What's Your Drama - Accidental Rub and Tugs & Wishful Threesomes

Episode Date: May 30, 2019

Welcome back to What’s Your Drama. As you know, it’s the season finale and we can’t thank you enough for all the love, support and trust that you’ve given us this season. And what better way to end the season than bringing Duana on the show. In truth, she forced her way on, but the woman can give good advice and it ended up being such a fun podcast to record. We hope you love it.On today’s show: Lainey makes us talk about her vagina or as Duana refers to it a “sliced two face mushroom”. Then we get into your drama and boy oh boy did you guys bring it for the last episode. What do you do if your partner wants threesomes but you don’t, is getting off on the massage table considered cheating, and finally, should you change a hard-to-pronounce name to something more generic.We hope you enjoy the show and make sure to send us feedback on twitter at @sasha_tong and @laineygossip and Instagram at @lostandfoundapothecary and @laineygossip. And of course subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Pandora, or anywhere you get your podcasts. And keep your advice questions coming my way at sasha(@)laineygossip.com cause we want to hit the ground running next season!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

hey what's your drama welcome to what's your drama i'm sasha i'm laney and guess who we have today we should know because we actually told you about this last episode she's been harassing us to be on the show relentlessly hi duanna hi duanna hi thanks for having me we uh can't wait for you to give your advice yeah well that's why i was so excited because you guys get to like hear about real people's things and you laugh a lot. I want to be in the hysterical laughter. Okay. Okay. But before that, I want to talk about my pussy. Right? Go on. This is very much what happens here. Oh, listen. I feel free and easy. My mom doesn't listen to this one.

Yeah. Today, by 8 o'clock, I was wearing light wash jeans and by 8 o'clock, I had to change my jeans because I bled through them, which also is a constant topic on this podcast. My period is like the third chair, fourth when you're around. So I had to change into my workout pants. And this particular pair of workout pants are a little camel toe-y. Okay. All workout pants are a bit camel toe-y, but okay. You wore like a legging?

Like workout pants. Yeah. Yeah, okay. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Like tight. And sometimes they're three quarter length and sometimes they're long length.

Right. But I showed up tonight in keeping with you both. I tried to wear casual. No, no, she wore workout. She wore workout. Nobody works out in the pants that she's wearing. No, they're a casual pant. I just didn't know if it was like you were actually trying to work out. Okay, please continue. Okay. Like pants you would actually run in. Okay. And so, of course, I'm like looking at myself in the mirror and I'm like, oh, is it too much all day at work to be walking around with my toe out. So who do I text? Ding, ding, ding, ding. Me. Where are you? At my desk. So then I saunter over and we spent a solid 10 minutes of Sasha staring at my pussy. Yeah. Because she wanted to know if her pussy lips were out. And then I was like, no, they're fine. Like

it's 9.15. I'm drinking my coffee, trying to get to some emails. Like, is there not someone else you could talk to about this? Wait a second. Who else would there be? No, this is a job tailor-made for you. But what happens is this is what she does.

If she wanted to be private, come to my office. No, no, no, no, no. Where are you? I'm going to come to your open concept office and talk to you about if my vagina is out in the open.

Anyway, it was. And what happened? She just pretended like it wasn't an issue. At first you said it wasn't. And then you sat down I jammed them up your vagina so that the pussy lips came out. So anyway, I did a 10-minute demo, like walking, posing, positioning my body in many different

ways. And she was like, yeah, you know. But that, you can't get away with that. Like the pants that Duanna's wearing right now are loose and not really for workout. But when do you not put on a pair of like blue lemons or whatever and not have that happen? These ones are my particularly bad camel toe ones. Well, because they were a light color too.

If you were wearing black, it wouldn't have been a problem. They were like a very bright blue. Anyway, then I had to spend the next half hour looking for a sweatshirt, which I found. So it wasn't a problem. But also, how much lunging and posing are you doing in these clothes at work? Like, it seems like you were doing workout motions at your desk. I actually wasn't doing workout motions. I was just standing.

Sometimes I was standing with my legs like a little far apart. sometimes I would like put my legs together and cross one over the other that was the offending position and then like there was spillover correct yeah yeah sometimes on one side sometimes on both sides that's what we had to navigate I was like oh no it's all over on one side then it was able to move to both right to straddle the scene which you think that would be better the symmetry but then you can't I almost enjoyed the lopsidedness of it I was like who knows what that is My problem is that, like, I wouldn't have cared, but when we're blocking the show and it's full lights in that fucking studio and, like, five cameras at you, I just didn't want

to, you know… Again. She has a full wardrobe as she is the host of two shows that she could just have found a loose pairing, anything. You could have found anything else but those bandits. Like, the turnover right now was low on the pants. I swear to you. But here's what's interesting, though, because when you said all workout pants do that, don't

they? Here's my, like, kind of conspiracy theory. If enough people complained about this, then they wouldn't make them do that. Like, we've all just agreed to have leggings, workout pants look this way. Ergo, do you think that people like it or are otherwise signed on for it to be this way? I do not like it. I don't understand why there needs to be a seam there. But you see what I'm saying.

Like, if people didn't buy those pants with the seam, which we all own, if everybody was like, I'm being sliced into, like, a two-faced mushroom, it's not okay. Right. Like, then they wouldn't make them that way. Or people would work out in shorts the way they did in 80s movies. So we need to fight back. Or just accept that we all want them to be this way is what I'm suggesting. I don't want them to be toe-y, but I do like them for their function.

Like, when I'm working out, they don't move around. Right. And they're not… That seam keeps them not moving around? I like the ones with the seam, not because they cut my pussy into a mushroom or however Duanna wants to say it, is it's because I feel like that seam contributes to, like, a sturdiness to the pant. I should say when I go home, I'm going to put on a pair of leggings from a certain brand

that we're not advertising because we're not advertising. And I'm going to send you both… Will they give us money? I'm going to… Could you advertise? Could you? Then. And I'm going to send you both a picture of my crotch.

And you're going to be like, oh, wow, there's no toe there because there's no seam in the front and they stay up. But have you run around in those? What are they? Yes. No, wait. What are they? First of all, I want to challenge the amount of movement that has been, like, made.

Because your version, like, I've seen the shoes you work out in. No, you've seen the shoes. No, no, no. Yeah, exactly. No? Yeah. She fucking shows up at the gym in, like, basically Keds or, like, Cortez's. Okay, stop.

I know I show up to the gym in L.A. in Cortez's because… Oh, you're so eye-rolling there. because when we go, I don't pack eight suitcases like some people. So you have to conserve some space and I need something to do double duty. It's a different story. What do you real work out in? Like shoe wise? Footwear. I mean, when I'm running, they're also from this brand that I'm a little addicted to. Adidas, Outdoor Voices. Yes. Anyway. Right away, Outdoor Voices is not a performance shoe. Like, there's no way. Fuck the shoe. We're not talking about the shoe. I do yoga in these pants. I've never had a camel toe. I have like six pairs. Because you're telling me

there's no seam down the front. Correct. I've never in my life found a pair that don't have a seam down the front, so I'm very excited. So the whole thing is that they make their pants out of, I think it's 10 panels, so that there isn't a seam in the front. Again, not trying to do an ad. But trust. Well, then. Well, there you go. Listen, we've already had three fights. This is encouraging. I feel real good. Yeah. This is why you're here. We've already had three fights. So let's see what more fights we can get into over the drama we hear today. Yes, please. Ready? Duanna, are you ready? I'm very nervous that there's no pre-read. There's no… I interrogated you guys about the systems. No. This is what happens. Okay.

We're getting right into it. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Ready? Hi, Sasha and Lainey. Hoping I can sneak this in before your season finale. Here's my drama. My boyfriend and I have been together just over a year. This has been my happiest, most mature, I'm late 20s, relationship to date, and I honestly

feel this man could be my life partner. I knew my boyfriend had struggled with monogamy in the past and had only been satisfied in relationships where threesomes involving another female were a regular part of the sex picture. We have previously discussed in detail the idea of threesomes in our relationship But to be honest, I don't think that they're for me And I would not even had considered it if it weren't for him I knew something had been eating at him lately And we had a chat about how he's really struggling with being monogamous

This is the longest he's ever been monogamous And how he's going to seek professional help to discuss If this is something he can work through And if monogamy is something he could ever be satisfied with We both love each other and want to make it work but I can't help feeling this is an irreconcilable difference that can't be overcome. He's reassured me that it's his issue, not mine, and that his difficulty with monogamy has nothing to do with me and our relationship.

That being said, I want to support him the best I can and see if things can work. I'm not ready to give up on our relationship just yet. I guess my question is, am I being blinded by love? Is there a way through this or should I cut my losses now? Am I unreasonable in not being into threesomes, non-monogamy? Are there any compromises that can be made here so we can both win? Thanks so much. You guys are the best.

Okay, so there are four questions here that we have to tackle, okay? Is she being blinded by love? Is there a way through this? Or should she cut her losses now? Is she unreasonable in not being into the things that he's into? And are there any compromises? Let's tackle the first question. Is she being blinded by love?

Let me go around the table Let's ask our guest first Yes Sasha Duanna Is she being blinded by love? I'm gonna say no Not because I don't think

That she's Supposed to be into this But because she's not blinded She can see From writing this letter How not blind she is Okay Sasha

Yeah I think she's being blinded by love And sometimes all I have to do Is like kind of look over at Yasik Just through the corner of my eye To see like Just gauge male perspective He has his head

in his hands and is like, what the fuck is going on? So for me, that really confirms how I feel, which is, well, we can get into it, but you can answer. I say yes, blinded by love. I'm more in line with Duanna in that I don't think she's completely blind. I think that she is, how about the word I would use is crippled by love. Okay. Sure.

Yeah. Handicapped by love. Yeah. Okay. So can we just talk about, I'm curious to know when the mention of monogamy comes up over and over and over. Is it monogamy in the way that he needs to get his fuck on and cheat on her? Or is it monogamy in the way that he wants to have a polyamorous relationship with her?

I'm glad that you asked that because the other part of the letter talks about threesomes a lot. And it sounds as though those threesomes are supposed to involve our letter writer, right? Yes. Which, depending on your definition, is not cheating in the sense that it's not happening behind her back. So to your point, is there other non-monogamy that's supposed to be going on? Does he want something open?

That's what it feels like to me. I mean, that's all we can kind of… we can only rely on our spidey senses here a bit. And the fact that he has to go… most people that I know who are into open relationships, threesomes, they don't feel the necessity to necessarily go to seek therapy for this, thinking like they're bad. The fact that he, I don't know, the term monogamy is just kind of spiking some ideas that like, is he creeping on her on the side and is like trying to build in this threesome as an excuse? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I agree. I think we're all stuck on the vocabulary. Yeah. Like I, because here's the

If it's always what he wants is, hey, once in a while I want to like dick you and someone else at the same time on the same night, I would say, I would rephrase that like that that's his kink. Right. Right. Like, you know, hey, nine out of ten times I want to do it just us. Yeah. But, you know, on the tenth day…

Let's get freaky. Yeah, let's get freaky and invite somebody. Yeah, exactly. It's an extracurricular activity. Yeah. It's a kink. Yeah. I don't think the word monogamy applies to that situation.

Agreed. Right. And it's possible that this is the letter writer's interpretation because the first line that she says about this says something like, he's never been satisfied with being monogamous. Yes. Or he's had problems being monogamous. So, yeah, the kind of mystery around this is does that mean cheating and people finding

out later and being drama about it? Or does it mean I dated people who were into, yeah, opening things up and getting a little creative? Yeah. I think what's interesting too is our writer is also like, I don't want this relationship to end over this. But on the flip side, she's like, I'm not comfortable with doing threesomes. So either way you look at it from my perspective, is this relationship's going to probably fucking end? Because you either try it and realize… Like, I think most people know if they're into something like that or not. Would you agree? Like, I know there's some people who are curious and then they explore that curiosity

and figure out if it's a yay or nay for them. But like someone like me, I relate to the writer because I'm like, that would be a no-fly zone for me. Like, no, no, no, no. I don't know if I agree with that because I think that a lot of people go into like anal being like, fuck, I don't think that would feel good. And then they try it and they're like, fuck, that's mind-blowing. I love it so much.

But that's still with the one partner. But this is… But thing though… Still a sexual barrier that you didn't think you could cross. And once you cross it, you, like, realize that your perspective about it was not right. I beg to differ because I would think experimentation between two people, like, fuck it in my ear, fuck it in my bum hole. Okay, sure.

Like, we can do that because it's just you and me. But having to watch them do it with somebody else is a whole other level. Yeah, but you're there, too, in this scenario. Like, to me, they're… But I don't want to be there. Okay, but that's you. And this is the writer. For her.

so I guess there are three scenarios, right? There's utter monogamy, right? Which is two people and yeah, in your ear and whatever else, but it's only ever… Sorry, I like it when you say that better. Okay, go on. It's only ever two people, right? Then there's the threesome in which we think she's a participant, right? And it's… or that he's proposing she be a participant and she's saying, to your point, I don't think that's for me. And by extension, like, I don't think Like, this is for me if that's what you want. And then there's the sort of this ephemeral other non-monogamy, which maybe she, he, maybe both of them would be fine with being open.

Like, Thursday nights they go out and do whatever. Or, you know, like, there's a difference, I guess, if you are interested in an open relationship between that and polyamory, right? Like, being into a multiple person encounter in one place. Yes. So, you know, I think you could, in theory, one could be not into a threesome, like just be like three's a crowd, but be okay with him going elsewhere. I don't think she sounds like she's down with that either.

Well, I'm just wondering to your point about whether this is his backdoor way of introducing that, right? Like, oh, well, you were okay with that one thing with the threesome, so I thought it would be okay if I met… Well, right. Slippery slope. Slippery slope. Threesome girl over there.

Like, but what I'm wondering is if he's actually using this as a bargaining chip. Oh, okay. You don't want a threesome? No problem. But I'm going out with Cheryl on Thursday nights. Is that cool? Bottom line is, like, do we have anything positive to say? I mean, I think it's great that she really loves him and that they're trying and that

He's trying to, like, work through this anti-monogamy situation he has. For me, I am like… my simple answer is I would end it with him. How long did you say they'd been together? A year. And they're in their 20s. In their late 20s. Yeah. Here's what she wants to know.

We already answered the first question. Is there a way through this or should she cut her losses now? I say cut your losses now. Because if you are like me, writer, and you know that you wouldn't be able to be in a threesome, watch and fuck someone else, and if you also wouldn't ever… Your brain can't go to a place whereby that would be a semi-open relationship, it's not for you. It's not for you.

You're going to get hurt. Should she cut her losses now? Yeah. I think the thing about it that makes me lean that way is that nothing in this is presented as a discussion, right? He's not saying, let's try this. And nor is she like, hey, it would be kind of fun to also sleep with somebody else with him.

So that does kind of lend credence to your point that maybe this is not going to go there for her. But that would be my only caveat is like, have you tried to talk this out? Have you tried to say you might lose me if you don't go down this road? And what happens then? It seems like it's an eventuality and that she's assuming he'll leave. And that's the only part I'm like, okay. Well, I mean, I think, listen, I guess we should have asked this before that.

But her third question is, am I unreasonable in not being into threesomes and non-monogamy? So no, quickly. Absolutely not. Right. No. So are there any compromises that can be made here so we both win? I… Yes.

Talk. Sorry. I think that's all they do is talk about it. But she does say they've talked at length about this and that now he has to go get… He's reassured me that it's his issue, not mine. His difficulty with monogamy has nothing to do with me. And that's a difficult… It's a lot of it's not you, it's me.

And it's as you were hitting on, Duanna, it's like, is there a groundwork that's being laid, right? And also a little bit sinister in the way that he's like, I need to work through this non-monogamy feeling. Do you know what I mean? He obviously, I'm just, I think he's a cheater. What are you saying, Yassic? Yeah, so Yassic's saying she can't change him.

And I agree. Like, I think they're both set in their ways. He wants an open relationship where he can fuck lots of ears and she doesn't want to be a part of that. But wait a second. Wait a second. There are lots of things that exist in relationships, especially when they're only a year old, that people are like, well, this is just how it's going to be.

And then the other person says, I don't think I'm cool with that. And you have a fight and you have several go rounds and then you're like, oh shit, like I don't think I want to lose this over that. So let's see. But neither seem to be budging. What's that? Yeah, but I don't think, but I think we have to think of this like a bathroom habit. Like it's a, it's a, I don't think if it was a discovery of secret cheating, I think

it would be different than what he's asking her for here. But anyway. But neither are budging, right? He wants this. He wants this to be part of the relationship. She doesn't want it to be part of the relationship. Fundamentally, that is going to not do good things for your relationship. Oh, absolutely.

But if the comparable situation, I know there's nothing comparable, but if the comparable situation is, oh, I really want to, I don't know, eat at this restaurant and you really don't. Like, no, you don't do the thing that makes you feel uncomfortable or unsafe, but I don't, like, it's weird, and this is your point earlier, it's weird that the isolation of it's my issue and I'll go to therapy and I'll whatever is not involving her in any way because that's kind of about, well, I don't actually care if you're involved in this or not, right? It's not like they're going to couples therapy so she can get interested or understanding about why he likes this or what could accomplish this without actually living a threesome.

Because I think he's a secret cheater. Well, I think that, like, if he's not a secret cheater, he's going to become one. Like, because this is the sentence that she says, I knew something had been eating at him lately and we had a chat about how he's really struggling with being monogamous. This is the longest he's ever been monogamous and how he's going to seek professional help to discuss if this is something he can work through and if monogamy is something he could ever be satisfied with. I mean, so whatever is eating at him, like he's sitting around basically being, I'm

picturing him being sucky faced and what's wrong? Oh, I just want to have sex with other people. Like that fucking sucks. Or I've had sex with other people and now I need to go to a therapist because I've fucking, this is, I've introduced this into the relationship and she doesn't even fucking know. My partner doesn't know. It's shady.

It's shady, it's shady, it's shady, it's shady, it's shady. All of it is lining up for shadiness. I agree that it doesn't look good. Sorry, letter writer. I guess my difference is that I don't think it's shady in that there's things going on behind her back because I think it's all happening in front of her face. Not yet. No, but look, he says in…

I'm so glad you read it again because she writes that he says, I'm going to go see a therapist to see if I can deal with being monogamous and if I can figure out why I am this way and whatnot. Meaning, if I can't figure it out, tough luck. Like, he's kind of putting the problem on her in that phrasing. It's not, I'm going to go see why I do this. I'm going to go see how I can not do this. It's, I'm going to go see if I can be a different way.

But if I can't, too bad, so sad. That's, sorry, letter writer. But I do think cut your losses. Cut your losses. You're still young and a year relationship. Congrats. And move on. She's not going to cut her losses.

Like, you know, this doesn't sound like… Cut. No, I agree with you. Yeah. She is in love with this person. She wrote to us as a last gasp hope that we might be able to give her some shred, but this is not someone who's ready to leave this guy. So as sad as that is…

Oh, I was hoping that this would help. Yeah. Well, if that's the case… You have a round table here, all who are saying cut your losses. Yeah, but we've also all been in a situation when someone doesn't really want to, isn't ready to leave, they're not going to leave no matter like what you shout in their face. I'm not asking you to do it tomorrow, but I would just, I would keep, I think that we've highlighted some things that maybe she hasn't really thought about consciously.

Like I think subconsciously she's written that and has left us crumbs. I don't think she's picked up on those crumbs, so I'm hoping that we've brought those to the forefront. And so now she's like, oh, right. Yeah, but we're not in her face at night. He is doing his whatever he's doing. Well, and I want to say that from my perspective as a letter listener, it's not actually about the threesome-ing per se.

It's about him saying, this is what I do and if you can't deal with it, dot, dot, dot. Right? If it was him saying, hey, I really want to give money to my second cousin. And she was like, I don't know if I'm comfortable with that. and he was like, well, I'll see if I can deal with not doing that. The kind of ultimatum is the same, right? I'll see if I can change, but if I can't, too bad for you. So it's not to me about the actual extracurricular activity of a threesome per se. It's that he's actually not that willing to change. And that's the really hurtful part about when you've been in a relationship with

somebody that you think you could be with, right? So she didn't give us her name, so I'm just going to call her Marla. Okay. Marla, when you're ready, let us know again and we'll bring Duanna back and we will do a part two for you, but that's where the three of us stand on this. Good luck. This is where, yeah, we're the threesome. Yeah. Okay. From this threesome to your maybe threesome. Okay, next. Hi, Sash and Lainey. I hope you deem this is drama because I am totally conflicted about something that just happened. My friend, let's call her Michelle, is single and she's been going to this masseuse that she raves about.

I'm always up for a good massage, so I booked in with Alex, not really thinking anything of it. But when I showed up, it wasn't Alex a woman, it was Alex a guy. I thought Alex was maybe short for Alexandra. I'm not a prude or anything, but I've never had a male masseuse and had I known, I would have canceled, but it was too late to cancel when I was right in front of him. So I got in, got on the table, and oh my God, it was the best thing that has ever happened to me.

Before I go on, I should tell you I've been married eight years to the love of my life. We have a wonderful life and I'd like to continue to be with him for a lifetime. Of course, with any relationship, we have our dry spells where we don't have a lot of sex because, you know, life. But he's my man, the person I love, he gets me, and I don't want anyone else. So back to the massage table, please, let's. I can't wait. I mean, this is well-crafted letter writing, right?

Building the anticipation. Let me just go over here for a minute. We appreciate this. Thanks for the background. Yep. I can't wait. It was the most sensual and hottest thing ever. Nothing actually happened.

No fingers, no penetration at all. And he was just doing his job, I think, but I couldn't help but feel like we were both really into it. So much so that I actually finished quietly on the table. Hello. Yes. I'm about to finish reading this better. The thing is, he's not some really hot guy, but he has an energy and he knows how to work his hands, girl. I tried my best to hide my physical reaction to it all, but I'm sure he could tell I was enjoying it maybe even too much.

When he was done, he was totally professional as he was the entire time. But my question is, if I go back and I want to go back, is that cheating? Am I doing something wrong? Do I have to tell my husband? What should I do? Thank you and please keep me anonymous. All right. Let's give her a name.

Duanna, this is your job. Oh, well, given the, like, name trickery, I think we should call her Alexa. Yes. Okay. Alexa is happily married. Yep. Went to get a massage for the first time from a man. And got her rocks off.

And, okay, let's do, let's go. I know Duanna would go back. I know, I know she would. Should Alexa go back? Should she tell her husband that she got a happy ending unintentionally? Are you looking at me? Yes. Of course you are.

In order, yes and no. Unless she wants to. Go back, don't tell your husband. Yeah, unless you want to. Yeah, why not? Really? Okay. Okay, so Alexa was very clear with us that nothing untoward happened in the massage that

hid the… Alex did not creep his middle finger up her ass. No, nothing that was off the table to be touched was being touched, which, by the way, Alexa, like, good for you. If you were getting there from some, like, neck rubbing, like, cheers to you. Well done. Um, so it's a physiological reaction. So no, I don't, I don't know why you need to have a conversation about that.

And I don't also think it needs to be a secret. I think if you, I don't know Alexa's marriage, but I think if you go home and say, fuck, I had a great massage. Like, I had a great massage. Like, it was good. I don't know that that is a taboo conversation. Your hands are wrapped up tight. Yeah.

Because you're so tense. Sasha's on the opposite side. Listen. This is amazing. I'm just going to sit here and watch. When I read this, I'm like, fuck yeah, go back. Do your thing. But when I am always giving advice, I want to always think about what I would do if the

situation was reversed. If Corey was having some sensual massage and like fucking splooging on a fucking massage table, I would be… But like spontaneously. Why did I have to picture this? What's wrong with that? he's not he's not like a demon i know okay i just okay i would be fucking furious if he went back why because listen okay we know what massages are about right and if i and and i'm also like

our writer i've never had uh i think i've had one male masseuse but it made me so uncomfortable i thought like he was raping me like it was i didn't like it okay i felt very uncomfortable because what no I didn't no but I'm interested I did I think we need to pause because Jacek is cracking up so hard it's distracting because I've never had when I am a monogamous woman right and if another man is like rubbing my bum or like getting in between my thighs that's like a lot of stuff that I don't need happening while I might enjoy it I feel like that's really personal Okay. So what if you got off from a female masseuse? I would maybe think that it was crossing a line because I just don't know if I should be enjoying

at that level with somebody that's not my partner. That's where I'm at with that. Because clearly, like it's not like I would have stopped it happening in that moment, but I would have to realize, will I go back to that knowing what, how that's going to make me feel. And if there was this chemistry, right? Like she says she felt chemistry, like there was something going on between the two of them. Okay. First of all, she was in her head. Like, can we just, like Alex is very, have you ever had, okay, wait, have you ever had a male masseuse? Many times. I've never like, you've never felt it too like, oh my God, he's like rubbing like under my boobs. First of all, you know me, like I'm there and then it just never sneaks up on me. Really?

Never. Okay. You, Joanna, have you had a male masseuse? Yeah. And it was like all just playbook kind of stuff. It didn't feel like, oh, this guy is literally running his hand up my inner thigh. Not because this guy is… No.

Like, there's general, like, human touch on your body is always like a bit like, oh, neat, weird, cool. But not male, female, whatever, pool jet. Like, I don't think it is… I don't… Yeah, I agree with you that I think she was in her head, especially because not to get graphic, but Alexa was real specific about nobody's hands being anywhere that they shouldn't have been.

Ergo, I think this was all fantasy and like muscle tension and essentially she did this to herself because of the chargedness of the situation. When I even get massages by women, I'm like, this is actually kind of erotic. Like… A hundred percent. But isn't that kind of the point? Oh, sure, but like sometimes it's like… What massages are you people getting?

I'm getting… Okay, let's be clear. So no. There's two kinds of massages, right? Deep tissue. One time I woke up and I couldn't turn my neck past like 45 degrees and I was in exquisite pain and I went to a like sports medical place and they were working on me and it was a woman And the place that they found that ultimately made my neck work again was under my arm.

Not sexy, not erotic, right? But? When you go to a spa, they take great pains to make the waterfall sounds and the oil smells and the, like, whatever. Is it going to help your muscles? Not necessarily. It's a mood. It's a… basically, you're paying $200 to relax.

A thousand percent. Right. And whatever you do with your mind in that relaxing time is up to you. So we're just saying, see, this is where I differ. I don't think it was all in her head. I think that there was some spark happening between the two of them. Like, I think, listen, if you're fucking like silently coming, I'm pretty sure the jig is up. The dude knows that whatever he's doing is like kind of exciting you.

And he's not like, hey, oh, lady, I'm going to take my hands off. he is continually like, yeah, fuck. Totally disagree. Oh my God. Totally disagree. Listen. What do you think then? I think her friend Michelle referred her to Alex. Like Michelle's like, I got a really great massage. You're going to get to really make great massage. I think Alexa, Alexa has never been massaged by a man. So right off the get, we've opened the door and she's like, oh, it's a dude. Already her like molecules are differently charged. She's already in a different headspace. Then you go on the table. Then the massage happens. Remember, she's already in a space where she's like, oh my God, this is a guy. I've never had a guy touch

me like this before. And I'm naked. And I'm naked. Whatever. She's already taking herself to different places even before Alex has done his job. That's why both Duann and I feel like this is all, sorry, Alexa, this is all in your head. Alex was not participating. As a person who is like built of concrete in those situations, if that was happening to me, I would be so locked up. Like, oh my God, there's a guy touching me. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. This is so fucking uncomfortable. There was no way that I would be like, oh yeah, fucking turn on the fucking porn music. Let me ride this one out by myself. But that's you.

Well, I have to somehow like pull some empathy from this or at least like find some commonality. And I'm thinking chick is like as wound up as I am who didn't think she was going to get a male masseuse. Typically, you would freak out. You'd be like uncomfortable, uncomfortable, always touching me in that spot. No, I think in that situation, it's the classic like, you know, never been kissed or never had a drink. And the first time you have the drink, you fucking bomb back all the drinks and you don't know how to like ease your way into it. Okay.

Have we not ever been in this situation when you're not naked? You know, when you walk into like, I don't know, the new dentist or the, like you see a guy on the streetcar and you're essentially having like an eye affair and everybody's clothes are on and it's the middle of winter on your morning commute, but you're like, Jesus Christ. Things are happening. Right? No. But okay. I'm with you on this one. Fine. This happens to you. You have eye affairs on the TTC. I don't know this. How is this helping your case? Because like there's no… Alex wasn't eye… like finger fucking her. No. My point is if I see a hot dude on the streetcar… Oh, you're going to create a fantasy. …and I get super excited… Yes.

Right? Even if the streetcar dude is in it with me. Even if I both know… Yeah. Even if we both know that this is happening and then he gets off one stop before me, right? If I'm super into that and super hot afterwards, is that a cheating? Is that a confession? No. The same event happens. I think there's different when there's hands on you and you're wearing like a little paper thong. Okay. So, Duanna thinks that she can go back. Because of course Duanna wants to do that. But wait a minute. What? How is it about what Duanna wants? I'm saying I think it's… I think it's fine. I do.

Okay. And I also think that if your relationship is the way you say it is, like, there's nothing untoward about what she described, so I don't know why confessing is an issue. Would you confess if it was a happy ending parlor? Like, you mean… Like a rub and tug. If somebody got up close and personal? Yes.

Because this is… This, for me, is the same as, like, Kama Sutra, right? Where you stare at each other and you just fucking… Is that what it's called, Kama Sutra? Do you mean tantric sex? That's what I meant. Tantric sex. Like, you just, like, look at each other and you fucking get riled up.

I feel like this is sort of the same thing. I mean, she… Sure, there's no penetration, but it's like a phantom rub and tug. So, are we okay with a phantom rub and tug situation? 100%. Okay. You, Lainey. You're going back.

I don't know if I'm okay with… Like, that is a really interesting point that you brought up. Because whether or not Alex the masseur, it's a masseur. Yeah, I think so. Alex the masseur intended to get Alexa off. It happened. Yes. So, for all intents and purposes, that spa for her now is a rub and tug.

So, that's a really… So, I actually don't think that Alex did anything wrong. I'm with you on that. But, yeah, like, it's now a rub and tug, so should Alexa go back is the question. You're saying yes. Sasha's saying no. I'm saying… Listen, I think that Alexa should go back one more time.

And here's… Alexa, here's what you need to answer for yourself. If you go back, are you going to strategically turn onto your back and splay your legs and be like, over here really hurts, and point to the inside of your thigh? Because if you do, then you know, no go back for the third time. I can answer that without being Alexa. I'm not the phantom person who sent this in. But no, because part of the reason this all worked out for Alexa is because, as you pointed

out, there was the element of surprise and, like, shock. It's not going to go down the same way, especially if Alex is keeping everything on the up and up. This isn't a rub and tug, right? So I think this is a bit of a golden gift. But then Alex would report her. For what? If she turned around on her back and she was like, oh, like an inch away from my pussy,

it hurts. And Alex would be like, ma'am. How about if she doesn't do that? How about if she's not pointing to zones of- And Alex just does his job. And it's just as good. Then she knows that everything is in her head and she can keep enjoying her own personal private fantasy.

A hundred percent agree, because otherwise we are confessing to cheating every time we watch like, I don't know, a hot dude on television or like… Television is different than real life. Like having someone else's actual hands on you is different than like picturing like who do you like… But you can get turned on by like taking your sandwich from the sandwich guy if he's got good hands and he touches you the right way. It's not about the nudity.

Okay, Joanna, like now you're taking it a step too far. I'm not going to, like, pay for my tuna sandwich and then come. Exactly. I'm just saying. If what we're talking about is, like, chemistry and there was a vibe and whatever, it doesn't matter where and when you met them. Okay. Duanna's going back.

I'm not. Lainey says go one more time. Yeah. I say go one more time. And I also would like to say that, Alexa, if you've just discovered that massage rooms are your thing, there is a heading for massage rooms at the porn sites. Like, at Pornhub, there are categories, and one of the categories is massage. Oh, you watch people get massages.

Fuck, my favorite, one of my go-tos, and has been for years, is there's this guy who gives, like, yes, a rub and tug situation, and he's so fucking hot, he's like a Viking god. You know who he looks like? He looks like Yvonne Drago from Rocky IV. Oh. Yeah. What's the guy's name? I just know him as Yvonne Drago.

I just know Drago. I know who you mean. Yeah. but like in the rocky four days. Yeah. Can I just show you? Okay. Why don't you carry on while I pull up the, whatever.

Yeah. Like I'm just going to show you and I'm wondering if I should recommend it to Alexa. I think you should. This feels like a good alternative. I would say don't go back and watch this Drago Pornhub thing. Yeah. Well, but I think the elephant in the room and the reason we are having such a spirited discussion is because this is probably an appealing fantasy to a lot of people.

So I think that your link that you're pulling up could probably be helpful to a lot of listeners who haven't met their own Alex, but like the idea of this situation. Also, I should say this is, I feel like this is a storyline that's come up a few times like in Alexis' letter, but also like on a few shows recently. And so either this is a common fantasy for people or it's happening more than we think. Oh my God, I found it. Perfect timing. Okay, I'll just turn the volume off.

I just want you guys to see this guy. He's so fucking hot. No, I'm into it. Let's see it. Look how hot he is. Oh, my God. Okay, this is… Can you say hot he is?

I mean, it's not your type because he's not Tom Selleck, Duanna, but you can appreciate that most of us… He's not 87 years old. No, it's that the hair is too clean, but, like, she's hot. I like all the casuals. I'm not talking about her. No, but I like the whole scenario. She's the stand-in for me.

I, did you see his face? Did you see his face? No, his hair was too short. Okay. You'll link to this. Let's move on, but you link to this. Okay. Well, I just, did you see his face though? Uh, I, I saw enough that I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Hot. Right. Anyway. Um, okay. Did we land on anything? Oh, two against one. Right. I'm glad that we're doing this this way. This always feels like a non-bullying fucking environment. Great. Two against one. Continue. you. Okay. I just want to know before we move on, if your answer, Sasha, would change if it was a female massage therapist. I have to think about that. Yes. My answer remains the same. Okay. Like if Alex was also Alexa and Alexa got off on Alex's hands or…

Alexandra or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Last question. Hey, Sasha and Lainey, I'm a 31-year-old Indian American female with an unpronounceable name for 99% of the people in the U.S. Therefore, I'm thinking about going by the name Katie for work and dating. Oh, Duanna, talk about something tailored for you. This one's for you. Two, studies show ethnic names face obstacles just getting a job interview and I want the next step in my career to go well.

Three, I'm online dating and I don't want men to not match with me based off my name and any assumptions related to that. How do I go about doing this for career and dating success? Like, do I change my LinkedIn name? Do I start testing Katie in other settings, etc.? I'd love your input and advice on this question as you're both Asian with white names. P.S. It's already my Starbucks name, but I haven't used it in other settings.

Thanks. And we will keep her name anonymous, but, Duanna, this is her name. Okay. Okay. Well, do. I mean, take it away. This one was for you. I've been saving it for you.

It sounds like she's already decided. Like, her questions are, how do I go about doing this for career and dating success? How do I change my LinkedIn name? Do I start testing Katie in other settings? So, anyway, carry on. But that doesn't mean we can't change her mind. Go on. Well, no, I don't want to be…

I have some very big opinions on these topics, but I want to hear what you guys would say because this is… She wrote to you and she had great points for writing to you both about, as she said, women who are Asian with generally accepted North American friendly names? I mean, for me, it's not a concern. I worry that this isn't a choice that she wants to make, but is a choice that she feels that she has to make. And that is worrisome for me because I don't like the idea that we have to whitewash ourselves in order to get jobs, in order to have a man feel attracted to us. But that makes me feel a bit like sad that that would be the

case. So for me, that's why I was saying I hope that we can. I don't know if she's open to not changing her name or at least changing her name to something that still has Indian American roots so that at least she can still stay true to that. Like if it's a situation where she's like, I fucking hate my name. I've always hated my name. I want to change it. Of course that is a-okay. But if you're changing it because you feel like you need to conform, that's where I have a little bit of like, ooh, don't do that. Don't do that. Think about that a bit more before you go and start being Katie. I hear what you're saying that no person has ever pronounced your name correctly, or 99% of Americans, right?

She said, I will say that 99% of Canadians and people who've met Jacek have never pronounced his name correctly. In fact, the way I'm pronouncing his name is incorrect. You two have known him for years. You have never pronounced his name correctly because the correct pronunciation, the correct pronunciation of his name is Polish and it's Jacek. But he… Well, actually, because I listened when I met his mother.

It's Jacek. Yes. Thank you, Polish Joanna. Like, okay. You have to trump your fucking ass on that one. I anglicize my Polish, but fine. And so he actually just goes around, because he can't be bothered, he just goes around calling himself Jacek, and it just, you know, he doesn't, like, I don't think he…

He doesn't want to be bothered by, like, saying, hi, my name is Yatsik. And everybody, like… So he just makes it as easy as possible. And that's how he has gone about it. Although, when sometimes he goes to Starbucks or orders something, he'll go by his middle name. Very easy. Adam.

In order not to, like, cause any drama. My father was born only with a Chinese name. His Chinese name I'll spell it And then we'll say it Is F-U-K-L-I-T Fooklit Yeah

So his name is Fooklit And what's my dad's name? Fookwa Which is Which would be fuckwa Which is Yeah Same same

Which is Yasik's favorite thing Every time I bring up My dad's real name Fooklit He laughs And he's laughing now That's why our stupid writer Is fucking fighting

Shit heads like you Yasik Right Exactly Exactly. And my dad changed his name. Well, not didn't change his name. He gave himself an English name. So his name is Bernard, F-U-K-L-I-T, Louis. So, I mean, I get from both sides. Like, to your point, like, I hear what you're saying that we don't want to feed into all of these things. But like, you know, my dad, even in 2019, couldn't go by fucklet. Right?

Yes. Yeah. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. Hey, nice to meet you. What's your name? Fucklet. Which is kind of… I'm actually okay with that, though. Okay, I know what you're saying. Fuck you.

I know you're okay with it, but imagine going out in life. Yes, yes. But there's all those different things, right? Like, Keanu Reeves was going to change his name to, what was it, like, Chuck Spadina because he… No one could fucking pronounce his name, and it wasn't Hollywood enough. Oprah's name is, what, Oropa, right? Well, no, that's different.

Oprah is Oprah, but the actual name in the Bible that she was supposed to be named after It was Orpah, but somebody spelled it wrong. Oh, okay. So her real name was always Oprah. That's right. Fuck you. Anyway. Why did we invite her again?

I don't know. Okay, go. But so… Okay, fine. You launched in. You made us talk. Now you talk. Okay.

So I should say that, as you said, the letter writer included her birth name, but, you know, it's not necessarily to be broadcast, but it is a name that appears to be two syllables or maybe three. Not that complicated. It's a four-letter name. And do you know how to say it properly? No, I don't. I could make an educated guess, but I don't want to say for sure I've run into that name a million times. That would be a lie. Yeah. I do want to start off with something that Uzo Aduba's mother said to her. Uzo Aduba, of course, is on Orange is the New Black. And her mother said to her, if they, meaning the, you know, the average white North American, if they can learn to pronounce Tchaikovsky, they can learn to pronounce Uzo. It's not that

difficult. Sounds themselves are not that difficult. And especially where online dating is concerned, you know, I know from like the swiping and whatnot, people are going to see your face, which is also a part of who you are. They're going to get to know you, which is also a part of who you are. I don't think that it's an accident that you chose Katie, which is sort of a very stereotypical, blonde, cheerleader-y, all-American name, but no name that you can choose is going to shield you from all the rest of the cultural work that is coming at you, explaining how you grew up and what it's like to be other in a North American society. No matter what your name is, you're still going to have to do that work and to answer those questions.

And I think Mindy Kaling has spoken to this quite a bit, right? That her name is Mindy and that's a very understood thing. And I actually think it's one of the reasons that she has had such widespread acceptance is that people who didn't know what she looked like would be like, oh yeah, I heard about that Mindy Kaling, but it doesn't take away all the experiences she's had of being a child of Indian immigrants. That said, I, so I just want to be clear that there's a difference between taking on a name that is arguably easier than Foklit or whatnot, and taking on a name that you think is going to imbue you with just overall easiness. And I think you are actually putting too much expectation on a name. And that's coming from me. I do talk about names a lot, but…

You are the name therapist. I am. But I don't think that calling yourself Katie is going to protect you from micro… I don't think that calling yourself Katie is going to protect you from microaggressions in the office break room. I don't think it's going to stop anybody that you meet on a dating app from asking ignorant questions that, or being curious or whatever. I'm not trying to say that everybody is obnoxious, but I'm not sure what you are protecting yourself from by taking on a name like this. If you want to take a half measure, if you want to, for example, put your resume on LinkedIn with just your first initial or your first two initials, because people do that

sometimes, right? If you're BL Prescott or whatever, by all means. And if you want to use a nickname for your name, I think that's fine too. My sister does something… and I think you can play with, like… I don't want to be like, have fun with your name, but you kind of can. Like, my sister's name is Zaya. No one ever fucking pronounces it right. But whenever she signs something or she has to, like, do a talk or something, she always

goes, Zaya rhymes with papaya. Like, so that you can get it. And I have that a lot in my emails through work. Like, lots of people will phonetically do something so that I can, when I give them a call back, that I know how to pronounce their name properly. Like, it's not hard to educate people on how to say your name correctly. Do you know what I mean? Like, just sound it out.

But it can be exhausting. It is a sort of small version of why do I always have to educate people? Why do I always have to be the one who's taking on this fight, right? I agree. And I say this as somebody whose name is much more other than my facial presentation might suggest. But I do think that you should do whatever it is that feels right to you. And if you really feel like this is something you want, to your point, and when you were

things, if you've always dreamed of changing your name, that's different. But I don't think that taking on a traditionally North American name is going to make you feel any easier in a situation. It's not going to make you Katie Couric just because you have that sort of bubbly name and suddenly make all the issues that you're having with meeting people or resumes suddenly ebb away. Yeah. And yeah, I love unusual names and I love cultural names. So for my sake, I hope that you keep it. But if not, I would just remind you that no matter what you choose to call yourself and no matter what resume you submit, you're still going to show up on the day and be the person you've always been. Yeah. Oh, so well said. So we're not answering

the questions, how does she go about fixing on LinkedIn? I mean, like… She did. Initials are always really good. Yeah, I think that's my thing is go by initials. That also helps if you don't have a photo for you not to be selected out by your sex or gender, which is also deeply illegal. But anyway. So, but I mean, my point is we're not going with Katie. Look, I don't think Katie is going to serve her as well as she thinks it will.

If she, again, if she had written and said, I always loved Katie, I always loved, you know, that name and from books and whatever, then it's a slightly different scenario. But I would suggest that our letter writer has grown up as herself and isn't going to find that name quite as easy to just shrug on for her purposes as she thinks. Great. I really agree with that. Thank you for the name therapy. Yeah.

Thanks for saving me that letter. Yeah. Thank you for coming on this podcast. Is that it? Is that all? Yeah. This was such a great way, though, to end the season finale. It was.

Duanna, thank you for joining us and for sharing your always contrarian opinions. I agreed with you twice, I think. Thank you so much for having me and for letting me talk about theoretical cheating and labia divisions. So that wraps up our season. Lainey, I hope that we will continue to be friends, even though I won't be here every week. But continue to send your questions to me at Sasha at LaineyGossip.com.

I will want to, um, stockpile them so that we are ready for when we come back, which will be soon. Um, and definitely subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts, leave, leave comments and reviews. Let us know how you think Duanna did. Um. And also like, don't you want me to be on Show Your Work? Can you imagine I'd be able to contribute zero?

Uh, no. Like when you have something on like, um, like teen drama, you would have lots to say. I actually don't want to come on Show Your Work. to be quite honest but thank you for listening and thank you for all the support

this season bye bye Thank you.