Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson (sometimes) - James L. Brooks

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Legendary director/producer James L. Brooks and Woody Harrelson talk with Ted Danson about working together on Jim’s first feature film in 15 years, "Ella McCay." Jim shares about the family turmoil that influenced the script, how he got his first break in the news business, casting “Broadcast News,” the time he lit a fire under Ted on “Taxi,” memories of John Cassavetes, and more.  Ella McCay hits theaters on December 12th. Like watching your podcasts? Visit http://youtube.com/teamcoco to see full episodes.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You're looking at somebody who brought coffee to Edward R. Murrow. Yeah. Did you really, though? Yeah, I did. Yeah. Welcome back to where everybody knows your name. On the one hand, we have writer, director, and producer James L. Brooks. Think Mary Tyler Moore, the Simpsons, as good as it gets, terms of endearment.

And on the other hand, we have Woody. My sometimes brother, Woody Harrelson, is here today. He's in Paris, I believe, at the moment, making a film. So he's going to zoom in. Woody and Jim work together on a new movie called Ellen McKay, which comes out December 12th. And we'll get into that much, much more. So here they are, Jim Brooks, and my sweet friend, Woody Harrelson.

Woodrow! Oh, my God. What the fuck? This is crazy. I don't believe this is happening. Oh, Woody. Are you guys together in L.A.? Yes, we are.

Yes, we are. Physically together. I'm so fucking jealous, man. I'm so jealous. How's it going? Well, we're just starting, if you mean, how's this going? But, yeah, life's good. Life's good.

It's strange to be having, you, Jim, right in front of me and looking over your shoulder at you, Woody. But I'm so happy to see you, my friend. It's been a while, and I adore you and love you. I love you too, brother. I miss you. Are you in Austin?

Hey, I feel I'm getting in the way, you know what I'm saying? Give us a second, Jim. No, but I'm in Paris. I mean, I'm hearing this stuff. And Jim was right down the road. What happened to high TED? Oh, man. So, you know, the other day I was hanging with these two actors

who I've worked with many times. And, like, you know, I hadn't really, I realized, like, you know, you sometimes go for years and years and you don't ask, like, fundamental questions, like about someone's parents, you know, or, like, deeper questions. You're in the moment when you're hanging out with them experiencing, like, when you're doing a show or whatever,

but you don't find out these really important details. And so I was thinking to myself, because they give us research. And I'm thinking, what do I need research with Jim Brooks? You know, I've known this guy forever. So many things. I fucking didn't. I got excuses for all of them. Anyway, I was, because, you know, I know, I know, I mean, I think I knew this,

but like you were born in Brooklyn, but you grew up in New Jersey, right? Yes, sir. Am I jumping into this too fast? No, you're doing fine, but did you think that was the lead question? By the way, what a great question. No kidding, man, because it's basic. It's a basic question.

Gives you a foundation, yeah. Born and Brooklyn brought up in New Jersey. I'm going to interrupt. We should just a second. I just want you to tell me how you and Woody got together to work on this movie that you're working on right now, L.M.K., Because that's how you got together.

Let's not go into the heavy stuff. What about Brooklyn and New Jersey? We're going to go back to that. I swear to God, by the way, this is going to do it. I was just going to have to spill. This is our men and daddy's first fight. But this is the reason why Woody and Jim get to be together in the same room. And I'm not in the same room, but on the same podcast.

Because you guys just finished working together, right? and you're still just finishing this movie. Right. So just tell me how you cast him instead of me. No, I don't mean that. But how did you guys get together and tell me just a little bit about it. I called you. Woody, didn't I call you early, really early in the game?

Yeah. That was cool. Yeah. I didn't expect that. You know, we've known each other, Teddy, for as long as I've known you. And anyway, it was a great surprise to get to a chance to do this part, Because, you know, I'd been reading the script for years, you know, hoping Jim eventually would finish it, which took, you know, like 15 years. And I love it.

I love it. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm so excited to see it, Jim. I saw, he can't really talk about it because, as you were just saying to me, you're still in the, not so much of the editing room, but you're composing the music. finishing it up, and you're still in that tunnel. There's still stuff. Yeah, there's still a lot of stuff. Yeah. Where did you shoot?

And how are you feeling? Good. You know, I think I respect it. Oh, even, I should sell a little harder than that. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I respect the movie. Wow, man. You really gear up for your interviews and just like, you know,

We talk about a salesman. What was it like to do? I'm dying to see this movie now. I respect it. I've seen the trailer, and I'm more than respected. I can't wait to see it. It made me both laugh and want to be around all the actors and characters I just watched on it. Great.

The man on the screen is insanely good in it. Oh, good. I mean, yeah, yeah. You can go now, Woody. You got your compliment. Yeah. So what was it like being directed? directed by, are you a

just keep doing it again and again, or do you give notes, or do you, how do you direct Woody Harrelson? I don't know. I mean, I, I mean, we talk, I mean, it's, it seems like just a very natural prop, I mean, it's, it's, I just. No, you know what? You're intensely real, so I'm, we're waiting for this. Please don't change.

Wait, let me make a comeback here. No, seriously. I want to know. Keep going. You know, I think starting the day with a warm greeting, you know, I think it helps them a little bit, you know. You can be down. You can take little dips, so you sort of build them up a little, you know, try to.

Do you rehearse your films always? Did you get to rehearse this? We did. Yeah. You know, I just watched every iteration of the film as you were writing it. And I just felt it just kept getting better and better. better. And then, you know, I like insist that you got to do

a read-through. You're going to learn. Oh, and then you want to talk about the re-through? You want to talk about the grudge? You want to get into that? Yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah. I know. It wasn't the happiest experience. This is, you know, more years than I'll ever

admit to working on this script and put together, you know, with my buddy, Woody. And he didn't read it beforehand. Now, you're I'm sorry. You're a professional actor. I am.

Yeah, and you're... I read it beforehand. I just didn't do a good job with it. Did you read it beforehand? Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so... Yeah, I was playing the security guy,

but I did think I was particularly bad. Had you read it? And I did feel the malice in your eyes as I came up. you it's like what's the kid with the fixed world series going up to

what's that story you know say it ain't so Joe yeah when Joe threw the game when the best ball player say it ain't so Joe

Woody is importantly good in the movie and a totally convincing part and a weird one for me because in some ways based on my own errant father

and oh this always sounds so weird when you talk in this in this form for how somebody just you know knocked it out of the park and created a character and it was just palpable and and for me when it's personal it was yeah yeah thank you jim yeah thank you yeah so is this a good opportunity to ask you about your father yes i give you both permission to go backwards now Yeah, I want to know about your father because it was a very key, important thing in your development as a human, even though, anyway, I want to tell me about your relationship with that. He was errant in every way. He was, there were times then that my mother worked all the time. My mother worked, you know, three nights a week, six days a week. And he was, he was, he was carousing alcoholic. the drinking is not in the film but the the the the serial cheating is part is it is part of it

and um my older sister who helped raise me and um was was vulnerable to him and then i got my first decent job and um and i and i had a uh i asked my father to come to lunch because he was really messing my sister out how old were you at this point Shit, I don't... Roughly. Teenager or older? 20s, 20s, 24, 5, 6, 7. Yeah, this is... I said, I'll pay you money to leave my sister alone.

And, you know, because she would... He would mess with her. And we went to lunch to seal the deal. And it was the last time I saw him. and he got drunk at the lunch and he walked and there was a little stairs that he walked up and I had

gotten a car for him to pick him up in New Jersey taking him to New York. We had lunch and the car was there and he turned around drunk and looked at me and after this lifetime of everything and sang if I had my life to live over I'd live it the same way again

and left, yeah. Kind of a, fuck you, fuck you, I'm who I am and I'm not going to change. Wow. It was like a defiance and a defense against what you considered like to be an errant father. Right?

Like, I mean, it was in that meal that you kind of let him know how you felt. It's the absolute opposite of remorse. Yeah. It's the finger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did he take your money or did that never happen? No, no. He was, he kept his out of the bargain. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And was your mother still alive? I know she passed away when you were like 22 or something. Yeah. Yeah. No, she was not. Yeah. Yeah. So you really were the only thing between. No, it was, it was, yeah. It was, it was, it was. It was, it was. It was. It was. It was. It was.

Yeah. Do you think Diane ever, you know, I mean, did she appreciate the fact that you did that or did she know? I don't remember, but our lives were better. I know all our lives were better, yeah. Other characters in the film, if I, sorry, are they as intensely personal as the character of your dad that Woody played? You know, it's funny how life will deal you who the significant love of your life is. and, you know, and hopefully we all, you know, pick a mate and, and, you know, but, but it doesn't always work like that. And, and in this case, you know, my, my mother and her sister, they were, I think, the, the, the significant loves in each other's lives.

I mean, they just, they were sisters who just adored each other. And that's sort of, there's, there's two women in the picture where that's, where that's, where I think, think it's true of each of them that that um yeah the the the the young star and uh jamie lee curtis right yeah the young star what is her name emma mackie emma mackie who was in sex education yes yes yes yes yes yes yes good yes such a good actor yeah yeah yeah yep yep she's yeah easy on the eye had you worked with albert brooks oh albert i'm no i know i know yeah it was it yeah yeah Yeah, broadcast news. Yeah, he was nominated.

Right. But, I mean, after that, has this been a long stretch of not working with him or have you seen him and been with him? He's, he's, does some terms on the Simpsons. So, yeah. So, yeah, and we're friends, yeah.

You know, I, my only claim to you, which I do make use of, because that's how I am. You owe everything to me? Yes. Are we finally getting to that? Yes, we are because you were, I think you're the reason.

Oh, embarrassing, I had to bring it up. Well, it's Woody. Woody will go to sleep when we start talking about me, so I wanted to, you know. No, I remember it vividly. I won't go to sleep. I'll just go into a very meditative state. You just got to get him ready. There's going to be a little few minutes here.

It's not going to be about you. That's painful. It is. It leads to you, my friend, who I adore. You know, cheers brought us together. Look how he's reassuring you. Yeah. So, anyway, you're doing it.

taxi. It's maybe the fourth year or third or fourth year of taxi. And I think somebody maybe either dropped out or couldn't or something because I got a last minute call to come down and audition slash go to the next room and read for the table, read throw for taxi. And where were you in your career? Where were you in your career right then? In the toilet, Jim. Yeah. I think that's my memory. I've done two or three movies, and then I'd guest starred all over the place. Great, and great, you kill her, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Larry Caveson, yeah, yeah, yeah, no.

I'm a serious actor. No, no. Attention must be paid. I'm very competitive with my friend Woody, so just a little side note. When I hear about this movie you just made, what I do when I realize Woody's about to be in something really good and he'll be really good in it

I refuse to watch it on anything except my cell phone because I can then go, fuck you, Woody Harrell I've made you the right size. Okay, anyway, down I come... That was uncomfortable, but go ahead. Yeah, down I come to and I read and I was

I remember you laughing when I was reading around the table and I was like music to my ears because I had heard your laugh throughout all the episodes of taxi because you have that distinctive laugh and it was like oh that was wonderful but I think Jimmy Burroughs

was either directing that episode of taxi but he was also around the corner with Les and Glenn Charles putting together and starting to cast cheers and because you hired me for taxi and I got to be in proximity of Lesson Glenn I do believe that I owe you a great deal because obviously that led to cheers. I really appreciate it, but you're not quite going far enough with you fought for me

when no one else wanted me, something like that. This is my memory. Good. That you played a gay guy in that issue. Flamboyant, but yes, go ahead. Yes. Well, and we had the dress rehearsal, and the dress did not go particularly. well.

And this is the way I remember it. And it was, and this is so, I, I, I, I just caught myself telling a ridiculously self-serving story. Please do. I'm blushing. I swear to God. And do you remember this? And I just said, I just said one word to you when you came, when you came over and it was

cast to the rail and stuff like that. And it was fly. and and and you just nodded and and you exploded i kind of do i kind of do remember it didn't work brought the house down and yes yes and just yeah but just extraordinary i mean i mean i remember it vividly yeah notes actors to the rail after dress rehearsal and you can tell whether the series is a is a solid series when the actors want to go to the rail you know yes yes yeah Yeah. Oh, my God, that was... The rail being, the producers and everybody and the writers are in the raised audience that accommodates the audience for a lot.

Right. And it's our last chance to get notes before the audience comes. Yeah, yeah. I do believe that to be so. And I do remember it wasn't good and then became good. So thank you. Well, no, it was good and became, I think, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Suck on that, Woody Harrelson. Is this shit over with? I mean, how long do you? What's going on? My God. I fell like an hour.

Well, we went back in time. So let's go even further. So what made you think early on that you could write funny stuff and then turn it into people? I mean, how did you go from the kid? alone in the apartment to somebody actually submitting funny material, hoping it would work? It's so weird that you have to catch breaks, you know, that luck is as big a part of it. Like, you know, that I, I, the first decent job I got, I was an usher for CBS. And when you were an usher, you were vacation replacement, if ever, if higher level, slightly

higher level jobs but are still junior jobs opened up and and one was as a desk assistant copy boy for CBS News when CBS News was you know Jesus Christ the temple of everything and and and I filled in as a vacation replacement and the guy didn't come back to the job and I swear if he had come back to the job I I can't imagine I can't imagine I actively imagine now desolate my life life could have been. And you would have wiped out me and Woody at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. So he didn't. So he didn't come back and you had to step up and write something. And I had, yes, and I had my stepping stone. Yeah. Which only went to guys who with college graduates, usually good colleges. And I had I had screwed up college and, you know, after a year just, you know, the. And how does that connect to writing, that job?

Well, you were writing copy, I mean... Well, no, I was a copy. I was bringing coffee to... You're looking at somebody who brought coffee to Edward R. Morrow. Yeah. Did you really, though? Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah.

That is very cool. What was he like? This is the guy who was the pillar of journalism and pillar of broadcast journalism when it was a temple that you cannot imagine today. When it was church, when it was... You trusted it. It took care of you.

it served you in a way that you know we'll never see again but there was that moment and he was the man of that moment and there's a woman who wrote a 1200 word book 1200 page book about about edward R. Murrow and and and and they asked her what was the biggest surprise that you had in the 10 years of research you did and is that he deserved the legend I mean he really was as that guy, that god of a man. Who broadcasts from London while bombs were dropping. And they called them Murrow's Boys, all the people who reported, and who brought down McCarthy single-handedly when we were having, you know,

political troubles, not wildly different from today. You don't really see any of those guys step out of the party line, so to speak, anymore. Broadcasters aren't thinking for themselves. They're not saying, oh, I should do this. I should say that. They're like, oh, here's you're, here's what you're supposed to say. And nobody trusts him anymore. I mean, they're not talking to people who trust, you know, there's no

come on, it's all like, it's all, it's siloed. Yeah. I mean, this is, these are tough times. Except in my movie, which so clearly that informed, well, maybe not clearly, um, broadcast news.

When you came to writing that. Yeah. Yeah. It was soulful, yeah, because that broadcast news is written after the first steel ball fell against the temple of journalism, you know, and there were these some massive layoffs. And I was, and I still had friends there. I'm a news junkie. I remain a news junkie. And I was, you know, and I was around, you know, wonderful people who were losing their jobs.

What was the steel ball? When they started, when they started cutbacks and, you know. Okay. Yeah, yeah. And when the, when the, when the, when the, when the, when the, when the, when the, when the, when the, when you were doing the Mary Tyler Moore show, that was also inspired by, you know, the newsroom was kind of a. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still very much. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and based on an editor who, John Merriman, and. And he was like, he was the model for Lou Grant. And he was, he was irascible, he was irascible, but he'd be friends with the copy boys like me, but irascible, hard driving, you know, great, edited Murrow's copy. I mean, he was, you know, he was, he was a real guy. And he was a great guy. And but, and he, and we were friends too. And we, we were several levels, lots of levels.

below him. And there was one night in a snowstorm, we were getting, you know, and I had to go cross all across from where CBS was and walk across town to get to the bus terminal taking him back to Jersey. And

he, and he, and he, and he, it was a snowstorm. And he said, and he was getting to the cab and he said, you want to lift. And I said, isn't that of your way? And he said, yeah. He called door closed. So he was, he was the bad, and Lou Grant came out of it, yeah. Oh, that's great.

Yeah. Yeah. So on this research, you're talking about, like, the best schooling you ever had was having a show that's really going, and people are watching it. And then you just, and you have that autonomy and the writers. Well, to me, the best job in the business is to be. on a series that's working. Yes, without doubt. And for the writer, it must be the best because you don't get notes anymore. Well, you get community. You get, you get, you know, and by the way,

Woody makes community wherever he goes, which is. Woody, that's true. And I swear to God, part of the reason why I'm doing, part of the reason why I'm doing a podcast is because I don't do what Woody does. I'm shy and I go home. But this, I've, you know, however many people I've gotten to talk to like this, like I am with you, is what Woody does every day of his life. You're absolutely right. You do, you do, I hate you. It is the best thing. I mean, cheers for us. You know, for me, it was like basketball. I loved basketball. I wanted to play basketball. And that whole team effort, that it's the team. It's not you individually is something that I learned. And And I recognize that when I got to be part of an ensemble like Cheers,

it was like, oh, this feels like home. And on that lot, as other things are going. And, you know, I always talk about those days as we had everything because there was a television ghetto that those of us on series were on one side of the lot. Then there was a movie side of the lot. Whoa. And at that time, you couldn't cross over. I'm trying to remember who.

I think Ron Howard was the first crossover, the first guy over the fans from television to movies. but so we had great jobs working with people we enjoyed and we got to be the underdogs we're all making good money because the movie guys were looking down on us so we even had underdog going for it yeah and you had I remember that sometimes people would finish a show they would have shot their show one you know I don't know what it was but they were friends with writers on our show and they were having a problem so they'd go over and work on the problem together. It was a real sense of writer community.

Yeah, and Glenn and Les, of course, we're on taxi and they were, you know, and they were, you know, yeah. And taxi had a good party every Friday night, which everybody came to, you know, we would shoot before an audience on Friday night. And it would be. I don't heard those, Mr. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those were in those days. Oh, down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had good parties.

They were little, there was, they were smoke-filled rooms, but. Yeah, that doesn't hurt. That's the earth day. Weren't you impressed? That made you the tame group at the time. Yeah, yeah, that's true. It was interesting because, you know, because you had on the Mary Dala Moore show,

you had the Charles brothers, right? Yep. And Jimmy came in to. And out of that was born taxi. And, you know, when. Yeah, Jimmy, you know. broke in on the terrible way to put it.

Yeah, yeah. Jimmy was observed on the Marital Moor show and then directed on the Marital Moor show. Yeah, yeah. And I think was it then or was it doing Taxi that Leson and Glenn and Jimmy decided to team up and be a threesome?

I think during taxi, I think so. I think so. So you're doing television, you're doing writers' rooms, and what was your first, forgive me, it was in terms of endearment? there was a film before Terms where you wrote it and directed it. What was that?

Do you remember? I think that was my first writing and directing. I produced and wrote a movie that was on television. Starting over. Oh, starting over. Wait a minute. Yes. With Canvarez, right.

You wrote that. Yeah, yeah. Alan Pekula directed it. Yeah. Yeah. So Terms was your first writing, directing? Yes, yes. all right here's one of my questions coming from writers rooms

do you ever miss a writer's room when you're writing a film or are you okay to be all by yourself locked in a room writing it's a totally different experience i you know i'm i'm still active on the simpsons so i mean i i i mean i i love you know so i mean it's it's a blessing to still have you know that community going all the time um and and and they're just They're just different experiences. Well, one's lonelier and more personal. And, you know, and I always think there's this,

there's this, what was it, Sunday in the Park with George, that musical about the artist. And there's a wonderful song in there where, you know, the famous art was Sarat, I think, was a, you know, famous French artists, and they have a song where he goes through everything, He says, look, I made a hat, because he painted a hat on somebody, that after all the gasrying and everything, look, I made a hat. And I think of that as what we all do, you know, look, look, you know.

Yeah. What I just said might have been a little heavier than you guys took. No, no, no, no. What made me think is Woody has a connection to you in that he does write plays. He does write. He does write. He does write music. You know, he does produce.

He has directed. I'm your, probably your dream actor. All I want to do is act only. And that's all I have, that's all I'm equipped to whatever degree I'm equipped to do. So I am kind of when I, there's a pause, I'm trying to go, what would that be like to create, to write from an empty blank page? You know, where does one start? I guess one starts in some cases thinking about your father. These days, especially these movie days, because I think, you know, I think television is so rich, everything, you know, just, just this, I, you know, I hate the word content.

I think there's some danger in calling what we do, you know, content providers. It's so bizarre. Sounds like produce. Yeah, no, it's, to be able to have an idea and end up doing a movie these days with, from that idea, that you wanted and that you saw all the way through is is is getting tougher and and and so you just are such an asshole if you don't really appreciate the opportunity big time these days i mean i think and i think that's you know i just think jesus i really glad i got this you know that's that's that's that's that's that's new do you still i mean because you made so many beloved

brilliant award-winning, you know, lots of box office, still get to ride on that? Or do you have to prove yourself each time and struggle to get money or whatever? There was a very wonderful, grizzled producer I knew. And I remember when, you know, when I did terms of endearment, and my question to him was because we got down with each other. And I said, how many more, how many more will they? let me make because of this. And he said, maybe two. Yeah.

Wow. Which is, yeah. What was your next one? Broadcast news or no? I think, I don't know. I had a flop in there someplace, but I think broadcast news might have been, I think it said my second one.

Yeah, that was next. Yeah. Love that movie. Remember, you showed it to us in Rhode Island before we started shooting. Is that right? God, it was great. Like, I hadn't seen it in a while, and to see it on the big screen like that instead of, you know, like your television.

Yeah. It was, God, it was great, man. That movie is phenomenal. But what was that like to work on? What makes it think of Holly Hunter, for example? I mean, she was barely known. She had done a Cohn Brothers picture, so I don't even think it was out yet. Racing, Arizona.

And I was about to pick someone where we wouldn't be talking about that movie today because that was what I was down to. And then Julia Taylor, who was legendary casting director in New York and who I never stopped thanking because this is me having spent six months looking for the girl, maybe more than six months, and seeing everybody and seeing everybody and being such a pain in the ass. and there was still a moment where instead of saying

oh shit he's on the phone again which is a miracle that she had that kind of spirit instead of saying that she said tell me again what you're looking for and she said there's a girl here who's about to leave town

I think you can still see her and it was Holly Hunter and it was and as I say the other thing would have changed my life I mean that's it I mean isn't that the thing that you can't get used to

because the one I was about to cast, we won't be talking today. Yeah. Did she, so did she audition for you? Or you just met her? She auditioned. She auditioned. Yeah, she auditioned.

And you were like, damn. Oh, boom. Yeah. This girl's pretty good. No, no. It was, thank God. It was, it was all to your knees, yeah. Did you always have Bill Hurd in mind?

Yes. Actually, I postponed the movie six months in order to get them. And, yeah. Good choice. And it was because I thought the one thing you can't act is charisma. You know, and the whole thing was about a guy who had that thing, you know, had that thing since he was a little boy, had that thing. And you can't act that.

I mean, I wish we were drinking tonight because I think it could be good night if I just started talking to you guys about Bill Hurd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm ready to get it going. It's nighttime over here, guys. Let's go to the woods Yeah There you go

Let's go to the woods You had But you had that with For Emma's part Like you really worked a long time To find that character It was just Long time

I mean this is The heroine of this movie Goes from 16 to 34 I mean she has real scenes At 16 Real scenes with this guy And And

And And it's sort of like an, and it's, it's, you know, everybody's sort of does this kind of comedy that, you know, that wants to try and tell the truth and stuff like that if you possibly can. And, and, you know, those 50s movies, you know, the, you know, the Hepburn, you know, these, this is the, you know, this is the, this is the museum. This is the great museum. Both Hepburns, Audrey Hepburn, Catherine Hepburn. And screwball is something. And so this whole, you know, maybe it was the wrong notion or something. But what I was chasing was, can you try and be a little screwball comedy?

You know, comedy it has to be. But the little screwball and still try and tell the truth about something. So that was the thought. But you do that so well. Wow. Yeah, you do that well. But there's a lot of truth in this movie. And I think everybody can just relate to having to deal with their parents,

you know, in this case, the father and everything she's dealing with with that. And then trying to deal with her husband, he's a bit of a ne'er-do-well, Jack Loudon. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a great actor. Who does Albert Brooks play in this? Albert Brooks plays the ex-governor of the state, yeah, about to become a cabinet officer. I cannot wait to say this. That's great.

But also, Albert Brooks, that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in broadcast news where he starts sweating. And I always wondered, I never did ask you about this, but it seems like you almost said to yourself, There's no mouth that's too much. Just go ahead and flood the set. And it just made it so fucking funny. It's incredible. It was so great. Because Alba called me one night,

turn on CNN immediately. You know, and it was a guy sweating. After the film. No, before the film. That's how we got the idea. Oh, wow. I mean, it's a catchphrase.

I mean, you know, I was sweating. I mean, broadcast news sweating. Yeah. It must be fun to work with him again. Yeah. Where'd you shoot, Rhode Island, is that you said? Providence? I mean, why?

Because of the tax break. Aha. And this movie is anywhere USA, basically, so that fit that. I can't wait to see it. Tell me about the music, because you said you're still working on the music. Is that a big part? Do you take great joy in having that part? of your process in the room with the composer?

I take great joy in being friends with Hans Zimmer. I mean, yeah, I mean, he's, I mean, there's a phrase in a class by himself. I mean, this is just so literally true about Hans because the conversation is different than you have with anybody else. The way he gets into the movie is different. The way he, the way he establishes goals for the music is different than anybody else. and I think it adds up to a class by himself. Forgive my ignorance. Do you work with him a lot so it's just

assumed when you start the movie that you guys are talking before you even start shooting? We've been friends a long time, yeah. Do you say we need music here or he says this would be a good place to have music and I was thinking something like this or how does it develop with them? The conversation is different than with any other composer

because the conversation is more like you have with a co-writer. I mean, you know, where he thinks he has to be, what he thinks he has to accomplish. How, you know, it's a different, I'm telling you, it's a different world. The conversation is different. The goals are, the goals are unique. You know, what he sees, he's, he's Hans, that's what I say.

Every once in a while he does something brilliant. And there's a room full of people. I say, Hans Zimmer, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. He's incredible. Are you setting, not guard rails, but are you saying, you know, it needs to have a 50s or 40s, whatever, contemporary? Are you setting tone or is he looking at the tone of what you've shot and come up with it himself?

He's a genius at work, yeah. And I'm sure he has the, obviously, he's Hans Zimmer, but that some movies get overscored and it's like kind of pushes you away. I mean, it is such a delicate thing. With broadcast news, there was a series of things where I was left holding the bag with the picture needing to be finished.

And I went around begging music from like three different composers and putting it together feverishly at the last minute. And that was such a scary time that it's made it. forever. I don't want to go through that again. Yeah.

Jim, do you think that this movie will be ready for the December 12th date that it's supposed to come out in the theaters? Yes, sir. Will it be ready? Yes, it'll be ready. I think I'm like, I think I'm a week away from being a free man.

Really? Yeah, yeah. I think so. Okay. I know you're a tinker. You like to get in there tinker. I have like two days of looping to go through. Yeah, you're right.

I'm a little, yeah. So I'm 78. I don't know how old you. I'm 78 in a few months. I don't know how old you are, but numbers. But you're saying that there's still a chance that I could be in one of your movies. Don't make this about me. Just the way you sold yourself right now, man.

Just got me. Yeah. Just that. Just that. That's just that... The wit, but a little pitiable, you know. It petered out at the end. You can write a wimp.

You've written wimps before. You're great, man. I'd love to work with you. There it is. That's our quote for the show in front of Woody. I had something about that felt strange. Anyway, it's good. There's that laugh that just made me love taxi.

even more. Jimmy Burroughs has a laugh. Jimmy used to, he would laugh during rehearsal, but at first it was like, oh, we're making Jimmy laugh. Then we kind of all realized, no,

he's marking the moment to let us know that an audience could be laughing here, so be aware that you may need to vamp for a second. It was like he was...

Oh, you don't think it was genuine laughter? Well, sometimes, sometimes. But it was all, Also, because it was, I thought it was a little bit more than necessary at times, but it was like he was educating the cast in that moment. He was such an important part of Cheers for me that when he didn't direct, it was like literally I had no idea how to play Sam Malone, none. It was like I was always performing to some degree for Jimmy. Wow.

Yeah. Well, I'll let Andy Ackerman know that, right? right away. Oh, yeah. He hasn't hired me recently, so who cares? Did you ever work with Andy as an editor or no? No. He didn't do taxi.

No. How about editor? Do you still work with the same editor on your films? Or does that change? I did for a long time, and then we lost him. But I've done the last couple with the same editor. Yeah. You spend six months in a room with somebody.

It's like a cellmate, yeah. Have you ever miscast the part? heart. Don't name names unless it's Woody. That would make you. You'd get a lot of satisfaction out of that. There was I think it was terms of German. I think it was terms of

German. And I was and I had cast somebody as it was as the part that John Lithgow ultimately played where he he might have won the Academy Award. He was nominated i know and um and i was in my trailer and and um and the actor who i had hired for the part was passing my window and and and and he was saying and we had filmed and he had not been so

hot and he said once they got you on film you got him by the balls and and and and and oh literally i heard i heard that in the trailer as he passed my window he didn't know i was hearing it and you know what my the the term blood goes cold literally happened to me it was like the my and and and and then we replaced him and he had been bit weak but i might have struggled with him and stuff like that and then i heard that and then and then i was able to get john let's go and but i'm telling you man i mean it the theme is catch a break or don't. Yeah.

You said something to the effect about how, because you've had this unreal success in television as well as movies. Like, it's, you can't even, it's hard to even calibrate how, and it's not obviously just luck, but how lucky you've been, how fortunate you've been, you know. And you said something about like this thing, of having an awareness about your career and being told, you know,

how your career's, you know, like there's something about that awareness is very dangerous and destructive. Self-consciousness, yeah. Did you ever feel like you got into a self-conscious place that it made it hard to write? Wouldn't you guys agree, it's the enemy? I mean, self-consciousness is the enemy.

It is. You know, that thing, get over yourself is the best advice that ever became a popular phrase. I mean, you know, you can't. You just, yeah, especially since what we do is a team sport, you know, so it gets ridiculous, yeah. And I think every, all creativity has to, the risk is you want to repeat the success,

but that you need to start at zero each time. You need to start at not knowing as opposed to, you know, Yeah, there used to be this notion, you know, do one for them meeting with the studio wants and what's working that day and what's readily accepted and what's the log line is good and one for yourself. I don't see where in your career you were doing the one for them. Yeah, I've been spoiled in a really good way. I think, you know, I think there's a, you know, I think I got lucky, but maybe it started sounding a good job to me.

One for them. Hey, you know, it's a little easier. It's a little easier. Hey, boss, hey boss. Glad you liked it. Glad you liked it. Just let me know. Just let me know.

It's sounding so good to me. I want to do them all for them. What a revelation. Thank God I came today, man. It's a good title for your next movie. I'm a little emotional. Who do you, do you, do you still have heroes, people you look up to, people you, you know, kind of, or did you starting out? Did anyone mentor you when it came to a movie?

But, but I, I sure had people I worship, like I, you know, like Patty Chayefsky and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I got to hang around with Cassettetties, who, I mean, I mean, you guys, who, I mean, I mean, I mean, you got, guys, you would have gone nuts to work with John Casabettys. And Carol King got me with Casabettys so that I got to hang around while he, you know, he had already done his movies, but he and Elaine May were working with actors together on a stage at Columbia to improvise a script for a movie they do. And I got to just sit there. Wow. And, and, and I'm telling you, this guy, the only guy in history who voluntarily gave up male movie star, he chose not to do that job, which he could have had, you know, and the passion and the love and the group thing, and, you know, he's sort of, sort of the father of independent film in there. And it was, it was, and the relationship of actors to

each other, supporting each other. It was just, and I'm, I'm like a kid. and I'm taking this in, and I'm seeing heaven, you know? Wow. Yeah. Was Jenna Rowland's part of that? She was not, I mean, he was married to her and, you know, and she was, and he had these dinners. He was very inclusive. There was always dinners and stuff like that, and it was all, I'll tell you, I'll tell you, I'll tell you my favorite story, see what you guys think.

And so here, Elaine May and John Cassavetti's, okay, okay, okay. And working on this movie And Elaine had to go east And it's getting to be Christmas And I was I was auditing And Cassavetes was so generous He invited me to the

To the Christmas lunch They did at the Beverly Hills Hotel You know I'm the jerk guy auditing And And here's the cast And him And one of the guys

guys says they've been rehearsing for a while now. And he said, John, I have to, I have to go to New York. I got a job. You know, they weren't being paid at all. And he said, I got a job. And Casabetti didn't only say you can't take that job. You know, because this is the temple of truth. He said, you better not let Elaine hear you say that. He didn't even say no. That was it. You can't. And what happened? Did the guy stay? He stayed. He stayed. And it was weird. John, I've got to make a living. You better not. But that was church. You know, that's what made it church. I had an acting teacher like that. You had to commit to two years. It was the Meisner technique. And you had to commit. And it seemed unreasonable.

But there's method to that madness. It's like, no. commit I get it method to the madness oh thank you it took Jim a minute to catch on

but God bless you it actually did so John Casavettis is a mentor that's amazing I mean you guys would have gone nuts I mean it was

I mean he was you know just so the attitude towards the work it's just was yeah wasn't Ben Gazzar a part and yeah yeah Tony

and Tony Francieschi, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then they all, they met in a movie, and they all became, like, friends for, like, more than... Was it husbands? It was, no, no. Well, they did do husbands. That was Casabetti's film. Yes, and just, I'd just like to point out, Time magazine called it in its review, the greatest film ever made. I mean, it was some, some, and it's just, and I was around.

I was around, you know, it's just all, you know, and, and, is this pre-taxie, pre? I think it was pre-birth. I don't recall, just a seminal lightning bolt, and suddenly I was in a different world. So it was like, but it was just so beautiful because I think it was, maybe it was Franciuska having a hard, hard time or, you know, or, you know, or. Peter Fault. Was Peter Falk. Peter Falk was at the bottom of staircase, and it was, I think, Frasios, maybe coming down the stairs, and it was a hard time with that moment.

And this is the basic. This is the pearl. And one after having a hard time, and he was having a hard time, and Peter Falk was down there. He said, hey, look at me, man. I'll give you something. I asked Jack Nicholson, what do you do if you're in a scene with somebody who's a bad after and he said whatever the other person is doing

is perfect. Yeah. Really? I know Woody, you haven't them replaced. Yeah. But it is, it is, isn't that? Come on. I mean, it's really an attitude, isn't it?

It's a great attitude. I'm not sure that's 100% true, but there's sometimes someone's just so bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm out of here. Check, please. Yeah. In terms of if you're a working actor, in terms of you have to, you're there and you have to do it, you know. You have no choice. Yeah. Yeah, or else your life, the choice is your life is rushing

in front of your eyes. Yeah. Well, that kind of flies in the face of that thing, Brando said, just because they say action, doesn't mean I have to do anything. I just had a friend to produce one of the last things he did and he was just supposed to say two words. He's lying in bed and he's supposed to say, I'm not sure, or something like that. And he kept waiting and they kept waiting and finally said, let's do this tomorrow.

But you only have to say two words. we need to wrap the picture. I'm not feeling it and left. So there's that. There's that, Marlon, you know. Yeah, yeah. I wrapped a little problem.

A little too whimsical. A little too whimsical. Thank you so, so, so much for coming in and talking. Really appreciate it. It's really nice to see you again. I'm just missing you. We have three more guests coming up. No, I'm kidding.

Sorry, it felt, are you... Yeah, yeah, hey, shit. I just cut off Jim Brooks and Woody Harrison. No, no, no, no. There's something to be said for Clueless Interruptors, yeah. You know, he needs to be like, I want to get home. I've been all the way in East L.A. this whole time, and I've got to get back. Yeah, Jim, don't even think you're going to go get a coffee with Teddy.

He goes straight home. He doesn't pass go. He doesn't collect 200. I'm going to straight on. Usually I say, don't wait for me. I saw him secretly putting on his shoes. I didn't. No, you usually say,

I'll say, Teddy, I'll meet you over in gratitude, right? I mean, it's, what, five minutes from there? He's like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you go ahead. I'll be right there, done you shop. Well, bravo, man. I don't know about bravo, but that means you've got a happy home.

I do. Yeah, I love you, Jim. I really, I miss you, buddy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and we almost at Paris. Yeah, you too, Woody. You are missed and adored, and thank you for doing this. This is great. Between your show.

Can you do me a favor, Jim, and just tell me, just look at me and tell me to fly. Isn't that the note you gave me? Fly. God. I think the way I said it at the time, I think, was fly! Please be better. Don't do anything. You should have gave me that note when we did the reading a long time ago, Jim, I should have heard the fly note.

This will be our code word now, yeah, yeah. Woodrow, travel safely. Jim, I've had some of the greatest conversations, greatest dinners, greatest bottles of wine with you, just extraordinary deep part that we have and the humor that you, that is so original. I just, anyway, I love you and I miss you, and I hope I get to see it soon, buddy.

Yeah, yeah, same here. Special thank you to Jim Brooks for being here and for my friend Woody for zooming in. Let's do it again soon. That's all for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, send it to someone you love. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app

and maybe give us a great rating and a review on Apple Podcasts if you're in the mood. If you like watching your podcast, all our full-length episodes are on YouTube, visit YouTube.com slash team cocoa. See you next time, where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leow,

Our executive producers are Adam Sacks, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer, engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grawl, talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Battista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenbergen, and John Osborne.