Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Andrew McCarthy

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Actor, director, and writer Andrew McCarthy talks to Ted Danson about why he wanted to examine male loneliness in his new book, “Who Needs Friends.” They also get into father-son relationships, Andrew’s experience walking the Camino de Santiago, how “Cheers” helped him get sober, his meteoric rise in Hollywood, and much more.    Like watching your podcasts?  Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I did Pretty and Pink after that, and that really gave me a career. Then I started being able to have sex with people. Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. Today I'm talking to the gifted actor, director, and writer Andrew McCarthy. You know him from films like Pretty and Pink, St. Elmo's Fire, Weekend at Burnies. He also is the author of a timely new book exploring male friendship and loneliness called Who Needs, friends. Meet a man of many talents, Andrew McCarthy. Of all the people that I've ever met, my daughter,

was so excited I was meeting you because the good place. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. She was so excited. So wait, how old is he? She's 19 now. But she saw it when she was the younger deal. Yeah, but like she's watched the whole series over and over again. And like, it's like big. Mike Shore, who did arrest the writer-creator, arrested development, parks and rec, all these amazing things, really wrote an amazing show because it's about ethics,

it's about purposeful living, wrapped in a nine-year-old fart sense of humor and with special effects. Yeah. It was kind of brilliant. It was great. Well, say hi to her and thank her. I will. And she knows she has very good taste, so.

Nice. She does. She has nice judgment because there are other people like, Dad, no. Guys, no. He's mid. He's mid. You know, mid. Mid is, or, you know, it's lame.

Man. Anyhow. Oh, Lordy. Kids, humbling. Yeah. Do you have how many you have? We have four. I had two girls and Mary had a girl and a boy.

And we got together when I was 45 and she was 40. and now we have them and five grandchildren. My God. Yeah, it really is like 12 to table when we sit down. Nice. Yeah, it really is nice. And we just had that moment with most of our kids yesterday, Easter. Yeah, you just got off an airplane.

I did, yeah. I just came, we had that Easter yesterday, but there are only five of us there. I have three kids. Yeah, I just got off the plane from New York. Thank you for doing this. Your conversation that you are having going around talking about your book, who needs friends, is the conversation I absolutely love. I've listened to a couple of interviews that you've had about it,

so I hope I'm not covering the same ground. But this whole idea of building a sense of community has become, I think, so important in our world today. And that is, in a way, one of the side effects. of what you were doing and your road trip. Well, that's all about what it's about. Yeah. You said it's not?

It is. That's entirely what it's about. And that sense of connection. But I mean, I'm a guy that's very often disconnected. So when I told my wife, I was writing a book about friendships, she looked at me and said, are you fucking kidding me? You? I said, who better to write the book?

Because I'm someone who's very not connected in many ways. And I'm very happy in my own company and very sort of, I can, my solitude can veer over into isolation very quickly. But so I thought the idea of connection, I mean, I'm aware, because I skirt around the edges of it, I'm aware how important it is. And I realize I'm a better person when I happen, but I often do without it.

See, when you described yourself, you're describing me in many ways. Really? Yeah, I mean, I... You seem so gregarious and outgoing. I am, but there's gregarious that slaps you on the back, goes, Andrew, man, I love your work. And that's got to do you.

I can be as surfacy as anyone in Hollywood or mean it, you know, because we've just worked together and it was the best time ever and let's make sure we get together and you don't. I mean, our jobs sometimes lead to that unless you're Woody Harrelson, who's not here today, as you can see. He's here sometimes. He is an example of somebody who makes friends all over the world for real and stays in touch and they flock to him wherever he is shooting and whatever part of the world. He does have that personality. He does. He does. He just very attractive and winning and just, you just feel safe and fun and like, yeah, let's hang, dude. And you light up. So why not? That helps.

But I was the guy who always was like, yeah, no, no, it sounds great. I'll catch up with you. Don't wait for me. And never ever, ever did. It's me. I'll catch up. Don't wait. Yeah. Also, I'm the person who feels like, it's very nice. to be with a guy. It's relaxing. It's lovely. But it's beside the point. Women truly is where the point is.

And that's probably because of how I was raised. My mother made more sense to me than my father did logically, kind of emotionally. So I'm married to this astounding human being that I didn't find until I was 45. So I do rush home to her because I enjoy being with her. Do I still fall into a lonely man? Yeah, but that's a really interesting thing, that notion of, well, it's kind of beside the point. Like, yeah, friends with the guy, okay, yeah, that's fun. But that's really interesting.

I'd never heard it put so or take. I'm very much the same way. It's like, but that tells you where your psyche has been the whole time. It's really interesting that. I always felt safer with women. I felt maybe exactly because I was very afraid of my father when I was growing up. So I was, you know, I felt very close to my mother in this sort of secret way. So I understood quickly how to deal with women.

And I had three brothers. So, I mean, I was around guys all the time. But, and it's interesting, most of my guys, my brother, my older brother Peter, is my protector. And so when I went out into the world and we sort of drifted apart through life and things happening and just getting your own lives, all my friends, particularly even the guys I talk about in this book, were physically larger than me and slightly older than me and had the same quality of protection. You know, people, when I was doing this book, I asked a lot of people what the one word they would say for friendship was, and most people said trust. And someone asked me, phone, and I said, safety, a feeling of safety,

which encompasses trust, but it's something more than trust. It's just like you're looked after. I hadn't thought of that, but I feel the same way. I mean, my sense of humor came from finding the bully on the playground and making that bully laugh. And then I was the funny guy. So you didn't get punched. So it was about safety alive.

But you were also physically big the whole time. You were very, weren't you? You made big guys and bullies nervous, not because I was a threat because I was six foot and 120 pounds. They were afraid if they hit me, I would shatter into million pieces. Because I was very little physically,

and I always felt very physically small and frail. I mean, I guess at some point it stopped being an issue, but when I was young, I always felt very insignificant physically. Yeah. So, but I also felt that way emotionally, too, this whole sense of, when I was doing this road trip, it brought up this whole notion of like, what is manhood, you know, having the books about male friendship. And so then it was, well, what is the idea of manhood? And it kicked up my whole thing in me where I always felt for years and years sort of that I was insignificant in the sense of manhood.

You know, manhood in America has become, since John Wayne, I guess, since post-World War II, it's become the sort of macho, carry your own water, be physically strong, emotionally self-contained, carry your own water, and just deal with it. And I was made my living on being, you know, a sensitive young actor. And so I was not that. I was never going to be that macho, strong, hard guy. And so I always sort of went under it in a certain way and felt very, but I, but inside, I felt very not man enough, whatever that meant. And it stayed with me for decades. Yeah. Decades. Wow. So many, I should stop trying to, you know, make connections between us, but I felt very much the same way. I kind of picked my mother because my father wasn't really emotionally

available, so his bluster didn't feel real because he was being surfacy about emotions. My mother was much, made much more sense to me. But because of that, I was a little bit of her confidence That's exactly. Dude, we have the same life. That's exactly what I was. Like, I was afraid of my father because he was very, had a volatile, he was very angry guy. And only on his deathbed did I come to realize that was all fear.

Yeah. You know, but my dad used to tell me he loved me, like, you know, all the time, five times a day. Oh, me too. And my father wasn't angry, so much. It was just emotionally unavailable, but go on, please, sorry. No, yeah, I wasn't trying to place, overlay them. entirely. But my dad would tell me he loved me and then I thought as a small kid, like,

well, how can that be? Because I'm terrified of you and you're yelling at me. If you're not telling me you love me, you're screaming at me. So I took that to me. Like I just couldn't reconcile those two things. So it was just really, anyway. So when I, like my kids now, I tell my kids and they tell me they love each other. Like my father who would say, I love you, I love you, pal. And I don't. always have to say, I love you too, Dad. But I just felt it was such hypocrisy because it's like, I don't, because I'm terrified of you. I don't. I mean, I guess I love you. You're my father, but I was terrified of you. And like my kids, we say that all the time. And recently my son said, love you,

dad, as he ran out the door. And I heard him telling his friend that he was going on. Yeah, I tell him I love him in case he dies before I get back. It's a good policy. Good policy. Yeah, I have to be careful because for me it can almost be like punctuation in a sentence. It is, yeah. But look, you know, there's worse punctuation. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Because it's also true, you know, particularly kids and whatever, they can feel the authenticity. Even if it's a bit wrote, they know that's true. It's just checking that box. Yeah. And that box is legit and authentic and real. Yep. You know? Let's back up because I've been, you know, reading the last two or three days stuff

that you've written and about you. And so we know you as an actor. We'll go back to that. But when did the writing start and how? Because this is an amazing book, and it's a great conversation. But it's not Andrew, the movie star, all of a sudden deciding to write a book.

You've been writing for a very long time. I have. Yeah, I started as, I started writing 25 years ago. I, you know, how long is a piece of string. but I began as a travel writer. I started writing about travel because travel changed my life. I felt travel was like this, you know, I've drunk the travel Kool-Aid.

I felt travel was not about bucket lists and, you know, Instagram posts, but about something that real and powerful and can change your life because it changed mine. After I was done being sort of a young movie star in my early 20s, and then I was just sort of caught in the backwash of that. I started traveling the world alone. And I found the further from home I got, the more at home in myself I felt.

And then one day I was in Saigon, and I had a great day, and I just picked up a piece of paper in my hotel room, and I wrote down what happened. And I realized at the end of it, it wasn't a journal entry. It was a story I'd written.

And I felt the same way when I did that, that I felt when I first started acting at 15 years old, you know, in my high school play. My wife is Irish, she has these good Irish sayings. One of them is I felt like myself from the toes up. And I felt like that when I was 15, when I walked on stage as the Artful Dodger, you know.

And I felt the exact same. way 15 years later when I wrote that story in Saigon and I thought oh there I am you know and so I just so I just kept doing that I kept traveling I kept writing these things and I had no intention with any of it until for years and then one day I did and I met an editor and I browbeat him into letting me write a story and then I wrote for magazines and worked at National Geographic Traveler for years and then the book started and then you know here we are but it was also something I could do my I didn't have to wait to be given permission to do it. And did you know you were a good writer in school?

No, it was terrible writer. I never wrote anything. I never read any of my, never read anything, never wrote anything in school. It was terrible. I was very interested in pot to me and Woody would probably get on. But so I never wrote anything until that day. Literally in Saigon, I picked up a pen and wrote this story down. And I just, you know, but that was like, because I hadn't written in so long,

like I hadn't written anything since high school when I was, forced to. And somewhere in that intervening 15 years, something had happened inside me. Did you save those early writings? Yeah, I published that one. It won an award. And I've saved all those. I used to get this thing in Saigon. Yeah. And I've saved, I used to get those little moleskin pads. I still do. And, you know, that's a good travel writer does those little pads. And I just fill them up and fill them up and fill them up. Yeah. And was this before or when did the, is it Camino de Santiago? That's what started me traveling to put this all piece of meal, I was, oh, can I just back up for one second and say one thing? This is my podcast. It's called

The Rambled. And this will lead right into the Camino because I owe you a great, great debt, which you don't know. In 1992, I was in an alcohol rehab and in Minnesota. And I was all played. I was 29 years old and I was just done. I made a mess of everything. And I was in this rehab and what we're and they were trying to get us all to kind of bond as a unit you know and be all kind of but none of us like each other we're all disparate people there was no way this was going to be unit but one of the guys then discovered at seven o'clock at night the cheers was on every night at seven o'clock on the rerun and so we would all after the counselors all went home we would gather around and watch cheers and we would sit there and talk count people's drinks and talk about how you

made the drinks and that's not he's got a heavy hand he doesn't and so we We totally bonded over the alcoholic part of its cheers. And so it became this goosey. So, and that changed my life. And, you know, I haven't had a drink since. And so I owe you a great deal. Well done. Well, done.

Yeah. Oh, well, sure. Thank you. But soon after that, I walked across Spain on the Camino de Santiago, which is this ancient pilgrimage route, 500 miles across Spain, because I was sort of looking for myself, I guess. But how did that? I mean, that's not just something.

Hmm. I need to find myself. I'll go take a 500-mile walk. How did you know to do that, though? How did that even come into your sight? Well, because I was in a bookstore. It was always bookstore on West Broadway and just killing time because I'm an actor, so I'm unemployed most of the time.

So I was just killing the afternoon. And I was in a bookstore. And I was looking at it. I was at the new arrivals table and just sort of hanging around. But I was really looking at this beautiful girl. Like I'm looking across at you. I was looking at this beautiful woman across the table. I'm just staring at her.

And eventually she felt the eyes of, you know, some pervert upon her. And she looked up and caught me. And instead of giving her my best pretty and pink, hi, you know, I just panicked. It's working out. I just panicked. I just picked up this book. Literally, I just picked up the book in front and went, oh, there it is. And I went running to the checkout counter.

And so I went running in, just so, like, I'm just like a flopped, and I'm so flustered. And just like, I just buy this book. I walk out on the street, and I see that it's this book about a guy who walked across the commino to Santiago called Off the... the road. And I said, who cares? And so I got home through it on a shelf. And a few weeks later, I was coming out to L.A. for something. And I got on, I needed a book to read on the plane. And so I picked up the book and I read it on the plane out. And by the time I landed in L.A., I said, I'm going to do that. I'm walking across Spain like this guy did. And, you know,

this being the very early 90s, there was no internet, right? The only one on the internet was Al Gore. And so I, in the back of the book, it said that Jack hit, the guy who wrote it, worked at Harper's Magazine. And so I never heard of the community at Santiago. I didn't know anybody. So the only one I knew is this guy wrote the book. So I called up Harper's Magazine and said, hey, can I talk to Jack Hitt? You know, hold on, you know, this guy gets on the phone. Hey, Jack, hit. I went, hi, Jack. Listen, you don't know me, but I read your book. And he was like, you've read my book? He was thrilled, right? I know the feeling. Anyway, so he told me all about it, and so I went to Spain and walked across Spain. What does that mean? That means you have a backpack.

It means you have a backpack. You have some food. No, but like... It's not like walking the Appalachian Trail or something where you're out there on your own. They're towns. You walk town to town, village to village. It began because in the 8th century, the Catholic Church said the bones of the Apostle, St. James, have been found in the farther and westernmost reach of the Arbrian Peninsula.

Anybody who walks there gets half their time in purgatory knocked off. But what it was really about was real estate because Islam had taken over Spain and the Catholic Church wanted it back. So they said, while you're marching across Spain, to get your almighty soul purged and get your time of purgatory knocked off, kick out the damn moors. So it was really about the crusades and all this kind of stuff.

So it was real estate. Yeah, so little town sprung up along the way. And so I would sleep in a town each night along the way. Very cool. How long did it take? About a month. Physically, not an issue, easy? Physically, fine.

Wow. I was so... I did it recently a few years ago with my son. I did it again, yeah. But, excuse me. But what, no, I did have a sort of white light experience, which changed my life while I was doing that. The first time I was walking, I was halfway across, and I was hating it.

I hated it. Every day, it was awful. Every day was worse than the day before. I was lonely, it was miserable. What am I doing? What's the point? I hate this. And I suddenly was on my knees sobbing in the field of wheat and had this sort of temper tantrum. And I finally, as I settled down, finally was snot running down my nose, you know, and just having this after this tantrum, I suddenly felt like I did when I was 15 years old, when I walked out on stage at the Ortaful Dodger, I just felt like myself in a very real way. And I realized, and I felt very light,

and I realized in that instant, I didn't have something that I'd always had. I just didn't have any fear around me suddenly. And I'd realized in that instant, what a fearful person I'd always been. I never knew I was fearful until that moment of its first absence. You know what I mean, when I felt like myself. And so, and the other time I'd had it before that was when I'd walked down on stage as The Orphal Dodge.

I went, oh, there I am. I was fully taking up space. And the same way in that field. So that's what led me to keep traveling. I thought this happened while I was traveling. I'm going to keep traveling. And so I kept traveling the world. And that led to the writing in Saigon, which led to books, which led to me sitting here.

Fear. Another thing, Woody Harrelson once took me aside, I was going to get a divorce. and I was all scared and I was all this. He said, Teddy, Teddy, why are you so fearful? And I had never thought of myself as fearful. And I was like, oh, my God, I really am. I mean, to this day, I have to say to myself when I feel fear, it's like, you know what, shut the fuck up or die.

Go ahead. Just die. It's like, oh, all right. I have to ground myself to that level to not experience some degree of fearful. Fear has been such a dominant thing in my life. And we do this living, you know, what we do for living makes it seem like, oh, how can you be afraid to go out there in front of me? You know, but yeah, fear has influenced so many. I think so many people are dominated by fear and don't know it, but they don't want to admit it either because that admits weakness.

And one thing a man can't be is weak. Yeah. So you don't want to admit fear. John Wayne was scared shitless. Let's just tell the truth. Right? Right. And, yeah, I just did a play for the first time in 20 years.

And it's finished last week. And they asked me if I wanted to do this play. And it was in Dublin. And I said, you want to do it? It was the crucible, the ortho milipa. You want to do the crucible? And I went, no. And I went, whoa, that was a quick, no, wasn't it?

I guess I'm really scared to go do this. I better say yes. And so I went and did it. And I have to tell you, I really regretted it. I was terrified every night. But it was a great thing for me personally to walk through. Great thing, personally to walk through. This is why I'm doing this, one of the many reasons.

but one of the big ones is scared the shit out of me. Really? Yeah. It's so interesting because I say, when I talk about fear to people, they go, I'm surprised to hear you say that. And I'm like, really? It seems what I feel like that's what I lead with. And when I look at you, I'm like, really?

But of course, how could, you know, why shouldn't it be? But you inhabit yourself in the world so gracefully, you know, so it's an interesting thing. You know, there's a certain level that we can operate on. how much fear, you know, how close to it fear gets, that lid. How close to the lid the fear gets is the degree to which, you know, anxiety and stress. I got stressed out just reading about, or no, you were talking to Rob Lowe about your play experience. Oh.

And was it this play that you just did or one play where you went in and you went up? Oh, no, this play, the first night, I went out on stage and I went up. And I, and in the second, the three, maybe three seconds. went, which seems like 25 years. And I think, oh, my God, it's happening. It's happening. I'm going to have to stop the show and humiliate myself and humiliate my family. My wife will never be out to go.

It was this crazy. And I just looked around to the people around me with that look of, please help me. Please help me. And luckily, I had not been mean to them in rehearsal, so they did. But, you know, and in that moment, I thought, I'll never do this again. No matter how good this ever might get, I'm never, ever going to do this again. This is awful. And yeah, so, and that's why for 20 years I didn't do a play.

And but what was even worse than that night was the second night because, oh my God, if I go up a second time, then I'm just setting up the pattern. So I had to, I was literally in my dressing room sobbing on the phone to my wife going, how could you let me do this? This is your fault. What am I, you know, and she's just like, just breathe. Breathe in five out seven. And, you know, talking to me like, I'm a complete idiot. It was amazing how fear just swells up inside. But also, if you get past it and you do it,

there's something that you can't act, which is vulnerability. And that vulnerability and courage of stepping out with the fear and conquering that is a palpable thing, I think, in a performance. That was a fantastic thing. You know, and it was a great experience. Ultimately, you know, great experience. Would I do it again?

You know, maybe it's like pregnancy and you forget the pain. But it might go back. back to it again. But I was certainly glad to do it, that I have done it. Okay. So writing, writing, writing, and now you decide to go out on the road because your son, I'm sorry, because your son said, Dad, you don't, tell me that. Yeah, I was sitting at the kitchen table with Sam, my son who's about 21, I think, at the time. And he was telling me a funny story about one of his buds and when he was finished, he just kind of looked up and said,

you don't really have any friends, do you, dad? And I took the hit, and I said, well, I said, you know, there's more to my life than my children are aware. And I said, yes, Sam, I have friends. I just don't see them, but I know they're there, and that's enough. And he kind of went, okay, whatever.

And he left. And I sat with that for a couple days, and it kept coming back to me. And I thought, you know what, it's not enough. I need to go see these guys. Because I, like many people, just to back up, When I first lived home in 17, went to New York, and I met this group of several guys who were like my, as we'd call them now, chosen family, right?

They were the people that I hung with that I learned from that I became their largely responsible. Notting on doors as an actor. Yeah, no, no, just drinking in bars. And they were just my, because only one of them is an actor. And we just became, they were my guys. And through life and careers and whatever, they all moved out of the city. and I hadn't seen any of them in years, some in decades. But they're largely responsible for me becoming who I become in a very real way, you know?

Because those foundational relationships that happen just as we're cusping in life are so important, right? And so I thought I need to go back and see them. And so I did. I started, I drove, and I hate driving, and I hate driving on the freeways and things. So I drove back roads and I'm a travel writer, so I thought, oh, that'll be interesting. So I drove 10,000 miles across the country to go see these guys. But it was more interesting to me, even than that, which was fantastic and a wonderful. full experience was I stopped and started talking to guys along the way, just random guys I would approach.

Don't worry. Break that down for me. You're driving along people in the town and you go, hmm, how does that happen? I stopped and I get, well, the first one I stopped in Philadelphia and I wanted to get a cup of coffee and so I'm in line to the coffee thing and this me and this guy just started chatting. And I said, I'm on my way to see a friend of mine. I haven't seen him in years. I'm going down to see him. And so that's an important thing to do. That's a good thing to do. And he goes, yeah, I should do that with my friends. And we just started talking. And then so the conversation started. And then it happened again somewhere. I just, you know, mentioned I was going somewhere and to see friends. And then it became an act. And I thought, this is interesting. And so I actively then would go

approaching. Knowing you might write a book or would you go home and night. Well, by the time I got to West Virginia, I thought, oh, there's a book in here. Yeah. You know, and so I'm always thinking that, particularly when I'm travel writing, I'm always thinking there's, maybe, I'm taking notes thinking there's There's a story in here somewhere. I don't know. Often maybe there isn't, but I just take little notes when I go. And but then it started to be,

I started talking to these guys and a theme started to emerge of certain attributes. And, you know, and I'm going to see my friends. And there are men who are telling me they don't have friends. They're like me. They haven't seen their friends. And, you know, because invariably people would say,

oh, that's a great thing. I should do that with my friends so many times, you know. And so it just evolved and it grew into this me then approaching dozens and dozens of dozens of dozens. of men just sort of anywhere in bars and on gas stations and anywhere and ask him, can I talk to you about your friends? And invariably, they look at me like, dude, you know. But then I say, no, no, anyway.

But not one man said no to me. How many recognize you, Andrew? Not many because, I'm in these randow places in Mississippi, you know what I mean? You know, some people go, you look familiar, honey. And, and. That was the way to get honey, right? Yeah, that's a different story. Yeah, no, so I'd get that.

But some people would, but they didn't really care. You know, it's very out of context, too. I wasn't walking down Hollywood Boulevard or something where, you know, people were looking for, you know, looking for Ted Danson or something. You know what I mean? I was just some guy. Mostly it was the you look familiar thing.

And if anything, more people didn't really particularly care. Because I was also talking about something completely other. And guys are less. likely to, but my audience would be, if it were women of a certain age, they would have seen pretty and pink and whatever, and they would have known me much more than the guys would. Guys wouldn't really notice. So, anyway. You've accomplished your mission, and I think the book will too, because I'm sitting here going,

why don't, why don't I, you know? And I just thought back to a moment, height of cheers, went back to the prep school. I went to school in Connecticut, and it was, because it was the height of cheer, it was, the first big reunion or something, and I was a rock star for the first afternoon evening. The next day, people had gotten over it, and I was 10, 13-year-old, Ted again, and I found myself walking behind by myself, this group of guys and girls laughing and talking and reminiscing, and I was 15, 20 yards by myself behind them. and I had this flash of going, oh, I had to become famous to give me the right to walk in the door, any door.

And it was like, wow, so insecure, so afraid of. So part of my brain goes, because I, for a long time, I don't think I'd do anymore, kind of compartmentalized my life because I was half, baked or I had or I was going through a period of lying in my life or I was getting a divorce something where I was half baked now I don't feel that way I feel integrated and all of that stuff because I'm because mostly of Mary and the work I did before I met her but if I go find a person from back in those days where I was still half baked am I going to have to go ah all right let me bring you up to speed. I'm not that 13-year-old Ted. I'm this

dead. They probably saw the real Ted and not that part of Ted because that's not the real Ted. That's the insecure whatever that we all have, right? But I found with my friends, I didn't catch up, I picked up. You know what I mean? I have those friends, yes, where you just pick up. Yeah. They're wonderful. Yeah. And that's what my experience was with these guys. I mean, I wasn't going to

every relationship I ever had. It was just these kind of, these several guys who are meaningful in my life. It's such a valuable conversation, I think, because we're now at a period where technology just makes us isolated. The conversation about creating community and the health benefits. The health benefits is staggering. When I started to do the research and I saw all the problems that come from loneliness,

it's staggering. Like the physical manifestation, you know, I always used to think, oh, lonely, so it's just sad. But no, it's like 50% increased risk of dementia. you have 38% risk, increase of heart disease. And this goes on and on and on. It's staggering the physical manifestations of it.

I saw it with my mom when she retired, she just fell off a cliff. And I just saw her isolating and then getting sick and then the good dimension. It was just because her world just got smaller and smaller. One of the other reason I went on this trip, which I didn't know, I sort of remembered halfway through,

kind of because it stuck in my head again with my wife, after one more time of me saying, you know, no, I don't want to go out to whatever event she wanted me to go with her. She just said, you know, your world is getting smaller. And she may have said it with love, but she didn't say it with much affection. You know, and I was like, I heard that. And that's true.

Because I'm a guy who loves, I'm very content to my own company. And I think I'm great company to myself, you know. And I don't give myself too much of a hard time about it. But, you know, I cross that invisible line. of isolation and yeah it's not good for any of us so wow the acting light bulb hit you doing oliver yeah right yeah and your dad your mom totally how old were you 15 like in high school like ninth or 10th grade yeah no my um i knew it was an important thing that happened in my life because i didn't tell anybody i knew like it's like that little like the image i used a little candle little light

had been late, and anybody walking by could have just gone, blown it out. You know what I mean? So I didn't tell anybody that I just thought, yeah, it was cool. Yeah, it was fun. And which became my go-to sort of posture out in the world when I started to become successful with this sort of, you know, aloof kind of disinterested. Yeah, it was fun.

Yeah, no, it's great. It's cool. Yeah. When I was terrified and thrilled at the same time in equal measure. But so anyway, so by the time I was going to college a few years later, I said, well, yeah, but as I was applying, I said, I want to go to college for acting. and my father said, no son of mine is going to be a fucking Thespian. And so I realized, oh, you were right not to say anything a few years ago.

But by that point, several years later, that little flame had grown to be like, I'm doing whatever I want. I don't care what anybody says. That's what I'm doing. And it was the only college I got into, so they let me go. Wow. So off you go. Yeah, yeah. Where do you live in one of the dorms?

No, I couldn't get in the dorm because we lived too close to the city. So I got an apartment. And those are the days you used to do. knock on the walk around just knocking on doors and that's how you got apart was what year 1980 so the city was just coming out of bankruptcy it was fantastic in york then and terrifying but fantastic city and yeah and so i had a little one bedroom off washington square park that i was seven hundred and twenty five dollars which was way too much money so i had to get a roommate and he slept in the bedroom and i slept in the living room and yeah and so i went to n yu for two years and then

i got uh i got kicked out so because i didn't go But was this not Tisch or was this not the theater? I was in the theater, the undergraduate drama department. So you'd go to acting three days a week and two days a week. You'd have regular school. And I just didn't go to the regular school. Yeah, I didn't interest me at all. So they kicked me out.

And so, yeah. But then while I was worrying about how am I going to tell my parents this, literally there's an ad in backstage magazine. Remember backstage magazine? It's just unemployed actors kind of thing. And they had auditions on it. And a friend of mine called me up and said, Look, they're looking, there's an audition for a movie.

They're looking for someone 18, vulnerable and sensitive to be this leading movie, open call. And I was like, dude, that's me. 18 vulnerable this, I got this. So I went up to the Ansonia Hotel with, and there were 500 other 18 vulnerable and sensitive kids. Right, on 73rd and Broadman. And so, yeah, I went there and I waited for hours with all these other 18 vulnerable and sensitive kids in the hallway. He's just sitting slumped against the wall in the hallway and you'd inch your way down the hall, right? And I walked in and I gave the person my picture.

I'd just gotten a headshot done because a friend of mine wanted to be a photographer. So he took my picture. And then I had I had done one play for a weekend. And the guy, the casting director, looked, and David Rubin, who looked at it. And he said, you spelled the author's name wrong. I was like, oh, okay, sorry. Anyway, so he said, well, don't you come to the office tomorrow? And so I did.

And 10 auditions later, I was the lead in the movie, playing Jack on Bissett's Young Lover in a movie call class. So it was like winning the lottery. Yeah. It was incredible. It was incredible. Yeah. She was everybody's astounding, you know, on a pedestal of beauty. She was just amazing. Yeah. They even did a Cheers episode where Sam Malone made a bet that he could get Jacqueline Bissette to come in and go out with him. Didn't work. Didn't work. But he found someone who was legally named Jacqueline Bissette. anyway you know what a great beauty

she's a wonderful person too wonderful she was wonderful she was so kind to me yeah she put you up right yeah she did after right at the end you know she said then you know Andrew what is doing after the film and I was like oh you have to go get an agent Jackie

you know because I was I didn't have I didn't know anything so I have to come out to Los Angeles and she's you know where are you staying and I go I don't know she goes well you stay with me I'm like okay after shooting

yeah And she was living with Alexander Goodenov, the Russian ballet. I got to remember that. And so I went and I lived at Jackie's house of Hurla Alexander for like six weeks. And Jackie used to drive me to my auditions and my go-to meetings. Oh, my God. What a sweet lady. Oh, my God. She'd have her big Cadillac, big Cadillac convertible.

And I remember I was meeting some agent or casting for someone early on. And the guy says, how are you getting around? Down, kid. I go, oh, Jackie's drive. Jacqueline, this is, yeah. And yeah, she's waiting outside. where? So we got up and we went and looked out the window,

and Jackie is sitting at the curb in her convertible, just waiting for me. And his jaw dropped. This is before the movie came out? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, how perfect. How wonderful. It was great.

And it was the most wondrous time there. She was so kind to me. And like, she used to have these amazing dinner parties. He's giant, oh, there's Louis Moll and all these incredible, interesting people. And I'm like, past the salt, Candace, would you? You know, and there's Candace Bergman over there. And it was just great. And they were, it was amazing.

I should have quit show business right then because it was the most wondrous kind of innocent time. Candice Bergen's become a great, great friend of ours. Oh, really? Because Mary worked with her several times. And what a amazing. I only knew he was a dinner companion. Yes.

40-odd years ago. Roddy McDowell used to have those dinners. Did he? Where you'd be sitting next to Gregory Peck and, you know. Yeah, yeah. Those people are wonderful about that. Those sort of Hollywood people that just embrace. all that. I just, were you ever, you're comfortable in that world. Are you? I am now. I think I'm old

enough also to, and I've reached the Mr. Danson stage, you know, people we all at a certain point call you, you know, anyway. Because I was never comfortable in that. I was never comfortable in that kind of. Well, I, I, I wasn't. I mean, I'd have a shit-eating grin on my face most of the time, but I was with Mary, too, and she has, uh, It's very sincere, so it calms me down to be around her in public. But now I'm fine talking to people and going up to them, and I feel like I've earned the right to build to tell them how much I enjoy their work or sit down and talk with them.

It's great. The only person I ever met that I thought I was invited to the 75th anniversary thing at Paramount Studios, so this is 86 or so. Pretty and Pink had just come out, and that was a Paramount movie. And they had this. One year, I was there. You were there because you're in the picture. Yeah. You are there.

And Annie Leibowitz took the photo. I don't remember who took the photo. It was this John's 75th anniversary in Paramount where they invited everybody. Yeah, of course you would have been there. And there's an amazing picture. And Liz Taylor's there and everybody, and Gregory Peck and all these, you know. And I was so hungover. This is back when I was still drinking because they flew me out like the night before.

Obviously, somebody canceled, so they invited me at the last second. So I said, yeah, I'll go. You don't know that. Well, it was like two days before they called me. So anyway. And so it's okay, I'll go. And, but I was so nervous and felt like such a fraud that I got, what am I doing here with, you know, Robert De Niro and, you know, these people? And so I got so drunk.

I was so hung over it. I was terrified. And I just sat in the corner the whole time and find the publicist. They're trying to get me out and talk to people. And I'm like, well, I'd like to meet Jimmy Stewart. So they took me over to Jimmy Stewart. Oh, I'm jealous, yeah. And I said, Ms. Stewart, it's not real pleasure to meet you, sir.

And I go, my pleasure, young man. And that was it. I go, okay, and I walked away. But then, thank God for Henry Winkler. He saved my life because they dragged everybody out to have their picture taken under the arch or under the big thing, right? And so Henry just grabbed me by the elbow

and just propped me up and stood me right next to him and held on to me. And I got a chance to thank him years later. He also doesn't know, because I have no idea what you're talking about. I go, ball, but you were really important to me on that day. He's always a sweet soul. He's a lovely man.

Talk to him a couple of weeks ago. It was very sweet. We share a director, Joel Schumacher. Oh, Joel. Yes. Joel, I kind of miss Joel. I did cousins with him, and it was a pretty good movie. It was one of the better movies I was in, and I have a fond memory of him.

He did say to me once, though, and it rocked me, to this day, probably. He said, an artist can't have metal class mores. morals. I am about as middle-class mores as you can get. And I kept thinking, oh dear, I'll never be an artist. He did, go ahead.

That's all. He did something to me, not entirely dissimilar. We were filming on the back lots and where they're setting up and the sort of... St. Elmo's Fire. Yeah, St. Elmo's Fire. We're doing C.oomis Fire. And he'd given me... I'd auditioned a couple years before for a movie called D.C. Cab

that he directed. And it was... I desperately wanted this part. And thank God. I didn't get it. It was a Mr. T vehicle that I never saw it, actually. But I didn't get it, and I was heartbroken. And then he remembered me from that. So a couple years later, he asked me to come audition for cinema as far, and he fought to get me the part.

And because I was brought out to Hollywood to kind of, to the studio head, to go talk to and meet the studio person, because I was not in any successful movies up to that point. So they wanted me, I had to go impress the studio head, and they sent a stretch limousine for me. They put me up at the Chateaum Armand, and they drove me over the hill to warn, brothers lot, which calmly he was sharing with them at the time. And I was brought into this

exact and sat down, Joel was there, and I just sat there going back to my sort of aloof kind of disintered. I was so nervous and excited that I just was like, yeah, you know, it's cool, it's cool. It's cool. Couldn't have cared less. And the guy, I just, and Joel's like elbowing me to, you know, come on, impress. And I'm like, I just was incapable of chatting it up and being, you know, and I remember they, then Joel's assistant drove me home in his VW bug. So I drove in the came, arrived in the stretch limit, was driven home in a VW. And as I was driving back over the hill,

that metaphor was not lost on me. And I said to the assistant, oh my God, I just blew it. I want this movie. And the assistant went back and told Joel how important it was, and Joel called me up and said, you jerk, you totally blew it.

But then he went to bat and got me the movie. But anyway, so then we're working at dusk. And we take a walk with me. Joel's so tall the way he was. And he drapes his arm over me. And he says, and this comes out of nowhere. Like all great artists, you're very selfish. Okay, Joel, you're very, very selfish.

And he just turned around and walked away. And that was the end of it. That was our encounter on that. And I never understood what it was, except it seemed designed to sort of take me down a notch. I do believe that. Oh, yeah. I mean, I do believe that was part of his directorial style. style to knock you down a peg or something.

It was a weird one that. And I always owe you because he gave me a career. Because that was huge for you and the world that everybody thought. Yeah. Yeah. And then I did pretty pink after that and that really gave me a career. Then I started being able to have sex with people. Up till then.

Up till then, you know, it was pretty meager. Yeah, that's all true. So you didn't stop drinking, if I may, until after. So you had become huge famous. Yeah, I mean, I stumped in 92. I was kind of played out by then, yeah. But, I mean, I always say I wouldn't, people would go, oh, you were too young, successful,

that was too much for you, so you drank. I'm like, no, I would have drunk anyway. I just was able to afford better vodka. But certainly functional. You couldn't have done everything. Well, in those kind of movies, that was early on. I was just starting to drink in those movies. But I certainly think it derailed my career entirely.

Really? Yeah, because not only the drinking, but then the years it took to recover from the drinking. You know, I was so clouded for years after, and by then that moment had passed. And I had no wherewithal what to do with that moment anyway. Had I not been drinking, not been a part of my life, I don't know that I had to wherewithal

to sort of position myself. what's next and all that anyway. I often think that my level of success, it sounds like I planned it this way. I didn't. And you never know what you planned and what just, you know, you were never going to be a massive movie star, Ted.

You were going to be this kind of whatever. So you never quite know whether you had, you designed it for yourself or not. But I couldn't deal with any more success than I have now. I couldn't have dealt with being shot out of a cannon maybe like Pridian Pink did for you. I have always been a little step-laddery kind of thing in my life, one step at a time. I think it suits me. Well, and you have obviously achieved massive levels of success,

but I remember doing Alec Baldwin's podcast for the first book I did. This is 12 years ago. And he had a podcast or before it was a podcast, really, a radio show. an NPR called Here's the Thing or something like that. Anyway, I was doing an interview at Aleph Baldwin

was interviewing me and he was a terrific interviewer because he did no preparation but he was wildly curious. And he was, so he'd listen. He'd listened really well and we were talking about early fame and me, sort of my reactions to it.

And he said, well, maybe you just didn't want it. And that hit me like a ton of bricks. Yeah. I realized my temperament is ill-suited for that kind of thing. I want to be treated special. I want to be treated given all that stuff. But my temper,

my temperament is not suited for that kind of public. So when you're saying I'm successful as I could be or whatever, is that what you said? Yeah. Or as much as I could deal with in a healthy way. You know, I think now I could deal with a lot more than I have, but back then I had much more than I could deal with. Yeah.

You know, and I think I recoiled from that, and that hung with me for years. And for years after I stopped drinking, I sort of soldered success in drinking onto a, each other. I imagine one was like a rock and there was a metal plate. I had this visual, this metal plate just stuck onto it and took me years to sort of have that dis and, you know, have them separate because they had nothing to do with each other. But would it be fearful to be offered a big movie? No, I don't, no, I don't think I'd blink. You know, in the way, it's just like, sure, fantastic.

Let's go. I mean, I love. Why not? Yeah, why not? I love to work where I learned how to work. When I was young, I didn't know how to work, but I learned how to work, and I love working. And I place my, like many of us, you know, I place myself by working. You know, it's one of the things I found on the road talking to people, all these men, you know, the degree to which we feel we're providing, quote unquote, is the degree to which we have self-esteem and feel good about ourselves. And the degree to which we don't, we feel we're falling short on that is all sorts of things that manifestations, anger and resentment, all sorts of stuff happens to men. Sad but true. Oh, every guy I talked to about, I said, do you feel.

need to provide. And every guy was like, yeah, of course, of course. And my wife is much more capable than me in so many ways and all that. But she, and she goes, you know, you don't have to feel that way. And I'm like, I appreciate you saying that. I know you mean that. You don't understand. And it's like, and that's why I said in this book, it's like, what I get from men is not better than what I get from it, but it just hits differently, as my kids would say. It hits it, you know, when I tell a guy, I feel this, and I go like, of course, Andrew. Yeah. Yeah. That's It's a no-brainer. Of course I feel that way. And just having them sort of acknowledge that, just takes the curse off that.

Yeah, I agree. Because if I, I've shared with family now because they're old enough kids and in-laws and my son-in-law and my, you know, son-in-laws, I can share stuff I'm going through, which I've shared with Mary. I'm not keeping, but the level of, yes, of course, because probably also I couch some of it with Mary, because I'm I don't want to scare her or appear, oh dear. I don't want to put her into, oh, oh, dear, worry for me kind of thing. So I am much more explicit, I think, with guys. And it's a shorthand, and it's more, and I get comforted when they go, yeah, of course. Of course you feel that way. And do you do this with your kids?

Not my kids, more my son-in-laws. Okay. But so, you know, I asked that because it's like when I wrote a book about this, but my son called Walking with Sam, where we walked the Camino together, and it's like I was trying to transition my relationship with him from being parent-child to sort of adults. And like, I couldn't model that because I didn't have relationship with my father once I left home. So when you said that about talking to family, I'm like, it's a really important thing to be able to, so I will say to my son in certain ways, not totally now, but we're getting there. He's 24 now, where I'll just share that kind of being, yeah, I feel like I got a,

fine and I'm saying, I haven't gotten a call, so I'm just a little stressed about it, whatever, whatever it happens to be. And he'll be able to hear that. And he's, instead of feeling burdened by it, which is what my worry was always, he feels welcomed and included, and he can see me then. And then, so he sees me more, you know, he's seeing me as a human and not just as his father. And so to me, that's been a huge transition to actively try and cultivate.

So when you're just talking about with your own family, that's all. I'm checking myself right now because there's not a thing that I don't share with Mary and not a thing that isn't duplicated or witnessed by her. And I'm not trying to clean up on aisle mistake here. That's the truth. And my kids know everything about me, good, bad, ugly. But there's something sometimes about a guy duplicating you that is different than children or wife.

Yeah. Sure. And actually, once you get that kind of duplication, it lifts, something lifts a little bit. Yeah. And it's just relief. And it's just, you know. But this also doesn't even have to be verbal in that way. You know, the cliche of guys going out and playing golf and you come back afterward, and my wife will go, how's Rich's wife doing?

I go, fine, I don't know. And she just had the cancer up with. Oh, no, we didn't talk about it. She's like, what did you talk about? and I'm not a big golfer, but, and I just, you know, good shot. You know, there's something about just even the physical, just sort of being in that that is in a certain way of relief. Yes.

And guys, I do, I don't think this is right or wrong. I do guys digest things a hell of a lot slower. And sitting with something and not talking about it is not just avoidance sometimes. It is part of the process, not talking about it, but. allowing it to sink in for me. I'm so slow with my emotions. Mary's emotions are right there. I take the high road immediately.

Everything's fine. No, it's good. I can spin it and contextualize whatever's going on so that I can feel happy and still feel joy. And then slowly but surely I'll let in the, oh, fuck. I go right to the oh, fuck. Really? And then maybe it ekees up to like, oh, remember joy?

Yeah. Yeah, joy's good. Okay, tell me about directing. You've done that. You've done that on some big show. I directed TV shows for a while. Yeah, I haven't done it lately. You don't want to do it anymore?

Well, I'd love to do it. Blacklist was... Yeah, I'd take a lot of blacklist. I did a lot of oranges, the new black. I did a bunch of shows. I did about 100 hours of TV. And I loved doing it. A couple of things, though.

The culture changed. And, you know, I was a bit middle-aged white male, and that suddenly became a less desirable call. So there's that. And it's also a lot of the shows I was doing at the same time kind of stopped going. One thing I learned as a TV director is, and someone told me early on, I didn't listen to it.

They said, do never be loyal. You get to as many shows as you can do. You're not going to get any more benefit out of doing 25 blackless as you are as doing two. But I was like, oh, I love doing the show. I love working with that gang. I love working with people, Jen G. Cohn, I love working on that show. And the agents are going,

No, you've done three. You don't, it's enough. You don't need to do 20 of them because, and so I'm turning down all these new, interesting shows because I want to be loyal and feel a part of something, particularly I'm a freelancer, right? I've freelanced my whole life. And so getting to be a part of something always feels good. And, but I should have spread the net wider constantly.

But I've never been a good businessman. So I just went, oh, I like it here. It's warm. I do a good job. I like to show. They like me. This is great. Let's keep doing it.

And so, you know, I can wear a groove into a rut. pretty good. What about fiction? Writing fiction? Well, I wrote one novel. I wrote a young adult novel. Sorry, what I'm going for. Why not write a screenplay and direct and act? Because I have written,

it's impossible to get people to read them. I can't put it. I'm not the guy to push a rock up a hill. I'm not going to wait for an actor for two months to read it. And then I just can't do it. And then beg, I know how to work. I know how to be on the floor and go to work. and I'll make it as good or better than most people. But I can't go hat and hand to people.

I just can't do it. I'm not a salesman, so I can't. My dad was a salesman, so him trying to hustle people and get people on board and charmingly. I saw it, and I was just like, I can't do it. But if I get, you know, I could say, I'd put myself up against anybody on the floor going to work, but I'm an utter flop at trying to hustle.

Okay, you need to act again. Yeah, no, I really do. I would love to see you work again. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun doing the playing. It was fun to act. But I have to say, it feels like coming home when I acted again.

It feels like coming home to myself in a certain way. And that was nice. I mean, that's why I did, you know, I didn't plan to become a TV director. I just sort of, I was acting on a show. And the director who was coming in pulled out of the episode right before. And I was sitting with the producer and said, I'll direct it. And then he was like, yeah, okay, I'll bet you could. And so I did one and it was successful.

You know, I came in quick. Wait, what was it? That was called Lipstick Jungle. And so, and, you know, I'm like you, have been on a set for my whole life so I know where the time is wasted. So it was fast. It was fast and decisive. And to be good TV director, you need to be fast and decisive.

And that's it. And if you have a good idea, you're Orson Wells. You know what I mean? If you can make a good transition, oh my God, he's a genius. So, and I, you know, I enjoyed doing that. But like you mentioned, I have never had a plan. There's never been a plan. I just sort of then, nobody's given me a job.

I'll make up my own job now. Okay. And I liked writing. Okay, I'm going to go write a book. You know? I have never had a pile of scripts for me to choose. Oh, my God. I literally, no.

I mean, I'm sure some get weeded out at some agent or manager level, but not really. I seem to get the thing I should be doing next. Next. It's so interesting because looking at you from the outside, it seems like, such interesting choices. And I see how that choice led to that choice, led to that. What a lovely, interesting career. You know, it's a very elegant.

And it seems to suit you and match you. There's a certain level of elegance and not nonchalance, because we know that with that nonchalant and that ease, there's so much work goes into that kind of appearing effortless. And, you know, and it does appear effortless. So it's just so interesting. And I believe you, and I know better than to think that it just naturally evolves in this sort of fluid way.

No, but I do think that if you, I, I always say I have a great manager and great agents and all of that stuff, but I'm really good angels. I feel like acting has been part of the fabric of me growing as a human baby. Absolutely. That's in, when you say, I always have thought,

why did I get this part of this time in my life? Always. And, you know, like I just did this play, and I was playing a judge with, who was just nothing but people. authority and assured in his authority. And I felt so the opposite of having any authority because I hadn't done a play in 20 years,

so I felt so insecure. But I had to just walk out on the leading edge of absolute authority. And it was so good for me. And I knew, oh, that's why I got this part. You know what I mean? And so I've always, you know, you don't even have to look very far for, like, you were just alluding to these examples you used of why, oh, I got this part because of this. This is why I'm doing this.

Yeah. Yeah, and that's one of the wonderful things about our job is that because you're constantly sort of learning about yourself while you're doing it. That's the most fantastic parts of that. I can't wait to see what you do next. Acting, really, seriously, I can't. Me too.

You're a delight, man. What is your kind of North Star? What is, how do you know if you're doing something right or wrong? Your wife? You have heroes. You have philosophers in your mind when you have big decisions in life or how you react to what the world is doing?

That's a really good question. I don't know the answer to that. It's just a feel. It's just a feel job. I was sitting with my wife yesterday talking, and I was talking, she's 10 years younger than me. I'm 63. And she's in her early 50s.

I said, not an avoidance of your question, but I go, your 50s are very different than you're 60s. Like 60 through me. So I thought 60 is the beginning of being old. I'm like, I'm young old now. You know what I mean? It's the beginning. And that's, I never, and I was famous for being young.

How did I get to be young old? And so anyway, and when you tell me you're 78, it's shocking. He said, you look incredible and you are so you. But that's the thing. We're still us. So anyway, I was talking to my wife about being in your 50s, you still have this energy and this drive and things. But my ambition and drive no is different.

And I'm not sure where it is right now still. I'm not sure. it's clearly transitioned from my 50s when I was doing a billion TV shows directing and working all the time. And now I'm working less. And I did this book. And I'm just, I'm in an in-between kind of thing, which is why I think I went back to acting to kind of, that's my first sort of baseline for myself. So I went back to that. And it's so interesting to go back to because there's certain things I can't do anymore, but certain things I can do so easily now that I could never do.

And so that was interesting to come back to it after. such a long break and I was, oh, I've got this now. I don't have that anymore, but I have this now. And so my noise, I think in some way I've gone back to acting because that's probably bringing me home to myself in a certain way, if that makes any sense. So I don't know, though. Have you ever felt this all I pick your brain then because you seem so buoyant about your career and end of your showbiz? I've been found myself so many times discouraged and disinterested to save myself from pain when I felt disappointed.

And you seem to not fall prey to that. You understand what I mean? I do. I mean, I have fears like crazy. You did what? Six months, seven months of acting? Let's go 10 months, 12 months of acting

in your first three big films that shot you up into the world, into the universe. I did 11 years of being, put out into the universe. I did have a much longer learning curve than you did.

You were shot out into the world than one year. I like to say that I was a fast starter, but a slow developer. You know, I blossomed late, even though my first thing was so, you know. Like I was alluding to earlier, I learned how to work long after my fame,

my successful blush with, you know, notoriety. That's when, then I learned how to work, you know, and learned that I loved the work. And I had an acting teacher when I was a kid. She used to always say, just the work is all you have. You always go back to the work. And I'm like, whatever, lady. And I realized by that is so true. It's like, it's all there is is going to work. You know, the work is so, and the work in and of itself is so satisfying. Because who knows whatever happens after it. So, and as you know, like, you think this is going to be hugely successful and it's just a done. That little thing you knocked off without even thinking,

oh my God, that went through the roof? Like pretty and pink. I thought this was a ridiculous movie about a girl wanting to go to a dance and make a dress. I'm like, and I felt like it was a step down because I'd already been insane on where I was playing a college graduate. Now I'm back in high school, carrying books. I'm like, oh, God, I'm such, I'm a failure. This is the mentality in 22. But, so you never know what's going to say what I mean?

Oh, my God, I couldn't handle what you're handled at 22. I couldn't. Well, it was interesting to back, I made a documentary about all that, the Brad Pack stuff a couple years ago, and it was interesting to go back and look at it. I had so much more affection for my youth, because in many ways I felt like a failure after that. I carried around the sense of failure after that for years. And to go back and kind of really, I had so much affection for myself and for the rest of the people that I didn't have when I was young. Right. Because, you know, you're young, you're scared. You're trying to figure out what's next. Oh, my God, stuff's happening,

you know, and all that crap. But to, like, and yes, I had affection for them. And that was great to see them, but I was much gentler on myself. I was, you did okay. You did it okay there. I mean, with what you had and like, what else could you have done? And with like a desire to have a little sip, I mean, what else could you have done? You know what I mean? So, you know, I think about that.

It's the greatest thing that ever happened to me, not stopping drinking, but the fact that that happened to me, that getting so derailed by drinking. that, you know, the cracked vase last longest, that old phrase. That is my greatest strength has come from that. And not the stopping of it. Yes, of course, the stopping was a prerequisite for that imperfection to have become. Am I making any sense, you know? You are. Here's my two cents.

You've got to be around people and monetize it. However, you, you know, definitely monetize it. But you have to be out around people sharing who you are because you are that cracked, whatever, vase or whatever. But you need this is really good. But, you know, Andrew right now, this is where sharing. It really is. It's right here.

Yeah. I'm excited to see what you do next. I really am. And I'm going to read your book, not just read about it. You can listen to the audio while you're driving. Andrew, it's me, Ted. I'm listening. What a pleasure talking to you.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. Say hello to your wife. I will. And your kid that liked the good place. Thank you, Andrew McCarthy. I really enjoyed my conversation with you. Check out his book, Who Needs Friends, and his documentary Brats about his time in the Brat Pack. That's it for this week.

Special thanks to Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, send it to a loved one. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts, if you're in a good mood. Once again, you can watch our full-length video episodes at YouTube.com slash Team Coco. See you next time. Where Everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Dancing and Woody Harrison sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow, our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff

Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. by Alyssa Graal, talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gen, Mary Steenbergin, and John Osborne.