What's Your Drama - One Uppers & Flirting to Get Friends

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

Kathleen joins us this week to help us solve your drama including what to do with a friend who tries to one up you at every turn, how to make new girlfriends when you're surrounded by bros, and whether or not you can still have your core group of friends but still be in a different place mentally and physically. We hope you enjoy the show and now that we are back I need you to start sending me all your DRAMA! So keep your advice questions coming my way at [e-mail].  We also love hearing from you to be sure to send us feedback on twitter at @sasha_tong and @laineygossip and Instagram at @lostandfoundapothecary and @laineygossip. And of course subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure to leave feedback and comments because it helps others find our show! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

So I've been in this situation. Which one are you? Are you the friend that gets mad at other people for not hanging out? Which one am I? How dare you? Hi, this is Lainey. I'm a nosy gossip who gossips at laineygossip.com. You sound very unhappy about that. Am I introducing myself that way? Yeah. Hi, I'm Sasha, and I give advice that you may or may not want to take. And this is What's Your Drama?

Welcome. We have a special guest this week. We sure do. It's our friend Kathleen Newman-Bremang. Yes. Hi, everyone. This is a dream come true, right? This is.

I've been trying to get on this podcast for years. Okay. I've been refraining from being like who I got to fuck to get on this podcast. Well, luckily you didn't have to fuck anybody. You haven't fucked anyone. I didn't have to. But I would have. I would have.

I didn't know that was on the table. It's amazing that you're here because we have two polar opposites. Just before we started recording, Kathleen was taking selfies and being like super vain. Correct. Correct. correct. Sasha abhors the thirst, um, the social media thirst that you exhibit Kathleen daily routinely. Um, so we're going to have a clash of, um, we're going to have a clash of perspectives here. Oh, that's where we're going. No. Okay. I'm going in a different place later, but you

want us to fight right off the bat. Correct. Okay. Yeah. And I will, well, I don't understand your lack of thirst. Here we go. Here we go. One of the most beautiful humans I've ever encountered in my life. No, truly. Like, she's hot. She's hot. Look, my palms are sweating. This isn't where I want it to go.

Yeah, exactly. Great, great, great, great. I guess this is why you don't like putting pictures of yourself online, but I'm just saying that you should more. Okay, I don't want, but she also judges,

like, oh my God, these people who are, like, in their bikinis on Instagram. Okay, I don't do that. Yeah, see, that's the thing. Kathleen is just showing me how busy she is, and I am good.

I'm busy, busy, and her accolades and her outfits. At least there's some sort of, like, rhyme or reason to it what are you trying to say about me sometimes you just show me how pretty but i appreciate that it's always the tagline or whatever the line is it's just like i feel very vain today so i get like as long as people are honest my biggest thing that i've always said is when people are like they're posting a bikini shot and they're like you guys i just wanted to

let you know that sometimes it's tough out there and like just keep your head like bullshit stuff like that just so that you can like show me your ass I fucking hate right what about your four Yasik has Yasik has tried to insert himself already Yasik we've been talking for 65 seconds Yasik and then Yasik so Yasik's trying to be like Sasha well you we just took pictures and you told me to delete some I'm not saying that like I want to be ugly all the time I just don't like if I'm gonna have a picture I want it to be nice yeah photo approval is necessary whether you like social media or not. I agree with that.

Yes, absolutely. Give me a fucking break. Also, he takes the worst pictures. The fucking worst pictures. He just took one, my eyes were closed. He took another one, Sasha's eyes were closed.

Then the third one, he said, Lainey, you look mad. Like, what are you doing? But also, after he takes them, he's like, this one's great.

The one with your eyes closed, for example. This one's good. This one's great. Anyway, Kathleen, congratulations on what's your drama wants to congratulate you

on your engagement. Oh, yes. It's a couple months old. It is, yeah. I've done a lot of interesting things since then, but thank you. Yeah. Well, the reason we talk about,

a lot of people write to us and ask us our advice about their wedding or whether or not they should go to a wedding or not go to a wedding or what to wear to a wedding or whatever. You are planning a wedding. Yeah. I hate every second of it.

Kathleen is determined that she wants to not have to plan her wedding. She's the anti-Brazilia. Yeah. I hate it. so much. I'm like 95% locked down on a venue. And the 95% is that I just want it to be over with. I'm just like, fine, fine. Let's fricking book it. I'm done. But do you anticipate any drama with like anybody, any friends, any family members?

Oh yeah. So there's, I've already told Lainey about this, but I don't even, I can't even talk about this. Can I talk about it? I don't think I can talk about it. It's just bridesmaid drama. And who I choose to be a bridesmaid and not, there's drama there. Oh, well, it's at Sasha at LadyGossip.com. You can send anonymous emails there. We can read it next week. But I also think it's really interesting because I agree. She's like completely not interested when we talk about the wedding. Everything she says is like, oh, I just want to do that. But she's also a producer. Yeah. So there's a really, I think that there's a really interesting relationship between you not caring or wanting to get it over with, but also your, like, producer DNA

that you're not going to let it totally slide because you have to produce the fuck out of everything. Exactly. Like, I think, yes, exactly. I'm going to produce the shit out of it if I have to, but because I'm going to have to produce the shit out of it is why I don't want to do it. Like, I do that for a living, right? Like, I write and produce and organize things for my life.

So in my personal life, like I am the friend that's like, where do I show up? I'll be there 10 minutes late. Everyone else do this for me. Yeah. Yes. Because in my professional life, I have that shit locked down. Yeah. And so this like wedding is a professional thing that's also kind of personal.

And it's just, I just don't want to do it. I just want to show up. But I just, I'm also not rich enough. I am not rich enough to just show up and have someone else do everything for me. Well, welcome to marriage, Kathleen. It's a joy. I'm excited for it. Yeah, I'm good at bickering, so whatever.

We routinely spend time on this show making fun of our husbands. So we look forward to welcoming you back so that you can add your voice to that conversation. Can I just interrupt for a second? Yeah. Did you get the tweet that I added you at last week and you didn't fucking even acknowledge that it was there? I'm sorry, what tweet? So I thought it would get your attention because that's something to do with Michael B. Jordan.

What? And it was a split screen between how Michael B. Jordan and Steve Harvey look the same. What? And you didn't even care. Okay. I did not see this. Okay. Clearly.

Okay. And Michael B. Jordan and Steve Harvey do not look the same. They do. They do. They do not. You're being racist right now. No. Not all black men look the same.

No, I'm not being racist. let me show you the same mustache and teeth that are and teeth that is Michael B. Jordan yes

love of my life hello to my future husband this picture I'm gonna find my second husband I'm gonna be finding the exact screenshot

that it was look at the mustache and the teeth for Michael B. Jordan and Steve Harvey what is this picture of Steve Harvey that is the worst one

that I picked but that he is shirtless is Michael B. Jordan's face Sasha just showed me a shirtless picture of Steve Harvey I don't want to see that anymore.

And he's all oiled up. He's like fucking loose. I need to find a split screen. Look at this. Look. Okay. I'm traumatized from shirtless Steve Harvey stuff. This isn't fair to our listeners because I'm just showing pictures, but I'll put that tweet

in this post so that people can understand. Embed the tweet. I will. Okay. I'm sorry I missed it. Okay. That's all I wanted. Then now we can move on.

Now my pettiness is gone. But also, no, now my pettiness is coming back up because you're always fucking criticizing the Instagram generation for getting bad when people don't follow them or unfollow them or don't like their posts. And now you're like calling out Kathleen for not responding to your tweet. Kathleen, I feel like, is on Twitter frequently. I'm on Twitter a lot, yes. Yeah, and I'm going to like give love to the people that I tweet to, which is nobody.

And if I, at Kathleen, fucking acknowledge my existence, maybe. All right. I'm really sorry. I would. Usually I do. Okay. People listening who tweet me probably, like, I usually respond. Yeah, you even respond to people that are assholes.

So I thought I would be under that department. All right. I'm sorry. Next time I will. Just saying, Sasha, I don't think that you can say that people are too sensitive on social media anymore. You're trying to stoke some weird fighting fire. Move on.

That is my natural state. I know. Okay. Are we ready? Kathleen, are you ready? to listen to other people's drama? I am so ready and usually I'm the one asking for advice, but I think that makes me good at this.

Okay, okay. I think that's going to make me good at this. Okay, let's see. Let's see. Okay. Ready? Okay. Hi, Sasha Laney, long-time listener.

Oh, no. Long-time reader and new listener, but I've been devouring episodes daily. Thank you very much. So, would love to hear your take on a current friendship situation I have going on. I have a longtime friend, let's call him M, who has been a constant in my life for 13 years and has been there for me for ups and some serious downs. I truly do cherish him as a friend. I care about him and I'm thankful for him and everything he's done for me.

For context, I should mention I'm a straight woman and he's a gay man and there's no romantic connection here. Within the last two years or so, I've noticed that this relationship brings me a lot of anxiety and I've had to think a lot about why that's happening. One thing I landed on is that I often feel trapped into spending time with him rather than it being an organic thing. He'll ask me at 7.30 a.m. if I'm available for dinner that night. And if I say no to plans, because hello, it's 7.30 and I have no idea who I will be come

6 p.m., and end up grabbing drinks with other friends or otherwise out, not chained to my couch in my apartment because I said I didn't want to do anything 12 hours prior, I get some passive-aggressive bullshit the next day because he saw something on someone's Instagram. I try to explain that it wasn't a planned thing, but nevertheless, I'm left feeling like I did something wrong. It's led me to a place where every time he asks me what I'm doing tonight or this weekend, it brings an instant pit in my stomach and I feel like I have to lie. Which brings me to my next point. I also feel anxiety while hanging out with him. I've noticed that he's constantly one-upping and lately seems completely unable to be involved in a conversation

without bringing the point back to himself. It's gotten to a point where it almost feels like performative, like Instagram in real life. A mutual friend has called it peacocking. This all came to a head recently when my mother had a serious health scare. And after weeks of thinking she would only have two to three months to live, which this turned out not to be the case, thank Blue Ivy and the twins. I like you already. Love her. I reached out to catch up with him and talk about what I had been through. He knows my mom has been there to talk about her cancer in previous years. He responded, literally I'm quoting here, oh my God, that's so great. Sorry you've been dealing with that. Beat. And while we're down this road, my uncle just had

surgery followed by a full-blown detailing of his uncle's health issues. Like what? Did you just one-up on me on family health? Am I fucking crazy here for feeling like he's turning into a narcissist? His behavior has been noticed by my group of friends to the point where I know he's become a joke among the group, although they hide it when I'm around. I'm not around out of respect. I'm at a loss. I love him, but I don't know how I feel about him anymore. Plus, I'm feeling protective of him becoming a joke and I want to help to see that he doesn't need to put on a show and try to be someone he's not to have value. What do I do?

Hearing your thoughts would be much appreciated. Thanks. S. Okay. So. I've been in this situation. Oh. Which one are you?

Are you the friend that gets mad at other people for not hanging out or? Which one am I? How dare you? Oh, that was funny. I am the. Your letter writer. I am S, the letter writer. I say this because when Kathleen found out that I was going to to Celine Dion the other night

she and this is what happens why wasn't I invited where was I oh I am that person I'm the FOMO friend that's like invite me everywhere take me to everything yes this is different okay I have been the friend who is what like the other friend is one-upping you you don't you feel anxious hanging out with them you don't want to be around them all the other all your other friends are like this is not a good person, a healthy person in your life, and you're still trying to make this friendship work. And I don't, like, logically, I want to be like, break up with this guy. Like, he's not worth your time. That's not a good friend to you. If you're unloading all the stuff about your mom's health, and he can't even like receive that and ask you follow up questions and be there

for you, that's not a friend. But I've been there. Like, my parents were going through a divorce. I went to a friend, told her about it. And like, the first thing she said was something about herself. Like, I've been there and I stayed and I'm still friends with this person. And so… You're still friends with this person? Yes. Okay, the question that I want to know from S and then from you, Kathleen, seeing as we don't have S in front of us, is was said friend always like this or did said friend

become this all of a sudden? Because that to me is the differing point here. That's a great question. For me, I think this friend has always been like that. I just started, like, noticing it. And maybe it got a little bit worse, and I think that what I will say to S that might be an explanation for her friend's behavior is that with my friends, it got worse with insecurity.

Like, the more insecure they became, the worse friend they were. And so I think that's how I justify it sometimes. I'm like, this is why I'm sticking around. S said that, you know, she wanted to defend this friend, that she felt bad that other friends were talking bad about this guy. And so I understand that. I understand that inclination. If you're a good friend, you want to defend your friend.

But like if this friend isn't being a good friend back, I don't think they're worth it. Can I play a little? Like I have a little, I'm like sometimes I have those little spidey senses where I'm like, I think I know what's going on here. And I think for me, and I think what you've just said, Kathleen, is the friend is feeling insecure. And I think the reason why her friend is feeling insecure is because something's happened

in their relationship whereby they're not so close. So this is why he's acting out, right? Because she doesn't seem to be like, and he's always been like this. It's sort of like this out of blue behavior that he's becoming so like clingy and annoying and desperate. For me, if we can go back to that, I think it's like the second paragraph where I would be upset if I was him. If I texted either one of you at 7 a.m. was like, want to hang out tonight?

And you said no. And then you made plans with someone else 12 hours later, I'd be like, why the fuck didn't you invite me? Yeah, to come along. So for S, I want to be like, you got to take the blame on that. Like that is actually like fair that he's a bit miffed that he's asking you to hang out. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. And then you're out. Like, that's not cool. I would, that would bother me. And that I think is then where we start to see the fuel of his, of his insecurity. Right? Like, so I feel like S has a part that she's playing in this. And I would like her to acknowledge that. Well, I think it's also interesting. I feel like not to get all granular with the writing and the train of thought, but if she had flipped the stories where she was like, hey, I need your advice about a friend. Hanging out with this friend gives me anxiety because he always

talks about himself and he doesn't ask me any questions. And then the one time my mom was sick and then he blew right by it and talked about his uncle and she wrote that paragraph first and then wrote the second paragraph where when he calls me at 7.30, I don't know if I feel like going out, then you would feel differently. Yes, I would. But the fact is, is that S, you wrote that email and you gave us the info about bailing on him or not meeting up with him first, and then you gave us that information second. So it was, that's why you're feeling that way, Sasha.

And I agree. I had the same inclination. I was like, oh, weird. Like, why are you… Why would you do that? Because, like, I get it. I get not knowing what you want to do at 6 p.m. at 7 a.m. That's fair.

But then when 6 rolls around and you do feel like going out and you know someone has asked you to hook up and your other people are going out, then you should just be at least a courtesy. Hey, do you want to come? Do you want to come? Sure. So… She did say he was her ride or die, right? Yeah.

So you would expect that you would invite your ride or die. But you're right that if this person gives you anxiety and if he's at a group… He's at a table with a group of friends and he's trying to one up everybody. You're like, I don't want this guy coming with my group of friends at 6 p.m. At 6 a.m. I know I'm going to feel like that at 6 a.m. So like, no, you're not coming. I get that.

I get it too. I just wonder if there's like, you know how as writers, how you write can betray you? Sure. It just did here. I don't know. Like, does this, the fact that she listed these things in this order, is that indicative of something? I think both things can be true here.

I think she kind of dropped the ball on the friend game there, and he's become overbearing and a bit anxiety-inducing in their relationship because he is one-upping. No one wants to hang out with a one-upper. No. Like, they're the worst. The worst. Especially when they're serious one-uppers, when you're like, oh, hi, my mom has cancer. Can we talk about that?

And you one-up it with something else. Like, that's fucking bananas to me. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I'm like, this isn't your friend. Do we not talk to that friend, though, and be like, hey, Bob, where have you gone? What's going on with you? Oh, yeah.

You've got to sit down and talk to him first. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think that that needs… Which I say that so confidently. Yeah. As your friend. As your shitty friend, I'm still your friend.

I need this advice. I love that it's become about Kathy. Yeah. Oh, my God. Speaking about what I think. Kathy's like, let's talk more about my friend. Let's talk about me. Okay, but in fairness to you, that person isn't your ride or die.

You have never said, as long as I've known you, We all know who your ride or die is. That would be Elizabeth Trenere. Yes. And who's been on this podcast a couple times. Don't be jealous. I just don't understand why you guys didn't invite me. But, yeah, I just think it's – I think it's a little bit different where this person was, like, a little bit further down the list.

Yeah, for sure. And I do think I honestly will give myself – again, it's become about me – the benefit of the doubt. And I do think if it was one of my best friends, my ride or die, I do think I would sit them down and be like, listen, this behavior you're exhibiting is hurting me. Because clearly this is, I mean, this is why she's writing in. Like if it wasn't hurting her, if it wasn't like she wasn't thinking about it, she wouldn't care. I thought it was interesting what you said too about how you didn't notice it before.

Yeah. And that is something that is, I agree, in our 20s, certain things don't bug us. Like, we are already kind of, like, fucking fucked up. Everyone's fucked up. A little bit more self-involved in your 20s than in your – Kathleen's still very young. I just want to make that clear. Thank you for the clarification. And she likes to make that clear a lot.

Yeah. Yes, I am so young. So you're not that far away from your 20s. No, not at all. In fact, you're barely out of your 20s. So I'm still learning. This is why I'm doing this, guys. So in your 20s, yeah, things – you're not perceptive to certain things because you're

so in your own head that other people's behavior when they're in their own head is like normal or you don't notice. So I do think it's interesting that when we get past that phase, sometimes we phase friends out. We either outgrow it or we notice things. We want different things. That's also really normal. Um, I think it's this weird thing, especially with, yeah, not, it's not even gendered.

It's that we feel like we have to be forever friends with people because we're told in stories like Good Will Hunting or that you have to be friends with the people that you grew up with. I will say though that I think it's too early for us to throw in the towel when you have someone who's been in your life this long that they deserve to be – they deserve to have a conversation about their behavior and how it's affecting the whole relationship in general. So I think that S needs to talk to her friend and be like, what's been going on with you

lately? What have I done that has maybe like stirred up some emotions or insecurity in you? Like, the discussion has to happen before we can give any actual real concrete advice. Especially if you're describing him as your ride or die. Yeah. You've got to have that conversation first, I agree, but keeping in Lainey's advice in mind that you don't have to be friends with this person forever. Yeah.

Yeah. So have the conversation first, but then be like, maybe you're not there yet, but… Right. Yeah. Also, spoiler alert, there's a question that's coming that actually will lead right into what you just said, so it'll be interesting to see where we go with that. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. Now I'm, like, excited to see what's going to happen next, but I also want to finish on or at least explore the idea of when you have the talk, it's going to be really uncomfortable. I think that the reason people avoid these talks, Kathleen, is that it's really fucking uncomfortable. Correct. And if you know this person, if this person is a one-upper, I can picture what this conversation is going to be.

What? Right? Like, it's going to be like, hey, you know, I think that something's changed in you and I just want to know, like what you just said, I just want to know what I've done, what we can do moving forward. And then the one-upper just gets defensive. Yeah. Right?

And then just tries to go back to their own stuff and make you feel guilty. And then you leave the conversation feeling guilty and being like, oh, am I the bad friend? What happened here? And so when I play out that scenario in my head, because like I am an anxiety-ridden, and, like, overthink everything, I play conversations in my head before they happen. If I play that conversation in my head, I know how it's going to go, and so I just don't have it. Is that bad?

And because they're not that close. Like, this person doesn't live here. Like, I'm not seeing her every day. It's not that bad for you, again, because your person isn't your ride or die. Yes. So if it's your ride or die, unfortunately, as uncomfortable as it's going to be, you it needs to be done. And I hate to sound all Pollyanna or self-help, but like change doesn't happen when we are comfortable. Like change only occurs when you're doing and

going to places, going to spaces and doing, I don't know, whatever. But you know what I mean? That are like new and uncomfortable. So sorry for the self-help talk, but yeah, You got to get uncomfortable, right? I agree. Yeah. Good luck. Keep us posted. I also still feel like, yeah, let us know.

But I have faith that your friend just needs to feel welcomed back in your life and also make some changes. I think that is doable and possible. So I wish you guys luck. Okay. Next. Oops. Oh, that sounded nice.

Are you guys both drunk? You're probably a little bit drunk. Yeah. Now I can tell that you're like plugged up alcohol. like I can tell like Asian alcohol plug oh right

you're a little bit stuffed I'm always a little bit stuffed lately though no but like literally anyway okay ready you're both drunk yeah I'm ready

I'm the sober one thanks in advance oh no that was the previous article for fuck's sakes you just ruined my goddamn point oh my god

okay dear Sasha Laney I need some advice on how to make more lady friends I'm a college student about to graduate with a degree

in mechanical engineering Hello. My class is about 15% women on a good day. I've become so used to dealing with engineering bros, I feel like I've forgotten how to talk to anyone else. I have a few close female friends, all also engineers, but I'd really like to branch out and diversify my friend group. Engineering guys are easy to talk to because 99% of the time they're either more socially awkward than me or kind of dumb. Sorry. But the minute… that's them saying, sorry. But the minute I see a gorgeous, confident lady I'd really like to get to know. I clam up because I feel like she'll be able to see right through me somehow. As confident ladies yourselves, what advice do you have for

branching out? Thanks. Also, I don't really care if you use my real name. Let me just read that again to make sure. Thanks. Also, I don't really care if you use my real name. So we can say the name, right? Yeah. Okay. Hannah. Also, I love how Hannah said when she sees a gorgeous, confident lady and then she just said as confident ladies she exempted gorgeous for us okay go on sorry hannah was not writing to me let me clear let me make that clear um okay so first of all hannah congratulations on your degree in mechanical engineering you sound hardcore yeah um that's really sexy and that there's a lot of other women in her class Well, not a lot.

Didn't she say that? 15% women on a good day. But some women. Oh, okay. That's something. Not great. But she said that the few close female friends that she does have are also engineers. Oh, my God.

Good for you. There's like a world in which they're… Excellent job, Hannah. Yeah. Anyway, so how does Hannah approach gorgeous, confident ladies? I mean, I feel like all of my friends are gorgeous, confident ladies. Truly. Right.

And some of my best friends I have made in the past, like, two, three years. And I truly just – I mean, I was always really good at flirting. And I feel like I would approach it like flirting in a romantic relationship. Like, you just have to be your most charming self and just go for it. That's actually really good advice because I feel like you've been like that. I remember when we first met, you were like – you were very complimentary to me. Yeah, I was, like, hitting on you. But you were also like, we're going to be friends.

And I was like, meh, I don't know you. And you were like, we're going to be friends. And I was like, I still don't know you. I'm surprised you didn't run away because that is the first thing that stares the shit out of her. I cut to four years, five years later. Now we're friends, but we weren't back then. She's like, why are you getting back to me on Twitter?

Well, yeah. See, this is who she's changed me into, some fucking thirsty bitch. But my point being, like, I remember that. Like, you were very, like, up in my face. Yeah. Being like, we're, like, let's hang out. And I think sometimes you have to do that, especially with me. I'm, like, pretty standoffish and don't want to be friends with many people.

And I need somebody to kind of push themselves, not in, like, a super aggressive, annoying way, but, like, sometimes you need to, like, really confront someone to be like, I want to be friends with you. Because in this day and age, like, when we're older, like, it's hard to make, it's hard to meet people. And sometimes both people are shy on either end. So if you can be that, like, quote unquote aggressor, that's bad too. Okay, not aggressor, but if you can be that person who can come up to someone and be like,

let's hang out. Let's do something. I want to be friends. The one who makes the first move. Yes. As you said, in the whole flirting kind of analogy. I love that analogy, the flirting. Because I do think that people, like, I mean, I don't know that many men, or at least

straight men would admit to this, but I do think that a friendship can start like lady to lady or gorgeous confident lady to gorgeous confident with flirting. You use the same skills. It's conversation, being sparkly and funny. And, you know, we are a certain kind of woman, like we notice attractiveness, like we notice that kind of attractiveness. And it doesn't have to be like Kardashian style attractiveness, but like attractiveness can be in your smile. Yeah. And in how luscious someone, no, I mean, I'm not saying like you have to like make your, yeah, like fuck off, first of all, but I'm not saying, it's not like, oh, let me push

my tits out, that kind of thing. It's, do you understand now? It's not like that. It's, you know, I do notice when I'm talking to somebody, a woman, and if she is great hair, I'm attracted to that. I want to keep talking to her and looking at her hair. She's really beautiful eyes. Obviously I want to – and she has a great voice, right? That kind of thing. Yeah. And I think that's like a good tangible tip if we're giving Hannah like, this is a thing you can do on Monday when you see this gorgeous, confident person is like,

pay them a compliment, right? That's the first thing that you can do to like start that conversation. Oh God, you two are such flirts too. Yeah. No, it's true. It's true. Those are all really good points. And it was funny. I flirt with women. Yes, I know you do. Like in this, in this like non-sexual way because I love women. And like Kathleen, when I am into a woman, like I want to be friends with her, I'm fucking all over her. Yeah. And you go for it. She hates men. But yeah, I've seen you do that too. Like you've also seen me not care about people. Yes. But when I'm on it, like when I'm obsessed with somebody, I'm all over them.

Yeah. And then not in an obsessive, overtly obsessive way, but that's what you kind of have to do. When you see someone and you're drawn to them, then I think, yeah, as uncomfortable and as weird as it sort of feels, you have to push out of your comfort zone and just do it. If you want more fucking friends out of this engineering zone, you've got to do what you got to do.

But yeah, I was sitting next to one of your friends. We had the Lainey Gossip dinner last week. And one of your friends I was sitting next to said exactly that. Like, you guys somehow met at some party and the person went up to you and was like, we need to hang out. Like, I want to be friends with you. And you were like, okay. And you guys are now being friends for many, many years.

It was interesting because that's the way he said you guys became friends. Yeah. And then, and that's the thing. Like, I love this analogy. So, Hannah, you got to work on your flirting. Yeah. Absolutely. But also, I mean, it's not…

Listen, don't force it. like you clearly have your eye on a couple people Kathleen's like maybe force it well I'm not saying to force it

but it took me four years to become friends with Sasha and I didn't give up there you go so I'm just saying

like I don't think you need to force it but I also think that if right away you're not getting the exact vibe that you want from this person

that doesn't mean you stop trying yeah or you stop flirting with them yeah keep doing your thing you wore Sasha down

I truly did Totally, yeah. I think I did the same with you. I listen. I'll just wear you down. Meanwhile, as Jacek is indignant because he has about 20 seconds of your attention span, Kathleen, before you will go and flirt with somebody else. Be more interesting, Jacek. That is all I have to say.

So, Hannah, let us know. Actually, we would really love an update from you because we want to see how your friend flirting is going. And break it down for us. Like, tell us what your opening line was. It'll help other people. We get questions all the time about trying to find new friends. If it worked, great.

If it didn't, we, you know, we can help, you know, dissect how and why it didn't work. How about that? Yeah. Okay? Okay. Moving on. Next. Hi, Sash and Lainey.

I have a close group of girlfriends who are, as you always say, my ride or die. We've been friends for almost two decades. We're back to the ride or die, everybody. Through breakups, losing parents, new careers, we have always been there for each other. I love these girls so much. Two of them live in another state altogether, our hometown, while I live in New York. I moved here 10 years ago to launch my career and have never looked back. The thing is, while M and N are the closest people in my life, I can't help but feel

I've grown in a different direction. I hate saying that they are a small town, but it's kind of true. They've never really traveled. They are married to their high school sweethearts. They have worked at the same jobs most of their lives. These aren't bad things, but I hope it gives you an idea of their growth, in quotes. It's not like I'm a different person, but living in a big city, experiencing experiences, meeting and forming friendships with different people and different backgrounds and cultures

has shaped me. I feel like I no longer relate to them like I once did. I guess my question is, should I feel bad about this? How do I continue being friends with people when I feel like the fundamental things that held us together are the same things that have me feeling distant from them. I hope this makes sense. Would really appreciate your advice. Thank you. T. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I think Kathleen can weigh in on this one too. Okay. I feel like this is very… Yeah. No, this is… Your experience. Listen, I will say the first answer to T's question is no, you shouldn't feel bad. Because

um, yeah, I grew up in Oakville, Ontario. Um, I, um, was a black girl in a very white school and grew up with best friends that I still have to this day. I call them my Oakville girls. I love them very much. They are everything you were saying in the beginning of that email. I very much connect to that. They're amazing. They're your ride or dies. You love them, But, yeah, like, a couple of them are with their high school sweethearts. Like, they are in a completely, have gone in a completely different direction than me. And also, moving away from Oakville and getting friends that, first of all, are the same race as me or of different cultures than just, like, white people who grew up in Oakville, that is completely different. So I don't know what that situation is for T, but I think that absolutely our worldviews

are going to be different once you move out of your small town. And I don't think that's a bad thing to say, like, we have moved into different directions and I'm focusing on my career and they're focusing on their families. And that immediately puts you in a completely different perspective in your life. I think that's okay. And you can have friends that maybe you're closer with and you don't talk to your ride dies every day anymore and they're not the people you go to for your like life problems because your life problems are all completely different now like you're not changing diapers yeah you're

not dealing with a partner you've had for 20 years like that's a completely different dynamic I think that's okay yeah and I think like my girls know this about me and I think they're okay with that yeah but I also think that like it's not a crisis no yeah absolutely that's what I'm saying? I think everything she's feeling is normal and she feels guilty about it. I don't think she should. No, I don't either. Yeah, I agree too. I mean, I'm not necessarily from a small town, but like I have my Vancouver friends who are my three best friends and I have a group of people that I love out there. But I do feel like when I moved to Toronto, I did, I like this letter resonated because I did get new experiences. I was living like a really different life and

lifestyle that they were. And I think at first when I moved out here, I was like – like the letter writer said, it's not like I thought I was better than them, but I was like, there's something different happening with my life. Like I'm like learning a lot more. And that kind of actually might have been a bit of a dicky thing to think, but that's what I did think. Now after being here for 15 years, I like cherish my friends back home more than ever because I'm like all this time apart, they're still my core. And I also love that they don't have any interest in what I fucking do. Like they don't know, they don't know any like celebrity shit. They don't know anything. They could give two shits. And for some reason, to me, that's like heartwarming for me.

I no longer like the glistening glitter of like, I'm like this cool city girl. Like that shit doesn't mean anything at the end of the day. Like when people know who you are, it doesn't really matter what experiences you have that are different do you know what I mean like the core the like the common denominator is I want to be friends with you because you're good people not because you are dating the same person you've been you dated back in high school like all that shit doesn't matter at later on in life like I think you feel those effects more in your 20s and 30s because everyone's like you know thriving and doing different things I don't know like I get our, I just, I understand where our, where T's coming from. But I think when the dust settles

a bit and like the career isn't as important or all those things kind of settle down, you'll feel drawn back to your friends again. Yeah. But I also think that there is, like there's things that T is going to be able to teach her friends. Yes, I hope so. Yeah. That they are not exposed to because she's just exposed to completely different things from moving out of her small town and vice versa. So yeah, there's like, they'll be able to ground her in the like, not letting her career take over her entire life. Cause that's not as much as we all love our careers here. Like you still need that balance. And so those friends are going to let you have that balance, but also you're going to be able to come in and be like, no, I don't want to generalize people who live

in small towns or who only are around the people they went to high school with, but that's not opening up your worldview to a lot of different perspectives. And so in my experience, I have been able to like, my girlfriends say all the time, and sometimes I'm like, roll my eyes at it, but they're like, you've, you've expanded my horizons, like stuff like that. And I'm like, that's great. That's a good thing. But it's also like, that shouldn't be my burden. It shouldn't be like my only job here. But I think that on the flip side, I also need to think about how much they've taught me and how much they let, they like ground me as well. So, I mean, that's a good thing, I think, about her scenario.

I also think it's important to, I think it's great that, you know, you go to New York and now we're in like a TV show, right? Like, right? That's a small town. You leave your small town, you go to New York. Right? There's, you could, you guys are producers. She's Brooke Davis.

Yeah. From One Tree Hill. You can see the shot, like, you know, the camera zooms in on her walking and then the camera zooms up and she looks up at the skyscrapers, right? Like, that is your… And I think it's great and it's wonderful to have your perspectives broadened and to be meeting people of new backgrounds and cultures, but at the same time, like, even people of different backgrounds and cultures can be dicks.

Sure, of course. And kindness isn't restricted to people in a big city. Area code, yeah. Like what we want basic, all of us, no matter where we come from, are friends we can trust and who'll be there for us and who will listen and who are kind. Yeah. And that can exist in any city, small or big. Yeah.

So in terms of you assessing friendships, I think it's great that T is meeting people who are teaching her things. Yeah. That's wonderful. But it doesn't mean that like those core qualities of your two hometown best friends aren't the things that can be the bond. In fact, those are the most important bonds. Again, I'm here bringing the Pollyanna or whatever, but like…

Because you're drunk. You're feeling emotional. But I'm not just drunk. I'm like playing it out like the TV show where the trope in the TV show would be you leave the small town, you go to the big city, you're glamorized by the big city, you're drawn into everything, but then the big city people can betray you too. Yes. Absolutely.

I will say there are specific things. I don't want to read too much into like stuff that she hasn't told us but like if her friends are very much like marriage babies and she's single career yeah because I've been there and that's a frustrating position to be in with like your closest friends if they're being like well what about marriage what about babies yeah and you're just not on that level that I also understand and she can like I think that it's okay if maybe she distances herself from them if those are the pressures they're putting on you. Sure.

Yes. And there's ebb and flow, right? Like when you have decade-long relationships or decade-long friendships, like you're tighter, you're not. You're tighter, you're not. And that's good too. And to acknowledge that that happens

is something that maybe T needs to put in her back pocket. It's like that shit just happens. But listen, I've never lived in a small town. I've always lived in, like a small town to me is Vancouver. It is pretty small town. Sometimes it can be dinky. Sure.

But it's by no stretch a small town. It's still considered a very metropolitan city. And that shit can change in any city that you have friends and then they have babies and they get married and then you stop having things to talk about. Oh, yeah. That has happened to me. I mean, that happens here in… That happens here in Toronto.

Yeah. It definitely happens in Toronto or it definitely happens in New York. Of course. They also make shows about that. Totally. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's, this is just the organic nature of friendship. Yeah.

Geography is not like a really important factor in that way. But I do think that even though there are friends of mine like you and like you who are married and have babies and maybe you don't have things to talk about on the day to day anymore, certain things can still bond you together forever. Absolutely. And there's just such a comfort that they have known you since you were 14 years old. Yeah. They remember that crush you had on that dude.

And that trumps anything. You don't have to fill in background information. That trumps any and everything to me. That's why I think that Tease may be getting a little bit like – I think she just needs to simmer, right? Like she – I appreciate that she's concerned about like maybe drifting apart from her friends. But I think first, as we've said, acknowledge that that happens in friendships and be, they're still there.

Like there's nothing to really fucking worry about at this point. Yeah. It just made me think about recommendations of like what to watch and what to read for people who are going through this. Like, isn't this kind of book smart? Yeah, sure. I didn't love book smart, but sure. Really?

No. It was basically the exact same movie as… Bridesmaids? No, as… Because it's also Bridesmaids. It's also Bridesmaids, yeah. Is it Bridesmaids? That's not a bad thing.

Okay, but it's not a bad thing. It's super bad. But my love of Booksmart, because I did love it when I saw it, has nothing to do with it being groundbreaking. Oh, okay, fine. Right? Like, watching that movie, I was like, yeah, I've seen this movie before. It's just really cute.

But I still fucking love it. Okay, yeah, fine. You didn't, fuck, like, as gross as you are, you didn't fucking love the- As gross as I am? Sorry, what? What do you mean? You fucking love dick pussy fuck shit talk. Was there dick pussy fuck?

Remember in the cab or in the Lyft and they were watching the fucking porno? Oh, the porn. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It was just exactly like Superbad. But like still, it being exactly like Superbad is still why I liked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was a Superbad for teen girls and we didn't have that when I was in fucking high school.

It was just a bit formulaic. But okay, great. Go watch Superbad. Go watch not Superbad. Everything is formulaic. Okay. This isn't show your work. This is what's your drama.

No, I know. You brought it up. But I'll defend formulaic. Yeah. I will. Everything's forming like the Irishman is forming me like, get out of here. Yeah. Did you watch The Irishman yet?

No, not yet. Oh, God. Yeah. Go to – okay, go. No, Booksmart. Booksmart. Also, like, no, no, no, no, no. Maybe, actually, because I actually don't remember super bad, but I do love also the

scene in Booksmart where she's making out with that girl in the bathroom. Yes. And then – Love that scene. Yeah. It's hilarious. What the fuck does it have to do with what this person's writing about? what the fuck

is this I'm just saying Booksmart is a movie it's a great movie worth watching about this situation and holding on

to your friendships yes sure and bridesmaids and super bad yes it's about friendships and moving on

I'm trying to provide recommendations so is High School Musical 3 senior year oh Jesus now I'm on Sasha's side I have switched

no Okay. I don't know if that was the strongest ending. That is a deep, like, I can understand someone knowing High School Musical, like, whatever. I get that. But to go to three? I didn't even know that existed. First of all, High School Musical 3 Senior Year is the only theatrical release and the

best one. I am. Fight me. Who are the stars of a High School Musical? Who are? Zac Efron. Is it Zac Efron? Zac Efron.

And Demi, is Demi, oh, that's Camp Rock and Roll. Ashley Tisdale. Zac Efron Vanessa Hudgens Corbin Blue Fuck you I know why you did this I know why you did this

and brought this up It's because Sasha and I have no fucking idea what this is because this is another way of her being like I'm young

Yes exactly That's exactly why and you just named you just had to say you know who these people are so you're telling me that I'm the only old here Fine

I'll be the old I am so young first of all but second of all you know High School Musical you know Zac Efron you know Vanessa Hudgens don't act like you don't know

I only know their names and that they on their IMDb have that on there. I have never fucking watched it. I am going to make you sit down and watch

all three High School Musicals. Two is the weakest. Also, Disney Plus just put out High School Musical the musical, the series,

which is like a reboot of High School Musical. So this is why it's like top of mind. Is that what you've been doing? Yes, I watched all of them. Of course. I'm now questioning

my acceptance of her friendship. You're stuck with me now, Sasha. You're stuck with me. Thank you, Kathleen. Yes, thank you, Kathleen. Oh, is that it?

Yeah, really? Really, really. Like, you came with it. Yeah. You brought it. Thanks for bringing your personal experience. Yeah. I'm sorry for making it all about me.

No, you're not. No, you're not. So next week, we're back. We are back next week, and we also will have a special guest. Yeah. But until then, send us your questions. We want to know what your shit is so that we can tell you about yourself. Yep.

at Sasha at LaineyGossip.com. Send them my way. And also subscribe to us where you get your podcasts. Leave comments and reviews. Leave reviews about Kathleen. Definitely. Wow.

Please let us know what you thought of Kathleen, actually, in your comments because that will help if we want to bring her back again. But also,

she loves talking about herself, so she will read them. We've made me sound so great throughout this podcast. Thanks for listening. Thank you, Kathleen. We'll be back. Bye.

Bye.