What's Your Drama - "PEOPLE BE IGNORANT EVERYWHERE"

Episode Date: March 28, 2017

Welcome back to the Sasha Answers Podcast!On today's show: How to deal with micro-aggression (AKA racist sh-t) in the work place, how to make a clean break from your boyfriend, and how to not perv on your student.Thanks again for listening and keep your questions coming to me at [e-mail] or tweet us at @sasha_tong and @laineygossip. And head over to iTunes and Google Play to download the podcast!we love you xo  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Digital precision, post-read authenticity, and performance data that proves it worked. Don't fight for attention. Buy it with Acast. Learn more by visiting ACAST.com slash advertise. Hi, this is Lainey. Oh, hi, it's Sasha. And welcome to the Lainey Gossip Podcast for Sasha Answers. Hi.

How was your weekend? It was good. It's Kory's birthday is today, the Tuesday that we're posting this. And so I forced him to make his birthday Saturday so that I could like make him a nice dinner and give him his gifts because by the time, like, I love that I totally, oh my God, that sign totally hijacked his birthday because I was like, Tuesday, I'm not going to really be feeling it. I'll come home late from work.

I won't cook you anything. So we made it on Saturday. That's weird. I also made Jacek's birthday this past Saturday, even though it was a full week early. Oh, you gave him gifts and everything? My gift was I baked my first ever cake. Yes. I baked him a chocolate cake.

It's delicious. You put that on Instagram. It looked perfection. It was really perfection. Like not to sound really dirty, but I baked it in a bundt pan, which I only recently found out it was called a bundt pan. Oh. Is that the dirty part?

No. Oh. But in order to like make sure your cake comes out of the bundt pan cleanly. like not sticking to the pan the best way i got a really good tip from a friend is to grease it with your fingers so i just kind of fucking buttered the shit out of that fingered the i think i totally fingered the bunt pan but i was so precise about it i was basically doing surgery with the butter in the bunt pan anyway it looks beautiful the reason why we had to celebrate Jacek's birthday a full week early is because his real birthday is

April Fool's Day on Saturday, and my mother has ordered him to have dinner with her, and she came up with the guest list, which… What? So it's going to be your mom's friends? It's going to be my parents. Yeah. And it's going to be a couple of friends of ours that she likes because their signs are they're like their Chinese signs are compatible with her what and then two people

that Jacek and I have never met that she met at the hospital at like the cancer center that she wants to be friends with like she wants to be cancer friends with this lady so amazing so wait the people that are surrounding the table for Jacek's birthday uh are aligned with her sign not Jacek's with her own correct astrological sign correct and her cancer friend her soon-to-be hopeful cancer friend correct Jacek's birthday has nothing to do with Jacek although the menu is all the things that Jacek loves and he's getting two Peking ducks wow because he's eating one for himself she's pre-ordered two so it's not like like look don't feel sorry for him or anything Oh my god, I don't. But I think that's like, sorry, I'm kind of offended that I don't have the right sign for your mother. I feel like I've always tried to squeeze myself in there, but she obviously doesn't like me very much. But your mom's fucking epic. I would love to know, I would love to just like hear her talk more. Like the only time that I've ever seen her was when I was shooting something with you and her and she was very shy to be on camera.

Right. So she didn't really, like, give me the full squawking chicken. Yeah. But, like, I feel like I just need that. Like, can it be, can it be your, when's your birthday? September. Can she throw you a birthday party and that way I can be invited? I don't know.

She might not be in the mood for you. Okay, fine. Fine. Fair enough. Which makes it even better. I almost want to be on her bad side. That's great. Anyway, happy birthday, Kory.

Yes. And happy birthday, Yasik. What did you make him, actually? I want to know what the special dinner was. I made him, he's so easy to please. There's just this pasta that I make him. So I made him that and like that's it. Like it doesn't take much.

What's in the pasta? It's like sun-dried tomato sausage and spinach and what else do I put? It has to be super simple, but then I make my own tomato sauce. Okay. So there's like some love in there. It has to be super simple for him or for you? For him. Okay.

The boy eats, as we have talked about, only peanut butter and lettuce sandwiches. So it's like… Right. Pasta with fucking tomato sauce is a fucking big deal. All right, shall we? Yeah. Okay. First question.

Hi, Sasha and Lainey. I'm writing to get advice from you two because I'm angry with myself. I recently started a new job a few months ago. As I started to get to know people at work, I noticed one particular person, the HR director, would make inappropriate comments about people's lifestyle and culture. In fact, I started coining her as the Michael Scott of our office She and I have developed a good rapport And one day she says to me

The other day in the meeting, while you were laughing I wanted to ask you, where did your eyes disappear to? It's okay for me to say that because my children are half Asian And I say that to them all the time It's important to note that she is not Asian And in fact is white, or Caucasian if we're being PC So I'm Chinese and grew up in a predominantly non-Asian community Of course, I endured ridicule as a kid, but as an adult, and it's been a while, I wasn't

sure how to react. I was taken aback and just sat there speechless. In my mind, I excused her and just wanted to move on and pretend it didn't happen. I mean, I was new to the company, and here's the HR director making this comment. Surely she must know it isn't okay. She then repeats this again to at least two more colleagues once in front of me and the other time in private with someone else. That someone else mentioned it to me.

So now I'm like, what the fuck? Week after week, I think about how I'm going to confront her and rehearse the speech in my head. I never get to it. And along the way, I mention it to an HR personnel and ask for advice, and she had none. She ends up escalating it along with other cultural insensitivity and performance issues to the director of the organization, who subsequently addresses it with the HR director. And so the HR director apologizes to me, but does it by making me feel bad about not talking

to her directly about it in the first place. And also, instead of pulling me aside into an office, but openly in the common area to discuss it. She said she thought we had a rapport and treated me like family because her children were half Asian. Oh, Jesus. Now, things would be different, and she said she would be more careful. And me being a compassionate moron, I tell her, thank you for the apology, but I say I'm sorry that she feels bad. Like, why did I say that? I don't feel sorry. In fact, I'm embarrassed, and also her apology sucked. She continues by saying that she didn't realize

I was hugely offended and made the workplace unsafe for me. Oh my God. I told her that I was offended, but at no point felt unsafe because she did this in a public space. My team heard the entire exchange and one of them even said, you shouldn't have been so nice to her.

Anyway, how would you ladies have handled this? I hate confrontation and I hate myself for not having the lady balls to just tell her that she can shove her so-called privilege sympathy up her ass. Thank you. Asian eyes wide open. How does that person get to be the HR director? I know, no joke.

My God. Well, I kind of… I would probably have done what Asian eyes did. There are so many times where I feel like I'm going to fucking confront someone and like give it to them and then I fucking put my dick in my ass, right? And I just don't say what I want to say. So I don't think Asian Eyes should beat herself up too much because, like, it takes a lot, you know, it takes a lot of guts to stand up for yourself and it also takes, like, a

lot of practice sometimes, you know? If you're going to deliver something, you sometimes want to rehearse in your head a couple of times. You know what I want to get into first, though, before, like, we assess what we would have done? Is I want to define this because there's actually a term for this. This is how I understand it to be anyway. And the term for this is, these are microaggressions.

And microaggressions is an expression that's being used more and more online and more and more in culture-sensitive language as we begin to understand how people of color have endured. As opposed to saying it's straight-up racist, is that what you mean? Because I've never heard this term. Right. It's not like, she can walk up to her and say, like, hey, you yellow-bellied chink. Yeah. Right?

Microaggressions are like, oh, you're so exotic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got you. You know, and your food, it's just so different and interesting. Those are microaggressions. And so that's interesting that you point that out. We can go back to more of what you want to say. I don't mean to cut you off. But this brings up that whole, was it Vogue spread where what,

Karlie Kloss was in there and she was in like whole… Like all in geisha dress. And it was interesting because Chrissy Teigen, our fucking homegirl for life, said something that really resonated with me, which didn't really bother her that much. She understood why those things can offend other people, but personally for her, it didn't. And I think that's why it makes it difficult

to navigate through things like this because there are some people who aren't offended and some people who are, if that makes sense. Yes. But that's what I'm saying. And I know that that isn't necessarily, I know that you were very, very, very against that Karlie Kloss spread.

For me, I was sort of just like, I don't know. Like, I didn't think it was… I didn't think her intentions were bad. And so that's why it didn't bother me. And also I was like, she looked kind of beautiful. And I don't know. I don't…

I am not saying that particularly my stance is 100% correct, but that's actually how I feel. Yeah. Like, it doesn't… It doesn't… It doesn't jar me. It doesn't make me angry. It doesn't make me seethingly angry.

I mean, I think it's… I think it's one thing to be like, hey, this is how I feel, but I'm not sure if my stance is correct and I want to be in a safe space to openly talk about this. I think that there were so many, to me, things wrong with that issue because it was called the diversity issue. Yes. Okay. So…

Standing alone, I'm saying, though. Yeah. Like, so for you to put on the cover that this is your diversity issue… With a white chick. And then to go to Japan with a white chick and be like, oh, look at our white girl dressing up in, like, Japanese cultural attire, it just is so tone deaf that you have to ask yourself, how many editorial eyes did this cross, like, whose desk did it cross? How many eyes were on it before somebody, oh, clearly nobody was like, maybe not in

our diversity issue. Like, you know, it's not like Karlie Kloss is lacking for opportunity for an editorial fashion spread. First of all. So in your diversity issue, why couldn't you have chosen a different model? Right. I forgot that it was the diversity issue. It's okay. This is a space where we can walk things back. But still, having said that, had it not been in the diversity issue, I still wouldn't have felt so up in arms as many people did. Again, I understand it

and I understand your points and they're actually totally correct. But for me personally, it wasn't a fight that I was willing to fight or wanted to fight about. Sure. I think that there's a difference between saying, no, there was nothing wrong with it. Yes, exactly. And you're wrong if you feel offended and saying, hey, I wasn't offended, but I support you being offended and I will listen to you being offended. And if I need to in a street fight, I'll probably, like, I'll be on your side.

Yes, totally. It's not as though if it came to blows, you would be standing on the side of defending it. It's just that you didn't lose any sleep over it that night. And I get that. But I think with microaggressions, this is what is so, it's a million little cuts. It doesn't always have to be the N word. It's just these little cuts, these little slights. So, and growing up Asian, I have learned to recognize them.

In the past, before, wow, we all had this conversation in these environments, because like there are certain environments where these conversations are unfortunately not happening at all. Yeah. But before we started having these conversations, you just kind of like buried them and maybe laugh along. Oh, of course. Well, you have said that before too.

There are so many times where you've been in situations where you have just laughed along to someone who's been openly racist to you and you've just been like, ha, ha, ha, because you don't want to fucking ruffle the feathers. Yeah. And especially in your workplace. That is a really, really, really hard thing to navigate through because you don't want to get your ass fired. You also don't want to create a divide within the workplace, but you also want to fucking

stand up for yourself. But, I mean, moving forward, because no one knows what the fuck I am, so I don't really ever get as much direct racist remarks. How have you dealt with it now moving forward? Well, listen, I think that in these cases, the reason why it's so frustrating and the reason why the person who wrote in is so frustrated is you were insulted to begin with, and I say this all the time, you were insulted to begin with, and now you're mad at yourself because you didn't stand up for yourself. It's so unfair.

Yeah. That's why these situations are so unfair. So my first thing is to be like, don't be mad at yourself. That is not where your anger should be. So if you can get to a place where you can spare yourself any of the judgment and redirect it back to like HR ignorant, that would be great. How would I have dealt with the situation? I don't know.

Like, I would like to fucking come out with my dick swinging like you said and be like, hey i'm gonna spray you in the fucking face you bitch but at the same time spray you with what whatever my anger and my righteousness okay i love that yeah um but at the same time she was new in the company this was the hr director so like what if you can't fucking get her to fucking exactly what recourse in her mind she would have been and maybe even in mine i would have been like What fucking recourse do I have? I just got this job and the HR director's coming around being like an ignorant fuck. Like, what am I going to do?

Like, we all feel a little bit handcuffed there. I think it's totally normal that you felt a little bit stymied. Totally. And I almost think that she did the best that she could. You know, not only was she taken aback by the comment, but she was also taken aback by their reaction from the domino effect of the HR people, right? What else could she do? You're totally right.

She was handcuffed. So other than, like, quitting, I think she actually handled it as well as she could. She handled it. She actually spoke up. A lot of people wouldn't speak up at all. So the fact that you handled it and you handled it with evidence, like other people were around to get confirmation that you actually spoke up and aired your concerns and took your concerns to somebody who then did something about it, I think instead of being upset with yourself,

you should be proud of yourself that you took that one step. I agree. And that one step, hopefully you'll never have a next time, but chances are you will because, like, people be ignorant everywhere. So hopefully next time, you know… Hopefully there is no next time, for fuck's sake. But, you know, look at the things that happened. Yes.

Look at the things that we just addressed in last week's episode. So, hopefully this will give you an opportunity to, like, draw on this experience and add to it next time. But, yeah, you are not to blame. Yeah, don't feel bad. I actually think really right on. You actually did quite a good job. So, congratulations.

That's what I want to say. Yeah, we turned that one around. Yeah, I'm not really sure I could have… I would have done any better. No. It's… Yeah, anyway. Next.

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Browse thousands of the world's leading podcasts, book host reads or run your own ads, and track every conversion in real time. Same skills you already have, brand new results. Acast, acast.com slash advertise. I have been in a relationship with E for 10 months. In the beginning, the relationship was fun. He's kind, affectionate, and patient,

but it hasn't been easy. He interrupts, walks ahead of me, and has obsessive tendencies. I'm not perfect either, but my negative qualities are coming out more in this relationship. It's become more work than it should be. We've been going through some rocky times and I've tried to break up with him twice. Both times he said such loving things, it made me believe that we should fight for this.

Well, unfortunately, the good times don't last and I found myself being moody and irritated. This happens even if he's not around. I believe my subconscious is telling me this relationship with E isn't working. My problem is this. How do I effectively break up with someone who can manipulate so well? I've tried to do the right thing by doing it in person, but at this point, I feel like doing it through a letter or email. Thank you.

Any advice will help. So we're not getting that much information here. She's used some red flag words. She says that he has obsessive tendencies. these, she's used the word manipulative to describe this ex that she, or sorry, this boyfriend that she wants to make an ex. But beyond that, we haven't gotten that much information. So where's your vibe with this?

Understanding that some people provide more detail and some people don't provide more detail. Well, I think my instinct here is that this isn't a case of manipulation, but it's more of a case of her just kind of being weak and being um using kind of his behavior as a way for her to go back to him because she's lonely or she's unsure she's too scared to be single but yes you're right if in fact um does she leave a name no um if in fact our writer um has more details to provide and like if he actually is being abusive if he's actually using physical or mental gains to get her back then of course let us know because fuck my advice would be

completely different. But the vibes that I'm getting right now is that you're just sort of being a little bit of a puss face and you need to break out of this relationship and take care of yourself and take care of the priorities in your life, which is not being a miserable cow around people and looking for happiness in a relationship and within yourself. So for me, it's like, break up with the fucking dude. Don't answer his texts. Don't fucking call him. Don't hook up and go see movies. Don't think cuddling's cool. You can't be friends right after. Like, make a clear cut from him. Yeah, I agree. Like, it's not… when you go there and you see him, it's not a conversation. It's basically a declaration. Hi, I'm out. Yes. Don't

text. Yeah, right? Like, she was asking if she should text. Don't text. Yeah. Like, no email, no text, but be like, hey, and meet out in public somewhere. Right? Like, don't go, I don't know, to your apartment, his house, your flat, his basement, whatever. Well, I don't think she should break up in like a coffee shop with somebody. I do. Can you imagine if someone broke up with you, the feelings? Oh my God, don't, when you get broken up with, you want to fucking like bawl your eyes out and like fucking at least look ugly.

She's telling us that this person like talks his way back in and like changes her mind, right? So in my opinion, because we're helping her here, we're trying to give her like recommendations on how to be more resolved. Like he can't like talk you onto the couch and be like, but you know, I like, we can be so happy and I like, I can't even give flowery talk. Whatever. I love watching this though.

Jacek is laughing because he's watching me struggle with like trying to be lovely and kind and rosy. and I have a hard time with the words coming out of my mouth but whatever like he gets her on the couch

and he's like yeah everything's great and happy and love and she's like oh yeah okay but like if you're in a coffee shop

and like tick tock somebody needs the table and your coffee's getting cold you're like you're just making your declaration

you're like dude we've tried it two times I've told you two times it's just like it's just not working for me okay I agree

this is good advice actually Peace out. Yeah. And walk away from that table and don't fucking look back. That's right. I mean… You have to do that.

It's cold, but I feel like you're at a point where you're incapable of doing it like in the slow, gentle, loving way. So you might as well, if you really are that miserable and this is not working for you and you have to reach out to us, that is your way in public. Agreed. And then, again, going back, circling back to what you said, if, however, this is deeper than just a casual breakup and this guy is, has a hold on you in a different way, then write us back, let us know so that we can, we can revisit that.

Bottom line is you shouldn't stay in a relationship that makes you hate yourself. Like, you clearly are unhappy and so get on that and, yeah, let us know how the coffee shop goes. It could be, I don't know, or it could be a salad place. Whatever. Somewhere neutral, not on your couch. That's right. Okay.

Okay, last question. Hey, Sasha, I've been listening to the podcast for a while and I'd like to ask for your advice now. I'm writing to explain my take on my current predicament. For context, I'm single, open, and just turned 35. I'm teaching a university class overseas in Europe. I have chemistry with one of my students. So in the following blurb, I describe how I'm not going to act on my feelings because

obviously. And yet I keep thinking about Lainey's obsession. Do you have a teacher obsession that I don't know about? No, it's Sam Taylor Johnson and Aaron Taylor Johnson. Oh, fuck right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm teaching a university class. Okay, so blah, blah, blah. And I keep thinking about Lainey's obsession and whether I might be pushing away something that might be genuine. I have no plans to pursue everything. My thoughts, again, are below. Would love to know what you and Lainey think though maybe I'm missing something I'm in a grading bubble I will come out of it soon and then I'd like to chat but I wanted to vent about this one thing this one thing about desire which is that it speaks for itself sometimes renders us guilty too sometimes even when we've done

nothing wrong I mentioned my adorable student he's probably not turned 20 yet or maybe he's just turned 20 and there's no way I'd interfere with someone so young and inexperienced I just won't do it but he likes me for sure and I can't tell any of my teaching colleagues about this because it'd be hypocritical of me insofar as I probably like him even more than he likes me. On Monday of this week, he stayed after class again to talk to me. We talked for 30 minutes and then he offered to walk me where I was going, which was to the bank and grocery store. So he followed me and we talked the whole time and talking to him makes me happy. Being near him makes me happy. If he weren't way too young for me, if he were my age, I would absolutely want

to pursue a relationship with him but he's 20 a relative baby okay so we go on and on about that being on her conscience and that he's so charming um and she feels happy when he's near are you just over reading and she smiles a lot yeah because this is like and then when we said goodbye last week he gave me a quick hug i made a point in all of our exchanges back and forth not to say anything flirtatious so all i can be accused of such a crime is letting my heart race next to him of smiling in spite of myself, as though this is something anyone can fairly accuse anyone of. I let him hug me, but properly kept stiff, so that it was properly formal. But this is what I'm getting at. The following Wednesday in class, there he was, sitting there among other students,

quiet as he usually is, and I cannot tell you how guilty I felt. Guilty for having done nothing wrong at all. Guilty for wanting him. Absolutely, I want him. Does he feel this? I think he must. what to do. My sister says simply to enjoy the pleasure of his company and to make sure to not let anything happen. She says, quote, that sort of thing isn't tolerated in this country. They don't like stupid scandals here. And I don't like stupid scandals. I won't have a scandal on my hands. I didn't do anything. I won't do a damn thing wrong. I like him, though, so painfully very much. Guilty as never to be charged. That is the end of the italics. And then she says, thank you so much. I feel like she's a professor in creative writing or something.

Okay. Well, the italics were, I guess, her innermost thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. Feeding herself up, the push and the pull. Yes. She's the teacher, he's the student. Okay. Well, I mean, look, The problem here is that there is a definite ethical issue. You are his teacher. He is your student. That is a power imbalance. Yes. So your sister is right, and it's not a stupid scandal.

It is like a real go-to-jail scandal, okay? Yeah. So, yeah. I have a hard time romanticizing that whole teacher-student thing. And I know that people love it and, like, fucking wank off to it. That's even, like, a plot line in Riverdale, that show that I fucking love on whatever network. Kathleen loves it, too. It's so great.

Yeah. But that was a little whole plot line. Archie was, like, fucking his music teacher. And I was like, fuck that. That's so gross. And maybe I'm, like, too prudish right now or something, but it makes me angry. I don't think we should be like, yay, you, you older woman fucking like preying on like a 19 year old.

I just don't think that's right. I just don't think that's right. So look at him from afar, fucking finger bang yourself till the fucking cows come home. But like, don't act on it. Like he's 19. He's not fucking going to want to marry you anyway. So like give up the dream. I know what she's saying about like my obsession though, because like you see in Hollywood,

the older woman fantasy and the younger man, but I don't know that what happens on a film set is the same as what happens in a classroom. Like in a classroom, there is a code that an instructor, an academic has to abide by. So, I mean, listen, if possible, like, you know, I have had conversations with people I know who are academics, who teach, and when this comes about, they say the only way it could be even borderline acceptable is to remove yourself from being his teacher. Okay, so let's say, right, he's going to move on and not be in her class. What happens then? Right? Like, let's, you know, let's say he's in first year university and then he moves on and she's not teaching those classes. He is, she is technically no longer his teacher. Then

what? Is she allowed to fucking strike? Well, it's tricky because it depends on like what, like think about his grade, right? So she's going to grade him first. Grades are done. Let's say grades are done. Everything's done. I think then it becomes really suspicious later on, right? Like I don't think that that final grade can be determined by her is what I'm saying. Do you know what I mean? So if you want this, then like no good thing comes without a cost. So you might as well take the cost into your own hands and remove yourself from being his teacher. Is that something that you can do? If that is not something you can do, then like shut her down, girl.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally shut her down. And I think she's probably writing to us and being like, and we're listening to this and being like, you fucking bitches. I just told you that I'm not going to do anything with him. It's just an obsession in my mind. But I feel like she, but I feel like she was writing us to be like, but can I?

Yeah. No. So I want to say no. Like, all that shit, like, I didn't do anything. I won't do a damn thing. I like him, though, so painfully very much. Guilty as to never be charged. Like, it's, you know, also where I'm seeing a little bit of an out here for her that she's trying to create is what she says here, and I quote, this is in the italicized part, by the way.

This one thing about desire, which is that it speaks for itself sometimes, renders us guilty too sometimes, even when we've done nothing wrong. You're getting close in this statement to one of the statements that is just tossed around liberally that I hate, which is the heart wants what it wants. I hate when people use that to rationalize what they've done. Agreed. Nobody ever uses the term, the heart wants what it wants, when it's fine. Do something good.

Exactly. You only drop the heart wants what it wants when you know you're doing something wrong. Most likely illegal. Bullshit. I agree. Woody Allen said, the heart wants what it wants. Enough said. Yeah.

So, what's your name? Yeah. Madam? Madam. I think that you're getting real close to the heart wants what it wants and boom, going for it. And I'm just telling you the heart, your heart is wrong. There's nothing wrong with choosing your head.

In fact, I think that the people who are like, the heart wants what it wants are like negating centuries and like thousands of years of us evolving to the point where our head can make those decisions. Yeah. So, yeah, your heart, shut it down or quit the class. Yeah. You cannot give the final grade in the class. Quit the class.

Explain your conundrum and get the fuck out of there and then do whatever you want with him. But don't date a teenager. Like, don't fucking date a teenager. She says she thinks he's 20. Fair enough. But let's say she was like, he's 20, but maybe he's 19, but he's 20. Bullshit. He's fucking a teenager.

Anyways, that's it. Anyway, so that's it for us this week. Thank you for your emails and your advice messages or requests for advice. Keep sending them to us at Sasha at LadyGossip.com. And subscribe to us on iTunes and listen to us on Google Play. And we'll be back next week. Bye. Bye.

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