Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - Jake Johnson

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Actor and writer Jake Johnson talks to his friend Ted Danson about how he got to star in the pickleball comedy “The Dink” alongside Mary Steenburgen, playing complicated characters, his Cheers fandom, Ted’s early days in LA, and much more.    “The Dink” comes to Apple TV on Friday, July 24th.   Like watching your podcasts?  Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I'm not jealous of your relationship with my wife. Let me make that perfectly clear. Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. I love today's guest. Actor and writer Jake Johnson. He is funny in a way that seems effortless. You know him from the new girl, drunk history, the mummy, and so much more. Right now you can watch Jake in the Apple TV series Maximum Pleasure Guarantees.

He also stars alongside my wife Mary in the movie The Dink, which comes out this week on Apple TV. So let's get to it. Jake Johnson, who I respect so much. Let me tell you how my morning started. As I go out, well, not started, but as I'm leaving for work this, Mary, I say, do you have anything I should ask? Jake because you guys did the dink together and all of that and she said

Ted he's very special he's the most special person I've ever met one of he said one of the most special people I've ever met and she meant it so live up to that

I love Mary okay miss this special I'm gonna let you down now No, you're not. I love Mary. We met at a party. I think we met at the Dink rap party. I think that was us meeting.

You had first, I'd first seen you. That's true. At like a tennis court, whatever. You came to see Mary. It was the end of the film shot. It was like very chaotic. Yes. Well, the first one was a, I say this to you because I told you this in person, but you are a North Star for me.

So, cheers for me was everything. It was. It's, you were kidlike at that point, right? I mean, you were. I was born in 78, so that was kind of wheelhouse for me. Yeah, it was my whole family watched. Thursday night meant something. That show connected us all.

That was the first time I ever watched something where before I understood what actors were, I was like, I just want to be at that bar. Before I knew, like, I wanted to be one of the characters. Yeah. I wanted to be in cheers. I wanted to know you. I wanted to know the group. And I was like, I loved hanging out.

And I realized what television is where it's a fantasy where you get to be like, you get to leave your world and be in another. Yeah, it is. It is. And you're like, oh, I got to go to cheers with you guys. And I was like, once a week, whatever was happening in my world faded. And I could just be like, well, you guys. And I knew how you would all act.

you guys were all so pitch perfect. So nobody ever took me out. There was never a joke that I'm like, it's a good joke, but it doesn't exist here. Yeah. It was like, no, everybody was right. Well, play back on that. That joke doesn't, later on when we talk about acting and stuff.

Yeah. Because that is, that just irritates the shit out of me. It kills me. And I think I heard you talking to somebody, probably Dax, where if you come across a bad joke in a sense, script that you're reading to see whether you want to do it. It's almost like, I have to pass. Yeah. Because you're going to now want me to do something that I fundamentally disagree with and I don't want to fight with you. Yeah. But this isn't right. Because the whole thing

that I think the game is and what you do so well. And I'm not a guy who kisses a lot of ass, but I am going to kiss your ass a lot, Ted, because you mean a lot to me. It's a good ass to kiss. I love it. But tonally, you don't sway. So some comedic actors are really pushing and you could feel the, you can feel the sweatiness of them, and I love them for it. Like a Chris Farley, I'm like, you're working so hard for me and I love it so much. You all of a sudden, wherever you come in, it becomes a real person. So I don't see you as Sam Malone. I see you as Ted Danson, but I also love Sam Malone.

And I don't have that with a lot of actors where you're like, the character you, and what I wanted to, to do with Nick Miller was when the character on New Girl is I wanted people to view him the way I viewed Ted Dan, Sam Malon, that is, Sam Malone was a relief pitcher from the Boston Red So he's a real guy. And when a beautiful woman walks in, I know how Sam's going to react. Yeah. And I know how it's going to annoy you everybody. And then I know he's going to like do a beer thing and push it there. And it's going to work.

And then he's going to blow it. But I'm like, I just knew him as a real person. and that's the, when I say the North Star, that's the kind of acting that I love, where I get to go, I'm kind of watching a weird documentary about a bar, I think. Okay, my turn. Okay, sorry.

No, no, my turn then will get written more real or something. But my entree to you as an actor, forgive me, because I know you had a lot of stuff before this, but was New Girl. Yeah. And it came about this way. Everyone was telling me you should watch New Girl. It's amazing.

And I don't remember what I was doing, but I was either struggling or I didn't want to watch anything that everyone was saying so good. I did this to my friend John Krasinski in the office, too. I didn't watch it until much later. I didn't want to watch you. And it was you. I didn't want to watch. Is this true? Yes, it's promise you, promise you.

And it was like, no, I can't because then I'll compare myself or fear of whatever. Yeah, yeah, that thing. You're so, I hear how good you are. Then I watched later, Let's Play Cops. You fucking knocked me out of, you know, you were so good. And I went back and watched New Girls. So I binged you about five years ago after watching, let's be cop, let's play Cops. Be Cops.

You're my favorite kind of actor because you are funny. Yes, funny. Absolutely make me loud. You're dangerous because you could also rip my fucking head off is what I feel from you when you act. And I told you this when we met that you're my favorite kind of leading man. You really are. You're dangerous. And you're dangerous when you're not in a character being funny because I know you could be funny at any second. So there's this tension. Just holding it in. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. Compliment back. Yeah, amazing. Well, Well, you know, in New Girl, and we talked, so Liz Maryweather, the creator that also loves Cheers.

And Zoe, Liz and I would talk all the time about the Sam and Diane and then the Sam and Rebecca. Yeah. And how the big magic trick of that show for me was how you did it twice. Because- The writers, I know, unbelievable. Well, yes, but I also, I mean, I know how the sausage is made, too. So I do know, yes, you need great writers. And one thing I learned from directing a movie when I did my own writing and directing is I realize how much I love writing it, writers and directors.

Yeah. Because you're like, because it's hard. And you guys are so good. And the good ones are so good. But the magic trick that I give you credit for and that I honestly watch you for is that everybody thinks chemistry is just almost like luck. It's like a sports team where you're like, well, they just got the right group. Yeah. And then you realize certain people, whatever team they go to wins and has that chemistry.

And you go, right, so there's something. So you could say you and Shelley Long just were magic. But then it was also the case with you and Christy Allen because that was magic. And you go like, oh, there was something about the writing, the vibe, the set, you, that it said like, we can plug and play here in a way that's fascinated. And that to me is the secret sauce where I go, like, whatever, I heard this thing about John Blushy and Dan Aykroyd about, they would always say, like, what's the glue that connects to people? Like, what is that? When there's, like, a great team. And I think there was something about what you do that I've always loved of like, oh, he's half the glue. And I was like, whatever that magic trick is, I want in on that, you know, Gosling just did it because Gosling has that in spades. But he just did it in the new movie Project Helmery with a literal... I haven't seen it yet, but I hear it's like, yeah.

But he did it with a literal rock where you're like, fucking guy's got chemistry with a rock. And it's genuine. Yeah. He's talking to nothing. He's talking to a rock. And midway through the movie, I'm like,

I believe they're very dear friends. I'm in. And that to me is not the goal of some actors. Some actors, I'm like, their goal is just like to really pop or to do this thing. The chemistry game is a game that I think you're a master of, and that's my favorite game. Thanks.

Me too. I used to think that a really good joke is something that I, written joke, is something that I can approach and not water it down, but distill it like a homeopathic medicine so that it's almost not a joke anymore. And if you can do that to a joke and it's still funny, that it's good writing. That's good writing. So Max Greenfield, a new girl, used to say to me in terms of that. Because whenever there's a perfectly written joke, for some reason I'm adding words to it.

And they're the wrong words. And he would go like, you really can't deliver a joke. He's like, you just, he's like, you'll have a written great joke. You'll find laughs around it. But he'll be like, just say the joke. And I'm like, I don't know why I'm butchering it. Other actors can go. I can't hit it that way.

You're not featuring it. You're making it your own and you're saying this ain't a joke. Right. Because I don't think people think in life that they're delivering jokes. Yeah. And if they are, they're real boring to be around. Or unthinkably funny. Yes.

Yeah. Because there are certain people where you go like, that's a joke, that's the best joke I've ever. Didn't you said that at a restaurant? You know, ensemble for me, is where it's at. Same. Because of basketball, I thought I could play. Yeah.

And I couldn't. When I got to college, it was not even, I'm so sad. And then I did a teeny part in a play by mistake kind of thing. And I heard laughing. It's like, oh. Oh, same. Oh, wow. It's not basketball.

Yes. But there's something here. Yeah. But basketball trained me to go, the team is the thing, which is the play is the thing. You know, it's not about you. it's about you supporting the team play. So I love that. I have often wondered that, you know,

these are all the wrong words. It'll sound very lame, but I wonder why it wasn't Tom Cruise, by choice or no? By the world saying no, so that I'm very happy where I am because I couldn't be anywhere else, you know, kind of feeling.

But I really do feel like my level of fame is just the right amount for me. I could not handle more. Neither could I. I'd be sad with less. And I'm glad you said that because that's the other part. I feel exactly the same.

But one thing I want to say about sports because that's exactly the same. So I grew up playing sports. Everything was about the team. Nothing was ever about the individual numbers and it didn't matter. Winning feels like something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And being on a team when the team is jelling, when you're on an ensemble and it's working, and all of a sudden the fifth lead who's new is crushing, it's like, oh, now we have a chance. Because you're only as good as your weakest player on the bench. But when you start going and everybody's cooking, I don't have the thing of this is my showcase I've got to go. I view it more like when I read, you know, like Salinger for the first time.

And you're like, oh, all these characters keep coming back. So I don't view a career as like, this is my one movie, this is my showcase. And the whole end, this is a novel. I'm just on chapter 17. So all these different people who come in and are in different ensembles,

we're all building this whole novel together. And if you don't score and we're doing a thing together, then we lose. Yeah. And when you're scoring, I'm scoring. Yeah. And then the real joy is when somebody wants you to score in a scene and you can feel it.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, we have so much. trust that you're now setting me up. Yeah. And you're putting me in my wheelhouse. Yeah. And I'm kind of tired. And you're passing to me on a fast break.

Yeah. And you're like, thanks, man. And that's when like the love and when it becomes really joyful. Yeah. Of we're playing the same game. The crew's in it. Like my favorite is, you know, and we had it on the dink. We made up this game with the crew where we were naming people from who they were if the

cast of who's the boss. boss represented a type of worker. It was ridiculous. But we know we laminated cards and we would hand people what they were doing. And there was a day. So if you were, if you were Angela, you're the real boss. If you're Tony, you think you're the boss, but you're not the boss. You know, you're the nanny.

You're not the boss. If you're Mona, you're sexy. You're adding heat to the day. But you're not really doing much. If you're Danny, who's the actor's name. You're doing so little on set we don't even know your character's name. And if you're a little of Liz and Milano,

you know, you're great. You're going to have a nice career, but you're not ready yet. And everybody would get a card, right? And so a lot of times it would be for like the AD. Yeah. If, like, there was a dance sequence where Mary and I dance in the dink

and they're running everything, you go like, real Angela moment. You know, real Angela stuff. And those who are playing the game with us and the crew would go like, that means the world to me. Right? Or you'd go like, pretty good stuff, man. A little bit Mona right now, but let's get to Angela. Or if the AD goes like, everybody, let's go line up. But no one's listening. You go like, thanks, Tony. And the reason I say all that is we did that endlessly. And it was this one AC and I, this guy, Andrew, we were having so many laughs privately. And then there was a day where I had a big monologue. And I just imagined it in my head. And I had done my homework. But when we got there, because of, I had a big monologue. And when we got there, because of,

light, the director of Josh Greenbaum, who's the greatest, the best, wanted to start really close. Oh. And. As opposed to you being able to work and do it from a master. Yeah. And it's real baby stuff. I've been doing this long enough. I should be fine.

Yeah. But I like, you know, Aaron Chen was in the scene with me. Also very funny, man. One of the funniest. I mean, it makes me laugh so hard. Yeah. And I was like, well, we'll. probably loosen up a little.

And we were here, and I totally got in my head. And as I was saying the words, it was just an out-of-body experience. And if you practice them enough, the words come, but there's nothing to it. And I finished and I did take it to him. Josh is being great. He's like, awesome and really good. We're getting it. Let's just go again. Yeah.

We're getting it. It's not a good. No. He's giving me all the words saying, you're at a B-minus. And this is the coverage I want. So really good. Let's just go again. Yeah? Do you need anything? And I'm like, I don't think so.

But I know I'm dying, you know. And it's a nightmare. And I'm like, I'm not feeling, I'm not feeling it. And I'm thinking, worst case scenario, we go, we do this, then we go to the wide, and then I ask him to come back. And the guy, Andrew Hyde, created, walked up to me and gave me a Danny card. Oh, nice. And he got, Danny was, you so bad, we don't even remember your character.

And he goes like, I've just watched you for a while. And you're doing really bad stuff, man. And I started laughing in a way. And I was like, and he was like, look. look, he's like, it's fine. He's like, but, you know, just a real Danny performance so far. He's like, you're here, but you're not even here. God, Mary never told me this stuff.

This is brilliant. And I started laughing in a way that it loosened me up. And then in the next take, as I was going, I was thinking as soon as this takes over, I'm going to say, and I was like, it's a dandy, but midway through, I'm like, I'm becoming Alyssa Milano. And then all of a sudden I'm like, I'm getting a little Mona. This is second half of this is sexy. And then I was like, I'm not at Angela, but at the end, I'm like, that was a Tony take.

And you would hear like, that was a Tony man. That was a Tony man. I'm like, I'm pretending to be the boss, but I'm not. Before I knew it, I'm just in the groove of the day. All of that anxiety is gone. The fun of said is back. And that is why the ensemble means so much because you're like, right, we're all in this together. And when it's working, it becomes such joy. And you can't do that kind of stuff unless you, everyone there is really good.

Yes. And it gets the joke in life. A hundred percent right. And then you're free to do that. And not sensitive to each other. You have to be able to get the Danny card. And in that moment, go like, it hurts because it's true. This is why Mary and I have been married happily, joyfully, for so long.

When Mary mocks me for good reason, it's funny. And if you can laugh at yourself, it's like, especially as you age. Yes. You know what Mary says about you that? I just told my wife and she said she's going to start doing because we're currently looking for a new house and we're switching against a whole thing. Looking for a basement, I hear. Yeah, I would love a basement. I mean, I'm from the Midwest.

But we were talking about a house you guys had or something you were doing and she goes, well, I was very excited. And then, you know, we spent Ted Danson's money. And she said first and last name. My wife goes. She did that? Yes. I've never heard of do that. said, well, you know, we were spending Ted Dances money on that one.

And I go, you refer to him at first and last name? She goes, in this case, yes, I do. I've never heard of her do that. Is that true? Yes, I love that. I love hearing new stuff. I'm not jealous of your relationship with my wife. Let me make that perfectly clear.

I like you, a hugely don't know you as well as I know my wife love her to bits. So it's suspect that I'm, you know, pushing the movie out is this but it is wonderful the movie's wonderful and what's one of the great things about it is you you both have each other's back as actors i watched you it's like and it's it's how do we describe it's a relationship movie yeah which could be an inappropriate relationship and because of the writing of the story, it is brilliant the way I went off on a tangent here, but it's like you guys are really, really, really good together. Thank you.

You can see people liking each other on film. Totally. You can see people acting like they like people on film. Yeah, totally. But you guys really liked each other on film actively, which is cool. It was the thing you said when we just met out there about. acting opposite somebody when you're an attractive person

you can just look at them. But what was the beauty of working with Mary is I've been a fan of her for so long. So it's like I've known Mary's work from stepbrothers to parenthood. I'm like, I've just seen enough that were like those like big movies for me. And then her reputation goes in front of her.

But what I found about Mary, when we were doing the Apple Press, what I'm doing with the press with her was talking about how mean she is. Because my issue is, with somebody like her who's truly a kind part. Like, she, her tone ran that set. Sean, Josh, and I all talked about it.

But she just comes in. And even though she's got her own anxiety, she doesn't throw it on others. And everybody just gets when she was there in like the Mary vibe. Like everybody's nice. It's true. Even like a grumpy grip and I, when we walk by each other,

he'd be like, hi. And I'd be like, hey. And I'm like, why are we doing this? Mary's not here. You have a neck tattoo, brother. all you and I have to do is do the head nod, but there is like a sweetness that comes. But what I realized in working with her

is she's very good and she's very competitive and she cares a lot. Very competitive. Very competitive. And competitive about the work in a way that going back to sports, I care about. I'm very competitive. Yeah. I want our team to win.

Yeah. I want the scene to be great. I want to finish a take and I like to do scenes from beginning to end. I don't like pickups. I want the crew to feel like they watch the play. I want everybody there to experience what we're trying to do. Then in post, you can do what you want.

But it's our job to do the thing so that the director is watching and goes like, yeah, pretty good. And what I liked about Mary is she's fierce with that and she's really good, but her niceness and her kindness is let out with. And I think niceness and kindness is fine. Goes a long way.

But yeah, but it is, but it doesn't win championships. The talent wins championships. And I think something has gotten reversed where it's like everybody talks about now, like the no assholes on set thing, which I think that's great. I'm like, nobody wants an asshole on set. But we need talented nice people. Yeah. So it's not just nice people.

And what I like about Mary, which was the great realization is how talented she is. So I want to push and press that she's a gnarly, nasty, mean person. So you can just watch her work and go like... Noddy. She's a naughty, filthy mouth. And that's all attitude. Mean. Yeah.

Mean. A bully. She, you know, you have to be one to no one. I remember because my thing is I was raised to be basically Christ-like. You were. And that sounds like I'm making, yes, me. Really religious family. My mother went to church a lot, yes.

Yes. But it wasn't like a religious family, but, I was raised to be sensitive and kind by my mother. There was no below the line. I didn't learn how to be a shit and petty that I was, you know, but I could never be that. So even today, a knee-jerk reaction is, you know, she'll say, you know, Jake's really an asshole. And I will say, well, you know, he's not really an asshole. He's, you know, I always always spin it.

And she gets so pissed at me. Yeah. And one time I was being mean to her. her and she said, you are as mean as a junkyard dog. And at first I started to argue and then it was like, I am. Oh, I am. It was such a relief to realize, no, Ted, you're a dick, you're mean, you're petty. Yes. You know what? My wife was just saying yesterday, we were talking and I realized and I'm trying to figure out why I hate it so much, but empty words of gratitude or empty.

words of validation or, you know, anything like, you know, we went to a screening of this pilot and when people are all complimenting the thing, but it doesn't feel 100% sincere. I tune off in a way. It's too extreme. And my wife goes, you hate insincerity. And she's like to a point where it's like, it's too much. But I think there's something, because I was raised differently in that I was raised by a single mom and it was.

there's no above line below line and if there was one we're below line so if you're going to think you're better than anybody look at who you are but it was also but now get out there and do what you got to do to win and so there is the both things and there was no time to kind of bullshit along the way because it always felt like there was this big pressure and there wasn't a lot of time and it was nearly impossible to win and so as i get older and i realize like that pace isn't reality. I see, I admire that. Everything you just said, I know to be so. It's not my go-to. I almost have to exhaust myself or be angry or full of hopelessness or have had a big huge cry over something to get so grounded that, yeah, I'm okay with everything I am. Yeah, totally. And I want more of that.

And I want more of that in my acting. I'm about to, let's, can we make this about me more? than it already is. I'm about to go start acting for the first time in nine months. Scary. Scary. And it's not the same part that I was doing with Mike Shore,

a man on the inside, which will come back. But I'm doing something brand new. With new people? New people. Terrified. New everything. And I don't know that I know how to be a good actor.

And, you know, I want my character to have said in the description, he has a massive scar down his forehead and eye patch. And he talks with a sluror. Got it. I can act that. So I'm just terrified about this. But then I read something that you, you know, working on you today, you said something about,

I realized that I want my character. I have to like enough of my character. You can do bad things and this and that. But I have to like my character enough that people would be, if I don't, How can people want to spend a hour and a half with me if I'm totally unlikable kind of thing? Or at least like so. One thing about me that is somewhat different than this era is I can like people that I totally disagree with. And I can like people that do bad things.

Yeah. And it is a product of my childhood. It is the product of being around people who I knew had done bad things. But they were really kind to me. and it was really fun doing jokes with them. And then I would hear a story and be like, that's a bad dude. Yeah.

That's a scary guy. Yeah. But I do love them. And so when I'm playing a character, I don't think they need to be necessarily on the good team of life. And they don't have to be above board and always winning. But I need to know how if me and that person were having a meal where I would go like, you're not a total monster.

You're definitely in the gray. Yeah. But like, there are certain things that people could do that I could never forgive you for. It also has to do that you need to understand how they got there. How they there, without judgment. Exactly right.

And there are certain offenses on certain crimes that for me, I could never play because I can't get there. Yeah. You know, I understand hurt people, hurt people, but you're hurting too many people. So now I don't want to, I get it, some actors want it, I can't spiritually go there, I don't want it.

But if I can go, you did steal that, and that is true. And you did do that, and this is, I don't know, and then I go, but if I listen to your whole arc and your childhood and you're this and you're that, I get you. And if it's between you and me and we're having a drink, in my own heart, I go like, I get love for you. Yeah.

And if I can do that, then I can find my way into something. That's what's so fucked up about today. Yeah. You know, you, it's just so divided, but it's an artificial division that comes from the top. Agreed. I know where I want to go next with you is a playwright. I don't even know all the movies that you've written and then directed or produced and created and all of that. But you, I saw the origins of that was you wrote a play at the University of Iowa that got you into Tisch. School for the Arts in New York. How the fuck did you know you could write a play?

What made you say, oh, this is something, was there a lead-up to that? Yeah. I didn't know. So when I was 15, I dropped out of high school for a year. Right. I was getting really, I mean, it's dyslexia. But back then, we didn't have a name for it. We didn't know what it was, but it was, I was just doing really badly.

And during that time, it was October of my sophomore year, I was just home. and my uncle Eddie was having legal troubles he was living with us so there was a lot going on and my mom having fear that I was going to you know not fulfill a destiny that I probably at least go back to high school pal

started saying like you need to do certain things and one of the things she had said I had to do was I had to write and so we had an old computer and I could write anything I wanted so I basically just wrote while you're not in school and working at your uncles, you had to do this. I had to do homework. So I wrote, basically copied the book,

Bridge to Terabithia, but with, like, me and my brother, and I'd be, like, hysterically crying, and then I'd be like, that my brother, Danny has cancer, and it was terrible, right? But I, like, wrote a book that was probably 40 pages. Had a beginning, middle, and a beginning, middle,

and couldn't believe I wrote that much, and then realized what I really liked was the dialogue. Uh-huh. Because it was easier. Yeah. And then for the next thing, she said, you got to write something again. I then wrote a play.

And I was like... Do you remember? It was about... I was obsessed. I've always been obsessed with my brother. So it was about like two brothers. Older brother. Older brother.

Talk to him the whole ride here. Just for my brain. Is he alive and well? Alive and well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, the best. But wrote a play really liked it.

And then my friends and I were all, who I'm still close with, we were all entering the world of the... the arts, but at 15 and what that meant. And my buddy Bill had read like the beatniks. And he was into that. And I was always into TV. And I would always talk about, you know, Cheers or Roseanne or the Wonder Years. And my buddy Oliver was into music. And then I brought the plays in and they felt like little teleplays. And then we started doing more acting together. And then that became my first, like, comedy troupe. And I've been essentially doing comedy troops since then. And now I view each ensemble as a new comedy troupe. So like Mary and Aaron and I, when we were just doing that movie and doing press,

I was like, oh yeah, this comedy troupe. We're like the dink team. And then when we all do press, that's the end of that troupe. Was it that play that you wrote that you sent to New York? No, so then I went to the University of Iowa, and at Iowa I went to be a writer. Oh. And I wanted to write fiction, and University of Iowa has a great writing program for the graduates, and a bunch of novelists and short story writers were there. And they have all these, like, cool little literary. bars and Iowa City is a pretty cool scene and I went there and I really wanted to do that and then there was essentially like a sketch night and so we would write little sketches that were you know five-minute plays you and your buddy bill yeah okay the beatnik bill yeah and we would do them there

and we were getting a lot of attention and then one of my plays so you wrote produced and acted yes I started acting in them too yeah and then one of of those plays got into, I can't remember what it's called now. The Kennedy Center, there was some... Arena or no. They gave some award where they published a bunch of plays. And my thing got published in like a book. Whoa.

Yeah, and I was like, whoa, man. And then I wrote another one and submitted that to NYU, got in. And then I had a play put on by the ensemble studio theater. Yeah. And it was about my sister and my cousin and Ken. kids putting on masks, and when they put the masks on, they become who they're going to be as older people, but they're just kids. And my cousin became a junkie and had a really hard road, but my sister didn't. So when they put the masks on, my sister's like, it's fun. My cousin's

character's like, these are not fun masks. And I put it out, I viewed it as a pretty serious little play, took myself very serious. I was probably wearing a scarf. And the director cast it, and I wasn't part of it. And when I went and saw the show with my then-girlfriend, who's now Annie Baker, the famous director-playwright, we were dating back in the day.

We were watching it together. When it started, I leaned over to her because there was a series of one-ax and I go like, this one sucks. And she gave me a look that I won't forget

where is that kind of sad look. And I was like, I know I'm not being nice, but this one sucks. And when she gave me that look, I like stopped. And then I listened, and it was my play.

But they had changed it so much in performance and music. And it was these adult women talking in baby voices. And I got like emotional and I did like the little Max Fisher. Yeah. And sad. And I said I wanted them to pull my play. And the head of NYU's dramatic writing, Mark Dickerman was like, I need you to grow up right now and say thank you.

And leave. And just say thank you. Yeah. I had to learn that. Yeah, you did. But it was hard, man. It's hard. And I hated it. Yeah.

And I was like, I can't say thank you. They killed it. And he's like, these are professionals and they're doing something that's really special. And you might not like it, but the audience did. So learn to say thank you and leave. And you don't have to come back. And I was like, and I was like, I'll never not be, have more control. And that became, if I'm going to write something, I'm writing it from my friends that

we're going to act in it. And then that took us to like UCB in those places because they would put our own stuff on. So we're like, then call it sketch comedy. I did an Annie Baker one act. Oh, you did? Not one act. It was the 24-hour plays for the Atlantic Theater. Oh, no way. Yeah. And was she there? Yeah, she had to be because they, the bit, you know the bit. You know, you show up actors and writers and directors show up. Fun and do it all in 24 hours. The night before the actors show a prop that they, you know, that they brought and maybe a talent,

and then the actors go home, and the writers stay and write all night, and then the directors come in and the short diversion. Mary's daughter was there, too, and she, for her costume prop thing, she and my daughter, their stepsisters, had the Halloween before, taken a body suit, a really good body suit,

and then my daughter's a really good artist and made an anatomically correct, vivid body suit. And then they were flashers, right, for Halloween. But she brought that, and she said after she said this, just by the way, as she's leaving, to the writers and directors,

this happens to be my mother's nightmare and winked at the writers. And one writer just put her, in this and she had to enter Bucknaked. And it was such wonderful dialogue. Anyway, anyway,

wow, so that's how you, because I heard you talk to somebody about yourself about the fact of relinquishing that energy of having it to, having to be in control and everything. And then you went off and just acted recently, you've just been acting

or something, and how wonderful. that was, just to show up and mind your own business, as it were. That's a new lesson for me. So I was always somebody who... But don't you have to be... Sorry, continue. But don't you have to be the way you're about to describe when you're writing and directing it? Well, you do, you have to be, when you're writing and directing, you've got to be in control.

Yeah. But most of my career has just been hired as an actor. Oh, in control. And being a little bit too much like, how we're shooting this? Yeah. and then another actor is doing something in me think like, they're not helping them. I'm like, you know what we could do?

And you're like, I'm trying to build that team, but at times you're like, it's overstepping. Kristen Bell, I'm not saying she oversteps, but her brain is that way. Yes, I know Chris a little, where it's nonstop. Nonstop. And she's right. Yeah, but it's a lot.

Yeah. And I'm not saying that about her. I'm saying that about me. Yeah. Where you're like, you just can't stop. And so I always said in my fantasy, the dream will be if I can have my own TV show where I'm co-show running,

I'm directing every other, it's my group and we're just doing it. And then when I did self-reliance, which was the movie that I wrote, I directed, and I started, I missed collaborators so much. And it was one of those like, oh, man, I'm so glad I got this lesson now.

Yeah. Because I would be there and I would do a take and the other actors would look at me and I'd be like, you guys are great. Like, the offense is working. Yeah. And I'd be like, shouldn't there not be a coach in the timeout? Yeah.

It goes like, here's what I'm seeing for you. And then shouldn't there be a writer who goes, I think this is working. What do you guys think of this? And go like, oh, you're so talented. That's so smart. So like Dink is an example, Josh would just come up after takes where I'd be like, oh, it's feeling really good. And he'd go, really fun.

Let's try something totally, totally different. Go a little bit more aggressive. Mary, go a little bit. and you'd be like, oh, this isn't how I would see it. And then when you do it, it would open up something new. Or Sean would come in and go like, what do you think of that joke to start it? And I'd be like, oh, you're a professional joke writer.

That's so funny, man. And then in doing that, if you don't tell the other actor, and you're in a two-shot, their response is so funny. Tell me the origin of the dink. I had lunch with Sean. I always pronounce his last name wrong and he gets mad at me, but it's like Roger Clemens with a tea. so Clemens.

Clemens. But I guess I call him Clements, but it's Clemens. And he's my real friend. I did Daxes and he got mad at me. I'm scared. Sean, yes. He and I got lunch and it was right before the presidential elections.

And we were just talking and he goes like, what are you doing next? What are you working on? We were doing that part of our lunch talk. And I said, I'm looking, I think our country's going to get really wild and I don't want to be part of it. I want to make something that's really fun

with big set pieces. It's nice and it's fun. It's funny. And I go, but really good jokes. And I was like a really, like funny story, but like I just want like a good hour and a half. And I was like, I miss a set piece and I missed it about television

where the situation's funny. Where you're like, you can't lose in this situation because you're putting two characters just in a funny spot. And he goes, what do you think about pickleball? And I said nothing. I'd never played.

Couldn't care less about it. Didn't find it to be that interesting of a game. And he goes, what about tennis? And I go, nothing. And he goes, then I got the movie for you. He pitched it to me because he's the real dusty character. He's an old tennis player. He's very good.

His back hurt. Sean. Oh. He went to a pickleball court in Beverly Hills where there was three older women. And they asked if he wanted to play. And he thought like, I don't want to hurt anybody. he's like, I'm probably looking for more people my age, males, where I could really, and they were like, oh, you don't, won't play with us? And he was like, okay, and they smoked him and talked trash the whole time. And he got so competitive that he would say, we started playing all the time. And he's like, they were mean about it. And then we would go out for coffee after and we would like talk about our lives. And he's like, I can't believe on becoming friends with them. And so when he told me that, that's the story. Yeah, I was like, that is so funny. But then, he and I were talking about the dusty candace story that Mary and I do.

And, you know, without giving stuff away, it's building towards something other than. Yeah. And he pitched me the post honky talk scene. And when he pitched me that, and I don't want to give anything away, but when he pitched me that, I was like, I want to do this movie. Yeah. This movie is incredibly funny. It has huge set pieces.

It has a truth out there in the world. Tennis players fucking hate pickleball. Hate them. There are city ordinances against pickleball. And it's a raging success all over the world. Yeah, it's crazy. All over the world, pickleball is huge.

But when you get into both, because I took, you know, Brad Gilbert, the tennis pro, talking about tennis and tennis. So, you were there too. Yes. So I got to play a lot of tennis and pickleball and learn from these greats.

Yeah. And what I also learned... I mean, Brad coached some of the biggest names. Andy Roddick, Andre Agassi. Yeah, yeah. And what I learned from, like, learning to play tennis from him and then also learning to play pickleball

is I get why tennis players are annoyed. Sure. Like, tennis is a really hard entry point in. Yes. It's like learning... To really enjoy the game, you have to become pretty darn good. It's like horse riding.

Like, if you want to gallop on a horse, which is a unthinkable... thinkably fun thing to do. Yeah. You don't get there day three. No. You've got to like spend three days walking on horses. Yeah.

Pickleball, day three, you can be gallivine. Yes. Day four, you're in the emergency room. Yeah, by the way. It's just 70 and you thought you're 20. Even my back was killing me from pickleball. It's all this like dinking. I don't have the body part.

But I did understand the argument. And then what's so great is Mary in real life loves pickleball. She found pickleball before the movie. I know. This is my wife, by the way, who fought for them. She can manifest things. She thinks about something and boom, shows up in the world. It's amazing.

So good. She was a fanatic and she still is. But she also, what made it so nice is, as I said, like, I have to, I try to always be sincere. So it's just, and unfortunately it comes across as negative sometimes. and I wear people out a little bit too much. But I can't, even on this press tour, when they'll be like,

tell us what you love about pickleball. Yeah. I'm like, well, I love the movie. I haven't played pickleball since. You know, I was like, it's a fun game, but like, I don't have a lot of that. I think it's great. I'm happy people enjoy her.

Yeah. Mary gets so mad at me. Yeah, which is perfect. Which is also, and it's so real and so funny. But she truthfully gets, and she thinks, I'm doing it because I'm trying to be so cool. Yeah.

I'm like, I'm not trying to be so cool. She'll go like, just, oh, just say you like it and it's joyful. And I'm like, that would be lying. Like, I don't dislike it. Which is so perfect for the show. I know, but it's great. And on set, if any of a crew member would go like, you're working on that backhand? I'd be like, no, I'm not playing.

She'd be like, oh, Jake has to be so cool for the crew. He loves the game. It's full of joy. Like, she will not deal. anybody talking trash about pickleball. She loves it. And her sales pitch is what's good about pickleball. Where you're like, and that's also the character saying.

So we kind of had that magic thing that you're like, this seat in the car when she's telling Dusty, why she should do it, it's not false. So whenever movies can, parts can become real. That's what I love. I love that stuff. There's the truth of the competition between tennis. in pickleball.

That's real. By the way, pickleball players, because of Mary, and Mary's son Charlie, do you know, Charlie? I know, he's great,

supposedly. He's like a notch or two below going pro. He's winning tournaments in Europe. Incredible. You know, he's a standard. And you guys are hosting

pickleballers at your place? Yes. The whole thing. The whole thing. No, it's insane. But they're excited. The pickleball community is very excited. Well, it honors pickleball

in a really nice way. Yeah. But what it also does which, so what I didn't want to be in is in a movie that I didn't want to be in something that's just like, this is the new world. And so like, and we're just saying it's great. Like there's a few moments that are very shone. And that is like when they're doing pickleball at the end, there's a moment. And when I first learned the game, I would be like, okay, so that's really cool.

And then there's a moment with the two characters, me and Roddick are dinkin. Yeah. And Ed Harris goes, okay, what happens now? And then somebody goes, this is it. They just do this a while until somebody screws up. And he goes like, what? And you're like, there are elements to the game. Oh, tons to make fun.

Where you go like, yeah, I mean, I get it. It's really fun. That's goofy. And then Andy Rodick has a great line in the movie where we're playing and he hits one. And then he, you know, he gets a great point. And he goes, oh, I get it. Now it's like tennis, but easier. Yeah.

Because you can pick up pickleball pretty fast if you play tennis. and figure it out, you can't do the reverse. No. So it is an easier version. 100%. But pickleballers, they are right because there's definitely levels to the game. So people who say like, it's so easy, I've played against a couple of pros. Oh.

It's not easy. No. They are excellent. They can place the ball perfectly. They'll kill you. They hit it so fast. Yeah. So you're like, everything you guys are saying is true and everything they're saying is true.

I want to throw in one more thing because it is a great sports. It's a great this, great that. better enough, but the sweetness of your relationship and marries, I won't go into ruining it and all of that, but it really is sweet and has heart. And that I think is so important. If you're going to make a funny movie, you better have heart. I think it gets missed a lot. Yeah.

That Josh Greenbaum, our director, is a king of. He just brings emotion to things in a way that we had Jake Somansky was originally, attached to direct and Sean, Jake and I had been developing it for a while and that version was way more jokes, more one-liners. And then he fell off to do jury duty too. So then when we brought Josh in, you could almost, which was a really interesting experiment because they're both dear friends of mine and I respect the hell out of both of them, you'll be like how a director changes so much by their actual being. Just naturally who Jake was, Sean and I, even in our pitching would be like, Sean would be funny.

And I'd be like, another joke we could do. And then as soon as Josh came in, Sean would be like, you know, it'd be sweet. And I'd be like, another nice moment we could do. But we still think we're in charge. But you're like, oh, we're just now the movie's changing. What is this other one? You went to Alaska, the other film. What's it called?

The Sun Never Sets. No, Max. Sorry. I'm confusing. It's okay. Sun Never Sets was a movie I did in Alaska with Joe Swamberg, a collaborator, who I've worked with on four movies now. Love him. Excellent. One of my favorite people I've ever worked with. I did that with Dakota Fanon. Just as an actor? Yes. He and I originally started writing it together because we

mostly write and produce them together. But it became so inherently his that I was like, this is just yours. And what I'm doing is actually just producing. And it was post self-reliance seeing the difference. And being like, this really is your story. So I don't need to be at a festival with you and say like, writers, Jake and Joe, because it's you. Yeah. Love the movie. But the TV show is maximum pleasure guaranteed.

And that's coming out May 20th on Apple. You're Mr. Apple. And all of a sudden, I'm in a couple Apple projects. It looked really good. Yeah, it was, you know, David Gordon Green was directing the pilot. And I'd always wanted to work with him. You know, there's like certain directors that you're like, well, that'd be fun. And then the script of it, David Rosen, is so good.

And it's with Tatiana Maslani, who's so talented, Jesse Hodges, that's who those are the two I get to play with. And I was like, man, I... That's cool. It's cool. It's fun. Okay. A family. Yeah.

Aaron? Aaron? Is your wife who's a fine artist? Yes. Not fine good, but paint good. Yeah. A talented fine artist. Yeah.

What is that? What is none of our business, or my business, but what is her day like? Can she go paint every day? Yeah, we have a- Your kids are how old? My kids are 12. So they're in school from eight until three and now with activities. So she can have, she does the work. We've got a studio in the backyard. She's. So she's an artist. She's an artist, yeah. She goes to work every day. She goes to work, yeah. That is so cool. Yeah. Much, much respect for that. Yeah, it's, I feel we've been to. together now since 2003 or something like 2004. And I feel very lucky because I do know, I don't know if you have this, but I know who I am without her.

And then who I am with her, I just assume that's who I am. But I also know, like, if I'm on location within like 30 hours, I'm like, I like the other guy better. Yeah. I was like, I don't know what happened. And it's happening so fast. But like, I'm just getting too up and down. And it was like, she's just, like, rooted.

Yeah. And so I'm like, oh, I've had that so long that I think it's me. And then every once I remember like, oh, right, that's you. I barely knew myself. Yeah. I took a post grad grow up class fast. Yeah. Took about a year.

At what point was this? This was when I was, this was the last year of cheers I started. Okay. And I wanted to stop being a liar. I wanted to be emotionally mature. I wanted to change. Okay. Massively.

And I went for it. I mean, I drove down to Long Beach to my mentor, who was a therapist, but Iranian fellow, who was just absolutely fucking amazing. So I got a whole different kind of therapist. be spiritualality kind of thing. Do you mind if I ask this? So you went to college for basketball or wanted to play and then got into a play and then started acting. Transferred to

Carnegie Mellon when they said, oh, you're serious. Go there. Loved it. Yes. Loved it. Got married at 21 or two. You were a kid. I was a kid. The emotional truth would have been

if I had been a kid. I was the guy who went through life in the back of the pickup facing backwards going, oh, right. Look at that. I never turned around. I went, I'm going there. I want this. Things were just happening.

Things happened, and I had some good angels. And I was like, okay, you know. That's working. Yeah. And then, so what was the journey into, how do you get to that to Cheers? And how quickly did you know Cheers was Cheers? So you're 21, you're married, you're a carnageo, then you start doing the New York stuff. Go to New York.

And you're doing plays. I do a play. I do an off-Broadway play called The Real Inspector Hound and Nathan McGreed. Tom Stoppard playwright, very, very, very funny material. And I was understudy, but went in, because it had been on for years. Everyone wanted, all the main actors wanted time off. So I was on every night. Okay, so you're getting great.

And how were you feeling you were doing it? thrilled you're like I'm kind of no no I was also taking an acting class okay so you were still in your like growing stage while getting great experience I did not until

until shortly around cheers years so you know seven or eight years I didn't care if I was an acting class or being paid to act I did not care I was swept away by the whole art form thing I just wanted to act

that's cool It was the light bulb, but it was the reason, you know, thank God, because I couldn't have done anything else. Terrible student. Anyway, then I came to L.A. I got into a couple of movies and did, you know, every guest star. You were doing everything. Everything commercials. And I would be in a background of a commercial and be thrilled.

Same with me? I just wanted to be on camera. And seeing how it all worked. Yes, yes. I didn't then take that to me. I could become a director somehow. Yeah. But also just being there.

Yeah. Like for me, watching the boom guy, I was like, cool. I drive through studio gates today and I'm like. Yeah. Sad. Well, I turn right on Jimmy Stewart Avenue, cross over Gray Pack Street. You know, it's like, oh, wow. Yeah.

But so then you're doing the grind. Cheer, doing the grind. Then I get called in to do a taxi. Oh, right. Somebody fell out. Somebody fell out. What was that set like? That was a dream show.

It was cheers like to. It was very, except they'd been around for a while. So there were personalities, but they were all brilliant. And I knew Danny Debedo a little bit from a play in New York, and he took me under his wing. Okay. And Danny was so irreverent. He'd take me to lunch to Lucy's. This was at Paramount across the street, you know.

And there'd be Michael Eisner or someone, whoever was the head of me. Hey, fuck you. He was just so irreverent. He was that taxi cat. That is so cool. And then I got a call while I was shooting that or doing that or rehearsing that, the Charles Brothers and Jimmy Burroughs were putting together cheers. And they had an office on the lot.

And I came down and met them twice in that week. second time they said don't take anything without checking with us and I read. Is that meeting? Are you reading things or just talking? Both. So they're like read this out. Yeah, but kind of in the room. Yeah. You know, read. Very casual.

Don't take anything and I went does that mean I have this? And you went, no, no, no, you don't have a you know, and I went out to sit back. There are two doors. One went that way and the other one. I saw this line of actors coming up the stairway. It was like, and I just didn't give up. And I just, part of the audition was you got paired. Towards the end, you got paired.

Of course, the chemistry rates. Yeah. And Shelly and I kept being paired over and over again. And I do think a big reason why I got Cheers was because I was paired with Shella Hall. A hundred percent. Because she was like a, she was a full-blown character out of the game. Oh, she was. So what was that first?

Because I had that with Zoe, too. We got paired and Max and I got paired. in chemistry reads where it was all the difference. When you first read where Shelly, I thought she would be the worst choice for this part. How come? Because I'm an idiot. Seriously, I almost always...

She's not in. No, no, she's not it. And we're so different. Yes. Our styles of acting, our styles of being, we're so different that it was almost sometimes hard for me to be in the same room with her. Because you guys, it just wasn't a natural,

We cared for each other a lot. But when we were on stage, yes. Fucking magic. She'd hit you. I mean, sorry. You know how it's a contact sport. Yes.

Right? You smack the act. And the other actor smacks you back. And if they don't, you're like, oh, fuck. Agreed. You know, so, man, she would knock your block off. So this goes back to the thing I was saying before about the no assholes on set and the niceness in that.

Yeah. I think there's sometimes it's really nice. Sometimes I've been building where I'm like, I only want to be with people I like, really enjoyable. Yeah. Sometimes it's really magic when you have a lot of respect for somebody.

Yeah. But you're like, we see life differently. Yeah. She was not an asshole. No, but she was not a bad, I'm just saying, no, I know,

but she was so different for me. That you just, you don't even know how to, I had that in Minks with Ophelia, who I loved. She's an English actress. We played, she plays like a really like,

type A woman who's, and my character's a pornographer. And everything for me was about like extra stuff. I had like a, cigar and jewelry and wardrobe, Bethmo, and she hate, she would literally at one point, she goes, Jesus, Jake, do you have to have so much stuff? And it was right before, and I loved her.

Like, we would hang out after, but I had this moment right before. I was like, I do. And then I acquired on set. And I could feel in life her being like, just say the words. And I was like, oh, this scene is so heavy. And the eye contact as us was so like, and I'm thinking like, yeah, I'm doing extra. You're right. I'm moving my head a lot and I can't stop. You know, there's a lot cooking.

You were so good in that. I watched the whole thing and then I forgot about it and I watched a clip today. You are so good in it. Thanks, man. That's a great part. It's a great show. Yeah. But she was that.

And no jokes. There were no jokes there. No jokes. But she was that where I'm like, oh, everything is different. Was that true story? I can't remember. No, but it's based off Playgirl. Yeah.

But so then you read with Shelley. Yeah. And then. We got it. You got it. And then that pilot was so. Did you know when you were doing that pilot? Once again, I get to act.

That was all that was in our brain. Yeah, that's cool. In success, like the second or third year. We were loved by critics, so that was clear. We were dead last in the ratings. One week we were dead last. Insane. But we kept going.

And that's, as soon as you have success with money attached to it, then you all of a sudden the word career. Yes, agreed. Well, meetings happen. Yeah. Strategy talks, and you go like, don't have one. And this could be lost. Yes, agreed. And I don't want to lose this. No, I like it.

No. Can I ask a question if it gets too sad, blow it off? But I thought coach was so special in that. He was the heart. He was, if that's what I thought. And I didn't know who Sam was without him because Sam is an alcoholic. Yeah. Coach Need him, even though coach was always so goofy and, you know.

Yeah. saying the wrong things, you were like, Sam's lost without him. And the only reason this bar works is because he brought his coach with him. Yes. So what I do with actors, like, when I act like, I don't know who I'm playing until I play opposite somebody else, I can have my stupid little journals of like,

Jerry, you know, hand from a... It doesn't matter. I'm not talented enough on my little, like, actors notebook to figure out anything until I'm in a scene with a scene partner. And you go like, oh, that's who you are. Oh, so then I'm automatically this. Yeah. And so how does that happen that the show continues with that, like, after his passing?

Like, then Woody Harrelson comes in, creates a whole different thing that turns out to be great. But, like, that loss. Yeah. It was huge. Huge. Yeah. Do you mind telling me of, yeah. We all wondered.

I mean, he came in with a heart disease and didn't tell anybody. And he, bless his heart was not getting enough oxygen to his. his brain to the point towards the end where there wasn't a surface that didn't have his lines written on it everywhere. And he wrote, you know, you know how you come through a stage to say hi to the audience or something? And so the backside of the set is just wood boards, two by fours, you know, it's the opposite of a set. It's just the carpentry. And he wrote his entry lines a lot of the time as he'd come through the door.

So we could check it. And I'll cut to the story part and then go back a little bit. But he, when he passed away, it was just like, oh, wow. And it was the end of the season. And we celebrated and all of that, his life and all that. But it was still pretty raw. And we came back the first episode back. We are at the top of the stairs on the outside of the set.

And you can see through the window. and we come down to say one by one, we're introduced and we say a lot of the audience. And the first person who was about to go through the door went, oh, my God, there was a line that he had written for himself towards the end. And the story was he had just lost his friend. His friend had died. The coach's friend had died. And he wrote, it's almost like he's still with us now. And we came down.

It was like we all burst into tears. And we, for the rest of the show, we would tap that as we entered. Yeah, that's so great. And then some poor carpenter decided to paint the sets and painted it out. I did what? Why has everyone met him? I painted it right like I was told to do. We're both very lucky that we got to be in ensembles that were special and men.

They were special and funny and well done. The other thing I want to say about cheers, because I'd be. be remiss if I didn't is I think it's the best finale I've ever seen yeah it was it was I thought the way I loved the sequence when uh Sam gets mad at everybody yeah and he says the thing that you've been thinking the entire series that you're like I didn't want to think of these people this way but he's right like go home yeah you have a wife man like get out of here like chronic go be with your kids. What are you doing?

I thought I forgot that, to be honest. He kills everybody and gives like such harsh truths. And then he's like, and I'm going too. Yeah. And you kind of feel like, yeah, this is just a stupid old bar. This isn't your home. And then he leaves. And I remember watching it being like, ugh.

And then it fails, you know, as it has to in a TV show. And he comes back and he's trying to get champagne. And everybody gives. them the line of like, I would. And he's like, Normie, how about a free beer? And he's like, yeah, I got to go see beer or whatever in you. Like, all right. And everybody leaves. And then they come back and they go like, like, you think that's going to hurt our feelings? And the reason I love it is, if that doesn't hurt your feelings, nothing will. He eviscerated you. He told you your exact human flaw. And everyone's like, we're fine. Let's have a drink. And then at the end,

the I'm sorry, we're closed. And that kind of sad music starts, you just go like, oh, right. These TV shows don't last forever. They're just things. And it's like you can watch them on reruns and people can find them. But you're like, oh, you just had that perfect. For me, it's why I think TV is my favorite art form of it. And that's the one loss of stream with streaming is that you're not a community that has to watch it when it comes out.

I totally agree. And that there's a lifespan of the show. I remember at the finale, you guys were all like, I watched the whole night of it. You guys were all like drinking beers. Oh, we were hammered. You were. That's what I loved. But I remember it was, for me, it was so huge where I'm like, oh, actors are people.

Yeah. And they're having fun with each other and they're drinking beer. And I would love that life. Yeah. Because you were probably, maybe old, probably 14 at that time. I don't remember, but I was old enough to go like, I can't believe. And I remember, and I remember you were small. smoking cigars.

Yeah. You had like a cool hat on and I was like, wait, that's work? This is right before I went to TED school. My goal has been pre-Ted school. People say, what was it like? What did you do when shoes was over? I said, I had fucked up my life so much that I didn't even realize the chair was over. Is that true?

Basically. We're just living. wild. Funny. Before we go, flip back to Aaron, your artist wife and your two kids

and your success and your work and your fame, that's a juggle sometimes. How do you do? How do you do as far as your family's concerned? I mean, how would they mark you down as the juggler?

I would say there was enough people I had looked up to in this business, like the David Letterman's, the Jeff Bridges, different people I'd heard interviewed who would say things like, if I could do it again,

I would have passed on that movie because I was gone for nine months. Everything is family. Yeah. And growing up without a dad, I know what that feels like. And so it's not a juggle to me. It's the kids are first.

I love my career, but I'm not famous at the level that, like, if I, it's like, if I retired, nothing would happen. You know, like, if you're on a sports team, I don't mean this self-deprecating, but like, if Michael Jordan retires, the NBA is like, hold on. You know, like, if a guy on a team retires who's a good player, they're going to be like, oh, no way. If I left my family, they would be shattered. Yeah. So I love my career. It's my greatest passion. I never wanted to end, but it's not a juggle to me.

If it goes away because of family stuff, then I'll always be sad, and then I'll create something else and I'll get, like, really into something else. But it doesn't feel, I think having kids for me has been, I wanted kids more to my wife. I'm the one that convinced her. I wouldn't be with somebody if I wasn't, didn't think somebody would be like a great partner and a great mom. there was like a certain feeling

I needed it home to do it. I didn't think kids no matter what. I was like, I don't want kids if home is chaotic. And then when I met Aaron, I was like, oh, she's so different. She's so cool. She's so not like me. I was like, if they could have,

if somebody could have that as a mom, that'd be cool. And then, yeah, so I just feel like once they came, everything got better. My TED school was kids. Yeah. I was literally at New York.

girl and I had had a vodka or two. And our camera B operator goes, Guy Paul goes, how pregnant's your wife? And I go, I think she's four and a half months, man. He's like crazy. And then he goes, you know with twins they could be born at any moment. And I go like, right, crazy idea. And he goes,

can you imagine their first smells of their dad if they were born today? Dude. And we made eye contact and I went like, I hear you. And he goes, yeah, it's wild. kids, you never know, it could happen fast. And I didn't drink for, you know, 10, 9, 10 months after that of like, whoa, but my big school was when they were born, I took like a year, first started therapy after they were born,

where I was like, oh, there's a lot cooking in here. You're like, a lot changes. Yeah. I kind of had to make up my version of man. Yes, same. You did too. That was the plays I wrote with my brother. it was all two young men creating things called like men rules.

Because it was like I was raised by women. So I relate way more to women. Me too. I connect. I like being around women. Yeah. But I also don't have that thing that a lot of guys say. I do believe men and women can be friends.

100%. I have a lot of female friends. Here's my thing. My thing is I love hanging out with men. They're very relaxing and fun. But they're beside the point. By the way. Kind of same.

Now, men, what I love about men is when the bits are great, like my brother I'm so close with, I'm like, but a lot of times with men, there's just a lot more energy. Yeah. And when you're around certain females, you're like, oh, it's just very comfortable. It feels like home the way that I know home. Yeah.

But yeah, so. Let me do last image. Okay. I'm not met you, but got to talk to you a little bit more at that rat party for the dink. and rat parties are lovely, wonderful, you know, rambunctious, social celebratory. And then we all go down to our, to cars. We'd all had cars to take us there.

And I remember Mary and I couldn't quite figure out where our car was. And you guys sweetly said, we'll walk with you. We're going that way. But on the walk, which is, you know, maybe a 10-minute walk to find a car, you and Aaron were way more interested in each other and talking as you walked. And I remember looking at you just going, oh, they're in this amazing relationship.

That's cool. You know, and I feel that I was my wife. We're both very lucky. Yes. Well, I agree. And I feel the same about you guys is that we are big processors together. So it'll be really nice to be like, if we haven't sat at the kitchen table and talked in a while, I will feel like something's missing.

It's like her opinion is different than mine, but I like hearing it. Her take on kind of world politics, the life, art, everything. She's all processed. So even when you asked early about her art, these days she's not even really about finishing the products. She doesn't care. She's not overly interested in going into a gallery. She's not interested in selling. she's interested in a life in the arts.

And in our business, I get so caught up in product. Oh, yeah. And I hate myself for it. Let me just throw in this really talking about myself, not you at this point. But there is a train you're pulling. Yes, that's exactly right. But sometimes I get so into the train that I'm pulling that I forget what the art is and the art is first. I know.

I accuse myself all the time of going, Ted, you're not really an artist. You're a business, man. You're a business, and me too. And then there's times because the more you do this, in between action and cut, I can give you what you've told me you want without opening up any part of myself. Yeah. And then if I have a day or scenes where I'm not giving anything, then I go, now I'm just here for the commerce and now it's getting gross. And I have to remind myself to go like, I'm here for whatever that magic is, or else it's just business.

one of the reasons why I like doing this podcast. We haven't even talked about yours, but some other time. Yes. Very funny. By the way, I'd love you on it. I'll come. Yes. It's called, we're here to help, and I'm dying to have.

Mary was on. She busted your chops. So ours is an advice podcast. Not real advice, but people call in. But you try to give them good advice. The premise of it is, and I had this growing up, if you went to a bar, and told loved ones what your problems was. They're not giving you sound advice,

but they're giving you advice to get you out of trouble. And you'd go like, that actually could work. But Mary heard an episode. And just who Mary is to me is we were at some work event. I don't remember what it was. So it had to be with the bank. And she walks up to me and she goes, you know, I listened to your pod.

And she was so annoyed with me. And I was like, okay. And she goes, those are the worst advice. You're bullying. a woman who wants to quilt. And I was like, stop yelling at me. First of all, we're just bullshit. I'm trying my heart.

And she's like, you and that other guy, it was too men. You're being all macho talking about fist fights you had been in, which was embarrassing. I didn't remember that. And then she goes, and I go, please step, come in the show and do this. Yeah, do it. She came. She had notes. She goes like this.

Hold that. Another thing you. I love her, man. She's one of those people who is, she taught me what a sister meant, you know. She really loves women. Yeah, totally. But she really loves men. Yeah, totally.

Her journey into this business is crazy. She told me her story from like that first audition when we were at work one day. And I feel like now every once in a life, it just becomes a podcast where you're like work with somebody and you go like, I guess we'll just turn this into a podcast. So how did you start? There's no mics, but it's a great way to talk to people. I've gotten much better socially. Because of my same. Because of being a podcaster.

I'm willing to go, just be curious about the other person. That'll be fine. By the way, my dad before he died, we had a thing where we, I started seeing him more when I was coming back into Chicago. And podcasts had already started. I had already been listening to some like marines and these long-form ones. And I was doing a Joe Swammerk now I was doing easy. And I went in my dad's when it was always sports-based. It was always we talking cubs or bears.

And I thought like, I can see he's getting sicker. So I was like, I'm just going to do a podcast now that's not recorded. And I would literally go like, so Dan, you're from Chicago. And he'd go, yeah? And I would go. Then you went to the University of Illinois. And you go, so how do you get from that? And then you were in the hippie thing for a while?

Well, yeah, big time. How do you get into business? And he goes, the 80s, baby. And he goes, the 60s and 70s. It was a different thing. The 80s happened. And I go, can you walk me through it? He goes, okay, so there I am.

And I'm like, this is a great podcast episode, but we would spend, you know, an hour here, an hour there. Yeah. And I wish I'd recorded it just selfishly. Yeah. But I'm like, I'm really glad because of a podcast, I did that. Hearing all these things about when he was like a shoe salesman and then clothes and then cards.

You're like, neat stuff, man. What was it like to lose your dad twice? You lost him as a kid. Devastated. The second time. The second time was harder. So when I lost him at two, I still had all the, and then when I was like a teenager, I could deal with all that like young man anger.

Yeah. So I didn't need him because I had a mom. My mom's both. No, thanks. Hated coaches. Didn't know why I always fought with men, but. Yeah. I'm not deep enough to figure that out.

Who cares? Who cares? I'll teach you. I just won't listen to you. And then when I became. came friends with him in my 30s. I was like, and going back to sports, my dad was the one that taught me because I was 26 and broke.

And all the playwright in New York stuff didn't work. I moved back to Chicago, was doing a really weird art project. And he said, you view Hollywood and your acting career like basketball. I think you need to see it like boxing a little bit more. Oh. And he was like, you can't take a whole team with you always. You're a boxer.

So if there's an audition, it's just you. And that transition did make it a lot easier to break into the business. Wow. But so then we became friends. We got really close. We were, you know, a couple times a week talking, always bits. Whenever I would have a scene with like... This is early on in your new relationship?

In the new relationship. But this is during new girl, during acting gigs. He was the one I could call and talk business. I could tell him the numbers that I couldn't tell anybody else. Yeah. Because he'd go like, so your job, you get to kiss Zoe dash, you know and begging facts tell me once more what a little idiot like you

gets paid per week and I'll go I'll tell you the now he'll go Jesus fucking Christ these numbers are disgusting I'd be like disgusted and I go the cast we just did like a Honda commercial yeah and he goes wonderful and what did you do it and I go I stood in the background as Zoe sang and what did they give you and I'd tell me he'll go I guess I'm gonna have a fucking heart attack

and so it was like so fun to have that And then when he died, everything released. And I was like, oh, I'm, I was like, I'm crying a little bit too hard for a man in his 40s. And I was like, oh, I think this is all of it. Yeah. I was like, now I've officially. But what I'm happy about is the scales at the end really evened out. Yeah.

How wonderful. And he really did teach me that P. and I didn't used to think this, but I do fully believe people can change. Yeah. You know, that thing of like, you can't teach an old. Dog new tricks. Yeah, but we're not dogs. Yeah.

We can change. I'm so happy that I didn't have any regrets about either my parents. I didn't have anything left unsaid. Yeah, totally. I was still working within myself on the stuff that I kind of inherited from them. But I was full on, oh, this is on me now. It's not on them. Yes, totally right.

What they did to me, you know, which wasn't horrible, just. but how they were, is, you know, they were two kids doing the best they could. And now's your turn. The big change is when you see your parents as their first and last names. Yes. And for me, it would hit really hard

when I was at my dad's funeral. And you see all the photos. Yeah. And then you see people and you realize, oh, this buddy of his who knew him at 18, he knew him before he had kids. I only met him as him as my dad. So all my judgments, like my dad was, you know, an addict.

He was a partier. I mean, even when he was sober because he went into AA and NA when I was 17, this is not a joke. We would, I'd be staying at his house. And it was the first person I'd ever experience this with. But we'd be like, we're going to watch the Cubs game? And he's like, you want to get some food? And I'd be like, yeah, he's like, I'll order. He'd get two cheeseburgers, two fries.

But he would get like six Diet Cokes. And I'd be like, I've never heard of that. And he's like, there's no way we'll stop at one. And I'm like, you're right, but it's such an addict behavior. You're assuming we're going to have three Diet Coke and we would. If he got ice cream bars and there were 12, if you don't eat him right away, they're gone before he goes to bed. And you're like, that's just who he is. I can't do it in the morning.

Coffee in the morning. One cup. Oh, this really feels good. Two is going to feel. I take it until I am wired and don't particularly feel good. Same. I take it until I disconnect mentally. And then I go like, you did it again, buddy.

But anyhow, so yeah, but it was, I can relate to what you're saying about there was no regrets there. And I think that is so key. That you're like, it ends really nicely. And you know this as being a parent. It's like Damon Wayne's Jr. told me when Aaron was pregnant, we were doing Let's Be Cops together. And he's, I was like, all worried. I was like, well, the other thing I need to think about. And he goes, they're going to hate you for something no matter what.

Just try it your best. Just write it down. So you give it to him. so it'll help them. Oh, Lord. Yeah. Well, I love you, Ted. I've looked up to you for so long, man.

It's a real honor for me. Yeah, me too. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you, Jake Johnson. That was so much fun. Catch him and my wife, Mary, in the dink on Apple TV.

He also hosts the Comedy Advice podcast. We're here to help alongside a comedian, Gareth Reynolds. Please check it out. It is very funny. That's it for this week. Special thanks to Team Coco. If you've enjoyed this episode, send it to a loved one. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts if you're in a good mood. Once again, you can watch our full-length video episodes at YouTube.com slash Team Coco. See you next time, and where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Dancing and Woody Harrelson sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Leow. Our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grail. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Jane Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen,

Mary Steenbergin, and John Osborne.