What Now? with Trevor Noah - The Heaviest Bag of Chips in Japan

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Trevor’s in Japan with his good friends Anele Mdoda and Khaya Dlanga. Together they dissect cultural taboos, savor otherworldly grapes, and marvel at toilets that’ll blow your mind, all while trying to find the balance between society and self. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Thank you very much for being on the podcast. We agree with that respectful. You guys have been in Japan how long now? A week. And how much Japanese have you learned? All the Japanese I've learned has been food. Kaya-san sushi is not speaking Japanese. No, I mean eating it.

Oh wait, I can say Yamazaki. That's a whiskey. Exactly, still Japanese though. You're listening to What Now? The podcast where I chat to interesting people about the conversations taking over our world. This week, we're coming to you from Japan. Yes, the sushi is as incredible as everyone says it is. And yes, people do rarely line up single file

to get on the subway. But this trip has made me question a lot of my belief. And not just about this country, but about us as human beings. Like when should we hang on to what we believe in or who we think we are? And when is it time to change? If you know anything about me, you'll know

there's nothing I love more than questioning my own beliefs and getting some of my closest friends to question them with me. And to do that, I'm joined by two of my oldest, dearest friends and best travel buddies. The official mascot of the Beyoncé fan club, Anel M. Dorda, all the way from South Africa. And another friend of mine for more than a decade, the well-read and a little too intelligent, Kaya Langer. He also has the best laugh. This is What Now with Trevor Noah. I do. Enjoy the number one feeling. Winning in an exciting live dealer studio,

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and has notes of rose and cherry crème for a rich indulgent experience. Treat your senses with new Olay Indulgent Moisture Body Wash. Buy it today at major retailers. Happy podcast day. This is a special episode of the podcast because if you listen to the podcast a lot, you'll know that I have my closest friends from South Africa. We've been friends for going on 20 years. And for my 40th birthday, we did a special episode where we just talked about friendship, life, us being together, who we are, how we know each other and everything. And it was myself, Anelie and Sizue. Sizue is not with us on this trip. He stayed in Johannesburg to work. So we have

our other friend who was actually, you were standing while we were recording. Kaya was in the background laughing and people were asking, what is that? They're like, is that a South African bird? The harira. There's the sound. That's the classic sound. So, yeah, so I thought, you know what, since the people love hearing what's going on in our lives, I thought we would bring them into something that we've sort of made a tradition, which is our travels. Twice a year. At the very least. At the least. And I mean, what a travel to tell people about because we're now in Japan, people. Well, as you see now, this podcast has happened with me and you in it, right?

Japan has also happened with you and you in it, right? Yes. Japan has also happened with you and I in it. That's true. This is our second time. Yeah, Kaya's new to Japan. This is your first time, Kaya. Yes. How has it been for you?

It has been fantastic. Right. It has been really, really good. Very different culture because we loved. Yes. There have been a number of times where we have been asked to just... I don't think we've been asked. We've been looked at. Oh yes.

Oh, oh, but in Kyoto, you know how our friend, Tonisa, will randomly shout out something, right? Yes. So we were in... Remember the bar we were at in Kyoto? The final bar. On the sixth... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Tonisa goes,

Um... YAAA GOOOOO! They literally, Trevor, they came up to the table and they didn't say anything. They just like kind of put their hands like, you know, press. Oh, they were like, yeah, bring it down. Yeah, they bring it down. Bring it down. Do you know what I like about it though? It's, there's no malice. They come and they do that and he walks right off. Whereas I think as South Africans, we want to square up, you know? Oh yeah. You know, you're like, oh, you're giving me the eye. I can give you the eye right up. You know? You're like, oh, you're giving me the eye?

I can give you the eye right back. You know, my favorite thing about being in Japan is that it's one of the last places in the world that I feel is its own place. For better and worse, I will say. Once I was able to travel the world, once we were able to travel, I would notice that countries would sort of bleed into each other. You'd be in Spain, you'd feel like you're sort of in Germany. You know what I mean?

You'd be in Peru and a lot of it might feel like you're in Argentina, slash somewhere else. In Chicago, the architecture is like Berlin. Yes, yes. You feel the overlaps. I think Japan is like you are coming to our home. And therefore you'll do the things that we do in our home. You eat what we eat.

Okay, so you know what I think it is, and that's part of why I wanted to have this conversation. One of the many things I love about traveling with you guys is that we oftentimes will find a thread between the experience we're having, the people we're meeting, the places we're in, and how it ties into our lives. And I felt like in the strangest way, Japan almost makes you ask a few larger questions than just travel questions. And like one of the overarching questions I found Japan kept on making me ask is, at what point should you bend to accommodate others?

And at what point do you say that, no no this is who I am or this is who we are and this is the way that we're going to stay. Because when you travel around Japan, when you're in the train cars, they tell you to be quiet. In an elevator they say, please keep to yourself. In a restaurant, don't disturb other people. Even in restaurants, notice how they don't like serving big groups. As soon as it's more than four of you, it's a flat panic.

Yeah. There's a bar we went to in Tokyo where they straight up said, we only take two people. And we're like, what do you mean you only, and the bar was empty. And they said, we only take two people. And so what we did was we all went outside. And we came back two by two. With Noah's ark. No, but can I tell you, this is the irony of like how logical Japan is. We thought, because if you did that to me, if I owned a bar and I said, hey, I only take twos, no bigger group.

And you came in a six. If you all came in drips and drabs, I'd be like, yo, you idiots, I know how to count. It's the same six. Get out. came in and drips and drabs, I'd be like, yo, you idiots, I know how to count. It's the same six. Get out. No, here they were like, you have followed the rule. And they looked at us like we cannot do anything to you, because you have followed the rule. Yeah, it's almost like you know, the TSA thing. Yeah, when you're flying, you know, airport security, they go, you're only allowed to bring 3.4 ounces or 100 milliliters. So if you can, but if you bring three bottles,

you can bring two liters if you want. You can bring like your whole village worth of shampoo. If you just wanted to break it up. They love. They are. I mean, I remember, look, when we were crossing, I almost said the robot, hey, this is a new thing. The traffic light.

The traffic light. It was red. There were no cars on the road. Don't you dare. And we crossed, okay? And then this car from a distance starts moving. Bop-bop! We would have literally been out of sight for that car by the time it came.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. But it was still a thing. He was so offended. I like the fact that the rules are not only upheld by officials, but by the citizens themselves. And I feel like that's something I would like for South Africa because I have been dying to make a citizen's arrest. You know if you were in America, I feel like you'd be one of those people.

I would. Who has a gun and goes up to other people's cars and stuff. I'm holding you here till the police come. I'm holding you here till the police. Don't move. Don't move. Do not move. That's what I feel like you would be doing.

Absolutely. I don't know. Okay, so here's the police don't move don't move do not move that's what I feel like you'd be doing absolutely I don't know I okay okay so here's the thing on the one hand I think it's really beautiful that Japan has this idea of rules and following them and everybody has to do the right thing but there's a downside to it right and you can see which tourists is here on day one and which tourists is here on day seven yeah because they want tourists like oh my god that's so it's so different oh my god and then day seven tourists are like, oh my God, that's so different. Oh my God. And then day seven tourists are like, but that doesn't make sense. But it doesn't make sense. I just don't understand.

It doesn't make sense. And both are true by the way. I believe, and I mean, being our second time here as well is that I've never seen a more extremist culture in my life. Yes. And they live a life of two extremes where it's work, extremely hard, extremely long hours, you know, where at work you are void of personality outside of service. And then when they let loose and you know, then it's, you know, it's beverages,

it's drinks, it's party time, it's, it's, it's their time. They also go so far out that I almost, I almost look and I'm like, how are you going to get back to work tomorrow? Yeah, people are folded over. Like in Tokyo, people are so wasted. They have origami themselves. I saw people like literally heads up by ankles. You know what I mean?

But wait, going backwards, so let me ask you this question. I ask this culturally and I also ask this just personally. How do you find moments in your life where you go, I should actually change, this is me, but I should change it. And then how do you know the difference between the things you should change and the things you shouldn't change? if you travel to Japan you're gonna come to a country where in my opinion you're gonna be shocked at how advanced they are in so many things and then seemingly behind in others. You know what I mean like there's parts of the train station that feel like you're

in the year 3000 and then there's other parts where you're using like a kiosk that feels like it's from 1987 yeah and they haven't upgraded it yeah you know what the year 3000. And then there's other parts where you're using like a kiosk that feels like it's from 1987. Yeah. And they haven't upgraded it. Yeah. You know what the whole of Japan feels like to me? It feels like Star Wars. That is...

Have you ever watched Star Wars? No, I have not, but... You've seen the scenes though. That is... Which one is Star Wars? Star Wars... No, no, no, no, no, no. That's Star Trek.

That's Star Trek. Don't do that again. If you watch... Oh, Gudo, Udo, Yudo, Yoda. Yes, Yoda. Yoda. I was gonna get there. Yeah, you were gonna get there eventually. Yeah. If you watch... Udo, Udo, Yodo. Yes, Yoda. Yoda. Yoda was going to get there. Yeah, you were going to get there eventually.

But that's what it feels like. It feels like in Star Wars. That is perfect description. Everything feels like state of the art. They got spaceships, they got lightsabers, they've got lasers, they've got... But then, like the doors and the people... Yeah, they're walking dark in the freaking bar. They don't have sewerage.

Yeah, the damn sewerage is crazy. But they've got lightsabers. You know what, guys? Your priorities are out of check here. Don't you think as South Africans, we feel at most home in that because we can be in Johannesburg, where it is Tokyo, and everything is like lightsabers and spaceships. And then we are in the Eastern Cape and we are in a hut.

The difference is it's not in the same place. It's not in the same world. So all the parts of Japan that thrive in my opinion because of their incessant need to be precise and to be perfectionists, I appreciate. I go, the sushi is flawless. The food here, forget sushi guys, Japan makes your food better than you make it.

You think you've had pasta, come to Japan. You think you've had chicken, come to Japan. You think you've had chicken? Come to Japan. You think you've had a grape guys? The best grapes I have tasted in the world. The grapes! The grapes! The mangoes. As they say in Japan, ushi! But this is all because of the same thing. A farmer in Osaka told me on the last night, he said to me, this is so amazing. I said, why are your fruits so delicious? And he was, when we were buying them and he said, because in Japan, we find the tree that is growing the best and we cut down the rest and we make sure that that tree is the only one that survives.

Gets all the water and nutrients because it is doing the best. No way. Wow. And I was like, damn, that because it is doing the best. Wow. And I was like, damn, that explains why you have the best fruit. But at the same time, it made me so sad because I went, damn, that explains why your society is the way it is. Because you can only be the best. Because you cut down the rest, you get salarymen, you get people who are in obscurity,

and then you get a few people in Japan who just are killing it. And they are like, you know what I mean, drinking the tea first, walking into the room first, you know what I mean? And that made me realize there is a gift and a curse to everything that you choose in your life. You will have the best of something, but it's going to come at a cost. And so like that thing for me made me really sad and happy and it was a it's a it's a it's a conflicted feeling that I have. But it's what you and I said to each other in the bar the other night what has been the price of your success and feel free to name people as the cholera to you being successful. I love that one. I love you've got to say that one again. Anyone listening to this ask yourself this question. What has been the cost of your success? And feel free to name people as that cost and that price,

because sometimes your success costs you people around you. Yeah. You know? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Can I tell you I think is happening? Yeah, it's a wild theory, but also I wish the whole world could adopt Japanese culture with the freaking toilets. They have the best toilets in the freaking world Okay, this is a good moment for a segment We like to call where in the world brought to you by T-Mobile, who can help you experience travel better. They have a whole host of travel perks that you'll love whether you're on a day trip or your dream trip. And this trip has been a dream because, like we've

been talking about, there are so many things about Japan that are so different from any other place in the world, including their toilets. Take a listen, and you'll never think of going to the bathroom the same way again. When we talk about the Japanese toilets, there are levels of Japanese toilets. Some Japanese toilets have a little nozzle that pops out under your goods and it sprays up,

cleans you up, cleans you up. Sometimes they even dry you. Little blow dry, do a whole thing. Yes, but now the ones in Japan are like the best ones like this is like Toto at the top. These ones when you walk into the room the toilet greets you essentially because it like it opens up for you and then it heats the seats and you sit down and then it sprays like a little air freshener so that you know what I mean? And then so just so you understand.

It's like no one else was ever here. No one was here. Also, that's so clean. Yes. And everywhere you go. Yeah. And then when you get up as well, it then flashes. Yes.

It flashes without you doing anything. Somebody in Japan was sick and tired of walking into logs, right? But now there was one morning I woke up a bit queasy and nauseous. So obviously I now have to go and kiss the porcelain bowl. Do you know how difficult it is to just have a decent puke because every time you're puking, it's flashing in your face. I have never thought of that. I have never thought of that. That is amazing.

Thought of that. So now you don't know, you have to time your... Because if you put pressure on the seat, once you lift the pressure off it flushes in your face. I was just like, can I have it? I wanted to switch it off somewhere. Like, where is the main switch? But you see, that's the thing, you can't. That was Where in the World, brought to you by T-Mobile, who can help you experience travel better,

with perks like free in-flight Wi-Fi so you can watch your favorite movies from 30,000 feet. Plus, you can return your dollar rental car without the hassle of refueling. And T-Mobile's got you covered with 5GB of high-speed data in 215-plus countries and destinations with Go 5G Plus or Next plans. Learn more at t-mobile.com slash travel. Qualifying plan required, Wi-Fi where available on select US airlines, terms and conditions apply. We'll be right back after this short break. even the 27th best feeling saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do.

Enjoy the number one feeling. Winning in an exciting live dealer studio, exclusively on FanDuel Casino, where winning is undefeated. 19 plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem? Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit kinexontario.ca. Please play responsibly.

Want visibly glowing skin in 14 days? With new Olay Indulgent Moisture Body Wash, you can lather and glow. The 24-hour moisturizing body wash is infused with Vitamin B3 Complex and has notes of rose and cherry creme for a rich, indulgent experience. Treat your senses with new Olay Indulgent Moisture Body Wash. Buy it today at major retailers. While we were in Japan, I spoke to the Japanese people that I could, because like Japanese people speak Japanese, which I know sounds like Captain Obvious has

dipped into the podcast, but Japanese people speak Japanese, which I know sounds like Captain Obvious has stepped into the podcast, but Japanese people speak Japanese. And what I mean by that is like, you come here speaking English, you are not getting anywhere, which is good for them, by the way. I'm not saying like English should be the thing, but like, yo, when I spoke to the few Japanese people who were bilingual, they would say to me, almost like they were hoping nobody was watching them, they would look at me and they would be like, they'd be like, yeah, I just, I wish Japan was a little,

I wish it was a little more flexible. And I wish Japan wasn't as tight as it is. And it's weird because everything that has made Japan what it is, think about it. The technology, right? Your Walkmans, yeah, well now we don't think of it, but that was like the beginning of what we considered portable music today.

You know, your PlayStation, your TV, your cars, your air conditioning unit. Japan sort of laid the blueprint for everything we use. And a lot of their, a lot of them being stuck, a lot of them, you know, that indignation they have for anything that isn't them is why they got to where they got to. But now it feels like it's starting to be the thing that unravels their society.

So now I keep coming back to this idea, like, what's a thing about yourself that you think is a good thing that you think people think is a bad thing about you? What a tough question. I think it's a great thing, but I'm coming to learn that not entirely is that I expect like a hundred percent work ethic from everyone around me all the time. And I can never understand why I don't mind if you fail. I just mind that you didn't even try or that you didn't apply yourself. And I see that at work, especially with my TV production and radio. And because my immediate team kind of gets it and I may have assembled them like that actually, you know,

but the more it trickles down, whereas you go into another department that kind of feeds my department, right? And as soon as balls are dropped on that side, I struggle to let you get away with that. And then I'm like, why aren't heads rolling? No, no, no, no. Yeah. And I don't know how I was raised in that work ethic where I kind of expected from everyone else. And with other people, it's just like, chap, it's impossible for me to be here at 10 at

night for rehearsal. So that's something you think is good. I think it's impossible for me to be here at 10 at night for rehearsal. So that's something you think is good. I think it's fantastic. Yes, I think it's fantastic also for the greater product and the bottom line and we all employed and we all, we're running after this bottom line. And I live in a, guys, if we all want bonuses, we all have to bonus work type of vibe, you know?

And I've learned it's not like that, you know, has anyone ever said anything to you about it? Oh, only recently. What did someone say? Someone, but I wasn't in the meeting. My team came to tell me they're like, hey, when somebody threatened to take you to HR. Wow. Wow. Overworking them.

Yes. And I was like, let's go to HR. Heads must roll. I was like, I'll see this. HR's heads will roll. Yes. You know? I was like, I'll see this. In fact, each time the heads will roll. Yes, you know. And honestly, I definitely, definitely understand and believe that the older I get, I have to change.

You know, something about you has to change. But how do you know what the thing is? So in this instance, if you wrote this down on paper for me, and you said, I believe that people should give 100%, I would say that that's good. Now the people around you are like no it's a little too intense. So how do you know that that's because most things if you think about life and what's been invented great things that have been created advancements in science or technology or even the world it's oftentimes been a person who was relentless and didn't want anything less than do you know what I mean? Half the people who got on ships and circumnavigated the globe and like, you know, drew maps.

I don't think those people were part-time. But also what you need to realize is that not everyone can be like that. Because can you imagine if everyone was Christian? Oh, there you go. There you go. We'd have a lot of ships in the ocean and no one back home. And it would not make sense. And it would not make sense.

It would not make sense. But we would not make sense. You know? But we would have all discovered America. How many? We're coming to America. What about you then? Do you wish you could relax on and not be so rigid on? Well, ironically, the thing that I'm too relaxed about is being relaxed. So mine is the other way around.

You scold yourself for taking a break. No, no, I'm the opposite. Like I am too relaxed. I'm always like, sometimes I'm a little too zen about everything. Time, things happening or not happening. I'm like, yo man. And I do think it's something that became a coping mechanism because of ADHD. Like, you know, I'm pretty certain my mom had it, I had it.

So if you grew up in a house and a family where things can't happen when they're supposed to happen, one of two things will happen to you. You're gonna live in a constant state of anxiety or you're gonna chill out. And I was like, yeah, chill out. Yes, I'm at school late because my mom dropped me off late, but I get to school every day. And at some point, I'm used to it. Yeah. Yeah, you know what?

You get stressed going to the airport, but yeah, you're going to fly. It's like all these things. So my thing is I'm a little too relaxed, which I think is a great quality because I'll never stress anybody out. But then I'm so relaxed that I stress everybody out. I was about to say, you would cause me absolute anxiety. So I'm so, I am so, so'm so relaxed that I stress everybody out. As I was saying, you would cause me absolute anxiety. So I'm so, I am so, so, so relaxed that I stress everybody out. But also it's because you say, so you always say no, but we'll solve it.

And that's the thing. And for you, you always say like, maybe I'm like, I'm stressed. You see me stress, okay. You know what I mean? Because the whole thing is I enjoy this because you see a puzzle. Yeah, there's a puzzle. A puzzle to be solved. Oh no.

Right? We are not at the stage. We are not. Yeah, you don't because you see a puzzle. There's a puzzle. A puzzle to be solved. Oh no, we are not at the start. We are not going to do that. I think if you can get it right the first time, please do so. No, no, no, but I am all about getting it right the first time. But I'm also like, when the first time, when is that time? And as I said, this is something I wish to change about myself, because I see the effect that it has on the world around me. Because y'all are all stressed about this.

Because then there's chaos around you. What is this? Is this the eye of the storm? I am the eye of the storm. This is also a Yoda thing. No, it's just a saying. What do you mean? This is geography. Sorry, excuse me. Did you not do geography in school? I did at Cue Milo Nimbus. This is geography. Sorry, excuse me. Did you not do geography in school?

I did, a cumulonimbus. I know that. Tornado, tornado guys. You know, okay, Kai, what about you? Yeah, you know, it's so crazy. I think for me, it's a terrible thing where, and I always say, you know, your great gift is also quite a great curse if you're not very aware of it. Yes. So, if you...

I think I said that to you. Yeah. So, if you are, let's say, a great communicator, you're able to communicate very well and express yourself pretty well. You fall into the trap of not only trying to find the truth, but trying to win, right? So, trying to win an argument rather than what is the truth. I don't know if I'm making any sense, so I think for me... Unpack. So, what I mean for me is, I will sometimes speak to myself certain things

and convince myself of a thing that I know is not true. Right. So you're a liar. To myself, yes. And I think a lot of the time where you know that something can be detrimental to me, but I will convince myself that it is true. But why are you doing this? Are you doing this to appease others or are you doing this? What do you think? Why are you doing that?

To safeguard yourself. I think it is often, that is true. It is often to kind of safeguard yourself against what you think are potential terrible pitfalls, right? But a lot of the times those pitfalls I imagined because it's a son that will happen. Huh. Right? So I will convince myself that I'm trying to think, you know what, you know, that girl, I don't think that girl will like me. But she has given me all the signs in the world.

But I will keep telling myself that, you know what, I think she just thinks I'm a nice guy. Okay, I call this projection. That's what I call it. As a defense mechanism, I think some people, they don't, they project themselves. Yeah, I think that is true. To stop anybody else from rejecting them. Yes. And then they go, oh, you probably would have, you probably would have canceled on me anyway.

Well, you didn't seem like, they probably wouldn't have been serious. And then it's like, you're doing that. So wait, so you think the good, because you're so good at formulating an argument, the downside is that you're good at formulating it against yourself. Against myself, yes. Wow. But then this seems like something you know you should change. Yes, but the thing is...

That's difficult to change though. That is the worst thing where you know that there's something you should change and you know it. Yes. But then you don't change it. That is... That's probably the hardest. Yeah, that is the worst thing I think for me, for a person to know about themselves.

Yes. Do you know thing I think for me for a person to know about themselves. Yes. Do you know what I think? And I wonder how much of this because you know how they were at the Japanese culture, they brought so much technology, I think say 80s, 90s during that time. And I wouldn't say that they stopped advancing, but I think because the population, there's got such an old group of people, right? At the top. And so, and because the society is about hierarchy.

So if you're older, the decisions are made by really older people. That's true. And therefore, even though they were the guys who were leading the revolution of technology in the eighties and the nineties, they're old now. And they say, yeah, but that's not how things are done. This is not, this is not why we did this. Isn't that what, especially you and Olisa, you guys always say the most dangerous thing anyone can ever say in a company is we've always done it like this.

Yes. We've always done it this way. And so with Japan, I just feel that we've always done it this way thing. And you don't want to go into a country and tell them, guys, just relax, you know, but I'm gonna have to ask you guys to take a chill pill. Wait, but don't you guys, don't you think that there's a, I found that there's actually quite a fundamental difference between Tokyo and Kyoto and Osaka in terms of the people themselves. I remember at a bar in Kyoto, Ogote, and there was a guy that...

I mean, I haven't had like a random Japanese person just come to me and strike a conversation. They don't do that. But at this bar, I don't know if you recall this guy. This guy with this silky hair. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I kept on touching his bar. And he kept touching his beard, right? You said, can I touch your hair? And I was like, wow.

And then he went like this. I was like, touch it. Nelson Mandela would be proud wherever he is. You as a black woman went to a Japanese man and you said, can I please touch your hair? Wherever our ancestors were, they rolled over in their graves and they started clapping. They were like, we made it, y'all.

We made it. Guys, his hair was glorious. It was glorious. But you know what's crazy about that guy? So I asked him when we chat, now he's chatting. You have this great conversation. Yeah. Wait, and I said, what an extroverted Japanese guy. Yes.

And I asked him where he's from. He's from Kobe. And he says that in Kobe, they are a lot more friendly, a lot more open than other Japanese cities here's how I understand it yeah from from what we heard from like you know the tour guides and some of the people I guess would really study Japan they said the one thing that's you know synonymous in Japanese culture regardless of where you are is that people are considerate of others when you're in the country sides of Japan,

you need to worry less about other people's space because you have more of it. You've got more space. You can laugh louder, you can move bigger, you can be more because you're in Osaka, there's space, you can have a good time. You're close, you get what I'm saying? Even though Osaka is a big city,

but it's like, and Osaka funny enough, it's called like the rebel area of Japan because they do the things the other way around Yeah, apparently all the comedians come from the yes 80% of Japan's comedians We felt at home when we were there. Yes But but but I think it's that Japanese people have gone when there are millions of us living together Catching a train walking upstairs riding escalators, shopping.

We all have to be more considerate of each other. It's like living in a complex or in a state in South Africa. Yeah, that's true. They're very serious. I call it, it's called a complex because it's complex living. There are 800 of us driving in and out of these four gates, right?

So that's why the rules are so, and I mean, if you're one person like, yeah, but guys, these rules don't make sense. Why can I only have four friends here? But imagine if all 800 of you decided to invite as many people as you want. There would be mayhem. So that kind of makes sense. So now you see what you just said there? That, for me, raised a larger question, which was so difficult. And it's just been ruminating in my brain as I've been thinking about Japan and that concept. If you look at the world we live in today, social media and travel has meant that we

have contact with other people in ways that we never did. We share the world in ways that we never did with other people, right? And so because of that, we're constantly butting up against people in ways that we never did. We share the world in ways that we never did with other people, right? And so because of that, we're constantly butting up against people in ways that we never did before. So back in the day, if you had an opinion about another culture, it was very rare that you would come up against that culture. If you had a disparaging view of people from Finland, all right, and then what? Let me tell you about these Finnish people. We'll be like, yeah, okay, keep going. Go for it. But now, you might bump into a Finnish person,

you might meet them on social media, they might encounter your views on social media, and now they go, excuse me, how can you say that about me? And this is the thing that I've been trying to understand, is like I go, because you know, these days, there's been a lot of conversations about like, oh, people are easily offended, and then other people are like,

well, people have become more mean. I personally don't believe it. I genuinely just believe we live together more than we ever have. Complex living. Complex living. We are all in a complex. And so because of that, it's not that you've played your music louder, it's that you share walls with your neighbor now.

And if we think about society and social media and the way we live, our walls are so close to each other that we now hear everybody's music that's playing all the time. And so because of that, you feel like it's coming to you. And then obviously, whereas they were just walking past, yeah, there you go. You feel like they were walking directly to you to offend you so that you can, you know, feel some type of way about it. And so that's when I then asked the question I go is it then possible and I don't want to say this in like a doom and gloom kind of way but like is it

possible for the world to exist in a cohesive way if we're all connected because in Japan they're able to do it because they're all Japanese. But I feel that the reason you know the extremes of of happiness and absolute somberness within Japanese people, and this is a huge assumption, but I think it's exactly that, that their own rules are, you know, coming out to get them. I'll give an example about what I picked up here. There is no romance in Japan. Like, did you see anyone hold hands, hug, kiss?

No, it's not a big thing. Yeah, I mean, like, well... It's actually, they said it's frowned upon to be like overtly PDA. That's not a thing. Yeah, I just think there's so many... One of the... Well, I suppose because I like romance, right? One of the things I saw that they're very... Yes.

...pinned on is exactly that. And I don't think any good can come of that. I really don't think any good can come of suppressing any part of what you desire. Well, maybe- Whoa, any part? I would disagree. Yeah, because you see it, right? Yeah.

Because you're the one who spoke about how they are, you notice extremes. Maybe they suppress it in public, and then in private, maybe it's something else. So, okay. I'm scared. So, wait, wait, wait. I had a fascinating conversation at 2 a.m.

in the streets of Tokyo, in Shibuya. Yeah. We met a group of, and it was like friends, and they were all half Japanese. So they were really open and they were sharing their experience. And my one friend, you know who it is, I won't mention names, he said,

he said, what about your sex? Do you guys even have sex? And then they were like, they all got very shy and they were like, but then they're like, actually, we're not open with our sex, but they're like, but when we get behind closed doors, people go wild. And then one of the women said one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

She said, I actually find I have more intimate experiences with Japanese men because they have a more honest expression beautiful things I've ever heard. She said, I actually find I have more intimate experiences with Japanese men because they have a more honest expression of what they like sexually than Western men. Whereas Western men, it feels like they're doing a performance, it's performative, because it's blended into the real world. So she said, because a Japanese man is never speaking

about what he does, is never showing off what he does sexually, when he comes to the bedroom one on one with a woman. And he's also like, this is what I like. This is what I like. Make these sounds, it turns me on. Yeah, but it's also an o'clock because he has to go back to work. This is true.

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or running errands at the perfect pace. Liquid IV powder helps you turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration so you can live a more extraordinary life. Live more with Liquid IV Hydration Multiplier available in refreshing lemon, lime, passion fruit and strawberry flavors. Buy a stick in store at Costco, Walmart, Amazon and other Canadian retailers. You know, this is where I'm conflicted in life generally, is I go... There are moments where I like to believe that I know what's right and what works and what... But then I realize, if we're honest about it as people, we don't know anything. We only know what we know, right?

And we believe what we know is correct because it's what we've been taught. A simple stupid example is how people hold their phones. If you're from a certain generation, you hold your phone in a certain way. And then when you're from a certain generation, they hold their phone. Hold it like it's deceiving you. You know what I mean? They hold their phones in a way. People talk. I've seen people have conversations like they do, then I'm like, what are you doing? And they're like, yeah, but this makes sense to me, because I speak when I speak and I listen when I listen.

And I speak when I speak. So I always have to tell myself, I go as society as people, we should never forget that the thing that we think is right, is only right because we are used to it, not because it is definitively right. It's different. It's different. It's just what we've been taught and it's what has been accepted by society. That's the only reason it is right or it is more correct. I'm not saying it's good and I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just like...

Because I'm drawing parallels to the older generation back home. In South Africa. Yes, in South Africa. Because you and I had this conversation about the parallels between Japanese people and Costa people. Whiskey, red meat. You know, and then... But silently, though. So to your point, when the Japanese said we love red meat, you said I'm completely in agreement. Then when they said I love whiskey, you said wow, these completely in agreement. Then when they said, I love whiskey, you said, wow, these people are fantastic.

I'm with you completely. They were like, then they said, but we keep quiet while we're doing it. Then you're like, whoa, you guys need to change your culture. But I imagine if a Japanese person was saying, you Nkosa people are almost perfect. If only you would just keep it down. Okay. I suppose what I'm trying to say back to the six thing

is that I think six starts long before we get to the room Yeah, but maybe it does. Maybe it starts differently exactly. It's not the same as you would expect it to start That's how you've been taught, you know, like the idea of sex. What is romance? What is flirting? What is connecting? What is all of this, you know? So now, but you see what you just said now is like because you say four plays then with the menu I like this. I like the... Yeah, that's possible. Yeah, but it is.

And this is what I mean. Like, okay, if we live in a world where everyone believes that their way is the right way, because it is the right way, and we know this because countries and societies have moved to a certain point. They've been like that for hundreds of years. So clearly it's not wrong. Yeah. Right? And it works for them.

There's no right language, there's no right food, there's no right music, there's no right dancing, there's no right romance, there's no… No! There's countries that existed for hundreds of years doing it their way. And now, all of us are doing this, and now it becomes a battle of which one is the right way. Are you loud or are you too soft? Are you too prudish or are you too sexual? You know what I mean? Are you too overt or are you too subtle?

Which one is it? And Japan has showed me that it really just is the way you're seeing it. And you only appreciate it when it works for you. You know what, sorry, just to go back now, because you asked us a question, what about you do you know that you should change? But you know, Japan, the second time around, because you must remember the first time I came to Japan, it was all honeymoon.

And I had nothing wrong to say about Japan. If we'd done this podcast in 2019, it would have been a silent podcast. Cause I'd be like, Trevor, you talking about yourself, huh? You're not wrong actually. I love media people. I love people. But now, because I'm here for a second time, you know, the veil's been taken off and now I'm going through it.

I'm like, maybe that, maybe that, we better with this, with this. But that, there's something very wrong about me, but I've gotten better at it since I turned 40 is all. Is that I'm very, if you, if we don't stay in honeymoon, then it's going to end very quickly, right? Like so yes. What do you mean we? Who's we? Like me in a friendship, me in a relationship, yes. Oh, interesting.

So even at work, I am constantly always finding ways to stay in honeymoon phase, right? And as soon as that is done, then we're done. Wow. Yeah. And what I must give it up to the Japanese people and what I've learned about myself in Japan the second time around is that like, you know what? There's actually such a deeper jam, a gel, a honey, a stickiness to be found past honeymoon stage.

You know, if you just like stick at it and stick in there. And that has become me now in the last three years, coming up to 40, is that I'm doing my best to just constantly realize that that's fine. That that phase of that person is gone. You know, find comfort and find solace and find joy and find happiness in this phase. It's very interesting what you say because I found that the women, I don't know, I'll make another example, but women that I have asked out, if I said, will you be my girlfriend?

Okay. What I've done is I've waited just after just after the honeymoon period. Because then, I know it sounds crazy, because I think that if I still like you after the honeymoon period, I really like you. Okay. Because I'm not just depending on the little, you know, homos. The newness. Yeah, the newness of the thing, because now I'm like a great,

there are certain things that are annoying about me and there are certain things that I find, but despite those things, I'm still here for you. And I think I... But I also love what you're saying, where you're constantly finding the Hanuman period. I don't think there's something wrong with that at all, but I don't know what you could call it, but I love that idea. I have a hot take on that. I think because of technology, birth control, etc., we found a way to hack the thing that really forced us into having kids and making families. And that was the honeymoon. We call it the honeymoon period now. I believe personally, the way we were designed as human beings is that you're supposed to meet

someone, your pheromones click off, your bodies basically go, this one can fix my things, this one can fix my things. You come together, you make children, and then it's like it's finished, and then you sort of move on. That's what I honestly think it was supposed to be. But then you were supposed to keep on doing it,

keep on trying to get it genetically diverse as much as possible, as much as possible, as much as possible. And then once we found ways to not get pregnant from having sex, we now use up our honeymoon juice. You're actually right. We use up our honeymoon juice having sex. And then at the end of it, there's nothing that ties you together. There's nothing to bind us to each other any longer.

Yeah, and then you're like, all right, on to the next one. Cheers. Bye. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? This is like, there's something in that for me is like. Oh my word. Oh, I just imagine having a child if one of us is. Oh my God.

How many, how many kids would regret? I would need a little country. You wouldn't be allowed with your family in Japan. They'd be like, no more than two. No more than two. We don't take 60 people. Oh, man. Oh, but you know, look, I'll say this, guys.

First of all, thank you. One of the things I love most about hanging out with you guys and taking trips and doing these things is that I find myself having fewer and fewer answers and more questions. Yes. Which can I tell you is probably my favorite thing in life. Because I find myself leaving a trip going like, like if now if someone said, what do you think about Japan? I'd be like, I don't know. Yeah.

I'll be like, it's amazing. It's one of the most beautiful places you'll ever go. It's one of the cleanest cities you'll ever be in. Because you have to carry your own trash, which can I tell you, had an immense impact on me as a human being. When you are responsible for every piece of trash that you put out into the world. There's no trash cans. If anyone's coming to Japan, I'm warning you now.

No one warned us. There's no trash cans. When you walk in the streets, you eat something, you hold your trash. You buy a cup of coffee, you hold your trash. And you're just walking around with your trash. You'll be shocked at how much your ability to discard influences your ability to consume. And I think that applies even on a metaphorical level. Your baggage.

With dating. Imagine if we all walked around and you could see the baggage that I carry. Yeah. Imagine if everyone you dated or hooked up with, you had to walk around with. Oh my God. Until you could like properly put them down.

I think we would date very differently. And in a weird way. And properly put them down. Yeah. And in a way I think that's something Japan did like on this trip. It hit me with like a, hey man, be conscious of the trash that you're creating and don't assume that you can throw it away for somebody else to deal with it. Don't assume that. Oh my lord.

Yeah, that is deep, man. Don't assume that. The best line was literally that there was a Japanese guy and he was really great. I said to him, I said, where's the trash can? And he was like, treasure can to him I said where's the trash can and he was like treasure can I said yeah trash can he's like Trash can he said who what is treasure can of all I said for the trash and he said oh Trevor son who must empty treasure can I said well a trash man. He's a girl Are you Trashman? Am I Trashman I?

Are you Trashaman? Am I Trashaman? I was like no. Then he's like who in our society is a trash person? Guys I have never felt a packet of chips heavier in my hand but he hit me hard with that. Yeah. And I was like damn. I didn't want these chips. No for real I was like yeah actually if we live in a world where we constantly assume that somebody else's position in life means that they should be picking up our trash metaphorically and literally then we live in a world where we one day may be burdened with somebody else's trash asking ourselves how it came to be. But that's the biggest thing that I that Japan left me with as a positive, as oppressive as it is in one part. I was like, damn, be conscious of the trash you put out there.

Is that your what now? My what now? My what now is we plan our next trip, friends. Hey, I was still debating. Columbia. Columbia. Columbia. We're coming for you, buddy.

Oh my God. This was fun, guys. Anelie, let's get you to the airport. Kaya, Kaya, thanks for joining us. No, thank you. This was too much fun. We'll do it again. We're doing it again.

We're definitely doing it again. And thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Anelie. Another episode of What Now? A special episode, by the way. It's not another one.

Trevor and friends, this time all the way from Japan. Arigato gozaimasu. Arigato. Arigato. This time all the way from Japan. Thank you very much. Thank you. Winston, Sanaz Yamin and Jodie Avigan. Our senior producer is Jess Hackl, Claire Slaughter is our producer. Music, Mixing and Mastering by Hannes Brown. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now? See you next time.