Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Don Cheadle

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Ted is determined to avoid a battle of wits with Don Cheadle, but he keeps taking the bait! They talk about Don's life-changing experience on “Hotel Rwanda,” playing legends like Miles Davis and Sammy Davis Jr., how he accesses his murderous side, his upcoming Broadway debut in the revival of “Proof,” and more.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, fuck you. Hey, there we go. There he is. Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. If you've got a pulse, Don Cheadle has probably made you cry, laugh, roar, and everything in between. He's one of the finest actors of our time. From Hotel Rwanda to Boogie Nights, the Ocean's Trilogy, to House of Lies, Devil in a Blue Dress, and so much more. Don is making his Broadway debut this year in the revival of the Pulitzer Prize,

and Tony Award-winning play, Proof. Truly an honor to welcome him today, Don Cheater. I'm the guy who is just now falling in love with Snap. Oh, snap. Oh, so you're like, you're still like 20 years.

Yeah, yeah, you're about 20 years. Yeah. Slap is also a good one if you want to do it. Oh, shoot. Sounds like a plan. Sounds like a plan. Slap. Slap.

That's good. Yeah. I was one of the things I was in recently, they used all the kids, teenage kids characters said bro and bra a lot. And I went, that's a little overdone. Then I walked into a room. And adults, humans were saying it? No. Kids are, kids do say.

Oh, of course. All the time. All the time. Brough. It's just like, bro. The first time my kid said it to me, I was like, don't call me bro. They're like, everybody, that's what they say, Dad. I was like, yeah, but...

Yeah. I'm not your bra. Yeah. No, I'm bra. Do women say bra? Everybody. Bro. Bro.

Bro. It's bro. Bro. All right. Bro. I think women should say bra. But any... Bra?

Sexist. Feminine. Bro. Are you wearing makeup, Don? Let's establish that. Well, how much? Because this is a fucking podcast. I'm already pasty white.

Right. Now you're gloriously... You got fucking cameras here. I know. Why don't... Next episode, I'm wearing makeup. You're good. Last time I saw you and your wife, Bridget.

Yes, yes. Was outside your garage, Mary and I were walking by. Yes. And I don't know why you didn't invite us in. Was it COVID? It was definitely COVID. COVID, okay, so that's, thank God. Because you did not invite us in.

No. But we had a long conversation about maybe you moving up to Ohio. Yes. But you heard about. Bears. Not even heard, saw. Oh. Yeah. And you were out. Gang of bears. We actually still have the place up there. Oh, really? We do. But it's not, it's a barn. It's actually not a, it's not zoned to be livable. We could live in it. We could hang out in it. We could spend the night in it. But it's really not like a home. I thought, Ohio was so casual. Zones didn't make any difference.

You'd think. But no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, well. Wow. Yeah. Why are you keeping it? That's a very good question. Can we call Bridget real quick? Ted wants to know the same thing. Don wants to know.

Well, we all got excited that you were going to move up there. But, okay. Hotel Rwanda. Can we just start there? So many other things. But it felt to me that that also led to so many other things in your life. Absolutely. That you've done.

But can you... I can talk about it for a minute. Were you how I... Did you shoot it in Rwanda? We, no. A couple of exteriors in Rwanda, we shot the bulk of the film in South Africa. Gotcha.

In Mata Fontaine and all around South Africa, yeah. Right. And when was the shot? The genocide was 85. Was it... 2004? Yeah. Yeah.

Uh-huh. And you shot it in... In 2004, I believe. Yeah. Such a powerful experience. Have you been to Rwanda? Oh, yeah. After.

Yeah, I have. Yeah, several times. Yeah. I went to a guerrilla naming ceremony. And then just back when we were doing some stuff with the night soldiers camp and UNHCR, we were over there. We went to Uganda and Rwanda and Tanzania. We were just over there for a while going to some different places around there.

Yeah. It's kind of visceral for me because I went with Mary and I went with Bill Clinton when, I don't think he was president then, but he had AIDS clinics all over Africa and he was traveling to different countries. And we went with them. It was, you know, it was one night here, one night there. But we had two nights in Rwanda visiting farms and AIDS clinics, things that the Clinton found. was working on. And we got to meet Paul.

Kagami. Yes. And it was still, it was still, it had been 10 years or however many years since the genocide, but it was still underneath the surface kind of. Oh, yeah, it didn't ever go away. I mean, when we were shooting the movie, and we were, like I said, we were in South Africa,

We were shooting the scene where the Intara Hamway come the very first time when they come to grab Paul or in his family. And Tasiana, Rosetta Vigina, who's married to Paul, who's Sophie Okinao plays in the movie. We were watching the monitors, and she said, that guy's Intetamwe. And she's pointing to one of the extras.

And we were like, how do you know? She goes, I know, just trust me, I know that guy is. Wait. What is the word you said? In Tadahamwe, they were the... Tutsi? Yes. That were...

The Houthous, rather, not the Tutsi, the Houtis. The Houtes. Sorry. Who were people who were... Yeah. Doing the genocide. Yeah. And she said he's one of them.

And we were like, are you sure? She said, I'm sure. So I think the AD went up to him and said, hey, are you? And asked him directly, and you said, yeah. And he was like, you got to go. He's like, okay. And you just kind of looked at everybody and kind of just drifted off. But he was, and we had other extras in the movie who had been through it as well.

So it was very present for everybody on the set. And Paul and Tassiano were there the whole time. You're Paul, the character you played, not President Paul. No, not Kagame. Yeah. But Ruses Bikini, he was there. Both of he and Tassiano were there the whole time. Not the whole time, but a majority of the time.

I didn't know this, but I read just recently that, The character you play Paul was put in jail for being a rebel or accused of or whatever. Accused of. Yes. He was invagled. He was kidnapped ostensibly. Set up to get on a plane. He thought he was going to Barundi to give a speech.

And he's very, been an open critic of Paul Kagamis for a while. And there was a credible attempt on his life when he was in Belgium. And he was traveling and he thought he was getting on a plane to go to Burundi and kind of woke up in shackles and was taken to Kigali and spent nearly 900 days, 800 or 900 days in jail. How did he get out? He ultimately had to write a letter saying, you know, apologizing for his actions, although it was the Rwandan witness. said, I don't even know who this guy is. We didn't take any orders from him. We don't, this is not how it works with us.

They had no case, really. But he was a vocal critic of Kagame's administration, and that don't fly over there. Did you get both good and bad, not as an actor in this country, by playing that character, did you get kind of sucked into the politics in any way, in a real life way?

I mean, not as, As much until Paul was kidnapped was I involved with the politics of Rwanda. But definitely a lot of activism started as a result of that. I was asked to go on a congressional delegation to Darfur because the two senators, the two congressmen at that time, believed that there was kind of a resonance from what had happened to Hotel Rwanda. there was enough of a relationship to at least let people know that what you saw the events happening in that movie are kind of happening now.

Right. In Darfur and in Sudan with the Janjaweed. And they asked me to go. They asked Paul to go. And another friend of mine, John Prendergast, who I co-wrote a book with Not on My Watch, to go and see for ourselves what was happening. So we spent some time in the area and stayed behind after the Congress people left. and snuck in through Chad, snuck into Sudan

and went to some of these villages and saw, you know, pretty fresh remnants of a raid that had just happened. Wow. And is it the century that you, is that the name of the organization? I was involved in it. I'm not on the board anymore, yeah. And that was to highlight what was happening in different countries. Yes.

In Africa, all in Africa, all over the world. Mostly in Africa. Mostly in Africa when governments were misusing funds doing... Yeah, warlord kind of things. Because it's hard to go after it politically, but they were trying to target people that they were doing business with and kind of go at the money, because that's obviously where you get people to have the most response

and sort of try to tie that in. And the century's still going, and it's still doing the same work. That was you, Clooney. When it started with us, it was not on our watch, and then it's sort of morphed and changed and became different things, and now it's evolved into the century.

Gotcha. I went on it. It's really clear. What's really neat is it's not confusing the way it's set up. It's like, oh, wow, got it. Did you start with parents that were socially, you know, involved. I know they were clinical psychologists, right? My dad was. My mom was an educator, teacher, and worked in HR, and, you know, kind of started

her own business helping young kids learn how to move into the workplace and how to comport themselves and all that. So, yeah, both professionals my whole life. Were they out into the world doing stuff like you are? No. They were just raising the families and trying to, like, make ends. meet and be mom and dad. Wow. Are they still alive? No, I've lost both of my parents, yes. Did they get to see you become Don Cheadle?

They were like, you're just Donned us. But yeah, they definitely, you know, have seen a lot of the work and have been part of a lot of it and been around for a lot of it, you know. My mom would always say, like, people come up and say like, oh, I saw your son and someone. She says, I have three children. And I love them all. So whatever, you want to say about him. They're good. Yeah, I got two others.

Let's talk about them too. The good mothers do that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's true. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

What are your siblings? Are they out in the world? Yeah, my brother is, they both kind of followed in our parents' footsteps somewhat. You know, my sister's the teacher as well. And is taught in Colorado and taught in Virginia, taught in D.C. and my brother's worked in the HR departments, and he's a consultant in that, too. So, yeah.

Actually, way more heroic than you and I. I mean, sure, yeah. I mean, really. Let's give it up to them, yes. To be teacher is like... The hardest job. Yeah. And it made much harder in the past few years.

It's just insane. Yeah, it is insane. Yeah. Another conversation? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we didn't have that. That's a whole other podcast. Yeah.

that's amazing um you played a very sexy instrument you were a sax player i did play sax are you a sax player i have i have not played sax in a minute um i bought one recently and you know threatened to start playing again but i'm mostly playing bass now and mostly playing keyboards now and played trumpet when I did Miles, you know. But wait, wait. Now it's bass. You learned how to play trumpet well enough that you could as

I played in the movie, yeah. Fuck, that was you. I mean, no, we're not going to use my sound over Miles' sound. But you needed the finger. No, I was playing. I was actually playing. Wow. Yeah.

But we're using his sound. And Keon Harold, who's a great trumpet player, was actually doing the stuff that was sort of the improv stuff and things that we were just doing on the spot. No, he was playing the sound, which I tried to tell him he didn't realize, he didn't realize was impossible to do, which is to backfill what I'm doing fingering

when I'm just improvving and make those notes actually correspond to what I'm doing. Oh, so did you improv and then somebody had to... And then he played over what I was doing. To match the finger. Yeah, which is impossible. Yeah. And I told him, you're actually a magician. You know? And he actually named his album, musician. So I was like, yeah, that's what you are. I'm glad I didn't tell you that this was impossible before you tried to do it.

This is me totally ignorant. Miles Davis. Complicated. The little I know. Genius. Monster, obviously. Amazing. I did not see the movie, so I'm flying blind. Please forgive me. But what is the monster part? No, I just mean, I'm saying that in a complementary way, not like an evil monster, but like a... I'm glad we cleared that.

Non-parallel. You know, there's no one... Yeah. Non-parall, not non-parallel. That's this. Yeah. Non-parrel. How long did you take before you started shooting to work on that?

Well, I actually when I did another movie, the Rat Pack, and Sammy, another monster, who did everything. You know, he played trumpet. And in the opening, you know, number in this movie, he taps in, he starts off playing drums, and he grabs a trumpet, and he plays the thing on the trumpet, and then he, like, taps. And I had to learn how to do all that stuff.

And so that's when I really picked up the trumpet and started trying to figure out what to do. I didn't have enough time then to play, to learn how to play, but I wanted to get the fingering right, and I wanted to get the breathing right and all that. And the first, you know, it's in a scene there's a band. And the guy that's sitting first chair in the band after I did the solo, he's like,

how long have you been playing? And I said, I don't play. He's like, oh, you could have fooled me. I was like, well, that was the goal. I want to fool you guys, you know. Yeah. He goes, you know, you could have just done that and nobody would know. He said, but it seemed like you were actually fingering the notes.

I said, no, I was. I'm trying to. How long did that pick you? For that one? Yeah. Well, that's kind of an interesting story because I was offered the part and had kept turning it down because they had never really in the script addressed any sort of the race stuff that Sammy was having to deal with within and without the rap pack, you know, even amongst his friends, the way they would make, you know, tease him and poke fun at him and talk about that stuff. And I said, we kind of have to, we have to talk to. about it. It doesn't have to be the subject matter.

Yeah. But there's no way that that stuff didn't affect him. And I just want to, we need some moments where they talk about that, where we see how it affects him. And it just kept being delayed and delayed. And I said, well, as soon as we address that, then I can talk about taking the part. And you know how everything takes forever. So ultimately, by the time that we addressed that in the script, I had about two and a half weeks to get ready. So I had a gun twirling teacher and a drum teacher and a music, you know, and a trumpet teacher. And my tap teacher was Savian Glover, which was amazing. So Savian choreographed, but he was also my personal, you know, tap instructor.

And he was just great because he didn't care. You know, he'd come in with Timberlens on and the shoes unlaced and the tongue down and standing on the back of him. And he just go, right, let's go. And he'd show you, you know, eight bars and you do it. And he'd be like, nah, nah, that's not it. That's not it. I'm like, you know I don't actually tap, say. And he's like, you got to tap.

Let's go. Wow. So it was really a trial by fire. Were you an athlete? I'm athletic, but, you know, I didn't. You went to California into the arts. I did. Did you have, like, dance?

No sports there. No. No sports in California. Did you do dance? It was a part of, you know, you had to kind of dabble in it. Because you, whatever your metier was, whatever your focus, you know, degree focus was, you had to on Wednesdays, which were the critical studies days, take other classes and other things. Right. So you could pick whatever you wanted.

Yeah, you could, well, no, there's very, mostly a conservatory, very conservative. I think we had a physics class when I went there and that was it. Yeah. But it was like you could take a, you know, drumming class. You could take a dance class. You could take something in film or TV production. You could take an animation class. You could take an art class, art history, which I took.

And I think one year I took some dance class just to see. I went to Carnegie Tech. Carnegie Mellon. Yeah. I almost went to Carnegie Mellon. Same thing. Same thing where you just show up from 8 o'clock in the morning until midnight. You're just doing theater of some kind, whether it's voice or speech.

future. I just, I fell madly in love. Me too. Yeah. It was between those, it was between acting for me, between Carnegie Mellon and Cal Arts. All right, but back up, how did you know, oh, I'm going to go to a conservatory? Oh, I want to be an actor. Had you tried, not tried, but had you auditioned and done stuff before college? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I started when I was in fifth grade, really kind of doing it and doing plays and, you know, it was famously in Charlotte's Web. You didn't see the reviews. They didn't send that to you.

I never read Terrible research You guys Terrible It was all over the Denver Denver Post I only read my reviews In 1974

You didn't see these No it was But that kind of started I had a really good You know teacher at that time Barbara Althouse was our You know

I forget What would you even call it It then It was just like you did everything She taught music She taught choir You know I had

I had instrumental, you know, I had a different teacher for Sax and when I started playing sax soon in sixth grade. But we did Charlotte's Web and I played Templeton the Rat and I had a great time. And I was like, oh, this is something. Yeah. I didn't know, I don't know it, but there's something here. And I understood that I was all right at it, that I was pretty good at it. And then when I went to junior high school, at that time it was junior high school that wasn't middle school.

Okay, guys? Yeah. I went to junior high school. Middle school. Middle school. And there was no theater then, but I started getting really heavily into jazz and into playing sax. And then when I went to high school, they were both a lot. You know, there was a very good jazz program, and there was a very good drama program.

And Kathy Davis was our drama teacher, and we wrote plays. And we, you know. There was never a chance you weren't going to become. some kind of artist. Yeah. I mean, yeah, if I wasn't going to be a musician, I had acting to fall back on, if I wasn't going to act, I had music to fall back on, both very lucrative and secure paths to being self-sufficient as a human.

Do you write music? I do. That's so cool. Obviously we've met. You've never worked with Mary, my wife, have you? No. who sends so much regards and respect your way.

Right back at you, hello. But she started writing music later in life. But anyway, music is a huge part of her life. Not true. So you write songs or just the songs? I mean, you know, I have a little setup. I have a little logic set up. And, you know, I have my bass and have my keyboards and I have mics.

And just for me, you know, I just like to do it. Do you co-write ever? I have not co-written. No. But I mean, my daughter comes over. and messing around with her guitar with me sometimes. Yeah. There is a Joe Pesciness about you.

You are. So your face gives off intelligence and kindness and not passive, but certainly not animal. And yet, you can turn on a dine and be Joe Pesci and rip somebody's face off in the most believable way. Thanks, man. I'm not sure where, I guess it's acting, but there's, you're so believable when it comes to violence. Oh, thanks, man. I work on that.

I work on that. Yeah. It's surprisingly, you don't have to, you just have to do it. It's really, you know, that's how you work on it. It is also amazing, yeah, amazing writing, too, because it's like, you're, your sweet, nice, Don, until somebody writes that you pick up a glass. and smashing into somebody's face. Then from that moment on,

you're like, wait, wait a minute. People look at Tom a little differently, you know. Yeah. And so it's the doingness. It is the doing this. And the wonderful writing that allows you to do that. I mean, you're not totally dissimilar to that. I mean, I think about, although you came to a bad end in it,

I think about the onion field. Yeah. What you had, there was an edge that is not Sam. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think there's an edge in the good place that's maniacal. Yeah.

And dark. There it is. There it is. That was not purposeful. I know. See? It's right there. Oh, you know, yeah, I, my, my go-to is nice guy.

My go-to is wanting to be nurturing and loving and kind and all that stuff. It really is. But I'm a dick. I can be a mean asses. soul. I can be, but I've only discovered that later in life because I was trained to be very sensitive. I bet other people around you could have told you that. Really? No, I didn't say, I didn't mean to go there. Not my mother. Sorry. Oh my God. Mary. I was trying to say Mary and I said mother. I was trying to say mother and I said my mother. I came out. I was raised to be my mom's

confidant, which is not a great thing. No. I don't want those. Secrets. Yeah. Later. Different, different podcasts. Yeah. I have so many things. I have so many things.

Tell me. I don't want to know all that stuff. I'm your son. Why are you saying this to me? I'd let my Mary from the South can fight. But, and I, and I, she said, I, you are as mean as a junkyard dog. And it was the first time I'd heard that phrase. and I thought it was so silly to be said about me

and I luckily have grown and developed with my relationship with Mary to realize, oh, yeah, I do have that. Which is a wonderful thing to know that you are both. I think in the right circumstances, we all have that, right? In the right condition, some people can access it much more readily,

but I think in the right conditions, anyone can, and that's, you know, to come all the way back to something, you know, that we were talking about earlier, you know, in Rwanda, the people that were doing this and that were the genociders were the day before, you know, inviting you over for breakfast. You know, you're giving, borrowing sugar back and forth. It's not like these were, oh my God, these people were bred in this cauldron of evil. And it's like, no, that's your neighbor. That's Phil. You know, it's just a person that lives. next to you in these conditions, in the right conditions, in the right circumstance. Stoked. Stoked.

Kill you. By radio. That's right. Personality. Wasn't there one or two or whatever who just ramped up the rage? Yes. There was a specific show that not only was, you know, great, you know, primer for today was whipping that up and getting people into that mood, but also gave the signal of when to go, you know. And they were also brought when it went to trial and when they had their, you know, the Gachacha, I think it's called the Truth and Reconciliation trials and stuff.

They were also noted as being the fomenters of that. You know, I was there before, I think maybe the wheels came off a little bit of the Paul Kagami presidency. And I don't know enough to really be speaking out like this. but to me it was like, you know, the reconciliation was like a model. It was. Of how to bring a country together. You couldn't even say Hutu and Thutsi for a while.

You can say those words. And as long as somebody said, yes, I did that. They weren't killed. I'm sorry. Yep. Then, okay, welcome back. Correct. Well, you're going to work on the roads for the rest of your life,

or you're going to do, you're going to be in service for the rest of your life. It's not like you don't have to pay some sort of recompense. There is not, you weren't punishment free. You were going to do something. You miss that, okay. Yeah, no, you, you didn't, it's not like you're just right back in society. But yes, if you said where the bodies were, if you said what you did, if you gave the family closure, then you wouldn't be summarily executed. But you were going to have to work.

Gotcha. You have to do stuff. I kind of must have got. All the guys on the roads and the jumpsuits. And then it's like, yeah, those are the guys that were. Wasn't there also a national, every week there was a day that everybody cleaned, whether it was sweeping dirt roads or whatever? I'm not aware of that, perhaps.

That country became a model country, you know what I mean? And not just in that way, but also in environmental ways. You know, they were the leaders and a lot of green stuff and a lot of, clean air and clean water. Did you put it with Paul Farmer when you were in that part of the world? Mayhap. Did a lot of the working with getting farms up and running, regenerative farming in that area.

Yeah, man. What an interesting life you're having. I agree. It's pretty wild. Who is some of the people, going back to acting, who you went, oh, that's a teacher for me. That's an example. about because to me, I've been doing sitcoms and half hours for so long and it's really

walking the door and hit the ground running and make the story work. Yes, working off people. Yes, Sandy Meisner technique comes in. Yes, all of that stuff. But it's not research as much. It's doing the hard thing of trying to be in the moment and trying to learn the dance because it is a dance. Oh, here's some pages that just came in five minutes. ago. All of that, yeah. But it's not what you do when you play Miles Davis. You know, it's not, where did you get the, your acting ethic? Ethic? Yes. From, definitely from high school, from my teacher in high school. Kathy Davis, who introduced us to Stanislavski and Uda Hagen and Meisner and, you know, all of these

amazing teacher is Lee Strasbourg and, you know, the work that you still do today and taught us about researching a character and building a character and act to prepare. It's just all this sort of, you know, groundwork. And then when I went to Cal Arts, you know, you're steeped in it. Yeah. You have studio all the time and you're learning script analysis, which to me is like the godsend when you learn that, how to actually analyze it. And, oh, this is an, arc, you know, this is what an intention is, and this is, these are the stakes, and this is what the characters wants are, and this is, all of that stuff, you know, is still what we do every day. And then after you've done it and done it and done it for so long, a lot of that just

becomes, you tend to use it when you get stuck. Yeah. When you can't figure something out, why something's not quite working, then you go back to you're like, okay, I got to break this down. Usually for me, it's, oh, yeah, work off your fellow. actor. Oh, always that. Oh, yeah. That's right. I'm not over there as well

where I will figure out the scene. I think that's the bedrock, right? That's really where you hopefully are in a dynamic where you're shining, they're a mirror, they're shining, you're a mirror, you're shining, you know, you're both. It's really... And it's how life should be run. Anyway,

no actors, there were heroes of years when you were starting out? Oh, for sure. Who? Sidney Poit. I mean... Did you get to meet him? I did. Me too?

It is great. I met him at Bel Air Golf Course, the Bel Air Country Club. Yeah. And I finished and they said, hey, he was like, hey, Sydney Poitier's in there. I was like, yeah, for real? He goes, yeah, he's in there. Come meet him. And I went in and I was like nervous and he stood up and he saw me and he said,

I dig what you do, man. I was like, oh my God. That's the best ever. Thank you, Mr. Poit. Would you like sit down, have some clam chowder? I was like, yeah, I'm having clam chowder. Having whatever you want, we're going to sit here and talk. And so I got to hang out with him for a bit.

And then I saw him a couple more times after that before he passed. But it was great meeting him. And Morgan Freeman was a huge, you know. Went from Easy Reader to Mean to Street Smart. I was like, wait, this is the same, dude. Yeah, yeah. Talk about somebody who seems affable. He was fucking scary.

Terrifying in that movie. Because he was still affable as well. Those are the best bad guys, right? The guys that are like, yeah, I don't, this isn't, I'll kill you while I'm smiling. Yeah. Because I kind of enjoy. Because that's kind of fun.

Yeah. Yeah. The quiet ones that don't make a lot of noise. Those are the scary ones. Gregory Peck was another one of those men that I was so grateful I got to hug. I share a Golden Globe with Gregory Peck for Rat Pack. Oh, oh. We tied.

Really? Oh, was he in Gringo then? I don't remember what it was. Yeah, that's pretty fucking cool. Yeah, that's what my mom was excited about. She's like, it's great that she's tied with Gregory Peck. Your name will always be associated. She's like, yeah, you won, but you tied with Gregory Beck.

Mary tied. Mary got a Critics Choice Award for a song she wrote for a film, Wild Rose. And she and her writing partners. And she tied with Elton John. Look at that. Much better than just winning by yourself. Absolutely. Because your name's tied to that person forever.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. He was a monster. There were so many. I mean. Elegant, elegant men. And terrifying.

Gregory Pet was terrifying in, what's the movie? We played the Nazi X? No. No. That too. That's boys in the boys from Brazil? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been a lot of scary. No, he's the, I got to know him because Mary knew him. All the good things come from my wife. I get introduced to so many amazing people. That's one of the best parts of whatever success we have. Of course. Is who you get to meet. 100%. And these experiences that we get to have and these connections that we get to make. And, you know, when you started the conversation talking about Hotel Rwanda and what that did after the film was out, you know, that was, and still to this day, I'm still a part of me, but the years that that led to, you know, the advocacy and the activism.

And again, I'm, you know, drafting people that have been, were doing it years before me, for sure. And we're much more steep than it. But understanding how your celebrity can help supercharge that stuff. and help give oxygen to things that are having trouble finding their place. It's like, oh, that's the benefit of this. That's the best use of this. Yeah. It's also smart for yourself.

When I started becoming an ocean advocate, which I've done for like 35 years or so or whatever, it started partially because all of a sudden was making a lot of money because of cheers. how do you be responsible about that? Oh, this is different. I also... You were a huge litter bug, right? You're notoriously a huge... No, no, still am.

Oh, threw a lot of stuff in the ocean. It gets its way. It makes its way there. I mean, let's be real. What do you mean? What? Hey, fuck you. Hey, there we go.

There he is. I mean... We'll cut that part out. Mask, mask, mask, mask, mask, mask. I mean, no. Mary calls me her faux, F-A-U-X, Christ. Oh, my God. Because I'm always...

Look, we need to know a lot more about this mother-wife relationship. Yeah. Wait, what do you mean? Did I say that? What do you mean? No, we cut that out, so don't even play back on it because it'll be cut out. Okay, that's fine. So disturbing, I forgot what I was about to say.

Oh, shoot. Oh, that when you, if you're a celebrity or you famous, whatever, and you just walk around and soak that up, it'll fuck you up. Right. Completely. You'll either believe it or you'll hide from it or whatever. So you go, all right, wait a minute, that's a lot of literal energy, focus, energy coming my way. Reflect that into something you care about.

That's it. Then all of a sudden you're doing something. Yeah, yeah. Brad would always say, like, I can't get out of the light and these guys can't get in the light. So I'm always trying to redirect and do exactly what you said. Oh, you're looking at me? Fantastic. Now look over here.

Okay, you just said Brad. Jesus. You mean Brad Pitt? I don't know. I don't know Brad Greenberg. Who did you think I meant? Brad Greenberg, the famous Brad Greenberg, who can't get out of the law? I just learned, I'm not going to banter with you.

I said to myself, don't banter with him. We'll rip you a new asshole. Anyway, you've just insulted Brad Greenberg. What else I want to talk to you about? Oh, Skip Gates. Yeah. Skip Gates. Skip Gates.

One of my favorite people, but I watched your, he did, we did, Mary and I did following your, finding your roots. Finding your roots. You did, what was it called? It was the same thing. Same thing. To discover that your great, great-great-grandfather was a slave who was owned by... The Choctaw.

What is it? The Choctaw. Chakta. Yeah. And I watched your face when you... Chickasaw. Chikasaw. Which part of the world is that?

Oklahoma. Oklahoma. Yeah. It's so... It is like, wait, what? Yeah. And then that tribes, head slaves. Yeah.

And then kept them. Right. Because they were a separation. Because they weren't considered humans and people. Yeah. So it's like, well, then we don't have to obey your laws. Plus, I think they had separate nation status by then. So, fuck you.

They have their own laws and their own rules. Yeah. So how are you doing nowadays? Terribly. With what's going on in the world. The worst of times. No, I'm doing great. How do you deal with, though?

I mean, your times are great, but you look around you and you go, oh, fuck. It's, it's, yeah. And we don't have to talk about that, by the way. No, no, it is, it is a daily navigation, right? Yes. Of what we were talking about, how do I show up? Yeah. What's my responsibility now in this space?

Yeah. How do I push back against this authoritarianism? How do I support people who are on the front lines of it? And it's getting more and more extreme every day, every moment. And what does it mean to have laws now? What does that actually mean? When the person who's supposed to be leading the way in that says the law is whatever my morality is, it's like your morality is the barometer for laws now?

Yeah. We're in a lot of fucking trouble if that's the truth. So I don't know. I think it's something that, you know, the instinct is to just get out of here. You know, the instinct is to go. I know a lot of people who sincerely think that. No, I know people who've already bounced. I know a lot of people are like, I'm not just talking about it.

I'm out. They've left. And other people who are, you know, I think you're foolish if you're not thinking about how to do it. You know, or thinking about what are the, you know, it's like having a go bag. You know, that's kind of a part of it now. Like, well, shit, if it goes down, you know. Like I had a friend say to me, he was like, is it too late? If it's crystal knocked, is it already too late?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And he's married to a woman who was married to her husband was Iranian. And she lived there right before the revolution. And he said, so you probably, when there were bodies on the street, that's when you probably left, right? She said, no, that's not when we left. It's like, oh, wow. She goes, you know, we had extended family.

There was a debate within our family to leave or not to leave. Some people were saying they weren't leaving no matter what. Other people were saying you have to leave. So within, you know, the nuclear family, there's sons and daughters that want to leave, want to stay. they said we have our businesses here, what are we going to do? How are we going to convert our money? It's more than a notion, as my grandmother used to say, on what you're going to actually, how do you actualize that, not just consider it? Like, what does it actually look like to pull up stakes and go and go where? And where are we going where this sort of ideology is not become kind of rampant? I mean, I think we're in the age of bullies right now. We're in the age of a lot of thuggery. and it's not like you can run away from all of this. That's also making a statement running. You know what I mean?

So I don't fault anyone for doing it. And people have to make their own decisions about how they want to live their lives and, you know, protect their families and their friends. So I think it's we're at a moment where all of that is really present and really in the front of my mind all the time. Yeah. I'm always questioning myself to of what is appropriate for me. Am I so conflict avoidance that I'm not being real, you know, or is it okay to be doing what I'm doing? I'm not Jane Fonda who leaps up on the ramparts. Yeah. You know, and full steam ahead.

I've never been that person. and sort of do it now feels, but I need to be, you know, it's like this constant conversation in my head. I think if you're awake and aware and paying attention, how could you not be having it? How could that not be on a loop?

I mean, my whole life has been, my father was an archaeologist, scientist, and once again, I'm going, is this conflict avoidance or not? But science to me is, if I'm going, Here's the science. I will, you can do what you want, but let's not lie about the science.

And that's kind of what I've been doing with ocean advocacy. This is what happens to the world's fisheries if you keep doing this. Right. You know, da-da-da-da-da. And I will talk to anyone and have, in Congress, and have people call me a whatever, I'm all right with that because I'm going, this is the science. This is data. Yeah. These are data points.

This is factual. Yes. then and so and yet oceans the environment EPA everything has been gutted and it's so many steps backward you drill baby drill time on steroids all of that yes but what just churns my heart is immigration i just if we're at the point where you can really just kick somebody's door in it doesn't and you don't have to have a warrant rand is gone all these things that we actually perhaps with rose color glasses on believed were some sort of barrier to this kind of behavior,

which I don't know why people would ever, you know, most black people are like, why y'all surprised? I know. We all are like tripping about this. Yeah. But if that's really where we're at, then it's not, and I'm not, and I'm trying to couch this in a way this,

it's not good news that everybody's getting it now or understanding it now. But as it slowly gets revealed that, yes, Yeah, everybody can be on the menu. Maybe, maybe we will be able to lock arms around something and really be like, oh, it's us against this kind of lawlessness and authority. That it's not hiding it. It's not, you know, I'm not like saying, they're saying we're not dealing with the law.

They're saying we don't care what the law is. You know, you have Scott Jennings on CNN the other day going, yeah, and what are you all going to do about it? Yeah. That's the attitude. Yeah, and do something about it. So what? So when we're in that paradigm where people who can do are just going to do whatever they want to do, then, yeah, what do we have left?

You know, I have a friend we're saying, like, the level of friendship that you're going to rely on now is like, will you hide me? You know, that's now the barrier for a friend. Like, do you have an attic? Do you have a shed that I can hide in? And it's like, that's legit where we are. People are legitimately in the streets letting people hide in their houses while they're holding kids outside to bait people to come outside. I've got your six-year-old outside here.

Come outside. I didn't hear that one. No, that's the new shit. That's now what's up. They're like holding kids outside to try to bait the parents into coming outside. And the parents are inside saying, let my kid go. And they're going, come out here and get them. And it's like, I know you're just going to grab me.

They just grab the six-year-old kid. his father sent him to Texas. I mean, this isn't new shit, but it's, it's accelerating at a rate that is frightening. And if anybody thinks that somehow being conflict avoidant or, you know, just keeping your mouth shut and hoping it doesn't happen to you, I mean, we have great sayings about all this.

First they came for the, you know, these are not, we're not in a, this is not new shit. No. This is cyclical. I wish I had some thing wise. I still am like... I don't have it either. I'm just...

I'm profoundly every day. You know, and you don't want to doomscroll. It's easy to do, though. You don't. And there are amazing people doing amazing things, and there are still love, creativity, all these amazing things to focus on... And.

And it's not... But it is and. And I think those, yes, you have to continue to do those things too. You have to continue to try to have joy. You have to continue to create. And art has been one of the only things consistently, right, in history that has pushed back against that in a way that gets past this sort of politics, gets past, you know, logic. It just hits you in your solar plexes. And you're like, oh, that's true. Oh, that's, that's inspiring me to act. Inspiration is actually the thing that, can be a countermeasure to this despair. No, you're absolutely right.

Speaking of creativity and balls, you're about to go do proof. You're about to be on Broadway. Yeah. Talk to me about that. Tell me about the play, because I don't. I'm not that familiar with it. The play is about a family where the father,

it's hard to not spoil, alert the play because something happens in the first scene where if you haven't seen it and don't know the play, You're like, oh. But the three characters are. Four characters. Four. A father, his two daughters, and his former student.

And is that you are? I'm the father. Father. Robert. Yeah. Okay. Can't spoil it. But it was made into a movie.

It was made into a movie. Yeah. I think Mary Louise Parker played the lead movie. She also did it on Broadway. And when do you start rehearsing? March 31st. And what is your commitment? Will you be doing this for about a year?

No, no. No, no. I'll be going for, we open April 16th, I believe April 16th and closed July 19th. Did Marvel make your deal for you? 18 weeks, 15 weeks? Meaning you're not doing a play for a year. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I, you know, I'm actually a free agent, you know, so I can, I can travel now. Are you? That was literally 50. I mean, that was 2008? Is that amazing? It was 17 years? Yeah. 18 years?

I don't think it's over necessarily either, but it's been a grip of Marvel. But no, this was something that I didn't anticipate doing it. I was asked to do a reading, and I owe it a beery. I'm a big fan of. We did the reading, and David was there, the playwright, and very amenable to changes and to looking at different ways to approach these scenes,

because it's an all-black family. It's not just putting an overlay on a black family when it's written as a white family. There's not a one-to-one in everything. There's a police situation that happens that we've got to kind of look at, you know? There's a situation where the sister brings shampoo over for her sister to wash her hair.

And it's like, if the black girl's washing your hair, that's the night. We're not, it's not like, that's that night. And we're not in doing more things that night. You know, so we got to like talk about, The difference is, and it's great that he isn't the play writer saying, no, this is the play. It won the Pulitzer. We're not doing anything else with it.

He's like, well, let's talk about that. It's a living piece of work. And it's great that we have the author right there and he's willing to play. When did you do a play last? The last play I did, I think was Top Dog, Underdog at the public in 2001. September 6th. second in 2001 it closed? That's a big deal.

Yeah, I'm very excited. What are you? How old are you, 51? 62. 62. Am I six? No, 61. See, but that's what I was going to bring up.

How's your brain doing, really, when you think about it? Don't ask me. If I only had a brain. Wait, is that a copyright? You can't, you'll cut that out. I think you can get about six notes in before it's a. Well, that's exciting, though. Are you going to uproot, you don't uproot family anymore.

Your kids are like, no, where are you going? My kids are 31 and 29. We'll see you out there a couple times. You're moving to New York with me. No, we're not. I hear you're on the Marvel series. Hey, yeah. That's great.

Yeah. Oh, I got to go. Click. And by the way, why are you calling me? The kids are, come watch me work. Come, I think you'll love it. Yeah. And then you hear, if they hear you working with, you know, oh, I'm working with Johnny Depp.

Oh, boom! You know, or I guess that's too old down the line. Yeah. I mean, they were, you know, we were, I was very fortunate because Bridget would travel and, you know, when we were Africa, they went to school in Africa. And that was fantastic. Yeah. That was true with Mary, too. Yeah, we would move around a lot.

And then they need some consistency and friends. And friends and all of a sudden. And all of that stuff. So, and I was very fortunate to be parked in L.A. during that time too. I was doing a series here. That's true. So I was here for, you know. Which one? The one of Christen. House of Lise. Hey, with Kristen. Now? Yeah. With Kitty. Hate her. Yeah, she's the worst. Her brain. Talk about brain. Crazy brain. Spent too much time on her already and it was only like 15 seconds.

Yeah. Thank you. Let's move on. Well set. And Dax. Give me a fucking great. God, both of them together. Here's what you don't want to do. Ivory and ivory. Right. They're both such They're both such A-types that I went Made the mistake of going to my first escape room With them

Oh, oh, yeah. Mary was in with Kristen Bell. It became, I think, boys against girls or something. Oh, I'm sure Kristen was like, And now we have to. Oh, no, they're both. I was so overwhelmed by A-types in my little cell. It was get out of jail,

of escape room that I realized there was a cot in the corner to make it look like a cell. I literally took a nap. It was pitch black. What the fuck? They're not going to know. See you guys when you solve it. I'll be over here when I hear the door open. You know, you never know career-wise or I don't.

Whether you're not Tom Cruise, because you chose not to be Tom Cruise, or there was never a chance you were going to go be movie star kind of thing. Right. I had a life where I, for 18 years in a row, I went to Paramount Studio, 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock in the morning, was home and time for dinner, slept in my own bed. I had summer off. That was 18 years? 11, cheers, 6, Becker, and then a couple of odd ones here and there. Wow.

And it was, I love it. I think I'm such a homebody. I do, I try to diminish myself and find out what's wrong with me wanting to just be there. But I love ensemble. I wanted to be a basketball player. I love team. I love knowing the crew. I love everything about it.

I love driving through studio gates. It's just thrill still. And I love that show because of the ensemble. And I love, you know, and then I did Black Monday after that and I had a great time on that with that ensemble. I love being tucked into. a group of people that all really want to be there and are love passing them all around and just having a great time and are thankful and generous. I've been very lucky and it sounds like you have to.

Oh, my God. To work with people that are just like, yeah, these people I would hang out with and do anyway. You know, don't need to be getting a check to do it. And just in the spirit of play, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think, I think I'm too boring to be around. I think assholes don't like being around me because I'm boring.

I'm not. I've never worked, I don't think, with an asshole. I've always been around amazing actors and writers and directors. I've worked with a couple that I would never name check. Who was that? Okay, let's get into it. Okay. Let's do a little AMSR.

No, don't, don't please. The people I've hated the most on set. And why? And why? One was unhygienic. They all had very small penises. very small penises. I knew.

I made a bet, by the way, with these guys, I can make you say the word penis within about an hour. Boom. Good job. That was based. Base? One last question. That's a callback. Tell me who.

It didn't have to be one last question. But tell me who you're, what's your, where is your moral center? Where's your, you know, what you look to for guidance or thought that you, have in your head always for guidance of is this right or wrong? Wow, that's a good question. I mean, I don't, to me, it's so, it's so stark right now. I mean, it's not, to me, it's very obvious, you know, I feel that where right and wrongness is. Right, okay, but.

I don't feel like I stray too much from it. and that if I do stray, I'm not unaware of it. You're having a family, having, you know, I've been with Bridget for 30 years, you know, having long, and I have friends that I've, you know, had for decades. And I think if you look up and you don't, no one who's around you has been there for the, you know, if all you guys are all new friends and all new people, you know, it's pretty easy to not be tethered.

But I think when you have these deep, long relationships and I was very fortunate to have both my parents and loving parents and they were together until, you know, my mother passed first and my father passed not long after. How long ago? My dad in 2000 and my mom three years before that. So, not 2000, sorry, 2020, rather. And my mom, 2017.

But I have these deep pillars in the ground, you know, and it's hard to not know where you are in the world when you have those reminders around you all the time. And I feel very blessed and very fortunate in every word that's in that family of words to, to feel tethered to people and to relationships and to that centering that lets you know where you're at in the world. And it doesn't mean that you're always going to act in that way, an observance of it. And I think it becomes harder and harder, and it's more challenging to every day to stand on that business of that stuff and deal with whatever comes as a result of it.

because that's kind of the sport nowadays, it feels like, is to try to knock people over, really, and not be impressed by anything, and everything is all, you know, everything's just sort of like, whatever. It's a very, it's a very tough time, I think, to put on that armor and go out in the world and be strong. And it's definitely, I imagine hard if you're alone,

in your heart if you don't have these connections. But again, I think I'm very lucky to be tethered to people and attached to people and have long, deep relationships that help keep you centered and aware. You don't get too big for your britches. You don't think you're all that, you know, no matter how, whoever you're hanging out with, you know that you're still a human being that's on this planet. And you're here to mostly be a good person. And if you're not to correct it.

And that's kind of your job here. And all this other stuff that we get to do is gravy and it's fantastic. And we get these incredible experiences. And full of pit hall falls. Absolutely. There's not an acting trap or ego trap or celebrity trap I don't fall into. Yeah, but you avoid. I will get back up.

Yeah. You look, you peek over there. But, you know, I mean, your ego is going to go down there. And especially, you know, during awards season. in. Come on. I'm above it. We keep it in perspective.

Yeah, but you have to, you know, we keep that stuff in perspective. Fuck, Brad. Mr. Greenberg to you. Sorry, Mr. Greenberg. I can't tell you how much fun it is to sit here and talk to you. I don't, I probably wouldn't, you know, I'd probably go, hey, Don, you know, in a party. of this or that. But to be able to sit down

and talk to you for an hour and whatever. Oh yeah. Let's do it again. I won't invite you in. But if you happen to walk by the garage again, we'll have another conversation. Or you can come in the garage.

It will sit in the lawn chairs. Can I use the bathroom? No, I'm sorry. Not this one. There are others. Oh, snap. Oh, snap. Oh, snap.

Oh, that's hilarious. Much love to you. Right back at you. Yeah. Again, an honor to have Don Cheadle today. Just the fact that he was here, I feel like maybe our podcast just might make it. That's it for this week. Thank you to our friends at Team Coco.

Subscribe on your favorite podcast app and maybe give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts, if you're feeling generous. If you like watching your podcasts, all our full-length episodes are on YouTube. visit YouTube.com slash teen cocoa. More good stuff for you next time where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to where everybody knows your name

with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow, our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer, engineering mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Graal, talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista.

Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergin, and John Osborne.