Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Bill Hader

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Bill Hader joins Ted Danson to talk about his path from reality show PA to Saturday Night Live, the highwire act of live performance, co-creating Barry on HBO, handling negative feedback, and his friendship with Larry David. Bonus: Ted and Bill trade celebrity doppelgängers.  Like watching your podcasts? Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.

You'd walk by and someone would go, hey, they're not using you. Yeah. Hey, they're not using you. Yeah, you're not doing it. Yeah, you're not really working on the show. ["The Big Bang"] Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name.

I just spent an amazing hour, hour and a half with Bill Hader and my my cheeks, it's embarrassing, my cheeks are aching. I have been laughing so hard. He was a cast member on SNL for eight years where he became beloved among fans for his fantastic character work, especially the hilarious Stefan. He, I can't believe we didn't actually talk about him as you'll see coming up, but that made me laugh so hard. My wife and I, huge fans.

More recently, he's taken a dramatic turn as the creator, writer, and star of the dark comedy Barry on HBO, which if you haven't seen, you must. Ladies and gentlemen, the amazing, talented Bill Hader. Obviously, preparing to talk with you, I was YouTubing like, all of your, like a lot of your interviews and podcasts with really funny people. And it was like, you know, a gunfighted OKK corral with funny bullets.

It was whizzing. You guys were so fast. I thought, fuck, how am I going to keep up? Then I did a podcast where you were, listen to a podcast where you were talking about anxiety attacks. And I went, oh to a podcast where you were talking about anxiety attacks and I went, a kindred spirit, we can talk. Oh, thank God.

Oh, thank God he knows what it's like. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that's been around. I mean, but now, yeah, I've talked about that where initially it's funny, I've talked about that on different podcasts and things. There'll be moments from like, oh man, am I going to be known as the anxiety guy or whatever.

But I just know, I don't know how you were, but I just remember starting out life feeling that way. Then I would Google stuff and I could never find a thing that I related to. Where I was like, that's not really, you know, it was either like not enough or it was like really intense. And I was like, well, it's not that bad, but yeah. And there's something to relate to.

So I have like a mixed feeling sometimes I'm like, yeah, I don't want to be known, you know, I've talked about a lot, but then someone will come up to me, especially when it's someone who's like, oh, my kid, you know, heard your thing and that was really helpful and they really appreciate it. But then it's funny because there's a people I'm around,

I don't know about you, but I hide it with like laughing and being silly sometimes. It's not, you know, where people are like, you know, you're just like nervous wreck and sweating and stuff. That's inside. That's inside, but outside I'm actually being overly, I will say most of the time you see me laughing really hard and giggling on something, it's nerves.

It's like, just make, it's like trying, it's like opening a, you know, shaking a Pepsi bottle and going, it's just like getting all that out of your system. I mean like, you know, and people go, you have such a great laugh. And I'm like, oh, I'm dying inside. I want to be home so bad. It's the death laugh.

It's the death laugh. Yeah, where I'm like, if I'm on a talk show from a huge audience, and I feel like it's bombing or you're not connecting with the host or something. Yeah, if you see me going like, ah, like laughing hard inside, I'm like, this isn't going well at all. Oh my God, abort, you know. I leap around a lot, so forgive me. But when you say people aren't laughing or something, I have to bring up Will Forte. Oh my God.

Will and my wife Mary did Last Man on Earth, that he created, drug, broke, all of that. So we called him on our walk today, saying, hey, give me something, Bill. And he said, yeah, ask him about the fart face sketch. Oh my God. You're starting to laugh now. No, this is actual genuine laugh.

No, fart face. So Forte and I would do these characters called Jerry and Carl, and it was based on Forte doing a voice at an after party where he thought he was going to get fired over the summer. He didn't think he was going to come back to the show because he didn't have a good year, and he came up to me and go, I can't get fired this summer. Bill, I can't get fired this summer. Bill, I can't get fired this summer, Bill."

Then that became these two grizzled businessmen. We're writing one of them. When you wrote with Will, I wasn't really much of a sketch writer. I would sit back and someone else would be writing, and I would chime in every once in a while. But Will was his own amazing mind that I just don't know he's just one of those people it's it's so original and it's like he doesn't even know where it comes from but

And he's very OCD about it. Yeah, very OCD. Very specific. Yes. Yes, you know, he would do a thing before you know about to go on air and it's five, four, three, and he would, you know, touch people and, you know, so he, uh, so most times when you would write a sketch, you would go, oh, maybe, you know, and you just talk it out and you would do bullet points and then, but with him, you would go very linear. So is it a, is it a office? So, or maybe it is it a office? Or maybe it's an outer office.

Maybe, what if it's, we're in a car and then we go into the office. Well, that's two sets, so we can't do that. So what if it's, the desk is here and I'll be like, I don't fucking care. You know? It's two in the morning. It's two in the morning, can we get paid?

You know, I get really impatient. So, but Fartface was those two guys and it was Josh Brolin hosting and it was about those two guys calling Josh Brolin's character who I think his name is Jim Deaver saying, we think you're a fartface and Jim Deaver in a very serious, and it's played almost like, it's very straight. It's like Arthur Miller or something. But he would go, I'm not a fart face. I'm a very happy face. I'm a happy man.

And he starts crying. And then we say, we're going to tell everybody you cried in our office. So, we did it at dress rehearsal, and this happened to be the show that Sarah Palin came to. It was at that time the highest rated SNL episode in the history of the show. We did a thing called Fartface. We did it at dress,

it played absolute silence. Right. I could hear my foot falls. It was one of those things where that awful feeling where you go and you can hear it. It's like you could hear yourself breathing on the stage because it's just bombing so bad. So we left and we were like, well, that's never happening.

And Lorne Michaels, I don't know why, took a real shine to it and we went into the meeting and he had somehow moved it up and the order was right after update and he had the note, which we all remember, which he goes, I had a boom shadow and fart face. He's giving notes to every other. So I boom shadow and fart face. Then we went out to do it.

The weekend update was Sarah Palin rapping with Amy Poehler and the audience was so hot. They were going out of their minds and me and Brolin and him are dressed as these characters, knowing this is going to bomb horribly. Like, we're about every, the whole show up to this point has been just fireworks. And we know we're going to blow it. And I remember we went there and we were sitting there

and looking at the audience before we went up and Josh, it was like the end of the wild bunch, you know, like we're gonna die. And then Josh Brolin just turned to us and goes, well fellas, let's shut these fuckers up. Oh, that's great. I love that. And we went out there and it died.

This is your friend, Will Forte, that just makes you tell this story. Yeah, well, because I think he's very proud of it. That's why I love Will, because I would go, oh, I didn't get a laugh. But for Will, it was like, did I like it? Did I appreciate it? He did a sketch that we talk about constantly called Potato Chip. If you look it up, it's Blake Lively, him and Jason Sudeikis about a guy trying to be

an astronaut. And it's called Potato Chip and it's a sketch that we still talk about. I don't know where it came from, I don't know where the character came from, I don't know where the idea came from. And the audience was like befuddled and Will just, he didn't care, he just would come off stage and go, I thought that went great, you know. I would be like, oh no, I didn't get a laugh and all my anxieties. He was like, no, for him it went great.

That was a great lesson. Did you go to Seth Meyers' wedding? I did where he stood up and did. What is that character, but he's like this evil. Yeah, he looks like Paul Williams. His name is Hamilton or somebody. But he looks like Paul Williams, the singer, and he's very, very right wing.

Yeah, like a neo-Nazi basically. He holds the microphone like this. In the sketches, he was always given a speech, and so he stood up at Fred's wedding and gave a wedding speech. The bride side of the family was not amused. Not at all because he described her as, he goes, I met Alexi, beautiful face, cultish legs, perfect tits.

Everybody was like, Jesus. But we all were like, well, you can hear on the audio, I'm dying laughing because I were like, well, you can hear on the audio, I'm dying laughing. Because I'm like, this dude does not care, but you can feel everybody going like, oh my God. But the thing I remember he said, he said you guys will, he ended his speech by saying, you will, I will be there

when Alexi gives birth to what will most undoubtedly be a homosexual baby. And he goes, and I will be in the corner brimming with I told you so. And the audience was just, this very nice wedding in Martha's Vineyard. And he stood up and did it. And I was just, I mean, it was It was the laugh where I was terrified. So I was like, but it was just ballsy. It really is just you just feel with him as to please himself. I have to also mention John Solomon,

his co-writer, who now works on, I think you should leave and does I also mentioned John Solomon, his co-writer, John who now works on I Think You Should Leave and you know, Does McGruber and all those things and just brilliant, brilliant guy. Brilliant guy, I agree. Yeah, but Balzy, you know, it's, you watch it now, you go. He either can't read the room or he doesn't care about the room.

There is no room, he's doing it for himself, yeah, and I really admired it, but it is a thing, I'm sure if you watched it now, you'd go, oh my God, I can't believe he fucking said that. You know, but yeah, I mean, he was very bold. Let me get over my sycophantish part of the podcast. I have to just say, you're one of my favorite kind of performers or artists or whatever. You are, you're one of my favorite kind of performers or artists or whatever.

You are, you're sketch comedy. I've never seen anything like it and Will Forte said the same thing about you. There's not a glimmer of, I'm being funny or I know this is really good. There's nothing, you are so embedded in that character that is outrageously funny and amazing. And then you turn around and you do Barry. I think I saw it at train wreck first. It was like, oh fuck, you're a really good actor.

You're a really, really good actor. Then you discover, wait a minute, he's an amazing director. And that's such different parts of a creative brain. I'm in awe of you. Now take a moment and compliment me so I can relax. Anyway, anything doesn't matter. The onion field. Right, good. That's the first film 40 years ago.

That'll do. That'll do. No, man, that's huge. I can't believe it. Thank you very much. Yeah, you are. That means a lot coming from you. So can I, let's back up.

So school, not exactly your thing? No, I was not very good at school. You're not an academic, but you were a reader. I did, I do read a lot, yeah. And then you became several things, but you were also a PA for a while, right? That was your entree into the business. Yeah, yeah.

But you were trying to be an actor at that point as well. Not really, no. I came out to LA to be a filmmaker. That was always the direct, I mean that was always the thing. So my idols were always filmmakers. Wait, is this, sorry, forgive me. This is before SNL.

Before SNL, yeah. And then what happened? You always knew you wanted to be a director. Always wanted to be a director and then Then what happens when you come out here, I was doing set jobs and I worked in an assistant editor, and a post-production PA, and driving around film elements all over town, and all these things.

I'm so jealous of these people now that you can just email cuts, or you can email links of cuts. I would be like, back in my day, I had to take a VHS tape and drive to some farm out in the middle of nowhere and give it to some hermit director. But- Back in my day, VHS is, wait, what? What is that again?

You have to come to the screening room, or whatever. But so then, yeah, what happened was I had a friend named Eric Filipkowski who I was a PA with, and he goes, hey, come to Second City LA and watch my Level 5 show, which was his final show, if you go through the conservatory program. And I went and I saw these people my age doing kind of like improv and sketch comedy and I went, well, I haven't done anything really creative the whole six years I've been here so far,

so I should just do something. So I started taking those classes and that's a thing. Not aiming to be an actor, still wanting to be a filmmaker. No. Yeah. I was like, oh, this will help me as a filmmaker, maybe talk to actors and work with actors. Then it was a thing that's really important was I did my audition to get in the conservatory program.

It was this awful thing where right next to the improv on Melrose, that's where the Second City Theater was, I don't know what it is now, but there's that parking lot there and right next to where Fred Siegel used to be now. And we all had to come out after we auditioned and then the director would stand on the other side of the parking lot and you had to each come over there. And he in front of everybody would tell you whether you got it or not. If you got in or not. And so we all sat there nervously, you know,

at the time I smoked and we're like smoking going, Jesus Christ. And you'd see someone go over and come back all happy and you'd see someone slump away and you're like, oh God, this is awful. And he called me over and he just went, you're really good at this. And that was the first time anybody had told me

I was good at something. Wow. And maybe ever. And I went, oh. And after that, just that, him saying that, I was just kind of walking on air for a bit. And so that kind of changed it for a bit where I just became really focused on improv and sketch comedy.

And I was like, okay, and then in that, we can make short films and it could still make direct stuff. And did you make short films? Yeah, they weren't very good. But I tried to, but I was in a group with Matt Offerman, his brother's Nick Offerman. So we were in this group together, and Megan Mullally, because she's married to Nick, came and saw us and afterwards said, I'm going to tell Lauren Michaels about you. Okay, sure.

Right. Then, yeah, I was working at Iron Chef America as an assistant editor and got a phone call from Lindsey Shukos, who's now the head of the talent department, and she was just an assistant. She went, hi, my name's Lindsay, I work for Lorne Michaels, and he'd like to meet you. You're in LA, he's in New York.

Yeah, and I had no manager, agent, nothing, and I went, what? And flew out there and met him, and I was terrified. And Molly Shannon was super nice, because Megan Mullally had Molly Shannon call me and Molly Shannon, you know, she goes, I know you don't know me, but I just wanted to say good luck and don't try to be funny.

Just like, he hates that. Don't try to be funny. Don't go in there and start doing your audition. Just go in and talk to him. And that was a lifesaver because I didn't know what to do. And you know, managers and you talk to people and they're like, well, you got to go in there and you got to sell yourself. You know?

So going big, you know? But I just, yeah, I just talked to them and it was wild. I just, you can see me, I think it's Topher Grace hosting SNL and you can see me, I think it's Topher Grace hosting SNL, and you can see me in the background. They cut to the audience during the monologue, and you can see me leaning against with Mike Shoemaker. That was when I was visiting. Just before?

Yeah, before I'm on the show, just looking at it all going like, whoa, this is SNL, this is so crazy. all going like, whoa, this is SNL, this is so crazy. You know, and yeah. And then I auditioned a bunch and then I did my final audition. I've told this story before, but I got in the elevator at 30 Rock for my final audition and I was like really nervous and the guy I got in the elevator with, he had a bunch of props and I was like, oh shit, I didn't bring props to the audition.

I didn't know, that's so smart, I should have brought props. And that was Andy Samberg. And Andy said that he was looking at me going, dude, that guy doesn't need props. I'm so lame that I brought all these props. And so we both were just silently sizing each other up. And that was how we met. Yeah. And he was like, he looked like he was running away.

Yeah. Like the, you know, the stack, you know, with, he looked like he was running away. Yeah. Like the, you know, the stack, you know, with the little, like he just had all these things on his back and he was just staring at me, you know, staring at him going like, all right, this is the competition, you know? And so yeah, it was cool. I've known a few people fairly well from Saturday Night Live. Some of them, the experience beat them up. I mean, valuable, so appreciated being there, but the competitive nature of getting your

material on, some people thrived, some people didn't necessarily. That's true. I feel like I was very lucky because of Seth Meyers I always give and Tina Fey was the head writer when I showed up and then Seth Meyers took over and both of them, and people like Amy Poehler and Maya Rudolph and these were like the seniors when I showed up. Amazing.

Chris Parnell, Rachel Dratch, and Maya Rudolph, and these were like the seniors when I showed up. Amazing. Chris Parnell, Rachel Dratch, Darrell Hammond, I mean, all these amazing people. And he, I remember the attitude was, the DNA of the place is, you know, this place is competitive, but we don't have to be competitive. You know, so it's just a given that your thing's gonna get on this week or

not get on this week, and everybody goes through it. So I would sit and see someone like Amy Poehler, who I really admired. Me too. Not get her thing on, like her sketch would get cut, and see her a little depressed, you know? Yeah. And, oh, okay, so that's just the name of the game here, you know, it's, I don't know, playing sports or something, you know, good, good days and bad days, you

know, and I went, oh, okay. And I learned really quick that everybody, I was very lucky, like I said, that I was very, there was no like political laughter on laughter as a table read on Wednesday, meaning like certain people pulling for someone else and all this. If it was funny, everybody laughed and you would also feel it. I remember I had a period where I wasn't getting anything on and I was like, I wonder if people notice. I don't think anybody notices. And then Seth Meyers helped me out and goes, you got that Italian talk show host character. Why don't you come in and let's write it together.

We're going to make it a talk show. Let me help you. Because I came in, I'm like, I want to do something like you've never seen on the show before. And it was like nothing was working. So we did this Benny Vedicchi show and I did it at the table. I got a ton of laughs in it and after it ended people applauded. And I felt like, ah, everybody noticed that

I'm, they're applauding because it's like Bill needs this. You know what I mean? And I felt so, yeah, I was very kind and I was so grateful for that applause. I remember Paula Pell especially patting me on the back afterwards and that meant a lot. So you don't perform unless the material you wrote got on. You don't or would you sometimes, had you acted on other people's? Oh, you would always act on other people's stuff. It would just be, you know, if I write, you know, the law of, you know, you would, if I brought up, the only thing you can control at SNL was, you know, I can write at least two great, you know,

two pieces that I think are funny every week. And then, and then whatever pieces I'm put into as an actor, whether it's a bigger character or the second, you know second cop coming through the door or whatever, I just commit to those the best I can. And that's it. That's all you can really control. Everything else is completely out of your control. And so once you kind of give that up, then the show became fun. It was just the live aspect TV thing for me I never got used to.

That was always very hard for me. I don't know. I hosted once in the 80s and I mean, Cheers was the front of a live audience. And there was adrenaline and it was exciting and you had some nerves and everything. But there's nothing like Saturday Night Live nerves. It is because you're slightly under rehearsed. Yeah, did you feel that way? Did you feel confident when it was that before air energy of like, all right, here we go, we're going on, it's 1130.

Everything except the monologue. Cause the monologue, unless you, I think that's changed over the years. I think people who have their own voice, comedians or standup or actors or whatever, who have their own voice and participate in the monologue. I didn't see my monologue until Friday, maybe Saturday morning, actually.

I think it was Saturday morning. And mine happened to be Mike Myers. It was his first time on camera. And the bit was, for my monologue, was there were two worlds, simultaneous worlds going on. There was a French comedian standing up and doing what I was doing for a French SNL. There was me standing up. Mike was hysterical. We'd go back and forth. At the end in a very French over-the-top comedy,

he wet his pants hugely. So that was my stand-up. Basically playing second fiddle, rightfully so, but nevertheless second fiddle to Mike Myers and wetting my pants. But at one of the skits there were Nora Jones, I think it was Nora Jones, anyway. We're an everyday couple coming home from work,

having everyday conversation, except the room is literally filled with 25 pigs. On this stage, of which you know not what's going to happen. Yeah, and there are actual pigs that they brought in. Actual pigs that were not there for rehearsal, they came in. Oh my gosh. Somebody asked me at the end of the show, how did you like it?

And it was like, I lived. Yeah, right, yeah, that's the perfect way. It was the most accurate statement I could make, I lived. Yeah, I got through it. Yeah. You know, you always, yeah, last time I hosted, they were putting me in makeup for the last sketch, and I'm trying to run down what I'm supposed to do,

because I am a bit dyslexic. I'm not very good at cold reading, you know. I'm a slow reader, and so reading the cards was always something that was very, I would read my script over and over, and then if there was any rewrites before air, I would hound the writer going, I need those rewrites right now,

I need them right now. And there are all the time. Constantly, constantly. And then sometimes they wouldn't get them to you till, or they wouldn't get them to you at all. I remember one time I was in a sketch and it was a game show. And at dress rehearsal, I was a guy from Boston, you know?

And I was like, I think that was what it was, and I was a guy from Boston. I think that was what it was, and I was a guy from Boston. Then on air, we're getting into my quick change, and they give me a cowboy outfit. I go, what is this? They go, they changed it to you're a guy from Texas. I go, okay. I get out there, I go, how are you-all doing? They go, but they hadn't rewritten the script. I go, where are you from? I'm from Boston, okay. So I get out there, I go, how y'all doing? And they go, but they hadn't rewritten the script.

So I go, where are you from? I'm from Boston, Massachusetts. Which is kind of funny. Confused, confused. I was like, okay. And I was, thankfully I only had like three lines in the thing, but I was like, you know, what happened? And then the writer came up and I'm so sorry,

I forgot to put the changes in and I fucked up. But yeah, I survived. But anyway, they were putting me in quick changes for that and I was getting ready and stuff. Last time I hosted and they came up and they went, oh, we don't have time for this sketch, we're going to just do a pre-tape and that's the end of the show and I remember Jody Manncuso, I was doing my hair,

the, who works in the hair department, amazing legend, Jodie Mancuso. And she turned to me and she went, hey, you're done. Like that. And it was like, I could have cried. I was like, oh, thank God. You're done? Yeah. Done for the, like, I'm, the show's done, like hosting the show. I had come back to host and it was like hey the show's done. Yeah, and so all that worry all that like What's my blocking one of my lines everything? It was like yeah, you're done, and I was like oh

Just kind of melted, and I just remember just like doing good nights being like thank you everybody Thanks, John ham for coming thing you know But all the energy, I survived. It was the exact feeling. It is amazing about the amount of nerves that flow through your body when you step out to do something live. Yeah, when the red light comes on, I still like anytime I'm at some live event and I go, we're going live in 10, 9,

I just, my whole body tenses up. When I hear it because on video. It's always five four three They don't do two one Because I did a soap opera in which I was horrible Well like nine months in New York and it was always five four three two and it was I never got passed in the nine Months I was on panic and that was live It was it was all but live meaning I never got past in the nine months I was on Panic. And that was live. It was all but live, meaning if you had a half hour show,

you had 35 minutes of that huge computer at NBC back then in the 70s that you could have your soap opera stored so you couldn't have a set fell down, maybe you would start again. Right. So you couldn't ever set fell down, maybe you would start again. Right. So it was in all. But you had to know all your, there was no cue cards or anything.

There were cue cards. There were cue cards. There were cue, well, the one I was on had a, they had scrolls. Oh, okay. Hand held scrolls that some guy, there'd be three union guys in the perimeter. And you'd see, you'd be doing fine,

and you didn't really want to look at the scroll, because I have trouble reading too. I become pedantic if I'm trying to read a Q Carter or something. So you'd be fine, and then you'd see one of the guys, in your peripheral vision, pick up their little scroll machine and shake it, look at it, and shake it. And you go, I'm Foxy.

Oh my God, please, please, please, please. I was hired for this show to be kind of the town coxswain coming onto every person and smooth and all of these things. And the night before I had my first full-fledged panic attack. And I called this therapist that we were all, we had all left Carnegie Tech and went to New York and lived kind of communally almost.

Then we had all the same therapists. And it was like crazy. Anyway, I called him and he said, and I said, I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna go. You know, this is too much. I mean, and he said, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't cut off your nose. You wanna do this, you know, this is too much. I mean, and he said, no, no, no, no, no. Don't cut off your nose. You wanna do this, you know.

Take a Valium. So I took a Valium and I didn't realize Valiums in me do not get along. And I, you know, barely slept, but I had the Valium and it was still in my system. And I go down to 30 Rock or wherever it is, and I'm in the bowels of the building looking for where I'm supposed to go.

And somebody recognizes me from something, I don't know, a commercial girl. Hey, hey, aren't you? And I started to run. Made no sense, no sense whatsoever. And I got lost in the bowels of NBC. The person didn't chase me. I was just running.

Then I get up and I'm doing this scene where I'm in a restaurant coming on to this woman. And you're supposed to be smooth. Very smooth. This is my first day. She's been on the show for like two years. And it was effortless for her. And I was Broadway news sweat. I was Broadway news sweat.

I was sheets of sweat. The producer looked at her and went, we'll make him the town sleaze. He'll turn in all his friends to the mafia. That's who he is. Yeah, let's get this guy. So 5-4-3-2, just terrified. Yeah. They were nice to me.

I did one thing where I was Elliot Spitzer in the cold open and it was just me by myself. Kristen Wiig stood behind me but she had no lines and it was Elliot Spitzer when he got in a lot of trouble. I read that maybe a hundred times, tried to figure it out and Jim Downey had written it. Jim Downey is a famous writer, SNL been there forever, and very specific how he wanted things. You know, you go up on this and down on this,

and this is to yourself, and this is it, you know. And this comes out commanding, and this, now you're kind of hedging, now you're, you know. Yeah, and you're going, so I'm trying to remember. And then Chris Kelly, who's our stage manager when it was for that live, he's even talking about makes me anxious. Sorry.

But the live show and you started. So Jenna, the stage manager, all right, Bill, please come to the, one minute to right, Bill, please come to the, one minute to air, Bill, please come out, Bill, and you go out and you stand there and I'm only in the audience politely applaud, though the show is about to start and I'm just about to die. Chris Kelly would always go,

five, 10 seconds, five seconds. Then he would go, and he would as a joke go, Two seconds! Like scared, you know. And then it began. So then I go, hello, I'm Elliot Spitzer, and I start the thing. Well, Jim Downey was so keyed up about it, he was pacing right underneath this cue card.

Oh, oh my god. He's pacing, looking at the cue card, looking at me, and he's pacing back and forth. So I'm trying to stay in character, but I'm going, what's going on? And then everything, if it got a laugh, he would go... LAUGHS And I'm like, but if it didn't work, he'd go...

LAUGHS And I'm trying to stay in character, but I'm like, get him out of my eyeline. Because it's just like this thing and then just seeing him go. Then afterwards he was like, that was good. I like that. That was very good. I got the flu after that. I was so keyed up,

couldn't sleep for three days beforehand. Then Steve Higgins after that went, we'll put you out there with somebody else for a cold open. If we do another one, you'll be a two-hander, three-hander, so it won't be all on you. Because yeah, I just was like, I can't do that again. My horror on stage came at the Atlantic Theater, you know, in New York.

Oh, yeah. And we have a great friend, Neil Pepe, who is the artistic director and his wife, Mary McCann, we're great buddies. Pardon me. And he asked me to come be part of the 25th celebration of the creation of the Atlantic Theater. And they had 25 playwrights. They said, write anything you want,

20 minutes long, can be an opera, it can be anything, monologue doesn't matter. Then shifts of five, little one acts or whatever you call them, would be one week and then the next would be another bunch of playwrights with another five. So I showed up and you had one or two rehearsals with Neil, and I had a 20-minute monologue.

Oh my God. And I worked on it. From what kind of material was it? Amazing. It wasn't from a play. It was he sits in front of the audience and tries to, he's kind of middle management guy uptight trying to piece together why he's so horrified and he wants to work it out with the audience and he describes his day. And at the end of the day, it turns out that he is, when he gets home, his basement is literal hell. So when he goes down to feed the dog, there are stalactites and mites and hell.

It's hell. And then he comes back up and by the time he's through walking the dog and jarred, he forgets. So it's over and over again, this, you know, revisiting this. So I sit down. Now, first off, it's that thing behind the curtain and the lights go down and I literally have to say to myself, my car is up back. I could get in. It would be embarrassing. I would be the joke, the brunt of jokes for a long time, but I could run. I can't get out of it. I can get out of it. And then, you sit down, you're there. And I had psyched myself out backstage trying to run the lines.

You can't run a 20 minute monologue. Oh, sorry, and the week before I saw an actor do this same kind of thing and go up on a line, and I thought somebody would whisper from the stage. No, it was from the back in the lighting booth over the microphone. Your line is, you know, so I thought, fuck, I better come up with some classic way of asking for line if that happens. So I was just setting myself up. I sit down and 20 seconds in, froze.

My brain froze. And in my that, it was like sticking your finger in a light socket. It was like, fuck, what am I gonna do? God damn it, I can't believe it. My daughter is in, should I run? Should I cry? Don't cry. It's all this just whoop. And I thought, okay, Darcy,

who was the name of the stage manager, what happens next? I thought that'd be a classic way of saying line plays. Darcy, 20 seconds in is just sitting down with her coffee, hasn't even opened the script and goes, scrambles and gives me the line that I had just finished before I forgot my next line. So, I had to go back and go,

actually it's the next one, Darcy. I was so fried with adrenaline that my poor daughter, who was in the audience, had to walk me around New York City block for over an hour drinking gallons of water. I was fucked to this day. No, no. Yeah.

No. I, that, and to this day. A dendrelant dump just like, yeah. No. I, I, that, you just telling me that just. Well guys, my problem is like, yeah, that's my, I still have nightmares about this stuff. I still, well, anytime I talk to Samberg or any of those guys will be like, I had an SNL nightmare the other day.

And he's like, ooh, what was yours? You know, or it's like, it's always that I'm going up not knowing what's happening or what the scene is or any of those things. And then I know Melissa, but then, you know, the anticipation of a thing is hard, but then when it happens, I weirdly will kind of, yeah. It's like being-

All hands on deck. Yeah, it's like a car accident or something where you're like, oh, okay, yeah, it's like being- All hands on deck. Yeah, it's like a car accident or something where you're like, oh, okay, shit, this is happening. Melissa McCarthy and I, I just saw her a couple of months ago, and anytime I see it, we always talk about that we were in a sketch together. And somehow, and it's me interviewing her, she's this basketball coach and I'm interviewing her.

And the cue cards got messed up and there was a big rewrite between dress and air and I had the dress rehearsal cue cards and she had the air cue cards. So I'm talking to her and I can see on her face, she's like, that's not what I'm looking at. I see Wally, our cue card guy going like freaking out. So to your thing, I had to find a way to turn around and look.

So tell me what you were doing into the, you know, trying to make this move look natural. And the guy was going through it and then you see a guy run up with the right cue cards and he's like, and that guy's going, flying and then pointing to the word, you're here, you're here, you're here, you know, and he's like, and the guy's flying and then pointing to the word, you're here, you're here, you're here, you know? And I was like, oh. And that was one where in the moment you're kind of calm and then it was like, you know, I got home and was like, oh my God, that was terrifying.

So yeah, anytime we see each other, she's like, you remember when we were on the show and that happened? It is some of the most intensely focused energy that you will ever spend in your life when you're on a stage. Yeah, and here's where you, is it similar? Different stuff. We could start and stop.

And they loved it when we fucked up, the audience. So there wasn't the fear. How hard was that for, so I was curious watching that show and being like, how would you know, how often would you guys get rewrites on the day? Would it be during the shoot? Would they come up and go, that didn't work?

We would get minor. Cause they, because you had, we had a writing process every day. You'd come in and you'd read and they'd say the story isn't right and you'd get a whole new script the next day, but you were rehearsing. And then a funny person would come in and you got rewrites every night. But then you would on shoot day, you would either get them right before dinner and before

your show, but they'd be minor by then. And then when the audience left, anything that didn't work, they thought they could improve. But it was much more relaxed. Yeah, that's wild though. That you would have to, just to memorize those things too, it's like pretty, yeah, it is funny.

I became more of a crutch with the cue cards, even though I did a thing on Brooklyn Nine-Nine and I asked for cue cards and Andy was like, what happened to you? You loser. You Marlon Brando all of a sudden. I was like, well, I thought that was funny. He's like, nobody asked for cue cards.

You're the first guy in the history of the show. I was like, oh Jesus, oh man, oh God, I feel so bad. It's a slippery slope, cue cards. Yeah, it is. It is a slippery slope. But, you know, Dan Aykroyd was the one, my third show, he saw, he came and he saw that I was acting to the cue card and then turning and so I would read the cue card and then look at the person. And he was like, no, you gotta like act right at the cue card.

Just don't look at the people. And then- Because the camera's right there as if the cue card is your eye line. So it seems like you're doing it, that you're acting to somebody, but we're actually looking past each other. But that's hard.

That in itself is hard. And then you do a movie and you're looking at the person, you're trying to connect to them, and it's a different feeling. And Martin Short came in with this character that was very, you know, why, hello, you know. And he knew, and there was, because I break very easily, because I'm very, very stressed.

And so I'm like about to lose it at any moment. And I'm just a very easy laugh so I'm sitting there and I'm like I could just look at these cards and I'll be fine. And the camera guys are putting money on it like we you know they're coming up like hey I got money on you that you don't break so you better you better have my back man because I just put a lot of money on you that you're not gonna break. And so I'm like fine I'm fine at this, air, fine, and fucking Marty Short knows that I'm acting right to the cards.

So when the camera was on me, he would just creep into my eyeline and then go right back to the normal. And then he would right back to the room. And then it would cut back to me. Yeah. Did your friend lose a lot of money? Well, I paused. Yeah.

I went, well. So it became kind of a thing. He didn't laugh, but he paused. Fred Armisen would get me all the time. Fred Armisen, we did a sketch that he wrote called Short Term Memory Theater, where I was a professor that was like, I'm a doctor, I've worked, not a doctor,

that works with people with short term memory. And I'm like, I've worked with them, they're in this play, and they will not, I guarantee they will not forget a single line. You know, I've worked with them, they're in this play and they will not, I guarantee they will not forget a single line, you know. I've worked with their short-term memory, they will not forget a single line. I'll be playing the patriarch in the play and it was kind of a, you know, kitchen sink drama thing. So, it's me, it was a newspaper and it's set in the 40s.

And then, Aidy Bryant's the mom and immediately she, I'm like, good morning dear, how are you? Good morning dear, how are you? Good morning dear, how are you? Like I'm cueing everybody. Cause they all don't know. Immediately they all forget their lines. And Fred wrote this. So as I'm explaining, even the top of the sketch,

where I'm like explaining the premise of it, I hear Fred laughing. He's in the sketch, but I hear him laughing behind one of the flats. Cause he just finds his thing so funny. And then, so I'm cueing everybody. And then, so before I went out, John Solomon was like, hey man, you know, you have to tell Fred what to say. Maybe we'll come up with something that wasn't planned. Right. You know, so he has to say whatever, to say whatever. I was really excited.

I was like, I'm going to get him. The line-up break. He had like a sixth sense or someone told him. So he came out and you can find this. He comes out in a present-day New York Giants jacket. He comes out and looks at me, which he had never worn in rehearsal. I'm looking at him and I'm like,

and I go, give me the jacket like this. And he goes, what? What? I go, give me the jacket. And he takes the jacket off and he gives it to me. And he goes, is the play over? And I completely break. I go, no, the play's not over.

And he just like, he was like going like this, like just looking at me and, oh, yeah, that, he really, that one got me really hard. I was so proud of myself. I was like, oh man, we're going to get him. And when he came out in that jacket, I was like, what is happening? So tell me, jumping ahead because I want to get to Barry, but what was the, I'm leaving SNL moment, what was that like? Well, married at the time and had two kids and living in New York.

I was like, you know what, I think it's time to go. The people I come out, Andy and Kristen had left the year before, and Fred and I had talked a little bit and he's like, I think I'm going to leave. So I told Lauren in February of my last season, I finally, it was like, I was like, I'm going to move to California and, Right.

And you should wear it for a while, you know? Like, you don't, you might not want to leave. And, but yeah, so then I left and that was basically, yeah, just having kids and it was just. Moved out here. Moved out here. With a job waiting or? I worked at South Park.

I was a writer at South Park for a little bit. I did a show called Documentary Now with Fred and Seth. Then Trainwreck, I got Trainwreck, went into that movie. Then I had done another movie called Skeleton Twins, it was a low-budget movie. With Kristen and HBO during that time, it was one of those things where I came back to town and they're like, hey, you guys have kind of announced you're back in town, so we're setting up meetings with everybody.

Doing something at HBO was never on my radar. And I had this great meeting with Casey Bloys and the guy Mike Lombardo, who was there at the time. And they said, we really, and they were the only people that said, we really liked what you did in this movie, Skeleton Twins. We like to see something like that. Cause a lot of the places I was going,

they were like, we want a Stefan thing. We want some more sketch and stuff. And they go, we liked that, it was funny, but it was also very emotional. And so I told my agents that, and they go, we're going to get you together with this guy, Alec Berg, who we also represent. He's on a show right now that hasn't even,

anything has even started shooting yet, it's called Silicon Valley, and he's running that, but you guys should meet. So, I met with him and- You didn't know him? We had met each other in passing, but we didn't really know each other that well. Then we sat at this diner in Culver City and just talked out ideas.

We had this one idea that we were going to do then kind of realized like oh this doesn't really work and then out of almost like kind of frustration I said what if it's a what if I was a hitman and he was like I hate hitman you know because it was you know John Wick or thing and he's like I just he goes remember he said, it's like dog catcher. It's like a thing that doesn't exist. And I'm like, no, there's Hitman. People do hire Hitman and we were kind of going back and forth and then I don't know how,

but we're like, what if he takes an acting class? I remember writing that down, Hitman takes acting class. And then had like four other ideas and maybe it's this. And then, and I remember very well him going, Hitman takes an acting class, that's funny. He goes, that's interesting. Oh, that's interesting. I remember he really caught that, you know?

And then we worked on it. And we wrote that pilot, you know, that's the thing. And I'm sure you relate to these things. It takes so long to get these things to make sense, you know, that's the thing. And I'm sure you relate to these things. It takes so long to get these things to make sense, you know? So we had the pilot and we wrote it and we felt really good about it and we sent it to HBO and they said, half of this works. The acting half works. The Hitman part is like from movies.

You know, it's not set in any reality. We had a scene, I remember, that Amy Gravitt, H-V-O, loves to remind me of. There was a barbecue with a bunch of hitmen at a barbecue, and she was like, what the fuck is this? This does not exist. This does, I don't know what this is. And we were like, okay.

And then, and again, then I was like, well, what if he's a Marine? And then they went, yeah, that like kind of, now we're in the real world. So it was just those temple moments. But to get from Hitman takes an acting class to Marine was like a year. And then you went, oh, okay, now this works.

So now, and then we just kind of built it from there. Did you know what the tone was going to be? Not really. I mean, tone is a weird, you know, it was kind of, that conversation with HBO kind of got us to the tone, you know? Make the hitman real. Real, okay, he's a Marine, okay, that's interesting. And then, so then you look into Marines and that world, and I talked to some Marines and read up on that.

And then Alec and I just started building the story. And then I don't think anybody really understood what they had or HBO understood what it was until they saw the pilot. And then they went, oh, okay, this is kind of dark and cinematic, but it's like dark kind of drama first that happens to be funny, that has comedy. And that was the trick was, we decided early on the first scene should not be funny.

So you immediately say like, oh, it's this, and then let the comedy kind of come in through situations and the people instead of something like that. So it was a thing that we always got the whole show is like, is this really a comedy? And you would go, I don't know. I mean, it's just a story. I mean, to us, it was always in the writers' room,

I would say, what if there was a Vanity Fair article about this? And let's treat it like that. Like, it's one of those true crime Vanity Fair articles. Like, it's too crazy, you know, strangers in fiction type thing. And let's just treat it like that and see what happens. Who directed the pilot? I did.

And you directed all of the last season. I did, yeah. How did you know you could do that? Had you proven something to yourself earlier on? Yeah, I knew I could do it. It was the thing that my dad likes to remind me. I told him once, because the only thing I'm good at is I'm funny and I think I could direct a movie. And he said, you told me that when you were like 12.

Wow. Because I'm bad at everything else. But that's kind of true. But it's such a different brain though. I mean, for me, I mean, I am, I will, people ask me, do you want to direct? Nope. You want to write?

Nope. I don't have that gene, you know, whatever. I have friends who have those opportunities and then go, I just, I don't think I could do it. And it is true, you have to have a lot of patience, you have to really love it, you know. And you're a storyteller, I'm not. Yeah.

You do tell stories, even in little bits, you're telling a story that earlier on when you're doing Saturday Night Live or something, you are telling little stories in a way. Yeah. To me, it was how do you make a thing cinematic? I'm really excited by that. It's not just talking heads and things. It was like, how do we get this across in an interesting cinematic way?

They were very lucky that we were at HBO, that they were into that, and were into that tone, and were like, yeah, try it. Because I had tried other things at different places with that similar tone, and they went, this will never be funny. People won't find this funny. And then, you know, Alec Berg likes to always say, it's like he and I are next to the piano and we're just hitting the keys and just trying to find the right key.

And then we go, oh, right there. Oh, this is good. This one's good. But yeah, you know, and then, you know, casting it is such a big deal. Like casting Henry and Sarah Goldberg, who's amazing, and Anthony Kerrigan, and Steven Root is one of my favorite actors.

He's good. Nope, it doesn't matter where he is, what he's doing. Have you worked with Steven? No, but I've admired him forever. He's just the Nope, it doesn't matter where he is. Have you worked with Steven? No, but I've admired him forever. He's just one of those guys where you just go, you give him a little note. Yeah. And it's like, wow. And then you don't know where it comes from because he's a very sweet guy. And, but you just go, I don't know where that came from.

It's really amazing. Well, all of you guys were, what I love watching is when I'm totally surprised. Where that's what makes you giggle and laugh when you're watching anything drama, whatever for me is wow, did not see that coming. Yeah. Well, it was the best experience I've had in my career doing that show. I mean, it was just one of those things where

everybody behind the scenes and in front of the camera, we all just clicked and it was just one of those great experiences. Where did you shoot? All around LA? We shot a bunch of stuff in Big Bear. Henry Winkler's character has a cabin in Big Bear, so we'd have to go shoot up there. And that was one of those things I could tell. Aida Rogers, our producer, I would go in and I'd be like, hey, we're, I would walk out of the writer's room like, hey, we just wrote a scene that's at the cabin in Big Bear.

And she'd be like, you're killing me. Can we build it on stage? I was like, no. But this guy, Gavin Kleintop and Wade Allen and Carl Hersey and Pallowy Delbrow, they were our two DPs and then Alec Berg. My ex-wife, Maggie Carey, is a great director. She directed an episode. Did she direct some on with Will Forte? Yeah.

I think she did. Mary knows her. Yeah. Then you worked with my old nanny, Darcy Carden, used to be my nanny. Oh my God. Used to be my nanny. Gosh, I think she told me that. Oh God, I love her. Darcy was, and she was also in Barry. Yeah, yeah. So she was our nanny, and she was,

when we lived in New York, and our oldest daughter Hannah was a baby, and I remember Maggie coming in and going, hey, I met this really cool girl at UCB and she's going to be the nanny and her husband's really nice, Jason. He is. And they came in and they were like practically, you know, lived with us. I mean, it was so great.

And then I just watched her, I remember her doing these funny bus tours in New York, where she would be like, I had everybody, we're going to, she was doing every job. She did good place at the same time as Barry. Something else too, I think. Yeah, League of their own.

Yeah, she blew up. It was one of those things that was great and awful for me because I was so proud of her and so happy for her. But then on the other end, we're like, shit, we're having to base the whole schedule around Darcy's availability because everybody wants to work with her right now. And it was, but we were just, I'm still just so thrilled. And just what you guys did on that show was amazing.

And I just was like, I can't believe there she is. And my kids getting to see that, that was the coolest thing was she would come to one of my daughter's dance performances and people, that's Janice. And they would all, these kids would run over to her to get pictures and my daughter's very like, yeah, that's my nanny. That's my nanny, my nanny's Dennis.

And I was like, how about your dad's Barry? I was like, no one watches that here, dad. We're in elementary school, come on. That's not a comedy. Our kids would never come watch us work unless somebody cool was on. Really? Oh, yeah, we'll come, we'll come. Will they watch, do they get embarrassed, unless somebody cool was on. Really?

Yeah, we'll come. Well, they watch, do they get embarrassed to your kids when they see you show up in something, or do they go, my kids have done that, where they didn't know I was in something, and then I, especially like an animated movie, I remember taking my daughter to see Finding Dory, and she heard my voice at the beginning, and she stood up and just walked out.

You just broke the fourth wall for me. And I had to walk after, I go, what's wrong? What's wrong? And she goes, are you in the, she had a little lateral lift, are you in the whole thing? No, that's the only scene I'm in. He's like, you swear you're not in the rest of the thing?

I was like, I'm just like, all right. And she like came back in like super pissed off like with little like cat ear things on. And we watched the rest of the movie. I get it. If my dad showed up in the Millennium Falcon, I'd be petrified. Like, hey guys, Bill Senior. Hi, QE, Bill Senior.

It'd be terrible. That sucks. I don't know if you know Mary's son, Charlie McDowell. Yeah, I know Charlie. He's amazing. Very sweet guy. In high school, he and his buddies were in his room watching TV, definitely channel surfing, trying to find something

probably they weren't supposed to watch or whatever. And Charlie leaves the room, and his friend discovers, I don't know what movie channel it was, a film that Mary made that she won the Academy Award for. Melvin and Howard. Great movie. She does this tap dance and she gets mad at the place where she just died that she's working in,

and she rips off all of her clothes, throws them, and walks off the stage. And that scene came on just in Charlie's friend's defense. He had just gotten to that scene, flipping channel. Charlie walks in and as far as he's concerned, his friend is misbehaving to his naked mother and it's like, you son of a bitch. He's like, you're disgusting.

Yeah, that's the nightmare, is you make all this stuff. And the only thing my kids have ever been interested in seeing is I was in It too. I was in the It movie and they've been to different sleepovers and that's like a movie kids put on at sleepovers. And so my kid did go, I saw you in It. I was like, oh, what'd you think?

She's like, first movie was better. It's like, okay. Thanks. But yeah, it's always, you know, it's really, I like it that they don't, you know, I'm their dad. You know, that's the best is that. Yes. It's like they don't really give a shit about it. My favorite, my daughter at school,

and she was in, she played Gertrude in Hamlet in her school. And- Holy moly. Yeah, and I was like, and played Gertrude in Hamlet in her school. And- Holy moly. Yeah, and I was like, and those were very funny. We were walking down the street and this guy saw me and he was coming and he was like,

hey, hey, you're, you're, you're, you're, and my daughter went, Gertrude from Hamlet? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's great. I thought that was very funny, but that's what I usually get. You're, uh, uh, I always get, I told my girlfriend, I'm like, everybody thinks I'm Dwight from the office. And she goes, no, they don't. I go, everybody thinks I'm Dwight from the office. And we were just in London and I'd be like, oh my God, Dwight, no way.

Oh my God, can I get a picture with you? And I'm like, I'm not Dwight from the office, but thank you. The worst was we were in Seattle and we were hiking and these kids walked by and this guy went, Dwight, we love you. And he was wearing a super bad T-shirt with me on it. Oh, oh.

Oh. And I was like, I'm on your shirt! He's like, Dwight, we love you! And she was like, wow, this is crazy. People really think you're, uh, Lorraine Wilson. He's done a great, yeah, people love him. I had Tony Danza for some reason. Seriously, there's no similarity except the T and the D.

You guys were on TV at the same time. And the first time I encountered it was in New York and I was walking by these construction guys and I'm halfway past them and I'm like, hey Tony! And I naturally keep walking, hey Tony! What the fuck, you too good for us now? And I got it for a handful of years. It was so strange. Get me to present. What was the decision to not make any more? Had you told your story with Barry?

Yeah, yeah. It felt like the story we had written season, we were in the middle of writing season three when the pandemic happened. And so during lockdown, we asked HBO, can we just write season four? We'll finish three and then we'll write season four over Zoom. And we did that. And while we were writing season four, it just kind of felt like we all felt like it kind of ends.

Like, I don't know how you keep this going. I have so much respect for that. You know? Yeah. That you don't just keep going because it's popular and you're making money. You tell your story and get out. Yeah, it was done.

And those are my favorite things, you know? So it felt like, oh, this should end. You know? So we did that and it was sweet, you know. But I remember shooting like, you know, final week or whatever and people were like, are you bummed out? Are you sad? And it was kind of like SNL. It's like, oh no, you move on, you move on. But I miss these people. I miss the people working, you're working with. I miss that. But it is like, no, you got to, you know, this ends, you know, move on.

Can I ask what you're doing right now? Writing a movie, I'm writing a, trying to write, writing a horror movie that I would direct, but we'll see what happens, you know. You're writing it on your own? No, I write with this guy, Duffy Boudreau, who I grew up with, and then he wrote on Barry and documentary now, so, yeah, so, I write with this guy Duffy Boudreaux who I grew up with and then he wrote on Barry and Documentary Now.

So yeah, so I mean that's kind of like, and then other things just, you know how it is he, you work on certain things and it feels like, oh, this might happen and it won't. It's like I'm superstitious in that way. But yeah, just writing. But really, I went to London and Paris last week on a vacation with my girlfriend. It was the first real, real vacation I've taken. Who's a brilliant actor? Oh my God. Allie. Oh, she's good.

Yeah, she's amazing. Just like an amazing person. Yeah. But we had a great time and then, but yeah. Was this for the Olympics? Did you go there? No, we missed the Olympics. Probably very good. Yeah.

After Zoom. Yeah. Yes. When we're done, it was like, I haven't done this since 2008. Maybe gone on a vacation that didn't have kids, and you weren't working, it wasn't like, you're not doing press, you're not like, oh, well, this weekend,

maybe we can hop out and go to that museum or whatever. It was like, oh no, this is all. So that's been really great, and seeing my kids. Doing Barry was 24-7, it's hard. That's hard on the people that love you and care about you, is you're not fully present. It is a distraction from who you are. Yeah. The interior for real who you are. Yeah, I don't care how

philosophically bright wise enlightened you are you I think everybody falls into the trap of Working just you're busy and consumed with something creative which is wonderful But the celebrity the that it everything about it is distracting, I find. I'm at a, Mary accused me of whenever I don't work for, as she says, four or five days, you know, oh, you've been out of work a week, oh, poor Ted, that I get kind of lightheaded and disoriented

and who the fuck am I? And it's true. Yeah. I do, I do identify as Ted who works. Yeah, and it's hard, it's good to, yeah, I mean, that's a thing I've been working on, is like not just my kids and everybody in my life, it was just since 2000 and,

when we started, Berry, 2017, it's just been, you know, I mean, that's all I can think about, you know? So you're there, you're there, you're at the place, you're at like the swim meet, you're at the volleyball game, but your brain's going like, what if that, I don't think that works anymore. And then I'm texting a writer going like, hey, I think the thing we worked on yesterday

doesn't work. You know? And you know, I feel bad for Alec and the people in the writer's room, because my brain just, I just couldn't let it go, you know? I was just like constantly thinking about it. So it was this interesting thing when the final episode aired.

I just didn't know what to do with myself. And I had a hero Murai who's brilliant. He directs Atlanta and Mr. and Mrs. Smith and stuff. And he said after Atlanta, he's like, yeah, it's gonna be, it's weird. He's like, be ready. It's weird. You know?

How do you ground yourself? How do you get back to zero or look at yourself? It takes me a while. I mean, oh man, I'm like, if I was in my 20s and met me, I'd be like, this dude's so lame. Why, what do you mean? Oh, because I meditate, I eat while I'm trying to exercise. You're not from the East Coast or the West Coast.

You're from the Middle East. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like, oh. Oh, sorry. You're not from the East Coast or the West Coast. You're from the Middle East. Yeah, yeah. I feel like, okay, you meditate. You know, just saying, how's grounding yourself over there, Bill? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, but yeah. Remind me what vegans eat again.

Oh, okay. Oh, you only fish now. All right. But it's, but yeah. I mean, yeah yeah, meditation has really helped me. But just getting into some sort of a routine and also being curious again, you know, that was a thing of reading and having a, and it's okay to kind of have a schedule for the day that we set aside time to, that's been the biggest thing for me is putting my phone away. That was a huge thing, schedule for the day that we set aside time to. That's been the biggest thing for me is putting my phone away.

That was a huge thing, putting all these things away and focusing on the people I'm with. And I think when I was on the show, I lost a real curiosity. I was so focused on the show, but then it's like you ask people, quiet, you meet people, you know. And my kids and, you know, Ali and Maggie, my ex-wife, like all these people have been really great in that way of showing me that. So it's really just hanging out with people and like listening. Hate that, hate that.

Yeah, oh my God, no. But it is, it is. But yeah, I think, you know, all that meditation, exercising, well, but also just, yeah, I like reading, you know, or you find a filmmaker that you've never heard of, or you watch a film, like I watched this film. I've always liked this Japanese movie called Cure.

It's a horror movie. And so I find that director and I'm going to check out his other movies. And that's so invigorating and really makes you excited about what you do for a living. Not that you have to choose, but if you had to choose, would you direct over act or act over direct? Or is it? I don't know, it's all kind of one, I know it sounds like a lame job.

Would you be in this movie you're writing? Yeah, yeah. But it's all like one weird job to me. It's all kind of writing, you're writing a thing so you can act and direct, you know. But I think you're kind of extraordinary because I don't think that works for a lot of people. To switch hats back and forth.

I mean, when I watch you act, you seem so connected to that reality. The depth of truth feels so amazing to watch. But you also are thinking about, you know, what the shot looks like or you're also having written that scene perhaps, you know, I find the idea of switching back and forth pretty rare because some people do it but you you're not getting... Yeah, well, I mean you're seeing the parts that we

edited into the thing because there are times when Henry and Stephen especially said that I would be in the scenes with them and I'm going. Especially off camera. Yeah. Henry, Bill, can you please stop mouthing my lines? You're the guy. You're the guy that's not inside Live going, yes, yes, no.

No, but he, but yeah, I definitely, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, you, because you write the thing, you kind of know what the emotion is and you're relating to it. And then you set up the shots and you kind of have everything. I like to pre-plan a lot. So then when you're in it and we're in it, then you can really be in it. You can let it go. Yeah.

And because you've planned it so much. Yeah. But, and you know what you're doing, you know? But then there's also been times, I mean, every season we do reshoots because I've had some idea that I think is great. And then we get in the edit and the editors are like, what is this?

I don't know. I thought it was good. And then you ask the actors, hey, we cut that out and they're like, oh, thank God. We did not get that at all. And I was like, okay, you're right. So it's always a process and you do have to like set your ego aside if you're going to make the story work. Boy, that's true. I think about the business in general.

Check your ego at the door. It looks like it's full of ego, but man, do you get ego crushed all the time. And then you think like, oh, I've got my ego in check. And then people outside of the, you go, yeah, man, you realize we've only been talking about you for the last five minutes. And you go, oh yeah, you're right. Yeah.

I've been told I got, you know, because, Phil, have you heard the term emotional dumping? And I go, what's that? And it's like, it's when you just kind of like dump all your problems onto people and you're not, you're talking at them. You're not really, oh. And I went to my editor, Ali Greer, amazing editor, I go, hey, do I emotional dump? And she's from Minnesota. And she goes, oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You go off about this and that and you're always upset about this and then it doesn't really matter what I say. So then yeah, you talk to a therapist about that and go, why do I do that? What is that? What is up with that?

I've become the older guy that walks through a door talking. I don't even see who's in it. I just start talking and adapt. It's like, oh, it's terrible. Wait, what does that look like? I have something on my mind and I start talking, and then I noticed that Joe is actually there. So I'll include Joe in what I'm talking about.

But it has nothing to do with other people. It's my monologue. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I love that. I should do that. I always, you know, we have Larry David and I have become good friends. Motherfucker.

Sorry, I like saying that. He's a motherfucker. First off, I owe him so much in my life, and I do love him, but I love picking on him as well because he's so pickable, honorable. Well, he laughs at himself too, which is fine. Yeah. I mean, his social graces are non-existent. I mean, in real life, non-existent.

What is something you've seen? He doesn't like going to people, he doesn't like accepting invitations to people's homes for dinner. Because I can't get up and leave whenever I want. And he wants to leave a lot. And Woody and I, actually it was Woody and I and somebody else were meeting him for dinner and he got there early.

It was his idea and we came in and said to the maid of day, we're here with Larry David. And he said, oh yes, he's right over there. And Larry was finishing his last bite of his entree. He had ordered and eaten early, cause he had a better idea, probably involving some young lady or so, you know, whatever I have a memory with you and Larry all in the same moment, which was

You were nominated for best actor in a comedy and so was Larry and so was I curb and the good place and Barry. And Larry turns to me, we're sitting behind each other, you know, in our tuxedos and everything. And he goes, we're gonna lose. And I said, don't say that, we're not gonna lose. Don't say that.

I was kind of pissed because I had in the back of my mind, I might win. And you won. And my reaction was to haul off and slug his arm like it was his fault. If he hadn't said it, maybe I would have won. I saw him after that and he was like, oh yeah, oh yeah, congratulations.

Yeah. We both are like old movie, we love watching TCM's, so he'll send me like, he'll send me, oh, this is on right now. And he likes very kind of sweet movies, which is funny. Yeah. Like, I don't know, like Ghost in the Mirror is on.

Oh my God, this is great. He's like a sweet movie. He's a marshmallow, really. Yeah. He likes very, and he doesn't like things are too violent or anything. He's like, that's not for me. I don't like the violence. Or mean spirited.

Mean spirited. No, he doesn't like it. He'll make fun of himself. He'll put himself through the grinder as a character, but he doesn't like mean humor. Yeah, he's like, I'm not really into that. He actually does good impressions because he always, I would do impressions for him and he would laugh incredibly. He's a good laugher.

He can do Rod, having to do Rod Steiger in The Heart of They Fall. Oh, wow. That's so specific. With Humphrey Bogart. Humphrey Bogart's last movie, Heart of They Fall, and he could do Rod Steiger in there. And he was doing that when I did an episode of Curb, and I was crying laughing. It was so funny.

But if you see him having to do it, the people, the people. He does Rod Steiger and he does it really good. It's really good. Do you find yourself something like Mary and I will be talking and it'll be just a word. Stop fiddling with that. You're a fiddler. Yeah.

I'm a fiddler. You're a fiddler. You're a fiddler. That's what you do. You're a fiddler and Yeah. I'm a fiddler. You're a fiddler. You're a fiddler. That's what you do. You're a fiddler. And you start doing those riffs. Yeah. It's hard to not. It's very, very contagious, his voice.

And he loves asking. He has it because I have a peanut allergy. And I told him a story. I go, yeah. He was so fascinated. He's like, tell me more about this peanut allergy, what happened? And I tell him, oh, one time we were at this huge dinner for SNL and this actress was hosting and they came to the table and

they go, do we have any allergies? And I go, I actually have a very, very bad nut allergy. And they go, okay, so we, and it was one of those things where you share food. Oh. So they said, and I kind of went, is it okay if we just don't have any nuts in the food? Because I could die.

And everybody always, it was like my joke, but I'm being serious, and everybody's like, oh yeah, sure, no problem. But the actress went, I actually want nuts. You know? And so we had to work it out where she got stuff with nuts, whatever. And that is something Larry loved that story.

He asked me about it 20 times, like, tell me again about the nuts. He also had a very bad story about a terrible trial balloon that I laid out where I made a faux pas and then I tried to, trial balloon where you go over and try to see if everything's okay. Yeah. And I had said something, again, I won't name it, but I said something to a guy,

a scene that was good in a movie. And anyway, it's hard to explain, but basically I inadvertently upset this actor. Like I didn't realize that I upset him. And he called me on it and goes, you know, I was in that. And I went, oh, oh, sorry. You know, I was kind of being disparaging about a film. And I, oh man, we're at a barbecue.

And Larry's already like laughing. Yeah. So what'd you do? What'd you say? How long did you wait? I waited like an hour. And then I walked over and I said, hey, they're grilling chicken over there. Larry laughed and goes, that is the worst trial form in the history of trial forms.

So he will always go, yeah, oh, they're cooking chicken. That is the worst thing. That's not a conversation starter. That's just a fact. You're just pointing at things. It was true. I did. Did it work? No. The guy just walked away. He was like, get. It was true, I did. Did it work?

No, the guy just walked away. He was like, get the fuck away from me. I was like, shit. I was like, god damn it. Yeah, I messed up. Oh, wow. How's your family? Did they like your fame?

Yeah. Is everybody okay with? Yeah, everybody's pretty okay. It's an adjustment. Yeah, it is an adjustment. I think everybody's all right. They just don't take me very seriously, which is good. Yeah.

How are you with fame? Are you okay walking around and being recognized? As long as they think I'm Rainn Wilson, I'm great. You know? Sometimes all right, sometimes a little weird. You know, I'm kind of a homebody and I'm also, I can be pretty paranoid and stuff. So yeah, sometimes I don't like

if I feel like someone's following me. I don't really, believe it or not, I don't like that. I do not like it when you're walking and I'm like, hey, I just saw you at this other place. What are you doing? No, this person's following me. Mary's okay with people coming up going, hey, I love your work, that and that, or hey, direct in your eyes.

Cannot stand people surreptitiously taking photographs. It's like, hey. That's the new thing that, it's not new, but it's a thing that. Everybody is. Yeah, just, I mean, just, you know, you're on a plane and you're sitting there and the people, the person in front of you.

Yes. Like the thing happened. The thing I don't like is when they have the camera and they put their arm around you and then just try to take the picture and I'm like, oh, we're not doing that, please, please ask me, you know. But I'm, I kind of, I don't really like

taking pictures with people. I'm sure it bums people out. I'm always like, oh no, I don't do that, but I'll meet you, what's your name? And then the disappointment on their face, like who the fuck wants to meet you? I just want the picture. I don't even know who you are.

Yeah. You know? Because what happens is you say yes to, this sounds like such a champagne problem, I know, but you say yes to somebody and then other people start coming over and then most of them are like, I sounds like such a champagne problem, I know, but you say yes to somebody and then other people start coming over and then most of them are like, I have no idea who you are,

but everybody's asking for your picture. And so I kind of just say no. And also you just don't know where those pictures will end up. You know, you see someone's Facebook and it's like Neo-Nazi person. It's like, this is when I met Bill. It's like, fuck, you know met Bill. I was like, fuck.

Why did I, I don't know. So I kind of just as a rule, just I always say, oh no, I don't do that, but what's your name? And just try to meet him. And sometimes it's great. And then sometimes, yeah, it's just, yeah, in London I said, no, I'll meet you.

And the guy went, oh, fuck off. Just walked away and I was like, well, there you go. There's the answer. I love New York for the, they're so direct. It's like, hey Ted, come over here. Get the, yeah. I'm actually okay with that. The directness is not covert.

It's, you know. Well, being at, on SNL, it was like being in the Yankees, like home team. So if you walk by, you'd walk by and someone would go, hey, they're not using you. Hey, they're not using you. Yeah, you're not doing it. Yeah, you're not really working on the show. Yeah. I remember one time a cab driver was walking with my ex-mother-in-law, and we were walking

out the street in New York. And this cab driver pulled up and he went, hey, SNL, you and your show fucking suck ass. LAUGHS Suck ass. LAUGHS But yeah, calling me SNL is always... I'm sure everybody has that, so I'm like, hey, SNL. It's funny how you remember the insults. as always, I'm sure everybody has that, so I'm like, hey, yes and no. You know?

It's funny how you remember the insults. Nice things, 95% of the time, but when it's mean, yeah, you always remember someone being mean. My two favorite reviews, I couldn't tell you a positive one, was, too tepid Ted. Or, and the other one, this was after Becker came out and Mary and I had gone back to do, I had done a lot of press and she came with me and then we had to fly back to the opening night

of it premier here in LA. But as we were heading to the airport after doing a week of press in New York, I see Mary and there's a pile, which doesn't always happen when you hire a car. There was a pile of newspapers in the back seat. And I saw Mary kind of open one up and I'm, I don't know what I'm doing,

but I'm not really paying attention. Then I see her out of the corner of my eye, slowly start to push all the newspapers onto the floor. And she read, I finally insisted, and Mr. Thinks He's So Wonderful Danson was one of them, and the other one was too tepid Ted. Yeah, you'll never forget that. Both of them have merit, but nevertheless.

You'll never forget those. Yeah, any sort of bad review. I think someone my first season said, I would love it if Bill Hader, Will Forte and Jason Sudeikis would just walk their asses into traffic. It was really mean. We used to cut ourselves because you would just go online

and you would go to the comment section and all this stuff, and it was so brutal. I remember Emily Spivey, my friend, who's a genius. A great writer. Oh, my God, I love her. She was like, why do you care about what some dude in his, you know, who's probably in his basement and Mobile Alabama has to say about you?

And I was like, right, you're right. You know? And I had an experience one time with a guy who went after me pretty hard on SNL and he would do this, he wrote for like a big website and he would do this, he wrote for a big website and he would do these awards. He said, best character, worst character, best sketch, worst sketch.

He was like, worst thing of the year is Bill Hader as Herb Sewell, this old reporter character I used to play. It's not funny and it's racist, it's misogynistic, I hate this thing, no one likes it. I was like, oh. Then months later, I'm at press for an animated movie I did, and I'm at a table at Comic-Con, and it's one of those things where they just bring people over to you.

I'm like, okay, next is, and it's that guy. Oh, my God. I don't know. Okay. So he sits down. I don't mention it. I just, and he's super nice to me and we talk about the movie. It ends and then as he gets up, he goes, hey, I just want to say, you know my favorite thing you do is I love Herb Sewell, that character. And I went, okay, I wasn't going to say anything, but it's a little weird because you wrote

that it was the worst thing ever on a big website. He went, oh, well, yeah, I wrote that and a couple of friends said, no, it's funny. So I went back and watched and I was like, no, it's funny. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was kind of a gift to me because I went, oh. Oh, social media.

Or reviews, whatever. You just go, they might change their mind. Today, they don change their mind. Today, they don't like it tomorrow. But it was a thing of like, okay, I'm going to let this go. You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm just going to let this go.

But I will say last season of Barry, I was like, because we ended it and I wanted to know, God, did we land it or not? We took some big swings and stuff. So that I was a little like reading reviews and going, ooh, ah, cool. And I learned my lesson, my publicist was like,

don't, you don't have to read this. And I was like, yeah, you're right. I'm not on social media for that. I'm too thin-skinned. I don't want to live in that world. No, I know I would be addicted to it. Yeah. You know?

I would just be addicted to it. I'm just, I'm already addicted to just like texting people. It's not good when people go, man, you get back to me like right away. I know, I know. Emails you can ignore. Yeah. Texting you have to answer immediately.

I'm like, oh, this is it, you know? And it's like, aren't you driving? And I'm like, oh, this is it. And it's like, aren't you driving? And I'm like, oh yeah, don't worry about it. Is that coffee by the way? Yes, do you guys like coffee? Oh, I'm down to two. I heard an interview or something. I'm down to two in the morning.

That's good. And let me not be a full onon liar and one in the afternoon. It's hard, man. It's like, it's, you know, Alyssa, my assistant was like, do you want a coffee? And I was driving here and I was like, I've already had two, but I'm jet-lagged. I've been up since 1 a.m. Oh my God. Have you?

Yeah. I'm just like up at 1 a.m. And I texted Allie, I was like, I'm up at 1 a.m. I texted Ali, I was like, I'm up at 1 a.m. She's like, so am I. We're just turned around. Hey, thank you so much. Oh, man. Thanks for having me. This is a conversation stopper,

but we're kind of at the end anyway. You really are. I'm a talented, amazing actor, writer, director. You really are. Oh, thanks. Yeah, and that's a really nice view. That means the world coming from you, man. And yeah, my kid, I was like,

I'm gonna go do a podcast. And they were like, you never do podcasts. And I was like, well, it's Ted Dance. And he's like, the greatest. He's one of the greatest. And they were like, oh my God, oh God. you know, because they're, yeah, good place. And you know, they're like, what? You know, and I will also say, Three Men and a Baby is getting a renaissance.

It's getting a renaissance. Oh, I didn't know that. Kids now know that. I was talking to my, one of my kids and I go, what'd you guys watch? We watched Three Men and a Baby. I was like, really was like really cool. Yeah Let her nemoid directed wilds not wild I

Want you to talk to the baby make the baby laugh Hey give yourself a treat. Watch Barry on HBO if it's the last thing you do. No, it won't be the last thing you do. It is my favorite kind of dark, funny, human comedy. It's my favorite kind of comedy. That's it for this week's episode. Special thanks to Woody and special thanks to our friends at Team Coco.

If you like these episodes, please tell a friend and subscribe on your favorite podcast app. If you have some time, a great rating and review on Apple podcasts helps a lot. So please, thank you. Well, see you next time where everybody knows your name. Ross and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and Mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grawald. Talent Booking by Paula Davis and Gina Bautista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson,

Antony Genn, Mary Steenburgen, and John Osborne. Special thanks to Willie Navarrete. We'll have more for you next time, where everybody knows your name.