What Now? with Trevor Noah - WORLD CUP Bonus Episode: Quarterfinals

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

In the penultimate episode of this World Cup bonus series, Trevor and Joe break down a dramatic quarterfinal round, from England's tense victory over Norway to the bizarre "Cable of God" skycam controversy that had everyone talking. Along the way, they debate the nuances of the World Cup draw, what truly makes a football team great, and look ahead to the semifinals. Plus, Joe-stradamus returns with bold predictions, backing Argentina to reach the final and Spain to overcome France in a clash of contrasting styles. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode is brought to you by Verizon. As an official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026, Verizon is bringing once-in-a-lifetime experiences to their customers. Free tickets to matches, pitch-side access during gameplay, and meet and greets with soccer legends. If you're not with Verizon, no sweat. Stop by a Verizon store to get in on the action and learn about their offers for new customers.

No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup, 2026. than Verizon. This is What Now with Trevor Noah. Well, welcome to it. The final week of the World Cup. And what feels like the final week of our lives, I have to say this is probably my least favorite part of the World Cup. It's my least, yeah, you know, when you're turning towards the end,

I already, I don't know that you're feeling the same thing, but I'm having the blues. Like, you know when you go on completion and then it's about to end, like two days away and you're like, and I have to go back to my normal work day. I have to go back to the plantation. It's just like fading away from all the joy, fading away. I almost wish they had a like a come down routine from the World Cup.

They should have the World Cup. And then what they should do is they should replay or reinvent some of the matches that we didn't get to see. Just to let us, you know what I mean? You don't want to quit cold turkey. Yeah, we can't. Like methadone. Yeah. But for the World Cup.

I mean, when you put it that way, yeah. I'll accept it because I am addicted. But yeah, like I wish they just had like a, you know, let's have a few other games. Could we see Brazil versus Spain maybe? Oh, okay. Could we see Argentina versus. Low stakes, but still. Yeah, just like, you know, you know, for fun, for fun.

They can play for Halen's raccoon. No, I'll tell you one thing, that Monday, next Monday is going to be rough. Yeah, it will be, man. Next month is going to be rough because you're going to be looking back like, oh my God. There are people who are going like, we can't wait for next Monday. They are probably spouses. who are like we can't wait for next month. Spouses and family members,

everyone in the house who didn't have access to the TV is now excited. Who didn't have access to their own family member who is addicted, who has been thinking Halland,

Messi, Kane, Mbapé. Now they can finally give the kids attention. They can finally, yeah. I mean, this is why Infantino is proposing 64, expanding the World Cup.

I feel like Infantino, his end goal, his end goal is to expand the World Cup to the point where it's just the whole year? No, I think to expand it to the point where it's the World Cup where everyone is playing, yes, like literally, because he knows, and I think I told you this before.

Infantino is both, you could say, corrupt and evil in a very cartoonish way, like in a very doctor evil kind of way. But he knows he has a thing in a chokehold. He knows once the ball is kicked. Like you can complain and mourn and once the ball is kicked. Yeah, but I think to call him a villain is to simplify it too much.

much. I don't think Infantino's a villain. I think he's just in charge of a thing that we love more than anything. Yes. And just like any organization, especially like a multinational organization, there's elements of it that we'll disagree with. Okay. But who of us can deny the expanded format was better for the fans, was better for the World Cup, and was better for the world. I'll give it up to him. We'll give it up. The reason I call him a villain is because he's using the thing that we love, like Dr. Evo. He's using it to achieve his dream. of global domination. That's what in Pantino is doing.

And the thing is every once in a while, he gets proven right. Like you can't argue. We complain bitterly about the expansion. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people are.

Maybe not as much. Maybe smaller nations not as much because we're like, oh, this is our chance to actually get in. But the bigger countries really wind. And then look what happened. He has been proven right again.

If Pantino has gone and done it again. If it's expanded to 64 nations, I think it would be, there would be no third place it would just be straight into knockouts it would be more efficient actually but there would just like be more games

but that's the thing that's what I'm calling him evil and corrupt in a cartoonish way but isn't this okay but wait let's let's talk about this for a second isn't this what we always argue about let's take it out of football okay right the thing we'll often argue about

in societies we'll say we want to try and make things more accessible. We're like, you know, why aren't there more grocery stores in poor neighborhoods? And why don't we give poor children access and blah, blah, blah. Now, right? This is the thing that we say. No, something I just come in my mind.

Go on. No, because when you talked about more access to food in poor neighborhoods, I started thinking of Uganda and Kenya and Tanzania. And I'm like, oh, my God, these are like food deserts, but football. These are football deserts. Yes. And in Ventino is like, I'm trying to bring more football to these. And what we'll always argue in societies will say,

We've got to bring it. Now, a lot of people will say that's charity. That's, well, come on, let the, but economists who often step into the fray will say the same thing. We are neglecting X amount of dollars or euros or whatever currency you want to use. They'll always say, by neglecting these markets, by underserving them, by not providing them the services they need, by not making sure that they have trees and parks and all that, they will show you a dollar amount that you're losing. I like how you've taken it completely out of football. But think about it. They'll show you a dollar amount.

So they'll show you how much money, traffic is costing you. They'll show you how much money bad health care is costing you. They'll show you how much money not having maternity leave is costing you. Do you get what I'm saying? Yes, no, I hear you. So if you can boil access, equitable access down to money as well, the upside, there should be an upside.

Don't get me wrong. I know I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I go, shouldn't the reward for including And you know when you say devil's advocate, you're literally playing devil's advocate with Infantino. Because, no, but go on. But think about it. Shouldn't, shouldn't there be a reward for inclusion? Inclusivity should be a reward.

No, there should be. And the thing is, and again, I hate being on your side and I hate being on Infantino's side. But people said the World Cup would be diluted. Join us, Joe. Embrace the dark side. Embrace the dark side. Accept that. No, here's the thing.

People complain. And I was among them, but because I've come from a small country, I also saw where Infantino was how it would benefit me. But people complained about how this would dilute the World Cup, how this would devalue the greatest tournament in World Football. And look, the smallest teams give us the greatest games. The greatest storylines as well. The Cup kept up.

Like, Koura starts scoring that goal against Germany. They give us the moments that make you fall back in love with football, the romance of it all, yes. Yeah. The only thing I might disagree with, look, I don't know how I feel. feel about it yet because I'm you know, recency biases is is obviously in effect right now. A lot of people have been confused as to why Argentina had a quote unquote easy run.

A lot of people have confused as to like why England had a quote unquote easier run, France, etc. They're going like, ah, but how are these teams meeting? So a lot of people don't remember that FIFA changed the way they created their draw. for this World Cup, the seeding. They seeded them the way we seed in tennis, yes. Yeah. And so what they said was, we're going to change the formats. And so for this World Cup, for World Cup 2026, the top seeds cannot, the top four seeds cannot meet each other before the semifinal.

Now, they could get knocked out. Yes, yes. You know what I mean? They could get knocked out. Like Norway could have knocked out. Egypt could have knocked out. Egypt could have knocked out Argentina, etc. So it's not about making sure they get to the semifinal.

but their goal was that the top four seeds wouldn't meet before the semifinal. Now, on one hand, some people can argue what it's done is it's created a World Cup where the big teams bump into the small teams more frequently, which creates better games for small teams. Which is a dream for the small teams. Yeah, as you've seen, like the team from Cape Verde all said, this was our dream. We never imagine this. Yes.

On the other hand, people say it's ensured their path to the final because they don't have to eliminate each other. I think both arguments have merits, you know, because... I like how you are literally, like, the evil angel on infantinous one shoulder, and then you're the good angel on the other shoulder. You're like giving him props, but then you're so going to care. Yeah, but I mean, both things are true. No, I'll say this, because in tennis, and again, I know people struggle with the seeding system.

So in tennis, Arcarus and Sina were either meet in the final or they won't meet at all. That's how they make it. They go like, the top two seeds. don't get to meet till the final. Because it'll spoil the game? No, no, it's, they're trying to go like, if everything happens the way it's up, if it's in our dream scenario,

the final should be the top two. But then remember the top two have to meet the top three and top four. So they have to meet, they go meet in like slightly stronger opposition as they go on. And that's how it should be. And so for me, I understand people,

because people will go like, oh, but Spain, top their group, but then they end up facing, and FIFA is not rewarding you for just, last year's performance. It's rewarding you for over five years of performance. That's how they see. So Argentina has almost won every competition they have been in.

Two Cop Americas, the World Cup, they're the top seed in South America. They shouldn't be meeting France at any point. France has been playing so well in Europe for the past five years. They shouldn't be meeting Argentina. So you're being rewarded for the good work you've put in over a considerable number of years. And for me, I'm all for it.

But don't you think it robs... us as the fans maybe, and it robs the smaller teams of the opportunity to pull a Croatia in the semi-final, to pull a, who else, Morocco in the semifinal. No, it doesn't. You know what I mean? No, it doesn't. You don't think it does.

No, because for me, if the small teams overperform and one or two of the big teams underperform, then the top seats will meet somewhere. Does that make sense? They'll meet before. For me, they'll look at it because you're talking about the top floor, but remember England, Brazil, Portugal, those teams will meet at some point.

They're not the top four percent, but they're top heavyweights. I hear what you're saying. So Argentina, I don't even think they needed this because Argentina in 2018, remember, they missed up and they lost their game against Croatia. Yeah, yeah. And what was their reward? Instead of taking the easier path that Croatia ended up taking, they ended up meeting France in the next round. Yeah. And Nimbabwe knocked them out.

So for me, it works. For me, I like the seeding. It works in basketball. The top seed in basketball in the playoffs meets number eight. The Golden State Warriors are not going to meet the Lakers. Well, yeah, I guess it also sets up, the idea behind it is, and I think we forget this sometimes, the idea is also that we don't end up with a lopsided end of a tournament. Yes, thank you, yes.

Where Curasaw is playing Cape Ver. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't, not even Curisal Cape Verde would actually be a great game. Yes. I think you actually, what they don't want is it to be Curacao versus Germany somehow or Curacao versus France. Versus yes. You know, where everyone comes in going like, oh, this is yes. Yeah, you know, where that final game doesn't see, like people.

go, you know, we always say this even in football would be like, that was the real final. Yes, yes, the final before the final. It was the final before the final. You don't want that in the round of 16. The big teams in the Champions League will meet in the quarters or the semis. Yes. And then on the other side, there's like a random team that's coming in from, you know.

Bodoglim. Yeah, exactly. Good for them. But I would argue on a business side and as a spectacle, yeah. People are less inclined to watch because everyone expects one team to win. And if they don't, people are just like, ah, what happened? People hate to admit it. Not sports fans, because we are very, we tend to be very realistic.

People want George Foreman, Muhammad Ali. Yeah, that's what they're trying to make. They want heavyweights just throwing haymakers at each other. Yeah. They don't want, like, George Foreman versus Joe Opieo. And then Joe Pio is knocked out in the first. What a fight. How long do you think you could last?

I think I would last five seconds by running around the ring, running as fast as possible. And then I would last a bit longer if I just ran out of the ring and then out of the stadium and then just caught him on my way home. back home to Uganda. Let's talk about some of the big games that we saw leading up to this. England, Norway. You know, can I tell you why I feel bad for you?

You predicted Norway would win. To one. Yeah. Yes. And I sometimes think predictions can be undone by random acts of God. Yes, you're right. Do you know what I mean? I was on a good run as well, by the way.

You were on a great run. Just predicting score lines. No, Japan, 2-1. You're on a good run. Just going on Brazil, Norway, 2-1. Yeah, England, Norway. Morocco, France, too, need. I was on a good run and the cable happened.

Yeah. Well, okay, no, but let's talk about this. Okay, so let's break the game down. There are a few storylines from the England-Noe game that I think have still got people talking. One is the cable. Yes. The, you know, the, the mysterious cable that did or did not happen. You called it the cable of God.

called it the cable of God, that's what it is. You know? We've got the Harlan Soloth incident. I think those are like the big ones in the game. Yes. Right? And then...

My first instinct, I'll say. I don't think the penalty call was like a... No, no, no. That was... If you think of any other... There weren't any issues, right? I think the only other thing we could talk about was Noiland, who was incredible

in their game against Brazil, actually not pushing that ball away and gifting a bidding, a... An easy winning goal. Oh, yeah, but that's... That's a tactical thing. So, okay, let's start, let's, let's do it in sequence then. Let's start by first talking about the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the sort of incident,

because that's the, you see, this is, so this is the thing that I, that I, that I, I, I wish more fans would be honest about, right? More fans would be honest about. When it's Egypt, Argentina, right? It's easier to blame the refs for the results. And in my opinion, the refs made many decisions that I think, could have gone another way on another day against Argentina. No, just like yellow cards and like harsher penalty. No, no, no, no.

That's my opinion. As I'm saying, you can disagree. I can't think of a single decision that they're raised on the drone. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. That's, okay, we want to really to get that. We don't have to litigate it. Okay, but you're saying it's easier for fans.

But I'm saying it's easier for fans to focus on those things than it is for them to focus on the moment where they failed to take a game. Okay? So for me, Egypt, Argentina, it's the moment when Egypt gets the ball, the scores 2-2. I think it's the 90th minute. In added time, Egypt goes on a break. I think it was two. The ball gets passed to Sala and very quickly it becomes three versus two or even four versus two.

And then Mammush out of nowhere comes running from behind Sala and takes the ball off of his feet. And Sala, by the way, had led two incredible breakaways. Yes. Which had ended in goals. One of them. Sallers also, the guys got the record for goals and assists in one season in the Premier League. You've seen what he can do assist-wise already in this game. He takes the ball off of Sala's feet.

Also compresses the field. And what I mean by that is, you know, you know this when you're playing football. When you're on a counter-attack, the best thing you can do is spread out your players. Space out. Because now the team. The opponent, yes. Yeah, the team with inferior players have to think about who they're going to cover.

Now what's happening is the attack is compressed because Mamush is literally on Sala, so one defender can mark both men. He takes the ball, I think it was Paredes who was running back on Argentina. Incredible block by Paredes as well. I don't think it's an incredible block. No, no. Mamu

made it easy for here. I don't think it's an incredible block. I think it's a bad pass and I think it's a pass from a player who doesn't pass regularly. And I go, why would you take the ball from Sala? He could have curved his run. He could have made have created another outlet and I'm telling you Salah would have found him. So for me, I focus on that moment. I go, that's for me.

That's what, you know why? Because fans often go backwards in time as if calls are cumulative, but they're not. How do you compare that? How do you compare that with Soloth? No, so listen, do you get on saying? Yeah, I get the Mamosh one. No, no, but what I'm saying fans will do in football, oftentimes they'll go. if we were awarded that penalty

then the score would have been 4-0 then I'm like no that but that's not how games work so Egypt was up 1-0 right they go 2-0 up the goal gets taken away then they still come back immediately and score now it's 2-0 now some would go then it would be 3-0 that's not how games actually work

right it's like it's a linear timeline it's a butterfly effect one thing to completely change exactly so it's a linear thing right so now when we come to the England Norway game I know a lot of fans would love to look at the cable incident as the incident that robs Norway of their opportunity to go through to the semifinals. But for me, the moment where Norway loses their game is the moment where Soloth is on a break. Two v1. With Erlinghalla, 2v1. And like, and we've got to be

clear about what kind of 2V1. There's a 2v1 where you have like men right behind you, someone on your shoulder, touching you, pushing you and no. Then there's a 2v1 where you are unenquainted Cumbered, completely free to look up, to play the game to make decisions. The defender is backpedaling, furiously. Backpedaling, yeah. John Stones, who's not the fastest defender. And Soloth, not only like stumbles and doesn't look up and doesn't pass to Harlan, he also just doesn't make a decision himself.

Like, it's one of the strangest moments I've ever seen. Took a tooky, too sweet time as well. And everyone has a different opinion. Some people go, it's because he's jealous of Harlan. You know, they've played clips of. of him saying I've got more experience than him whatever. People are saying like oh that's why you shouldn't have a striker up

because a striker doesn't look up because they think they are the person who has to finish it. Some people are saying... Man syndrome, yes. Yeah, people have all... Look, the bottom line is for me when that happened in the same way... You called it out. I remember, yes. Yeah, in the same way when Bruno Grimeraich doesn't score his goal.

And Hendrik misses the one on one. And the same when Endrick misses. I blame those moments for the losing. I'll say the funny thing about that moment is we watch it and you because Soloth got murdered online obviously and he got murdered in the press but the thing is you immediately went like this is why you don't

you went like he has no vision he didn't even know that the pass was on because the past is rarely on for me I'll be honest with you he's not at the receiving end of the past I don't get the coach's decision I don't understand why he's playing Soloth there and not Oscar Bob

The worst thing is it went from potentially two nil Yeah, that's my point though. Going into halftime to 1-1. That's my point. And that completely changes the tactical talk as a coach that you're going to give to your players. It also changes the tactics of the team. Yes.

Right? If we're up 1-0, we're in a skittish back and forth. It's a skirmish, but like it's not comfortable because at any moment you can get back and you're in the game. When we're 2-0 up, we can sit back differently, we can counter-attack differently. And you have more pressure on you as the opposing team because you need to look for God. You need to look for two goals, not one goal. You know what I mean? So that pressure creates something.

And then the goal comes from a moment that I'm like, it's funny. So you must see, I have so many English friends who have completely blown up my phone hating me. Oh, really? Yeah. What a bad take, Trevor. There was no ball that hit a cable. See, that's why I can talk. That's why I can talk trash about England.

I have no English friends. So I know. You are very vocal though about it. You are very vocal. I'm very interested in why. Because you pointed it out even during the broadcast after the live stream. I'm interested to hear what you really think should and could have happened. Because the Norwegian players went and told the rave.

So what do you think could have... Because he didn't stop the game. And the goal went in. So what do you think would have happened? Because normally you stop the game when the ball hits an external object. Yeah. And it's happened before, by the way. It's not the first time a bull has hit the sky cam or the...

the cables. Okay. So it's happened before. You just stopped the game. Okay. So no, but they didn't stop it. And the Norwegian, rather the coach and shoulder up ran up to him. Do you think they still recourse for him to cancel the goal?

No, but is it too late now. Okay, but this is what I don't understand. All right. So there's a few things. FIFA comes out and says the sensor in the ball was not triggered. Yes, yes. Okay. Now I'm going like, guys, okay.

That sensor has been having a moment. Yo, man. Here's the most important thing for me. why are we bringing a new technology to a World Cup? If you look at every other technology, right, if you look at every other technology in football, when we're trialing a new rule or a new technology, they trial that for four years, in other leagues,

smaller competitions, smaller competitions. The under 20s, women's, yes, you're right. Exactly. They go, let's take this to the low stakes, low-level tournaments before we get to the highest levels of the men's and women's games. Before that, let's try it in. in like under 16s, under 20s, they try new offside rules.

They try new like VAR. They tested VAR for a long time in different leagues, in different ways, in different subsections of a league, by the way. They'd say like, okay, for this competition, we're going to be using VAR, but we won't expand it fully. In different formats as well, fulls. Exactly, exactly. So my thing is, why, oh, why,

are we bringing a new chip that I don't know of being used in any major league why are we bringing that to a World Cup where the stakes are so high and there are so few games for you to remedy the situation that's my first issue I guess my question then would be again you've said

a ball I see the sky come before right but it was still unprecedented at this level the ball hitting a skycum like you know when the Croatian player I think it happened in the Premier League yes but I'm saying at this level so when you talk about let's say

the hair follicle you know the Croatian player did the ball touch his hair or not that you can understand right right it's not unprecedented so when the ball went up i think what happened and again i might be wrong when the when nolan kicks that ball high yeah i think the ref naturally didn't track the ball all the way yeah his eyes were focused on the players jostling for because the ball is that makes sense yes yes yes so he didn't see because the refs the refs is the risk job is not to look at the ball yes no the rest job is to watch the players well even when they're taking corner kicks yes refs are not watching the flight of the ball no no they're watching the players.

So I see why he missed it? But then as you're asking, why didn't, they are supposed to come in for clear and obvious errors when they come in. And if they come in, how come, yes. They relied apparently on the, what do they call it, sneco? Yes, Nico, yes. Okay, sniko in the ball. Now, some people are saying there's a possibility that because the pitch has the four

antennas around it for the ball, there's a possibility, just like microphones like we're using now, or, you know, when you're on a TV show, You have a mic pack. Yes. There are antennas situated around every single sound stage. And those antennas are responsible for picking up. So here it's a wired mic, so it's not the same. But there's an antenna.

And if that mic mic mic pack sometimes goes above. Oh, yes, yes. That's the thing that people forget above. Because when you're in line with the thing, you find your frequencies are fine. But sometimes when you go above, that's the issue. I don't know that they've tested that technology. way up in the air because it's unprecedented

because the antenna are down on the ground because everything happens on the ground mostly unless you're playing England because the ball is always in the air they did it

that's funny because they did this for VAR I mean for offside and offside is generally about a ball kicked on the ground and where a person is in relation to the kicking okay quick question

do you think if FIFA had come out and gone like guys our bad mistake instead of trying to gaslight the football loving public do you think that would have been better yes I think it would be better instead of going like oh there was no

I think it would be better. So I think this for every... Yeah, but as we said, corrupt evil villains never come out and say my back. No, no, no, I think this for everything in life. I think what's that old saying? The cover up is always worse than the crime. Worse than the crime, yes.

Right? I think it's the same thing that happened with governments around COVID. If it, if governments were more honest... Oh, we're taking this thing out of football. No, but I think that's why I love football. It's a reflection of life, yes. The reason I love football is the ultimate, you know... A reflection of life.

Yes, it's a reflection of life. It's like how we live it, how we explain. I can learn all my lessons on a football pitch for life. And so for me, it's the same thing that happened during COVID. It's the same thing that happens during major disasters, during an economic crisis, whatever. The government thinks that they are protecting a system by obscuring or lying to the people about what's actually happening or withholding, right? But then what happens is the people then go, there's something I notice here. There's something strange.

My eyes, yes. My eyes are not matching up with the reality. the government says to you, no, don't worry about that. Don't worry about that. And that thing builds up steam, builds up steam, builds up. And then what happens? Conspirators is drive, yeah. Yeah, but at some point, some subsect of conspiracies are shown to be true.

Yes. And then what happens? You've now created. Yes. You've lost all credibility. For me, it's better if FIFA just says, hey, y'all, the sensor didn't go off. But upon further review, we've seen, it does look like the ball touched. The referee didn't see it.

And in every game, if a referee doesn't see it, if no one catches it, sorry, guys, we play on. But as the thing, because there's many matches where we can go, Joe, we can go back and literally rewatch every micro moment of it. Messi, for instance, who were they playing recently? Messi. You're playing which one? Cape Vard, Egypt, Switzerland? Egypt, I think it was. No, Switzerland.

Messi gets a foul by the box. No one touched him. like or rather it wasn't he didn't get foul no no no I think it was was it converted the player won the ball yes the player won the ball yeah but Messi gets the foul by the box

the player won the ball yes no we could go back and go that wasn't a foul but but that's not the point of sport is not to be 100% accurate it is to be fair yes yes yes you get I'm saying even even when it comes to like marking who was holding

whose shirt was being tugged was Elliot to have been yeah did Elliot to dive was hard and it's push enough I'll say this. I agree with you in a sense that it was very Aweilian. Like when you talk about 1984, don't believe your lying eyes. It was very ovarian in that way.

Because everyone was like, oh, but we can see the ball. Unless you're English. Because the English became blind. Many English fans became like partially blind when it came to that. Which I would argue is your job. Yes. Yes. As a fan, when they refer to make a decision that's on your side. I mean, that was the right decision. It's amazing.

When they referred, yeah. So I get where the English are coming from. The last thing you want to be as a fan is Ronaldo putting up their hand with their own teammates off-sides. No, no, no, no, you never want to be. All right, let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor for today's episode. That's Verizon. Now, we all know the FIFA World Cup is one of the biggest events on the planet, right? Everybody wants in, which means scoring tickets is hard, like really, really hard.

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Must provide a very recent postpaid consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal. Additional terms, conditions and restrictions apply. No one gets you closer to the FIFA World Cup 2026 than Verizon. I'll say for me they think the biggest talking point from that game. And again, it's for me, it's Jude Bearing, man. Yeah, man, Jude. It's, It's, hey, June. I love big players who show up in big, high-pression moments. I love, I'm such a huge love over the game. And when I see, so I'll say this, for me, when I look at the World Cup,

great players always impose their personality on a World Cup. Great players always bend the World Cup to their wheel. The greatest players, actually, don't just grace the World Cup, they don't just turn up. They decorate the greatest tournament of the world. Yes, it's done 98. Ronaldo 2002 or 9. You can go back to 1934,

1930s when, let's say, fascist Italy, hosted the World Cup in 1934. Obviously, Benton Mussolini tried to hijack the World Cup. No one remembers Benton Mussolini. Everyone remembers Giuseppe Miazza. Because he helped Italy win. That's why Essie Milan and Inter Milan named their stadium after him.

No, I didn't know that. Yeah, Giuseppe Miazza. When you go back to 1954, Ferenck Pushkas and the, that dazzling Hungarian team, that's why the Pushkas award for the best goal every football season is named after Fereng Poshka's. 1958, 17-year-old Peli scores two goals in a final and the legend is born. Every World Cup, 62 Chile horse, Perel gets injured.

He's the hope for Brazil. Guess who steps up? Garincha steps up. Every World Cup, a great player. Every World Cup must be defined by a great player. And I don't want to hear any excuses. Because I don't care. The football world doesn't care.

We don't want to hear, oh, I got double marked and triple marked, all the opal maintenance were kicking the crap out of me. No, great players always find a way to exploit their God-given gifts to actually define the greatest tournament in the world. And if you look at what Jude has been doing, dragged England, past Mexico, single-handedly, he has. Played high altitude.

A few days later, played against Norway, didn't show anything about altitude sickness. No. Again, imposed his will. In Uganda, we call it, we call it, you know, taking your balls out and slapping them on the table when the pressure is on. Damn. Yes. What's happening in Ugandan boardrooms?

That's what great players. What is happening in Ugandan boardrooms that this has become a saying? The senior turns up and goes, that's what great players do, Trevor. And for me, that's the one thing. I'd love to be the person taking minutes at that meeting. And then he took out his boss. Ball slap occurred once again. No, think 19, 1986.

Diego Amanda Maradona. Yeah, no, you're right. The best said the better. For me, that's what I want. Look at Leonel Mese in the World Cup. Look at Leon Mesee the World Cup before. Look at R9 and Zedinidad in 1998. Yeah.

I want, because, you know, always remember the player. Robert Ruggio, 1994. You remember Roberto baggie. You remember Romario. I want players showing up. And that's one thing you said you've loved about this World Cup. At least all the greats seem to be showing up. And so for me, the white look like, actually,

You love taking things out of football. Let's take it out of football. Think of cinema. You're not going to be considered a great on the big screen unless you have at least one career performance. Daniel Dele will show me something. Leo DiCaprio, show me something.

Robert De Niro, Mary Strip, Al Pacino, show me some. There should be a performance of yours that defines your legacy. And funny enough to keep it in cinema, in many ways, that's how we define the greats, is that, regardless of what movie they're in

to your point they bend it to their will you know what I mean they take a role or a moment however small however small and they go wow yes

you know like you're watching it and you're like man when they come on screen yes you know that's what I want and so for me that's why

and I keep saying this and we disagree on this you think Carracken is a great striker I think he's an okay striker I think he's a good striker I think it's okayish and I'm not talking about club.

So I've been actually I've been thinking about this. I've been thinking about this. No, no, no, here's a way. It's incredible in club football. I've thought of a way for us to bridge this cap. Maybe, maybe there's a, there's an extra definition we need to think about in football.

Maybe sometimes we need to define a player's greatness for their position. And then sometimes we need to define a player's greatness for their ability to be a, clutch player. More than just a clutch player, but rather like an architect. somebody who can design and create something,

somebody who can make things happen. They're the catalyst. Is a good way to put it, right? Yes. Because I can think of many players, you know, like Jude Bellingham, is he the best midfielder? No, not even close.

I don't think he is. Pedri, Vistina, Yawaneves. Many people will come with many names, but in this World Cup, there's no Pedri, there's no Vitino, there's no, Jean-Evez. He has taken his balls.

and slapped them. Yeah, but my point is... But I would even argue he has not done that as a great midfielder. No, no, no. He has done it in his role. I don't think of him as good at me as good at. No, but what I'm saying is he's done it as a player.

Yes. Because if you look at where Jude Bellingham's been on the pitch, if you look at how he's gotten his goals, if you... All of those moments are agnostic to the position he plays. But that's what I'm saying about... No, no, no, that's what I'm agreeing with you.

I'm saying you don't have to do it. When I said defining a World Cup, I'm saying you do it as a play. So, 1982. No, but listen. Dinozof is a goalkeeper. Yeah. He's a goalkeeper who defined the 1982 World Cup alongside Zico and Paoro Rossi.

You don't have to, we're saying you have to stand up as a player. No, but this is what I'm saying. So now do you understand? Come back to what I'm saying. I don't think it takes anything away from Harry Kane's greatness as a striker. Okay. Right? But then when we talk, like I try and do this with my friends all the time.

I do it with Slebsar when we change. is sometimes we try and change our paradigms for how we think of the game just so that we open up the possibility for more than just one category. You know, greatest. Who's the best of the... It's like, no, no, no, no.

Sometimes you can say, who is the best defender? And what we mean by that is, who is the best player at defending a ball when the opponents are attacking and they... Okay, that's the best defender. But then you could go,

when you are down 1-0 and it is the 90th minutes and you need to get a goal, would you rather have Sergio Ramos or would you rather have Virgil Van Dyke? Now, I, in my world, there is no world where Sergio Ramos is a better defender than Virgil Van Dyke. For me, football fans can disagree. We always do. But if you're asking me for a moment for like for like that thing, someone who's going to grab the game. And Virgil has had his moments. Don't get me wrong.

But I'm talking like the extremes. Who's going to show up. I'm talking the extremes. That player, you're like, where did Sergio Ramos come from? Where did he do? How did he do this? How many times has he done this? For me, that's what I'm talking about.

And that to me does not diminish another player's positional excellence in any way. Okay, let me counterpoint. Counterpoint. And I hear where you're coming from. For me, Hurricane has disappeared way too many times in big moments. That's why I have him on fraud watch. He has disappeared. I've given him.

him, I've given him leeway so many times and he keeps disappointing. Coach Joe, I've given him so much leeway. He's the thing. Hurricane and his fans will say, oh, but he won the golden boot in 2018. Yes, but why did he win the golden boot? He scored the heart track against Panama, scored I think another two goals against Tunisia

and then he scored the one goal he had scored I think in the knockout stages against Colombia. He's the thing. He's where I struggle with Hurricane and people make so many excuses for him. Remember when I said great players. I don't want to hear your excuses. Okay, so you want to hear your excuses. Okay. So you...

Listen. Okay, I'm with you. Romario. Yeah. He didn't go like, oh, no one is serving me. Oh, my, no. Romario took the World Cup by the Scuff of the neck. Godmuller took the World Cup by the Scuff of the neck.

Paolo Rossi took the World Cup by the Scruff of the Knack. R.9, El Fenomeno, the original, took the World Cup by the Scruff. Miroslav Krosa. He didn't even have the most spectacular club career. Why do we think of him as one of the greats? He took the World Cup by the Scruff of the neck. They didn't make excuses.

These are pure nines. Now, Hurricane fans will go like, oh, Oh, but you see he opens up space hogwash. I'm not interested. Great Nines don't open up space. They are not Walmart Street, Walmart greeters. Then they will say, oh, you know, Hurricane defends extra hogwash. My striker shouldn't be defending.

I judge my striker purely is he putting the ball in the net. And so for me, when I look at Hurricane, this is why I struggle. And I know English fans will go like you're being hush on him. Club football, he delivers. Week in, week out, Hurricane delivers for his club. I'm talking just international football. Football. Hurricane, we were there in Russia.

His first World Cup. Yeah, yeah. 2018. Hurricane scored six goals in the groups, one in the knockouts. Their biggest game against Croatia. What did he do? He went missing. Who scored the goal?

Kieran Tripia. He went missing. Croatia came back in that game. I went like, okay, his first World Cup, I'll give him grace. Euro, the next Euros, 2020, 2020. Where was Hurricane in the final? Look sure. Score as a goal against Italy.

Third minute. Hurricane show us something. Hurricane disappears. Italy comes back wins. Next World Cup, 2022. Hurricane plays where in the group stages. He meets France. Disappears the whole game.

Gets a penalty towards the end. He scores it. Gets another penalty to send the game to equalize. What does he do? High pressure moment. He skies it. I go like, okay, now this guy is on real fraud watch. Euro 2020.

That's when I broke. That's when I gave up on Hurricane. Because they play against Spain. Hurricane disappears the whole game. Kau Powell must score as the equalizer. On 68 minutes, what does the English tactical setup do? What does the coach do?

Hooks Hurricane, subs him out when they need a goal. That's when I went like this guy only appears. When the lights are brightest, he disappears. So a question I have for you. So from this World Cup, have you put, is Laminia Mall on fraud watch? Laminia Mar won.

He's still young. No, no, I'm just asking. I'm just asking. No, no, you don't have to give me just yes or no. Okay, so, no, just yes or no. Okay, then that's fine. No, no, no, I'll tell you why. No, I'll tell you why.

I'm saying you need to create moments of danger. Joe, for me, Joe, it's fine. I'm not saying yes or no. I just wanted to know. So, let me just finish this. So for me, this is the way you look at hurricane. Because I want to understand. Hurricane is a great club player.

I look at Hurricane the way, Trevor, I look at Hurricane. No one defends someone. No, no, no, we're going to run out of time. I'm moving on. Let me just finish this. I'm moving on. Let's talk about Thomas Tuchel and the team. Let's move on.

Let's move on. Yes. I think he's a great knockout. Do you think, you know... No, I should ask you. I think, actually, I should ask you about him first. Why? Because him and Beringham came out with very defaring accounts of the game against Norway.

Took a thought they got lucky. Took a thought they didn't play well. And Beringham went like, clearly he doesn't know what it means to play at this level. So... So what do you think about that? Okay, so here's what I'll say. I think that... that the English media.

Okay. And the media in particular sometimes will portray themselves as being on the side of the people or its people at any given time. And oftentimes we forget that a lot of the media

is on its own side. Okay. And the side it's on is the side of clicks and views. It's not the voice of the people. Okay, yes. Okay. Okay.

So Thomas Tuchel, what he was coming out and saying... I love that keep calling him Tuchel. Yeah. He's Tucko. Yeah, yeah, I know, but I'm saying it in English. No, say it in German. Why do you want me to stay in German?

You're the famous Black Hitler. No, why are we going to, people who have no context for that are going to be like, what the hell are you talking about? No, yeah, okay. If you go, if you look at Thomas Tuchel, right, he's got, he's got his views on the game. If you listen to what he's saying when he's asked about England, he's saying, listen, man, I don't like what we did on. the field. And is right, yes. I think we were sloppy.

I think our pace wasn't good. And I think we were lucky. I don't want to keep being lucky. I want to win games definitively because I also understand the team that I have. Right? If I look at the individuals on the field, we should be performing better than this. Okay? And then a commentator says to him, oh, do you think it's a mentality issue?

He says, no. He says, all we have right now is. mentality. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Which is him praising the team. He's saying, he's going to, he's praising Jude Bellingham, he's praise, he's basically going, we're taking games and making, you know, something out of shit, essentially. But you can't continue to thrive on mentality.

Right? Mentality is something you use, you know, like Argentina, a lot of it has been mentality. It has really been mentality. But, man, a lot of it has been brilliant. And like, there's many parts of a game where we're watching them going, oh, they've got this, they've got this. Then the mentality is when they're. down or when they're even in its extra time and then you go they can still do it that's mentality

you need your mentality to help you when your tactics where when your tactics let you down i think that's what he's saying the journalist then goes to jude bellingham yes and they phrase it as if tuchel's only opinion of the team and the game was disappointment and criticism jude is fresh out of like his exhaustion adrenaline still pumping gas he goes you see him shot also remember this is something that people forget and this is a key thing how long has tuchel been the the coach no no it's been a short time it's been a what a year to a month yeah tomas tuckel doesn't have like a history with these guys he doesn't have he doesn't have a legacy that he's built he doesn't have like a deep understanding he does you know what i mean i think people shouldn't take that

for granted people shouldn't take for granted what it means when people trust the coach and know the coach but then because because i'll tell you this after a game if alex ferguson's said something like that about one of his man united teams if Pep Guardiola said something like that about it not not even if I'll let's go back with when Alex Ferguson criticized his team after winning a game

but not winning it the way they wanted when Pep Guadiola criticized his team when Juergen Klopp criticized his team when those coaches did it when Morino criticized his team when they did that the players when benefit of doubt the players knew what the coach was saying so they

would say, yes, I hear, I'm also, I can see why the coach, because Harry Kane came and said that and maybe he has a different relationship with the, with the German coach. But no one understands the word hurricane is saying. But Harry Kane came on and he said, he said, yeah, I agree with the coach. I don't think we played well. I don't. And maybe like, maybe like maybe maybe maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, was conflating from that question, he was conflating putting your heart out there. Yes, but you're always very good at timing and context.

You're always going like, is it the right time to say something? Is it your place? Don't you think maybe it's behoved or maybe it should, being the manager, he should have known better than to say that at that time. Say it back in the dressing room instead of saying. Yeah, no, no, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. But then I think there's also like, there's also going to be a debate.

people say there's some coaches where people complain because it feels like they don't know what's going on and then the fans you're right you're right and then the fans Alvaraberoa the whole time you was at Marbury they kept going like you keep blaming yourself you never call the team you're right you see so now when a coach blames themselves fans go why don't they blame the players and then when a coach walks away from a game going like yeah all that matters is the results the team go the fans go we don't want results we want a game and so I think I think that's the thing so you know it'll be interesting to see how they perform.

I think, I think, Argentina is winning that game 3-0. Easily. That's your prediction. That's my prediction. Yes. Three-nil. Yes, I'm pulling,

I'm taking out my balls, slapping them on this table. Three-Nil. I think Argentina, I think Argentina, people have been analyzing Argentina. You know who's perfect for you? You know, you want to talk about

a World Cup of controversies. Did you see the story that's just come out about the Senegal team? Oh, yes, yes. Where they said, apparently the team doctor, who's meant to be like sports science and all of that, apparently trained as a gynaecologist,

My favorite part of the story, my favorite part of the story was it said, the team found this out too late. Oh, too, too, too. Yeah, but I went like, the way it was phrased, it made it seem like one of the players came and said, I have a hamstring issue. And the doctor said, drop your pants. He has only one solution, yes. Drop your pants. Let's see what's happening. Drop your pants. Let's say hamstring, yes.

But this is what I, you remember what we were talking about, African football. Why does Morocco do well? Why is this doing? that's my thing. That's a small thing. No, to go back to Argentina, the reason I think they're going to win that game is I think one, you talked about it,

they're a team that has character, the team that is built to suffer. The team, when the chips are down, they don't fold. And we've seen it in this World Cup, we saw it in 2022. Yeah. There were, what, 45 minutes away

from getting knocked out by Mexico? No, you've called it. Look, look, every episode of the podcast is you going, this team is forged in fire and that's what they made for. And they have, it's a Spanish phrase. They have a thing we call, Malaleche is when

the English translation is that milk bad milk yes they have a competitive fire that few other teams have and I think they've been a bit unlucky in their knockout games they have played they've created enough chances

to win by five goals but Vosignia Chaubea of Egypt Gregor Kobo of Switzerland They've met some great goalkeepers They've been playing out of their lives No they've made some great goalkeepers

You're not wrong I don't think Pickford is going to do that And that's why I'm going Pickwood's had some great performances With these tiny T-Rex arms No it doesn't matter I think Three nil, yeah.

Three nil. Let's leave it there, then. Let's leave it there. Let's leave it there. I want to leave it right there with your balls on the table. Yes. I also want to call Spain, because we're doing this before Spain. Before Spain, France.

Call it. Yes, everyone thinks that, oh, France is going to win. I think Spain is going to win it to one. Because Spain is a team built to actually beat France. Because France normally beats teams because France is ball dominant. Yeah. And for the first time, they're going to be forced to defend. Yeah, this is coming out.

Okay, we'll see if the production are. Mbapé, Dembele, Duwe, and Olise. are going to be forced to do something they hate doing. They're going to be forced to do something that all attacking players hate doing, which is chase the ball.

And you know when in boxing we have the phrase, styles make fights? Because normally you can be the greatest fight. You think this is a style clash. Yes. Floyd Mayweather

always beat everyone till he met what's his name? Marcus Mena. The Argentine. Marcus Mainado. Yeah, Marcus Meidana.

He always struggled against him. Manipakiao would beat everyone until he met one Manuel Marquez. So every time you, there's always that one team that's almost built to frustrate. And Spain is that team. And Spain is that team when it comes to France.

And I think they're going to struggle, yes. All right, let's see. So, yeah, so for me, Trevor, maybe, maybe if I go, I just want to say one thing. I would like great players standing up. And again, it feels like I'm emphasizing it. But I hate what we call in cricket,

flat track bullies. I don't like players who put up big score lines against small teams. Who put up big scores against Afghanistan. Man, we have a game to watch. I want him to show up tomorrow. I'm going to go watch the game. I'm going to go watch the game. Yes.

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