WHAT WENT WRONG - The Breakfast Club

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Rick Moranis gets fired, Judd Nelson goes full a**hole, and 16-year-old Molly Ringwald wields her power as John Hughes’ muse to great effect. This week producer David Boman guides Chris & Lizzie through 1985’s trope-defining The Breakfast Club; from its shoestring budget to the 110-degree set, and the birth of the Brat Pack.Go Ad-Free - Join Our Patreon!Check Out Our Merch!Follow Us on Instagram!What Movie's Next? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And welcome back to another episode of What Went Wrong, your favorite podcast that just so happens to be about movies and how it's nearly impossible to make them. I am one of your hosts, Chris Winterbauer, here as always with your other host, Lizzie Bassett. And we're here with a special guest, but I'll kick that over to Lizzie to take care of. Lizzie, how you doing tonight?

Oh, I'm great, especially because of our very special guest who I don't spend enough time with on a regular basis. Just kidding, we live together and work from home. The special guest is the one and only, our extremely talented producer, David Bowman, is joining us today. And by the look on his face, he's very excited. We forced him to do this. That is not true. Hey, guys, it's been a while since I've hosted since the last airbender.

You're ever present, David. Yes. So today, we are talking about a movie that Chris accurately. described as the movie that made me feel like I was an outsider growing up. And I think a lot of people relate to this movie, particularly if you saw it at the right age. So this week, we are talking about the Breakfast Club. This is potentially the movie I've seen the most in my life because it was one of the ones we had on VHS or DVD growing up. It was like, Titan A.E. was in there. Empire Records was in there. Cladiator. I just want to point out, I did not know that you had this connection to this

movie until you said that you wanted to do it. And then when I went to watch it and you were saying every line along with the movie, I realized how big of a deal this movie is to you. Banner Year at the Benderhouse. Yeah, no, I saw this movie so many times because I had older sisters and it was very much of their time and then I inherited it. So let's get into it. The Breakfast Club, written, directed and produced by John Hughes, originally entitled The Lunch Bunch. Nope. It came out in 1985. The IMDB description of the film is five high school students meet in Saturday detention and discover how they have a great deal more in common than they thought. It classically explores stereotypes and teen angst through the now iconic characters of quote, the brain, the athlete, the basket case, the princess and the criminal,

depicted by Anthony Michael Hall, Emilio Estevez, Ali Sheedy, Molly Ringwald, and Judd Nelson. This movie is New York Times Best 1,000 movies of All Time, so it made that cut. In 2012 Entertainment Weekly called it the number one teen movie of all time, it was rated the number one John Hughes movie by Gold Derby and Movie Web. That is interesting. So why? What's your... I would put several other John Hughes movies above this, but that's just me.

All right, guys, come at her in the comments. Keep going, David. Well, I wanted to ask you guys what your history was with this movie and what it was like rewatching it. Chris, you want to go ahead? Sure. I saw this movie. You might have been the person, David, who got me to watch it in high school.

Probably. I really liked it in high school. I really enjoyed most of... John Hughes' movies a lot. I think he's tremendously talented. And on rewatching it, there are some elements of the movie that, looking back, I didn't remember, I'm sure we'll get into, specifically the way Molly Ringwall's character is treated and a lot of the things that Jed Nelson says, his character says, Bender says.

That being said, I had, I think, a very similar reaction to this movie that Lizzie did with Gone with the Wind, which is, I really love this movie. I really liked it even on rewatch. And I totally agree there are some elements that I was like, whoa, I don't remember that line of dialogue or that physical action, et cetera. But I thought overall the themes still resonate. I found I found that conversations between the janitor and the principal, like much more interesting now than I'm older. I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm closer to, I am closer to their age than I am to the main characters. So I still really enjoyed it and appreciated it.

And I'm sure I'll save my reservations for, you know, things that we'll get to, I'm sure, later in the episode. I'll kick it to you, Lizzie. So I have seen this several times, but I don't know that I've ever seen it, like, all the way through. What I remember is that it was on TV, like, nonstop. And so I would kind of catch different bits and pieces of it. But, like, I was aware of, you know, the sort of cultural importance of this movie and, like, the iconic scenes and moments and everything. I had a bit of a harder time with it, I think, than you did on re-watching it, Chris. Maybe it's because we watched 16 candles right before it, which that one really does not

hold up. It was a little tough. I think part of it is that a lot of these characters were sort of the starting ground for standard teen movie characters in many, many years to come. But because of that, they look like tropes now to watch it. Like, they look very sort of basic and, and, like, you know, archetypes. Like, we were watching it, and I was like, Jud Nelson is just, like, the original fuckboy. Like, he is ridiculous. And, like, I found him, honestly, unwatchable. Like, not the actor so much because he's great. But I remember thinking he was so hot when I was younger and watching it as an adult, I was like, he's awful. Like, I would never hold a single conversation with this person.

He is a trash garbage nightmare demon, and Molly Ringwald needs to get far away from him. So I had a bit of a hard time with it. But it's still, it's cute. Like, it's fun. It's definitely, it is still enjoyable to watch. But I think if you don't have the same, like, deep connection from watching it, you know, 15, 20 years ago, it's a little tough to, fully connect to it now. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I also felt that rewatching it now, and again, I hadn't seen it for like 15 years, hearing people say some of the derogatory things back then was more common because we hadn't had a lot of the cultural sort of awakening stuff that we've had in the last decade and a half, two decades. Like, I can forgive some of the language things, I think, more, but some of the sort of like interpersonal things that were treated as like romantic or acceptable. I was like, oh, no. Yeah.

All right. Well, before getting into his bio, it's important to note how prolific John Hughes, the director and writer and producer of this movie was. According to Spy Magazine, before he even got a film produced,

Hughes had already completed 15 screenplays. Once he did start getting produced, his run was crazy. If you aren't familiar, here's a quick rundown of his work around that time, up until 1990, and he came out with movies after that.

But starting with 1983, National Lampoon's Vacation in Mr. mom came out. 1984, 16 candles came out. He directed that as well. That launched him into 1985, the Breakfast Club, which he directed and produced European vacation and weird science, all came out that year. He also directed Weird Science.

1986, Pretty and Pink and Ferris Bueller's Day Off. He directed Ferris Bueller's Day Off. 1987, some kind of wonderful planes, trains, and automobiles, which he also directed. 1988, she's having a baby in the Great Outdoors. 1989, Uncle Buck, and Christmas Vacation. I love Uncle Buck and Christmas Vacation. I know, Christmas Vacation, I think, takes a cake. It's so good.

And then 1990, Home Alone. Oh, that's right. He only wrote it. He didn't direct it. Yeah, I tried to mention when he directed those. I might have missed a few. But the list goes on. And in that time span, he also wrote for additional unproduced screenplays.

Yeah, I was going to say, I knew he had a number of unproduced screenplays. That's crazy. Yeah. He pumped out material. So, John Hughes, aka the philosopher of puberty, a.k.a. the O'Tour of Adolescent Anx was born in 1950 in Lansing, Michigan. He was a huge hockey fan and described himself as a kind of quiet kid. His family moved to Northbrook, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago when he was 13, where he would go on to send many of his movies, including the

Breakfast Club. After moving to Chicago, John Gottreliant, the music of Bob Dylan and the Beatles. He was quoted saying, My Heroes Were Dylan, John Lennon, and Picasso, because they each moved their particular medium forward, and when they got to the point where they were uncomfortable, they always moved on. His experiences attending Glenbrook North High School, where he met his wife, then-chairleader Nancy Ludwig, are attributed as his main inspiration for the films that he eventually became known for. Okay, so he married a cheerleader? He married a cheerleader, yeah. Interesting. Someone should make this movie. He'd be really interesting. He attended the University of Arizona but dropped out before graduating. His first professional experience as a writer was writing jokes for Joan Rivers and Rodney Dangerfield. I knew he wrote for Rodney Dangerfield.

I had no idea he wrote for John Ranger. Didn't he have a relatively successful career as an ad copywriter? So those experiences writing for those to let him to his first jobs as a copywriter. That was his foot in the door. He was really good at ad copy. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Banner year at the Bender House, buy cigarettes.

Yeah, actually, his work on the Virginia Slims account often took him to fill at Morris in New York, which is where he would go and visit the National Lampoon offices. Wait, okay. So basically he's Don, he's Don Draper. I was going to say, because this is the 70s. This is the early 70s at this point. So he's literally the end of Madman. Early to late 70s.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Eventually, he was found his way to becoming a regular contributor at the National Lampoon. Editor PJ O'Rourke recalled that, quote, John wrote so fast and so well that it was hard for a monthly magazine to keep up with him. One of his first stories at National Lampoon was called Vacation 58. which would eventually go on to be the basis for National Lampoon's Vacation, which came out in 1983, but that actually wasn't his first screenplay that got made.

The first screenplay that got made was one of two films meant to replicate the success of Animal House. And the one that Hughes wrote was called National Lampoon's Class Reunion. Class Reunion came out in 82 and did not do well. The IMDB... Clearly. The IMDB description. It's been 10 years since Lizzie Boyd, in high school's class of 72 graduated.

What? The preppies, the hippies, and the in-crowd have returned to reminisce over good times past. Classmate Walter Baylor has returned to, but with a vengeance. Film critic Christopher Tuckie stated, it was a very inferior follow-up to Animal House with a remarkably tasteless basis for comedy. John Hughes can be blamed for the script, a feeble spoof of a slasher movie. Songs are used to extend running length, but even Chuck Berry seems under par. Well, that's, my understanding, too, is that his early writing was, like, very crude, very harsh,

sort of shockingly offensive. I know I'm going to get hate for being the voice of dissent in the room on this, even though I did enjoy The Breakfast Club, but I'm not saying it wasn't of the time what he wrote, but I will say the stuff that I have seen highlighted from his National Lampoon's writing is interesting because it feels very far from the more sort of sensitive characters he still managed to write in things like The Breakfast Club and Ferris Bueller and everything else. For sure. And we will definitely talk about that. So vacation did come out in 1983 and was a huge success. Along with the success of Mr. Mom, which came out the same year, John got a three-picture deal with Universal.

This would lead Hughes to the next phase of his career where his reputation for capturing the zeitgeist of 1980s team life would flourish. And what better way to transition into that than to talk about a relationship that would forever be associated with his legacy? The relationship between Molly Ringwald and John Hughes was very close for several years, as they would go straight from 16 candles to the Breakfast Club to Pretty and Pink. Ringwald is often referred to as Hughes Muse, and it bears out that he valued her opinion above all else. He also seemed to have a real connection to Anthony Michael Hall, which we'll talk about a bit. Ringwald will later say that she, quote, had a mad crush on him without a doubt. It's pretty heady stuff to have somebody who is so inspired by you that they are writing movies for you and studios are doing them. I felt like he really got me. I felt completely understood. So do we, was she like, was she a known quantity when he saw her or was she just kind of a random headshot that came across?

No, she was on, she came off of Annie. Okay. In the 19, in the late 1970s. Yeah, I remember. So she, I believe she started acting at around age nine or 10. Okay, okay. She was on stage with, she. She was on stage with Annie, and then she was on a couple sitcoms. She was on... That makes more sense. Different strokes as a child actor. And I think she could sing. And she sang on some, like, Disney stuff, a couple of Disney albums. I think she was known and she had acted, but 16 Candles was her breakout movies.

Exactly. Okay. But it wasn't like just a star search thing where they found her in the middle of nowhere. She was in the system at this point. I was going to say because, like, she is shockingly good if this was, like, the first thing she had been found on. So that makes sense. So let's talk about pre-production. Due to his lack of experience, John Hughes was originally met with pushback when he said he wanted to direct the breakfast club.

But he was able to convince the studio by leaning on the modest $1 million budget for this film. That makes sense. It's one location, basically. It's five actors. Yeah. Right. The one thing I didn't understand, I didn't understand why they would. go from a very successful $6.5 million budgeted movie, which was 16 candles.

Well, okay, so that kind of makes sense because I was doing a little bit of reading about this, and I did read Molly Ringwald's piece in The New Yorker, which is great. I highly recommend everybody read it. And it actually sounds like he wrote the Breakfast Club first and wrote that intending for that to be his directorial debut. So that kind of makes sense why? Because it's one location. it's a smaller cast.

It's like way less pieces to control than 16 candles was. But this is crazy. What happened was that he was like ready to go on the breakfast club with this, you know, tiny, what was it, one million budget. And he was starting casting. Like they were that far along into it. And Molly Ringwald's headshot came across his desk. And he stopped everything on the breakfast club and wrote 16 can. candles for Molly Ringwald goes back, makes 16 candles first, and then moves forward with the

Breakfast Club. So that's why. And also, I think maybe by that point he had gotten more ground with Mr. Mom and... Vacation, right. So he was able to get more money for 16 candles. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, vacation had come out in 83, and it was Fourth of July weekend, I think, according to that Molly Wild article, Lizzie, Fourth of July weekend of 83, so it would have been shortly after, I think, vacation came out. And at that point, I had also read that he was looking to do something that had a little more action in it because that had succeeded with vacation and Mr. Mom. That makes sense. And Breakfast Club doesn't have any action, where 16 candles does. And so, well, last thing,

and I think we'll get, we can get back to the breakfast club. But this also, now that we're talking about this, this makes sense in terms of when we sort of mentioned the, like, much rougher earlier writings and then how sort of sensitive and more paired down things get. The Breakfast Club, even though there are things in it that, you know, are shocking by today's standards, I think would have been a much bigger departure from the earlier things he had written than 16 candles was. So that that kind of makes sense that he was like, oh, not yet. Yeah, not ready to jump into the deep end yet. I'll go halfway with 16 candles. Okay, cool. So let's get into the casting of the breakfast.

Club. Anthony Michael Hall was cast very quickly as the brain because John Hughes knew him and knew that the guy who pulled off the role of the nerd and farmer Ted in 16 candles was going to be the right fit. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's so good in this. Fun fact, the woman and girl who play his mom and sister that drop him off are actually his real mom and sister. And the person that drives him away at the end of the whole movie is actually John Hughes. Mr. John. Yeah, I do want to point out that David was like, David was like, the big cameo. There's a big cameo coming up. Keep your eyes peeled.

Keep your eyes peeled for this cameo. And I was like, is a man. It kind of looks like my dad, maybe a little bit, driving the car. And he was like, it's John Hughes. And I was like, never seen him before in my life. He does kind of look like your dad. Yeah. So similar thinking on Hughes's part, he knew that he wanted to work with Molly Ringwald again.

But he had her in mind for Allison. But Molly Ringwald did not. want to take on that role because she felt that the loner role would be too similar to her role in 16 candles. And she didn't want to get typecast at that point. So she said that she wanted to take on Claire. And because of the relationship that they had, he was trusted her and wanted to make her happy. And so he allowed that to happen.

But there were a couple of people who auditioned for Claire before this went down. Any guesses on that? Lizzie does a great impression of one of them. She is in a movie that we recently discussed. I have no idea. Panic room? Jody Foster? Jody Foster was thought of for the role of Claire.

Jody Foster? Oh, wow. Oh, my, Jody Foster was going to be in the smear. I realize Jody Foster is female Owen Wilson in the way she speaks a little bit, just a little bit. Anyway, Owen Wilson is male. Yeah, come on. Sorry. My apologies.

Okay, here's a hint for another one. Stephen Ray Morris thinks about this person a lot. Laura Dern. Yep. Oh, interesting. I think they both would have been great, but Molly Ringwald's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, she is.

Oh, Laura Dern. I kind of, yeah, I kind of want to like to see that. The other ones who were considered were Diane Lane and Robin Wright. Both auditioned as well. Robin Wright would have been mean in a way that was kind of fun. So Andrew Clark, who is played in the movie by Emilio Estaviz, a little detour real quick. So Estevez, as you guys, I know, know, but maybe our audience doesn't, is the son of Martin Sheen. Martin Sheen's birth name was Ramon Estabez.

And all of the kids decided to keep that surname, except for Charlie Sheen, who obviously took his father's stage name. In the interview, I read, Emilio said that he kept it because his father later regretted having changed it. Also, apparently, Emilio liked the alliteration of Emilio Estevez. It's a great name. It's a beautiful, beautiful name. Estevez was originally actually considered for the role of Bender, but they could not find anyone to play Andy. And Hughes recalled seeing Emilio talking to someone in the corner after his audition, maybe like running. lines with someone else and something clicked and he was like well how how would you feel about that and

Amelia was on board so that's how they ended up with him for the role of Andrew I think he would have been good as Bender too I do too I like him a lot so there were a couple others uh in contention for John Bender any guesses Charlie Sheen no although that would have been great I mean he's in Ferris Bueller would have been really good and I'm actually shocked that he wasn't Johnny Depp and too early No. Christian Slater? No. All right. Since we've taken some time with other guessing, I'm just going to lay them out here. So Nicholas Cage was considered for Ben. Of course. Because Valley Girl must have been right around this. So fun. Banner here! At the Ben of your house!

But the leading contender was actually someone else who appeared in 16 candles, John Cusack. Oh, God. Would have been a more subdued. I love John Cusack. But interesting. He's wonderful. He's great. I'm not going to lie. I like both of them so much. I mean, Valley Girls is one of my favorite movies, and that came out the year before this. So I can see why they would have gone that route. So from the book, you couldn't ignore me if you tried by Susanna Gora. Jackie Burch, who was the casting director, saying it was a big day of screen testing. And at the time, no one knew Judd Nelson really. And QSack was a big name. Ringwald recalls that QSack was originally supposed to play the character. And Joan Kusack apparently was in contention for Allison. That's the only place that I read that. it's a pretty dependable resource. She's amazing.

Yeah. But Birch, the casting director, I think, was the one that broke it because she said she strongly felt that QSAC was totally wrong for the role. I don't think he would have the negative energy. He's so lovable. He wouldn't neg you quite as much as he harassed you. That is what they made in for this. They did.

Yeah. Right. So enter Judd Nelson. He was three years older than. Estevez and Sheedy. So let's just check in on the ages of our people at this point. Anthony Michael Hall and Molly Ringwall, they're both 16 years old when they make this movie. And he looks 16. She looks a little older than she is. Judd Nelson's 25. And he's the oldest.

So it's like a... Full-grown man. Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Star Wars kind of thing. Yeah, no, it's clearly a full-grown man in there. His hair looks a little gray in a couple of the scenes. It's literally gray. Right. So he was three years older than Estabez and Shidi. nine years older than Anthony Michael Hall and Molly Ringwald. But when he came in, he showed up big, came in with the jacket, the gloves, the boots, and the fuck you attitude. So here's a little clip

of Judd Nelson and Anthony Michael Hall talking about that audition in a documentary called Sincerely Yours made about the breakfast club. We're getting a little rambunctious, I think, in the waiting room outside. And the receptionist called for security. And so the elevator doors are opening with security just as someone opens the door from the side and goes, Judd Nelson, I go, yeah, okay, it's me, yes me, it's me. So I go in and start it's like, I was a little bit adrenalized. I would say, I'd almost like, yeah, okay, cops didn't get him.

When Judd walked in, he just had this sort of method, he had made this sort of method choice to just be like, I am Bender, and one of you guys is going to fucking figure it out. It's a risky, it's a risky way to do it, but it just seemed to, you know, certain roles, it's going to be hard for them to believe that you can pull it off if you're not already pulling it off. His outfit is also the fuck boy prototype as well.

It's funny how much I think was iterative about particularly his character in this. Ali Sheedy plays Alison Reynolds, The Basketcase. She was a serious ballet dancer starting at age six, but gave it up for full-time acting a few years later. And she still somehow managed to write a best-selling book called She Was Nice to Mice at the age of 12. What? Yeah. So the impression I get is that she's like just a really highly creative person and very, very talented, which I love her in this movie.

Polymath. Before Breakfast Club, she had been on a TV show called Hill Street Blues and starred in Bad Boys and War Games, both of which came out in 1983. War Games! I love that movie. Aside from the mention of Joan Kusack and Molly Ringwald, who obviously were considered for Allison, Brooke Shields was also considered for Allison. But it seems like she locked it in pretty early because Hughes really liked her. Richard Vernon. Hughes had seen Gleason in a scene in trading places where he's on a pay phone and a lady

shows up wanting to use it and he tells her to fuck off. Yes. He is so funny in trading places. He's so good at telling people to fuck out. Yeah, he's so good. He's maybe like his physical humor is pretty incredible. He's loved him when he thought of that scene of him and then ran it by Anthony Michael Hall, who he really valued his opinion and they both agreed that he would be great.

Hey, 16-year-old boy, what do you think about? I know. It's really weird, but like... Hi, Mrs. Hall. Hi, this is John Hughes calling. Is Anthony there? It's obvious that, like, that group that had been on 16 candles together was really connected.

Yeah. Before we get into the casting of the final character in the film, I have to take a quick detour to get us there. Hughes came from National Lampoon and he had a predilection for certain teen movie tropes. A lot of gratuitous nude scenes in movies like Animal House and Porky's, like we've discussed, and 16 candles like Lizzie was talking about, which we rewatched for some context on the

breakfast club, notoriously had some really gnarly elements like Long Duck Dong is the one that comes to mind. Yeah. You know, Howard the Duck would come out the following year. There was something about like this time period and a very bizarre horniness that was happening. I mean, it was like lead and the gasoline? Yeah, I'm not really sure what was going on. Ergit poisoning.

I don't know. The ozone got a little too thin for a while. So they're in rehearsals for the breakfast club. And in order to break up what Hughes was worried would be too much claustrophobic talking in the library between our five heroes, there was a scene in the shooting script where the school's synchronized swim team would come in to practice led by a sexy, very full-figured PE teacher. And at one point, there was a nude scene where the PE teacher gets spied on by Vernon,

who's looking in through a peephole. Okay. So that's National Ampoon's vacation. That's literally, right? Right. It's very of that ilk. So Hughes took Ringwald's opinion very seriously, and when she saw this scene, she was not okay with it.

So she teamed up with Ali Sheedy and co-producer Michelle Manning to get it cut. They went straight to Hughes and basically said, this is sexist, this is misogynistic, and they really ganged up on him about it. And to his credit, Hughes listened, went home that night, rewrote it, and came back the next day, having cut the scene and replaced the PE teacher with a janitor. Wow. Much better character. Much better character.

Yeah, but that lady, you know, that lady was like, it's my big break. I have a John Hughes movie. And then Molly Ringwald and Ali Sheedy do the right thing. But still. Yeah. So unfortunately, as you're saying, they had already cast the role of the P.E. teacher.

And the actress they hired was a woman named Karen Lee Hopkins. Hopkins, who would go on to be a successful actress and screenwriter, you should look her up because she wrote 1998 stepmom in 2014's Miss Meadows. Oh. Yeah, she had like a really successful career. as an actor and a writer. But for the Breakfast Club, her scene had been cut, so she was fired. That sucks. Here's a really interesting aspect of this, is the description of her role in the film, according to Ringwald and Hughes, is completely at odds with the account given by Hopkins

in an article that she wrote for the Hollywood reporter in 2015. She said, quote, John told me that my part was meant to bridge the gap between the students and the establishment. For my big scene, I deliver a speech. in the library to the five kids saying, this is just a small part of your total life history. What that meant was that even though everything feels intense in high school, that time ends and then real life begins.

We had been filming in Chicago one morning. I was at the hotel getting ready to leave when the phone rang. It was Jackie Burch, the casting director. I was being sent home. It was a surprise when friends recently sent me the Molly Ringwald New York Post article, saying that my breakfast club character

was merely there to provide a gratuitous nude scene. I don't remember one in the script, and I never filmed one. Oh. John kept conveying that my part was meant to be the slightly older person who makes it safely to the other side of high school and shows it can be done. There was a provocative scene in the script where the principal was meant to be watching me working out, but that scene didn't get shot.

This version of events doesn't track. If the filmmakers had been scouting for a Bucksum bombshell, they could have done better than me. And if the other female cast members felt that part was misogynistic, as the article suggested, I never heard anything to that effect. It certainly doesn't seem true to the character John created. or conveyed to me. But if that was the reason I could have handled it, instead I was left to speculate. The truth may hurt, but it's always better than not knowing.

Oh, God. I mean, I feel like that's just another angle to, like, how actresses were treated at that point, that it wasn't even explained to her what was happening? I don't know. I wonder, I would guess both things are true. Yeah. Like, I would guess she had a great speech. She's serving a similar function as, you know, what the janitor tries.

to convey but fails. But at the same time, she had a workout scene, and maybe she remembers there being no nudity, and Molly Ringwald remembers there was nudity, and who knows if there was or wasn't, but the function of the scene they describe as the same, she's being leered at by the principal, which does draw attention away from the kids

and their storyline in a weird way. And I could just see them having very different reactions. Also, Molly Ringwald was 16, and this was a full-grown woman. And the woman said, I have this, she's focusing on the speech. And Molly Rungwald at 16 is probably like, well, this speech isn't that big a deal, but this nude scene is, you know, so my guess is both things are true at the same time. Yeah, but my point is like just the fact that they should have told her. Yes, the fact that no one explained to this grown woman who was hired for what sounds like not a, this is not a cameo.

Like I had heard something about this, but I thought it was like like the woman in National Lampoon's vacation who would. literally doesn't have any lines and it's just in the pool, but it's not that. It was someone who was actually an active character in the script. That's kind of wild to have just fired her with no explanation and sent her home. Yeah, you should check out her Hollywood Reporter article because she really gets into it. And it's really interesting to hear her perspective on it. I don't think that's abnormal, though, Lizzie. I think I'm not saying she didn't deserve an explanation.

I'm just saying that I think that it's very normal. A production is moving so quickly and things change so fast. And John Hughes' directing and he probably just said, hey, Jackie Burch, can you, we've cut her scene. And Jackie Burchard might not have known anything other than we're so sorry they cut the rest of your scenes, so we're moving on. You know what I mean? And so, again, I'm not saying that that's okay, but I just don't, I would guess that's not unusual. And I also don't necessarily think there's a gender aspect to them not telling her either because I think if she was just a random dude that they cut to, in a smaller role, there wouldn't be an explanation. Okay, this industry is terrible.

Keep going. Well, this series of events led us to probably the best what went wrong about this movie. They now need a janitor. And John Hughes was absolutely stoked when none other than Rick Moranus, who Hughes knew and loved from Second City TV, agreed to play the role of Carl the janitor. Oh, my God. Would have been amazing. Not only that, but Moranus was hot off Ghostbusters,

and they thought his name would draw a bigger audience. But things changed quickly. when Moranis showed up on set as a Russian with gold teeth, an odd hat, and a heavy accent. Oh my God, put it in. Absolutely. Keep it all. Keep it all. You're telling me. So as Manning, who is the co-producer, when the Daly's got to L.A., the film's gruff producer, Ned Tannan, couldn't get to the phone fast enough. Oh, I love that. Hughes was like, all right, let's do it, baby. Tannen was like, what the fuck was that? Manning was like,

well, Rick came and that is his interpretation of the janitor. And Tannen was like, no, we're not going to do that. The Russian caricature would pull the audience completely out of what was really a serious movie. Agreed. Manning reported to Hughes that Ned said no, and Hughes was like, well, I can't fire Rick Moranus. And so Manning was like, well, then, I guess I'll have to. Oh, no. And she did.

Good for Manning. Like, very, very, very good decision. Michelle Manning is a hero in this story for sure. Michelle Manning, that is, because I really like the janitor character now in this version, and that would have been so distracting. And so good for Michelle Manning to stand up both to the director and ultimately fire Rick Morfiel. I know, but God, do I wish we could see that. Yeah, I would love to see it.

So he was called on actor John Capellos, who played the fiancé in 16 Candles. And again, I feel like that group was so tightly knit that he knew he could count on. And he came in and John Coppellus does an amazing job like Chris is saying. John Capellos, who could be Elias Cotayas' They look exactly the same. I can see that for sure. He walked in and I was like, Elis Cottaeus. Which means by proxy, he also looks like Christopher Maloney.

Yes, that's true. Yeah. Vaguely. Yeah. There's some, they're part of the Maloneyverse. Yes, there's a transitive property. That's what it is. A few other things that happened before they went to production.

He's made all the cast who weren't still in high school of the five go back to high school in a 21 Drum Street turn of events and spent some time undercover. Judd Nelson went undercover at a local Chicago high school. We're all the kids... Hello, fellow kids. Yeah, we're all the kids.

Like, what's this 26-year-old man doing here? There he convinced teenagers that he was a legitimate student and ended up buying them beer with his quote, pretend. He convinced them he was a legitimate student and they were like, okay, classmate, buy a beer. Sheedy in particular,

had a really unpleasant experience, saying, I felt like I just wanted to be invisible when we were there. It didn't bring back good memories because I wasn't happy in high school. Yeah. I had a good time in high school. I have no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah. So the film was shot at Maine North High School into plain Illinois. The look of the library was perfect, but it was too small. So they built a bigger but nearly identical library in the school's gym, and that's where they shot. Oh, wow.

Yes. So that is a sized up version. Production design. It looks awesome. So they rented the school for $25,000 a week. The set is built, casting is done, and let's get into production. The Breakfast Club started filming March of 1984 and filmed for somewhere around 10 weeks. It was shot in-sequence.

Noted other in-sequence film The Revenant. That's right. So many similarities between. So many frozen nude men dragged across the tunnel of similarities. So if you were to guess, what actor caused some drama. Judd Nelson. It's got to be the 26-year-old man.

Judd Nelson putting out cigarettes on his own forearm. I'm wondering, like, based on his method action. So, yeah, right? Jud was not nice to Molly because of his method approach. In the New York Times article, Ringwald recalls that Nelson would make jokes about blind people, knowing that Ringwald's father was blind. What? He was just trying to get under my skin.

Like Benderd tries to get under Claire's skin. It really didn't. me, but Hughes was extremely protective of me, and it just infuriated him. Ringwald actually said that Judd almost got fired, quote, I think Judd was doing the method actor thing during rehearsals. He was wearing Bender's clothes and trying to annoy me. We ended up having a pow-out, led by Allie. I remember her telling me, we have to get him focused like a laser. I think a bunch of us, including myself, called Hughes and asked him to reconsider, which he did. Reconsidered him? They wanted him to stay. They liked him as John Bender, but he was so method

and he was pissing off Hughes because of how he was treating Molly Ringwald. You know what? God bless the people that are willing to work with the method actors, you know, because it's just, it's a lot. They're great. It's a great product, but no, thank you. So another conflict came up, unintentionally, but made an impression. So John Capellos, who played Carl,

unknowingly created some bad blood between himself and Estevez. Apparently, he was getting really annoyed with the behavior of some of the young actors because they were goofing off and trying to make him laugh on his close-ups and not taking things as seriously as he thought they should. So here's his account. Between takes, I looked at them and I said, you know, you guys would have been great when Martin Sheen was having his heart attack on Apocalypse now. He would have been standing there stuffing pencils up your nose like you are with me and laughing as the guy is probably writhing in pain. And Emilio's face went white. Oh, no. John Hughes comes up to me and goes, Martin Sheen is Emilio Estevez's father. And I didn't know that.

I didn't know that. I apologized, but Estevez never bought it. So in interviews, Capello said that he was so upset over the remark for years that when he appeared on the West Wing, he told Martin Sheen the story. And sheen allegedly thought it was very funny. Oh, no. I feel very bad for John Coppellus. I feel bad for young Amelia O'Svarez.

But also, he looks a lot like his... He looks like he's actually like Martin Sheen. You all would have been shit on apocalypse now when Martin Sheen, who looks just like you? Had a heart attack. Oh, no. I got it. I feel very bad for all parties involved. I've totally done stuff like that.

No, when I make light of people's deaths, it really goes for. Near deaths in that case. Yeah, he's alive. Hughes was very open to improvisation. which was really interesting to learn about. Elephant Titus of the Nuts, Bender's Blonde Woman Joke, Neo-Maxie Zoom, Deweeby, the fist bump at the end.

Those were all improv. Those were all riffed. So there was a lot of improvising and a lot of it stuck in there. But most amazingly, the confession scene was unscripted. Hughes told each actor the general reason for their character having detention, but left the details in the flow to the actors

relying on their chemistry. That's remarkable that they... And watching it, I will say, because I was researching it a bit before I rewatch it. Knowing that watching it, I was like, okay, this feels a little cobbled together. It's sort of the order of events does feel a little bit. But the end product is like one of the most iconic scenes. Good emotional performances. Yeah, the emotional performances.

So the film's editor was legendary film editor, D.D. Allen. She'd done the editing for films like Dog Day Afternoon and Bonnie and Clyde. Dog Day Afternoon is like one of the best edited movies of all time. I actually haven't seen it. That movie is amazing. Nice. You need to go watch that movie, right? I'll go watch that movie.

So John Hughes gave her a lot of credit for making the movie great. She forced them to sit down and really work on making it flow, and they had over a million feet of film to go through. Cinematographer Thomas Deltruth said that that scene, the confession shot, was his favorite shot. He recalled working with the theme in creating a sense of suffocation to give the audience a feel for being in detention. In fact, though, he had helped creating the feeling of suffocation

because you remember how I told you that they built the library set in the gym. Well, it turns out to get the right lighting, they had to use a lot of lights, and this caused extreme heat. The temperatures in that top story where the confession scene took place were between 95 and 110 degrees,

causing heat exhaustion to the point where the cast and crew were falling asleep. Oh, no. In response to this, two ADs were hired just to keep the cast awake. So if they're building it inside of a... So they're effectively using the gymnasium as a sound stage.

They're then building a structure inside of it and they're probably putting the lights between the fake library walls and the real gym walls. So the lights aren't going outside of the gymnasium because then they'd be going through two sets of glass and they can't control it as much. So you've effectively like hot, if it's not ventilated well, you've like hotboxed a gym with 10, 15,000 watt lights. And these are, this is well before LEDs or anything like that. These lights burn hot. Also keep in mind that they have built it up. So they are now at the topmost portion of a very tall structure. And they have built it in the Midwest and it is humid and it is getting stanky up in there.

Oh, yeah. So Ali Sheedy was opposed to the makeover. As she should be. I got to say, that was not an improvement. Well, first of all, not only is it not necessary at all for her character because she's like, it's kind of a weird choice. Like her whole thing is that she is very much herself and she's weird and like that they kind of accept her for that. But then at the very last second, they're like, but what if we make you

hot? And it's weird. And then what they actually do to her is, uh, she looks like she's going to her first communion. It's like, it's worse than that. She looks, like, I can't remember exactly what it is. I can't have you been to a first communion. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. Anyway, they went on with it, but it sounds like there were, Hughes made some concessions and what we saw was not as bad as it could have So he was open to the input. What were they going to do? Put like a giant baby bow on her head? I mean, they already did that.

Like, I don't, it can't get that much worse. Yep. The Bowie quote at the beginning of the movie, that was actually Shidi's idea. She brought that to John Hughes. And he never said anything to about it, to her about it after she showed it to him. But then at the premiere, she saw it. She says it's like one of the happiest moments of her life. Aw.

It is a really cool way to open the movie. And then the movie ends with her makeover, and it's one of the best things that was a little bit of thing in there. Yeah. As a rap gift at the end of production, each cast member took home a piece of the stair banister. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. That's fun. So I, of course, have to mention the song,

Don't You Forget About Me? That song was written by the film's composer, Keith Forsey. Wow. Yeah. I think he came from like a more pop background. I don't think he... I think he was a more pop-oriented composer than film composer, but

he wrote the song that was eventually performed by Simple Minds, and he wrote it with Brian Ferry and Billy Idol in mind as his top options, but neither of them were down. So they ended up going... Simple Minds did a great. Simple Minds did the job.

Simple Minds made the iconic hit that we all know and love. Scottish rockers, Simple Minds. Brian Ferry would have been weird. Yeah. I love Brian Ferry, but that would have been strange. I would have liked the Tears for Fier's version. Sure.

I feel like would have been really good. Yeah. So they really didn't want to do. want to do it because apparently they had a bit of an aversion to doing something that they hadn't written, which I get. Yeah, yeah. They got convinced because of the persistence and enthusiasm of Hughes and Forsey who just like really wanted them to do it.

And I'm sure in the end they were happy they did it because that number reached top 20 in the billboards and stance, you know, as the song for the Breakfast Club. Man, I had no idea. I assumed that was licensed. I had no idea that was written for the movie. No, yeah, it was written for the film. So the film came out to mixed reviews. It debuted at number three in the box office, grossing $45.9 million on its $1 million budget.

So it's still a wild success. Hugely successful. Domestically, $45.9 million and $51.5 million worldwide on a $1 million budget. Eventually, it would be recognized by most as his greatest film. Lizzie disagrees. Lizzie's making that face like Uncle Buck. I think there's several that are better. I like this movie, and I really enjoyed it, but he has made some, I don't, whatever.

I disagree. I think he's made better movies. So in 2016, the Breakfast Club was chosen along with Thelma and Louise to be preserved at the National Film Registry of the Library of Congress. To qualify a film must be at least a decade old and be culturally, historically, historically, or aesthetically significant. I think it certainly clears those standards. Yes, it does.

Let's talk about the legacy of the film a little bit. And this next thing that I'm going to talk about could be a whole episode. It's really interesting. On June 10th, four months after the Breakfast Club premiered, an article came out in New York Magazine entitled Hollywood's Brat Pack, written by journalist David Bloom. The article was originally intended to be about Emilio Estevez, but not long before it came out, Estabez invited Bloom out to the Hard Rock Cafe in L.A., along with Judd Nelson, Rob Lowe, and others who would be in St. Elmo's Fire, which would come out later that month. After observing the behavior, of the group that night, Bloom decided to change the focus of the article. So I might be in the

minority totally here, but I always thought that was like a really cool thing. Like you're part of the brat pack, you know. Yeah. It's this badge of honor. It's this amazing thing that like you'll never be forgotten. But it was not a positive thing for them. I did not know that. I thought the same thing as you. Yeah. So first of all, it paints Emilio as the hero, but as like this entitled brat. Like it kind of describes him as like the most grounded and the most sort of the one with the most perspective, but also totally paints him as a, you know, a party boy who, like, takes advantage of his star status. The way that Bloom describes some of the other members is ruthless. And so here's a couple of snippets. At one point, he's describing select members of the

group in the fashion of, like, senior superolatives. Quote, the overrated one, Judd Nelson, 25, he made his reputation as a hood in making the grade in the breakfast club. And now in St. Elmo's fire he shows with his role as a congressional assistant that he was better off when typecast. Oh, no. The ethnic chair. Nicholas Cage, 21, a nephew of Francis Ford Coppola. Wait, wait. Because he's Italian?

I guess. He changed his famous surname. The pizza pie Italian guy. A nephew of Francis Ford Coppola, he changed his famous surname and took out an eye tooth to play the leading role in Bertie, which made his reputation as an actor. His ethnic looks usually land him the part of brother or best friend. What? Next, not quite there.

The two Matthews, Broderick and Modin. Both are fine actors, Broderick and War Games, and on Broadway, and Modine and Birdie, but both live in New York. The Brat Pack likes them, but doesn't know them. The same goes for Kevin Bacon, 26, the star of Foulouse and Diner. He goes on to criticize all of them for not having had to work hard for what they achieved and calls them out for not having graduated college. When the piece ran, the actress felt really beautiful.

trade, which makes sense because I'm sure they thought, oh, we're inviting this guy out to party. Yeah. It's like the almost famous thing. You know, it's like, oh, like we'll bring him on the road and he'll think we're really cool. And then, sure enough, not super glamorous take on them. Before the article ran, they had been regarded as talented individuals. After the article, all of them were grouped together and regarded as unprofessional. When interviewed for Susanna Gora's 2010 book, you couldn't ignore me if you tried. The Brat Pack, John Hughes, and their impact on a Generation, Bloom admitted that he should not have written the article. Oh.

With the increased negative attention to them, the actors soon stopped socializing with one another. Ali Sheedy later said the article just destroyed it. I had felt truly a part of something, and that guy just blew it to pieces. Oh, man. Well, he should have saved it for the pussy posse, which did deserve everybody's eye when they came a long time. Yeah.

Get behind that. Oh, that sucks. Look it up if you're a fan of Leo. Or don't if you're a fan of Leo. Yeah. Might not be. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry that they didn't stay friends.

it's a bummer. They're so young. Like, that's, that's, that's a tough one. Because I understand, I understand wanting to do that article. I understand, you know, knowing that it's going to do amazing in the press. But, like, that's, they're so young. That's not fair to a lot of them. Yeah, I agree.

So Hughes was definitely considering a sequel to the Breakfast Club. His idea was to pick up with them in their 20s or 30s. That idea was on his mind. Assevez said, John's got an idea for a sequel, mature age students at college all doing time again, for some reason or another. The twist would be that we're all polar opposites of what we were in the original. Whoa. Sounds like National Lampoons, the reunion or whatever the first one was called.

Class reunion. It's not a good thing it didn't get made. Don't do that. As for the actors of the Rexas Club, Sivas obviously went on to beat coach Gordon Bombay and the Mighty Ducks. he really seems to have distanced himself from the breakfast club more than any of the others. You see the others at reunions and stuff, but he did not really talk about it until he directed and started a film called The Public, which came out in 2018, which it was hard to avoid discussing the breakfast club because it takes place all in the library.

Oh, wow. That movie starred Alec Baldwin, Michael K. Williams, Christian Slater, Jenna Malone, Gabrielle Union, Taylor Schilling, and Jeffrey Wright. I hadn't heard of that, but kind of curious. Yeah. Sheedy would go on to have some substance abuse issue. but continued to work steadily. She went on to receive accolades for a role in the 1998 indie film High Art.

She appeared off Broadway and Hedwig in The Angry Inch and appears in a whole bunch of TV, like The Dead Zone and CSI and Psych and a bunch of others. As of 2021, she has been a professor in the theater department at City College and City University of New York. Oh, cool. Anthony Michael Hall starred in Hughes Weird Science the following year. I'm sorry, which came out the same year as the Breakfast Club. He continued to have successful acting career with credits, including Edward Sizzarhands, Entourage, The Dark Night, Fox Catcher, and much, much more.

Also, great cameo in community, the television series where he plays basically the Judd Nelson character from the Breakfast Club in community. Yeah. Like, he wears his exact outfit. He's like the new bully on the community college campus. And he beats up Joe, Joe. Well, to be fair, that actually might be replaying his own character. Everett Sizerhands too. Oh, yeah, that's true.

And he's great. John Nelson continued to work on a bunch of movies within a couple of years of the Breakfast Club. Later on, he would work on New Jack City, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. He's been on a ton of TV, including a leading role in Suddenly Susan, which ran from 1996 to 1999. Molly Ringwald continued with Hughes on Pretty and Pink in 1986, but in 1987, the actress turned down the role.

Hughes had created for her in some kind of wonderful, which there was a tie into Howard the Duck, right? Yes, there is. Yeah. Yeah, it went to Leah Thompson. So Leah Thompson also turned down the role. I'm guessing probably after... And then they came back to her, yeah.

Molly Ringwald, and then she came back and accepted the role after Howard the Duck bombed at the box office. Listen to our episode on Howard the Duck. And that's where Leah Thompson met her husband, Howard Deutsch, who directed some kind of wonderful. Ringwald wanted to do different things. Hughes did not take it well, and they didn't speak for over 20 years.

Wow. Yeah. Eventually Ringwald extended an olive branch to Hughes, writing him toward the end of his life. He responded by sending her an extravagant floral arrangement. She accepted the gesture as closure on their relationship. In the early 90s, Ringwald,

reportedly turned down leading roles in Pretty Woman and Ghost. Wow. That makes sense. Well, I think Demi Moore is a contemporary and I think was sort of on the outskirts of the brat pack as well. Yeah, that makes sense. She moved to Paris in the mid-90s

and began performing in French films. When she did return, she started in TV shows like The Secret Life of the American Teenager, Riverdale, most recently, Dahmer, the Monster, the Jeffrey Dahmer's story. Yeah, she's having a real comeback. And the bear. Oh, we haven't gotten that far yet.

I didn't know she's in that. Cool. So to close, I want to talk about one other scene that I didn't mention earlier that I think Lizzie did allude to. And the article called What About the Breakfast Club that she published in the New Yorker in 2018, Ringwald discusses her experience watching the movie with her 10-year-old daughter and how inappropriate the circumstances surrounding the crotch shower. For those who haven't seen the movie, or don't remember, this is a scene where Bender,

who is under Claire's desk hiding from Vernon looks up her skirt, and it's implied that he tries to go down on her. By the way, they did use a body double for that. That was not a 16-year-old Molly Ringwald, thank God. Ultimately, Claire and Bender end up falling for each other in the notion that this behavior not only went without serious reprimand, but was actually rewarded, does not sit well. Ringwald's article is great, and I don't want to get bogged down recounting it because you should just read it, but at one point she says, quote, it's hard for me to understand how John was able to write with so much sensitivity and also

have such a glaring blind spot. She goes on to recount a lot of Hughes-Lampoon articles, which allegedly was mentioning earlier, and other work which are very problematic as they relate to race, homosexuality, and a bunch of other topics. But she goes on to say the following. How are we meant to feel about art

that we both love and oppose? What if you are in the unusual position of having helped create it? Erasing history is a dangerous road when it comes to art. change is essential, but so too is remembering the past in all of its transgression and barbarism so that we may properly gauge how far we've come and also how far we still need to go. I really like this quote and at risk of overreaching, and we can cut this if you guys want to,

but it made me think of some of the comments and reviews that we've gotten on this podcast where people are commenting on us imposing our PC-ness onto movies, particularly older movies. Sure. Talking about how movies age is a big part of the what went wrong in many of our episodes. In this movie, for example, there are a number of uses of really offensive homophobic terms that we've talked about. Bender suggests closing the door and impregnating Claire. And simultaneously, the insult butt face is issued with the amos sincerity. And smoking weed is talked about like it's a capital offense, and we are left to accept these things as of their time.

Whether it's feeding Judy Garland drugs and cigarettes or whitewashing avatar, the last airbender, or being critical of the depiction of post-Civil War America and Gone with the Wind, these topics are complicated because on one hand, the perpetrators of what we now see as reprehensible behavior are not usually, and I know there are exceptions, trying to be provocative, they are saying things and doing things that in their time and place may have seemed very normal. But on the other hand, we often have counterpoints to these people who seem to be more forward-thinking and willing to stand up for the victims of prejudice and impropriety. I think and hope that on the show, above all else, we're highlighting those individuals for being willing to stand up,

often making big personal sacrifices to do so. Of course, because you guys are the host of the show and you're presenting your points of view, some judgment will come through and opinions will be expressed. But the beauty of examining the what went wrongs is to look at all the different pieces and put a microscope on them, both through the lens of why and how the films were made in their time

and also through the lens of what they mean to us today, given how we've grown culturally, and by doing so, make them feel even more relevant. So when we or you guys talk about these movies, The hope is that our audience appreciates that the opinions expressed are just that opinions. But while we are trying to actively avoid being political, we will be critical because it is part of appreciating the films we discuss and their impact and legacy. Yeah.

I think that's very well said. The thing about this movie that was tough for me was that it created the teen movie as it was for much of our childhood. And so when I had seen this in the past, the things that now stand out to me as teaching particularly young women, something that's very damaging, did not stand out to me. So it was more of kind of like surprise at watching this and not realizing what I had seen and ingested. And to the people that say, you know, like, oh, I hate when they impose their politically correct stances on these older movies. to be honest, and I know I'll get some shit for this, and I'm sure I'll get some shit for what I've said so far in this episode, but I think those people are missing the point. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy the movie. It doesn't mean you can't watch the movie. But I do think it is important to look at a movie like The Breakfast Club and to look at the relationship between Bender and Claire and to go, wow, this was supposed to be romantic.

and to David's point that his behavior was rewarded. In watching it again in 2023 as an adult, it's like it's every red flag you should avoid. But it is behavior that absolutely at that time was considered charming and continued to be so for many, many years. So it is worth rewatching. It is worth examining that. And I don't think there's anything wrong in saying,

hey, our society has changed since this movie was made. and that's a good thing. I have nothing to add. I just want to say that I'm a little frustrated with David for writing a really eloquent explanation of this podcast and kind of stepping on our corner here as the hosts. Like, we didn't say that you could do that, and I was going to do that,

and I don't know, we're going to have to have a conversation after this episode. And David, you did too good a job. You're fired. Yeah. Yeah, honestly, way to fly too close. of the sun there is because I'm about to melt your wings off. I have very little to add. I agree, Lizzie, with everything you just said. And I definitely think part of the reason why I'm able to enjoy this movie more than you,

Lizzie, has to do with the fact that I'm a guy, you know, and it doesn't hit me the same way. Absolutely. Because I noticed all the same things as you. Don't get me wrong. But I didn't dwell on them in the way that you are going to dwell on them. I just think because there were so many similarities in the way that he was. acting to how so many teenage boys did act, which, like, you know, to John Hughes's credit,

that was not an unusual situation. But the fact that what he didn't account for was her discomfort in those situations. And that just shows the sort of lack of awareness that he had, the blind spot, as she pointed out. Yeah. Through his entire career, John Hughes was very minimally involved with the press, generally attributed to the fact that he was the kind of quiet kid that he described himself as, and many people spoke of him as being a very sensitive person. In 1993, after some negative articles were written about him in Spy Magazine, it seems he really faded from the public view, though he would go on to continue writing movies like Miracle on 34th Street, 101 Dalmatians, Home Alone, 3, and Flebber. Unfortunately, John Hughes died on August 5, 2009 from a heart

attack at the age of 59. So, on that downer, but hopefully, um, oh yeah, it's just a downer. I don't, I don't know what else said about that. But we got to, hey, thanks guys. Let's get to the what went rights. Lizzie, you want to kick it off? Sure.

I will go with that song. I had no idea that was written for the movie. It's so good. It's so iconic. and as much as I love Ryan Ferry and his creepy sort of spidery ways, I'm glad it wasn't him. That seems like a big what went, right?

I'm going to throw my shout out to the production design team for this movie. I think they did a great job with the library. And it's such an iconic setting now. It feels like a character in and of itself. And I didn't know it was a build, and I didn't know it was built inside of a gymnasium, which also means they don't have

the same reinforcing structures that you would use to hang things from the ceiling, et cetera, on a sound stage. So kudos to that production design team. Well done. I never would have known. And that fact blew my mind. Yeah. I think I'm going to go with the editing because knowing how much of it was improvised and

how much freedom they had, I think that there was probably a much worse movie that could have been made. Yeah. And the way that she put the pieces together, even though knowing how much improv was in there, maybe you can tell here and there, like, oh, that was maybe a little bit forced or whatever. Overall, it is so impactful. That's such a good point, David, too, because having watched 16 candles, like, this is a much better movie. And I do wonder how much of that is the editing. Because it is, you're right, there could be a totally different movie here.

And there's also not a lot of music relative. too. The score is so interesting. It's like... It's very sparse. It's very weird, but it's very sparse. It's so weird because it's not the score doesn't really have themes. It's just kind of like it hits moments in a very like...

It's like sound effect. It's weird. It's just like bum. It's like when it comes to Allison, it's like this super exotic thing or when it's... When he's in the attic it's like super heist movie. Like it just goes super genre for very, for like 15 seconds. But there's no real through line

to it, but it's effective. Yeah. David. Thanks, David. Thank you so much for hosting this week's episode of What Went Wrong. As always, fans, please send us your recommendations for films that you would like us to cover. We are in the process of putting together our list of films for the next season of what went wrong. And your voice matters now more than it will in the 2024 elections. That's a joke. No, it's true. Lizzie, can you give a shout out? to our full stop supporters, of which there are no longer two. Yes, there are three. We have Tom Christen, Soman Chaynani, and we have Hannah Tripp. Hannah, welcome to the club. And of course, I know you as the person who had an exchange with us via email where you have thrown your name into the ring for whenever we fire Chris, which is imminent.

So welcome. We're thrilled to have you. and sincerely, you're all nuts in the best possible way for giving us that much money. But we love you. Thank you. You're the real MVP. Guys, you can find us on Instagram at What Went Wrong Pod. You can find us via Gmail.

What Went Wrong Pod at Gmail.com. You can find us on Patreon. Patreon.com slash what went wrong podcast. Do not Google search What Went Wrong Patreon. It will just give you help articles for what might be going wrong. on Patreon. As always, next week's episode is going to be the incredible, truly remarkable, one of the kind, trash fire. I can't even describe it, visible from space as mommy dearest. We're so excited. My wife is excited to watch it. Oh, she's not going to be as soon as you started.

That's it for this week's episode, guys. Thank you for taking the time to leave us a rating if you like the show. five stars and a review. I read them. I take them personally. Yeah, Chris gets upset. Let that, let that guide your review in whichever direction it will. We'll see you in two weeks. Goodbye. Bye. Go to patreon.com slash what went wrong podcast to support what went wrong and gain access to bonus episodes, video content, and more. What Went Wrong is a sad boom podcast presented by Lizzie Bassett and Chris Winterbauer. Editing music by David Bowman with cover art from Euthonon us.