels man. And I was like, no, not just men. I was like, no, not just men. I'm an open mind. I was like, that's why you have got walkie-talk in your room. I'm an open-minded, dude. So guys, so guys, what are you guys thinking about right now?

Yeah, guys, guys, do you have a layer awake and wonder? Just like, just like how the universe would be. If like, you know, what if we're not alone, guys? What if we? We've got more. What now? after this. I mean, imagine the first Zulu guy who said he saw white people coming from the ocean.

Guys must have been like, bra. Yeah. Br, come on. Yo, by the way, what was I before, 95%. I think I'm 90% now on the aliens. You're getting there? Yeah, I think 5%. Wait, what happened?

What do you mean? What do you mean what happened? Okay, maybe Phil's these are in. Yeah, because I'm confused. Okay, so Eugene, 100%. Gene told the story about how in New York he was he went for a walk

and then he saw an alien that's the short version by the way remind me to come back to Eugene in New York but carry on so Eugene saw an alien then he wasn't sure but he's like I think that's an alien followed the person alien they went into a bodega

they were like leaking they were super pale they were translucent they were struggling to breathe it was like an apparatus thing they were wearing like a hoodie they were they sweating yeah man but I'm just giving you yeah but I'm telling you the details Then Eugene faked buying a bottle of water in the bodega

so that he could like, you know, seem like he was doing something. After he paid, left the bodega right behind the alien, turned, alien was gone. Both sides of the block were empty. Alien was gone. So Eugene was like, okay, I've encountered the alien. So I said to Eugene, and as my friend, I'm honest with him, I said, and you know this. So Eugene, I don't believe you saw an alien, okay?

That's what I... But I have to acknowledge the possibility that you saw an alien because I do believe that one day an alien may or may not appear on Earth if they haven't already they haven't already right so I can't say to you that you didn't see an alien

I mean imagine the first Zulu guy who said he saw white people coming from the ocean guys must have been like bra yeah bra come on no let's be honest imagine you were the first the first Zulu guy standing at the beach

and a ship case guys I don't even The Zulu Nation didn't even have ships. They didn't need them. So from the ocean. And the Whitewood took time to come to shore. A floating house. Imagine how crazy you were for weeks.

Then a smaller one comes out of it. So how are you even describing this to your friends? Because it's a thing you've never seen that comes out of a thing you've never seen. And from it come creatures. Like you've read the Zulu, you know this. I mean, you're Zulu. But like when I'd read like the history books, Zulu people are like, yo, these people are sickly and not even human looking.

Yeah. Their skin color, they're like, yo man, it's weird. Because remember, these people, there's no sunscreen. Well, they were sickly because they were malnourished. Yeah, but that's what I mean. But they were malnourished. Their skin was pale. It was burnt from the sun.

They had red hair. They had. So the people were like, the Zulu people were like, yo, man, whatever those are, they're like human adjacent. But imagine being the first guy to bump into them. And then now you run off to tell everybody what you've seen. I wouldn't be shocked if people are like, yo, bra. No, I can believe it.

You know what I mean? So now, wait. So now to your point. So what I was saying to you, Gina? Are you saying that you feel like aliens would come in the future, just maybe not now? Okay, mine is more complicated. So here's how I feel about the alien thing. I don't believe that we are alone in the universe forever.

However, I do believe there's a possibility that we are in the universe alone for the time that humans have existed. Because I think sometimes as humans, we make. the mistake of thinking that the time we are in is always the most important time and the most significant time. Yes. But the truth is all time is significant to anyone who is considering it for themselves. Okay. So think of it like in the simplest way, you go to a person's house, you knock on the door. Nobody answers. For all intents and purposes, there's nobody there. Yeah. Right? You would walk away. Let's think of it before cell phones. You'd walk away. And then you'd meet the person two days later and be like, yo, I was at your house. Where were you?

Then they're like, I was there. Then you're like, no. Then they're like, oh, I stepped out. I went to the shops. Oh, you were there just after I left. And then I came back just after you left. Yes. So in that time, you both existed.

Parallel timelines. But you didn't exist, if that makes sense. Yes, parallel timelines. Right. I'm glad you bring that up because that leads me to my thoughts. So what I'm saying is I believe there's a possibility that we think the aliens are in the same time as us. But we are such a speck of time.

relative to time that I wouldn't be shocked if like the aliens might get to Earth and we're gone the aliens might have come to Earth and we're gone and they're like

there's no one here and then they're gone or they're going to come and be like there's no one here and then they're gone and we're like ah they're out there

maybe they've already existed and gone as a civilization yeah maybe they're asked in the past yeah like they might be gone already

they might be finished or they might be going to arrive and haven't does this make sense yeah 100% that's how I feel about aliens so I agree with you fully, but I then

also feel like if the aliens do exist and they are more advanced, then they've got the ability to I guess exist on two different time planes. So if, for example, you're not on this particular time

continuing. Yeah. But if you've got the ability to time travel, wouldn't you want to come to this time? But time travel is impossible. It's impossible now. I mean, yeah. You don't know if you're not. impossible in the future?

You also don't even know it's impossible in the past. Yeah, you're not wrong, but it's just everyone's like, you're right. The way we understand science right now, it is impossible. And the way we've understood the concept of time traveling.

You're not wrong. Because I think you always think about it as the past or the future. Yes, you're not wrong. Yeah, you're not wrong. Since people introduce the theory of quantum leaping, they always go, people who think positively quantum leap easily. Because you could be in a situation right now

and you're feeling horrible. Yeah. Everything looks horrible. Yes. But when you start thinking positively, everything looks great. Yeah. You've quantum left. So if you saw me 30 minutes ago before I started thinking positively,

you would come back with a notion that I am thinking negatively and I see everything glim. Okay. And then I go, I read a book. I heard a thing. I had a phone call. I changed my mind. Everything is great.

I've quantum left. I've left you in that time zone. I've left you in the timeline where I believe the one thing so much. Yes, but that I understand that theoretically. But that to me is still like perspective. I'm talking about the physical shifting of matter moving backwards or forwards in a time. And again, like I say, you're not wrong.

Guys, there were things that were beyond impossible. But again, you're only thinking about it with our limited understanding. No, that's what I'm agreeing. What if it's not matter? What if it's just backwards? Yeah, that's where I'm agreeing with you on all of it. Yeah. Because we also, even when we imagine aliens, we imagine that have a body.

Yeah. Why would aliens have a body? Yes. What if aliens are the air that we're breathing right now? Yeah. Don't start. You know what I mean? So then...

You think that's air. You're breathing. Yeah. So when I think of it like that, then I think if aliens do exist or did exist, then they are here now. Or they could be at any point. Yes. Because why wouldn't they want to go back? Dude, going back into the past is like the easiest cheat code of anything.

Why do we always assume that they'd be more advanced than us, though? I don't know, it's just an assumption, I guess. Because we always assume that they're come to us. Nobody ever goes, we are going to go to aliens. Yeah, because we haven't even come close to like... 100%. But remember when Elon Musk said he's going to go to Mars and then now he changed it.

Then he's like, guys, you see the moon. You see the moon, guys. If we can just, guys, there's no... In life, because it would say something way greater. I pray that I can achieve. 50% of the skill that Elon Musk possesses in Bangu. Because here's the thing about Elon Musk. Elon Musk is equal parts talent,

vision, and bamboozlement, which might be the perfect combination in life. Yeah. Right? Because I was thinking about this the other day. What was I thinking about? Oh, I was thinking about like electricity itself. And I was going,

when you read the stories about like Nikola Tesla and all of those guys, for all intents and purposes, like a lot of them were dirt bags. You know what I mean? Or we would consider them dirtbags by today's standards. They were even considered then. Even worse.

When you look at who is the guy was competing Edison? Yeah. Competing. Right. But apparently wasn't a nice guy as well. But that's my point. Tesla's electricity was doing great things.

We've seen it. You know what I mean? How he saw electricity and how we should use it. Edison wasn't confident that he can compete head to head. So then he went on a smear campaign. Shut him down. Shut him down. Said, yo, that electricity is going to kill you.

In fact, he convinced prisons to use AC, right? Alternating current and he was like To shock people to death Yeah, to shock people to death Then he's like, do you see what that guy's electricity does? And he's like, direct current is way safer.

Yeah. And then I was going, if he had a social media account back then Yeah. Would probably think of him He'd be the troll. He would be the Elon Musk of now in a way. And then I was like, oh. Okay.

So then I went like maybe people think I don't want to say wrong about Elon Musk but I go he just is how he is and I go the electric cars the way he scales up a company

the way he thinks of building systems brilliant don't take things away from him because you hate him in that way don't be like he's an idiot he's this he's this but there's many other parts social interactions

general you know disposition fashion sense sense is even a strong term to use that is funny And then and then his ability to bamboozle. That's what I put in the other category. So he's a snake oil salesman.

Yes, but the oil is also real. Oh. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's how I think about it. If a snake oil salesman is selling you an oil. He's a snake salesman. No, it is snake oil, but it's like the oil does work for certain things and it will work in certain ways.

Yeah, no, an Alexa for everything. That's where the snake oil. oil pot comes. So Elon will come out and say, guys, I'm going to make a car that drives itself and it'll do it by this year and we're going to make this happen. The advancements he's made, we can't scoff at. However, you shouldn't forget the fact that he bamboozled you about all the other shit. It still doesn't drive itself. It's not people like, no, have you seen self-drive?

No, no, no, no, guys, guys, guys, we've, that's what I'm saying. This bucket, we've gotten very far, way further than most people would have anticipated. However, the thing he promised, you get what I'm saying. Same thing with Mars. he was like, guys, we're going to Mars. We're leaving at 4pm. Everyone was like, well, get ready for Mars! And then 4pm came.

And then he was like, you guys heard about the moon. Then you're like, what has happened here? What has happened here, Elon? We bought our Mars clothes, everything. Right? That's what I'm saying. He's been boozeal. He's brilliant with that.

Brilliant, brilliant. Sills people, even SpaceX now when they were listing, the IPO. If you read the prospectors, it's like to conquer the stars on the moon and to be an intergalactic species that explore. the possibilities. Bamboozlement. Yeah. But you cannot deny SpaceX as fire.

Like the actual product that you use. Yeah. Yeah. That thing is, what's it? What's it called? Starlink. Fire. Starlink is fire. And the rockets fire as well.

Amazing. All of these things are great. But that bamboozlement level, I'm like, ah, man. But so here's the thing. But maybe you need the bambooslement. Exactly. To make the thing happen. So the people that work in the tech space

understand that you can only get any kind of advancement if you have a lofty goal. Ah, so even if it gets shut down, so you reach for the stars and then maybe you fall short, right? And land on the moon. Right. But that's what it takes. You almost have to be crazy first to go, I want to do this.

Right. There we go, that's not possible. Then I'll go, okay, but now let's sit down and think about if it was possible, how would we be able to do it? A lot of the things when they start out, like, dude, this thing is not going to work. They need crazy enough people that are going to be like, Yes, but if it was going to work, how would it work? And then you start there and then you build.

Because there's a lot of things that you wouldn't even attempt if you just looked at the end goal and said, nah, never going to work, we're done. You see, what you're explaining explains exactly how people are starting to accept that aliens might be real. And now with the recent disclosures, it's not even about the flying craft anymore. It's about who's in the flying craft. Yeah. Because remember before, it used to be a thing, when jet propulsion got better, And technology got better.

Yeah. And communication got better. Then we started applying our minds to thinking that this thing could exist. Yeah. But if you go 100 years back, you would find it very hard to convince someone that there's things flying above them. Yes. So you've lost day.

Yeah. Now we go, things do fly at supersonic speed. And you can communicate with someone while going at supersonic speed. Yes. So we go, okay, what are these type of crafts? Then we go, okay, there's things that fly like this. There are things that fly like this. So now we know there's a tick-tag shape.

We know there's a, you know, oh. I mean, I mean, when you see how, what was that, British Airways and Airfronts had it? Concord. Concord, yeah. It was way ahead of its time. It was. 100%. So now if you go, fast forward to now, what we know about intercontinental ballistic missiles

and Starlink and how people can easily communicate. I always say to people, if you want to see how far technology has moved, for five Rand, you can talk to someone in another continent in real time. Yeah. And hear the sound of their voice. Yeah. Because there's kids who don't know what a tell. telephone line sounds like.

Yeah. So I'm saying now that we know that all of these things technologically have advanced to that level, now we go, can you please see what this whole thing is made of? So it's not that we think they're more advanced than us. We go, they might know something that we don't know.

Yeah, okay, that makes sense. You know what I mean? They're not going to come and abduct us and take us to the sky because the sky is no longer our goal now or other planets are no longer our goal because now we understand we're in a solar system. And if you think about how small we are in the solar system and how small our solar system is,

We're like, we don't want to go to the dark. We don't want to go there. We're going, show us what you look like. We've grown to love Earth so much because we have so much. Like, Earth sometimes feels like now to someone who's lived 100 years ago would feel like a house with aircon and a fridge that has endless food. There's no reason to leave it. Right. So now we're going, we don't want to be abducted because we know there's nothing there.

You don't know that. No, no, I'm saying if you look at Earth and you look at our solar system and you look at our Milky Way. You're like, no, I don't want to go to the dark. When Elon Musk goes, we've landed in Mars and we've seen things crashing in the moon, we're like, no, even there, I don't want to go. Do you know what I mean? We know that other planet, what other plans in our solar system look like. And we don't want to go there. So when you go, my neighbor's already struggling.

What would I want to go to another country to live there? Does it make sense? We don't want to go to Mars. We don't want to go to Pluto. We don't want to go there. And it's the closest in our solar system. But even then, it's only because of your limited thinking. And I don't mean limited in a negative way or disrespectful way.

Yeah, yeah. It's just where we are. You can only envision life the way you've always known it, right? Yeah, but if there's another type of life that perhaps is more conducive to the environment. Here's a good thing. And I think you're saying the same thing. To put it this way, correct. Who would have thought that they would ever go live in Dubai?

Yeah, you're right. Think of that on a low level, right? Yes. This place was literally nothing. It was sand. Yes. And in like our general lifetime we're talking about. We're not talking about hundreds of years.

years, it was sand. People discover oil. Some parts they discover gas. The next thing you know, they embark on the most impressive building campaign. We've probably never seen anything like that in the modern era. Probably never, yeah. Well, you will now. Roads, highways, water systems, skyscrapers, living man-made islands.

They just go, if you told somebody to your point back then, hey, we're going to make land come out of the ocean and then we're going to put houses on it. And you'd be like, yo, that's alien technology. You can't do that. You can't live in the Middle East. And then we're going to have trains that fly above the ground. You get on the same.

So I'm agreeing with you in that like, we wouldn't want to go live in Dubai because that's what Caesar is saying is like, what we've seen, we go like, you can't live on Pluto. Then they're like, why not? then you're like, because Pluto doesn't have the atmosphere. Then they're like, why don't just make the atmosphere? Then we're like, oh, we didn't know you can make atmosphere.

And even that is too limited. That's funny. No, but I'm saying we didn't even know. They might be like, no, dude. But the aliens are like, guys, you guys are living on the earth? But remember that. We live in the planet. Yeah, you see now.

We take for granted how, you know, the word physical limitation is used loosely. But if you think about in a broader spectrum, we want to take our bodies everywhere. So the only reason. why we won't survive elsewhere is because this thing won't take us there. You know what I mean? We won't see it with our own eyes. So if you think about...

But when I say to you, do you want to use my VR? You say no. See, I like how you understand these concepts when you're doing it now. Yeah. But when I say Eugene... When I'm like, Eugene,

do you want to, then Eugene is like, what am I doing with this? But wait, why don't you want to use VR? Jaille, why? This guy's just like, Eugene will just be like, ah, yeah. Some things, he's just like,

you know, when I feel it, I want to... So that's what I'm saying, Gutsi, we think, wrote about the future and technology and robots way backwards in fiction sense. But there's one thing that he said. He said, we must just be careful that our human body limitation makes us want everything to look like a human.

So one things to have limbs. And so even when we're writing aliens and fiction, we want them to have. But it says the perfect, the perfect robot or alien will not have a human torso shape. That's already limiting. So you take, so someone who did that well and used it, but without telling us that he's using here, there's George Lucas when they're doing Star Wars. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So if you think of C3PO versus R2D2. Yep. C3PO is R2D2 is the perfect robot. One who looks like a vacuum cleaner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He doesn't have legs, he's around and he can scan and look everywhere.

But you see how clumsy R2D2 is. Yes, because like, with cars, right? Yeah, because this body cause was actually a great one. Yeah. Because it's just three blocks that just Like modular.

Yes. But when you need us to do things. If we're honest, all you really need is to be able to like move. Yeah. And then you must be witty. Yes.

By no wittiness. That's necessary though. Let's be honest. All of them. C3PO. Witty. Witty. R2G2.

R2 will roast you with those sounds. Doesn't even talk. Then you're like, how can you say that about my mom, R2D2? Brat R2D2 will roast people in Star Wars with beeping sound. Do you know how witty you have to be? Do you?

Witt. Witt is a more interesting. B. Bap. You, R2D2 could cock block you on a date, son. You'd be there rolling with R2D2. Someone would be like, oh, so what do you do for a living? Then it would be like, b'b, bha, bha, bha.

And she's like, actually, I don't think I want to talk to you. Yo, that's wit. Do you know what levels of Taz is the same thing? Taz is three blocks. But I'm telling you now, after like an hour of hanging out with Tad, you're like, no, Taz. Actually, I want to introduce you to my human friends. Run, swim, everything. Wait, wait, wait, who's Taz?

Do you remember interstellar? I don't know what I haven't watched. You've never watched interstellar. No. Fana, you know what I love about you? You give me the opportunity to watch my favorite movies again. I was thinking about this. Here's the paradox about Eugene, right?

Eugene is inquisitive enough to make himself interesting. But also, no, I'm serious. But also hood enough to be ignorant. For real, bro. Because this guy who tells you. I don't know you like V.R. Justin. You go, what?

What is this? But then you'll tell you about the Polynesian people. Bro. Yeah. That's so funny, bro. No. Okay, tell me about it. Does the hell?

No, we're going to watch it. We're saving it? We're just going to watch it. We'll watch it. It's one of... Let's watch it today. It's one of the best movies. We're not leaving here until...

Well, we're leaving here. But we're not leaving... Okay, we're watching. Yeah. Hell Mary was fire as well. I knew I had Hail Mary. You haven't seen it. But it just came out.

But it just came out. And I don't think it's on the scale of interstellar. I don't think, let me put it as well. I don't think Hail Mary will change your life. I think Interstellar can change your life. Or your perspective on life or the way you see things, et cetera. Hail Mary is a fantastic movie. But I don't think it's a, you know, there's movies that.

Now I've got a question. There's movies that like shift your perspective. They shift the way you see the world. They even, they can shift the lexicon. They can shift the Overtin window. Like, I argued the Matrix did that. Yeah. The fact that people...

You turned me back onto that thing and I was like, Jesus, I watched it. People still talk about red-pilled, blue-pill, and they don't even know what the Matrix is. You've been red-pilled. You've been blue-pilled. It's like, have you asked the Matrix? No, what's that? You're like, that's what you're literally what you're talking about. Yeah. So the Matrix did that.

I would argue Interstellar did that. I actually think Batman, Dark Night Rises did that. Yes, yes. Do you know what I mean? And then there's obviously like that reintroduced like superhero movies. But there's also like old movies. Obviously I'm, you know, now it's recency bias because I've been rewatching these. Which by the way, actually that's something I want to talk to you guys about.

But when you you look at these movies, interstellar is one of those where once you've watched it, it will occupy some part of your brain forever. And something will always trigger that memory or that thought. You'll be like, oh, this this reminds me of interst like it'll always do that. Always always, always. Yeah, can't wait. Always, always, always. Do you ever wonder where this guy gets time to watch

this much TV and movies? Yeah, I know, he wakes up at 12, so in between. There's those catlers. Because I'm really, bro, like him and Anhele, these guys know every character in every show. They've seen every movie. I'm like, where do you get the time for this? No, but on a plane, I'm a beast, bro.

You can't beat me on an airplane. I don't watch on an airplane. I sleep on a plane. Ha, bruh. While you sleep, we grind. That is funny. Guys, let me tell you my system. When I get on a plane, the first thing I do, obviously I go to movies, new releases,

then the new planes now, most of them, they let you choose your favorites. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I go and I put bookmarks on all of them. I go bookmark, bookmark, bookmark. I plan it out. And then I'll even go, okay, you can always start with this kind of movie. Because you know, like you must remember, you're going to be, you're going to be experiencing less oxygen on the flight. So you don't want to concentrate later on.

That's when you're going to struggle. Oh, sequencing. Sequencing is important. Sequencing is very important. in your movies on a plane are really important oh wow i see people fall asleep all the time watching like a movie that's me like five hours in they put in a complicated

movie then i'm like ha ha amateur amateur emma there you are sleeping now the plots moving then you wake up with the spoiler huh huh oh what it was his father you're an amateur bro you're an amateur so what you do is do don't start with high concentration no what you do is you start with the most complicated difficult movie the drama the sci-fi whatever that

is that's going to require your capacity, you start with that movie. Because you're still fresh. Right. Then the food is going to come while that movie is on. So the food is also going to, you remember, gets your system going to sleep just like while you're eating. So your furnace goes.

Your brain's also like, I'm getting fuel. Concentrate you're concentrating on concentrate. Movies going to end generally around after the meal. Right. Then your sugar is going to start crashing now. Right. Now, difficult time to start another movie. Now people get confidence.

They go, I'll just watch this movie. Let me jump to another complicated one. Big mistake. Blood sugar is crashing, buddy. What you do now is put on a simple light comedy something that doesn't require your brain. Light comedy, good times,

enjoy it, have a good time, superhero film, crash boom bang, your brain is not concentrating too hard, you're going to enjoy yourself. If you are able to stay up past that movie, then you can start getting into like indies, you start getting into a film that like

has got like a different pace, got a different vibe. What do you put documentaries in all of this? Because before we get to the end, My man, I can't watch documentaries on a flight. Oh, I love them. I can't leave the earth to go back to it. Come on, brother.

Come on, brother. I'm free. Now you want me to know what's happening. Brow. Now I'm here learning about the gangs of Brazil. Because I'm in the sky. I'm in the sky, bro. The problems are on the ground, bro.

When I get back to the ground, that's when I watch documentaries. I like to watch documentaries because I'm like, yo, this shit is happening outside. When I'm in the sky in clouds. Like, where would I, let's say, because I get to get a, No, no, bro, you don't watch documentaries on a plane. Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy. You don't watch documentaries.

Why would you do that? Well, I don't watch anything. You're spoiling the plane vibes. But like, dark, stiffy not. Not not on a plane, bro. Don't watch documentaries on a plane. There's a reason they're even like in a weird category. You have to scroll multiple pages.

Don't do that. Watch documentaries at home. Because also with dokeys, you may want to research certain things. There you go. How are you researched you want to play? I believe the direct. Way. Nah, brother.

Don't watch a documentary. Don't watch... I mustn't even get it. Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this. But the thing I go to is I'm like,

you're going to run around beating foreigners for being in South Africa. People who are undocumented, let's say, illegal, whatever you want to say, okay? And legal.

But let's focus on the illegal part of it. But then you're not beating the people who are letting people come into the border with fake papers or not even... You get what I'm saying? So what was your question about Eugene with New York.

Yeah, so I actually wants to find out how much do you enjoy it? Because your vibe is kind of New York vibe, right? Yes. So how do you feel in the city? You know what I've realized about that place is it becomes

anything that you wanted to become. Okay. Sorry, sorry, carry on, Eugene. Sorry, yeah. I don't de Jules my friend that didn't want us. I need you as a business partner. So it feels like anything that you want it to be can be.

If you want to work, you can work. If you want to hang out, you can hang out. If you want to do nothing, you can do nothing. You know what I mean? There's few places that unless you live in an estate and you are well off, that you can have that type of freedom. Not even, but I hear you. Does that make sense?

Yeah, I think you can't even, but carry on. Yes. but there, it almost feels like everything is happening now. So if there's things that I, I stop myself from doing because I'm like, no, I've done too much now. But you hate concrete jungle vibes. You love like aimless drives. You like riding your bike and seeing nature and outdoors and all those things. Central Park, is guys always there?

Oh, yeah, actually. When you are inside Central Park, you don't even know a city exists. Yeah. There's literally parts in New York where you forget. and not because you're faking it. You cannot see a building. You cannot see like the trees completely engulf you. Yeah, no, what you said is I think the most accurate way to describe it.

And you see, for people like you and I, you love the outdoors. But then the reverse happens with people like us. We love the outdoors, but we also prefer the comfort of being inside. That place forces you not to prefer the comfort of inside. Do you know what I mean? Like I never thought it would make sense for people to live in a one bedroom apartment in you. Oh yeah, yeah.

People are always confused about that. Yeah. You and I would die in a one bedroom apartment. Yeah. But there you're like, no, there's so much, the outside is bigger and I love it. And the inside can be small because I'm not going to be here for long. Do you mean? No, yeah.

Yeah. The point of your abode is very different. Very, very different. So I think once I accepted that into my head, I was like, oh, okay, I see now. I've got to be out on the streets. Yeah, if I want to experience this, it's out there. So here I've learned over the years to create everything in. inside. Do you know what I mean?

But there it's like, ah, man. Plus when he saw an alien, he was like, ah, this is my place now. I knew. Yeah. Because Eugene was like, I'm not going to see an alien in South Africa because an alien knows it wouldn't come here because it doesn't trust our xenophobia. That is funny. That is funny. Would you come here if you're an alien? Guys, I've never been more disappointed, guys.

Can I tell you what disappointed me? Can I tell you what disappointed me? In both ways, no? In both ways was this. This is the thing. And I mean this honestly. One. Aliens. No.

Oh, sorry. I'm always surprised when I see like anti- xenophobia campaigns. But like anyway, when- No, xenophobic campaigns or anti- xenophobic campaigns? Oh, no, no. So let's go, xenophobic. Yeah, you're right, you're right. When I see like campaigns where people are just like beating up foreigners and stuff like that.

Especially when the reasons people are giving, there's like the small version and the big version of the thing. So what I mean by it is like, I would love it if those same mobs were also at Parliament beating people who steal money from the government. Right. Does that make sense? Carry on. You want the same energy?

Yeah. So this is what bothers me sometimes. It's like I feel like, and we do this in society, it's like we will lash out at the people who are closest to us and the people who we feel like we can lash out the most at. Soft targets. The soft targets, but we won't lash out at the people who are more responsible for the thing that is happening to us.

You said this You used It was a beautiful saying that you said once About a black woman for instance You said when a black man and a black woman Can you remember it how do you say it It's like when a black man and black woman are in the street Stones are being

Okay so essentially like The analogy is So you got a black woman And a black man They're in a very safe environment Everything is cool Then when they walk out into the streets They feel like they're getting pelted

Yes Right And they're getting pelted both of them are getting pelted. And they're rushing to get back home. Refuge. Yeah, exactly. And they rush and they rush.

Obviously, they're bleeding. And as soon as they get back into the house, the man breathes a sigh of relief, right? But the woman continues being pelted. Exactly. Because now, not only was she dealing with racism outside, she's now dealing with patriarchy inside the house. So she's still not safe.

Yeah. So what I was... That's deep, man. Yeah. And that when he said that, That's stuck with me forever. It makes no my sense. You're right.

Because it's like, not as an excuse, but a lot of the time, men who are dealing with a world that they can't control will then lash out on the people they can control inside their house. So they'll beat their wives, they'll beat their women, they'll beat their kids, they'll beat, you get what I'm saying. But it's because, not because, that's what I'm saying, I'm not like blaming it. I'm not trying to pathologize it. But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they have so little control in the world

that this is the one place where they can be like, I am the boss and I'll show you. And it's like, yeah, but why don't you show there? Why don't you show your boss? Why don't you show the authorities? Why don't you show the system that's oppressing you in that way? You know, you can't mess around. Yeah.

So what you're doing is you're lashing out on the soft targets. So I'm saying the thing that bothered me was just this is like, I always find it interesting that there's all these massive campaigns. And again, I understand the nuance of it. Yeah, absolutely. I understand the nuance of it. frustration, inequality, crime. Yeah, crime, abusing of a system, for instance.

Seeing systems that are already strained, crippling, because you see people abusing it. I get, I understand all of that. But the thing I go to is I'm like, you're going to run around beating foreigners for being in South Africa, people who are undocumented, let's say, illegal, whatever you want to say, okay? And legal. But let's focus on the illegal part of it.

But then you're not beating the people who are. letting people come into the border with fake papers or not even, you get on saying. So in theory, though, here's a thing. This is where the difference is. In theory, what you're saying makes sense. In reality, the world doesn't work like that. But that's why, and I agree with you, that's why I'm saying I get frustrated by it. Right?

So my frustration does not negate the realities. My frustration is only an expression of how I feel when I see the thing. Yes. Because I go, guys, no matter where you, and, and you know, I will say, say, I think I would have thought of this very differently had I not lived in America for almost like, whatever, 15 years somewhere there.

Seeing how people's views on immigration so easily sway and swing, just depending on their life situation, it's pretty amazing. When America's doing well, when border towns are doing well,

when employment is good, when inflation isn't high, when things are, yo, bro, immigration is like, not even a concern in people's... I was thinking about it. Guys, in the zeit guys, it's not a thing. It's not a thing. Then people start thinking about like ephemeral ideas.

Yeah, our security in the world. The way we, you know, our military's growth and strength. No, watch what happens when inflation goes up. People stop caring about military and outside. They're like, yo, forget that. We've got to get rid of immigrants here and there's too many of them. Then you're like, okay, well, how are they too many? What happened from before?

And I'm arguing that they notice something or something becomes less easy to ignore or harder to accept as part of your world because now you feel like it is the reason, the reason. It might be a contributing factor, but it's not the reason. And so that's why I'm just saying my frustration would be seeing that. Now, the reason I agree with you on a reality is this.

This is now the part of my brain, I guess, that makes me a comedian, is I also see I love nothing more than incongruencies. You know this. So I found it funny. that not what was happening but I found it funny that while these things were happening in South Africa Africans

Ghana, Nigeria, whatever they were like, screw you South Africans you guys must leave our countries you guys are trash we're not going to support your artists you mustn't come here, you mustn't then I was like wait wait wait my brother are you not doing the exact same thing

that you are now that you are complaining about because you have said why are you ostracizing and victimizing every Nigeria and every Ghanaian and every African there. We know that some Nigerians are involved in crime. We know that some of our brethren from Zimbabwe slash whatever

are involved in illicit activities. But it's not all of them. So how are you going around indiscriminately beating everybody and sending them all home? Then I was like, yes, but how ironic is it that you have now turned and done the exact same thing to South Africans that are in your country? But I understand the reasons are different.

I understand. Yeah. And you know, you and I always have. this discussion about morals is I go, if you believe in the thing, if you say you should not scapegoat an entire group of people because you are unable to

it's like burning down your entire garden because you're angry at some of the weeds. Yeah, yeah, there are weeds. But if you've worked in a garden, I remember when I did with my mom, she'd be like, we have to go and find the weeds. And I was like, this is tedious, bro. Yeah, let's just destroy this whole thing.

Then my mom's like, okay, so what? We're just going to have no garden then. Having a garden comes with weeds. You can have no garden, then there's no weeds but there's also no flowers, there's also no grass, there's also no trees, there's also nothing else. So the two go hand in hand with each other, right? So what I'm saying is it was interesting to me

that in like a not even in a long period of time you just had literally Nigerians being like, oh, South Africa, you can't go, you can't, I don't want to hear. We're going to find you where you are performing, we're going to find you what you are doing. Then I was like, but my brother, you're doing the exact same thing that you're complaining about now. The exact same thing.

and I understand it on a logical level funny enough but I also go it's also funny and illogical at the same time when I see the 18 you live in farms and you know so here's the thing right if we get into the minutiae of it the points that you raised like I said some of them stand but then

some of them actually don't correlate because the reason why for example let's say a Nigerian or a Kenyan person would have felt that way about a South African is able to say that they were provoked to get to that feeling, right? So it's what I was saying.

They're saying the reason. They can justify it like that. Yes, but everyone's justifying it. Likewise, even a South African who's saying illegal immigrants, you know, they're not, so, yeah, they'll give you a reason about jobs, for example, and how

the healthcare is getting throttable in South Africa and how we don't have, have enough just even for ourselves, right? So how now we're accommodating other foreign national? Right. But at the number of it is people were saying the illegal ones was going. Nobody was saying if somebody was here, for example, with the correct papers, they were willing to accept that.

Right. Now, to your point about why it is that they didn't go and beat up silver around a postal, for example, or parliamentarians, just because they haven't got the power to the access to be able to do that. Yeah. The same reason why people, exactly. And that's why people, where people are unhappy. they'll burn a school.

Yes. It's the very same school that they need for their community, right? Yeah. But they complain about service delivery, but they'll burn the place that needs the service. And now there's fewer services. I'm completely with you. But the reason why they do it is one out of frustration, but also because they've seen that no government official is going to come here

until a school is burning. Yeah. And only then will I get access to these people. So that's why it's so difficult to lead people, right? Because there's actually no generalization, none whatsoever. not on an individual level. And even when you get there, different people have different opinions.

You can change your mind between what we had and discussed today to what we're discussing tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And how you feel about it will change. So that's why, for me, it's just all is very difficult when it comes to matters like that. You both are absolutely right from these two different angles. And I think, um, what the media,

I was just making an alien joke. And now, hey, we got deep, bro. We got deep. What the media did very, That's funny My man Wait, no Cizua, I swear

You know If all the three of us worked in a job No, we've got shi lebaner now And it's funny You know what Our exit interview is going to be They're going to sit You and I down,

Ciswe After he left The room And they're going to say Guys, if you guys just focus Njee You guys would have gone long Far in this company

They should say this to all my friends in school And then his His ass is going Outside going Damn funny. Sorry, but you were saying, no, you were saying. So what the media does,

what the media does very well is to take a slogan or a line and make it the whole entire protest. Yeah, yeah, but that's everywhere in the world. Yeah, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. What they did, how they did South Africa dirty here, the media, is saying, Mabahamba. No, Mabahambi is about jobs.

Then you go, no, it's about the system. First of all, if you say foreigners, I hear taking our job, there has to be jobs to be taken. first. Right? Yeah. But, and then everyone goes, no, if they get employed in the formal sector, it's impossible to employ them because they're not the correct papers. So therefore, that theory does not hold water. And that's what was fed to South Africans when they're upset. Until now, labor inspectors, because of whistleblowers, started going to these factories and finding illegal immigrants working there under slave labor conditions. Yeah, under slave labor conditions. Yeah,

so you're like, oh, so there are in farms. There are jobs, got like, gosh, so these are jobs we're talking about. And then the farmers... The jobs you were saying weren't there, are there. And now they're being turned... They're not even being kept as jobs. They're being turned into slave labor.

And the mine, and artisanal mining. Now, all of a sudden, those people turned and gassed the whole country and said, okay, guys, they must all go. Then this farm is going to shut down, eh?

This, you don't like my zimbas? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, time I'm a keep... I must copass, yeah? Because, you know, when I knew... And there was at one weekend, with people like, guys, everything is closed. You remember?

Yeah, Kumbud. And then whenever labor inspectors visit these factories and visit these farms and say, you guys are contravening the labor laws of this country. You are fueling the problem. They would say, okay, guys, then I'm going to shut my factory down. Then everyone must just go home. And then I'm not going to supply blankets and, you know,

mascopas and my Zimbabas. So now we were guest lit, but no one in the media came out and said, you guys were right for the fact that legal immigrant. And migrant laborers won't come to a country. if there's no labor to be done. So if they're not working somewhere, they won't live in a country. That's actually, I would argue that's a fair session.

Yes, but as someone who lives their country because they're looking for greener pastures will not build a shack in Cosmo and not work anyway. A shack is a result of someone being employed close to where the shack is. So everywhere where you see informal settlement, it's called informal settlement for a reason. And even farmers in certain places around here

have gone so far as, electrifying those places. They're the ones who put electricity there. They're the ones who put money together to get containers and put schools there. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm like, you are the problem. So no one has come to us,

South African, and said, sorry, we characterized your protest and your anger wrongly. But that's what I mean is like, so look, the main thing, and I think we can all agree on this is. Yeah. One of the things the media has done particularly bad, especially like, if we talk about like mainstream media. Right. All over the world.

All over the world. All over the world. not just here, is because a lot of media has to generate income and like a profit, it then unfortunately becomes subject to the levers of profits. Right. What did Charlie Munger say? Show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome. Without fail, if you say the purpose of this institution is to make money,

then it will make money at all costs. The same way we've seen with AI, if you say to an AI, do this, it will get there using a path that we never anticipated as humans. We're like, no, no, we didn't want you to do it. Like, we wanted you to pass the test by studying. It's like, oh, I just hacked the other company and now I passed the test. We're like, ah, we didn't think AI would do that. But AI is like, yeah, but you just told me to pass the test.

So the same thing goes for media or any institution, if you give it an incentive. Your job is to make money. Then it'll go, how do you make money? What does it do? It starts looking for clickbait. It starts looking for, um, stories that are interesting. I remember talking to a war

photographer. She's traveled all over the world. She's taken some of the most impactful images. She was saying there's pictures that she's taken from parts of Palestine, from parts of like Western Africa, from parts of Asia, that her bosses at

newspapers have gone. We're just not going to use them right now because we don't think that sells. But even beyond that, doesn't sell. Yeah, they just go. It doesn't sell. as they are. So they go, here's the thing. So they go, you know what sells?

Why would you be surprised about that? Because you're working on the assumption that, I guess, news outlets are there to disseminate news, but they're not. Because they were in many ways. Disseminate news in a profitable manner. Yeah, and that's what it's become. So a story that doesn't sell is worthless. And you know what?

You know what doesn't sell? You know what doesn't sell? You know what doesn't sell? Nuance. Nuance is the most boring thing in the world. And yet it's the fundamental foundation for society. to exist. To what Caesar said, no group of people is the same. Go into a group. Even going to a group, like, let's say you find a mob of people beating somebody who's done something. And you go into that

mob, you're like, this mob is all in agreement. Then say to the whole mob, do you all agree we should kill them? Someone would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we shouldn't kill them. They just stole something. We should beat them? We should beat them until they go to hospital? Someone's like, ah, yeah, that's too much. Someone's just like, yeah, they must go to, all of a sudden, the group is not a group anymore. Discourse has started, yeah. But more importantly, it's harder to now tell that story who are those people because the story leads you in a great area

so a story that leaves you with no emotion is like whatever bro and there's no bottom line so how do you sell that one? Because who's the story? What's the story? There was a group of people who apprehended somebody who may have stolen something they all felt like the person should be subject to justice

but each of them had a different definition of how that justice should be doled out some felt like it should be really extreme Others felt this is no longer It's easy to go That mob was trying to kill that guy Leave it there You're with me

And I think that thing The more news Becomes about profits The more news continues to be about profit It's going to be that We even seen it on the internet How many internet videos do you watch Just look at the title of YouTube clips

Everything doctors have told you is a lie Everything is giving you cancer Football is a scam Like it's just like big. Yeah, but what I'm saying is... And you know what makes it even worse, right? What makes it even worse is the fact that even if you do have the right idea. So let's say there was somebody out there who was idealistic and they wanted to just disseminate news.

They wouldn't be able to survive long enough. No. Because it requires capital to be able to do that. And you're only going to get that sustainably if you are making a profit. If you're a news organization and you're making a loss, you end up asking for donations. Yeah, you're gone, bro. Oh, bro.

Come on. You're gone. What are you doing this for? You're gone. You're just at the mercy of the thing. Capitalism, my friend. It always wins. Let's go watch that movie, bro.

You're going to feel way better. You're sure? My man. Interstellar. You're going to realize, Eugene, that what we're experiencing already happened and is going to happen and didn't even happen yet. And you'll never look at a bookshelf the same.

Chris Nolan, if you're watching this. The next one must be about us. What? Movie, some. I'm honest. I like the lofty thinking. I like that you call it lofty. Think about it.

Cesar said it. He said you must aim for the stars. Okay. And if you crash land. I don't mean astri. Oh, no. That's what I thought. That's what I thought.

No. What do you mean? This region of the world. Oh. That's not. Yeah, we can get Christopher Nolan to make... No, that's not... I thought you were saying Christopher Nolan...

Why are you... Guys, guys, Christopher Nolan must make a shit about us. Let's leave the Africa. Africa can sort itself out. Tina... See what... No, honestly, why would Christopher Nolan even make a movie? No.

That's why I thought it was lofty. I thought you were doing the same thing. You aim for Christopher Nolan. You're like, yo, Christopher Nolan, make a movie about us. And then we hope it's Tala Perry. This region of the world Africa Everything would be disgusting

And then every time Christopher Norman picks up their phone to dial us You say, well we're fine Then he goes Oh okay they are fine We're not fine men Let's do it

We'll do it No we're let's go watch the movie This has been fun This is dope Let's go Interstellar Let's do it Let's go

What Now with Trevor Noah Is produced by Day Zero Productions In partnership with Sirius XM The show is executive Produced by Trevor Noah Sanaziamen and Jess Hackle.

Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Paduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now?