What Now? with Trevor Noah - Zohran Mamdani: New York's New Mayor Pops In

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

SURPRISE!!  Zohran Mamdani stops by to break down how he actually plans to fix New York City, from housing to transit to the cost of just existing. Somewhere along the way, our friend Dave fully becomes the unhinged NYC resident everyone knows…enjoy! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This is What Now with Trevor Noah This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market Eat Well for Less Go bless How you doing, man? I've got to see you. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you very much. What did he win? Very much, huh?

He won an all-expenses-paid trip to the Upper East Side. All-expenses paid. trip to the Upper East Side. Call a number. What number mayor are you, by the way? To sing, it's 112. No ways. Pitches and cream. What? They should sing at your inauguration. You know what's stuck in my head?

Kanda. Kanda. Kanda. Kanda. Kanda. Yes. Kanda. That was a vibe, man. That was me. We made Sound City top 10. That was me. Songs of the week. You don't even understand. Top 10.

Who's that other guy? Hab. You aged Hub, yeah. I grew up with him. Where is he? He's in Kampala. Has he reached out to you? Yeah, no, I'm in touch with him.

He's a close friend. When you won, did H-U-D say, you did it. We were like, is it H-A-B or is it hub? H-A-B. It is H-A-B, right? So, H-A-B. Hub, sorry. I thought you were asking me to spell.

No, I didn't know if it's, we were like, because it was all in caps. Then we were like, is it hub or is it H-B? Did Hub text you and go How did you convince them? Because I'm sure Hub remembers rolling with you trying to go to radio station in Kampala

trying to get your song played and then he was like you couldn't convince one station manager in Kampala How did you do this? The whole of New York, how? You know the reason his name is Hab?

Tell me. If we're off the record or? Nothing is off the record. Don't say anything when the red light is honestly. Nothing is.

Let me tell you the First thing, can I tell you, I'll give you a tip that I learned like very early on with the daily show and everything. Nothing is off the record. And you're never going to know. No, no. When you walk out the room, let me explain, let me explain. When you walk out, this is always fascinated me in America is when I'll see people, like some

footage will come out from 20 years ago or something and it'll be something that was sort of behind the scenes. Sorry, sorry. No, not kind of man. The, the, the, the ninjas who are dancing. There was the other video, though. What would I know? Yes.

Yes, that was that one. You know, my regret is that my dad dressed up as a ninja. You're lying. For that video. Nah! And the director of the video taped over that part. No! No!

Man, nah. That mill ninja stole the show, though. Yeah, there was one, there was one ninja in one of the... Too much swag for a ninja. I was like, this one, this ninja's black. This is a fleck ninja. Oh, man. Yeah, tell me about this thing.

America because I'm trying to know as much as I can. Yeah. So what I was saying is like I was always intrigued by how people would trust just like a handshake agreement everywhere. People were like, oh, this is off the record. But there's a camera rolling and the sound recording. And we're like, this is off the record. And then 10 years later or five years later, even a day later, the clip comes out. And then people are like, but, but that was behind the seat. You're like, yes, there's a camera. When you're wearing a microphone, when there's a microphone, when there's a camera, it's somewhere. Because the editor was like, I'm not part of your agreement.

It's somewhere. Remember, grab them by the pussy. I wasn't there, but. Why are you saying do I remember? Zoran, please. I'm leaving this between you guys. The way he said, do you remember? You're right, actually.

I shouldn't have done it. It made it seem like... I accept you, apology. Yeah, I apologize. Yeah. But my point is, that was all off camera. Hmm. You know who also owes...

That was all off camera. Who? The editor that edited Zoran's dead out of the... I still can't believe he recorded... But that's how you... Yes. Oh, by the way, this is a special, like, this is, I was like, how do we make this time special with you? And I thought to myself, you've got Zoran Mamdani on the podcast.

But I was like, you know how many tie-ins we have in our lives, right? So, born in Africa, born in Africa, then Ugandan, right, born in Uganda, then I was like, do you know how many Ugandans I have in my life? In my head, I thought to myself, I was like, I collect Ugandans. And I was like, but you can't say that. Don't say it like that. No. No, no, but I'm saying I wasn't going to say it. This is off the record.

Just taking us through the... This is off the record. I'm letting you know what was in my head. This is off the record. So you can't use it against me. So then I was like, I collect Ugandan's and I was like, but you can't say it like that. So you got to be like, I mean, I have a lot of you, I don't know how this happened.

I have a lot of Ugandan friends in my life, like a lot of Ugandan friends. You say it like it's a problem. No, no, no. You made it sound like a problem, sorry. Don't put that on me. Don't put that on me. When someone puts you in a scene. apology. I'll take my apology now.

Which camera? Not to me. This is not about the deposition. This is straight to me. Straight to me. I'll take my apologies, Ron. I apologize. Thank you. Thank you very much. So then I was like, I'm just going to bring them all in. So I was like my best friend who's Indian, my other best friend who's Ugandan and South

African, they've even got microphones. They can just throw things in. Where in Uganda by the way? Kampala. This was born. Where were you born in Kampala? Marguerre Okay In Sanbia Hospital Oh wow

Yeah Why I moved to South Africa Like you I can hear yeah Yeah And New York Like you You guys hated that place

Which place South Africa or Uganda Two places before You were like Ah ah It actually is a crazy story Think about it Yeah

You guys both came from Uganda I mean You're not helpful to me Because my parents Are like I mean look at Mad Sorens I'm sorry

He's raised the ceiling for what's possible They thought you had achieved And now they're like, wait, you could have done this This is what you could have done How many people are shocked Eugene and I were talking about that the whole day Like there's got to be a section of people in your life

who are still shocked at the idea of you being the mayor of arguably the most important cities in the world H-A-B Oh, H-A-B? Yeah, hub, not hub. Oh, different hub. Hab, think of hab.

No, but there must be like, genuine, just on like a personal level. There must be a ton of people out there who go, they just know you as Zoran. Yeah. And then now you are Zoran, Mamdani, the next mayor of New York City. Yeah. I mean, it's true not just in Kampala, but also here in New York City. I mean, there are people I would play in a rec soccer team with. and I was just reading this article today about

about a lot of their reactions and reflections do you still play with them I haven't in a while why not I saw you still have the skills by the way I was very impressed highly edited no no no no you can't edit those skills no no no you're lying no you can't no you can't edit those skills you like you play what position did you play I have the classic journey of someone who played up top and then lost all of their speed and now plays a left back that's that's right I started my

journey at Liftback. You know when people say, you know when people say I fell off to your position. Yeah, I used to be good and then now I play where you play all the time. That's me, Trevor. That's me.

I genuinely love that for you, man. I just like, how much has your life changed now? Like, is it, and I don't know if this is just anecdotal, but we were chatting with Ryan about this. We were going, it feels like your social media has gotten a little more serious now, which makes sense, but I don't know if that's just how it looks online. Do you feel

like a more serious shift in your life? I think I don't feel burdened by it. I feel like sometimes that's implicit in the sense of the seriousness. It's you can both take it for the weight that it has and also not lose sight of the fact that it's an incredible opportunity. Right. And I think for me, the idea that it's my job to represent this city that I love and that my job means I get to speak to New Yorkers and go across the five boroughs and see people in their own lives. It's amazing. And then there's also there are parts of it that are absurd. I told my landlord I was moving out. And she was jokingly saying, you know, make sure you clean up the apartment. If you don't, I know where you're moving to. I remember everybody knows. Yeah, everyone knows everything

about this pre this is this is your life yeah forever more this is this is your life it'll never be the same after this moment it won't but I think that's what I love though is that you learn different parts of the city because of what your life is like now hmm you know I think like for my wife and I we going out at night like going for a walk at night yeah it has a different kind of meaning now because it's where we can find a little bit of anonymity right And so you start to appreciate the city at an hour that you otherwise wouldn't have gone before because you didn't have to make that kind of a decision.

Oh, okay. Do you have a night voice? It would be, I'm Zoran. Yeah? You can't still be Zoran with a night voice. Who? Mr. Cardam. Yes, yes.

Mayor Cardam. May a cardam to you. When the nights of New York get rough and Zoran can't do it. I'm here. Hey! That's what I'm talking about. Yes.

That's it. Don't go anywhere because we got more what now after this. That's what I'm talking about. All right, so I know we don't have a lot of time with you. So I wanted, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I was like, you're a very busy person now and, you know, you're doing all these things. I was trying to think if somebody was watching this episode, what would they hope to get from the conversation? There were only three things that really, really stuck out for me, like three larger ideas.

one was how you see the future of New York City, how you want to build it, how you want to change it, what you want to improve, what you think the challenges will be, et cetera. It's like the job, job part of it. The second part of it is the human being. And the reason I say that is because in everything that I've seen of yours, genuinely, it's either like caricatures of people who hate you or just like pieces about what you want to do,

but people sort of don't know you, you. And I think a lot of people would like to know who. who the human being is behind some of these ideas and then the last part is just like random shit that we'll talk about because you're also like a person

you see like now you did a joke with us I think you're the first politician I know who's ever told me like a joke maybe Obama was the first time where I was like oh this person actually knows humor

do you know what I mean but you're just like a like a dude he's just like a guy just a guy he is at night he's got him oh man so let's okay let's talk about new york wait hold on where are you from south africa

we're in south africa born in praetoria okay does this count against our time by the way sorry you know i love you eugene i just want to know if this counts against our time wait what did you say does it count against our time no before that you know i love you eugene you finally got it you finally got it how many podcast episodes does this take huh thank you

you are loved thank you you are seen thank you you are enough is this what it took so is this

come on Johannesburg by way of Pretoria South Africa Josie stand up you know you know this you know this so let's talk about New York

and then we'll go we'll go through your life Sorry Eugene, because now they're going to be like you've run out of time and then I'll be like some of that time was taken by Eugene just, you know what we can even do. We can edit you in saying things about your life. We just, when you leave, you're just going to sit here and just be like, and then I, and we'll put that in.

And we'll call Ryan to double. And then we'll put a stunt double in. Ryan, you'll be Zoran stunt double. And then you must just like, yeah, but anyway. So let's, let's. Sorry. Actually, run us through the process, right? Like, what's what are the orders of business

that you're doing right now. Like let's go from the shortest term and let's build out as your job is mayor. So what are you doing right now? Right now is the transition period. Okay. So right now is the time where we are vetting applicants

who are making hiring decisions. We're building out the team. So it's a bit of a strange period because everyone knows about the election. Everyone knows about January 1st and then you have these two months in between. And so typically in these two months it's a lot of kind of pomp and pageantry.

we want to get ahead of January 1st. We want to make the decisions in the appointments in advance of January 1st, and what this also means is we want to build that team. So so far, we have made a few decisions of first deputy mayor, chief of staff, police commissioner, and then in the next few weeks, we have to start filling out additional top positions.

What do you base that on when you're picking that? And the reason I ask this is because you're such a unique candidate. right so if you had come through the the regular pipeline of oh establishment establishment i almost feel like it would have been pre-picked for you in a weird way it would have been who you knew yeah because we always see that happen right it's like when hillary clinton was running then you'd be like the person she's going to pick is the person who used to be the person who used to be the person you're like oh it's all like the same team and then you just shift around who's where you get i'm saying no yours is is different though so how do you pick and where do you

pick. I think it's on an assessment of the work that people have done. And it's quite liberating actually to come into this position and not have to owe favors. You know, not be like, unburdened. You're just actually making decisions based on do you think this person can do the job? How can they show you that they've already done the job? And you're looking for this combination of a fluency with what it looks like to work within government and an imagination that is unburdened by the difficulties of working within that government. Okay. Right?

So sometimes you would think that the more time you spend in government, the less ambitious you become about what you can do within government. Yeah. But one of the reasons that I hired Dean Fulahan

to be my first deputy mayor, he had served 47 years in working in government at the city and the state level is the first time we sat down for Adani Chai at Kahua House. He told me about how he transformed. Like the drink?

Okay. You ever had Adichai? Ryan, have I had it? I'm assuming I've had variations of it No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The closest Indian, the closest Indian. The closest...

I'm right here. Yeah, but you weren't with me drinking. You owe... You owe Zora and apologies. Give me an apology. You owe... I apologize. I accept.

Shap. But yes, I've had chai. Shep, shab. Shab. So, yeah, so you were sitting down, having chai. And he talked about how he transformed the culture of the Office of Management and Budget from a culture of no

to a culture of how. And to me, that is an example of what we're trying to do with government. Because when you'll say you have an ambitious policy proposal, you want to deliver universal childcare, you want to make buses fast and free, there will be so many people you can find

who can tell you it's impossible to do that. And the people you're actually looking for are not the ones who tell you it's easy. They're the ones who tell you it's difficult and here's how they're actually going to do it. So you're interviewing people for the job or you're picking people for the job and you're trying to find a balance

between the people who've shown that they can do it. But then I'm assuming you're also interviewing people who like you are new to a position because that's the weird paradox right you've never been mayor of New York and now you're going to be mayor of New York so how do you then judge a person

who's never done the job like what are you looking for in those people where you go hey you haven't done this but I think you can vision you're looking to hear from them about how they would actually transform the position that you're asking them about there's a real temptation especially when you're looking at a job of this scale

and you're looking at you know we're talking about positions that oversee agencies of tens of thousands of people there's a temptation to say I'm just going to keep the trains running on time but that's not enough that's not enough in a city that's the most expensive

in the United States of America it's not enough in a city where one and four people live in poverty you have to both be able to continue to operate things as they are and push them forward to delivering the city we deserve why do you think or do you think

because I mean I do so I don't want to bias you but like it feels like particularly in America and maybe other parts of the world it feels like conservatives have been pretty good at imagining and hoping and then liberals or progressives or however people want to

left side of the spectrum have sort of adopted this idea of like hey hey hey hey hey hey let's just keep it working well and you can't really change much you can't like do you know how many interviews of yours I've watched where people say Zoran now I agree with your politics I love what you're saying but I just don't know

that we can do it I just don't think you'll be able to get it done. I just don't, but not once have I seen somebody interviewing, like, Trump, for instance, on a right-wing platform go like, ah, dog, I don't know about that war. I don't know, man. That's a big-ass war. How are you going to do it? Do you get what I'm saying? I do.

I think it's, you have people, it seems like Republicans have a limitless imagination. Yeah. And as Democrats, we're constructing an ever-lowering ceiling of possibility. It's right here. Yeah. You know, and we are robbing ourselves of ambition and imagination and we're telling people that their choice is between settling or sacrifice. And neither of these are enough. You have to have an affirmative vision of how life can be better than this because this life already is suffocating people.

I sometimes think it's because of the decline of religion on the left. Tell us more. I could, I look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And you know you will tell me. Wait, if there's one thing, I will tell you. Hello. Is what I'm wrong. Am I allowed to speak?

Yeah. I like that you say that into a microphone. As if the microphone wasn't placed there for the possibility that you may speak. Am I allowed to speak? You literally look, you know what you look like right now? You look like somebody at those like town halls where they came from the crowd and then they don't know how anything works. Or a checker's. He's about to make an announcement.

But let me, let me say this point. And then, yes. Let me say. So this is the thing. Before you say this point, though. Okay. Did you steal this point from? me there's a distinct possibility okay as friends okay no no continue continue as friends i mean i don't

know how you are with your friends but if my friend has a great idea it's mine it becomes a part of my thinking this this point might have come by way of a friendship tapawa that's exactly what it is and when it was open no one was taking responsibility for what's inside preach eugene preach tell people about these relationship tapaways huh instead of focusing on where the tapawair ends up you should focus on the fact that your friend took the meal that was inside the Tupper way. And enjoyed it. And enjoyed and shared it. And he may return it with another meal inside. That's true.

That's true. Many of the ideas that you have came from me. And some of that which idea of yours did I know. So the owner of the idea to me the owner of the idea is not important. I think good ideas

should live beyond people. But if you think about religion and and how in most parts of the world, religion is declining, but it's declining in areas where people are particularly left-leaning or progressive. You know what I mean? You see I don't think religion is the type. I think faith is declining. Yeah, but the two have been combined for a long time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And one of the things that like faith requires of you is the ability to believe that this current state that you are in is not the end. There is a possibility that something can be greater. And even though you cannot see it,

You believe that it can happen. It requires literally everything that you just said. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that I've found over the course of the campaign that it's often in houses of worship where New Yorkers still have that trust. Really?

Still have that faith. And it's by and large lost when it comes to politics. You know, I mean, there are so many people who look at politics as irrelevant to their material struggles on a day-to-day basis. And part of that is because of their own experiences of believing in politicians who have not delivered and thinking that the rational decision is to

take as much space as you can. How do you find... Just real quick, I just want to know, like, this is a difficult one, like with delivery. How do you think the public should judge a politician's delivery or lack thereof? Because some things that people set out to do won't be achieved because that's how life is.

You aim for something and you fail, right? And then some are because, of regulation or kickbacks or you know corporations or lobbyists so so one part of it is because of like a mud and a sludge and then the other one is because just life is like that so how would you like people to judge you when you're in the mayorship and go all right zoran this thing you did achieve so that's one side but for the things that you you didn't like how would you want people to judge your failures which are inevitable in anything that people do we we built a campaign around three policy commitments.

Freezing the rent for rent-stabilized tenants, making the slowest buses in America fast and free, delivering universal child care. We have to deliver these things. Okay. That's non-negotiable. To me, I think it's every day I'm going to wake up pushing these three things forward.

And there's no question. This is incredibly difficult work. There are things you will try and you will fail. I think what frustrates so many is that there are so many things where it looks like someone is not even trying they are just admitting defeat from the beginning you know they're describing something

as unrealistic or impossible Mediba said it always seems impossible until it's done Nelson Mandela for those who don't know can I ask a question you're going to say Nelson Mandela took that from you as well I know how you work I know the shit that you're going to say he's going to be like where did he get that idea? Where did he get that idea? Who was in prison with him? Mr. Oh, I'm the only person with ideas. Please share some with us, Dave. Before he says something, I'd like to say,

it probably wasn't his idea because he's been quiet. When you started speaking, he didn't say anything. The title was my idea. You know when you get those movies that have the same title, but it's a different movie, the title was my idea. Like the one where the, oh, no, no, my. Okay. So now, uh, mayor-elect Mamdani. Do you know your, powers you know like because you run for mayor but at some point there's like you have powers certain powers do you know them all is do they give you like a book these are your actual powers they don't give you a book do you no i'm saying you know what i mean like no i i i do i have i have definitely an awareness of of what power this jobs comes with i'll give you an example on the three

policies i was speaking of the first one freezing the rent for rent stabilized tenants city of eight and a million people, about two and a half million live in housing called rent-stabilized housing, right? And what does that mean? Just because I see people conflate stabilized versus rent. Rent control is a very small proportion. We're talking about rent-stabilized. What does that mean? Rent-stabilized basically applies to half of all tenants in New York City. And it means that their rent, whether it will increase or stay the same, is determined by a board called the Rent Guidelines Board. Okay. The board is composed of nine appointees, all of whom are appointed by the mayor. yes so we have seen this board freeze the rent in the past we have seen this board raise the rent like it has under eric adams more than 12 percent so when i talk about freezing the rent i'm talking about this board composed of mayoral appointees finally giving tenants the relief that they deserve okay so that's sorry just to clear that up so that is like you know you know the question because sometimes when it comes to politics people will be like you know you vote the person in then later on it's like no technically i didn't have that power because you know you know that

No, people try to obfuscate what their responsibility is. Yes, exactly. The second and the third points that I brought up of making buses fast and free, delivering universal childcare, these are things that have to be done in partnership with Albany, state government, right? The reason that it was at a core part of my campaign, though, is any mayor with an agenda that is as ambitious as the crisis in front of them will require state partnership. Okay.

Because the city is effectively a creature of the state, especially after the 19th. 70s fiscal crisis. So one of the most impressive achievements in city politics in the last few decades was the creation of universal pre-K. That was done by the previous mayor, Mayor de Blasio, who ran on that as part of his agenda, needed Albany to get it done. There were all these articles written about how it was unrealistic. He went up against a governor who was very much opposed to it. And he won the funding for that because of the coalition that he built. And so my point here is that there are some things you can do directly yourself. There are other things you will have to build the coalition around you to do.

But all of these things have to be part and parcel of it. Because I can tell you, to my mind, one of the most frustrating things you can tell a New Yorker when they call your district office is, oh, that's not actually my jurisdiction. Yeah, yeah. You should call this person or you should call at that level. Being the mayor of this city comes with immense power, not to say total power at all, but immense power to at least start an agenda and then start to deliver that agenda

when you build the coalition you need. That's where I see the possibility in these three things. So, okay, great. This is great. Wait, you know, when you say the thing about the book of power, it makes me think of like, I think you and I actually had this conversation. We talked about how...

Mostly me giving ideas. We talked about how, again, I don't care where good ideas come from. No. My idea is people shouldn't worry about their egos. but no but we had this conversation about we talked about we're too much Trump and we literally we joked and we said it feels like Trump was the first person to read that book do you know what I mean because there's so many things done no because there's so many things

where Trump is doing it and then people are like can a president do that and then it's like oh yeah he can and you're like wait wait we didn't know that you could do all of these things and I think that's sort of what the question is yeah and and I think it's look we have this transition we have four incredible co-chairs one of them is Lena and Lena Khan Can we get Lena Khan on the show by the way? She's one of my favorite human beings No, can I tell you

I will have a separate conversation about this I'll tell you why I hate away from our time Yes But it'll add time value It'll add value No, I'll tell you why Lena Khan

Like you see on a wall of like superheroes The way I hate monopolies, mergers, acquisitions And you know this as my friends Olando Perrette I don't think that counts What about the Orlando Pirates? But thank you for that

things he hates. Merger Acquisitions Kaiser Cheats Oh man He broke my brain Like Orlando Pirates Cortas with no Russian

No Anyway I'll tell you she's a hero Because I think She taps into And I think that's maybe why you picked her part of it is she taps into the understanding that not everything is happening on the surface the way you think it is and then you go like why did that happen why did

that happen and she's like oh let me show you where it started like she's at the origin story of a lot of these things and she spoke about that when she first got to her job she felt like she was experiencing the great forgetting where she got there and it felt as if so many people working in government had forgotten the tools they had at their disposal you see that's that's And I think we It's There is a need for imagination For the new kinds of policies and proposals you put forward

And also an ambition to use your existing set of tools Yeah To actually transform people's lives Don't go anywhere Because we got more what now after this Do you think Can I just one more question Just sorry, sorry really

This is now He's not sorry. Now, okay, I'm going to make, okay, one more question. Now, just to wrap up the powers thing, do we all agree as New Yorkers that ambulances are too loud? Is something? Oh, I feel like this has turned, this is literally turned into those. It really has turned into a town hall.

No, I'm just, no, your posture, can I tell you? I always look at when I watch town halls and people come up and do this thing. I'm always like, who are these people? I didn't know I'm friends with one of them. Okay. The pot, like the posture, the everything, just like, can we all agree? that ambulances are too loud. And speaking of powers.

Yes, exactly. Here's my pet issue. But yes. We're talking about mergers and acquisitions. I like how Dave gave himself citizenship. As citizen. Yeah, yeah, you can. Wait, wait, wait, Dave, Dave, wait.

No, but actually, I do like this question because I think, you know why, as I get it, macro versus micro, I think these are like the nice things to try and understand. I'll interpret for you, yes. So now, one, we all agree that ambulances are too loud. Way too loud.

I agree. They're too loud. They're way too loud. One ambulance and the entire Manhattan knows that, you know, that. Yes, I agree. You don't even know. You don't even know. Is that too much of an inconvenience for you?

No, Eugene. Eugene. No, let me explain. No, let me explain. No, let me explain. This is what Dave means, really. You don't even know where it's coming from. It's pointless at some point.

It knows where it's going. That's the most important bar. But nobody knows where it's coming. But anyway, finish asking it. Cool. So now, would you say that in, some way or form the citizens of New York, both documented and documented. I'm not even joking because you're trying to expose me.

But now, would you say that it is, that you pledge to have a like some sort of database, not database, but link, so that we can see what's inside the ambulance. What's going on? No, because, because. I never knew where the next sentence was going. Welcome to Dave. Welcome to Dave. You just summed up Dave.

If there was a review of Dave. So if it's too loud, you want to know what's happening inside? Can I tell you? No, can I tell you? I think what he wants to know is, is it justified being loud? Yes. Has the person stubbed their toes? Yes.

Or is this person in cardiac arrest? Yes, that's what I mean. Or you decrease the volume. Do you know what I mean? If not everybody is having an emergency the way these ambulances tell us, that's not possible. Do you regret being mayor yet? I'm saying. This is your life.

You know this is your life, right? In your book of powers, you're going to be having dinner. You're going to be having dinner and this guy's coming up. I know too many guys like this anyway. Now I'm the mayor. I still know this. No, because you have these big ideas. That's what I'm saying.

In your book, I'm sure you can say that and most people will agree. most people will know no no because we all agree at some point we're going to need ambulance small injury small small siren big siren big siren big siren

now on a real though can you like are those the kinds of things that you actually can do unilaterally or do you need to like is there a board is there no I think this question yeah I mean it I mean I know it sounds crazy

okay okay what about what about so you don't know what's in the book I am not going to sit here and pretend that I even know the process by which you would consider trading volume

for severity of no you don't know what's in the book that's the thing because it could be it could be in the book thank you for your time sir thank you thank you as you can see so Dave definitely lives in New York

and experiences this this is actually what I love about it is like as you as you're building up in this transition and you're getting ready for these things How do you find, so you have these three big policies that you've run on, you've gone rent, we are aiming to freeze the rent, especially where we can immediately and then work on helping other people. The second thing you're going with is the buses.

They need to be faster. They need to be free. And the third thing you're working on is the child care. And the number four is Dave. Number four is Dave. So, I mean, you've made it. You've made it. You've made it.

You've made it. At this point, it's the only way out. So my question is, when you're in that, Is there a system for you as mayor to go, these things are small but annoying and they actually make a difference in people's lives? Like the sound of sirens or for instance. How do you find those balances?

I think this is, it's not just that government has often said a crisis is too big, we cannot tackle it. It's also that government has said this issue is too small. It's not worth our time. And as much as we laugh, issues of this scale, whether it be the sound of something or the noise of something

or these to New Yorkers are examples of a city that's not working for them. Yes, it is actually. Whatever it may be. And you need to be able to prove that your city government takes it seriously

because wherever you are losing people's faith, losing people's trust, that's also where you're losing their faith and trust in an ambitious agenda. You know, I was at a town hall with an incoming city council member. His name is Ty, at Rochdale Village in Southeast Queens.

And an older woman got up and she had a question for me. She said, will you honor a promise that was made to be multiple mayoral administrations ago? And I was like, what is this promise going to be? And she said, they promised to put a speed bump at this corner. And it hadn't been done for more than a decade. And I was thinking to myself, how could I ask her to believe in the possibility of delivering universal child care if the same government

couldn't even get her a speed bump that they had promised that they had promised more than a decade ago because when you betray that promise you are telling that New Yorker that they should not look to city government as something or someone that could deliver on their needs

and they start to turn away and then when you ask ourselves why aren't more people voting why aren't more people invested where more people engaged a lot of it is based on experiences like this where the best that they can hope for from their city government is neglect or ignorance. And we have to win people back

through the power of example. You can't finger wag your way to getting someone invested in the politics of their own city. You have to prove it to them. You have to prove that you were right to believe. And here we are actually delivering it. I don't know if I can prove it to you, Dave. But can I say, although I joined the mob in laughing at you, I will say, though, this is a issue that I fully stand behind. Which part of the issue? No, no, the Transparent ambulances or silent ones. I'll tell you why. No, I'll tell you why.

It's an idea that I've had that maybe I got from you. And this idea has always been, this idea has always been, there's a disconnect in politics and in the management of cities, countries, states, etc., where there are the things that will dramatically change your life, that are actual things that you need to happen. And then there are things that make you think your life is getting better or getting worse, but they aren't actually. and it's a strange thing that people have in society

you know what I mean some things can make people feel safer some things actually make you safer some things can make you feel like a city's functioning some things actually make it function and it's I'm always intrigued around like how a politician manages that when you get into that position

how do you manage that perception so sirens is a good one when you live in a city where you constantly hear sirens it seems like something's always going wrong recently when I traveled to London Amsterdam all these I was I was shocked at how quiet it was but it took me a while to realize something was like missing and then you're like wait it's quiet and the quiet just makes you feel like

where's Dave? Man can I tell you something can I tell you something your timing is impeccable this Uganda on Uganda violence I'm here for it I'm here for it All I'm waiting for Zoran to turn and do is look at you and be like, why are you Dave? Why are you Dave?

Are you not Dave? Okay, so help me understand why you chose the three. The freezing the rent, I mean, I hope is self-explanatory to everybody. The cost of living is unsustainable in New York and in many places in the world. If people cannot afford to live, then they don't even want to be part of that society. The buses, help me understand why faster buses and free buses. So these are the slowest buses in America. Okay.

Like, what do you mean by that? Like, the speed that they go? We're talking about an average speed in certain parts of Manhattan around five miles an hour. That's walking fast. You can beat the bus when you walk. Yeah, yeah. And what we see is that more than a million New Yorkers ride the bus. Okay.

It costs $2.90. That is out of reach for one in five New Yorkers. So when you make the bus free, you not only provide economic relief where you ensure that it's universally accessible, you also actually make it safer. We did this at the state legislature. I've been a state assembly member for a few years. And I worked with Mike Gianaris, a state senator. We made five bus routes free in New York City. When we made those bus routes for you after a year, assaults on bus drivers dropped by 38.9%.

On the bus drivers? On the bus drivers. Because unlike the train, the act of fare collection on the bus happens on the bus. It's their job, yeah. And bus drivers and unions have shared anecdotally that about 50% of assaults happen around the fare box. So when you eliminate the fair box, you make for a safer. experience for the bus driver, for everyone on the bus. And what's fascinating back to the point you were just making about perception and reality

is when they made a few bus routes free in Boston under Mayor Wu's leadership, they found that even more than the safety that was provided is that people felt safer to even higher degree than that, right? We saw this as well in Kansas City to varying extent in different parts of the country. And it has the economic benefits, has the public safety benefits, and even has benefits of bringing people who would otherwise be driving their car or taking a taxi and getting them on the bus. More than 10% of the new riders on these five bus routes were otherwise going to use private. So it becomes economically viable for them.

And I think what it comes back to is that if you pair the making of the bus free, which then also enables you to use any door to board, you don't have to wait behind anyone who's looking for their metro car or used to be looking for their coins, you can just board and exit. You speed up the time at each bus stop. In Boston, you cut the dwell time by 23%. So there's a speed that's incorporated in this. And then the other part of this is that the city owns its own streets. The city can speed up a bus through the infrastructure it chooses to build or not to build. Got it.

Bus lanes, busways, bus rapid transit. It's a political choice that that bus is traveling at five miles an hour. You can make that bus be the most obvious way to get around this city. Right now, so often New Yorkers are taking the bus because they have no other option. We want it to be such that it is the option. You choose. So that's what it comes back to. And the other part of this is this is disproportionately hurting working class New Yorkers.

Because a bus rider, the average salary of a bus rider is around $30,000 a year. We are talking about the most working class New Yorkers who are dealing with some of the most substandard public transit. And it's a political choice. It feels like New York has, like many cities in the world, fallen as the trap of fixing what needs to be fixed for the wealthy. and then sort of ignoring or pushing aside the problems that affect the poor. I mean, I think about when you fly. We have made it such a difficult experience to go through TSA that there's now a financial incentive to sign up for a separate program

that can move you through it quicker. I mean, we have monetized the dysfunction of flying. Do you think that's by design, though? I'm going to leave that to you and Dave, man. Yeah, convenience is up for sale. Absolutely. Convenience has been up for sale for the long of time. But it's absurd to me that you should have to pay for the experience that you should already be getting.

You're already paid. Anyway. This is a real question about the... I thought you said no more questions. No, no. Oh, on that topic. Oh, on that topic. There's a real question.

on the buses. How come you didn't go with like the people who were paying can who, you know, because some people not don't mind paying, but they like, they can pay in a way to keep the revenue coming in. And then people who can't pay. This is a good question. Can't pay then they have a way of like, okay. This is in effect a question about universal approach versus means tested. means tested would say if you make a certain income or less, then you should be eligible for a reduction in your fare or the elimination of your fare. There already exists a program in New York City called Fairfares,

where if you make a certain amount of money or less, you'll get a reduced fare. The MTA, by last estimate, when they were testifying at the state, they said about 40% of eligible New Yorkers are enrolled. The question was asked to them, what would success look like? They said 50%. So success looks like.

like leaving 50% of your eligible population out of your program. And so whenever you create a means tested program, you are comfortable to some level with saying goodbye to people who would be eligible for it because you know the hurdles of creating a bureaucratic system of proving eligibility, of applying, of receiving, and then of using. Versus if you make something free at point of use, you capture the entirety of everyone you're looking to serve. And this is, the difference is that the safety of that bus, the efficacy of how it is moving, the question of the doors, all of this is tied to the elimination of fare at once. And when we made those five bus routes free, we found the most significant increase in riders was among New Yorkers making

$28,000 a year or less. They're already eligible for fairfares. But less than 20% of them were enrolled in that program. So that to me is if you are serious about reaching everyone. Yeah. Then here's how you do it. You know what it's similar to funny enough? It's similar to what I feel like they're doing with voting in America, right?

They are systematically making it harder and harder for people to vote but basing it like the premise is no, no, no, it's super easy to vote. All you have to do is all you have to do is, all you have to do is

all you have to. to do is all you have to do is all you have to do you know what I mean it's like get this ID but this new type of ID needs this type of identification and then it's like well which ones do you accept oh you're gun one oh we take the gun one NRA will work oh but this one doesn't work

and this what I mean it should be five minutes yeah and more importantly it's the trick of saying it's free you free to enter but then the process of coming in is not really free do you know what I mean it's like the trick of the interns like to be an

turn you've got to be a pretty rich kid I work for free yeah but do you know how much you have to earn to work for free and I feel like that's that's what you're tapping into with the with the child care thing is that is that a similar no wait wait wait there's similar principle is like with a child care thing what do you think I mean it seems obvious some people would go and we've seen discussions around this you know privatization and said they'd be like oh the private sector should be dealing with this why is the government getting involved in child care They shouldn't just, you know, companies provide child care? Why do you think it's important for the state to step in, for the city to step in?

Well, look, when the city and the state doesn't step in, companies have to put forward childcare benefits, child care services. Why should that be a company's job? You are seeing companies having to provide a service that should be provided by the city and the state. I mean, quite literally, you have companies that have childcare on site. You have companies that are giving annual stipends for, you know, paying towards child care. The point of this is that if we do, you know, do not treat this as the social crisis that it is.

It's we are going to make, we're going to pass this cost on. And this is actually a cost that we should be bearing at a city and a state level. And the average cost of childcare in New York City for one child is $22,500. But that's close to what you just said the earning, the average earning was for, I mean, that's, that's insane. It is cheaper to send that same child 18 years later to the city university of New York than it is to find child care for them. That's how expensive it is. And we often talk about delivering universal child care in the language of how much it will cost

and how difficult it will be as if it doesn't already cost this city and state an immense amount today. In 2022, we lost $23 billion in economic activity because of the absence of universal childcare. Explain how. Because you had people leaving this city, leaving this state.

After housing, the number one thing driving people out of this city, childcare. They're going anywhere they can find childcare for cheaper. And it's not just people whose kids they can't get child care for. It's also childcare workers who cannot live off of the average salary at a home-based setting of $10 an hour. People cannot live off of that. And we keep asking ourselves, why is it so hard to raise a family in this city?

It's like, look at the cost. I was sitting on the M-57, the slowest bus in Manhattan, a few months ago. and a city worker was seated behind me. She started speaking to me about how she had two kids. The only reason she could make it work here was because her 84-year-old grandmother would take care of those kids every single day. And she told me that when her 84-year-old grandmother

has to go to the doctor or she feels sick, the only option this mother has is that she has to take a sick day from work because she can't afford child care. We are pushing people out of the city. And frankly, people are feeling it when they're making $40K a year, they're feeling it when they're making $100K,

they're feeling a $200k because $22,500 is an immense amount of money after tax and we could be providing this So there's a real question, real question Based on the time You're going to run out of time You choose your last question well

Yes, based on child care What is this going to look like Practically? Do you know what I mean? What is it mean? Zoran's going to come look after your child No man, come on, you see you are now wasting my time What is it? There's never a waste of time when a joke is in

Can we all agree? Never. Thank you. Never, never. Never. Jokes are never a waste of time. In fact, never. Anyway, do you know, what is this?

That's a great question, by the way. Practically. You will see a system that is building on the infrastructure we already have. And what that means is it's going to be something built out that includes both center-based care and home-based care. There are many New Yorkers who feel more comfortable sending their child to a neighbor who is providing child care for a few children on that block. There are other New Yorkers who prefer sending their child to a child care center. And we can look at universal pre-K, which we were talking about earlier, as a model for both

how it took an immense cost burden off of the backs of working families, but also how it stood up an entire infrastructure. Because this is the thing that's also missing in so much of city government is a sense of urgency of actually being able to scale something up. And that, to me, the commitment we've made, delivering child care for New Yorkers, from ages 5 down to 6 weeks of age. And so what we have right now is we have universal pre-K. We have 3K in New York City, but it is broken.

The first order of business is to fix 3K. And then we look at 2K, we look at 1K, we look at delivering child care for children right now that if their parents don't have the money or they don't have a family member, we see that those parents often leave. I mean, 80% of New Yorkers with children under 5 cannot afford child care in the city. 80%. 80%. I find myself wondering about labels a lot

and how they limit our ability to think because your name, synonymous, socialist and then people are trying to be disparaging, communist but you see it a lot of this social, he's trying to turn America into this guy doesn't like and yet every time I hear you speak you talk about how much money the thing will generate for businesses, for people themselves,

for you do you when you think of how people process the label of socialism or the idea behind it do you think they themselves have an understanding of what it actually means versus what they've been told it means did you do you get what I'm saying yeah I think as a as a Muslim socialist I'm familiar with bad PR it's it's good old MS it's it's a long journey to explain But I think, you know, many people have caricatures in their head as to what it means. Yeah. I often turn to Dr. King to describe socialism. He said, call it democracy or call it democratic socialism.

There must be a better distribution of wealth for all of God's children in this country. It comes back to dignity. It comes back to ensuring that whatever you need to live a dignified life, that you have that. You should not be priced out of a necessity. We're not talking about want or like. We're talking about need. You should not be priced out of being able to have a home to call your own, of being able to send your kid to school and being able to ride the bus.

And I've found actually that when you're speaking to New Yorkers one-to-one, they've actually had far fewer questions of how I describe my politics and far more of does my politics include them? Are their struggles part of my focus? And I've found that there are many people who might describe themselves in a different way, but when I speak about what this would mean for New York City, they start to see themselves in that vision. And that's, I think, the key of this is how is this a politics

that actually reflects the struggles of working people? Do you think your politics and your campaign connected with people because you actually connected with people? I think a lot of it also had to do with the incredible team I had around me. To be honest, someone was asking me the other day about people trying to make videos the way that we made videos. And I was saying that part of it is it misunderstands that it's not as a much who's in front of the camera. It's also who's behind the camera. You can see a distinct

moment in the campaign when I stopped making the videos. It's the moment when the campaign became legitimate. Right. Right. And I think that that losing side of the collective and thinking it's all about the individual, it means you lose sight of how this campaign was built. All right. Your team is telling us we've got to wrap up. Do you promise... Didn't even talk about Mzanzi. That's what I'm saying. Do you promise to come back? make let give give me one that's the only promise i want i promise to come back you promise to come back you don't have to by the way you can say no and then i don't look then i don't have the promise this is my only way

no no then i don't have the promise and i don't mind i give you the promise all right then i'll take three minutes and then i'll let you here's a few things that i wanted to talk about yeah go well i want to talk about cape town yeah they really have to go like right now your team is like right what did you want to talk about cape town and cap town and caspar in your vest open the door and come get him caspar in your vest i wanted to about Questa. Wow, this guy's deep in this guy's deep in South Africa.

I want to talk about Ricky Rick. This guy. Rest in peace to Ricky Rick, man. Boss Zonke. Yeah? I love that song. You have to come back. And I want to figure out how we can get

major league DJs on Spotify. You know what we're going to do. Because I have listened to Slyzerzotzi on YouTube. This guy. We're going to do a trilogy. This was just the policy stuff. Part two. We're going to do Zoron's life stuff.

Also, we're having the elections of May of Jobberg next Part three, just South Africa. If you are available. Thank you. Thanks for taking him. It would be so funny if you've just got like a dinner reservation. That would be so blazing. No, no, no.

I'm just saying it would be funny. Anything for a joke, I don't care. If you take him, if this ends in a joke, if Zoran's like, I got to go, I got to go, go. And then he gets in like, for two, table for two, please. And then he gets it. Me and Shabalala. Yo man, Zoran Mamdani. Thank you very much.

Take your man away. To be continued. We've never ended a podcast like that. No, we've never. To be continued, part one. This episode is presented by Whole Foods Market. Whole Foods Markets has everything you need for the holidays, whether you're a guest or hosting the big dinner.

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