When Reality Hits with Jax and Brittany - Ben Higgins on Saying ‘I Love You’ Twice & Finding Real Love

Episode Date: October 3, 2025

This week on When Reality Hits, Ben Higgins from The Bachelor opens up about his journey from cubicle life to leading one of TV’s most famous franchises. He reflects on being the first Bachelor to say “I love you” to two women, the pressures of reality TV fame, and what dating was like after the show. Ben also shares how he ultimately found his wife, became a dad, and the lessons he’s learned along the way.Please support the show by checking out our sponsors!Apretude: Bring your A-game and talk to your doctor. Learn more at APRETUDE.com or call 1-888-240-0340.Progressive: Quote your car insurance at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust ProgressiveSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible.ca slash Wondery. That's audible.ca slash Wondery. Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode of when reality hits. This week, we have Ben Higgins from Season 20 of The Bachelor.

There's so much more than I'm going to say. But hello, how are you? Hi, I'm so good. I'm happy to be here. It's fun to chat with you. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for you to be here. You are The Bachelor from Season 20. You're a podcast host from the Ambas famous podcast, co-owner of generous coffee

and author of Alone in Plain sight, correct? That is true. Yes, that is me. Yes. That is you. Whenever I posted that you were going to be on, so many people wrote in and were like, oh, my God, he was one of my favorite bachelors ever. That's sweet.

I want to talk about the book, of course. But whenever I have guests on that we're ever on reality TV, since this show was called When Reality Hits, I like to go back to the beginning. How did you get chosen to be the bachelor? Like, what was that process like for you? Yeah. You know, I love talking about The Bachelor. It's one of the reasons why I can write a book and why coffee can exist in my life.

The Bachelor was such a fun time. I was young. I was 25 when I went on The Bachelorette and 26 when I was the Bachelor. I, in short, the story was I graduated from Indiana University. I could not get a job out of college. And so I kind of got placed in a job through mutual connections out here in Denver, Colorado. It was a great place to work, but I wasn't very good at my job. I didn't actually really like it that much.

And I had moved to Denver without knowing anybody. And so I worked all the time trying to figure out how to be the best I possibly could be what I thought was going to be the rest of my life. So what were you doing? I was selling software. Okay. Just to give a picture of what I was doing and maybe why it didn't fit me so well. I was selling a back office software, which means nobody ever sees it, which means it's

what happens behind the scenes, and it settles your trades online. So if you were to buy any type of stock, this is what is done in the back end. Super boring, right? I have no idea of that stuff. Yeah. And I was writing the user manuals for the end users to use this. And so I was writing user manuals for a living is probably the best way to say it. Yeah.

It didn't fit me. And I knew it, but I thought at the time being young, like, this is what life is. You graduated from college. You get a job. You pay your bills. You go to nine to five and you get health care and you retire one day and then you have fun. But I just, it didn't sit easy with me. So luckily, I had a lady in my office.

She was the chief marketing officer. One day came up to me and said these words. She said, Ben, you work all this. the time. You have no friends in Denver. You're not dating. You're 25 years old. You need to try something different. And I said, I agree. I would love to if that, whatever that may be. She said, if I sign you up for the show, would you go on? And I said, yes, if they called me, I would go on. So we sat down at her computer and we did all the stuff. And then one day, Los Angeles called. And they said, we're interested in having you on the bachelorette.

And so I went on The Bachelorette. Who was the Bachelorette whenever you were on? I can't. Caitlin Bristow. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Amazing. And she was awesome. Yeah. Great. And then when I was eliminated from the show, they said, would you ever be interested in being the Bachelor? And that was a crazy idea for somebody that was still kind of in this mindset of, I'm selling back office software. I am from a little town in a little town. Indiana. I'm 26 years old. That seems crazy that in six months I could be heading up this franchise.

I don't know how I could do it. But I said yes. And it was a really good experience for me. It's not a great experience for everybody. Reality television affects people in different ways. But for me, I think I needed a switch up in life. I needed something exciting to happen. And there's very few things I think more exciting than going from cubicle to bachelor yeah that's a whole life change quickly so whenever they tell you that you're going to be the bachelor you were still single obviously yes luckily how did you like how did you feel about that like what was like yes i'm going to do it like do they pay you guys good is it like you know you're interesting because you have to date like 30 women correct i do yeah there's so much to

it. I think if I'm honest, the excitement of being chosen was a big thought of a big part of my process in saying yes. Yeah. You know, my storyline on The Bachelorette, which is why I do a lot of the things I do today, was that I felt unlikable or unlovable was what I said to Caitlin. And I said it in a moment of vulnerability. And it was really true to me. I didn't realize the response and the reliability to that statement. And so I was coming off of kind of this wave of people not admiring me because I was the hottest dude to ever go on the show or not admiring me because I won. They really related, I think, to my story. And I think that was a great place for me to enter into being the bachelor because it wasn't this, I have to prove myself. It was a, I'm on a journey. And a lot of

people I think were rooting for me. How old were you, whenever you were the bachelor. 26. Okay, that's, that's how old I was whenever I moved from Kentucky to Los Angeles and started banner pump rules. So, like, you're still a baby at that time. I've been doing Rally TV for 10 years now and I look back and I'm like, whenever I was like 17 years old, I thought I was, that was, you know, in your 20s, close to 30, you're so old. You have everything figured out. That was not how it was at all. No, you're right. I mean, I think, being naive at the time actually helped me because you do feel like you you can do it you're an adult i look back i'm like you're you were crazy for saying yes to that at 26 however you're from the midwest

yeah um all my friends have south there's a debate on what kentucky is if nashville's having that argument i think kentucky yeah okay but you get it i'm sure where you're from a lot of your friends were married A lot of your friends even at 26 were having kids. Oh, so many. So I was out here in Denver feeling so far behind. I at that time felt like, my goodness, my friends' kids are starting kindergarten because they had them at 21. They're married four years in.

I think at the time, this was kind of a push for me to get serious about dating. I think I was ready and I could have been ready. to get married and to settle down. I think the good Lord above that I didn't get married at 26. I didn't get married. It does. At the time, it felt like the world was falling down around me. But, you know, I do think I went in, I think, to my credit, being naive, I think it helped me. I went into it ready to meet somebody, but glad I didn't because it wasn't ready.

I think as I look back now. Yeah. I love that you're talking about how you were naive. A lot of people think that's like, you know, such a negative thing. But I was very naive whenever I started my reality TV journey. I had never watched Vanderpump Rules before I got on. So it was very much a brand new world for me. And a lot of people were always like, you're so naive, you blah, blah, blah.

I just wanted to see the best in everybody. And that's just kind of my mindset. I think from where we're from, you know, there are a lot of stereotypes. So I was like, you do have to get married young. You do have to have kids young. And I always thought I was going to have so many kids. I was going to be the first one in my friend group. And that just was not happening to me.

So I completely understand. A lot of people wrote in about you talking about your love triangle on The Bachelor. Oh, yeah. I know this has been years and years and you are in a much different place now. Yeah. But how did you take all that like? you know, backlash or even just dealing with that on a public platform that you had to stick between two girls.

Yeah. There's a lot behind that. I think it's a great question. And I think there's just still so much that I'm learning about that season. You know, I think for me, I went into being The Bachelor grounded in my faith, or at least the best I could be at 26. And that helped me a ton. It did.

It helped me have something to fall back on. Also within that was this deep desire. I remember my kind of motto to myself the whole time was there's 30 women showing up. Maybe one will be standing at the end. I'm going to be feeling like I'm rejecting a lot of people. I don't love that thought. Yeah. And they're going to have to feel rejected, which I don't love that thought.

But there's no way around this. And so I just kind of went into it with this. I hope everybody is happy that they did it. Like I hope they go home, they unpack and they say, I'm just glad I gave this a shot. Well, we get to the end, and real feelings start to develop. Real love starts to develop. And for me personally, I found myself at the end with two amazing people.

And I think that's one thing I'm very grateful for, and one thing I would never shy away from. But in a sense, my excuse was I was set up for failure during my time on the show. That's my excuse. Now, I made the decisions. But the tagline of my season was the perfect Ben instead of the perfect 10. And I, because of my faith and just because of life, know that nobody's perfect. And goodness gracious, walking through being on reality television show in a perfect way is never going to happen.

No, never. So I was going to let people down. And this was kind of the moment I did it. Now it's happened so many times since my time on the show. So many people have said since my time on the show. I love you to two people. But that's what I did. Did I feel that way?

I think in a lot of ways I did. Should I have communicated it? I don't think so. I don't think it was healthy for anybody. I thought at the time, going back to my original motto, was it would at least give both people the reassurance that I was happy that they were there and that this was hard for us and that this wasn't ideal. I look back now, obviously, and like you said, I am a different season of life.

and both of the final two are now married. I'm married. And I look back and I now look at it as I'm grateful that I was at the end so conflicted and in a place where I had two people that I still to this day look at and go, yeah, goodness gracious, Ben, of course you would be into these people. They're amazing. They're awesome. Beautiful and great people.

Yeah. But I think my mistake was in communicating it. I think my mistake was in a lot of ways. I think you could say I let Jojo on, who ended up in second. I did. And I think that's unfair to her. I think it was unfair to, you know, to me in a lot of ways. But I think it was not the correct and wise decision.

However, you look back now and I'm like, well, it all worked out. Because because I said that, you know, Jojo becomes the bachelorette and she's married to the guy she chose and they're a kid on the way. so yes it all works out but at the time it's really tough and you asked how i dealt with the criticism i i think um being young i think it affected me deeply because all i wanted to do was come off this show and i think i was set up because of my time on the bachelor where i said i feel unlovable unlikable where so many people were kind to me it's kind of an underdog story in a lot of ways people love the underdog then you become the bachelor and you can't be the that underdog anymore you're the bachelor like you've given that title out up um and so it hurt

because i felt very much alone uh and i think how the human brain works is for every thousand nice comments you receive the one negative is going to stand out to you i talk about that so much on this podcast like the trolls the mean like it's it's a lot to deal with that most people will never understand well i actually would maybe disagree with you too where I'm speaking a lot now in high schools and middle schools and they're getting it, right? I mean, say you're somebody without a following and you've got a hundred people following you and you post a picture and there's five comments and one is mean, four very nice. It's really affecting people today.

And I think the massive amount of comments actually in a lot of ways helps me because I realize that, well, the only reason people have an opinion of my life is because they follow me on a show. And I'm proud that I said yes to that experience. Yeah. You asked also if they pay you a lot. No, goodness. I didn't know if like the bachelor, like the main person on the show got paid. Like I heard like it was like a million dollars. Is that saying? Maybe it is today. I would say that I would have received less than one tenth of that to be the bachelor. Oh, wow. Okay. This ad is brought to you by VEVE Healthcare. The makers of Appritude, Cabotegrivir. You never skip your SPF and you carry hand sanitizer like an accessory.

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And also going back to that, like, trust me, I also talk about a lot, like, how kids these days are never going to be able to escape. Like, back whenever, I was growing up. We didn't have social media. We had AIM. We finally got MySpace. We get Facebook like towards like my high school college years and stuff like that. So I completely agree that like kids are going through it way more than we ever had to. I just mean that like whenever you're on a reality TV show, so many people have comments about your life. And it's a whole new world for somebody who never dealt with that before. Yeah. And I think the one thing may be different. too that is people make huge assumptions about our life. Yeah. Yeah. And that hurts a lot of times because they're very far from the truth. And you can't please everybody. And so I think in my life and being around the Bachelor still, I don't know if you feel this way, but I think one thing that happens is people try to change to adapt to be this character of themselves so that they don't get as many negative comments.

Yeah. Well, five years from then they, they don't recognize the person that they are. And it becomes exhausting. And so I do. I think it's a really difficult process for people to go through. And I do, though, I do think that it is something that those of us from reality television, those of us who have, you know, have been given a platform can now start to share with the younger generation because now they're going through it and they didn't necessarily ask for it.

I asked for it. I said, hey, you know what? put me out there, let me go on TV. Some of these people are just doing it because, you know, it's that, you know, having a social media is the accepted thing to do. Yeah. I have three brothers and one sister and they like never use social media. And I'm like, this must be a perfect world.

Like with the comments, you're just living your life. Like everything is fabulous, you know. How like whatever you did have to do. to make those decisions of cutting people off the show, you know, you had to give them their rows as being somebody that's a good guy that doesn't want to hurt anybody's feelings. I'm very much a people pleaser. I don't want to ever hurt people's feelings. I'm always trying to get along with everybody.

How were you able to handle that? And what was your process like to give somebody a rose or to not give somebody a rose, like the behind the scenes? Sure. Yeah. This will probably not be accepted. accepted. But one of my strategies, I called up a friend of mine who was a mentor, who was the CEO of a pretty large company. And in a lot of ways, being on The Bachelor is like firing

somebody. It's not a breakup, especially for the first few weeks. You barely know the person. You've maybe been around him a few minutes. You're practicing their name before the date, so you don't forget even what their name is. And so I called them. I said, how do you fire people. Like, how do you let people go from your company? Because I kind of thought of it in the same way. And he says, you do it quick. You don't dance around. You don't say a nice of a lot of niceties. You stick to the point and you do it quick. And that's kind of my strategy when I was the bachelor. Because as soon as I knew, it was time. And I did it as quick as I possibly could without kind of flowering it up unless I really meant it,

and I really meant the things I was going to say leading up to it. But if there was just a, hey, it's time to go, it's time to be done here, that's kind of how I did it. It wasn't necessarily easier, I don't think. I don't know how, I don't have anything to compare it to. Yeah. But what it did do is it didn't kind of, I think, it forced me to, to try to dance around the topic. It's easier just to get it done with. So that was my strategy.

I don't know if it worked better or worse. Rip the Band-Aid off. You rip the Band-A-off and you say, hey, thanks for coming. I appreciate you being here. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. It seems like you had a up-and-down journey, but at the end of the day, you're glad that you did it. Yeah, I would actually say it's funny today when people, because every season, and since mine, which wasn't, you know, a short time ago. It's been a bit. There's been a lot of seasons. Every lead, I think, except one, has told two people they're in love with them or falling in love with them. And every year, I get the comments of, you know, Ben started it. I started

it. Were you the first one that, like, fell in love on camera? No, I was the first one to tell two people that. Two people. Okay. But I think it happened. before they just hadn't shown it, is my theory. And so, you know, I come out of it now. And I'm really glad I did it because it did hand me a platform. It did open up new opportunities. It did give me a blue check mark. So my wife responded to my DM that I sent her.

I'm going to get into this. I want to get into that. He said he obviously is, you know, checked out, both my health. side and also from, you know, a background check. So I, and today I look at it, and it's still so fun for me to talk about the show and to have this thing that people want to talk to me about. And it also has increased the ability for me, as you came on and said, to talk about the Bachelor and then also get to talk about the things that have happened since the Bachelor.

For me, that's a huge gift. And I would never not be thankful for that. I think about it all the time. Like, my son has autism and it's such a big topic in the world right now. And for me, it's my real life. It's my real everyday life. And I'm so grateful that I have this platform where I can share my journey and help other parents and things that are going through something like that.

So I 100% agree. Like, there are so many good positive things that come from it, whether or not you ended up marrying somebody on the show or whatever your journey was like, there are so many great things that can come from it. So you were starting to talk about your wife, which I am so happy for you. Was it hard to date after being in the spotlight? Like, did you, for me, because I was on TV for a very long time with, I got engaged on a show, I got married on a show, and now I'm going through a divorce on a show.

So now being in the dating world and dating people and doing all this stuff, there has been many times where I felt like I can't trust anybody and it's hard to know like people's intentions. So what was that like for you dating after The Bachelor? It was a journey for sure. I relate with a lot of things you're saying. You know, you go through not a divorce, but a public breakup after almost two years of being together and people know you two together and if you googled my name right now pictures of the two of us would pop up together even though she married jack's taylor's ex-wife i'm like can we yeah down i'd call to figure that one it's you know and it's hard because people pick sides uh as i'm sure

you're experiencing from the public people are saying things critical of you and critical of your partner. And neither one is necessarily healthy or beneficial. Neither one is something I wanted or asked for. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that nobody will ever know leading up to this very real breakup, this very real love, you know, story ending and us deciding to split and go our separate ways. Sorry to cut you all, but you guys stayed for two years after the show? Yes. Almost. A little short of two years. A little short of it. And so it's hard, Bernie, it is. It's hard because you're dealing with this very real thing in your world and your life that you don't know how to go, you know, deal, navigate.

So for me, I dated one person in between my wife and the breakup from the show. They were incredible. Unfortunately, they came into my life at a time where I was still crying on the couch in front of them about this past relationship, right? I think you would call that, I don't know, a bridge. She was incredible. She has, she did not deserve to be a bridge. I did not treat her well to bring her into that. Those people would call it a rebound.

A rebound maybe is a, yeah. And so we ended it. And I called my buddies. And at this point, I was, what, 29, 28? And I was talking to him about this whole thing. And my friend said, you need to start messaging girls on Instagram. because you know what like people right now still know who you are and they might say yes to these dates um so like shoot your shot ben and i thought that was super creepy at the time super

but luckily i was in national for a fundraiser one night uh got on instagram because there was a hockey team checking into my hotel and i was super single um wasn't dating wasn't talking to anybody and I pulled up the pictures from my hotel to see what hockey team it was. And my now wife was at Bridgestone Arena, which is right next to where I was staying for a hockey game with, she was actually on a date. And I saw her picture and I said, that girl is gorgeous. And so I screenshot it because I didn't want to, I didn't want a messenger that's creepy. Well, Thanksgiving rolls around many months later and I'm drinking at Thanksgiving. and having a great time, and I'm laying in bed that night.

My phone had ran out of storage space during the day, so I was deleting old pictures, come across this screenshot that I took of her. And I still was not dating. So I just sent her a message, and I said, I don't know if you're single. I don't know if you're ever in Denver. But if you aren't single and you've never been to Denver, take this as a compliment.

If you are single and you plan on visiting Denver, I would love to take you out sometime. Oh, it's so sweet and not creepy. I know. I found a way to navigate it. I think it probably took me a lot of run-ups to be like, you know, figure that out. And she responded. And we never stopped talking since.

I don't think there's been a day that's gone by that we have texted at the beginning and then FaceTime. Then she came to visit me. I have a couple restaurants out here in Denver. So my very first ever restaurant opening, she was able to come to. She flew in that night and was able to come to that. So it's a really beautiful story to me. She's the most incredible human in the world. She still is this day.

I thank God every day that I checked Instagram that night. Oh, I love that. That's how we met. That is so sweet. I love that you screenshot and then thought about her again. Like that is so sweet. Her name's Jessica, right? Yeah.

Yes. And how long have you been together now? Well, we've been together, geez, way before COVID. So six years, we're coming up on four years of marriage. Wow. Congratulations. Yeah, we just had a baby girl. Jessica's crushing it. She has an incredible skin. She's an esthetician by trade. So she's doing a bunch of stuff I don't understand to people. She's really good at it.

And her business is exploding. And she cares deeply about that. And she's an incredible mom. Well, if you guys come to L.A., hook me up. I will. I would love that. And how old your daughter? She's almost eight months old. Oh, my gosh. I remember that age. since four now, Tom, flies. It flies so fast. You caught me on the first day I've ever looked at her and cried. Oh, really? Yeah, I've been gone a lot this month for work. And I got home late last night. And this morning, I woke up to her in this little dress. And she was sitting on the floor and she just gave me the biggest smile and she looked so pretty. And I lost it. She's the

cutest, most fun gift to our family. It's the best. That's amazing. I went on your Instagram and I was doing some research on you guys and she is absolutely adorable. I'm so happy for you. Do you plan on having more kids? Is that something you want in your future? Yes. If my wife had it her way, we would have four like tomorrow. Oh, I love that. I'm trying to slow down. I'm an only child. So I'm like a little bit intimidated by the idea of more than one. But I'm excited about more than one because it's been so great. I told Jess, when I found out she was pregnant, honestly, a lot of like fear and anxiety came over me for nine months. How am I supposed to do this?

How is our dog going to react? How are we supposed to function in this world with a baby? And now, if Jessica told me tomorrow she's pregnant, I think it would just be an elation of joy. because I see the beauty of having a child in our lives. So, yes, we will be, I'm assuming soon, I'm going to get the, hey, Ben, let's start trying, which I'm very excited about. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

So fun for the guy. Yeah, cap me in. I'm tweeting. Yeah. Well, that's amazing. I do have to ask you, after being on. such a very, very popular show. Bachelor Night Gen is absolutely huge. Do you think reality TV changed you at all? Oh, I think it did for a period of time. And I'm sure it did today. Like, I'm a different

person because of the show than I would have been without the show for sure. I don't obviously know what it would have been without the show. But I think, you know, I know we're going to talk about it because of the book. But like that story's brought out a lot in the book where I come off the show and it's a euphoric feeling to be recognized. It's a beautiful feeling to go random places and have people know who you are and have ask for photos and random things, yeah. It changes the way you operate in the world. And it's very exciting.

I don't think humans are meant to be famous. I don't think any of us handle fame super well. But when it was at the peak, I was loving it. But I called a friend of mine one day because I was doing all these really cool things. But I was doing him alone. Yeah. You know, I didn't have anybody to share it with. I was at this point just operating in this world and doing all these amazing things.

And I called my buddy and I was telling him about that. And he said, Ben, what if this is never meant to be about you? What if this is always meant to be about something greater than you? And as soon as he said those words to me, I believe him because I know he loves me and he has my best interest in mind. on my team. And I said, okay, what can I do with this new handed platform to not maybe increase my brand all the time, to not continue to try to stay relevant and to not continue to try to do things to stay in the headlines?

But what if I start to focus outward? And I think that brought me back to center, honestly. It brought me a lot more joy. It took the pressure off in a lot of ways. And so I do think it kind of refocused me. And then I had a second friend to answer your question. Say something in a similar period, at a similar period of time. He said, use this whole thing.

Chris Harrison, actually, the former host of the show. Yeah. He said something to me over drinks one night. He said, Ben, use this to increase, to enhance the things you've already cared about, not change your life completely. And as soon as I took those two things to heart and started doing those, then I felt like I became more of myself again. So I have a journal.

I have the book, right, that started way before the show. I can look back and recognize the person that existed before the Bachelor ever happened. I think I'm a different human because of the show, but I don't think I'm unrecognizable maybe to myself. Yeah. No, you seem like a wonderful person, just so you know. Well, that's sweet. You do. When Reality Hits is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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I always tell people when they become The Bachelor, because I talk to most of them, I don't talk to all the Bachelorette. I say before you ever show up to set, write down the things that are important to you now, write down who you are. Right. Like, who are you if every title, everything in your life is stripped away? Who is left standing? Write that down. And then once all this is done, revisit that. Revisit the words that you said so that you don't lose yourself in the process. That's one. Yeah. I actually have always said, don't let your head get too big. But I had somebody this weekend. I was hosting a conference called MomCon in Orlando, Florida. It's where 3,500 moms get together and go wild for a few days. And the co-host with me, is an incredible speaker and intellectual. And she told me something that actually thinks a better way to say that. I'm going to start sharing this, but I have to give her credit. Carrie Scott Garcia shared this with me. She said, people will throw stones and people will throw roses at your feet when you reach a place of being known.

Don't pick up either. Wow. And so I think that's going to be my new words. Yeah, that's amazing. And I will always give her credit for that. I won't take that. But I think it's true. I think there's a piece of advice.

And then try to have fun with it. I didn't have any fun. I really didn't. You didn't have any fun while you were doing it? I was so stressed. I was so nervous. They were just so anxious the whole time. It wasn't anybody's fault but my own.

But I was so nervous about the whole thing and about the pressure of the whole thing that I didn't allow myself just to experience it and have joy in it. So try to have fun with it because it's going to be. be one of the most fun times of your life if you let it be yeah i feel like i'm such a competitive person so i always wonder on the bachelor like are these people actually having real connections and like really falling in love or is a lot of it like i'm in a competition and i want to win you know what i mean and i hate saying that but just as somebody who's never been on like a dating job i always wonder that. Yeah, well, the bachelor has started to bring celebrities in to be the next

Bachelorette. So you could probably put your name out there if you ever want to experience it. But I think it's a mix of both. I think there are times where real connections are had. I think it's you get 30 people. So like there's a good chance. One of those people, at least, is going to be somebody that you're intrigued by or interested in. But I do think the competition side is what fuels the show, keeps people around. It gives people validation. So I think it's a good mix of both. I know I felt both. You know, I didn't want to go home night one. Goodness, how bad would that have been for my ego? Like, I already felt unlikable and lovable. Sent home night one. Like what happened to me? I was just found special forces

and I left on the first day and I'm so embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can see. I think that just you sing yes to that. Yeah. I think it's something that you can honestly take pride in even like showing up i just got a freaking helicopter and i'm terrified of heights okay so i'm very proud of that you just be proud that you went yes yeah um well speaking of that before we get into the book this would be my last question how do you feel about somebody like taylor frankie paul you know what what's the show called uh the secret lives of Mormon wives how do you feel about that do you think it should you think that's a good shift to go to somebody that's more well known or do you think that it should say the way that it's been for years and years and

years and years and years yeah well i think the show's struggling i think the bachelor is and bachelor is struggling i think they've navigated a bunch of issues which every shows had to um and they've made they've done it well at times and done it poorly at times and i think we're seeing the repercussions of that um viewership is down for a lot of shows right this isn't just a bachelor problem yeah yeah But I think that is important to recognize that, you know what? This is a network television problem at this point, is how do you keep viewership alive? Because of all the streaming services and stuff. It's so different than it used to be.

Streaming and distractions and the fact that maybe social media, people just aren't sitting down, right? There's other forms of entertainment, which is actually something I think we should celebrate. Yeah. Is that we can be entertained in multiple ways. Well, I'm still on TV, so let's try to give people. Well, we should 100% tune in to Vanderpump Rules. Not the Valley, the Valley, the Valley. Vanderpump Rules now the Valley.

100% tune into the Valley. That's right. But when it comes to choosing a celebrity or somebody more well-known, you know, I know Taylor Frankie Paul, I don't, to preface this, I don't know her story super well. I know her story based on what I've received from listeners and my wife. Yeah. You know,

what I think there is controversy within her story. So, but everybody deserves a chance at love. They do. That's what the show has always been built on. And so I'm hoping they, you know,

can show that. And honestly, that just sounds like a really politically correct answer to say, I don't know how this is going to play out, but I know people are really fired up. Yeah. They're having somebody like her on there with, you know,

the backstory and the legal issues that she's had. I get that. And I think that's totally fine for people to have an opinion on those things. and not be okay with it. Yeah. My concern with just anybody of being well known coming on the show is I don't know where they go from here. How do they top it, right? Are they going to continue to make this the celebrity dating show where you can date a celebrity?

What does that mean about the ethos of the show where the bread and butter has always been that, hey, we're actually finding people that are really wanting love and not just trying to get famous and not just trying to make money that they actually really want love? Now, if that's true or not, I don't know anymore. Yeah. But when I was there, I know most of the men when I was on The Bachelor were really there for the experience and for the potential opportunity to maybe meet their forever person. So I think it's a dangerous pivot, not because of who they chose. If we could somehow isolate that.

I think I just don't understand how the show continues on five years from now if this is the precedent that they're setting now. is it always going to be somebody well known from here on out or like is the next bachelor going to be somebody from her season is it going to go back to that way or a lot of people want um steve irwin's son because he's on dancing with the stars right now like everybody's like i would love for him to be on the bachelor you know he's cute as a button so i think that'll be great um so yeah i understand what you mean by that i do like the fact that she's a mom because a lot of single moms are kind of told or in this, you know, category that they wouldn't be able to date or find somebody that would accept their children and things like that, which I know wasn't true. I had amazing stepfather my entire life. Like there are an amazing stepmother, but I do like that aspect that she's a mom. Yeah, I think there's great opportunity.

I think it's going to bring a new viewership. I think the show is trying to hit a home run and we'll see if the home run lands. I'm sure it wasn't cheap to bring her on as The Bachelorette. Yeah, she might be making a million. Yeah. Who knows? I'm sure she would laugh if she knew what maybe some of us, others, got. But I'm also, I don't know her well enough to know if she's really wanting love.

But I hope she is. Because if not, this is going to be a really bad look for her. The backer makes the fans are fierce. I agree. It needs to be like she genuinely wants to find love. And hopefully that's what it is. Yeah. Okay, let's get into your book.

Alone in plain sight, searching for connection when you're seen but not known. It's re-releasing October 7th. In this updated release, Ben reveals how public success mass private struggles with identity, isolation, and the ache to be truly known. Now a husband and a new dad, he adds a deeply personal chapter on how major life transitions magnify our need for real connection, a topic more urgent now than ever. why did you feel like it was important to revise and re-release the book now well i mean i think you know again i feel like a guy just coming up with excuses today for you but uh alone in plain sight was this like really deeply personal um project for me uh that i spent a lot of time working on and we have all these big plans for it and it releases literally February of COVID

like in the heart of it i mean nobody was doing anything everybody was still super scared everybody's locked inside and so this book gets released into the world and nobody can go read it unless they buy it online um we can't gather together to discuss it i can't go and share i can't do any signings and so it's no no nothing like that to actually like talk to every zero yeah zero things and so it was really sad for me where i felt like this thing i cared so much about that was the first time that I really put my own personal effort into something that wasn't produced, you know, kind of got released. And then it was so quiet around it. And I thought that was unfair to me. I think it's unfair to the people because this book is my story, but it's

the story of six others who have deeply impacted my life. And it is a book built in four parts. one, connection with self. How do we find ourselves again? Two, connection and friendship. How do we build a community around us to lift us up and also hold us accountable? And how do we do that in a healthy way. The third part is connection and romance. If you're single and not looking, how beautiful that is, how wonderful it is with the opportunity is to be single in this world and that the world doesn't tell us that, especially the church world is not, you know, I was really pushing you, get married, have kids. I grew up in a very religious family, and I still am a Christian woman and I, you know, but I know what you're talking about. It's really tough. It's really hard. And so you feel isolated.

You feel like these deep desires of your soul to maybe just be single and operate in the world in a single way are not accepted. But also if you're single and looking, and then if you're married, what does it look like to be married? We get to talk to a couple who's been married for 70 plus years and what have they learned along the way. And then the final was the connection chapters, our connection with God, something greater than ourselves is what I call it in the book. And so this book is meant and designed for somebody out there who's feeling isolated and alone. You know, we, I can't put

all the words down to completely relate with somebody. But I'm hoping readers read it and they just recognize pieces of themselves within the stories that are shared. And then they close the book and just feel less alone. No matter what part of their story they're in, they just can feel less alone so they can make it one more day, one more breath, or maybe, ideally, get out there and start caring for the others around them who are maybe feeling alone and recognizing that people do feel like outsiders sometimes in this world. And so that's my hope for alone in plain sight.

It has always been my hope for alone in plain sight. and I think we're years removed from the original release life has happened to me that I've learned a lot about along the way which is why we're releasing it with yeah I was going to ask you if you can share a little insight on the new chapter like fatherhood and why you think like other dads need to hear it sure yeah well I mean obviously you you know this being a parent uh changes your life more than anything else and I think from what I hear in anybody that I'm you know anytime I'm out in a public setting today and we're talking about things that actually matter people are telling me um you know especially those who don't have kids i don't necessarily want to have kids because it's so scary or it doesn't seem that great and i really want to change that narrative to something that i think is very truth filled it's not easy no but it's the greatest thing you can ever do it is so much the best love you'll ever feel it's like whenever you saw your daughter for the first time it's it's something that like

whenever I saw Cruz for the first time, that's my son, I never felt a love like that ever in my entire life. It's all amazing. It's amazing. It's worth it. So part of it is as a parent is communicating to those who are wanting to have kids or adopt kids or bring a family around them is to like tell them something that maybe they're not hearing enough of, which is this is good. And explain why it's good within those chapters. It's good. Yes, my golf handicap has been effective. it a little bit. Not super bad. I'll get back. I'll be fine. But it's been absolutely incredible. So that's one really important note. The other is being a husband and what I've learned about myself through marriage and what it looks like for me to lay myself at the feet of my wife and for her to do

the same and how do we support each other well, knowing that we're completely vulnerable and we're completely on each other's teams. And we're trying to figure this thing out while navigating life with another human who has their own interests and how do I support those well and how does she support me well as we pursue these dreams that we've always had as kids and that marriage doesn't mean that I become less of the person than I am entering into it. I become more of the person that I've ever wanted to be because I have somebody on my team now and talking through some of these things that I think at least from my perspective have gotten convoluted over the years and have gotten mis they've just been misunderstood and told different things.

I want to clarify it and say, no, this can still be some of the best decisions you ever make. And if this is something you're interested in, here's some of the advantages to it. I love that. What's it like to be in a grown-up relationship? You take it so you make it. Right? Oh, my goodness. Well, that's amazing.

Everybody, make sure you check out a loan and plain sight, re-releasing October 7th. Is there anything else you want the world to know about this? Well, I would love to share, too, if you're not a reader and you're like, that sounds terrible. If you're a coffee drinker, I run a company called Generous Coffee. It is my full-time focus. I have the hat on right now to prove it. Generous Coffee is Generouscoffee.com. We sell coffee wholesale and retail.

and then we donate 100% of our profits to non-profit. So I don't make any money on it. The co-owners don't make money on it. It is a fundraising tool for organizations out there doing the good fight to help people all around the globe and both and also domestically. And so if you're a coffee drinker, I always say my tagline is you're going to drink coffee anyways, why not make it life-changing coffee? And so I would love for people. I love that you have taglines for everything like you're a housewife.

Yeah. You got to, well, you do these things. You got to keep them short and sweet. You got to get memorable. So these snippets, right? They're going to leave here with feeling, I feel less alone. And they're going to say, you know, I drink coffee anyways. Why not make it life changing coffee? And maybe we'll have a buyer or two. Are there certain charities that you work with? Yeah, they have to be human focused. And so we've supported over 30 organizations, $250,000 has been able to have been given, which is a awesome. We wouldn't grow that. Convoy of Hope, International Justice Mission, which is a mission to help bring people out of human slavery. And then Project Hope, which is focused on disaster relief and health care initiatives are kind of our three main go-toes. And then we have a bunch of others who have kind of come through the path and we've been able to support along the way. That's incredible, Ben. I'm so happy for you and, like, I'm so happy for you and, like, proud of you and I just met you for the first time, but that's an incredible thing. I'm going to go get me

some generous coffee. Right off here to help you and support you. Two questions that I ask everybody that comes on the podcast before they leave. Since this is a lot about reality TV, what is your favorite reality TV show right now? I mean, that's tough. I would say

well, I just watched the perfect match and it had me glued because these people are doing things with ice cubes that I would never do on national television. I was like, I love watching somebody else do this. I just couldn't. Exactly. Okay, the perfect match. And then who is your favorite reality TV star of all time? That's, you know what, that's, I'd say, Brittany Cartwright is probably up there. She's a sweetheart. You know, I've gotten to meet a few along the way. I would say one that has always stood out to me.

Welles Adams is still hosting a Bachelor in Paradise or doing the bartending role. He's one of my best friends in the world. And he's crushing it. Eight years later, he wasn't even The Bachelor. And somehow he's figured out how to keep a living going on in this show. He had the same manager, so I get it. Yeah, that's like a brilliant move by him. And he's crushing it.

And so I am always just proud of him and a big fan of his. Yeah, Wells has been on the show before. And him and Sarah, whenever we had the bar, used to come in and stuff. So I've met them a couple times. They're amazing people. Just awesome. That is so great. Okay, Ben, tell everybody where to find you.

Yeah, you can find me at Higgins. Ben on Instagram. And also you can go and order the book at d Benhigginsbook.com. And finally, Generouscoffee.com is where you can get a lot of the updates on what I'm doing every day in my life. And I'll close out this interview and I'll pull up a spreadsheet and figure out how I can sell more coffee, you know, to keep things going. let's all go by the coffee all go by the book listen to your podcast right yeah oh yeah almost

famous almost famous podcast yeah that's a big deal I guess yes it is it keeps it keeps food on my table so yes well I'm excited for your future congratulations on your beautiful wife and your beautiful daughter and it was awesome to talk to you today thank you so much for coming on well thank you for having me it means a lot of course thanks everybody for tuning into when reality hits we'll see you next week This October, Fear is free on Pluto TV with horror movie collections from paranormal activity, The Ring. You will die in seven days. Scream.

And from dusk till dawn. This is my kind of place. And don't miss the man-made nightmares in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, or the world ending chaos in 28 days later. There's something in the blood. All the scares, all for free. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.