What Now? with Trevor Noah - Tina Friml: Living in the Bonus Round

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

This week, Trevor and Eugene are joined by comedian Tina Friml for a hilarious and surprisingly moving conversation. Tina talks about growing up with cerebral palsy, how Vermont's theater scene led her to stand-up, and the moment she realized the world saw her disability differently than she did. Along the way, the three swap stories about dating, social media, life on the road, and why the best comedy often comes from life's most uncomfortable moments. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

At what age do you remember, like at what part of your life and what age do you remember going, oh, I am different because I'm being told I'm different so much? Well, I remember that the first time I ever kind of heard about this. Yeah. I was a little kid five years old. I'm in the car at night with my family, my brother, my older brother, suddenly just chimed. like, hey, mom and dad, so why is it?

Why does Tina talk weird? How old was this guy? He had a special dog? Was there central locking? He was like seven, okay? Oh, man. In that kind of, in that kind of like, like socially random where the only Kings could be?

That's what it kills me. No, you know what I love? Because you're in a car. You're a family. so it's not even like an outsider thing but the fact that he says it not to you by the way goes like you're not there

yo mom and dad like he's been holding this in for so long for seven years yo mom and dad yo yeah okay I gotta ask now bro uh and you know this guy

it's not like he just met you that's what I'm saying he's known you for seven years that's what I'm saying and that wasn't even talking this is what now with Trevor Noah where'd you come from

today or like in my life? I mean, you can answer either one. Let's start with your life first. I actually live in Boston now. Like you live there. Yeah, yeah, for real. I moved there. I mean, I'm saying it right?

Hey, Hawaii. Hey, Hawaii. Boston, Boston. Boston. Boston. It sounds Boston. It's Boston. Boston.

Boston. Okay, okay, great. Okay, okay. Okay, okay. I'm from Cambridge. Oh, that's fancy. Wait, so why did you move there? Where did you come from originally that you moved there?

Yeah. I lived up in New England and then lived here for six years in Bushwick. And then I just hit a while. Well, I'm on Twitter so much anyway. But depending on the conversation, like, if I can't really get into it, I just said, oh, I might worry. I didn't want to pay New York rent. But, like, the real reason, I lived in Bush.

Do we know Bushwick? Yeah, we know Bushwick. But I hit a wall. I couldn't, like, I loved, you love Bushwick until you hate it. Yeah. But it's so young, bohemian. Ah. And, like, I moved there at 25.

Oh, yeah. So that's the right time. Yes. Young bohemian polyamorous. Young bohemian polyamorous is a great t-shirt. Polyamorous is better and promiscuous. Any day. Made the right choice.

It's ethical. Ethically monogamous. It's ethically non-monogamous. And ethically monogamous. I just thought that as a thing. I'm ethically monogamous. Thank you very much. I feel that's how being out there feels like.

It's like, I had to disclose that I was monogamous. Yeah, so that people know you're off the bed. Yeah, because you know when you're in like what I like to call like vibe places. Yes. The default flips, right? So you'll be in a place where what you normally think of as default is now no longer the default. So when you're in that place, you have to now say certain things. Yeah, yeah, when you know those places, it's vibe, cool fashion, everything, you have to be like, oh, by the way, I'm straight.

They're like, oh, oh, wow, okay. You look at you. When did you get here? What are you doing here? Because people automatically assume. Yeah, because the vibe of the place. No, the vibe of the place is like it's dictated by something else. The fashion, the views that people have.

Yeah. I actually think it's cool for people to go to places like that so that they can see what it's like to not be default. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm anonymous now and straight because I did the whole, the whole set. Like, it's not for lack of trust.

I tried. You tried it? I didn't know. It's all where I came out to my Bushwick friends at a cabbar bar as monogamous. They were like, good for you. That's amazing, too, you know? Like, wow. It sounds like a joke.

It's 100% one. That's why it's funny to me. So how long in Bushwick now? Before you left? Six years. Yeah. your time. I think.

Well, I got to the age of 32. Yeah, yeah. And that was just like, okay, but like no shade to Boston, but like, why Boston? Okay. Well, I don't know if anyone who moves to Boston, like, after New York, especially if they're in, like, comedy and stuff. I get that all the time.

I get, why Boston? Okay, great. So I'm not crazy. Yeah. No, but again, Cambridge. So I live in Cambridge, which is like Harvard, MIT area. Oh. Okay.

So I'm from Vermont, but I'm from Millbury, Vermont, which is college, like a very high-end college liberal town. Yeah. So it's the mixture of like, I mean, very familiar to me, to be among college. You just want to be around college kids. My intellects and organized people. Oh, I was going in a different direction. I thought Tina just wants to be around college kids. I was like, I was like, what are you exposing you?

Are you coming out of something else, Tina? No, no, no. Coming out of an intellectual. The kids. There's kids around me. Kids with hope and dreams. It's not like kids. It's the professors.

Oh, it's the professor. I mean, it's like, I love being a lot around intellectual people because they are the freakyest ones. Damn. They, yeah. Okay. Why are you saying it like that? Yeah. Have you been freaky or have you been intellectual?

Who, what are you, what are you, what are you, what are you, um,ing about? I come out to you as normal. I'm from Bushwick. This is a safe table. Okay. No, when I saw, when I saw that picture of Stephen Hawkins at Epstein Island. Then you were like,

then I knew. I mean that, that is a harsh but accurate example. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, it, again, it sounds like a joke, but 100% true. that intellectual academic nerds, you know, they're the ones who they get down. I mean, you know, so much my comment is about kink. It's about alternative underground lifestyles. And people are like, oh, why would you move away from New York?

You're like, you moved into it. I really did. The truth of the matter is that, like, Like, yeah, of course it's out here in New York. But in Cambridge, you know, I sort of think there's more creativity and more, more energy towards kink spaces, alternative, goth, you know, all the above. Do you think it's because the environment is all about people exploring in general? Like what do you think it is? You know what?

Do you get what I'm saying? Like if you're in a learning slash experimenting environment, why would that not extend beyond your science and your math and your history and your writing into your sex life? You know, I've been thinking about this. I don't 100% know, but I have theories. Well, I... You've come to the right place. Can I tell you I'm a professor?

In bullshit! I'm expecting to breach this topic maybe like 45 minutes. Oh no, no, no, no. We start hot, we go straight in. So, so here's my theory. And, you know, I think it's too easy to say, oh, to be in a, um, a more,

kind of conservative area that breeds, that breeds this kind of rebellion, kink, I don't think it's that simple. I really, I think that, in my experience, at least, the more logical that people get into where the world works and the way the humans work, the more, the more permission they have, I think, to kind of explore who they are. Experiment, yeah. I think that combined with a little bit of boredom, to be honest. Because being out in Boston now, it's sort of like, I am, I mean, Boston.

has a lot, but it's no New York. Yeah, definitely. And to lower this kind of standard of day-to-day stimulation, I mean, it really did for me. Your brain always kind of builds up something to fill the gaps. And I think that for me... No pun intended. Because I know where your jeanne's mind goes.

was full the gaps while we're talking about kink sorry Tina I just had to block him so his eyes change why are you Professor Xavier in me

I didn't do anything I was paying attention I was loving Tina still leave me out of your I mean it's because a bus my friend

I will throw you under it I think I'm like I'm sorry I don't know I think it's that combination. You know, it is boredom and there's human nature of our brain to fill in the gaps with just their own stimulus.

And then, of course, there's the elephant in the room that, you know, often academic people, they're in role-playing. indeed. Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah. You know, there's a large percentage who are artistic, and that is a huge populace among the king scenes.

Really? Oh, yeah. Autism? Oh, 100%. Wait, really? Yeah. Tina, where have you been on my life? What's your address?

We have to hang out. Wait, what? Tell us more about the autism. How are you? How are you? Hi, how are you? I'm from bastard. Basta.

No, bastard. Baster. But, I mean, I, um, well, well, I think, I think that artism, people who have autism, they do find a lot of comfort in community in the, in any kind of, in any kind of, kind of alternative scenes. Because it's automatically welcoming to the idea of the other. Like it's more accommodating.

It's more accommodating than a default. Exactly. And there's just masking, what the word they call masking, which we all do. Which is the concept of a pretty normal amongst sight in order to be accepted. And

you know, And having that guard let down, you know, it really, there's a, with Kink and with a lot of alternative spaces, especially with the internet, there's a cringe factor that people would not have to be aware of. And with King Dean D, D, any kind of nerd fandom, you know, that's where dark romance comes from. You know, this. What, dark romance? Yeah, kind of like, um. Sounds like a Lady Gaga album.

Well, no. I mean, it could be easy. I thought it was just like Eugene's affairs in general. Like, Dr. Quimates, like, um... How many pastas are there, do they? Every second, do do do, go do, do. I feel like I'm wearing so much about you. I feel the same.

I'm like, whatever. Oh, man. You seem like my target demigra. I am. For this conversation. But like Duck Romance are kind of like, um, fan fiction. Yeah. Twilight, for example.

Although there's such terrible example. But that kind of, um, have you ever been to like an anime convention? No, I've never been. Okay. I've been to Comic Con. You've been to Comic Con. Yeah. When were you going to tell me this?

And people were dressed up in costume and... You've been to Comic-Con. Naruto and like... No, man, you're lying. No, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait. Furn. What were you doing there? In Johannesburg, they have one.

But you went. Yeah. Why would you go? You don't even watch anime. Do you? Is this another... Are you ready to come out about being in anime? I watch it?

He doesn't watch anime. I know this for sure. I went to go watch anime. the people who watch anime. It is good people watching. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I'm good at people watching. I love it. It's my favorite thing to do. Okay, so, okay, so sorry you were saying, so anime.

Well, so what they call fandom, which is tight community based around an IPU, some show book series. And, you know, what this cluster people come and they um you know whether it's cosplaying or coming together and they um it really i'm not going to say the whole thing is aryric but aryism is a large part of it you know um i think a lot of it is like so i love anime yeah and well you look you know you know that you know

this about me. You've, you've seen my, he's seen my TV. He doesn't, this guy's going to act like he doesn't know me. I had something in my eye. What's wrong with you? I was like, no, so I love anime and there's, it doesn't matter whether it's the male characters or the female characters. All of it, I think, has an air of eroticism around it. Like, all of it has a, there's just like a, you know,

there's an undercurrent that's constantly flowing in anime. All the time. All the time. Yeah. I mean, I, human nature, I think that that's what I mean, makes it so compelling. And in my opinion, as to the escapism of, you know, being in this fictional world

and being able to explore fictional worlds in a variety of different ways. Right. Did you grow up as an anime fan? Were you... I grew up adjacent to anime. What does that mean? Just cartoons.

What is anime- It means that like I did not watch anime myself, however my best friend would all. I know the six times. You have victim. I myself. I know, I know. Let me say something. No, no, no.

I hate all you people who use us anime watches to like watch and then claim you don't watch it. But then you'll be like, can you rewind? Wait, wait, just rewind there. I want to see what Ganimaru said there. Just rewind. Oh, so you know his name. No, no, no, no. It's not even like that.

It's not even like that. Yeah. Like what? I just, one piece. What you're talking about? I mean, cute characters. No, but yeah, I was that kid who would go away to the basement,

the furnished basement, of a friend's house. And I don't know. Like, I wouldn't get into this actual show, but I would get into the, Oh God, the passion for And she would go on these message boards And just

Roleplay with all these people I think you bring up a good point I think Watching people who are fans of something Is equally as enjoyable for us You love that Because they passion No Eugene loves that

Yeah, yeah He's a passion vampire Yeah, when someone has a passion I'm like, tell me more Eugene is like a Eugene is obsessed I watch their joys

their eyes their lows I remember that one of the greatest memories I had from an ex

who was a huge Star Wars nerd May the fourth be with him indeed in the world we're getting there

some stories May 4 May 4 can this come out on May 4th that would be incredible Yes.

But like probably one of the greatest memories I had was one day he got a package he said it's here like he's a lawyer

he turned into like a child and he riffs open and it's a light saber but not even a full lightsaber like it turned off lightsaber

like it didn't Oh, yeah, it doesn't do the actual... It didn't do the... No, no, no, no. It's just the... Have you seen those? They're very beautiful. Yeah.

So it's a light... It's the handle of a lightsaber. So it's a threat of a lifesaver. Yes. But it's like a lightsaber, but then the Jedi didn't charge it last night. I wonder if that happened sometimes. Like Luke Skywalker and all and then it'd be like,

hmm, time to fight, we shall. And he's like, oh, Master Yoda. Did not charge you did. And it's like, ah, yeah, I forgot to charge. I put it by the bedside, but then I didn't... I didn't plug the... thinking like duff page and then you are not my son i would always charge my lightsaber i'm like they just sweet you around because we don't know does this give you a two of what i'm into

oh yeah that's his you really are i'm hitting all your boxes right now oh my god look at that's fully oh wow wow yeah is that oh my god yeah that's his that's his partner said that now I imagine that I'm fighting with lights but I'm just like a point baller charges just like a power bank just running around with a power bank as well bam bam bam

boom boom boom boom boom oh wait hold on can I plug can I just all of the all of the Jedi sitting in like the airport next to the wall there with their lightsabers just waiting you know what I hate about Star Wars is when sometimes in these franchises they make the stormtroopers break character because stormtroopers

Yeah They gotta get to the other guy You gotta find a way Sometimes you find in the Mandalorian And whoever You'll find them chilling like Yeah that kind of sucks I hate you're not wrong

I hate that Yeah because they have like Now they're giving them like random You know what I don't like about it This is why we're friends I think the thing I don't like about it is The Stormtroopers

Were meant to be like When I first watched it It was like these mindless Yes drones drones that just like moved through but now when they're like people having conversations and personality now I'm like oh no then I'm like so you're bad guys now

before I just felt like they were the they were the forces army now I feel like they're like assholes doing a thing with a personality that's what I mean and sometimes the fact that the helmet can come off I'm like it wasn't supposed to be a helmet you look like one giant unit

that's how I feel about the minions the minions the minions minions Like, Yeah, but do the body. Oh, my dadda go. I'm a dadda. He-he.

Those things. Yeah. Well, they begin as like the background. Like, the comic relief. And now they have their own movie. And you don't like this? No. I'm...

I like the old Chaplin. Charlie Chaplin-esque. I like when they're the humorous character that can just come in and come out. And that's it. Just pop in. Don't have to constantly be there.

Just pop in. Upai, and you're going to be ominous. So you're not a big fan of spin-offs? No, no. Although you know what that reminds me of? I overheard you talking about your algorithm. Yeah.

I'm like, what it fees you. You know what I've been getting? I've been getting like Disneyland and Universal Parks. Like somehow it got wind that I could be very into that. And now it's absolutely all over my feet. Just like Disney World, Disneyland. Yeah. But like I don't know just like character actors.

And all the behind the scenes coming into the parks. Like, I... What, they feel like you're a fan of, like, coming into the park? Well, so here's... Is that like a genre? Like a specific... Because I've never seen a video of the behind the scenes. What do they know about you that we don't?

Well, I think they picked up that, like... I mean, I grew up literally in a theater. So my mom and dad were... they were set designers and builders and no ways yeah yeah and um wait where was this it was in Vermont and then worked for a professional

opera company um as well as local theater yeah and but again because it was in middlebury Vermont which is a um college like highly regarded college town. Yeah. It was local theater, but it was like...

On a grand scale. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I mean, legit. So they went all out. The costumes were amazing. The set design was amazing. Yeah.

And then you were a kid growing up in this environment? Like, were you, like, running around the theater, backstage? Yeah, I was a kid on the blanket in the corner with a pizza. Like, but I would, as I got older, I would help them out. help them because it was not only effects it was

um were sets and effects and whatever they need fog more property

all that there's always too much fog or too little fog there's never enough fog have you noticed this yeah but I hear the fog

goes up to your knees there's never yeah but there's never there's never enough fog and there's always too much fog ankle covering fog is enough fog knee covering fog

sleep you ho No. Yeah, but there's never, I've never seen correct fog. Sometimes there's like so much fog and haze. You can't see the audience. The audience can't see you. And then sometimes there's no fog. There's just like, it just seems like there's like a small man smoking on the side of your stage and puffing into the stage.

And you can see the audience look off to you sometimes like, who's smoking here? And you want to be like, no, it's a fog machine that's not, it's a smoke machine that's not doing its job. Okay, how much fog is enough fog? Trevor's got... Like, it's like... Like enough to give ambience. Yeah, that's it. It's all about the ambiance.

Yeah, it's got to refract the light. Wait, so should... But not... Not dull the light. Exactly. So should the fog come out when the person is there or before the person comes out? Should the person come out to the fog?

The performer, should they walk into foggy? Okay, with fog, usually like it's... It should be at least. Yeah, should be. the whole part. A lot of people I think if it were like, like amateur hour

I think like fog they're like people treat fog like like you know to create a feeling but but in

it's excessive. Yeah. Yeah. Fog should never be the the environment Fogs really just, you know, play a role. Yes. In the environment.

Yeah, you want to... Not become the environment. Yeah, you want to feel... You know what it is? It's like, when the fog is right, when the smoke machine's been used correctly, you don't even realize that it was there. So if someone asked you to re-describe the scene,

you wouldn't... I don't think that's the first thing you would bring up. But to your point, when it's like amateur hour, you'll go like, was really foggy. And then it's like, no, then it was too much. It's just got to give you that feeling of like, you know, something. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Just, well, I know that there was an opera that my mom and dad worked on where there were, I forget the opera. It might come to me or come to you guys. I know how much you know about the opera. I mean, us, I mean, we are old, old hands. I don't like to brag Many have called us the Phantoms of

Opera knowledge And when it doesn't go well We become Les Miserables I believe I'm not too much fog So So

Too much I'll say Okay Too much fuck Too much fuck You were You were Foggy

as hell. My dad worked on one with seeing the witches around the cauldron. And the cauldron was both bubble and smoke up. That carter was almost the death of him because

it had to roll out so it couldn't be attached to anything. But to your point it like I think it was like the first time he did it, it just, like, they put way too much, the station put way too much ice in it.

The dry ice, yeah. It just created this curtain of, of, uh, and again, they're singing opera. They're professional opera. So, um, they, they couldn't, it was just, they would breathe in and just, uh, Yeah, yeah. No, no. The witch's brew as an effect from the culture. So to round it back to...

I feel like that was the most realistic show someone watched. Yeah. Because I don't like it sometimes when the characters doing something don't react like humans. So if I was watching an opera where witches were gathered around the cauldron, they start making something. It bubbles up. It's not just something. No, but it's not... Is it always witch's...

brew. It is always Oh, I didn't know. I thought maybe They don't make Cabucha. I didn't know. I thought maybe like one

It's called witch's brew for a reason. I thought one day it doesn't make witches brew? Who? Wizards. So witches make witches brew. Okay. That's all they make.

They don't make fermented malt. You tell me everything that's in that pot is witch's brew. Everything in that pot. Yeah. Huh. Okay. And you can't.

You can't take it out without a cackle. Because you can't, you can't just put the wishes brew in a vessel. Ah, that's You know, I've never seen brew put in a actual chalice. I've seen it like, don't they stir it up and then like... In a chalice, it invokes malice. So it's when someone is getting poisoned.

Who is this guy? But when it's in a vial, it exposes the potency of the brew. Because you must get the reveal that greed. liquid. The green. Yes, because that's the only time you ever see what's inside the witch's brew is inside the little vile. In your head, you're thinking all of that cauldron for this little vial, it is worth it.

Yes. The calamity that will ensue after our main character consumes. It's what makes it worth it. So it really is. kombucha. I mean, that's what. This is amazing. This must have been amazing for you as a kid.

though being in that environment. Because as kids, you want to stay in a world that's as imaginary for as long as possible. And now you're in that world with your parents. What were you like as a kid? Were you? I, you're right. Because I was in that environment, I held on to that child like, I wanted to say wonder, but no, delusion. Oh, I like that.

I felt a delusion for a lot longer than I thought, you know. And maybe that's kind of what led to entertainment industry was, I mean, I, it was a double-edged sword because I grew up thinking much more was possible in this life for me. than reality. I didn't, you know, I got this kind of very obtuse version of the world. You know, they're waiting what way? Well, I think that mainly, I think I thought that a lot of elements of life were much more dramatic. poetically poetic than they were in good ways and bad ways. I learned much about the world from these shows that my mom and my dad would do.

I remember that one time they worked on the show of Chicago, and I went up to my mom asking what the word murder meant. And she went on and told me that I was where a person would kill another person. But then, because my head was so in line with main character essence, and I got immediately, I understood that, oh, we live in a world where people are just going out doing that. They kill other people for no reason. Right. And it was sort of, and here's where I got weird.

It was instead, normally I would maybe be freaked out by that or not wanting to leave the house, but I sort of, it didn't scare me as much. I thought would. And I kind of went around sort of embracing this ominous vibe of the world. And that's why where I would... The idea that people murdered people, you were like, it made the world more interesting?

Yeah, yeah, it did. Well, because it just, like, it played into this, oh, there are really... Bad actors, yeah. Oh, okay, okay. It turned it into like a play now. It made it more interesting. It made it...

And I think that, exactly. And if it was a play, that meant everything had a purpose. Everything had a reason and a story arc. So, you know, one of the hardest thing that I had to learn was that the world had nuance. We're still dealing with that today. It was and the bad guy

sometimes does come out in the end. Yeah. It did evoke this kind of fearlessness that I did have that. That everything would work out. And that's why I call it

a bit of a delusion was that it, I don't know, it, I kind of thought that once things just got so bad, someone were breaking the song and dance and everything would just, you know, and the back guy would go away and, um, and, again, again, Yeah, just everything would happen on paper exactly as it was meant to happen, you know. So then how does that journey take you into stand-up? Because you're in theater, or I'm assuming this, did you go from theater to theater? Did you... Well, so I, like, I gave up on theater.

I wanted to kind of naturally be an actor. Yeah. But I gave up on. that because I have cerebral palsy. And the, that was, I was never, I never felt different. I was just told I was different. Yeah. I found out.

What, at what age do you remember, like at what part of your life and what age do you remember going, oh, I am different because I'm being told. told them different so much. Well, I remember that the first time I ever kind of heard about this. Yeah. I was a little kid five years old. I'm in the car at night with my family, my brother, my older brother, suddenly just chimed in, like, Hey, Mom and Dad, so why does Tina talk weird?

How old was this guy? He had a seatbelt on? Was there central locking? You know, you were like seven, okay? Yo, man. And that kind of, in that kind of like socially random way,

only came to me? That's what kills me. No, you know what I love? Because you're in a car. You're a family. So it's not even like an outsider thing. Yeah. But the fact that he says it,

not to you, by the way, goes like you're not there. Yo, mom and dad. Like he's been holding this in for so long. Yeah, mom and dad. Yo, okay, I got to ask now, bro. And you know this guy, it's not like he just met you. That's what I'm saying.

He's known you for seven years. That's what I'm saying. And that wasn't even talking. It just came out. Oh, man. I know. And you saw that comment on, but then. Call my mom and dad.

dad off guard and they just in the moment I think they panicked and and sat on and then my dad he said we're not going to talk about this oh damn and that's it and and and um shame yeah yeah and so I I learned way off the bat and I thought I had learned that learned that Okay, well, A, something's wrong with me. And B, it's a bad thing. It's shameful, tragic. It's something that we cannot say. It cannot be accepted.

Damn. But it took me a while to learn about what was wrong with me. You know, because when you're a kid, I mean, having cerebral palsy, having brain damage, how do you describe that to a kid, you know? And in hindsight, I'm actually very thankful that my mom and dad just, I mean, their approach was just let me be a kid. Because going forward, I learned to separate my disability from me. And even though the world does not do that. The world just is...

Conflates the two. Yes. But back then, when I think about being disabled, I really do remember, But I was a normal kid, and then one day it just kind of landed on me. So I'm fascinated here. There's a few things I'm trying to understand. So the one is I have like the most, you know, rudimentary understanding of cerebral palsy. But help us understand when you're saying like brain damage and disability.

It's not an acute incident, right? It's... Yeah. Well, with cerebral palsy, um, It can be caused by a lot of things, but most likely it's oxygen deprivation. Yes. So for me, I had like a hard, hard birth world. So my mom had a C-section from my brother.

Again, it's my brother's fault. Had a C-section And then when I was in labor She was in labor with me With each other When we were in labor I I accidentally

Did you kill me I punched out I punched my way out The old C-Section Wait what Yes yeah instead of the

yeah but like it is a true C-section minimum I know it was one of two yeah I picked the one that was sealed up

yeah and well I punched out out of the womb but I did not I didn't I didn't alien my way out like I

I was in I was still in her I was just among other organs. Yeah. That's a real thing that can really happen.

Damn. I didn't know that that's a concept. Then you... And then what happens? And then well, and then because of that I got deported

of oxygen, the um, the imbilical cord. I don't know what happened if it wrapped around my neck. Yeah. My neck or I got strain, but I was

dead for of 20 minutes. No way. And thank God. So the doctor at the time was at home. My mom's main doctor was at his home. Oh, I thought you were saying the doctor was at home. I was like, what world are you growing up in when you're like, I was being born and the doctor was at home?

And then they were like, all right, maybe we should call him now. You mean her main doctor? Okay, okay. That makes more sense. The main, I guess, Caligalges, Yeah, obstetrician,

yeah. Was at home, he speeds. The cops are literally following him. And he speeds. And I think I'm minded medicine, but,

but like I was clinically dead for 20 minutes. What do you remember? You can't remember anything because your life can't flash before your eyes because you haven't been born yet. You'd be very sad.

What are you going to, what's the, I wish so hard that I had the answer for you. I don't remember shit. Maybe I do, but I'm not going to tell you for first. Okay? Don't we're friends? Doesn't past life regression just kind of...

If you want to get the full story, check out Tina's Patreon. She'll be telling you the full story on her Patreon. If you want to know what happens, life after death, For life, then you can check out Tina's Patreon. Patreon $5 and I will tell you what happened to your bodyless soul. That is insane. Yeah, yeah. Don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this.

Dr. Kams resuscitates you? Yes, yes. But after that, so, um, funny thing, when you're, when you're deprived of oxygen for that long, There's permanent damage in the brain. So it is quite miraculous that I had that all that happened to me for that long and I came out less affected than I am. Right. It's a miracle.

It really is. It is quite amazing that I'm here right now doing this. And yet, you wish, I wish so much. that I can have this conversation with every person that I meet on the street. But I can't. Wait, what do you mean? Because, like... They don't want to pay your Patreon.

I know. I'm putting a QR code in their face. But that's the thing. And I know this is the universal problem. But my... I'm kind of, I mean, not to build myself up here, but I'm walking around as a very, what would the word be, I guess a lot.

Yeah, I'm walking around. Defiant. Yeah, completely. Defiant, yes. But the people that I meet, they see my disability. and is a problem for them, you know. Their problem. It's still kind of the judgment that I receive.

Wait, judgment. I wouldn't have thought judgment. I would have thought pity, but I wouldn't have thought judgment. You know, it depends on how old you are. And the situation. Wow. Yes, yes. As a kid, it was really interesting.

As a kid, it was very much pity. Into my young adult life, it was a sort of judgment, not judging me from being disabled, but particularly here in New York. There is judgment, and again, depending on the situation, but often for,

being out in the world and requesting or are you taking a little bit longer than things. Oh, okay, that makes sense. Okay. People, you know, I think people often like to box, you know, put meat in a box. And that will, if, you know, if you are effective, then why not just go about your little life? somewhere among helpers and, you know, to co-exist, I think, and to actually go into spaces where I'm not always expected. I think people, they don't want to be judgmental, but they do kind of, their cough,

got by it. Yeah. And so I think they're a little bit frustrated with this coexistence of it. I think I'm guilty of that sometimes. Like I've realized there's a thing I have to, because I fly a lot, I've realized there's a thing I have to do sometimes when disembarking a plane or even when boarding it. and I had to do this the other day

I had to say old people are old they're not doing anything to you I literally had to say this to myself because I was frustrated there was an old couple in front of me just like leaving the plane and I was behind them

and I was like like in my head I was just like and I had a feeling almost like why are you doing this like if you're going to be old why not just wait in the plane while everyone else but then I was like

yo old people are just old they're not doing anything to you they're not but I do think I appreciate that you said New York I do think and this is just anecdotal that it is probably more pervasive in the biggest cities because one of the things a big city does is it robs you of everything personal yeah right so we cross the road there's a hundred people but you don't know anyone and nobody knows you and when you're in a store it's like, come on, come on, come on, come on, let's just do this thing. And then there's almost like a, there's almost like an idea that people sometimes have

where they go, if you're in this coffee shop, that means, yeah, but also that means you can get here. There's like this incongruency of, if you're able enough to get here, you should be able enough to speed this up or get out of my way or, do you know what I mean? There's this thing that happens in New York. And I noticed even with cars that get stuck in New York. The difference in, let's say, South Africa, I've seen now that I'm back home more often, is here you'll never see people pushing the car out of the way.

Never, never, never, never, never. It's just not a concept. A car stuck. Everyone will be there behind it. You asshole. Driving around it, trying to, but you will never see people get out their cars and be like, all right, let's get this car off the road.

We'll help you push. In South Africa, that's still a thing that you'll see. You'll still see people go like, we acknowledge that you do not wish to be stuck. We know it's irritating for us, but you don't want to be stuck, so we're going to help you. And the people behind you have not to do with it. Yeah, yeah. So they won't get affected as well. If we help.

So I can, I can, but I, but it's amazing to hear from the person who's going, you know what I mean? Why am I being made the asshole in the situation? Yeah. Well, this is collective for getting on a day-to-day basis that we're all. living lives on top of each other. And somehow, again, miraculously, making it all happen at once. We're constantly shifting puzzle pieces. And so when, yeah, when they're stuck out, when there's, God forbid, an old person.

Like, those are so fine. these days old people are just dying there is I mean they are inconveniences they and they are kind of I'm like well

I'm guilty to me too almost like you know a baby on a plane that that's my example a screaming baby a baby

no no no for Tina's just a baby she is beef with babies on plane not if they're They cried. Tina just sees a baby on a plane and she's like, look at you. You didn't even pay for your ticket, you piece of shit.

He's going to sit here with those chunky cute thighs looking around. I had to pay and you just get to fly on this for free. I try to sit on someone's lap, but they don't let me fly, you dumbass baby. And they're like, ma'am, please. Man, please. She's like, okay, okay, okay. I see like an able body healthy baby on a plane. I'm like, you, God damn, motherfucker.

You, you, you, you birth canal, bitch. You South Pole, none of it. Oh, goodness. You stupid air breather. Oh, God. And then the baby looks at it and goes, Are you the last airbag? Exactly.

Oh, man. Well, actually, ironically, babies love me. Baby, like, people will think that, that, like, kids are freaked out. I mean, no, kids love me. I'm like, I'm like, one of them, but bigger, you know, they, they, they, but babies, like, babies, babies don't, don't yet see, like, a difference. You know who does? Yeah.

Dogs. Huh! No. You're lying. Dogs double take. No, you're lying. Yeah, they, not, not with the voice, but with the way that I walk. No, you're lying.

Yeah, a hundred percent small dogs in particular I think they'll I'll be coming up behind them and often in New York especially with their small dogs that are city dogs and maybe a little bit more like fragile

They're they're they'll if they're coming in one way and I'm coming in another they will look up and

I swear they don't want to and then they swim around me to the car and this is the wildest

thing ever I swear I swear and I'm so fancy you have a look at the how do you have a

hell like oh yeah that's that one's bright I feel like, I feel like a disabled dog, like a wheelchair using dog. I wonder like, oh my God. Like, I wonder if they are like ever just like.

I wonder what that could be. What do you think it is? Wait, so when you're coming opposite directions. Yeah. And then you do the dog. Well, again, because. And then there's a part where you walk. you behind them.

The way that I walk, you know, I'm unstable. Yeah. Which, by the way, like, I didn't know that I walked differently until the age of 25. No. Yeah. You know how I learned a roast barrel. I was in a roast battle. Was it in a car?

I was in a roast battle with a friend of mine. with another comedian and who's ironically now, like, were my best friends. And he said something like, oh, Tina's, you know, just an incredible person. Is there anything she cannot do other than walk in those straight lines? And, like, it got a laugh and the comics laughed. It's a roast. Yeah, like, but I was calm because in my head, I thought, like, well, that's not, like, that's uncharacteristic of him to use this, like, random, like,

something not even about me. Like, like, because they- You didn't think that, so we have a friend, he's been on the podcast, his name is Joseph Opie. He's from Uganda. He's got a pretty thick accent. And he, We've talked about this.

His whole life, because he's the most articulate person I know. His vocabulary surpasses everyone that I've ever met, right? But he genuinely thought for like his whole life that he like sounds like Hugh Grant when he speaks. And then like one day I forget what we were having a conversation. And I said to him similar to this. Because we work at the Daily Show together.

And I said to him, I'd go, someone said I didn't understand you or something like that and then he said to me he's like oh Trevor can I ask you a question he's like why do you always repeat what I'm saying to people huh and I said oh because they don't they don't hear what you're saying then he's like no

how can they not hear me and then he said the craziest thing he was like I think oftentimes my command of the English language is even superior to yours then I was like yes but they can't hear what you're saying because of your accent and he went what accent

I said Joe do you joke And I genuinely, I thought he was like, I thought it was the greatest joke ever. So I laughed and then he's like, no, no seriously. What, what accent? I said, Joe, like the all of it accent. What do you mean what? What do you mean what accent? Like you're going to like a slight.

And then he asked people, but he had this this realization you're having. He had this also as like a 30 something year old man. And he said, I, he's like, I'm devastated. He's like, I can't believe it. He was on the podcast talking about. He's like, even now, he's like, he's still in his head. sounds like Hugh Grant using the Queen's English. Yeah.

Well, and that's the thing. You don't know how heavy it will actually hit until you are the person. You think, like, oh, just, oh, my, like, it's humorous to everyone else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But in your head, it really is a mind fuck because it kind of is, well, I can relate actually to that. because when I talk, I sound normal. Like, I sound completely clear and hindered quick. I don't know what the science is behind that,

but like, that's why I say that, like, it always felt a bit like a conspiracy theory that I was, I didn't feel different. It didn't sound different, but everyone told me that I was, and that I need to, like, articulate more. And when you actually do realize that, like, holy shit, like, people are not receiving what I'm pulling out there, or what I'm hearing in my head is a bit like when the tree falls in the forest

and no one's hear it no one can hear it doesn't make a sound and it put me in a whole till span of what I mean I know I'm a person that has a disability and those two things are completely separate But my God, like if to everywhere else they're just seeing all one, then what does it matter? Like, you know, what actually, what exists more?

Is it how I appear to the world that I cannot change? Or is this internal outlook that I have. Right. Yeah, it really became which one, not just which one is more important, which one exists. Yeah. So I know that when I found, when my friend said that that joke about like, oh, she can't walk a straight line. And at first, I was so confused. I thought it was a stereotype.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You thought it wasn't a, because a good roast joke is a joke that is actually about you. And the person is saying something from a place of knowing. A bad roast joke is a joke where somebody just uses a stereotype. It's almost like, well, it's almost like a cheap one because you go like, oh, you didn't actually have a joke about me. So you just made a joke about what could. be about me, but it's not about me. Low-hanging fruit.

Yeah, yeah, that's a, yes, low-hanging fruits. Yeah, and that's why I was shocked. Like, he was a great comic. Like, I was like, what? What did he do this? Did you speak to him about it afterwards? Yeah, so after, we're all piled in a car. Oh, we're back in a car.

We're back in a car. I knew the other car involved. You were not wrong, Eugene. Back in the car. I've got a lot of cars. Well, it's a bit funny, actually. I'm just realizing now that everything that I learned about myself and my cerebral palsy, I learned in a car. Yeah.

Try being on Artemis. Oh, my God. Disability in space. The sequel. I can only imagine what no gravity will affect. Oh, my God. Yeah, anyway. I wonder.

my brain wins. So I was like, yeah, what would be like? I actually get that a lot too. I get people to ask, like, yeah, well, never, I've never gotten that one. I've never gotten, oh, but would zero gravity help? But I have gotten, oh, does alcohol help? Does weed help? Does, um, uh, you know.

Mushrooms? My, well, yeah, every drug, um, does cratum help? Um, even. Even like meditation, even like all... Wait, did someone really suggest meditation? That's a pretty gangster one. I'm not going to lie. That's a pretty gangster one.

I would have expected hypnosis. I have a disability. Have you tried breathing for 10 minutes? In silence. Maybe you should just sit still for a bit and then maybe it'll go. You know, for someone, and I'm not even saying they're an asshole. It's just a funny thing for somebody to say to you. You know what I mean?

I have a disability. Hmm. So if you. repeat a word. Do you have a mantra? You should try using a mantra and say that. Affirmation. Yeah, but meditation is what people offer when everything else has been taken. So they said, have you tried? Have you tried? Have you tried? No, but I get it as well because I see where the person is coming from. They might be watching your movements. Yeah. They might be and they're like shame. This person just needs to learn how to sit still and feel their body and then they will emerge from

this. I can see somebody thinking that. Because here's the thing that we also take for granted in life, right? And I don't want us to forget the car part, by the way, with the friend. But here's the thing we forget in life is we as a society are also not taught things, right? So

we're not taught about disabilities. We're not taught about cerebral palsy. We're not taught most things. So you go, there's a person in a wheelchair. There's a person who walks differently to you. There's a person who speaks differently to you. But because you do not know anything about it, that's all it is

so you then have to use your dumb brain because you have no information to try and quote unquote help the situation because you're like well I don't know what this is so you would suggest meditation because no school has ever taught you about I don't know anyone in school

who learned about disabilities genuinely I'm sure there's like one or two I didn't I don't think you did it I don't think you like in school are we actually learning what that no but I can tell you about different rivers tributaries, perennial and non-perennial rivers.

Cumulonimbus, stratus. That's clouds. I mean, that's how I roll, son. But that has never served me in the world. Not once have I been in a coffee shop with a cloud. It is having a tough day. And then I've gone, hold on, hold on, my friends. I know a few things about stratus.

Wait, let me ask you this. Nimbosstratus. Sorry. I thought that was only your word to use. Wait, let me ask you this. Have you tried meditation? I was like, oh, you were without oxygen for 20 minutes? You just have to breathe.

That's a good thing. For 30 minutes. Yeah, just get it back. Just get it back. It's never too late. Into the guy, but it's really just pop me. That's what started this whole thing. Like it's almost like my brain is just under.

in a fire balloon. And I just need to... Yeah, you just got to puff it up. Breathe into it. Breathe into it. Breathe back like a Pepsi can. So wait, so you were in the car. Yes.

I was in the car. It was a carpool of all the Vermont comedians that going back to their... That's all of them. It is all of them. I feel like you can fit all the comedians of Vermont in a car. Even if a car accident took place there, the whole individual.

She would be dead in Vermont. And tonight in sad news, comedy is dead. Vermont comedy lost its life today in an unfortunate car accident. Valking a clown car. Who are clowns and moving on. Just to be honest. It's true everywhere. Yeah.

So with all of us in the car, we're all laughing it. And again, like I, in the. moment I did not clock it as a real observation. I mean, I thought it was a shitty joke. Yeah. And so I was bantering with them and I said, oh, I mean, the guy, my friend, he sent something at me and I bit back and I said, oh, well, I mean, this guy now here is spreading rumors

that I walk differently. Like, I don't walk. Do it walk differently? And the whole car went silent. Just imagine a car up six comedians. Just sadly. And I'm, and he, again, a lot of like my parents reacted. They just, he just squeaked out. I thought you knew.

Oh, shame. He felt, he felt so terrible. Again, like, he, He's now my best friend. But it really just is that sort of constant, like, I begin to realize that life is just kind of like, life is eight decades of realizing things about yourself and people pick up on in eight minutes, you know? It really, that's the whole journey. And it sort of was, when you're at that age, it's no longer kind of, you pass the point of like, oh my God, what does this say about me? But it really,

I mean, don't get my mind, I did have that moment. Like, oh my God. But then everything made sense. It all made sense. The dogs made sense. And, you know, because at that point, in my early 20s, I dealt with a lot of instances at bars and clubs. and people were thinking that

I was intoxicated when I was and and even ma'am ma'am you've had enough I just walked in no ma'am no ma'am

no and it would be like I just walked in they walk up to me like absolutely not geez this is equally terrible and funny well I do

it's like I do kind of want to counter because I don't want to just say like, I'm disabled and here's a laundry list of all the bad things. There are perks, okay? Like one time I was in London, I walked into the Holly Arms, which is like Amy Winehouse's old hunt. Yeah, legendary.

And there were banishes outside. they stopped me and they thought I was drunk, I began to say it, they realized, and suddenly it was all cleared up. They were like, oh my gosh, you know, they opened the doors, the double doors, and there was this long, I mean, it was peak time, there were just layers of people trying to get a drink. And I was just kind of looking around. I looked back at the bartender who was staring at me, called me back over.

And once I got back to me, parted the seats straight up to the bar with me, just stabbed his fingers. The bartender puts down the drink she's actively making and goes over and the bouncer get her drink. She's lovely. She's just lovely. I think there is, of all the harmful things that happen to be, being disabled,

like, I'm so glad that I'm not forgettable. Like, Hmm, Tina. I just, that would be the worst, you know. I, I often talk so much in interviews and on stage about all the,

the way of having to, you know, constantly alleviate people's discomfort about me. Yeah. But my God. Like, I, I'm so

I feel unbelievably seen by the world for better and worse what's funny is the other day we're having a conversation and then we were saying

if you listen to every critic in your life you'd probably want to bury yourself and never come out again and sometimes people do that they go away for a little bit you know but while you are where you go those people still exist

I still exist and I've just given them what they wanted then you come back and then you have a new lease on life and there are few moments in life where you have this kind of a realization we had it when we're watching the Halcogen documentary and afterwards there was this announcement that was done

and I said to Trevor that announcement that was made sounds the way Hulk Hogan always announces themselves when he's about to make a statement you can't ignore him let me tell you something brother then you pay attention and you can never forget that

Like a lot of people live in this quiet, squeaky voice without expressing themselves properly. And when they see someone who lives loudly like you do or like a Hulk Hogan does or like the president of this country does, we get taken aback because we're so not used to people just going, I'm here and I'm just going to do it and say what I want. Well, and to get back to what you were talking about a minute ago that kind of why people, they judge. or get a little bit to scrundled at me. And yeah, it's the inconvenience, but it is also this, like, I get this often online, that, like, oh, man, well, I have this speech impairment.

I'm disabled. But why the hell am I a comedian? Like, why take up that space? what like that that's what people ask you yeah kind of no but I okay I forget that I'm a comedian let me tell you something brother no I genuinely I forget that I'm a comedian

it's almost like like how self-serving of you to to sort of suscept to come what

And I think the worst take that I have, the most extreme take, is, well, you know that we have to accept you if you're a comedian. So, like, why, why are you, how so serving to do this? And can I tell you something interesting about that, though? We experienced that in South Africa when comedy was burgeoning, there were many. comedians who would say black comedians are only getting a laugh because they're black. Like there was literally a thing where they was just like, oh yeah, it's because they come here and they talk about their tough upbringing and growing up in a township and then people have to laugh because what are you going to do? And we're like, no, but these are funny things. But it's interesting

how you can just you can sort of like find the same people who will apply it to every. non-default and just be like, well, you come in here. Because that's what I say, I take for granted that I am a comedian. When I first saw your comedy, like my friend Ryan put me onto it. And the thing we were just looking at was the gags.

Like genuinely, genuinely, genuinely, genuine. It's like, you know, like with comedy, there's two different ways you watch comedy as a comedian. There's one part where sometimes you're just like watching and observing. And then there's sometimes where you're like watching somebody with like a what I would call like a complementary jealousy where you're just like man the way this person is slicing apart their experience of the world regardless of where it comes from. So it could be a straight white man who's telling you about like how boring and tough his life is in that. And you're going, the way you're doing this is amazing. It could be somebody is a refugee, somebody housewife, somebody who's it doesn't matter.

that was the main thing that I saw where I was just like I was like she this is ridiculously funny because it felt like you were fully observing how you were observed and how people were thinking about you

and not thinking about you do you get what I'm saying oh yeah oh yeah I think when you're in that in that instance you are so hyper aware of how people are

observing you. And the fact of the matter is there are people in this world, if you're a minority, there are people that it does not matter what you do, how good you are. No, no, no, no, no. At anything, what you say, how good a person. Like, they will, they will see it as, you know. An affront almost. Yes, yes, almost like a conspiracy. Yeah. Like, oh, this doesn't belong. This doesn't, this shouldn't exist out here. But again, well, I always use this example. Like, of art, you know, paintings,

I wish I could remember the name of the artist, but there was an artist that would cover a whole canvas one color, one red shade all by just a paintbrush. There was a massive uprising of anger of like, why is this art? This is not art. Even though, for one, the ability to so evenly cover canvas with just a brush is like, incredible. But aside from that, there was such a anger that like, oh, this is not art, that then there became this second window of a, oh, well, it evokes an emotion. So therefore,

it is art. Yeah. It doesn't matter if it's a red square. It's angering people. And that- It's doing something. Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, that's, I think, how comedy is. You, I feel like you can see it a lot in the whole comedy industry of, no matter what you do, just get a reaction. Just any kind of reaction is a good outcome, other poets to just kind of be out there and, you know, being like, I always so much rather

get a visual angry reaction than, then like, okay, that's cool. Yeah, but this is what I come back to is, I've seen this present itself for every type of comedy and every comedian, regardless of their background, people just find the thing that they don't want. But what's more important for me and why I've always loved stand-up, you know, and Eugene and I've talked about this video, I mean, we met through stand-up now. It's like 20 years ago. It's insane.

I am a 19-year-old. Phenom. But like, when you... I wasn't doing that. 20 years ago. Yeah, when you look at, one thing I've always loved about comedy is, it's honest.

And what I mean by that is, you know, we had SD from the comedy seller on the podcast, and we were talking about this. It's, you can fool like maybe one audience and then maybe one audience can feel bad for you, and then maybe one,

you can't do it with everyone. You can't do it nationwide. You can't do it internationally. You can't. At some point, all that's happening is people are coming to watch the show because you're funny and smart in processing the world in some way, shape or form. You know, not smart just like you know things, but every funny comedian I think is smart in the way that they're dissecting words, sentences, ideas, etc. And making an audience have an involuntary response coming out of their bodies.

And I think that's my favorite thing about comedy is it doesn't have a studio on the other side blocking you. It doesn't have like, they aren't like king makers. There's no, you know what people refer to as like industry plants or whatever, whether you believe in it or not. Comedy just doesn't do that. Even audiences, I judge them sometimes. They'll be like, why did that comedian? They were never funny.

Then I'm like, no, no, no. You people were laughing at them when you were. Don't try to own them now. They were of your time. Don't now disown them. And that time was 10 minutes, 5 minutes. It doesn't matter. But people love acting like, you know,

Sometimes people will play a clip of an old comedian even from the 80s. They'd be like, I can't believe people were who would. Then you're like, no, we were as society. Then. Yeah. I know you may not like it now. Maybe it's out of fashion. But there is no comedian who can blow up apart from society.

Yeah. It's just not a thing. Yeah. You can't. You just can't. And that's why whenever we get these comments online of like a viral video of mine and there'll be a comment like, like, man, the pity laughs.

Do you know how hot it is to pity laugh? These are people, can I tell you something? These are also people who don't actually go, that's one of the things I hate about the internet. And I hope you don't live in the comments. I stopped that long ago, Tina. It's just like, when you don't go to comedy, you don't understand how honest a room is.

Yeah. you want to talk about pity laughs I've seen some of the most famous people get on stage movie stars musicians even comedians get on

audience first three minutes yeah they say anything yeah and then at some point the audience is like all right we've run out of the pretty ones

yeah the three ones are gone we can't give you the fame laughs anymore we can't give you the pity laughs anymore we can't and then you just the audience just goes like, all right, we're done. A room is really, really honest.

You know why? Because the room is dark and there's anonymity. So no one in the crowd feels personally responsible for a laugh happening or not happening. And it's also safety because people come with other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Safety of companionship. People can refer to the other person and go, I'm not crazy, man. Yeah, the pity.

You know what I wish you could do? Oh, man, this would be such a great, like, gag for those people. I wish you could do an impression, like, change your voice and then sound like you don't have cerebral palsy just for a moment just for those people it would break oh my god it would explode their brains i thought you're my friend that's what i'm thinking i have a joke like that where well um there it really happened there was a woman who came up to me one time and and said that she loved it but for the first 15 minutes she she thought i was faking that and and like and

in the joke and I say can you believe that? I work so hard on this character. I hate me. That's a good word. I wish so much

but I could somehow say it in a normal voice. Can I tell you? It would be a South African comedian friend of ours, Riyad Musa,

he had a joke like this. So he is from Cape Town in South Africa. So he has a particular accent and he's got like quite a thick one. one as well, right? But he's also a master of mimicry. Can just do any voice. You name, you know, Morgan Freeman, you name it. He just, he nails them all. But it's jarring for people, especially who

aren't from South Africa, to hear him, because he'll have an accent that's quite that, like, you know what I mean? Like his accents. And so we were in Montreal doing shows. And when he was on, on one of the lineups, and he came out and he did like flawless, flawless accents. And then after as one of the comedians came up to him. And they were like, hey man, he's like, you can, you can sound like anyone you want to. And he's like, yeah, no, thank you very much. Then he's like, yeah, why don't you just talk like that all the time then?

That point. And I was just like, you know what? And Rio tells that story on stage, but it's so funny because you go, wait, what? A person's like, yeah, why don't you just, if you, oh, man. Well, it reminds me of Maria Benfair. who's that? So Maria Bamford is this unbelievable committee

and she talks A lot of her comment is about her struggles with mental health and and she but she'll often pull out she's got a very particular way of speaking words

very very talented and just almost like you're hearing the inside of her voice. And it really mimics this kind of chaotic anxiety and disalignment that she has with the outside world. But then she perfectly mimics a normal. or like suburban white woman. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so dialogue back and forth with this normal sounding woman.

And then her. And, yeah, and it's so incredible. It's so unbelievable. I actually where I first found her I just have that thought like oh I wonder if she ever just had that voice to kind of mask yeah you can just like live masking the whole way yeah it's unbelievable but I mean honestly

like if I could even if I had the ability to talk normal I I kind of wonder I think I'd be a bit of a bitch. I think I think I'm just turning to something I end up despising.

I would become the monster. I would just be talk. I know. I think we'll find this newfound power and I would just speak to more, more managers I don't know

I need to be humbled I think that's what God did this absolutely not oh my eyes oh wow can I ask you a question one of the things that's that's always

amaze me about your comedy is your timing and I've always wondered how much of your timing plays into the idea of what we think cerebral palsy may or may not be and how you are actually experiencing it because like your body is not fully in your control but you've learned how to live in yourself or so

but I want to know how you work out the timing because comedy is all the timing how do you do that? Well thank God for comedy because timing is one thing that I can control I learned that the power does comment the pauses and a bit like singing when I speak very slowly and comedy is one of the very few instances where that can be used as an event. Oh, I love that. Okay. And I mean, that's why, you know, I can

even before stand-up, I would use that to my advantage of sort of debilering the sentence that I was saying right at the end, almost just to make sure people were listening to me and not zoning out. You know, I don't know. because I get talked to about my timing in comedy all the time. And really, like, I don't know, it's been one of those things that I've always had it. Right. And, I mean, I use comedy as a kid as a language quite literally to show other people, kids, and adults that I was constantly.

cognitively all here. It's amazing that that is like one of the measures that we have, right? Yeah. No, really. It's truly amazing how. Cuba? Yeah. As soon as somebody does that, you go, oh, oh, shit.

Like, you know, I've seen that happen to some people who don't speak a language well. Oftentimes, I'll see it in English, obviously. Someone who doesn't speak English well. And you can see people around them, treat them like they aren't intelligent. and then when they just drop one joke or one, like you see the people go like, oh, you're here. Yeah.

Oh, like you're fully here. There's like a, even like a person who's like bedridden or, let's say an old person, you know, like literally on their deathbed type thing. And everyone's talking about them in the third person. Yep.

Let them drop a joke. And everyone's like, ah, grandpa's still with us. Sorry, grandpa. We thought you were. It's amazing how that happens, actually. Exactly. I like the way that you put that.

Like it brings it to third person back to, oh, shit. Oh, you're here. Like, you're, hi. Yeah. You know, it really, it really just is a bit of a life hack, you know. Just. And especially now, 32, how old am I? 32 years into my life, I know so much more about how you're going to react to my cerebral palsy than you do.

So it's like I, like, I can see, I can almost see where you're a bit like the algorithm. I can see where your mind's about to go. Oh, okay. And that really helps. like in in terms of being on stage and timing. Well, funny about Esty at the comedy cellar because one story that I had from my time there was I was doing the seller.

She was in the back of the room watching, so obviously pressure is high. And that I'm about to go up on stage, the host leaves into me. So, oh, Tina, hang on, Dave Chappelle just walked in. And he'll go up there and do 20 minutes. But only 20 minutes he has to run after him. So you'll go up after him. And, you know, I kind of, I've seen this.

play out before that like a big name goes up there crushes it and then some guy gets up after it's such a painful position to be in trying to like peril they they're like jokes about their dog but but the whole boom is just like electrified and like you know um and and they bomb but um i i was all this happening all the while Estee, the Booker, is watching, I think, oh, this is how it ends. This is how. Oh, my God. So I think, okay, well, I think to myself the only possible thing that I can do,

is listen to what Chappelle is saying on stage and then come up with a callback joke. and then I can get up there and someone will say that and then they can write that on my epitaph and so he he's about it's incredible brings his own piano player and it is just

commenting on the world and it is so profound And then, by the way, I can say this because he actually did also say this in his special after. But about 10 minutes in, he just says, you know, I know I get a lot of, I get a lot of heat for a lot of kinds of jokes that I make about minorities. So tonight I'm only doing handicapped jokes. I bet there is one handicapped person in this room right now. Just probably in the back, that's where they keep them. Probably just sitting there like, and the whole room laughed.

And he said, oh, probably not. Too many stairs to get down here. Jesus, Dave. And every comic wound up in the back, just looked at me, just, like, and I thought, they were horrified. I, but I was just like, all praise to the handicapped God. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Like, God has to love me. I was just a day. Hallelujah I was like I wanted to She probably had given me the best

possible thing he could ever give me which which it really was that I

now had a bullet I I I could get up there and not

say a thing just and again timing like in the moment the timing just came up

but I knew exactly comedy. I knew exactly. I can see it before it happens. It's a bit like shooting the ball. Like, I got up there.

I'm just, you know, and I just said, lucky guest, Dave. And it's just, not enough fucking stares.

And the whole room just like erupts. And, And, yeah, it's just, I mean, I mean, and that's all it is just, like, to be the walking paratortification of a joke. Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's, those are the, as you say, it's like the greatest gifts you will ever receive in comedy in those. Those are the moments where you're just like, oh, there's a higher power looking out for me and they're a fan of my shows. Yeah. Well, and also, the way the comedy works, it really is, it works a lot like music.

it really is that like, you know, comedy that might be a little bit more provocative like Chappelle. He can, you know, it's a very particular kind of laughter when you're laughing at something you should not be laughing at. It's just almost like minor chord, but it's so good. It is. And it's like, oh. And you talk about it. in the name of the dark room. Yeah.

And they're all collective, where you're just having this devious moment. And it's so good. And then, you know, I can see just the timing of that. And then I come in and I almost resolve the situation. Completely. And it just, it layers on just a whole not level of humor to it.

It kind of was the perfect moment. And yeah, and I go back to Esty the Booker and she I'm just like crying and I'm like I can't believe it worked

and she does, she did not, was not aware of the plate that I had made in my own head about it and she just Oh, isn't it so fine to follow a really big comedian? You know, I mean, that's what I love comedy.

Do you feel most normal in comedy? Like, of all the things in the world, I wonder where you feel the least like you are not part of a club and the most like you're part of the club. Oh, my God. Sorry, no, I don't, I mean, yes. not to step on you but yes

I mean I feel more comfortable talking to 250 people than I do talking to two people well thanks

you didn't have to say two people there's only two people here Tina you just you could have said like a metaphorical number like one or five you didn't have to say I feel more comfortable talking to 250 than you two losers then I feel way more comfortable

talking to two people than two, South Africans, I feel way more comfortable. I'm mad, uncomfortable right now. I'm working at the cross, guys. You've been out there, an hour for me. I'm still, I don't know about you guys. I don't know.

Oh. But I mean, like, I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think I, there is this like level of control that you have when you're on the stage of it's the most you'll ever be able to control how you perceived. Oh, yeah. And that's huge. Also, a lot of the comedy, you know, as much as much as. I absolutely adore touring and performing from my fans

I love going to the comedy summer and performing for people that have no idea who I am. It is the best. It really, like, because fresh meat, you know, like,

you've lived around student campuses for too long. And there's no perceived notion of me in. And for, For better and for worse, I know that I said earlier that I wish I could just, every person that I meet, I wish I could just have this whole conversation with them, the context of it. But that's all that my comedy is.

I'm not kidding about anything. All I'm doing is just, uh, saying what I wish it would be okay to say in real life on the street across the hot dog cart, you know? Yeah, I mean, standard of comedy, it's miraculous that I've got into it because it kind of found me like it. It finds all of us. Yeah. That's what it does. Actually, I feel like that I say cop out things.

No, no, no, it does. But it finds all of us. The one thing I'll say to you is, I hope this proves to be true, is don't take for granted the moment that you're in because there's a weird thing that happens with comedy where, like, at some point as Tina, everyone

that's what I'm saying I hope it does come to be true everyone will have heard you and everyone will know you and everyone and I genuinely know for a fact there'll be a part of you that goes like damn

I wish you guys hadn't heard of me because now do you know what I mean it's this weird dichotomy that we have in comedy where as a comedian you'll spend your whole career

wishing everyone knows you and then you'll spend the remainder of it wishing nobody knew you because because the surprise that you possess and the ability that you have to completely construct an artificial idea of you on any given night is a superpower that nobody appreciates until they don't have it. And then you hit it and then immediately you walk on stage and then people go, ah, okay, it's Dave Chappelle. Ergo he has to do this or not do this or there's a preconceived notion.

It's like, ah, this person is. They have to do it. You know what I mean? It's this weird, you know, it's like you want to wish to get to the top of the mountain, but on the other side you only can go down, not down as in bad, but it's like you can't go up from the up. It becomes a different journey now. Yeah, yeah, you can't exceed expectations. Yes, that's a perfect way to put it.

Yeah. Louis C.K. said it to me in the most beautiful way one day. He was talking to me right before I started the Daily Show and he said at the comedy cell, at the comedy seller, he said, don't take for granted. He said, what do he say? He said, enjoy the moments that you are not known because you can only be not known for a certain amount of time. And he says, and when that goes away, you're just known.

I was like, oh, this is a weird thing. What do you tell you? You know what I mean? It's just like a random thing someone's telling you. Some advice really doesn't land until you've experienced it. Yeah. But from a performer's point of view, I got it. if you're a musician, think about it.

You know, it's that old adage they say for musicians, you have your whole life to write your first album. And we get the album and we go, what amazing music, who are you? Wow, this is so beautiful. Then the second album comes out. Then we're like, okay, it's not, look, your first album is still my favorite,

but this is great. And the third album is like, oh, are you still singing about heartbreak? Oh my God. Or fourth out, you don't sing about heartbreak anymore. You know, their voice is a little, like the thing they do. It's amazing.

quickly you can go from being a breath of fresh air to just being bad breath. Huh. Damn. Wow. So I hope you just hold this moment for yourself for as long as it will be because it won't be at some point. And then you'll look back and go, damn. You know, you'll turn to someone and be like, did that? And they're like, oh, no, I know everything about you, Tina.

I love your vibe. I love your vibe. You're not throwing me off at all, Tina. And then you're like, damn. Even the dogs in the street would like, Tina. What's up to you? Who let Tina out? Tina!

Come towards me. It's a hump in my way. Don't press anything. We've got more. What now? After this. You are arguably the most incredibly lucky person ever. Lackiest person I've ever met.

Because what could have ended your life set you on a course. brought you into a world with parents who played for a living who took you to go play with them for a living and you met people who play for a living in the theatre then you went and played for a living so everything that has happened to you that is monumental that is sort of a discovery of what the disability brought out of you

because I don't think you are the disability it just brings out stuff out of you was your seven-old brother and obviously the car ride going home when you made their realization after the roast And after that, it was smooth sailing for you Because those two truths were enough And they were fact But the fact that the doctor was able to get to the hospital on time

Resuscitate you And your parents had you for the rest of their lives Trying to shelter you from not losing yourself It's a gift that you can give to everyone else When you live loudly and get on stage And that's incredible Thank you! Yeah

I mean that's people You know I get painted inspiration a lot. And, you know, I have a very complicated relationship without inspiration. I think, I'm sure that you both get that to. And it doesn't land in the way that I think people want, expect it to land in you.

Because, like, you know, oftentimes, like if I'm doing this article or talking to a fan they'll ask kind of what why are you doing this? What's the goal? How are you looking to get to imprint on everyone? And you know, now I kind of have developed this media trained and you know I think that even though disability is only relative to a certain

section I think that the need for acceptance is universal. That's the immediate trained in to in reality I don't have a goal like I you know I talk about my in that I'm living in the bonus round you know because I it was game over from the onset yes and then the the doctor put a few

quarters in and um and I do have a joke about this really that like I'm now on free play and like I'm above the law and nothing matters And I mean, just like a lot of my jokes is a joke, but I'm hiding in plain sight. And I really is 100% true that in any given moment, I never lose sight of the fact that I'm not really supposed to be here.

How many times have I told you this? Yeah, Eugene says that all the time. Yeah. Yeah, and how unbelievably disruptive it is that the odds have fallen in this direction. And not only that, you know, it sort of led me to this career where I am impacting so many people, But again, to get back to kind of growing up in a theater with this kind of delusion of fiction, you know, and well, of course this can happen. And this, no, I think I do owe a lot of where I got to, because. somewhat of the lines, along with motor function,

I also lost this kind of voice in my head that, like, I need to curb my expectations on reality. And that almost, I mean, it does feel a little bit like a simulation. a bit, not to get a little bit too meta about it, but, um, I mean, there is this constant voice in my head of, well, yeah, of course, of course this happened, of course, you know, comedy happened, and and I'm sitting with you guys because I'm supposed to be dead. and for some reason that didn't happen my life feels kind of like a sequel

damn that's an amazing way to think about it let me tell you something you know the thing you're saying about not knowing how to or rather the term you're such an inspiration not landing Atzuko was on the podcast

and we were chatting about about this. And we're joking about it. She's saying she learned very early on when people are like, you're so brave. That means they don't see you in like a good light. They're like, man, your shit is. When they're like, you're such an inspiration. They're like, I do not wish I had your life. That's what people are essentially saying. I would bother die. Yeah, that's what people. But there's also, there's also another layer to it that I think we shouldn't take for granted, right? In life, we are living as us technically for ourselves. You know, I'm not saying you can't live for others and do they, but we are living as us for ourselves. What we take for granted is the fact

that we are affecting others around us whether we want to or not. And so you don't need to choose to be an inspiration to be one. You just are one. And it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, It's a strange paradigm for people to accept because we sometimes think it comes with a responsibility or an obligation or an idea of how we should be moving through the world. But it's like, no, no, no, no, it's not that. And I mean it on every level, not just in the world of like fame and fortune. I think of how many parents were an inspiration to their kid without them knowing, genuinely. You know, you'll talk to people who go like, who's your biggest inspiration?

They go like, oh, man, my mom, she worked three jobs. and she'd come home and she'd still make time to love us and you know, it was so amazing to see how she would. But then when you talk to the mom, the mom's like, huh? She's like, what other option did I have? What do you mean?

You can't not love your kids and you can't not work for them and you can't. And they'd be like, yeah, but that inspired us. Mom, she's like, inspired. Get out of here with your inspiration. I was just living the life that I was meant to live and I had to live. But I think both things can be true at the same time.

And I don't think we have to take it for granted. It's somebody just observing you from the outside going, what you naturally do or how you are makes me feel a certain way and I appreciate that. And then if you are the person who's receiving that, almost just go like, oh, good for you. Do you know what I mean?

It's like, good for you. I'm happy that that is, because I often think of it this way, is like I don't know what the opposite, is it a desperation? What is the opposite of inspiration? I don't know what the opposite of that would be. What's the antonym? repulsion.

I mean, I guess uninspired, but I'm going to say desperation. Actually, you could be right. Yeah, you know what I mean? But imagine if somebody walked up to you and they were like, hey, I just want you to know that you're the most uninspiring person I've ever met in my life. And we take for granted.

Don't take it selfishly. But if you can inspire anyone, what a cool thing in life, man. You are just doing your own thing. Yeah. And somebody else got the benefit of. of that. Like you were the shark just eating something and then there was a fish swimming next to you like, yeah, thank you so much, shark. I wasn't going to get that if it weren't for you. And you're like, what? Shut up. I'm just being me. And the person's like, yeah, but I live because of you.

I think there's a beautiful non-zero-sum part of life that exists in that. You just get to be you. And because of that, I feel like there's something better and greater. It makes me see more in the world. but just be you you just continue being you it's one of the few things that you can achieve without playing any extra effort

yes yes yes yeah exactly it's like being an inspiration and being a crush like those yeah you have nothing to do and being a crush you have nothing to do with any of those it just happens without you

like Tim Roberts I didn't do shit. But, but yeah, yeah, that, it's, maybe actually,

that's why it feels so weird to be called it to your face. It, it is like being like, I have a crush on you. And. Yeah, you don't know how to respond to you. Yeah, it's like,

well, like, keep that to you. Can I have a response? Now you just, like, this is the, in truth of, intrusive thoughts in my head when you say certain things.

I was not glad you have those. I mean, he is my intrusive thoughts, so normally... No, but like, do you ever encounter guys who have a crush on you, but because they're fetishizing you in some way? All the time. Yeah. Oh, right. It really, it began to happen with my comedy.

I never had it in the... I think stepping into the public, I made it much more apparent for me. But that's why when I was on the apps, I would always struggle. When in this whole process do I say that I am disabled? Because I did learn that I was balancing this precarious world of lots of guys where they were not attracted to me because I'm disabled. And then the subject of other guys. Yeah.

And then there's this guy. A pseudoscientist. And, you know, and the tricky thing is, I think, you know, people that might fantasize disability, they don't just, they don't know it. It's not like them fantasizing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anime girls or something. It really, because when you're fantasizing disability, what you're really fantasizing is the need for help. the that's the that's the that's the that's the

yeah yeah the weakness or dependency dependency and I yeah I do

often I get that it's but it creeps it you know it's it's hard to sort of

I'm still enjoying I think of dishearting I mean I'm single still so this is

like an ongoing I think you in particular you'd find it difficult to date someone who fetishizes

you or your disability because you are everything you're the opposite of what they think you'd be you're immensely

popular you are very confident you're outspoken, you're independent. Well, and funny enough, I think that's almost why people that

might finish a disability are actually more attracted to me because there is this sort of you know, I have the guys that are very open about the

feeling that really tickle them. in a good way that that I was this powerhouse that I was confident and successful and

looked upon and yet like I was relied on them wow that's so many levels deep yes

I actually have had full discussion with an ex-partner mine who about whether or not fantasizing disability is actually right or wrong.

I love those. Those exit interviews with an ex. That's when you get to know who you could have been dating. Because I've never been that honest. It did make me question for you. Exactly. Like, why you are

I'm going for this. But it was like, interesting a devil's havoc. Yeah, exactly. Maybe they're just into spitting. But I think, you know, generally, like, the debate would be, well, you know, it is easy. say, of course I don't want someone who fetishizes my disability. But then, I mean, I do want someone who's attracted to me, and that means all of me. So, and, you know, disability, I've had a whole other conversation that I love having is disability and attraction.

And how those two things, you know, disability biologically being something that human beings perhaps should not be attracted to. And how despite that, we make it happen. And whether that is a conscious effort based on society. now or if that really is a biological adaptability but I'm just trying to find a boyfriend man

is that too much to ask I'm just a girl well you know what's interesting about it is I like what you just said because we forget that these things exist everywhere in every shape in every form it's just some are sort of more

unique than others because of how infrequently they occur so there's people who fetishize like someone will be like big boobs and the guys are in that's all they fetishize big butt I'm in and then there's women who fetishize tall guys

are tall tall tall is the taller the better oh he's so tall and you're like what is it about him just like he looks like he could just like pick me up and he kisses me on my forehead and you're like what but there's people who fetishize things about other people all the time.

They have a type. Yeah, it's true. They have a type. But because it is not something that we commonly encounter, we then might have a more negative reaction towards it. But we wouldn't the other way.

I've met couples who go, oh yeah, he knows I'm into da-da-da. That's why I was, that's why I'm with him. He knows I've got a thing for, blah, blah, blah. She knows that I'm into. And he happens to be that thing. So he's safe.

There's also the person. I get you. But the thing that I fetched. to shy about them as a partner, they have it. And so you're like, you're in this world that's like, I've had a discussion about friends with this way I go,

sometimes I think if we're not careful, the, I mean, I wouldn't want to use the word like woke in that way, because not like the way people use it in like, you know, in political discourse, but more just like, sometimes you can be so woke that you're unwoke. You know what I mean?

So now you're almost going like, hey, do not purve my friend Tina. She does not deserve that. You do not think about taking her to your bedroom. Tina's like, please take me. No, but that's what I mean. It's like, if you're not careful, you can become. so considerate that you're inconsiderate. You're so like overly now you actually...

You're overly woke. Yeah, you restrict the person from having a full human experience because you in your infinite niceness slash considerateness have now been inconsiderate and go, this person cannot have that or I must protect them from it. You know, they might even like want to overly protect you. That guy's no good for you. No, no, no.

It's like, yeah, yeah, your boyfriend's also not good for you. It's okay. go, let's go, let's keep this thing, you know what I mean. Well, and that is exactly what I'm talking about, that it's so easy to rock off that notion of like, oh, of course I wouldn't want to date a person who fantasizes disability. And yet, the more that I think about it, I'm like, well, but also, like, I wouldn't want to be loved despite being disabled.

Oh, damn. I want to be loved and disabled. Like, I don't want there to be a pretty honestly large part about me that is tolerated. Yeah, the person looks at you and go, if this wasn't there, this would be perfect. Perfect. Not even that sometimes. It could be the other thing. It's not even them saying that it's them in a way treating it like it is the one part of you that sort of

shouldn't be there, but they're in the, do you gonna mean? So not even tolerating you or not even thinking about you should be perfect. It's almost like pity and love. Pity and love don't mix. Oh, God. You don't ever want to be pitied in love. You just want someone to love you. Yeah.

So you would rather, I think, I would rather be fetishized and loved than to be pitied and loved. Unless you're an orphan. Because you know, that pity comes with that love and that's how you live in the home in the first place. Oh, I thought you were like a couple in the bedroom.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I thought you're talking about fetishes with orphans. It's like, damn, bro. Oh, and you're an orphan. Describe your friend, Tina. Oh, my God. So, who is your daddy? Who is your dad?

You don't know who your daddy is, do you? You don't know who your daddy is at all. That's why this works. I'm loving this. Oh, man. Tina, this has been too much fun. We could do this forever with you. I know.

We've got to do this again. I mean, it's a, it's a. pity and also a joy that you live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. No, but I'm just up the road. We should definitely, we should just hang again. This is like so much fun. Can we?

Yeah, of course. No, because just like comedian vibe. Eugene and I talk about this all. Play, as you're saying. Yeah. You know, I was just thinking about something, again, crazy thought. A lot of people, I mean, myself included, will watch podcast videos, et cetera, whatever.

And then I'll, in parts of it, I'll play at double speed. Someone's going to play a part of this conversation double speed. Oh, yeah. And then your voice is going to sound different, maybe even more normal, funny enough. That's an interesting. I actually fully expect all people with all my podcast to be watching Spent Up. Yeah, but think about how crazy that is.

Because then they're going to go, wait, wait, wait, let me go normal speed. And then they're going to think something broke on their YouTube. Yeah. It looks wide. You know where we're going to get comments? Only your guest is in point two five. Something is wrong with your video. Please check your video is stuck.

Your guest is in point five. And you, what's happening on this video? You better fire some other. Then there's going to be someone who goes, what's wrong with the subtitles? Oh, man. No, for real. Just like, just selfishly for me, as a comedian.

I was just like when Ryan put me on because we have such we have similar tastes in comedy and when he put me on I was like this is one of the funniest

things I have ever experienced and it's been a joy watching you like on your journey go from like clubs to theatres to nationwide tours but as Eugene says

like selfishly for comedy like vibes man you know what I'm we're always looking for like more vibes like in comedy and you know what I mean oh and I know

I feel like nowadays comedy is more individual. It's more isolated. Yeah, it is. No, it is. It is. It is social media, promotion, pouring.

And so, like, being able to sit down. We hang with each other less than ever. Yeah. Yeah. Less than ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. You look back at, like, the history of the comedy store and the seller and, um, You realize how much comedy was just a hang?

Yeah. It was a hang. The sets were extensions of the hang. They were. In fact, that's what I feel, you know, that's one of the things that always to break my hearts around comedy was every time I would hear about a comedian who had committed suicide, it was always on the road alone in a hotel room. It was never at home in the city where they lived in.

Or at a club. No, it was never that. Or on an ensemble. show where there was a lineup. It was never that. It was always alone, on tour, in a hotel room. But it's safe to say our thing doesn't exist in isolation. No, it doesn't. Yeah.

Yeah. No, you have to. And that's what, yeah, I always do point to every comedian has an airplane joke. They have a hotel room joke. And I mean, it's a sign of like, you're being taken.

away from the very thing that made you who you are. So I, I'm going to get some heat for saying this, but like, I cannot wait for this this rise of comedy in social media to, to die. Damn, say more. I think for so many reasons. And I say this. I'm a comedian who owes her career to social media. Oh, so you want to pull the ladder up.

I see what Tina's saying. Now that I'm in, it's time to shut this shit down. Get wrong. No more comedy for you losers from the Internet. I was the last one. We thought there was three for two of a kind. It's not an arc. It's Adamus 5.

We've had enough. All those. No way. Yeah, enough comedians. No, but like, I, you know, for a variety of reasons, I think that,

I mean, watching comedy, 60 seconds a time, when I began to get back into making an actual effort to watch stand-up hours on Netflix, Hulu, wherever I was. Yeah.

I realized that so many comedians that I follow and know personally, I had no idea what their voice was. Oh, interesting. I had no clue because I would see crowdwork. I would see just viral minutes. And for one, the... The whole, my whole list of top 10 comedians totally rearranged itself in a way I didn't expect. And so the way that I view putting my comedy online, it's not like putting your art in a gallery.

It's like viewing someone's art from outside the gallery in a parking. lot, that's also a parking lot to like a convention center and a stadium and the strip club. Like, it's... All together. All together. The Herbert Live Convention. It's just like, I don't know. I, it does make it accessible and that's good.

but I think it's great for discovering that you actually like stand up but now I think it's just gone on for too long So if I may

this is this is the way I see it so I agree with what you're saying if there's one part of it where I would sort of you know deviate from how you feel about it I came to realize

a while ago that in every art, in every medium, you have to accept the reality that you have to meet people where they are. And no medium, no art form, no platform, no space has ever enjoyed seeing itself shift or see itself viewed in a different way or from a different place. I'm sure there was a world where people were really pissed off when people started making prints of art I'm sure there was a world people were like no

you can't make a print of the Mona Lisa you go and I genuinely know that I used to be like one of those people in many ways but then I realized one day I went some people are never going to see the Mona Lisa most people are never going to see the Mona Lisa ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever

ever ever in person ever, ever, ever, ever, ever in person. They just won't. I have to suspend the purity that I have for this, you know, my awe and my admiration for this art form and think of the people first because I've seen comedy go through booms and busts. You know, when I started doing comedy

and when I first came to the US, it was sort of like bust phase comedians weren't really doing well clubs weren't doing that great and it goes in waves by the way it keeps you know so your wish is going to come true at some point but it's weird how it happened there was a point where like every comedian got a sitcom

you did like a tight 10 at Montreal and you had a sitcom you did a good late night spot and you got a sitcom that's how it like worked for a while you just got a deal and then that's boom yeah yeah that died and then it just died and then it was like all right people are on the road and you're just grinding and you're doing comedy and you're grinding and you're doing comedy and there were a few outliers who were stars

but people were just like doing comedy doing comedy doing comedy and then comedy started making you know it started making waves again i think around like the netflix era it started like doing something again it became you you sort of saw it in the in the public domain it wasn't just comedy fans who consumed comedy yeah and then that that just as that wave you thought it was dipping down, social media came in in a new way. And I've had this conversation with a bunch of comedians. And I genuinely don't say this as somebody who hasn't held the opinion. I say this as somebody who's now changed my opinion.

At first I would go, I don't know, this crowdwork and these videos. But then I went, those people are way more likely to watch an hour and are way more likely to come to a comedy club than if they never got that 60 second clip. And because I love stand-up comedy as a medium and as an art form and as a space, this is, and that's why I hate like fractions and fractions and fractures in comedy. Like, I hated when comedians even act like they know what. I'm like, guys, we must never forget that we were the misfits. We were the misfits.

When I see comedians becoming the jocks, I'm like, ah, you forget, how quickly you forget where you came from. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not talking about like punching up or punching down. Forget that. I'm just saying how quickly you forget that you came from not being the mainstream in your life. You were not the popular one. Your views were not popular. Your friends were not popular.

Your vibe was not popular. That's how you got into comedy. And then as comedy has blown up, you have now become the jock. And I'm like, yo man, don't ever forget why you got into it. Don't forget how it freed you. Don't forget. And so for the people, I genuinely selfishly for comedy go, there are going to be many moments where, you know, it's like my younger brother, he's 20, 21, 20, I always lose track. He's 21, 22 maybe.

Barely, he like never watches movies. When he does watch a movie, he watches it on TikTok. Really? Yeah, like full on, full on, full on. So I would say, have you watched Arrival? And he'd be like, no. And I'd be like, oh, it's this movie where aliens arrive and they speak through time and they see time differently.

And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no. And then he'll talk. He's like, oh, yeah, I've seen that. I saw that on TikTok. Then I'm like, no, no, no, the movie. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I saw it on TikTok. Then I'm like, you saw the trailer? And he goes, no, I watched the movie on TikTok.

Then I'm like, my friend, you cannot watch a movie on TikTok. And he's like, no, you can. And then he showed me how on TikTok people will take a movie, splice it up into little like six minutes or 10 minute chunks. Wow. And then you just go like part one, part two. But the main thing is they cut out everything that you as an old school movie viewer would consider like the fidelity of like the opening scene. So like get to the point.

Establishing shots. And just, yeah, they just go like, let's go plot, plot. Let's keep this thing moving. Let's go. I hate that. That's how I felt. But then I went, when was he going to watch this movie? And here you are talking about.

about the same movie. Yes, and I was going, which do I prefer? There are many movies that I've never watched in my life from before my time. And people will tell me, you've got to go back. You haven't seen Hitchcock's film about. You don't, oh my God, you don't know cinema. Ah, man, good luck. Trevor Hens out too much at synagogues.

Good luck catching, good luck getting me to go back and watch that. Yeah. But I go, yeah, but at least there are kids who may not have what, we consider the, you know, the real bona fide experience of the film, but they are closer to it than nothing. Yeah. And so, please trust me, I'm completely with you in the feeling, but I then go like, nah, you know what, how they come in is how they come.

You know who you used to do this well? I guess they still sort of do churches. They're like, how you come to Jesus? We're not worried about it. Come as you are. No, no. And what brings you? We don't worry.

It could be that you hit rock bottom It could be that you brought a friend It could be that And that that like welcoming inclusive feeling Is one that I've tried to adopt in comedies Where I go What brought you here? You know where where mine would go?

The first time I had to deal with this Was when somebody said that they liked me Because they had watched Like some other like clippy comedian Who wasn't even a stand-up That's the one that got me There were people who were making Have I told you about this?

People would make fake stand-up shows of you? No, no, no, of themselves online. They would stand up in front of a green screen. No. And then they would use editing software to make it seem like they were in a comedy club

and they would put laughter in. Oh, yes. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, and people would watch this and... And if you watch it as a comedian, it's uncanny valley, you'll find yourself going, something's weird here.

that joke doesn't sound as funny as that laugh. At first you go, am I being a hater? Am I? But then you go, no, no, no. There's a craft of comedy that I understand. That timing doesn't match that. That pauses. And then you go, oh, and then I found out there were a bunch of people doing this.

It really blew up during COVID. So they weren't comedians like stand-ups. And they'd make these shows. And they would do quite well. And someone said to me one day, oh, I love your show. So I actually, I was a big fan of this thing. And then I saw you, and then I loved yours and then I was like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa how dare you like

that and like me yeah yeah how dare you do you understand that I am a come I like yo man how they come is how they come yeah yeah how they come is how they come you know how I started liking sushi first I just ate fish fingers yeah hmm I was not a sushi I hated sushi most of my life really my whole yo the first time was a girlfriend at the time she gave me sushi i was like this is disgusting it is unnecessary and most importantly is un-African this here i can never eat this i was like this is madness here you are giving me raw fish to eat i don't understand how we even paid this how is this restaurant's split in business this is a scam they gave us raw fish and we paid them for it and

now when you see me today i mean but how did i start fish fingers got me and fish fingers with a gateway drug Fish fingers to Nagiri. So what I'm saying is, Tina, like, maybe we shouldn't judge the fish fingers because they could bring it, you know, bring us more people towards sushi. Yeah, I mean, it's true that, yeah, there's, you know, the ego of it that I'm coming from,

and then there's the logic of it that you are coming from. That, like, I think the ego in me says, I work so hard Yeah No we all have that Yeah Perceived in 60 second

Fish finger bites Like Like This is my Art This is not Dino Nuggets

Um But you're right You know That it needs I can agree That the accessibility of it. We rely on that,

I think maybe more than we like to admit. Yeah. I know that before a comedy, sorry, before social media, I had a whole opposing

gripe that I found that comedy, when people would come to a comedy show and maybe it's a bit of an amateur show. And they do not love it, they think, oh, I guess I'm just not a comedy. Oh, yeah, I would hate that.

When people are like, I'm not a fan of comedy, I was like, no, that's not possible. You just haven't found your comedian. It's not a real thing. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, no. Sorry, this brings an interesting point.

It almost feels like social media, the internet is consuming, is cannibalizing every industry. It is. At some point, filmmakers hate. the kids that make TikTok videos. Yeah, they do. Musicians hate AI music. Yeah, yeah, they do. Comedians, obviously, we know who we hate.

We're not going to tell them because now they'll know. Journalists, financial advisors, because there's people who with their shirts off in six-packs and selling forics and driving a Lamborghini in Miami and giving financial advice. So I guess, yeah, it is consuming everyone. But I think the true artists of every trade, whether it's financial services, movies or acting, they'll always emerge because I feel like the true thoroughbreds of any industry will always win. Yeah. Maybe all that I'm feeling is, I just hope,

and maybe it won't never happen. But I'm hoping that there is still this funnel, this filter from social media consumption into the bigger art form. Yeah, that's what we all happen. Yeah. No, that's what we all hope. I don't even think it's going to happen.

I think it is happening. I think it's always happened. There is zero chance I would have ever gone to a baseball game. Had I not seen baseball highlights growing up in South Africa on Gillette World Sports Special. There was no world. And I'm sure someone would say you can't distill baseball down into highlights. But that's how I got it. That's how I got basketball.

That's how I got all the sports that I never would have gotten. And so to sort of go back to the thing we were saying just a while ago, the people are being inspired by something we may not wish for that to be the inspiration someone might go you go like no this 60 seconds is not me and it's like that is true but it's the beginning of you and it's a piece of you and it's better than none of you yeah

and so for me I go like yeah you know that'll be it yeah I mean it is a bit of an ego of death I think we all have no matter who we are in our life that we realize we're never going to fully be able to be perceived 100% authentically as we are. So we may as well let that go. Let like all this, yeah, the inspiration and how I used to feel.

I'm like, no, you don't know the whole story. I'm like, oh, they're never going to know the whole story. I love that. And maybe that's what inspiration is, it's taking what they take from you. You know? That's how. That's the most amazing thing.

That's exactly how I feel every time I'm in business class. I'm like, no, you don't know the whole story. But as they pass to go to coach, I'm like, take this inspiration. Take this as a good. This only Eugene could take a meaningful moment. Yo, Tina, this was too much fun. Thank you. For real, for real.

This was just like too much, too much, too much fun. I hope we catch you backstage on the road somewhere in a thing. But either way, let's just do this again. Are you on the, you all too? I'm sporadically. Sporatically. Yes, I go where the road takes me. Forever there's a road I found myself about to go.

I like that. Are you New York and LA? South Africa? You know what's interesting? Maybe I give off this vibe. I have never been L.A. People always think I, like, lived there. They think, no.

I've been New York, but most of the time, South Africa. Bairn-Dur-Dur-D-D-D-D-D-D-D. Living down in South Africa, just living my life. Cricket politicians in the elephants industry. Thanks, Joe. This was fun. This is so fun. You are so good.

Yes. What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Senaziamin, and Jess Hackle. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiou. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random Other Stuff by Ryan Parduth. Thank you so much for.

listening, join me next week for another episode of What Now?