Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Gillian Jacobs

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

This week Ted Danson’s making a new friend, actor Gillian Jacobs. Gillian shares about her experience at Juilliard, her new movie “The Musical,” her journalism side job, the nerve-wracking story of how she got the role of Britta on “Community,” and more. 

Check out Gillian’s work: Glamour interview with American computer scientist Jean Sammet 99% Invisible episode, “The Bone Wars”“Periodic Talks” interview with Mary Steenburgen Like watching your podcasts?  Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You're a smart cookie. I don't know. I'm a cookie. You're a cookie. Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. I've been asking around about today's guest, Gillian Jacobs. And everybody says the same thing, that they love her and her work. Whether it's The Bear, NBC's community, or love on Netflix or girls.

She's an amazing actor. She's currently starring in the film The Musical that's in theaters now. Here she is, Gileon Jacobs. I started this conversation with Gileon outside talking about having a brain scan because I want to make sure my brain stays sharp. And now you can do that, evidently. But now everything I say today that's kind of a mistake will be at. Hey, we come kind of from the same town, Pittsburgh. Yes.

Where are you from? Arizona. But you see what I'm saying. Uh-oh. I went to Carnegie. My mother worked there for 20 years. I know. Yes.

Yeah. Oh, you got a good research team. I did. Actually, yes. Brilliant. Brilliant. But I wonder if I've talked to her. Is she still doing it?

No, no. I don't think you guys would have overlapped. She started there in like maybe 95, but she wasn't at the arts school. Right. alumni. Yes. Yeah. So it's possible. It's possible. I left in 72, but she may have tried to get you to come to some events in L.A. or the L.A. kind of clan thing or something. I'm thinking that there's somewhat of a correlation between you going to Juilliard and me going to Carnegie Mellon because they're very similar. Yeah. I think. They are. And you showed up, though, having had a lot of training. And I

just wondered because I've heard you that you said that you had some trouble. That's a kind way of putting it. Or, yeah, or a point of view about the training you were getting or whatever. And I just remember all the people who had acted before coming to Carnegie had rightfully strong opinions. I had done nothing before I got to Carnegie. So I was just like a puppy. Can I ask you what? because I have respect for Julia Art.

I respect for all of this stuff. Can I ask you what was the issue? I'm just curious. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I have no problem talking about it. Yeah, so Juilliard, I think at that point in time. The year? What year?

I graduated in 2004. Okay. But it was very much still in the like, we're going to train you to speak in this mid-Atlantic accent. Right. As though you're in a film in the 1930s. Same Carnegie. Yes.

And my feeling was that if, I did this, I would not work when I graduated because I felt like what I'm most likely going to be auditioning for. You probably would not be speaking like this. Yes. Yes. And that I felt like buffing away all of a person's individuality in terms of like their voice and being able to slightly tell where they come from was not necessarily going to be an asset.

Like I wanted to be flexible as an actor and not just only be able to play somebody from Pittsburgh. Right. But I did not really want to speak like Catherine Hepburn, even though she was my icon when I was growing up. Do you remember your speech teacher? I remember all of them. Yes. Whisper. Their name.

Yes. I was not their favorite student. I think it was a mutual. We had the classic speech teacher, Edith Skinner. Oh, yes. Who was famous. Speak with distinction. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes, her Bible. And I think she had retired way before that, I think, but she went to Juilliard. The ethos was still very much present, though. It was very scary. You know, urban legend was somebody, you know, why were you not here last week? My father, no. What was your excuse? My father's dead. No, no. Your father's dead. You know, correcting tragedy as it comes out of your mouth.

I remember them telling people that they were mispronouncing their own last name. You know, it was like, this is, I think this is going a bit far. Let the person have their name as they grew up saying it, yes. I know, and the Liquid You, where the tutor's new pupil at Tuesday and all of this.

That's how they wanted us to speak. I've gone into the forest, you know, to find blueberries. Have you done Shakespeare? Yes. I was a Shakespeare obsessive as a child. Like I loved Shakespeare. Yes.

Why? I know. No, no. I mean, that's a silly, stupid, ignorant question. But as a child. Yes. I saw Kenneth Brenna as much ado about nothing. Okay.

And I saw Emma Thompson. And I was like, I want to be Emma Thompson. I want to be in this world. I want to, you know, I want to do this. I just want to be transported into the world of this movie and be a part of this. And so that just kickstarted it for me. And I started reading Shakespeare and I got to perform some Shakespeare as a kid. Where?

At the Pittsburgh Public Theater. I don't know if you ever were involved with it when you were in school. But yeah, this director, Eddie Gilbert, who was the artistic director, he kind of became our early mentor to me too. So when I was 12, he cast me as a page. And as you like it, I had like three scenes. And then I did play Titania at 16. I got scathing reviews, which I think were earned.

But I got the experience of being to Tanya in like a full equity production of adults. So it was, you know, it was a little awkward, you know, because I signed up for a theater criticism course. And one of our field trips was to go to the office of the critic who had panned me in the The Post Gazette. Wow. Why? For what purpose? We were learning about theater criticism, and so it's like, this is our big,

exciting field trip. We got to go to, like, the theater critic, you know, of Pittsburgh's office and get to see a newspaper office. But he and I both, and I remember he very kindly said, I heard you got better as the run went on. Like, he was trying to concede to me. But he was not wrong, I think, looking back. Was it just because you wanted to be all things?

things theater, including critic? I think, yeah, I think I was excited in anything that they had to offer. I wanted to do. I wanted to, you know, I would do, I did dinner theater,

I did children's theater, I did Summerstock musicals and rep. I did anything that needed a child, any opportunity presented. I just soaked it up. I had an endless appetite for it. I'm saying, wow. I mean, I felt the same way once, what was I, 21, 22.

When I discovered acting at Stanford and the light bulb went off, I literally drove my car to the back of the theater and slept in the back of my station wagon, and that was it. Wow. Dropped everything else and did that then transfer to Carnegie. But you started so young. Yeah, and I was about eight. Not all you eight-year-old actors survive into, you know, adulthood great acting chops.

I think I was very lucky in that my mom was a bit clueless and didn't have ambition for me. Ah, that's true, I'll bet. Oh, that's really interesting. So I was leading at every point. You know, I was saying, I want to take more classes. I want to do, I want to audition for this play. I want to do this. It was, and she was encouraging and she was supportive.

And looking back now, you know, she was working a full-time job and then having to drive me to and from rehearsal like an hour outside of where we lived and really sacrifice for me. But it was always following my obsession with it. Yeah. Yeah. So I never did it beyond Pittsburgh. I didn't try to go to New York or L.A. So how did you go from Pittsburgh to Juilliard? Was that the leap?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and I grew up thinking I will go to Carnegie Mellon because everyone ahead of me who were, you know, like Zach Quinto, he was like a star of Pittsburgh high school theater. I knew these kids who were older than me in acting classes and they'd be like, oh, they're going to, you know, CMU, that's what you want to do. It's really good training. My acting teacher taught there. I knew the faculty. I knew the students.

My mom got a job there because if you worked there for six years, you got a steep discount on tuition. So she was like when I was 12, she got a job there to plan ahead. Really? Yes. Oh, very supportive. Yes. Not a stage mother, but very supportive. And also like, what can I do, you know, financially to make this a reality?

And then someone offhandedly said, oh, you should audition for Juilliard as well. And I don't even know if I knew about the school prior to that. It wasn't a dream of mine. But I thought, okay, I'll do it. You know, you can't just. only audition for one school. And so then I got in. And my poor mom, you know, she's six years into working at this place.

And I think she took a lot of comfort. I'm an only child, single mom. I was going to be on campus with her. And I also had a moment of realizing that's not going to be good for me developmentally to go to college where my mother works were already enmeshed. How old are you? I was 17. Okay.

That's real. Yes, and so I thought I've gotten into this school, which is very esteemed. It's in New York. I can get, you know, from Pittsburgh to New York through the school. And hopefully I get an agent at the end of this. And I really think I broke my mother's heart by not going to CMU. But then she fell in love with New York. So it was lessened.

So you arrive, they don't have dorms, do they? They did, but the time I got there. Oh. They didn't initially. Um, yes. They, they had dorms. And so it was, they built this tower literally next door to the school. Yeah. So it was like the offices for all the Lincoln Center, you know, the opera, the ballet. They had their offices in this tower and we lived in the upper floors of the dorm. So I just walked from the dorm to the school, dorm to the school. Like I didn't leave Lincoln Center probably for, you know, weeks at a time. I was the same way. I had no idea that Carnegie had a football team. I didn't know who the Pittsburgh Steelers were. You would get up at eight.

I mean, I did. I was going to say, was that a good time for the Steelers? How were they doing? Yeah. I just talked to Terry Bradshaw. You did? Yesterday. Oh, my God.

So a real good time. Yeah. Well, he was 70. He started in 70 and I left in 72. But anyway, you'd get up at 8. You'd go have a, did you have like a class called Dynamics or something where you would stretch your body in the beginning of the day? Yes.

Right. And then you'd stumble home or back to your dorm at midnight after having rehearsed the play or this or that. Wasn't it great? It was. It was. No, no, no, it was. It was deeply immersive. And you know, it's funny.

I've been volunteering at this middle school in Altadena at this, it's this, it's a public school, but it's a arts magnet. And so I've been volunteering in the theater department. Who are you? It's great. I don't know. I'm an odd person. but they're actually doing, they're doing Macbeth, these middle school kids. And I went to a rehearsal yesterday and talking through the script and the scene and trying to give them ideas,

it really does give me appreciation for my training. And the things that were so embedded into me that they're unconscious in the way I approach character or a script or script analysis, the things you just kind of do. And having to articulate it to them makes me really, appreciate everything I was given by that experience. That's so funny. Sandy Meisner, neighborhood playhouse, another great, one of the greatest teachers, I think. Anyway, I went from Carnegie and I was so scared.

It was 72, New York, which was the Wild West. And I was walking around the streets going, oh, dear Lord. I don't know if I'm going to survive, basically, from Arizona. and I went straight to Juilliard and oh hell, what was his name the early kind of founder of it? Michael Hausman. Yeah, houseman.

John. John Hausman. Together we got it. We got it. That's what I'm learning. Your brain doesn't have to be perfect. Team up with somebody. No, no, no, no, no. Together.

I was thinking Michael Con. Yes, I had the houseman part. John Houseman. John Houseman. The paper chaise? Yes. Yes. Yeah.

I went to him, I said, I think I can I enroll? I mean, you just graduated from Connie. I know, I don't think, you know, and he saw what was going on. He said, I'd tell you what, if you still feel that same way next year, come and you can enroll in Julia. And by then I got over my fear and it felt, you know, New York's one of those places that you just, once you grab it and love it, you love it. Yeah. Or at least it was that way for me.

Yeah, and I feel like I had the kind of. soft entry of moving there for school, being so busy that I really had like a slow introduction to New York, even though I was living there. But you were living there because we all felt leaving Carnegie, we were supposed to go to a repertory company. Yes. Trains you to go to the repertoire. Yes.

TCGs, did they still have that when you were? I mean, that was what we were being trained to do. And it was less of a thing than when you had graduated. And that was part of my thinking. I was like, this world doesn't exist beyond like. the Guthrie. Like, there is no American Repertory Theater anymore. And no one would have us. No one

in our class. So we all went to New York. Anyway, I'm trying to bond with you. We're bonded. You don't have to try. I'm just like you. Do you know that we actually met on Zoom years ago? Your wife graciously appeared on a

now defunct podcast that I briefly co-hosted and you were helping her set it up because it was in the pandemic. and I think you were on another property. And so we met very briefly and you were very kind. So I already feel bonded to you. Isn't she a doll? She's my dream.

I mean, I'm just using you to try to get closer to her. Oh, that's my life. Yeah. And I so respect you for that. I'm serious. Oh, that's so cool. No, she's just. You just put me totally at ease.

Oh. I'm yours. That's great. Yeah. Podcast. Yeah. Now I just like guest report. for somebody else's podcast,

but for a minute, I had one of my own. And? I love it. I love it because they let me do whatever I want. Like I just did an episode about rival paleont. They don't. These guys don't.

They don't. You got to come over to 99% invisible. It's much cushier than this. Gorgeous studio. But I just did one about two rival paleontologists. It was so fun. I got to go to the next. Natural History Museum in New York. They let me down in the big bone room in the basement,

and I got to touch, you know, dinosaur skin and interview paleontologists. What do you mean? Warring, was that set up, or did you discover there were these? So my friend had told me years ago about this true story from the 19th century of like the early days of paleontology in the United States when they first started to discover these massive dinosaurs on a scale never before seen in the West. And these two men, one from Philadelphia, one who was at Yale, were both early avid bone hunters. And they developed this intense rivalry and tried to ruin each other's careers. They would try and steal workers from each other. They would like, one of them would like create a false fossil to try and trick the other one

and expose them as an idiot. They would like comment. against each other so much in scientific journals that they were banned from like writing in about each other. The journal said like enough, enough. You can't just endlessly critique each other. It got so bad that it turned into this whole tabloid affair where they were on like the front page of the New York Herald about this bone war between these two men that went all the way to a congressional hearing where they like ended up defunding science for decades because they had been such an embarrassment to everyone that the senators used it as an opportunity to be like, what are we funding, like, and cut all the federal grants?

I hope the administration doesn't hear this conversation. They seem to not need an excuse. People like dinosaurs. You know, dinosaurs are still popular. I grew up in that community. My father is an archaeologist. What? Yeah, anthropologist, director of a museum.

I grew up cleaning museum glass, you know, cases. There was the ancient sloth and bones that they had discovered nearby. Okay, moment of connection. Before my mom was at CMU, she worked at the Natural History Museum in Pittsburgh. And so some of my earliest memories are going into Dinosaur Hall and getting to go behind the scenes at a museum. And that's always my dream in life is to be behind the scenes at a museum. Wow.

You're a smart cookie. I don't know. I'm a cookie. You're a cookie. I'm going to have to add that time. This is my wild inappropriate, basically only around my wife saying, you girly girls don't mind if I call you sweet chicks, do you? So I'm going to have to add cookie to that.

Sorry. Oh, brother. It's that scan I had. It just rearranged stuff. But I grew up around bones and shards and broken pots and mostly southwestern. ananasazi kind of culture, not Africa or anywhere else like that.

But yeah, they used to let me go on the digs with them. Wow. Not go on, but I was five or six or seven. They would let the kids play in the ancient trash heaps where whatever tribe

or people would throw their broken this and that. And we dig around. Yeah. Was that magical? Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. Okay, keep going. Keep going. You graduated from Juilliard. Yes, I graduate from Juilliard.

I have the classic debate of do I go to L.A., do I stay in New York? Do you have any professional connection to the city at that point? Los Angeles. No, agent or? Oh, yes. I thankfully, I did the showcase at the end of the four years. I got a manager. I got an agent. Wow. I got very lucky. And that's what I had learned from CMU. It was like, if you can graduate, you can do the showcase. And if you do the showcase, and I didn't know how I have so much admiration for people

who move without that kind of set up because I didn't know how to do it other than that. So I got very lucky and I was auditioning, but, you know, still in the days of, by the time you made the tape in New York and it got mailed to L.A., the part was cast. It felt like, you know, in pilot season, you always just felt like,

I need to be there. They would tell you, you got to be. Yes. So I'd come back and forth to L.A., audition, do a pilot season, do a pilot that didn't get picked up, go back to New York. Any nibbles that gave you hope? Yes. And I was working in independent film. I was getting, yeah, I was getting to do movies.

So I was getting to learn how to be on camera, which was something I really had to learn because I... First independent film was... Building Girl. Nice. Yes. And this is out of New York. This is New York. Yeah, it was a great cast, like very low budget, but what did I know?

Right, right. I mean, I didn't know anything about it. So, yes, I learned a lot. I learned a lot about being on camera because I'd grown up acting for the stage. Yeah. Yeah, but they would get really confusing for me anytime I did a multicam. I don't know how you felt about this because I kept wanting to open up to the studio audience. And they kept yelling at me to play it to the camera,

but I was drawn like a moth to the sound of the audience. Yeah, yeah. And so I really struggled with that. I only did a few multi-cam pilots that didn't go. But that one I found really hard. Was it difficult for you or did it just feel natural? We were in such good hands. You know, for me, well, I did a Laverne and Shirley in a taxi,

but basically, obviously, Cheers was my training ground. and Jimmy Burroughs was just, you know. I wish I could have worked with him. Oh, yeah, no. Honey, honey. He called men, women, boys, girls, honey, honey. And he just passed away. Yeah.

No, you know what? Yes, it was an acquired skill. But the audience, as you know, from theater and, you know, sitcoms takes you to a new level. Yeah. audience. You can rehearse. You can be brilliant in rehearsal. We used to just, you know, let the audience go after we basically got it, but now we need to stick a camera in here where you couldn't have with the audience. They rarely used it because the energy drop was so, you know, obvious between audience performance and non-audience performance. It really does

instruct you. Yes. Well, I've had that experience from doing plays where you think you know, where the laughs are. And then you get it in front of the audience and that thing you sure was going to kill, you got nothing. And that thing you're just saying straight, you know, you're not trying to get a laugh. Suddenly is the biggest laugh. Until the next night when you go, oh, all right. You really put a little something on it and then the laugh is gone.

Yeah. And then it's the whole journey of how do you get back to that laugh? Yeah. Yeah. To throw it all away to try to get back to what you were doing unconsciously. Yeah. God, it's in a great business we're in. Are you saying that sincerely?

Yeah. Okay. Oh, my God. I love acting. I don't know how many years, but I still am thrilled to go through, you know, a studio gate. Yeah, I know. It's pretty special. Special actors.

I love actors. Yeah, I do, too. It's a great profession. It is. It's a noble profession. Yeah. I know. When I was a kid, my aunt and uncle took me to the George Bernard Shaw Festival in Canada.

Jesus. You're, go ahead. And I got obsessed to the point where I somehow convinced my sweet mother to make that our family vacation for five years. And no one in my family had an interest in George Bernard Shaw but me, but they would entertain this. And I would go see, you know, up to three Shaw plays a day. They would have a noon, a short one, a one act, and then a matinee in an evening. And I would memorize all the company members of this theater company. And I would memorize their, you know, their biographies and their credits.

And I just thought that this was like the height, the height of acting and excitement was to get to, you know, do shaw. Here's where we, uh. Part ways. You're taking a little higher road. I'm taking the low road. Oh, wait, what was your low road? I like everything. See, I grew up without a TV.

Okay, that's great. Yeah, it was. No, it was ideal until it. But I just, when I'd go visit Cousins and they had a TV, this is in the 50s, and they had a TV guide, I would study the TV guide and underline what I was going to watch later that day, and I was just thrilled by TV. I did that too. Mrs. Stoby, my babysitter, had a subscription to TV guide, and I read that thing cover to cover. I love TV.

Ah, good. Yes. But the whole play thing. But I also loved plays. I got scared. I love plays, too. But I was the only student in my class at Carnegie that did not perform on the main stage of Shakespeare play. I fell through the cracks. I have no idea.

And speech class was hard for me. And Shakespeare, hence, was kind of hard for me. So when any, even you, I started to sweat a little when you talked about, yeah, about Shakespeare. I feel like a phony. No. I have to duck my head. Well, I do. But I, you know, whatever.

They gave me, you know, lady in waiting and loves labor's loss my senior year. I had maybe two lines. I don't know that I was their favorite Shakespeare actor when I was there, but I came into it with all this childhood affection for it. But, I mean, I just like, I loved the language. I loved the drama of it. I like, I mean, it really helped with the SATs, all that vocabulary I gained from it. I was going to say that to the kids yesterday.

I was like, this will pay dividends, even if you don't want, want to do Shakespeare again. You're going to learn a lot of words doing this play. What have you done? Have you had the opportunity to do Shakespeare on stage? No, not since college. The only thing I've gotten to do, I don't know if they ever roped you into this, but Rita Wilson and Tom Hanks would do this one-day Shakespeare benefit for the Shakespeare company here in L.A. Oh, I don't know if they still do it, but I did it for like maybe three years in a row. And it was so fun because there was no pressure. It was one day you got to perform script in hand at night.

The whole play. They would do like a cut down version of it. But they would assemble just the greatest group of people. And so that was the last, that was the only time since college I've gotten to do it. But they let me do some really great parts. And that was really fun. But I haven't done a full production since then. I do wonder, could I still memorize all of that? I have that fear about doing a play.

I would have to really put more time in it, I think. Yeah. That's my, that's where I'm starting to sweat. It's not here, it's here. But I'm sweating, thinking about that. Fear, too. Fear, too. It's such a stinky sweat.

Isn't it? Fear sweat. It has a new pheromone to it. It's not heat. It's fear. This is why they say, don't show fear for a bear. Yeah. They're just going, oh, man, they're scared to death.

They know. Dogs, no. You don't even, yeah, you can't hide it. The idea of doing a play and remembering lines, I have to say. I did this play. where my character only exited to change costumes, so I would do a solo direct address monologue to the audience. I'd be like, this is what's going on with me.

And then I would go into a scene with another person, and then I'd say, direct, and so, you know, I'm out there. No one but me for the monologues, just like your situation. And one night I started saying the wrong monologue. And I was like, if I keep going with this, I'm really going to mess up the rest of the play. And somehow I was like, I don't want to talk about that. I want to talk about this and just switch over to the...

It was so natural what she did. You know what I've realized? Audiences are very forgiving with plays, because they don't know. That could have well been like, you know, a quirk of the character. But I was like, thank God I thought of something because I'm out there all alone

and the abyss just opens up before you. Yeah. It's funny how theater stories, you tell TV's show stories or movie stories. They pale in comparison. Yes, the terror. to the stories that come out of theater. Oh, yes.

Yeah. Oh, my God. I know one time I did a play and the lighting board broke and we only had one lighting queue for the entire second half of the show and you're just trying to like pop into the one pool of light, you know, re-block it as you go. I mean, it does make you feel kind of like I'm unstoppable if I could get through this. I was so lucky my first job in New York was understudying a Tom Stopper. two-act, two-one acts,

the real inspector hound and after McGrath. And it came about a year after the run began. So all the lead actors were like, I need a long weekend or whatever. So I was on every night

with this wonderful material. It's a great, great way to learn. Oh, my God. I love Tom Stoppard. Very funny. Oh, my God. That's so cool. Yeah, it really was.

Wow. 125 smackers a week. Hey, Nan. Now, boom. Where were you living on that kind of dough? $90 studio apartment on 90th, just off Columbus. $90. $95.

A month. Yeah. I know. Wow. Yeah. Very shortly, everything went up to like, but it's still for a really nice apartment. But we're talking in 1975. I know.

Huge difference. Yeah. Brownstones, you could pick up for $250,000. Oh, my. God. You know. You kids, you have no idea. I missed that window.

Yeah. It seems like a glorious time. Okay. Okay. Tell me about your movie that's coming out. Okay, yes. Yeah, the promotion. I have, yeah.

Yes. But Mary and I looked at the trailer last night. It was like, oh, we have to see this. It looked fantastic. Well, I'll say, you know, Will Brill, who's the musical. It's called The Musical. It's the name of the film. It's not a musical film.

No. It's just a film entitled The Musical. Will Brill is really the star of the movie. He is brilliant. And he won a Tony for Stereophonic, this play that was on Broadway. Right. And he is a... Oh my God, I saw him.

Yeah. He's brilliant. And went to CMU. Ah. Yep. See? See? Woof.

See? Yeah. Zing. There you go. So he's a team. teacher at a middle school, as am I. Rob Lowe is the principal. Will's character and mine had previously been in a secret relationship. We've broken up. He comes back for the new year thinking that he can restart. Turns out I'm already dating Roblo. He becomes obsessed with who he hates.

Who he hates vengeance. He wants vengeance and revenge and he's petty and he's mean. And he is manipulative and he is just brilliant. I feel like I'm doing these press events as Will Brill's booster. Like, I'm his number one fan because I think he is truly an astounding actor. You know, and you love actors, when you're in a scene with an actor and you're going, what? Like, when they're, you know, and you're inches away from it and they're doing the scene and they're bringing so much more to it than you imagined and it's subtle and it's unexpected and it's dangerous. and you have to stay with them and you got to keep up, that's how I felt acting with him.

That's very cool. I think he's a person worth knowing. Yeah. Good for you. How long was that? It was a really short. It was a no budget indie. We shot at Immaculate Heart over in Los Felas,

but we didn't have full control of the campus, so we would be in the middle of a scene, and they'd be like, we got volleyball practice. So you guys got a clarifal practice. You guys got to clear out. We're going to do volleyball practice. And then you can come back in or, you know, we'd set up a scene outside and be like, that's actually where we're doing senior picture day.

So can you pivot to another scene? And so it was funny to be like surrounded by kids, you know, and just the life of a school. And they were very gracious to have us, but also not going to stop what needed to happen for the normal course of the school. So, yeah, my dressing room was a classroom. I was in a French teacher's classroom. That's where I changed. did like, you know, I could see the posters on the wall and the projects from last year. And I'd never been to that campus. It's so cool. It's right by AFI, not far from here.

So how'd you get the part? Did they know your work and offer it? Did you audition? I got the, I got an email saying read this as soon as possible. I think someone dropped out because it was a very quick turnaround. I don't think there's a part I got that someone didn't drop out. I don't know who, but it was a very quick turnaround. And they were like, if you like it, meet with the director tomorrow at 8 a.m. Oh, wow. And so I read the script.

I met Giselle, the director the next morning at 8 a.m. She's great. And I said yes. And then very quickly, like within a week or something, we were shooting. So it came together very fast for me. I think it was a long journey for her and the writer because they started, it started as a short. They were at AFI at the same time, the writer and the director. So this was a much longer journey for them.

and I kind of just came on right at the end. Boy, AFI, they buddy up. Mary's son Charlie. Oh, yeah, I know Charlie. Do you? Yes. Okay, now I'm just in love with her. Isn't he wonderful?

He's wonderful. Yeah. Tell him I say hi. I will. I won't overstate my knowing him, but we know each other. Yeah, that's very cool. But AFI, you make connections and the DP that you worked with on your student film. All of a sudden, you're making major motion pictures.

together. It was the same. The DP on our film, they'd all gone to AFI together. So yeah, that was, it was sweet. And we were just down the hill from where they had all gone to school. So it felt like really an outgrowth of, of that program. Very cool. Do you know what you're doing next? I'm pitching a podcast episode that I want to, to report. Now, when you, so you go out into the field for the podcast. For this one show, 99% Invisible, they have a lot of guest contributors. So for the last couple of years, they have let me basically pitch them

when I have an episode. And then I get to work with this amazing producer, Vivian, and she and I do the research and do, you know, do all the interviews and write the script and put it all together. So it's like a scripted segment, 60 minutes. Yeah, it's like closer to like an NPR, like a, yeah, like a this American life.

But it's not the same tone. But it's like, yes, we write the full script of, like, you know, cutting from the clip, the audio clip from the interview to, like, the pros of explaining the story of it. So it's very written, which is a fun challenge for me because I didn't have any kind of formal college education beyond acting. Well, that's very cool, though. That really stretches you. It does.

It's really stretched to me. And I started, I directed a few documentaries. Yeah, tell me about, I read one in it, but it was over my head. What was it about? Tell me, I did one about a woman who was like early in the days of computers, starting in World War II on a secret computer. I did one about women who worked at Marvel Comics as writers and editors and artists. I think it was the first one.

Yeah, this woman, Grace Hopper. Yes. Yes. That was fascinating. So that was a full-on, though, documentary, visual. Yes, yes. It was like a 15-minute visual documentary. And that one really, I'd met this producer, Dan Silver,

who was at 30430 films at ESPN. And then they acquired 538.com, and they wanted to do docs in the style of the 30-for-30 sports docs, but about STEM, like computing, statistics, things like that. and he was watching Halt and Catch Fire, that show that was on AMC, and they made a passing reference, I think talking about McKenzie Davis's character, like, you could be the next Grace Hopper.

And he was like, who's that? And he looked her up. And he realized that she was this woman who's very important in the earliest days of computing as like an industry as a profession and also on this secret computer on World War II. And I had met him, I pitched him sports docs that he was like, that's sweet. until you don't know anything about sports. But I guess my enthusiasm stuck with him. So when he came across this idea,

he thought of me and called me, and he sent me a one sheet on her. I did not understand a single thing. It was like all computing acronyms from the 1950s, like Univac, you know, and ENIAC, and, you know, I didn't understand any of it, but I thought, like, yes, I want to do this. And so I had to learn all about

computers when they were the size of this room and these various secret computers. Hers was at Harvard. There was another one in Philadelphia that they were calculating like a lot of ballistics trajectories during World War II. And then these like first computing companies after the war as it was becoming a field. And she worked on the UNIVAC computer, really helped popularize it, which was like a very important early computer. And then that sent me down a whole like STEM computing.

I don't know what that is. STEM is statistics. No, it's been so long. Science. You see, I got it wrong. This is how vague my understanding of anything is. But it's, you say it. Science technology and mathematics.

Yes, I've forgotten already what STEM stood for. They had to look it up. They had to look it up. Together. Four brains. Together. Together we're better. Together we're better.

So that sent me in a whole side trajectory. And then I got to like interview one of the only women who was roughly her age that was still alive was this woman, Jean Sammet. I met her at this event in D.C. I got Glamour magazine to agree to let me interview her. And I was so scared. Talk about fear, sweat, but it was on the phone because she was like a no nonsense. Yeah. You know, woman.

and she'd felt like the history of the 50s computing had been misreported, and I think she was very suspicious that I was going to make all the same mistakes that people had. And so I did just like tremendous amount of research and was on the phone with her for hours and talking to her about being a part of creating this programming language called Cobal, which do you remember when the Y2K crisis was happening? Yes. the problem was that they never anticipated it being used until 1999 into 2000, and it couldn't handle converting from 1-9 space to 2000.

So she was on the committee that created this programming language in the 1950s. That was only supposed to be a temporary language. But then it got used in so many ways, like still to this day, like banking, military, government. Like they couldn't extract this computing. language. And so I was able to be conversant enough with her that she didn't dismiss me outright and say like, you are a fool. But she, I think I've never been more afraid in my life than when I was speaking to this woman, Jean Samet, on the phone. Because I'm so out on the limb,

I don't even remember what STEM stands for. Like, this is, you know, I'm stretching the very limits of my understanding. But it was just, it was exciting and fascinating to me. I love the You're such a self-starter that you are so curious, that you are courageous. I love all of that stuff. And then you get to go act and be told where to stand. Totally. But when you're not doing that, you get to go off and do these amazing things. Good for you.

Thank you. Directing, directing. I haven't. I directed a short film. I think I have too much respect for it. I think I've got to get over the kind of like reverence for it. I want them way smarter than me. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I want to learn more. I think I want to learn more about lenses. I want to learn more about lighting. I want to like know more. I feel it out there, but I'm still a little afraid. And that's why I think I'm like, I like the documentary stuff. I like the, you know, acquiring the archival material, like finding where the pictures are, getting them to give us. the rights to that footage that's in that archive and assembling that. And I love doing the interviews. Were you good academic? I was. I was. My, sounds like. My, I mean, my dad's family has such a high bar for academics that I would say within my family, I did not feel like I was, like, very high achieving. Right. But it was very important to my parents that I do well in school. And I liked learning, but I wouldn't say that I, like, I mean, some of my cousins, some of my aunts and uncles, I think, are just so much smarter than I am. But I like it. And it was very important. I just couldn't. I know. I really, I was surrounded by scientists.

Yeah. My sister listened to every word spoken. I mean, we would have scientists from around the world, you know, come to the house and my father would entertain. them because they were visiting and they'd have these amazing conversations and my sister would be just sitting in the corner listening and I was off trying to find skulls with holes in them up in the mountains. Well, you did it. I did it. I did it.

But man, when acting came into my life, it was just this major. Oh, I found my tribe. Yes. Yeah, I felt that. I mean, I felt very isolated socially. I mean, the reason I started acting was because the teachers called my mom. said she has no friends. During recess, she's walking around talking to herself. She's not playing with anyone. You need to find her some kind of extracurricular where she can meet people and

make friends. Were you aware of that? I knew that kids, like I had two friends in elementary school who both, maybe not explicitly, but communicated to me, were not friends anymore. And so I definitely feel like when someone says, to you, let's play the stay quiet game and see how long you cannot talk. You're not the most socially adept person. That's funny. I did try that with my kids sometimes. Let's pretend to take a nap together. Did it work? No.

Okay. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So did you, were you, did that hurt your feeling? Yes, very much. But then when I got to the acting class, it's what you described. when you pulled around the theater and I was like, these are my people. Yeah. They seem to like me more. Like whatever's odd about me is tolerated, embraced, accepted. It's an asset here.

And the teachers were really nice to me. And I felt like on some level I understood it, even though I had so much to learn. And it became ravenous for me. that's like, you know, and then when I fell in love with the Shakespeare of it, and it, yeah, it was just, it was all consuming for me. That's why it's so important to have arts in the schools because you probably did better academically, you know, there are people who learn differently, so music, sports is wonderful, but if you take music and acting and theater and all of that stuff out, you're just, it's so sad

because people, everything gets better. I've seen it volunteering for the last couple of years. I've seen it firsthand with these kids. I have to shout out, it's Elliott Arts in Altadena, and they have incredible teachers there. And they just have, they're the teachers that you would dream for your children to have, and the teachers you wish you could have had, you know. And I've watched these kids like blossom.

And at the end of the last school year, I came to their, final performance of the spring musical. And they have a routine where they do a whole cast warmup, where they stand in a big circle and they do the normal vocal exercises and everything. But for the last performance, each eighth grader gets to give like a little speech because it's their final show at this school before they go to a high school. I hated middle school. Like I did not fit in there.

I was waiting for Saturday to go to my acting class, which was, you know, a 35, you know, in Oakland, you know, the neighborhood. These kids, these eighth graders were crying about not wanting to leave their middle school, about they weren't ready to graduate, how much they loved the school, talking about the teachers, how much you've helped me get through this. You know, this school lost their campus to the fires. A lot of these kids lost their homes to the fires. And they're talking about how they don't want to leave middle school.

And I was like, what an experience to have had that you've found this school and these teachers and these classmates where it's been so. embracing and supportive and a place for you to grow and change that you don't want to leave. I couldn't have imagined saying those words when I was their age. And so I wholeheartedly believe in arts education in the schools. And not that you need to become a professional at it, just to have the experience of it. Like just to get to see if you like it or what it inspires in you or a different way to communicate or just an outlet and an emotional outlet. I've seen it, not just for myself for these kids.

Who do you hang out with? I want to do some other stuff, but who do you hang out with? Who do I hang out with? Yeah, do you hang out with other actors? Do you hang out with family? You know, family, you're it here, right? Well, I've moved my mother out here, yeah. So, yes, actors, but one of my best friends is a painter.

A lot of writer friends, journalists, friends. Look at you. Renaissance. I don't know. I mean, I've drawn to people who are smarter than me, you know, who know about things I don't know about. Yeah, I'm, I also have dear friends that are actors as well, absolutely. Who do I hang out with?

I don't know. I'm a homebody. I've been trying very, my therapist assigned me to, like, be more social. Isn't therapy great? It's so wonderful. The best. Yeah. So she gave me, you know, an assignment.

So I'm working out of that. I'm working out of making plans and doing things. We're such homebodies. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I've been trying to like do more things around L.A. too. Yeah. Like things, you know, on that list.

Because L.A. is brilliant. It is. Yeah. You know, it was really fun. I don't know if you've ever done this. The old Bullock's Wilshire, that's now Southwark. Western Law School, that Art Deco Tower. Right.

Once a year, they open it up to the public because they actually did a good job of preserving a lot of the art deco, you know, finishes and architecture. And so my friend Chris and I went and toured that and were just geeking out at like the building. And there's all these things around L.A. that, you know, I feel like sometimes you've got to seek it out more. Yes. It's not in your face. It's not in New York. It's not like it's in your face in New York. Yeah.

But so I've been trying to do more of that. I went to Holly Hawk House for the first time, the Frank Lloyd Wright in Barnesdale Art Park. That was amazing. Finally went to the Eames House. You know, just I've been trying to go and actually the Gamble House in Pasadena. All those things are like on a list. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll go one day. So. Well, it's about a hundred steps better because twice in that last list, I went, uh-huh, uh-huh. Never. No. No? I'll go with you guys.

If you want to go, I'll come with you. Make a tour for us. Great. Yeah. I was a teen docent. That was another thing. Did they try and get you to be a docent at the museum where you're a kid? No.

No. I was relegated to polishing the glass tops, getting rid of the fingerprints. Tell me about community. Yes. I mean, that's the job that changed my life. It was a very close friend, one of the producers. Yes. I talked to Joel McHale just recently.

But that looked like, oh, a family. Yeah. You had your, sorry, cheers. You had your... We could only wish to be cheer. No, but it was seven. How many years? Six seasons.

Six seasons. Yeah. That's a family. Yeah. Did you go shoot at Paramount? Yeah. So did we. The best studio.

The best. I love it so much. I hope it's still. I know. It's lovable. But when you talk about your love for this business and driving through the Paramount Gates was like, this is Hollywood. This is what I thought Hollywood is.

You know, and then I realized, well, I saw this in Sunset Boulevard. I saw these gates in these movies or, you know, without knowing really where that was or, you know, any of the context for it. Yeah, that was the show that changed my life and my career, full stop. It's before and after for me. And so that I was still living in New York. getting that. Okay. I was shooting one of my no-budget indie movies in the literal woods of New York State with no Wi-Fi reception, and it was pilot season. It was an amazing cast of actors in this movie, like Melanie Linsky, who I think is just one of the most extraordinary actresses. So we're all putting

each other on tape, but it would take like eight hours for a video to upload, and then it would fail right at the last minute, and we're all just pulling her hair out of like, we've missed pilot season. This movie is paying us $5. I have no money. And I just thought, I don't care if there's one audition left. As soon as this movie wraps, I'm going to L.A. for the last final drags of pilot season. And when I was shooting this movie, a friend had called me and said, I just went in for this pilot. Like, this part is you. This is like, this is your part. And I was like, well, I'm in the woods. I don't know what to tell you. I couldn't be farther away from Hollywood. So I got out here.

And I guess they were having a really hard time casting this part that I got on Community Britta because they were still seeing people. And I read the script. It actually made me laugh out loud, which I don't know. That's a high bar. Very high bar. And I was like, this is actually good. I went in. Somehow my nerves didn't sabotage me that day.

Who did you read with? I read with the first time I went in. I think I read with the Russo brothers. I think I read with Joe Russo, I think. It's getting foggy. But they're definitely the ones who, like, you know, they directed the pilot. They cast us. I think they, you know, they discovered Donald Glover from, like, internet.

I think, like, YouTube, you know, shorts. Like, I, you know, a lot of the casting of the show is their eye. And I got a network, you know, studio network test. day where you'd go in, I don't know if you've told this story before and bore the listeners, but like, you know, you would go in for the studio. Then they would call the list and you kind of wait in your car to get the call from your agent if you made it onto the network round. And, you know, you'd go.

The same day? Same day sometimes. And you'd go back in. Yeah. And so, like, I made it to that next round of the network. And then they were like, oh, this is actually going to be better nerves wise because nerves wise, because all the NBC executives are in New York. were not doing the normal in-person test, Joe, Russo, Anthony, and are going to direct you and you're going to read with Joel.

He'd already been cast. And I was like, this is so much better because I get so scared doing those in-person network tests. So we put it on tape, not hearing anything. Every time the phone rings, my heart is pounding out of my chest, not hearing anything, not hearing anything. For how long? Like a week. And you're like, oh, I didn't get it. It's gone.

And then they said the network feels like they can't cast it from these tapes. they want to see people in person, but they've narrowed it down to you and somebody else, and you're each going to go in and read with Joel in person. And then the great news is you're going to find out immediately because they have a table read that day. So you're going to like do this in the morning and you're going to find out you got her, you didn't drive straight to this table read. So I go in, read with Joel, and then I'm waiting because it was from, you had to get from, where were we? NBC Universal all the way to Sony, which is a drive for the listeners.

And I'm not hearing anything. And I'm not hearing anything. And then they called me and they said, we have 90% good news. And I was like, how in a yes or no can there be percentages? The other actor is great. Yeah. 10% bad. Yes. So they said, you're the only one in the running, but they haven't offered you the part, but they still want you to go to the table read. but if you're going to make it, you have to, like, leave right now, you know, and get their best. That's messed up. Yeah, so I had to race down to Sony, not knowing if I had this part. I come in, all the other actors, they've gotten the job.

So this is like the celebratory, you know, so I'm meeting a vet who's just been cast, and Danny Pouty and Joel, and they're all gleeful. The smiles of someone with a job, you know, and all the, you know, executives or, or, producers are you playing bread? I was like, maybe, I don't know. I hope so. Maybe, maybe. And then, um, that sucks. So then, uh, one of the producers, uh, is going to, you know, the welcome, welcome everybody.

We're going to read it. And this is, you know, Joel McHale and he's playing Jeff. And this is Danny Pudy and this is Yvette. And the newest member of our cast, Gillian Jacobs. And so I had gotten the job and the drive down and no one told me. Oh, ho. So they announced it. to me in front of the whole room.

Did you break into tears? I started bawling crying. Yes. So I just started bawling crying and then had to like read the network. I mean, read the script then with the cast. So that's how I found out. That's one of the best stories I've ever heard. Oh, wow.

Yeah. It was crazy. And I don't know if you've ever had this feeling, but I had this feeling. I knew the show was special because it was the only pilot I did that got better as they got the notes. Because I'd done a couple where I was like, this is good, this is funny. But by the time the studio and the network had given their notes and the producers had weighed in, it became this kind of like watered down, bland version of what had been an interesting, unique idea.

And this was, I think, the first time I thought it's getting better. It's getting funnier. It's getting sharper. That is. When you get rewrites that are better, you go, ah, that's great. Yeah. Because that doesn't always happen. No. And that was my first experience of that. And so, and that and then when I sort of was seated at a table, not on like this, and really discovering that cast of how talented they all were. And that was also like, this is special. Like, you know, they've, they've, they've, put together a group of people.

And we have great material, and these people can all, like, elevate it even higher than the great writing. I can't remember. Was that one camera? It was, I mean, it was a single camera show. Yeah. You'd use. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Insane days. The funny is easier to come to in a three camera where you rehearse and then give run through to the writers. Yeah. You get to do that three or four days. So you've really kind of gotten better and better, hopefully. Yeah.

Better and better and better. And so what did you do? You'd have one read through a week of the new script? No, we would do a table read, but then it would sometimes be almost completely thrown out and rewritten from that table read. So it wasn't like you could take that script and go home and start learning. your lines or, you know, doing scene work or whatever. It was like, it got to the point where I was like, I'm just going to learn it in the trailer

in the morning because it's being rewritten that often. And did you have writers on the set? So if something wasn't working, because a lot of times it's funny on the page, but then if you stand up, it ain't quite as funny. We did not really have it in that way because it felt like once they were, once it was like the script that had been approved by the writers, that's what we shot, pretty much. But I think the thing that helped me with what you're talking about, like, how do you know if it's working or not when you don't have the audience,

was that the cast, everyone was very generous with each other. It was a very supportive cast where it'd be like, that was so funny. That is great. Delighted in each other's performances. Like, we'll still in our group text, like, talk about things people did in scenes. You know, it's like... I love that you still have a group show. Yes.

That's great. Yeah, and so I think that's what helped me, because I felt like I didn't have the comedy background that most of the cast did. You're very funny, Annette. Oh, thank you. Very funny. It's fun to have the dumb joke. Oh, yeah. Dumb jokes are the best way to go.

Oh, yes. I remember one of the lines that will be forever burned in my brain is, if loving worms is stupid, I don't want to be smart. I mean, like, you know, what a gift that character was. True. Yeah. The cast, I think, taught me a lot about comedy. And then we also, I think, delighted in each other's performances in a way where you didn't feel that kind of like, sometimes you can do a take and you feel kind of embarrassed at the end. Like, did I just, was that anything?

Was that bad? Was that good? Now I feel awkward. But it was never like that on the show. That's so cool. And that, I think that. that helped me so much. What was the next big thing you did after that?

I went straight from that into a show called Love that was on Netflix. Yeah, it's also great. Yeah, and that was very different, but also a great character, a great show. And that kind of helped soothe my first job ending because I associated everything that was stable about this profession with community. It was the first time I'd ever had that. And so I think I had, and we were always being threatened with cancellation, you know, many times this season. Yeah.

And so I think so much fear around that. But then to go kind of from that and to love, I think really helped me sort of ease through it. At Shears, it was our first show for many of us. And it was like 11 years. And so, oh, this is what happens when you do TV. Yeah. And then you step out back into the real world. And it's like, oh-oh, not necessarily.

And also your first job being one of the most iconic television shows of all time. I mean, how to, at what point did you all realize this isn't just popular? And it's not just like we think it's good. This is a great show. Well, we had, we had, we were supported by the, everyone is very supportive. Studio network writers, you're doing great. You're doing great. We were dead last one of the weeks.

There were only three, basically, maybe four channels. But, yeah, we were, we didn't have an audience for the longest time. We were a big old critical success, which I think kept us on the air. And then we got, we worked our way back up to the, you know, maybe the top 20. But it was Bill Cosby, the Cosby show that came along Thursday night and Thursday. suck the whole lineup behind them into the top 10. It was such a

juggernaut. And then we went up on her own. But yeah, it can be misleading early successes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think our lack of rate is success also

kind of made the show more interesting too because there was also this kind of meta-commentary of the characters were underdogs. And we were the underdog on the network. And we were kind of like the show that they, we weren't getting network support. You know, we weren't even really getting critical acclaim. I mean, there were critics.

There were TV writers who, I think, kept the show alive by writing about it and interviewing us. But it was not like, we weren't, you know, plastered on the cover of like entertainment weekly. We weren't a thing. But I think it made the show more interesting because we were. You were talked about, I mean, that's why it was talked about a lot, at least within our community. Yes, but in terms of just like... Sure.

You know, it was... Job security was one. Yes. Oh, yeah. We would just be waiting for the ratings to come out every week. And I remember if it was a bubble 1.3, the writer's room would get donuts. They had ratings donuts. I remember that.

And now you'd kill for a 1.3. I don't know if it gets anything... What anything gets anymore. But at that point, we felt like, oh, my God, we're just... barely hanging on here. What was fame like? Were you stepping out? I mean, people recognized you.

But not in an overwhelming way. Gracious. Yeah, like, you know, nothing. I have not had an experience of that kind of fame. I've seen that happen to people I know. You know, you work with people who have that level of fame. And it seems quite overwhelming to me. it's a whole other thing.

I always had like one step at a time. I never got shot out of a planet, which was good. Yes. I don't think I could have done it graciously or well or whatever. It's destabilizing, I think. You were awfully good in girls. Thank you. Yeah.

Ted. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, yeah, you were. Thank you. She's a remarkable. Yeah. Lena is.

Yeah, Lena is incredible. Yeah. I, um, one of my, you know, first friends in the industry, uh, produced her first movie, tiny furniture. Oh, wow. So I met, um, Alicia Vancouver and produced that movie. And so I had been hearing, you know, oh, yeah, we just did this tiny, you know, movie and we shot it in her parents' apartment.

And it was like such a small crew. I'm the producer, but I'm like cleaning up the trash at the end of the night, you know, like really scrappy. Um, and then it, then it, I saw it. I'm like, this is that movie. This is amazing, and I got to meet Lena at an early screening for it. And I'm in awe of her talent. And I also feel like there's been a big sort of rewatch of girls.

I think a lot of people are watching it again or seeing it for the first time. And I think she's an amazing actress. And I think that people are kind of seeing that as they're rewatching it or new people are discovering it. I think Lena is such a talented actress. and I loved being in scenes with her and Adam Driver. Like it was like the tension of that, you know, those characters, that triangle. And it was, it was really a fun job.

I got to live in New York for the summer. You know, like. Working in New York. If you've come up in New York, knocking on doors, walking the streets. Coming back with a job. The best. The best. They put me up in a hotel.

I got to live in a part of it. town I never could have afforded to live in before. I mean, they shot really easy days on that show. I had like a whole summer in New York. Where did you shoot? Where'd you shoot? I don't even remember. I remember being in Brooklyn a lot. I remember shooting mere blocks from my last apartment. I was like, oh my God. Yeah, we shot a lot in Brooklyn for my character, that kind of arc. Yes, it's coming back to me. I think it was all in Brooklyn, but I could be wrong. And the bear. Yes.

The wedding. Mm-hmm. That was amazing. Yeah. I mean, that had to be... You must have rehearsed that. No. What?

Mm-mm. It was like, you know, I don't know, jazz, percussion, something. It was so fast and... And we'd do about two, maybe three takes. Oh, my God. Two... Two camera setups. maybe three.

I mean, when we're, you know, there's a scene where it's like almost the entire cash of the show is underneath this table. Yeah. And we ripped through that scene. I mean, on other, you know, other jobs I've worked, that would have been, that would have been an eight-hour scene and we ran it very few times. You need to bring your A game. If you're all sitting around playing that fast and furious.

And I, you know, had guest starred on the second season. And so when new guest stars would come, I would take it upon myself to tell them, like, you're only going to get two takes. Like, just be prepared. Like, this one goes fast. And I know sometimes you come on a set and they're like, don't worry, you're going to have a great week. We should really have. No, this one's fast.

Like, just get ready and it's fun. And you'll feel the energy of it. And you'll, you know, there's an electricity to it when you're doing it because you're only going to get two takes, maybe three. And people, I think, really, you know, loved that environment. But yeah, it was for as massive of, I was in two episodes that had just had massive cast and it was still just like so fast. It's over. And then you're driving home going, oh, I should have, oh, I should have.

Oh, did I? Was it? But then you just kind of surrender to that's the show. It's like your first thought, first thought, best thought, your impulse. Like, you know, and then these kind of magical moments would happen like at the end of that wedding episode. It was not, we all start dancing. It's my wedding reception and we're on the dance floor. And it was not in the script that Eben Moss, Bach,

come over and dances with me. This is so pathetic even now I could start crying. But it was truly unexpected. I did not know that. He came over and tapped me on the shoulder. I just looked him in the eyes. And I just had one of those pure acting moments where I just like, the tears welled up.

And we were, there was so much unsaid between the two of us. us, you know, because we'd played these characters for a couple of years. And it was what I want that like unforced flow state as opposed to my like thinking and my planning and my, you know, that was all just faded away. And I was just there in the moment for that three seconds. Those are the highest of the high. That is the mountaintop. No. And for film, you're either present in that moment being surprised yourself or not. Yeah. And I know when I watch it that I'm not.

I know. I know I'm not in the moment. Even if people are being very nice. I know. I know. I'm not hard to watch. Yeah. I mean, it's impossible.

Very few actors do I know who are always that president, but there are. Have you worked with Melanie? I don't think I have. Oh, she's sublime. She can't, she doesn't have a false moment. it is just truth. Like when you're looking at her, you know, it's just truth and it makes me feel like a fraud. And I just want to...

I'm a 50-50. It's 50. I'm giving myself credit to say I'm a 50-50 actor. 50% chance I'll show up in the moment. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I got no guarantees on that. No.

Who's your moral center? Where is your, you know? Oh, I'm lost. Who do I look to or who do I remember or what is that for you? Well, I mean big life stuff, not acting stuff. Yeah, yeah. I have assembled a kind of panel of people. I, you know, my mom is not well.

So I can't really have her be that person for me. But I've accumulated women roughly my mother's age over my adulthood that I've, you know, coined my bonus moms. And so Pat and Joan, they're the ones that I would say that I... Are they of an age? So that... Yeah, they're roughly right around my mother's age. Right. Yeah. How old's your mom? My mom is 81. Well done, mom. Well done. Yeah. It's hard. I'm sorry. Careful. I'm the Barbara Walters of podcast. I try to make people cry. So I'm sorry. No, no.

Please forgive me. Yeah. Yeah, Joan, I met when I was 17 doing a play. And she was an actress, you know, from New York who had come to Pittsburgh to do this play. And she always talks about how I just followed her back to her actor's apartment, you know, on our dinner break in between, you know, rehearsals. And I, she was, what is this kid doing following me back to my apartment? And I, there's just, you know, sometimes you just like you. And it wasn't, you know, I didn't really know anything about anything.

But I latched onto her, and she lives on the Upper West Side, and Juilliard is in Lincoln Center, which is on the Upper West Side. So not long after we did this play together, I moved to New York. And she became the couch that I cried on and, you know, the wise counsel I saw it. And so she's been in my life since then, and I met Pat through her. So those two are, yes, I go to them. Hey, I've really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for being so present and fun. I have a lot of respect for you just talking to you. Oh, wow. You really got your headlights on. You're inspiring. Thank you.

Much love. Thank you. And to you as well. Yeah. That was fun. Thank you, Gillian. The musical, the film, is in theaters now. And that's it for this week.

Special thanks to Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to a loved one. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app and maybe give us a great rating and review on Apple Podcasts. All of our full-length episodes are on YouTube. Visit YouTube.com slash Team Coco. See you next time, where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name

with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by... me, Nick Leow, our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer, engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grail. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Jane Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergin, and John Osborne.