What's Your Drama - Taking an Instagram Lover & Ball Dropping Friends

Episode Date: April 8, 2021

Welcome back to What’s Your Drama. I'm sorry we were a little light last month on podcasts but life happened. Hopefully today's longer podcast makes up for it.Up first we hear from "Lisa". Lisa is half Asian living in a predominantly white small town and feels like she's been abandoned by a lot of her white friends during a time when she needed her buds. To be honest, Lisa might as well be me because I've also felt like a lot of my friends have dropped the ball. So here we are both asking Lainey for some advice on how to deal with this friend drama.Then we move on to "E" who needs some advice on a dude who's sliding into her DMs. She's ready to do the deed and, as she says, "take on a lover” but we're not sure E's strategy is serving her well.Finally we end up on some COVID-adjacent drama. "Ellie" is bummed that her friend "Sandy" has taken off on a surf vacation without her. Although Ellie didn’t want to travel during COVID, Sandy did. So is Ellie right in feeling like her friend did her dirty? Jacek texted me after hearing our advice and said it was quote "ridiculously incoherent". I beg to differ.We hope you enjoy the show and keep sending me all your DRAMA! Send your advice questions my way at [e-mail]. We also love hearing from you on Twitter at @sasha_tong and @laineygossip and Instagram at @lostandfoundapothecary and @laineygossip. And of course subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and make sure to leave feedback and comments because it helps others find our show!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why are you going to sell out Eleanor like that so quickly? 29 and 35 is, to me, negligible. Well, I mean, that's, I think I'm six years apart from Corey, and I think I would like to keep that as, like, a very big age difference. Fuck off. I would. Hi, I'm Lainey Louie, talk show host and entertainment reporter. I'm also the editor of LaineyGossip.com, and I am a BTS fan.

Yeah, you are. I'm Sasha Tong. I am a producer at an entertainment show here in Canada. I'm also a fashion and beauty columnist on LaineyCossack.com. And I am not a big BTS fan. But this is What's Your Drama? Where we gossip about you. I'm so angry from what you sent me earlier today that it made me think about this question.

Okay. um so here it is you after covid we're all with every bit of ourselves have been vaccinated and life is back to normal but you now know the people who have been like anti-maskers or like anti fucking whatever um like pro non-lockdown that didn't make sense but people who are like against lockdown all those people let's say your dentist let's go back to your dentist your dentist you find out through social media or whatever is like an anti-masker and someone who is like not for lockdowns and doesn't believe COVID is like super serious. And so you see this, you take note of this, but then flash forward to post-vaccine world and we're all good. Do you go

back to that dentist knowing? Okay. So, so all these people, have you made a list? I mean, I have a hard time believing that a dentist would be like that because these are doctors, fine your favorite your favorite restaurant your favorite tell me your favorite restaurant in toronto oh i can't name one off the top of my head but i love kanji queen okay and not the kanji queen is like this but let's say you find out the owner of kanji queen didn't really take covid so seriously are you going to support the said kanji queen after the pandemic is, quote unquote, over. I'll preface this by saying that, first of all, as we all know, most Asian establishments

were the first to adopt masks because of, you know, mask. For years. Because they took it, for years, for years, for years. So I'm just, you know, you just asked me to name my favorite restaurant. So it would never happen. But if Kanji Queen or that particular franchise of Kanji Queen was, you know, anti-masky. Yeah. There's no fucking way.

Okay. No way. oh, I can't say what this is because someone will be mad who's listening to this. But someone told me about a person who could offer a service to me and I needed it. It was like a business situation. But I found out when I looked at her Twitter that she was an anti-masker and I was very torn with what I was supposed to do because I'm in this place where you're like, oh, people are allowed to make their decisions in life and everyone has free will and they're entitled to their opinion. But what opinion? There's a pandemic. Well, I know, but they would consider

themselves correct in how they view this world and what is going on. Anyway, my point is I kind of was like, well, I guess I'll just like use this person's services and pretend I don't know this about them. Luckily, it didn't happen. She ended up being like the biggest flake and a piece of shit. So I had to ditch her. But moving forward, like I'm definitely taking names and making a list in my head of all the people who have been suspect during this last year and a half. And I will never, ever support them again. Is that right or is that wrong? Well, you also have a choice to support and spend where you're going to spend. So why would it be wrong? Because I'm torn with the idea that do people, are people allowed to have their own opinions, even if they're wrong?

What's the opinion though? Like they, did they actively undermine safety? Okay. Well, no, this answers my question that I am glad that you're on board and that you're not going to support the places or people that have been suspect and shitty and horrible during this last year and a half well like i said i don't think that you have a you have a choice to support whatever you want to support and put your money where you want to put it yeah but there's this yes but there's this interesting thing that's happening right now um and i'm thinking about something specific but i know i'm not allowed to call this person out publicly but it's it's this idea of this like white wellness whitewash that we've been talking about before

and they cloak wellness yet they weaponize it against the people that they've stolen that all those wellness like the the crystals and the astrology like all these white people co-op this shit and then they throw it back in your face like especially when it comes to covid like you guys when are we gonna all learn that nutrition and drinking clean water is what's gonna protect us during covid and that is so tweaked and fucked and it's cloaked in such bullshit yeah that i don't think the everyday person notices it but i'm taking fucking names is where i'm at right now i'm taking fucking names take them okay take all the names okay great you have my full support you have my full support to take the names good i hope my anger doesn't leak out i would like to

take names too i would like to take names too how about that good we'll take names together great sounds good we'll fuck them up together I love that I'm not fucking anyone else I just don't want people them to fuck other people up wear a mask everybody

agreed and get the vaccine that's what we should be doing is vaccine promotion I know because there are a lot of there are too many people who are like anti-vaccine

I know I cannot wait fucking vaccinate every orifice of my body I am so down and I need it in me right now

yeah yeah I fuck and where we live we're not getting that shit for a while it's I'm kind of okay with it because I'm just like get all the people that need to fucking get vaccinated I'm not going anywhere I have not left my house in forever so no I agree

with you it's true and like I'm happy to wait it's just you know and I don't think this is bad to say this it's just in the U.S. they're vaccinating 16 year olds and over now you know yeah totally totally my ass my ass is way older than 16 and we probably won't be vaccinated you and i our age group here where we live at least until july minimum if two two more months probably don't you think i think that's even optimistic let me be optimistic once in my life okay fine okay um all right so get vaccinated everybody and wear a mask um are you ready for drama ready okay here we go. Dear Sasha and Lainey, I'm hoping you can help me wade through my emotions to figure out if I'm being too sensitive or if I'm justified in my feelings. I'm half Asian, half European,

Scandinavian woman living in a predominantly white conservative small city in Canada. With the recent events highlighting Asian experiences and anti-Asian racism, it has been a bit heavy. Here's my issue. Not one person in my circle of friends has mentioned anything or reached out in the past weeks, and I'm quite frankly mad. In the past, they've commented on BLM, indigenous issues in Canada, and events in the U.S., but when it comes to racist issues closer to home, nothing. Social justice issues have always been important to me and shaped my experiences as a visible minority, my own family's experience in Japanese internment camps. I've worked hard to create curriculum and integrate social justice content and materials into my classroom over 20 years.

I say this not to brag, but to explain why friends and colleagues have often seen social justice issues as just my own personal interests, like a hobby, rather than issues that affect us all. Do I have a right to feel hurt by the radio silence from my friends about anti-Asian racism and the current climate? Am I just being too sensitive and making it all about me? I'm just realizing how much I have bought into the model minority myth, especially waiting and making others feel comfortable before speaking my mind. So is it on my shoulders to confront my friends? With COVID, it's much harder to have these conversations when you're not always face-to-face. just for some context i don't love attention focused on me um i.e public acknowledgement

or having a birthday week would be my nightmare please this person is me basically i might as well have fucking ghost written this although i wouldn't say no to a karaoke costume party black pink anyone now we're talking maybe this is why they've said nothing i look forward to your insight and any personal experiences you might have had with this thank you for not using my name or where or saying where I'm from there is no anonymity when you have an ethnic name in a small community okay so we'll give this person a fake name we will call her um Lisa her black pink Lisa yeah great okay Lisa black pink Lisa all right um I mean I'm really glad that she wrote and I'm really glad that I included this because you know a couple of podcasts ago remember we were

going to talk a little bit about this and um i have been like this is why this letter resonates with me so much is because i am half asian and i have felt this exact same way during this time being like where are the people like i will say not i talk about taking names i've definitely taken names during this time too because some people did not reach out to me uh in from my friend group in Toronto which is fine but the glaring hole was not one of my friends from Vancouver reached out not one um like not one and that speaks yes and that speaks to um Vancouver because Vancouver is again speaking of white wellness is filled with people like that that think they're all fucking woke and like empathetic but they're not um and so i fucking

feel lisa one hundo like this is exactly how um what i've been dealing with because i don't know i don't think you should reach out i don't think you should tell i don't know you're probably gonna shine light to this but before we do like did did anyone disappoint you laney did did everyone you wanted to reach out reach out I don't have a list because I heard from many people and like I just don't think of the people I didn't hear from I guess okay so yeah there was no one who is close enough to me to have made an impact and and if like sure yeah great to answer your question i heard from the people i wanted wanted to hear from yes okay i did not so i'm sorry about that so maybe i throw the advice to you because lisa and i are both kind of at this crossroads

where we're like we don't love attention but when it comes to this it would have been nice for your people to um check in have you talked to them since yes about other things yes and so i'm not sure i'm not sure and i'm i'm speaking for lisa too i'm not sure what to do like typically i'm pretty outspoken typically i'm pretty much like if something's on my mind i'll let you know but in this instant i'm like do i have to chase people now to be uh good knowledgeable people and they like they follow you on social media because you've been pretty vocal about it on social media um these people half and half okay so i just don't know what to do i i don't i don't want to throw away these friendships because they're like the people

that i'm talking about in vancouver who don't listen to this podcast so i don't really give a fuck are like my best friends yeah and they didn't say anything and it's probably because they don't think that um it would affect me okay I don't know why but because we all grew up and nobody like uh I guess no one thought that I dealt with racism right because they didn't see it or I didn't talk to them about it because why would I because those are things that when you're the only like you know I had just a solid group of white friends and so as the other person who

was not white you don't really talk about those things you're not like oh hey remember the time that someone yelled at me to go back home go back to where I come from like you just don't talk about that you just fucking eat that shit and move on so anyway that I guess I'm just I'm rambling because I just want Lisa to know

that she's not alone in feeling this way and that it fucking sucks and it blows and it's disappointing and But if these aren't her best friends, then I don't think she needs to, like, tap them on the shoulder to talk to them about it. And I'm going to now use my own advice, which is I guess if they are your best friends, you should probably have a fucking conversation. Because this is going to eat at me for a long time. Yeah, like, if they are your best friends, I'm going to assume cutting them off is not an option.

Well, I don't know, is it? But I don't think that is the way to go. But it is an option if they've showed you bullshit behavior in the past. No, but for you, is cutting them off an option? No, I would never cut them off because I just think they're I think they're just clueless. So what are you going to do? I guess I will have to bring it up, but it's going to be really uncomfortable. And it seems really fucking annoying that the onus is on me to have to fucking bring it up.

But that's the thing. Like, that's what's fucked up. But, like, I feel so bad. Like, what is the advice here? Because I'm glad we're dealing directly with you in your situation. So you don't want to cut off your friends. No. But you also don't want to raise it with them.

No. But it's eating you up. Yes. So is it going to eventually affect your friendship? Is it going to be a cancer that, like, erodes? No, because I've been able to fucking stuff it down all these years anyway. Right? Like I've never talked to them about my, like any of that before.

So really what I, what I, I am, I guess the point is Lisa and I really probably should have a conversation with these friends to tell them how we actually feel. It's the only thing that will make sense. Is that right? Like that makes me feel bad that you have to do this labor. Well, yeah, it makes me feel bad too. That's why I don't want to do it. And a couple of weeks have passed and they've said shit.

How would these friends take it if you were like, hey, just to let you know, it's been a really hard couple of weeks for me and my community and blah, blah, blah. I just don't think and I think this is what Lisa probably deals with in her small town. And I know where she she told us where she's from. And yeah, like I think that that is a problem. when you grow up in a fairly white place no one like they they just they're not invested enough to care um and their their lives and we're talking about the west coast um their lives are so um their lives are really they just really care about like their own happiness and they just don't really want anything to shake that so they'll know that this is going on on the periphery

but they're just not willing to have that conversation. But it's such a narrow world view too. Yeah, of course. And that's the problem. Like we all have a certain narrow world view. Like that is why we have to like expand our, you know, where empathy comes from is when we expand the connection and the storytelling and the people who we become more familiar with

or at least their lives, their backgrounds. but in a place like that i i get it so what is the again to go back what is going what are you going to feel comfortable with i'm looking for you to give me advice you're like making me fucking you're making me heavy lift this when i'm like could you help me but isn't that what happens when you like it has to be i can't tell you i have to yes you can that's the whole part of this podcast tell me and tell Lisa what we should do I mean I think I know what I'm supposed to do I'm supposed to have these fucking conversations which I've said like a thousand times already but I I guess that's just what I have to fucking do that's the right thing

to do correct I don't know because I I also don't want you to have to do it I like that's just sucks that you have to initiate see I'm back at that I'm and I'm way pettier than you so the combination of legitimate feeling legitimately hurt because what you and Lisa are feeling is legitimate combined with my level of pettiness is just a bad combination okay so then what would your petty ass say because maybe Lisa and I need a little petty in this in this situation well I mean I don't know how productive it would be but I would probably want to say something like hey I just want to let you know it's been really hard for me and my community like these headlines and i i think underlying all of this in addition to all the things that you've talked about where

you and lisa align like understanding that your friends just aren't thinking of it and why it also actually goes back to one of the roots of anti-asian racism where we are invisible as as um as people of color where asian experiences are have often been overlooked asian pain has been often overlooked right and so a lot of the conversations over the last few weeks have been about like why don't people see the pain and um you know when that last week when the the filipino woman was attacked in in um new york you know walking to church she's 65 years old and she walked past a building and people like not only did she get attacked but people like bystanders totally ignored her so part of that is like bystander syndrome which a lot of people are

talking about and there's like bystander training now that people can go to so that's one part of it but then the other part of the conversation that came out of that is like for some reason And there is like a desensitization to lots of people's pain, like for sure in Canada, indigenous pain, of course, black pain. But Asian pain is part of that. But is it because of this model minority myth where lots of people feel like Asians are successful and don't feel traumatized and don't get traumatized that when an Asian person is in pain, comparatively, it's not as bad.

like so all of these are a factor so when we're talking about your friends and lisa's friends your friends is it that like the asian experience is just completely invisible to them yes and if that's the case does that mean in a way that you've been invisible to them yes and i guess um part of the way to change invisibility would be to talk and to have your voice heard and to so maybe that's the tweak in how you speak to them if you are going to address them as be like you know what i'm not going to be invisible this part of me is not going to be invisible to you anymore which is opening again to go back to pettiness is opening with an accusation a hundred percent lots of people will say that nothing constructive can come from when you're

opening with an accusation but i don't know i feel like if anytime you get to drop an accusation it would be now well and there's actually that's what makes it really uncomfortable is you're not gonna you're not gonna open that conversation with open arms really like it's gonna be like I'm mad because you've totally negated this experience so it right off the bat it comes off pretty aggressive so it's just it's one of those things where I will have to do it and Lisa if you care about your friends like I care about my friends I think you have to do it and what makes it challenging is like the friends that I'm thinking of um don't aren't um politically or socially charged they they're that's just they don't they don't that's not how they operate so that's an

added layer and that's what itself is a privilege exactly and and that's why it's interesting you know Lisa says that that is what she does all the time and her friends just think it's like a hobby that she's doing that right like it's like a little like a little side hustle how cute um and that is a mentality as well um that a lot of white people um do as well it's like they're just nothing they've never had to fucking really fight for anything um and get angry about anything when it comes to their race so they don't understand why anybody else would anyway so Lisa, listen, I am just as conflicted. I am in the exact same position. So that's why I'm finding this like kind of hard because I'm literally talking out how I feel about this situation in

real time. But I think the, the, uh, what Lania said and what I've said is that, yeah, if you want to keep these friendships, you're gonna have to be open about, um, the pain and how you feel like you have been, um, left alone to deal with this and have, and have no support. And so you're just gonna have to have that uncomfortable conversation and then see what the true colors of the friendship really are at the end of the day like will they step up after that and a lot of it too is like um performative after you have a conversation like that and that's fine it's you know it's pretty fucking transparent but they you got to give your friends the opportunity to at least try so that it becomes ingrained in them um so that the try isn't so apparent you know

Well, I mean, also part of this is we should mention, like, if you are listening out there and you are white, please know that this is, like, these are going to be conversations that are happening as we all try to move forward. So if this were to happen to you, try not to react with, like, in defense, like, with defensiveness. Um, because, you know, when I just said, like, you're opening a conversation with, um, like an accusation and inevitably it's not exactly constructive at the same time, it becomes less constructive if the person who is expressing their hurt is met with, well, I didn't mean to do that. Like, just, everybody just, even if it comes at you, someone in pain comes to you and puts you on the defensive, like, maybe try and understand this person is in pain. Like, I think that that is the Sharon Osbourne lesson, right? Oh, for fuck's sake, yes. So the Sharon Osbourne lesson is, you know, it was brought to her attention by everybody that, hey, maybe cut down on being so racist-y. yeah and her first like and other people have written and said this better than me but um

it's almost as if people are more insulted by being called a racist than caring about doing something about racism totally and i think that's the fragility that's what everybody you know that's the conversation, you know, that, that phrase, the white fragility, which, you know, a lot of people are, have been, have been sort of deep diving on over the last year. That's, that's one of the best examples of white fragility is to be like, to be in these conversations and automatically be like, not me. Why I'm being attacked, like Karen, whatever. Whereas the best thing to do is just try and identify when that fragility comes up and be like, no, no, okay,

here's a person who's coming to me who's really hurt. Yeah. And why are they hurt? Let me hear that first. Yeah, totally. So Lisa, good luck. I hope sharing this with Sasha is in some way. Lisa, maybe you go first and then let me know.

Probably Lisa doesn't know very many biracial people. Not where she's fucking living. So good luck. let us know how it goes okay next question uh sasha laney i'm curious about your thoughts on this i was in a serious relationship that ended just before covid in an attempt to move on i deleted all evidence of my ex from my ig and the next day an old acquaintance dm'd saying we should catch up coincidence i was down to see him and hear what he had been up to i hadn't seen him in years and wasn't even following him anymore but was all too happy for the welcome distract

distraction he's quite a bit younger but being newly single for the first time in years i entertain the thought of taking a lover oh my goodness i love this taking a lover i would never those were those words would never come out of my mouth me neither but this is amazing yeah okay i entertaining i'm sorry i entertain the thought of taking a lover and he was definitely being considered we exchanged numbers began texting and soon made plans to meet up then COVID happened in the early days of lockdown he persistently asked to meet up but I didn't feel comfortable and after I explained that I wasn't going to be seeing anyone for a while he stopped asking still he kept in touch and checked regularly problem was the conversation was stale

and repetitive I remembered him as the smart chiming I remembered him as this smart charming clever guy with an awesome personality but his texts didn't reflect that at all I was getting bored and when I tried to talk about something different he would leave me on read and disappear only to DM me weeks later and the cycle would start again. We went back and forth like this a few times during the first wave of self-isolation. When restrictions began to lift where we live and businesses opened up, we met for drinks at a local bar. It was a good time, but I felt a mutual friend vibe. A few weeks later, dude DMs me late night, some flirty messages I can only assume were drunk texts, which I didn't see until the next morning. Unsure how to play this off in

the light of day, I decided to lean in, making it known I'm down to have fun. After a few texts back and forth that definitely confirmed we were both open to hang and maybe more, he ghosted me again. Questions for you. Is he actually interested in me or is he just bored? Or was he curious if he could get in and didn't feel the need to pursue it once he got the green light? And why does he keep going back to DM when we already have a text chain established? I get that DMs are a good way to reach out initially and feel more casual making it conducive to throw away conversations and meme sharing but is this a definite sign he wants to keep it casual which okay but why try and then ghost or is social media just the preferred way to communicate now i frequently

take breaks from ig for weeks at a time and prefer to text he's 29 oh come on he's 29 and i'm 35 thanks for your insight okay girl first of all she said there was a significant age difference yeah and i'm thinking oh 15 right whatever and it's six years six years girl e her name is e eleanor i'm gonna call you eleanor okay eleanor ah now we go to a lower octave now now i i feel like eleanor might be an exaggerator oh my gosh why oh just because of the age yes well she's in like a different decade right or like what's it called is that right how to say that yeah So maybe she's just like, oh, I'm in my 30s and he's still in my 20s. People think that way.

Why are you going to sell out Eleanor like that so quickly? 29 and 35 is, to me, negligible. Well, I mean, that's, I think I'm six years apart from Corey. And I think I would like to keep that as like a very big age difference. Fuck off. I would. I would. Fuck off.

Okay, fine. Okay. Well, can we just get back to the DM and the texting? I find that a lot of people like to DM and use it as text. Yeah. And that could be a younger thing, see, as he's a whole six years younger. But people definitely use that, like, they interchange, like, between text and DM all the time. Yeah.

I also think it's just, I mean, maybe this, maybe there are other reasons, but it's just easier to stay in one app. Like, when you're DMing a bunch of people. Yeah. And then you just keep DMing with. Oh, I see what you mean. Like if you're, if you, if your Insta is open, you're just going to continue talking with people that way. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Yeah. So I, so I want to take that. So you want to take the age off as an issue, right? And we want to take off their ways of communication. Yeah. I don't think we should be focusing on, like, I don't think this is an issue. However he contacts you, whether it's DM, but I mean, if it's the DM thing, then I think

think the only significance we might attach the dm thing which i think eleanor knows is that he's dming lots of people yes so he's staying within the app when he's getting back to you over dm it's because while he's dming you he's dming i don't know how many other people that is yeah that's i think the takeaway from it the other thing that i would like to tackle is where she was like, oh, now that I've given him the green light, does he not want to pursue? That's not a thing. That's like when the green light is there, most people continue to like accelerate on that green light. Like no one is like, oh, she's interested. I'm going to back away. Like if he wants the fucking pussy, he wants the fucking pussy. Like he's going to he's going to get down

and dirty with that. And that is a good thing that you expressed that you were down. Is he like wanting to be your boyfriend no does he want you to be like his regular fuck person no like he I think it's gonna be one of those things where if like the timing is right and you're both on fucking Instagram at the exact same time and both want to scratch one out that's when it's gonna happen yeah but I don't think there's like gonna be like uh I don't think there's gonna be a future and I don't think he will be someone that you can rely on right away for regular fucking booty calls, right?

He's just like a fucking mystery in the night. Sometimes he's there, sometimes he's not. Yeah, I think that, you know, the questions are, is he actually interested in me? I think he's interested, but like if interest was on a one to five scale, I think he's like a two. Yeah.

So he's not zero. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I think you are, Eleanor, you are also a two. Yeah. You also just told us that he was like a total snooze. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'm not sure, unless Eleanor, like, that's what's confusing to me is why this warranted a whole letter. Well, because Eleanor is, like, I'm sort of like Eleanor in the way where you're like, oh, I'm not interested. This guy's a fucking snooze. And then you're like, but why the fuck doesn't he want to fuck me? Like, why am like, you know, I think she's more irritated with the idea that he doesn't want to fucking fuck her right now, yesterday, the day before and tomorrow. Like, you know, I mean, she's I think she's more frustrated with the fact that there's a boring dude out there who's not scrambling to be with her. And well, listen, Eleanor, I don't know.

I'm just reading from your words. And you said that you decided to lean in, making it known I'm down to have fun. After a few texts back and forth that definitely confirmed we were both open to hang and maybe more, he ghosted me. What does definitely confirm we were both open to hang? Were you like, hey, come in my cave right now? What do you mean by come in your cave? I took that in two different ways. literally come in my cave how how how how like how steep was the lean yeah were you like let's

fuck and also let's not forget that Eleanor was like very um apprehensive during this whole COVID thing right like she definitely like had him like dangling a carrot for a while and was like no I'm not ready I'm not ready I'm not ready and then all of a sudden she's ready eight months later like you know like it's hard to build off of that momentum if there's been that big of a break can't lie to you can't lie to you that he's actually interested or super interested he is somewhat interested yeah but also a little bit confused Eleanor sorry about like how clear you made it because you didn't make it very clear to us and and I may I remind you that you said that you had like a serious age gap.

And then I find out that it's 29 and 35. Right. Quite a bit younger than me. That is what you said. That's fair. Six years? Quite a bit. No, no, no, no.

I guarantee you that anybody listening to the beginning of the message, when they heard quite a bit. Thought at least 10. Like, no, we're thinking fucking, yeah. like we're dealing with 45 and 20. I was not thinking that. I don't know why you're thinking in such extremes. Fine. Either way, I don't think we can peg Eleanor as a fucking liar because of that. No, I'm just saying an exaggerator, like perspective, right? Well, I think, yeah, I think your point. I want to know her perspective, Eleanor's perspective. I definitely made it

clear I leaned in. To me, it would be like, I don't know, like here's my address, come at this time like brunch yes okay you're right so yeah i think i think when you're dealing with someone like this dude who is like as you describe eleanor like a youth let's um let's be a little bit more blatant with what the fuck you want if you want to take on a fucking lover and this guy's kind of like flaky then you're gonna have another thing especially when she used to take on a lover taking a lover i'm thinking okay you're you know right in your 40s or 50s or whatever right sure but let's let eleanor not want to leave us a bad review okay so eleanor if you want to fucking take on a lover and you're dealing with like a flaky teenage boy then

you're gonna fucking need to spell it out a bit more for him clearly if this is the guy that you want to fuck then you're gonna have to spell it out a little bit clearer because laney thinks that you are unclear in your statements and an exaggerator i'm just wondering if that's a possibility you're you're right to say other personality clues that we've gotten from eleanor okay anyway eleanor good luck getting the dick don't get it and fucking and write that in your dms and texts i'm gonna come get your dick and then i think we'll that'll solve the problem okay next um long time listener first time writing in my friend who's also a reader of the website reminded you that you both enjoy some covet adjacent drama and thought this might be an

interesting conundrum for the purposes of this email you can call me ellie okay ellie not to be confused with eleanor who is the fake name we gave the other person okay so ellie has a friend sandy who uh they met through work about eight years ago quickly becoming one of my closest friends we are both in our 30s mid-30s and have been single-ish for most of our friendship so we've ended up doing a ton of things together sandy and i had initially planned a trip to somewhere warm and sunny to surf for April 2020. We had previously gone in 2019. You can imagine what happened with that trip. Flash forward to 2021 after both spending time in our respective hometowns, Sandy and I are back in the city and trying to make the most out of it. That being said,

Sandy seems to be much more comfortable with traveling during COVID than me, especially as people get vaccinated in the U.S. I've taken a somewhat conservative, I've taken a somewhat conservative approach in that I really only hang out with friends in outdoor settings and try to work within a limited circle of people. Sandy and I had been passing back and forth Instagram pictures of the specific somewhere warm and sunny that we had planned to go in 2020 when she texted me and started saying that flights to somewhere warm and sunny were crazy cheap right now, as well as going through all the logistical things that we would need to do, i.e. buying insurance. I have sometimes had a hard time saying no to Sandy or feel like I'm disappointing her because I'm often

pegged as the more uptight one, but I was very straightforward. I do not intend to travel until vaccinated and just more people are vaccinated in general. There really wasn't any more conversation about it. We moved on to the next thing. It's about two weeks and Sandy and I are out to dinner in an outdoor setting with a couple we're friends with. One of them is still a colleague of mine. Sandy or my work friend's partner bring up the topic of travel and Sandy blurts out that she's going to the somewhere warm and sunny where our 2020 vacation was supposed to be with a hometown friend of hers that she's become very close with since being home during the pandemic. I asked a couple of follow-up questions and realized that it was a carbon copy of our prior 2019 trip

and planned 2020 trip just without me. Oh and the trip was the following Saturday. It felt as though the door the floor fell out from underneath me luckily my phone was in reach so i texted another friend an equivalent of wtf and otherwise composed myself for the rest of the dinner hangout i understand that i cannot be upset with sandy for taking the trip itself she's technically allowed to do that under the rules of both countries that being said my feelings are hurt i'm hurt that she's taking a carbon copy of a trip that we were supposed to take same hotel same surf instructor but i've been effectively replaced there was no discussion about alternatives or another time frame that could work i'm also upset with the way that she told me it feels as though she knew that

i would be upset so she put me in a situation where i would not be able to have any sort of reaction i was effectively neutered from any feelings until the next day which is when i legit wanted to punch a wall i was so mad about the whole thing she also has only mentioned it to one other person in our friend group kind of illustrating that she knows her decision making has been a little a little shady so I didn't feel like I could even be like hey who wants to hang this weekend on the group chat without seeming like I was trying to set her up to look bad my question for both of you is what do I do from here and how do I move forward in this friendship I was honestly all caught up in my feelings and busy with work etc before she left for her trip

to say anything I also have a hard time discussing conflicts with her she kind of sees things as black and white when it comes to feelings the last thing I want is to be in a conversation with her where she tries to argue me out of how i feel help sincerely ellie a very pale surfer p.s i just made the mistake of looking at the hometown friends insta and she was like we just went surfing and it was amazing and i'm hurt all over again pbs i do think it's totally irresponsible that she's going to a foreign country in the middle of pandemic but as i said above i can't i can't argue with her on it since it's quote allowed okay great sash you love this kind of drama well let's see well now you've scarred me from our last podcast because now every time i want

to give like how i actually feel i know that it's very truncated and short and then now i'm supposed to elongate everything so our podcast can be longer than fucking two minutes but like this one this one what's the short answer i want to know what the short answer now is you're like bye forever no ellie get over it you weren't allowed to fucking go on the trip because you didn't want to because of covid too bad like i understand that was it yeah i understand that ellie is like bummed but she is not ready to go travel internationally which is uh the correct move like ellie props to you yeah people i don't think should be fucking traveling for shits and giggles um and because of that what are you gonna do like you can't control fucking sandy sandy

wants to fucking eat pray love in fucking cuba where the fuck she wants to go because she doesn't give a fuck about anything but herself so that's what she did yeah what what else are you gonna do like i just don't i get that like you can be kind of hurt but i don't understand like the weird violence like wanting to punch shit and like the floor coming out for me like oh well fucking go with someone else when shit opens up again and you're vaccinated like this one trip isn't the only trip that you're ever gonna fucking have in your life and pick another friend carbon copy okay what about the who cares copy issue issue get another itinerary do another thing or fucking if you want to do the exact same thing when the time comes around like it's not like it's it's not it's

not so out of reach that you'll never have that again and like sandy wanted to do that so sandy fucking went and did that am i ellie i i don't i don't really feel like there should be so much emotion wrapped up in this like i get that it's a bummer like i would be bummed seeing those pictures of being like fuck i wish some vitamin d would hit my skin too or i could be surfing but you are not in the place to go anywhere because you are correct in the way that you're thinking that it's not the time and place to fucking go like you know on like some eco tourism trip like it's just not the right time I get the emotion though sometimes I can't help it like emotion whether or not they're rational so yes I don't want to invalidate your emotions you feel

what you feel so a hundred percent I'm not saying that you shouldn't yeah so I I understand what we're here to do is to tell you that I don't think that yeah you've had have your vent like you've been stewing about it for a couple of weeks and unfortunately like yeah we just sometimes we are unreasonably mad at shit what we're here to tell you is that this was unreasonable like I just don't like I'm not sure that of course this trip sounded super fun for your interests but it's not like a honeymoon you know right you know what I mean like it was a surfing trip how I'm not sure I've never been on a surfing trip, but I imagine, like, the variants of a surfing trip aren't altered. You go to a place with a beach, and there is an instructor.

Yes. And you go and learn how to surf, or you surf. That's right. Like, you know, how much variants could there have possibly been in this itinerary? Like, I don't know what your attachment to it, Ellie, is, but, like, again, I don't know that it was that special. like i i understand that what's special is the two of you and the laughs and the memories and the fun you had but again the that's just you know she was prepared sandy made a decision that you didn't want to that you didn't want to make which you made the correct decision sash and i

both co-sign that but i don't know that you can get mad about an itinerary she wanted to go surfing And I mean, how many different iterations of a surfing trip can there be? Right. And totally. I just and I guess where we should go back to is Ellie was upset the way that Sandy told her. Right. That's where the hurt feelings are, too.

So maybe that's where more of the hurt feelings live is the way that she kind of felt like she was like in the dark on this. And Sandy had found a new friend who was equally as great as Ellie and fucking whisked away with her. So, like, I get the hurt feelings. Listen, I get the hurt feelings. I get that we can sometimes be, like, irrational. So I'm hoping that Ellie just sees that and just kind of just deals with it because there's not much else you can do. But again, so let's go back to how Sandy told Ellie.

which was in, like, a group chat, right? Like, oh, we'll buy it. No, like, it was over dinner with people. Oh, over dinner. Right, right, right, right, right. Over dinner. It was over dinner with people. And that's where I agree.

Like, I mean, that's a little bit, like. That is shady. That is shady. And yet, what are you going to do about it now? Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like, I don't think it's a major character flaw.

No, unless this. unless this is something that you've noticed in sandy before like she's a user and abuser fine that's something that if you if that is the case then you need to inform us of that but you haven't expressed that that is as lady says a personality flaw yeah and again like i i if sandy is pretty chill about this kind of thing like she may not have looked at it like again you know maybe she doesn't see it as like a honeymoon, right? Right. And I think this is part of like how COVID has affected us. Like we're desperate for those interactions. We're desperate for life again, right? And like those moments of freedom. And so I think part of what you're seeing right now is

that like, you know, that's like sand through the hands. Like you almost had it, but it went away because you weren't ready for it. And that is, that's disheartening. That's frustrating. That's Like, that's fucking annoying. I've never heard that expression, sand through the hands. Oh. Or like, that was just so poetic, taking a lover. I literally just rhymed. But I think that that's what it is.

It's like, you're just, we're all longing for fucking real life and vacation. And so maybe a bit of it is jealousy, that Sandy gives two fucks, like, doesn't give a fuck about anybody that she went, right? And here you are trying to be responsible and getting the shit out of the stick. Like, so I think, yeah, like just work through how you're really feeling about this. Because at the end of the day, like I just don't think it's like a huge ass fucking big deal. Yeah. You'll have your surfing trip soon. Yes.

You'll have your surfing trip soon. It sounds like you were in the U.S., which means that you'll be vaccinated before me and Sash. Of course. you're probably already vaccinated as well as yeah your fucking nieces and nephews probably got vaccinated yesterday before we could get to your letter because something like over a hundred million americans have already been vaccinated speaking of jealousy yeah think about us think about us ellie even though like some people in the u.s are still describing the vaccination program as a shit show and it probably is in certain places but again here in canada slow as

like we sash and i are trying to be optimistic about being vaccinated by august yeah that would be optimistic that would be ideal yeah we have that'd be great i would be elated if by fucking august i can be vaccinated so yeah again elated ellie you good yeah you're gonna you can go you can literally something changes but right now the the fucking flow chart is showing that sasha and i the earliest august well no the earliest they say by end of june for our first shot okay well that's but that's not gonna happen anyway ellie we're basically saying by june you're gonna probably be about us yeah well that's what we do that is what we're here to do ellie you're probably by June going to be on a beach somewhere surfing your ass off so don't worry about it uh if this

is more suspect of Sandy's behavior let us know and then we can like rejig our advice but right now I'm like yeah sucky sucky you're just being a bit of a suck face and that and that's fair and I I feel for you but I don't think you need to be thinking about this much longer feel for us feel for us yeah again i wanted to go to asia in 2020 i know but we will i didn't get to go to asia and probably we won't be going to asia until 2022 it's my 20th wedding anniversary this year and we always go on oh wait is this becoming about me again yes it is so wait on your 20th wedding anniversary are you going with yassic somewhere are you going to go to our asia trip together you can do all of it can't you i want to do all of it but i'm not doing shit if we're

not vaccinated by august i know i know i know i also want you to have your wedding you're 20 is that gonna still happen i want it to happen but again we are back in lockdown where we live i know but you can start planning for 2022 so we have something to fucking look forward to a wedding yeah but it won't be my anniversary anymore in 2022 when is your wedding november 2021 20 years oh what are we now okay we might we could have something do you think i can go on a plane go on holiday in november no you i'm sorry i see your face why why i'll be won't we be vaccinated by november yeah but i don't think you'll want to be getting on a fucking plane right away i'll be back listen as soon as i get my fucking shot i'm going okay well then why are

you asking me i'm asking you if i'm gonna have you do this by november me all the time like i am fucking some chief medical officer you get mad at me i don't fucking know what's going on so yes fine fucking november you're gonna have a wedding and you're gonna go on honeymoon by november of course you're gonna be vaccinated soon oh see now you're lying to me i have nothing else to do but lie this is the only thing that gets me through the days um okay okay ellie uh good luck yeah you'll be please what you know what and if exactly like i mean if you continue to feel bummed out just know that when you get your shot it'll be way before we get ours yeah totally think about us so um yeah good luck keep us posted and listening yeah keep your questions

coming to me at sasha at lady gossip.com um thanks so much for subscribing to us wherever you get your podcasts, leave comments and reviews. Really appreciate it. We'll be back soon. Bye. Thank you.